| Mod | Description | Status |
| Automated Commands | Automated Commands retreat commands override the individual ship retreat behavior in Realistic Combat | Works |
| Quality Captains | Realistic Combat overrides Quality Captains skills | Works, but I must still replace a few vanilla skills. |
| Detailed Combat Results | Realistic Combat reports damage numbers to Detailed Combat Results | Works |
| Starship Legends | Realistic Combat reports damage numbers to Starship Legends | Works |
| Mod | Description | Status |
| Console Commands | God mode and similar commands do not work | Awaiting the return of Console Commands author LazyWizard to the forum. |
| Fleet Action History | Fleet action history does not work if Realistic Combat Damage Model is enabled | Awaiting Fleet Action History mod author briansd9's reply to my request to fix the incompatibility together. |
| Scy, etc. | Realistic Combat applies damage directly, ignoring the vanilla damage modification system, which vanilla and some mods use. | Send Realistic Combat damage through the modification system before applying it. |
| Arma Armatura | Invincible stations and ships not being destroyed when at zero hull. | Investigating and will report to mod author if need be. |
| GraphicsLib | Running the included radar alongside GraphicsLib on an AMD GPU blackens the screen. | Disable the included radar by changing the associated field from true to false in Toggles.json |
| Mod | Description | Status |
| VIC, etc. | The armor of angled ships naturally protects them much better than that of boxy ships does. | Willing collaborate with angled ship pack authors to agree on autopatching of ship armor thickness, perhaps in exchange for a buff. |
| UAF | Semibreves can turn arc around shields because of the torpedo maneuverability enhancements | May consider a non-linear or damage-adjusted torpedo maneuverability enhancement formula. |
| Skill | Affected Features |
| Point Defense | +50% damage to fighters, +50% damage to missiles |
| Target Analysis | +10% damage to destroyers, +15% damage to cruisers, +20% damage to capital ships, +100% damage to weapons and engines |
| Ballistic Mastery | +10% Ballistic Weapon Damage, +10% Ballistic Weapon Range, +33% ballistic projectile speed |
| Fighter Uplink | +20% top speed (maximum: 20%), +50% target leading accuracy (maximum: 50%), Maximum at 8 or less fighter bays Effect increased by 1.5x for ships with offcers, including flagship |
| Gunnery Implants | +100% target leading accuracy for autofiring weapons, +15% ballistic and energy weapon range, 25% weapon recoil |
| Polarized Armor | Maximum damage reduction by armor increased from 85% to 90%, Up to +50% armor for damage reduction calculation only, based on current hard flux level, EMP damage taken reduced by up to 50%, based on current hard flux level |
If the armor, penetration and damage mechanics work as advertised in the spoiler then this is a revolutionary advancement for Starsector.
Just how much work went into this?
although i've no experience in modding whatsoever, I'm guessing this mod involves universally changing all ship-entities' movement/manueverability, which begs the question; is it supposed to turn stations into giant fidget spinners.?
I've also found that most built-in ship weapons have their range based on their descriptions seemingly unaffected by the range-increase provided by your mod, could it be a visual error? or it actually denies said built-in weapons their 2k+ range increase?
I'm also looking to see if someone would take the time to check if it affects the mass of ship-entities and playtest the mod by shooting the Akita Missile from the SEEKER Mod straight into lone hostile stations (and probably check if the station themselves are capable of retreating given enough impact velocity from the Akitas.)
great mod btw, still could use some tweaking, as for balancing, that's up to you and the others to discuss :D
keep up the good work~
so, important question! does this change the core ruleset, maiking it naturaly compadable wiht mods OR would mods have to be added into the new rules???
please and thankyou, this looks amazing
ps. been playing "nebulos" so thins makes me happy
this is definitely gonna be a something
Sir, could you allow me to translate this mod into Chinese and update it to the Chinese Starsector Forum(https://fossic.org)?
Interesting. Does this kinda negate player controlled ships? I feel like hitting targets that far away is going to be interesting. Someone link a video if you happen to try it out and record it!
Okay so this mod basically turns every station fight into the docking scene from Interstellar
So basically this is the best mod ever created by man
Okay so this mod basically turns every station fight into the docking scene from Interstellar
So basically this is the best mod ever created by man
Hello, did I understand correctly that orbital stations rotate at high speed too?
I just noticed that it rotates very very fast and when shooting at it, my head starts spinning too :D
Okay so this mod basically turns every station fight into the docking scene from Interstellar
So basically this is the best mod ever created by man
Ok, I have some bad news. I had no idea what you meant when you referred to the docking scene and figured you liked it. It turns out you meant this:Hello, did I understand correctly that orbital stations rotate at high speed too?
I just noticed that it rotates very very fast and when shooting at it, my head starts spinning too :D
And that was an unintended change. Stations should be back to their usual slow rotation.
Testing this mod, so far I'm concerned about amount of flickering long range beams
I made an account to comment on this mod, absolutely stoked about it.
I love how missiles feel, super snappy in a lot of cases and really threatening, much unlike a lot of the vanilla missile systems which move too slowly and can be outrun in some cases (makes no sense for missiles in space to move slower than a much, much more massive target).
I also love the range dynamics and armor mechanics, although I don't really get to feel how much of an impact the armor is making because there isn't an easy visual indication of a ricochet or a non-penetrating shot. It would be nice if it had a different color impact on penetration, or if glancing blows really obviously zinged off to the sides to show that no damage was done (maybe it already does something along these lines and I am just blind).
A few points of contention: the pilots seem to have no idea how to fly. They constantly accelerate too much and overshoot their target location, resulting in a panicked 180 degree turn and full thrust in the opposite direction, which means that half my fights start off with the rear end of my fleet facing the opponent as they try to avoid collision (not ideal). If this is ameliorated by tactics please advise, otherwise maybe the newtonian flight needs to be adjusted because AI gonna AI.
Also, like other have mentioned the orbital stations are spinning/rotating very quickly which does a few things. Firstly, it instantly destroys frigates and most destroyers if they get clipped by the spinning arms, which they often do because they can't fly very well as stated above. Even paragons were getting slapped by the orbital station, which was obviously hilarious but also a little disappointing, since the ship with over 12000 range energy weapons should not be ramming orbital stations. The second problem is that the station's guns have a really hard time hitting their targets when they are spinning around this quickly, since their tracking speed is insufficient in most cases to hold a firing solution. The third problem is that this makes the station extremely difficult to damage, since it is rotating fresh shields into the firing line really quickly, distributing the incoming flux over many capacitors. In short, the orbital station is nigh unkillable.
I am still experimenting, of course. These were just my impressions after about 4 hours with the mod.
well this seems intriguing but 'compatible out-of-the-box with all mods' is blatantly untrue from what i've tested
i should clarify- it doesn't crash and does apply its changes to every mod, which is where i have a problem with this being "compatible". i don't really think you can call it compatible with all other mods when it forces blanket changes to every other mod with zero preservation of those mods original designs or intentions.
the scy zone scorcher now has a refire delay of 0.07, for example
So far, the mod renders PD solutions utterly useless, at least in their intended role: the extended range causes all PD to engage anything within range, causing their magazines to deplete, and seems to have trouble tracking the drastically accelerated missiles. The targeting AI also seems to not account for the increased projectile velocity, causing turrets to fire their munitions into the ether. Also, the speed of the missiles seem to break hit registration: Hammer torpedoes fly so fast that they go right through their targets, and have the somewhat hilarious side-effect of spinning ships like a Shepherd when they go past ships at a certain angle.
In the meanwhile, is there a way to disable all the features other than the damage calculations? It would probably be best to test that aspect of the mod alone.
Speaking of weapons, some of mod ones seems not affected, like Jackall Slicers from DME, they are Composite slot Ballistic weapons, most of Composite or Hybrid weapons often have in description things like "count as Ballistic or Energy or Missile weapon for stat modifiers" I think you can use it to detect to which weapon type Hybrid or Composite weapon belongs.
Also interesting how mod chooses which weapon is autocannon and which not, most of mod minigun type weapons are now slow firing weapons.
Also missiles now are better, but too much maybe, Reapers accelerate almost immediately so you have no way to dodge them, missiles have super speed now, which makes them both hard to avoid and side-mounted missiles on your own ship sometimes can't hit target which is in front of ship due to overly high velocity. Also about config option, maybe add one which affect lifetime of missiles? For example if I want leave same acceleration of missiles but want to be sure what they will fly further.
And another issue, autofiring weapons seems like they took wrong target leading, when ship moves sideways due to innertia. Its seems like problem with all "realistic" space speed mods,
got one X4 mod,
and there also auto firing weapons took wrong target lead because leading do not count inertia and sideway moving at all and its simply fires into wrong direction, I have Targeting Pip mod, its clearly seen what its in wrong direction.
Also how refireDelays section config works? What do I need to select if I want to try leave vanilla firerates for example.
This mod doesn't play nice with the missiles from Diable. They just schwoosh around their target in a massive swarm without ever actually impacting it.
edit: I think it's more than the missiles from diable
Diable is a good example though
So far, the mod renders PD solutions utterly useless, at least in their intended role: the extended range causes all PD to engage anything within range, causing their magazines to deplete, and seems to have trouble tracking the drastically accelerated missiles.
The targeting AI also seems to not account for the increased projectile velocity, causing turrets to fire their munitions into the ether.
Also, the speed of the missiles seem to break hit registration: Hammer torpedoes fly so fast that they go right through their targets, and have the somewhat hilarious side-effect of spinning ships like a Shepherd when they go past ships at a certain angle.
In the meanwhile, is there a way to disable all the features other than the damage calculations? It would probably be best to test that aspect of the mod alone.
Somthing like advanced optics and energy weapon mastery are mostly useless, these stats should be changed accrodingly
I know not how to detect rotary autocannons but am surprised to learn that Realistic Combat rules instances of them in mods not to be autocannons because I presume their designers to have given them a Charge Time plus Refire Delay, or Burst Delay if their burst size exceeds 3, less than the cannon refire delay threshold of 0.6. Would you please give me an example to test?
I don't know what an X4 mod is. Please, tell me.
Oh boy. Is the Targeting Pip mod at least showing the right place to aim?
QuoteAlso missiles now are better, but too much maybe, Reapers accelerate almost immediately so you have no way to dodge them, missiles have super speed now, which makes them both hard to avoid and side-mounted missiles on your own ship sometimes can't hit target which is in front of ship due to overly high velocity. Also about config option, maybe add one which affect lifetime of missiles? For example if I want leave same acceleration of missiles but want to be sure what they will fly further.
I mean for ships larger than fighters to reliably dodge guided missiles only via such game-changing abilities as phase or teleportation but unguided missiles as they would a ballistic projectile that accelerates in-flight: I will release a patch that adds code to discriminate between guided and unguided missiles. Moreover, the patch will also include code to discriminate between missiles and torpedoes, giving the former a greater maneuverability bonus than the latter. Therefore, the Realistic Combat WeaponCategory.MISSILE will be divided into four new kinds of WeaponCategory:
- GUIDED_MISSILE
- UNGUIDED_MISSILE
- GUIDED_TORPEDO
- UNGUIDED_TORPEDO
This is an exciting change
I also noticed the issue where fighters are now slower than the carrier in some cases
- this is an issue with realism in space combat because there isn't any realistic reason to use fighters in zero-g. There is no upper limit on speed for space vessels, so size isn't a factor in speed. The only reason to use fighters would be that a smaller mass is easier to accelerate and a smaller profile is harder to target, but with laser point defence and infinite sub-light fuel these benefits are made moot. Bigger is always better in space, using realistic flight models. Only maneuverability could be claimed as a benefit of a fighter, but given their fragility and the range of all weapon systems maneuverability doesn't really matter.
Additionally the problem of calculating the proper leading pip for ballistic weapons fired between two ships which each have their own full physics simulated in two dimensions is quite difficult, to put it lightly. An easier problem than three dimensions (to the guy who mentioned the X4 mod), but not really by a whole lot.
Even with approximated inertia, ships in the vanilla game sometimes don't lead their target properly.
Of course, if either ship adjusts their acceleration even minutely while at great distance, the entire calculation needs to be repeated.
The accuracy of ballistic weapons in space combat falls to near zero in any realistic simulation, so this is pretty much as one would expect. Unless the muzzle velocity of the ballistic weapon is extremely high, good luck trying to hit a space ship that is executing evasive maneuvers. The problem with high muzzle velocity is of course the recoil which results from the shot, which goes up in proportion to the kinetic energy of the projectile, but to have any kind of accuracy you'd want to have the projectile travel as fast as conceivably possible.
Hastling Minigun from SWP become slow firing cannon with this mod. ( https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=18938.0 )
I think it will be very hard to properly rebalance weapons from other mods this way, I think its good idea maybe leave this one as total conversion (mod which is supposed to run without other Ship and Weapon packs and factions like Archean Order), and make light-weight version of this mod only with new damage model but leave weapon firerate and range unchanged. Another good idea, maybe add .csv file to forcibly change weapon type from regular cannon to autocannon.
Also regarding of mods, some scripted weapons got broken by mod.
X4 Foundations, 3d space simulator game. It had simmilar mod with "realistic" flight, and it was very hard to hit someone with it.
No, Pip shows same wrong position where AI trying to fire.
First of all:
You're an absolute madman. This mod is legendary. Huge potential. Fun as f***.. I applaud you my guy.
However...
This is basically a total conversion mod. Completely messes up the balance of other mods.
Auto aim is way off sometimes. PD can't reach missiles and fighters at all. At very long ranges, manual aiming is impossible, you have to use autoaim all the time. Lots of other problems that players smarter than me will soon describe in depth.
What is certain that if you have built such a mod, you will be able to fix all the problems and this mod will be a beast.
I downloaded the game and logged on just to see this thing. It's great, Keep up the good work.
So I've returned to the game, after so long not playing it and I've been using your mod. However, I've noticed some stuff being odd.
The biggest concern is how AI leads their shot way too much and keeps missing targets that are moving. :I
And the second is how everything seems to shoot so damn fast. I don't recall most kinetic weapon with be a literal hailstorm.
I'm not quite sure as to why it's happening, but starting the campaign seem to double max speed bonuses, I suspect but cannot confirm that other maneuvering stat modifiers are being applied twice also (see image below)
https://prnt.sc/sFDjGKnXfLMp (https://prnt.sc/sFDjGKnXfLMp)
The wolf, with a stock max speed of 150, is being modified to (150+250+250) = 650. If you use instead the refit screen in the missions, we see the image below with max speed bonuses being applied once
https://prnt.sc/7M3rq6bkyyvp
(https://prnt.sc/7M3rq6bkyyvp)
Strangely, if you boot up campaign, exit campaign, then use the mission refit screen, you also get the double max speed bonus. I suspect something is triggering that script during campaign start.
edit: ModPlugin seems to call adjustSpeedAndManeuverability on application load and on game load -- I'll try disabling one and see if it fixes the issue https://prnt.sc/fMMG6nAHYAP_ (https://prnt.sc/fMMG6nAHYAP_)
edit2: doesn't seem to have done it. On a side note, if you boot up a campaign, exit said campaign, and then boot up another campaign, max speed modifiers apply three times
Haven't tried the mod out yet, but the performance impact is something many would be interested in knowing before trying the mod. Would be a great addition to the FAQ.
What are the modification for the behaviour of fragmentation damage?
Download (https://www.dropbox.com/s/u1e3cpwiv9c0k2d/RealisticCombat.zip?dl=0)
Safe to add and remove, works with all mods, and no dependencies.
Total Combat Conversion
Accurately calculated armor, penetration, and damage
Ships have lower maneuverability but much higher top speed
Range dynamically adjusts based on target maneuverabilityEnable Realistic Combat with ModsSpoilerRealistic Combat works and is stable with all mods but so transforms combat mechanics and balance that some ship or weapon scripts of some mods may run differently or not activate.
- Open the folder of this mod
- Click mod_info.json
- Type false instead of true beside "totalConversion"
[close]FAQSpoilerMod compatibility: This mod is already compatible with and handles all content mods because it replaces the Starsector damage code and changes the base stats of both vanilla and modded weapons, projectiles, missiles, beams, and non-fighter, non-station ships once the game loads. All stat adjustments are documented and configurable.
Performance: Realistic Combat will run on your potato and not slow your game down.
Flickering: When zoomed out far, long, thin lines like laser beams or indicator diamonds may flicker. Enable anti-aliasing in the Starsector Options menu to prevent this visual artifact if you would like to remove it to improve visual quality, but you can play Realistic Combat just as well without it.
Player Aiming: You can shoot just as accurately as the AI because the target leading indicator tells you where to aim and even adjusts to the size of the target ship.
Jinking: Every ship anticipates that its target can dodge projectiles by strafing upward or downward--not just sideways like it could in vanilla Starsector. Therefore, although projectiles don't stop or vanish in three-dimensional space, the range of both ballistic and energy projectile weapons is dynamically limited to the distance at which they could hit a target on the battle plane before it could strafe up or down to avoid their projectiles.[close]FeaturesSpoilerDamage
- Armor is partly or fully penetrated by each shot but does not ablate
- The armor grid now represents compartments that can be destroyed for bonus hull damage
- Taking hull damage reduces combat readiness during combat
- Damage type affects armor thickness and, upon penetration, weapon damage
Weapons
- Projectile weapon range depends on projectile speed and target maneuverability
- Ballistic projectile weapons have limited ammo and recover it slowly
- Beam weapons are long-range and instant, but their damage falls off over range
- Missiles are much faster and more maneuverable
Ships
- Ship top speed is way up across the board, with the buff decreasing with HullSize
- Ship maneuverability is down across the board, with the debuff decreasing with HullSize
HUD
- Target leading indicator to let the player shoot as far and accurately as the AI
- Flux and hull indicators to let the player hide the HUD and quickly assess spread-out battles
- Radar to let the player see the overall battle even when zoomed-in.
Map
- Big combat map
- No fog
AI
- AI does not turn to face with undamaged armor
- 100% autofire accuracy for everyone, player included
[close]Field ManualSpoiler(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52202177050_a7c3fd3d47_o.png) (https://flic.kr/p/2nwVNxm)[close]Pictures (Big - Scroll Right)SpoilerMapSpoiler(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52201962274_79536324e1_o.png)[close]
Zoomed OutSpoiler(https://live.staticflickr.com/6553/52202187565_0a99042cbf_o.png)[close]
Zoomed InSpoiler(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52202191445_3fd6a8b0ea_o.png)[close][close]ChangelogSpoiler1.2.0 - Fighter, ammo, and autofire patch. Made fighters viable by massively increasing their range, speed, and maneuverability. Reduced 'sliding' by slightly improving maneuverability of Cruisers and Capital Ships. Reduced missile spam by introducing soft ammo limits for ballistic and missile weapons. Reduced autofire ammo waste by cutting how far the target can move before the dynamic range algorithm cuts the range off.
1.1.0 - Added the total conversion tag to warn you that Realistic Combat, while stable with all mods, drastically changes ship and weapon balance and may make some modded ship and weapon scripts run differently or not at all. it drastically Reduced missile maneuverability, especially that of high-damage guided missiles, by adding four new kinds of WeaponCategory: UNGUIDED_MISSILE, GUIDED_MISSILE, UNGUIDED_TORPEDO, and TORPEDO.
1.0.4 - Added a failover mode to detect ballistic projectile weapons and energy projectile weapons that lacked the WeaponType.BALLISTIC or WeaponType.ENERGY
1.0.3 - Stations no longer get their maneuverability enormously buffed. I had not known that getAllShipHullSpecs returns those of the stations, too.
1.0.2 - Built-in weapons now also have stats changed. The default method to get all weaponSpecs hadn't returned them, so now they are gotten from their shipHullSpecs.
1.0.1 - Wrapped a try-catch block around the body of each of several public methods because one of them had caused a fatal NullPointerException.[close]
Just booted this up to give it a try, and already I think there may be a problem with beams. I know in vanilla a sim Venture cannot flat out ignore a Paragon's quad HIL at point blank range with its shield, but with this it can. It 'might' have to do with being tested in the Forlorn Hope mission, but I doubt it. Also for non-beam weapons I'm having some issues with autofired weapons overshooting the targeting circle and missing entirely. Sorry, I know you've just tried to fix that.
Looking forward to seeing how this combat overhaul develops.
I have really been enjoying this mod, and have had a lot of fun running missile boats.
However, fighter LPCs have unmodified engagement ranges, meaning they only hover around their mothership unless within close fighting range (4km ish). I have found the atropos-equipped torpedo bombers to be really strong because they can fire torpedoes from a very safe distance and act, essentially, as an infinite bank of torpedoes that can only be fired within 4km.
Thanks for the update, sad to say it doesn't seem to have affected anything for beams though. This time, I went even further extreme to test beam strength: I turned on floating damage numbers and used a Paragon with 4 Tach lances firing linked at point blank (actually bumped me, so it had no armor on parts of it) on a Buffalo 2 because it has no shields. Result: Zero damage whatsoever, though EMP seemingly worked fine, paralyzing it.
Also created a new save to make sure it wasn't an issue with the Missions. A brand new Apogee start had the same issue, no damage on the hull or in floating numbers for the tac lasers, but yes to both on the mining blaster hits. Maybe something in how beams are supposed to do 'continuous' damage is not making the transition properly?
Just gave it a try and got my end-game fleet utterly destroyed by a pirate bounty.Still thoroughly enjoy the much larger engagement range. ;D
I'm still on my way to figure out the new "meta" but I have noticed some fighter/interceptor are dealing insane amount of kinetic damage with their fast firing weapon. Is there any change made to compensate the increased fire rate (and DPS) or is this a bug? I don't think a pair of interceptor wing is supposed to completely suppress a battleship's shield.
Longer engangement range and changed mobility parameters are a true miracle (dueling two Conquests exchanging broadsides is very tasty), but the changed weapon parameters feel very strange and not always pleasant, for my taste. Every automatic weapon now fires like a gsh-6-30 on steroids mixed with Adderall, every "accurate" cannon is now virtually useless due to a broken target lead and ridiculous DPS (fr exmpl, DME Cryophase autoguns is now delete ship shields from universe, when kinetic shellhead do literally nothing in combad except drainin my flux). And it doesn't feel very pleasant to fight in large battles, when the whole game feels like you have SpeedUp's x2 enabled by default and every ship has a MHM SplitChamber. It's all very twitchy. And fast missiles with ECCM just teleports in target.
But I am sure that these are all solvable problems, the direction that the mod gives the game I really like.
_________________________
Oh, and the minimal combat UI is fantastic, I wonder if it can be used on its own?
I just wanna give a few comments. how ever it's near 2am. while I liked a lot how the mod could be and sounds like it'd revamp weapon damage to armor ratio at angles. I can't stand sweeping changes to weapons from ammo, rate of fire, range, accuracy, ammo reload rate ect with no balancing between weapons. as is since I heavily use some 120+ mods, this is unusable for myself.
what I would consider enticing in this idea of mod: if there were a Lite version of the mod that tried to work with other mods to integrate the armor/damage calculation, no fog of war, combat map size increase(as it is), mini-map, multiplied vanilla weapon ranges by 3x(so it would work with modded weapons too), maybe a missile range boost of 3x and their speed by 3x to get there in same amount of time as vanilla, fighter ranges multiplied by 3x and their speed, ship speed(100% faster) with maneuverability reduced(by percentage25%). then it would be trying to expand the battle size without forcing flat sweeping changes that require rebalancing every weapon again.
but it's your mod to do as you like. I am still interested in it's progress and what becomes of it.
Good job mate =)
Can confirm, beams online! And wow does this change the Paragon. Even with High Scatter Amplifier reducing it, the massive range boosts overall turn it from a fleet anchor forced to choose between long range soft flux or a close range sluggish brawler, into a proper sniper/artillery capable of deleting non-capitals with impunity. Just the way I like it. Well done, looking forward to seeing how this mod evolves, meanwhile I'm gonna go start a new run.
I would note that weapons are actually doing damage now, in general. Specifically, for rebalance mods I always try the missions, and the first mission, the enemy mule was effectively invulnerable before.
Honestly, the most impressive part is that it seems to have a way to dynamically alter weapons and ships, rather than doing them all manually. Sure, the alternate damage system, and projectile deflection is interesting, as is the dynamically changing range based on target size and speed, but the dynamic weapon alternations is the part I thought was impossible.
so far i also like it. the only thing (maybe only for me?) that is strange is, that the rockets/missiles fly with lightspeed (for example the missiles from the ed shipyard mod). they are that fast, that they surround the ship and only hit it, if it fly fast to an another point (or is big enough). is that normal or do i have change something?
Wooooo! I'm glad that you've tried and liked it! Thank you so much. Do you mean that the missiles are swirling around the ships? If so, I might have to increase their maneuverability.
exactly that. in the main menu of starsector the missiles i see have a "good/normal or how you want call that" speed (doesn´t look like the missiles in my fightes with extrem speed). big difference between main menu and my own fightes. i think the maneuverability is good but somehow (maybe only for me?) the speed is too high (or for some missile types if they have they on values)
exactly that. in the main menu of starsector the missiles i see have a "good/normal or how you want call that" speed (doesn´t look like the missiles in my fightes with extrem speed). big difference between main menu and my own fightes. i think the maneuverability is good but somehow (maybe only for me?) the speed is too high (or for some missile types if they have they on values)
i tried other missiles. it looks like missiles with medium speed in description are good in speed and some (or maybe most) missiles with fast or very fast are "too fast". the missiles from the ed shipyard mod as example are too fast.
This mod is quite wild and ambitious.
The current experience has a few more impact on the play experience.
Each ship is difficult to control the movement, which leads to every battle they will be almost mixed together. It impossible for some vulnerable ships (like carriers) to hide behind, but also makes the super long range not get played because they are blocking each other. This problem makes it difficult to operate and command in the battle now. Now the game is difficult to really play in, only by automatic operation.
Another problem is that weapon changes after the change will be extremely different due to some parameters, such as diableavionic's opfergv, lts actual rate of fire is burst delay, while in the mod is based on the chargeup chargedown calculation, resulting in a large discrepancy in the results.
private static boolean isCannon(WeaponSpecAPI weaponSpec) {
projectileWeaponSpecProxy.setWeaponSpec(weaponSpec);
if (weaponSpec.getBurstSize() > 3) return projectileWeaponSpecProxy.getBurstDelay()
> getCannonRefireDelayThreshold();
return (weaponSpec.getChargeTime() + projectileWeaponSpecProxy.getRefireDelay()
> getCannonRefireDelayThreshold());
}
private static boolean isCannon(WeaponSpecAPI weaponSpec) {
projectileWeaponSpecProxy.setWeaponSpec(weaponSpec);
return weaponSpec.getBurstSize() > 3
? projectileWeaponSpecProxy.getBurstDelay() > getCannonRefireDelayThreshold()
: weaponSpec.getChargeTime() + projectileWeaponSpecProxy.getRefireDelay()
> getCannonRefireDelayThreshold();
}
Built in weapons like versant wanzer's harvester have no increased range.
I feel that this problem is best to write a script that shows what the weapon should have dps in vanilla and so on to facilitate comparison.
At the same time I recommend the swp (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=11018.0) custom battle and random battle mission, you can do a lot of combat testing.
Finally, good luck with your mod! :)
The scaled up map size is great, but it seems to allow ships to retreat from the middle of the map.
I'm not sure how the code around that works at all, but might be something worth looking into.
I've downloaded this for trying later, and I think the zoom modification effect is applying despite the mod not being activated. Fortunately I loike the ability to zoom out so much more
Hello! I just created an account so I can comment.
Let me just say I like the mod and it's execution for the most part, but a particular balance problem I have:
Frigates, particularly their range. They are extremely fast for such a small target, and although that can be mitigated with configuration the major problem with them is fact that they can easily outrange larger hulls, especially capitals.
Which is rather absurd in my opinion.
Perhaps it is possible for you to code in smaller hulls having a range malus of some sort?
On my way to try this on next run,
but i have some idea to share, if u're interested)
What if "Compartment" part of the armor will be changed to "Armor integrity" with follow properties:
- while it is intact - projectiles need to penetrate the Citadel Armor to deal damage
- once Citadel Armor being penetrated - "Armor integrity" lowers depend on projectile size(weapon size) and it's damage
- while "Armor integrity" is not full - there's a chance for projectile to ignore the Citadel Armor (or it's part) and efficiency of ricochet is reduced due to armor being a mess rather then shiny plates)
So the more damage is going throug Citadel Armor - the weaker it becomes in probability manner, like it's become more "holes" in the armor after big hits so the weak projectiles have a chanse to come through.
How exactly does armor degredation work now then? My reading suggests that a damaged armor section is fully effective, but penetration deals bonus damage of some amount. Also, there might be layers of armor that can be partly degraded for some effect? It isn't exactly clear, having read the graphical manual.
private static float getCombatReadinessLimit(ShipAPI ship) {
return Math.max(ship.getHullLevel() - RealisticCombatSettings.getCombatReadinessOffset(),
RealisticCombatSettings.getCombatReadinessOffset());
}
/**
* Limits the combat readiness of a {@link ShipAPI} to some percentage points
* less than its hull level because a damaged ship is less ready to fight.
*
* @param ship {@link ShipAPI}
*/
private static void limitCR(ShipAPI ship) {
try { if (ship.getCurrentCR() < getCombatReadinessLimit(ship))
ship.setCurrentCR(getCombatReadinessLimit(ship)); }
catch (Throwable ignored) {}
}This proposed armor model would amount to the old armor one, which I replaced with the new one because any explosion that could tear the armor off a ship would meanwhile destroy the ship entirely.It's kind of referencing to the actual ingame armor model indeed, but it's possible to play with numbers of chanses and this will allow fighters and frigates to deal some damage to heavy armored vehicles after heavy armaments have destoyed integrity.
Something seems funky with the combat readiness code:Codeprivate static float getCombatReadinessLimit(ShipAPI ship) {
return Math.max(ship.getHullLevel() - RealisticCombatSettings.getCombatReadinessOffset(),
RealisticCombatSettings.getCombatReadinessOffset());
}
/**
* Limits the combat readiness of a {@link ShipAPI} to some percentage points
* less than its hull level because a damaged ship is less ready to fight.
*
* @param ship {@link ShipAPI}
*/
private static void limitCR(ShipAPI ship) {
try { if (ship.getCurrentCR() < getCombatReadinessLimit(ship))
ship.setCurrentCR(getCombatReadinessLimit(ship)); }
catch (Throwable ignored) {}
}
Firstly, it seems to call a "getCombatReadinessOffset" in realisticCombatSettings, which I can't seem to find.
Secondly, The idea of this is to lower combat readiness as the ship gets damaged, right? If so, shouldn't it trigger if the ship's current CR is greater than the CR limit? As it stands, it seems backwards.
I think you have accomplished the impossible and made a mod that actually make starsector feel like it takes place in space
When I try to install this mod using Mod Organizer for StarSector, I keep running in to this issue where the folder overwrites itself.
"Found a folder at the path C:\Program Files (x86)\Fractal Softworks\Starsector\mods\RealisticCombat when trying to install RealisticCombat. Would you like to replace the existing folder?"
If I select Overwrite it just deletes everything in the folder. Should I use a different mod manager maybe?
Edit: Nevermind, I successfully installed the mod by directly installing from the zip file, I'll let you know how the mod is after I play with it for a bit.
https://youtu.be/hDiSQTKv_8A
(https://i.imgur.com/2zlyi2M.png)
My impressions: I really like the large change in scale as it really does make the combat feel a lot more realistic, however the similar increase in speed of all craft and the massive ROF increase for weapons makes the game more frenzied and difficult to clearly see what is happening in battle. Harpoons also strangely seem way faster than all other missiles and are nearly impossible to stop.
Interesting though this mod is, it's less of a 'realistic combat' mod to me and more of a 'make combat bigger, bombastic and exciting', at least in a large, admittedly modded fleet battle.
Feel free, just don't forget to add a disclaimer that the video has additional mods.
Hello the mod is awesome but right now the beams seems broken, they don't go past 1000 range. I believe it's a bug?
This mod seems very cool! But I'm a bit confused on how armor works. If I'm understanding it correctly shots have to penatrate through to the citadel layer to do damage. Does that mean you want guns that do more damage per shot? That way you could go all the way through easier. And the vanilla armor overlay is for bonus damage to the hull right?
Glad to see it's fixed. I'll playtest it tonight. That said though, I don't know that I agree with binding a beam's range to its DPS, much less it's sustained DPS (which was the 1.4.2 implementation). By making one a function of the other, you remove a dimension that beams can use to differentiate between them -- we can no longer have a short range, high damage, high diffraction assault beam and a longer range, lower damage close support beam. From a game design perspective, I don't know that that's ideal. From a realism perspective, I think different beam emitters can have different diffraction factors.
Perhaps a better way of dealing with it is for beams to use their CSV range and DPS, and for the game to calculate diffracted DPS accordingly as a function of the two, down to the threshold at max range?
On another note -- the excessive harpoon speed seem to be hardcoded for whatever reason. In my personal mod I've made a copy of harpoon_mrm.proj and called harpoon_mrm_rc.proj. I then changed all references to harppon_mrm to the rc version and that seems to have fixed the issue.
How about focus range? Something about how rather than having laser light all in exactly the same line, which is apparently impossible, but rather it is more like one of those "arbritrarily close" things where they converge at a point at some distance. Presumably you can somehow alter the focus range, but that takes equipment of some kind that reduces how much power you can put into the beam.
I bound beam range to diffracted damage per second because every beam could deal a little damage per second from across the map, but every ship AI which must decide whether to fire each beam weapon thinks it would deal full damage. I cannot find a justification for a tradeoff between range and damage because they depend on the same phenomenon: many energetic photons moving closely together at once.
How about focus range? Something about how rather than having laser light all in exactly the same line, which is apparently impossible, but rather it is more like one of those "arbritrarily close" things where they converge at a point at some distance. Presumably you can somehow alter the focus range, but that takes equipment of some kind that reduces how much power you can put into the beam.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXD8Asgn1io
Gave the new version a shot, the beam change made it feel very different to me somehow in a good way, maybe previously my fleet just behaved oddly because beams just weren't working correctly.
The AI doesn't seem to utilize the range of their weapons that well though, you can see them completely swarm the station at knife-fighting range for some reason. Very fun and different feel to Starsector, I'm not sure it works all that well at the massive, modded scales that I'm playing at though, people playing more vanilla might find the AI behaves better.
edit: Actually, after reloading that save and replaying that fight with Realistic Combat off, it felt significantly more cramped and too close-quarters in vanilla by comparison. I might try the rest of this run with Realistic Combat on.
Most weapons definitely need to be rebalanced though, the Devastator Cannon is just way too good in RC and Harpoons are overperforming like crazy. My Dominators with triple Harpoon MRM Pods absolutely decimated the enemy fleet with their opening salvos, those things are just too fast to be intercepted
This mod is extremely cool and I don't think that I'll be able to play without it to be quite honest.
I do have a question: how does the mod affect the Energy Weapons Mastery skill?
Please tell me why the Devastator cannon is too good.
Follow the Onslaught in the video, I have it equipped with Devastators in the two large side mounts. In vanilla the Devastator is ostensibly an anti-armor weapon dealing HE but effectively is a fighter/missile shredder due to the inconsistency in the detonation of its flak, with RC the massive ROF, range and velocity increase means the Devastator becomes an absolute chainsaw with the occasional shot detonating in transit but the majority hit their target, deleting any armor that existed. Also, I'm not sure if it's just a bug with Detailed Combat Results and RC but the after-action report showed my PD lasers as doing insane amounts of damage. I didn't observe anything like that in the vid so maybe it's just the interaction between the two mods, might be worth looking into.
After some further testing, tactical lasers and PD lasers also need some adjusting, they're plain murderous right now and absolutely shred through hull like butter once armor is gone.
The manual part with armor having two layers is probably what is confusing me. It doesn't give me useful information. 1/6th or 1/10th of what? And the rest.
edit: Actually, after reloading that save and replaying that fight with Realistic Combat off, it felt significantly more cramped and too close-quarters in vanilla by comparison. I might try the rest of this run with Realistic Combat on. Most weapons definitely need to be rebalanced though, the Devastator Cannon is just way too good in RC and Harpoons are overperforming like crazy. My Dominators with triple Harpoon MRM Pods absolutely decimated the enemy fleet with their opening salvos, those things are just too fast to be intercepted
After some further testing, tactical lasers and PD lasers also need some adjusting, they're plain murderous right now and absolutely shred through hull like butter once armor is gone.
Using the most recent version, I no longer see any ricochets, or hits that do nothing. it seems like it is using the vanilla damage model again.
Not sure if I did something wrong. I deleted the mod and downloaded a fresh copy, and have no other mods enabled. Not sure what is going on.
Previously ricochets were a thing.
Earlier post suggests that the (intended) damage model is something like.What on earth are you talking about? A destroyed compartment definitely takes less damage. Anyway, here's how I think the damage formula works, Liral please correct me if I'm wrong.
Check for penetration, if fail, deflect, else penetrate.
On penetrate, if compartment intact (true/false, or progressive?) cut damage by 60x, else cut by 10x.
Deal remaining damage to armor and hull.
Armor stripping is entirely replaced. Instead of resisting damage and taking a fraction of the damage after resistance, and degrading with hits, instead it has a seperate penetration test at 1/15th armor strength, for depleting it's durability. When depleted, it doesn't make the armor easier to penetrate, but successful penetrations deal more damage in some way.
I have trouble believing that an intact compartment reduces damage to 1/6th and a depleted one reduces damage to 1/10th, as implied by the manual, because then depleting a compartment makes the target MORE durable.
Its hard to tell what the "Armor and compartments have two layers" graphic is supposed to be saying, is what I am getting at. The first, 1/15th layer of armor, is that a separate penetration roll? What is the 1/6th and 1/10th damage indicate? Amount of damage dealt to the compartment for depletion, or damage reduction? I.e. depletion means that you take 90% damage instead of 86%. Which is a tiny change, so I doubt it.
What on earth are you talking about? A destroyed compartment definitely takes less damage. Anyway, here's how I think the damage formula works, Liral please correct me if I'm wrong.
1. A projectile hits a ship. If it's KE damage, its listed damage is multiplied by 1.33. If it's HE, it's multiplied by 0.67 instead. This value becomes our "Armor Pen" value.
2. Armor Pen is compared against 1/15th of the total armor of the ship being struck, which is also increased or decreased by the angle of impact. If Armor Pen is less than this value, you get a deflection and absolutely nothing happens.
3. If Armor Pen is greater than the previous value but less than the full armor value of the ship(again accounting for angle of impact), then you get a partial penetration. If the armor cell struck by your projectile is still intact, the target ship's hull bar and the armor cell both take 16.6% of the listed damage of the projectile, multiplied by 0.5 if it's KE or 2 if it's HE. If the armor cell is not intact, the target ship's hull takes 10% of the damage instead.
4. If Armor Pen is greater than the full armor value of the target ship(accounting for angle of impact), then you get a full penetration, aka a citadel hit. In that case, the ship's hull takes 100% of the projectile's damage. I'm guessing that said damage is also applied to the compartment hit, but I don't know if citadelling an already destroyed armor cell does less damage than hitting an intact one.
I'm also not sure how damage is applied to multiple cells, since as we all know in vanilla a hit actually does damage to 21 cells at once. I'd guess penetration and damage is calculated, then split up among the cells, with each one providing a damage reduction based on whether it's destroyed or not?
Well, I am trying to understand how it works, and I thought it was said that destroyed compartments increased damage taken. But, if that isn't the case, I suppose that I was wrong.
So you have 3 stages of penetration. Deflection, for very weak hits, partial, which damages compartments, and compartment damage applies to hull partially, and once destroyed, deals less damage to hull, and full penetration, which deals full damage.
Damage and penetration vary by damage type.
Overall, assuming this is how it works, I have a good idea on the mechanics now.
Edit: if this is accurate, then you want to spread your damage out, and also weapons need a minimum of 1/15th the target's armor in penetration, ideally more because of deflection.
Past that, explosives are better vs light armor or smaller ships, while kinetic is best against heavy armor are bigger ships.
Flak is still best as pd or vs fighters, but since armor can't be stripped, it will be completely ineffective vs even minor armor.
Do shields behave any differently?
Still the old version under download.
On beam range thing.
Ignoring the Quantum limit, and looking more at, essentially, how tight the beam is. If the beam looses effectiveness with distance, presumably following the standard 1/x^2 falloff for surface of a sphere, then tightening the beam, and/or altering the size of the aperture, should alter, effectively, how quickly damage falls off with distance. If the angle of the cone is larger, the surface area grows faster with distance, while if it is smaller, it grows slower. If the angle is, essentially, zero, then, ignoring quantum effects, the beam should never fall off at all. So for longer range weapons, you would have a tighter spread.
The size of the aperture also might matter, as that is how spread out it starts. I think. Larger weapons would start somewhat spread out, so excessively close ranges wouldn't deal quite as excessive quantities of damage.
Extra laser power would still, essentially, increase range, but there would be a soft cap anyway, simply because of weapon economy. losing 99% of your damage, when you still have to spend a ton of flux makes it kind of not worth firing. Especially for, say, burst point defense.
Missile weapons seem to have lost their autoloaders, and the Annihilator launcher has both lost most of its ammo, and still has significant weapon inaccuracy rendering it effectively useless.
Its fixed. Missiles are the same.
Gonna try an actual game now.
Hmm, Missiles still the same. Confirmed version 1.7.1
What do the various toggles in the config file do? If I set them all to false would I get a vanilla game but with the new damage and range models?
Couple questions since I'm away from computer right now:
When weapon range is adjusted to account for jinking, does it matter what the projectile ultimately hits? In other words, if I fire a long range shot against say an onslaught, could it hit the hound just in front of it or would the hound be able to jink it somehow?
Are beams affected by the weapon range adjustment?
Beam damages decrease from diffraction, right? Such that DPS = 1 at the max range limit? Would AI account for this when firing their beams? In other words, would my autofire waste all my burst laser charges before the missile gets close enough for them to effectively deal damage to it?
Is it possible to track time in flight for a projectile, maybe? Also, would it be possible to adjust beam range to use a percentage of the base damage, e.g only fire if I would do at least 20% of my base damage on hit? It feels bad seeing HILs and Tach Lances eating all that flux for nothing, but if you up the base damage requirement too much a LR PD laser might never fire.Couple questions since I'm away from computer right now:
When weapon range is adjusted to account for jinking, does it matter what the projectile ultimately hits? In other words, if I fire a long range shot against say an onslaught, could it hit the hound just in front of it or would the hound be able to jink it somehow?
Yes, though maybe I could change that.QuoteAre beams affected by the weapon range adjustment?
Disappointingly, yes. I wish they weren't. I might have to do something fancier than what it does now.QuoteBeam damages decrease from diffraction, right? Such that DPS = 1 at the max range limit? Would AI account for this when firing their beams? In other words, would my autofire waste all my burst laser charges before the missile gets close enough for them to effectively deal damage to it?
DPS = 10 at the range limit. The AI has no idea, unfortunately. :(
Is it possible to track time in flight for a projectile, maybe?
Also, would it be possible to adjust beam range to use a percentage of the base damage, e.g only fire if I would do at least 20% of my base damage on hit? It feels bad seeing HILs and Tach Lances eating all that flux for nothing, but if you up the base damage requirement too much a LR PD laser might never fire.
Does beam emp diffract too?
Good. Maybe have the arc chance falloff as well/instead/ dives between the two for those that can arc.
On compartments. Do those have, essentially, the same amount of health as vanilla armor? As in 1/21th over 21 tiles? Or whatever it was? Meaning that heavy armor actually can, for partial penetrations, make things moderately worse, because compartments take longer to break and stop boosting damage as much?
How is splash damage dealt with, do flack shells bounce, or do they get considered perfectly aimed at all in range?
What do range modifiers do? Increase projectile speed, or reduce effective jink speed?(predictive target tracking)
What about armor skills, like +effective armor taking hits/on hit.
Missiles need to be tougher, faster, regenerative, or some combination thereof, as they get intercepted way too easily. Especially torpedos since they cannot manuver.
Given higher speeds, teleport ship abilities should have boosted range. I think.
What is the whole cannon thing for weapon balance script?
Do you plan to alter shield mechanics?
I'd have to rewrite the beam effect plugins for that.Makes sense. I just feel that the less potent beam probably ought to arc less because there is less power. Would be weird to have full arcing dealing minimal damage. Admittedly, I am unsure if the arc damage is inherited from the weapon or part of the script too, so it might be an issue either way.
Yeah, compartments have the usual ~1/15th health that armor cells do. Damage gets done to compartments regardless of partial or full penetration. The total potential damage from compartment breakage increases with armor rating. Now that I think about it, this is rather strange. Shouldn't the compartments have a portion of total hull? I must think...Hmm. I suppose giving them all health/tilecount/15 health is probably the correct number.
Could you elaborate? All FRAGMENTATION faces 4x thickness armor and deals 4x damage on penetrations.When an explosion occurs, from a ship death, fragmentation bombs, or flak, it, I believe, hits all ships in an AOE. This doesn't really have a direction of impact, and so because it kinda just hits from all directions, it should treat it as a direct, 90 degree perpendicular hit, as FRAGMENTATION damage.
They end up just extending range but not increasing speed after the fact. Target tracking is as predictive as possible already for all ships.Then shouldn't that not do anything? I thought range was pretty much just overwritten by projectile speed and target manuverability. Meaning it does nothing at all.
Haven't done anything about skills, but they are on the menu.Meant more along the lines of how some skill mods, and presumably hull mods, would change effective damage for armor calculations only. That said stat should specifically modify penetration score.
Huh, I haven't seen that yet, but I'll test for it and get back to you. I'll make them faster if need be.Yea. Gunny battles kept rough balance between PD and missiles, with PD having double range and half damage, and missiles having double speed and half health. Relative to the double range and speed of everything, anyway. Archean Order made missiles regenerate to compensate for stronger fighters and PD.
That would take recoding them. :(Indeed. Shame that isn't a mutable stat.
Right now, a cannon is a slow-firing weapon. It gets treated differently than a fast-firing one. I'm gonna give them bonus damage.I mean, how is it treated differently? How exactly do weapons get modified by the script? I saw that weapons all seem to get a range bonus based on size, which presumably comes with a projectile speed bonus, and somehow all ballistic weapons have magazines and batch reloading, but I don't know the rules. And cannons are apparently are a category based on some stats of some weapons and have a different set of modifications.
Well that's an entire can of worms..Indeed. But clearly projectiles should bounce off of shield bubbles as much as they do against armor. XD
Hmm. I suppose giving them all health/tilecount/15 health is probably the correct number.
When an explosion occurs, from a ship death, fragmentation bombs, or flak, it, I believe, hits all ships in an AOE. This doesn't really have a direction of impact, and so because it kinda just hits from all directions, it should treat it as a direct, 90 degree perpendicular hit, as FRAGMENTATION damage.
Then shouldn't that not do anything? I thought range was pretty much just overwritten by projectile speed and target manuverability. Meaning it does nothing at all.
Meant more along the lines of how some skill mods, and presumably hull mods, would change effective damage for armor calculations only. That said stat should specifically modify penetration score.
Yea. Gunny battles kept rough balance between PD and missiles, with PD having double range and half damage, and missiles having double speed and half health. Relative to the double range and speed of everything, anyway. Archean Order made missiles regenerate to compensate for stronger fighters and PD.
As it is, Rockets and torpedos get intercepted casually, though I suspect missiles jink. Admittedly, since Rockets and torpedos have an acceleration, they might also be simulated as jinking. but it feels imbalanced. Along with Annilator rockets having 16 missiles instead of 50 or 80 or whatever it is in vanilla.
I mean, how is it treated differently? How exactly do weapons get modified by the script? I saw that weapons all seem to get a range bonus based on size, which presumably comes with a projectile speed bonus, and somehow all ballistic weapons have magazines and batch reloading, but I don't know the rules. And cannons are apparently are a category based on some stats of some weapons and have a different set of modifications.
Indeed. But clearly projectiles should bounce off of shield bubbles as much as they do against armor. XD
Breach Missiles, and anything using that modifier/script will, presumably, deal damage to compartments, and probably nothing to the hull. Or something, I dunno how they work, but wrongly is a good guess.
Salamander missile script means that you need to override the script, or make sure that the speed/maneuverability ratio is maintained. Otherwise you get infinite orbits, which are no fun for anyone.
Damage Penetration should either get a +0.3%, or hit angles below ~5 degrees should be treated as zero, so that common damage numbers giving penetration exactly matching target armor can penetrate for direct hits. Or something like that. Its annoying having to, essentially, say that a projectile with 100 penetration can penetrate, at best, 99.7 armor, meaning you can't just multiply to get good estimates.
| Angle (degrees) | Angled Thickness (mm) |
| 90 | 300 |
| 80 | 304 |
| 70 | 319 |
| 60 | 346 |
| 50 | 391 |
| 40 | 466 |
| 30 | 600 |
Give larger weapons a flat penetration bonus. Medium gets +25, and large gets +50 penetration (modified by HE/KI/FG damage type)
Overpenetration. As an "It would be cool if" thing, a projectile with 2x+ penetration/armor should pierce through the target and continue, possibly with lost speed, damage, and altered angle. And possibly dealing somewhat less damage, or damage spread through more compartments til it reaches the other side. Or something. Dunno if practical.
Yea, but if its a projectile, and an explosion, what angle does it hit the armor at?QuoteExplosionsAhhhh... I see. I've read the API, and the explosion is already covered because it is a DamagingProjectileAPI! :)
Thats not skills, or not entirely. That is integrated targeting sensor and targeting core and safety overrides and ECM.QuoteThen shouldn't that not do anything? I thought range was pretty much just overwritten by projectile speed and target manuverability. Meaning it does nothing at all.
Yeah, I have to rework those skills!
The difference is that cannons don't have an ammo limit and, if they have multiple barrels, fire in a burst of all of them without delay, while autocannons get an ammo limit if ballistic and, if they fire in bursts, fire full-auto at their burst delay.Ah. Hope to get documentation on this later.
Yea. I had some thoughts, about just using an incidence angle threshold based on shield efficiency and current flux/max flux. Especially amusing because fortress shield should just cause most things to bounce off.
Hmmmmm... that could actually be arranged.
Are those a problem?Yes. Salamanders get stuck orbiting frigates currently.
Ooooh, I didn't think of that. If your projectile deals 150 damage, and the target has the ever-so-common 150 armor, then the projectile fully penetrates only on an absolutely perfectly straight hit. That said... why else would the target have been designed to have exactly 150 armor if not to counter a common projectile damage amount? If you want to penetrate an amount of armor, then give your projectile some extra damage to contend with 1 / sin(x). For example, here is a table of a 300mm (aka 300 armor rating) target at different angles:Makes sense, still annoying. can perfect 90 degree impacts actually occur?
Angle (degrees) Angled Thickness (mm) 90 300 80 304 70 319 60 346 50 391 40 466 30 600
An LRP (a.k.a. KINETIC) would need 341 * 0.67 = 228mm RHAe of penetration (a.k.a., stated damage) to reach the citadel of a destroyer with 300mm of total armor (a.k.a. armor rating) at 60 degrees; an EFP (a.k.a. HIGH_EXPLOSIVE) would need 341 * 1.5 = 512mm RHAe of penetration to do the same.
Right idea, but the numbers are many times too small: +100 for small-mount cannons, +200 for medium-mount cannons, +300 for large-mount cannons. Autocannons get nothing.Unsurprising. I just made those up quickly.
That is something I've thought about myself.Good to know.
Yea, but if its a projectile, and an explosion, what angle does it hit the armor at?
Thats not skills, or not entirely. That is integrated targeting sensor and targeting core and safety overrides and ECM.
Ah. Hope to get documentation on this later.
Yea. I had some thoughts, about just using an incidence angle threshold based on shield efficiency and current flux/max flux. Especially amusing because fortress shield should just cause most things to bounce off.
Yes. Salamanders get stuck orbiting frigates currently.
Makes sense, still annoying. can perfect 90 degree impacts actually occur?
I guess I just have to treat it as, Penetration must be greater than armor. Given the threshold for 5 degrees is literally 0.38%, even +1 damage is probably enough for penetration given a direct shot.
It is just annoying how often the penetration and armor, or armor/15 just so happen to be equal, at least for smaller weapons and ships. Thumper deals 100 damage, 25 penetration, and talon fighters have exactly 25 armor. But some fighters are actually even more fragile, so w.e. Just have to live with it.
It is actually kinda interesting the different damage-armor range bands you end up with, and it cycles Kinetic, Explosive, Fragmentation, then repeats.
(Ignoring Compartment damage bonus, for simplicity here)
Kinetic deals damage to 22.5x armor, but doesn't get its full half-damage until armor drops to 1.5x. Dealing 5% and 50% damage means that although kinetic weapons will usually eventually wear a target down, it isn't going to happen fast, even for full penetration.
Explosive gains purchase at 11.25x, and full damage at 0.75x. So explosives have to be very strong for full effect. Also, they need twice the damage to penetrate, but get thrice the effect of kinetic at 15% and 150% damage.
Frag struggles massively, with 3.75x and 0.25x penetration modifiers, but the 40% and 400% is massive. Full kinetic penetration is comparable to partial frag penetration, and given the sheer damage frag has, roughly double that of other weapons, along with the magnitude required to actually breach a citadel means that a fragmentation hit of that magnitude is probably going to one-shot the target.
In terms of how many times more armor the target has than weapon damage, and best damage type.
So 22.5x to 11.25x kinetic. 5%
11.25x to 3.75x, Explosive. 15%
3.75x to 1.5x Frag. 40%.
1.5x to 0.75x Kinetic again. 50%
0.75x to 0.25x Explosive, 150%.
0.25x Frag, 400%.
So kinetic is best if you have no other option, or can't get big enough weapons, but you really want to use bigger guns if you can.
Explosives need to be twice as strong, and fragmentation 6x as strong (as kinetic, or 3x explosive) for effect.
Even minor fragmentation damage is no joke, because fragmentation tends to be 2-3x the dps of kinetic/explosive.
Honestly, I think that fragmentation damage needs pulled back, to 1/4th penetration, and only 2x damage. The Thumper can murder above average frigates in seconds with their shields down, which is.... Not something it can do in vanilla.
Also, I wish it was 1/16th for outer armor instead of 1/15th because then the math resolves so much easier in my head. Was that just because of the 1/15th armor tile health thing, or what?
How did you alter damage to components? I assume ionic damage ignores armor entirely, but for regular damage, is that modified? I could see the partial penetrations to intact compartments dealing extra subsystem damage as well.
Beams. Can we get a range-band/damage table, for "Point blank", 10%, 25%, 50%, 75%, and 100% of calculated distance, or however you do it? Because my point defense beams seem to be the most lethal weapon on some of my ships, and that just seems weird.
\Heh. Something you probably should look into at some point admittedly, because I am pretty sure you could get silly results out of it if it works in some ways.
I have no idea, but the code must be handling it, I guess! ???
Understood. Didn't see that, maybe it was new since I checked the front page, or I am just oblivous.
Yeah, I have a whole section on the front page about that. It's called Possible Future Features and goes on for a while.
True enough. Mostly wanted to know what the rules were "Right Now", even if it changed, because intuition pump. I don't know what weapons are altered or why yet.
Honestly, this stuff is so complicated and changes so much and so often that the documentation would end up outdated. I recommend reading the source code itself, which is included in the mod folder. All the variables and functions have nice, consistent names, and the code is well-split into intuitively named methods.
Ok, so I take you to mean that more-efficient shields would be 'harder,' and what about current vs max flux?Yea. I did some thinking on it. Since vanilla, obviously, lacks any "Shield Armor" thing, aside from shield Efficiency, you would have to add something for it. Also, rapidfire weapons have always had a larger proportional effect on shields compared to armor, so having a penetration-damage thing might not work the best.
I believe that Salamanders have a script telling them to approach, orbit around to the back, then steer into the engines. They have a set orbit radius, and that is static, not based on speed/manuverability. As such, if the ratio between maneuverability and speed increases, the smallest possible orbit increases in size, and the salamander just gets stuck in an orbit. It doesn't know how to take a larger orbit to give it time to turn, so it keeps aiming at the ground and missing.... I mean the frigate.
Oh no, not again...
That is, probably, a no, unless AOE hits are considered direct hits, which is what I was getting at.
If you literally got to 90.0000..., yes
Exactly. Except it was more like, Thumper. 100 damage, 25 penertration. Exactly enough to breach a Talon's full armor, at 25. Except no, it only gets a partial penetration. Which, being frag, is still hilariously lethal, because frag deals ~8x as much damage as anything else because frag already has 2-3x damage, and then you added another 4x modifier.
I am open to change about this: I had no idea it even worked out this way. I think you mean that you find reading, "Damage: 50," thinking, "Aha, so I can penetrate 750 armor rating, but only on a direct shot--gotta get right on..." and then only partially penetrating, to be annoying, right?
Yea. Frag, honestly, is king right now, because frag weapons tend to have 2-3x damage, which in vanilla is countered by the 1/4th damage mod against anything but hull. Here, Frag hits that would slowly ablate vanilla armor tear into compartments and deal comparable damage to citadel hits. So frag damage hitting compartments can easily shred lighter frigates. Thumper is blocked at 375 armor, but that is above the frigate average. The Flak cannon, assuming it is still 200 damage and the AOE isn't actually a thing, is trumped at 750 armor, and deals 80 damage per hit, which, admittedly, isn't as ridiculous as thumper's own 5 hits of 40 per second. No wonder frigates pop so quickly.
Yes, you understood my intention exactly! Kinetic to get through at all, high explosive to exploit overmatch, two layers of armor, and frag if you have a massive overmatch! I'm surprised to learn about that intermediate frag layer, though.
Same difference, Right? I mean, a 100 damage weapon having 100/4=25 penetration vs 25 armor, or a 100 damage weapon having 100 penetrationg vs 25x4=100 armor.
Note that it's not 1/4th penetration but 4x effective armor thickness. Wait... the Thumper can do that? I never even knew! I've gotta try this out before patching it.
Yea. Dividing by a nice neat 16 makes all the computer nerds happy. On the other hand, only a smaller number of ship end up with a round number matching weapon damage when outer armor divides by 15, so maybe maybe not.
The 1/15th is not exact and is just whatever the max tile health is. You're convincing me to change it, hahaha.
Oh no, thinking is dangerous.
I didn't alter it at all and have no idea how it works, but you're getting me thinking...
Nonsense. What happened to all that vertical jinking. You were the one who brought up all the "The Map is 2D, but the real world is 3D" thing :P
Starsector is 2D, but beams are from a 3D world, and applying I = I0/x^2 penetration scaling led to mining drones popping destroyers just bumping them, which was ridiculous both because they couldn't actually get that close and because the lasers didn't have that much power behind them. So, I had to come up with my own laser damage equation, I = I0 / (1 + (x/I0)^2), which approximates inverse square diffraction at range but quickly flattens to I0 at x = 0.
Fun fact: this equation has an analytical inverse, but the sum of two terms of it D = I + E, where the diffracted EMP per second E = E0 / (1 + (x/E0)^2), does not. I will have to invert it numerically.
Also, have you considered reducing the armor penetration of a projectile based on its time in flight? This would represent ships dynamically angling themselves up or down as they attempt to jink. That said, this might make armor a little too strong. Maybe you could make HE guns fire HESH shells, which largely don't care about impact angle?
Also, there are a couple weapons that realistically should ignore impact angle. Most projectile energy weapons, for example the antimatter blaster and plasma cannon, fire what are essentially omnidirectional contact-fused bombs, which definitely don't care about impact angle. The Tachyon Lance, which is described as a charged particle stream more akin to a lightning bolt than a laser, the Mjolnir, which shoots mini singularity shells, and all slow moving HE projectiles e.g Piranha bombs, heavy/light mortar shells - these all probably shouldn't care about impact angle.
True enough. Mostly wanted to know what the rules were "Right Now", even if it changed, because intuition pump. I don't know what weapons are altered or why yet.
Yea. I did some thinking on it. Since vanilla, obviously, lacks any "Shield Armor" thing, aside from shield Efficiency, you would have to add something for it. Also, rapidfire weapons have always had a larger proportional effect on shields compared to armor, so having a penetration-damage thing might not work the best.
Arbritrarilly decided, any hits at a 22.5 degree angle are fully effective, rest are deflected. Multiply angle by Efficiency, then Divide by Current/maxflux ratio. So high efficiency shields require straighter hits, and as flux increases, the restriction is loosened again.
You could also probably do something with shield radius, flux capacity, and weapon damage, but honestly, It would be complex to give something useful, when I just want projectiles bouncing off of the side of shield bubbles. XD
Also Storm needler and machinegun and similar weapons intended to take down shields rely on the fact that shields don't have flat DR, so any penetration-based deflection would be problematic.
I believe that Salamanders have a script telling them to approach, orbit around to the back, then steer into the engines. They have a set orbit radius, and that is static, not based on speed/manuverability. As such, if the ratio between maneuverability and speed increases, the smallest possible orbit increases in size, and the salamander just gets stuck in an orbit. It doesn't know how to take a larger orbit to give it time to turn, so it keeps aiming at the ground and missing.... I mean the frigate.
Gunny battles had the Salamander specifically have quad speed and manuverability, (and double range), while all other missiles had quad speed, double manuverabiliy, and double range. Archean order's Bolo missiles may or may not have that problem solved, I dunno.
Exactly. Except it was more like, Thumper. 100 damage, 25 penertration. Exactly enough to breach a Talon's full armor, at 25. Except no, it only gets a partial penetration. Which, being frag, is still hilariously lethal, because frag deals ~8x as much damage as anything else because frag already has 2-3x damage, and then you added another 4x modifier.
Also, 50 damage, or rather 50 penetration can NEVER damages a 750 armor rating. 750/15 is 50, so partial penetration is also impossible. Which, honestly, I am now fine with, now that I've played around with things a decent amount, and have a good grasp on the basic mechanics.
losive.
Yea. Frag, honestly, is king right now, because frag weapons tend to have 2-3x damage, which in vanilla is countered by the 1/4th damage mod against anything but hull. Here, Frag hits that would slowly ablate vanilla armor tear into compartments and deal comparable damage to citadel hits. So frag damage hitting compartments can easily shred lighter frigates. Thumper is blocked at 375 armor, but that is above the frigate average. The Flak cannon, assuming it is still 200 damage and the AOE isn't actually a thing, is trumped at 750 armor, and deals 80 damage per hit, which, admittedly, isn't as ridiculous as thumper's own 5 hits of 40 per second. No wonder frigates pop so quickly.
The Assault chaingun is in a similar tier, with 75 damage, Penetration of 56 and 840 armor, and deals 112 or 11 damage per hit, 6.6 per second, for ~660 or ~66 dps. compared to Thumper's 200. Only the Assault Chaingun being able to pierce all frigate armor, and some destroyer armor really enhances it. Which is certainly a thing.
I suppose this might all be intended, but at least in vanilla, Frag weapons were extremely ineffective against armor that even somewhat outclassed them. You had to either hit very light frigates, strip with other weapons, or hose them down for quite some time.
Same difference, Right? I mean, a 100 damage weapon having 100/4=25 penetration vs 25 armor, or a 100 damage weapon having 100 penetrationg vs 25x4=100 armor.
Try the first mission. I always use that when trying a balance mod, as well as a bunch of the others. Most of your starting weapons can't even touch the mule, because it's 650 armor is just too strong. Only the Assault chaingun on your wingman can function, but his thumper murders you. Of course, your wingman is immune, but the machineguns cause a long grind til he retreats, if you manage your shield correctly.
