Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => Mods => Topic started by: Dazs on November 14, 2021, 06:27:18 PM

Title: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.1.2 - 03/27/24
Post by: Dazs on November 14, 2021, 06:27:18 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/uiXpsfj.png)

Hiver Swarm is a non player enemy AI faction designed to be aggressive invaders and can colonize systems. An insectoid race that uses high tech bio-cybernetics to grow their living ships. Their home world is found in deep space and their relations range from inhospitable to hostile for all factions. Their exclusive living hull designs (seen below) allow them to regenerate their hulls in combat and to be tougher made than the average factions' making them a challenge to fight. They use custom made drones, energy pulse weapons and missiles (also seen below) but have been known to use captured Corvus ships.
They are vengeful toward the player and will become hostile on sight, you have been warned.

New game required to have them appear in the sector
Note: see the optional files if you want to have them appear in Nexerelin's Random Core Worlds option(disabled by default)

DOWNLOAD (https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1qU06YXnPXJTxbPrVG5A1EHWiiqyxk7mP)

Requires
Nexerelin (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=9175.0), LazyLib (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=5444.0), MagicLib (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=13718)

Recommended
Ruthless Sector (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15279.0)
Adds Remnant fleets to hyperspace that will intercept Hivers, and you :)

The following briefing contains the known history of the Hivers since they appeared in the sector.

Spoiler
NOTE: This information is cleared for admiralty use and distribution only. If this document has come into your possession outside of protocol 25 then you must destroy this document and report immediately to your unit intelligence officer for enhanced debriefing.

In the year 189, the Core Worlds were surprised by the appearance of a new star system on the comm network. The data received described lush, habitable planets and incredibly productive industries at the very furthest reaches of the sector. The Persean League dispatched a grand trade fleet, along with an official diplomatic mission. By the time the scattered, broken remains of the League's fleet made it back to the orbit of Kazeron, two new systems were broadcasting along with the first. Garbled attempts at communication arrived soon after, and the hostility of the new worlds was made very clear.

Despite attempts by the survivors of the first expedition to warn them, the Hegemony understood this to mean only one thing: AI. A new fleet burned its way to the edge of the sector, designed to both survey the new systems and eradicate their inhabitants. What followed was a months-long fighting retreat from the jump points of Zesketet to a lucky slipstream that ferried a battered contingent of frigates and support ships back to the Core.

Spysats seeded across the new worlds by mercenaries traveling dark told of comm relays and sensor arrays built from the gutted hulk of a Domain mothership. Great hives towering over the land, covered in an unending chitinous swarm. Innumerable species of sapient insectoid, all working together as a multiplanetary eusocial colony of immense scale.

Debate persists as to where the Hivers first originated. Galatia Academy sees their preference for human-habitable worlds and repurposing of Domain-era salvage as evidence of a pre-Collapse terraforming project gone horribly awry. Philip Andrada himself has proclaimed Tunguska Station as proof of alien origin from beyond the sector. Meanwhile, the Church of Galactic Redemption struggles to reconcile the insects with their own human-centric view of creation.

For the moment, the average inhabitant of the Core Worlds does not see the Hivers as much of a threat - they are simply too far away to worry about. For now.
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Peek here for the lineup of ships and weapons in the base mod
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/yVPzkVK.png)

Lineup of the ship weapons
(https://i.imgur.com/ZWZqg3v.png)
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The mod comes with an all mechanical looking alternate ship and weapon pack for players that prefer not to have bugs on their screen

Peek here for an image of all the mechanical replacement ships and installation instructions if you install the optional "Replacement Ships.rar" found in the faction folder
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/EfDsdNT.png)
Included in the RAR is an alternate weapon pack that fits more in line with the replacement ship graphic design
(https://i.imgur.com/qQegC4Q.png)

To install the alternate pack, unpack the Replacement Ships.rar over your Hiver Swarm folder and accept overwrite. This will install both the ship and weapon pack. If you only want one or the other then you would first need to unzip into a temporary folder, delete the subfolders you do not want (data/hulls, data/variants and graphics/ships to delete the ships or data/weapons and graphics/weapons to delete the weapons then re-zip and install as above or just move the folders manually if desired
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Meet the Hivers (portraits)
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/8Suc2Uq.png)
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The mod comes with several optional files that can be enabled before the start of a new game - below are the various instructions also found in the RAR as README
Spoiler
NOTE: for the options that requite editing use Notepad++ or a java complier. If you make changes with standard notepad or some other editor it may mess with the Java code.


The mod comes with two optional files that make Ships and Weapons purchasable and available at the Arms Dealer for players that play as Hivers or just want them at the Arms Dealer.
Spoiler
-Find a file named purchasable_ship_data.csv located in data/hulls - If you delete the current ship_data.csv and rename the optional file ship_data.csv it will make all Hiver ships purchasable and available at the Arms Dealer
-Find a file named purchasable_weapon.data_csv located in data/weapons If you delete the current weapon_data.csv and rename the optional file weapon_data.csv it will make all Hiver weapons purchasable and available at the Arms Dealer
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To disable their blueprints from dropping in salvage or as loot

Spoiler
-Find a file named special_items.csv located in data/campaign and delete, rename or move it - select the file named nodrop_special_items.csv in the folder, rename it to special_items.csv and you are good to go
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The mod comes with three optional files that make Ships, wings and Weapons unrecoverable for players that prefer not to have Hiver Technology in their fleets

Spoiler
-Find a file named unrecoverable_ship_data.csv located in data/hulls - If you delete the current ship_data.csv and rename the optional file ship_data.csv it will make all Hiver ships and their BP unrecoverable
-Find a file named unrecoverable_weapon.data_csv located in data/weapons. If you delete the current weapon_data.csv and rename the optional file weapon_data.csv it will make all Hiver weapons unrecoverable
-Find a file named unrecoverable_wings.data_csv located in data/hulls. If you delete the current wing_data.csv and rename the optional file (unrecoverable_wing.data_csv) to wing_data.csv it will make all Hiver wings unrecovera
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The mod comes with an optional file that lowers weapon prices to base vanilla levels. Good for players who do not want high value loot and/or expensive manufacturing costs

Spoiler
-Find a file named vanilla_weapon.data_csv located in data/weapons. If you delete the current weapon_data.csv and rename the optional file weapon_data.csv it will make all Hiver weapons base value set to vanilla standard
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Instructions to make them a playable faction

Spoiler
As stated earlier by default the Hiver faction is unplayable but if you follow these steps you will be able to play as a Hiver with a fully functional market. You will be on good standing with the Hivers however the faction itself will remain enemies with all other factions. As the player you will have some factions that are neutral to favorable as well as several enemies. Each step is modular and it is up to you what level of functionality you would like. For example. if you just want to flag them as playable so they show up on random core world mode but want them still hidden on the intel tab and don't care for the portraits being used then just enable the first change.

From the mods tab in you Starsector folder go to Hiver Swarm\data\config\exerelinfactionConfig\HIVER.json and open it with your editor. Navigate to line 3 "startingFaction":false and set it to true, and save. Now go to Hiver Swarm\data\campaign and open rules.csv and delete lines 27-31 see below spoiler for the lines to delete if you are unsure:

Spoiler
hiver_cmsn_askForCommissionOpt_disable,PopulateOptions,"$isPerson
Nex_Commission personCanGiveCommission
!Nex_Commission hasFactionCommission
$faction.id == HIVER","SetEnabled cmsn_askCommission false
SetTooltip cmsn_askCommission ""The Hivers do not take in outsiders.""",,,
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To enable the Hiver faction to show on the intel tab: Go to Hiver Swarm\data\world\factions\HIVER.faction and open it with your editor on line 14 you will see "showInIntelTab":false,  change the false, to true, and save the file.

Follow the instructions on how to make their ships and weapons purchasable (above)

Lastly to enable the Hiver playable portraits shown below when you make a new character: Go to Hiver Swarm\data\world\factions\ - now the tricky part, you will see a file named xxplayer.faction - rename that to player.faction - Sorry to make it so difficult :)
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Instructions to manually adjust the difficulty level of the mod

Spoiler
There are a couple different ways to manually modify the mod:

Go into the mod folder data\config\exerelinFactionConfg and open a file called HIVER.json with an editor. If you do not have one you can download notepad++ it is free and easy to use and automatically recognizes Java code.
Once you have that file open and ready for editing, navigate to:
   Line 21 "invasionPointMult":1.25 and lower the number to lessen their invasion fleets. If set to 0 it will disable their invasions all together.
   Line 58 "colonyExpeditionChance":1.75 determines their chance to sending a colony mission. Lower it and they will be less likely to be picked by Nexerelin to start a colony.

You can also open data\world\factions and open HIVER.faction the same way:
At lines 259-261 the composition of their fleets are set to max so lower those 5's and it will effect the strength of their fleets and officers.
At line 264 "aggression":5, determines how aggressive the faction will be in invasions and expansion and 5 is the maximum. Lower that and they will be less aggressive.
At line 327 "canBombard":true, enables their ability to saturation bomb, set that to false and they will no longer.

If you feel uncomfortable making these changes manually I included an optional ZIP in the main folder called Vplus.zip that has preconfigured settings for a vanilla plus gameplay with few faction mods.
Just extract Vplus.zip into the mods folder and overwrite the main files.
   -The files in Vplus.zip lower their aggression, halves the invasion and colony fleet frequency, lowers their officer & ship quality, the number and size of ships in a fleet, and turns off saturation bombing.
NOTE: If you want to revert back to the base settings you can either make backups for those files first or you could just reinstall the mod.

Lastly, there is sadly no way to specifically delay Hiver invasions but before you start a new game you can go to the "mod settings" button that LunaLib adds on the top left of the game menu.
Scroll down to the Nexerelin button, select the "fleet and battles" tab and look for an option "invasion grade period". The default is set to 90 which equates to 90 in game days until any invasions occur.
You can use that slide bar on the right and increase it up to 1825 days which is 5 years. Enter the # of days you feel you need to prepare before invasions occur.
NOTE: this will effect ALL faction invasions, not just Hivers. For example, if you set it to say 365 days it will delay ALL faction invasions for 1 in-game year after game start.
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Instructions to enable them to appear in Nexerelin's random core world setting
Spoiler
When you start a new game and get to the screen to enable random core worlds, go to option 4)faction settings then 1)Enable/disable factions. A screen will appear on the right and depending on how may faction mods you have installed you may have to scroll down but look for HIVER. It will be disabled by default, just press the Enabled button and go back. The game will remember this setting for this game only and you will need to do this each time you start a new RCW game.

You can enable them for RCW permanently but be aware this will also make them a starting faction so do not do this in a normal Corvus sector game.
From the mods tab in you Starsector folder go to Hiver Swarm\data\config\exerelinfactionConfig\HIVER.json and open it with your editor. Navigate to line 3 "startingFaction":false and set it to true, and save.

A note about adding Hiver Swarm to your Nexerelin game that has Random Core Worlds enabled:
I do not recommend enabling them in RCW because Hivers may be a threat in the early game but due to a lack of trading partners, random planet/placement negatively affecting the Hiver economy, and everyone being at war with them basically permanently, the Hiver faction will become starved of resources, begin to lose worlds and not be much of a threat to anyone. On the positive side, it makes them a source of easy to obtain valuable salvage and some early game XP.
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Peek here for spoilers on their tactics - no really, do not read unless you do not want to figuring out how to face them yourself
Spoiler
Hiver ships are high tech in nature with good shields, heavy armor and regenerating hulls. Their weapons do general damage with no bonuses to shields armor or hull but they swarm targets and the accumulative damage makes short work of weaker or lone enemies. Their smaller ships regenerate much faster than the larger ones and will wolfpack until they take about half damage then fly away to self repair while the larger ships keep you occupied. Also, their fleets will swarm if you attack a fleet in their sector and there is another fleet nearby. Approach fighting them tactically with a fleet that can handle these threats. I do not recommend you stick around for too long, take your salvage and run to come back repaired.

Update: 09/20/22 found this on reddit and it is great advice for those who are struggling:

By Candelestine on reddit

Yeah they'll take over your sector, you have to actively beat them back if you put them in. They're a straight-up villain faction, not balanced against the others at all.

Their weapons in particular average under .5 flux/dmg efficiency, so their sustained firepower is pretty unrivalled. Their torpedos are also broken as hell, regenerating torpedos for 5 ordinance pts is just ***. Put five on an Eradicator and laugh at everything.

They are beatable though. High armor strats work well, and DO NOT SKIMP on pd. You gotta crank that *** so you can stop their torpedoes, which is mostly how they get through armor.

Their drones are also extremely deadly, if you see a swarm coming at you, treat it like a proper battlegroup of ships, do not treat it like normal carrier wings. They will wreck you.

On the whole they're on par with Remnants, imo Remnants are actually a touch harder, but they're certainly beatable if you strategize around their strengths and weaknesses.

Oh yeah, weaknesses. Don't know if you noticed, but their ships are pretty slow. All of them. High turn rates though, they spin around quick. But top speed? Mediocre at best.
 
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Why oh why?
Spoiler
My inspiration for this mod started when I was selecting ships for my faction mod, Junk Yard Dogs and came across these great sprites on Spiral Arms II. I was originally going to make them a sub-feature in JYD with a mini lore of them being found derelict ships from an unknown race while mining in deep space. The more I spent refining that mod, which led to time spent on my second mod Ore Refinery, the idea laid on the scrap floor. Well I am also a huge fan of Kerebos production's Sword of the Stars game series and it hit me to make them an enemy faction based on the Hiver faction in that game. Their lore and ship setups are loosely based on those Hivers but this is a Starsector version confined to the rules here (sorry no gate tech).

I made the mod nonplayer because the ships are overpowered compared to standard. They are not as difficult as Remnant Ordo fleets but a mid game challenge for sure. Their ships are capturable but I did set a chance for them to shatter. I do have the bare bones structure to make them playable still in the mod so I could test them so if you really want to you could follow the instructions above and make it playable but that is not in the scope of my release idea.
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Credits
Spoiler
Alex for making this wonderful game!
Dandilion, Tecris, Xenoargh, HELMUT and Protonus for allowing dreamers with no art skill to use these sprites on Spiral Arms. (which I shamelessly bashed and re-colored for a consistent look)
Portraits used for the Hivers in game are from SWOTS, permission was given to non-profit fan made mods for that game.
Vayra for her modding tutorial that helped so much as well as the guide makers on discord.
The MutableShipStatsAPI page (Alex again I assume) giving me the inspiration to use getHullRepairRatePercentPerSecond on the Hiver ships.
Ty to the Beta Testers / Suggesters: 6chad.noirlee9, Deageon, Arthur_The_Ok, MapleDaddy__ TTV, grinningsphinx
A huge TY to Hyperion505 for supplying several high res versions of Spiral Arms sprites
An extra large thank you to HuginBlar for spending dozens of hours collaborating on ideas and sprite overhauls
A cheer to KMS who helped me with the Hiver lore and wrote the briefing on the forum page
Trylobot and Deathfly for the ship and weapon editor that allows a clueless ape like me to code.
Multiple thank you notes located in the changelog to all the people who have helped me along the way - thank you!
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If you enjoy my content, please consider buying me a coffee to keep me going! :) on Ko-Fi (https://ko-fi.com/dazs825110)!
(https://i.imgur.com/nYXN58D.png) (https://ko-fi.com/dazs825110)

Current Changelog

v1.1.2 - Save compatible with v1.11
   -Changed the numbering system for the mod versions going forward using the standard decimal format - example this update would have been 1.12 and is now 1.1.2
   -Added instructions on how to change the difficulty level of the mod to the README file and Forum OP that outlines all the optionals
   -Added Sundog's Ruthless Sector mod as a recommendation on the forum OP since it adds Remnant fleets in hyperspace that will intercept Hiver invasion fleets, and you :)
   -Added no_drop and no_sell tags in unrecoverable_ship_data for the Caelifera, Scarabaeidae, Gangis and Creatonotos -TY Joejoemyo for noting my oopsie :)
   -Added a new optional file to make wings unrecoverable - Instructions to enable it is in the README and forum OP - TY Joejoemyo for the idea
   -Added instructions to the README and Forum OP on how to manually adjust the difficulty level of the mod
   -Added a ZIP with pre-configured setting files that are intended for a more vanilla plus playthrough with few mods enabled for players who do not want to do the above manual adjustments - instructions in the README
      -The files in the ZIP lower their aggression, halves the invasion and colony fleet frequency, lowers their officer & ship quality, the number and size of ships in a fleet, and turns off saturation bombing
   -Added instructions to the README and Forum OP on how to delay invasions using the LunaLib mod settings for Nexerelin on the game menu - Note, effects ALL faction invasions      
   -Updated the version checker to the latest version of Starsector
   -Updated the replacement ships ZIP to the current version of the mod (1.1.2)
   
Past Changelogs
Spoiler
v1.11 - Save compatible with v1.10
   -Increased the max flux by 50 and flux regen by 100 on the Princess - Noticed it was struggling to maintain fire while watching Butter Baronet's videos
   -Increased the range of the Ommatidia to 200 - Though mainly a credit reward trophy weapon it was not working on some ships due to boundary lines
   -Renamed the Replacement Ships Zip to the current mod version (1.11) - Sorry for any confusion, I missed that last time in 1.10
   -Updated to 0.97a

v1.10 - Save compatible with v1.09
   -Changed all Hiver tankers and freighters to civilian hulls - They will not be deployed in combat over military ships now - TY Uther Phobos for making the point
   -Widened the boundary lines on the Calopteryx and Carabidae - Fixing an issue that could case a crash in rare instances
   -Adjusted the default ship roles of several ships - This effects a ship's chance to spawn in a formed fleet and should field a better mix
   -Increased the range of the Medium Rizokis Laser to match the range of the light - They are generally used in conjunction on the variants

v1.09 -Save compatible with v1.08c
   -Updated the working version to RC-10
   -Renamed the asteroid fields in Zesketet -TY KDR_11k for noticing and letting me know I left placeholders
   -Added the Fragmentation line of weapons to the alternate pack -TY Zalpha for letting me know
   -Widened the shield arc and boundary lines on the Scarabaeidae -TY NaitNait for informing me
   -Widened the shield arc and boundary lines on the Scarabaeidae Alternate - TY Kreo for providing screenshots
   -Changed the version of the alternate pack to match the current version of the mod
   -Went through every ship in the alternate pack and redefined the boundary lines to be more detailed - Fixing my previous sloppy work, sorry about that
   -Went through every ship in the main pack and fixed some issues with the boundary lines, cantering and shield arcs - details matter in an investigation :)
   -Fixed an issue with the alternate Meloidae loading the incorrect graphic
   -Centered the mounts on the Snipper - noticed they were misaligned when I was fixing boundary issues
   -Changed the verbiage of the README to clarify which files are the optional files - Ty Richared for sticking with it until we drilled it down
   -Changed the compression of the mod and the "Replacement Ships" file from RAR to Zip - A popular request that I received for my other mods and it is a more widely used format

v1.08c -Save game compatible with v1.08b
   -Updated the forum OP and in the RAR README file with instructions on how to make them appear in the sector when random core worlds is enabled - TY eidolad for the idea
   -Added the required libs for the mod to show in the mod menu - Ty KDR_11k for letting me know I oopsied that :)
   -Added an optional file that lowers weapon prices to base vanilla levels - Good for players who do not want high value loot and/or expensive manufacturing costs
   -Updated the RAR README and forum OP with instructions on how to activate the new optional file - TY NasaBrindle and KDR_11k for inspiring the idea

v1.08b - Not save compatible with prior versions
   -Added a blacklist for stelnet that prevents Hiver ships and weapons showing up - Jaghaimo is working on a commodities blacklist and I will add to it once released
   -Updated the mod to work with 0.96a   

v1.08a -Just a quick hotfix for a potential issue, Save game compatible with 1.08
   -Changed a couple ships that had the Ommatidia (eyeball) weapon set to hidden to turret/hard point - Ty ruddygreat for letting me know it could cause a problem
   -Added two Ommatidia to the Lucanidae for symmetry with the ship image

v 1.08 - Save game compatible but if you have a captured Hiver logistics ships with Militarized Subsystems on it you want to remove it before installing or it may get wonky
   -Changed the percent Hivers will use logistics ships as part of their overall fleets - I've noted an overabundance of tankers and freighters - ty mllhild for the heads up
   -Changed supplies/rec and supplies/mo form 14 to 24 on the Cerambycidae and the Scarabaeidae -  14 was higher than an Atlas but they are beefier
   -Raised the fleet points of all Hiver ships by 10% - Correctly calculates their strength when used in AI vs AI battles based on their stats/loadouts vs vanilla ships
   -Removed the block on Hiver patrols remembering patrol data - Makes their home systems a little more dangerous
   -Reduced the value of the Ommatidia weapon by 25% - received numerous complaints that even though it is a trophy it was still too high a value
   -Removed the civilian tag from all logistics ships to give them more teeth - Hivers are a militant empire it makes sense lore wise that everything they do is martially focused - Ty mllhild for the suggestion
   -Replaced the ship and alternate ship images on the forum with a larger format - you no longer need a magnifying glass to see them in all their glory
   -Re-arranged the forum page and organized subsections under spoilers for easier navigation between the various mod optional features

v1.07 -Save game compatible but if you started a new game with 1.06 then a new 1.07 game required if you want them to invade, sorry folks I made a boo boo
   -Added the built in mod Delicate Machinery to all Hiver phase ships - It is pretty standard for phase ships and gives them a bit of a nerf
   -Raised the deployment points and supplies used per month on the Crabby and the Eyes - when going over the phase ships they were a little low
   -Raised the phase cost and upkeep on all Hiver phase ships - Reduces the time they can stay in phase and heal
   -Raised the fleet costs of all the Hiver Phase ships - They will be less used in their their fleet deployment - TY Madbadger2 for helping balance the phase ships
   -Lowered the chance of Hiver AI fleets having combat freighters instead of combat ships
   -Greatly reduced the price of the small Hiver weapons - Still higher than Vanilla but this will balance the "payout" when looting since they are the most frequent drops
   -Fixed a mistake with the naming of the alternate ship pack RAR - I forgot to change it from 1.05 to 1.06 last update, it is now correct at 1.07
   -Fixed a mistake on the Princess alternate - Accidently placed a small in the medium slot and vice versa - TY Bloodbath for noticing it and letting me know
   -Added a method and instructions on how to make their blueprints not lootable as salvage to the instructions on the forum and in the README - Ty Volsungare for giving me the idea
   -Reverted the following changes made in 1.06 due to some unforeseen consequences, sorry:
      -By taking them off the market it gutted their economy and essentially pulled their teeth, apparently they could not trade with each other to afford invasion fleets
         -Initial Hiver markets no longer show up on the StelNet commodity market
         -Initial Hiver planets no longer initially show as owned on the sector map
         -Initial Hiver planets and stations are no longer the target of vanilla quests
   -Deleted the instructions on the forum OP and in the README for re-enabling their markets since this update does that by default - again sorry for the hassle

