Are there any? I've tried to squeeze this thing into every size of ship but I haven't found anything that feels justified. Paragon got pretty close, the anti-capital duel damage of quad scatter TL is terrifying, but multi-target environment TL durrbeaming + maneuverability stops it from being realistically useful.In my experience efficiency stopped TL from being useful. Other than that HSA became a niche at best. Support beams have assault weapon range with it while not living up to that category in dps. AI also overestimates range with HSA and usually ends up staring at the enemy all battle long (unless it dies from facetanking the well deserved incoming fire).
If hullmod OP cost was not this high and the effect effect optional per mounts I could imagine hardbeam gravitons for pressing shields, soft phase lances for armour penetration and their joint fire for hull damage on a nimble ship.
...Even without SO if you went with AO you would hit 800 range...You are not allowed to use AO and HSA together. Even if you could, I think the HSA range reduction would probably apply after the AO buff giving only 100 extra range. If you could get 200 extra range, I think that might make HSA more viable, although the massive OP cost of HSA + AO (and probably turret gyros too) is still a huge issue.
..With ITU and AO...
HSA graviton is interesting (probably the best use case for HSA IMO), but it's still pretty expensive in OP to pay for HSA for such low DPS. It doesn't feel like enough to build the entire ship around, but I think 110 kinetic DPS for 75 flux/sec at 600 range is a good weapon. I think most ships wouldn't mind the weapon but the OP cost for what's still essentially a support weapon is a bit too steep. I think maybe wolf might be an interesting use case.Tried HSA Graviton on Wolf, but it was not good enough - too weak. Not noticeably better than trying to drill with Pulse Laser. I was better off without HSA and slowly beaming an enemy frigate to death with 1000 range graviton plus two tactical lasers.
HSA + SO is an interesting idea trying to make the range reduction unimpactful. My main issue with that concept in general is that SO is already a massive OP sink, so the extra OP to equip HSA is a really big issue.
I'd be interested to see actual testing of these builds but my expectations are pretty low tbh. It seems like normal builds would just be better.
HSA also only calls out beam weapons too, which significantly limits the ships your putting it on. Id only seriously consider it on cruiser or capitals that could actively get close enough to negate any beam penalties, but the paragon is a bit too slow, the Ody too much of a broadsider that cutting its range in half looks like it puts it in more danger, and the apogee is a bit too fragile to be getting in the face of a bigger (or any ship with serious firepower really).
Maybe it has a more pronounced effect on fleet-line ships like the Sunder, Eagle or Falcon. They get enough beam weapon mounts to really make use of it.
I don't think I'd try with the Apogee either. It's got really good shields so not actually very fragile, but it's still too slow. The Sunder is fast but fragile, with shield and armor that are not suited for super close-in brawling. The Falcon might work, it's just about fast enough and moderately durable. Possibly the Eagle too, since it has Maneuvering Jets.
I don't think I'd try with the Apogee either. It's got really good shields so not actually very fragile, but it's still too slow. The Sunder is fast but fragile, with shield and armor that are not suited for super close-in brawling. The Falcon might work, it's just about fast enough and moderately durable. Possibly the Eagle too, since it has Maneuvering Jets.
Ive always seen the Apogee as a dedicated long range/support ship. It has the shields to hold up against an attack and back out but it lacks some critical design stuff to allow it to punch up. A large forward-mount energy weapon can do alot but I would rather have eagles and falcons in the front because of how their weapon mounts are layed out.
Yea the Apogee, to me, is best with a Tach Lance, a squall, and a buuunch of shield mods/tank mods. You have your fleet escort it and use it as an anchor
HSA tachyon is 600 range. Only 100/160 less than a Plasma cannonn.You mean 2 TL + HSA? One PC costs more than a TL by itself, but yeah, accounting for HSA you pay more for the TLs. Of course then you need more vents to run the PCs!
The main problem is that you can get two Plasma Cannon for less OP than 2 Tachyon Lance and the TL is generally an inefficient weapon.
That being said it’s probably worth tweaking that build:
1) you’re better off with 1 Xyphos and 1 Wasp. Xyphos is good but two is probably overkill.
2) the ship is hugely over-PD’d. And the PD range is dangerously close to main Gun range. Swap all the front slots for Tactical Lasers (same range as Tach Lances! 1 to 1 dmg ratio! You’ve got a boatload of them)
3) Unstable injector seems a bit much. Maybe it works I am not sure. Generally I don’t have speed issues that would require it but the extra range is very nice.