Yea. Dividing by a nice neat 16 makes all the computer nerds happy. On the other hand, only a smaller number of ship end up with a round number matching weapon damage when outer armor divides by 15, so maybe maybe not.
Oh no, thinking is dangerous.
But in seriousness, I think that compartment damage, expecially when compartments are intact, should deal extra localized weapon damage, which I think has to be Ionic to work. (or it is EMP? Been playing FTL reciently)
Once compartments are depleted, assume controls have been rerouted or w.e, so the damage bonus goes away.
weird.
Nonsense. What happened to all that vertical jinking. You were the one who brought up all the "The Map is 2D, but the real world is 3D" thing :P
I think you said it maxes range at 10% damage dealt, which occurs at 3x ?Standard? range, so presumably you then have the following
0 = 100%
0.5 = 80%
1 = 50%
1.5 = 30.8%
2 = 20%
2.5 = 13.8%
3 = 10%
Why does the Dynamic range effect beam weapons, when they kinda sorta have instant travel time and perfect accuracy?
Ah. Understood. Refire delay is standard cooldown, and burst delay is for multishot volly fire stuff.
Projectile weapons: longer range, higher muzzle velocity.
-Cannons (i.e., refire delay above threshold): Burst size limited to barrel number, burst delay removed, flux removed if ballistic
-Autocannons: Refire delay changed to burst delay if any, flux replaced with ammo limit added if ballistic
Launchers: longer range, higher speed, greater maneuverability, less so if torpedoes
Lasers: Ridiculous beam speed
Quite possibly. Put it on the longterm pile, needs more thought I imagine.
Ok, so maybe this isn't a good design direction.
Well, its not that clearcut. The Vulcan cannon has massive ROF, which also gives it massive DPS for a small weapon.
Oooooh. I had thought that frag weapons just had higher rates of fire. They do more damage per shot? I'll need to dial back the damage multiplier.
Eh, its your mod, and it can go either way. Do you want perfect shots to penetrate if the weapon is just barely strong enough, or do you want armor to be just barely strong enough to bounce the hit? And honestly, unless you go with 1/16th outer armor, it probably won't happen as oten
Ok... if you say so... I just don't wanna make it confusing for people and have been reading about normalization in LRP / EFP cases and thinking that RC needs it!
Oooooooh. Oh no. This needs fixing pronto.Indeed. Still hilarious though. And given the general Dynamite tag feel, it is pretty cool, but I don't think that was quite the level of instakill you had in mind.
110 damage vs 1000 armor, kinetic damage give your 0.67 factor. 110/0.67~=164.2. 1000 armor, or 1000*0.67 = 670 armor.
110 damage vs 1000 armor still partially penetrates whether multiplied by 0.67 or not, but multiplying the armor by 1/0.67 will make it bounce completely. Also, I got the multipliers from looking at Steel Beasts armor thicknesses.
Yea. Heavy armor protects against the thumper, and I find that the SpeedUp mod, if you enable Bullettime in the config, makes it quite easy to see what is going on.
I've tried the first mission and just never noticed that myself. I guess I didn't grasp what was happening.
Sounds about right.
Pfft, just wait until I make the compartments an even fraction of the hull. That is, if there were 33 compartments and 875 hull, each compartment would have... 26.5151515151515151...
Probably need to explain better.
This makes my head hurt. What?
Hmm. I think setting it to just stop at 10% effectiveness would make more sense, because while excessive range could be useful, the extreme lack of efficiency hurts and makes them less useful.
No, it maxes range at 10 flat dps right now. It will max range at some configurable factor of flux efficiency: that is, where the sum of the diffracted DPS and diffracted EMP divided by the flux per second is for example 0.1.
Because Alex didn't add a function that just affects energy projectile weapons, and I just discovered that I have to apply the one that affects all energy weapons first and then reset beam weapon range. :-\Ouch. Makes sense though.
Ah. Understood. Refire delay is standard cooldown, and burst delay is for multishot volly fire stuff.
Presumably Launchers also have their reload removed and ammo counts tweaked.
So Cannons have low ROF, and no windup, while autocannons have the higher ROF, and have limited ammo that regenerates.
And neither ballistic use flux? That doesn't match ingame, so probably misunderstood.
Quite possibly. Put it on the longterm pile, needs more thought I imagine.
Well, its not that clearcut. The Vulcan cannon has massive ROF, which also gives it massive DPS for a small weapon.
But Flak Cannon hits for 200 and fires pretty slowly, and the Thumper hits for 100 with excessive DPS of 1.2k for its volly, averaging the same 500 as Vulcan cannon. But in vanilla, not only is damage cut to 1/4th, fragmentation damage generally hit the minimum armor damage threshold, and so only did scratch damage to most frigates, or maybe a bit above. Thumper would have done minimum of 5 armor damage per shot to armor as low as 166. So actually, cutting penetration in half might be about right.
Eh, its your mod, and it can go either way. Do you want perfect shots to penetrate if the weapon is just barely strong enough, or do you want armor to be just barely strong enough to bounce the hit? And honestly, unless you go with 1/16th outer armor, it probably won't happen as oten
110 damage vs 1000 armor, kinetic damage give your 0.67 factor. 110/0.67~=164.2. 1000 armor, or 1000*0.67 = 670 armor.
110/670 ~= 162/1000 ~= 16.2%. Plus or minus a few rounding errors.
The two are equivalent, so you can think about it either way. I prefer treating Kinetic as having 150% armor penetration and Explosive having 75% armor penetration, but both ways are equivilent, minus rounding errors. 0.67 isn't exactly 2/3rds, so the reciprical isn't 150%, but ~149.2%
Yea. Heavy armor protects against the thumper, and I find that the SpeedUp mod, if you enable Bullettime in the config, makes it quite easy to see what is going on.
Probably need to explain better.
Normally, I believe, hull damage or EMP damage dealt locally to a Turret or engine will damage said turret or engine and eventually knock it offline.
My thought was to make it so that when damage is dealt to an intact compartment, to inflict bonus damage to local turrets/engines, so long as the compartment is intact.
Once depleted, it loses that bonus.
Lore-ish wise, I assume Compartments are not just spaced armor or something, but actual rooms/room collections, with a bunch of useful stuff in them, so damaging the compartments will also damage electronics and pipes and so on, which normally feed the weapons or engines or w.e. With them destroyed, the local weapons are probably offline, but once repaired they will be re-routed in some way that you need a lot more damage to take them down, because the controls are probably then in command center and it is running on the hardened backup whatevers.
Hmm. I think setting it to just stop at 10% effectiveness would make more sense, because while excessive range could be useful, the extreme lack of efficiency hurts and makes them less useful.
I would probably further limit the range of burst lasers, due to their nature, but that is an exception, and those are to be avoided when feasible.
Could you add an exclusion for Missile rebalance? As in keep the speed, range, and maneuverability, but not the Ammo changes?
I'm current using a slightly different penetator/damage map.
Kinetic is unchanged, 0.66:0.5
Explosive is 1:1
Frag is 8:2
Also, you might want to look into Advanced Gunnery Control (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=21280.0) as it seems to control whether weapons are allowed to fire or not. Should be able to ensure weapons don't fire at targets they have no hope of damaging. Though admittedly shells bouncing off it always fun.
I kind of wish Explosively formed penetrators and flak also bounced, even if they self-destruct after a half-second or something. Kinda same for beams and energy bolts, but that is probably a bit complex.
Also, suggest the indicator diamonds include a momentum indicator for your ship.
Also also suggest adding tiny indicator diamonds for small projectiles to increase visibility.
Ohhhhhh, I see. Turret barbettes would be part of the citadel, though.
Makes sense. My model of your model (I think?) was wrong then, so that change doesn't really work.
Compartments are all the non-essential stuff: sleeping quarters, docking equipment, sensors, etc. None of them is necessary alone, but reducing a ship to a bald ball of armor would render it ineffective.
So at 10% flux efficiency? Because that does make a bit more sense, I think.
I prefer to use efficiency rather than raw effectiveness because some lasers are cheaper to fire than others.
Wut? Its burst lazors that are likely to waste their shots.
I just buff continuous lasers a bunch to make up for it! :D
Well, Fix it. :P
I did it to prevent the swarming missile spam that prevailed in earlier versions, especially from large launchers. The point-defense missile launcher was one egregious offender.
I would write the "penetrate 25x4=100 armor" as "100/4=25 armor" because the conclusion there implies it penetrates 100 armor, rather than 25.
I got the explosive armor/damage numbers from Steel Beasts, so I won't change those, but I will change frag to 4x armor thickness, 2x damage. Note that 2x damage applies after penetration rather than before, so a 100 damage frag hit could penetrate 25x4=100 armor and would deal 200 damage.
Yea. I mean, they would be tiny diamond with the projectile inscribed inside, Red or green, so you can see who owns projectiles (minor) and see the extremely high speed machineguns, or thumper rounds even when zoomed out, and don't end up wondering what exactly cored your ship.
Errr, you mean for bullets? That could get awfully crowded, but I see your point.
Wut? Its burst lazors that are likely to waste their shots.
Well, Fix it. :P
In all seriousness, With point defense buffed massively, because of massive range, Rockets and Torpedos have trouble getting through, and some, like the Swarmer, have significantly less ammo, which given their role of pressuring frigates is kinda problematic. Annilator rocket pods are dumbfire, meaning kinetics, probably, have full range, and again their power largely comes from them being zero-flux with a large magazine. The lack of accuracy is also problematic.
I would write the "penetrate 25x4=100 armor" as "100/4=25 armor" because the conclusion there implies it penetrates 100 armor, rather than 25.
And I still think that you need to cut penetration down further. 8x thickness should ensure that fragmentation is strictly fighter and light frigate. 6x maybe. I mean, unless you want thumper to tear frigates apart, in which case, uhm, I suppose?
Yea. I mean, they would be tiny diamond with the projectile inscribed inside, Red or green, so you can see who owns projectiles (minor) and see the extremely high speed machineguns, or thumper rounds even when zoomed out, and don't end up wondering what exactly cored your ship.
Alternatively, projectile trails for tiny, high speed projectiles, though admittedly even the thumper's trail isn't that big, so that isn't ideal. I mainly want contrast with space.
I could have sworn there was a mod that added that, but it was probably a small part of a larger mod, and I can't find it.
Here is a crappy Mockup. Essentially, the same as the Missile reticles, but for the excessively high speed kinetic projectiles which can still murderize you if you don't notice them.Spoiler(https://i.imgur.com/3blk6KL.png)[close]
Well, Burst lasers fire, fire, fire, then have to recharge. If they fire on a distant missile, and due to diffraction, fail to kill it, it has to wait a second or two for more charge to fire again. if it waited for it to get closer, it would have killed said missile.
I don't understand why you think so.
Well, in vanilla, pretty much. Works fine against somewhat armored enemies which have been stripped, but that is still limited to frigates more or less. So yes.
Yeah, I see the point there, though is the Thumper only for PD and paper-armor targets?
The tricky/intensive part would be getting all the projectiles, but it's not impossible.QuoteYea. I suspect there is a flag somewhere to add a reticle, which is enabled for all missiles.
Honestly, it would make more sense as a separate mod though. Just that the various mods with tiny, fast projectiles while the game is zoomed out kinda need it because you can't frikkin see the tiny projectiles.
Well, Burst lasers fire, fire, fire, then have to recharge. If they fire on a distant missile, and due to diffraction, fail to kill it, it has to wait a second or two for more charge to fire again. if it waited for it to get closer, it would have killed said missile.
Regular Beams are continuous, and so, while the intensity increases as the target gets closer, it is only wasting flux with inefficient hits, not ammo.
Well, in vanilla, pretty much. Works fine against somewhat armored enemies which have been stripped, but that is still limited to frigates more or less. So yes.
Yea. I suspect there is a flag somewhere to add a reticle, which is enabled for all missiles.
Honestly, it would make more sense as a separate mod though. Just that the various mods with tiny, fast projectiles while the game is zoomed out kinda need it because you can't frikkin see the tiny projectiles.
As a major tank nerd that has poured an unknown amount of time into learning how vehicle ammunition and armor types interact and can be used to counter each other and even writing multiple reports on my findings, I find the ballistics portion of this mod very interesting; not once have I felt the need to add realism to StarSector, but after seeing this mod its made me curious how it would feel, especially considering I'm so used to the normal way weapons and armor function. Aside from the ballistic and armor mechanic changes, I have to say I really enjoy the HUD changes. Having a proper radar will save me from bumbling around with my fleet looking for the last ship that some how managed to not get destroyed in the initial furball and I really like the idea with the ship markers to display shields and hull better at a glance, rather than using R to select a target or reading the respective bars next to the vessel when you mouse over them.
I'll definitely be trying out your mod and it's changes in my new playthrough, and even if I don't enjoy the weapon/ship changes, at least I can use its cool UI changes.
english is not my main language.
just created an account to comment.
1. I really enjoy how this mod makes battles and loadouts diferent, and i believe it has the potencial to be one of the best mods out there.
2. the ion beam has a range of 10. link: https://ibb.co/MCv25h0
Skill Affected Features
Impact Mitigation -25% armor damageA few ways to handle this type of modifier.
Damage Control -25% Hull Damage, At most once every 2 seconds, single-hit hull damage above 500 points has the portion above 500 reduced by 60%Doesn't seem like this needs altered at all. This would only really effect Citadel hits, and work just like vanilla overall.
Field Modulation -15% damage taken by shieldsOr this. Shields are currently uneffected.
Point Defense +50% damage to fighters, +50% damage to missilesI assume this one is because +50% damage may or may not effect penetration. I think give it the full damage, but 10-20% of the penetration, so it deals 150% damage with 110% or 120% penetration.
Target Analysis +10% damage to destroyers, +15% damage to cruisers, +20% damage to capital ships, +100% damage to weapons and enginesSame deal here.
Ballistic Mastery +10% Ballistic Weapon Damage, +10% Ballistic Weapon Range, +33% ballistic projectile speedFor Range, just use that as a projectile speed and beam fallover scaler. Damage as above.
Missile Specialisation +100% missile weapon ammo capacity, +50% missile hitpoints, +50% rate of fire for missile weapons, +10% Missile DamageSame damage again.
Tactical Drills +5% weapon damage for combat ships (maximum: 5%) Maximum at 240 or less total combat ship deployment point cost
Wolfpack Tactics +20% damage to ships larger than frigates if frigate, +10% damage to capital ships and cruisers if destroyer/^\
Fighter Uplink +20% top speed (maximum: 20%),Hmm. Given perfect target leading accuracy is universal, Unsure what to do here. My first thought is to, essentially, add jink resistance, as in you predict how they will jink, but that doesn't really work with the model you are using.
+50% target leading accuracy (maximum: 50%), Maximum at 8 or less fighter bays Effect increased by 1.5x for ships with offcers, including flagship
Gunnery Implants +100% target leading accuracy for autofiring weapons, +15% ballistic and energy weapon range, 25% weapon recoil/^\
Energy Weapon Mastery Energy weapons deal up to +30% damage at close range, based on the firing ship's flux level. Full bonus damage at 600 range and below, no bonus damage at 1000 range and above/^\
Polarized Armor Maximum damage reduction by armor increased from 85% to 90%, Up to +50% armor for damage reduction calculation only, based on current hard flux level, EMP damage taken reduced by up to 50%, based on current hard flux level[/tdI think I would have this, again, mostly effect the outer armor, but also maybe reduce damage transfered through Compartments.
Hullmods I'll have to rework these hullmods because replacing the damage model has affected one or more of their features.
Hullmod Affected Features
High Scatter Amplifier Beam weapons deal 10% more damage and deal hard flux to shields. Reduces the portion of the range of beam weapons that is above 200 units by 50%. The base range is affected.Aside from probably needing to scale the Flat 200, range adjustment for beams is just a scalar. Falloff faster.
Integrated Targeting Unit Extends the range of ballistic and energy weapons by 10/20/40/60 percent, depending on hull size. Can not work in conjunction with Dedicated Targeting Core.
Dedicated Targeting Core Increases the range of ballistic and energy weapons by 35/50 percent for cruisers/capital ships.Adjust beam falloff,and increase projectile speed proportionally.
Ballistic Rangefinder If the largest Ballistic slot on the ship is large: increases the base range of small weapons in Ballistic slots by 200, and of medium weapons by 100, up to a maximum of 900 range. Otherwise: increases the base range of small weapons in Ballistic slots by 100, up to 800 maximum. Does not affect point-defense weapons or Ballistic weapons placed in Composite, Hybrid or Universal slots. Hybrid weapons in Ballistic slots recieve double the bonus. Non-PD Hybrid weapons in ballistic slots, including large ones, will recieve 100 bonus range, subject to the maximum, in cases where other weapons of the same size would recieve no bonus./^\
[Skills and hullmods]
I see that Safety overrides just gives stat boosts now, rather than screwing with range, which does make sense.
Missile ammo is good now. Thanks.
Just need those annilator rockets to have the enhanced accuracy required for their range, because as is, they are pretty much CQC weapons, to the point of melee. Which, admittedly, is how they are in vanilla, but the larger intended ranges makes that a bit harder. and more suicidal.
Latest version, Beams still don't extend full range when targeting, say, fighters.
So I've run into a bit of a roadblock. I've been trying for the last few hours to get this mod to work alongside my other mods, even cutting them down to just what is necessary (such as magiclib and the like) but unless I run the game with only RC enabled, the game will fail to boot. It loads normally and there are minimal errors/warnings in the log until the bar fills and my mouse curser turns into a loading wheel and will load infinitely until closing the program. The final error message on the log when this happens is as follows:
350702 [Thread-3] ERROR ProxyTools - Throwable from method named 'getProjectileSpeed'
java.lang.invoke.WrongMethodTypeException: cannot convert MethodHandle(N,MutableShipStatsAPI,WeaponAPI)float to (WeaponSpecAPI)float
at java.lang.invoke.MethodHandle.asTypeUncached(MethodHandle.java:775)
at java.lang.invoke.MethodHandle.asType(MethodHandle.java:761)
at java.lang.invoke.Invokers.checkGenericType(Invokers.java:321)
at proxies.ProjectileWeaponSpecProxy.getProjectileSpeed(ProjectileWeaponSpecProxy.java:129)
at scripts.WeaponStats.modifyProjectileWeaponSpec(WeaponStats.java:132)
at scripts.WeaponStats.modifyWeaponSpec(WeaponStats.java:209)
at plugins.ModPlugin.modifyAllWeaponSpecs(ModPlugin.java:92)
at plugins.ModPlugin.modifySpecs(ModPlugin.java:109)
at plugins.ModPlugin.onApplicationLoad(ModPlugin.java:115)
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.ResourceLoaderState.init(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
Additionally, I went into the mods config file and disabled the total conversion tag but this didn't seem to make a difference outside of the mod loader itself.
So I've run into a bit of a roadblock. I've been trying for the last few hours to get this mod to work alongside my other mods, even cutting them down to just what is necessary (such as magiclib and the like) but unless I run the game with only RC enabled, the game will fail to boot. It loads normally and there are minimal errors/warnings in the log until the bar fills and my mouse curser turns into a loading wheel and will load infinitely until closing the program. The final error message on the log when this happens is as follows:
350702 [Thread-3] ERROR ProxyTools - Throwable from method named 'getProjectileSpeed'
java.lang.invoke.WrongMethodTypeException: cannot convert MethodHandle(N,MutableShipStatsAPI,WeaponAPI)float to (WeaponSpecAPI)float
at java.lang.invoke.MethodHandle.asTypeUncached(MethodHandle.java:775)
at java.lang.invoke.MethodHandle.asType(MethodHandle.java:761)
at java.lang.invoke.Invokers.checkGenericType(Invokers.java:321)
at proxies.ProjectileWeaponSpecProxy.getProjectileSpeed(ProjectileWeaponSpecProxy.java:129)
at scripts.WeaponStats.modifyProjectileWeaponSpec(WeaponStats.java:132)
at scripts.WeaponStats.modifyWeaponSpec(WeaponStats.java:209)
at plugins.ModPlugin.modifyAllWeaponSpecs(ModPlugin.java:92)
at plugins.ModPlugin.modifySpecs(ModPlugin.java:109)
at plugins.ModPlugin.onApplicationLoad(ModPlugin.java:115)
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.ResourceLoaderState.init(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
Additionally, I went into the mods config file and disabled the total conversion tag but this didn't seem to make a difference outside of the mod loader itself.
I had this problem until this morning. I believe liral released an unannounced patch and it's fixed in the new version
So I've run into a bit of a roadblock. I've been trying for the last few hours to get this mod to work alongside my other mods, even cutting them down to just what is necessary (such as magiclib and the like) but unless I run the game with only RC enabled, the game will fail to boot. It loads normally and there are minimal errors/warnings in the log until the bar fills and my mouse curser turns into a loading wheel and will load infinitely until closing the program. The final error message on the log when this happens is as follows:
350702 [Thread-3] ERROR ProxyTools - Throwable from method named 'getProjectileSpeed'
java.lang.invoke.WrongMethodTypeException: cannot convert MethodHandle(N,MutableShipStatsAPI,WeaponAPI)float to (WeaponSpecAPI)float
at java.lang.invoke.MethodHandle.asTypeUncached(MethodHandle.java:775)
at java.lang.invoke.MethodHandle.asType(MethodHandle.java:761)
at java.lang.invoke.Invokers.checkGenericType(Invokers.java:321)
at proxies.ProjectileWeaponSpecProxy.getProjectileSpeed(ProjectileWeaponSpecProxy.java:129)
at scripts.WeaponStats.modifyProjectileWeaponSpec(WeaponStats.java:132)
at scripts.WeaponStats.modifyWeaponSpec(WeaponStats.java:209)
at plugins.ModPlugin.modifyAllWeaponSpecs(ModPlugin.java:92)
at plugins.ModPlugin.modifySpecs(ModPlugin.java:109)
at plugins.ModPlugin.onApplicationLoad(ModPlugin.java:115)
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.ResourceLoaderState.init(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
Additionally, I went into the mods config file and disabled the total conversion tag but this didn't seem to make a difference outside of the mod loader itself.
I had this problem until this morning. I believe liral released an unannounced patch and it's fixed in the new version
Thanks for the tip, I'll try reinstalling the mod to see if that helps
UPADTE: after deleting and installing the new version of the mod, I got the following fatal message when trying to load the game:
Fatal: java.io.IOException: Unable to load: sounds/ISTL/istlweapons/istl_elctrogun_01.ogg
Cause:Unable to load: sounds/ISTL/istlweapons/istl_electrogun_01.ogg
Check starsector.log for more info.
Final error in the log:
250807 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.RuntimeException: java.io.IOException: Unable to load: sounds/ISTL/istlweapons/istl_electrogun_01.ogg
java.lang.RuntimeException: java.io.IOException: Unable to load: sounds/ISTL/istlweapons/istl_electrogun_01.ogg
at sound.Sound.<init>(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.super.run(Unknown Source)
at java.util.concurrent.ThreadPoolExecutor.runWorker(ThreadPoolExecutor.java:1149)
at java.util.concurrent.ThreadPoolExecutor$Worker.run(ThreadPoolExecutor.java:624)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
Caused by: java.io.IOException: Unable to load: sounds/ISTL/istlweapons/istl_electrogun_01.ogg
at sound.OoOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.o00000(Unknown Source)
... 5 more
Caused by: java.lang.ClassCastException: java.util.HashMap$Node cannot be cast to java.util.HashMap$TreeNode
at java.util.HashMap$TreeNode.moveRootToFront(HashMap.java:1835)
at java.util.HashMap$TreeNode.treeify(HashMap.java:1951)
at java.util.HashMap.treeifyBin(HashMap.java:772)
at java.util.HashMap.putVal(HashMap.java:644)
at java.util.HashMap.put(HashMap.java:612)
... 6 more
Well I figured out the mod that was causing problems and disabled it
and started another playthrough ready to experience the mod, and so far I'm enjoying it, although it definitely takes some getting used to lol. For instance weapon ranges being more or less irrelevant, energy being really powerful for ranged applications (I'm ok with this as it finally gives me a reason to use energy weapons), and the fact that I keep thinking my speed up key is on because of how much faster fights are now.QuoteWhile I'm not complaining at all, I have run into a couple bugs: I'm not sure if this applies to all modded weapons, but it seems that some built into weapons don't update to the new ranges. I play with Arma Armatura religiously and the built in arms for the vessels work like vanilla, while the weapons you can mount take on the new values. But oddly, and hilariously, the laser swords are super busted; they have the same range as regular energy weapons with this mod but can swing rapidly and just eviscerates ships before they can really hurt you.
Ok, that is hilarious and definitely odd because I had long-ago added to code to cover built-in weapons. I have a funny feeling that Arma Armatura does some weird stuff with modules because, if the built-in weapons were mounted directly to the hull of the little Arma fighters, then my code should pick them up when it iterates through all the ship specs and modifies their built-in weapons.Built-in Weapon Modification LoopCodefor (ShipHullSpecAPI shipHullSpec : Global.getSettings().getAllShipHullSpecs())
for (String weaponSpecId : shipHullSpec.getBuiltInWeapons().values()) {
if (idsOfModifiedWeaponSpecs.contains(weaponSpecId)) continue;
WeaponSpecAPI weaponSpec = Global.getSettings().getWeaponSpec(weaponSpecId);
WeaponStats.modifyWeaponSpec(weaponSpec);
idsOfModifiedWeaponSpecs.add(weaponSpecId);
if (weaponSpec.getProjectileSpec() instanceof MissileSpecAPI) {
MissileSpecAPI missileSpec = (MissileSpecAPI) weaponSpec.getProjectileSpec();
String id = missileSpec.getHullSpec().getHullId();
if (idsOfModifiedMissileSpecs.contains(id)) continue;
WeaponStats.modifyEngineSpec(WeaponStats.isTorpedo(missileSpec)
? TORPEDO_LAUNCHER : MISSILE_LAUNCHER,
missileSpec.getHullSpec().getEngineSpec());
idsOfModifiedMissileSpecs.add(id);
}
}[close]QuoteVery impressive mod so far, and it definitely gives battles a new feeling
Awwww... thanks! :D I feel proud that you're impressed and glad that it gives battles a new feeling.
Hello, I looked at the mod, saw the effect on the armor and a question arose.
How does this mod interact with ships with this armor?
Especially considering that in a future patch we will have an Invictus dreadnought with similar armor.Spoiler(https://sun9-14.userapi.com/impg/d0zEPLGwjJlYEqRWQIs6cvFFnsA5uP3KwwndBQ/sDuH1RG3AvY.jpg?size=839x464&quality=95&sign=f789ec3f2bb2e801af12f040f272a104&type=album)[close]
The ship/rock has 12500 "base" armor
In the test battle, the paragon had only partial penetrations with tachyon lances (at close range) and reapers. Onslaught just couldn't dig through the armor
Working as intended! Planetoids and ships with enormously thick armor should require torpedoes or large, heavy cannons to penetrate. Try the Gauss Cannon: the cannon damage buffs should let it partially penetrate the planetoid from extreme range with no ammo limit or PD vulnerability.
Working as intended! Planetoids and ships with enormously thick armor should require torpedoes or large, heavy cannons to penetrate. Try the Gauss Cannon: the cannon damage buffs should let it partially penetrate the planetoid from extreme range with no ammo limit or PD vulnerability.
Well, 250-300 (in total!) damage from two gauss guns.
Not impressive. Shooters like this at 40,000hp can be ignored.
With a number of hull mods, the armor can be overclocked to ~40000.
This is not all, some can only be in the company and with skills.
Gausses do no damage at all.Spoiler(https://sun9-5.userapi.com/impg/qRD3C8q9q2Q3TKe9LNXH_XU9PSG7rnHDKkg1dQ/C1aJii7a7mc.jpg?size=549x527&quality=95&sign=b7df80383b2b2cc5c773035c1728f2c2&type=album)[close]
Well I figured out the mod that was causing problems and disabled it
That's good news! I want to know which mod it was because I'm very surprised by this incompatibility.Quoteand started another playthrough ready to experience the mod, and so far I'm enjoying it, although it definitely takes some getting used to lol. For instance weapon ranges being more or less irrelevant, energy being really powerful for ranged applications (I'm ok with this as it finally gives me a reason to use energy weapons), and the fact that I keep thinking my speed up key is on because of how much faster fights are now.QuoteWhile I'm not complaining at all, I have run into a couple bugs: I'm not sure if this applies to all modded weapons, but it seems that some built into weapons don't update to the new ranges. I play with Arma Armatura religiously and the built in arms for the vessels work like vanilla, while the weapons you can mount take on the new values. But oddly, and hilariously, the laser swords are super busted; they have the same range as regular energy weapons with this mod but can swing rapidly and just eviscerates ships before they can really hurt you.
Ok, that is hilarious and definitely odd because I had long-ago added to code to cover built-in weapons. I have a funny feeling that Arma Armatura does some weird stuff with modules because, if the built-in weapons were mounted directly to the hull of the little Arma fighters, then my code should pick them up when it iterates through all the ship specs and modifies their built-in weapons.Built-in Weapon Modification LoopCodefor (ShipHullSpecAPI shipHullSpec : Global.getSettings().getAllShipHullSpecs())
for (String weaponSpecId : shipHullSpec.getBuiltInWeapons().values()) {
if (idsOfModifiedWeaponSpecs.contains(weaponSpecId)) continue;
WeaponSpecAPI weaponSpec = Global.getSettings().getWeaponSpec(weaponSpecId);
WeaponStats.modifyWeaponSpec(weaponSpec);
idsOfModifiedWeaponSpecs.add(weaponSpecId);
if (weaponSpec.getProjectileSpec() instanceof MissileSpecAPI) {
MissileSpecAPI missileSpec = (MissileSpecAPI) weaponSpec.getProjectileSpec();
String id = missileSpec.getHullSpec().getHullId();
if (idsOfModifiedMissileSpecs.contains(id)) continue;
WeaponStats.modifyEngineSpec(WeaponStats.isTorpedo(missileSpec)
? TORPEDO_LAUNCHER : MISSILE_LAUNCHER,
missileSpec.getHullSpec().getEngineSpec());
idsOfModifiedMissileSpecs.add(id);
}
}[close]QuoteVery impressive mod so far, and it definitely gives battles a new feeling
Awwww... thanks! :D I feel proud that you're impressed and glad that it gives battles a new feeling.
The mod in question was named ZZ Audio Plus in the games mod manager, I'm not sure why it was disagreeing with your mod in particular however.
And as for the ArmaA stuff, idk about the built in guns, but I think for the swords the mod author likely just took a normal laser, shortened it's range to something reasonable then made it so when the AI "fires" the sword, they swing it at the same time. So technically it's not a melee weapon, but a sweeping laser weapon. But this is just a guess based mostly on how source engine games make melee weapons
40,000 HP and 40,000 armor! :o I guess if you make the numbers big enough, then nothing can get through. I hope that this won't make the Invictus ridiculous come the patch.
Very interesting mod. Completely changes the feeling of the game.
So far this mod just comes across as very experimental the weapons ranges are all over the place most weapons are obsolete. And for obvious reasons most the ships perform like the ones i drew at age 5 thrown into the universe of the expanse.
As it stands this mod functions a lot like the castle federation where the biggest ship is king and cruisers destroyers and smaller ships except fighters are all just older capital ships that are obsolete. In the castle federation universe the size of capital ships is controlled by the size of the biggest warp bubble. So if the warp bubble can be made bigger the ships can be made bigger making older vessels obsolete on paper. Its a good audio book i can recommend to anyone here. What makes fighters and those aforementioned "obsolete" craft work in that universe is electronic warfare the fact that modern ships are very expensive high thrust to mass ratio on fighters and some physics shenanigans.
Something similar could make this mod a lot more useful. I mean, holograms during combat could make targeting at long ranges difficult and give use fog of war back. I believe that something similar is used to explain why Star Wars combat takes place at such short ranges.
Maybe the drive field distorts local space cloaking ships at longer ranges explaining why the campaign map is not fully visible with light lag distorting the actual positions (could also be a fun mod) and making ships harder to target at longer ranges which is supplemented in universe by electronic warfare (plus hullmods active systems etc). Some ships will remain problematic but that might be a step in the right direction in my opinion. Who is to say what steps will be done in electronic warfare in the next 500 years.
To sum this all up as it stands now most weapons and ships are obsolete and should be removed because it would be odd to encounter an expensive fleet made up of useless ships that are supposed to be a thread and just aren't. Cutting down the number of ships could give the game a expanse like feel with purpose build sluggers phase ships that try to close the gap funny active systems and hull mods and maybe even small crafts. Or something that give most ships a purpose again could be introduced.
Those are just my thoughts after trying the mods on some pitched battles. Feel free to disregard if i dont make sense.
Not exactly sure if i have seen this yet so i post it here the combat readiness just evaporates even on capital ships.
Very interesting mod. Completely changes the feeling of the game.
Thank you! I appreciate everyone who plays the mod!QuoteSo far this mod just comes across as very experimental the weapons ranges are all over the place most weapons are obsolete. And for obvious reasons most the ships perform like the ones i drew at age 5 thrown into the universe of the expanse.
As it stands this mod functions a lot like the castle federation where the biggest ship is king and cruisers destroyers and smaller ships except fighters are all just older capital ships that are obsolete. In the castle federation universe the size of capital ships is controlled by the size of the biggest warp bubble. So if the warp bubble can be made bigger the ships can be made bigger making older vessels obsolete on paper. Its a good audio book i can recommend to anyone here. What makes fighters and those aforementioned "obsolete" craft work in that universe is electronic warfare the fact that modern ships are very expensive high thrust to mass ratio on fighters and some physics shenanigans.
Something similar could make this mod a lot more useful. I mean, holograms during combat could make targeting at long ranges difficult and give use fog of war back. I believe that something similar is used to explain why Star Wars combat takes place at such short ranges.
Maybe the drive field distorts local space cloaking ships at longer ranges explaining why the campaign map is not fully visible with light lag distorting the actual positions (could also be a fun mod) and making ships harder to target at longer ranges which is supplemented in universe by electronic warfare (plus hullmods active systems etc). Some ships will remain problematic but that might be a step in the right direction in my opinion. Who is to say what steps will be done in electronic warfare in the next 500 years.
To sum this all up as it stands now most weapons and ships are obsolete and should be removed because it would be odd to encounter an expensive fleet made up of useless ships that are supposed to be a thread and just aren't. Cutting down the number of ships could give the game a expanse like feel with purpose build sluggers phase ships that try to close the gap funny active systems and hull mods and maybe even small crafts. Or something that give most ships a purpose again could be introduced.
Those are just my thoughts after trying the mods on some pitched battles. Feel free to disregard if i dont make sense.
Not exactly sure if i have seen this yet so i post it here the combat readiness just evaporates even on capital ships.
Sounds like you're saying that small ships don't feel good enough and that many weapons feel too weak?
You summed it up nicely. The one thing i would add is that it feels like i am doing nothing because ships in relation to the muzzle velocity just sit around, in children of a dead earth which is very similar to your mod ships get to maneuver due to the high combat ranges and possible high thrust designs which makes tactics during the engagement possible again. That game has its own problems and not few of them but it feels like i am doing more in combat in that game.
You summed it up nicely. The one thing i would add is that it feels like i am doing nothing because ships in relation to the muzzle velocity just sit around, in children of a dead earth which is very similar to your mod ships get to maneuver due to the high combat ranges and possible high thrust designs which makes tactics during the engagement possible again. That game has its own problems and not few of them but it feels like i am doing more in combat in that game.
I'm surprised that you find CoADE to have more maneuvering! SC:RC ships have tremendous acceleration compared to CoADE ships.
The basegame ships are in fact even less maneuverable than starsector ships, but using only vanilla game materials, functional combat ships with relativly high thrust and 50 km/s muzzel velocity weapons can be designed. The guns them self are very adept at targeting missiles due to their high velocity and anything that isnt just a gigantic laser cant hit them. This makes maneuvers and tactics like splitting up viable hindering the opposing force on dodging. The thing separating both games is either the high muzzle velocity the low ship speed across the board or low engagement range. (It has to be said that only frigates destroyers and maybe cruisers accelerate faster capital ships are quite compareable to base game capital ships.)
To be honest increasing the engagement range will make combat using frigates even more difficult that it is already. There are many path to make this mod more functional (it isnt even unplayable right now) and i am curious on how this will progress.
Something simple that might help (and incidentally is available in CoADE) is an indicator of the targeted ships suspected weapon range. With the fog of war not being a thing at all in this mod certain assumptions could be made. The first salvos could have an unknown weapons range with the complete laodout of the enemy or an default weapons range that adjust after the real range is known. Certain weapons types could be cycled (pd anti armor anti shield). This all would probably be a lot of work to program so with the enemys weapon ranges for some reason being know in the base game, an argument could be made for showing the targets weapon ranges on the hud.
I was reading through the mod page again, specifically with the image you made to show some of the mod's features and explain armor and projectiles and I have a question about the line "It stays as strong against the last hit as the first". Does this mean that you don't include armor fatigue in your armor simulations?
I know armor fatigue generally isn't talked about that often when talking about armored land vehicles, especially things like MBTs facing other MBTs as usually, the first shot IS the last shot, but armor fatigue is still a real thing, especially in naval vessels. In case you or others aren't aware of what this property is, to put it simply, its the idea that the more a single area of armor is struck or penetrated, the less resistant it will be to penetration the next shot; this property is especially important in the application of NERA Composite armor that uses ceramic plates as one of its components as the ceramic can fracture or be destroyed upon penetration or when struck with a strong enough force thus reducing the composite screen's effectiveness.
I don't doubt that this property would be a pain to program as you would have to look at a projectile's velocity upon impact, its damage type and whether or not it penetrated and then calculate the loss in efficiency based on those figures for a countless number of weapons (and maybe even ships if you wanted to include ramming), so I totally understand if you chose not to simulate armor fatigue, but I feel that the armor staying as strong at 15 shells as it did before getting hit at all might not be so realistic. Also if you really wanted to go mad, you could even include an armor's temperature for its resilience as there are literal laser beams hitting a target that would certainly generate tons of heat. Not to mention weapons like flame/plasma throwers added by mods, or omega weapons which use ice for damage (although in theory that would make the face of the armor more strong but maybe the whole thing more brittle past a certain coldness?).
I was reading through the mod page again, specifically with the image you made to show some of the mod's features and explain armor and projectiles and I have a question about the line "It stays as strong against the last hit as the first". Does this mean that you don't include armor fatigue in your armor simulations?
I know armor fatigue generally isn't talked about that often when talking about armored land vehicles, especially things like MBTs facing other MBTs as usually, the first shot IS the last shot, but armor fatigue is still a real thing, especially in naval vessels. In case you or others aren't aware of what this property is, to put it simply, its the idea that the more a single area of armor is struck or penetrated, the less resistant it will be to penetration the next shot; this property is especially important in the application of NERA Composite armor that uses ceramic plates as one of its components as the ceramic can fracture or be destroyed upon penetration or when struck with a strong enough force thus reducing the composite screen's effectiveness.
I don't doubt that this property would be a pain to program as you would have to look at a projectile's velocity upon impact, its damage type and whether or not it penetrated and then calculate the loss in efficiency based on those figures for a countless number of weapons (and maybe even ships if you wanted to include ramming), so I totally understand if you chose not to simulate armor fatigue, but I feel that the armor staying as strong at 15 shells as it did before getting hit at all might not be so realistic. Also if you really wanted to go mad, you could even include an armor's temperature for its resilience as there are literal laser beams hitting a target that would certainly generate tons of heat. Not to mention weapons like flame/plasma throwers added by mods, or omega weapons which use ice for damage (although in theory that would make the face of the armor more strong but maybe the whole thing more brittle past a certain coldness?).
I did not include armor fatigue in my armor simulations because the ArmorGridAPI cells are far too large to consider hits to the same cell to be nearby; for scale, consider that an Abrams turret cheek would be two pixels long and one pixel tall in the Realistic Combat 25cm-per-pixel length scale. Therefore, especially considering that ships also have height, I chose to imagine that every hit from a big, slow-firing weapon lands on another half-turret-cheek armor segment.
Of course, the simulation could be changed to represent the destruction of these segments. If the maximum value of an ArmorGridAPI cell is the thickness of its armor, then its current value could be be decreased by penetrations or near-penetrations depending on the mmRHAe of the penetrator and the in-game area of the cell, the level of which every penetrator could roll against to determine whether it ignores or reduces the armor check by hitting an already-damaged armor segment in the armor cell.
I don't entirely understand your response beyond agreeing that CoADE ships are much less maneuverable than RC ships, CoADE weapons have much higher muzzle velocities than RC weapons, and CoADE engagement ranges are much longer than RC engagement ranges.
I would, but the AI can't handle it. :(And even if they could it would make the early campaign quite boring or very difficult depending on if you autoplay or if you steer yourself. (depending on your prefs. of course)
That's understandable, I figured that simulating this property would cause some problems and even if you treated each cell (or box as they appear to the player) as its own entity, that could complicate things immensely with how many variables would go into it and the shear number of cells you would need to treat
QuoteI don't entirely understand your response beyond agreeing that CoADE ships are much less maneuverable than RC ships, CoADE weapons have much higher muzzle velocities than RC weapons, and CoADE engagement ranges are much longer than RC engagement ranges.
I was trying to explain what made the high velocity weapons work in CoADE. The fact that it is possible to extend the weapon range to a distance that even capital ships can dodge while still having weapons that can deal damage.
To make this short without knowing at a glance how far one has to retreat to get out of weapons range and/or without a re balance in weapon ranges or ship accelerations and max velocity or both, all ships are just sitting ducks spraying each other with weapons fire especially when the player is flying as the ai knows the weapon ranges of the enemy and can maneuver out of them accordingly. If this game where only about capital ships and fighters i would actually be sold an your mod but as it stands anything other than a capital ship or a fighter does not have enough staying power to perform in combat. Any capital ship except the conquest would work. Cruisers that have access to large weapons could work.
The whole point of my comments was to express ideas on how to turn this amazing but in my opinion very game play limiting mod into something more usable and non repetitive for everyday campaigns. This is not my mod but i really start to think an target weapon range indicator could be something that is according to you not to hard to implement and something i would like to test but i am no programmer. If you plan implemented please dont make it a hull mod as the ai already has every advantage above the player with this mod.
Maybe i will warm up to this mod tomorrow.
Ok first bit of actual criticism from me: I understand the idea of of hull damage decreasing a ship's CR, but I feel like it's either unnecessary or at least far too excessive. Players should be punished for poor flux management, sure, but this means overfluxing is basically an instant kill or will at least render that ship inoperable. I know this could be realistic as it could be considered internal modules breaking as a result of penetrations, but I feel like it makes fights severely snowball esq meaning things can go from perfect to terrible in an instant.
At the least I would suggest nerfing the rate at which CR is reduced per amount of damage, at most remove the mechanic (but I feel that might be a bit much and might take away from your vision) an ultimatum could be allowing the player to tweak this via difficulty settings within the mod or adding a tip on the mod page telling you how to tweak it in the respective config.
Other than that, I'm still really enjoying the mod and it's made me actively want to play starsector more as the battles are more interesting and it forces me to play completely different
private static float combatReadinessLimit(ShipAPI ship) {
return RealisticCombatSettings.getCombatReadinessOffset()
/ 2 * ((float) Math.sin(Math.PI * (ship.getHullLevel() - 1/2)) - 1) + 1;
}
Ok first bit of actual criticism from me: I understand the idea of of hull damage decreasing a ship's CR, but I feel like it's either unnecessary or at least far too excessive. Players should be punished for poor flux management, sure, but this means overfluxing is basically an instant kill or will at least render that ship inoperable. I know this could be realistic as it could be considered internal modules breaking as a result of penetrations, but I feel like it makes fights severely snowball esq meaning things can go from perfect to terrible in an instant.
At the least I would suggest nerfing the rate at which CR is reduced per amount of damage, at most remove the mechanic (but I feel that might be a bit much and might take away from your vision) an ultimatum could be allowing the player to tweak this via difficulty settings within the mod or adding a tip on the mod page telling you how to tweak it in the respective config.
Other than that, I'm still really enjoying the mod and it's made me actively want to play starsector more as the battles are more interesting and it forces me to play completely different
I wanted to create a way to mission-kill a ship without blowing it to pieces or riddling it with holes. Combat Readiness is limited to hull level less an offset, which is configurable in the settings under "combatReadinessOffset", with the default value being 10, which makes combat readiness decline once the hull level reaches 80.
I could use a sine function instead:Codeprivate static float combatReadinessLimit(ShipAPI ship) {
return RealisticCombatSettings.getCombatReadinessOffset()
/ 2 * ((float) Math.sin(Math.PI * (ship.getHullLevel() - 1/2)) - 1) + 1;
}
This function is exactly 1 for hullLevel = 1, equals the combat readiness offset for hullLevel = 0, and is ~70% at ~80% hullLevel. It declines even faster than a straight line from (0.7, 1) to (0, 0.1) though. I could also try a sigmoid function!
I like the idea of a mission kill, but I don't really know if it makes sense in starsectors combat as the combat typically isn't over until one fleet or the other is destroyed or has retreated. Perhaps if you added in a mechanic that allowed mission killed ships to be easier to salvage or you could get them with less overall damage (keeping more of the weapons, crew, hull armor, etc that they had equipped) or even setting it so that once a vessel has reached zero CR, it auto retreats instantly so that it's not accidentally destroyed and is added to the salvage screen post battle.
These are just a couple ideas since I'm truly clueless on coding and had no idea about what those functions meant lol but regardless of how you go about this, I'm excited to see what you do next with the mod and appreciate your enthusiasm
I appreciate your encouragement, but coding just isn't for me lol I don't do too well at repetition over several hours, troubleshooting my PC and mods is enough of a headache for me.
I worry that simply ordering the AI to retreat at zero CR wouldn't work out too well as the vessel would barely be able to move if at all. So what I was thinking is that if a vessel reaches zero CR, have the game treat it as though they have reached the retreat line and remove them from the battle; or cheat and when they reach zero CR, just teleport them to the retreat line and do it that way lol
private static void getFleetSide(ShipAPI ship) {
return ship.getOwner() == 0 || ship.isAlly() ? Fleetside.PLAYER : Fleetside.ENEMY;
}
private static void retreatShip(ShipAPI ship) {
Global.getCombatEngine().getFleetManager().getTaskManager(getFleetSide(ship)).orderRetreat(ship.getDeployedFleetMember(), false, false);
}
private static void retreatLowCRShips() {
for (ShipAPI ship : Global.getCombatEngine().getShips()) {
if (!(ship.isFighter() || ship.isStation()) && ship.getCurrentCR() < RealisticCombatSettings.getCROffset())
retreatShip(ship);
}
}
private static float getCRLimit(ShipAPI ship) {
final float a = 1 / (1 + 1 / RealisticCombatSettings().getCROffset()),
b = (a + 1)(Ship.getHullLevel() - 1);
return Ship.getCRAtDeployment() * (1 - b * b);
}
Most of your starting weapons can't even touch the mule, because it's 650 armor is just too strong. Only the Assault chaingun on your wingman can function, but his thumper murders you.
I found that the Project Tafetta weapon from Tahlan shipwork completely freezes my game with this mod.
When I hit a ship on its armor with that weapon, it spawns an incredible amount of projectiles, which causes the crash.
It's a rare weapon so I don't think this is going to come up often in the game.
I tested this one in the for the greater Ludd mission with the Hammerhead in a simulation and it does this with this mod enabled every time and never without it.
I found that the Project Tafetta weapon from Tahlan shipwork completely freezes my game with this mod.
When I hit a ship on its armor with that weapon, it spawns an incredible amount of projectiles, which causes the crash.
It's a rare weapon so I don't think this is going to come up often in the game.
I tested this one in the for the greater Ludd mission with the Hammerhead in a simulation and it does this with this mod enabled every time and never without it.
I've had this exact problem with a random scavs enforcer that had the weapon, I just didn't know what the weapon was
I was coming to the Mod forum to ask if it was possible to do an armor mod like this one, and here it exists!? What is this sorcery? Really excited to try this mod out. Had a few questions and thoughts.
This is actually a pretty basic balance test that should be addressed. Because no armor is 100% perfect and homogenous, there are always weak spots, joint between plates, viewports, Engine Nacelles, weapons ports, sensors, exhaust ports, manufacturing defects, etc....
The Mule-class is a tough nut to crack, which makes its designation as a combat freighter apt. Pirates will often bypass even a lone Mule and go off in search of easier prey.
Often its captains casually ferry cargo to and fro between the solar systems of the Sector alone and comfortable in the knowledge that they could afford the best protection a freighter captain can hope to get, short of an escort, of course.
Perhaps there should always be a fixed ~5% chance for a critical hit where the projectile bypasses 60% of armor. This would give weaker ships and weapons at least SOME damage which is a little more realistic. A direct hit to the bridge window or a torpedo to the rudder/engine exhaust has a good chance of causing issues no matter how much armor the belt has.
In battleship shellfire AP caps would be designed to dig into a thick armor and rotate to a degree while still delivering the majority of their kinetic energy to armor even at 35-45 degree strike angles. Non AP shells tended to ricochet off at those angles especially when striking non face hardened armor often used on deck and turret roof armor plating. Plus armor is not one smooth surface, there will always be lots of different protrusions so the hit angle is perhaps over-emphasized in calculations.
Do all ships share this exact same Citadel model? It's perhaps too much of a generalization
because frigates and fighters realistically might only have a thin layer of outer armor that would deflect only low caliber projectiles. While the most protected ships, like US Navy CV Lexington class would often have up to layers of 3 torpedo compartments, each capable of blunting most of a 2000 lb he. blast, requiring 3 direct hits to the same area to even have a chance to breach the main armor belt. Big surface ships that well designed could REALLY take punishment, taking 100+ direct hits with bombs or large caliber weapons to sink. Having the largest ships rock 3+ layers of anti missile compartments vs 2 or 1 for smaller ones would be an interesting differentiator and accurate to contemporary armor schemes.
Since there is already an Auto repair damage sub-system, maybe you could allow that to repair damaged compartments armor plating, making the larger ships last longer in battle?
I found that the Project Tafetta weapon from Tahlan shipwork completely freezes my game with this mod.
When I hit a ship on its armor with that weapon, it spawns an incredible amount of projectiles, which causes the crash.
It's a rare weapon so I don't think this is going to come up often in the game.
I tested this one in the for the greater Ludd mission with the Hammerhead in a simulation and it does this with this mod enabled every time and never without it.
A little history first....
In the WWII battle of Leyte Gulf, off Samar, The US Navy's TAFFY 3 Task group comprised of 6 escort carriers, 3 destroyers and 4 destroyer escorts mounted a headlong last stand into the teeth of a superior Japanese force of 11 destroyers, 2 light cruisers, 6 heavy cruisers and 4 battleships led the MASSIVE Yamamoto armed with 18.1" massive cannons. Even being severely outgunned and essentially unarmored ( USN Fletcher class destroyer's nickname was Tin Can) this defensive charge, along with air support from the slow jeep carriers, was very effective. The USN destroyers covered the retreating slow escort carriers, and the IJN fleet reacting to the pounding they were getting from radar guided accurate 5" destroyer shell fire thought they were facing cruisers or battleships, and after 6 cruisers lost or heavily damaged retreated from the battle and steamed back to Japanese ports.
reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_off_Samar
TL;DR USN destroyers outnumbered 6:1 and out massed 20:1+ with 5" guns still defeated a 30 ship fleet and sunk or damaged 7 heavy cruisers.
The point I am getting at here is armor is NOT invulnerability. Hardly everything is contained in the armored citadel. Surface warships in WWII often put ZERO armor on the bow and only armored the sections of the stern containing engine, drivetrain and rudder machinery. Often the main armor belt only started a deck or two below main deck and ran for only the middle of the ship and ended several feet below the waterline. There was thinner deck armor and torpedo bulges elsewhere but the average armor and it's hardness was much much less than the main belt thickness (14-16" for battleships) And even with battleship level armor the ships could and did get damaged by 5" shells and 500 lb bombs. True one or two would hardly disable, with multiple redundant systems for everything important, and it often took 50-100 hits to fully disable a battleship.
Also consider face hardened Armor its the main belt was one VERY expensive, two very very heavy, and three only made at large specialized founderies, and so the tradeoff to making an entire ship say with 16" armor everywhere is the Navy could alternatively make 5 ships the same size but with a more optimized armor scheme that were double the speed. It was an easy choice.
The reason I am bringing this up, is by treating armor as 100% coverage, for the entire ship, the existing vanilla balance is heavily skewed to make armor MUCH more effective than vanilla. Armor used to be treated like hp, scaling linearly, which made even small amounts still useful and large amounts ~linearly more survivable. In Vanilla, the additional effectiveness of a capital ship costing 3-10x vs a smaller combatant, yet likely massing 10-50x with vastly increased complexity, was dubiously balanced at best, but with the changes here, its skewed even more.
By adding deflection and reduced penetration effects and assuming 100% perfect coverage you are making heavy armor MUCH MUCH more effective per an inverse log function of effectiveness, which while more realistic, the side effect is small craft are kind of weak, ****especially***** bc the increased ranges and engagements envelopes mean they can't use their maneuverability to outflank larger opponents as easily. Maneuverability and the the speed to to fly around larger capitals outside of their weapon arcs are one of the few ways something like a Sunder can stay effective in large fleet battles. With the increased engagement ranges, they just can't do that without being popped. To add to that you are taking the linear based damage per hit #'s, using that to determine armor penetration, and putting them into a system that doesn't scale linearly, it's never going balance easily.
I'm very impressed with the mod btw, it seems very very interesting and this is not a critique, just an observation. To do it correctly, each weapon/munition type would need a separate penetration value and each part of ships have variable armor thickness which certainly sounds onerous.
That said, something as simple as giving projectiles a 2% chance to bypass 75% of citadel armor, and having that % increase up to 4x when very close ( modeling aiming for weak points ) might help??
Mission Killing:
I think you are on to something, Perhaps an analouge might be reached by having hits to compartments start to decrease CR very slowly at first, but having it speed up CR loss after 60% of overall compartment hp damage and cap the possible CR loss at max of 65% of total. The rest of the ships CR could reside in the Citadel and this would allow a heavily damaged ship to retire slowly without use of most of it's weapons and if it has heavy armor it would be relatively safe while doing so, but unable to contribute much to the fight. The ship could retreat or repair if it had the right subsystems. This would also encourage interesting tactics where other ships could attempt to screen the crippled vessel while opposing force tries to finish it off.
At least where very large battles are concerned at least, the armor model isn't any apparently different from the vanilla one just due to how fast-paced and frantic combat is. I'm sure there's a lot more stuff going on under the hood but when a Dominator is getting pummeled by a Devastator cannon that looks like an A-10 warthog now and 30 harpoons flying in at lightspeed it's really hard to tell the armor is any different.
Hey, could weapon mount rotation speed be factored in with muzzle velocity for range?
Like, if you had a laser, which of course has ridiculous muzzle velocity, it might be able to instantly zap a fighter, but only if it could aim quickly enough at said fighter.
If you had a massive, non-PD laser for instance, which had a very low rotation speed as it was meant to be used against larger ships, it would make sense that fighter would simply stay too high or too low for it to be able to aim at them, no?
Of course, this becomes less true the further out you get from the axis of a weapon aim arc, just as the ends of spokes on a wheel move faster than the ends near the axis do. But, counting in gunner reaction times and gameplay balance reasons, I'd think this could be included to such a degree as to impact the combat significantly, and nerf lasers a little, if they're too powerful as PD, even when the lasers in question are not PD.
IDK know, this is just a random idea I had. I am not to knowledgeable about physics and math and space combat simulations, so whatever. I have no idea what the state of balance is for this mod, I haven't tried it yet, but this idea came to mind while I read through the comments, deciding whether I'd want to try to play this with every one of the 40 mods I have installed lol.
Oh, also, could I ask why many weapons are said to have a massively increased fire rate?
I haven't tested it so I might like that change, but in case I don't, or if it causes frame lag, is there some toggle for various features of this mod? I think I would like such toggles regardless for other features which I or others might find personally disagreeable.
EDIT: My mistake, I should have read through the whole topic first and changelog. I can see toggles are there.
However, I would still like to know the rationale behind increasing fire rate apparently so much?
Currently it disables a wide range of mods, so I wouldn't advertise it as something that works with all mods.
I also noticed the issue where fighters are now slower than the carrier in some cases - this is an issue with realism in space combat because there isn't any realistic reason to use fighters in zero-g. There is no upper limit on speed for space vessels, so size isn't a factor in speed. The only reason to use fighters would be that a smaller mass is easier to accelerate and a smaller profile is harder to target, but with laser point defence and infinite sub-light fuel these benefits are made moot. Bigger is always better in space, using realistic flight models. Only maneuverability could be claimed as a benefit of a fighter, but given their fragility and the range of all weapon systems maneuverability doesn't really matter.
Expanding on this, a successful citadel hit should massively compromise a ship's ability to fight, given what's usually guarded by the citadel. Conversely, hitting compartments shouldn't really do much beyond somewhat degrade the ship's capabilities. This could be represented by the minor CR decay you mentioned, but right now there's nothing that makes citadel hits more serious other than more damage, and a ship at 1 hp shoots and flies just as well as one at full.A little history first....
In the WWII battle of Leyte Gulf, off Samar, The US Navy's TAFFY 3 Task group comprised of 6 escort carriers, 3 destroyers and 4 destroyer escorts mounted a headlong last stand into the teeth of a superior Japanese force of 11 destroyers, 2 light cruisers, 6 heavy cruisers and 4 battleships led the MASSIVE Yamamoto armed with 18.1" massive cannons. Even being severely outgunned and essentially unarmored ( USN Fletcher class destroyer's nickname was Tin Can) this defensive charge, along with air support from the slow jeep carriers, was very effective. The USN destroyers covered the retreating slow escort carriers, and the IJN fleet reacting to the pounding they were getting from radar guided accurate 5" destroyer shell fire thought they were facing cruisers or battleships, and after 6 cruisers lost or heavily damaged retreated from the battle and steamed back to Japanese ports.
reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_off_Samar
TL;DR USN destroyers outnumbered 6:1 and out massed 20:1+ with 5" guns still defeated a 30 ship fleet and sunk or damaged 7 heavy cruisers.
The point I am getting at here is armor is NOT invulnerability. Hardly everything is contained in the armored citadel. Surface warships in WWII often put ZERO armor on the bow and only armored the sections of the stern containing engine, drivetrain and rudder machinery. Often the main armor belt only started a deck or two below main deck and ran for only the middle of the ship and ended several feet below the waterline. There was thinner deck armor and torpedo bulges elsewhere but the average armor and it's hardness was much much less than the main belt thickness (14-16" for battleships) And even with battleship level armor the ships could and did get damaged by 5" shells and 500 lb bombs. True one or two would hardly disable, with multiple redundant systems for everything important, and it often took 50-100 hits to fully disable a battleship.
Also consider face hardened Armor its the main belt was one VERY expensive, two very very heavy, and three only made at large specialized founderies, and so the tradeoff to making an entire ship say with 16" armor everywhere is the Navy could alternatively make 5 ships the same size but with a more optimized armor scheme that were double the speed. It was an easy choice.
The reason I am bringing this up, is by treating armor as 100% coverage, for the entire ship, the existing vanilla balance is heavily skewed to make armor MUCH more effective than vanilla. Armor used to be treated like hp, scaling linearly, which made even small amounts still useful and large amounts ~linearly more survivable. In Vanilla, the additional effectiveness of a capital ship costing 3-10x vs a smaller combatant, yet likely massing 10-50x with vastly increased complexity, was dubiously balanced at best, but with the changes here, its skewed even more.
By adding deflection and reduced penetration effects and assuming 100% perfect coverage you are making heavy armor MUCH MUCH more effective per an inverse log function of effectiveness, which while more realistic, the side effect is small craft are kind of weak, ****especially***** bc the increased ranges and engagements envelopes mean they can't use their maneuverability to outflank larger opponents as easily. Maneuverability and the the speed to to fly around larger capitals outside of their weapon arcs are one of the few ways something like a Sunder can stay effective in large fleet battles. With the increased engagement ranges, they just can't do that without being popped. To add to that you are taking the linear based damage per hit #'s, using that to determine armor penetration, and putting them into a system that doesn't scale linearly, it's never going balance easily.
I'm very impressed with the mod btw, it seems very very interesting and this is not a critique, just an observation. To do it correctly, each weapon/munition type would need a separate penetration value and each part of ships have variable armor thickness which certainly sounds onerous.
That said, something as simple as giving projectiles a 2% chance to bypass 75% of citadel armor, and having that % increase up to 4x when very close ( modeling aiming for weak points ) might help??
Again, armor can be partially penetrated, with only the essential compartments being inside the citadel.QuoteMission Killing:
I think you are on to something, Perhaps an analouge might be reached by having hits to compartments start to decrease CR very slowly at first, but having it speed up CR loss after 60% of overall compartment hp damage and cap the possible CR loss at max of 65% of total. The rest of the ships CR could reside in the Citadel and this would allow a heavily damaged ship to retire slowly without use of most of it's weapons and if it has heavy armor it would be relatively safe while doing so, but unable to contribute much to the fight. The ship could retreat or repair if it had the right subsystems. This would also encourage interesting tactics where other ships could attempt to screen the crippled vessel while opposing force tries to finish it off.
That's exactly what it will do.
Expanding on this, a successful citadel hit should massively compromise a ship's ability to fight, given what's usually guarded by the citadel. Conversely, hitting compartments shouldn't really do much beyond somewhat degrade the ship's capabilities. This could be represented by the minor CR decay you mentioned, but right now there's nothing that makes citadel hits more serious other than more damage, and a ship at 1 hp shoots and flies just as well as one at full.
Is it possible to modify the way damage is applied to weapons and engines? It would be neat if they could only be disabled by citadel hits, or if citadel hits disabled the for way longer than partial penetrations.
You could even have particularly nasty hits result in critical malfunctions,
although I'd really prefer if you didn't.
Is it possible to track time in flight for a projectile, maybe?
Thanks for the suggestion: I love it when people give me ideas! I've now checked the DamagingProjectileAPI page (https://jaghaimo.github.io/starsector-api/interfacecom_1_1fs_1_1starfarer_1_1api_1_1combat_1_1DamagingProjectileAPI.html#a345d8a865b01ebbb79d6ffc16111122b) in the Starsector API and found just such a method: getElapsed(). I could use this method to determine, at impact, whether a ship could have jinked a projectile. The next trick would be either spawning a new projectile far enough down-range of the impact point not to be inside the ship, at the right time no less, or spawning one in the same place with an effect letting it 'slide under' or 'slide over' the passing ship.
I know I gush about this mod a lot, probably too much, but I like it a lot. I would like to notate somethings I continue to notice and like about it
+I am actually using energy projectile weapons now. Autopulse and other pulse weapons have a much greater bite to them now that they actually fly like bullets. Thermal pulse cannons have never been more impressive. I sometimes even use them in preference to beams, though
+Beams' much greater range owing to their diffraction turns battles into laser raves. THIS IS NOT A COMPLAINT. I LOVE THE LASER RAVES. It conveys the vast scale of the battlespace and the sheer speed of what the beam is composed of very well. It feels like space.