V1.06 - v1.05 save game compatible but some changes (marked) require a new game to take effect
   -Fixed a issue with the old weapon BP still being available - when I divided them up I forgot to delete the original that had them all together
   -Added mining stats to the Hiver frag beam weapons
   -Added mining stats and salvage gantries to the following ships: Carabidae, Burrower, Weevil, Chalcosoma, Lucanidae, Chinavia, and Viridula
   -Added the above ships to the list of randomly picked ships to add to a mining fleet - TY mllhild for pointing out that they lacking any mining features
   -Added an additional line to the above ship and weapon descriptions indicating that they serve as mining assets
   -Added several ships to the SCY amity blacklist - I never updated it as I added ships to the mod, woops
   -Added all of the Secrets of the Frontier factions to the list of factions in the HIVER_gen java file that are set to Vengeful - mllhild made a good point that they needed to be added
   -Added integration with presidentmattdamon's Take No Prisoners mod - Lowered the chance of capturing a Hiver officer and they will now send a vengeance fleet if you do
   -Changed the flag to "punitiveExpeditionData" "vsFreePort" from false to true - yea they really don't like anything Corvus do they?
   -Changed the stations used by Hiver planets from low/midline to high tech - I initially had them use ballistics but later decided to go full high tech but forgot to change that - Ty WENth100 for noting it- New game only
   -Changed the descriptions for the Hiver planets and made them more lore friendly - TY Cgoober for calling out my lazyness :)
   -Increased the size of Hiver Nexerelin vengeance fleets dispatched and the the length of time they spend searching to 2x - They now love you long time :)
   -Added the new weapon BP's to a player's starting inventory if they use the optional file(s) to make them playable and start as them - New game only
   -Initial Hiver markets no longer show up on the StelNet commodity market - Numerous requests and finally untangled it -Thanks to Histidine, Alex, Dalton and Lukas04 for helping me figure it out - New game only
   -Initial Hiver planets no longer initially show as owned on the sector map - They will show when discovered by the player same as others - New game only
   -Initial Hiver planets and stations are no longer the target of vanilla quests - Note: this and the above two notes do not effect planets that Hivers conquer - Ty to Madbadger2 for being a sounding board and keeping me sane - New game only
   -Added an additional optional file and updated the instructions in the README file and on the forum OP that would revert the above three changes for players who want to see their markets
   -Added a note to the instructions in the README file and on the forum OP regarding the optional BP only works when installed before a new game start
   -Fixed an error with the optional weapon no-drop file - TY Volsungare for noticing it and letting me know

v1.05 - v1.04b save game compatible
   -Corrected a mistake with the Calopteryx requiring 58 DP to deploy and is now 38 as intended - TY Paragon Bane for brining it to my attention
   -Changed the description of the Eyes - TY st0mpa for noticing that I had not changed the text when last modified it from a capital ship to a cruiser
   -Added descriptions to the asteroid fields in Zesketet - TY Wojmistrz for noticing they were missing and letting me know
   -Added the Phase Field hull mod to the Crabby and Eyes - TY st0mpa for let me know  - now they can better sneaky sneak!
   -Added the hint "HIDE_IN_CODEX" to the Chalcosoma and Cerambycidae - must have missed that when I added then last patch oopsie
   -Fixed three mistakes in the Replacement Ships RAR and it will now work correctly for all ships - TY Bloodbath for noticing it and helping me correct the errors
   -Added two new requested phase ships:
      -Creatonotos - Phase Capital - A terrifying sight to behold as it phases in and out of reality. Imbedded powerful energy emitters can devastate it's enemies before needing to phase out to recover.
      -Gangis - Phase Frigate - Able to sneak into enemy formations and phase into reality to emit a powerful EMP burst and unload it's energy weapons on it's disabled prey.
   -Increased the deployment cost of the Mantis battleship from 12 to 18 - was little too low for it's loadout
   -Added both versions (main/replacement) of the two new ships to their respective all ships images on the forum OP
   -Added a direct download link to the Version file that mod managers can use to auto-update - Ty Timid for showing me how
   -Added a direct download link to the forum d/l link that bypasses the google drive preview - one less step to get to the good stuff :)

v1.04b - Just a minor tweak - v1.04a save game compatible
   -Added optional ship and weapon csv for players who would like them to be purchasable and available at the Arms Dealer - TY herkul121 for letting me know
   -Updated the instructions on the forum OP and in the README to include how to activate the above option

v1.04a - Just a quick oopsie hotfix - v1.04 save game compatible
   -Fixed the Swimmer's engine exhaust being misaligned - Noticed when I captured one and decided to go through all the ships for similar errors:
      -Widened the boundary lines on the Aphid, Calopteryx, Gnawler, Katydid, and Snipper
      -Better aligned the engine exhaust on the Aphid, and Scorpifly
      -Weapon placement alignment on the Caelifera, and Silverfish
      -Centered the shield on the Cerambycidae, Ceruchus,and Moth
   -Fixed an issue with the weapon BP not working correctly - Ty Ensign vjhc for taking the time to help diagnose it, you're a captain in my book :)

v1.04 - 1.03 save game compatible
   -Lowered the cost of all Hiver weapons by 50% - TY alaricdragon for noting that the risk/reward for loot as a total salvage was still too high on the reward end
   -Increased the range on the Ommatidia from 80 to 100 and the damage from 1 to 2 - More of a sellable trophy than a weapon but with the price drop I buffed it a little
   -Starting with the new lowered prices as the base, I increased the cost spread between small medium and large weapons -TY steve1592 for making the case
   -Added the tags "no_dealer, no_sell" to all Hiver ships and weapons to prevent them from showing up under the Arms Dealer - TY Paragon Bane for pointing this out
   -Changed the hostilityImpactOnGrowth flag from false to true - Yes let the hate flow through you
   -Removed Hiver weapons from the Industrial Evolution blacklist - Forgot to remove it when I made the BP learnable - Ty vjhc for pointing it out
   -Added a README file in the RAR that details how to activate all the optional files included
   -An apology to the players who asked for Hiver commodities to be omitted from Stelnet - Spent several hours and asked multiple people to no avail, hopefully next update

v1.03 -Sort of save game compatible - Your 1.02 game will load and work but a new game start is needed to load the faction relation code changes
   -Replaced the following Hiver ships with organic looking versions for the default lineup:
   - Beetle, Caelifera, Catcher, Cerambycidae, Ceruchu, Chalcosoma, Cleridae, Crabby, Emperor, Eyes, Deathfly, Hornet, Lucanidae, Moth, Prince, Scarabaeus, Scarab, Silverfish, Snipper, Viridan, Viridula 
   -Replaced all the Hiver drones with organic looking versions for the default lineup
   -Replaced all the Hiver portraits with higher resolution versions and added two new ones (One male and One female)
   -Replaced the Hiver BP with a cleaner version
   -Big Thanks to HuginBlar for your collaboration and team work in making these new sprites over the last two months and for all your work!   
   -Widened the firing arcs of the Prince's medium turret mounts from 60 degrees to 75 degrees to accommodate the new placement on the updated sprite
   -Re-sized the Lucanidae to be more SS compatible - The original sprite I used from Spiral arms was huge and it was a good time to address it
   -Added a second Ommatidia mount to the Eyes for symmetry on the updated sprite
   -Slightly darkened the details on the Princess to be more in line with the other ships - essentially it doesn't shine as much now
   -Changed the settings for Hiver relations using the code generously donated by Harmful Mechanic - essentially if a faction ever reaches neutral with them it will automatedly reset to vengeful- TY HM!
   -Deleted some unneeded code that could potentially cause a small memory leak - old code from a previous version that I hadn't removed in 1.02 my bad sorry   
   -Added a line of Fragmentary damage beams (sm,med.lg) to the Hiver Lineup of weapons - Ty steve1592 for the suggestion noting they lacked a frag weapon
   -Broke down the Hiver weapon BP into four different packages by missile, pulse, plasma and beam - Makes their full weapon lineup harder to obtain
   -Added the new beam weapons as well as the Ommatidia weapon to the prism freeport blacklist
   -Added two new light beams to the Allsup interceptor and one to the Katydid fighter
   -Added a new drone, the Meloidae - It is armed with one medium and two small beams it is specialized for hull depletion
   -Added a new destroyer sized drone carrier, the Scarabaeidae - Carries four of the new Meloidae and is designed as a close in ship with one large, two medium and two small beams
   -Designed mechanical analogs of both the new drone and the drone carrier for the replacement ships RAR
   -Renamed the Beetle to the Mantis - the old sprite was oversized and the new one doesn't look like a beetle at all :)
   -Added the new drone and the drone carrier to the Prism freeport blacklist
   -Updated some ship descriptions and added descriptions for the new ships/drone and weapons
   -Updated the ship images for both the standard layout as well as the Mechanical version on the forum OP - take a peek!
   -Added the portraits to a spoiler linked image to the forum OP - I am so happy with the higher resolution versions I wanted to show them :)
   -Added a Comsec Declassified lore entry to the forum main page - TY KMS so much for writing it!

v1.02
   -Lowered the armor of the phase ships Eyes and Crabby by 20% - deathkahhn on discord made a good point that it was tedious to fight them
   -Finished a complete mechanical ship alternate pack RAR - A huge TY to by Sparranova on discord for submitting base and part sprites which were a great help!
   -Added a weapon sprite alternate pack for players who want a complete aesthetic included in the replacement RAR - TY again to Sparranova for their work!
   -Added UAF to the list of mod factions Hivers are set hostile to - Saw some complaints on discord regarding the relations
   -Re-made the Alternate Pack image found on the forum OP with the new sprites and added the new weapon pack image as well

v1.01 - 1.0 save game compatible - Note: If you have any captured Hiver ships that have been replaced in this patch in your fleet they may need to be re-armed
   -Raised the energy per shot of the Svreraxx Bio-Plasmic Catapult from 192 to 230 as a balance change - TY sevhern for noting it's efficiency was too OP
   -Increased the supplies/rec and supplies/mo of every Hiver ship by 15% (rounded up) - This will lower the amount of ships Hivers can deploy at once
   -Increased the fleet points on the Emperor from 55 to 60 - Being one of the strongest ships in the game it deserved a little more
   -Added a file named unrecoverable_ship_data.csv located in data/hulls - If you delete the current ship_data.csv and rename the new file ship_data.csv it will make all Hiver ships and their BP unrecoverable
   -Added a file named unrecoverable_weapon.data_csv located in data/weapons If you delete the current weapon_data.csv and rename the new file weapon_data.csv it will make all Hiver weapons unrecoverable
   -NOTE: If you retain the current ship_data but use the new weapon_data then weapons can still be recovered from wrecks and salvaged wrecks but not as salvage themselves
   -Increased the OP of the Catcher by 5 and changed one of the small mounts to medium
   -Increased the OP of the Princess by 20 and changed four of the small mounts to medium and added 2 Ommatidia mounts to the front
   -Replaced the sprites and data files for the Aphid, Beetle, Burrower, Carabidae, catcher, Chinavia, Chrysopidae, Lacewing, Mantabee, Princess, Silverfish, Swallowtail, Swimmer, Viridan and Weevil ships
   -Replaced the sprites and data files for the Allsup, Flyter, Gnawler, Katydid and Scorpifly drones
   -*A HUGE TY to Hyperion505 for supplying the high res versions of the above Spiral Arms sprites*
   -Replaced the vanilla weapons on the Flyter with Hiver ones - Made that drone before I made the hiver weapons
   -Halved the value of all Hiver weapons - Island makes a good point that individually it was a reward but as a whole loot haul it was a bit much
   -Increased the size and explosion radius of the Xrrymm-type Hive and Launcher Istkrrtc-type Hive missile sprites to be more visually hefty - Island made the point that they looked like pop-guns
   -Widened the sprites for the Xrrymm-type Hive and the Istkrrtc-type Hive in order to fit the larger missiles made for this patch
   -Hiver Xrrymm-type Hive and Istkrrtc-type Hive now properly render and fire all their missiles - Been meaning to fix that   
   -Lowered the hit points of the Scorpifly from 1800 to 1500 and armor from 450 to 400 - Island made the point that it was on par with a destroyer and this puts it just above the Flyter
   -Increased the range of the Ommatidia from 60 to 80 - gives it an actual chance to engage fighters
   -Added a new light cruiser, the Caelifera - the Hiver fleet lacked a light cruiser and with the increase in overall fleet supply use it fills a niche role
   -Added the new ship and all updated sprites to their respective images on the forum OP

v1.0 -.99 save game compatible - Note: IF you have a captured Cleradie in your fleet it may need to be re-armed
   -Increased the deployment and supply use of the Burrower from 3 to 23 - typo on my part TY Bonisagus for noting it
   -Increased the deployment and supply use of the Viridan and Crabby to 9 - noticed they were set low as well
   -Fixed an error with the Cleradie using the Crabby variant as it's standard loadout - Must have been an issue for a bit sorry about that
   -Replaced the Ommatidia weapon mounts on all Hiver ships that had them - there was an issue with looting them - TY Bonisagus for pointing that out
   -Added a missing weapon on the Calopteryx standard loadout - noticed it when I was replacing the Ommatidia
   -Fixed a misaligned turret mount on the Hornet - It was facing backward instead of forward - idk
   -Added Ommatidia mounts to the Moth - If a Hiver needed eyes it was this one :)
   -Added Ommatidia mounts to the Viridula - For the cuteness factor
   -Did a spelling, grammar and punctuation check on all Hiver asset descriptions - woo wee it needed that
   -Added the Ommatidia to the list of Hiver "knownweapons" - in case that was causing an issue since it is not on their BP
   -Updated the replacement ship pack RAR to 1.0 - you will need to re-install it if you are using it
   -Added the Ommatidia to the list of blacklisted weapons from from Amity's Freeport discount trader is you are using the SCY mod - Love SCY but no eyes for them!

0.99 -0.98 save compatible - some changes will only take effect in a new game
   -Fixed an error with the Queen's Tech being BioTech instead of Bio Tech - TY alaricdragon for noticing it
   -Reduced the range and damage of the Ezkepren-type Hive torpedo -received numerous concerns that the Gnawler was too OP and making the game less fun
   -Added additional tips on how to fight Hivers under the spoiler tags on the main page - TY to Candelestine for their writeup on reddit
   -Reduced the turn rate on the Emperor from 40 to 30 - Saw a discussion on Discord that made some good points regarding its size vs nimbleness
   -Touched up the graphic on the Princess giving her darker green highlights and tinting the weapon mounts - Sort of stood out how bright she was
   -Touched up the graphic for the Chinavia, Lacewing, Viridan, Viridula, Silverfish and Aphid by darkening the tint and sharpening the lines - Same reason as above   
   -Added a new EMP "weapon", Hiver Eyes - They are mounted on each bio-metal style Hiver ship - More of a high value sellable than actual useable weapon, also adds a little cosmic horror :)
   -Replaced the Pristine Nanoforges with Corrupted on all Hiver planets with the exception of their capital, Vilani  - Should satisfy the multiple requests to tone down their fleet production
      -Note: The above change does not effect fleets that are already in game so will not be as noticeable in a saved game
   -Added the UNBOARDABLE AI tag to the Beetle so they cannot be recovered like the Emperor and Queen - I felt that it too was a tad too OP to put in player hands
   -Added the no_drop UI tag to the Beetle, Emperor and Queen to prevent their blueprint from dropping during exploration missions
   -Updated the folder used in the replacement ships RAR to match the current folder 0.99 - Should have been doing that since 0.95, my bad
   -Remade the forum OP ship image to reflect the graphic changes made this update
   -Made a separate image on the forum OP that shows the lineup if you use the replacement images - Again something I should have done a bit ago, ah well better late than never
   -Added a message on the forum OP that the mod is not recommend for use in Nexerelin's Random Core Worlds option - It really weakens them and defeats their purpose

0.98 - *Should* be save game compatible - *I did not have an old save to test against
   -Increased the price for the Swallowtail and Princess Heavy Cruisers to be inline with other Hiver Ships - Good catch by 5ColouredWalker - TY
   -Changed the Tech Tree that Hiver ships and weapons are listed under from High Tech to Bio Tech
   -Removed the shields on every Hiver drone and increased their HP by 20% - I believe this will address OP complaints while interacting with their bio hull better - this *should* bring them in line and more manageable
   -Added a flag to the Emperor and the Queen to be UNBOARDABLE, meaning that they cannot be recovered - These two are OP living ships and are meant only for Hivers
   -Raised the price of every Hiver weapon by 100k to reflect tier above average status - Ty gentuff for the suggestion
   -Increased the probability that a Hiver ship will explode to 90% - *Should* make their ships, based on this stat, to be in the worst shape if recovered
   -Lowered the combat readiness recovery per day by 1 for each hiver ship - slows down their recovery if they are fleeing a battle, doing a hard burn or coming out of a storm
   -Added a missing description for the Krrakt Thermionic Exiter weapon
   -Added a missing description for the Cerambycidae capital tanker
   -Added a new ship system Bio Energy Focus - Similar to High Energy focus but longer lasting and more charges for a higher flux use plus it glows a nice Hiver green when activated :)

0.97 - Save Compatible with 0.96 however, The Rizdet system change will only take effect on a new game start
   -Moved the Rizdet star system to be clustered with the other two Hiver systems - due to the aggression fixes in the last patch it no longer needs to be so far away
   -Increased the flux per shot of every Hiver energy weapon by 10% - Ty derrzzedd for making the case their weapons were a bit too OP
   -Decreased the ammo count of the Istkrrtc-type Hive by 3 and the Xrrymm-type Hive by 4 - A needed fix for their damage
   -Reduced the speed of the Beetle, Carabidae, Queen, Emperor, and Lucanidae by 10% - These are the larger tankier Hiver ships that with their armor needed a little nerf
   -Added hostile flags for Iron Shell and HMI - TY gufiu for noticing those two factions were too close to neutral
   -Changed the percentage of hull that the BIO Hull mod kicks in from 90 to 95% - Will kick in faster and repair more