4) piliums are… probably inefficient. You won’t need them for small ships and you will kill big ships faster with typhoons, harpoons, or breach SRMs
I am also a huge fan of omni shields on an Odyssey but that is maybe preference. All I know is that it makes venting (even skilled venting) far easier
HSA + SO is an interesting idea trying to make the range reduction unimpactful. My main issue with that concept in general is that SO is already a massive OP sink, so the extra OP to equip HSA is a really big issue. I also think that beam weapons are generally low flux/s and DPS, but SO wants the highest DPS weapons possible to take advantage of the extra dissipation, so I think the two hullmods just don't really work together. I would rather just use heavy blasters. Maybe there are some good builds though.Tried HSA + SO combination on Falcon and Eagle, and it seems effective. At first, I tried HSA plus HMGs and chaingun (plus Graviton Beams) without SO, but Eagle was too slow. With SO, Eagle got the speed it needed to close in and kill opponents in SIM duels.
Tried HSA + SO combination on Falcon and Eagle, and it seems effective. At first, I tried HSA plus HMGs and chaingun (plus Graviton Beams) without SO, but Eagle was too slow. With SO, Eagle got the speed it needed to close in and kill opponents in SIM duels.
I kind of feel like HSA could be zero OP and might see use there.
So the fit was HMG, Chaingun, Graviton, HSA, SO?Yes, on loadout. On Eagle, it was 2 HMG, 1 Chaingun, 3 Gravitons, and 5 burst PD. Falcon is one less HMG, Graviton, and burst PD than Eagle. I looked for more ships that can use HSA Graviton aside from Remnant ships that need Automated Ships to use. The SO and HSA Falcon/Eagle loadouts are not great ships like SO Hyperion is. I only tried them to see if HSA is good enough to be useful on them, and it seems so.
Is it better than HMG, Heavy Blaster, SO?
I kind of feel like HSA could be zero OP and might see use there.
Like I mentioned above in the thread, there is some risk of HSA beams starting to step on the roles of already-existing projectile weaponsI do not see that happening. Only four beams with 600 range. Tactical Laser is underpowered, inefficient, and slow at tracking (not good anti-missile with IPDAI). Graviton is the only real gem here, efficient anti-shield even if a bit underpowered compared to projectiles. HIL is basically an energy chaingun (usable by Brilliant). And Tachyon Lance is... phase lance with hard flux and EMP.
My hesitation with that is that its a Tempest with only 2 gravitons for DPS. Does that do better than 1 pulse laser? Its giving up onboard PD, so something like 1 pulse, 1 ion pulser is the competition, and I think its similar OP counts for a lot more DPS and a lot more ion.It does better against some opponents, namely frigates with weak shields or nimble enough to dodge non-beam shots. Yes, giving up PD makes it a bit more dangerous, but so far, the AI Tempest seemed to handle it fine. That was why I called HSA Tempest a frigate hunter after I tried it.
I suspect it's useless in practice. Even the AI is smart enough to armor tank pure kinetic damage.The enemy will take hits from Terminator Drones and maybe any missiles Tempest has. (I used Swarmers because AI does not conserve them, ammo count is fairly high for its size, and short range is not a problem in frigate duels.) Plus, armor tanking will not help weak frigates enough.
Could mount a torp in the missile slot just to let it have something to punch above its class. Terminator drones are pretty well-rounded enough to function as general missiles otherwise.Drones are limited like other missiles thanks to replacement speeds, so another option to use when drones are not online would be handy.
Limited but not exhaustible, which helps alot on a limited weapon platform.Could mount a torp in the missile slot just to let it have something to punch above its class. Terminator drones are pretty well-rounded enough to function as general missiles otherwise.Drones are limited like other missiles thanks to replacement speeds, so another option to use when drones are not online would be handy.
Limited but not exhaustible, which helps alot on a limited weapon platform.Can be practically exhaustible, when rate goes to 30% (and ship is no rate boost). Drones take a long time to respawn compared to other fighters.
To the rest of you: I don't understand your obsession with PD.The most dangerous projectilesHell, all projectiles but two that can be shot down deal HE damage. HE already has a hard counter called shields. What am I missing? PD is counterproductive most of the time since its fire is drawn by random missiles or flares and beam speed is slow in Starsector, and the resultive constant retargeting significantly reduces anti-fighter capabilities which are often the bigger threat or outright the source of incoming missiles. Unless its named Dual Flak or Guardian I don't even consider equipping it anymore with one exception: small mounts sitting right on top of engines nozzles.