+I greatly appreciate the diminished emphasis on ranges for weapons. Mostly everything has a good enough range on it that it having slightly less of a reach than its competitors will not lead me to discount a cool or interesting weapon. Those twin anumis superheavies my pocket dreadnought just fired might have just missed their target but for the first time in this game Isaac Newton is finally the DEADLIEST SON OF A *** IN SPACE because you can be sure they're going to hit something at some point. It just gives these giant cannons a tangibility and mass that I don't get from the vanilla game.
+Missiles have speed. They don't mosey along like your grandpa's buick at five miles an hour. They are moving with a purpose and they ARE COMING TO KILL YOU. They feel terrifying and impossible and everything missiles should be and I love them so much. I love my annihilators. They are my babies.
+I know it's been causing some problems but I really like the increased range of small and medium mounts. It makes vulcans and flak cannons and other weapons I once considered mundane seem different or in a new light.
For these reasons and many many others... I'm never playing without this mod again.
The only complaint I really have right now is that at least some guided missiles still need some fine tuning due to earlier problems of them swarming around their targets until they run out of fuel persisting in at least one instance, Tahlan's fount swarmer.
However the coherence of this mod with so many other mods is very impressive to me and I am so very grateful it continues to be refined and supported
Been really enjoying this so far, it gives armor meta a reason, and allows different play style because of it should it be wanted.
only a few gripes so far;
-Crashing when some weapons fire/ricochet. I have yet to find the weapon that has been doing this to me, I think its Vanilla (or mainstay like Nex or Yunru, not sure)
-The fact the mod is set to TotalConversion=True by default. This means every time an update comes (and they are coming fast, which is great when they fix quite a few important things each time!), I forget to remove the True flagwhich causes issues when changing mods up to play with this one. Per your last reply if its designed to work with all mods, can it not be set as TotalConversion=True be default?
-As much as I love watching smaller fleets just evaporate to 20ish Valken Ex wings at start of battle, the super range beam sword thing does need to be addressed.
Can't think of any others off hand, but will add another post if it comes up.
That's understandable, I figured that simulating this property would cause some problems and even if you treated each cell (or box as they appear to the player) as its own entity, that could complicate things immensely with how many variables would go into it and the shear number of cells you would need to treat
It's easier than it looks if simplified. The ArmorGridAPI provide a method that returns the cell edge length in pixel edge lengths, squaring which returns an area in pixels, which can be divided by the area of an armor plate to return the number of plates, which can be associated with an armor level in the cell, which penetrations of the total armor would reduce accordingly.
For example, consider an armor cell with a value of 12 and size of 8: its area would be 64 pixels. Suppose an armor plate were 1 square meter, or 16 pixels. That armor cell would therefore have 4 plates, each of which would represent 0.25 of the armor level. A shot with enough damage to penetrate the total armor of the ship struck this cell would randomly generate a number between 0 and 1, compare that number to the cell level, which we will assume to be 1, conclude that it has struck an undamaged plate of the cell and therefore destroy the plate by reduce the value of the cell by 0.25 x value or 3 points.
The neat numbers I picked aside, how would such an approach suit simulating armor fatigue?
Super cool ideas, this would be re-introduce armor damage into the game in a less-significant way, which is something I was concerned about. I always thought it was cool how high-damage weapons can "open the door" for less high damage weapons to start doing damage. I would be happy if this could be implemented.
I think someone was right about the Project Taffeta, I think the shrapnel is appearing inside the ship. Just had a cruiser with 3 equipped Project Taffeta's pen my angled shield Shunted super armored Bishamonten (Musashi) and insta kill me. Funny thing was i was in tactical view momentarily when they hit, and I could see the shots ricocheting inside shipwreck very rapidly causing ridiculous damage numbers. I tried hitting fleet again and and sending my other ships into fight while spectating nothing (testing) and that lead to an interesting result. It was almost like the game couldn't handle showing the ricochets on screen but when it happens off screen to other ships the game continues.
Video of said explosion of Castigator in that fleet test. game handled it fine as this was about 10 seconds after its death, filmed it as I dragged camera back over Castigator, and you can see how frames ground to halt due to massive number of projectiles ricocheting inside wreck.
576929 [Thread-3] INFO com.fs.starfarer.loading.LoadingUtils - Loading JSON from [DIRECTORY: H:\GameLibrary\Starsector0.951RC6\starsector-core\..\mods\ShipDirectionMarker (ShipDirectionMarker.ini)]
576930 [Thread-3] INFO data.scripts.plugins.aEP_LocalData - aEP_LocalData_init
576934 [Thread-3] INFO com.fs.starfarer.loading.LoadingUtils - Loading JSON from [DIRECTORY: H:\GameLibrary\Starsector0.951RC6\starsector-core\..\mods\System_Marker (SYSTEM_MARKER_OPTIONS.ini)]
576936 [Thread-3] INFO com.fs.starfarer.loading.LoadingUtils - Loading JSON from [DIRECTORY: H:\GameLibrary\Starsector0.951RC6\starsector-core\..\mods\System_Marker (SYSTEM_MARKER_OPTIONS.ini)]
596421 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NegativeArraySizeException
java.lang.NegativeArraySizeException
at plugins.ProjectileIndicators.getEnergyTriangles(ProjectileIndicators.java:177)
at plugins.ProjectileIndicators.renderIndicator(ProjectileIndicators.java:259)
at plugins.ProjectileIndicators.renderInUICoords(ProjectileIndicators.java:287)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.Object.L$Oo.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.A.new.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)477175 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at plugins.ProjectileIndicators.glColor(ProjectileIndicators.java:195)
at plugins.ProjectileIndicators.renderIndicator(ProjectileIndicators.java:265)
at plugins.ProjectileIndicators.renderInUICoords(ProjectileIndicators.java:287)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.Object.L$Oo.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.A.new.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)Bug reportCode576929 [Thread-3] INFO com.fs.starfarer.loading.LoadingUtils - Loading JSON from [DIRECTORY: H:\GameLibrary\Starsector0.951RC6\starsector-core\..\mods\ShipDirectionMarker (ShipDirectionMarker.ini)]
576930 [Thread-3] INFO data.scripts.plugins.aEP_LocalData - aEP_LocalData_init
576934 [Thread-3] INFO com.fs.starfarer.loading.LoadingUtils - Loading JSON from [DIRECTORY: H:\GameLibrary\Starsector0.951RC6\starsector-core\..\mods\System_Marker (SYSTEM_MARKER_OPTIONS.ini)]
576936 [Thread-3] INFO com.fs.starfarer.loading.LoadingUtils - Loading JSON from [DIRECTORY: H:\GameLibrary\Starsector0.951RC6\starsector-core\..\mods\System_Marker (SYSTEM_MARKER_OPTIONS.ini)]
596421 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NegativeArraySizeException
java.lang.NegativeArraySizeException
at plugins.ProjectileIndicators.getEnergyTriangles(ProjectileIndicators.java:177)
at plugins.ProjectileIndicators.renderIndicator(ProjectileIndicators.java:259)
at plugins.ProjectileIndicators.renderInUICoords(ProjectileIndicators.java:287)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.Object.L$Oo.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.A.new.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
Bug reportCode576929 [Thread-3] INFO com.fs.starfarer.loading.LoadingUtils - Loading JSON from [DIRECTORY: H:\GameLibrary\Starsector0.951RC6\starsector-core\..\mods\ShipDirectionMarker (ShipDirectionMarker.ini)]
576930 [Thread-3] INFO data.scripts.plugins.aEP_LocalData - aEP_LocalData_init
576934 [Thread-3] INFO com.fs.starfarer.loading.LoadingUtils - Loading JSON from [DIRECTORY: H:\GameLibrary\Starsector0.951RC6\starsector-core\..\mods\System_Marker (SYSTEM_MARKER_OPTIONS.ini)]
576936 [Thread-3] INFO com.fs.starfarer.loading.LoadingUtils - Loading JSON from [DIRECTORY: H:\GameLibrary\Starsector0.951RC6\starsector-core\..\mods\System_Marker (SYSTEM_MARKER_OPTIONS.ini)]
596421 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NegativeArraySizeException
java.lang.NegativeArraySizeException
at plugins.ProjectileIndicators.getEnergyTriangles(ProjectileIndicators.java:177)
at plugins.ProjectileIndicators.renderIndicator(ProjectileIndicators.java:259)
at plugins.ProjectileIndicators.renderInUICoords(ProjectileIndicators.java:287)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.Object.L$Oo.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.A.new.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
284305 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at plugins.ProjectileIndicators.glColor(ProjectileIndicators.java:195)
at plugins.ProjectileIndicators.renderIndicator(ProjectileIndicators.java:265)
at plugins.ProjectileIndicators.renderInUICoords(ProjectileIndicators.java:287)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.Object.L$Oo.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.A.new.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
Hotfixed 1.10.1: the code for energy projectile triangles no longer raises exceptions.SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FAST!!!! :-* :-*
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FAST!!!! :-* :-*
Hey, could weapon mount rotation speed be factored in with muzzle velocity for range?
Like, if you had a laser, which of course has ridiculous muzzle velocity, it might be able to instantly zap a fighter, but only if it could aim quickly enough at said fighter.
If you had a massive, non-PD laser for instance, which had a very low rotation speed as it was meant to be used against larger ships, it would make sense that fighter would simply stay too high or too low for it to be able to aim at them, no?
Of course, this becomes less true the further out you get from the axis of a weapon aim arc, just as the ends of spokes on a wheel move faster than the ends near the axis do. But, counting in gunner reaction times and gameplay balance reasons, I'd think this could be included to such a degree as to impact the combat significantly, and nerf lasers a little, if they're too powerful as PD, even when the lasers in question are not PD.
IDK know, this is just a random idea I had. I am not to knowledgeable about physics and math and space combat simulations, so whatever. I have no idea what the state of balance is for this mod, I haven't tried it yet, but this idea came to mind while I read through the comments, deciding whether I'd want to try to play this with every one of the 40 mods I have installed lol.
Woooo! Someone else playing! I think you have found lasers to be too powerful as PD: is that so?
Oh, also, could I ask why many weapons are said to have a massively increased fire rate?
I haven't tested it so I might like that change, but in case I don't, or if it causes frame lag, is there some toggle for various features of this mod? I think I would like such toggles regardless for other features which I or others might find personally disagreeable.
EDIT: My mistake, I should have read through the whole topic first and changelog. I can see toggles are there.
However, I would still like to know the rationale behind increasing fire rate apparently so much?
Yay, another person playing and even commenting! Weapon refire delay is unchanged, but burst fire autocannons have their bursts replaced with full-auto fire at the burst rate.
Super cool ideas, this would be re-introduce armor damage into the game in a less-significant way, which is something I was concerned about. I always thought it was cool how high-damage weapons can "open the door" for less high damage weapons to start doing damage. I would be happy if this could be implemented.
The trouble I see with the idea is that a ship would have to survive multiple hits to its citadel and only then have less effective armor, and only on that one cell. For example, the Hammerhead has 500 armor and 5,000 hull. In just ten citadel hits, the Hammerhead would be destroyed, and the armor fatigue would be irrelevant.
Ah, regrettably I have not yet played, though I wish to very soon! I have been reading through these pages to get a decent understanding of how the mod works and the future plans for balancing and changes and additions, so that when I did play I'd have an idea of where the mod was headed, before I went ahead and made judgements. Though, it seems I already have made some, my mistake.
Hey dude, awesome job!
I really enjoy this mod and come to midgame with it and with Nexerelin (like 20 hours in total, mod version 1.4.2), untill i find that RC ruins balance for some modded weapons ;D
Firstly i blame other mods but then find that guilty is RC.
For example, i try to engage "Oculian Armada" station and it kill my entiry fleet really fast. I try again and deploy 3 capitals, (one of them with 40k hull), and they was shredded in a minute. Some balistic gun on that station become too overpowered.
Then i find that one of my cruisers doing some mad stuff and trashes enemies thick and fast. Tierra Burst Cannon from "The Exalted" mode and Devastator Cannon (seems to be vanila, idk) is the reason why it happens. Images below, sorry for the quality (had to crop them due to the forun limits)
(http://Broken.png)
(http://Devastator.png)
I add the video with examples, how Tierra Burst Cannon works without mod and with it (plus energy feeder to increace shooting speed even more). See fire rate and the range :D
(dunno is it works if i add vids like this)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D5L6WIlNlM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D5L6WIlNlM)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCbtrHfvfHs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCbtrHfvfHs)
This mod brings ton of neat features, but having such OP weapons is not cool so i have disable it or try to play with the setting to toggle everything what change weapon behavior :(
I dont blame you, RC is great and works with every mode, but it is not really "compatible", so need to use it on own risk.
I think the feature toggles should be more granular, if only to make testing more convenient (i.e. modify ship movement, modify ship armor, modify weapon ammo-feed system).
Even for vanilla weapons, I do not like the fact that the Hephaestus and the Mark XI fire like gatling guns for some reason,
Patch 1.11.0 is out! High damage, fast-firing weapons will now be considered cannons because of an added a damage check to determining whether a weapon is a cannon. Cannons have increased refire delays.
Dine this mean the mark XI auto cannon no longer has a machine gun fire rate cause I really like the high rof, makes me want to actually use it lol
Dine this mean the mark XI auto cannon no longer has a machine gun fire rate cause I really like the high rof, makes me want to actually use it lol
Yes, but it now gets big damage.
Been following the mod and rather interested in it, however I think I'm going to have to hold off due to weapon ranges being a bit screwy.
Two best comparisons are the HMG vs the Hypervolocity Driver and the PD vs LR PD or Tac Laser.
The HMG goes from a short range PD/Safety Overrides weapon to a sniper autocanon, spewing shots out to 4700, while the Hypervelocity which is a dedicated standoff weapon gets to 3500. This means you can choose between a long range kinetic that deals 3x the damage and also can do PD for less OP and Flux, or you can choose a shorter range one that also deals emp and is slightly better at getting through armor... In the anti-shield role where that doesn't really matter.
The PD gets longer range than the LR PD Laser, which makes sense with the realism overhaul when it doesn't get personally adjusted, however the TAC laser with the same damage and twice the flux has 5332 range vs the PD lasers 7323.
These are base game weapons, so while I'm very interested until they function reasonbly I'll go back to lurking on this mod.
Edit: Also having loaded and unloaded the mod, I can now say the mod doesn't fully disable itself. So far it only leaves the altered zoom (I like). [[Extra Edit: Turns out I hadn't disabled it. Actually disabiling it the zoom stays. Will try to come back to you regarding the rest, but the reticule is removed.]]
Finally something I forgot to mention, in simulation enemy ships spawn in the middle, which means combat initiates instantly before shields can be raised if you deploy enemy ships straight away. I don't think it's something you could tweak easily so just more something for us players to keep in mind.
Also something I've noticed, missile ammo counts, at least modded ones, have been brought down. Additionally Missiles who functioned based on reloading (No ammo count but given a reload) have been given an ammo count and no reload mechanism. Lower Ammo count might be a balance mechanism, but the forced ammo count was a bit of a surprise.
Ah, regrettably I have not yet played, though I wish to very soon! I have been reading through these pages to get a decent understanding of how the mod works and the future plans for balancing and changes and additions, so that when I did play I'd have an idea of where the mod was headed, before I went ahead and made judgements. Though, it seems I already have made some, my mistake.
Now I understand. I was confused because your suggestions sounded like balance or design decisions I had already made one way or the other. By the way, did you watch the video before posting your comments?
compatibility issue report:
Some beam weapon's speed is extremely high in other mod(like Paladin PD System (AO) in Archean Order TC, whose speed is 1000000),and due to the weapon's range mechanism change in this mod, the weapon's range become very long, like 10000.
it is possible to limit the weapon's 'beam speed' or 'proj speed' before calculate their range?
Ah yes, I did watch the video, and I think a couple others that others have posted in this topic.
Why do you ask? I apologize if I've sounded presumptuous with my suggestions and ideas.
compatibility issue report:
Some beam weapon's speed is extremely high in other mod(like Paladin PD System (AO) in Archean Order TC, whose speed is 1000000),and due to the weapon's range mechanism change in this mod, the weapon's range become very long, like 10000.
it is possible to limit the weapon's 'beam speed' or 'proj speed' before calculate their range?
Thanks for getting back to me! Beam speed is not used to calculate beam range: only damage per second, emp per second, and flux per second. This calculation has nevertheless led to weird problems, and I think you have found one of the rarer ones. I am working on it.
private static void modifyBeamWeaponSpec(WeaponSpecAPI weaponSpec) {
beamWeaponSpecProxy.setBeamWeaponSpecProxy(weaponSpec);
beamWeaponSpecProxy.setBeamSpeed(1000000);
if (!beamWeaponSpecProxy.isBurst()) beamWeaponSpecProxy.setDamagePerSecond(
getContinuousBeamDamagePerSecondFactor(weaponSpec.getSize())
* beamWeaponSpecProxy.getDamagePerSecond());
float beamRangeCutoff = getBeamRangeCutoff(beamWeaponSpecProxy.getDamagePerSecond(),
weaponSpec.getDerivedStats().getEmpPerSecond(),
weaponSpec.getDerivedStats().getFluxPerSecond());
if (beamRangeCutoff > 4000) {
beamRangeCutoff = 4000;
}
weaponSpec.setMaxRange(beamRangeCutoff);
}
Alright, first impressions after finally getting to play the mod:
Very impressive, what you've been able to do with the game. I admire your dedication to this project, with the many updates I've seen to this in only one month. I find how angle changes armor penetration particularly interesting, and the ricochets are very fun to watch. :)
However, I do have some gripes, mostly due to personal taste. The game feels much more chaotic, most certainly, with this mod enabled. I can hardly tell what's going on, at least at first, during even somewhat larger battles. To some extent I like that, not knowing exactly what's going on makes the strategy much more difficult, and increases the possible skill ceiling, as you learn how the game works, and that's great. But with how much overlap with the massive ranges, and ludicrous projectile speeds, it almost feels like fights are pure slugfests, with little outmaneuvering possible. I'm sure that with enough experience I could find the subtle ways to maneuver and strategize in such a game, but it's very different from what I'm used to with vanilla, and I really liked how vanilla felt with how battle strategy worked, with its ship speeds and weapon ranges and scale.
Past the gripes, I am very, very much loving the way you changed range. Frigates being able to get much closer to larger ships is definitely how it should have been, but due to vanilla range, and with integrated targeting unit being essentially standard, that was hardly the case. With a very maneuverable frigate, you could maybe dodge some of the weapons of larger ships, and get into attack range, but this was a difficult and risky maneuver. In this mod, frigates are actually threatening to larger ships due to their evasiveness. However, this unfortunately largely goes unnoticed, if it even practically works out, due to the aforementioned chaos and overlapping ranges of larger battles.QuoteSo far, what I have found most fun for me, and I think for others overwhelmed by the chaos of this mod, is toggling off all ship, fighter, and weapon changes. It makes the game feel much more similar to vanilla in how the grander battle strategy and movement and such feel, while retaining the 3D targeting feature, which is honestly something I do not think I can go without at this point.
I understand you to mean that you want the UI features (momentum indicators, indicator diamonds, projectile indicators) plus map (big map, no fog), to drop the the ship and fighter spec changes, and have Three Dimensional Targeting without any weapon stats changes.QuoteHowever, the issues with this are threefold:
1, The difference in weapon ranges is quite extreme with the 3D targeting system. This is a fairly minor issue, and may or not cause much actual imbalance. Honestly, this is the least of the problems we face with the changes toggling off your changes to weapons and ships causes.
Also, Three Dimensional Targeting becomes unrealistic if "shouldModifyWeapons" is "false" because weapon ranges and muzzle velocities are therefore not equalized. For example, Three Dimensional Targeting would then let the projectile of a weapon with a range of 1,000 but speed of 500 keep on tumbling long after the targeted ship would have strafed up or down to escape--or the projectile of a weapon with a range of 500 but speed of 1,000 zip across its range and then vanish even though it could have hit the targeted ship in time.Quote2, This makes citadel hits extremely unlikely, essentially. As the cannon classification no longer exists, few weapons deal enough damage to get into the citadel layer of most ships' armor. This makes every ship quite bullet spongey, especially the bigger ones, as few weapons exist that can really deal with the sheer bulk of hull they bring to the table.
Damage system toggle is on the way.Quote3, Again with weapon damage, is a very, very strange issue I have found, with a very easy fix, luckily:
I have found that with all three toggles set to false, the armor thickness modifiers for the three ballistic damage types still apply. I discovered this by testing the arbalest and the mauler, both weapons with 200 base damage, against an onslaught with ~2000 armor, and against an onslaught with ~2500 armor. The result was that the arbalest could pierce the compartment armor of both, whereas the mauler was only able to pierce the armor of the weaker onslaught's 2000 armor. Doing the math for what the armor thickness should be for both weapons against either onslaught, and factoring in the armor thickness modifiers for their damage types, it checks out that the heavy mauler could not pierce a ship with ~2500 armor.
However, the plot thickens. After these weapons pierce any ship's compartment armor, the arbalest deals anywhere from ~17-32~ damage to hull, and the mauler does anything from ~54-74~.
This would indicate that either that damage type damage modifiers from either vanilla or realistic combat are affecting the hull damage of these weapons after they pierce. Whether it's vanilla or the mod, or some other unknown factor in hull damage, I cannot tell, though, given that both weapons should deal 33 base damage to a compartment given that the compartment damage modifer is 1/6th. If the vanilla damage type damage modifiers were applying, or if the mod ones were applying, the damage of the arbalest should in both cases be around half of 33, so about 16-17, not going close to 33. The mauler's damage is much more expected for both damage modifiers.
I don't know enough about how damage is calculated in the base game or in this mod, so I can't figure out why these weapons behave this way exactly.
However, I know enough to see that something very odd is happening.
Read the field manual and settings.json, and you will find that weapons deal damage depending on their type. The numbers are under "damageCalculationConstants".QuoteRegardless of the strangeness of this discovery, the solution for it, and for issue #2, is luckily very simple, that is to add a toggle for the new armor system.
I would be very saddened to have to go to such a length to preserve the overall strategic feel of vanilla starsector battles, but I do have another idea.
The field manual has a slide about spreading and slowing your ships to limit contact. An all-out-brawl is unnecessary and dangerous.QuoteBesides a toggle for the armor system, which I think should be added anyways for those who do not like it, yet like the new range system, I do have an idea for players in my position, who like both:
After some testing, I have determined that ALL toggles can be turned to true, maintaining the same overall feel of the base game, making these specific changes:
* All weapon velocity changes are set to 0, including that for missiles. This allows for the weapon damage changes to be kept, while reverting the rough scale of combat the same as is in vanilla starsector.
Note that increasing weapon range and projectile velocity is the core of projectile weapon modification: you might as well toggle "shouldModifyWeapons" off.Quote* All ship movement is set back to factors of 1, so same as vanilla. This keeps the pace and flow of battles the same.
This change amounts to toggling "shouldModifyShips" to true if you also set the maxSpeedBonuses to zero.QuoteOverall, reverting these changes allows for the same general feel as vanilla starsector combat, while maintaining the new armor system, which is super cool.
Wait, didn't you also talk about toggling the armor system off too?
No doubt some small changes could be made to improve balance from this starting point, but with these basic changes, I believe the game retains its original feel, with the still game-changing and very fun changes to the armor system and how ship size and acceleration affect range.
If this ends up introducing too many balance issues somehow, I think an armor toggle should be very doable, and just the 3D targeting system by itself is revolutionary, and, as I said, I do not think I can play without it.
Thank you very much for this mod. Keep up the hard work. I'm going to begin a campaign with my suggested changes soon, and see how it affects various content mods I want to play with. I hope I've helped with my suggestions and research. God bless you for this contribution to starsector modding, it's honestly the most significant project I've seen with how it changes the combat. Nothing comes close to it. I really hope you can get somewhere with it so that it's suitably stable and balanced, at least with vanilla. Even if you aren't, the fact you were able to get it to work to this extent is amazing.
"I understand you to mean that you want the UI features (momentum indicators, indicator diamonds, projectile indicators) plus map (big map, no fog), to drop the the ship and fighter spec changes, and have Three Dimensional Targeting without any weapon stats changes."
Damage system toggle is on the way.
Note that increasing weapon range and projectile velocity is the core of projectile weapon modification: you might as well toggle "shouldModifyWeapons" off.
Read the field manual and settings.json, and you will find that weapons deal damage depending on their type. The numbers are under "damageCalculationConstants".
It sounds like you're impressed that this mod was even possible but think it just isn't playable, balanced, or fun as-is and hope that might change. Is that right?
"I understand you to mean that you want the UI features (momentum indicators, indicator diamonds, projectile indicators) plus map (big map, no fog), to drop the the ship and fighter spec changes, and have Three Dimensional Targeting without any weapon stats changes."
Primarily I adore the 3D targeting system, while I appreciate some of the UI changes, I really would just like to keep the 3D targeting.
And indeed, you say that it would be broken, but I have seen no issues with it thus far. It seems to work just as intended, albeit with much shorter ranges due to the much lower velocities. It keeps things quite close to vanilla ranges with destroyers and cruisers generally, gets to knife fight range against frigates, and gets to 1500-2000 when fighting capitals like the Onslaught, all very comfortable. I think the acceleration changes with the smaller ships' maneuverability might be good to keep, as some of the faster frigates can get very close without being in range, but otherwise the 3D targeting appears to work perfectly fine so far as I've seen.
Very good! I would love to play with many mods, and although I love the new armor system, I believe it is unlikely many mods would be very compatible with it, whereas with the 3D targeting it should remain fairly balanced (excepting some very high/low velocity weapons).
On that note, do you think it would be possible to have some sort of tag that players could add to various mod weapons, to classify them as either autocannons or cannons? This way if a player wanted to use a mod, and the modder will not add compatibility for realistic combat, the player could add the appropriate tag to the mod weapons.
The most important kept change is that weapon damage is changed for cannons. This allows the weapons which would be classified as "cannons" to remain balanced even with the unchanged armor system.
The thing I found strange about this is that the damage type of the weapons affected the resulting compartment damage just as though the weapon changes were toggled on, which shouldn't be the case, right?
Well, I can think it is very cool that you were able to make such significant and complex changes to the game, even if I would not want to play with all of them. And clearly, many think so as well, but do want to play with the changes the mod makes. I'm just hoping that you are able to bring the mod to a fully-balanced and satisfactory state, for the sake of all those who want to play such a state.
As I said before, I am really just intrigued by the 3D targeting system. I find it absolutely amazing, and as I said, can no longer play without it. The armor system, too, I find very cool, though it is highly incompatible with any content mods due to imbalance which cannot be easily rebalanced, and thus I'm afraid I will have to disable it.
The 3D targeting, though, really just feels like "common sense" realism. Like, why do capital ships out-range frigates for no reason? That is what 3D targeting fixes. Although, I suppose I ought to worry that the game will be less balanced if frigates have that sort of advantage, as I said, I will likely have to keep the acceleration changes to ships smaller than capitals.
Except for fighters, perhaps. I expect the massively increased acceleration of those is unnecessary due to the lower muzzle velocities of weapons.
Oh, and one more thing, perhaps a bit of a request: Would there be some way perhaps to bring beams more in line with the ranges of other weapons? That's the only issue I have found with 3D targeting enabled with vanilla muzzle velocities. Beam weapons simply outrange nearly everything, and are therefore much more effective than they are in vanilla.
Perhaps, I could have beam weapons' ranges be based on the maneuverability of the targeted ship, and set their "muzzle velocity" for use in the range calculation to be something around that of vanilla weapons? This way, their range would change depending on the target, just as other weapons do, instead of being based on damage.
I'm not asking you to program up something for me, but could you point me in the right direction of your mod's inner workings, so that I could try to program in such a change for myself? This is the only thing holding me back from being able to play a fairly balanced, normal playthrough using your 3D targeting system.
Again, sorry if my takes are very confusing, as you seem to be somewhat confused by me.
Ok, so just 3D targeting?
Have you tried those mods and found them not to be compatible, or are you speculating?
I have enhanced cannon detection, so the weirdness of frag-autocannons becoming cannons should stop.
Do you mean that you found, for example, weapons that would have been classified as cannons to deal huge damage per shot?
So, again, you want to run just the 3D targeting.
Anyway, in the next patch, you should be able to do just that by turning everything off.
Really? You mean that beams wouldn't have infinite range without weapon changes but with 3D targeting on? I'm confused.
I intend that while projectile weapons follow the 3D targeting system using their muzzle velocities to determine their range, beam weapons instead follow a standard "muzzle velocity" only for the purpose of 3D targeting range calculation, and multiplying the resulting range by their base range in their stats, keeping their relative range compared to other beam weapons the same, and keeping their range roughly in line with the projectile weapons.
Could that be done with disabling weapon changes, but keeping 3D targeting?
Looking into the rest of the mod folder, as you suggested, I have found how beam range is determined, and I have an idea of how it determines it, but I am not quite sure how to do what I had postulated, that being applying a standard "muzzle velocity" to beams in order to calculate their 3D range the same as projectile weapons, and multiplying the result by their range stats in the game.
I'm sorry if this is troublesome for you, but I ask that you point me at which file(s) in the src folder I must look at and modify in order to affect such a change, if such a change is viable. I am no modder, but I expect I can figure things out if you give me a rough outline of where beams' range is determined, and if I could modify just that, or if other parts would have to be modified to make the changes I wish to make.
To be specific, I believe weaponstats.java would be where most of the action is happening?
And, I know it's not realistic, but 3D targeting is, as I said, SUPER COOL, even if I cannot implement it in my game in a way I find most fun, while also keeping it realistic. If possible I would want to be able to play with it for every proceeding playthrough, and I think many others do too, but do not like the change in scale that the rest of your mod's changes create in the game.
Again, I'm sorry if I've been presumptuous, or troublesome for you.
[quote]
What they said.
[/quote]
Sort of. See the rest of this reply.
No, that could not be done with disabling weapon changes because 3D targeting doesn't even consider beam or projectile muzzle velocity to begin with. It presumes projectile weapon range to equal projectile weapon muzzle velocity and multiplies projectile weapon range by the time the target would need to strafe off the path of a projectile fired at it.
You could remove the line that resets the ship-wide beam weapon range multiplier, though. 3D targeting used to adjust beam range, and I didn't even notice at first but had to add that line later because the API doesn't have a 'energyProjectileWeaponRangeMult'. With that done, you can then write a script to modify the base ranges of all the beams to suit yourself.
Beam range is the point on a modified inverse-square diffraction curve DPS (plus/or EPS) falls below a threshold of flux-efficiency. That curve is I(x) = I0 / (1 + (x/I0)^2) If you want shorter-range beam weapons, then multiply their base damage by some factor less than one before their range is modified---but why would you want beam weapons to be the same range as projectile weapons, anyway? Having different ranges for different weapon categories is interesting, and besides, that flux-efficiency threshold I mentioned is 1/10. ;D
Requesting features or worrying about bugs or problems that you would know didn't exist if you had played Realistic Combat, read the Field Manual, directly asking how the mod worked, or even opened the mod folder to find the source code instead of digging through a forum thread with many (usually resolved) complaints about old versions and then imagining what might be happening based on second-hand concerns has indeed annoyed me. Speaking of etiquette, here's how to quote someone on the forum:CodePlease use these keywords to break up the big, automatically-generated quote that appears at the top of your post when you click the Quote button on a post so the forum will automatically quote-box each part of the post you quote, and don't include the words that the other person quoted to avoid giant quote-ziggurats.[quote]
What they said.
[/quote]
Still look forward to hearing from you, though!
Ah, so I got the order of operations wrong here?
Anyways, so I would have to find the bit of code you added to modify beams' base ranges, remove it, and that should cause beams to follow the same rules of range as other weapons in 3D targeting?
Oh, I think it's fairly cool how beams have infinite range (even if it gets cluttered with too many of them), but I would then have to go through the trouble of carefully balancing code I barely understand so they're balanced for vanilla-level ranges, and I'll probably run into lots of issues with that. I'm satisfied with vanilla beam mechanics, so I would rather not bother with those issues.
Yeah, I apologize for my stumbling through my discovery and discussion of this mod. I had figured that I might be able to figure out what's going on with the game easier if I can figure out what's going on with the code and what others think of the balance of the mod.
And, even with your explanation of quoting, I can't figure how you've gotten your posts to look like how they do. I hope this looks fine. Sorry for the massive posts, I'll edit those in a bit.
Anyways, thanks much for the help! In my attempt to configure something useable and fun out a vanilla-ranged, short-beamed version of your mod, I'll be sure to come to you with any interesting discoveries. If I can make something useable and fun out of it, and if you agree that it is, then feel free to put it in the parent post as a "lite" version of your mod! Or don't. I'd mostly be making it for me, of course.
Ahhhh, sweet relief... your quotes are perfect!
So I finally got back in town and got some time to sit down with this mod and start a new Playthrough. it’s very interesting but I have a few things I had questions about.
1. Opaqueness
This is sort of a general catchall but I’ll just take an example from vanilla combat where you’ll take section of your fleet in and it’ll be some thing like 10 V 10 on The screen but only a few of the ships are in range of each other and there’s constant maneuvering back-and-forth. Because all the ranges are five times shorter and ships are slower it’s a lot easier to see the weapons firing and see what shields are getting low, and fire missiles or send in fighters to finish off. With the extended ranges in this mod I feel like I’ve got a much less situational awareness vs vanilla.
To Be more specific in vanilla when one of my ships is disabled I generally know why it happened because they’re out of position or overextended or Ai was just dumb but at least I know what happened. But with this mod the range is so large and all the ships flying around so fast Half the time I can barely tell which way my ship is facing and keep it on target much less why my other ships are blowing up.
Also and I will admit this is primarily an aesthetic point but to be in effective in combat with 4000+ ranges I have to spend most of the time zoomed out all the way and I miss out on all the cool weapon effects and ship sprites and explosions etc.
I really like the idea of treating the combat as more realistic and I think there is a good opportunity here to open up interesting new gameplays but The UI being human readable in real time in a abroad overall tactical sense IMHO a it necessity in games like this.
If you look at the tactical turn based strategy game like Jagger alliance 2, you’ll see something like two or three small houses on the screen together maybe 100 meters max and the range of weapons is roughly around the screen size. Yeah in the weapon stats you’ll see ranges on the sniper rifles up to 700 m but for gameplay reasons they scale everything down so they can all fit on the screen (or slightly off) and it just WORKS and still feels realistic.
My final note on opaqueness is to do with weapons hitting armor and doing hardly any damage, it would be Nice to get a little more feedback or info in the game why 1000 bullets for 30-60 secs from an assault chain gun or heavy auto cannon fails to penetrate or damage armor. IMHO there should always be a small chance for rounds to hit weak or less armored spots and do damage.
This is just my.02 cents and I’ve only played for 8 hours or so but I already ran into a run ending battle Where in vanilla I would’ve won with 20-30% losses but with the mod the super long battle ended up a mutual massacre with both 30!ship fleets with losing 80% of ships.
One comment I'd like to make on this, we need to set something for target focus (unless I've missed it so far).
If I set a target priority for my fleet, they zerg rush that target, and I'll generally lose a few ships in process because they gave their sides to other enemies, sometimes (faster ships) litterally charging through entire fleet if enemy ship phases back. Can the engagement range for target prioritization be changed?
Anyone got tips for taking down stations with this mod? I go carrier and missile heavy and pirate stations are obliterating me
Hi, I am not sure if this was asked before but changing fire rate of Thermal Pulse Cannon on Onslaught to 12sec is intended behaviour ?
Hi, I am not sure if this was asked before but changing fire rate of Thermal Pulse Cannon on Onslaught to 12sec is intended behaviour ?
It's not, and I could tweak to avoid messing with this for built-in weapons, but I had to make the cannon-autocannon damage cutoff somewhere because guns like the Devastator had become OP.
Its also heavily nerfed most large ballistic vanilla weapons I feel, weapons like Mjolnir are quite ineffective now. tested with some previously fast firing large ballistic weapons and most feel powerless. a lot of mod weapons feel bad now too sadly. maybe 10-12s was too long?
Also, I am both happy and sad my cross map beam swords are gone...
Another note, anyone else having issues with invincible shields as of latest update? just fought a station for over 5 minutes in a super battleship because shield damage wasn't creating flux.only finally killed it when it took shield down for some reason and instantly died...
Another note, anyone else having issues with invincible shields as of latest update? just fought a station for over 5 minutes in a super battleship because shield damage wasn't creating flux.only finally killed it when it took shield down for some reason and instantly died...
Invincible shields on stations or just ships?
After testing its not the shields, its like some ships are getting invulnerability. I just spent 15 minutes afk having ship guns autofire 3 frigates as a test. The armor was gone from the mid/back of all 3, and surprisingly 2 had their front armor still. They had no flux build up entire time and I don't think any had commanders (in case it was a commander perk doing it). It MAY have been something related to beam sword hits making them invulnerable (still had Valken EX loaded on battlecarriers) as that is the only similar contributing factor.
That experiment earlier, battle was still ongoing haha, had to use console command to force end combat.
As to your comment on energy weapons, I'll try to play with them in a bit if I remember.
Update;
Not sure if its beam sword, but I can confirm it seems to be the Valken EX breaking the ships and making them invincible. tested with a carrier with wings of those, had same ship kill every target it went up against, but as soon as the Valkens engaged, target wouldn't die. may be all beamsword craft, not sure.
Realistic Combat is stable with all other mods and intended to be played with them but adds realism mechanics that mods are not designed for and drastically changes the intended balance of mods by modifying all ship, fighter, and weapon specifications: some mod combat scripts may run differently or not at all. To ensure the user knows why other mods may behave differently, the Realistic Combat mod information file has a removable "totalConversion" tag that prevents loading it with other mods until the user removes the tag.So, by default this mod affects only vanilla ships? If i install this as is, i will get vanilla ships that shoot across half of the map against modded factions that are practically melee?
So, by default this mod affects only vanilla ships? If i install this as is, i will get vanilla ships that shoot across half of the map against modded factions that are practically melee?
I don't wanna sound like a *** but what's the point of this? If you play vanilla with this mod, it doesn't matter if its total conversion or not. And if you play modded isn't it way more broken than having some scripts not working or working differently?
I don't understand. Then what does enabling mods by removing total conversion tag do?So, by default this mod affects only vanilla ships? If i install this as is, i will get vanilla ships that shoot across half of the map against modded factions that are practically melee?
I don't wanna sound like a *** but what's the point of this? If you play vanilla with this mod, it doesn't matter if its total conversion or not. And if you play modded isn't it way more broken than having some scripts not working or working differently?
It does affect modded ships and weapons, and hence the warning.
I don't understand. Then what does enabling mods by removing total conversion tag do?
When you select a target and have a beam weapon selected, show the efficiency of the weapon given the range as a ship buff on the sidebar
Could do the same with projectiles, showing range, and maybe some on enemy manuverability rating and resulting range modifier.
You could also make weapon speed explicitly based on weapon base range, instead of the other way around. Possibly make pd have the extra range and less damage like how you tweak cannons now
Given all frag is pd(I think) and say, double range and half damage, could revert the frag modifiers too.
A beam weapon efficiency indication seems wise, would have to represent an average of the weapon group efficiency, and be better represented with a circular arc around the cursor.Makes sense, and yea, it should be on the cursor.
Why?Mostly because I thought it would be interesting to see exactly how the range is adjusted from ingame, but I doubt it really has any gameplay impact.
I don't understand this suggestion.Uhm. Currently, I don't actually know how projectile speed and correspondingly range is setup. But given that hellbores get very fast projectiles, It is probably already this way. The thought was to take the vanilla range, possibly add the weapon-size range bonus, then for a standardized target jink value, set the speed to hit that standard target.
It is definitely not all PD.Are you sure? I thought all weapons with frag had the PD tag. Can you give a counterexample?
Uhm. Currently, I don't actually know how projectile speed and correspondingly range is setup. But given that hellbores get very fast projectiles, It is probably already this way. The thought was to take the vanilla range, possibly add the weapon-size range bonus, then for a standardized target jink value, set the speed to hit that standard target.
But since I dont actually know how you do it currently, I don't think that was a valid suggestion. I need more data first.
Are you sure? I thought all weapons with frag had the PD tag. Can you give a counterexample?
Projectile weapon speed equals projectile weapon range, which is multiplied by the time the target would need to strafe to determine the un-jinkable range of the projectile.Ah, so in other words, it is exactly what I was trying to suggest XD
Remember that I have to support all mods.Oh right.
I think the real question is why you enabled TC tag in the first place?I don't understand. Then what does enabling mods by removing total conversion tag do?
It lets you load other mods.
Edit:
Is it possible to add weapon tags dynamically, so that anything that is a "Cannon" gets a cannon tag added, alongside Assault or Support or w.e.?
Why did you make ballistic weapons not consume flux? Or, assuming they do anyway. Tooltip says some amount of flux per second, but zero per shot, which is odd.
I think the real question is why you enabled TC tag in the first place?
Please make a mirror - the link does not work!
Hi, may I ask if advanced optics is buffed? I eagarly await the next patch!
Increased map size, weapon range and armor mechanics all feel great; this mod is simply awesome, definitely my favorite mod so far. Thank you, Liral, you just made a great game even better :)
However there are some weapon behaviours which, I believe, are not intentional.
Thumper (previously the most rapidfire weapon in the game) firing only one frag shell per ~10 seconds is incredibly underwhelming even compared to the stock machinegun; same applies for Mark IX autocannon, Thermal Pulse Laser, Devastator flak, Heavy Autocannon and a number of other high-firerate vanilla guns. For some reason, that bug does not apply to Assault Chaingun (and I am very happy about that).
At the same time, Burst PD (both heavy and regular versions) as well as Paladin PD system have become incredibly OP due to surprisingly high range (Paladin now has 5000, far more than dedicated "sniper weapons" from vanilla) and damage output (relatively high firereate combined with raw damage-per-shot shreds ships much faster than literally any other non-missile weapon).
That's a really cool new way to approach the battle mode. I like it!
Though you gotta work some more on making it easier to pilot ships yourself. Somehow seeing contacts 14000 units away and stating to eat PD fire from 2000 units away while you can't see opponents is weeeird. Maybe I'm not used to it yet?
From the short time I spent trying it, in mission AI battles torpedoes behave weirdly. AI would shoot reapers at nothing and they'd die after traveling a short distance.
Are you also planning to do some changes to how command points work and how many of them are allocated? This thing makes tactics a lot more important and it also makes it more fun to just watch the battles instead of piloting a ship yourself
Anyway I really enjoy this mod and I'll be playing with it some more. Just watching the crazy long range laser/PD fire madness is entertaining
I'll keep it short.
This mod made me play Starsector again.
Needs some polish here and there but good stuff.
Hi, may I ask if advanced optics is buffed? I eagarly await the next patch!
I have no idea what the skills and hullmods do in Realistic Combat! I'm glad that you are eager for the next patch--and even made an account just to say so!
P.S. It is spelt 'eagerly'. :)
Hi, may I ask if advanced optics is buffed? I eagarly await the next patch!
I have no idea what the skills and hullmods do in Realistic Combat! I'm glad that you are eager for the next patch--and even made an account just to say so!
P.S. It is spelt 'eagerly'. :)
Yeah I meant to say the reapers seem to flame out much quicker than other missiles
I like how Hurricane MIRVs looks now, the extra homing is cool
I'll play some more and see if I can word better what's giving me problems with piloting ships, but the bigger weapon range is definitely one of them.
lululul that sounds very fun! I saw the Integrated Targeting Unit in to to-do list in the beginning, may I ask if it currently does anything at all? It's hella expensive and I have it on all my ships
Awwwwwww thank you!!!! I didn't expect you to notice at all!!!! This mod is the sole reason that I registered for this forum, and I love your work sir!
When I first asked my friends about the mod, all my friends initially told me that "OooOooo Realistic Combat is lame I like my vanilla blasting," but now I convinced them to the contrary XDD
Alas, here are some questions from myself and my friends about the mod, it will be one of the best day of my life if you can give us some answer sir!
1: Shields, especially those on larger ships, that can be targeted from very far away, currently break extremely easily due to the vast volume of mg fire from enemy ships and fighters, and due to the AI's lack of ability to respond quickly, ships often overload because of this. *(Interestingly, this also makes Domain-Era-Drones without shields fairly competent since they basically never overload)
May I ask if this is intended? If not, will there be "shield armor" value for larger capital ships in the future? If yes, is it possible to make ai react a bit better by lowering shields to take small arms fire on their armor?
2: In the conversation of the post, I have read that the "damage" of a projectile is first compared to "1/15 of the armor value." Combine that with your previous statement about hullmod, may I ask of the hull mod "Heavy Armor" does anything? It will be a great addition if it does, since now some 200-armor ships can become 700-amor ship, resisting machine gun fire, which makes a HUGE difference.
Please tell us if "Heavy Armor" hullmod works, that will be very, very cool!
3. Does the "remaining damage" left after a penetration increase the damage of the projectile?
Lets say round A deals 1250 damage, and round B deals 1000 damage, they both hit a 500-armor-value target. Do they do different damage compared to each other, since A has more "remaining damage" compared to B?
Furthermore, will this effect of "additional damage due to remaining damage" differ by the damage type and projectile type? For example, I would certainly expect HE, Energy, and KE projectile to behave this way, but I have some more doubts about beams and stuff.
4. Due to the problems mentioned in [1], the high-tech capital ships in game have a bit of a struggle when fighting against other capital ships due to their lack of armor.
Would you consider buffing their armor, or give "armor" to their shield, or buff their shield flux/damage?
I ask this because the high-tech ships have their strategy focused on shield, because in their "original, vanilla universe," they worry much less about machine guns constantly bombarding their shields from thousands of miles away, and certainly those designers who design these ships will definitely add more armor if they are in "this realistic universe," or at least have some sort of compensating "armored shield" or something.
I am aware that high-tech ships still have advantages, for example when comparing Paragon to Onslaught (XIV), like 2/3 the fuel cost, but in this comparison the paragon has vastly higher deployment and supply cost, yet their armor is their fatal flaw (1500 vs 1850). Still, I guess this will be less of a issue is Heavy Armor mod does work.
5. Would you consider putting out a small list of "Hull mod that works as described," "Crew skills that works as described," and also a list of stuff that just does not work? I know there is a similar "to-do-list", but it will be much, much more clear if there is an actual list about it, this way players can avoid taking useless skills as stuff. (I know AI does this too, wasting points. But it will certainly improve our experience playing the mod)
Alternatively, perhaps tooltips in game can be changed to tell us what works and what does not work. But I know that this may cause compatibility issues and can be time consuming, so all I ask for is a little list XDD.
Thank you so much sir! I cannot describe how happy I am to find out how active you are! It really is a dream-come-true for me, as in the past I have only been able to discover amazing projects abandoned, and now I see a masterpiece unfolding before my eyes!
QuoteFrom the short time I spent trying it, in mission AI battles torpedoes behave weirdly. AI would shoot reapers at nothing and they'd die after traveling a short distance.Huh, when you say die, do you mean flame out or be destroyed by point defense?
I got this issue as well. Take a reaper, shoot it and it decays at vanilla range. But guided missiles extended fine. I took some other mods like Unusual and Morehullmods, and they still extend the torpedo range based on vanilla. So likely that the vanilla value is not modified, I guess?
I played it a bit more, mainly early game stuff. Borer drones on Shepherds and Ventures are kinda a lot more lethal than they should be. I get that frigates(and some hightech destroyers even) are small fry, but they get melted way too quickly by the weakest type of fighter drones.
Lasers in general seem kinda strong, as genuinely awesome long range lasers are to watch. The roles get mixed up for me. What's tac lasers good for again, now that stronger stuff hits just as far
I felt like Atropos felt anemic just like Reapers do. Harpoons work great though.
Longbow sabot bombers don't seem to fire their payload until they're right on top of target enemy ships. Haven't tried other bombers yet.
Ship behavior is also weird. Since they cannot maneuver as easily, the AI makes them Tokyodrift sideways towards the enemy sometimes. Not ideal. Often happened with an AI wolf and the skimmer was wonky too.
Weapons still need a lot of work I feel. Is it intended for vulcan PDs to outrange heavy autocannons and match HVDs and even the gauss cannon? Early game seems like assault gun is useless compared to fragmentation PD like Vulcans.
Maybe some of this stuff is intended, and I need to reread your opening post and guide to understand the armor penetration mechanics better.
When I got used to zooming out, it became much easier to follow what's going on. Though I still preferred to let the AI do the piloting for me, not tired yet of watching cool space fights.
It's an awesome mod. I'll be playing with it more. Can't wait to see how it evolves. Looking forward to updates.
QuoteQuoteFrom the short time I spent trying it, in mission AI battles torpedoes behave weirdly. AI would shoot reapers at nothing and they'd die after traveling a short distance.Huh, when you say die, do you mean flame out or be destroyed by point defense?
I got this issue as well. Take a reaper, shoot it and it decays at vanilla range. But guided missiles extended fine. I took some other mods like Unusual and Morehullmods, and they still extend the torpedo range based on vanilla. So likely that the vanilla value is not modified, I guess?
I played it a bit more, mainly early game stuff. Borer drones on Shepherds and Ventures are kinda a lot more lethal than they should be. I get that frigates(and some hightech destroyers even) are small fry, but they get melted way too quickly by the weakest type of fighter drones.I do think PD weapons need some kind of adjustment to keep them in their niche, otherwise balancing is going to be way too hard.
Lasers in general seem kinda strong, as genuinely awesome long range lasers are to watch. The roles get mixed up for me. What's tac lasers good for again, now that stronger stuff hits just as far
I felt like Atropos felt anemic just like Reapers do. Harpoons work great though.
Longbow sabot bombers don't seem to fire their payload until they're right on top of target enemy ships. Haven't tried other bombers yet.
Ship behavior is also weird. Since they cannot maneuver as easily, the AI makes them Tokyodrift sideways towards the enemy sometimes. Not ideal. Often happened with an AI wolf and the skimmer was wonky too.
Weapons still need a lot of work I feel. Is it intended for vulcan PDs to outrange heavy autocannons and match HVDs and even the gauss cannon? Early game seems like assault gun is useless compared to fragmentation PD like Vulcans.
Maybe some of this stuff is intended, and I need to reread your opening post and guide to understand the armor penetration mechanics better.
When I got used to zooming out, it became much easier to follow what's going on. Though I still preferred to let the AI do the piloting for me, not tired yet of watching cool space fights.
It's an awesome mod. I'll be playing with it more. Can't wait to see how it evolves. Looking forward to updates.
My thoughts on the mod: it's an interesting take on Starsector combat and I like playing Rimworld with Combat Extended, so I was looking forward to trying this one. However, it seems that making this more realistic combat work for space battles is more tricky, it's more difficult to handle the inherent dynamic nature of it together with AI being silly. That said, I believe the mod has a lot of promise but it still requires a ton of work to make it worthwhile.
There are also various technical issues pointed out by other people, the one that's pretty much game-breaking to me is the fact that shields seem to be useless now - tested an Apogee vs a Bonnethead in a sim and in a few seconds the former got overloaded by a barrage from some light autocannons - small ballistic weapons vs a good (0.7 flux/dmg) shield. Also Tachyon lance didn't seem to be doing anything in that fight (to elaborate on this further - the big problem is that after the Apogee could not use its shields any longer, it also got quickly damaged by autocannons because they are kinetic weapons, so have good armor penetration. It could be argued that kinetics should no longer be specialized in shield-busting if they are also good at penetrating armor - they end up being just great for everything, maybe there shouldn't be anti-shield weapons at all? Or maybe it's energy weapons that should have anti-shield potential).
It seems that so much care went into developing armor-related mechanics that shields ended up very neglected by comparison.
So now I'm in an awkward position of not really feeling like playing with RC but going back to vanilla is going to be weird too because how very cramped everything will feel. Anyway, keep up the good work :)
I encounter an issue when I aim at smaller targets like a frigate the weapons range are redueced to minimal and cannot hit anything.
2. In addition or alternatively, giving "shield piercing" and not additional shield damage to kinetic rounds will also be a solution. In fact, this is similar to some shields depicted in sci-fi works, where a shield is more like a force field, meaning that extremely fast kinetic projectile can get through despite being slowed down (basically kinetic round does a bit of dmg to the shield, and gets through with reduced capability, and therefore can be negated by armor) This also comes with the benefit that AI can use their shield effectively with this change (basically they can just keep shield on against kinetics), as in current version their biggest problem is that they are unable to switch shield on and off effectively according to incoming rounds, currently often catching a huge wave of kinetics and overloading.
In fact, this change would makes kinetic weapons even more interesting, since now Large Kinetic weapons have the ability to directly damage small ships, going right through their shield (though their damage is slow lower), while such large kinetic weapons are no longer useful against capital with shield up as their penetration are drastically reduced by the shield. (they can still penetrate armor effectively against capital ships with shield down) Given how the recent cannon nerf, and the fact that there is no vanilla weapon that can do full damage to capital (1500-2250 armor, this calls for at least 1200 damage kinetics to do full damage), one may even consider raising large kinetic weapon damage, making a situation where large kinetic weapons could potentially fully penetrate capitals when their shield are down, but can only do partial/no penetration when the capitals have shields (with their decreased damage on shield, they will be much less useful in this stage)
IF we're going to do full on realistic combat, may I suggest maybe revamping the damage types? "High-explosive" makes a lot of assumptions on what the damage really is, and I would like to have a way to differentiate between HEAT-style, concussion-style, straight up nuke torpedoes, and maybe a way to get multiple-stage warheads like modern weapons do.
There's also kinetic rod AP and then straight up kinetic slug that spalls the armour.
If there's already a difference between energy beams and bolts, then what about EMP missiles? Those aren't really bolts and get brokenly powerful.
CR rating decrease based on hull instead of citadel damage makes less sense, the crew are mostly in the citadel and aren't so affected by hull integrity falling apart outside the citadel armour.
Some comments in the settings would go a long way to documenting what they do.
+++
Fighters can have a really hard time targeting each other, and so do some frigates. Maybe give them a range buff vs fast targets based on manoeuvrability?
Also, a fighter deployment range multiplier would be real nice.
A roadmap would be nice, yea. There is a list in the front page of possible future features, which is similar at least.
Shields are currently an issue, I agree.
Did some thinking on Shields, and specifically shield armor. Main issues I see are.
A: Shield armor isn't a vanilla stat, so it has to be derived in some way.
B: Kinetic damage is often in rapidfire kinetic weapons, but still intended to fight larger ships. So Damage comparisons probably make the Needler line, and Machine guns ineffective or useless vs shields.
Having it be based on Shield efficiency, flux/maxflux, Ship size (Fighter/Frigate etc) and maybe shield radius might work, and use weapon size more than damage might work.
Log10 of flux capacity, or Armor/ShieldEfficiency might give useful numbers for actual shield armor.
An entirely different shield mechanic, using the whole Deflection shield thing might also be interesting. Based on how well it penetrates, the projectile might be turned aside to an extent, either missing, or at least hitting the armor at an angle, and likely losing some fraction of speed and penetration power in the process.
---
Of course, the first question really needs to be, How do we want shields to behave? What weapons should be effective and what should be ineffective? And given the intention for realism, what mechanics can be used? I do certainly want to see ineffective shots pinging off of the shield as much as armor.
The big thing seems to be that point defense, normally trading range for massive DPS, gain a massive boost in range while retaining their massive DPS.
I would think that they probably should actually lose some amount of that DPS, simply because they have much longer to shoot at missiles. Alternatively, instead of adding a flat range bonus, you could add a percent bonus, or a combination of the two, so that short-range weapons remain rather short range.
Do you want point defense like the Machinegun to deal less damage, ping off of, or otherwise be ineffective vs Frigates? Destroyers? Cruisers? Capital Ships?
Should this be all small weapons, or just PD? Kinetic? I could absolutely see explosive weapons always bursting on the shield for minimal damage, in much the same way Kinetic usually pierces armor for minimal damage.
Many kinetic weapons are very rapidfire for consistant shield damage regardless of dodging or accuracy concerns, because vanilla shields have no armor. If resistance is in any way based on damage, Needlers, sabots, and machineguns will all be hit similarly, which is probably not ideal.
I honestly can't think of an obvious solution here. Not like with adjusting Frag damage.
I agree that shield are suffering greatly from the changes, and I have been thinking over it quite some time.
1. I wonder if giving "shield armor" value is gonna help with this problem, for example if larger ships or high tech ships have shield that simply nullifies smaller projectiles while having "partial penetrations" like armor does, then it would be more effective and makes for much more dynamic gameplay where weapon choices are even more interesting. (this doesnt need to be that strong, cruiser shield can make MG fire do partial dmg and capital shield can negate mg fire will be plenty of buff
2. In addition or alternatively, giving "shield piercing" and not additional shield damage to kinetic rounds will also be a solution. In fact, this is similar to some shields depicted in sci-fi works, where a shield is more like a force field, meaning that extremely fast kinetic projectile can get through despite being slowed down (basically kinetic round does a bit of dmg to the shield, and gets through with reduced capability, and therefore can be negated by armor) This also comes with the benefit that AI can use their shield effectively with this change (basically they can just keep shield on against kinetics), as in current version their biggest problem is that they are unable to switch shield on and off effectively according to incoming rounds, currently often catching a huge wave of kinetics and overloading.
In fact, this change would makes kinetic weapons even more interesting, since now Large Kinetic weapons have the ability to directly damage small ships, going right through their shield (though their damage is slow lower), while such large kinetic weapons are no longer useful against capital with shield up as their penetration are drastically reduced by the shield. (they can still penetrate armor effectively against capital ships with shield down) Given how the recent cannon nerf, and the fact that there is no vanilla weapon that can do full damage to capital (1500-2250 armor, this calls for at least 1200 damage kinetics to do full damage), one may even consider raising large kinetic weapon damage, making a situation where large kinetic weapons could potentially fully penetrate capitals when their shield are down, but can only do partial/no penetration when the capitals have shields (with their decreased damage on shield, they will be much less useful in this stage)
3. As for energy and HE projectiles, if we implement the changes of [2], then they could be kept as is, this also comes with the change that now energy projectile is a somewhat weaker but effective shield-breaker. Alternatively, one could also suggest that rather than "type of projectile," we should determine whether a projectile can go through shield by their velocity, therefore giving fast HE and energy projectile potential shield piercing ability. However, I am not sure about how easy this is to implement.
Again, thank you Liral for taking care of the project! Please let me know if you think this is feasible or makes logical sense, I would love to see this mod go further!
My thoughts on the mod: it's an interesting take on Starsector combat and I like playing Rimworld with Combat Extended, so I was looking forward to trying this one. However, it seems that making this more realistic combat work for space battles is more tricky, it's more difficult to handle the inherent dynamic nature of it together with AI being silly. That said, I believe the mod has a lot of promise but it still requires a ton of work to make it worthwhile.
There are also various technical issues pointed out by other people, the one that's pretty much game-breaking to me is the fact that shields seem to be useless now - tested an Apogee vs a Bonnethead in a sim and in a few seconds the former got overloaded by a barrage from some light autocannons - small ballistic weapons vs a good (0.7 flux/dmg) shield. Also Tachyon lance didn't seem to be doing anything in that fight (to elaborate on this further - the big problem is that after the Apogee could not use its shields any longer, it also got quickly damaged by autocannons because they are kinetic weapons, so have good armor penetration. It could be argued that kinetics should no longer be specialized in shield-busting if they are also good at penetrating armor - they end up being just great for everything, maybe there shouldn't be anti-shield weapons at all? Or maybe it's energy weapons that should have anti-shield potential).
It seems that so much care went into developing armor-related mechanics that shields ended up very neglected by comparison.
So now I'm in an awkward position of not really feeling like playing with RC but going back to vanilla is going to be weird too because how very cramped everything will feel. Anyway, keep up the good work :)
IF we're going to do full on realistic combat, may I suggest maybe revamping the damage types? "High-explosive" makes a lot of assumptions on what the damage really is, and I would like to have a way to differentiate between HEAT-style, concussion-style, straight up nuke torpedoes, and maybe a way to get multiple-stage warheads like modern weapons do.
There's also kinetic rod AP and then straight up kinetic slug that spalls the armour.
If there's already a difference between energy beams and bolts, then what about EMP missiles? Those aren't really bolts and get brokenly powerful.
And lastly, any damage taken on top of the sprite is counted as a citadel hit, which makes stuff like flak OP. Space ships are not 2D structures (not to mention that weapons and fighter bays are accessible from the top) and should have the armour on top be considered as armour and then figure some other arrangement out to have and render the hull (citadel) inside.
When in a pursuit situation, the bigger maps can place the flanks too far away, and the distance forwards that they are placed at do not scale with map size or is configurable. All pursuit engagements end up being a literal chase which is funny but not fun. Either allow us to scale the map width separately or add an offset distance to pursuit map flanks.
If the (surface) armour reaches 0 on any part of the ship (maybe when blasted off by high-explosives), I suggest that fragmentation ignore surface armour so that they still have some use even if they can't wreck the stuff further inside.
Fighters end up shrugging off point defense systems, and no hullmod or skills apply to increase damage dealt to fighters or missiles. Is there a conflict somewhere?
Can we at some point have an entirely custom bitmap for armour values so that ships aren't well-armoured all around? Especially engine sections and fighter bays.
Some comments in the settings would go a long way to documenting what they do.
Fighters can have a really hard time targeting each other, and so do some frigates. Maybe give them a range buff vs fast targets based on manoeuvrability?
Also, a fighter deployment range multiplier would be real nice.
Also, while reading the comments (holy ***, 80% of the discussions go right over my head) someone mentioned the issue of phase skimmers being rendered useless because of the range, and how recoding it would be too difficult. I don't know how hard coding ship systems is, but maybe a simple solution would be to overwrite the effect of phase skimmers with an ultra powerful, short duration temporal shell that reduces damage? Like 500-1000% time dilation for half or a quarter of a second. Would essentially be the same as skimmer, but could actually look even cooler.
I also want to add I find it amazing how everyone is super invested in this mod with their opinions and suggestions and how open minded you(Liral) are in face of all that. A+ mod, A++ modder.
Is there a way to disable the changes to weapon ammo/refire delays? I'm trying to adjust the values but some weapons just become incredibly strong by trying to normalize changes that made other weapons obsolete (why would the heavy autocannon have a refire delay of 8 seconds?)
Well if you're open to it, like you can see, people are glad to discuss it!QuoteI also want to add I find it amazing how everyone is super invested in this mod with their opinions and suggestions and how open minded you(Liral) are in face of all that. A+ mod, A++ modder.
People love to complain and argue on the internet, and I have little to no idea what I am doing, so I just let the users playtest, reply, and discuss ideas.
Speaking of discussing ideas, and implementing categories (that I assume can be tweaked), I think two things that would benefit a lot from categories are, if possible, weapons flagged as PD and fighters, so their range can be limited. I think it'd be the simplest way to be able to control (limit) their range because as it is, a lot of PD weapons outclass regular weapons in range and/or DPS, although less so after the latest version.QuoteIs there a way to disable the changes to weapon ammo/refire delays? I'm trying to adjust the values but some weapons just become incredibly strong by trying to normalize changes that made other weapons obsolete (why would the heavy autocannon have a refire delay of 8 seconds?)
No, though I may implement a sub-category of autocannons with high damage to accomodate this issue.
Speaking of discussing ideas, and implementing categories (that I assume can be tweaked), I think two things that would benefit a lot from categories are, if possible, weapons flagged as PD and fighters, so their range can be limited. I think it'd be the simplest way to be able to control (limit) their range because as it is, a lot of PD weapons outclass regular weapons in range and/or DPS, although less so after the latest version.