0.96 -Save compatible with V 0.95 -If you have them set to be playable revisit the instructions on the forum OP - I recommend a new game start to take advantage of all changes 
   -Added a "Buy me a Coffee" tip link to Ko-Fi on the forum OP - By no means do I expect anyone to use it :) but it was requested by travhill20      
   -Added some lines to the code to better integrate Hivers in the picking of colony fleets in NEX
   -Added some code to better interact with NEX so that Hivers are more aggressive in invading the sector (you have been warned) - Ty so much Histidine for all your help!
   -Added new custom greetings when a player encounters a Hiver fleet or attempts to interact with a Hiver planet
   -Increased the range of the Krrakt Thermionic Hyper-Exiter PD from 350 to 400 - minor range increase to make it more competitive
   -Increase the speed of the Istkrrtc-type Hive from 225 to 325 - Allows it a better chance of reaching it's target
   -Increased the armor of the Scorpifly heavy drone from 325 to 450 - With it being unshielded this change will allow it to survive a little longer vs PD weapons
   -Added the Cerambycidae to the Hiver blueprint - Was incorrectly added to the high tech bp by mistake
   -Removed entries in unused columns on the ship hulls - Just removing some bloat that I though was needed when I started the project
   -Removed the nanoforge from each instance of light industry on Hiver planets - Learned that it was unneeded when fixing JYD so another small bloat removal
   -Changed the instructions on the forum OP on how to make the Hiver faction playable - The code changes made the previous way obsolete

0.95 Save Game compatible with version 0.9
   -Replaced the Hiver crest graphic with a better quality one
   -Received some requests to add more Hiver ship graphics to the alternate ship pack so I made replacements for the Aphid, Chrysopidae, Lacewing, and Lucanidae
   -Replaced the ship sprite for the Cleridae freighter with a cleaner version - Same graphic just less saturated
   -Replaced the ship sprite for the Viridula tanker with a less blurry version - Darker tint with some minor changes
   -Added a new Super Freighter to the Hiver lineup, the Chalcosoma - With the new colony added in 0.9 I felt they needed a large well defended freighter for their long distance trade fleets
   -Added a new Super Tanker to the Hiver lineup, the Cerambycidae - Same reason as above but for fuel
   -Added a new small energy weapon to the Hiver lineup, the Krrakt Thermionic Exiter and gave it a custom shot
      -Based of the vanilla IR pulse laser but does 10 more damage per shot, has a longer range of 700, a higher energy per shot of 70 and an additional chargedown of 0.1
   -Replaced every vanilla IR pulse laser equipped on all Hiver ship variants with the new Krrakt Thermionic Exiter
   -Changed the projectile of the Krrakt Thermionic Hyper-Exiter PD to the new custom shot I made for the Krrakt Thermionic Exiter
   -Added a glow effect to the Krrakt Thermionic Hyper-Exiter PD   
   -Added a turret image and glow effect to the Krrakt Thermionic Hyper-Exiter PD - The base image was a bit too large for a turret mount
   -Added a glow effect to the Svrerresh Bio-Plasmic Launcher and gave it a custom shot - Previously used the vanilla pulse laser shot
   -Added a glow effect to the Sverrtrrsx Bio-Plasmic Caster
   -Added a glow effect to the Xhezek Thermionic Sling - seeing a pattern here yet :)
   -Fixed and error in the Hiver weapons to prioritize - Added a missing entry for the Ezkepren-type Hive torpedo
   -Added turret mount images to the Deathfly and sharpened it up a little, also added missing Biological Hull mod - Just cleaning it up a little and noticed the missing hull mod
   -Added turret mount images to the Princess and sharpened it up, also added two missing small weapons on the variant
   -Fixed and error with the Scarabaeus not being added to the Hiver medium blueprint
   -Added the four new replacement ship sprites to the side by side comparison image on the forum OP
   -Re-made the ship sprite image on forum OP - replaced the above changed images and added the two new logistics ships(bottom of the image)- The old image was being cropped on smaller monitors
   -Added a Hiver emoji to the SS discord, you can now show your love Hiver style - Ty to Timid for suggesting it and Avanitia for adding it!

v0.9 - Save Game compatible however I recommend a new game since the new system requires a new game start to appear - Also, if you currently have any of the ships listed below in your save game fleet, you may need to refit them
   -Increased the % that the Biological Hullmod will kick in from 75% to 90% - Received some feedback that it needed a tweak
   -Added a new Hiver system; Rizdet is located on the map at the diametrical opposite of the other Hiver systems which should force Hiver fleets to travel the map to reach each other but still far away from normal traffic
   -Added yet more code flags to make Hivers aggressively hostile - An ongoing process that I am sure I'll nail down eventually :)
   -Increased the supply use and deployment points of the cruisers Prince, Catcher and Eyes from 15 to 20 - Brings them in line with other cruisers
   -Changed the loadout of the Scarab by removing it's offensive missile mounts and replacing them with more small turrets for defense - it is a freighter after all   
   -Increased the OP and the flux on the Eyes phase cruiser and added a second medium turret to bring it more in line with similar ships
   -Added a new logistics cruiser, the Ceruchus is well defended with PD mounts and equipped with a salvage & survey suite - Their fleet lacked these logistics - Essentially a heavy Apogee
   -Added a new destroyer, the Scarabaeus is primarily an energy weapon powerhouse for it's size - Essentially a beefier Sunder - The Hiver midweight class was lacking 
   -Updated the sprite for the Emperor - Same graphic just less saturated
   -Replaced the sprite of the Twinblaster weapon - the previous sprite was a blurry mess
   -Updated the sprite for the Twinpd weapon - Same graphic, just darkened a little    
   -Replaced the graphic used for the Scarab - Replacing one of my early blown up blurry messes, I swear I'll get them all eventually :)
   -The above graphic changes and additions are reflected on the Forum OP picture
   -Added a secondary RAR file to the download called "Replacement Ships.rar" that when extracted over the base mod will replace 11 pixel and data files for the biological looking ships (see below)
      -This is a request I have received from several players and the number one complaint regarding the "bug" sprites that I see on discord
      -The added RAR makes no other changes to the mod and can be ignored if you want to keep the original sprites
      -The replaced ships are the Beetle, Calopteryx, Crabby, Eyes, Flyter, Moth, Prince, Scorpifly, Snipper, Swimmer and the Viridula - Added a graphic to the mod main page showing the side by side differences
      -To enable all these changes, first install the base mod then open the "Replacement Ships.rar" (found in the Hiver Swarm base folder) and extract to your mod folder (same as any other mod)and accept overwritten files
      -To replace only some of the old sprites then install the mod as above but extract the "Replacement Ships.rar" to a dummy folder. Select the files for hull, variant and ship graphic you want and drag these to your HIVER folder and overwrite
      -To revert back to the original sprites, delete the HIVER mod from your mod folder and extract the base Hiver RAR to your mod folder. You can ignore or delete the Replacement Ships.rar file

v0.85a - Save Compatible from 0.85
   -Raised the break point of all Hiver ships to 60% for the smaller up to 90% for the larger to make them less recoverable
   -Raised the base cost of all Hiver assets by ~25% to make them more of a prize and more expensive to rebuild- TY vcuaoiwk for this and the above idea idea
   -A code update to fix a compatibility crash when using Linux - TY Phantasia for brining this to my attention   

v0.85 - 0.8 Save Compatible however most changes require a new sector generation and will only take effect on a new game
   -Tagged all Hiver ships to no longer be able to be spit out by the machine god during an Industrial Evolution sacrifice event - Big thanks to SirHartly for adding a tag to allow this - will take effect on the next Indi Evo update
   -Reviewed every major modded faction config and set Hivers to a higher percentage to be picked for colony evaluation - Best I can do to force them to be picked other than writing my own custom colony code (sadly way beyond my abilities)
   -Increased the distance Hiver fleets can travel to find a colony planet - Should cover the map
   -Installed Alpha Cores to run all Hiver Star Fortresses - Being a high tech civilization it is on brand plus it gives their planetary defense a little more teeth
   -Tweaked the Hiver planets to produce more fuel - Fuel was a limiting factor in their production of ships and fleets, this will hopefully increase their Invasion and Colony fleets in campaign mode
   -Increased the Hiver invasion chance a little to spur their growth
   -Increased the size of Hiver invasion and vengeance fleets - Makes them more of a threat
   -Added the tag that if the Hivers are used in Random mode they will get a bonus Orbital Works and Fuel production to give them a decent start in that mode 
   -Fixed an issue with the Zesketet background image causing a crash. - Essentially I changed the name of the sector but not the image - Ty to Omega_DarkPotato for the crash report

v0.8
   -Added Version Checker integration
   -Renamed Homehive to a Hiver name - Will only effect new games since SS only assigns system names at game creation
   -Hiver ships are no longer searchable in the codex - TY gentulf for this and the above suggestions
   -Added a Industrial Evolution black list making HIVER assets not available at the requisitions center industry
   -Added a Blacklist to exclude all Hiver ships, weapons and wings from SCY's Amity's Freeport discount trader
   -Added the ability for all Hiver missiles to be immune to Diable Avionics' Derecho ECM system - see below
   -Added the ability for all Hiver missiles to be immune to Arma Armatura's Karma hacking - I feel that Hiver weapons are too alien to be effected by these two mod's abilities
   -Changed Hiver relationship status to all from Hostile to Vengeful - enter their systems at your own risk!
   -Changed the ship system of the Queen to Targeting Feed  -More in line with the Queen being a back line command ship
   -Changed the ship system of the Calopteryx to Recall device - More in line with the Calopteryx being a highly mobile strike carrier  - TY to grinningsphinx for this and the above suggestions
   -Changed the weapon type of the Calopteryx from energy to synergy and added Expanded missile racks as a built in mod. Also reset the Standard refit to reflect these changes - Gives it more flexibility
   -Changed all ship weapon mounts from hidden to shown (Turret & Hardpoint). TY Namesarethings for brining this discord discussion to my attention and guiding my research into the topic
      Did this for three reasons:
      1) As hidden mounts they could not be disabled which made them a little too hard to overcome
      2) By converting some of the hidden mounts to hardpoints they gained the benefit of having lower recoil
      3) What self respecting cyborg wouldn't want to show off it's shiny?
   
v0.75
   -Added a blacklist for the Hivers that exempts the Hivers adjusting reputation if a player uses the Ruthless Sector mod
   -Added more AI tags to the faction ID that limit their chances of showing up on missions
   -Added all their weapons and ships to a blacklist preventing them from showing up at the Prism Freeport
   -Added HIVER to a faction blacklist preventing them from interacting with Varya Bounties
   -Configured all options for HIVER to flag false under the conditions for bar events when a player has the Starship Legends mod

v07a - quick hot fix - 0.7 save game compatible
   -Re-drew the boundaries on all Hiver hulls - Read a comment on discord that if player owned Hiver ships with hidden weapon mounts are equipped with non-Hiver weapons there is a small chance it may go out of bounds and cause a crash.

v0.7 Save Game Compatible - New game start needed for rep level changes see below
   -Lowered the starting and max possible relationship with Hivers to Vengeful - Essentially they hate you personally now and will do so to perpetuity - **This will only take effect on new game starts**
      Reason: Read a couple comments of players "working the system" and making them trade partners which is very op since their economy is very strong and not on brand
   -After some testing I decided to increase the dps of the Twin Blaster from 300 to 600 and energy per shot from 95 to 85 - it is essentially two medium pulse lasses (300 dmg and 40 energy) on a large mount
   -After some consultation with Histidine, I increased the range that Hivers will look for colony planets - This will help but overall it is a matter of how many faction mods installed that determines colony change %
   -Upgraded the Hornet's ground support to advanced groud support - ty to grinningsphinx for the suggestion
   -Increased the break probability of all the unarmored living ship variety of Hiver (Calopteryx, Crabby, Eyes, Moth, Prince, Snipper) to make them less recoverable
   -Removed the above list from the Industrial Evolution whitelist which disables them from being reverse engineered
   -Lowered the deployment points of the Emperor from 90 to 70 -It's dps was lowered by fixing the OP error on the Twin Blaster so it seems more balanced
   -Added a new torpedo weapon- grinningsphinx pointed out that the Hiver bomber was underpowered with the MIRV plus they lacked a torpedo so voila here it is!
   -Replaced the MIRV with the new torpedo on the Gnawler bomber drone and reduced the wing count from 2 to 1
   -Increased the EMP damage on the two plasma weapons - 100 to 125 and 200 to 250 respectively
   -Swapped out missile mounts on some of the ship variants with the new torpedo mount
   -Renamed all Hiver weapons and added custom description as wrote by grinningsphinx - At this point thank you just does not seem enough for all his efforts for this mod but TY just the same :)   
   
v0.6
   -Changed the faction colony behavior based on feedback. They will now look for standard colony planets instead of industrial and I increased their chance to send a fleet from 1 to 1.5 -let me know if you see a difference
   -After reading numerous discord comments about the Twin Blaster being overpowered, I looked over the code and realized I made a typo and fixed it
      The charge up and charge down were set to 0.05 instead of 0.5. I intended it to be 300 dps not 3000, my bad
   -Changed the graphics of the two beetle ships adapting Protonus's designs after receiving a private messages that they were too disturbing and reading discord comments that they were too different from the other ships
      FYI: the Emperor is also a Prontus adaptation so he's not so lonely now :)
   -The Cleridae has been redesigned from a frigate to a destroyer and to not only be a tug for the Hivers but also a good small pd ship which they lacked and is now armed with 7 pd mounts and 1 small missile
   -Added 2 small hard point missile mounts to the Scarab giving it a bit more teeth
   -Replaced the graphics of the two beetle ships with the new ones on the picture posed in the OP
   -Fixed some code and naming left over from when the Hivers were part of my JYD mod
   -Took a posted suggestion from Tipnick on my JYD mod and going forward the mod tab and RAR updates will have version numbers
   -Added text descriptions to all the Hiver weapons, ships and drones. Not my best work but I banged it out this morning for this patch, I'll probably update them later - Feel free to give me suggestions!
      At least there is no more lazy boilerplate "Very little is known about Hiver ships. They are bio-cybernetic in nature featuring high tech weapons and living heavy armor." :)
   
v0.55 oopise edition
   -Quick hotfix:
      Essentially I accidentally assigned JYD SRM missiles instead of HIVER MIRV missiles on the new Scorpifly drone (fixed) and it you do not have JYD installed it would kick a fit - ty Futanagatari!   
v0.5
   -Added a new heavy drone - the Scorpifly is a heavily armored drone equipped with 2 MIRV missile launchers, 1 Spitter and 1 Twin PD - TY grinningsphinx for the collaboration and great name!
   -Added a new large Drone Tender - the Lucanidae is heavily armed and comes pre equipped with 6 drones including 2 of the new Scorpifly Heavy Drone - you have been warned
   -Fixed the AI tags for the HIVER wings, they should fight more intelligently now
   -Added 2 new ships that fill in missing utility ships for people who play as HIVERS:
      small tanker - the Viridula  - I'm pretty happy with the kitbash, hope you like it
      small combat freighter - the Silverfish - a beefier analogue of the hound but high tech with weak shields
   -Increased the fuel capacity of the Swimmer to 1400 and designated it as a medium/large tanker
   -Increased the range of the Spitter from 750 to 800
   -Added a Cryosanctum to Chozanti to supply Harvested Organs to the Hivers
   -Removed Harvested Organs from illegal wares and added Hand Weapons - They do not have hands after all :)
   -Increased the % that the Biological Hull hull Mod kicks in from 50% to 75% - Ty grinningsphinx for that last minute callout
   -Added the Biological Hull hull mod to all HIVER fighters and drones - sort of of an oversight I fixed when I was tinkering with it
   -Added images of the three new ships and the new heavy drone to the op link

V0.45
   -Reworked the HIVER economy to be less cheatery by limiting industries to standard and adding an additional settled planet to each system to compensate - TY MapleDaddy__ TTV for the suggestion.
   -Added new patrol fleets to each HIVER system to cover some blind spots
   -Added a mine laying system to the Beetle - Ty grinningsphinx for the idea to add Hive mines :)
   -Added an emp system to the Snipper making it a more effective pd ship
   -Adjusted the Queen's standard variant to use all its OP
   -Reworked the ship systems of several ships. They can now do more than microburn and high energy focus. TY grinningsphinx for the suggestion
   -Changed the Crabby to a Phase Destroyer
   -Changed the Eyes to a Phase Cruiser - It's eyes now glow in the dark oOoOoOooo spooky!
   -Changed the weapons on the Katydid to be more in line with Hiver high tech
   -Added a new troop transport ship the Hornet - TY grinningsphinx again for the suggestion, hope you like it I'm pretty happy with the kitbash
   -Added a new Tug utility ship the Cleridae
   -Added images of the Hornet and Cleridae to the op link (bottom) - The two beetles are holding hands how cute :)

v0.4
   -Fixed a typo with the long range blaster. Now uses 175 flux per shot - TY grinningsphinx for pointing out that OP mistake :)
   -Added a new Heavy Cruiser, the Princess. Heavy armor and hull with 2 small missiles as well as 5 medium and 3 small energy mounts
   -Added image of the princess to the op link (bottom)
   
v0.35
   -Made changes and tested to ensure compatibility with the latest version of Starsector
   -Fixed an error in the starting blueprints graphics when you flag them as playable
   -Added 16 Hiver player portraits that the player can enable if they choose to make them playable - see forum OP for instructions
   -Added two Hiver specific interaction images for their planets
   -Each Hiver planet now has a market that will only sell Hiver ships
   -Hiver Military markets sell Hiver weapons as well as other Corvus energy and missile weapons
   -Added detailed instructions on how to make them playable to the forum page
   -Hiver ships will now remain in dark running even if you are commissioned with them
   -Lowered the price of the Chrysopidae and changed the class from destroyer to heavy frigate
   -Increased the size of the Crabby and Deathfly to be more in line with other destroyer hulls

v0.3
   -Added 5 new Hiver specific BP packages that can be found when looting any area a BP pack can be found, for example a research station
   -Added the new BP packs as start items if you enable the mod to be playable
   -Added some functionality code to the Hiver wing AI
   -Fixed a mistake with the Scarab being accidentally flagged as a JYD ship
   -Ran a spell check on every text file and fixed several errors in spelling/grammar

v0.25
   -All Hiver weapons and Ships are now blacklisted for the Prism Freeport and will not show up for sale
   -Disabled the Hiver blueprint package so it should now not show up as loot. - may cause a crash if you have it in your inventory
   
v0.2 New Game Required
   -Added new hull - Scarab - Medium Freighter
   -Greatly increased the credit value of Hiver weapons as a reward for salvaging them (assuming you do not use them)
   -Reworked initial Hiver system to be more self sufficient
   -Added a secondary Hiver system for inter faction trade
   -Increased patrols in both Hiver systems
   -Set Player relations to Inhospitable (just a little above hostile) - you can visit their systems and view their assets but one wrong move....

v0.1
   - Initial release for review, testing and constructive criticism.
[close]
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.1 - test and evaluation version 11/14/21
Post by: 6chad.noirlee9 on November 15, 2021, 07:12:05 AM
Great idea making a mid game threat that could scale to being late game threat via conquering of systems.
I would advise making the "clearly a giant insect" ships impossible to recover, and perhaps kitbashing some of them into pirate ships, and maybe a high tech version or two.
Just my thoughts.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.1 - test and evaluation version 11/14/21
Post by: Dazs on November 15, 2021, 07:30:21 AM
Thanks 6chad, always nice to get your feedback. All the ships in this mod are high tech, if you capture one you can install beams and the like. I just went with custom pulse energy and plasma weapons for lore and flavor. The largest ones, Emperor, Beetle and Queen all have a decent shatter chance and due to their deployment costs they would be rare sightings and probably never in the same fleet. That should curtail hunting down a fleet of them but I am reluctant to disable their recovery entirely so as to appeal to as many players as I can. You can always decide not to recover but I do get your meaning.

As to kitbashing them into pirate ships that would be tricky and stay within the Hiver lore. Ok getting nerdy now feel free to TLDR Yeet out:

Wars are common among Hivers and the Hiver military impulse is generally driven by population pressure or the urge for supremacy. Because each Hiver princess can produce countless offspring per year, the population of Hivers in any one place can spike very quickly leading to intense competition for space and resources. A hive under pressure has limited options: either they can flee, cull their own population or eliminate the competition.

I envision this faction of hivers as one of those offshoots that fled a larger swarm and established a new home for themselves in Corvus. In SWOTS he fastest a Hiver fleet can ever go is 0.99C, or 99% of the speed of light. Any fleet could see them coming so Hivers cannot perform pirate actions, and in fact will never unlock Commerce Raiding (the SWOTS version of pirates). OK I know those limitations are from another game but I do my best to establish a lore in my mods and keep it consistent.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.1 - test and evaluation version 11/14/21
Post by: Deageon on November 15, 2021, 07:38:42 PM
I'm gonna throw this on in my next playthrough and see how it feels to encounter these guys, but do they operate like remnants in that they have certain outskirt systems marked with beacons to tell players where the danger is? Also, perhaps they could drop loot and such to help reward players, not /too/ much but y'know, profit motivates.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.1 - test and evaluation version 11/14/21
Post by: Dazs on November 16, 2021, 03:39:08 AM
They are not as prevalent as Remnant but they are aggressive and will attack on sight. I have them currently set up in one system on the edge of the map but I have not added a beacon because there is a note not to add any assets to the storm as it slows down the game. Essentially they are set up to behave like a faction, they will defend their system, send out scouting fleets, look for systems to colonize and eventually send a colony fleet to do so. I excluded them showing up on the Intel tab but their system is named and on the sector map. You could find them by opening up the map and looking though all the stars for a new one but I would not suggest going after them until you have a good fleet. They are meant to be a mid level challenge but do not wait too long because as time passes they will expand.