To the rest of you: I don't understand your obsession with PD.When I tried older loadouts that worked before the system change to Termination Sequence, my Tempests died more often. When I replaced the weapon in the right mount with heavy burst laser, survivability went up to about pre-Termination Sequence.
Addendum: Tempest has a new system in case anyone missed it.Which means Tempest can no longer rely on drones for PD because the AI will lob the drones at the enemy soon enough. The drones were excellent PD in previous releases, but after Termination Sequence was added, the AI only sees the drones as Harpoon equivalents to launch at the enemy when shields are down. Thus, if player wants PD on Tempests, mounting a small or medium burst laser in one of the mounts is the only feasible option.
Nothing spectacular, but I've had some small amount of success with a HSA Sunder.
Don't particularly like flying it myself, but the AI seems to do okay with it.
Phase Lances in both medium mounts, an Ion Pulser in the large and a single Vulcan on the back.
HSA + SO + Hardened Subsys. + Armoured Weapons.
16 remaining OP into caps.
Why would you go 2X PL +ion instead of 1x TL + ion?Higher efficiency, higher DPS, lower OP, I'd assume. Less EMP, but you've still got the Ion Pulser, so.
Ive seen more success with an autopulse laser w. extended magazine on an SO sunder. 56 shots will tear apart most anything. Shields wont help much, nor will armor and its fast enough to basically be a frigate speed destroyer with cruiser firepower.Why would you go 2X PL +ion instead of 1x TL + ion?Higher efficiency, higher DPS, lower OP, I'd assume. Less EMP, but you've still got the Ion Pulser, so.
Better question from my point of view - once you're SOing a Sunder, why not just mount a Plasma Cannon? You've actually got the flux for it, at that point, and the PC's got very nice stats if you can afford to mount it at all.
Why would you go 2X PL +ion instead of 1x TL + ion?Not having any large energy guns.
I recently found HSA is decent on tempest with graviton + ion beam. Consistent and efficient shield pressure at about the same range as its other weapon options and it has termination sequence for when it needs some punch.Ion beam with 500 range is just a worse ion pulser. Gravitons are at least interesting with HSA though.
It feels like if you are trying to solo big fleets with Zigg, range might be more valuable than in a 1v1, but I don't really enjoy playing that way enough to try it lol.
Ion beam with 500 range is just a worse ion pulser. Gravitons are at least interesting with HSA though.600 range, and the Ion Pulsar is the lowest-accuracy Medium Energy weapon, which you might care about for, like, frigate duels.
Ion beam with 500 range is just a worse ion pulser. Gravitons are at least interesting with HSA though.The point of the ion beam is so they can't drop their shields and take the graviton on their hull, ion pulser isn't consistent enough for that purpose.
It feels like if you are trying to solo big fleets with Zigg, range might be more valuable than in a 1v1, but I don't really enjoy playing that way enough to try it lol.
Ion beam with 500 range is just a worse ion pulser. Gravitons are at least interesting with HSA though.The point of the ion beam is so they can't drop their shields and take the graviton on their hull, ion pulser isn't consistent enough for that purpose.
I haven't yet found a HSA build that was not a shoehorn trying to "just make it usable, for the love of god", where other options weren't simply better. Such as not using HSA and having double the range. Range is far more valuable than flux type. Beams are not consistently dangerous enough that you want to brawl with them either. They're the spaghetti noodles of Starsector. They better be long and there better be a lot of them.
Tacyon Lances out of a Phase Anchor'd Ziggurat may be the highest DPS weapons in the game. I estimate that "real time" that the cooldown of tachyon lances is about 1 second. So their DPS is about 1125 each per weapon.
Tacyon Lances out of a Phase Anchor'd Ziggurat may be the highest DPS weapons in the game. I estimate that "real time" that the cooldown of tachyon lances is about 1 second. So their DPS is about 1125 each per weapon.They've got 500 armor pen, which implies 1k DPS exactly for the duration of the beam.
Tacyon Lances out of a Phase Anchor'd Ziggurat may be the highest DPS weapons in the game. I estimate that "real time" that the cooldown of tachyon lances is about 1 second. So their DPS is about 1125 each per weapon.
Yeah, and the higher the DPS, the less improtant hard flux is, because the enemy will overload before they can passively dissipate anyway.
Do those Paragons and Radiants not have any weapons fitted or do they cost 0 flux to fire?