I recall from the field manual that the surface armour is 1/13 as thick as the citadel armour, and that the compartment is basically a buffer space between the surface armour and the citadel armour. A blast in the compartment should break up the surface armour and contribute to its failure. But that only applies if HE is a blast and not a penetrator.Quote
If the (surface) armour reaches 0 on any part of the ship (maybe when blasted off by high-explosives), I suggest that fragmentation ignore surface armour so that they still have some use even if they can't wreck the stuff further inside.
Anything powerful enough to blast the armor off a ship is powerful enough to blast the ship itself apart.
QuoteFighters end up shrugging off point defense systems, and no hullmod or skills apply to increase damage dealt to fighters or missiles. Is there a conflict somewhere?
Please elaborate: are they absorbing point defense weapon damage?
I think that PD weapons having really good range is because their projectiles have to be fast to hit small targets like missiles and they aren't blocked by other friendly ships.
The balance is that they usually arent too powerful, and future changes to shields may nerf down the damage.
The problem with PD having insane range is that AI targeting priority can be an issue since they like to shoot at the currently targeted ship.
I recall from the field manual that the surface armour is 1/13 as thick as the citadel armour, and that the compartment is basically a buffer space between the surface armour and the citadel armour. A blast in the compartment should break up the surface armour and contribute to its failure. But that only applies if HE is a blast and not a penetrator.
Some (heavy) fighters and gunships rely on armour, and with certain settings can become immune to point defences. There is no way to configure them separately from ship stats. Because armour does not degrade, if PD cannot damage them, then the target ship is effectively defenseless.
Also, I'm running Archean Order TC which has skills and hullmods buffing PD weapons against fighters by 250%, 200%... but this mod does not apply them.
QuoteThe problem with PD having insane range is that AI targeting priority can be an issue since they like to shoot at the currently targeted ship.
I think you mean that ships are wasting their limited PD ammo on ships that can absorb it easily. Care to elaborate?
I think that PD weapons having really good range is because their projectiles have to be fast to hit small targets like missiles and they aren't blocked by other friendly ships.
The balance is that they usually arent too powerful, and future changes to shields may nerf down the damage.
The shield changes are live, by the way.
Yes you're right, but also at the same time, in my game, PD can reload so it isn't that crippling.QuoteThe problem with PD having insane range is that AI targeting priority can be an issue since they like to shoot at the currently targeted ship.
I think you mean that ships are wasting their limited PD ammo on ships that can absorb it easily. Care to elaborate?
Fair enough... I guess blowing off armour with concussive blasts rather than explosively formed penetrators was too much.QuoteI recall from the field manual that the surface armour is 1/13 as thick as the citadel armour, and that the compartment is basically a buffer space between the surface armour and the citadel armour. A blast in the compartment should break up the surface armour and contribute to its failure. But that only applies if HE is a blast and not a penetrator.
~1/15th as thick, and remember that the citadel armor itself is quite thick at 150mm for even a Mudskipper (Armor Rating 150), so the surface armor would be 10mm or a full cm. Each combat screen pixel at 1:1 zoom is 25cm, so each armor grid cell is about 2m on a side. Destroying the surface armor covering one armor grid cell on a Mudskipper would entail blasting a 4m^2 hole through 1cm of composite armor--thereby likely disintegrating the Mudskipper.
QuoteSome (heavy) fighters and gunships rely on armour, and with certain settings can become immune to point defences. There is no way to configure them separately from ship stats. Because armour does not degrade, if PD cannot damage them, then the target ship is effectively defenseless.
Ok, now I understand better! Thanks for explaining. What "certain settings" are you talking about, and how do they make these heavy fighters and gunships immune?
Once that is fixed, it will cause another problem where fighters have weapon ranges being 2-5 times longer than the PDs, but even that problem is less frustrating than ships limiting themselves to using PD, and there's honestly worse problems to solve before that one.
Going back to AI quirks, some of those can be worked around with using Advanced Gunnery Control - e. g I can set PD weapons as "PD" so they only get used against fighters. I can tag expensive-to-fire weapons to not get fired above certain flux levels to alleviate the issue of overloading perhaps (I don't know yet how effective that will be).I have a message on there for 'PD-priority' so that PD can still shoot at ships once they have cleared out the missiles and fighters, PD damage is still damage after all, but I haven't tried out the new shields yet...
Ok, so what's going on with Autopulse Laser? It has 30 charges but I can't actually shoot them - I have to wait 12 seconds before each shot, that's not how autopulse laser is supposed to work (also it's pointless that it has 30 charges, or any charges at all, recharge time is shorter than re-fire delay). Perhaps recharge - re-fire should be swapped?
Limiting the range of weapons flagged for fighters would defeat the purpose of Realistic Combat: projectile weapons on fighters should out-range ones of equal muzzle velocity on ships because fighters can jink ship weapon projectiles at ranges within which ships cannot jink fighter weapon projectiles, and fighters therefore would carry weapons with muzzle velocities equal to those of the weapons in the small mounts of the ships they attack.
Please tell me more about the point defense weapons out-ranging their non-point-defense counterparts, though.It's not as dramatic anymore since yesterday's patch because now, cannons have more range, but since there's no distinction between PD and non-PD, they essentially have the same range as non-PD autocannon. For example, the Vulcan Cannon has a range of 4300, same as the Light Autocannon or the Light Assault Gun. Though that's only vanilla, some mod light PD weapons have ranges over 5500, but you can't exactly control those specifically.
My save game has 1.11.0 and works fine.
If I try to upgrade to 1.14.1, it crashes the game in combat screen. Any idea how to fix this?
Liral might want to actually detect and buff all PD weapons to increase their effective range against strike-craft, missiles, and highly manoeuvrable targets, with a smaller buff for all small mounts with good or better turn rate.
Another variable I think should be added to distinguish autocannons from cannon is the size; I changed my setting so I'm not 100% sure, but while on small mounts it was fine, on medium mounts and large mounts some autocannon counted as normal cannons, and if after modifying the files so all autocannons were autocannons, some canons end up in that category (like the Railgun). Maybe having a different threshold for different mount sizes would fix that?
I just discovered this mod and did a few sim battles to test it out a little. I still don't have a grasp of exactly how things work. I just know that everything is a lot faster and even PD weapons like LMGs have ranges in excess of 4000, which is insane to me.
My main question at the moment is how certain skills and hullmods will be balanced in light of all these changes. For example, the elite Point Defense skill and Advanced Optics hullmod which give flat bonuses of 200 to PD weapons and beam weapons, respectively. Is that flat bonus still a mere 200? Are such skills and hullmods essentially worthless now? How about elite Ballistic Mastery which gives 33% to ballistic projectile speed, is that worthless now since the base projectile speed is so high?
Aside from that I'd like to see things slowed down a bit. The ships are moving a lot quicker, projectiles are insanely fast and it's difficult to see the finer details of how a battle is progressing.
Another issue I see that mainly affects missiles is that some settings modify the amount of shots fired, max ammo, time to reload and reload amount, but missiles suffer most from this because some saturation missiles (like the Locust) end up barely shooting any missiles and have a significantly reduced ammo pool
My save game has 1.11.0 and works fine.
If I try to upgrade to 1.14.1, it crashes the game in combat screen. Any idea how to fix this?
755974 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at listeners.DamageTakenModifier.modifyDamageTaken(DamageTakenModifier.java:231)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:67)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:59)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.applyDamage(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
Im not sure but i think it could be related to this mod. This happened just randomly during a fight when i was shooting at an enemy ship.
Interesting, so I’ve run the usual sim against that Pather Bonnethead and with 1.15.0 the balance shifts hard against those little dual auto cannons — now they behave more like vanilla versions, having significantly less DPS. Needless to say that ship is now way weaker. Cannons seem to be doing fine though (tested against Dominator heavy assault sim).
Is that good?
That’s a good question :D
It’s difficult for me to say without playing more — the balance seems to shift quite a lot with each update.
The general feel I have is that kinetic weapons feel kinda more useful than other types (although I haven’t played much with HE yet).
Another notable thing is that utility of weapons seems to vary kinda wildly — some feel useless while others seem extremely good.
As a minor note — I’ve figured out why often at the beginning of simulations my ship would do this weird turning move, I think that AI engages its dodging behavior, trying to move more perpendicular to the enemy. It’s counterproductive but thankfully if I manually control the ship for a few seconds at the start it doesn’t seem to happen.
Also, with this update some weapon behavior changed dramatically, the question of whether it’s good or not is also to you, the mod designer.
I’m assuming that you have some sort of vision for how the weapons should behave but I don’t know what it is so I just report what I see :)
Testing the new version on [REDACTED] fleets.
It's impossible to win. A single Fulgent class ship just dominates two battleships easily. The rest I'd their fleet composition behaves normally, i think.
Just wanted to say that I'm enjoying the mod so far, one thing I noticed is using the Console Commands to set "god" doesn't make my ships invulnerable interestingly.
Is there a reason why it doesn't work despite saying that godmode has been enabled? Perhaps the way how Realistic Combat handles the damage stuff?
On a topic of balance and Qol.
1. Would it be possible to make a toggle or maybe there is already a setting to cut the range of the weapons in like half?
2. Can i get a toggle for that triangle thing? (And maybe for targeting pip too)
Also for the targeting pip it would be nice if it could be a bit smaller or if u could pick a size for urself.
(or maybe even delete it entirely for added difficulty)
After further testing i also have to say that [REDACTED] are just absurdly powerful now, at least relative to what the game tooltip says.
I encountered a 1 star group apparently and they completely anihalted me. I pretty much did 0 damage to them and they were all fast af.
Idk if they have like some specific buffs but it would be nice if they could maybe be nerfed just a bit so at least i'd have a fighting chance.
Just an add on, can you or did you start working on tooltips of shield, armor and weapon types? Cuz clearly this mod changes them completely already. It is very misleading to keep seeing things like "200% to armor, 50% to shield, 25% to hull" stuff anymore.
Penetration is what kinetic does, but it gets deflected by angled armor (Or u take it purely as thicker effective armor whatever). High explosive just does the damage in a different way, maybe contact fuze or proximity fuze or else, so it should less likely bounce off (At least given the warhead should be optimized this way, AND for game balancing).
Also for balancing, if you still leave that 50% load of high explosives to shield, bad idea! It almost makes it THE WORST option at all in almost any cases. Cuz u can deal prob same damage just with large kinetic bolt right? AND it's 200% good to shield AS WELL! Huh, then blind autocannon! Why not? Fast and through and bashes shields! The only single HE thing I used at all is just hellbore, for the 1050 bolt damage. And I don't even care if it's high explosive. If u give me another kinetic 1050 damage I'm more than happy to chuck hellbore into bin lol.
Definetly lots of balancing to do, but most importantly, I think you're lacking a systematic idea of the roles (or functions) design of each weapon in the first place. Maybe list these out first, like why would anyone use "a weapon" like autocannon or MG? And why would anyone not use that weapon? The specifications.
For example if u ask me why would I use autocannon, to anti shield, then u should make them bounce off armor, way easier. Only very straight hits go through.
MG for anti-air, then it should have less penalty with angle.
Or it could actually be the other way to be more real, u want me to use autocannon for AA and MG for shield? Fine. Then single hard hit on shields should be way softer. MG does 5,5,5,5,5 then its effectively 25 on shield, but a single 25 from ac would only hit as 17 or 18, and so on. But then vulcans fire really fast, so they should be really good to shield? Maybe, maybe not. Really suggest designing this first maybe as a roadmap and stick to it.
But now, AC got some penetration, pretty dead accurate, very good against shields, self sufficient ammo, and with vanilla PD hullmods I just spam this thing on all ships. MG or anthing else actually is completely useless in any aspect.
I really love the idea of introducing the real world scale and armor mechanisms, but don't want to lose it in balancing. The game provided you a good excuse, shields. It does't really exists, so even if a weapon is just in fact a really s**t idea in real life, u can still make it good in your balance system right?
Would it be feasible to add a toggle for the armor/shield damage calc's of ships and/or fighters, separately? I am intrigued by the possibilities that this option offers, if made available.
Edit: also, having a toggle for the target-leading pip, radar, and momentum indicator would be nice.
I also had the same thing happen as i reported before. As soon as i blew up enemy ship my game crashed with this:
3405750 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at listeners.DamageTakenModifier.modifyDamageTaken(DamageTakenModifier.java:249)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:67)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:59)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.applyDamage(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
So maybe there is still something to fix? It doesnt happen every time but like in 10-20% of the battles i would say
Why would fighters not have a realistic damage model? I just consolidated all the toggles into one.
QuoteAlso for balancing, if you still leave that 50% load of high explosives to shield, bad idea! It almost makes it THE WORST option at all in almost any cases. Cuz u can deal prob same damage just with large kinetic bolt right? AND it's 200% good to shield AS WELL! Huh, then blind autocannon! Why not? Fast and through and bashes shields! The only single HE thing I used at all is just hellbore, for the 1050 bolt damage. And I don't even care if it's high explosive. If u give me another kinetic 1050 damage I'm more than happy to chuck hellbore into bin lol.
Read the field manual: high explosive deals more damage if you penetrate the armor.
65655 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerExceptionD:
java.lang.NullPointerException
at settings.DamageModelSettings.getDamageTypeDamageFactor(DamageModelSettings.java:54)
at calculation.Damage.getPotentialDamage(Damage.java:52)
at calculation.Damage.getDamage(Damage.java:68)
at listeners.DamageTakenModifier.modifyDamageTaken(DamageTakenModifier.java:237)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:67)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:59)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.applyDamage(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.O0OO.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Quote65655 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerExceptionD:
java.lang.NullPointerException
at settings.DamageModelSettings.getDamageTypeDamageFactor(DamageModelSettings.java:54)
at calculation.Damage.getPotentialDamage(Damage.java:52)
at calculation.Damage.getDamage(Damage.java:68)
at listeners.DamageTakenModifier.modifyDamageTaken(DamageTakenModifier.java:237)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:67)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:59)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.applyDamage(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.O0OO.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
after updating to the newest version of your mod, shortly after starting a combat simulation
A minor nitpick, but would it be possible to provide separate download for the macosx one? I'm used to mods only requiring one extract into the mods folder for them to work. having to copy paste the regular version outside and overwrite the realistic combat folder is kind of a pain
Also keep up the good work.
100488 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at settings.DamageModelSettings.getDamageTypeDamageFactor(DamageModelSettings.java:54)
at calculation.Damage.getPotentialDamage(Damage.java:52)
at calculation.Damage.getDamage(Damage.java:68)
at listeners.DamageTakenModifier.modifyDamageTaken(DamageTakenModifier.java:237)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:67)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:59)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.applyDamage(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.A.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)Quote65655 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerExceptionD:
java.lang.NullPointerException
at settings.DamageModelSettings.getDamageTypeDamageFactor(DamageModelSettings.java:54)
at calculation.Damage.getPotentialDamage(Damage.java:52)
at calculation.Damage.getDamage(Damage.java:68)
at listeners.DamageTakenModifier.modifyDamageTaken(DamageTakenModifier.java:237)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:67)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:59)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.applyDamage(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.O0OO.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
after updating to the newest version of your mod, shortly after starting a combat simulation
A minor nitpick, but would it be possible to provide separate download for the macosx one? I'm used to mods only requiring one extract into the mods folder for them to work. having to copy paste the regular version outside and overwrite the realistic combat folder is kind of a pain
Also keep up the good work.
Same Test, little bit different error, no other Mods newest version.Code100488 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at settings.DamageModelSettings.getDamageTypeDamageFactor(DamageModelSettings.java:54)
at calculation.Damage.getPotentialDamage(Damage.java:52)
at calculation.Damage.getDamage(Damage.java:68)
at listeners.DamageTakenModifier.modifyDamageTaken(DamageTakenModifier.java:237)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:67)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:59)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.applyDamage(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.A.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Thank you for the continued work on this mod Liral!
I will test the new patch and hopefully we ll find out what causes this crash. Cause it must be this mod because i played with "replaceDamageModel":false, for a few hours now and had 0 crashes. So it must be that option causing issues.
Also, if you would like some faster and possibly more detailed feedback etc. you could join the unofficial discord cause forum posting is much slower (at least in my opinion).
Really? I did read the manual, but the high explosive hits are actually a LOT softer than I expected. My personal preference was assault chainguns but they were just not as effective as autocannons hitting armor.
I was thinking the other way around - fighters only having the calc's.
604340 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: 0
java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: 0
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.OoOO.T.isVisible(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.OoOO.T.isVisible(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.E.C.G.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.E.C.oooO.00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.E.C.Object.advanceImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Q.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.advanceImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Q.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)"You can adjust all the weapon range bonuses in WeaponSpecs.json"
In here the only thing I see adjustable is that of the range on launchers (Missile / Torp)?
I too am looking to half the range of all the weapons.
Just an add on, can you or did you start working on tooltips of shield, armor and weapon types? Cuz clearly this mod changes them completely already. It is very misleading to keep seeing things like "200% to armor, 50% to shield, 25% to hull" stuff anymore.
Penetration is what kinetic does, but it gets deflected by angled armor (Or u take it purely as thicker effective armor whatever). High explosive just does the damage in a different way, maybe contact fuze or proximity fuze or else, so it should less likely bounce off (At least given the warhead should be optimized this way, AND for game balancing). Also for balancing, if you still leave that 50% load of high explosives to shield, bad idea! It almost makes it THE WORST option at all in almost any cases. Cuz u can deal prob same damage just with large kinetic bolt right? AND it's 200% good to shield AS WELL! Huh, then blind autocannon! Why not? Fast and through and bashes shields! The only single HE thing I used at all is just hellbore, for the 1050 bolt damage. And I don't even care if it's high explosive. If u give me another kinetic 1050 damage I'm more than happy to chuck hellbore into bin lol.
Definetly lots of balancing to do, but most importantly, I think you're lacking a systematic idea of the roles (or functions) design of each weapon in the first place. Maybe list these out first, like why would anyone use "a weapon" like autocannon or MG? And why would anyone not use that weapon? The specifications.
For example if u ask me why would I use autocannon, to anti shield, then u should make them bounce off armor, way easier. Only very straight hits go through.
MG for anti-air, then it should have less penalty with angle.
Or it could actually be the other way to be more real, u want me to use autocannon for AA and MG for shield? Fine. Then single hard hit on shields should be way softer. MG does 5,5,5,5,5 then its effectively 25 on shield, but a single 25 from ac would only hit as 17 or 18, and so on. But then vulcans fire really fast, so they should be really good to shield? Maybe, maybe not. Really suggest designing this first maybe as a roadmap and stick to it.
But now, AC got some penetration, pretty dead accurate, very good against shields, self sufficient ammo, and with vanilla PD hullmods I just spam this thing on all ships. MG or anthing else actually is completely useless in any aspect.
I really love the idea of introducing the real world scale and armor mechanisms, but don't want to lose it in balancing. The game provided you a good excuse, shields. It does't really exists, so even if a weapon is just in fact a really s**t idea in real life, u can still make it good in your balance system right?
Currently shield logic follows armor logic - higher damage value will be more efficient. It could be argued that maybe doing the opposite would be more interesting, that's up for debate.
I wouldn't make HE fine against shields because it would make energy weapons the weakest link - either give energy weapons some specialization (like being actually good against shields) or keep it as is. My only gripe is that kinetic damage seems overall as the best, maybe lowering the damage it deals to hulls wouldn't be a bad idea.
Bug(?) report: this mod once more defaults to 'totalConversion: true' again in its mod_info.json file; intended-as-designed, or creator's error?
Request: Is there a way to disable Realistic Combat's radar? I prefer Combat Radar's implementation, as the unreleased dev version works with 0.95.1a (at a glance, anyways) and is far more configurable.
Any plans to integrate the Version checker mod?
Hotfix 1.17.2 is out!CTD with 1.17.2:
107498 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at settings.ThreeDimensionalTargeting.getStrafingAccelerationFactor(ThreeDimensionalTargeting.java:32)
at plugins.ThreeDimensionalTargeting.getStrafingAcceleration(ThreeDimensionalTargeting.java:24)
at plugins.ThreeDimensionalTargeting.getStrafingTime(ThreeDimensionalTargeting.java:28)
at plugins.ThreeDimensionalTargeting.anticipateStrafing(ThreeDimensionalTargeting.java:41)
at plugins.ThreeDimensionalTargeting.advance(ThreeDimensionalTargeting.java:80)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.Object.L$Oo.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.A.new.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
CTD with 1.17.2:Code107498 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at settings.ThreeDimensionalTargeting.getStrafingAccelerationFactor(ThreeDimensionalTargeting.java:32)
at plugins.ThreeDimensionalTargeting.getStrafingAcceleration(ThreeDimensionalTargeting.java:24)
at plugins.ThreeDimensionalTargeting.getStrafingTime(ThreeDimensionalTargeting.java:28)
at plugins.ThreeDimensionalTargeting.anticipateStrafing(ThreeDimensionalTargeting.java:41)
at plugins.ThreeDimensionalTargeting.advance(ThreeDimensionalTargeting.java:80)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.Object.L$Oo.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.A.new.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
CTD occurs with all options at their defaults, except for the 'totalConversion' flag in mod_info.json, which I have set to 'false'.
Any plans to integrate the Version checker mod?
Already done.
There is a problem with weapons I would call “burst cannons”, these are weapons like Uhlan Siege Laser or Blackout which have high damage but also a magazine that you’re supposed to be able to unload pretty fast, followed by a lengthier recharge process.
Unfortunately their assigned high refire delays make this whole mechanic broken.
One way to fix this is to check whether a cannon has ammo / charges and cap refire delay at, say 25% of its recharge time.
Now, if that makes them too strong it might be a good idea to make two changes:
- Cap refire delay at, say, 20% of its original recharge time.
- Extend recharge time by, say, 50% afterwards.
Also I looked at the Plasma Cannon and was wondering if those refire delays are not too long for some of those weapons — DPS of PC comes to 73 with that 11 sec delay. There are medium weapons that have DPS values above 100 though.
Meanwhile weapons that have somewhat lower damage get much higher effective DPS, like Super-Charged Pulse Beam that has 600 damage but gets 0.6 delay, which actually gives it the vanilla 1000 (250) DPS.
Also compare it to the Gauss Cannon that has 1000 damage and delay of 9 seconds — 111 effective DPS but if you look at vanilla DPS it’s supposed to be 350 vs PC’s 750, the relative damage rate of weapons in RC seems to be all out of whack...
I think it would be simpler to just apply a projectile speed/range multiplier to all projectile weapons. I think there's a wide enough armor range in vanilla to keep most weapons from being invalidated by the new armor system even without adjusting per-shot damage. Off the top of my head the only problematic ones are the Ion Pulser and IR Pulse Laser, which completely lose the ability to damage anything bigger than a destroyer.There is a problem with weapons I would call “burst cannons”, these are weapons like Uhlan Siege Laser or Blackout which have high damage but also a magazine that you’re supposed to be able to unload pretty fast, followed by a lengthier recharge process.
Unfortunately their assigned high refire delays make this whole mechanic broken.
One way to fix this is to check whether a cannon has ammo / charges and cap refire delay at, say 25% of its recharge time.
Now, if that makes them too strong it might be a good idea to make two changes:
- Cap refire delay at, say, 20% of its original recharge time.
- Extend recharge time by, say, 50% afterwards.
Also I looked at the Plasma Cannon and was wondering if those refire delays are not too long for some of those weapons — DPS of PC comes to 73 with that 11 sec delay. There are medium weapons that have DPS values above 100 though.
Meanwhile weapons that have somewhat lower damage get much higher effective DPS, like Super-Charged Pulse Beam that has 600 damage but gets 0.6 delay, which actually gives it the vanilla 1000 (250) DPS.
Also compare it to the Gauss Cannon that has 1000 damage and delay of 9 seconds — 111 effective DPS but if you look at vanilla DPS it’s supposed to be 350 vs PC’s 750, the relative damage rate of weapons in RC seems to be all out of whack...
Yeah... ugh. :( It's a pain to fix. I'm even thinking of scrapping the fire-rate and magazine adjustments entirely because of the unpredictable consequences.
Alternatively, why not do something like the reverse of the Split Chamber hullmod from More Hullmods? Scale every weapon's RoF, damage, magazine size, and ammo regeneration until it falls inside of some band you're satisfied with, like "all mediums should do at least 150 damage per hit". This changes a weapon's armor penetration without changing its effective DPS, so vanilla balance is still relatively preserved.
Is there a way I can specifically set the fighter craft of starsector to have reduced range more akin to their base game range? it feels odd to me having fighters engaging from the same ranges as other ships and is not nearly as visually impressive as the fighter battles of vanilla starsector.
Otherwise, I absolutely love the mod.
Is there a way I can specifically set the fighter craft of starsector to have reduced range more akin to their base game range? it feels odd to me having fighters engaging from the same ranges as other ships and is not nearly as visually impressive as the fighter battles of vanilla starsector.
data/config/ShipSpecs.json "fighterWingRangeFactor"QuoteOtherwise, I absolutely love the mod.
Woooo, thank you! Anticipate an update soon.
fun fact, OP! Ships can't actually go up or down. Space is functionally 2d. You increase your height by increasing your speed in the direction of travel, down against. Orbital dynamics, innit. SS's 2d plane is actually far closer to reality than Ace Combat In Space would be. Everyone says 2d is unrealistic but 3d is basically only realistic for aeroplanes
fun fact, OP! Ships can't actually go up or down. Space is functionally 2d. You increase your height by increasing your speed in the direction of travel, down against. Orbital dynamics, innit. SS's 2d plane is actually far closer to reality than Ace Combat In Space would be. Everyone says 2d is unrealistic but 3d is basically only realistic for aeroplanesWhat? Semantically you're right, up and down are relative in space, but you definitely can shift your orbit above and below the orbital plane if you want to, you know. Not entirely, of course, since you're still going to intersect it twice guaranteed, but there's nothing in physics that says ships can't. Besides, SS combat always takes place between fleets with matched orbits, since you aren't zooming past your opponent at hundreds of meters a second...
I have a problem with certain guns, I know that the mod fixes the fire rate of the weapon base on the damage, but some of the fire rates are way too damn slow, I was using an onslaught, and the thermal pulse laser fired a beam like every three 3 seconds everything else is great but dear god can I get a bit more brrrr with my guns. is there a way to fix it without changing anything else? I just need a bit more brrr with a specific weapon. but I love how it takes a while for some guns to reload makes you have to play a bit more smartly.
does anyone know how to set fighter weapon ranges back to normal
Patch 1.20.0 is out! Replaced all incompatible vanilla hullmods, made Three Dimensional Targeting toggle-able, reduced laser damage and missile and torpedo speed and acceleration, increased missile and torpedo maneuverability otherwise, and fixed problems with Detailed Combat Results.Do any of the 'data/config/Toggle.json' file options influence whether the 'replaced' hullmods are used, or not? Because while I occasionally use Realistic Combat's damage model, more often than not I use it for everything else except for said damage model.
Do any of the 'data/config/Toggle.json' file options influence whether the 'replaced' hullmods are used, or not? Because while I occasionally use Realistic Combat's damage model, more often than not I use it for everything else except for said damage model.
Oh, no, not that I can think of, now that you mention it. :-\ Hullmod loading is a .csv thing, but I will look into it.Yeah, I figured that one out by just appending a random three-letter extension to the hull_mods.csv filename (in my case, .org).
And a bug report; seems as though your intended 'fixes' to resolve issues with Detailed Combat Results don't work (that is, no values are given per ship/weapon) when most of the toggles are set to false, except for 'damageReducesCR' and 'modifyFighterSpecs', in a test run.
Ah, right, if you turn the damage model off, you also have to turn DCR's traditional collection back on in mod_info.json. Ugh, I should have thought of this. >:(I believe you meant 'data/config/settings.json', but yeah; changed "DetailedCombatResults_UseReportedDamagesOnlyV1" from true to false, reported numbers are now back.
Ah, right, if you turn the damage model off, you also have to turn DCR's traditional collection back on in mod_info.json. Ugh, I should have thought of this. >:(I believe you meant 'data/config/settings.json', but yeah; changed "DetailedCombatResults_UseReportedDamagesOnlyV1" from true to false, reported numbers are now back.
149554 [Thread-9] INFO sound.public - Creating streaming player for music with id [battle_ambience_01.ogg]
149554 [Thread-9] INFO sound.OooO - Playing music with id [battle_ambience_01.ogg]
149824 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at listeners.ThreeDimensionalTargeting.getWeaponBaseRangeMultMod(ThreeDimensionalTargeting.java:123)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.getWeaponBaseRangeMultMod(CombatListenerUtil.java:143)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.util.Misc.getAdjustedBaseRange(Misc.java:5901)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.ship.o0OO.getAdjustedBaseRange(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.MovingRay.<init>(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.O0oo.new(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.O0oo.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.ship.A.if.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.ship.A.if.fireProjectile(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.ship.trackers.new.øO0000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.ship.trackers.new.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.ship.trackers.D.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.ship.trackers.D.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.ship.trackers.new.String(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.ship.A.if.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)Hey, I think today's update might have a bug.
Whenever I get blown up during combat, my game hard crashes. Here's the log snippet:
Awesome, thanks! Love your mod!
The new version seems to bug out my combat messages.
While in combat the "ship xyz combat readiness low: retreating" type of chatter will just SPAM so hard it tanks my fps and fills up half the screen with the repeated text line blurring together into a wall.
The new version seems to bug out my combat messages.
While in combat the "ship xyz combat readiness low: retreating" type of chatter will just SPAM so hard it tanks my fps and fills up half the screen with the repeated text line blurring together into a wall.
Hi,
Just made an account to report the same issue as Slomes.
Could live with it, I suppose, but unsure how impactful it'll be if multiple ships start spamming the same chatter message. Betting it'll eventually kill the session if left alone long enough.
Noticing some oddities which I wasn't expecting since installing this mod a couple of patches ago.
Question: Does this mod adjusting something to ship shields and how they effect flux levels when hit?
Normally, shield hits would increase the hard flux. Rarely (Or occasionally from recent engagement) no hard flux is generated despite being hammered by anti-shield weapons.
Hey,
Thanks for the reply.
Anyway, that's the worse part of the issue I suppose.
Its really inconsistent on how to occurs.
Initially, it happened when the toggle for replaceDamageModel was turned to false. I thought that what triggered it in the first place.
Engaging another low tech station (which caused like the first instance of this happening) didn't cause the same fault as before. Heck, even turned on all the toggles back to 'default' true and the fault still didnt occur.
Lastly, I hate to report this but the chat spam seems to still be around for me. :'(
The new version seems to bug out my combat messages.
While in combat the "ship xyz combat readiness low: retreating" type of chatter will just SPAM so hard it tanks my fps and fills up half the screen with the repeated text line blurring together into a wall.Hi,
Just made an account to report the same issue as Slomes.
Could live with it, I suppose, but unsure how impactful it'll be if multiple ships start spamming the same chatter message. Betting it'll eventually kill the session if left alone long enough.
Hotfix 1.20.2 is out! Fixed endlessly-displaying retreat messages.
Hey,
Thanks for the reply.
Anyway, that's the worse part of the issue I suppose.
Its really inconsistent on how to occurs.
Initially, it happened when the toggle for replaceDamageModel was turned to false. I thought that what triggered it in the first place.
Engaging another low tech station (which caused like the first instance of this happening) didn't cause the same fault as before. Heck, even turned on all the toggles back to 'default' true and the fault still didnt occur.
Has this bug ever happened with the damage model turned on?QuoteLastly, I hate to report this but the chat spam seems to still be around for me. :'(
Aw man. What are the steps to reproduce this resilient bug?
In regards to the shield and flux issue, the fault rarely occurs which makes it difficult to say what caused it.
The chatter spam, though, is still around for me.
Ran another fresh install of the mod and found that ally ships would spam the log with their chatter. In a confirmed case, A single allied Kite calling out '10% combat readiness, retreating!'
Hm...do ships make call out like these whenever they get hit and they find that they're below a CR or Hull percentage to make the chatter?
Would hitting a ship running under the CR/Hull percentage with a rapid firing gun (EG: light machine gun) cause the AI to trigger the callout for every projectile hit?
Conversely, would this also apply whenever the ship fires their weapon under the same CR/Hull circumstances?
Edit: I think I managed to fix the spam issue by toggling off the CR effected by damage feature. I can live with this :)
Ok so I'm having trouble with the flux shield stuff too.
Just had my 300DP fleet engage a lowtech station and I couldnt finish the last module cause the shield just didnt take any damage and wouldn't go down.
Another problem i have with stations is my ships dont respect distance, they basically want to fly right on top of it. They always end up swarming in bumping distance around it, and my phase ships phase and go on top of it until they are about to run out of flux, which is when they back off to the edge, dephase, and get ramming damage...
The only thing that somewhat helps is the "avoid" command.
My Ziggurath kept trying to get close, then probably cause of the avoid command tried back off again after certain distance, and just kept doing it and doing it. inbetween it sometimes fires, but mostly it just keeps trying to mount that station lol
Ok so I'm having trouble with the flux shield stuff too.
Just had my 300DP fleet engage a lowtech station and I couldnt finish the last module cause the shield just didnt take any damage and wouldn't go down.
Uh-oh. Is this common for you, or is it the first time?QuoteAnother problem i have with stations is my ships dont respect distance, they basically want to fly right on top of it. They always end up swarming in bumping distance around it, and my phase ships phase and go on top of it until they are about to run out of flux, which is when they back off to the edge, dephase, and get ramming damage...
The only thing that somewhat helps is the "avoid" command.
My Ziggurath kept trying to get close, then probably cause of the avoid command tried back off again after certain distance, and just kept doing it and doing it. inbetween it sometimes fires, but mostly it just keeps trying to mount that station lol
Yeah, ships won't do what they should unless you tell them to in Realistic Combat. I wish I knew how to fix this problem. A Defend or Hold order a safe distance from the station might help until I, probably a while hence, could find out.
Not sure how common, definitely saw it on some of my own ships where they had 0 flux with shields up taking shots which were not beams. I think it doesnt realize properly what does hardflux. And it stays at 0 if flux dissipation is higher than the damage received+shield upkeep? Just my suspicion.
I already keep a strict leash on the ships with Defend orders, and it works great in fleet combat since they do what I tell them to, but with stations it just doesn't seem to work.
Asking around, ships don't understand the station part thats invincible is "something" in vanilla too, apparently? I tried station fight in vanilla earlier too, and the Ziggi didnt try to mount the station there tho, so something is up. I feel like unless ordered to back off, the ships kind of go into same combat range as they would in vanilla.
Not sure how common, definitely saw it on some of my own ships where they had 0 flux with shields up taking shots which were not beams. I think it doesnt realize properly what does hardflux. And it stays at 0 if flux dissipation is higher than the damage received+shield upkeep? Just my suspicion.
Guess I'll just force hard flux on projectiles. :/QuoteI already keep a strict leash on the ships with Defend orders, and it works great in fleet combat since they do what I tell them to, but with stations it just doesn't seem to work.
Glad you already use Defend orders to organize your fleet. I'm not sure what you mean by "doesn't" work" but might understand better if you elaborated.QuoteAsking around, ships don't understand the station part thats invincible is "something" in vanilla too, apparently? I tried station fight in vanilla earlier too, and the Ziggi didnt try to mount the station there tho, so something is up. I feel like unless ordered to back off, the ships kind of go into same combat range as they would in vanilla.
That's definitely odd. I wonder if Alex hardcoded anything. How often does this happen?
I feel like that could backfire, but I'm happy to test how it would go.
"doesn't work" as in usually if I say "defend", they will stick close to that spot most time. When there is a station, they will be rabid and try to get close to it anyways, but it seems there is a max range they will go which is like 2-4 large grid, not sure, but basically so far that it is unreasonable and not "defend"-like at all.
If I give them defend order and also give a "avoid" order on the station, they will keep about vanilla engagement range but tiptoe on the edge, which leads to them more than not flying up, turning around, circling back too.
There is also I think an issue with the hard forward thrust since there is no breaks and I have my carrier often just yeet into enemy fleet even though I assigned them cautious and ordered a "defend" at the far back. I don't know, AI is just derpy sometimes.
The Station stuff always happens. They all want to get into the station center. Regular ships cant tho, so they just go realllllly close to the station.
The Phase ships can bypass the limitation, so they will phase and get on top of it. Silly AI.
More notable on Battlestations than regulars so far though.
And in the testrun in vanilla the Phase ship didnt try to go right on top of it, but they all swarmed it too.
I don't manually pilot I let all ships AI, so it is different for me than for other players, who would just manually defeat the station while their fleets do whatever.
Hope that helps?
(Also Missile looping is gone and everything works well on that front)
For some reason, when I want shoot my weapons manually, it doesn't shoot and my range becomes very limited for some reason too. I really liked the realistic model damage part, but other than that I don't like long ranges and it's too hard to adjust them correctly. Sorry for my honesty
Every time that I start a battle after 2 seconds I encounter a fatal null error
java.lang.NullPointerException
at plugins.EveryFrameCombatPlugin.adjustAI(EveryFrameCombatPlugin.java:29)
at plugins.EveryFrameCombatPlugin.advance(EveryFrameCombatPlugin.java:53)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.Object.L$Oo.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.A.new.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
Disabling realistic combat seemed to stop it so I assumed it was incompatible with something.
Okay, let me rephrase. How can i set the range of all beams to the originalRange, without disabling WeaponSpecs entirely?
Is there a way I can specifically set the fighter craft of starsector to have reduced range more akin to their base game range? it feels odd to me having fighters engaging from the same ranges as other ships and is not nearly as visually impressive as the fighter battles of vanilla starsector.
data/config/ShipSpecs.json "fighterWingRangeFactor"QuoteOtherwise, I absolutely love the mod.
Woooo, thank you! Anticipate an update soon.
Is there a way I can specifically set the fighter craft of starsector to have reduced range more akin to their base game range? it feels odd to me having fighters engaging from the same ranges as other ships and is not nearly as visually impressive as the fighter battles of vanilla starsector.
data/config/ShipSpecs.json "fighterWingRangeFactor"
I just realized, I meant the range of the fighter weapons, its my fault, I should have been more clear. Is it possible to edit that?
I just realized, I meant the range of the fighter weapons, its my fault, I should have been more clear. Is it possible to edit that?
Hello so I've been trying out this mod and its quite awesome, but I just wanted to make you aware of a random bug you may or may not know of yet, I found the mining blaster weapon will not fire when this mod is active.
I just realized, I meant the range of the fighter weapons, its my fault, I should have been more clear. Is it possible to edit that?
Oh, no. The weapon ranges are edited all at once.
Every time that I start a battle after 2 seconds I encounter a fatal null error
java.lang.NullPointerException
at plugins.EveryFrameCombatPlugin.adjustAI(EveryFrameCombatPlugin.java:29)
at plugins.EveryFrameCombatPlugin.advance(EveryFrameCombatPlugin.java:53)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.Object.L$Oo.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.A.new.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
Disabling realistic combat seemed to stop it so I assumed it was incompatible with something.
I've never had this error but added another null check just in case. I hope it helps.
So ive installed the latest version of this game but it seems there is a bug that messes with the way my weapons fire
I have to constantly switch between weapon groups to fire them
even autofire wont fire weapons
sometime exiting phase space allows them to fire
however it seems the AI does just fine
Okay, let me rephrase. How can i set the range of all beams to the originalRange, without disabling WeaponSpecs entirely?
You can't, and why would you want to do that, anyway? The range of beams would be tiny compared to everything else.
668501 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at scripts.Retreat.reportRetreat(Retreat.java:42)
at scripts.Retreat.order(Retreat.java:54)
at plugins.EveryFrameCombatPlugin.advance(EveryFrameCombatPlugin.java:61)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.Object.L$Oo.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.A.new.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
668585 [Thread-9] INFO sound.public - Creating streaming player for music with id [CatastrophicSystemsFailure.ogg]
668587 [Thread-9] INFO sound.OooO - Playing music with id [CatastrophicSystemsFailure.ogg]So far fighters are very mixed with some having 100-800 firing range, and others having 6000-10000+.
I would say with an engagement range of usually 10k+ having similar firing range to regular ship weaponry is overkill.
I would like to see fighters have some reduced gun firing range too, more in the 1-4k range, since they have a huge engagement range already and are super fast. They could be even a little bit faster in return too.
Right now they can just fly everywhere and shoot anything. No need to actually fly towards a ship.
Some have mini gun variants which have low range, others carry exactly the same guns as regular ships with the unreasonable range (and effectively firepower).
I guess thats on the modders making the jets, but still.
A wing of fighters with 6 jets shooting with regular guns from RC distance is just bonkers.
Heya im getting nullpoint error crashes when entering or shortly after entering combat, and I think it is because of newest RC,
cause I haven't updated anything else related to combat:Code668501 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at scripts.Retreat.reportRetreat(Retreat.java:42)
at scripts.Retreat.order(Retreat.java:54)
at plugins.EveryFrameCombatPlugin.advance(EveryFrameCombatPlugin.java:61)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.Object.L$Oo.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.A.new.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
668585 [Thread-9] INFO sound.public - Creating streaming player for music with id [CatastrophicSystemsFailure.ogg]
668587 [Thread-9] INFO sound.OooO - Playing music with id [CatastrophicSystemsFailure.ogg]
Any ideas?
So ive installed the latest version of this game but it seems there is a bug that messes with the way my weapons fire
I have to constantly switch between weapon groups to fire them
even autofire wont fire weapons
sometime exiting phase space allows them to fire
however it seems the AI does just fine
Well, I have set the muzzle levoity to 1, so that the range would be set as the speed of the weapon accordingly and that's fine with me. I don't understand how the calculator calculates the range for beams
So far fighters are very mixed with some having 100-800 firing range, and others having 6000-10000+.
Wait what? Please tell me which weapons and fighters.QuoteI would say with an engagement range of usually 10k+ having similar firing range to regular ship weaponry is overkill.
I would like to see fighters have some reduced gun firing range too, more in the 1-4k range, since they have a huge engagement range already and are super fast. They could be even a little bit faster in return too.
Right now they can just fly everywhere and shoot anything. No need to actually fly towards a ship.
Some have mini gun variants which have low range, others carry exactly the same guns as regular ships with the unreasonable range (and effectively firepower).
I guess thats on the modders making the jets, but still.
A wing of fighters with 6 jets shooting with regular guns from RC distance is just bonkers.
I'll add a fighter non-launcher muzzle velocity factor in the next release.Heya im getting nullpoint error crashes when entering or shortly after entering combat, and I think it is because of newest RC,
cause I haven't updated anything else related to combat:Code668501 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at scripts.Retreat.reportRetreat(Retreat.java:42)
at scripts.Retreat.order(Retreat.java:54)
at plugins.EveryFrameCombatPlugin.advance(EveryFrameCombatPlugin.java:61)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.Object.L$Oo.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.A.new.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
668585 [Thread-9] INFO sound.public - Creating streaming player for music with id [CatastrophicSystemsFailure.ogg]
668587 [Thread-9] INFO sound.OooO - Playing music with id [CatastrophicSystemsFailure.ogg]
Any ideas?
I've added a null-check to that method for the next release.So ive installed the latest version of this game but it seems there is a bug that messes with the way my weapons fire
I have to constantly switch between weapon groups to fire them
even autofire wont fire weapons
sometime exiting phase space allows them to fire
however it seems the AI does just fine
Uh-oh. Please tell me more about this problem.Well, I have set the muzzle levoity to 1, so that the range would be set as the speed of the weapon accordingly and that's fine with me. I don't understand how the calculator calculates the range for beams
The muzzle velocity factor in WeaponSpecs.json, you mean? Realistic Combat forces non-launcher projectile weapon range and muzzle velocity to be equal for any muzzle velocity factor, so the range would be set as the speed regardless of what you had set that factor to be. Beam weapon range depends on intensity because of diffraction, so adjust the beam weapon factors in the same file, remembering that diffraction is inverse-square, so increasing the intensity to increase range will also increase close-range damage.
Every time that I start a battle after 2 seconds I encounter a fatal null error
java.lang.NullPointerException
at plugins.EveryFrameCombatPlugin.adjustAI(EveryFrameCombatPlugin.java:29)
at plugins.EveryFrameCombatPlugin.advance(EveryFrameCombatPlugin.java:53)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.Object.L$Oo.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.A.new.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
Disabling realistic combat seemed to stop it so I assumed it was incompatible with something.
I've never had this error but added another null check just in case. I hope it helps.
I've had similar problem and I solved it by increasing memory in vmparams. Now, currently, I have -Xms6144m -Xmx6144m with the mods that I have enabled. I've never seen it again.
Nice mod! Playing with it a bit and noticed my aurora instantly fills up the flux bar occasionally. Turns out it rapid fires its heavy blaster sometimes, while on autopilot. I can reproduce this by running a simulation, setting the ship to target the enemy ship, then unpausing. The autopilot rapid fires the heavy blaster and fully fills up its flux, to 99%. I have definitely noticed this happening on other ship with a heavy blaster. Not sure if this is a heavy blaster specific issue or if other weapons will also rapid fire. Hope this helps, thanks.
Image of reproducing bug: https://imgur.com/aFas1PX
Well I've already tried reinstalling the mod if there was something missing but it didn't work the problem with my weapons still persist however it seems whatever is causing it is not effecting missiles, missiles seem to fire fine and on command I've also tried changing the key bind to see if it was my mouse but that didn't work
Ive Reverted back to version 18 so i can actually use the mod and be able to fire my guns
i noticed a bug immediately after i installed only this mod, my mining blaster simply doesnt work, ive had it fire sometimes but the recharge bar at the bottom when the weapon is selected often starts unfilled and never fills up
edit: i went to test more and i can fire infinitely and rapidly if i switch from one weapon group to the mining blaster and click a bunch
edit edit: light autocannons and vulcans also wont fire
Love this mod so far but every time I enter combat with allie, I get massive retreat message spam and it lags the game so badly. I try re-download the mod with the latest update where the bug says to be fix but I still get the same bug.
i noticed a bug immediately after i installed only this mod, my mining blaster simply doesnt work, ive had it fire sometimes but the recharge bar at the bottom when the weapon is selected often starts unfilled and never fills up
edit: i went to test more and i can fire infinitely and rapidly if i switch from one weapon group to the mining blaster and click a bunch
edit edit: light autocannons and vulcans also wont fire
The mining blaster didn't fire for me before either (as another user has reported) but whatever I've done recently has solved this problem, so expect it fixed in the new version.
everything else has been quite interesting changes but i just started and it disabled some of my most useful weapons, glad to see your so active with bugfixes, how soon do you think the next patch will be out?
Hotfix 1.20.3 is out! Disabled retreat messages because endlessly-displaying last hotfix has not fixed endless displaying. Fixed a null-pointer exception in the retreat order method and the gun-locking code making some non-launcher projectile weapons spam and others lock up. Expanded gun-locking to prevent firing non-launcher projectile weapons until and unless they are in range and on target, that is, pointed at the lead indicator.
Oh, we also have a new video in screenshots and videos if you'd care to watch... :D
Hotfix 1.20.3 is out! Disabled retreat messages because endlessly-displaying last hotfix has not fixed endless displaying. Fixed a null-pointer exception in the retreat order method and the gun-locking code making some non-launcher projectile weapons spam and others lock up. Expanded gun-locking to prevent firing non-launcher projectile weapons until and unless they are in range and on target, that is, pointed at the lead indicator.
Oh, we also have a new video in screenshots and videos if you'd care to watch... :D
Wow! I'm glad and impressed that Realistic Combat got you back into the game. I want to know where exactly you think the mod needs polish so I can apply it there.
Damn, I didn't expect the fix will come so fast but thank you so much!! Appreciate it :D The bug is now gone.
The faq says
"Q: Why don't my guns shoot?
A: Non-missile projectile weapon on any ship can fire beyond range of the target selected by the autofire AI of that weapon or, if the weapon is in the selected weapon group, the captain of the ship whether AI or player."
I don't understand the answer. It says that non missiles can fire beyond the range of autofire AI, but how does that help me when my non missile weapons won't fire?
Wow! I'm glad and impressed that Realistic Combat got you back into the game. I want to know where exactly you think the mod needs polish so I can apply it there.
Made a complementary mod to adjust the following:
- Skilltree
- Bonuses / Stats
- Rewrote some Skills
- Weapons
- Offensive Behaviour (e.g. Higher Travelspeed / Accuarcy / Penetration ..)
- Defensive Behaviour (e.g. Higher Damge to Fighters and Missiles / better incoming Misslie tracking / larger Fragmentationradius ..)
- Shiploadouts
- Factions adjust their Invasion / Strike / Vengeance shiploadouts to counter your fleet loadout and doctrine. *reused Doritos code partially
- Engagement
- Your and enemy fleet deploy from a randomly choosen point on the map, sometimes quite close, but never ontop of each other.
See PELAGORNIS from MISSP (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=16160.0) as a prime example for swarming the enemy with Fighters.
But with the adjusments I did, non Fighter Bay Fleets are evenly matched with the ones with, depending on the engagement.
The Metalafica from TAHLAN (https://https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=14935.0) with a defensive support ship, an escrot to incercept incoming Fighters / Missiles and small frigattes, will go completly bonkers.
In general the outcome of the battle heavily depends on the point of deployment and fleet composition.
Like, I killed a Vengeance Fleet LvL 3 with ease but got shredded by another due to unlucky point of deployment and fleet composition.
The faq says
"Q: Why don't my guns shoot?
A: Non-missile projectile weapon on any ship can fire beyond range of the target selected by the autofire AI of that weapon or, if the weapon is in the selected weapon group, the captain of the ship whether AI or player."
I don't understand the answer. It says that non missiles can fire beyond the range of autofire AI, but how does that help me when my non missile weapons won't fire?
Having the same issue for both autofire and manual control, and I'm not sure that its that I'm missing something, since it seems more like a bug. Missiles and beam weapons seem to work fine, but any other projectile weapons don't. On occasion, projectile weapons will fire a single shot the first time they're used in a battle, but other than that, nothing. I did get one to fire a burst when I used a beam weapon and swapped weapon groups to the projectile weapon while still using the beam weapon. Haven't been able to do it a second time. Game is a fresh install of the most recent update. Tested with no mods and had the same issue.
Hotfix 1.20.3 is out! Disabled retreat messages because endlessly-displaying last hotfix has not fixed endless displaying. Fixed a null-pointer exception in the retreat order method and the gun-locking code making some non-launcher projectile weapons spam and others lock up. Expanded gun-locking to prevent firing non-launcher projectile weapons until and unless they are in range and on target, that is, pointed at the lead indicator.
Oh, we also have a new video in screenshots and videos if you'd care to watch... :D
Thank you for the update. With version 1.20.3, I'm still getting the same issue with the heavy blaster on the aurora (and fury) on autopilot. It does appear other weapons suffer from the same bug. The Mule (P) Standard Combat Freighter I ran simulation tests against also shoots it's flux up to 99% at the start of the engagement, before any weapon impacts. Hope this helps and thank you for the quick response.
Nice mod! Playing with it a bit and noticed my aurora instantly fills up the flux bar occasionally. Turns out it rapid fires its heavy blaster sometimes, while on autopilot. I can reproduce this by running a simulation, setting the ship to target the enemy ship, then unpausing. The autopilot rapid fires the heavy blaster and fully fills up its flux, to 99%. I have definitely noticed this happening on other ship with a heavy blaster. Not sure if this is a heavy blaster specific issue or if other weapons will also rapid fire. Hope this helps, thanks.
Image of reproducing bug: https://imgur.com/aFas1PX
im also still having problems manually shooting guns, same issue as the person above is saying except my turrets only fire on autofire, and i cant manually shoot them, but i can get them to rapidly fire and build up infinite flux by switching to them and holding click
Nice mod! Playing with it a bit and noticed my aurora instantly fills up the flux bar occasionally. Turns out it rapid fires its heavy blaster sometimes, while on autopilot. I can reproduce this by running a simulation, setting the ship to target the enemy ship, then unpausing. The autopilot rapid fires the heavy blaster and fully fills up its flux, to 99%. I have definitely noticed this happening on other ship with a heavy blaster. Not sure if this is a heavy blaster specific issue or if other weapons will also rapid fire. Hope this helps, thanks.
Image of reproducing bug: https://imgur.com/aFas1PX
In regards to overfluxing, I use Advanced Gunnery Control mod, which lets you give your ships AIs ground rules on how to operate its weapons!
Thank you for the update. With version 1.20.3, I'm still getting the same issue with the heavy blaster on the aurora (and fury) on autopilot. It does appear other weapons suffer from the same bug. The Mule (P) Standard Combat Freighter I ran simulation tests against also shoots it's flux up to 99% at the start of the engagement, before any weapon impacts. Hope this helps and thank you for the quick response.
D: It's still there? It didn't happen when I tested before release, so I doubt I can reproduce it now. I am trying to think of a cause but cannot imagine one. I may need your help fixing this bug.
im also still having problems manually shooting guns, same issue as the person above is saying except my turrets only fire on autofire, and i cant manually shoot them, but i can get them to rapidly fire and build up infinite flux by switching to them and holding click
D: D: D: Does this bug happen even when they are on target?
Having the same issue for both autofire and manual control, and I'm not sure that its that I'm missing something, since it seems more like a bug. Missiles and beam weapons seem to work fine, but any other projectile weapons don't. On occasion, projectile weapons will fire a single shot the first time they're used in a battle, but other than that, nothing. I did get one to fire a burst when I used a beam weapon and swapped weapon groups to the projectile weapon while still using the beam weapon. Haven't been able to do it a second time. Game is a fresh install of the most recent update. Tested with no mods and had the same issue.
Uh-oh! If your guns were in range and on target (see FAQ "Why won't my guns shoot?") then this problem is a bug, to fix which I would need reproduction steps.
I do use that mod, but the overfluxing is from a bug. Certain weapons are rapid firing beyond their stats. Heavy blasters aren't supposed to fire like a minigun-- see my screenshot.
Hmm if there's a way I can help, let me know! I just tested with a new game, only mods installed are this one and Nex (with dependencies). Loaded up with an aurora heavy blaster - same issue on autopilot.
im not sure what you mean, they only fire when i select a different weapon and let autofire take over, but i can still manually aim and fire lasers and missiles, like i just did a sim against a brawler gunship and it shot both its arbalest cannons 10 times each and instantly destroyed my ship, so i think ai have this burstfire nug as well, but on my ship i cant fire any weapon that seems to have a kinetic projectile, ir pulse lasers, ion cannons, autocannons, i cant fire any of them myself
To be clear, when testing yesterday, I did have the enemy targeted, my weapons were in range, and the target was within their firing arc.
Point defense weapons also did not fire at any missiles when testing.
Anyways... I went to go reproduce yesterday's issue and record what was happening, but before I did that I turned the mod off then on again. Now autofire and manual fire works for every weapon and things work perfectly... I also did that yesterday but still had issues.
Not entirely sure what was causing the issue in the first place, but I'm glad that it works now.
Been messing around in game since and I'm loving how this mod changes gameplay. Keep up the good work.
i tried what the person above did even disabling, loading in, exiting the game and then enabling and restarting, and manual fire only worked when the mod was disabled
edit: tried turning off modifyweaponspecs but it just made the range smaller, and i also dont even see a lead indicator...
it just started randomly working, i cant even
as long as it stays that way i guess i dont mind
regarding borked gun ranges generally and on fighters
generally: guns from various mods have odd numbers, heres some examples
"Philip Andras Gas Station Manager" Syndrian Diktat mod guns have weird ranges, but they are still workable I guess
then there "Neutrino Corporation: Nostalgia Edition" guns that are all inbetween <1000 to 5000 which is very bad.
That is except this Pulsar Cannon and Magnetar Burster PD thing that has what 30k range or so lol
Then there is guns from "Amazigh's Ship Foundry", Kabid Volley gun has 40k range, Kufikiri Smartgun has 467 range, among others
"Stop Gap Measures" Heavy Mining Beam has 2415 range
"Ship/Weapon Pack" Light Phase Lance has 1985 range (regular vanilla Phase lance also has unusable 2628 range. I get lower range for high damage beam, but the stats arent that good to varrant such a low range. if you have a gun with 1/4th the damage, but 4x the range, it will be better since it engages earlier and can do more damage while also not needing to get into dangerous range. I had phase lances on a ship and it was a phase one that could get close, but the burst damage wasnt even strong enough to scratch shields.)
"Tahlan Shipworks" basically all Great Houses weaponry has 2-4x the range guns normally have
and theres a bunch of others, its just hard to pick them out manually
Seems the mod compability isnt quite there yet for properly adjusting stuff from modded guns (just as many mod guns have reasonable range though!)
Regarding the Fighters, also hard to give you specifics cause screenshotting and alt+shift+S are so buggy in Starsector its a major pain in the head.
basic vanilla Talon Wing LPC has 8000 range vulcan cannon, and 12000 engagement range. so effectively 20k force projection with a wing of Talons having a combined 4x Vulcans, needing 2 OP to slot. Talon also has 625 speed. Meanwhile slotting a single vulcan on a frigate would cost 4 OP.
Vanilla Mining Pod LPC has no engagement range, so the 4x mining beams with 6880 range are not as busted as the talon for example, but its still 0 OP cost slotting and 0 engagement rang emeans they fly around the mothership. so thats 4 free mining beams for PD for 0 OP, while using ship hardpoints would cost you 8 OP.
Vanilla Peridition Bomber LPC has 12000 engagement range, but can shoot its hammer torpedo from 13200 range and is a wing of 3. at least it has 20 OP, but afaik fighters return to ship for rearming, and with hammer range > engagement range, they can just come out, shoot 3 torpedos, return to ship. Kinda hmmmm.
all "Neutrino Corp" LPCs look like they have vanilla <1000 ranges.
etc.
I feel like LPCs should have fire ranges maybe in the 1000-4000 range or so, warranting them flying fast and far, but needing to step up more. but not sub 1000 cause then they are so close its like a swarm of mosquitos harassing a ship. But then again maybe thats how they should be? I don't know really since I only played with your mod basically :D
LPCs definitely feel off atm though, and numbers are all across the board.
One step at a time :)
So when I had the issue last night, I tried the following:
ballistics projectile weapon on manual - not targeting a ship, not aiming at a ship - DID NOT FIRE (note, occasionally, a single shot would fire when left clicking at the very start of the round)
ballistics projectile weapon on manual - not targeting a ship, aiming at a ship - DID NOT FIRE
ballistics projectile weapon on manual - targeting a ship, not aiming at a ship - DID NOT FIRE
ballistics projectile weapon on manual - targeting a ship, ship in arc, ship out of range - DID NOT FIRE
ballistics projectile weapon on manual - targeting a ship, ship in arc, ship in range - DID NOT FIRE
ballistics projectile weapon on autofire - not targeting a ship, not aiming at a ship - DID NOT FIRE
ballistics projectile weapon on autofire - not targeting a ship, aiming at a ship - DID NOT FIRE
ballistics projectile weapon on autofire - targeting a ship, ship in arc, ship in range - DID NOT FIRE
energy projectile weapon on manual - not targeting a ship, not aiming at a ship - DID NOT FIRE
energy projectile weapon on manual - targeting a ship, ship in arc, ship in range - DID NOT FIRE
energy projectile weapon on autofire - targeting a ship, ship in arc, ship in range - DID NOT FIRE
energy beam weapon on manual - not targeting a ship, not aiming at a ship - SUCCESS
energy beam weapon on manual - targeting a ship, ship in arc, ship in range - SUCCESS
energy beam weapon on autofire - targeting a ship, ship in arc, ship in range - SUCCESS
ballistics point defense on autofire - ship in arc, ship in range - DID NOT FIRE
ballistics point defense on autofire - missile in arc, missile in range - DID NOT FIRE
energy beam point defense on autofire - ship in arc, ship in range - SUCCESS
energy beam point defense on autofire - missile in arc, missile in range - SUCCESS
missile weapon on manual - not targeting a ship - SUCCESS
missile weapon on manual - targeting a ship - SUCCESS
missile weapon on autofire - targeting a ship - SUCCESS
(Ballistics tested with every type of ballistic weapon I could get in 30 min)
Misc bugs(?) from last night:
Occasionally, when using a beam weapon, if you hold left mouse, then switch to a projectile weapon, it will fire a high speed burst of shots.
As of today:
many point defense projectile weapons on autofire - targeting a ship, ship is out of range - CONSTANT FIRE - the projectiles would fade before reaching even 5% of the distance to the target, making them wasted shots
Ah, yeah, assume that if I said "targeting a ship, ship in arc, ship in range" that means I've targeted the ship with the key command, I'm in range, and the weapon is lined up on the lead indicator.
would this mod affect timid and cautious captains engagement distance? my timid captain has retreated from battle immediately after deployment from a pirate station and it is infuriating me that my rank 5 captain is absolutely useless even when i order him he says *** you and ignores the order after a second
Ah, yeah, assume that if I said "targeting a ship, ship in arc, ship in range" that means I've targeted the ship with the key command, I'm in range, and the weapon is lined up on the lead indicator.
Thanks for clarifying. Do you remember any particular ballistic or energy projectile weapons in vanilla to have had this problem?
Unfortunately, not off the top of my head. I went through a number of them when testing, including vanilla and modded weapons, but since I don't seem to have that issue anymore, I can't check which ones it was.
Yikes! That's not what I wanted to happen. First, if you remember, did all the non-launcher projectile weapons have a range that was a multiple of ten? I want to know if the range modification code even ran on them because the SmartGun, if it fires projectiles, should not have a range ending in 7.
Wait, isn't that the intended effect in Vanilla?
large beam w/ 5104 range - PA Gas station
large beam w/ 6903 range - Stop Gap Measures
large beam w/ 5582 range - Tahlan Shipworks
large beam w/ 4626 range - Neutrino Corp
large beam w/ -50 range (lol) - Neutrino Corp "Fusion Lance"
large beam w/ 13875 range - Seeker
large beam w/ 4485 range - Seeker
large beam w/ 5017 range - NSW
large beam w/ 4035 range - Neutrino
large beam w/ 8325 range - vanilla Palladin PD weapon
large beam w/ 3942 range - Tahlan Shipworks
medium beam w/ 2576 range - Neutrino
medium beam w/ 2415 range - Stop Gap Measures
medium beam w/ 2628 range - vanilla Phase Lance weapon
medium beam w/ 1987 range - Neutrino
small beam w/ 1985 range - Ship/Weapon Pack
small beam w/ 1924 range - Neutrino
medium ballistic beam w/ 467 range - the prev mentioned Kufikiri Smartcannon
And that's it on all non missile weapons I discovered so far (I have no spoiler mod for info directory).
The odd single digit are all beams.
All the Neutrino weapons are energy based.
Ballistic weapons all look good (except that one ballistic beam which has the 467 range.)
Missile ranges are all healthy.
So seems to me there is something up with energy generally, and specifically with beams.
Modded ballistics are all properly converted. Although I noticed the small mortar now only has 5000 range, think it had more a some patch ago. It's outranged by 2000 by a "Scattergun" cone volley PD weapon, which is weird for a "mortar" which are typically long ranged weapons.
Yea I just mentioned it because of the mining beam range. Fighter guns range = ship guns range is kind of op.
Hope this helps!
What is a ballistic beam?
Now that i take a closer look at this gun, its one nutty piece of gear lol
Edit: btw I've noticed that after your fix for the Combat Results mod it doesnt show fighter damage anymore (it used to show fighters as damage under the mother ship, which was good to see how they fare), although everything else is good now.