As to special loot, currently their ships are pretty OP and they have custom weapons/wings that could be useful. Remnant have the advantage of dropping cores that are useful in many ways but the main difference is the Hivers only have the one system unlike Remnant that are everywhere on the edges and farmable. Adding a custom asset or commodity that only the Hivers have as an additional reward would have to be carefully thought out. I will give it some thought because I do want this to be a rewarding experience and any suggestions knowing those limitations would be welcome.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.1 - test and evaluation version 11/14/21
Post by: Arthur_The_Ok on November 17, 2021, 06:06:40 AM
About the custom asset/comodity: since they're so difficult to kill, killing them would grant the player swarmer heads and/or living ship parts, that could be traded for credits or reputation with other faction
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.1 - test and evaluation version 11/14/21
Post by: Dazs on November 17, 2021, 07:09:32 AM
I can see your point as well as Deageon's . At this stage I am unaware of how to enact that but that hasn't stopped me from releasing three mods now from a start point of ignorance lol. I just polished up JYD and pretty sure Ore Refinery is at the stage of completion so I'll do a deep dive and see how I can improve this mod. It may not be this (at least at first) but I'm sure I'll come up with something. :)

As always, thank you for the inspiration!
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.1 - test and evaluation version 11/14/21
Post by: 6chad.noirlee9 on November 17, 2021, 07:49:51 AM
I'm sure you know but in case you dont there is a misc modding questions thread that is active that alex also reads and responds.  The discord folks are also known to be spectacular in regards to helping people solve problems.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.1 - test and evaluation version 11/14/21
Post by: Dazs on November 17, 2021, 01:45:51 PM
Yes I do use the unofficial discord at times and I use all the resources on the forums. I tank you for the tips however.

@everyone - I am sorry to say I cannot recommend you expect this mod to be working as intended at this stage of development. As I was implementing 6chad.noirlee9's suggestion about adding custom commodity drops (which I think I have done) I went after the hivers and was dismayed that their system was in decline. All the assets were there but the fleets were pathetic. I made myself friendly and looked at their worlds and they lack several commodities they need in order to grow. What I hadn't considered when making them hostile to all is that they have no opportunity for trade and growth.

I will keep the mod up in its current state but I will be posting a warning on the OP and working on making this what I envisioned
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.2 - test and evaluation version 11/19/21
Post by: Dazs on November 19, 2021, 09:10:44 AM
v0.2 released - New game required for all changes to take effect - See changelog on OP or game files for details.

@Arthur_The_Ok -  I had made some progress on your suggestion for custom drops but in the process of testing it, I had to stop. I had relied on testing the mod before release mainly while I was commissioned with them and had not realized they were extremely hobbled once I made them hostile to all. So long story short, I had to remove the code I put in for the custom drops and totally rework their economy. As a consolation prize, I greatly increased the value of their weapons so if you are a ballistic user and do not have much use for energy weapons, you can at least benefit credits wise.  Not saying I won't follow up with the suggestion at some point because it is a good one and I would like to take a crack at it but whoah, creating a workable inter-faction economy more work than I knew. :)

Mad props to Alex for making this game work as well as it does!

Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.2 - test and evaluation version 11/19/21
Post by: Dazs on November 19, 2021, 09:20:47 AM
Also, To all:

I added some tactics / hints to the OP if anyone is having difficulty with them. I tested attacking them with quite a powerful fleet and it was some of the most challenging combat and came away bloody. I wouldn't suggest going after their ships or systems until you are established and can afford to loose some capital ships.

I set them to inhospitable to the player so you can scout their systems but not trade with them. I have their faction capped so you cannot increase your reputation with them. You want their sweet stuff, you gotta pay to play :)

Have fun, and let me know what you think. This is still a test release (now a working one) and I am always open to suggestions.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.2 - test and evaluation version 11/19/21
Post by: 6chad.noirlee9 on November 19, 2021, 07:14:04 PM
A shame about the hiccups but this mod is quite promising and I'm excited to give a go at annihilating the xenos scum
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.2 - test and evaluation version 11/19/21
Post by: Arthur_The_Ok on November 20, 2021, 01:41:57 PM
I should've asked this a long time ago, but does the mod work with Nexerelin's random core worlds function?
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.2 - test and evaluation version 11/19/21
Post by: Dazs on November 21, 2021, 04:44:21 AM
What a great question, I had not considered testing that. Soooo the answer is um, sort of.

Did a round of testing and here's the results:


Now although there is the bare bones in the mod to make them playable, I did not envisions them in that role. However, although I do not play random core I am sure others do so below is the steps to make them playable and to enable them to show on the Intel tab. - Spoiler tags for those that do not want that knowledge:

Spoiler
First off, use Notepad++ or a java complier. If you make changes with standard notepad or some other editor it may mess with the Java code. From the Hiver mod tab in you mods folder go to Hiver Swarm\data\config\exerelinfactionConfig\HIVER.json and open it with your editor. Super simple, I made the first line of the code as the playable flag so set "playableFaction":false, to true, and save.

Now to set the intel tab: Go to Hiver Swarm\data\world\factions\HIVER.faction and open it with your editor on line 14 you will see "showInIntelTab":false,  change the false, to true, and save the file.
[close]


Congratulations! If you make those changes, you can now be a Hiver (sadly you will have to use a standard portrait as I have the custom Hiver portraits set for Hivers only) or play against them. This works on standard core worlds too. However, I would not recommend it in random mode as they do not have the advantages of the curated systems I designed to give them a booming economy and thus large fleets. This would make them easier pickings as pretty much every faction hates them and will eventually wipe them out. But to each their own just know you void the warranty by doing so :)
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.2 - test and evaluation version 11/19/21
Post by: Arthur_The_Ok on November 21, 2021, 05:32:59 AM
Another thing: is Prism Freeport supposed to sell Hiver weapons? I have a screenshot of Hiver weapons on the High End Market, but I don't know how to put it here
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.2 - test and evaluation version 11/19/21
Post by: 6chad.noirlee9 on November 21, 2021, 05:42:25 AM
I think your file was over the limit

Btw I almost always play random sector because that allows derelict empire, but I play that with random faction weights as well which really can make some interesting sectors.  Perhaps you could at some point make a custom scenario?  If you feel like it.

A core worlds in this corner of map, hiver in that, and derelict remnant in the other would be cool.  Good for 4x challenge.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.2 - test and evaluation version 11/19/21
Post by: Dazs on November 21, 2021, 11:40:57 AM
Perhaps you could at some point make a custom scenario?  If you feel like it. A core worlds in this corner of map, hiver in that, and derelict remnant in the other would be cool.  Good for 4x challenge.
I haven't attempted to mod the scenario part of the game as yet. I am finishing up a new release of JYD, maybe I'll tackle that next either here or there.
I think your file was over the limit
Can you explain what you mean by that?
Another thing: is Prism Freeport supposed to sell Hiver weapons? I have a screenshot of Hiver weapons on the High End Market, but I don't know how to put it here
That is news to me, I have them set to a faction specific blueprint that only The Hiver faction has access to. Idk maybe Prism reads all the faction blueprints in the players mod folder and pulls them for it's own use. Just a guess I haven't visited the free port in some time.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.2 - test and evaluation version 11/19/21
Post by: Arthur_The_Ok on November 21, 2021, 12:06:33 PM
I have them set to a faction specific blueprint that only The Hiver faction has access to.
Speaking of blueprints; I found a Hiver Blueprint Package when I was salvaging a research station. Is that intended to happen
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.2 - test and evaluation version 11/19/21
Post by: Dazs on November 21, 2021, 12:24:31 PM
Hmm maybe part of the research station code is to pull all the bp's currently in the game regardless of where they came from. Like I stated regarding the Prism Freeport issue, I flagged all their assets to be Hiver only. If that is the case with either or both, I am a little concerned because I envisioned their Hiver specific assets to be a reward earned for fighting them. But lore wise I can see the Corvus factions interested in Hiver blueprints and reverse engineering them.

I'll look over the code for both and see why they are pulling assets from the Hiver mod and get back to you.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.2 - test and evaluation version 11/19/21
Post by: 6chad.noirlee9 on November 21, 2021, 02:11:08 PM
The comment I was referring to was deleted.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.25 - test and evaluation version 11/21/21
Post by: Dazs on November 21, 2021, 05:18:54 PM
v0.25 released today - Hiver ships and weapons are backlisted for Prism Freeport and their Blueprint package has been disabled.

The comment I was referring to was deleted.
Ah ok, phew, I thought I had the mod squared away :)

Speaking of blueprints; I found a Hiver Blueprint Package when I was salvaging a research station. Is that intended to happen
I was able to disable the Hiver blueprint package, just make sure you do not have one in your inventory before upgrading to 0.25 or you most likely will crash. Should not be an issue if you learned it since the blueprints themselves are still active, just the package was disabled. However, the more I thought about it, I like the idea that Hoomans and AI are frantically researching Hiver technology to maintain parity so I may make mini packages in the future.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.2 - test and evaluation version 11/19/21
Post by: 6chad.noirlee9 on November 21, 2021, 05:27:03 PM
The comment I was referring to was deleted.
Posted twice, my apologies.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.25 - test and evaluation version 11/21/21
Post by: Dazs on November 21, 2021, 05:40:45 PM
Not a problem, I truly appreciate the beta testing you and others are doing. It really points out the blind spots I have not considered and makes the mod overall better for all.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.25 - test and evaluation version 11/21/21
Post by: Arthur_The_Ok on November 25, 2021, 05:52:08 AM
Game crashed when I tried to access the "Planet picker" with the mod enabled.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.25 - test and evaluation version 11/21/21
Post by: 6chad.noirlee9 on November 25, 2021, 08:33:17 AM
Just tried fighting the 90 dp ship in simulator and it definitely deserves that rating
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.25 - test and evaluation version 11/21/21
Post by: Titann on November 25, 2021, 12:23:58 PM
i was waiting a mod like this lol. Do you have any plans to make them Crisis event like in Stellaris? Like first they show up with small ships but more powerful ships appear as time goes on so they start attacking core worlds, capture systems, maybe factions also become allied with eachother to counter the hiver swarm. Even a buildable special super ship to make fighting easier with hiver swarm? (with a hullmod that increases its stats against hiver ships so it doesnt become op against everything)

Good stuff though i love it.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.25 - test and evaluation version 11/21/21
Post by: Dazs on November 25, 2021, 01:03:45 PM
Game crashed when I tried to access the "Planet picker" with the mod enabled.

I am unsure what a "Planet picker" is that you are referring to. A bit of clarity and I'll look into it!

Just tried fighting the 90 dp ship in simulator and it definitely deserves that rating

OH yea it is a beast for sure, glad you enjoyed the fight!

i was waiting a mod like this lol. Do you have any plans to make them Crisis event like in Stellaris? Like first they show up with small ships but more powerful ships appear as time goes on so they start attacking core worlds, capture systems, maybe factions also become allied with eachother to counter the hiver swarm. Even a buildable special super ship to make fighting easier with hiver swarm? (with a hullmod that increases its stats against hiver ships so it doesnt become op against everything)

Good stuff though i love it.

Nice, always great to hear nice things so glad you are enjoying it!

Well the mechanics of such an event like in Stellaris aren't exactly in Starsector at this point. I do have them set to start off with two systems in deep space that will send out scouting fleets and eventually colonize other systems if they find a suitable one. I tailored their systems to be economic powerhouses so they have a head start over other factions colony fleets. As to an anti-hiver specific hullmod I am honestly not sure if that can be a thing but I am intrigued with the idea and will look into it once I have the next round of fixes published for JYD.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.25 - test and evaluation version 11/21/21
Post by: Arthur_The_Ok on November 25, 2021, 02:01:08 PM
Game crashed when I tried to access the "Planet picker" with the mod enabled.

I am unsure what a "Planet picker" is that you are referring to. A bit of clarity and I'll look into it!
In Nexerelin, you have the option to start with your own planet and faction. When starting with your own faction, the "Planet picker" will let you add stuff in your planet, like heavy industry, military base, volatiles, rare ores, metal ores, farming terrain, population boost, etc. It also lets you pick blueprint packages, like low tech, high tech and midline blueprint packages and packages from playable factions. I think it crahsed because it couldn't find the Hiver blueprint package.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.25 - test and evaluation version 11/21/21
Post by: Dazs on November 25, 2021, 04:10:53 PM
Ah well that is because in the last update I removed the Hiver BP package as it was dropping from research stations and tech caches. I do plan to divide it up into a few BP packs and re-enable the packages in the next update but for now it is disabled because I though it very OP to get all the Hiver blueprints in one drop.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.3 - test and evaluation version 12/03/21
Post by: Dazs on December 03, 2021, 05:42:00 AM
v0.3 released today - see Changelog on OP or game file for details

@Arthur_The_Ok - part of this update adds 5 new Hiver specific BP packs which should solve your issue. They are dived by ship size (small, medium, large), weapons and wings. Please let me know if that addresses your concern.

@All - This update fixes the remaining minor issues that I am aware of. I ask anyone who is using the mod for any feedback they feel would make the mod more enjoyable. I will leave the mod in the "test" version for a few days but please let me know if you have any ideas for the faction or comments on the existing assets before I release it on the main mod forums.

Enjoy!
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.3 -release version 12/08/21
Post by: Dazs on December 08, 2021, 05:13:46 PM
Ready for release version - Enjoy!
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.3 -release version 12/08/21
Post by: eidolad on December 09, 2021, 08:10:58 PM
Makes me wanna play Bastard Sword of the Stars mod! 

I really like the "mid-game" intent for this mod...it's almost as a "dynamic player vs. environment" sort of addition to the sector!

Will def be in my next playthrough.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.3 -release version 12/08/21
Post by: Dazs on December 10, 2021, 04:58:57 AM
BSOTS is the best way to play - Good to see a fan, enjoy!
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.3 -release version 12/08/21
Post by: Cirind on December 10, 2021, 08:13:16 AM
I see hivers from Sword of The Stars I instantly Like.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Hiver Swarm - V0.3 -release version 12/08/21
Post by: Dazs on December 10, 2021, 09:56:27 AM
Nice to hear, I hope you enjoy my poor interpretation here heh
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.35 -release version 12/13/21
Post by: Dazs on December 13, 2021, 02:56:55 PM
v0.35 released today - Save game compatible but some changes require a new game start - see changelog on OP or game files for details

I also added detailed instructions on how to make the faction playable on the forum OP

Enjoy!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.35 - 12/13/21
Post by: Light of Other Days on December 13, 2021, 07:49:12 PM
Starting a new playthrough and giving this a shot. While I love my space dolphins first and foremost, shooting the hell out of Hivers is always very satisfying.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.35 - 12/13/21
Post by: Dazs on December 13, 2021, 08:07:36 PM
lol indeed!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.35 - 12/13/21
Post by: LinWasTaken on December 16, 2021, 10:47:32 AM
this mod is by far the one im most exited to see getting updated.
i get a rush of dopamine whenever i see patch notes for it.
this mod has the potential to become a game changer. where as you normally just slowly build up your wealth and fleet over time. with this mod you have a ticking timebomb. the longer you take making your fleet, the stronger the Hyver Swarm becomes.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.35 - 12/13/21
Post by: Dazs on December 16, 2021, 01:01:32 PM
That is so nice to hear. I wasn't sure what the reception would be when I mashed it together and it is so gratifyingly to hear other players enjoy the content. My current progress, a sneak peek if you will, is to add more Hiver graphics but I am not sure how to change the bar interactions and such. I am also working on Hiver specific stations but again, having an issue figuring that one out. At this stage that is just high concept so no promises :)

As always if you or anyone else has an idea or comment about the mod, I am open to suggestions.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.35 - 12/13/21
Post by: Arthur_The_Ok on December 16, 2021, 03:59:03 PM
Starting a new playthrough and giving this a shot. While I love my space dolphins first and foremost, shooting the hell out of Hivers is always very satisfying.
"Space Dolphins"? Could you elaborate?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.35 - 12/13/21
Post by: Dazs on December 16, 2021, 04:13:14 PM
He is referring to the Liir which are a race of psionically gifted aquatic mammals in sword of the stars. They resemble Terran dolphins when younger then increasingly large whales afterwards.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.35 - 12/13/21
Post by: Avery on December 17, 2021, 05:50:34 PM
dreamed of a mod like this for a while can't believe someone actually did it, thank you so much!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.35 - 12/13/21
Post by: Dazs on December 17, 2021, 07:28:48 PM
Always nice to hear good things about the mod, thank you for the kind words.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.35 - 12/13/21
Post by: envenger on December 24, 2021, 02:53:55 PM
Great idea for the mod, i always wanted something like this. They can work as an endgame crisis or a mid level threat.

Regarding the design of the ships, i have some fixed thoughts. The ships that resemble bugs but that are not actual bugs look great. But the ship that look exactly like bugs break immersion for me.
Like i can imagine a hive making bug like ships floating space arround but like bugs actually being the size of ship and looking like beetle doesn't fit.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.35 - 12/13/21
Post by: 6chad.noirlee9 on December 24, 2021, 03:15:06 PM
Do you plan on making a version of this compatible with random sector?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.35 - 12/13/21
Post by: Dazs on December 24, 2021, 05:21:39 PM
Great idea for the mod, i always wanted something like this. They can work as an endgame crisis or a mid level threat.

Regarding the design of the ships, i have some fixed thoughts. The ships that resemble bugs but that are not actual bugs look great. But the ship that look exactly like bugs break immersion for me.
Like i can imagine a hive making bug like ships floating space arround but like bugs actually being the size of ship and looking like beetle doesn't fit.

I am glad you like it! I tried to stay within the balance of how Hivers in sword of the stars designed their ships with the fact that my pixel art skills are subpar :) The mix of pure organic and cyborg plated hulls is in line with their lore, an evolutionary progression if you will. I also wanted to cement the idea of "the other" in players minds. However, I do think they could use some touching up and as I get better at editing, I will try to kitbash some armor on the pure organics.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.35 - 12/13/21
Post by: Dazs on December 24, 2021, 06:12:49 PM
Do you plan on making a version of this compatible with random sector?

Heya 6chad always good to hear from you. The game will only include playable factions in random sector mode so I added instructions on how to make them a playable race on the front page. To make them compatible with random sector, follow the instructions to flag them as playable, the intel and portrait instructions aren't needed unless you plan to play as them.

Enjoy!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.35 - 12/13/21
Post by: MapleDaddy__ TTV on January 02, 2022, 06:13:25 PM
So, I've been playing on stream with this mod, and I noticed something, do they have Nex things even? they aren't attacking me, and I just invaded and took over all of Kiztac without any resistance, or them sending vengeance fleets and/or counter invasions in response to me taking these worlds.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.35 - 12/13/21
Post by: MapleDaddy__ TTV on January 02, 2022, 06:15:48 PM
I also need to add, when I took Tototchic over, only modifying the upper end of max industries, it was over the cap of 4 for it's current value when I took it over, so you may want to look into it if it was something you overlooked.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.35 - 12/13/21
Post by: Dazs on January 03, 2022, 04:33:38 AM
So, I've been playing on stream with this mod, and I noticed something, do they have Nex things even? they aren't attacking me, and I just invaded and took over all of Kiztac without any resistance, or them sending vengeance fleets and/or counter invasions in response to me taking these worlds.
They are set to be just above hostile so you can fly around and scout. However, In my experience, once you attack one of their fleets they turn hostile and will chase you down in their sectors. I am unsure what you mean by NEX "things". As to vengeance fleets, etc: If you took over their major planets then you have effectively gutted their economy and have greatly reduced their income to afford fleets.

I also need to add, when I took Tototchic over, only modifying the upper end of max industries, it was over the cap of 4 for it's current value when I took it over, so you may want to look into it if it was something you overlooked.
As to the planet caps, yes that is an intended cheat for them to balance out that they are all the way out in Narnia and have no one to trade with due to their hostile nature. If I had not done that then I would have to add several more planets to cover all the industries and that gave them way too many fleets. I intended them to be a mid lvl threat which I felt was lacking in the game which is why they are so far away and only two systems. They needed to be tough and able to replenish their losses but still manageable.