(https://i.imgur.com/226Lpj2.png)
Wait, it no longer shows fighter damage!? D: Please list reproduction steps.
15198277 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at calculation.Lead$WeaponGroupDerivedStats.<init>(Lead.java:53)
at calculation.Lead$WeaponGroupDerivedStats.<init>(Lead.java:10)
at calculation.Lead.getLead(Lead.java:126)
at listeners.ThreeDimensionalTargeting.getWeaponBaseRangeMultMod(ThreeDimensionalTargeting.java:152)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.getWeaponBaseRangeMultMod(CombatListenerUtil.java:143)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.util.Misc.getAdjustedBaseRange(Misc.java:5901)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.ship.o0OO.getAdjustedBaseRange(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.ship.A.if.getRange(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.ooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.ooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.ooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.ö00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.ooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.BasicShipAI.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
The mod appears to be making my ships be permanently stuck in retreat. I'm not exactly sure what is going on, but as soon as a battle commences, they all immediately go into retreat (The T key).
My keyboard is working fine, and issuing the full retreat command (The E key by default) does override it, but trying to hit search and destroy or any other form of command gets immediately overridden by the retreat. My commanded ship will continue to fly forward, but upon issuing it an order through the command UI, the ship immediately starts retreating as if the T key is pressed. I can even hold down keys and it doesn't work.
QuoteWait, it no longer shows fighter damage!? D: Please list reproduction steps.
No reproduction steps, just since the patch where you fixed that it didnt show any hull and barely any armor damage, it stopped showing LPCs under the ships damage charts.
Previously it had them there just like other weapons installed on the ship.
had another spooky nullpoooooooooooooooooointer crash x)
Edit: happened when i told my ship to eliminate in test combat, and it went for the enemy. It was about to get pretty close when game crashed.Code15198277 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at calculation.Lead$WeaponGroupDerivedStats.<init>(Lead.java:53)
at calculation.Lead$WeaponGroupDerivedStats.<init>(Lead.java:10)
at calculation.Lead.getLead(Lead.java:126)
at listeners.ThreeDimensionalTargeting.getWeaponBaseRangeMultMod(ThreeDimensionalTargeting.java:152)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.getWeaponBaseRangeMultMod(CombatListenerUtil.java:143)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.util.Misc.getAdjustedBaseRange(Misc.java:5901)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.ship.o0OO.getAdjustedBaseRange(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.ship.A.if.getRange(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.ooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.ooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.ooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.ö00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.ooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.BasicShipAI.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
Thanks for the DCR fix!
Sadly it seems (on 1.20.5) weapons not firing properly still persists. had a Hyperion with two rapidfire pulsers and it was just flying around most of the fight with shields up and 0 flux unless it got hardfocused, and ocassionally shooting single shots with one or both, if at all, instead of machinegunning both.
Edit: Beams work fine tho. Its just projectiles it seems. Trying different setups in test combat netted similar results.
I'll add a fighter non-launcher muzzle velocity factor in the next release.
updates on this?
Hotfix 1.20.7 is out! Fixed weapons not firing by limiting non-launcher projectile weapon locking to the selected weapon group, if it is not autofiring and the autopilot is off, of the player ship.help my weapons are not firing beam weapons are fine but some medium and large ballistic or non-beam energy weapon dont fire
help my weapons are not firing beam weapons are fine but some medium and large ballistic or non-beam energy weapon dont fire
How can i fix it?
ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.RuntimeException: Key [aiType] has invalid value [BURN_DRIVE_TOGGLE] in [{"loopSound":"system_burn_drive_loop","engineGlowWidthMult":"3","clampTurnRateAfter":"true","aiType":"BURN_DRIVE_TOGGLE","statsScript":"shipsystems.scripts.BurnDriveStats","alwaysAccelerate":"true","aiHints":{"activeSpeedIncrease":"100","burstMovementPotential":"0","averageSpeedIncrease":"100"},"flameoutOnImpactChance":"0.5","type":"ENGINE_MOD","outOfUsesSound":"engine_disabled","id":"burndrive","useSound":"system_burn_drive_activate","deactivateSound":"system_burn_drive_deactivate","clampMaxSpeedAfter":"true","engineGlowLengthMult":"2.5","engineGlowGlowMult":"2"}]
java.lang.RuntimeException: Key [aiType] has invalid value [BURN_DRIVE_TOGGLE] in [{"loopSound":"system_burn_drive_loop","engineGlowWidthMult":"3","clampTurnRateAfter":"true","aiType":"BURN_DRIVE_TOGGLE","statsScript":"shipsystems.scripts.BurnDriveStats","alwaysAccelerate":"true","aiHints":{"activeSpeedIncrease":"100","burstMovementPotential":"0","averageSpeedIncrease":"100"},"flameoutOnImpactChance":"0.5","type":"ENGINE_MOD","outOfUsesSound":"engine_disabled","id":"burndrive","useSound":"system_burn_drive_activate","deactivateSound":"system_burn_drive_deactivate","clampMaxSpeedAfter":"true","engineGlowLengthMult":"2.5","engineGlowGlowMult":"2"}]
ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.RuntimeException: Key [aiType] has invalid value [BURN_DRIVE_TOGGLE] in [{"loopSound":"system_burn_drive_loop","engineGlowWidthMult":"3","clampTurnRateAfter":"true","aiType":"BURN_DRIVE_TOGGLE","statsScript":"shipsystems.scripts.BurnDriveStats","alwaysAccelerate":"true","aiHints":{"activeSpeedIncrease":"100","burstMovementPotential":"0","averageSpeedIncrease":"100"},"flameoutOnImpactChance":"0.5","type":"ENGINE_MOD","outOfUsesSound":"engine_disabled","id":"burndrive","useSound":"system_burn_drive_activate","deactivateSound":"system_burn_drive_deactivate","clampMaxSpeedAfter":"true","engineGlowLengthMult":"2.5","engineGlowGlowMult":"2"}]
java.lang.RuntimeException: Key [aiType] has invalid value [BURN_DRIVE_TOGGLE] in [{"loopSound":"system_burn_drive_loop","engineGlowWidthMult":"3","clampTurnRateAfter":"true","aiType":"BURN_DRIVE_TOGGLE","statsScript":"shipsystems.scripts.BurnDriveStats","alwaysAccelerate":"true","aiHints":{"activeSpeedIncrease":"100","burstMovementPotential":"0","averageSpeedIncrease":"100"},"flameoutOnImpactChance":"0.5","type":"ENGINE_MOD","outOfUsesSound":"engine_disabled","id":"burndrive","useSound":"system_burn_drive_activate","deactivateSound":"system_burn_drive_deactivate","clampMaxSpeedAfter":"true","engineGlowLengthMult":"2.5","engineGlowGlowMult":"2"}]
The mod appears to be making my ships be permanently stuck in retreat. I'm not exactly sure what is going on, but as soon as a battle commences, they all immediately go into retreat (The T key).
My keyboard is working fine, and issuing the full retreat command (The E key by default) does override it, but trying to hit search and destroy or any other form of command gets immediately overridden by the retreat. My commanded ship will continue to fly forward, but upon issuing it an order through the command UI, the ship immediately starts retreating as if the T key is pressed. I can even hold down keys and it doesn't work.
That sounds like you are low on Combat readiness?
i had disabled the mod and decided to try it again after reading some fixes but my assault chainguns still wont fire while my pulse lasers and mining blasters are autofiring fine still
I'll add a fighter non-launcher muzzle velocity factor in the next release.updates on this?
help my weapons are not firing beam weapons are fine but some medium and large ballistic or non-beam energy weapon dont fire
Oh no. What are the reproduction steps?
P.S. Punctuation, please. :PHow can i fix it?
ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.RuntimeException: Key [aiType] has invalid value [BURN_DRIVE_TOGGLE] in [{"loopSound":"system_burn_drive_loop","engineGlowWidthMult":"3","clampTurnRateAfter":"true","aiType":"BURN_DRIVE_TOGGLE","statsScript":"shipsystems.scripts.BurnDriveStats","alwaysAccelerate":"true","aiHints":{"activeSpeedIncrease":"100","burstMovementPotential":"0","averageSpeedIncrease":"100"},"flameoutOnImpactChance":"0.5","type":"ENGINE_MOD","outOfUsesSound":"engine_disabled","id":"burndrive","useSound":"system_burn_drive_activate","deactivateSound":"system_burn_drive_deactivate","clampMaxSpeedAfter":"true","engineGlowLengthMult":"2.5","engineGlowGlowMult":"2"}]
java.lang.RuntimeException: Key [aiType] has invalid value [BURN_DRIVE_TOGGLE] in [{"loopSound":"system_burn_drive_loop","engineGlowWidthMult":"3","clampTurnRateAfter":"true","aiType":"BURN_DRIVE_TOGGLE","statsScript":"shipsystems.scripts.BurnDriveStats","alwaysAccelerate":"true","aiHints":{"activeSpeedIncrease":"100","burstMovementPotential":"0","averageSpeedIncrease":"100"},"flameoutOnImpactChance":"0.5","type":"ENGINE_MOD","outOfUsesSound":"engine_disabled","id":"burndrive","useSound":"system_burn_drive_activate","deactivateSound":"system_burn_drive_deactivate","clampMaxSpeedAfter":"true","engineGlowLengthMult":"2.5","engineGlowGlowMult":"2"}]
ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.RuntimeException: Key [aiType] has invalid value [BURN_DRIVE_TOGGLE] in [{"loopSound":"system_burn_drive_loop","engineGlowWidthMult":"3","clampTurnRateAfter":"true","aiType":"BURN_DRIVE_TOGGLE","statsScript":"shipsystems.scripts.BurnDriveStats","alwaysAccelerate":"true","aiHints":{"activeSpeedIncrease":"100","burstMovementPotential":"0","averageSpeedIncrease":"100"},"flameoutOnImpactChance":"0.5","type":"ENGINE_MOD","outOfUsesSound":"engine_disabled","id":"burndrive","useSound":"system_burn_drive_activate","deactivateSound":"system_burn_drive_deactivate","clampMaxSpeedAfter":"true","engineGlowLengthMult":"2.5","engineGlowGlowMult":"2"}]
java.lang.RuntimeException: Key [aiType] has invalid value [BURN_DRIVE_TOGGLE] in [{"loopSound":"system_burn_drive_loop","engineGlowWidthMult":"3","clampTurnRateAfter":"true","aiType":"BURN_DRIVE_TOGGLE","statsScript":"shipsystems.scripts.BurnDriveStats","alwaysAccelerate":"true","aiHints":{"activeSpeedIncrease":"100","burstMovementPotential":"0","averageSpeedIncrease":"100"},"flameoutOnImpactChance":"0.5","type":"ENGINE_MOD","outOfUsesSound":"engine_disabled","id":"burndrive","useSound":"system_burn_drive_activate","deactivateSound":"system_burn_drive_deactivate","clampMaxSpeedAfter":"true","engineGlowLengthMult":"2.5","engineGlowGlowMult":"2"}]
What are the steps to reproduce the bug?
I attached a screenshot of the error, in /starsector.log the same thing.
I don't see error , but just cooldown bar become long /stuck at a point . Also some weapon don't fire , unless switch quickly (which make it like a no cooldown shoot a shoot or line of shoots and use all my flux)(example weapons that used all my flux : chain guns ,needler , weapons that require charge time to shoot . )------(update)(it only failed in simulation not battle)help my weapons are not firing beam weapons are fine but some medium and large ballistic or non-beam energy weapon dont fire
Oh no. What are the reproduction steps?
P.S. Punctuation, please. :PHow can i fix it?
ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.RuntimeException: Key [aiType] has invalid value [BURN_DRIVE_TOGGLE] in [{"loopSound":"system_burn_drive_loop","engineGlowWidthMult":"3","clampTurnRateAfter":"true","aiType":"BURN_DRIVE_TOGGLE","statsScript":"shipsystems.scripts.BurnDriveStats","alwaysAccelerate":"true","aiHints":{"activeSpeedIncrease":"100","burstMovementPotential":"0","averageSpeedIncrease":"100"},"flameoutOnImpactChance":"0.5","type":"ENGINE_MOD","outOfUsesSound":"engine_disabled","id":"burndrive","useSound":"system_burn_drive_activate","deactivateSound":"system_burn_drive_deactivate","clampMaxSpeedAfter":"true","engineGlowLengthMult":"2.5","engineGlowGlowMult":"2"}]
java.lang.RuntimeException: Key [aiType] has invalid value [BURN_DRIVE_TOGGLE] in [{"loopSound":"system_burn_drive_loop","engineGlowWidthMult":"3","clampTurnRateAfter":"true","aiType":"BURN_DRIVE_TOGGLE","statsScript":"shipsystems.scripts.BurnDriveStats","alwaysAccelerate":"true","aiHints":{"activeSpeedIncrease":"100","burstMovementPotential":"0","averageSpeedIncrease":"100"},"flameoutOnImpactChance":"0.5","type":"ENGINE_MOD","outOfUsesSound":"engine_disabled","id":"burndrive","useSound":"system_burn_drive_activate","deactivateSound":"system_burn_drive_deactivate","clampMaxSpeedAfter":"true","engineGlowLengthMult":"2.5","engineGlowGlowMult":"2"}]
ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.RuntimeException: Key [aiType] has invalid value [BURN_DRIVE_TOGGLE] in [{"loopSound":"system_burn_drive_loop","engineGlowWidthMult":"3","clampTurnRateAfter":"true","aiType":"BURN_DRIVE_TOGGLE","statsScript":"shipsystems.scripts.BurnDriveStats","alwaysAccelerate":"true","aiHints":{"activeSpeedIncrease":"100","burstMovementPotential":"0","averageSpeedIncrease":"100"},"flameoutOnImpactChance":"0.5","type":"ENGINE_MOD","outOfUsesSound":"engine_disabled","id":"burndrive","useSound":"system_burn_drive_activate","deactivateSound":"system_burn_drive_deactivate","clampMaxSpeedAfter":"true","engineGlowLengthMult":"2.5","engineGlowGlowMult":"2"}]
java.lang.RuntimeException: Key [aiType] has invalid value [BURN_DRIVE_TOGGLE] in [{"loopSound":"system_burn_drive_loop","engineGlowWidthMult":"3","clampTurnRateAfter":"true","aiType":"BURN_DRIVE_TOGGLE","statsScript":"shipsystems.scripts.BurnDriveStats","alwaysAccelerate":"true","aiHints":{"activeSpeedIncrease":"100","burstMovementPotential":"0","averageSpeedIncrease":"100"},"flameoutOnImpactChance":"0.5","type":"ENGINE_MOD","outOfUsesSound":"engine_disabled","id":"burndrive","useSound":"system_burn_drive_activate","deactivateSound":"system_burn_drive_deactivate","clampMaxSpeedAfter":"true","engineGlowLengthMult":"2.5","engineGlowGlowMult":"2"}]
What are the steps to reproduce the bug?
I don't see error , but just cooldown bar become long /stuck at a point . Also some weapon don't fire , unless switch quickly (which make it like a no cooldown shoot a shoot or line of shoots and use all my flux)(example weapons that used all my flux : chain guns ,needler , weapons that require charge time to shoot . )------(update)(it only failed in simulation not battle)
all weapons works perfectly fine in combat but not run simulation . I don't exactly know how this happened ? i just see the problem . (plus the newest update solved the problem.)I don't see error , but just cooldown bar become long /stuck at a point . Also some weapon don't fire , unless switch quickly (which make it like a no cooldown shoot a shoot or line of shoots and use all my flux)(example weapons that used all my flux : chain guns ,needler , weapons that require charge time to shoot . )------(update)(it only failed in simulation not battle)
Can you tell me how to make this happen?
all weapons works perfectly fine in combat but not run simulation . I don't exactly know how this happened ? i just see the problem . (plus the newest update solved the problem.)
Patch 1.21.0 is out! Added hard flux level indication and skill overrides. Quality Captains will release a compatibility patch.Had a pretty hefty performance drop once I updated to 1.21, mainly in large fleet battles of upwards of 40 ships total (mostly the enemy, but also my own, where I deploy no more than 6-8 high-end ships with hullmods that buff their performance significantly).
Had a pretty hefty performance drop once I updated to 1.21, mainly in large fleet battles of upwards of 40 ships total (mostly the enemy, but also my own, where I deploy no more than 6-8 high-end ships with hullmods that buff their performance significantly).
Even on my potato of an outdated PC* I get well above 30 FPS (even with 20 ships on-screen, it's closer to 45) @ 1600x900 in windowed mode and a battle size of 1200(!), with little if any lag/slowdown (excepting when Temporal Shell and related ship abilities are activated), but 1.21 changed that.
Afterwards, I average under 30 FPS (sometimes as few as 10-15 FPS, same number of on-screen ships), with constant lag/slowdown; reverting to 1.20.7's .jar file (and also either renaming or deleting the 'data\characters\skills' sub-folder to prevent CTDs) fixed that issue. So, what gives Liral?
Are the skill(s) overrides to make them compatible with Realistic Combat's changes (most of which I do NOT use, disabling them in Toggles.json) eating up far more CPU time than before? And/or is it the 'hard flux level indicator(s)'?
* - Windows 10, Intel i5-4670k, 12GB DDR3 SDRAM, eVGA NVidia GTX 1060 6GB.
Hotfix 1.21.1 is out! I have rolled back the skill changes because they might have affected performance. My poor little potato could never tell the difference. :(Follow-up report on 1.21.1: Definitely an improvement over 1.21.0, but drawn-out battles still (eventually) lag, compared to 1.20.7.
alright, i made an account for this one. so I've found two major errors, the first is the hilarious one that cases everything to retreat unconditionally once it goes below 50 percent combat readiness, making a lot of fights either way easier or way harder than they should be since you cant force your cowards to stay and finish an enemy who's almost defeated, but it makes enemies flee fights they could easily win and helplessly be defeated by tiny forces, or more commonly nothing. which leads to the second part, automated drones will still "retreat", but obviously they don't go anywhere, so its treated as though it was YOU who retreated, and the game kinda cant deal with it so the text doesn't make sense. re engaging them makes them spawn and immediately retreat since they cant actually flee, so the only real way to defeat them is to continually re engage them then declare victory so their CR goes down from deployment, until it gets low enough that they take major damage on deployment and you can start getting them to explode. i kinda got used to that one since the mod is so much more fun though.
the other one was guns like the anti matter blaster not firing and guns like flak guns and the heavy autocannon firing like miniguns and overloading the craft immediately, which made the monitor a total trash heap since the two built in flak guns get it to max flux immediately. that one seems to have been fixed by the recent release but now its unplayable due to an incredibly common Null Pointer Exception during combat.
129927 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at listeners.DamageModel.applyCriticallyMalfunctionToNearestModule(DamageModel.java:84)
at listeners.DamageModel.modifyDamageTaken(DamageModel.java:288)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:67)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:59)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.applyDamage(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Some how my pc run better then urs I got 8gb ram only and same i5 .Patch 1.21.0 is out! Added hard flux level indication and skill overrides. Quality Captains will release a compatibility patch.Had a pretty hefty performance drop once I updated to 1.21, mainly in large fleet battles of upwards of 40 ships total (mostly the enemy, but also my own, where I deploy no more than 6-8 high-end ships with hullmods that buff their performance significantly).
Even on my potato of an outdated PC* I get well above 30 FPS (even with 20 ships on-screen, it's closer to 45) @ 1600x900 in windowed mode and a battle size of 1200(!), with little if any lag/slowdown (excepting when Temporal Shell and related ship abilities are activated), but 1.21 changed that.
Afterwards, I average under 30 FPS (sometimes as few as 10-15 FPS, same number of on-screen ships), with constant lag/slowdown; reverting to 1.20.7's .jar file (and also either renaming or deleting the 'data\characters\skills' sub-folder to prevent CTDs) fixed that issue. So, what gives Liral?
Are the skill(s) overrides to make them compatible with Realistic Combat's changes (most of which I do NOT use, disabling them in Toggles.json) eating up far more CPU time than before? And/or is it the 'hard flux level indicator(s)'?
* - Windows 10, Intel i5-4670k, 12GB DDR3 SDRAM, eVGA NVidia GTX 1060 6GB.
I attached a screenshot of the error, in /starsector.log the same thing.
What are the steps to reproduce he bug: how can I make the bug happen?
I just turn on the game with the mod and immediately gives this window. the game doesn't even start.
Hotfix 1.21.2 is out! Reintroduced skill changes after verifying that they do not affect performance. Fixed a null pointer exception.The re-introduced 'characters\skills' sub-folder isn't placed within 'data', Liral. So they're (probably?) not overriding vanilla's right now, if the paths defined in mod_info.json are any indication ;D
The re-introduced 'characters\skills' sub-folder isn't placed within 'data', Liral. So they're (probably?) not overriding vanilla's right now, if the paths defined in mod_info.json are any indication ;D
Don't have the time to test out if my FPS are still hammered by the skill(s) / hard flux indicator(s) changes before heading out for the morning / afternoon, though.
QuoteQuote from: GoldenGlory on September 26, 2022, 09:46:46 PM
alright, i made an account for this one. so I've found two major errors, the first is the hilarious one that cases everything to retreat unconditionally once it goes below 50 percent combat readiness, making a lot of fights either way easier or way harder than they should be since you cant force your cowards to stay and finish an enemy who's almost defeated, but it makes enemies flee fights they could easily win and helplessly be defeated by tiny forces, or more commonly nothing. which leads to the second part, automated drones will still "retreat", but obviously they don't go anywhere, so its treated as though it was YOU who retreated, and the game kinda cant deal with it so the text doesn't make sense. re engaging them makes them spawn and immediately retreat since they cant actually flee, so the only real way to defeat them is to continually re engage them then declare victory so their CR goes down from deployment, until it gets low enough that they take major damage on deployment and you can start getting them to explode. i kinda got used to that one since the mod is so much more fun though.
That behavior is not a bug but a feature: waiting until lower combat readiness to retreat leaves the ship unable to survive the retreat. I should have documented it in the Field Manual and noted that the solution is to reserve some fast ships with long-range weapons to pursue and destroy a defeated fleet.
alright, i made an account for this one. so I've found two major errors, the first is the hilarious one that cases everything to retreat unconditionally once it goes below 50 percent combat readiness, making a lot of fights either way easier or way harder than they should be since you cant force your cowards to stay and finish an enemy who's almost defeated, but it makes enemies flee fights they could easily win and helplessly be defeated by tiny forces, or more commonly nothing. which leads to the second part, automated drones will still "retreat", but obviously they don't go anywhere, so its treated as though it was YOU who retreated, and the game kinda cant deal with it so the text doesn't make sense. re engaging them makes them spawn and immediately retreat since they cant actually flee, so the only real way to defeat them is to continually re engage them then declare victory so their CR goes down from deployment, until it gets low enough that they take major damage on deployment and you can start getting them to explode. i kinda got used to that one since the mod is so much more fun though.
That behavior is not a bug but a feature: waiting until lower combat readiness to retreat leaves the ship unable to survive the retreat. I should have documented it in the Field Manual and noted that the solution is to reserve some fast ships with long-range weapons to pursue and destroy a defeated fleet.Quotethe other one was guns like the anti matter blaster not firing and guns like flak guns and the heavy autocannon firing like miniguns and overloading the craft immediately, which made the monitor a total trash heap since the two built in flak guns get it to max flux immediately. that one seems to have been fixed by the recent release but now its unplayable due to an incredibly common Null Pointer Exception during combat.
129927 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at listeners.DamageModel.applyCriticallyMalfunctionToNearestModule(DamageModel.java:84)
at listeners.DamageModel.modifyDamageTaken(DamageModel.java:288)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:67)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:59)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.applyDamage(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Expect a hotfix. Also, please tell me if your average combat frame-rate has dropped in recent versions because someone else has reported as much.
I usually dont have any trouble with the <50%, it works fine for me and its nice seeing my ships I thought were gone actually didnt die, they managed to run away somehow.
I however 2nd the drone issue with the [REDACTED]. you cant take those down with a fast ship with long range cause they will immediately turna round and retreat after traveling the fixed starting distance into the combat map. They are fast and you need to travel a long way to get into enemy retreat border range. They are long gone by then. So you need to cheese them into death over multiple engagements which is tedious since your ships loose fixed CR by being deployed, and are inoperable after 1 or 2 times, so you need to send another and another.
i couldnt tell you, every combat crashes so fast with that error that i cant really get any good feel for the framerate. the little i can see before someone fires a shot seem fairly stable, but thats not really that usefull i imagine.
the problem is that they retreat from everything, and i cant force them to not no matter how much i cancel the retreat. a destroyer retreating from a crippled freighter because its combat readiness dropped below 50 percent should be grounds for a court martial and immediate dismissal at least, not the standard operating procedure of a pirate fleet that should be making out like the bandits they are, but are instead fleeing from helpless merchants way before they're actually down to a worrying combat readiness level.
on the subject of hilariously cowardly warships, try and join in a fight of an allied fleet against an enemy, you'll immediately engage the matrix as what i think is the reason warships disobey all orders to cancel retreats comes up, with a massive spam of retreat messages taking up the entire side of the screen that keeps duplicating every moment that the allied ship is on screen. it seems like its spamming the retreat order the entire time, cancelling out any orders otherwise. it was mildly handy before since it slowed the game down so heavily that i could be very precise with my antimatter blaster and shoot around the enemy shield before it could be brought up. i'm not sure if it works in the recent version though since i cant get it to run long enough to test
6369289 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at listeners.DamageModel.applyCriticalMalfunctionToNearestModule(DamageModel.java:86)
at listeners.DamageModel.hitShip(DamageModel.java:143)
at listeners.DamageModel.modifyDamageTaken(DamageModel.java:299)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:67)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:59)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.applyDamage(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.A.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)Hi, LiralCode6369289 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at listeners.DamageModel.applyCriticalMalfunctionToNearestModule(DamageModel.java:86)
at listeners.DamageModel.hitShip(DamageModel.java:143)
at listeners.DamageModel.modifyDamageTaken(DamageModel.java:299)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:67)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:59)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.applyDamage(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.A.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
Got that issue, but it probably may be connected to new ApproLight DoT effect. No issues on old version, replayed one battle 3 times on new version and got that error 3 times.
I made a copy of that save before a battle, but it is semi-heavy moded.
Much appreciate your work, like this mod so much.
Tried sifting through the thread to find anyone else with similar issues but couldn't, so I have to ask, is there something else I need to do besides changing ''totalConversion'':true to false in order to run this with other mods? It doesn't even show up in my plugins, as if the mod didn't exist in my SS/mods folder at all. I know for a fact it definitely does and I've double triple and quadruple checked the json to be sure it's right, but I can't even load this mod, I checked and it seems this was made for 0.95.1a RC6, which is the same version that I have, so that shouldn't be an isse, sides it should show up either way, just have a yellowed out name and the desc in the launcher telling you it's not necessarily compatible with your version of the game, no? In all my years of playing and modding starsector I don't remember ever running into this issue, weird. Help would be much appreciated, thanks in advance, the mod looks really neat and kinda what I always wanted from Starsector, just wanna get to at least try it out ;D.
I usually dont have any trouble with the <50%, it works fine for me and its nice seeing my ships I thought were gone actually didnt die, they managed to run away somehow.
I however 2nd the drone issue with the [REDACTED]. you cant take those down with a fast ship with long range cause they will immediately turna round and retreat after traveling the fixed starting distance into the combat map. They are fast and you need to travel a long way to get into enemy retreat border range. They are long gone by then. So you need to cheese them into death over multiple engagements which is tedious since your ships loose fixed CR by being deployed, and are inoperable after 1 or 2 times, so you need to send another and another.
actually i found a workaround, assuming you mean the blue ones and not the fixed ones. since they immediately retreat what you do is you dont deploy anything, just cancel the deployment. they'll flee in fear of your nothing but still waste their cr from the deployment, then since they all retreated you can pursue them, and they're kinda screwed, or if they think they can take you because their commanders inaccurately expected their ships to go down fighting, just let them do it again until their cr goes down to the point they try and flee, then you should still have enough cr for that brief window of time before your own ships turn tail and flee.
for the brownish fixed ones just keep deploying nothing till they kill themselves.
on the subject of that first thing, you'll probably want a mod called automated commands, you can put commands to retreat on low cr at various thresholds on your ships so they automatically try to retreat at whatever point you set, but critically it still lets you order them back into the fight if they're likely to win it if they just keep pushing or you cant afford them leaving
man, i can ALMOST not go back to vanilla combat after playing with this; it's just the AI tends to get itself killed without player intervention, even against odds where it "should" win, but that's just my experience
thank you for the meal
Hi, LiralCode6369289 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at listeners.DamageModel.applyCriticalMalfunctionToNearestModule(DamageModel.java:86)
at listeners.DamageModel.hitShip(DamageModel.java:143)
at listeners.DamageModel.modifyDamageTaken(DamageModel.java:299)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:67)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:59)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.applyDamage(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.A.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
Got that issue, but it probably may be connected to new ApproLight DoT effect. No issues on old version, replayed one battle 3 times on new version and got that error 3 times.
I made a copy of that save before a battle, but it is semi-heavy moded.
Much appreciate your work, like this mod so much.
Hotfix 1.21.3 is out! Fixed a null-pointer exception.
Tried sifting through the thread to find anyone else with similar issues but couldn't, so I have to ask, is there something else I need to do besides changing ''totalConversion'':true to false in order to run this with other mods? It doesn't even show up in my plugins, as if the mod didn't exist in my SS/mods folder at all. I know for a fact it definitely does and I've double triple and quadruple checked the json to be sure it's right, but I can't even load this mod, I checked and it seems this was made for 0.95.1a RC6, which is the same version that I have, so that shouldn't be an isse, sides it should show up either way, just have a yellowed out name and the desc in the launcher telling you it's not necessarily compatible with your version of the game, no? In all my years of playing and modding starsector I don't remember ever running into this issue, weird. Help would be much appreciated, thanks in advance, the mod looks really neat and kinda what I always wanted from Starsector, just wanna get to at least try it out ;D.
check the folder structure, it might be that its still in the same folder it was extracted in and you need to grab the folder of the mod out of that and put that in your mods
edit: never mind that, the new version has a typo in the mod_info.json that makes it not appear. if you open it up youll see theres a mysterious "il" before the { in the mod_info file, delete that and it should show up again. its helpfully highlighted in red in code editors
Ah yea smart, I will do the deploy cancel now too. Haven't thought of that!
I also use the auto commands mod together with advanced gunnery.
Feel like its a complementary must to RC.
im testing now, that was the same error i had, and it looks like its fixed now, everythings working smoothly so far except for a memory leak, but i cant exactly figure out where thats coming from
Can you please list out the skill changes and the purpose behind them? There's currently no info about them on the main post. I had to update to see the changes for myself and I'm scratching my head wondering why Energy Weapon Mastery had it's scaling damage removed outright rather than adjusted to the longer ranges of this mod. Thanks.
https://imgur.com/a/nsVUjcF
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/512356777451323393/1024804708034027583/unknown.png
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/512356777451323393/1024805405509046392/unknown.png?width=1202&height=676
Are civilian mining lasers supposed to instantly kill well-armored vessels? In a split second? Is this intended?
Hello, I have something to report the bug with current version of 1.22.0 The immense spam regarding of reporting the combat readiness and retreat orders that has occurred before from other reports. To reproduce the bug, just partake in fleet battles with allies on your side. Therefore those allies will spam those message making a solid wall on side of screen and tanking fps, it seems to come from just allies themselves and not your fleet ships.
Image Link: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/366641230534279171/1025870147321331902/unknown.png
Edit: Hotfix 1.22.1 is out! Disabled allies from reporting retreats.Got a CTD in the Simulator mission "Hornet's Nest" (albeit the modfied one from Timid's Content Unlocking Missions, v1.12 (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=24771.0)), that does not occur when Realistic Combat is disabled:
799201 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at listeners.Retreat.advance(Retreat.java:114)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
{
"Change the map size and deployment offsets":"",
"modifyMap":true,
"Whether every ship should limit the range of":"",
" every non-missile projectile weapon on it":"",
"to one at which the target of that weapon could":"",
" not strafe, whether horizontally or vertically,":"",
"off the path of the projectile before it would":"",
"strike":"",
"threeDimensionalTargeting":false,
"Use the Realistic Combat damage model instead of the":"",
"vanilla one for all projectile, missile, and beam":"",
"damage to ships, stations, and fighters.":"",
"replaceDamageModel":false,
"Reduce the Combat Readiness of ships as they become":"",
"damaged during combat":"",
"damageReducesCR":true,
"Modify the specifications of all ships":"",
"modifyShipSpecs":false,
"Modify the specifications of all fighters":"",
"modifyFighterSpecs":true,
"Modify the specifications of all weapons":"",
"modifyWeaponSpecs":false
}
Got a CTD in the Simulator mission "Hornet's Nest" (albeit the modfied one from Timid's Content Unlocking Missions, v1.12 (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=24771.0)), that does not occur when Realistic Combat is disabled:
Pared down my mod list to just Realistic Combat 1.22.1, GraphicsLib 1.6.1, MagicLib 0.42.1, LazyLib 2.7b, Content Unlocking Missions 1.12 and SpeedUp 0.7.2...Got a CTD in the Simulator mission "Hornet's Nest" (albeit the modfied one from Timid's Content Unlocking Missions, v1.12 (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=24771.0)), that does not occur when Realistic Combat is disabled:
Bummer! I have followed your steps but can't reproduce this bug. :( Can you?
Pared down my mod list to just Realistic Combat 1.22.1, GraphicsLib 1.6.1, MagicLib 0.42.1, LazyLib 2.7b, Content Unlocking Missions 1.12 and SpeedUp 0.7.2...Got a CTD in the Simulator mission "Hornet's Nest" (albeit the modfied one from Timid's Content Unlocking Missions, v1.12 (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=24771.0)), that does not occur when Realistic Combat is disabled:
Bummer! I have followed your steps but can't reproduce this bug. :( Can you?
Also deleted the entire \saves\missions folder and sub-folders (where all saved mission .variant(s) are stored, so stock loadouts; same changes to Radar.json and Toggles.json.
Still got the exact same CTD, though at different points throughout the battle (the CTD won't happen right away); disabling Realistic Combat allows Hornet's Nest to be completed.
Pared down my mod list to just Realistic Combat 1.22.1, GraphicsLib 1.6.1, MagicLib 0.42.1, LazyLib 2.7b, Content Unlocking Missions 1.12 and SpeedUp 0.7.2...
Also deleted the entire \saves\missions folder and sub-folders (where all saved mission .variant(s) are stored, so stock loadouts; same changes to Radar.json and Toggles.json.
Still got the exact same CTD, though at different points throughout the battle (the CTD won't happen right away); disabling Realistic Combat allows Hornet's Nest to be completed.
I think I'm having similar issues. Game crashing and throwing up the error about fatal null exception. I thought it was mods conflicting but after reading this section. I disabled all mods to just only realistic combat enabled and tried to play the missions, the second mission or so involving more ships seems to throw more chance to crash the game. Not only that issue, in my modded campaign gameplay getting into any kind of battles will crash. Since I been playing with realistic combat mod before the hot-fix to resolve the allies spamming, there was no crashing null pointer like that. I did not modify the realistic combat as all settings are default out of the box, except the part that enable this mod to run.
I assume this is relevant section of starsector log before the crash. not much difference from other report except that last says unknown.
72120 [Thread-9] INFO sound.public - Creating streaming player for music with id [miscallenous_main_menu.ogg]
72121 [Thread-9] INFO sound.OooO - Playing music with id [miscallenous_main_menu.ogg]
80709 [Thread-7] INFO sound.public - Cleaning up music with id [miscallenous_main_menu.ogg]
81129 [Thread-9] INFO sound.public - Creating streaming player for music with id [battle_ambience_01.ogg]
81130 [Thread-9] INFO sound.OooO - Playing music with id [battle_ambience_01.ogg]
102994 [Thread-7] INFO sound.public - Cleaning up music with id [battle_ambience_01.ogg]
103154 [Thread-9] INFO sound.public - Creating streaming player for music with id [miscallenous_main_menu.ogg]
103155 [Thread-9] INFO sound.OooO - Playing music with id [miscallenous_main_menu.ogg]
106312 [Thread-7] INFO sound.public - Cleaning up music with id [miscallenous_main_menu.ogg]
106657 [Thread-9] INFO sound.public - Creating streaming player for music with id [battle_ambience_01.ogg]
106658 [Thread-9] INFO sound.OooO - Playing music with id [battle_ambience_01.ogg]
115064 [Thread-7] INFO sound.public - Cleaning up music with id [battle_ambience_01.ogg]
115167 [Thread-9] INFO sound.public - Creating streaming player for music with id [battle_ambience_01.ogg]
115168 [Thread-9] INFO sound.OooO - Playing music with id [battle_ambience_01.ogg]
115211 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at listeners.Retreat.advance(Retreat.java:114)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Pared down my mod list to just Realistic Combat 1.22.1, GraphicsLib 1.6.1, MagicLib 0.42.1, LazyLib 2.7b, Content Unlocking Missions 1.12 and SpeedUp 0.7.2...
Ooh, I tried it with just Realistic Combat 1.22.1 and Content Unlocking Missions 1.12. Did you use SpeedUp during the mission?QuoteAlso deleted the entire \saves\missions folder and sub-folders (where all saved mission .variant(s) are stored, so stock loadouts; same changes to Radar.json and Toggles.json.
Still got the exact same CTD, though at different points throughout the battle (the CTD won't happen right away); disabling Realistic Combat allows Hornet's Nest to be completed.
Ok, so it's consistent. I might have to push a hotfix that will crash more-informatively.I think I'm having similar issues. Game crashing and throwing up the error about fatal null exception. I thought it was mods conflicting but after reading this section. I disabled all mods to just only realistic combat enabled and tried to play the missions, the second mission or so involving more ships seems to throw more chance to crash the game. Not only that issue, in my modded campaign gameplay getting into any kind of battles will crash. Since I been playing with realistic combat mod before the hot-fix to resolve the allies spamming, there was no crashing null pointer like that. I did not modify the realistic combat as all settings are default out of the box, except the part that enable this mod to run.
I assume this is relevant section of starsector log before the crash. not much difference from other report except that last says unknown.
72120 [Thread-9] INFO sound.public - Creating streaming player for music with id [miscallenous_main_menu.ogg]
72121 [Thread-9] INFO sound.OooO - Playing music with id [miscallenous_main_menu.ogg]
80709 [Thread-7] INFO sound.public - Cleaning up music with id [miscallenous_main_menu.ogg]
81129 [Thread-9] INFO sound.public - Creating streaming player for music with id [battle_ambience_01.ogg]
81130 [Thread-9] INFO sound.OooO - Playing music with id [battle_ambience_01.ogg]
102994 [Thread-7] INFO sound.public - Cleaning up music with id [battle_ambience_01.ogg]
103154 [Thread-9] INFO sound.public - Creating streaming player for music with id [miscallenous_main_menu.ogg]
103155 [Thread-9] INFO sound.OooO - Playing music with id [miscallenous_main_menu.ogg]
106312 [Thread-7] INFO sound.public - Cleaning up music with id [miscallenous_main_menu.ogg]
106657 [Thread-9] INFO sound.public - Creating streaming player for music with id [battle_ambience_01.ogg]
106658 [Thread-9] INFO sound.OooO - Playing music with id [battle_ambience_01.ogg]
115064 [Thread-7] INFO sound.public - Cleaning up music with id [battle_ambience_01.ogg]
115167 [Thread-9] INFO sound.public - Creating streaming player for music with id [battle_ambience_01.ogg]
115168 [Thread-9] INFO sound.OooO - Playing music with id [battle_ambience_01.ogg]
115211 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at listeners.Retreat.advance(Retreat.java:114)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Uh-oh...
Pared down my mod list to just Realistic Combat 1.22.1, GraphicsLib 1.6.1, MagicLib 0.42.1, LazyLib 2.7b, Content Unlocking Missions 1.12 and SpeedUp 0.7.2...
Ooh, I tried it with just Realistic Combat 1.22.1 and Content Unlocking Missions 1.12. Did you use SpeedUp during the mission?QuoteAlso deleted the entire \saves\missions folder and sub-folders (where all saved mission .variant(s) are stored, so stock loadouts; same changes to Radar.json and Toggles.json.
Still got the exact same CTD, though at different points throughout the battle (the CTD won't happen right away); disabling Realistic Combat allows Hornet's Nest to be completed.
Ok, so it's consistent. I might have to push a hotfix that will crash more-informatively.I think I'm having similar issues. Game crashing and throwing up the error about fatal null exception. I thought it was mods conflicting but after reading this section. I disabled all mods to just only realistic combat enabled and tried to play the missions, the second mission or so involving more ships seems to throw more chance to crash the game. Not only that issue, in my modded campaign gameplay getting into any kind of battles will crash. Since I been playing with realistic combat mod before the hot-fix to resolve the allies spamming, there was no crashing null pointer like that. I did not modify the realistic combat as all settings are default out of the box, except the part that enable this mod to run.
I assume this is relevant section of starsector log before the crash. not much difference from other report except that last says unknown.
72120 [Thread-9] INFO sound.public - Creating streaming player for music with id [miscallenous_main_menu.ogg]
72121 [Thread-9] INFO sound.OooO - Playing music with id [miscallenous_main_menu.ogg]
80709 [Thread-7] INFO sound.public - Cleaning up music with id [miscallenous_main_menu.ogg]
81129 [Thread-9] INFO sound.public - Creating streaming player for music with id [battle_ambience_01.ogg]
81130 [Thread-9] INFO sound.OooO - Playing music with id [battle_ambience_01.ogg]
102994 [Thread-7] INFO sound.public - Cleaning up music with id [battle_ambience_01.ogg]
103154 [Thread-9] INFO sound.public - Creating streaming player for music with id [miscallenous_main_menu.ogg]
103155 [Thread-9] INFO sound.OooO - Playing music with id [miscallenous_main_menu.ogg]
106312 [Thread-7] INFO sound.public - Cleaning up music with id [miscallenous_main_menu.ogg]
106657 [Thread-9] INFO sound.public - Creating streaming player for music with id [battle_ambience_01.ogg]
106658 [Thread-9] INFO sound.OooO - Playing music with id [battle_ambience_01.ogg]
115064 [Thread-7] INFO sound.public - Cleaning up music with id [battle_ambience_01.ogg]
115167 [Thread-9] INFO sound.public - Creating streaming player for music with id [battle_ambience_01.ogg]
115168 [Thread-9] INFO sound.OooO - Playing music with id [battle_ambience_01.ogg]
115211 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at listeners.Retreat.advance(Retreat.java:114)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Uh-oh...
I have realized that you weren't having issues, I assume I nabbed the new hotfix too soon. After a fresh install of the mod, the crash issue stopped showing up at all when playing vanilla with Realistic combat on. So I went on to test it with all mods on for the gameplay, played few mission did not cause the same crash so I continued on the campaign to destroy the cabal that has been bothering me before with consistent crashes.
I'm sorry to make you worry, back to the point. I resolved it with just new install of the mod. Or that I took the hotfixed mod soon before you did any last minute fixes. But I will let you know if that issue will pop up again.
That makes two of us; re-downloaded 1.22.1, saw the .jar file had a modified date several hours newer than the one I had, replaced it with newer one... no more CTDs, even with my somewhat-heavy mods folder (>70 folders, but many are QoL and/or utility-type mods).I have realized that you weren't having issues, I assume I nabbed the new hotfix too soon. After a fresh install of the mod, the crash issue stopped showing up at all when playing vanilla with Realistic combat on. So I went on to test it with all mods on for the gameplay, played few mission did not cause the same crash so I continued on the campaign to destroy the cabal that has been bothering me before with consistent crashes.
I'm sorry to make you worry, back to the point. I resolved it with just new install of the mod. Or that I took the hotfixed mod soon before you did any last minute fixes. But I will let you know if that issue will pop up again.
Whew! Maybe just redownload, luddites and lobsters. :D
That makes two of us; re-downloaded 1.22.1, saw the .jar file had a modified date several hours newer than the one I had, replaced it with newer one... no more CTDs, even with my somewhat-heavy mods folder (>70 folders, but many are QoL and/or utility-type mods).
Hello, I'm sorry I'm bothering you again, but which file is the fighter weapon range multiplier stat in? I'm still somewhat new to starsector modding so forgive me if its a stupid question.
Hello, I'm sorry I'm bothering you again, but which file is the fighter weapon range multiplier stat in? I'm still somewhat new to starsector modding so forgive me if its a stupid question.
Found it. For those who were in a similar situation to me its in the ThreeDimensionalTargeting.json file in RealisticCombat/data/config
Hotfix 1.22.2 is out! Fixed missile flaming out out too early.Cheers! Now TORPEDOES! 8)
Hotfix 1.22.2 is out! Fixed missile flaming out out too early.Cheers! Now TORPEDOES! 8)
Gave this a go and it's really interesting. Definitely completely changes combat.
That being said it seems badly balanced for the game as a whole. Fights are extremely quick now (basically removing any kind of input from the player). Ships seem to be much more susceptible to exploding with little to no time for you to react by issuing them orders. This would work great if the game wasn't balanced around making individual ships and keeping them alive very important (until you're the end game boss with stupid money).
Station attacks seem to be borderline impossible for the AI to figure out, I haven't attempted one of my own but have watched some very nice fleets get spanked by a lud station (both as a 3rd party and on the campaign map).
Super interesting mod but it just doesn't jive outside of the fights imo.
Had a couple of tries. Here's feedback.
UI stuff:
1. "100% Armor penetration.
100% Hull and Structures Damage. (no hard flux)"
For energy beam weapon, this sentence pops out of text box which is eh :o. And it didn't mention shield absorbtion.
So it could be:
"100% Armor penetration.
100% Hull and Structures damage.
100% Shield damage. (no hard flux)"
2. Hovering on some tooltips like "Armor" on topright of ship modification page, it still says max 85% min 5% stuff that needs a change.
3. Seems you changed Integrated Targeting Unit to realistic targeting, which is nice but I didn't see much difference (though I aim manually quite often).
4. Hullmods like Advanced Targeting Unit on Paragon is still range extension which is wierd.
5. Advanced Optics only increase range of 200, which is like 2% over 10000, nope :(.
6. And Scatter Emitter is not working (blank). Maybe this is ongoing work? I think reducing range is actually fine, as it says, tunes frequency range so it behaves more "particle" rather than "wave" and deals hard flux. So to say this shouldn't decay (at least not too much) over range. But, since it's still instant, cut range in half (5000) is pretty fair.
Mechanism stuff:
1. AI is subpar. Try assign "Harass" or even "Rally", or any command with cautious or even timid.
Toolstip says commanders should control ship according to enemy & self weapon range. Seems like AI is still following the vanilla range.
Also, phase ship commanders still try to sub & float behind enemy for a "backstab" which fails completely. Phase ship AI prob needs a redo. They should now be real submarines, not phase-ninjas. Their AI should submerge as long as possible (at least in an intermediate range, doesn't matter whether being attacked). For firing, it's getting just about into range, float, fire and quickly submerge. For venting, it's getting out of range asap, float, vent and quickly submerge. I wonder if there could be a cooldown for both submerging and floating which extends the weakness window (and maybe 2x longer), then reduce the flux generation of phasing to balance out AI behavior.
[Modify: Just come up with another idea, if sub & float both have cooldown, then overloading is possible (Subs out of oxygen that needs to float), which is good fun for tactics.]
2. 200% For penetration is probably too high for Kinetic, or 50% and 12% being too low for HE and Frag, either way.
For example: Take shield in account and use energy (bolt) as a reference 100%/100%/100%, Kinetic is 200%/50%/?%.
My personal expectation is:
Kinetic 200%/50% /100%;
HE 75% /125%/125%;
Energy 100%/100%/100%;
Frag 15% /100%/25%;
Beam, just add (no hard flux), and decay with range, I think it's quite fair.
| Type | Shield | Thickness | Damage |
| Kinetic | 2 | 0.67 | 0.5 |
| High Explosive | 0.5 | 1.33 | 1.5 |
| Fragmentation | 0.25 | 8 | 2 |
| Energy | 1 | 1 | 1 |
The reason HE needs scale up, since Kinetic penetrates too good and it still has some high damage one shot bolt weapon. Like Hypervelocity Drive etc., they can take down heavy targets with mid-slots alone. Then what's Gauss Cannon for? Also, many HEs are fast small bolts that won't penetrate heavy armor at all. Then they can only deal with small crafts. HEs both mid- & small- slots are all for the same role :-\ ? Why not making mid-slot HE & K deals similar damage to heavy armor?
Then shield scaling on HE, it's for balancing maximum Kinetic damage. HE is GOTTA be good to penetrate something, or it's dealing ZERO below corresponding kinetic threshold and the only HE left is hellbore. Cuz no HE below that threshold is irreplacable by a Kinetic. But if it presses harder on shields then there are trade-offs.
Frags are mainly for low flux PDs or some crazy damage low flux cryoblasters, so 12% (id say 15%) sounds fair, not much to say.
Still, overall a nice mod :) . Cheers.
Had a couple of tries. Here's feedback.
UI stuff:
1. "100% Armor penetration.
100% Hull and Structures Damage. (no hard flux)"
For energy beam weapon, this sentence pops out of text box which is eh :o. And it didn't mention shield absorbtion.
So it could be:
"100% Armor penetration.
100% Hull and Structures damage.
100% Shield damage. (no hard flux)"
Where does this appear?
QuoteMechanism stuff:
1. AI is subpar. Try assign "Harass" or even "Rally", or any command with cautious or even timid.
I don't understand: would you please elaborate?QuoteToolstip says commanders should control ship according to enemy & self weapon range. Seems like AI is still following the vanilla range.
Is this issue the same one as the above? Regardless, that's not good. Can you tell me more?
QuoteAlso, phase ship commanders still try to sub & float behind enemy for a "backstab" which fails completely. Phase ship AI prob needs a redo. They should now be real submarines, not phase-ninjas. Their AI should submerge as long as possible (at least in an intermediate range, doesn't matter whether being attacked). For firing, it's getting just about into range, float, fire and quickly submerge. For venting, it's getting out of range asap, float, vent and quickly submerge. I wonder if there could be a cooldown for both submerging and floating which extends the weakness window (and maybe 2x longer), then reduce the flux generation of phasing to balance out AI behavior.
[Modify: Just come up with another idea, if sub & float both have cooldown, then overloading is possible (Subs out of oxygen that needs to float), which is good fun for tactics.]
Redoing the phase AI seems quite difficult. What if I just dropped the phase cloak cost even more?
Quote2. 200% For penetration is probably too high for Kinetic, or 50% and 12% being too low for HE and Frag, either way.
You might be onto something: I have now more-closely reviewed what information I can find about the relative effective thickness of modern composite armor against long-rod (Kinetic) and explosive-formed (High Explosive) penetrators and found the latter to be 50-100% greater than the former. A .5 effective thickness factor against long-rod penetrators is not compatible with a 1.5 effective thickness factor for explosive-formed penetrators. I will change the factors to be .67 and 1.33 in the next version.QuoteFor example: Take shield in account and use energy (bolt) as a reference 100%/100%/100%, Kinetic is 200%/50%/?%.
My personal expectation is:
Kinetic 200%/50% /100%;
HE 75% /125%/125%;
Energy 100%/100%/100%;
Frag 15% /100%/25%;
Beam, just add (no hard flux), and decay with range, I think it's quite fair.
Type Shield Thickness Damage Kinetic 2 0.67 0.5 High Explosive 0.5 1.33 1.5 Fragmentation 0.25 8 2 Energy 1 1 1
QuoteThe reason HE needs scale up, since Kinetic penetrates too good and it still has some high damage one shot bolt weapon. Like Hypervelocity Drive etc., they can take down heavy targets with mid-slots alone. Then what's Gauss Cannon for? Also, many HEs are fast small bolts that won't penetrate heavy armor at all. Then they can only deal with small crafts. HEs both mid- & small- slots are all for the same role :-\ ? Why not making mid-slot HE & K deals similar damage to heavy armor?
Then shield scaling on HE, it's for balancing maximum Kinetic damage. HE is GOTTA be good to penetrate something, or it's dealing ZERO below corresponding kinetic threshold and the only HE left is hellbore. Cuz no HE below that threshold is irreplacable by a Kinetic. But if it presses harder on shields then there are trade-offs.
Frags are mainly for low flux PDs or some crazy damage low flux cryoblasters, so 12% (id say 15%) sounds fair, not much to say.
You make good points that I have heard before and worried about, and I hope that the above table looks better! It improves effective thickness against long-rod penetrators and reduces it against explosive-formed ones.QuoteStill, overall a nice mod :) . Cheers.
Awwwwwwwww, thanks so much! I'm glad you like it.
The tooltip hovering on top of weapons.
Yh same one as above, assigning Harass or Avoid will still make ships engage very very aggresively. They tend to behave same and keep same distance as vanilla which is suicidal ???.
Don't know :). But as phase ships keep trying to submerge through and float behind (very close to target), they're keep blowing up :P. I'd say distancing must be a value somewhere. This is critical than generic cost or behavior (cuz enlarging distance by 10x could just stop them from advancing).
Shield Thickness Damage? Or you actually meant Thickness Damage Shield? Also 8x seems too high for frags, the nature of frag weapons are just very low flux/damage. So multiplyer larger than 1x is a bit risky.
And yes there are APC APBC APCBC HEAT HEATFS, long rod and depleted uranium long rod penetrators etc. etc., so many types of modern ammo. A scalar is not covering them. Sometimes "kinetic" and sometimes "HE" penetrates more, depends on armor TYPE. The fact is most of'em deals acceptable interior damage.
For this I was thinking, is it possible to switch multiplyer based on ship class? Hightech ships, they use more composite armor, which SHOULD be a combination between intelligent reactive armor and a thiner plain thickness, which makes'em much stronger against HE types but weak to kinetic. Low tech ships, they SHOULD be a lot thicker plain armor and low intelligent reactive armor, which is very strong against kinetic, but HEs can inject through. Midlines, 50-50. Sounds like a single factor could do, calling it "Reactive Armor Weighting" factor? Remnants are 0.85? Hightech ships are 0.7? Lowtech ships 0.3? Midlines and other mods just 0.5. Or effectively a separate damage table above, for each series of ship.
QuoteFor this I was thinking, is it possible to switch multiplyer based on ship class? Hightech ships, they use more composite armor, which SHOULD be a combination between intelligent reactive armor and a thiner plain thickness, which makes'em much stronger against HE types but weak to kinetic. Low tech ships, they SHOULD be a lot thicker plain armor and low intelligent reactive armor, which is very strong against kinetic, but HEs can inject through. Midlines, 50-50. Sounds like a single factor could do, calling it "Reactive Armor Weighting" factor? Remnants are 0.85? Hightech ships are 0.7? Lowtech ships 0.3? Midlines and other mods just 0.5. Or effectively a separate damage table above, for each series of ship.
Distinguishing by tech level feels interesting yet seems arbitrary because many Low Tech ships are said to have good armor, while many High Tech ships are said to have bad armor.
Yh but "good" is always relative for weight/cost efficiency.
Composites are usually thin&light,
trading-off for status (better systems, flux etc.).
Thin plain armor is not gonna stop much.
Kinetic gets through ANYWAY.
So, reactive-specialization countering HE is very likely. Tank kinetic with shields, then you can play selectively.
For lowtech, it's thick & less costy. You can ignore many medium intensity firepower whether HE/kinetic and smash'em.
[Modify: As a result, lowtech takes moderate damage whether HE/kinetic (damage taken: 100%/100%). It's all-round protection, except siege HE firepower. While hightech is like (50%/125%). Hightech base value is already smaller, making many mid-kinetic piecing through. So you can't drop guard. But when hit by HE, your armor is twice thick. Although Gauss Cannon kills paragon easily, it does much less damage to Onslaught. Still, on that one shot hellbore, your Paragon might be better than Onslaught :).]
I have some questions.
is the armor rating on the stat card is the "armor rating" that penetration calculation uses? Like each side has full armor rating rather than distributed to each side?
So it is best to use kinetic autocannons for anti hull, and high single-shot damage he weapon for both anti shield and hull?
Thanks for reply :)
i got this error when trying to startup with your mod. i was hoping it would be a quick fix via going to where it said the error was but idk how to access .system files XD soo i guess i gotta poke you about it. Thx
ah ok cool that worked. it looks like i had a bad install thx
487717 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: 1
java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: 1
at renderers.Status.renderInlineIndicator(Status.java:161)
at renderers.Status.renderDiamond(Status.java:202)
at renderers.Status.render(Status.java:221)
at plugins.Indication.renderInWorldCoords(Indication.java:70)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.Object.L$Oo.new(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.A.new.new(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748) I think encountered a CTD error when running Realistic Combat and the Gundam UC mod. The crash occured when after deploying mobile suit wings of the Gundam UC mod, they get destroyed or atleast heavily damaged i think. I quite read that there maybe some issues running both mods together as they are not 100% compatible yet i think. I tried running both of them together only and it crashed quite consistently on the said occasions. Here is the crash log that i obtainedCode487717 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: 1
java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: 1
at renderers.Status.renderInlineIndicator(Status.java:161)
at renderers.Status.renderDiamond(Status.java:202)
at renderers.Status.render(Status.java:221)
at plugins.Indication.renderInWorldCoords(Indication.java:70)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.Object.L$Oo.new(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.A.new.new(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
I quite suspect that the indicators somehow are involved and I tried turning off the indicators using 'h' and i observed it quite prevents the crash, however when i turn indicators back on, it instantly crashed too. I hope you can get some insight from this and I would like to heed your advice. Thanks!
Hotfix 1.22.4 is out! Fixed an Arma Armatura / Gundam UC related CTD caused by an index exception in the status indication of Realistic Combat.
I'm getting a lot of flack cannons wiggling back and forth instead of shooting at fighters or missiles, their hit rate is stupid low.
I've found that shots sometimes penetrate shields on smaller craft, thinking its a bug due to it not happening on larger ship shields.
18619193 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.ClassCastException: com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.C cannot be cast to com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.N
java.lang.ClassCastException: com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.C cannot be cast to com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.N
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.o00O.?00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.spawnProjectile(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.spawnProjectile(Unknown Source)
at calculation.Ricochet.spawnRicochetProjectile(Ricochet.java:40)
at calculation.Ricochet.ricochet(Ricochet.java:80)
at listeners.DamageModel.hitShip(DamageModel.java:140)
at listeners.DamageModel.modifyDamageTaken(DamageModel.java:307)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:67)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:59)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.applyDamage(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.A.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)Hi, I would like to share a report on the interaction between Realistic Combat and Fleet Action History mod. I have observed that when activated together, the Fleet Action History mod won't work completely as intended, although there were no crashes.
Basically, it shows 0FP for the ships as well as kills and assists when RC is on, like it is failing to record statistics. I tried playing without RC and the fleet action history mod works fine. After further testing, I quite pinpointed that when RC damage model is used (toggled on), this occurrence happened. Turning off the damage model will allow the fleet action mod to record again the statistics. While I think there is no quite big problem, it maybe a soft incompatibility.
Additionally, using the console commands mod, commands such as god mode or fleet/ship modifying commands with the RC damage model on, will not also apply to the ships. I attached some screenshots which might help.
Thanks for looking into it when you have the time. Loving the mod!
I've got a problem with CTDs which was resolved by disabling Realistic Combat so i thought those CTDs can probably be caused by the mod.
Are you playing with the latest Starsector version?
I wonder if the projectile is from a mod because I have never seen this error before. Now that you have posted a list of mods that includes the one causing the crash, I need you to isolate that mod by trying to remember what happened just before the crash, especially if any modded projectile was hitting a ship, and then trying to replicate the crash on purpose. If you can't, then do a binary search, which should be quick. Turn off half your content mods (e.g., Diable) and play until the crash reoccurs. If it does, then turn off half the remaining content mods and play again. If it doesn't, then those mods probably have not caused it, so turn back on half the mods that you have turned off and play again. Within a few plays, plus a little guesswork and luck, the affected mod should become obvious to you.Thanks for your answer. Well, that's exactly what i'm trying to do in my free time for the last couple of days, guess shoulda just keep doing so
Thanks for your answer. Well, that's exactly what i'm trying to do in my free time for the last couple of days, guess shoulda just keep doing so
I am sick of the funny triangle being nigh OP or literally any angular ship like say Scalartech and VIC being immortal so I may have deleted a few SRC files from the mod as well as making some scripts non-readable
...
is there a way to reduce fighter weapon range so they can fight enemy ships up close instead of far away
I'm getting a lot of flack cannons wiggling back and forth instead of shooting at fighters or missiles, their hit rate is stupid low.
I wonder how to fix that...I've found that shots sometimes penetrate shields on smaller craft, thinking its a bug due to it not happening on larger ship shields.
It's probably because the muzzle velocities are extreme. Try reducing the "muzzleVelocityMaximum" from 10,000 and tell me what you get. Meanwhile, I will investigate.
Regarding the point defense thing...
Are you saying you'll look into it or...
Were you being sarcastic and saying that the 2nd best point defense in game with a turn rate of "Excellent" should just stare at missiles and let them hit the ship 90% of the time?
With fighter's it's more of a 50% "wiggle" rate, but for a 12 OP frag medium slot dedicated to the role "point defense (area)" that's still very low.
I'm getting a lot of flack cannons wiggling back and forth instead of shooting at fighters or missiles, their hit rate is stupid low.
I wonder how to fix that...I've found that shots sometimes penetrate shields on smaller craft, thinking its a bug due to it not happening on larger ship shields.
It's probably because the muzzle velocities are extreme. Try reducing the "muzzleVelocityMaximum" from 10,000 and tell me what you get. Meanwhile, I will investigate.
5,000 is the lowest safest speed with a 60 degree minimum size shield, kinda slow.
To spite lowering both beam range settings by a factor of 2 like i did with the muzzelVelocity, some beam weapons still have 11100 range.
Maybe add a "global beam range multiplier"?
can you ad github
Thanks for your answer. Well, that's exactly what i'm trying to do in my free time for the last couple of days, guess shoulda just keep doing so
Glad you know what to do and are doing it! I hope it's going quickly and not causing you much hassle. Please tell me how it goes so I can fix the root cause.
Thanks for your answer. Well, that's exactly what i'm trying to do in my free time for the last couple of days, guess shoulda just keep doing so
Glad you know what to do and are doing it! I hope it's going quickly and not causing you much hassle. Please tell me how it goes so I can fix the root cause.
Hello again. So, it took a lot of time but i think something out of SCY mod was the cause of crashes. Still dont know what exactly, but i havent had a single ctd since i disabled the mod, despite taking a lot of simulation battles which usually helped me to get ctds more quickly before
Thanks for your answer. Well, that's exactly what i'm trying to do in my free time for the last couple of days, guess shoulda just keep doing so
Glad you know what to do and are doing it! I hope it's going quickly and not causing you much hassle. Please tell me how it goes so I can fix the root cause.
Hello! I'm kind of piggybacking off of Teknolojee, I have the exact same error code.