It seems to me you have effectively overcome their threat, good job! There are bigger bads out there go get em champ!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.35 - 12/13/21
Post by: grinningsphinx on January 11, 2022, 01:48:11 PM
Is the long range blaster supposed to be 800 damage for 75 flux?=P
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.35 - 12/13/21
Post by: Dazs on January 11, 2022, 04:32:05 PM
Oo good catch, that should be 175. Thanks for noticing the typo, I'll change it for the next update.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.4 - 01/11/22
Post by: Dazs on January 11, 2022, 06:44:21 PM
0.4 released today. Fixed an issue mentioned above and added a new heavy cruiser, the princess. Updated the ship picture on the op to include the new ship, as a side note I see that over 30k people peeked at the previous picture :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.4 - 01/11/22
Post by: grinningsphinx on January 13, 2022, 07:07:30 PM
Not too much synergy between the ships, nor evidence of any kind of hive mind type ships.(Yukikaze etc) Are you planning on expanding the ship systems to match ship roles? 
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.4 - 01/11/22
Post by: Dazs on January 14, 2022, 04:45:58 AM
I always appreciate feedback but I am unsure specifically what you are asking. As to synergy, the smaller ships do synch up in their hit and run tactics which I though meshes well with their ability to repair their hulls while the heavier ships block for them. I did my best to balance the Hivers as a threat to mid level fleets but not too overpowered for end game fleets with max lvl officers and high end ships. Essentially I envisioned them to be a stepping stone between pirates and ordo fleets.

I would appreciate any clarity and input and am always looking for ways to improve all three of my mods. Thank you for taking the time and I look forward to any response.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.4 - 01/11/22
Post by: grinningsphinx on January 14, 2022, 09:49:13 AM
Sure thing boss.

To me, theres nothing about these ships that says "this is a hive mind", its all just rather generic.  The systems they have while okay in practice, leave a lot of holes in the line up.

For instance, youre missing anything with a ground support package, nor do any ships have any fast missile racks or missile forges. Nothing has any kind of maneuverability system and i believe its lacking in phase ships.  The fighters are fairly generic with lots of holes in them as well. Perhaps ive not seen them yet, but there doesnt seem to be any other faction specific mod other then Biological Hull. High energy focus a bit overused. Perhaps borrow some of the code for the acid weaponry(with permission of course) and make some unique effects on some weapons. Maybe some energy weapons with limited tracking, thats pretty rare and enough to be unique. Combine the multi-part munitions from Arkgniesis and you could probably make curving beams!  Maybe some hive mines(heh), that instead of exploding with damage create fighter craft. Maybe take advantage of the state based ship specials that have been appearing? Dunno, just throwing ideas out there. Havent seen there home system yet, do they utilize special stations and defenses?


As a first pass its pretty cool, good adaptations on the sprites etc. Some of the ships look really cool like the Beetle and the big carrier dragonfly thing is useful. Tartiflette could probably give some insight on how to do fluttering wings etc and the Kingdom of terra has segmented ships, which would be really cool on the long worm like things.


Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.4 - 01/11/22
Post by: Dazs on January 14, 2022, 10:37:45 AM
Hmm ok that is a lot to digest. I do see your point though, I did use high energy focus on many of the ships and I will go over their layouts and specialize them better. You make a good point about ground support. In my games they seem to go after the luddics with a vengeance but it takes them a bit to take over the planets so I will add a specialized troop transport at your suggestion. As to phase ships well tbh that is sort of my prejudice, I just do not like them or use them in my games. You do make a good point there that I am trying to make this a fun mod for anyone and I could maybe convert some of the current ships to phase, or maybe add a couple.

I do like the play on words with hive mines lol. I do know there are mods that have mines, I would have to do some research to make my own but I like that. By fighters are you referring to their drones: allsup, flyter, gnawler and katydid and if so what holes?

As to making unique effects and special spiriting well that may be beyond my talents. I am no artist and the visuals I use in all my mods are  from other modders who kindly posted their leftovers on spiral arms, I just recolored and or kitbashed them.

I am currently in the process of reworking their economy as suggested by MapleDaddy__ TTV so if you could flesh out your suggestions a wee but more I will work on your ideas next.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.45 - 01/15/22
Post by: Dazs on January 14, 2022, 10:43:13 PM
V0.45 out today  - See changelog either on the OP or in the RAR for details

@MapleDaddy__ TTV - Took your suggestions and reworked the economy to be less cheatery, hope it is inline with your thoughts.

@grinningsphinx - Incorporated some of your suggestions in this release, your thoughts would be appreciated.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.45 - 01/15/22
Post by: Dazs on January 15, 2022, 05:50:37 AM
Ah sorry I posted the update late last night, forgot to mention that some of the changes require a new game to take effect. Enjoy!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.4 - 01/11/22
Post by: grinningsphinx on January 15, 2022, 09:22:56 AM
Hmm ok that is a lot to digest. I do see your point though, I did use high energy focus on many of the ships and I will go over their layouts and specialize them better. You make a good point about ground support. In my games they seem to go after the luddics with a vengeance but it takes them a bit to take over the planets so I will add a specialized troop transport at your suggestion. As to phase ships well tbh that is sort of my prejudice, I just do not like them or use them in my games. You do make a good point there that I am trying to make this a fun mod for anyone and I could maybe convert some of the current ships to phase, or maybe add a couple.

I do like the play on words with hive mines lol. I do know there are mods that have mines, I would have to do some research to make my own but I like that. By fighters are you referring to their drones: allsup, flyter, gnawler and katydid and if so what holes?

As to making unique effects and special spiriting well that may be beyond my talents. I am no artist and the visuals I use in all my mods are  from other modders who kindly posted their leftovers on spiral arms, I just recolored and or kitbashed them.

I am currently in the process of reworking their economy as suggested by MapleDaddy__ TTV so if you could flesh out your suggestions a wee but more I will work on your ideas next.


Aye, ground support maybe even advanced ground support, because this faction is basically hostile to everyone so they wont be getting any helping hands in invasions lol.  The issue with the fighters is that their heaviest fighter is an 8 point bomber, that really doesnt do its job armed with a single MIRV system:).  Some heavier fighter craft would be appreciated and maybe 2 gunship level stuff. Even with six wings of them they still struggle because the MIRV is such a small system to begin with. Maybe some work with fighter systems?

The econ rework is great!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.45 - 01/15/22
Post by: Dazs on January 15, 2022, 10:54:19 AM
Well I did look over my fighters and realized the Katydid was underpowered so I changed the weapons and increased the flux so it could maintain it's shield AND fire weapons. They really do not have a dedicated drone carrier so I could think about that. As to beefing up their fighter lineup, I do have a low tech advanced drone, practically a mini-frigate, in my other mod JYD so I could do something similar but high tech. Tell you what, I'll design one and you come up with a insect related name to call it. Deal?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.45 - 01/15/22
Post by: grinningsphinx on January 15, 2022, 01:12:58 PM
Well I did look over my fighters and realized the Katydid was underpowered so I changed the weapons and increased the flux so it could maintain it's shield AND fire weapons. They really do not have a dedicated drone carrier so I could think about that. As to beefing up their fighter lineup, I do have a low tech advanced drone, practically a mini-frigate, in my other mod JYD so I could do something similar but high tech. Tell you what, I'll design one and you come up with a insect related name to call it. Deal?

No problem:)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.45 - 01/15/22
Post by: Dazs on January 15, 2022, 04:48:45 PM
I had this guy laying around in my unused asset folder. I touched him up and resized it to just under a frigate. May still be a bit too big but the smaller I go the worse the rez gets. So, not the best resolution but I thing he'll do. I am thinking a mix of a Spitter and a Mirv and maybe a Twin PD but that may be too much (hidden of course) with no shield but a tough hull and armor. Thoughts?

(https://i.imgur.com/SxANtCa.png)

He's an art asset from spiral arms so all credit goes to Tecris, the spriter who made the little guy. :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.45 - 01/15/22
Post by: grinningsphinx on January 15, 2022, 06:13:22 PM
I had this guy laying around in my unused asset folder. I touched him up and resized it to just under a frigate. May still be a bit too big but the smaller I go the worse the rez gets. So, not the best resolution but I thing he'll do. I am thinking a mix of a Spitter and a Mirv and maybe a Twin PD but that may be too much (hidden of course) with no shield but a tough hull and armor. Thoughts?

(https://i.imgur.com/SxANtCa.png)

He's an art asset from spiral arms so all credit goes to Tecris, the spriter who made the little guy. :)

Scorpifly looks good. Best not to go to small, because i can barely see the gnawler etc as is lol. Possible to get biological hull as fighter systems? Not really sure how much itll help them out since fighters usually just get blasted on the opening pass, but cant hurt.  Stuff at 10-20 OP generally have 2 to 3 weapons, 1 system and usually some kinda hull mod.  Past 20 and its usually some kind of specialized thing with low fighters per wing.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.45 - 01/15/22
Post by: Dazs on January 15, 2022, 06:46:46 PM
Well I was thinking a solo flight wing. I'll go with all three weapons and stick in that 10-20 OP range you suggest depending on how buff it is. As to size, I generally struggle with that, I have redone several ships because what looked good in the editor, well no so much in game. Scorpifly is great and I now dub him as such :) 

Now on to making a drone tender. I do not have anything in that vein on deck that is Hiveresque so that may take a minute to make a new ship. I may reimagine the Calopteryx as they are both winged species of hiver. I know I get a lot of flak on discord because not all the ships are one note the same and that is on purpose because the Hivers in SOTS are a blend of races that bonded together. IDK, I have tomorrow off from work I'll come up with something I'm sure.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.45 - 01/15/22
Post by: grinningsphinx on January 16, 2022, 08:59:26 AM
Well I was thinking a solo flight wing. I'll go with all three weapons and stick in that 10-20 OP range you suggest depending on how buff it is. As to size, I generally struggle with that, I have redone several ships because what looked good in the editor, well no so much in game. Scorpifly is great and I now dub him as such :) 

Now on to making a drone tender. I do not have anything in that vein on deck that is Hiveresque so that may take a minute to make a new ship. I may reimagine the Calopteryx as they are both winged species of hiver. I know I get a lot of flak on discord because not all the ships are one note the same and that is on purpose because the Hivers in SOTS are a blend of races that bonded together. IDK, I have tomorrow off from work I'll come up with something I'm sure.

dont worry about discord lol...lots of great people there but some are rabid. If you do remake the Calo, please make it a variant. Im using the standard one as a strike carrier with zero range drone turrets to cover PD.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.45 - 01/15/22
Post by: grinningsphinx on January 16, 2022, 11:45:44 AM
Just as a heads up, it doesnt look like biological hull is working in the simulator. l let the ship sit for 5 mins, and it never repaired about 7025.

Edit..AH okay....so it started to work when i went below 50% of its maximum hullpoints...and then will only repair you up to half of your starting.  Might want to include that in the descrip for BH.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.45 - 01/15/22
Post by: Dazs on January 16, 2022, 02:16:50 PM
Just as a heads up, it doesnt look like biological hull is working in the simulator. l let the ship sit for 5 mins, and it never repaired about 7025.

Edit..AH okay....so it started to work when i went below 50% of its maximum hullpoints...and then will only repair you up to half of your starting.  Might want to include that in the descrip for BH.

Well I never really stated how the regen worked just that it did. That 50% kick in was intended because when I originally designed it at 100% the fights took forever and the ships ran out of CR. I did increase it to 75% this version and did some quick testing. If I find that 75 is too much I may reduce it, it's a work in progress which is why it's 0.5 heh.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.5 - 01/16/22
Post by: Dazs on January 16, 2022, 02:17:40 PM
v0.5 released today - see changelog on OP or in the RAR for details

If you downloaded 0.5 before this post you will need to re-download for the hullmod changes to take effect. I essentially released it then saw grinningsphinx's comment and did a quick fix. :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.5 - 01/16/22
Post by: Futanagatari on January 16, 2022, 03:19:27 PM
0.5 causes a crash on startup
0.45 works fine
starsector.log
Spoiler
84406 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Weapon spec [JYD_srm] not found!
java.lang.RuntimeException: Weapon spec [JYD_srm] not found!
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.o00O.Ô00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.HullVariantSpec.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.oO0000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.public(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.ResourceLoaderState.init(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.5 - 01/16/22
Post by: Dazs on January 16, 2022, 03:42:36 PM
0.5 causes a crash on startup
0.45 works fine
starsector.log
Spoiler
84406 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Weapon spec [JYD_srm] not found!
java.lang.RuntimeException: Weapon spec [JYD_srm] not found!
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.o00O.Ô00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.HullVariantSpec.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.oO0000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.public(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.ResourceLoaderState.init(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[close]

Oopsie that is on me. I accidently assigned JYD missiles to the new drone and if you did not have JYD installed, well you know. Sorry about that, juggling updates on different mods at the same time the editor loads assets from both and my eyes were beginning to cross I guess :) D/L the new hotfix and you should be good.

Anyway v0.55 released
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.5 - 01/16/22
Post by: Futanagatari on January 16, 2022, 04:01:38 PM
0.5 causes a crash on startup
0.45 works fine
starsector.log
Spoiler
84406 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Weapon spec [JYD_srm] not found!
java.lang.RuntimeException: Weapon spec [JYD_srm] not found!
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.o00O.Ô00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.HullVariantSpec.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.oO0000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.public(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.ResourceLoaderState.init(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[close]

Oopsie that is on me. I accidently assigned JYD missiles to the new drone and if you did not have JYD installed, well you know. Sorry about that, juggling updates on different mods at the same time the editor loads assets from both and my eyes were beginning to cross I guess :) D/L the new hotfix and you should be good.

Anyway v0.55 released

dam that was fast
GG
love this mod.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.55 oopise hotfix edition - 01/16/22
Post by: Dazs on January 16, 2022, 06:16:00 PM
NP. I really appreciate when I get feedback and do my best to address concerns. I am so glad to hear you love the mod, I'm no coder and my sprite skills are worse but I got moxie! :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.55 oopise hotfix edition - 01/16/22
Post by: Minitialize on January 17, 2022, 07:25:14 PM
Hello, two things I'd like to ask--

1. is it safe to update the mod without breaking any save file?

2. Hivers are supposed to expand and colonize right? In my playthrough they've been sitting in their corner for years now, only sending in strike missions, no colonization/invasion efforts. Probably just because I'm missing out on an update, but wanted to say it anyway incase this was actually implemented and that there's probably something wrong on my end..

edit: I'm running with Nexerelin, yes.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.55 oopise hotfix edition - 01/16/22
Post by: Dazs on January 18, 2022, 01:36:58 AM
Hello, two things I'd like to ask--

1. is it safe to update the mod without breaking any save file?

2. Hivers are supposed to expand and colonize right? In my playthrough they've been sitting in their corner for years now, only sending in strike missions, no colonization/invasion efforts. Probably just because I'm missing out on an update, but wanted to say it anyway incase this was actually implemented and that there's probably something wrong on my end..

edit: I'm running with Nexerelin, yes.

Yes the latest version is save game compatible. It just fixes an oppsie that I hadn't caught because it was calling for an asset in my other mod JYD and of course I had it installed but if a player didn't it would crash. The actual game patch adds assets that will appear in your save game as if they were always there. I am unsure if the planetary addition will be there because the game generates the system at game start but it shouldn't be a problem either way, worse case scenario your Hivers won't have enough organs to satisfy their gluttony.

As to your second question. They are primarily a conquering race and get their planets from taking them over and the addition of a ground support ship in the latest patch should accelerate that.   Yes I do have them set to colonize and I have seen them send out scouting fleets to find a good planet. Thing is, they are out in the edge of space and they are not friendly with the remnant so it is a challenge for them. I don't know about you but decent planets are hard to find in my games.

I'll try a test run with an "old" system as that should give them a better chance to find a colony and look under the hood to see if I missed something. For now though they are on a mission to eradicate the Lud in my games and that gives me a warm feeling inside. :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.55 oopise hotfix edition - 01/16/22
Post by: Minitialize on January 18, 2022, 04:48:19 PM
Alright, thanks for the response. Good to know there's nothing wrong about their functions.  That said, I might sneak in a couple of survey data to help them accelerate their growth :P . I've been lowkey looking forward to clashing with them after I'd raise my own faction.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.6 - 01/19/22
Post by: Dazs on January 19, 2022, 09:35:43 AM
v0.6 released today - save game compatible

Mostly under the hood or visual changes based on suggestions or comments here and on discord - Changelog on the op or the RAR has details
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.6 - 01/19/22
Post by: Last_Cetra on January 19, 2022, 05:30:46 PM
v0.6 released today - save game compatible

Mostly under the hood or visual changes based on suggestions or comments here and on discord - Changelog on the op or the RAR has details

heya, im getting a ship hull spec not found for JYD cute:

24178 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.LoadingUtils  - Loading JSON from [DIRECTORY: d:\Program Files (x86)\Fractal Softworks\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\Hiver Swarm 0.6 (data\variants\JYD_cute_standard.variant)]
24226 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull spec [JYD_cute] not found!
java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull spec [JYD_cute] not found!
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.oO0OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.HullVariantSpec.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.oO0000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.public(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.ResourceLoaderState.init(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

Any ideas? From what I read, its something to do with the ship data.csv file? im no where near an expert. :p
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.6 - 01/19/22
Post by: Dazs on January 19, 2022, 05:44:30 PM
I am so sorry about that. I tend to work on both faction mods around the same time and I accidently saved a variant file that was meant for JYD in the Hiver folder. Just go to data\variants and you'll see it at the bottom, just delete JYD_cute_standard.variant. I'll upload a fixed version but that should fix your issue w/out having to d/l.

Edit: I uploaded a fixed 0.6 no version change or added note to the changelog. To anyone else, if you have JYD installed you'll be fine but fell free to either delete the file yourself or d/l the new version.

Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.6 - 01/19/22
Post by: Last_Cetra on January 19, 2022, 07:00:29 PM
Very cool, thank you!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.6 - 01/19/22
Post by: grinningsphinx on January 19, 2022, 07:37:13 PM
Okay to submit new hiver weapon names?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.6 - 01/19/22
Post by: Dazs on January 20, 2022, 02:51:59 AM
Oh I am always open to suggestions, some of the best parts of my mods are from players who suggested an idea. In the naming conventions of this mod I try to keep it in an insect theme but yea the weapon names aren't all that and Collaboration is great in my opinion, let's hear em!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.6 - 01/19/22
Post by: grinningsphinx on January 21, 2022, 01:43:04 PM
Oh I am always open to suggestions, some of the best parts of my mods are from players who suggested an idea. In the naming conventions of this mod I try to keep it in an insect theme but yea the weapon names aren't all that and Collaboration is great in my opinion, let's hear em!

kk working on it. The heavy drone is pretty good with some additional hull mods for fighter support.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.6 - 01/19/22
Post by: Dazs on January 21, 2022, 02:07:32 PM
Scorpifly is your baby glad you like it, looking forward to more suggestions!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.6 - 01/19/22
Post by: grinningsphinx on January 26, 2022, 09:51:20 AM
Scorpifly is your baby glad you like it, looking forward to more suggestions!

Hola!

Ill get the names/descriptions hopefully done by this afternoon, barring work related stuff:) One thing i have been thinking about though is a role switch. For a hive fleet im thinking that the Calo should assume the role of strike carrier as the Queen, which is generally the most important ship, gets a ship system like the DME Normandy. I think that ship system calls a "target" and then its fighters gets bonuses for a short duration.

Calo exchanges phase skimmer for recall with Queen to hunt down targets and positioning, Queen gets Strike Command(rename to something else like Fury of the Swarm etc) and secondary conditional system phase recall when 1st system is on cooldown.  Queen will lose mobility but gain superiority whereas the Calo will be able to range on the flanks a bit better. Dont know if this suits the vision but just what I observed using them for awhile.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.6 - 01/19/22
Post by: Dazs on January 26, 2022, 03:28:50 PM
Very nice ideas there. I am working on an update that should be ready by tomorrow, I will incorporate what I can. Collaboration is great!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.7 - 01/26/22
Post by: Dazs on January 26, 2022, 08:12:08 PM
0.7 released today - Mostly save game compatible, see changelog on OP or RAR for details

The changelog is getting a bit long so going forward I will post the current changes on the main page without spoiler tags and the past changelogs with spoiler tags. This should reduce clutter while also making the most relevant changes easily available.

@grinningsphinx I looked over your suggestions but have not worked on them, I wanted to get the changes I have been making out tonight. I have not delved into custom ship systems on either of my faction mods so that may take a bit of deep diving.

Enjoy!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.7 - 01/26/22
Post by: amimai on January 27, 2022, 04:00:47 AM
You have bits missing in config/settings.json
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.7 - 01/26/22
Post by: Dazs on January 27, 2022, 05:19:05 AM
You have bits missing in config/settings.json

I admit I have not updated this file since the initial release other than splitting up the original bp package and replacing it with these 5

{
   "designTypeColors":{
      "HIVER":[11,102,35,200],
    },

    "graphics":{   

       "blueprint_packages":{
            "hiversmall_package":"graphics/HIVER/icons/cargo/hiver_blueprint.png",
            "hivermedium_package":"graphics/HIVER/icons/cargo/hiver_blueprint.png",
            "hiverlarge_package":"graphics/HIVER/icons/cargo/hiver_blueprint.png",
            "hiverwing_package":"graphics/HIVER/icons/cargo/hiver_blueprint.png",
            "hiverweapon_package":"graphics/HIVER/icons/cargo/hiver_blueprint.png",         
        },      
       "illustrations":{
            "HIVER_diplomatic":"graphics/HIVER/illustrations/HIVER_diplomatic.jpg",
            "HIVER_hanger":"graphics/HIVER/illustrations/HIVER_hanger.jpg",         
         
        },
            },      
}

What portions do you believe the mod is missing, I am always grateful for input to make the mod tuned and more complete.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.7 - 01/26/22
Post by: amimai on January 27, 2022, 05:25:23 AM
not sure if its an issue on my end or not, my system is behaving weirdly
Spoiler
17185 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Error loading [graphics/HIVER/portraits/Hiver_1.png] resource, not found in [/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Slightly Better Techmining,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Better Deserved S-Mods,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/DetailedCombatResults,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/DIABLEAVIONICS,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/DroneLib,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/FleetSizeByDP,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Forge Production,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/GachaSMods v1.5.0,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Hiver Swarm 0.7,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Interstellar Imperium,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Kadur Remnant,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/LazyLib,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Legacy of Arkgneisis,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/MagicLib,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Nexerelin,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Progressive S-Mods,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Ruthless Sector,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/SCY,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Shadowyards,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Ship and Weapon Pack,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/starpocalypse,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Superweapons Arsenal,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/tahlan-shipworks,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Terraforming and Station Construction,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/VIC,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Vayra's Ship Pack,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/GraphicsLib,../starfarer.res/res,CLASSPATH]
java.lang.RuntimeException: Error loading [graphics/HIVER/portraits/Hiver_1.png] resource, not found in [/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Slightly Better Techmining,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Better Deserved S-Mods,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/DetailedCombatResults,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/DIABLEAVIONICS,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/DroneLib,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/FleetSizeByDP,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Forge Production,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/GachaSMods v1.5.0,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Hiver Swarm 0.7,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Interstellar Imperium,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Kadur Remnant,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/LazyLib,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Legacy of Arkgneisis,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/MagicLib,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Nexerelin,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Progressive S-Mods,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Ruthless Sector,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/SCY,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Shadowyards,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Ship and Weapon Pack,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/starpocalypse,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Superweapons Arsenal,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/tahlan-shipworks,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Terraforming and Station Construction,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/VIC,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/Vayra's Ship Pack,/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/./mods/GraphicsLib,../starfarer.res/res,CLASSPATH]
   at com.fs.util.Object.Object(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.util.Object.Ô00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader.Ô00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.graphics.G.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.ResourceLoaderState.init(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[close]
possibly to many mods?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.7 - 01/26/22
Post by: Dazs on January 27, 2022, 08:02:31 AM
Error loading [graphics/HIVER/portraits/Hiver_1.png] resource, not found in [/home/sophia/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6

Leads me to believe you are running the game on Linux. I am not too familiar with that operating system but in Windows portraits are loaded from: mods/Hiver Swarm 0.7/data/world/HIVER.faction not config/settings.json. I have checked the pathing and it does link correctly under Windows. Maybe you are missing the image file requested. Do you have a file located in: mods/Hiver Swarm 0.7/graphics/HIVER/portraits labeled HIVER_1.png?

Should look like this gal:
 (https://i.imgur.com/oxKUS8t.png)

Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.7 - 01/26/22
Post by: amimai on January 27, 2022, 08:25:46 AM
yes its there, very odd.

@GeneralPurpose:~/Downloads/starsector_linux-0.95.1a-RC6/starsector/mods/Hiver Swarm 0.7/graphics/HIVER/portraits$ dir
HIVER_1.png  HIVER_5.png  HIVER_9.png        HIVER_prince.png
HIVER_2.png  HIVER_6.png  HIVER_emperor.png  HIVER_queen.png
HIVER_3.png  HIVER_7.png  HIVER_firebug.png  HIVER_warrior.png
HIVER_4.png  HIVER_8.png  HIVER_hidden.png   HIVER_worker.png
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.7 - 01/26/22
Post by: Dazs on January 27, 2022, 09:37:10 AM
I haven't updated either that portrait or the section of the file that calls for it since version v0.35 and with Linux's file tree structure being so different I am at a bit of a loss. I cannot imagine a conflict with another mod that calls for HIVER_1 and I run pretty much all the faction mods in my personal game to ensure compatibility. Perhaps one of the users of this mod reading this post and uses Linux could weigh in.

Did this error start when you updated to 0.7 or did you add/update another mod since installing 0.7?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.7 - 01/26/22
Post by: amimai on January 27, 2022, 10:23:32 AM
this is actually first install of this mod
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.7 - 01/26/22
Post by: grinningsphinx on January 27, 2022, 02:41:35 PM
Apologies, i meant Target Datalink from the Jeanne'D Arc, DME.   Thats the one i was thinking of(the larger of the two carriers) This one i believe works for all allied fighters and fighter-like things.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.7a - 01/29/22
Post by: Dazs on January 29, 2022, 08:00:16 PM
a 0.7 save game compatible quick hotfix out today 0.7a - Simplified and re-drew the boundaries on all Hiver ships to prevent a rare crash


Apologies, i meant Target Datalink from the Jeanne'D Arc, DME.   Thats the one i was thinking of(the larger of the two carriers) This one i believe works for all allied fighters and fighter-like things.

Noted, I've been a bit busy with the other mods and r/l stuff but I'll look into it when I can. Thank you for the update.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.7a - 01/29/22
Post by: gentulf on February 01, 2022, 11:50:00 AM
Some suggestions:

Doing the above would make them feel more like their own thing, instead of this weird "just another faction but not really". That said, I do not know how doable that is.
I am wondering about if their weapons should be present in places like the Prism port but considering that they are very expensive it seems fine. Maybe this should be done the way Nexerelin does Remnant contacts via an NPC? It would be more work to implement this of course.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.7a - 01/29/22
Post by: Dazs on February 01, 2022, 12:51:57 PM
Thank you for your feedback, always nice to hear from an interested player. I will take your points one at a time and try to address them best I can:

I like the idea of labeling their weapons specific to their faction. I am unsure if that can be a thing but I will surely look into it

I agree about the bounty thing, it bothers me as well. I have made them unplayable and hate everyone even the player. It is an aspect of NEX and a couple other mods (if you use them) that determines bounties. I will go under the hood and see what I can do.

I currently have them flagged to NOT show up on the intel tab. I'll look into the best buy/best sell and see

OH the NPC thing I really do not get myself. Why would a faction that hates hivers and the hivers hate them send you on a relief mission for them? I guess I have more research to do.

Ah the prism freeport. I have tried to tinker with that but the best I could do was break down their technology into several blueprint subsets and jack up the price to limit player availability. My goal is to make their ships and tech desirable but hard to obtain.

Well I just tuned up JYD so I guess my next block of free time is deep diving these concerns. I agree with your points and thank you for taking the time to list them.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.75 - 02/02/22
Post by: Dazs on February 02, 2022, 02:23:00 PM
V0.75 out today

This update addresses the concerns that gentulf brought to my attention the best I could. I went through every mod I could think of that offers missions and bounties and added blacklists or AI tags preventing Hivers from being used as a mission target or offering missions. Changelog has the details and if you know of a mod that I haven't blocked please let me know.

Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.75 - 02/02/22
Post by: gogis on February 03, 2022, 07:01:03 AM
Can you please update your mod for version checker, or even better - for mod manager? I love these mods with evil faction lurking somewhere, but updating unsupported mods is PITA
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.75 - 02/02/22
Post by: gentulf on February 03, 2022, 09:57:36 AM
Another idea related to Hivers being secretive — there is probably some way to prevent their ships from showing up in Codex and battle simulations, it’s done for Remnant ships after all.
Also I don’t know what mod is this from but I found those factories that you can sacrifice ships to to get a different ship. It just so happened that I got Hiver ships twice in a row (a Queen class even, but I reloaded that save anyway) — noting this just in case it’s also undesirable.

One small detail as well: their home system should probably not be literally called “Homehive”, unless humans are supposed to know where their home is exactly. It should just have a generic star system name.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.75 - 02/02/22
Post by: Dazs on February 03, 2022, 01:03:54 PM
Can you please update your mod for version checker, or even better - for mod manager? I love these mods with evil faction lurking somewhere, but updating unsupported mods is PITA
Hello there! I tinkered with version checker but had some issues with it in the past. I'll look into it again this weekend, I'm a bit more knowledgeable about the code structure now so I'm sure I'll get it.  I'm a cleaver monkey after all, just ask any hiver. :)
Another idea related to Hivers being secretive — there is probably some way to prevent their ships from showing up in Codex and battle simulations, it’s done for Remnant ships after all.
I'm pretty certain I can hide them in the codex with a hint tag in the ships.csv, I'll add that for the next update. I have them in the battle sims for the players who alter the mod to make them playable. I could take them out but I try to balance it between the players that want them strictly as enemies and the ones that want to be hivers. I was actually kind of surprised I had received so many private messages asking for the playable option when I first released it to be honest. I guess I could make a second file with them in it and the main file with them out like I do the player file. Added to the list
Also I don’t know what mod is this from but I found those factories that you can sacrifice ships to to get a different ship. It just so happened that I got Hiver ships twice in a row (a Queen class even, but I reloaded that save anyway) — noting this just in case it’s also undesirable.
I have come across the factory sacrifice so I know it is part of a mod I run, just not sure which one atm. That change would take some research to see if exclusion is a thing - maybe? next update.
One small detail as well: their home system should probably not be literally called “Homehive”, unless humans are supposed to know where their home is exactly. It should just have a generic star system name.
That is a decent point. That name was kind of just a placeholder and I never changed it. Easy enough to pick a hiver name like the other system - added to the .8 update list

Thank you both for this great feedback, I get some of the best ideas from players and that makes me so happy. I am currently working on some fixes for my other faction mod so once I bang that out I'll get on these, probably Sunday if my schedule allows.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.75 - 02/02/22
Post by: gentulf on February 05, 2022, 04:07:05 AM
By the way, the factory sacrifice is probably Industrial.Evolution because it has those "scavenging interactions" but the author blurred them to not spoil what they actually are.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.75 - 02/02/22
Post by: Dazs on February 05, 2022, 05:14:20 AM
Thanks for the hint. I will be working on the mod this afternoon and that saves me some sleuth time, much appreciated.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.8 - 02/06/22
Post by: Dazs on February 06, 2022, 07:05:46 AM
0.8 out today - Tested with a .75 save with no apparent issues.  I was able to address most of the concerns brought up here and on discord. Essentially more exclusions, some balance changes and a Cyborg fashion show! - Changelog on the OP and in the RAR has the details

By the way, the factory sacrifice is probably Industrial.Evolution because it has those "scavenging interactions" but the author blurred them to not spoil what they actually are.

@gentulf  - I had originally thought it was an aspect of Nex but after some research I found you were correct. I was unable to address your concern but I have a question out on the Industrial Evolution forum so I am still looking into it. I'll get back to you once I know if is actually a thing that can be done.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.8 - 02/06/22
Post by: Fuegoredux on February 09, 2022, 05:52:51 PM
Where is the aggression and colonization? I finished a run where the Hive sat in their corner and twiddled their thumbs for 20 cycles. Before installing I dreamed of them swarming the sector and expanding like the Zerg. Sadly I am left unsatisfied. Ships and weapons are fun to run/fight against though.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.8 - 02/06/22
Post by: Dazs on February 09, 2022, 06:11:01 PM
Well the thing with colonization is that NEX picks from a pool of factions. The more faction mods installed the smaller chance any one faction has. I have them set to the highest chance to be picked but so do some other modded factions. I'll reach out to Histidine and see if there is anything else I can code in that would make them better colonizers.

As to their aggression, they are set to the maximum amount of hate and aggression toward every faction. In the games I've played they have taken over both Ludic factions (separate games) so I know they do send out aggressive invasion fleets. The problem from what I've been told is that they are so far away and have so few starting assets compared to other factions it takes them longer to expand.

I will look into it but overall I try to make them a mid game challenge that is sought out, not so much an end game one that conquers the map. But I am new to all this and will be the first to say I'm a noob. I am sure there is something I can do about it so I'll do a deep dive and see what I can do.

Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.8 - 02/06/22
Post by: Omega_DarkPotato on February 12, 2022, 05:06:33 PM
Heya! Couldn't find the exact crash logs to post, but I believe that for some reason you're looking for (the new home system name)_background.jpg instead of homehive_background.jpg for the home system of the hivers - crashed twice in the latest version trying to enter their home system before taking a look myself and renaming the background to the system name on my save.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.8 - 02/06/22
Post by: Dazs on February 12, 2022, 05:38:49 PM
Oh my you are correct thank you for catching it. I'm working on some tweaks for the mod but I'll just bundle what I have so far with that fix and have it up tonight.

Thank you for the report.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.85 - 02/12/22
Post by: Dazs on February 12, 2022, 06:51:48 PM
v0.85 released - 0.8 Save Compatible however most changes require a new sector generation and will only take effect on a new game - Changelog has the details

Note: I have only tested all the increased threat changes up to an early/mid game run. I wanted to get a crash hotfix regarding a naming mismatch out tonight so the increased threat release has not been fully tested during a complete game. They seemed to be more aggressive and everything should go as planned but yea you know how that goes. Please let me know if you feel I over tuned them.

Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.85 - 02/12/22
Post by: IGdood on February 18, 2022, 11:23:30 AM
One sea of red
It's like I'm fighting Zerg/Tyranids or something

(https://i.imgur.com/g8j9zmy.png)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.85 - 02/12/22
Post by: Dazs on February 18, 2022, 02:47:29 PM
Beware the Swarm!  ;)

I received a lot of feedback that they were just sitting in their little corner of the map so I tweaked every setting I could find to make them more aggressive this patch. I released it before a full test run to get a hotfix out and umm maybe I tuned them up a little too much. I was spending most of last week updating JYD so my game is not that progressed but at about 3-4 hours in I am noticing an increase of their invasion fleets but not at crazy levels. For me they seem to be methodically focused on the systems on the side of the map they are on and not random scatter throughout the sector.

The mix is about right for how I have them set up, a couple heavies to block and a lot of destroyers/frigates to skirmish so that looks about right. If you don't mind my asking, is this screen capture from an invasion fleet or from you going into one of their sectors and how far along into the game hour wise what this taken?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.85 - 02/12/22
Post by: IGdood on February 18, 2022, 02:56:00 PM
Beware the Swarm!  ;)

I received a lot of feedback that they were just sitting in their little corner of the map so I tweaked every setting I could find to make them more aggressive this patch. I released it before a full test run to get a hotfix out and umm maybe I tuned them up a little too much. I was spending most of last week updating JYD so my game is not that progressed but at about 3-4 hours in I am noticing an increase of their invasion fleets but not at crazy levels. For me they seem to be methodically focused on the systems on the side of the map they are on and not random scatter throughout the sector.

The mix is about right for how I have them set up, a couple heavies to block and a lot of destroyers/frigates to skirmish so that looks about right. If you don't mind my asking, is this screen capture from an invasion fleet or from you going into one of their sectors and how far along into the game hour wise what this taken?

I had increased battle size, and this is from me going into their little corner of the map about 1.5 cycles into the game. 


I let them get too close, and they penetrated my lines.  What could've been a meatgrinder turned into a partial rout on my end and I had to send in reserves just to push them back. 
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.85 - 02/12/22
Post by: Dazs on February 18, 2022, 05:07:34 PM
Ok that sounds about right then. I would not suggest going into their territory unless you have ships to loose. I tuned them to be more of a challenge than pirates and random ai but not as much as ordos fleets. I am running a game to test both mods atm so I appreciate the feedback.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.85 - 02/12/22
Post by: memeextremist on March 15, 2022, 10:23:54 PM
Hi! first of all, I really like your mod. I have a question though. I started a new game with playable faction turned on, did the hiver start in nex, dropped it, allied hiver, and then invaded one planet from another faction and they turned -75. is this intended? it says I'm still in the alliance. I'm not sure if this is a nex problem or not, so asking here. Thanks in advance.

Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.85 - 02/12/22
Post by: Dazs on March 16, 2022, 03:08:35 AM
Hello there glad you like the mod. If I understand your question correctly, you followed the instructions on the main page and made them playable, started off with a Hiver commission then left the Hivers and joined another faction.

If that is the case well I am honestly not 100% sure as I never ran it through that scenario. Hivers as a faction are hard coded to be enemies to all including the player. I have an exception in for players who are actively commissioned as Hivers that they have an override that starts them with some factions as neutral to friendly and are able to gain or lose reputation based on their actions.

At a guess I would say that the issue is that when starting as a Hiver you worked for a faction that you were friendly with till the point they allowed you to join. When you left the Hiver faction and joined the other faction the game reverted to the base behavior for Hivers, you lost all goodwill toward them and they targeted you like the dirty traitor that you are. (jk) :)

Now of course if I gamed that scenario incorrectly then my analysis is probably way wrong so please let me know.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.85 - 02/12/22
Post by: memeextremist on March 16, 2022, 12:23:15 PM
lol nah. I just cancelled my hiver commission, allied hiver in nexerelin, then conquered an enemy planet and they went hostile despite me still being in their alliance. it's probably a nex thing. thanks! \o
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.85 - 02/12/22
Post by: Dazs on March 16, 2022, 12:25:48 PM
Yea same idea. Once you drop your commission with them they are unforgiving and will revert to hating any non-Hiver.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.85 - 02/12/22
Post by: memeextremist on March 16, 2022, 04:40:28 PM
roger that. thanks again!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.85 - 02/12/22
Post by: vcuaoiwk on March 17, 2022, 06:55:14 PM
Just a few comments:

Pros: Love the concept and the terrifying-ness of the swarm. Honestly they're currently sweeping through my playthrough and smashing most of the factions. This is great considering I saw the earlier feedback that the hive was not expanding or being active in the sector. They're even responding to Luddic Path threats and sending out strike missions. (I'm running a hodgepodge of mods 3-4 factions, Nex, bunch of QOL mods and such).

Request/Cons: Is there a way to prevent Hiver blueprints from spawning in the sector? I got my hands on some BP's and been able to outfit a few ships with some of the goodies..... and well theyre amazing but jesus they are overtuned to the point where I feel that I can't use them because yes building them is expensive but not prohibitive enough for their outputs.

Possible solutions for overtuned weapons for this specific faction mod (I'm going to throw the following out but not sure how code intensive it would be to create any of the following):
- The easiest would be to make them incompatible with non hive ships - but this wouldnt be very fun
- Creating a prohibitive cost for usage in any of the following scenarios
-- Large combat readiness depreciation if not used on a Hive Ship (similar to plague weapons)
-- i.e. weapons usage is tied into crew depreciation (i.e. similar to fighters but active usage acculates crew deaths). The Ghost Gallon bounty in Nex has a similar feature for hyperspace travel
-- Amping up the weapons cost to something in the 100,000 of thousands of credits (basically prohibiting constructing them until mid/late game)

Anyway those are my thoughts. Love the mod. Love the fear theyre creating when see a Hive swarm. Thrilled to see it working as advertised as well. Thanks!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.85 - 02/12/22
Post by: memeextremist on March 17, 2022, 07:31:03 PM
ooh I found out something cool with this and nex. I went back to a previous playthrough save that didn't have hiver flagged as a playable faction when I made it, and since I had already done that with the newer character, I can invade a planet and just spawn them by transferring.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.85 - 02/12/22
Post by: Dazs on March 17, 2022, 08:12:05 PM
Just a few comments:

Pros: Love the concept and the terrifying-ness of the swarm. Honestly they're currently sweeping through my playthrough and smashing most of the factions. This is great considering I saw the earlier feedback that the hive was not expanding or being active in the sector. They're even responding to Luddic Path threats and sending out strike missions. (I'm running a hodgepodge of mods 3-4 factions, Nex, bunch of QOL mods and such).

Request/Cons: Is there a way to prevent Hiver blueprints from spawning in the sector? I got my hands on some BP's and been able to outfit a few ships with some of the goodies..... and well theyre amazing but jesus they are overtuned to the point where I feel that I can't use them because yes building them is expensive but not prohibitive enough for their outputs.