For me it's coming from Scy Nation. I can engage any other fleet in game and not have issues, I can even engage smaller Scy fleets and have no problem. But if it's a decent or high quality fleet, as soon as the Scy Nation ships start to engage, I get the CTD and the error code.
errorSpoiler6518440 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.ClassCastException: com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.C cannot be cast to com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.N
java.lang.ClassCastException: com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.C cannot be cast to com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.N
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.o00O.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.spawnProjectile(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.spawnProjectile(Unknown Source)
at calculation.Ricochet.spawnRicochetProjectile(Ricochet.java:40)
at calculation.Ricochet.ricochet(Ricochet.java:80)
at listeners.DamageModel.hitShip(DamageModel.java:140)
at listeners.DamageModel.modifyDamageTaken(DamageModel.java:307)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:67)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:59)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.applyDamage(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.A.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)[close]
5,000 is the lowest safest speed with a 60 degree minimum size shield, kinda slow.
Bummer! I'll change it, though. Thanks for testing it all out! :DQuoteTo spite lowering both beam range settings by a factor of 2 like i did with the muzzelVelocity, some beam weapons still have 11100 range.
Maybe add a "global beam range multiplier"?
Four beam range settings are in WeaponSpecs.json, but you would have had to read the source code or guessed from the other two beam range settings to know that the intensity factors are also beam range settings. The beam weapon spec modification code sets the range of a beam weapon to be the range at which the diffracted beam intensity divided by the flux cost is near the corresponding minimum flux efficiency specified. The diffracted beam intensity depends on the initial beam intensity, the factors of which in WeaponSpecs.json therefore affect beam range--and beam damage over range.
Try changing the "pointDefenseBeamMinimumFluxEfficiency" back to 0.1 and "antiShipBeamMinimumFluxEfficiency" back to 0.2 and then reducing the values of "continuousBeamIntensityFactor" and "burstBeamIntensityFactor" to limit beam weapon range.
If you could do a ray cast for each bullet's movement or use more 'intervals' it would probably fix this
Regarding the point defense thing if you make it so that the gun is within .1 of a degree to fire on something it snaps to that angle and fires could be a solution.
Spotted a soft incompatibility; player ships in Starship Legends can't gain XP from doing damage to enemy ships with RC's alternate damage model enabled.
I heard of the mod just a few days ago and I'm blown away with it and how much it changes the game, but in all honesty, I'm very confused about how it works and how to effectively fight with ships since it changes so much and most my fights feel a bit random with big ships getting blown with an instance but my wolf somehow staying alive till the end of the fight and kills a dominator with a sabot missile.
so if someone understands how this mod works I'll be very thankful.
I recently updated to the most recent version and have started to run into invincible space stations. Like they seem to take shield dmg and it goes down but then i can't seem to do any hull dmg to the station parts afterwords. Just kinda sit there with a fleet whaling at it to no end. To be fair i do have a good handfull of mods so idk if it's an interaction between this and another mod but when i turn this one off it fixes it which is a shame cuase i do love the combat in here much more than vanilla XD. loving the mod otherwise
Uh-oh! Were all stations or just modded ones invincible? Thanks so much! I'm glad you enjoy it.
It seemed to be all stations cuase i tried fighting a pirate, ludic path and an legio infernalis base. At most if i did any hull dmg it was though a high power missile
If you could do a ray cast for each bullet's movement or use more 'intervals' it would probably fix this
Regarding the point defense thing if you make it so that the gun is within .1 of a degree to fire on something it snaps to that angle and fires could be a solution.
I would have to implement a collision detection algorithm so performant as to run more than once every frame for hundreds particles without degrading frame rate on potatoes. :( The second one would require rewriting the weapon and part of the ship AI. :(
sorry I took some time to reply, I had a couple of tests that I forgot about :PI heard of the mod just a few days ago and I'm blown away with it and how much it changes the game, but in all honesty, I'm very confused about how it works and how to effectively fight with ships since it changes so much and most my fights feel a bit random with big ships getting blown with an instance but my wolf somehow staying alive till the end of the fight and kills a dominator with a sabot missile.
so if someone understands how this mod works I'll be very thankful.
Happy to help! Please tell me your questions in more detail.
It seemed to be all stations cuase i tried fighting a pirate, ludic path and an legio infernalis base. At most if i did any hull dmg it was though a high power missile
Ok, have you had this problem with Realistic Combat before?
So a no on the more intervals thing for the bullets too? x2 would be enough with these numbers.
Also with the weapons you could just increase the minimum rotation unit by a factor of 10 or so, I think that would solve it.
The bug with the weapons not shooting at missiles and sometimes fighters makes the mod unplayable at least for me, so if that's not going to get fixed it was fun.
sorry I took some time to reply, I had a couple of tests that I forgot about :P
my main point of confusion is armor penetration and how it works, I have a few frigates with a couple of light assault guns surrounding a dominator and firing at it constantly but nothing happens to the armor of the dominator, the armor doesn't seem to be stripping off or some shots penetrating into the hull to do some damage hull damage, but I send a destroyer with a hypervelocity cannon and it shoots right through the armor which is a bit bizarre since its a kinetic weapon and it ain't supposed to get through the armor, and some times when a shoot of high explosive shells and it penetrates and does damage sometimes the armor stays fairly intact like it's not been damaged.
I wasn't an expert on how armor worked in general so if you could clear this up for ill be very thankful.
i believe i have but when i did i just restarted my game and it seemed to fix itself this time was not the case unfortunately
So a no on the more intervals thing for the bullets too? x2 would be enough with these numbers.
Hm... if so... maybe I could!
Also with the weapons you could just increase the minimum rotation unit by a factor of 10 or so, I think that would solve it.
Minimum rotation unit? Please tell me more.
You can drop the muzzle velocity in data/config/WeaponSpecs.json ("muzzleVelocityMaximum")
I have noticed that remnant and domain drones will actively retreat now. Which is really cool until it hard locks you out of salvaging any domain probe/ship/mothership because you have to kill all of the drones to salvage, and they will continually retreat from the combat space before you can get over to them.
This forces you to repeatedly re-engage the automated defenses and hope that you have enough ships with enough CR to force an engine crit malfunction on the drones so you can finally cross the distance quickly enough to finish off the wounded drone before it retreats. (it normally just spins around and immediately exits)
I am not sure if their AI commanders are set to not reckless or if there is a mod conflict. I don't have any other mods that effect combat AI, so I am pretty sure its realistic combat. I have been using the command console mod to kill the spare drone or two, but without that the cost in CR to clear a single drone is incredibly prohibitive.
Scratch that, I am noticing that all pirates will attempt retreat when sufficiently wounded, including ones with officers (I presume that most are reckless)
I have noticed that remnant and domain drones will actively retreat now. Which is really cool until it hard locks you out of salvaging any domain probe/ship/mothership because you have to kill all of the drones to salvage, and they will continually retreat from the combat space before you can get over to them.
This forces you to repeatedly re-engage the automated defenses and hope that you have enough ships with enough CR to force an engine crit malfunction on the drones so you can finally cross the distance quickly enough to finish off the wounded drone before it retreats. (it normally just spins around and immediately exits)
I am not sure if their AI commanders are set to not reckless or if there is a mod conflict. I don't have any other mods that effect combat AI, so I am pretty sure its realistic combat. I have been using the command console mod to kill the spare drone or two, but without that the cost in CR to clear a single drone is incredibly prohibitive.
Scratch that, I am noticing that all pirates will attempt retreat when sufficiently wounded, including ones with officers (I presume that most are reckless)
Seconding this.
There is a bug where point defense guns do not shoot at fighters and missiles. They just stare at them while wiggling back and forth. It almost always happens for missiles and sometimes for fighters.
This is likely due to weapons not having enough degrees of control over their rotation.
Minimum rotation unit fix:
If the number representing a weapons rotation only goes from 0 - 360, I would change it to 0 - 3600.
This is as best as i can explain the bug. I'm very surprised you didn't catch this while doing your own testing.
I have noticed that remnant and domain drones will actively retreat now. Which is really cool until it hard locks you out of salvaging any domain probe/ship/mothership because you have to kill all of the drones to salvage, and they will continually retreat from the combat space before you can get over to them.
This forces you to repeatedly re-engage the automated defenses and hope that you have enough ships with enough CR to force an engine crit malfunction on the drones so you can finally cross the distance quickly enough to finish off the wounded drone before it retreats. (it normally just spins around and immediately exits)
I am not sure if their AI commanders are set to not reckless or if there is a mod conflict. I don't have any other mods that effect combat AI, so I am pretty sure its realistic combat. I have been using the command console mod to kill the spare drone or two, but without that the cost in CR to clear a single drone is incredibly prohibitive.
Scratch that, I am noticing that all pirates will attempt retreat when sufficiently wounded, including ones with officers (I presume that most are reckless)
Hi,
I've been loving this mod, the improvements to combat are awesome! However I've run into one issue. Im using the Tahlan shipworks mod that features a ship that has 3 built in turret weapons. The range of such is listed as 4630 and the range indicator reflects this, however when firing the guns the shells only travel the vanilla distance before disappearing. I'm wondering if you know of any such fix for an issue such as this.
Best regards.
(edit, it seems like installing the ballistic rangefinder mod improves weapon ranges however not to the entire listed range. However this is a very pricy solution. Perhaps the dedicated targeting core should include this feature?)
They also seem to teleport straight out of combat, even if they are in the middle of the map.
Hey, nice mod! I get some The Expanse vibes while using some balistic weapons, yet to be real Realistic, a bullet range limit would have to go off, even more if a starship is in sight or telemetry range. Even a small piece of metal coming in a opposite orbit would do enough damage if pierce in the right spot. But orbits are not the point in the game... right? :-\
Some points i think you mod could improve also:
1. Missiles may need a nerf, they got overpowered since it refil after every battle, a missile focused fleet, can rip though even 2-3 times stronger fleet (in a vanilla perspective of strenght). Maybe buff point defense and fighters with pd would solve that, and a longer cooldown to all missiles. To be "realistic" missiles should be only replenished at stations, but i don't think it's easy to script that, i dunno... :-X
2. AI need some tweaks on how to use shield now. You change shields soo they don't protect 100% but they take the same old delayed time to turn on and get around the ship, or worst, move around wen it's not static or omni, soo it's pretty common to most AI only turn the shield now when it's too late. Because that even timid or cautious AI take alot hit since they speed up not knowing they will take forever to stop becoming a sitting duck many times. The tactical screen help it at some extension, for the player, but enemies are even more a easy prey now due that.
3. AI are retreating too easily. Also Derelict ships are retreating now, making some frustating situations. I have to keep persuing 2 or more times Derelict now soo they blow up due low CR or i lost the battle progress, if by accident i select leave them, all the salvage is lost like i never did any battle, it's annoying even more because they spawn too near the retreating zone, soo it's not point to send any ship, this problem is only with derelict. For others AI the retreat logic is different but yet too easy, seems that you extended the retreat zone, soo a big fleeing fleet can get the front line ships there. In vanilla in the beginning, it's common most ships flee at end of a battle but progressing it get easy for a stronger player catch most them if not all. Now even for a fast player fleet its common for the enemy fleet at least 5 or more ships from the front to escape.
That's it, this is just my perception, i hope it can help you.
Awwwwwww, thanks so much! I appreciate and am grateful for the praise you give this mod. I think the problem you are encountering is that the weapon spec is modified but the projectile spec is not. Would you please tell me which ship from Tahlan you were using for me to replicate and, I hope, fix this bug?
Hi Liral may I ask if the scatter amplifyer toolstip still being blank? Is it because it's undecided for how to balance or just by mistake?
Hi, sorry for the very delayed reply. The ship is the Metafalica-class battleship, the built in weapon in question is the "Phira"
Say again? I don't understand if you mean that the High Scatter Amplifier has a blank tooltip or if it only once were blank.
Hi Liral, just wanted to say that this mod is amazing and is exactly what I'm looking for. Even small skirmishes feel epic now when your PDCs fire off and shred incoming missiles while you trade salvos.Wooooo, thank you! I'm glad you enjoy Realistic Combat! ;D
Here's a few things I wanted to note for others using this mod and some feedback:
The tooltip for the High Scatter Amplifier does have a blank tooltip.
Another thing to note: ballistic point defense systems have a very hard time locking on to fighters and missiles due to the threeDimensionalTargeting mechanic (beam based PD doesn't have this issue). I've played around in the simulator with vulcan, flak and machine gun PDs and they seem to lock on and off repeatedly without ever firing. I suspect this is due to the jinkable factor making autoaim hard/near impossible to hit tiny fast moving targets.
I've changed the threeDimensionalTargeting to false in the settings.json to fix this and now everything seems to engage and fire correctly. However, in the next patch I would try to give more leeway for PD systems to engage and fire on small targets.
Again, amazing mod and I hope to see more in the future!
hi liral, i wrote this in starship legends as well, but i suspect this mod conflicts with that mod since it's the only mod that overhauls damage percentages and the like
this is what i wrote in the last paragraph in the post: "none of the battles register, they happen but when i see the battle log it shows as if none of my ships did any damage or receive any, it only logs when a ship is destroyed and this is extremely annoying as i will quickly get insubordinate crews and negative buffs."
i may be completely wrong on this mod conflicting, but i mean it's my only suspect at the moment
Hey, Liral. I'm trying to resolve the issue turtlebacons recently brought to my attention (as described above). I was hoping your DamageReportManagerV1 class would be a good solution, but I'm having trouble getting getDamageReports to return anything other than an empty list. I suspect that I'm not using the class as intended. Would you be kind enough to explain the correct usage to me? Feel free to PM me here or on Discord (Sundog#3161) if you'd prefer to keep this thread clean.
Hey Liral,
I like the mod, but I have an issue when pursuing ships. The fleeing ships fire missiles, which hit my ships before I'm even given the control of the ship (I can't even activate the shield before I'm hit), is this normal?
Hi, I'm having an issue where various weapons (typically weapons with bursts) have their projectiles disappear far before they should, resulting in my fleets using all their flux without hitting anything.
Name of weapons (mostly modded) that I'm having issues with-mini blaster array, flicker pd laser, autoblaster
Hello,
Guess that sometimes realistic combat or other mods with it can bug out with some ships and then they keep fighting with 0% hull but with combat readiness, so is that quite common or not?
"systemWeapons":[
"lightmortar_fighter",
"clusterbomb",
"annihilator_fighter",
"sabot_fighter",
"ioncannon_fighter",
"irpulse_fighter",
"pdburst_fighter",
"riftlance_minelayer",
"riftbeam_minelayer",
"riftcascade_minelayer",
"interdictorbeam",
],"systemWeapons":[
"lightmortar_fighter",
"clusterbomb",
"annihilator_fighter",
"sabot_fighter",
"ioncannon_fighter",
"irpulse_fighter",
"pdburst_fighter",
"riftlance_minelayer",
"riftbeam_minelayer",
"riftcascade_minelayer",
"interdictorbeam",
"MSS_big_railgun",
"MSS_big_railgun_nebulosa",
"MSS_small_railgun",
"Iowa_Turret_B",
],^[^,]+,^[^,]+Hey Liral,
I like the mod, but I have an issue when pursuing ships. The fleeing ships fire missiles, which hit my ships before I'm even given the control of the ship (I can't even activate the shield before I'm hit), is this normal?
Hey Liral,
I like the mod, but I have an issue when pursuing ships. The fleeing ships fire missiles, which hit my ships before I'm even given the control of the ship (I can't even activate the shield before I'm hit), is this normal?QuoteI get that too; I have the workarounds with that. the strategy is wait it out such as let them run little bit more before deploying so the ships can burn in with enough space for it to finish and react. Also I use frigates/Arma fighters to attack from the sides at the start to draw them away or engage first.
Also, Liral. I have downloaded your mod as it should be updated 1.22.7. But the mod loader and looking into the mod file. it is listed 1.22.6.
Secondly, I'm not sure if it's the issue with 1.22.6 or so. But in the battles, I do often encounter invincible ships. mostly found on the enemy side. It wasn't really always found with modded ships but with vanilla ships. I wonder how or what really causes that to have zero hull, normal CR like nothing affected. And sometimes the shields on them are invisible. But they cannot be killed. I have the cheat mod that allows me to do the nuke command and kill command to fix that. I have tried to smite them, and they remain untouched, soft locking the battle. Even if I turn them to allies. it doesn't end the game, so I'm just stuck losing my ships to it.
Hello,
Guess that sometimes realistic combat or other mods with it can bug out with some ships and then they keep fighting with 0% hull but with combat readiness, so is that quite common or not?
It does occur to me pretty often at late game especially there is large fleet battle going on. I think that occurs more often if there are more ships aka more of those undying ships. It can vary from infinite flux with invisible shields to zero hull but it doesn't die. Even with cheat commands that kills the ship doesn't work at all due to hull being zero but it doesn't register it being destroyed.
Y'know, high intensity lasers are pretty damn good, better than tachyon lances. Higher range, better damage, and low flux cost. You could probably run a wolfpack of high intensity laser sunderers into the endgame. I even beat those doritos in the hypershunt with them - albiet with a bit of fighter support.
Rift Cascade Emitter got 2340 range, is it intentional? Seems too small.
Great mod comrade, grand work.
Hey, I didn't properly read this thing so, I went ahead and made this thing here.
Do you think you could see anything about why I can't get RC to work at all?
https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=26036.0
Hi,
Currently, Realistic combat won't work at all for me, with large ballistics or energy not working -at- all, only missiles and small ballistics.
Hey,
I'm pretty sure I figured out why Three Dimensional Targeting breaks Low-Tech PDC weapons. How I understand it, Three Dimensional Targeting means that together with the X-Y coordinates, the autotargeting takes the potential acceleration into account. "targetAspectRatio" defines how much an object has to be able to move relative to it's own size to "jink" (dodge?) an incoming projectile and PDC guns are not supposed to engage something that is far enough away where the time for the PDC projectile to the target is long enough for the targeted object to jink. This works for larger ships and somewhat for fighters, but missiles are both very small and can accelerate very fast, meaning the set targetAspectRatio of 0.25 results in a tiny allowable time to target for PDC projectiles. In fact the time is so small that missiles impact before PDCs are allowed to fire. I fixed this by setting targetAspectRatio to 5. I have never coded a Starsector mod so I'm not sure about the best way to implement this, but I assume this needs an exception for missiles where the time to target is calculated differently.
I don't really think that removing retreats for domain drones and remnants is that much of a "ducktape fix" considering the fact that in lore domain-era drones are considered to be highly disposable (and probably not very smart by extension) and remnants are considered to be aggressive to a fault (and all AI core commanders are marked as "fearless" which is like an aggressive commander but even more aggressive).
Hi, I'm having an issue where various weapons (typically weapons with bursts) have their projectiles disappear far before they should, resulting in my fleets using all their flux without hitting anything.
Name of weapons (mostly modded) that I'm having issues with-mini blaster array, flicker pd laser, autoblaster
Seem to have fixed this by loading it near to last in my load order (starsector loads alphabetically, so adding a z in front of the mods name in modinfo.json does the job)
I think your last update might've broken Autopulse Lasers and other energy weapons with ammo, they don't fire at all anymore, not on player or NPC ships. This is also apparently an issue before the last fix, but the Locust only shoots 4 missiles per bursts, that's probably not intentional as this makes it worse than two Swarmers. Also, Advanced Optics has it's tooltip messed up and I'm not sure if it works correctly. You also forgot to edit the mod_info I think, thus showing the wrong version.
Found a rather major bug, some projectile weapons which charge up or have ammo such as the Thermal Pulse Cannon do not fire properly. Makes me kinda sad as dakka makes me happy. Also, point defence is rather pitiful now
Hi everyone, first time posting on the forums here, but I've been on the discord for a bit.
I am a huge fan of RC and have been using it since about my third campaign in Starsector - of course, I noticed throughout the time I've spent playing it that not all weapons are included. This is because of the way the starsector API functions - it does not expose SYSTEM tagged weapons (or something like that as far as I understand it).
crash atSpoiler1738594 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: -1
java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: -1
at renderers.Status.renderInlineIndicator(Status.java:146)
at renderers.Status.renderDiamond(Status.java:179)
at renderers.Status.render(Status.java:198)
at plugins.Indication.renderInWorldCoords(Indication.java:70)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.Object.L$Oo.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.super.B.new(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)[close]
I like this, I really do, but the game is kinda unplayable with this. The issues, as I found them, are:
1. Playing slow and clumsy ships is absolutely miserable. Takes ages to go anywhere, too easily outmaneuvered...spent 4 irl minutes chasing a small ship which had no chance of winning and still didn't retreat, but which could endlessly stay out of range in the gigantic map
2. The new missiles are cool...but excessive. The only defense is PD, as advertised, but it's a shame that PD is trivially overwhelmed by the exponentially faster and more agile missiles. Large battles are entirely decided by whomever has the most HE missiles
3. Losing CR on hull damage is good, but could be toned down a bit. One unlucky hit and a 90% CR ship is useless despite being still able l provide plenty of hurt.
4. Terrifyingly difficult to judge how your weapons perform, if they're any good and how they work in the new system.
I think all these things could be summed up in a single sentence: starsector isn't designed with disposability in mind. The biggest problem is that ships die like flies in a game where your ships are very costly, or rare, and filled with crew. Frigates became ten times the glass cannons they were, even more frail and agile. Larger ships are easy pickings for missile spam, and the fact starsector is built with letting you tank shots with armor, this rebalance where armor doesn't reduce damage at all has all sorts of obvious consequences.
Not sure how to fix this? Starsector simply crashes.
I get a crash once the battle is over, if a Tempest's terminator drone hits an enemy ship. starsector.log has this error:
88876 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetEncounterContext.computeFPHullDamage(FleetEncounterContext.java:1970)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetEncounterContext.processEngagementResul ts(FleetEncounterContext.java:247)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.backFromEng agement(FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:594)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.prepare(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
The mods I have are:
LazyLib
MagicLib
GraphicsLib
There I see a good point. Please elaborate on what you want to know, exactly.
the AI doesn't fully understand the modified damage system
I get this error together with a crash when I join a battle, everything works just fine if I disable Realistic Combat.same
264454 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at listeners.DamageModel.modifyDamageTaken(DamageModel.java:245)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:68)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:60)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.applyDamage(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.class.oOOO.A.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.class.oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.class.oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
Some things about balance
1
High intensity laser is all you need in this mod; would appreciate the damage of the more powerful beam weapons nerfed into the ground, as having a extra-long range option is good but should not be a "I win button" (11000 range is typical for beams and 4000 is typical for shots)
- I don't think a single Sunder with a HE laser being able to beat a Onslaught in a head-to-head fight is intended.
Also don't want the damage of the smaller lasers nerfed, maybe add something along the line of "More damage -> more attenuation"; Hopefully the ia will be able to adapt to that.
2
There are many weapons that should have different ranges, like:
Antimatter blasters have the same range as other energy blasters, 4323. No point in picking anything else.
The Mjolnir cannon has only 373 less range then the Gauss cannon. No point in picking anything else then Mjolnir.
If you do this remember to reduce ranges, not add to them as very fast projectiles is what caused the shield penetration bug in the first place.
3
Do not know if this is intended but beam PD is the only realistic way to deal with maneuverable torpedos like the Atropos.
This combined with the fact that projectile PD tends to shred fighters seems like a fair trade off, just wanted to ask to make sure.
4
Phase ships need a buff, maybe maneuverability?
I'm talking like +100%
I could balance things out as I did projectile speed if you want, just need instructions on how.
Making these things configurable could let you outsource some of this if need be.
377421 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetEncounterContext.computeFPHullDamage(FleetEncounterContext.java:1970)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetEncounterContext.processEngagementResul ts(FleetEncounterContext.java:247)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.backFromEng agement(FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:594)
at exerelin.campaign.battle.NexFleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.backFromEngagement(NexFleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:87)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.prepare(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:745)
I've been having a string of crashes right after battles. 90% of battles ends up crashing the game. When I posted this on Nexerelin because it looks like it's from that mod, but someone there replied that it might have something to do with Realistic Combat. And when I disabled Realistic Combat, the crashes went away. So hoping this gets fixed because I really love this mod and want to use it all the time.
Is there a way to download the older 1.22.7 version? Since I'm using other mods which have not been updated yet.
P.S. I really could not forsee this being that hard of a request
the AI doing even weirder, more suicidal stuff than normal was my main gripe a few months ago, even while playing with a ton of what i consider semi-supported faction mods; the weapon and tactics chaos was pretty fun actually. gonna try this again in actual vanilla gameplay, good job man
Dragonfire DEMs don't seem to work their beam is shorter and they purposely move out of range of their own attack
and some weapons (Gigacannons and gauss cannons) won't fire manually unless auto-fire is turned on.
Alright, so first of all, thanks for fixing the issue with PD weapons. They were blasting all over the place without hitting anything. Shame I can't use the update cause I am still on 0.95.
Well, in the normal game, I know what 100 kinetic and 100 HE and 100 fragmentation damage means. Since vanilla has ablative armor (with a minimum value), it's all a matter of removing armor for your weapons to deal (almost) true damage to the hull. With the new system, I don't really know how effective weapons are. What does 100 kinetic give me with realistic combat? I only noticed the updated damage tooltip at the bottom of every weapon, but that's not very indicative of the new system. I under how the new damage type perform, but in practice I am blindly slapping what seems to work on my ships. Sometimes a weapon doesn't even budge the hull, sometimes it nearly 100 to 0's an enemy ship.
A side effect of this, and a welcome one, is that DPSecond is much less important compared to DPShot. While a 20x5 weapon was generally (imo) preferred vs a 100x1, now I actually take into account that high DPSecond with low DPShot weapons might not even make it through armor.
I actually kept playing after making my initial comment. I really didn't want to disable this mod, it's so damned cool! And even after coping about the (now fixed) missiles and occasionally sleeping my ships go nuclear in engagements where I had the numerical advantage, the confused AI is so annoying, for two reasons:
1. Your very helpful guide mentioned forming a line with your fleet. It works, except for those ships that overshoot the rendezvous marker by miles. Faster and clumsier ships means certain hulls that are already clunky just get gang banged because they can't slow in time, and endlessly over or undershoot.
2. Shield AI. My god, vanilla AI always toggles shield for any kind of missile or projectile incoming (unless at high flux but that's not the issue). With RC, at the range where the two fleets are in missile range but outside projectile/beam ranges, most of my fleet always takes 10% to 15% hull damage because they don't raise shields at all to block missiles (occasionally it's a minor 5% hull or a crazy 20%).
Really, the only thing I don't really like about this mod is frag damage. I loved frag damage builds, especially because a few other mode add really fun fragmentation weapons. It was all a matter of stripping armor. With the new all-or-nothing system, frag is only ever useful vs smaller and/or low armor ships.
my game crash when trying to start a random battle
error log below
542406 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.RuntimeException: Hullmod concord_captain not found!
java.lang.RuntimeException: Hullmod concord_captain not found!
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.HullVariantSpec.getAllMods(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.FleetMember.updateStats(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.ooOO.OO0OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.finishRefitOnAllShips(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.TitleScreenState.onStateTransition(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:750)
the enabled mod are
{"enabledMods": [
"lw_lazylib",
"MagicLib",
"RealisticCombat",
"shaderLib"
]}
377421 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetEncounterContext.computeFPHullDamage(FleetEncounterContext.java:1970)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetEncounterContext.processEngagementResul ts(FleetEncounterContext.java:247)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.backFromEng agement(FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:594)
at exerelin.campaign.battle.NexFleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.backFromEngagement(NexFleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:87)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.prepare(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:745)
I've been having a string of crashes right after battles. 90% of battles ends up crashing the game. When I posted this on Nexerelin because it looks like it's from that mod, but someone there replied that it might have something to do with Realistic Combat. And when I disabled Realistic Combat, the crashes went away. So hoping this gets fixed because I really love this mod and want to use it all the time.
377421 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetEncounterContext.computeFPHullDamage(FleetEncounterContext.java:1970)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetEncounterContext.processEngagementResul ts(FleetEncounterContext.java:247)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.backFromEng agement(FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:594)
at exerelin.campaign.battle.NexFleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.backFromEngagement(NexFleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:87)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.prepare(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:745)
I've been having a string of crashes right after battles. 90% of battles ends up crashing the game. When I posted this on Nexerelin because it looks like it's from that mod, but someone there replied that it might have something to do with Realistic Combat. And when I disabled Realistic Combat, the crashes went away. So hoping this gets fixed because I really love this mod and want to use it all the time.
Likewise, though it is right at the end of specific battles. Most of my battles are fine, but then a specific battle comes along that always crashes and I either have to skip it or play the battle without Realistic Combat enable.
234884 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetEncounterContext.computeFPHullDamage(FleetEncounterContext.java:1970)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetEncounterContext.processEngagementResul ts(FleetEncounterContext.java:247)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.backFromEng agement(FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:594)
at exerelin.campaign.battle.NexFleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.backFromEngagement(NexFleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:87)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.prepare(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
1.23.5 is out! Fixed a crash-to-desktop bug involving post-battle damage reporting and made certain combat skills interact with the damage model.
Thank you! Fingers crossed the duck tape holds!
I just noticed the weapon range for everything except "heavy mining laser" from KOC mod went back to vanilla values. :o
I just noticed the weapon range for everything except "heavy mining laser" from KOC mod went back to vanilla values. :o
I can't replicate this bug with just Realistic Combat enabled. Would you please tell me your Starsector version number and run with just Realistic Combat?
Just tried a couple of tests with new games and old saves, turns out Realistic Combat 1.23.5 isn't compatible with Nexerelin - everything apart from some new weapons from other mods had their range reverted to vanilla.
I didn't have backup of Realistic Combat 1.23.4 to revert and test :(
Running Starsector 0.96a RC10
I am also having issues with the current version, I followed the instructions for mod compatibility in the FAQ, however every weapon with the exception of a few mod inserted ones refuse to fire and show a range of nearly point blank. Not sure what is causing it
Testing with 1.23.4 with the same mods I had before (including the latest version of Nexerelin), the weapon issues aren't present. It does seem to be an issue with 1.23.5.
Hotfix 1.24.1 is out! Fixed weapons not being modified when loaded with Nexerelin.
I see energy weapon, ballistic, and and missile mastery skills have very different effects now. It appears that a skill like energy weapons mastery does not properly apply the CR gain to officers. Not sure about the others.
https://imgur.com/a/ZGStXfm
In this screenshot, you see that the medusa is still capped at base CR despite the officer having EWM and the medusa having 7 energy hardpoints. Even if this was fixed, these skills have been significantly nerfed due to no longer having an Elite modifier which stinks.
Atlest some HMI (Maglev Mining Generator; Silesia Nail Gun), Machina Void (Heavy ASRAAM-172 'Poke' Pod), Tahlan shipworks (Deathgaze Assault laser) and Amazigh's Ship Foundry (Destructor Rocket Artillery) weapons do not update ranges for me with the 1.24.x patches, with nexerelin and other mods. It looks like a lot more modded weapons also do not update the ranges (I'm not sure if any do), but fighters do update engagement ranges.
I've tested the same save, same modlist and HMI and machina void weapons in the station properly had their ranges increased with 1.23.4.
I see energy weapon, ballistic, and and missile mastery skills have very different effects now. It appears that a skill like energy weapons mastery does not properly apply the CR gain to officers. Not sure about the others.
https://imgur.com/a/ZGStXfm
In this screenshot, you see that the medusa is still capped at base CR despite the officer having EWM and the medusa having 7 energy hardpoints. Even if this was fixed, these skills have been significantly nerfed due to no longer having an Elite modifier which stinks.
"+10% combat readiness if trained for every weapon type mountable on this ship". The Medusa also has 2 universal mounts; therefore, all three weapon types are mountable; therefore, the officer needs training for all three types of weapons to gain 10% combat readiness. I wonder if you just missed the universal mounts or if the text was not clear. Please tell me.
[Issue] Ballistic and hybrid weapons in locked forward facing (very limited cone in which you can aim) hardpoints cannot be fired. I believe they are locked in cooldown/charge as the cooldown bar is stuck at a point in the start. When holding left click and switching to those weapons they fire, however that only works once.
Ahh, I see, I misread the description sorry about that! Understanding that now, did you feel like those vanilla skills were too strong hence the nerf? Looking missile specialization, we're going from: double missile ammo, 50% increased missile hitpoints, 50% ROF and 10% damage (with Elite), to just +10% CR which likely requires also investing in EWM and/or ballistic.
I had a similiar issue on the latest version (1.24.3), where only missile/torpedo weapons fired normally. The others fired only when button is down and switched to. It worked fine in 1.23.4.
1.24.3: button is pressed down all the time, non-missile weapons only fire when switched to from other weapons and don't act normally. some alternating weapon groups do alternate between the weapons, but do not fire. Autopilot seemed to work/fire normally, i'm not sure if autofire weapon groups fired normally.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/967787932209524748/1113175239698944171/2023-05-30_21-33-39-1.mp4
1.23.4: seemingly normal, all same mods (nexerelin + factions, some utility and others) and same save/ship/loadout
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/967787932209524748/1113178201624162385/124.mp4 (it's 1.23, bad filename)
e: 0.96a-RC10
e2: I tested 1.24.2 and 1.24.1 and the weapons work fine on 1.24.1, but 1.24.2 also had the weapon problem.
I had a similiar issue on the latest version (1.24.3), where only missile/torpedo weapons fired normally. The others fired only when button is down and switched to. It worked fine in 1.23.4.
1.24.3: button is pressed down all the time, non-missile weapons only fire when switched to from other weapons and don't act normally. some alternating weapon groups do alternate between the weapons, but do not fire. Autopilot seemed to work/fire normally, i'm not sure if autofire weapon groups fired normally.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/967787932209524748/1113175239698944171/2023-05-30_21-33-39-1.mp4
1.23.4: seemingly normal, all same mods (nexerelin + factions, some utility and others) and same save/ship/loadout
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/967787932209524748/1113178201624162385/124.mp4 (it's 1.23, bad filename)
e: 0.96a-RC10
e2: I tested 1.24.2 and 1.24.1 and the weapons work fine on 1.24.1, but 1.24.2 also had the weapon problem.
I want clicking left mouse not to fire the selected weapon group unless the player aims within the leading circle, even if the weapon group is set to autofire. Is that what is happening? If so, I should have mentioned the change, and I apologize.
Gotcha, the fact that the damage modifiers were ignored by RC anyway makes more sense then. I agree the skills shouldn't necessarily alter things a hullmod would. I'd be willing to brainstorm some ideas after I play around with the new skills and I like where you're going with the CR thinking.
For now, I just have one ask. Can you take a look at the High Intensity Laser? As a few others have mentioned, it outperforms basically every other weapon. Try simulating a paragon with plasma/tachyon against something like an onslaught or para, then swap those weapons out for HILs. You'll see how strong they are - like melting the enemy in a fraction of the time strong. Maybe it's a combination of range, DPS, and 150% damage to both shields and ships that turns them into death beams. Before, you mentioned changing the OP cost to reflect their strength but honestly the HILs would beat plasmas even at 30+OP. I feel cheaty using them at all. As always, thanks for your great mod and hard work.
uh, an idea for beams. love the mod, doesn't feel good to play without it anymore.
Beams could interact with armor differendly, they don't really penetrate as much as they burn through armor - any beam could penetrate if you point in the same place long enough.
You can aim with beams quite freely, so it's plausible you could hit one place of compromised armor for a long time (if the beam also hits the same spot on the ship). You'd keep track of the worst area of compromised armor in a area, and assume all beams hit there for beam dmg/armor strip. Other weapons penetrate as they already did, and possibly create holes, that beams could go through without burning?
Maybe lower/any damage weapons could penetrate via smaller areas of compromised armor when the ship's engines are disabled or you are point blank/super fast projectiles vs enemy manouver.
tldr keep track of armor rating like in vanilla, but it'd keep track of biggest hole in armor and beams would always try to burn/hit there. penetrating hits chunk armor like a beam would have burned it in that angle, beams burn it slowly. beams do not penetrate if armor is not compromised in the area.
bad illustrationSpoilernumbers just tossed there, 75% armor for half way burn thru, 50% for straight angle penetration (either burned or penetrating hit stripped it`?), lower percentage armor means wider hole/penetrated from a smaller/steeper angle.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/967787932209524748/1113240807030411285/image.png)[close]
There's something weird happening when switching weapons with button pressed (shoot full auto with a slow firing weapon). The first video 00:14. I tested it with no other mods, only realistic combat and weapons will shoot a burst if switched to with button pressed, regardless of the weapon being able to shoot that fast normally. It can fill your flux fully.
e: from some testing, switching to same group firest the weapon once, switching to another group firest that group in a burst regardless of firerate.
I downloaded the new update and the ranges are all fixed, but for some reason many weapons still don't shoot when I left click. I keep testing with the Hypervelocity drivers and nothing happens, although the range is now what it should be again.
Okay so I had been locking on, and after only clicking on the aiming lead it did fire a few times, but it is hard to tell when its able to fire. The cooldown bar never fully empties, so I'm not sure when the weapons are actually ready, and the weapons would only fire when the enemy got within 2/3 of the max range on the meter. If its based on clicking where the aim lead is, is it possible to increase the size of it? Since I play very zoomed out due to the increased engagement range with the mod, it is very hard to see.
I can't figure out how to add a picture, but the big issue is that the weapons aren't fully cooling down? I haven't had this issue ever before using RC so I don't really know what the conflict is, eg., I can't even just dumb fire. I just spam click and nothing happens, even some of the weapons on autofire don't do anything. When I switch to them the cooldown is either stuck at half full, or it ticks down to almost ready to fire then ticks up again even though it hasn't shot.
The latest update is working great for me now, thank you for the effort!
On another note, I've observed this mod made battles pretty beam-heavy and kinetic weapons are really feeling unnecessary. Most fighting are done by those 11000 range beams weapons with near perfect accuracy.
I'd love to see more kinetic weapon relevancy and physics thrown in - like they can have massive range and damage (as a hunk of metal flying through space should), but held in check by heavy recoil and the fact that they can potentiall miss the target due to travel time, and maybe reloading speed depending on the size of the gun. Hypervelocity and Gauss cannons used to be so sought after but now they're kinda meh.
Kinetic weapons still dont work even when aiming at the circle, aswell as the autopilot or autofire not being able to use them either. Is there any way to disable that feature?
Kinetic weapons still dont work even when aiming at the circle, aswell as the autopilot or autofire not being able to use them either. Is there any way to disable that feature?
I have no problems with autopilot using all weapons. Maybe post the list of mods you're using with this one?
I've had infrequent CTDs sometimes, either in the middle of battle or just at the end of battles. (Just had one right now fighting a Remnant fleet). I get a "Fatal: Null - Check starsector.log for more info." message and finding this file gives me the following text.
I do run a handful of mods, but none I can see that would cause a conflict with Realistic Combat, at least from what I tell reading the crashlog myself. I posted in the general bug report forum last night, and was told that it was most likely an issue with Realistic Combat.. hence why I am here.
The mods I run (Realistic Combat, Combat chatter, Fleet Action History, Fuel Siphoning, LazyLib, MagicLib, Autosave and Terraforming & Stations). At the time of posting the original comment last night it involved the "Special ships", the automated defences around a Hypershunt that breaks apart into smaller ships when destroyed? (I don't actually know the name of them yet) It crashes a second or two after one of them breaks up.
The other time it happens is right after a battle has been concluded. Mostly with pirates (as those are the ones I fight the most), but also now occasionally some Remnant ships and mostly when it comes to very large fleets. I've been able to circumvent the issue by just.. not doing the battles, but it's not always I can do that, and since it happens so infrequently and I've honestly no idea when it will happen.
TL;DR?
v1.23.4 crashes at the end of battles or in the middle of battles. Energy weapons work fine (Far as I can tell) whilst kinetic does have issues firing.
v1.25.0 crashes at the end of battles or in the middle of battles. Energy weapons experience similar issues to kinetic (Sustained Beam weapons like PDs, and missiles work just fine) and have issues firing properly or at all.
I've had infrequent CTDs sometimes, either in the middle of battle or just at the end of battles. (Just had one right now fighting a Remnant fleet). I get a "Fatal: Null - Check starsector.log for more info." message and finding this file gives me the following text.
I do run a handful of mods, but none I can see that would cause a conflict with Realistic Combat, at least from what I tell reading the crashlog myself. I posted in the general bug report forum last night, and was told that it was most likely an issue with Realistic Combat.. hence why I am here.
The mods I run (Realistic Combat, Combat chatter, Fleet Action History, Fuel Siphoning, LazyLib, MagicLib, Autosave and Terraforming & Stations). At the time of posting the original comment last night it involved the "Special ships", the automated defences around a Hypershunt that breaks apart into smaller ships when destroyed? (I don't actually know the name of them yet) It crashes a second or two after one of them breaks up.
The other time it happens is right after a battle has been concluded. Mostly with pirates (as those are the ones I fight the most), but also now occasionally some Remnant ships and mostly when it comes to very large fleets. I've been able to circumvent the issue by just.. not doing the battles, but it's not always I can do that, and since it happens so infrequently and I've honestly no idea when it will happen.
TL;DR?
v1.23.4 crashes at the end of battles or in the middle of battles. Energy weapons work fine (Far as I can tell) whilst kinetic does have issues firing.
v1.25.0 crashes at the end of battles or in the middle of battles. Energy weapons experience similar issues to kinetic (Sustained Beam weapons like PDs, and missiles work just fine) and have issues firing properly or at all.
Oh no, looks like a problem! Does the same error log appear after every crash-to-desktop? The one after a battle I suspect to involve Fleet Action History because it wants combat damage data, which Realistic Combat gives but probably not as well as vanilla does.
Yes I would say so. The same kind (or at least very similar to my untrained eyes) of error gets spat out everytime it crashes me to desktop. I shall try without the Fleet action history mod to see if the ones post battle stop happening. But I am.. fairly sure that the CTD's happened with out that mod, but now I'm uncertain..
Would it cause the game to crash in the middle of battles though? Namely with the special ships that break up into smaller ones when destroyed? Cause I saw a pattern there and I can probably replicate it by going back and fighting that battle again (Since I was never able to finish it)
Yes I would say so. The same kind (or at least very similar to my untrained eyes) of error gets spat out everytime it crashes me to desktop. I shall try without the Fleet action history mod to see if the ones post battle stop happening. But I am.. fairly sure that the CTD's happened with out that mod, but now I'm uncertain..
Good idea. Please tell me once you have.QuoteWould it cause the game to crash in the middle of battles though? Namely with the special ships that break up into smaller ones when destroyed? Cause I saw a pattern there and I can probably replicate it by going back and fighting that battle again (Since I was never able to finish it)
Please replicate it if the [COMSEC] ships which [REDACTED], if possible! If the [SUPER REDACTED] causes the problem, I might have to [RESTRICTED].
Took me a while, I got distracted by actually playing the game and watching movies and today going to birthdays..
Using 1.23.4
1st battle fighting the [REDACTED] at the Thingywhingy, the ones that split apart.Spoiler10444303 [Thread-3] INFO fleethistory.BattleLogger - Battle logger initialized
10464716 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Picked fleet Automated Defenses
10464716 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Stars Below, isEnemy 0
10464716 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Servant Of War, isEnemy 0
10464716 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Hashmallim, isEnemy 0
10464717 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Sol Long, isEnemy 0
10464717 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Prosperous Gale, isEnemy 0
10464717 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Caspian Sky, isEnemy 0
10464717 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Lugos, isEnemy 0
10464717 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Shields, What Shields?, isEnemy 0
10464717 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Manawydan, isEnemy 0
10464717 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Starfarer, isEnemy 0
10464718 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10464718 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Prize of High Orbit, isEnemy 0
10465212 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Playing intro sound
10467379 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
10467379 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
10467379 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
10467379 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
10467380 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
10467380 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
10467380 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
10467380 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
10467380 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
10467380 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
10467871 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
10467871 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
10488948 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
10489405 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
10491230 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
10496763 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10497175 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
10502298 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10503238 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
10504134 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
10510459 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10511782 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10514857 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
10516143 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
10516603 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10517039 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
10520092 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
10522807 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10526851 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10527277 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10529065 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
10531369 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
10531369 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10533533 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10535275 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10536664 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
10541946 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10542423 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10544562 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
10546346 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
10558119 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Viking, isEnemy 0
10558119 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Anticlea, isEnemy 0
10558119 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Keter, isEnemy 0
10559949 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10563954 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
10570759 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10573102 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
10577621 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10578112 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10579049 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
10579570 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at listeners.DamageModel.modifyDamageTaken(DamageModel.java:245)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:68)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:60)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.applyDamage(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.super.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)[close]
This is with the fleet history mod.
2nd battleSpoiler387167 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Picked fleet Automated Defenses
387167 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Shields, What Shields?, isEnemy 0
387167 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Stars Below, isEnemy 0
387167 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Manawydan, isEnemy 0
387168 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Starfarer, isEnemy 0
387168 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Prosperous Gale, isEnemy 0
387168 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Lugos, isEnemy 0
387168 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Caspian Sky, isEnemy 0
387168 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Munippus, isEnemy 0
387168 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
387169 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Prize of High Orbit, isEnemy 0
387667 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Playing intro sound
389900 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
389900 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
389900 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
389900 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
389900 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
389901 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
389901 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
389901 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
389901 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
389901 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
389902 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
389902 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
389902 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
389902 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
389902 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
391204 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
397237 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
446676 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
451372 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
454658 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
458228 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
467947 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
469779 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
471499 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
476053 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
477971 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
482140 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
482569 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
488525 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
492311 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
492311 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
493210 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
496845 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
497802 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
500595 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
509197 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
511916 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
512280 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at listeners.DamageModel.modifyDamageTaken(DamageModel.java:245)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:68)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:60)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.applyDamage(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.super.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)[close]
This is without the fleet history mod. Crashed both times half a second or so after the first ship splits apart.
Edit: And I just had another post battle crash, without the fleet action history mod so...Spoiler4636652 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Stars Below, isEnemy 0
4636652 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Shields, What Shields?, isEnemy 0
4636653 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Star Ark, isEnemy 0
4636653 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Keter, isEnemy 0
4636653 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Prosperous Gale, isEnemy 0
4636653 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Anticlea, isEnemy 0
4636653 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Viking, isEnemy 0
4636653 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4636653 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Prize of High Orbit, isEnemy 0
4636653 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
4637067 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4637067 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
4639509 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
4639509 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
4650839 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4665449 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4689810 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4691247 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4692541 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4697627 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4699495 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4704172 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4705943 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4723194 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Golden Arrow, isEnemy 0
4723194 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship Bene Elohim, isEnemy 0
4743395 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4746654 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4747142 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
4747562 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4750225 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4756484 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4781687 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4782634 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4783555 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4784464 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4790804 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4798147 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4800457 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4827098 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4827513 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4830224 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4835168 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
4836467 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4839259 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4861278 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4864350 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4870272 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4871567 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4884792 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4886565 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4888028 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4888435 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4898516 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4901682 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4924626 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4926498 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4938631 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4943999 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4952554 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4959928 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4961823 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4965973 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4977506 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetEncounterContext.computeFPHullDamage(FleetEncounterContext.java:1970)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetEncounterContext.processEngagementResul ts(FleetEncounterContext.java:247)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.backFromEng agement(FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:594)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.prepare(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)[close]
Took me a while, I got distracted by actually playing the game and watching movies and today going to birthdays..
Using 1.23.4
1st battle fighting the [REDACTED] at the Thingywhingy, the ones that split apart.Spoiler10444303 [Thread-3] INFO fleethistory.BattleLogger - Battle logger initialized
10464716 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Picked fleet Automated Defenses
10464716 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Stars Below, isEnemy 0
10464716 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Servant Of War, isEnemy 0
10464716 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Hashmallim, isEnemy 0
10464717 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Sol Long, isEnemy 0
10464717 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Prosperous Gale, isEnemy 0
10464717 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Caspian Sky, isEnemy 0
10464717 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Lugos, isEnemy 0
10464717 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Shields, What Shields?, isEnemy 0
10464717 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Manawydan, isEnemy 0
10464717 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Starfarer, isEnemy 0
10464718 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10464718 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Prize of High Orbit, isEnemy 0
10465212 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Playing intro sound
10467379 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
10467379 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
10467379 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
10467379 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
10467380 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
10467380 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
10467380 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
10467380 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
10467380 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
10467380 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
10467871 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
10467871 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
10488948 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
10489405 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
10491230 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
10496763 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10497175 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
10502298 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10503238 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
10504134 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
10510459 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10511782 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10514857 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
10516143 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
10516603 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10517039 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
10520092 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
10522807 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10526851 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10527277 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10529065 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
10531369 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
10531369 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10533533 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10535275 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10536664 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
10541946 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10542423 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10544562 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
10546346 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
10558119 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Viking, isEnemy 0
10558119 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Anticlea, isEnemy 0
10558119 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Keter, isEnemy 0
10559949 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10563954 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
10570759 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10573102 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
10577621 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10578112 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
10579049 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
10579570 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at listeners.DamageModel.modifyDamageTaken(DamageModel.java:245)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:68)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:60)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.applyDamage(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.super.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)[close]
This is with the fleet history mod.
2nd battleSpoiler387167 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Picked fleet Automated Defenses
387167 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Shields, What Shields?, isEnemy 0
387167 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Stars Below, isEnemy 0
387167 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Manawydan, isEnemy 0
387168 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Starfarer, isEnemy 0
387168 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Prosperous Gale, isEnemy 0
387168 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Lugos, isEnemy 0
387168 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Caspian Sky, isEnemy 0
387168 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Munippus, isEnemy 0
387168 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
387169 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Prize of High Orbit, isEnemy 0
387667 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Playing intro sound
389900 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
389900 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
389900 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
389900 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
389900 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
389901 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
389901 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
389901 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
389901 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
389901 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
389902 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
389902 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
389902 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
389902 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
389902 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
391204 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
397237 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
446676 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
451372 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
454658 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
458228 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
467947 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
469779 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
471499 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
476053 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
477971 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
482140 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
482569 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
488525 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
492311 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
492311 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
493210 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
496845 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
497802 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
500595 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
509197 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
511916 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
512280 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at listeners.DamageModel.modifyDamageTaken(DamageModel.java:245)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:68)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:60)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.applyDamage(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.super.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)[close]
This is without the fleet history mod. Crashed both times half a second or so after the first ship splits apart.
Edit: And I just had another post battle crash, without the fleet action history mod so...Spoiler4636652 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Stars Below, isEnemy 0
4636652 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Shields, What Shields?, isEnemy 0
4636653 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Star Ark, isEnemy 0
4636653 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Keter, isEnemy 0
4636653 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Prosperous Gale, isEnemy 0
4636653 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Anticlea, isEnemy 0
4636653 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Viking, isEnemy 0
4636653 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4636653 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Prize of High Orbit, isEnemy 0
4636653 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
4637067 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4637067 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
4639509 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
4639509 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship null, isEnemy 0
4650839 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4665449 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4689810 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4691247 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4692541 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4697627 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4699495 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4704172 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4705943 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4723194 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship ISS Golden Arrow, isEnemy 0
4723194 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship Bene Elohim, isEnemy 0
4743395 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4746654 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4747142 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
4747562 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4750225 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4756484 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4781687 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4782634 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4783555 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4784464 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4790804 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4798147 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4800457 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4827098 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4827513 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4830224 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4835168 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [destroyer]
4836467 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4839259 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4861278 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4864350 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4870272 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4871567 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4884792 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4886565 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4888028 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4888435 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4898516 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4901682 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4924626 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4926498 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4938631 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4943999 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4952554 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4959928 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [cruiser]
4961823 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4965973 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.loading.StarfarerStrings - Missing string: [frigate]
4977506 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetEncounterContext.computeFPHullDamage(FleetEncounterContext.java:1970)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetEncounterContext.processEngagementResul ts(FleetEncounterContext.java:247)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.backFromEng agement(FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:594)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.prepare(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)[close]
Thanks for testing and posting because it helps me understand. First, I have updated Realistic Combat to version 1.25.1 since your crashes: would you please fight the [REDACTED], using the newest version, without Fleet Action History or Combat Chatter? I suspect the game will crash again, revealing a bug in the Realistic Combat Damage Model.
No Fleet action history or combat chatter, Just realistic combat 1.25.1
Same thing as usual, half a second or so after the ship breaks up into smaller ones, the game crashes.Spoiler1076330 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at listeners.DamageModel.modifyDamageTaken(DamageModel.java:252)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:68)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:60)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.applyDamage(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.super.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)[close]
Also I gotta say, having fought the same battle 20-30 times now bugtesting this.. They are QUITE difficult to fight.
Hey I've been having a bit of problem with the red circle. When fighting certain small ships its SUPER hard to see, especially when overlapping with the ship itself. It would be cool if there was some way to make it more visible.
Beam weapons are currently extremely overpowered, far outmatching other weapon types to the point where a ship with a large beam can wipe out entire fleets before they even get into engagement range
Beam weapons are currently extremely overpowered, far outmatching other weapon types to the point where a ship with a large beam can wipe out entire fleets before they even get into engagement range
Also 2 things relating to the character skills.
1. are you gonna add elite versions to the skills you've changed?
Its kinda awkward still being able to make them elite but it not having any elite effect.
And 2, i feel like the effect for the Training skills could use some work. Just a combat readiness boost seems a bit boring.
And its extremely rough that Missile weapon Training only has the combat readiness buff while still being a max tier skill. Its just anticlimatic and it forces a player to invest 7 skill points JUST to get the effect on a ship with all 3 weapon mount types. Thats half the default max level entirely invested to make 1 skill work. Honestly
If you want to stick with the combat readieness thing, i suggest just putting Missile weapon Training as a level 1 skill with the rest and replacing it with one that actually makes sense to be max tier.
(Also built in weapons are basically always considered universal weapon mounts. Thereby you automatically need all 3 training skills to get the skills effect on any ship with built in weapons.
254486 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at listeners.DamageModel.modifyDamageTaken(DamageModel.java:196)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:68)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:60)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.applyDamage(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.super.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)Unfortunately I'm getting an in-combat crash (different than the post-combat crashes you fixed). This only just happened upon fighting doritos for the first time this campaign so I suspect the crash is related to them. I confirmed the crash happened consistently no matter what ships I used and the crash happens on 1.25.2 and an older version. From a little testing, I think the crash happens when the dorito dies and transforms but I am not positive.Code254486 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at listeners.DamageModel.modifyDamageTaken(DamageModel.java:196)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:68)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:60)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.applyDamage(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.super.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
815224 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: -1Instead of Realistic Combat's own radar (via setting "enabled" to false in Radar.json), I prefer LazyWizard's Combat Radar instead, so it seems as though there's a conflict in rendering certain on-screen indicators that doesn't occur if Realistic Combat is disabled entirely.
java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: -1
at RealisticCombat.renderers.Status.renderInlineIndicator(Status.java:146)
at RealisticCombat.renderers.Status.renderDiamond(Status.java:186)
at RealisticCombat.renderers.Status.render(Status.java:203)
at RealisticCombat.plugins.Indication.renderInWorldCoords(Indication.java:70)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.Object.for$Oo.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.super.new.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:750)
398869 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NegativeArraySizeException
java.lang.NegativeArraySizeException
at RealisticCombat.renderers.Status.getVertices(Status.java:89)
at RealisticCombat.renderers.Status.renderInlineIndicator(Status.java:144)
at RealisticCombat.renderers.Status.renderDiamond(Status.java:186)
at RealisticCombat.renderers.Status.render(Status.java:203)
at RealisticCombat.plugins.Indication.renderInWorldCoords(Indication.java:70)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.Object.for$Oo.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.super.new.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)I have an issue where I cant fire anything with the regular left mouse button. I've tested without this mod and it lets me fire stuff fine but with the mod enabled I can't manually fire anything. The weapons will autofire if I have them unselected but the selected weapon will not fire no matter what I try. Any ideas? I am running some other mods such as Advanced Gunnery Control and Combat Activators.
Unfortunately I'm getting an in-combat crash (different than the post-combat crashes you fixed). This only just happened upon fighting doritos for the first time this campaign so I suspect the crash is related to them. I confirmed the crash happened consistently no matter what ships I used and the crash happens on 1.25.2 and an older version. From a little testing, I think the crash happens when the dorito dies and transforms but I am not positive.Code254486 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at listeners.DamageModel.modifyDamageTaken(DamageModel.java:196)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:68)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:60)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.applyDamage(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.super.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Unfortunately I'm getting an in-combat crash (different than the post-combat crashes you fixed). This only just happened upon fighting doritos for the first time this campaign so I suspect the crash is related to them. I confirmed the crash happened consistently no matter what ships I used and the crash happens on 1.25.2 and an older version. From a little testing, I think the crash happens when the dorito dies and transforms but I am not positive.Code254486 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at listeners.DamageModel.modifyDamageTaken(DamageModel.java:196)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:68)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:60)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.applyDamage(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.super.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.oOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Yeah that's the issue I've been having as well recently, I believe they're looking into it.
9936553 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at RealisticCombat.listeners.DamageModel.modifyDamageTaken(DamageModel.java:252)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:68)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:60)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.applyDamage(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.A.super.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.A.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.E.A.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:745)
CTD when I finished battles with [REDACTED] shunt guards and later units
DUDE the weapons no fire, no matter what i do it no work. please my name is artyom if you wanted to know
help real combat favorite mod
i no want to play without but
this version no work
please
fix
Hey. Big old problem with the beam nerf.
While i agree continual beams needed a nerf, pulse beams were already quite bad.
Now pulse beams like Tachyon Lances are absolutely worthless.
A radiant with 5 tachyon lances can't even kill a single dominator.
I've tested it multiple times. The Radiant lost every round.
The Radiant literally runs out of Sabots because the Tachyon lances are so bad at dealing damage.
Meanwhile a Radiant with 5 high intensity lasers can still solo paragons with absolute ease.
Also High Scatter Amplifier does not appear to work and Advanced Optics appears to be locked to 0 range increase.
I believe I've ran into another CTD bug involving Realistic Combat. At least it is related to combat once again.Spoiler3703643 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NegativeArraySizeException
java.lang.NegativeArraySizeException
at renderers.Status.getVertices(Status.java:89)
at renderers.Status.renderInlineIndicator(Status.java:144)
at renderers.Status.renderDiamond(Status.java:186)
at renderers.Status.render(Status.java:203)
at plugins.Indication.renderInWorldCoords(Indication.java:70)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.Object.for$Oo.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.super.new.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)[close]
it happens now and again in the middle of battles, mostly with pirates and Luddic Path fleets. But not always, I've as of yet not really been able to find out a way to reproduce it other than fighting the same fleet over and over again.
I do run a fair few more mods now, including a few ones that adds ships, so I wonder if the issue might lie in there? No clue.SpoilerBigBeans Ship compilation,
Fuel Siphoning,
Junk Yard Dogs,
LazyLib,
LunaLib,
MagicLib,
Nexerelin,
Ore Refinery,
Realistic Combat,
Starship Legends,
Support ships Pack,
Terraforming & Station construction.[close]
Code398869 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NegativeArraySizeException
java.lang.NegativeArraySizeException
at RealisticCombat.renderers.Status.getVertices(Status.java:89)
at RealisticCombat.renderers.Status.renderInlineIndicator(Status.java:144)
at RealisticCombat.renderers.Status.renderDiamond(Status.java:186)
at RealisticCombat.renderers.Status.render(Status.java:203)
at RealisticCombat.plugins.Indication.renderInWorldCoords(Indication.java:70)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.Object.for$Oo.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.super.new.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Crashes shortly after entering combat, especially with the Luddic Path it seems like. Currently working on figuring out what mods of mine impact the luddic path and trying to test compatibility individually. Game runs fine againt LP when i disable realistic combat.
Mods currently used:
Spoiler"Angry Periphery",
"anotherportraitpack",
"lw_autosave",
"CFT",
"chatter",
"lw_radar",
"edshipyard",
"Everybody loves KoC",
"a111164_ExtendPack",
"sun_fuel_siphoning",
"interestingportraitspack",
"Imperium",
"lw_lazylib",
"ArkLeg",
"exshippack",
"MagicLib",
"Mayasuran Navy",
"nexerelin",
"kayse_phaseships",
"RealisticCombat",
"scalartech",
"swp",
"spacetruckin",
"speedUp",
"supportships",
"tahlan",
"star_federation",
"XhanEmpire",
"prvExtra",
"prv",
"shaderLib"[close]
How does this mod change additional armor damages such as Breacher and Disintegrator? Especially the latter, given it makes sense that Disintegrator reduces armor locally?
Can you help me understand armor penetration, specifically surface armor?
So from the field guide my understanding is that whatever armor rating of your ship, 1/15th of that value is your outer / surface armor. This is the amount of armor that must be penetrated for ANY damage to be applied to ship hull. So if a ship has 750 armor, only effective hits dealing more than 50 penetrative damage will start to apply hull damage to the ship. So that would mean an IR pulse laser's energy blast would do nothing (50 energy damage @ 100% penetration = 50, under 50+ threshold to penetrate surface armor), or a machine gun bullet would do nothing (25 kinetic damage @ 150% penetration = 37.5, under 50+ threshold), or even some massive fragmentation weapon dealing 400 damage would do nothing (400 fragmentation damage @ 12.5% penetration = 50, under 50+ threshold).
And my understanding is this damage would be further mitigated by angling. So ok, great, you shot a 50 damage kinetic round at the target which should do a max armor penetration of 75 if it impacted at 90 degrees to the target, but the shot actually hit at a 45 degree angle, so maybe it only does 1/2 or 37.5 effective penetrative damage and still does no hull damage because it can't penetrate the surface armor.
However, I'm not sure I'm seeing this play out. I have fighter wings which have a fragmentation damage weapon which deals 50 per hit. I would expect them to shred unarmored missiles and fighters given the 200% ship damage multiplier fragmentation damage does, as well as hard flux the heck out of shielded targets given the 200% shield damage multiplier fragmentation damage does. However, I would expect those hits to do nothing to any ship with more than 100 armor, as the frag damage's max armor penetration would be 6.25. Yet I'm seeing these fighters able to dispatch hounds, cerebus, and other frigates with 400 armor (26.67 surface armor).
What am I not understanding in the math? Is projectile speed also playing into damage calculations? Like the fact the fighters are dive bombing in at 500 speed against an enemy racing toward them at 400 speed, creating +900 relative speed difference when the bullet hits adds massively to the effective damage value? That still seems like a massive step up, going from a 6.25 armor penetration base value to something that defeats 26.67 surface armor. Is my understanding of angling damage calculation wrong, that a 90 degree hit isn't a 1x multiplier but like a 10x multiplier, and a 1 degree hit is a 1x multiplier? And since fighters are doing strafing runs they are landing nearly 100% 90 degree angle hits on their targets?
Also, beam damage. How much higher is the damage multiplier at point blank range? 6x? Mining lasers are shown as having 30 energy beam damage, and I believe I'm still seeing borer drones using them do some hull damage against 1600 armor heavy armor eradicators (107 surface armor). The borers get close, but not point blank, so they still have to be doing 4x or more to be penetrating the surface armor as they are.
The issue with the most recent crashes is because of the indicators for ships, missiles and what have you. The little triangles and diamonds when you zoom way out on the map. I think it is some kind of minor incompatibility with modded in ships, from the various ship mods that have been noted in the thread so far (including the ones I run with)
The issue can be circumvented for the moment by simply turning the indicators off. By going into the RealisticCombat\data\config and in the indicators.json file
"general":{
"Use the default settings written into the code of":"",
"each indicator rather than the custom settings":"",
"in the corresponding section.":"",
"default":true, < This one
And changing the default state to false instead of true. This turns off all the indicators on the map when you zoom out, including the ones for weapons and I believe the targeting reticule... But honestly until a fix can be pushed it's better than having to constantly worry about crashing.
As a precaution I turned off the radar as well, same place in the folders. under Radar.json, simply swapping "enabled" to false.