Possible solutions for overtuned weapons for this specific faction mod (I'm going to throw the following out but not sure how code intensive it would be to create any of the following):
- The easiest would be to make them incompatible with non hive ships - but this wouldnt be very fun
- Creating a prohibitive cost for usage in any of the following scenarios
-- Large combat readiness depreciation if not used on a Hive Ship (similar to plague weapons)
-- i.e. weapons usage is tied into crew depreciation (i.e. similar to fighters but active usage acculates crew deaths). The Ghost Gallon bounty in Nex has a similar feature for hyperspace travel
-- Amping up the weapons cost to something in the 100,000 of thousands of credits (basically prohibiting constructing them until mid/late game)

Anyway those are my thoughts. Love the mod. Love the fear theyre creating when see a Hive swarm. Thrilled to see it working as advertised as well. Thanks!

I'm happy to hear you are enjoying it. I did a tuning balance last update to address the earlier concerns players had posted about them not being aggressive enough and boy are they a threat to  any faction that is on the left side of the map. As a side note I play with pretty much all the current faction mods so I can test for compatibility and I like that when they take over a factions' planet all that faction's allies swarm take it back from the Hivers. I'm pretty happy with the current tuning giving a sense of impending doom if you allow them to keep invading.

OK so as to your concerns. As a part of the game I sort of had to give them blueprints. I did break them down into several packs to dilute them, put it as many blacklists as I could to prevent them being for sale and also raised the price of all their assets. Also, I gave them a high chance to break up when defeated but I can increase it a bit more to make their ships more of a rare recovery. Since they are now more of a threat, I'll look over raising the price of their ships and weapons again.

I do not think that I could make their weapons Hiver ship only, if there is a way I'd like to hear from a more experienced mod author.

Thank you for the feedback, you've given me some food for thought.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.85 - 02/12/22
Post by: alaricdragon on March 20, 2022, 11:50:00 PM
this mod looks amazing I cant wait to fight the bugs. not even going to look at the screenshots (i looked at some for like 4 seconds, just to be sure) so im surprised (mostly) wish me luck
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.85 - 02/12/22
Post by: Dazs on March 21, 2022, 03:27:04 AM
/cheers!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.85a - 04/01/22
Post by: Dazs on April 01, 2022, 11:42:37 AM
v0.85a released today - Save Compatible from 0.85
   -Raised the break point of all Hiver ships to 60% for the smaller up to 90% for the larger to make them less recoverable
   -Raised the base cost of all Hiver assets by ~25% to make them more of a prize and more expensive to rebuild- TY vcuaoiwk for this and the above idea
   -A code update to fix a compatibility crash when using Linux - TY Phantasia for bringing this to my attention

Been a couple months since the last balance update but other than maybe updating the sprite work I feel good about the current state of the mod. Any comments or suggestions, feel free to contact me here on in discord, I check each daily.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.85a - 04/01/22
Post by: DialecticDetective on April 06, 2022, 04:29:52 PM
Funny story, I was an intern on Sword of the Stars.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.85a - 04/01/22
Post by: Dazs on April 06, 2022, 04:55:45 PM
That is awesome I am a huge fan of the game. I named one of the ships in the new mod I am making the Kerberos :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.85a - 04/01/22
Post by: DialecticDetective on April 20, 2022, 01:11:35 PM
That is awesome I am a huge fan of the game. I named one of the ships in the new mod I am making the Kerberos :)

Nice!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.85a - 04/01/22
Post by: vok3 on April 24, 2022, 10:48:54 AM
I was a lurker on the quartertothree forums back around the time of the SotS2 launch. 

I was really impressed with how when the game came out, people started saying "hey wtf", Mecron rushed in "It's okay folks!  We'll patch!"  Patch comes out, fixes very little, breaks more, players are more "hey wtf".  Mecron rushes in: "More patches!  More patches!!!"  Patches fix nothing meaningful.  Mecron: "OH I get it now guys, we released THE WRONG VERSION!  We'll put up the RIGHT version and EVERYTHING will be FINE!  Okay, try it now!"  Players: "hey wtf, ***'s still broke" 

Repeat round and round a few more times until finally Mecron had this great emotive breakdown where he attempted to claim that the stress of releasing all these patches had retroactively borked their systems and broken the functional version of the game and now everybody would just have to wait a month for a real patch.  Players: "dude, version control doesn't work that way, you were just lying this whole time, weren't you?  the game wasn't done, we get it, just stop lying to us" 

But Mecron was not capable of stopping himself from lying.  Just could not admit it.

And for a truly proper ending to the saga, the publisher refunded anybody who wanted one but said "look, we paid that studio for a functional game, they've been paid, if you want a functional game you need to talk to them".  And Mecron: "Oh, we'll GLADLY work some more on this but we don't work for free you know!  The publisher needs to pay us more before we do anything!"

Complete and total lack of responsibility or honesty or fair dealing of any sort.

It is fitting and proper that they have been relegated to dinky little mobile games ever since.  From what I understand there is not a single publisher anywhere that will trust them.  Understandably.

But as far as the mod goes:

When I looked at this a few weeks back, the Hive planets were spamming the market with requests for certain commodities, making it impossible to tell which of the core worlds actually needed those commodities.  (Unless you install Stellar Networks, which is a good mod but has a huge overhead so I don't use it)  Also I kept getting mission givers who wanted me to take stuff to Hiver planets.  Dude, no; they want to eat my liver.  If Hivers could be made into something more like the Remnant - completely disconnected from the human-world economy and society - that would solve my major problem with this mod. 

Also I actually kinda think the ships shouldn't be so explicitly bug-like.  When humans make spaceships, do they look like flying monkeys?  No?  Why not?  Why would bug spacers make flying bug spacecraft?  Bug design, yes; flying space bugs, maybe not so much.

I like the idea though.  (SotS1 wasn't a terrible game, except for the space dolphins - always kill the space dolphins)  The other thing that might work as a source of ideas is the Symbiots from Emperor of the Fading Suns (it's on GOG, but you might be able to find it some abandonware sites as well).  I think it's Matt Caspermeyer who figured out how to hack the executable to make the Symbiots build spaceships, which means they immediately start assaulting the Stigmata garrison, which means the players need to actively cooperate to try to hold them back from invading the rest of the map.  Made for a genuinely interesting alien threat.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.85a - 04/01/22
Post by: Dazs on April 24, 2022, 01:14:35 PM
You pretty much summed up my love/hate relationship with those game. I have over a thousand hours played on SWOTS with a blend of vanilla and modded gameplay. Swots 2 is the only game I had pre-ordered based on my love of the first game. It sits on my HD awaiting for it to be fixed....

But as far as the mod goes:

When I looked at this a few weeks back, the Hive planets were spamming the market with requests for certain commodities, making it impossible to tell which of the core worlds actually needed those commodities.  (Unless you install Stellar Networks, which is a good mod but has a huge overhead so I don't use it)  Also I kept getting mission givers who wanted me to take stuff to Hiver planets.  Dude, no; they want to eat my liver.  If Hivers could be made into something more like the Remnant - completely disconnected from the human-world economy and society - that would solve my major problem with this mod. 
I have done my best to add as many "black lists" as I could to block various interactions. To make them 100% disconnected from the galaxy I believe I would have to disable the ability for them to colonize and invade. Those are core concepts to the mod but if there is a way to only have them interact with Nex with just those two features, I would if I could. Prv Starworks has a race of aliens, the Agni, which behave more like you describe and they are quite the challenge, you may want to check their mod out.

Also I actually kinda think the ships shouldn't be so explicitly bug-like.  When humans make spaceships, do they look like flying monkeys?  No?  Why not?  Why would bug spacers make flying bug spacecraft?  Bug design, yes; flying space bugs, maybe not so much.
I struggle with that over the months since I released the mod. I would say the number one complaint I see on discord is that players hate the sprite work. If you look at the Hiver ships in SWOTS they are armored bugs and my initial inspiration for Hiver Swarm was when I saw Tecris' and Xenoargh's sprites on Spiral Arms 2. I have added some non-bug but still non-vanilla ships since then to fill out their roster so I am not opposed to the idea of non-bug ships.

I have learned a lot about sprite making and kit bashing since I released JYD and Hiver Swarm. I have updated several blurry mess JYD sprites since then but hesitate to change those initial bug Hiver designs simply because I really like them. Personally I still think their sprite work is freaky awesome (I only re-colored them to have a cohesive theme with both their art) but I also know that art is, by nature, subjective.

I'll take a pass at releasing an alternate addon that replaces those bug sprites for players like yourself that dislike them but it may be awhile. I have another faction mod just released on the Modding forum for testing and I am sure that will take up my foreseeable free time as I tweak and tune that one.

I like the idea though.  (SotS1 wasn't a terrible game, except for the space dolphins - always kill the space dolphins)  The other thing that might work as a source of ideas is the Symbiots from Emperor of the Fading Suns (it's on GOG, but you might be able to find it some abandonware sites as well).  I think it's Matt Caspermeyer who figured out how to hack the executable to make the Symbiots build spaceships, which means they immediately start assaulting the Stigmata garrison, which means the players need to actively cooperate to try to hold them back from invading the rest of the map.  Made for a genuinely interesting alien threat.

I always found the Liir a bit smug and rarely allied with them so I get that. I am an old school gamer but I am unaware of Emperor of the Fading Sun but I will certainly check it out.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.9 - 05/08/22 - Graphic updates and balance changes
Post by: Dazs on May 08, 2022, 02:22:22 PM
v0.9 released today.

It is full of player requested graphical updates (most are optional) and some balance changes that *should* make Hivers more aggressive.
There is a new spoiler linked image on the OP that shows all the optional replacement graphics included in the download as an embedded RAR.

Changelog in the RAR and posted on the forum main page has all the details and instructions to install the optional graphics



Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.9 - 05/08/22 - Graphic updates and balance changes
Post by: Dazs on May 08, 2022, 04:03:39 PM
Quick oopsie minor update. When I looked over the Beetle replacement sprite on the white background on the forum OP, I noticed that I must have accidently ran the eraser across the bottom when I was designing it. I did a quick fix and replaced the graphic in the embedded RAR and on the forum OP picture. So if you downloaded 0.9 previous to this post and want to use the updated ship graphics just re-download and re-install the "Replacement Ships.rar" for the fixed graphic.

Sorry about that!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.95 - 05/15/22 - Graphic updates and error corrections
Post by: Dazs on May 15, 2022, 06:47:14 AM
v0.95 release today - Save Game compatible with version 0.9

Two new ships, four new optional replacement ship sprites added to the imbedded RAR, a new weapon, some base graphic updates and some error corrections. As always, the Changelog has the details and is posted on the Forum OP as well as included in the RAR.

Doing my best to fix past mistakes and update early graphics. I do hope you enjoy the changes and please contact me on the forum or in discord if you have any comments or suggestions. I want this faction mod to be a challenge without being an eyesore :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.95 - 05/15/22 - Graphic updates and error corrections
Post by: nukularpower on May 16, 2022, 07:28:37 PM
I dig the new sprites.  Very cool
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.95 - 05/15/22 - Graphic updates and error corrections
Post by: Dazs on May 17, 2022, 01:20:37 AM
I dig the new sprites.  Very cool

Thank you, that is so nice to hear.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.95 - 05/15/22 - Graphic updates and error corrections
Post by: danando123 on May 18, 2022, 11:28:49 PM
I see a reaper ship, i see download
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.95 - 05/15/22 - Graphic updates and error corrections
Post by: Dazs on May 19, 2022, 04:10:07 AM
I see a reaper ship, i see download

Heh nice! - Credit to Xenoargh for donating the initial sprite. I just re-colored and added the landing lights on that one but still nice to hear someone likes the old sprites :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.96 - 06/19/22 - Aggression increase, beware the swarm
Post by: Dazs on June 19, 2022, 11:00:41 AM
v0.96 released today -Save compatible with V 0.95 - Changelog in the RAR and on the Forum OP has the details but in short, Histidine was kind enough to give me some guidance to better integrate Hiver Swarm with Nex. They will now be picked in the lottery for colony fleets and are far more aggressive in their conquest of the sector. If you currently have them set to be playable, revisit the instructions on the forum OP as the method has changed due to the code changes - I recommend a new game start to take advantage of all changes. 

See below for my experiences playing against them if you are interested
Spoiler
I loaded a save from an established game and noticed the increase but it was really noticeable when I started a new game. I play with pretty much every mod faction enabled to ensure compatibility with my mods and within a short time they were sending multiple fleets to various faction systems. I eventually defeated them but I had to wait till JYD (the faction I was playing as) sent an invasion against them and joined them for cover. Tactics may vary on skill level, I am not that great a player :)
[close]
I updated the forum OP with direct links and cleaned it up a little. There is now a "Buy me a coffee" link to Ko-Fi. I offer all my mods for free and the code is open source but it was a player requested feature so use it or not, I do not expect anything for my work. Enjoy!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.96 - 06/19/22 - Aggression increase, beware the swarm
Post by: derrzzedd on July 03, 2022, 06:39:24 AM
Having played around with the mod for... around six hours or so, i've noted some things:
firstly, both the ships and weapons the swarm has are hillariously strong and many are overpowered.
Highly accurate, extremely flux efficient, highly damaging projectile weaponry, backed up with infinite ammo sabot-esque swarmer kinetic missile launchers, equipped on ships that are both durable and often using very strong abilities (like the temporal field ability) for an OP cost often comparable to weaponry much weaker than the swarm's equipment does not necessarily make for a balanced faction.

which, you know, if you want them to be a lategame esque enemy faction that's fully understandable.
however, the addition of having them launch full invasion fleets into the core kind of puts that concept into a tailspin, as this results in the player encountering the bugs very often, and very early - especially given the efficacy of their invasion fleets, of which there are extremely many, and they very often succeed.
i've played just past one ingame cycle, and have reached the grand level of 5 - and so far there's been 2 successful invasions(cibola and Salamanca), one failed(sindria), there's 2 more on the way (gilead and ancyra) along with a saturation bombardment headed for Madeira, alongside numerous raids.
out of all of these, there was not a single one ranked below 'superior' in terms of swarm vs defender strength, and sindria only won on the ground.
this intense aggression leads to the player encountering the swarm very often - and unless the player gets both very lucky and plays incredibly well, they will not be able to stop them before they make massive inroads into the core sector systems.
while i do absolutely love the concept of this mod, it feels a bit too imbalanced - and if one wants to keep the power imbalance, maybe instead of superior ships and firepower, they'd simply have much more ships than the opposing force? a change such as that would both make sense given the swarm moniker and style, as well - to draw from history, making them the shermans to the player's tiger tanks would feel very fitting ("a German Tiger is easily worth 10 shermans, but they always had 11!").

the sprites also look a bit... fuzzy, compared to other ships and equipment in the game - but only some of them. iunno if that's just my install.

in short:
really cool idea, but the bugs are pretty overpowered and would probably need some work on that. sick mod though, definitively one to keep an eye on.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.96 - 06/19/22 - Aggression increase, beware the swarm
Post by: Dazs on July 03, 2022, 10:27:51 AM
First off, hello there and thank you for your informative reply.
Having played around with the mod for... around six hours or so, i've noted some things:
firstly, both the ships and weapons the swarm has are hillariously strong and many are overpowered.
Highly accurate, extremely flux efficient, highly damaging projectile weaponry, backed up with infinite ammo sabot-esque swarmer kinetic missile launchers, equipped on ships that are both durable and often using very strong abilities (like the temporal field ability) for an OP cost often comparable to weaponry much weaker than the swarm's equipment does not necessarily make for a balanced faction.
Well the balance of their ships has been an ongoing tug of war some complaining they were too easy and others that they were too hard. The vision for them is to be a nuisance at first but as the game progresses they become a threat and if left alone for too long a major takeover in the sector. To archive that while also being the enemy of every faction, they needed to be OP to handle the multiple invasions against them. The more modded factions you have in your game, the harder it is for them.
which, you know, if you want them to be a lategame esque enemy faction that's fully understandable.
however, the addition of having them launch full invasion fleets into the core kind of puts that concept into a tailspin, as this results in the player encountering the bugs very often, and very early - especially given the efficacy of their invasion fleets, of which there are extremely many, and they very often succeed.
i've played just past one ingame cycle, and have reached the grand level of 5 - and so far there's been 2 successful invasions(cibola and Salamanca), one failed(sindria), there's 2 more on the way (gilead and ancyra) along with a saturation bombardment headed for Madeira, alongside numerous raids.
out of all of these, there was not a single one ranked below 'superior' in terms of swarm vs defender strength, and sindria only won on the ground.
this intense aggression leads to the player encountering the swarm very often - and unless the player gets both very lucky and plays incredibly well, they will not be able to stop them before they make massive inroads into the core sector systems.
while i do absolutely love the concept of this mod, it feels a bit too imbalanced - and if one wants to keep the power imbalance, maybe instead of superior ships and firepower, they'd simply have much more ships than the opposing force? a change such as that would both make sense given the swarm moniker and style, as well - to draw from history, making them the shermans to the player's tiger tanks would feel very fitting ("a German Tiger is easily worth 10 shermans, but they always had 11!").
Well that does seem to be a bit too strong, may I ask how many other factions mods do you use in your game? Personally I play with pretty much every faction mod for compatibility testing and it takes them some time to become a threat. I haven't tried a game with no faction mods so maybe there is an issue with them being too op for a vanilla faction run.

In past patches I added a third system across the map to sort of force them to travel the sector. And in the last patch I was able to turn their aggression up via fixes in their Nex files. Perhaps having both fixes tunes them a bit too much. I'll play around with a game where they only have the top left systems and see how it goes.
the sprites also look a bit... fuzzy, compared to other ships and equipment in the game - but only some of them. iunno if that's just my install.

in short:
really cool idea, but the bugs are pretty overpowered and would probably need some work on that. sick mod though, definitively one to keep an eye on.
Have you looked at the alternate ship pack I have imbedded in the RAR? It contains non-bug designs that are cleaner but still have an alien feel to them. I am no artist and have done a couple passes at cleaning them up, if you could list the ones you feel need some work I would appreciate it so I can see what I can do.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.96 - 06/19/22 - Aggression increase, beware the swarm
Post by: Harmful Mechanic on July 03, 2022, 01:57:40 PM
I think a major part of the problem is how many ships you have to balance. Vanilla Remnants are remarkably compelling for how few hulls they have. More isn't always better.

You may want to try reducing things down to a total of ten entries in ship_data.csv, including fighter hulls, and see if that makes it easier - just balance those ten things, and then you can start thinking about adding back some of the other stuff.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.96 - 06/19/22 - Aggression increase, beware the swarm
Post by: Dazs on July 03, 2022, 04:16:32 PM
Hello there Harmful Mechanic, big fan of your work and I appreciate your taking the time to comment. Well I am self admittedly guilty of ship bloat on all my mods, idk I really enjoy designing them and I want the factions I create to stand on their own. However, I am unsure which ones I would remove in Hiver Swarm and still maintain a complete setup since they are a unique mod in that they do not trade with other factions or use their ships. I added each type and size of ship I thought they would need in order to colonize, trade, invade, fight and to be able to defend against multiple factions invading them.

I had some plans to work on CFT after the holiday but I'll give all the ships in Hiver Swarm a once over after, hopefully, I receive some clarity from derrzzedd or anyone else that would like to give some advice for that matter. Either way, it made it to the top of my to-do list for mod work.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.96 - 06/19/22 - Aggression increase, beware the swarm
Post by: derrzzedd on July 03, 2022, 07:09:20 PM
Well that does seem to be a bit too strong, may I ask how many other factions mods do you use in your game? Personally I play with pretty much every faction mod for compatibility testing and it takes them some time to become a threat. I haven't tried a game with no faction mods so maybe there is an issue with them being too op for a vanilla faction run.

In past patches I added a third system across the map to sort of force them to travel the sector. And in the last patch I was able to turn their aggression up via fixes in their Nex files. Perhaps having both fixes tunes them a bit too much. I'll play around with a game where they only have the top left systems and see how it goes.
so far i've been running the mod alongside dassault-mikoyan, Diable avionics, Interstellar imperium, and Kadur Remnant.
i'm of course rather unfamiliar with creating a mod for starsector, so i'm not entirely sure how causing hostility and how the 'behind the scenes' portion of invasion logic works, but would it perhaps be an idea to start their worlds off as small in terms of population and logistical capabilities but well defended (to prevent other hostile AIs or the player themselves from just wiping them out) and have a rapid growth modifier of some sort on them, to make their capacity for launching invasion fleets scale up over time?