Doing this I've been able to avoid crashing out of a game fighting a Luddic Path fleet. I hope this helps everyone else.
Edit: Also it would be nice if we could shoot the guns without having to have our mouse squarely inside the lead indicator.
I have an issue where I cant fire anything with the regular left mouse button. I've tested without this mod and it lets me fire stuff fine but with the mod enabled I can't manually fire anything. The weapons will autofire if I have them unselected but the selected weapon will not fire no matter what I try. Any ideas? I am running some other mods such as Advanced Gunnery Control and Combat Activators.
Turn off the three dimensional targetting in the data/config/toggles
"threeDimensionalTargeting":false,
The issue with the most recent crashes is because of the indicators for ships, missiles and what have you. The little triangles and diamonds when you zoom way out on the map. I think it is some kind of minor incompatibility with modded in ships, from the various ship mods that have been noted in the thread so far (including the ones I run with)
The issue can be circumvented for the moment by simply turning the indicators off. By going into the RealisticCombat\data\config and in the indicators.json file
"general":{
"Use the default settings written into the code of":"",
"each indicator rather than the custom settings":"",
"in the corresponding section.":"",
"default":true, < This one
And changing the default state to false instead of true. This turns off all the indicators on the map when you zoom out, including the ones for weapons and I believe the targeting reticule... But honestly until a fix can be pushed it's better than having to constantly worry about crashing.
As a precaution I turned off the radar as well, same place in the folders. under Radar.json, simply swapping "enabled" to false.
Doing this I've been able to avoid crashing out of a game fighting a Luddic Path fleet. I hope this helps everyone else.
Turning that toggle shouldn't disable the indicators. ??? If you want to toggle them or any other feature, then go to Toggles.json. In any case, I hope this patch fixes the bug.
Patch 1.26.0 is out! Fleets now retreat once outnumbered or having lost too many ships. As usual, this feature is toggleable in Toggles.json; it is configurable in EnemyFleetRetreat.json. A CTD with [OMEGA REDACTED] is fixed, as is one involving the Pathers and Pirates.
Patch 1.26.0 is out! Fleets now retreat once outnumbered or having lost too many ships. As usual, this feature is toggleable in Toggles.json; it is configurable in EnemyFleetRetreat.json. A CTD with [OMEGA REDACTED] is fixed, as is one involving the Pathers and Pirates.
Thank you for your good work sir! I've been waiting!
Enemy fleets keep retreating regardless of the toggle, resulting in a cycle of engagement until their CR runs out and self destructs.... Kinda time wasting :/
They full retreat right at the start of the battle even when I send a single 9dp ship.
Patch 1.27.0 is out! Added free look! Default keys are "/" to toggle, "," to zoom in, and "." to zoom out.
Yes. Just hit "/" and move the camera around.
that's great! I may try out some things!
sooo... you can´t shoot normally with this mod, is there a way to modify it so you don´t have to always have the enemy locked and the mouse riiiight over the enemy vessel in order to fire your weapons? it´s really anoying and it´s keeping me from using this mod really.
I've been playing Starsector since 2011. This changes everything.
You're a madlad.
Having issues when fighting certain ships, right now, a sinistral. Here is the Error:I've also gotten this particular CTD, @Liral... and it almost exclusively occurs in the Simulator; only tested it in the campaign's Refit screen and not from the 'Missions' menu myself, though.
215468 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at RealisticCombat.plugins.EnemyFleetRetreat.advance(EnemyFleetRetreat.java:54)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.Object.for$Oo.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.super.new.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
Having issues when fighting certain ships, right now, a sinistral. Here is the Error:I've also gotten this particular CTD, @Liral... and it almost exclusively occurs in the Simulator; only tested it in the campaign's Refit screen and not from the 'Missions' menu myself, though.
215468 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at RealisticCombat.plugins.EnemyFleetRetreat.advance(EnemyFleetRetreat.java:54)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.Object.for$Oo.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.super.new.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
Projectile guns wont work whatsoever i changed the file in the folder and guns just don't shoot
Having issues when fighting certain ships, right now, a sinistral. Here is the Error:
215468 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at RealisticCombat.plugins.EnemyFleetRetreat.advance(EnemyFleetRetreat.java:54)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.Object.for$Oo.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.super.new.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
My work-around is to disable the mod, play, and re-enable after the battle. I just had the crash again when fighting pirates.
Autosave mod is a lifesaver currently.
been getting random crashes during simulations
2314786 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at RealisticCombat.plugins.EnemyFleetRetreat.advance(EnemyFleetRetreat.java:54)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.Object.for$Oo.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.super.new.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
2315125 [Thread-9] INFO
I encountered a bug with the radar feature.
It seems to be an incompatibility between GraphicsLib , the radar function and AMD graphic cards.
During a fight , usually when changing zoom level, the screen goes black. The game keeps running, and parts of the UI are still there, I can even go back to the main menu which is black too except for the menu options (New game, load , settings etc ) .
After removing most of my mods but the libraries and Realistic combat and still encountering the issue, I saw this on the GraphicsLib main page :
"AMD GPUs cannot run Combat Radar and GraphicsLib shaders at the same time (black screen!)
If you use an AMD GPU, disable Combat Radar or disable shaders."
I didn't have Combat Radar installed, but then I remembered seeing a "Radar.json" in this mod's config files. And I do have an AMD card.
And indeed, setting "enabled":false in that file solved my black screen issue.
It might be a good idea to add a note about that in the first post, just to avoid future headaches for future users ;)
Apologies if this is well-known and I just missed the information entirely ^^
Hotfix 1.27.1 is out! Fixed a null-pointer exception and an array index out of bounds exception.
Love this mod, definitely can't play without it. Glad you fixed it so quick. Thank you!
Thanks for the fix! sorry for not elaborating. It was the same issue as others had listed before. uncommonly during simulation I would encounter this crash during retreats. It also just happened when I attacked a pirate station. But thank you so much for the fix! this is by far my most essential mod when I play this game.
Hmmm, are drones supposed to be fleeing constantly now?
Exploring domain-era derelicts early-game, the drones you fight occasionally here keep fleeing away after a few hits, requiring me to pursue them again and again until they are so CR depleted that they basically explode on the spot...
Is that intended behavior or is there an issue in my config?
I mean, they are drones protecting a derelict, either they flee and I loot or they fight to the death. How could they flee yet still protect the derelict? ^^
I'm having quite a few issues with this mod, battles are fought at very long range almost out of camera looking like tiny dots shooting tinier dots at each others, a drone seems to be able to kill a Wolf in 1 vs 1 , the ships you don't directly control seem to think they are alone on the battlefield, a capital ship will flee even an unarmed fuel carrier if its CR goes below 45% ....
Hi, have the same behavior, redacted drones flee half of time, looks like range between fleets too high and whey turn into flee mod, some times closest drones agro and distant ones flee
And i have some problem with ship behavior too, some ships(on my side 2 missile destroyers with caution command) run directly into enemies ignoring 8k range gun and escort command, and start fight around 1.5k range until die, around 70% times its happen, some times whey realize what whey not brawlers, but its so rare
Plus, some ballistic try shoot at max range but projectile despawn before reach target, what lead to one sided death, in energy(especially beam) weapon i cant see same behavior
So i can say ballistic(cant say all or some modded) can behave strange(ignoring real range or cant shoot at real range)
Yes I'm using the latest version. I updated from 1.27 to 1.27.1 when it released, same issue.
I do use a lot of mods together so it might be a weird interaction but that is something I watch for and nothing seems to fill that spot here.
The drone fleeing issue is still here even after starting a new game, and is indeed resolved as soon as I disable Realistic Combat.
I found the free camera button, but you almost never have your own ship and the one you aim for in the same view with the long range fights, I don't understand that part, how are you supposed to aim and fight almost blindly?
Fleeing when in danger or low CR is a nice touch, but 45% isn't low CR yet and and an unarmed tanker isn't a threat to a capital ship...
Seeing how everyone considers this mod "essential" or "almost mandatory" ,
I wanted to check, but I really don't get it ^^ Maybe it's just "not the mod for me" but between the long-range, the fleeing and the general balance, nothing seems to work as it should or at least in a way that makes sense, it makes for a much less enjoyable and realistic combat ironically ;)
omg, I have always been imagining a such mod. Not satisfied by the original combat system for a long time but you made it. good job
seems not compatible with the new missiles added in 0.96
Hi, have the same behavior, redacted drones flee half of time, looks like range between fleets too high and whey turn into flee mod, some times closest drones agro and distant ones flee
And i have some problem with ship behavior too, some ships(on my side 2 missile destroyers with caution command) run directly into enemies ignoring 8k range gun and escort command, and start fight around 1.5k range until die, around 70% times its happen, some times whey realize what whey not brawlers, but its so rare
Plus, some ballistic try shoot at max range but projectile despawn before reach target, what lead to one sided death, in energy(especially beam) weapon i cant see same behavior
So i can say ballistic(cant say all or some modded) can behave strange(ignoring real range or cant shoot at real range)
UPD: Ballistic hit on shelds is strange, ether they cant do anything(cant overload with 5small/2 large)(most of time), or they totaly destroy enemy in 2 hits(then again, energy/missile work fine on all ranges as intended and even better)
For testing, where find range modifiers? want cut it by half and see how it works
I'm having mostly the same issues, i'll list them for ease of reference:
1. Ships run head on into the enemy, despite having a hold position command waaay behind.
2. Drones flee regularly
3. Ballistics can't be fired manually.
Mod Version 1.25.2
Game Version 0.96.a
Another thing that bothers me about ballistic weapons is that they have such a limited range. In open space, where we have no drag and no gravity the projectiles should go on until they hit something with the same energy they had when they were fired.
Lasers on the other hand have a focus point where they are most effective, so it makes sense for them to have lower range than the ballistic weapons. Plus if we add balancing into consideration, projectiles have a travel time, while lasers hit instantly.
Those are my thoughts on the mod, good work Liral!
Hi, have the same behavior, redacted drones flee half of time, looks like range between fleets too high and whey turn into flee mod, some times closest drones agro and distant ones flee
And i have some problem with ship behavior too, some ships(on my side 2 missile destroyers with caution command) run directly into enemies ignoring 8k range gun and escort command, and start fight around 1.5k range until die, around 70% times its happen, some times whey realize what whey not brawlers, but its so rare
Did you tell the ships to hold position well clear of the enemy fleet?
QuotePlus, some ballistic try shoot at max range but projectile despawn before reach target, what lead to one sided death, in energy(especially beam) weapon i cant see same behavior
So i can say ballistic(cant say all or some modded) can behave strange(ignoring real range or cant shoot at real range)
Uh-oh. How can you reproduce this behavior?
QuoteUPD: Ballistic hit on shelds is strange, ether they cant do anything(cant overload with 5small/2 large)(most of time), or they totaly destroy enemy in 2 hits(then again, energy/missile work fine on all ranges as intended and even better)
Again, uh-oh. How can you reproduce this behavior?
QuoteFor testing, where find range modifiers? want cut it by half and see how it works
data/config/WeaponSpecs.json
2. I hope my update fixes the drone retreat.
Is Arma Armatura v2.2.4 compatible with last version of Realistic Combat?
Playing more with commands, rally and defend work almost fine, but some times AI choose target and pursuit far away from point, more happens with escort ships, seems like AI lock onto killing weak target, no so critical if extensively micromanage field
Found it some mods strange interaction, need cherry picking guns and test, like drones from celestial mount ships, they have vanila range 400 but RC make them range 0 somehow(actual beams, not drone range), so they do 0 damage actually, now i see about 4-5 kinetic guns what really despawn before 4.1k range, so it all about testing in simulator, and i have Hivers frag beam what ignor dissipation and just melt ships 8.8k range away
And too damage, now i understand how tag get upside down, expl is good universal type, frag is best vs shields/low armor, and i dont know why ever use kinetic type, its has low shield/hull damage and high pen dont really help with high armor, easy grind it down with expl. And AI make some stupid move with all that range, like steady use max range off guns but most beams do 0 damage at what range, and AI cant really shield against damage at range more when 3-4k, just eat what missiles with hull, and some shotgun like cannons is useless with what range, they not intended to fire more then 500u away but AI cant understand it
So it min range modifier? Does it in % of Basic range?
0.96 with RC 1.27.1 still run away, but i see some pattern, they flee from small to big, first engage all small drone flee and biggest ones stay, when they repeat it, until smallest/<45cr damaged decide to flee continuously until explode
Can do more testing/observation.
Great mod btw
Is Arma Armatura v2.2.4 compatible with last version of Realistic Combat?
Is there a way to slow down weapon's fire rate? all of them seem to have crazy fast fire rate.
Game crashes at the begining of combat with armaa armatura wingcom hull mods.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO - Cleaning up music with id [Exigency(3.0Remix).ogg]
2268123 [Thread-10] INFO sound.oo0OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO - Creating streaming player for music with id [TimeSensitive.ogg]
2268126 [Thread-10] INFO sound.H - Playing music with id [TimeSensitive.ogg]
2268292 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at RealisticCombat.com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.skills.EnergyWeaponTraining$Level1.apply(EnergyWeaponTraining.java:62)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CharacterStats.applyPersonalToStats(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CharacterStats.applyPersonalToShip(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.setCaptain(Unknown Source)
at data.hullmods.armaa_wingCommander.assignPilotToFighters(armaa_wingCommander.java:748)
at data.hullmods.armaa_wingCommander.applyEffectsToFighterSpawnedByShip(armaa_wingCommander.java:708)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.ship.A.ooOO.while(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.ship.A.ooOO.%u04CF0000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.ship.A.ooOO.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:750)
Hello! Really appreciate and enjoy the mod, but I would like to ask...
Does it support Starship Legends yet? When searching the thread I found some mention that integration was being planned many months ago, but haven't seen any updates on it since then.
Thank you for your time!
Hello! Really appreciate and enjoy the mod, but I would like to ask...
Does it support Starship Legends yet? When searching the thread I found some mention that integration was being planned many months ago, but haven't seen any updates on it since then.
Thank you for your time!
Update: Realistic Combat supports Starship Legends and has for many updates. The author of Starship Legends told me, and no cooperation with the Detailed Combat Results mod author is needed.
Update: Realistic Combat supports Starship Legends and has for many updates. The author of Starship Legends told me, and no cooperation with the Detailed Combat Results mod author is needed.
Appreciate the clarification, and thank you for making this amazing mod! ;D
I think I'm the only one having this error but each time I try to launch the game with this mod, it says;
Fatal: DIRECTORY: G\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\RealisticCombat
(data\shipsystems\._realistic_combat_burndrive.system)
A JSONObject text must begin with '{' at 1 [character 2 line 1]
Check starsector.log for info
Awwwwwww, thank you! I'd love to hear what you think in more detail.
I have the latest version of the mod since I only got starsector a few days ago
I've been playing for a while now, and the mod is great. Vanilla combat always felt too restricting to me due to the short ranges of most weapons - I almost always ended up switching to fighters/missiles so I could fight from a greater range. It never made sense to me that bullets in vanilla just disappeared after traveling just a short distance. Realistic combat fixes that, making all weapon types viable and combat with them more satisfying.
I have noticed a few issues however, namely with certain weapons. The vulcan PD cannon refuses to fire in auto mode at enemy missiles, which is a shame since it was one of my favorite PD guns in vanilla (Caveat: This problem came up when I was testing loadouts in simulation. I didn't test it in an actual battle). The ion cannon has this strange quirk where if multiple are mounted on a single ship and are fired manually, the projectiles from all of them come out in a stream from only one of the guns while the rest don't fire (This can be replicated in the tutorial that gives you a hammerhead with multiple ion cannons). They behave normally in auto mode, however, so this isn't as big a deal. Realistic Combat is the only combat affecting mod I have installed, and I don't have any mods that add extra ships or guns, so I'm fairly certain these issues arise from it.
Next, my bombers occasionally get bugged in combat and fire their bombs/missiles from long range right after leaving the carrier, instead of closing into their targets and firing at close range as they usually do. Naturally this leads to their bombs either missing or getting shot down. I'm not sure if this is an issue with the mod or is a game mechanic I'm not aware of yet.
Finally, I suggest allowing more leeway to fire with bullet weapons like the assault chaingun. Right now they refuse to fire in manual mode unless you're both locked onto a target and have it lined up exactly. This is even a worse problem if either you or your target is a fast/maneuverable ship. Oddly enough this isn't a problem in auto mode, where they fire just fine even if not locked or slightly off target.
That's all I have for now, if anything else comes up I'll let you know!
Thanks! I'm glad to hear what you think. User feedback helps me fix bugs and improve or even add features.
I've been thinking of releasing some of the features of Realistic Combat separately.
Edit: Realistic Combat is almost fully toggle-able in Toggles.json. Only skills and hullmods are not, and only because of how the game works. To toggle them off respectively, delete or rename the replace field from mod_info.json and hull_mods.csv from data/hullmods.
I've been thinking of releasing some of the features of Realistic Combat separately.
Edit: Realistic Combat is almost fully toggle-able in Toggles.json. Only skills and hullmods are not, and only because of how the game works. To toggle them off respectively, delete or rename the replace field from mod_info.json and hull_mods.csv from data/hullmods.
I want this really bad so I can have some of the features like maybe how cells work in realistic and still have faction mods. Or maybe you could focus on releasing balance patches for faction mods that can be stacked together, idk. Cuz I love this mod, but I had to drop it cuz many factions is important to me.
Hotfix 1.28.2 is out! Fixed weapons not penetrating armor and therefore dealing far too little damage. Beware that high fire-rate weapons shred ships, and high alpha-damage weapons pop them: keep your shield up, armor angled, and point defense dense. Fixed low CR retreat messages appearing for enemies instead of for allies.Liral? Is the RealisticCombat.jar file (as of v1.28.1 and v1.28.2) intended to be inflated in size from ~205 kilobytes to >12 megabytes?
Hotfix 1.28.2 is out! Fixed weapons not penetrating armor and therefore dealing far too little damage. Beware that high fire-rate weapons shred ships, and high alpha-damage weapons pop them: keep your shield up, armor angled, and point defense dense. Fixed low CR retreat messages appearing for enemies instead of for allies.Liral? Is the RealisticCombat.jar file (as of v1.28.1 and v1.28.2) intended to be inflated in size from ~205 kilobytes to >12 megabytes?
Looking inside said .jar file, there is a LOT of additional compiled .class files compared to v1.28, most of which seem to be from the base game.
Tried using this mod with ScalarTech for a bit and noticed two things.
- The Stitch Beamlance becomes hilariously broken when this mod is enabled. After noticing this in campaign I played the Forlorn Hope mission with two Stitch turrets and an otherwise unremarkable loadout, set my Paragon to autopilot, and watched it absolutely curbstomp the enemies in the mission. It's actually really funny watching this thing kill multiple frigates in one burst before anything else gets close enough to credibly threaten it.
- The Tear torpedo keeps often ends up orbiting enemy ships without getting any closer to hitting them.
The latest version mostly seems to be working fine, though I've only fought in small scale battles so far. I'm especially pleased with the vulcan pd - they work great now, and I immediately switched out all my machine guns for them. The ion cannons are still rather quirky and tend to stutter fire in manual mode (replicable in the second tutorial), but I never use them in manual mode so this isn't an issue.
Hi, love your mod.
In the latest release, I'm getting an obscene amount of notifications during allied fights. Every time one of an allied ship is ready to retreat, it is just a literal wall of "ISS Whocares: xx% combat power, retreat now!" to the point that the text overlaps into a ginormous blur that blocks the entire screen of battle until the idiot finally dies. I'm talking upwards of 50 or more of various iterations of the same message per ship.
I've got a lot of mods (~20) running, but none related to combat chatter, and the only other mod that touches fight/flight behavior is Borgrel's Automated Commands and hasn't been updated since before I went from RC 1.26 to the latest 1.29, and I don't have any of the Automated Command hullmods on any of my ships yet.
Wish I could attach a screenshot, but FPS drops so low when the wall of combat messages start hitting that pushing printscreen sends me into a screenflicker that never recovers and I need to crash the game.
Out of curiosity, is there a list of faction mods that either work well or have been made to work well with this mod? While I'm playing mostly vanilla at the moment, it'd be nice to know there are faction mods out there that can be added without worrying about balance issues around new weapons or ships.
Are drone tenders supposed to be very powerful? A handful are capable of defeating pirate fleets and the domain drones.
When used en masse they can screen just about everything.
Another thing I noticed, the AI of the drones guarding salvage / stations, always full retreats in battle immediately. This is very annoying they should not retreat, as I must re-engage over and over
I have encountered a crash when using the wingcom suite hullmode from arma armature mod. Here is the crash log;
334440 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at RealisticCombat.com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.skills.BallisticWeaponTraini ng$Level1.apply(BallisticWeaponTraining.java:66)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CharacterStats.applyPersonalToStats(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CharacterStats.applyPersonalToShip(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.setCaptain(Unknown Source)
at data.hullmods.armaa_wingCommander.assignPilotToFighters(armaa_wingCommander.java:748)
at data.hullmods.armaa_wingCommander.applyEffectsToFighterSpawnedByShip(armaa_wingCommander.java:708)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.ship.A.ooOO.while(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.ship.A.ooOO.?O0000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.ship.A.ooOO.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
The crash still happens after I removed replace skill lines in the mod_info,jaon
The crash will go way if I disable the realistic combat mod. So there must be something conflicting in these two....
any alternate download links?
Do you have far more deployment points than the drones do?
any alternate download links?
Is the download link down?
Yes.
I'm having the same problem, but only after an initial battle which plays out as usual. If, however, a drone or two retreats rather than being destroyed (perhaps including an officer?), then I must re-engage. Upon re-engagement I vastly outnumber the drones who immediately fall back. This repeats; as a result, they become unbeatable.
There is one gripe I have with the mod...gauss cannons have a range of 4k, in line with other large ballistic weapons, but have a far slower firing rate. However, in vanilla, gauss cannons are a long range weapon, able to outrange even beam weapons, and their slow firing rate is intended to compensate for this.
I guess it's more of a realism issue than anything else...in sci-fi gauss/railgun weapons are known for their extreme range beyond that of other kinetic weapons, and in space such projectiles should keep traveling indefinitely until they hit something (Be it their target or anything else).
"Maximum muzzle velocity of weapon and projectile specs after":"",
"modifying them. Muzzle velocities up to the":"",
"projectileSpeedMaximum will be smoothly spread up to":"",
"near this number, with diminishing returns thereafter.":"",
"muzzleVelocityMaximum":5000,
It does appear that upon many retreat/engages the drones eventually blow up from lack of CR. Still not optimal but not as terrible as eternally looping.
there seems to be a bug between realistic combat and scalartech solutions. specifically the stitch beam lance instantly oneshotting almost every single ship in the game. according the scalartech dev this is prolly a problem with realistic combat. hope you're able to fix it!
I want to fix this problem by changing the following number:Codewhich once was 10,000. Modded weapons with long range gained extreme range. Would you mind trying 10,000 again and telling me how it goes?"Maximum muzzle velocity of weapon and projectile specs after":"",
"modifying them. Muzzle velocities up to the":"",
"projectileSpeedMaximum will be smoothly spread up to":"",
"near this number, with diminishing returns thereafter.":"",
"muzzleVelocityMaximum":5000,
Hi,
I am having an issue where even with only realistic combat enabled, most weapons that are not missiles or beams have their reload bar get stuck at some point in the reload cycle, resulting in the weapon not being able to be fired manually. When turning on autopilot and/or autofiring, this issue seems to subside however, but is still pretty gamebreaking in my opinion.
**Steps to Reproduce**
I dont know, I installed about eighty mods, some of them 0.95.1 mods and started playing, noticed this issue, disabled all mods except Realistic combat and it still occurs.
Id really like to have a better way to reproduce this for you, but i dont have any clue.
you can get in contact with me, probably best via discord. I am named the same here as i am on the inofficial starsector discord.
I've given it a shot, and it increased the range of all projectile weapons to 7-9k, even weapons described as intended for close range such as the antimatter blaster. This new range is comparable to that of missiles (Which have a range of about 9-10k), which doesn't make all that much sense unfortunately. It would be better if there was a way to give only specific weapons such as the gauss cannon longer range, as in vanilla there's a wide disparity between the ranges of projectile weapons (gauss cannon (1.2k range) has 50% longer range than standard autocannons (800 range) and 200% more range than machine guns (450 range)) whereas in the mod all of their ranges are relatively similar (About 3-4k). It would make the mod much better if projectile weapons had ranges proportional to their vanilla versions.
I skimmed over the Field manual, however this must have not been that obvious, because i seem to have missed all the signs of it. You could maybe add a short tutorial where this is explained, similar to the way the game gives you a tutorial.
I've changed the muzzle velocity modification to preserve the disparity.
You're right. The field manual only implies you must choose a target before firing. Did you see a pop-up text saying "R to select target" when trying to fire without one selected?
When will this change be implemented? Just so I can know when to start my next run. :D
Tried to add Realistic Combat to my ongoing campaign mid-save, toggles set to only use "damageReducesCR":true (very neat feature, could perhaps be released separately?)
The game crashes when i try to switch between ships in campaign, but works flawlessly in missions.
Log says it has to do with some skills, here's how it ends:
258338 [Thread-3] INFO ruthless_sector.ModPlugin - Enemy strength: 763.3827514648438
258338 [Thread-3] INFO ruthless_sector.ModPlugin - Reload Penalty Adjustment: 0.20000000298023224 + 0.2
258690 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Too late for intro message: 9.0
263535 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship DMS Enyalius, isEnemy 0
263535 [Thread-3] INFO org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin - Adding ship Aeon Raptor, isEnemy 0
267035 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at RealisticCombat.com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.skills.EnergyWeaponTraining$Level1.apply(EnergyWeaponTraining.java:41)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CharacterStats.applyPersonalToStats(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CharacterStats.applyPersonalToShip(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.setCaptain(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.<init>(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.oooo.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.oooo.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.oooo.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.B.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.B._.??O000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.B._.actionTaken(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.B._.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.n.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.?00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.processInput(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.n.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.thissuper.processInput(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.interfacenew.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.interfacenew.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.thissuper.processInput(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.interfacenew.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.interfacenew.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.B._.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.thissuper.processInput(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.interfacenew.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.interfacenew.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.B.super.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.thissuper.processInput(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.interfacenew.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.interfacenew.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.thissuper.processInput(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
Hotfix 1.29.3 is out! Changed projectile weapon range modification to preserve weapon range disparity. Fixed a null-pointer involving skills.
On cursory inspection weapon range values seem okay (Didn't get a chance to check out the gauss cannon yet), but there's a different problem that came with the update.
https://imgur.com/a/sa45ypU (See the top right corner)
Whenever in combat and you're not locked onto a target but attempt to fire this white lock symbol appears on the screen and follows your mouse around at the same distance. While it disappears if you're locked on a target, if you're unlocked it persists throughout combat even after restarting the game. This is an unwelcome change that I hope is removed with the next hotfix, as personally I felt the warning message from the previous version was sufficient.
On cursory inspection weapon range values seem okay (Didn't get a chance to check out the gauss cannon yet), but there's a different problem that came with the update.
https://imgur.com/a/sa45ypU (See the top right corner)
Whenever in combat and you're not locked onto a target but attempt to fire this white lock symbol appears on the screen and follows your mouse around at the same distance. While it disappears if you're locked on a target, if you're unlocked it persists throughout combat even after restarting the game. This is an unwelcome change that I hope is removed with the next hotfix, as personally I felt the warning message from the previous version was sufficient.
Yeah, that lock needs to disappear after a while, but additional info to select a target and click the circle needs to be there, id say this lock symbol is a acceptable quick fix.
I haven't been able to find something recent about it with a search in this thread, so I'll post this bug:
If you try to fire manually right after switching weapons (or keep trying as you do), projectile weapons will fire for a second even without a lock, and will fire at extremely high rates for just one burst.
For example, trying to fire without lock with an Arbalest, switching to a Heavy Blaster and suddenly the Heavy Blaster not only fires without lock but fires like a machine gun for a second, atomizing a target. Tested on 1.29.4 on fresh install with just MagicLib/LazyLib installed.
That behavior is unintended; I am concerned and want to know exactly what the problem is. I understand the reproduction steps to be:
1. Select a target or not; the result is the same.
2. Select a group of non-missile projectile weapons.
3. Press and hold the fire button.
4. Switch to another group of non-missile projectile weapons.
Result: rapid fire of the second group of weapons.
Hotfix 1.29.5 is out! Ensured gun-locking would work if you switched to a weapon group containing non-missile projectile weapons.
I don't really understand how to disable the new damage system. I don't really like it and I would like to leave only the increase in the range of guns, as well as the behavior of missilesOpen up 'Toggles.json' in NotePad (or equivalent) and change "replaceDamageModel":true, to "replaceDamageModel":false,
I don't really understand how to disable the new damage system. I don't really like it and I would like to leave only the increase in the range of guns, as well as the behavior of missiles
Open up 'Toggles.json' in NotePad (or equivalent) and change "replaceDamageModel":true, to "replaceDamageModel":false,
Having said that, weapons will be hilariously OP as a result (with ridiculous range and/or DPS) unless you also change "modifyWeaponSpecs":true to "modifyWeaponSpecs":false
In which case, AFAIK there is NOT any way to modify weapon range w/o also keeping the damage increase(s), short of tinkering in WeaponSpecs.json and/or DamageModel.json instead.
I figured I should write about my opinion on the damage model.
I love everything about it so far. I love the multiple layers and penetration mechanics, I love the citadel and how truly high power weapons can punch to the heart of a ship for those ouch moments, I love how malfunctions are more prevalent and I love how the angles mechanic gives value to a hull's shape, allowing ships with agressive shapes to truly shine in an assault.
My only suggestion would be in the form of an additional feature. I love multiple ways of damaging a ship, and a realistic way of adding one (and that has precedent in other mods) is through weapons being destroyed and damaging the ship. Prv Starworks has an example of a weapon that causes weapons hit on a target to trigger damage based the weapon type, and TADA/Torchships has an example of a missile weapon that can detonate and become unusable when hit (though both rely on scripts specific to the firing weapon's projectile or the weapon being hit itself).
As examples, missile weapons with ammo left could have a chance of exploding and dealing high damage, energy weapons could spawn a fire dealing damage over time (similar to that REDACTED weapon), ballistic weapons could explode but with much less damage than missiles... Whether different types of damage have different likelihoods of causing these effects (i.e explosive damage being better at it than kinetic), or whether the likelihood of these events is also tied to the type of weapon being hit (i.e ballistic weapons less vulnerable than energy weapons), there's a lot of potential to create more modularity in ship damage and further definition of ships' and weapons' strengths - at least that's what I believe.
That's my selfish pipe-dream suggestion for some far future. I once tried to manually implement code from TADA's Hammer-rack explosion (minus spawning randomly firing missiles) to other weapons and I might actually try again, but that's fairly limited - and I'm bad at modding.
One more, unrelated thing: Whenever I look at your manual, it brings back fond memories of reading the player-made PDF manual for PR:BF2 - another fan-made realism mod for another, old game where modders realized that they had changed so much, that a good old game manual was needed to teach players how everything works.
Rock on 8)
That feature is already in the game, though undocumented. All projectile weapons inflict a permanent critical malfunction upon breaching the citadel.
I know about the criticals to the citadel (you even posted about them some time ago when explaining armor to someone), but I was thinking about something more specific to the weapons (i.e ammo explosion).
Are you sure about the citadel-caused malfunctions being permanent however? Malfunctions other than those caused by very low CR always seem to get repaired for me.
Hotfix 1.29.6 is out! Removed an unreported null-pointer exception arising upon switching from one ship to another in campaign with skills on on your character.
@Lycaon is correct, @Liral; the uploaded version IS still 1.29.5, rather than 1.29.6, at the time of this reply post.Hotfix 1.29.6 is out! Removed an unreported null-pointer exception arising upon switching from one ship to another in campaign with skills on on your character.
Has it been uploaded? The version number on the current download still says 1.29.5.
@Lycaon is correct, @Liral; the uploaded version IS still 1.29.5, rather than 1.29.6, at the time of this reply post.Hotfix 1.29.6 is out! Removed an unreported null-pointer exception arising upon switching from one ship to another in campaign with skills on on your character.
Has it been uploaded? The version number on the current download still says 1.29.5.
Same 'Date modified' timestamp(s) and CRC32 checksum values for the files in the RealisiticCombat.7z archive.
Patch 1.30.0 is out! Fixed armor penetration, damage, and shield damage not depending on damage type and set ship vertical evasion distance to a factor, configurable and default 0.125, of the lesser of width and length.
I recommend a thorough readjustment and retesting of the damage type values, as it appears this fix patch has upended the previous damage system that, while flawed as pointed out by Helldiver, seemed reasonably balanced in combat.
I agree that some changes are probably in order, but thankfully the mod provides us with the many levers needed in its well furnished settings files so there's that for us end-users to work our preferences in.
I think that there's a limit to what the mod can completely balance/fix without directly changing vanilla weapons on a case-by-case basis. I'm personally fine with that because we can change those ourselves easily, but perhaps that is a daunting task for most players.
There is a bug where point defense guns do not shoot at fighters and missiles. They just stare at them while wiggling back and forth. It almost always happens for missiles and sometimes for fighters.
This is likely due to weapons not having enough degrees of control over their rotation.
Minimum rotation unit fix:
If the number representing a weapons rotation only goes from 0 - 360, I would change it to 0 - 3600.
This is as best as i can explain the bug. I'm very surprised you didn't catch this while doing your own testing.
Huh, I wonder if the minimum rotation unit idea might be true. I know that my code does not restrict non-player weapons from firing. I wonder what steps would replicate the issue.I have noticed that remnant and domain drones will actively retreat now. Which is really cool until it hard locks you out of salvaging any domain probe/ship/mothership because you have to kill all of the drones to salvage, and they will continually retreat from the combat space before you can get over to them.Yes, I have coded ships to retreat when damaged enough, causing the problem you describe with the [REDACTED] ships. I wonder how best to solve this issue and can't immediately think of a solution beyond the duck-tape of prohibiting [REDACTED] retreats entirely.
This forces you to repeatedly re-engage the automated defenses and hope that you have enough ships with enough CR to force an engine crit malfunction on the drones so you can finally cross the distance quickly enough to finish off the wounded drone before it retreats. (it normally just spins around and immediately exits)
I am not sure if their AI commanders are set to not reckless or if there is a mod conflict. I don't have any other mods that effect combat AI, so I am pretty sure its realistic combat. I have been using the command console mod to kill the spare drone or two, but without that the cost in CR to clear a single drone is incredibly prohibitive.
Scratch that, I am noticing that all pirates will attempt retreat when sufficiently wounded, including ones with officers (I presume that most are reckless)
please can you add an option to remove drones from retreating it is extremely tedious to deal with
please can you add an option to remove drones from retreating it is extremely tedious to deal withThere is a bug where point defense guns do not shoot at fighters and missiles. They just stare at them while wiggling back and forth. It almost always happens for missiles and sometimes for fighters.
This is likely due to weapons not having enough degrees of control over their rotation.
Minimum rotation unit fix:
If the number representing a weapons rotation only goes from 0 - 360, I would change it to 0 - 3600.
This is as best as i can explain the bug. I'm very surprised you didn't catch this while doing your own testing.
Huh, I wonder if the minimum rotation unit idea might be true. I know that my code does not restrict non-player weapons from firing. I wonder what steps would replicate the issue.I have noticed that remnant and domain drones will actively retreat now. Which is really cool until it hard locks you out of salvaging any domain probe/ship/mothership because you have to kill all of the drones to salvage, and they will continually retreat from the combat space before you can get over to them.Yes, I have coded ships to retreat when damaged enough, causing the problem you describe with the [REDACTED] ships. I wonder how best to solve this issue and can't immediately think of a solution beyond the duck-tape of prohibiting [REDACTED] retreats entirely.
This forces you to repeatedly re-engage the automated defenses and hope that you have enough ships with enough CR to force an engine crit malfunction on the drones so you can finally cross the distance quickly enough to finish off the wounded drone before it retreats. (it normally just spins around and immediately exits)
I am not sure if their AI commanders are set to not reckless or if there is a mod conflict. I don't have any other mods that effect combat AI, so I am pretty sure its realistic combat. I have been using the command console mod to kill the spare drone or two, but without that the cost in CR to clear a single drone is incredibly prohibitive.
Scratch that, I am noticing that all pirates will attempt retreat when sufficiently wounded, including ones with officers (I presume that most are reckless)
please can you add an option to remove drones from retreating it is extremely tedious to deal with
Version 1.31.0 is out! Fixed the damage model and added a multiplier for projectile weapon damage in data/config/WeaponSpecs.json. Damage seems balanced to me, but please post any suggestions you have about the numbers.
Trying to isolate the settings for damage leads to the DamageModel.json and WeaponSpecs.json files. I'll list the relevant values here and attempt to determine how they're affecting the damage results. As I'm not the mod author and have a limited understanding of how it works, take all this with a grain of salt and let me know if I'm missing anything. The main issue I'm finding with the current version is that, in the tutorials, explosive damage (Namely from the assault chaingun and harpoon missiles) deal only small amounts of damage through ship armor, and armor in general seems to be excessively resistant to all damage types (Be it explosive, kinetic, or beam). This can be easily tested in all three tutorial missions.
Oddly, this changes in large scale battles (Tested using the random battles mission), wherein ships die much more rapidly than in the tutorials, at a rate similar to vanilla. These large battles have a higher proportion of cruiser/capital ships with high damage weapons/missiles. From this I believe that while the tutorial weapons have issues dealing damage through armor, larger weapons/missiles and/or mass firepower aren't as affected.
DamageModel.json Values
"armorOvermatchFactor": 10
How many times greater the base damage of a projectile/missile/beam must be than the base thickness of a ship's armor layer (After adjusting for damage type) to penetrate it at all. The current value means the base damage must exceed the base thickness by 10x before any damage is dealt through the armor. Personally, I feel this value may be a bit too high, seeing as assault chainguns/harpoons (high explosive), arbalests/sabots (kinetic), and even tactical beams (energy) are having difficulty penetrating armor in the tutorials. However this may explain why ships die much faster in larger battles, as larger weapons with higher base damage wouldn't have an issue exceeding this number.
"compartmentDamageFactor": 0.33
Factor of projectile/missile/beam damage that becomes additional potential damage to compartments. I believe the current value means that after damage penetrates armor, only a third is actually applied to damaging compartments. It's unclear whether the damage has been reduced previously by the armor or not, but this value appears reasonable to me.
"compartmentDamageOverflowFactor": 0.1
After the compartments absorb damage, excess damage is multiplied by this value to determine actual hull damage. The current value is 0.1, meaning only 10% of the damage that exceeds compartment integrity actually damages the hull (Ship HP). This number seems a bit low to me given the damage at this point has already been reduced by the previous factors, but according to the mod most of the ship killing damage would be applied to the citadel (Which takes damage in full).
"shieldDamageFactors": Kinetic: 1.333, High Explosive: 0.667, Fragmentation: 0.125, Energy/Other: 1
These values seemed reasonable to me, though in testing I noticed shields appeared to take more damage from kinetic and less damage from high explosive than they do in vanilla. This is unusual as vanilla supposedly increases kinetic damage by 50% and reduces explosive damage by 50% against shields, while the mod only increases/decreases each by 33%, so kinetic damage taken by shields using the mod should be less than in vanilla, and explosive damage more. Of course this isn't accounting for whether base weapon damage has been increased/decreased by the mod, in addition to other factors, so I can't make much of a conclusion here.
"armorThicknessFactors": Kinetic: 0.667, High Explosive: 1.333, Fragmentation: 8, Energy/Other: 1
Unlike shieldDamageFactors, this isn't a plain damage multiplier. Instead it seems that armor has 67% resistance to Kinetic damage, 133% resistance to High Explosive Damage, and 800% resistance against Fragmentation damage. These values were odd to me, given that in vanilla high explosive does 50% more damage to armor and kinetic damage 50% less, but in the mod these numbers are reversed. I'm assuming the mod works off the idea that armor should be more resistant to high explosive damage than kinetic damage. Otherwise they seem reasonable and probably aren't contributing to the above problems.
"damageFactors": Kinetic: 0.5, High Explosive: 1.5, Fragmentation: 2, Energy/Other: 1
Damage multiple of each damage type against presumably the ship's compartments/citadel/hull. Again, no issues with the numbers here.
WeaponSpecs.json Values
Many of the values here relate to weapon speed/range/spread and so can be ignored, though I'm supportive of an option that allows using the vanilla damage system while retaining the mod's changes to weapon ranges/missile behavior.
"damageFactor": 2
This supposedly multiples weapon damage by 2 (It's unclear whether it applies only to projectiles or all types of damage) and was added with the latest patch. If the values from DamageModel.json above were sufficiently modified this factor may not be needed.
"intensityFactors": directedEnergyMunition: 0.1, burst: 5, continuous: 6.
These values relate to energy weapons, specifically beams. I haven't used DEM's ingame, but I'm curious as to why they have such a low intensity factor compared to burst/continuous beams.
You don't have to go to all this trouble--I'm on top of it! That said, I'm glad you're so interested as to investigate the settings, which I put for just this purpose. Yes, small-damage weapons will struggle against thick armor, but high-damage weapons will penetrate and destroy ships. I am dismayed to see my documentation did not make the working of these numbers obvious to you! I will extend the documentation to help.
Penetrate it at all angles! "angles" on its own was not an empty field.
The mod does increase all projectile damage by two. See WeaponSpecs.json.
It's not about resistance but effective thickness, which must be penetrated to deal substantial damage.
Toggles.json has just that toggle.
That makes sense, though I'm still curious as to why explosive damage is less effective than kinetic damage against armor according to the values. In many games (And vanilla Starsector itself) high explosive damage is intended to deal increased damage to armor, with the logic that the blast wave better penetrates armor to deal damage to the internals. On the other hand, plain kinetic damage should have issues penetrating armor unless highly specialized (Like sabot rounds in real life). From a gameplay perspective, this means that high explosive damage is less effective than kinetic against both armor and shields, which seems counterintuitive.
Considering that kinetic weapons are dedicated to that damage type, it makes sense that that they fire specialized rounds. Kinetic energy is more difficult to stop with even modern armor. Chemical/explosive energy, even when made into an anti-armor tool, is more easily defeated by composite protection. Kinetic rounds are thus generally better at penetrating the hardest targets, but deal less post-penetration damage. Explosive anti-armor rounds are inferior at dealing with the hardest targets, but cause lethal damage to anything they can actually penetrate. Only exception is very heavy explosive ordnance (i.e large anti-ship or air-to-ground missiles, bombs) which just obliterate part or all of the target
RC currently appears to follow these points, which feels sensical. Some vanilla weapons are left to the wayside in the face of realistic armor/damage mechanics, but that's expected - I faced similar issues when giving missiles realistic speeds and having to rework vanilla PD weapons in my own old mod.
On the subject of said mod I said I'd post when done updating it, I think I'll write up an explanation of how I've reworked certain weapons and my reasonings.
I wonder why you don't like it. Would you mind telling me what you don't like?
HE & Energy projectile damage seems very extreme. Everything you put on your ship should be slow heavy punches. 100 damage or 200 damage or 400 damage projectiles seem to do next to nothing versus even durable frigates. Nothing in the small HE ballistic / small energy projectile class will deal more than a bee sting to a frigate, except the antimatter blaster. In the medium class, bring a heavy blaster, a heavy mauler, or don't bother. And same with large class, bring a hellbore, a mjolnir, gigacannon, plasma cannon, or you're just wasting flux.
Energy beam damage is the most deadly, the most variable, and only really works fighting up ship classes. If you put beams on a capital ship and try to take on a cruiser, the enemy can stay far enough away to allow the beam to diffract to nothingness. And this pairing works on pretty much every class size difference; if it can out-speed you, you can't get your beams close enough to do anything. Reverse this, and you can wreck the enemy. Fly a sunder with a HIL into an onslaught's butt, open fire, and it will explode in less than a minute. Create a fleet of carriers slotted with wasps, and watch as the enemy dies off in seconds unless they've got a large amount of PD cruisers/capitals. Because of this, energy beam also works great as a dual-purpose PD / "keep the f away from me" deterrent. Most all small beams have excellent/perfect tracking and fast rotation, so they can instantly lock onto threats. And as missiles or strike craft get closer to the ship, the damage increases by up to 6x its stated value, meaning more durable strike craft that fragmentation projectiles couldn't take out will die off from beam damage when they hang around your ship for an extended period of time. Harassers will also hate this, the closer you fly in to try and fire off missiles from point blank range and minimize the time the target's PD has to react, the worse you're getting hit with beam damage, and the quicker the PD beams can knock out your missile; it might take a mining laser 3 seconds to knock out a missile from 2000 sus, but maybe only 1/5 of a second to take it out from 200 sus, so you're screwed either way whether you fire from max range or try to suicide bomb.
Missiles rule, then run away or die a fool. If you aren't going to try for a carrier beam swarm, the best fighting you can do is a mix of ships that will kinetic hard flux and distract the enemy, and then launch nuclear weapons into the enemy once it cannot block or destroy the wave of hammerheads / atroposes, or that singular reaper that will end its life. Of course, missiles aren't infinite, so you can pilot your kite into your bombing run to destroy that cruiser, then run for your life to the edge of the map and wait for the next battle.
Carrier swarm dominates. 75% wasps to deal damage, 15% claws or thunders to short out the enemy's weapons and engines, maybe a broadsword wing or 2 to chew up the enemy's flux in shield damage and divert their PD away from the wasps and claws and onto decoy flares, and a cobra or dagger/trident or 2 to take out cruisers and capitals faster than the wasps. Have your carriers stay at extreme range, and watch as enemy frigates blow up as soon as the engagement starts, and heavier ships curse you staying out of their range while your bombers slam them with missiles.
As much as would like to love the mod, it seems that balance is completely off. From some few hours of playing i noticed that shields were beyond useless because for some reason any source of kinetic damage just insta pops them, and shield is the only defence of high tech shields, so they are beyond useless. And armor seems to be way too good, on somethung not made of paper it basically just laughs at the face of anything short of reaper or hellbore. And enemy ai doesnt really know what its doing, it just eats kinetic damage, gets overfluxes and dies horribly. The fact that vanila layouts arent the best in the mod doesnt help it.
guys how to install realistic combat? pls help
Some battles lasers keep flashing all over the battlefield and do huge amounts of damage, after about a minutes all ships besides fighters become invincible, could this be because of another mod?
Ships become invincible over time. Test with a fury with a heavy blaster and ion beam vs one of the test dominator.
I have isolated this to just realistic combat, with only other mod being console commands.
The mod author hasn't logged on for over a week so it might be a while before it's fixed. For now I recommend following my guide for re-enabling vanilla damage and skills, which I'll post again here:
Someone really needs to make a fork of this mod
Every time i update instead of fixes the balance and bugs just gets worse
Hi guys,
I am getting the same issue people had about a year ago.
Ships piloted by me do not fire non-beam weapons, period.
Kinetic and energy projectile weapons both do not work, but missiles do. I just press LMB and nothing happens.
WTF is going on? Is there a workaround to resolve this?
EDIT: I fixed it. In the Toggles.json file (in data/config), turn "threeDimensionalTargeting" from true to false. Now everything works fine.
Can somebody elaborate for me the "training" skills, such as 'missile training'. If my ship can mount all 3 types, I need to sacrifice 3 officer skills just to get that measly +10% CR bonus? Why do I need this if the Combat Endurance skill gives me 15% CR?
Or does the training skills increase CR by 10% for EVERY training skill? So my 3-type ship would net me an extra 30%?
Also, these skills can be Elited, but their elite version has no tooltip. Is this a bug? Do elite versions give anything?
Hello!
The latest update 1.31.0 seems to have corrected armor penetration issues I thought I was seeing with fragmentation damage over-penetrating more than it should.
However, I'm not sure the post-penetrative damage values are right? I ran a test with a 1600 armor ship getting pelted by hammers and it wasn't doing any meaningful damage, like maybe 30-50 damage a piece. I think inadvertently the damage model is comparing attempted damage versus the full armor value of the target ship to reduce the damage dealt; a 1500 damage hammer should do SOMETHING meaningful to a 1600 armor ship.
I mainly tested an armored-up Apogee (1200 armor) with auto-pulse laser, a locust SRM, a mining blaster, a heavy blaster, swarmer missiles, and a wing of UAF fighters that would do negligible fragmentation damage & EMP damage (their entire purpose was to keep the enemy "engaged", deplete its CR, and then short its engines to allow the apogee to get in weapons range) VS a cerebus with a light assault gun, thumper, and some vulcans. My expectation was that the Cerebus wouldn't be able to inflict any damage on the Apogee. With the apogee's 1200 armor, so a surface armor value of 80, all of the cerebus's weapons wouldn't have enough penetration to get past the surface armor, and that played out as expected.
Regarding the apogee's weapons versus the 400 armor cerebus and its 26.67 surface armor...
- I expected the locusts wouldn't deal any damage since their 200 damage * 12.5% penetration couldn't beat the surface armor of the cerebus, and that played true.
- I expected the swarmers to do somewhat minor damage to the cerebus. The 100 HE damage missiles @ 75% penetration should penetrate the surface armor, and then there should be a 100 HE * 150% ship damage = 150 hull damage to the cerebus. However I was mostly seeing 30 hull damage from missiles that hit.
- Oddest thing, it seemed like the damage projectiles did went DOWN the more the compartment armor was damaged. For lower damaging projectiles the first few hits to the front of the enemy's ship did 20-30 hull damage, and then the same projectiles started doing nothing when they hit the same spot where there was no more armor. I know there is a toggle where once the citadel's armor has been breached, that the hull damage applied is supposed to get HIGHER...is the formula perhaps accidentally reversed? Or is that right, you've destroyed everything there is to destroy on that side of the ship, you're got to start shooting up other parts of the ship to fully kill it?
I then tested the apogee versus a shepherd. The borer's mining lasers were able to penetrate the Apogee's 1200 armor. The penetration makes sense, 30 energy beam damage at point blank range should have a max of 30x6 = 180 energy damage, which is 100% penetrative. I couldn't assess whether the damage inflected was in-line with expectations since the range and thus damage multiplier changes constantly. The mining lasers were eating a few HP every second, so it seems likely.
The end result of weapon assessments
- Fragmentation of any damage value is useless for anything more than taking out missiles, light strike craft, and perhaps some civilians or high-tech frigates made out of aluminum. It that strike craft is up-armored like the mining auxiliary pods or warthogs, or it has shields, fragmentation damage isn't going to do anything. Mostly fair since fragmentation damage is cheap in flux cost, usually 0.1-0.2 flux per damage, so its singular purpose role is a fair trade-off.
- Kinetic damage is mostly useless to do anything beyond hard-fluxing shields, and as a secondary point defense role. It has almost no use in dealing permanent damage to ships; sure with 150% penetrative force most kinetic weapons WILL penetrate, but with 50% ship damage you'll be giving the enemy a death by 1 million paper cuts. Not as cheap as fragmentation damage in terms of flux cost, it is still a bargain at roughly 0.6 flux per damage for most kinetic weapon types, allowing for acceptable use in point defense. And with 133% shield damage, its main selling point is you can easily trade 1 soft flux against 2+ hard flux even to enemies with super efficient shields. Since you aren't using it for anything beyond shield hard-fluxing, and since shields don't care whether it is hit with 1,000 pebbles dealing 1 damage each or 1 boulder dealing 1,000 damage, you can use cheap low-damage weapons like machine guns to maximize weapon $ and flux cost per shield damage dealt.
- HE & Energy projectile damage seems very extreme. Everything you put on your ship should be slow heavy punches. 100 damage or 200 damage or 400 damage projectiles seem to do next to nothing versus even durable frigates. Nothing in the small HE ballistic / small energy projectile class will deal more than a bee sting to a frigate, except the antimatter blaster. In the medium class, bring a heavy blaster, a heavy mauler, or don't bother. And same with large class, bring a hellbore, a mjolnir, gigacannon, plasma cannon, or you're just wasting flux.
- Energy beam damage is the most deadly, the most variable, and only really works fighting up ship classes. If you put beams on a capital ship and try to take on a cruiser, the enemy can stay far enough away to allow the beam to diffract to nothingness. And this pairing works on pretty much every class size difference; if it can out-speed you, you can't get your beams close enough to do anything. Reverse this, and you can wreck the enemy. Fly a sunder with a HIL into an onslaught's butt, open fire, and it will explode in less than a minute. Create a fleet of carriers slotted with wasps, and watch as the enemy dies off in seconds unless they've got a large amount of PD cruisers/capitals. Because of this, energy beam also works great as a dual-purpose PD / "keep the f away from me" deterrent. Most all small beams have excellent/perfect tracking and fast rotation, so they can instantly lock onto threats. And as missiles or strike craft get closer to the ship, the damage increases by up to 6x its stated value, meaning more durable strike craft that fragmentation projectiles couldn't take out will die off from beam damage when they hang around your ship for an extended period of time. Harassers will also hate this, the closer you fly in to try and fire off missiles from point blank range and minimize the time the target's PD has to react, the worse you're getting hit with beam damage, and the quicker the PD beams can knock out your missile; it might take a mining laser 3 seconds to knock out a missile from 2000 sus, but maybe only 1/5 of a second to take it out from 200 sus, so you're screwed either way whether you fire from max range or try to suicide bomb.
- Missiles rule, then run away or die a fool. If you aren't going to try for a carrier beam swarm, the best fighting you can do is a mix of ships that will kinetic hard flux and distract the enemy, and then launch nuclear weapons into the enemy once it cannot block or destroy the wave of hammerheads / atroposes, or that singular reaper that will end its life. Of course, missiles aren't infinite, so you can pilot your kite into your bombing run to destroy that cruiser, then run for your life to the edge of the map and wait for the next battle.
Other observations
- I feel like the enemy cheats with range. My feeling was that the enemy took no issue firing at me at max weapon range without regard to reducing its range due to opponent ship size and jinking. So in a frigate versus frigate battle, they were firing machine guns and whatnot at me at ranges that were like 2x as far away as I could get my same machine guns to fire off at them. And there is no built-in mechanic in the game to say "well the projectile went through the 2D space where the ship was, but it was fired from such a far away range that in 3D space the ship probably strafed up or down to avoid it, so no damage is applied". So they just cheat by blind firing from as far away as they can with no target selected, and I'm left hamstrung by only being able to fire if a target is selected and that target is "in range (and likely to be unable to avoid the shot)" according to 3D physics.
- You're better off without shields. Seriously. With how even a single dual-machine gun's kinetic damage can hard flux you in seconds, and with how kinetic damage will likely cause no damage to your ship, having them will only cause you to A) overload and be a sitting duck, B) waste 750 flux in absorbing 1 HP of hull damage at the expense of not being able to shoot a hellbore slug that would have deal like 1000 damage to the enemy, C) make you give up your 0 flux boost that would let you avoid a hit or chase an enemy. Its only value is in blocking a stray missile or heavy damage projectile every once in a while, and in the net I'm doubtful that the occasional savings of blocking a missile or heavy slug will pay for the extra 100% more armor that a low-tech ship without shields would provide versus an equivalent high-tech ship relying heavily on shields. This is sort of another area where the enemy cheats; they seem to have perfect precognition in knowing which projectiles will not cause ship damage and knowing which ones will, and in so keeping their shields off while broadswords rain machine gun bullets at them and only flickering their omni-directional shield in the exact 1 degree arc for the exact 1/100th of a second before a reaper would have hit them. I can imagine this playing out on the bridge ala Star Trek: "Number 2, in exactly 3 microseconds raise shields at precisely 215.33781 degrees portside and keep them raised for exactly 2 microseconds, then immediately raise shields at precisely 174.332 degrees starboard and keep them raised for exactly 3 microseconds...." And I thought an Alpha Core was able to process things fast, woo boy the generic AI ship captain of the enemy has got nothing on them!
- Carrier swarm dominates. 75% wasps to deal damage, 15% claws or thunders to short out the enemy's weapons and engines, maybe a broadsword wing or 2 to chew up the enemy's flux in shield damage and divert their PD away from the wasps and claws and onto decoy flares, and a cobra or dagger/trident or 2 to take out cruisers and capitals faster than the wasps. Have your carriers stay at extreme range, and watch as enemy frigates blow up as soon as the engagement starts, and heavier ships curse you staying out of their range while your bombers slam them with missiles. But again enemy cheats, somehow an onslaught's thermal pulse cannon can shoot from 3x the range at a destroyer while the destroyer's ion pulse cannon isn't in range enough to fire at the onslaught...despite the weapon range being the same...despite the onslaught being 3x the size of the destroyer and an easier mark to hit...cheating bastards!
A lot to like about the mod, but something still feels wrong. It's like the update made it worse for the "whoever has the most HE heavy duty missiles, wins" mentality. Most of the battles I'm fighting without strike craft, things play put the same: ships fire their missiles and people die, and then whoever is left shoots spitballs at each other until PPT exhaustion / CR reduction causes retreat and they can be killed off in auto-resolve.
And I'm not even sure that's working as I'd expect; with the increase in weapon ranges, have you also decreased the distance from an enemy a ship needs to be before it is considered engaged and subject to PPT loss? Example a ship outfitted with IR pulse lasers in vanilla has a range of 500 su, an enemy might only be considered engaged and subject to PPT loss if was within maybe 1000 su of that ship and subject to being fired upon. But adjusted by your mod, IR pulse lasers have a range of 5000 su, so a ship can be under fire and engaged from a range much further away than vanilla. In simulations I saw frigates circling around my slow moving cruiser firing at me, but never exhausting PPT after 10+ minutes of battle. I'm guessing the old ranges apply, if they are further away than a gauss cannon could have fired (1200 su) then "no enemy presence".
As much as would like to love the mod, it seems that balance is completely off. From some few hours of playing i noticed that shields were beyond useless because for some reason any source of kinetic damage just insta pops them, and shield is the only defence of high tech shields, so they are beyond useless. And armor seems to be way too good, on somethung not made of paper it basically just laughs at the face of anything short of reaper or hellbore. And enemy ai doesnt really know what its doing, it just eats kinetic damage, gets overfluxes and dies horribly. The fact that vanila layouts arent the best in the mod doesnt help it.
Glad to see you're back Liral. :D
The previous numbers I posted still gave beam weapons excessive dps compared to their vanilla versions, so after extensive playtesting I've perfected the beam damage settings to match vanilla beam damage exactly, while retaining the increased range provided by the mod. I'll repost my guide for re-enabling vanilla damage and skills for anyone interested:
Essentially this keeps all aspects of the mod except for the damage and armor systems (As well as their associated player skills) which as a result of the fix should now be completely vanilla accurate. To adapt the mod follow these directions:
I could implement that request but could not make it easy because I presumed the damage model to be replaced when writing the beam weapon spec modification code, which modifies initial damage and emp per second and then limits maximum range to one at which the beam would be too diffracted to be efficiently fired. I could just not modify the damage were replaceDamageModel false, but the range modification would be rendered opaque to the user.
To be honest there's no need to do anything, as the directions I posted effectively accomplish all those things without needing alterations to the mod code. The only improvement would be just to make it so that all these changes take place under a single 'vanilla damage mode' toggle.
To be honest there's no need to do anything, as the directions I posted effectively accomplish all those things without needing alterations to the mod code. The only improvement would be just to make it so that all these changes take place under a single 'vanilla damage mode' toggle.
I don't think I can do that. Bummer.
well this seems intriguing but 'compatible out-of-the-box with all mods' is blatantly untrue from what i've tested
i should clarify- it doesn't crash and does apply its changes to every mod, which is where i have a problem with this being "compatible". i don't really think you can call it compatible with all other mods when it forces blanket changes to every other mod with zero preservation of those mods original designs or intentions.
the scy zone scorcher now has a refire delay of 0.07, for example
Fair enough: I'll say it 'runs out-of-the-box with all mods'. :) I need help finding consistent indications of designer intent to convert weapon performance to Realistic Combat standards while respecting original designs.
No worries! The only other thing I might add is that [REDACTED] should have retreat disabled even when retreat is set to true in Toggles.json. Retreat behavior should be limited to human NPCs, as redacted being able to retreat messes up any ingame event where they are guarding something, forcing players to re-engage repeatedly until CR expiration.
This mod would benefit a ton from LunaLib integration. All the features of the mod are good, but I think most players will find the magnitude of some or all of them (like the increased projectile speed) to be excessive, so the mod would benefit a lot from in-game tunability, so that every player can get the mod to feel just right for them without needing to reopen the game every time they want to make a small change. I assume there is a reason the integration was not already made, so, do you have any plans to implement an in-game config UI of some kind?
Also, as a secondary suggestion - the increased range of missiles means that charge-based PD weapons (burst laser and many similarly behaving mod PD weapons) become obsolete as they have no hope of keeping up with the sheer volume of missiles being fired at any given moment. There should be a script that massively multiplies the charges of any applicable PD weapon to account for this.
Also I know that's an old quote, but - assuming you do make an in-game configuration menu, would it be possible to create an interface that enables the player to create individual config profiles for each faction, so that they could individually tune each faction to more smoothly integrate it with the mod?
Someone could then upload their configs here, maybe on the mod's front page if you find them to reflect the faction well.
Also, this is just a funny anecdote, more compliment of the mod than anything else, but on the subject of mod weapons behaving unexpectedly because of this mod - the Volley Gun (small, high-OP, short-ranged kinetic scattergun) from the Blackrock Drive Yards mod has become a superweapon. The first shot instantly overloads the target and the next instagibs it, and the weapon is no longer limited by range.
This is something I really love about the mod - it makes old weapons behave completely differently and scrambles any in-faction meta I might have established, and suddenly makes niche "flavor weapons" that were once a waste of weapon mounts and OP in practice, suddenly viable or even optimal. It gives every mod faction I've been using for years a whole new feeling, which I like. But, the magnitudes of the changes can cause many weapons to trend towards either "anemic peashooter" or "veritable superweapon that causes [REDACTED] to self-implement ohFak.Retreat(situation Nope)".
How to install this mod, after didnt touch starsector a while was just gone back recently, and i seems to have troubble to not knowning what folders goes where, like before it just 1 folder and i just had to extract it at the mods, but now theres 7 folders separated, anyone mind giving me a guide?
Just wanted to say great work with the mod. the few bugs I had compared to the June build I have are gone and my performance somehow went way up as well.
the one in src? what about the others things like data, graphics, jars those things.No worries! The only other thing I might add is that [REDACTED] should have retreat disabled even when retreat is set to true in Toggles.json. Retreat behavior should be limited to human NPCs, as redacted being able to retreat messes up any ingame event where they are guarding something, forcing players to re-engage repeatedly until CR expiration.
I could make drones never retreat, why should they not? Their in-game goal is to make accessing the objective as hard as possible, and I imagine their efforts would include harassing fleets they can't defeat just to spite them.This mod would benefit a ton from LunaLib integration. All the features of the mod are good, but I think most players will find the magnitude of some or all of them (like the increased projectile speed) to be excessive, so the mod would benefit a lot from in-game tunability, so that every player can get the mod to feel just right for them without needing to reopen the game every time they want to make a small change. I assume there is a reason the integration was not already made, so, do you have any plans to implement an in-game config UI of some kind?
1. I didn't even know LunaLib had config-editing UI.
2. Weapon, projectile, and missile spec tuning happens once on startup, as far as I know.
3. I hadn't wanted Realistic Combat to have any dependencies.
This option might persuade me to at least use LunaLib if available.QuoteAlso, as a secondary suggestion - the increased range of missiles means that charge-based PD weapons (burst laser and many similarly behaving mod PD weapons) become obsolete as they have no hope of keeping up with the sheer volume of missiles being fired at any given moment. There should be a script that massively multiplies the charges of any applicable PD weapon to account for this.
I've doubled the ammo for burst beam point defenses.Also I know that's an old quote, but - assuming you do make an in-game configuration menu, would it be possible to create an interface that enables the player to create individual config profiles for each faction, so that they could individually tune each faction to more smoothly integrate it with the mod?
Someone could then upload their configs here, maybe on the mod's front page if you find them to reflect the faction well.
What an idea! Each modder who wanted to support Realistic Combat could pick the numbers.QuoteAlso, this is just a funny anecdote, more compliment of the mod than anything else, but on the subject of mod weapons behaving unexpectedly because of this mod - the Volley Gun (small, high-OP, short-ranged kinetic scattergun) from the Blackrock Drive Yards mod has become a superweapon. The first shot instantly overloads the target and the next instagibs it, and the weapon is no longer limited by range.
This is something I really love about the mod - it makes old weapons behave completely differently and scrambles any in-faction meta I might have established, and suddenly makes niche "flavor weapons" that were once a waste of weapon mounts and OP in practice, suddenly viable or even optimal. It gives every mod faction I've been using for years a whole new feeling, which I like. But, the magnitudes of the changes can cause many weapons to trend towards either "anemic peashooter" or "veritable superweapon that causes [REDACTED] to self-implement ohFak.Retreat(situation Nope)".
That's part of the idea of the mod: see how your ships and weapons fare under realistic conditions! I want so choose the spec modification that the answer is "They have a place."How to install this mod, after didnt touch starsector a while was just gone back recently, and i seems to have troubble to not knowning what folders goes where, like before it just 1 folder and i just had to extract it at the mods, but now theres 7 folders separated, anyone mind giving me a guide?
Extract the "RealisticCombat" folder from the zip file and put it into the mods folder in Starsector.Just wanted to say great work with the mod. the few bugs I had compared to the June build I have are gone and my performance somehow went way up as well.
Awwwww, thank you so much! Thanks to people who report bugs, I can fix them. I also have done some work to improve performance.
the one in src? what about the others things like data, graphics, jars those things.
I could make drones never retreat, why should they not? Their in-game goal is to make accessing the objective as hard as possible, and I imagine their efforts would include harassing fleets they can't defeat just to spite them.
Wait, I think you might have gotten multiple folders from extracting the .zip file, which should have given you only one folder titled "RealisticCombat" from extracting the .zip file. Is that right?
Started the mod from star wars. did a test battle with pirates. installed the most powerful faction cannon on my ship: 500 damage. The battle is underway. The enemy ship is a cargo ship, so brick and... It takes very little damage. At x2 acceleration, he scores 100 damage.
I like the concept of the mod, but I don't understand something. How to play with this mod I have yet to figure out.
bruh it was that easy the whole time, i was draging folder to the main game and it died.I could make drones never retreat, why should they not? Their in-game goal is to make accessing the objective as hard as possible, and I imagine their efforts would include harassing fleets they can't defeat just to spite them.
From a realistic perspective, it doesn't make sense for one or two nearly dead drones to be able to stop a fleet from plundering whatever they're guarding. More importantly though, it makes for annoying and unfun gameplay, which should be steered away from regardless of the reasoning behind it.Wait, I think you might have gotten multiple folders from extracting the .zip file, which should have given you only one folder titled "RealisticCombat" from extracting the .zip file. Is that right?
Realistic Combat is the only mod I know of that doesn't contain a single file that can be drag-extracted. Personally, I just make a 'RealisticCombat' folder then extract the .zip contents directly into it.
I'm really enjoying the mod, however I was wondering if there was a way to turn manual firing of ballistic weaponry back on? I find it really tedious and kind of annoying that I have to aim at this little dot instead of like, the huge ship I am fighting and do the target leading myself.
I've tried fiddling with various different files in the mod folders, I can get the lead indicator to go away but I can't change it's size - and even if it's gone the weapons are still locked to presumably a now invisible lead indicator.
Essentially this keeps all aspects of the mod except for the damage and armor systems (As well as their associated player skills) which as a result of the fix should now be completely vanilla accurate. To adapt the mod follow these directions:
In mod_info.json delete:
"replace":[
"data/characters/skills/ballistic_mastery.skill",
"data/characters/skills/energy_weapon_mastery.skill",
"data/characters/skills/impact_mitigation.skill",
"data/characters/skills/missile_specialization.skill",
"data/characters/skills/tactical_drills.skill",
"data/characters/skills/target_analysis.skill",
]<= Make sure you delete this last bracket.
Navigate to 'RealisticCombat/data' and delete the characters and strings folders. Then open the config folder and open the Toggles.json and WeaponSpecs.json files using Notepad++.
In Toggles.json set "replaceDamageModel" to false. If you want to also disable the mod's restrictive aim lock set "threeDimensionalTargeting" to false.
In WeaponSpecs.json change the following values: (To Liral, I recommend making it so that these changes happen automatically when replaceDamageModel is set to false)
At the top of the file:
"damageFactor" => 1
At the bottom of the file:
"directedEnergyMunition" => 0.092
"burst" => 0.092
"continuous" => 0.092
(These two values are negative)
"pointDefenseBeamMinimumFluxEfficiency" => -0.0009
"antiShipBeamMinimumFluxEfficiency" => -0.0009
I'm really enjoying the mod, however I was wondering if there was a way to turn manual firing of ballistic weaponry back on? I find it really tedious and kind of annoying that I have to aim at this little dot instead of like, the huge ship I am fighting and do the target leading myself.
I've tried fiddling with various different files in the mod folders, I can get the lead indicator to go away but I can't change it's size - and even if it's gone the weapons are still locked to presumably a now invisible lead indicator.
See the bolded part below.Essentially this keeps all aspects of the mod except for the damage and armor systems (As well as their associated player skills) which as a result of the fix should now be completely vanilla accurate. To adapt the mod follow these directions:
In mod_info.json delete:
"replace":[
"data/characters/skills/ballistic_mastery.skill",
"data/characters/skills/energy_weapon_mastery.skill",
"data/characters/skills/impact_mitigation.skill",
"data/characters/skills/missile_specialization.skill",
"data/characters/skills/tactical_drills.skill",
"data/characters/skills/target_analysis.skill",
]<= Make sure you delete this last bracket.
Navigate to 'RealisticCombat/data' and delete the characters and strings folders. Then open the config folder and open the Toggles.json and WeaponSpecs.json files using Notepad++.
In Toggles.json set "replaceDamageModel" to false. If you want to also disable the mod's restrictive aim lock set "threeDimensionalTargeting" to false.
In WeaponSpecs.json change the following values: (To Liral, I recommend making it so that these changes happen automatically when replaceDamageModel is set to false)
At the top of the file:
"damageFactor" => 1
At the bottom of the file:
"directedEnergyMunition" => 0.092
"burst" => 0.092
"continuous" => 0.092
(These two values are negative)
"pointDefenseBeamMinimumFluxEfficiency" => -0.0009
"antiShipBeamMinimumFluxEfficiency" => -0.0009
Patch 1.33.0 is out! Weapons that could 'bracket' a target with three shots around and one in the center to force it to move can now be fired when aimed a target radius from the center of the lead indicator and at any range.
From a realistic perspective, it doesn't make sense for one or two nearly dead drones to be able to stop a fleet from plundering whatever they're guarding. More importantly though, it makes for annoying and unfun gameplay, which should be steered away from regardless of the reasoning behind it.
Realistic Combat is the only mod I know of that doesn't contain a single file that can be drag-extracted. Personally, I just make a 'RealisticCombat' folder then extract the .zip contents directly into it.
Started the mod from star wars. did a test battle with pirates. installed the most powerful faction cannon on my ship: 500 damage. The battle is underway. The enemy ship is a cargo ship, so brick and... It takes very little damage. At x2 acceleration, he scores 100 damage.
I like the concept of the mod, but I don't understand something. How to play with this mod I have yet to figure out.
I'm really enjoying the mod, however I was wondering if there was a way to turn manual firing of ballistic weaponry back on? I find it really tedious and kind of annoying that I have to aim at this little dot instead of like, the huge ship I am fighting and do the target leading myself.
I've tried fiddling with various different files in the mod folders, I can get the lead indicator to go away but I can't change it's size - and even if it's gone the weapons are still locked to presumably a now invisible lead indicator.
Such amount of progress since I shortly dropped this game. And I'm still picking it up with this mod. Simply fancy. You should get paid for this. Add Patreon if you wish lol.
I am having bugs with this. One is that if a target can be "bracketed" like this I can manually aim away from it and fire manually at infinite range at other targets. Autofire for other weapons also seems bugged, as weapons will stop autofiring at targets that are within their visually shown dynamic range.
I sincerely appreciate all the hard work you've put into this mod.
I wanted to provide the following, because I'm seeing targeting and weapon firing behavior that doesn't make sense given the 3D physics described in the manual.
I've got an enemy frigate Cerebus, and it has machine guns and autocannons. It's directing fire at a box of borer drones, hitting and damaging them. There is about 3300 su of distance between the two, so this would be the absolute max range of the machine gun. I'd be surprised it can fire against a destroyer and hit at that range, much less a strike craft given that strafing effects should mean shooting a such a small target would be pretty much a near guaranteed miss.
At the same time, those borer drones aren't returning fire. There are no other eligible targets on the map; every other enemy ship and strike craft are dead, and there are no inbound missiles. Those mining lasers have a range of 6600, so in my mind those should be firing well before the enemy autocannon's 4000 range shells are incoming.
I get the beam weapons have diffraction, and presumably from the mining laser's max range of 6600 there would be little to no damage being applied to the enemy frigate, but....you're a borer drone, what else are you going to do? You have no shields, so it isn't like you're not firing so you can dissipate hard flux. And the mining laser consumes 10 flux/s versus your 100 flux/s base dissipation, so again it isn't like you're not firing so you can dissipate accumulated soft flux. I might even buy the argument that the drones are holding fire to get a 0-flux speed boost, but they are flying in box formation alongside a Shepherd, which has a slower speed than the Borer drones, so there is no need to obtain a 0-fux speed boost if you are just going to keep pace with a ship that is flying slower than your non-0-flux speed. There is absolutely nothing to be gained from not firing the mining laser, and everything to be gained by firing it, especially if the frigate had shields and was goaded into raising them to avoid the mining laser damage (and by extension forcing it to keep accumulated hard flux).
Sorry for the low image quality; forum says 192kb max size but keeps demanding lower files size than that. Let me know if you want original screengrabs.
Hello, I'm here again to ask something! What's the difference between the other download and the legacy one? Aside from being more compatible for mods
Paladin PD system is simply overpowered given it's cost under the new mechanism imo. Now I almost flood my large energy slot with this. Hopefully rebalanced.
Gazer DEMs don't work for me, orbit too far from target, lasers don't reach.
Can the auto retreat feature be a standalone sub mod? For some reason automated command has no global retreat setting so the hull mod must be added individually to each ship;
Can the auto retreat feature be a standalone sub mod? For some reason automated command has no global retreat setting so the hull mod must be added individually to each ship;
Toggle the retreat feature in Toggles.json.
This mods change hull mods such as the integrated targeting system which I couldn't disable in toggle.
This mods change hull mods such as the integrated targeting system which I couldn't disable in toggle.
To disable skills and hullmods respectively, delete or rename the replace field from mod_info.json and hull_mods.csv from data/hullmods.
tyvm :D, however when the csv file is deleted the range change all becomes 19% for all hull sizes. I tried to delete the other hullmod files but they just result in game crash on startup.
tyvm :D, however when the csv file is deleted the range change all becomes 19% for all hull sizes. I tried to delete the other hullmod files but they just result in game crash on startup.
Uh-oh. What if you delete the entire hullmods folder?
Omg it worked, ty so much the qol life features in your mod is incredibly nice to have.
https://imgur.com/a/xdVJ78q
I have no idea how to insert an image but there is a crash related to the weapon arc from this mod. I don't know whether it's related to the deletion of hull mods.
I may be a moron but i have problems with all weapons except laser beams and missiles - when i try to use them directly they doesn't work, but when they work in automod all weapons shoot perfectly. I tried to load only RC to understant is there a problem in some of mods but the same problem appeard. Maybe i need to toggle something in configs? Others aspects of mod works perfectly tho.
Press R to select a target and then aim in the indicator, which is hard, or let autofire aim for you.
Press R to select a target and then aim in the indicator, which is hard, or let autofire aim for you.
Welp i know how to do targeting in the game but problem is guns don't do anything in targeting mod either. But maybe i am a moron indeed and don't understand some basics
Press R to select a target and then aim in the indicator, which is hard, or let autofire aim for you.
Welp i know how to do targeting in the game but problem is guns don't do anything in targeting mod either. But maybe i am a moron indeed and don't understand some basics
The guns only fire when ur aiming perfectly into the circle, go to config and turn off 3D targeting (replace true with false) if u wanna fire anywhere
Press R to select a target and then aim in the indicator, which is hard, or let autofire aim for you.
Welp i know how to do targeting in the game but problem is guns don't do anything in targeting mod either. But maybe i am a moron indeed and don't understand some basics
The guns only fire when ur aiming perfectly into the circle, go to config and turn off 3D targeting (replace true with false) if u wanna fire anywhere
I have found a related bug and fixed it for the next release!
Paladin isn't just overpowered, it's completely broken. I can kill an Onslaught in like 10 shots at close range. Even at longer ranges the beam does multiple times the stated damage to shields.
The same problem also applies to the graviton array from Unthemed Weapons Pack, although not to any other beam weapon I've tested. The other beam weapons seem strong, especially high intensity laser, but not completely broken. Does it have something to do with Paladin and graviton array both having charges?
Essentially this keeps all aspects of the mod except for the damage and armor systems (As well as their associated player skills) which as a result of the fix should now be completely vanilla accurate. To adapt the mod follow these directions:
In mod_info.json delete:
"replace":[
"data/characters/skills/ballistic_mastery.skill",
"data/characters/skills/energy_weapon_mastery.skill",
"data/characters/skills/impact_mitigation.skill",
"data/characters/skills/missile_specialization.skill",
"data/characters/skills/tactical_drills.skill",
"data/characters/skills/target_analysis.skill",
]<= Make sure you delete this last bracket.
Navigate to 'RealisticCombat/data' and delete the characters and strings folders. Then open the config folder and open the Toggles.json and WeaponSpecs.json files using Notepad++.
In Toggles.json set "replaceDamageModel" to false. If you want to also disable the mod's restrictive aim lock set "threeDimensionalTargeting" to false, though with the latest update this isn’t really necessary. I also disable enemy retreat and show all weapon arcs as a personal preference.
In WeaponSpecs.json change the following values
At the top of the file:
Explosion bonus damage=> 0 (don’t recall the exact name of this value)
At the bottom of the file:
"directedEnergyMunition" => 0.092
"burst" => 0.092
"continuous" => 0.092
(These two values are negative)
"pointDefenseBeamMinimumFluxEfficiency" => -0.0009
"antiShipBeamMinimumFluxEfficiency" => -0.0009
Burst point defense charge multiplier => 1 (Don’t remember the exact name of this value either)
Refer to my guide below on returning the damage model to the vanilla system, which after extensive testing works great and in my opinion is better than the mod system due to the game originally being designed around it. If you want to keep the mod settings you can play around with the bottom values to tone down beam and PD damage alone.
Does this remove beam damage falloff? How are beams not overpowered given the much longer range then?
Also "Explosion bonus damage" is "damageBonusHighExplosiveProjectile":0?
Edit: upon testing these settings beam weapons in fact seem weaker than even vanilla. Maybe the damage decrease is too much?
Also beam weapons no longer generate hard flux with High Scatter Amplifier, and PD lasers now never autofire at ships, when they used to do so occasionally with base RC
Unfortunately that doesn't seem to solve the issue with the burst beams. As I said the crazy damage isn't consistent until you get to close range, but when it happens it deals way more than the stated damage.
Is anyone else able to replicate?
Unfortunately that doesn't seem to solve the issue with the burst beams. As I said the crazy damage isn't consistent until you get to close range, but when it happens it deals way more than the stated damage.
Is anyone else able to replicate?
Beam weapon damage increases dramatically at close range and, since the last patch, up to a limit specified in WeaponSpecs.json, which you can edit. Would you mind trying that and telling me what numbers work better?
This isn't necessarily an issue with initial beam intensity. Even when I turned initial beam intensity down to 300, damage done by paladin occasionally goes over 1000, while it's normally under 10, so it seems to be a bug somewhere else. But it is much rarer as you decrease initial beam intensity though. Can you not replicate this issue?
Apologies if this has been asked somewhere in here already, but is there a list of other mods compatible with this one? Or does this one change things so drastically that other mods are all incompatible?
Uh-oh, how should I try to replicate this issue?
Edit: If the beam intensity exceeds the effective total armor of the ship, then it hits the citadel and, if the beam is a burst beam, can inflict a critical malfunction, inflicting additional damage. I had thought you meant damage besides this effect. I wonder if you find the effect too powerful because I could remove it.
Welcome to the forum and thanks for considering Realistic Combat! This mod runs with all other mods but makes the content of many of them not work as intended or become unbalanced. I have a short list of mods that have problems and am thinking of how to at least reduce the worst problems.
https://imgur.com/ZGihaqq (https://imgur.com/ZGihaqq)
This is one shot with paladin on an Atlas with shields down, it does over 5000 damage, and burst intensity limit is set to 1500. So is this citadel damage? Do you get damage numbers this high in this scenario?
Thanks! And yeah, I like the idea of more realistic space combat, due at least in part to The Expanse ;-)
I'm presuming this list is what's in the "Compatibilities" tab of the original post? I had a bit of trouble parsing it but I can go back and take a look.
Patch 1.35.0 is out! Burst beams no longer inflict critical malfunctions.
Thanks, that issue is fixed. However now with the intensityLimits tachyon lance deals only 10s of damage at close range, but if you turn the intensityLimits higher then weapons like paladin goes back to doing thousands of damage per shot. It seems like there's a bug in the damage calculations somewhere?
| Weapon | Damage (Vanilla) | Damage (Realistic Combat) |
| Tactical Laser | 75 | Min(1,200, 6 * 75) = Min(1,200, 450) = 450 |
| Burst PD Laser | 350 | Min(1,500, 5 * 350) = Min(1,500, 2,100) = 1,500 |
| Paladin PD System | 1,000 | Min(1,500, 5 * 1,000) = Min(1,500, 5,000) = 1,500 |
Thanks, that issue is fixed. However now with the intensityLimits tachyon lance deals only 10s of damage at close range, but if you turn the intensityLimits higher then weapons like paladin goes back to doing thousands of damage per shot. It seems like there's a bug in the damage calculations somewhere?
The damage calculation code works as intended, but the weapon modification code produces wildly different results because it simply multiples and caps damage. For example:
Weapon Damage (Vanilla) Damage (Realistic Combat) Tactical Laser 75 Min(1,200, 6 * 75) = Min(1,200, 450) = 450 Burst PD Laser 350 Min(1,500, 5 * 350) = Min(1,500, 2,100) = 1,500 Paladin PD System 1,000 Min(1,500, 5 * 1,000) = Min(1,500, 5,000) = 1,500
To be intense at combat range, big lasers must be very intense at close range because they diffract over distance; therefore, getting close with a big laser will punch through armor. I lack an easy fix. I could:
- Change the weapon spec modification code to cap the initial intensity of only point defense lasers, but anti-ship lasers would remain powerful at close range
- Prohibit lasers from penetrating citadel armor entirely, but lasers would be much weaker against hull unless I also hiked their damage, which I could make independent of their diffraction
- Hike laser flux costs, which would reduce laser damage availability but, because beam weapon specs lack flux per second methods, the UI would still read the original, lower CSV flux per second of the weapon.
I have tried all these fixes at once and found ship-based lasers and moreso DEMs to be good against shields but weak against hull, point defense weapons just powerful enough to destroy missiles, and all laser flux costs balanced against their power.
I want to know what you think of these ideas and any you might have, too.
Sounds like a nice fix.
Also is it from this mod that changed the vanilla skill effects? Lots of them adds 10% combat readiness when all weapons are covered by certain skills. But since in fact making CR up to 100 is VERY easy and cheap, it simply sounds useless. Does it calculate and stack go above 100? Or perhaps this is going to be changed in future updates?
Also dealing damage with aircrafts like perdition wing to heavy targets might made too difficult. I'm fine with this alone, but it's made not worthwhile to play carriers. It could be balanced with increasing bomber damage (may scale with skills)? Cuz if it doesn't breach, it's simply pure heavy casualties from AA while playing nothing. But real problem is under vanilla realistic combat, we don't have much way to boost single hit strength of small crafts. Or maybe add some hullmods for modifying the bomber ammunition for stronger armor piercing with cost of reduced range etc.?
It keeps even such powerful beam weapons as Tachyon Lances from from penetrating citadel armor, which in hindsight seems unrealistic for any laser to do.
Uh-oh, not good. Is only the Perdition having trouble? I doubt the weapon aboard the Perdition is the problem because its Hammer Torpedo (single) deals 1,500 damage, enough to citadel all but the hardest targets, which you could do with such heavier-armed fighters as the Cobra, which carries a 4,000 damage Reaper. Maybe you mean the Piranha bomber, bombs from the Standard Bomb Bay of which deal only 400 damage. I could increase the damage of weapons with the "BOMB" hint but wonder what the consequences would be for modded content.
For balancing reasons I also recommend using fire-delay for lasers from missiles. It'll be awkward if Dragonfire doesn't penetrate anything XD.
Patch 1.35.0 is out! Burst beams no longer inflict critical malfunctions.
To be intense at combat range, big lasers must be very intense at close range because they diffract over distance; therefore, getting close with a big laser will punch through armor. I lack an easy fix. I could:
- Change the weapon spec modification code to cap the initial intensity of only point defense lasers, but anti-ship lasers would remain powerful at close range
- Prohibit lasers from penetrating citadel armor entirely, but lasers would be much weaker against hull unless I also hiked their damage, which I could make independent of their diffraction
- Hike laser flux costs, which would reduce laser damage availability but, because beam weapon specs lack flux per second methods, the UI would still read the original, lower CSV flux per second of the weapon.
Then I recommend scale citadel penetrating with fire-delay, or you might call it "Charging time". Say my armor is 2500: IF - the charging time of a laser that hit's me is longer than 2.5s (just an example), AND IF - it deals enough damage just as RC calculated, THEN - "Penetrate" ELSE - "No Penetrate", even if damage looks like it's enough, it just wiped out armor! As this is basically true when considering beam weapons that's "burst" while it's whole point is to concentrate and intensify charges to penetrate. Longer charging time MEANS that it should penetrate well. Throwing tons of energy without concentration only heats armor up.
For long lasting beam damage it could also be true if programming allows, IF - damage+ AND IF - time+, THEN - Penetrate.
For balancing reasons I also recommend using fire-delay for lasers from missiles. It'll be awkward if Dragonfire doesn't penetrate anything XD.
Yh pretty much the 1500 single hit stops it from penetrating hardest armor, or at least it takes me dozens of waves to take down Onslaught. Not a problem with Cobra. I say it could be problematic cuz Perdition is the top damage dealer within "Low Tech". If I just wanna play "Low Tech" then I also sort of have weak carriers. Like I said it's fine if you meant it and don't want to change anything here, it's only a recommendation that you could also put whether a CR or BOMB-damage multiplier into commander skill (for "using correct ammunitions").
Thought twice, maybe more realistic that lasers form missile always penetrate if damage is high enough. Cuz by any means if I somehow managed to shorten missile fire-delay. The effectiveness of warhead SHOULD remain same.
Is there a toggle for this? I can't seem to find it. I think it'd be useful for some mods to be able to keep the critical damage for burst beams. In my current weapon rework for example, while lasers are only PD weapons and ineffective against any armor, there are some particle burst beams intended to punch through citadels.
Why is initial intensity only a problem for PD lasers? Is it because they're balanced around short range in vanilla?
Why would lasers be weaker against hull? And what do you mean independent of diffraction?
Lasers and other beam weapons work by focusing a stream of light or particles on a spot for a while, but Starsector beams swing so wildly beams can focus only briefly
Even if the laser remains steady, the target ship would have to remain perfectly static relative to the laser weapon for it to be able to focus a spot to burn through thickness and layers of armor, which isn't a realistic option - unless you're a salvage ship hovering a wreck to cut apart lol. If the laser opens in bursts, each burst would only burn one layer in one specific spot each time.
Earlier in the thread I mentioned I was working on a total rework of weapons (including sprites, lore etc) using Realistic Combat as a base that I might post here. It's still WIP, but my current paradigms for beams are:
Lasers are fairly old weapons, and mostly effective at missile defense. Even heavier fighters shrug them off. If an older warship design has energy emplacements, it is typically only small turret mounts originally intended to carry lasers as PD.
Non-light particle beam weapons are more advanced, developed alongside more modern ships and power systems able to make them into practical combat weapons. Mainly intended to provide energy-focused ships with either long-range capability against armor (near instant kinetic beams, with heavy drawbacks) or long-range suppression capability using secondary effects. Some modern anti-fighter weapons are in this category as well.
but please remember my warning when considering Realistic Combat as a "base" for another mod: I am still developing Realistic Combat and can change it as drastically as I have modified beam weapon damage.
That's fine - many of the changes you've made over time have allowed me to also rethink parts of my mod. I had progressively lost my enthusiasm towards Starsector in the past 2-3 years, and your mod and the fantastic framework that it provides rekindled my love for the game and pushed me to turn the my small personal side-mod into a wide-scope realism rework of the game, which I am working on to become the basis for all of my future playthroughs.
Really, thank you for all the work you've done so far.
Patch 1.36.0 is out! Beams no longer penetrate citadel armor. Only point defense beam initial intensity is limited. Beams do full damage on penetrating surface armor, limited otherwise as usual, regardless of distance. Add "doNotModify" to the Tags column of the weapon_data.csv row of a weapon that you do not want Realistic Combat to modify.
Good afternoon, could you tell me how to solve the problem of "infinite" laser swords from the Arma Armatura mod? They operate across all space, burning fleets in seconds. Is there any way to specifically limit their attack radius?
Haha. i did it. Just add tag. So easy!
Hello! First things first, thank you for all the work you've put into this mod. It's completely revitalized the Starsector experience for me, and I love the balance it strikes between the space opera combat of vanilla and hard sci-fi combat like The Expanse. I've been quietly enjoying it for ages, so I should finally make the thank you post I've put off.
I recently started a new run with the latest RC, and am glad to see that beams and frag weapons have been dialed in. I'm particularly enjoying that ships are a bit more survivable at the low end of their structure values, as it feels like light weapons can grind down the CR while heavier weapons break the ship itself.
That said, I'm finding that EMP weapons from salamander missiles to ion beams/cannons are shorting out large ships in seconds. In the past I've tweaked the values provided in DamageModel.json to adjust basic balance, but it looks like EMP effects aren't as easy to find. I'm a total novice when it comes to how Starsector mods are structured, and am struggling to even find the right documentation to consult. Is there an easy way to modify the EMP strength like there is for the other damage types?
Would you please tell me how to replicate this effect? Second, Realistic Combat does modify the EMP damage of beam weapons, but I have never heard this complaint about them.
Third, Realistic Combat lacks any direct way for the user to modify EMP damage.
I first noticed it in play, where it affected modded and vanilla EMP weapons equally. Specifically, I was trying to retreat from a pirate interception and a single vanilla ion beam at ~8000 range made it physically impossible to escape. It was able to reliably flame out my cruiser's engines at that distance, and do it within the couple second window where the retreat forced my shields off. But that was modded, so neither here nor there.
I was two or three versions of RC behind, and only just updated a few days ago to start a new save. It is possible that I'm noticing several rounds of changes rather than just the most recent update.
To reproduce it with all other mods disabled, I launched with the Bounty Hunter origin. In the starter wolf with a purchased Ion Beam on the front, I can flame out a simulated Onslaught's engines by beaming its nose. In the time it takes that Onslaught to operate its burn drive, I will have shorted out two thirds of its weaponry. EMP arcs will also pierce shields starting at ~40% hard flux, and while more muted can still flame out most ships within ~15 seconds. This is all in the simulator, but if anything the effect is more pronounced in proper combat.
In early game anti-pirate fights, two wolf frigates with an ion cannon each are enough to keep a Falcon(P) operating at about 10% capability indefinitely. This was with supporting fire to pressure shields, but probably still not the intended efficiency for two small-mount weapons. I don't have any good RC-only saves to go back to, so I wasn't able to test out higher-end vanilla content as easily.
I guess I was hoping there was some magic wand variable in a json so I could suggest a modified value instead of just giving vague impressions. I can try to get farther in the save to see if Mjolnirs and such have the same increased EMP effect, but unfortunately I don't have the knowledge base to offer much other than time.
I don't have issues quite that extreme, but it still seems to me that ballistic weapons are rather weak against targets with lots of armor, and beam weapons, while strong against shields, are very weak against hull. A tachyon lance does less than 100 in damage.
Is it possible to add a toggle to allow armor to be stripped away?
I must be doing something wrong,
because all this mod has done to my game is make all weapons except missiles utterly worthless
and combat impossible to win.
Probably related to all the other mods I'm running
but smaller ships just stay out of range and this mod makes it impossible to fire at them because of the way it reduces weapon range relative to target maneuverability. So I just get chipped away to death and there's nothing I can do about it.
Beam weapons don't work against them either, because as far as I can tell they don't do any damage to shields, armor, or hull at all.
In the rare instance where I fight a ship where I can get in range, nearly every weapon I've equipped fails to actually destroy the ship I'm shooting at.
I'll completely destroy all the armor on the side of the ship facing me and should be hitting hull or ship interior and...nothing happens. The target ship's hull stops deteriorating at a certain point and no matter how much I hit the ship, no new damage is done.
None of this makes any sense at all.
I don't have issues quite that extreme, but it still seems to me that ballistic weapons are rather weak against targets with lots of armor, and beam weapons, while strong against shields, are very weak against hull. A tachyon lance does less than 100 in damage.
Is it possible to add a toggle to allow armor to be stripped away?
Yeah, for fact-finding purposes, I created a new game, used console commands to give myself a Paragon and four Tachyon Lances. Loaded up one of those crappy pirate freight combat conversion ships, and was barely doing anything to it despite being in range and hitting with all four lances.
This mod makes no sense to me at all.
As intended, thick armor deflects low damage fire entirely. Use higher damage weapons. Use beam weapons to deal damage over time.
Imagine coming to someones freely posted mod thread, the creator answering politely trying to help and you responding with this passive-agressive clownery. Just so you know - you're not the smart one here. Even worse when you make big claims about how things should work without actually knowing what you're talking about - or lying about the mod's features. And by the way - the mod graciously provides you with countless levers and settings to alter every part of it to your liking - but that didn't factor into your rant, somehow.
Imagine coming to someones freely posted mod thread, the creator answering politely trying to help and you responding with this passive-agressive clownery. Just so you know - you're not the smart one here. Even worse when you make big claims about how things should work without actually knowing what you're talking about - or lying about the mod's features. And by the way - the mod graciously provides you with countless levers and settings to alter every part of it to your liking - but that didn't factor into your rant, somehow.
LOL right, his point-by-point analysis of my four sentences - wherein I admit up front the fault is probably mine - was totally cool, me RESPONDING TO THAT, that's the problem here.
*insert Robert Downey Jr. Eyeroll meme here*
I have some questions about your settings, you might have answered elsewhere so apologies if a reiteration.
In the "ShipSpecs" settings are the speed values additive?
specifically these
" "Increase maximum speed of corresponding ship class":"",
"maxSpeedBonuses":{
"DEFAULT":0,
"FIGHTER":300,
"FRIGATE":250,
"DESTROYER":175,
"CRUISER":125,
"CAPITAL_SHIP":50"
can we do negative values in those sections? like -50 for capital ships?
similarly are the "multiply" values additive multiplication or? For instance take acceleration
"Multiply acceleration of corresponding ship class":"",
"accelerationFactors":{
"DEFAULT":1,
"FIGHTER":2,
"FRIGATE":0.75,
"DESTROYER":0.80,
"CRUISER":0.85,
"CAPITAL_SHIP":1
},
Does this mean that frigates are only getting 75% of their acceleration or that they are getting 175% of their acceleration (as in an additional 75% on top of their base?)?
Also being new to Starsector is there any mod that decreases the size of fighter sprites? Or perhaps make non fighters larger? Something like that.
Finally thank you so much for your very user friendly and adjustable mod, I basically bought starsector after I saw this was a mod because I knew I could adjust the game to my own wierd specific preferences. Thank you so much!
I have some questions about your settings, you might have answered elsewhere so apologies if a reiteration.
In the "ShipSpecs" settings are the speed values additive?
specifically these
" "Increase maximum speed of corresponding ship class":"",
"maxSpeedBonuses":{
"DEFAULT":0,
"FIGHTER":300,
"FRIGATE":250,
"DESTROYER":175,
"CRUISER":125,
"CAPITAL_SHIP":50"
can we do negative values in those sections? like -50 for capital ships?
Yes!Quotesimilarly are the "multiply" values additive multiplication or? For instance take acceleration
"Multiply acceleration of corresponding ship class":"",
"accelerationFactors":{
"DEFAULT":1,
"FIGHTER":2,
"FRIGATE":0.75,
"DESTROYER":0.80,
"CRUISER":0.85,
"CAPITAL_SHIP":1
},
Does this mean that frigates are only getting 75% of their acceleration or that they are getting 175% of their acceleration (as in an additional 75% on top of their base?)?
Just multiply! Frigates, for example, get only 75% of their original acceleration.QuoteAlso being new to Starsector is there any mod that decreases the size of fighter sprites? Or perhaps make non fighters larger? Something like that.
I know not.QuoteFinally thank you so much for your very user friendly and adjustable mod, I basically bought starsector after I saw this was a mod because I knew I could adjust the game to my own wierd specific preferences. Thank you so much!
Awwwwww, thank you! I'm amazed that this mod inspired you to buy Starsector because of its adjustability. You're welcome for the mod. Please tell me what you adjust and how, that I might do likewise.
If you dont mind I have some more questions.
What does this value do in the maps config file
"standOffFactorWithObjectives" you have this and the withoutobjectives set to 0.75 which I imagine is a multiplication value, what of though?
In addition is the Radar in your mod not supposed to have a circular UI integration? A UI border if you understand what im saying? The radar works but its borderless which for some reason makes it very visually hard for me to read. I will try to turn it off and use that other Radar mod in hopes that it is different.
Finally can you explain what the two option setting categories int he "fleet retreat" settings do.
"Loss threshold" fearless: 1.0 would mean what excatly?
Thank you
Hotfix 1.37.1 is out! Clarified documentation of Map.json and documented FleetRetreat.json.
I just want to start off by saying that I love this mod. I think its really cool and fun and I enjoy most of the changes done to combat.
EDIT: After reading through the config files and reading through the damage model I think I understand everything in that regards now. So ignore all of that. I do think adding some example damage calculations to the guide might help people get a grasp of how things work but reading the file descriptions helped.
Although many have complained about three dimensional targetting, I think it makes sense and enjoy it for the most part. I just wish it was more forgiving as even when I am in range, I struggle to precisely aim my fixed weapons on target, even against larger vessels.
Weapons that require a charge up before firing are near impossible to shoot since getting off target resets the time to charge. I've seen the red circle leading target get bigger but I don't know how to make that happen. Preferably, I would rather just make the circle bigger all the time so its much more forgiving.
Finally, is there an option to disable angled armor? I am mixed about whether I want to remove it or not as it does make it more realistic and give the option to angle your ships to increase armor, however it does make some ships far stronger than intended as they have naturally slanted armor. Maybe if there some way or weapon that ignores armor slanting? Fragmentation is mostly useless outside of PD however it would make sense to reason that it would also ignore armor slanting entirely as it would be akin to High Explosive rounds which damage via concussive force and spraying shrapnel in all directions. This would give the few weapons which did do frag damage a little unique quirk and reason to use them.
"read the Field Manual to understand what's changed and what it means."
Internet mistake #1, just because I don't like something doesn't mean I'm not familiar with it. I've read the manual. I'm saying combat feels way worse, not better, and certainly not "realistic."
"Missiles in Realistic Combat are fast and maneuverable, but point defense can stop them."
Small missiles are 1-2 shotting Frigate class ships and below, this makes them WAY more effective than every other weapon in the game."
"With beam weapons, you need to get close enough for the beam to be focused enough to pierce the surface armor of the target."
This is silly. You're telling me we've mastered AI to the point where it tried to kill us and of course mastered faster than light travel, but somehow optics are stuck in the pre-Victorian days, so a giant space battleship has to be arm's reach from an enemy to harm it with a beam weapon?
Mmkay.
"Just as intended, armor never ablates in Realistic Combat but instead remains a barrier that fire either penetrates or does not, and the armor cell diagram represents non-essential compartments for the player to destroy."
I hope you realize how unrealistic this is. And this is coming from a guy who's shot at armored stuff. Armor that gets turned to swiss cheese is nowhere near as effective (as in, not effective at all) as fresh armor.
"To destroy a ship, you need either a lot of small weapons fire to, per the Realistic Combat damage model, destroy all non-essential compartments beneath the surface armor, or a few huge hits penetrating the citadel."
This isn't realistic either. Destroying the bridge will render a ship highly combat ineffective. Destroying the engines will render it immobile. Multiple penetrating hits are going to quickly vent the internal atmosphere. I shouldn't need to destroy every square inch of interior space in a ship to finish it off.
"Hope it makes sense now."
Nope.
"Beam weapons can penetrate only surface armor and are for damage over time against enemy non-essential compartments and exposed systems. "
What I'm telling you here is 4 x Tachyon Lances never managed to drop the shields of a junker pirate freighter converted into a combat ship. I barely put a scratch on them at all. Apparently I should've gotten to within spitting distance, which totally does not and in no way completely and utterly negates the purpose of a mod that drastically extends the range of already long-range weapons.
If you wanted combat to be realistic, then I should be able to take out enemy engines on unshielded ships with a single railgun shot from across the map, i.e. The Expanse. Or hit even a large capital ship with a single nuclear missile and obliterate it. Ships are almost entirely unprotected against any real weapon strikes because actual space ships can't afford the mass real armor would create.
I take issue with some of these statements. starsector is an extremely advanced setting, to the point where every ship has a built in dedicated self repair system, so that's why stuff can't be permentantly disabled.
they also use huge amounts of ablative composite armor to absorb impacts, so the statement about it supposed to be like the expanse is also wrong. but yes I overall agree, the removal of armor ablation is the least realistic part of this,
and as someone who struggles to main anything but star fed, the ineffectiveness of beams in this hurts me to the core, the diffusion on beams is just painful
also seeing burst PD(IE the best PD in the game) struggle to stop missiles from frigates even, not sure why that's happening
love the mod though, I'm heading into a new game, and I'm still trying to wrap my head around the dynamics of the mod. it's just so alien compared to normal starsector.
having played a bit, I can actually solidify my thoughts, as it stands the mod is... frankly not very well balanced, no offense,
I appreciate the customizability, but I personally don't want to tweak the game until it's in a balanced state, notably starting with a few hightech ships, and the ability for them to deal with multiple ships just drops like a rock, battles that would be easy wins in vanilla are complete failures in RC.
I think I blame this on a couple things- 1st, the damage system is prone to having all compartments destroyed resulting in a very durable wreck, there's another game that I actually mod myself, called nebulous fleet command. one of the ways it handles this (ships don't have HP, they have compartments, which serve function, and a ship is only destroyed if it's reactor fails, otherwise it's mission killed, and abandoned) is with structure damage, which is a global "structure bar" of a ship, and when a ship is structure broken, damage gets distributed to every component in the ship, on hits that don't actually hit anything critical, this way even a battleship will eventually die if you keep shooting it in the bow(eventually)
blasters and other heavy ablating weapons seriously suffer here,
some of the highest burst damage in energy is tied up in beams, and beams are a little too intensely diffracted. especially high flux burst beams, firing for little to no effect is crippling.
I've also watched several burst PD turrets fail to stop a single missile salvo, which is a little egregious
in terms of changes, I definitely turned up beams a bit, I tried adding .1 to the numbers, and didn't notice much of a change, I'm guessing it needs some drastic adjustment.
shields feel pretty useless as well, least in situations where you're outnumbered. it's more effective to use your flux for weapons
armor is *seriously compromised* and this is just kinetic(mostly) by impacts - we're not even talking about things like lasers or so on- maybe to a lesser degree, but I personally would like an option for armor ablation in some formSpoilerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGptbjgerlc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkMYEn1W99I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDHEfBg50mQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFdOgkllUvs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2DAmQMPtHg[close]
I love this mod, but the balance issues are pretty high, and having to actually figure out how to play the mod on top of that makes learning it pretty difficult
Edit: I'm extremly ADHD, but I'd like to point at something like FTD, composite armor absolutely takes tons of compromising damage there, and still manages to be pretty realistic
notably I was only testing against smaller ships even, but my couple hightech ships couldn't even get through destroyers and cruisers, and that's with heavy blasters
Anyone got any recommended settings? Love what the mod does but feels a bit weird that things just.. kinda dont die lol
Anyone else still getting the 0% hull unkillable enemies bug? It seems to be happening every medium-large scale battle. 3-4 enemy ships will be at 0% hull and can't be destroyed through conventional means or console commands.Mod List
"SBTM",
"pantera_ANewLevel40",
"Cryo_but_better",
"aod_vos",
"aotd_vok",
"armaa",
"timid_admins",
"combatactivators",
"lw_console",
"customizablestarsystems",
"lost_sector",
"lw_lazylib",
"lunalib",
"exshippack",
"MagicLib",
"nexerelin",
"officerExtension",
"sith",
"assortment_of_things",
"RealisticCombat",
"sw",
"sun_starship_legends",
"stelnet",
"Terraforming & Station Construction",
"which_industry",
"shaderLib"[close]
Anyone else still getting the 0% hull unkillable enemies bug? It seems to be happening every medium-large scale battle. 3-4 enemy ships will be at 0% hull and can't be destroyed through conventional means or console commands.Mod List
"SBTM",
"pantera_ANewLevel40",
"Cryo_but_better",
"aod_vos",
"aotd_vok",
"armaa",
"timid_admins",
"combatactivators",
"lw_console",
"customizablestarsystems",
"lost_sector",
"lw_lazylib",
"lunalib",
"exshippack",
"MagicLib",
"nexerelin",
"officerExtension",
"sith",
"assortment_of_things",
"RealisticCombat",
"sw",
"sun_starship_legends",
"stelnet",
"Terraforming & Station Construction",
"which_industry",
"shaderLib"[close]
Please tell me how to reproduce this bug consistently because I haven't seen it.
I don't think there is a way to reproduce the bug "consistently". I enter a battle. It happens or it doesn't. I'm assuming there may be a conflict with another mod, perhaps - but what I can say is it effects modded ships, as well as vanilla ones.
I don't think there is a way to reproduce the bug "consistently". I enter a battle. It happens or it doesn't. I'm assuming there may be a conflict with another mod, perhaps - but what I can say is it effects modded ships, as well as vanilla ones.
The consistent way, if you feel like it, would be to save before each battle that might cause the bug, note which ships are affected, fight, win, then reload and repeat. Regardless, if it affects vanilla ships too, then we know that the modded ones aren't necessarily causing the problem. The list of possible mod conflicts therefore likely narrows to non-ship mods; e.g., Starship Legends.
I too have experienced a similar problem. However, I didn't bother to report it because I wasn't familiar with the community.
You are correct that it is an ARMA mod issue. Enemies being 'attacked' by certain weapons in this mode become invincible. It was probably a weapon named 'Target painter'. try remove that weapon. It worked for me
I'm finding the changes to be really fascinating. Buuuut, does anyone have their own balancing files I could DL? I find that combat goes on far to long, turning minor skirmishes into real slogs- And I can't figure out what manner I ought to change the values to that keeps the fun new feeling.
Hey guys, is it just me or does this mod make the player unable to fire any weapon other than missiles?
I've troubleshooted this problem by disabling every mod except for this one and the issue still persists. Strangely enough, if weapon group is set to auto-fire, the guns work just fine, its only under player control that they are unable to shoot.
is this a bug or an intended feature?
P.S Upon further examination, it appears this bug only applies to any weapon that creates a projectile (except for missiles). Lasers appear to be unaffected
It's a feature: the player can't fire a non-missile projectile weapon without pressing R to select a target and keeping the mouse over the lead indicator.
Okay, so I think I figured out my problem. The ship pack I'm using has very thin, narrow ships that I *think* are taking advantage of the angled armour feature. I tried looking in the configs to see if there was anything I could do to make angles less effective, but I couldn't see anything obvious. Did I miss a setting by mistake?
I'm glad you like them! You need to use weapons that deal higher damage per shot
Oh, in that case, is there any way to toggle this feature?
Okay, so I think I figured out my problem. The ship pack I'm using has very thin, narrow ships that I *think* are taking advantage of the angled armour feature. I tried looking in the configs to see if there was anything I could do to make angles less effective, but I couldn't see anything obvious. Did I miss a setting by mistake?
A quick fix I figured out for this was to just multiply the damage done, but it also makes normal ships more vulnerable as well.
Toggles.json "threeDimensionalTargeting". That said, why would you want to turn it off?
oh, thank you so much.
As for why I want it off, the targetting is inconsistent thus very frustrating to work with, to clarify, the weapon selected most times wouldn't fire when the mouse is on the reticle or the reticle either isn't visible or the target is moving to quickly and the reticle too small to easily stay on target.
in other words,
1. inconsistent
2. skill issue (on my part)
I too have experienced a similar problem. However, I didn't bother to report it because I wasn't familiar with the community.
You are correct that it is an ARMA mod issue. Enemies being 'attacked' by certain weapons in this mode become invincible. It was probably a weapon named 'Target painter'. try remove that weapon. It worked for me
encountered this CTD with diable avionics ships, happens every single time i target a specific cruiser, the one that is the frontline cruiser shaped like a T.
193218 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at RealisticCombat.listeners.WeaponFacings.isFacingHidden(WeaponFacings.java:41)
at RealisticCombat.listeners.WeaponFacings.advance(WeaponFacings.java:102)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:750)
193230 [Thread-9] INFO
Hotfix 1.37.3 is out! Fixed a null-pointer exception.
Hotfix 1.37.3 is out! Fixed a null-pointer exception.
Appreciate the quick work!!
10/10. Also, I may have found a fix for the Arma conflict. I added "doNotModify" to a certain "weapon" placement. The Landing Override. That seems to be working, so far. I'll keep updating as I find new things. If I make it completely bug free, I might offer up an compatch to the Arma dev, or to you. Whoever bites first, I guess. Lol.
Appreciate the quick work!!
You're welcome!10/10. Also, I may have found a fix for the Arma conflict. I added "doNotModify" to a certain "weapon" placement. The Landing Override. That seems to be working, so far. I'll keep updating as I find new things. If I make it completely bug free, I might offer up an compatch to the Arma dev, or to you. Whoever bites first, I guess. Lol.
Don't wait! Please tell the mod author when you add each "doNotModify" tag. You might not catch every bug, but you can at least catch some.
I'm finding the changes to be really fascinating. Buuuut, does anyone have their own balancing files I could DL? I find that combat goes on far to long, turning minor skirmishes into real slogs- And I can't figure out what manner I ought to change the values to that keeps the fun new feeling.
So, none of that worked... I did narrow it down, though. It's the Einhander from Arma, for me. I tried the same battle multiple times with the Einhander entering combat and the invincibility bug trigger on the same ship(s) every time. Then, when I initiated battle without the Einhander, none of the ships had it. I have tried removing the landing override module entirely to no avail. I'm still messing with it - but I'll get it.
So, on a whim, I decided to reinstall Starsector. No particular reason, as I hadn't messed with any vanilla files- but screw it, right? I did that, removed the target painter from ArmaA entirely. No traces of it anymore and voila. Done. It's entirely fixed. Probably went through 100 battles without a single instance of invulnerability.
Not sure what was wrong with my Vanilla files, but something was, assuredly. Oh well. Ezpz.
Hello I just got back into SS and trying out your mod. I for the life of me cannot figure out how damage works. Over the course of the last few hours trying numerous amounts of separate weapons in a sim Combat just seems to go on forever. and I seem to be doing minimal damage use EFP LRP or frag Sometimes I also seem to just get zapped by certain enemies Im hitting ships with railguns and there is a tiny amount of damage being dealt meanwhile they are hitting me with impunity with rapid fire guns ripping me to shreds am I just going to assuming large big guns are pretty much not effective anymore? Cause how can a corvette out class a destroyer that should actually have more firepower with bigger larger guns that reach farther and deal more damage? . Ive looked over your manual a ton to no avail. I am using other ship mods which include other weapons. I.E Mayasuran Navy, Outer Rim alliance, tahlan-shipworks-1.2.7, and All the missing ships modules.
I like this mod very much!
However, I use only "damage model" and "increased map size" features (with added graphical indications)!
Don't feel ready enough for "+5000long range" part yet, hehe:)
But my question is about this exact TOGGLE in configs (30th line):
Every ship should limit the range of every non-missile projectile":"",
"weapon on it to one at which the target of that weapon could not":"",
"strafe, whether horizontally or vertically, off the path of the":"",
"projectile before it would strike
Could you be so kind and put in in more simple words?
It seems like a needful thing which alters AI in some way, but, as mentioned earlier here, turning this feature off is required to allow "manual firing" which many people enjoy.
Thank you very much for your time and effort!
I really like the mod a lot, i played with the mod in several versions, and recently I returned to Starsector, but i don't like the three-dimensional target this time, like the idea, and it makes sense to me, but the weapons only fire when the mouse is over the aim didn't make sense to me, and its annoyng, because especially against small targets and with fixed weapons the weapons simply don't fire.
A suggestion, it would make a chance of missing targets depending on the size when the aim is not locked, and a reduction in the weapon's range when the target is locked, but with a guaranteed hit when the projectile intercepts the target.
And it would be more balanced, because a small, fast ship against a large target is basically guaranteed that it will never be hit, and it not makes sense, because in a battle between a Conquest and a Wolf Class, it is difficult for the Conquest to hit the Wolf with a single projectile, but a barrage of shots against a small target (when the Wolf its not locked for example), some shot will hit the target.
Furthermore, I love the mod, I really can't play the game without it, and I apologize if it was difficult to understand, English is not my first language.
I really like the way damage is dealt to other ships. Especially angled armor being usefull. There is a few things keeping me from using this however. I have tried to change the weapon ranges back to default while keeping the damage changes.
If you can provide any help on how to do this it would be appreciated. Another thing is if somehow the explosion particle effects from projectiles hitting a ship can be brought back? All those special effect explosioms don't occur and it doesn't look very good. Thanks.
Awwww, thanks! I'm glad you like how damage is dealt to ships. To keep weapon range from being increased, set modifyWeaponSpecs to false in data/config/Toggles.json. To keep weapon range from adjusting based on the target, set threeDimensionalTargeting to false in data/config/Toggles.json. I'll add bringing back special effects to the roadmap.
I've tried the mod, and I don't understand it. A larger battlefield, yes, and no fog of war, yes. But as for the rest: missile range is unchanged, yet beam ranges are five times more or less than the vanilla beams—why? The mod would have been perfect for a Honor Harrington style of battle, i.e., very long-range missile exchanges with beams/shells for close range. However, it's actually the opposite. If someone could explain the design philosophy behind the mod to me, I feel like I'm missing an element of the equation here.
Actually it might be that the only missile I had was a Breach missile, perhaps not vanilla. But as tactical laser (vanilla) had a super range while my missiles did not, I assumed it was all working as planned.
So perhaps not, and it was because it is not a vanilla missile? IDK really ...
Oh, I see, it makes sense. I would have preferred long-range missiles, but I'll give your mod another try, keeping your comments in mind. What's good is that it can be added or removed dynamically! I've examined how you expanded the battlefield, but it appears you introduced specific variables, probably used in your own functions. I was actually aiming to increase the default battlefield size in vanilla. Is there an easy solution?
Hi Liral, coming back around for a .96a playthrough. In your Compatibility section, you mention RC will override Quality Captain's skills. Is this still the case? In the below example, the skill text shows Quality Captain's skill and not RC's. Is RC replacing the skill but not the text description? Thanks, I'd love to play these mods together.
https://imgur.com/a/GqmZE7b
Sure thing. In the meantime, I'd like to know more about how Realistic Combat's damage model changes interact with skills and hullmods. My understanding is skills that modify damage need replacing, based on how your mod overwrites vanilla's Energy Weapon Mastery. For a skill like in the below screenshot, do any of those stat mods function with RC?
https://imgur.com/a/epSruQR
I'm curious about other stat mods as well but I'll settle for knowing about this example for now. Thanks.
The Realistic Combat damage model ignores damage modification skills and hullmods, both of which I mean for Realistic Combat to replace with its own. If you see otherwise, then please tell me.
There were three different skills listed in that screenshot that I'm curious about. Are you implying that damage to shields is ignored and range/speed interact correctly with RC? Or does the entire skill get ignored?
If damage to shields doesn't work with CR, then does Hardened Shields do anything?
EDIT: In my testing, I did find the Damage to Shields works correctly, so I have to wonder the exact parameters of the RC damage model ignoring damage mod skills and hullmods.
Is there meant to be any sounds when a projectile hits a ship? I cannot hear any impacts. If this wasn't missing impact sounds/effects then this would be perfect
amazing mod
although some ships take way too long to die, probably something with how armor is simulated, they just keep taking several minutes of fire even though every single weapon keeps getting disabled
been playing some more, there's something wrong with the armor changes, even a broadsword fighter just takes too long to die
disabling the damage model changes makes beam weapons extremely OP, not sure how to proceed
i've been using high intensity laser beams on most of my ships, after messing around with the values in the damage model i think the compartment system is at blame? hitting ships with reaper torps will still delete them. while the reaper still does absurd damage, harpoons and hurricanes seen lackluster compared to vanilla
just guessing around, but i think the armor reduction factor is still at play even after u degrade the armor, which is why thinks take so long to die
or maybe it's the compartment damage mechanic that remains active even after said compartment is "destroyed"?
most fighters have an unusually long life, it's more noticeable with broadswords
pd lasers just take forever to kill strikecraft that hav just a bit more armor than usual, the spark interceptor really struggles with killing other strikecraft as well, probably because of the way beam damage is reduced against anything with =>100 armor
i recall hitting broadswords with 2x intensity lasers and it taking more or less 15 seconds of fire to take it down - the fighter wasn't raising shields either, it was just tanking it
couldnt find a way to toggle out of the weaponry damage changes whitout toggling the range changes and velocity changes too, i would like to play with the different engagement present in the mod but with the vanilla weapon damage and vanilla ship damage models
i would like to play with the different engagement present in the mod but with the vanilla weapon damage and vanilla ship damage models
is it possible to have this option?
768980 [Thread-3] INFO com.fs.starfarer.loading.LoadingUtils - Loading CSV data from [ABSOLUTE_AND_CWD: null]
770494 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.ClassCastException: com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.while cannot be cast to com.fs.starfarer.api.loading.BeamWeaponSpecAPI
java.lang.ClassCastException: com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.while cannot be cast to com.fs.starfarer.api.loading.BeamWeaponSpecAPI
at RealisticCombat.plugins.ModPlugin.modifyWeaponSpecs(ModPlugin.java:90)
at RealisticCombat.plugins.ModPlugin.onApplicationLoad(ModPlugin.java:147)
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.ResourceLoaderState.init(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)Hello!
I just started playing Starsector for the 1st time since 2012 and decided to get all the mods from the list. So far everything works perfectly except... Modded weapons! I understand that this mod does not support them, and makes them almost useless, but there is one thing that i would like to keep, and it's range. I just can't get back to vanilla weapon firing range, and I must ask if there's a way to leave just that one thing enabled.
Or maybe is there a way to just disable the damage model?
Thank You in advance!
Hotfix 2.0.2 is out! Fixed a crash-to-desktop occurring when modifying non-beam payload weapons of missiles.
Just to be sure I understood right, that should fix the issue I have run into, correct?
I haven't played this mod in forever, decided to load it up and try it again, when I lock on to a target the range of my weapons drop to a very short range, and when I unlock a target they stay really short. I had several mods on at first, but Ive tested with all the mods off and I'm still getting this issue. I was using Auto cannons and Light machine guns. I had to be almost touching the enemy ship in order to be in range. The guns did not wanna fire within the given arcs either unless super close as well.
https://i.imgur.com/BHQQ3uB.png
https://i.imgur.com/iWZlBvD.png
I ran into a compatibility bug that I can't easily troubleshoot because you need to be mid-late game before running into it: Infinite Space Station Flux.
It doesn't happen with every station so that makes the problem even harder to narrow down.
Mod list is as follows:
Ashes of the Domain - The Sleeper 1.2.1
Ashes of the Domain - Virtue of Society 1.0.8
Ashes of the Domain - Vaults of Knowledge 2.0.12
Arma Armatura 3.0.3
Combat Activators 1.3.0
Combat Chatterer 1.14.1
Detailed Combat Results 5.4.0
Domain Explorarium Expansion 0.0.16
ED Shipyards 2.6.5
Emergent Threats 0.5.1
Emergent Threats: IX Revival 0.5.1
Fleet Journal 1.1.1
Hazard Mining Incorporated 0.3.7b
Indies Expansion Pack 0.6
Industrial.Evolution 3.3.e
Interstellar Imperium 2.6.4
LOST_SECTOR 0.6.1d
Larger Zoom Out 1.1.1
LazyLib 2.8b
LunaLib 1.8.4
MagicLib 1.3.11
More Military Missions 0.4.2
Nexerelin 0.11.1b
Random Assortment of Things 2.0.8-Part1
Realistic Combat 2.0.4
Ship/Weapon Pack 1.15.1
SpeedUp 1.0.1
Starship Legends 2.5.1
Underworld 1.8.3
zz GraphicsLib 1.9.0
To my knowledge none of the other mods have anything to do with Station Combat Statistics nor shields otherwise I'd have bit the bullet and done mod Jenga for the next few days and posted which one was conflicting here. As much as I enjoy the mod for its' extended combat range I'll have to be deactivating it for now because getting rid of a faction and its' ships is one thing but I can't be fighting nigh invincible space stations.
Having run into both the infinite station flux bug, and the "sometimes ships don't die when they hit 0 hull" bug, I think I've narrowed it down to incompatibility between this mod and Arma Armatura. This doesn't particularly surprise me, as AA does some real *** to work, and I don't think Realistic Combat likes other people doing *** when it already does ***.
By any chance can I only have the:
-Big map(huge)
-weapon range long(but not that long)
-ships that drift
but without
-weapons dont fire (cause moded)
Using setting in the mod file.
Cross-referencing my modlist with other affected folks, subtracting those that I'm confident work without huge problems, Arma Armatura is the only commonality, and removing Arma Armatura solved those issues quickly. Anything else I can offer?Having run into both the infinite station flux bug, and the "sometimes ships don't die when they hit 0 hull" bug, I think I've narrowed it down to incompatibility between this mod and Arma Armatura. This doesn't particularly surprise me, as AA does some real *** to work, and I don't think Realistic Combat likes other people doing *** when it already does ***.
Please elaborate because I could test to find the problem. Regardless I'll add it to the bug list.
To be fair, the targeting reticule can be so small as to only be the size of a small red circle, and trying to keep track of that whilst manoeuvring your ship, especially with the fluctuating range calculation, it's difficult to even notice if your guns are actually firing or not. Because by the time you glance back at your guns.. your cursor has probably drifted out of the red circle.
Sometimes you also kind of just want to eyeball the shots yourself, you know, shoot from the hip? So making it so you can only shoot at ships if your cursor is in the targeting reticule, and have the ship within the (sometimes very) small targeting range.. can feel... Annoying? Un-intuitive? (... Sometimes you also kind of just want to shoot at the asteroids and ship wreck floating in space around you, target practice!)
This can be particularly annoying for fighting smaller ships, since the range calculation and reticule can change so rapidly as the smaller ship is making manoeuvres that.. it becomes pretty much impossible to shoot yourself, without turning on autofiring.
Being able to just eyeball without restrictions means you could just fill a volume of space infront of the path of the manoeuvring ship and still hope to hit, since you're just making a guess that that is where the ship will be once your shots reach their destination.
You can also see the issue of "Suddenly very short range" for the weapon arcs for like.. PD guns, when they're trying to shoot down missiles and fighters. The range becomes so short when the PD starts to target missiles/fighters, that the guns only start to actually acquire the target and shoot them down when they're like 3/4ths through the total range of the PD. IE, danger close. Which also means that sometimes your PD won't even shoot at fighters and missiles cause it just can't acquire the target, since they're too fast for tracking, and instead is fixated on shooting at a nearby frigate or larger since it can actually target those.
Cross-referencing my modlist with other affected folks, subtracting those that I'm confident work without huge problems, Arma Armatura is the only commonality, and removing Arma Armatura solved those issues quickly. Anything else I can offer?
Happy to help! ^-^Cross-referencing my modlist with other affected folks, subtracting those that I'm confident work without huge problems, Arma Armatura is the only commonality, and removing Arma Armatura solved those issues quickly. Anything else I can offer?
Thanks for your cooperation. Yes! If you can reproduce the steps that lead to the behavior, then I could try to reproduce and study them. First, does it happen every time? Does every station have infinite flux, or only certain kinds of station? Do all kinds of ships not explode when at 0 health, or do only certain kids?
QuoteYou can also see the issue of "Suddenly very short range" for the weapon arcs for like.. PD guns, when they're trying to shoot down missiles and fighters. The range becomes so short when the PD starts to target missiles/fighters, that the guns only start to actually acquire the target and shoot them down when they're like 3/4ths through the total range of the PD. IE, danger close. Which also means that sometimes your PD won't even shoot at fighters and missiles cause it just can't acquire the target, since they're too fast for tracking, and instead is fixated on shooting at a nearby frigate or larger since it can actually target those.
PD isn't targeting missiles? That's not good. Can you reproduce this bug?
Ran into a crash involving an Exo-Tech hullmod from "Random Assortment of things" Which seems to conflict with Realistic combat. Seems to be an issue with the hullmod not being able to apply a skill to the fighters it spawns in.Spoiler197497 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at RealisticCombat.com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.skills.EnergyWeaponTraining$Level1.unapply(EnergyWeaponTraining.java:68)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CharacterStats.unapplyPersonalToShip(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.setCaptain(Unknown Source)
at assortment_of_things.exotech.hullmods.alteration.AutonomousBaysHullmod.applyEff ectsToFighterSpawnedByShip(AutonomousBaysHullmod.kt:64)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.ship.oOOO.C.ÒO0000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.ship.oOOO.C.public(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.ship.oOOO.C.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)[close]
Should I post it there as well?
I have a problem with this mod.
Every time I use it I can't use my main weapons but it can only fire missiles.
Every time that I try to use weapons that it's selected on it doesn't. It also seems that projectile weapons don't work either. Help
So now I found the "damage Bonus High Explosive Projectile" parameter, set the value to 300, the guns began to inflict minimal damage, BUT only rapid-fire, some (large-caliber) guns for 1500 damage still cause 10 times less damage. Why is that?There is a problem, this additional damage also works on energy shields