Have you looked at the alternate ship pack I have imbedded in the RAR? It contains non-bug designs that are cleaner but still have an alien feel to them. I am no artist and have done a couple passes at cleaning them up, if you could list the ones you feel need some work I would appreciate it so I can see what I can do.
i have not, but i'll be sure to. it's not like it's a big issue or anything - they're already sufficiently horrifying to think about :).

as for the balancing aspect on a ship scale - less ships would certainly make it easier on you as a modmaker to get a comprehensive balancing done with less work, but i do not think that the variety of ships is an inherently bad thing, since they do make for more interesting fights. what i'd focus on during a balancing run are:
Flux/damage ratios of weapons systems
damage output capacity of missile systems with infinite/replenishing ammunition
speed vs tankyness vs equipment capacity of the ships themselves

since these areas are, at least to me, the biggest factors in the balance of a combatant.
again, i'm not a modmaker so i've little idea how hard or easy it would be, but the option to make each ship and piece of gear weaker but have a lot more of them in each fleet would also be an idea. they are a swarm, after all.

still, it's a very fun mod to play, and the concept is fantastic and horrifying in equal measure.

Edit: to clarify a bit what i meant with the "speed vs tank vs equipment capacity" point, i figured i'd slap some of the vanilla cruisers into a diagram to show a bit how i'm thinking - picture related. (bear with me, i'ven ot used a standard forum board structure in a while.)

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.96 - 06/19/22 - Aggression increase, beware the swarm
Post by: Dazs on July 05, 2022, 08:50:07 AM
Thank you for the clarification, I was away for the holiday so sorry for the delay in replying.
so far i've been running the mod alongside dassault-mikoyan, Diable avionics, Interstellar imperium, and Kadur Remnant.
i'm of course rather unfamiliar with creating a mod for starsector, so i'm not entirely sure how causing hostility and how the 'behind the scenes' portion of invasion logic works,
All great faction mods, I use them myself. Well NEX does use some logic when deciding invasions, generally the more hated then the more likely it will be invaded. Based on the faction mods you have listed it does not look like you have one that is on the left side of the map like Xhan Empire. The Hivers tend to go after systems closer to their section of the map first. For example, Luddic Church is one of the first targets since the Luds HATE tech and Hivers are high tech and they are one of the closer factions.
but would it perhaps be an idea to start their worlds off as small in terms of population and logistical capabilities but well defended (to prevent other hostile AIs or the player themselves from just wiping them out) and have a rapid growth modifier of some sort on them, to make their capacity for launching invasion fleets scale up over time?
That is probably one the the things I have struggled with the most in the patching since release. If I make them too weak in terms of numerical advantage, then they are wiped out by AI factions. If I make them too weak in terms of ship superiority then their fleets are usually intercepted by AI remnant fleets and destroyed before they can reach the core sectors.
i have not, but i'll be sure to. it's not like it's a big issue or anything - they're already sufficiently horrifying to think about :).
Lol nice that is the intention. :)  If you can stomach it, take a peek under the spoiler image on the first page that shows the changed ships vs their base ships and maybe the replacements are more to your liking. If you navigate to the Hiver Swarm mod folder under graphics\ships you can see all the base ships and the file name is their ship name. If you could give me an idea which specific ships you find blurry I would truly appreciate it, be brave little piglet!
as for the balancing aspect on a ship scale - less ships would certainly make it easier on you as a modmaker to get a comprehensive balancing done with less work, but i do not think that the variety of ships is an inherently bad thing, since they do make for more interesting fights. what i'd focus on during a balancing run are:
Flux/damage ratios of weapons systems
I have received some comments in the part regarding their flux efficiency so that was already on the to-do list but thank you just the same.
damage output capacity of missile systems with infinite/replenishing ammunition
Full disclosure, that was a mistake on my part when I initially set up their weapons that I never addressed. No specific reason for it, idk that was months ago :) I'll have it fixed/changed next patch.
speed vs tankyness vs equipment capacity of the ships themselves
since these areas are, at least to me, the biggest factors in the balance of a combatant.
again, i'm not a modmaker so i've little idea how hard or easy it would be, but the option to make each ship and piece of gear weaker but have a lot more of them in each fleet would also be an idea. they are a swarm, after all.
Well I do have them tanky and high speed in order to take advantage of their hull repairing ability to pair with their hit and run tactics. So they can move in, take a hit and weave out to repair. However I do see a case to make their larger ships slower and their smaller ones less tanky as a balance tweak.
still, it's a very fun mod to play, and the concept is fantastic and horrifying in equal measure.
Thank you so much! I am glad you think so, my goal was to provide the player base an organized faction to go up against versus random bounties and remnant fleets. I generally play as a neutralist and I wanted a no questions asked big bad and it doesn't get more than that with the Hivers.
Edit: to clarify a bit what i meant with the "speed vs tank vs equipment capacity" point, i figured i'd slap some of the vanilla cruisers into a diagram to show a bit how i'm thinking - picture related. (bear with me, i'ven ot used a standard forum board structure in a while.)
I get it now, thank you for taking the time to make and embed a graphic. The level of effort players such as yourself put into assisting me make my mods more enjoyable just floors me. I am so appreciative thank you.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: Dazs on July 13, 2022, 01:32:16 PM
v0.97 released today - Save game compatible. Couple fixes, couple nerfs, changelog on the forum OP and in the RAR has the details.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: Dafrandle on July 13, 2022, 07:23:19 PM
out of curiosity - how much flexibility does the game allow in the way a faction function?

If you could hide the faction from the player and the rest of the factions and force them to search for them - or better yet - have the player accidently stumble on their core worlds as they are out exploring, it would make them scarier.

I'd guess that Nexerelin probably doesn't allow for something like that though
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: 5ColouredWalker on July 13, 2022, 10:05:10 PM
out of curiosity - how much flexibility does the game allow in the way a faction function?

If you could hide the faction from the player and the rest of the factions and force them to search for them - or better yet - have the player accidently stumble on their core worlds as they are out exploring, it would make them scarier.

I'd guess that Nexerelin probably doesn't allow for something like that though

There is a mod that hides non-core worlds (except Nebula, where it doesn't work.), so this might be doable. However I'm not sure how this could be done for factions.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: Dazs on July 14, 2022, 02:32:04 AM
out of curiosity - how much flexibility does the game allow in the way a faction function?

If you could hide the faction from the player and the rest of the factions and force them to search for them - or better yet - have the player accidently stumble on their core worlds as they are out exploring, it would make them scarier.

I'd guess that Nexerelin probably doesn't allow for something like that though

I tinkered with the idea of having them hidden like Blade Breakers or the Agni but I wanted them to be a threat to all the factions in the sector. By having their systems visible on the map it gives them a fully functional economy and the AI is more likely to go after them. They are essentially set up as a newly discovered, little known faction that hates everyone, it is why I have their info turned off on the intel tab.

If you do not already have Prav's Agni (prv Starwork) and/or Harmful Mechanic's Blade Breakers (Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering) I would highly recommend them to fill in that "what the heck did I walk into, oh crap RUN!" feeling.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: 5ColouredWalker on July 15, 2022, 02:32:40 AM
*Kills Legio Fleet*
Hiver's who hate everyone: Here's 1.5K in bounty payment.
Me: Uh... Thanks.

Edit: Are hiver ship blue prints supposed to be discoverable?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: Dazs on July 15, 2022, 08:33:06 AM
*Kills Legio Fleet*
Hiver's who hate everyone: Here's 1.5K in bounty payment.
Me: Uh... Thanks.
As far as the bounty payments, I have them flagged to not offer them and to hate everyone including the player so In theory it should not happen. However, it does occur occasionally and I have yet to figure out how to disable it fully. Sort of a lingering issue that is still a work in progress. I left it on the bottom of the list since it does not raise your reputation with them, that is hard capped. I'll reach out to Histidine, who was kind enough to help me with other NEX interactions and see if they can give me some insight.
Edit: Are hiver ship blue prints supposed to be discoverable?
The blue prints have been an ongoing tweak over the course of the mod. Originally I had them discoverable as any other, then I turned them off, then made them re-discoverable but broke them up into several blueprint packages and finally I blacklisted them from the prism freeport. All changes based on player feedback. Some players want them, others do not so this was the best compromise I could think of. I made them harder to get for those that want to discover them and I figured for the players that got them but did not want them, well they could just not use them.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: 5ColouredWalker on July 15, 2022, 03:38:05 PM
Bounties do raise reputation, but given it shoots back down on sight that's not relevant. The managed to post a global bounty and then shortly after that a regular one, but if it's being worked on it's being worked on.

As for the blueprints, while it's hilarious I found them on the opposite side of the sector, I've changed them to the optional ship set which fortunately works mid game and I might try them later.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: Sicariau on July 23, 2022, 05:35:52 PM
any idea what could cause them to spawn in the core worlds?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: Dazs on July 23, 2022, 07:06:29 PM
I am unsure what you are referring to. In the last patch I moved their third system to the side of the map the first two are so there should be no trade travel across the core. They do conquer core worlds so perhaps you are seeing fleets spawn from a system that has has changed to Hiver. Some clarification would be appreciated so I can answer in better detail.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: Sicariau on July 23, 2022, 08:39:56 PM
I am unsure what you are referring to. In the last patch I moved their third system to the side of the map the first two are so there should be no trade travel across the core. They do conquer core worlds so perhaps you are seeing fleets spawn from a system that has has changed to Hiver. Some clarification would be appreciated so I can answer in better detail.

sorry i should have been more clear.

ive played the mod before. it worked fine. i uninstalled for a few months before recently pulling it up again.  this time, when i loaded in a new game the hive home world spawned in the core systems from the beginning of the game. i tried to start a new game to test it again and same result. a little  more info: it was the derelict custom scenario included in nex and i have several other faction and QoL mods installed.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: Dazs on July 24, 2022, 04:07:16 AM
Ah ok thank you for the details, that clears things up. A mod maker can only stipulate the position of their faction in a standard game. If you are playing with random core worlds, a must to play the derelict scenario, then yes they can appear anywhere like any other faction. Random is Random.

Personally I enjoy when I play that scenario and they spawn in the same system as Hegemony. Constant battling and if you are sneaky sneak enough, there is treasure galore to scavenge. :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: Sicariau on July 24, 2022, 02:05:38 PM
Ah ok thank you for the details, that clears things up. A mod maker can only stipulate the position of their faction in a standard game. If you are playing with random core worlds, a must to play the derelict scenario, then yes they can appear anywhere like any other faction. Random is Random.

Personally I enjoy when I play that scenario and they spawn in the same system as Hegemony. Constant battling and if you are sneaky sneak enough, there is treasure galore to scavenge. :)
cheers. great mod by the way
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: Sicariau on July 24, 2022, 02:08:08 PM
i wish there was a way to have them spawn after like 50 years or something, like a stellaris mid game crisis
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: Dazs on July 24, 2022, 02:49:31 PM
Would be a nice feature but not possible to me knowledge. I did put them so far from the core so you can pretty much ignore them until you are ready, say midgame, as a compromise. Enjoy!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: 5ColouredWalker on July 24, 2022, 07:48:24 PM
Arriving as a small faction should be possible, there's a mod that adds a Sci based faction that arives to the rin then swaps them with a AI faction latter from memory. But maybe the Sci ones there from the start and they swap, which means having a place holder faction. Perhaps peaceful bugs until poked?
I'll try to find that mod after work.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: Sicariau on July 25, 2022, 04:41:12 PM
Arriving as a small faction should be possible, there's a mod that adds a Sci based faction that arives to the rin then swaps them with a AI faction latter from memory. But maybe the Sci ones there from the start and they swap, which means having a place holder faction. Perhaps peaceful bugs until poked?
I'll try to find that mod after work.
thats a cool idea. have some flavor text if you find them early, "these bugs appear to me newly arrived to the sector, busy working on... something" then make them really aggressive expansionists
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: 5ColouredWalker on July 25, 2022, 09:54:17 PM
The mod is Vayra's sector (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=16058.0).
While the modes defunct Vayra may be contactable.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: 5ColouredWalker on August 02, 2022, 02:10:12 PM
Just noticed a couple of the Hiver Swarm ships are ludicrously cheap, particularly the Swallowtail and Princess Heavy Cruisers which both run in the 20K range , being cheaper than destroyer level freighters. Just something I noticed during a build slot event. It also might be worth changing their Tag from High Tech to Hiver Swarm.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: strinn on August 08, 2022, 01:55:27 PM
So I've done close to a full playthrough with this mod, and I have to say that it's still not very balanced after the last patch.

My biggest problem with the mod is that the added ships feel like they have no weaknesses. Many ships have strong shields, absurd levels of armor, strong hulls, damage boosting systems, lots of weapon slots, maneuverability, and speed. Missiles track targets indefinitely while dealing large amounts of damage and being shot in large numbers and being fast enough to track a Scarab, which makes them more threatening than Reapers even at their optimal distance. Fighters are too tough due to having both shields a lot of armor/hull while being able to deal absurd amounts of damage, especially through missile barrages, which some of them have multiple of by the way, unlike vanilla fighters and bombers that have to come back to the carrier to replenish theirs. Many of the carriers also have strong frontal weapons and good maneuverability which are things that carriers are meant to lack. Phase ships either have too much flux capacity, due to which they can stay phased much longer than they should reasonably be allowed to.

Comparing them to the [REDACTED], the [REDACTED] don't have strong fighters/interceptors or bombers since they die quite fast, many of their ships don't have good burst damage, many of them don't have good enough maneuverability, mobility, and tankiness to get out of dangerous situations, most of their systems only improve survivability and mobility slightly (like the flare launcher on the brilliant). Hiver ships have very few, if any, of those weaknesses.

In my current game, I'm playing with ScalarTech ships which are able to reliably enough destroy Hiver fleets since the ships are balanced well enough around the stronger vanilla ships, but I don't even know if killing Hive fleets would be possible while playing as a weaker faction like Diable Avionics where ships rely on grinding out the enemy, fragile strike craft, and burst damage high-cost weapons because of the high shield and armor/hull values, hull regeneration, and high density of fire + strong point defense weapons.

The idea of the mod is cool and I have definitely enjoyed trying to come up with strategies against them, but I don't think I'll be using this mod in my next playthroughs because the Hivers' fleets ultimately just aren't fun to play against
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: eidolad on August 23, 2022, 11:01:46 AM
hi some comments from first playthrough:

1. Yeesh my starting system had a Hiver planet, and two faction planets.  It was very entertaining to watch the local patrols engage and then jump in on the battles...and view just how nasty the Hiver ships are.  I stayed and helped/fought long enough to get a story point and capture a Hiver destroyer.  Boy was that a power up.  By that time, the patrols were mostly gone and I had to leave the system. 

Before I could return and do some more coop farming...the factions had reinforced much quicker and took that colony. 

2.  Yes, Hivers are designed to be an Almost-Grand Menace and are balanced as such.  Like, as in Hivers can out duel two or three similar ships.  And, they all regenerate (even the fighters IIRC?).  As prizes, it's a tossup on what I find more valuable:  their repairing hulls, or the super efficient weapons.  I guess the nod goes to the weapons.

Hivers are well worth hunting...but I almost never engaged them alone.  I would go in as support for another faction.

3.  In terms of Nexerelin 4x:  just about every other faction jumped on the Hivers and took most of their worlds early.  I never heard much from them after the mid-game.  I will even have to check to see if they are still around.  I haven't seen a "news event" concerning the Hivers in many many months.

4.  If it is possible:  I would prevent Hiver weapons from ever showing up in store inventories.  Their weapons should only be obtainable via salvage from a derelict or post-battle salvage.  However I should note that I've only see very, very rare instances of Hiver weapons in stores.  But boy do I stop what I'm doing and consider the purchase.  The few I've seen, especially the large weapons, are worth twice anything else.

5.  To help the Hivers against the "Nexerelin dog pile", in random game creation:  do the Hiver have now, or could have later:  a secondary capital that is NOT in the core world radius?  I suppose the balancing act is "if we make Hivers too powerful then every time we include them in a random game...they just take over" sort of thing?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: gentulf on August 23, 2022, 02:15:06 PM
As to ship’s apparent lack of weaknesses, maybe lowering their armor values below average would make sense? Lore-wise it would make sense that their biological hulls can’t be too tough as it’s a living thing and being able to regenerate it on the fly could be the tradeoff for low armor values.

Also their weapons, if one gains their blueprints, should probably be way more expensive, an order of magnitude so because some of them are basically the best weapons in the game overall exceeding even [REDACTED] weapons in quality, while the latter can cost 500 000 when bought from the [REDACTED] NPC.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: nooder on September 03, 2022, 09:56:29 AM
i did the edits to play as them and i think they are balanced in player's hads coz even the smallest ship if u put hive weapons on it costs around 300-500k yea they are strong but im struggling to buy more that causes me to get my ass kicked by other modded factions or vanila factions with much more ships lol  :D
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: trstrs on September 05, 2022, 09:00:53 AM
Great mod. Had a lot fun repelling or beenig caught by few Hiver fleet. Few thoughts about making mod more balanced. Hiver's ships have biolagical hull perk, but weapon counts as high tech, so it can be used by anyone without penalty. It will make sense to give non-hiver ships penalty for bioweapon use(maybe to build into the ship modification, like nutrition tank, which allows to use it, or give it weight and flux penalty, dunno). Late game i am just ignore 1000 range 800 dps fluxchip cannons, otherwise it will ruin game. We need more missiles, guided, acid based, pd distracting.   
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: LordKhorne on September 06, 2022, 11:10:47 AM
for some reason your mod causes to game to lag extremely in combat. I don't know why but it does this but it does.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: arima1234 on September 06, 2022, 09:12:34 PM
Lol just fought againt 2 fleet with nexelim mod. tbh it made me feel how desperated when IoM fought againt tyrannid in 40k (i barely won with the sacrified of my fleet, alies and battle station). But i think it need a slightly adjustment because like ppl stated above hivers don't really have weakness so its is fun when you fight first few times but very annoying when you fight constantly.
- There are too fast and too tough. It's ok when they are strong shield, armor and they can regen but atleast they should have a weakness like slow (their cruiser like prince can tank a whole gang of ships) ? and it work really well to their doctrine (strong, tanky, can regen but slow)
- The fighter are too op especially the one from mother carrier. it really can kill all the ship if not get a focus fire and spawn too fast, like i state above tough is ok but can you change the respawn time ? or atleast made it glass canon dmg dealer or super tank but low dmg.
- About flux, ships like SIM seems never get overheated, the heat recover is too fast
Sorry for my bad english.

Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: Olfand on September 07, 2022, 05:29:22 AM
The idea for this mod is really good, an insectoid alien threat to the sector while the superpowers can't help but fight each other for pride, glory and conquest make the moded starsector really fun.

However this mod COULD be fun if not that unfair and unbalanced. There's much to say to make it a serious dangerous threat as the remnant and the regen hullmod for organic ships is a logic and nice mechanic, however ...

The 2 only thing that might give a chance to defeat a regular hiver fleet is hiding behind a station when they invade, or using a zerg rush tactic and launch every ship you have to one target at a time to try and destroy it. And even those methods have a near 0 chance to succeed.

One exemple that make me rage like hell are the fighters. For exemple my parangon with its full escort got wrecked by a part of the hivers fighters without having even a chance to see any enemy ship. And i try some tactics with different ships even a fleet full anti fighters and even that isn't even efficiency.

If by miracle i can pass the fighters waves, the carriers are too well equiped to fight on their own ! Everything's maxed with the hivers : armor, hullpoint, flux cap and vent, nav speed, ect ... and i'm not talking about the numerous ships with phase or damper field like effect. Saying this sounds like i'm talking about one of the OP sonic OC from the fan base.

If in early i was enthousiastic about finding a strat to defeat those mighty foes, after getting steamrolled in every way by this mod it just frustrate me everytime they decide to pick up a fight with me. I'll have to redo a campaign again without this mod, because in his current state that's a big no no for me.

Now that i've vented my frustration i think some things can be easily done to balance the hiver without making them as lame as the Pirates and luddics. Some ideas that i've come with are the armor rating. Those ship are living organisms right ? So it woudn't be illogical to assume that even if they are high tech who can absorb massive amouts of damage with shields and vent easily their armor might be lowered. And that applies for the speed too, the majority of the big hiver boys are carriers so their massiveness shouldn't allow the to go full speed boy at the slightest inconvenience. Same for the weapons mounts the carriers shouldn't be able to erase any foe that comes for is chitinian a**.

The fighters well ... they're absolutely awfull to deal with. Maybe making them less tanky, or else deadly ? reducing a stat or another or even making them the disposable thing like insectoids drones : they coul have a limited time since launch and die passed some time. And the replacement rate not being this insane but like launching waves of numerous fighters who are fragile but really look like a swarm of disposable drones for the glory of the hivemind and the queens themselves !

Well those are juste some ideas and my ranting about this mod that could be one of the funniest to play in the mod community.

Have a nice day and bun bright fellow commander !

Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: Dazs on September 07, 2022, 07:55:16 AM
Hello one and all. I apologize for being MIA for the last couple weeks. I was on a two week vacation (which I believed I mentioned in the CFT thread) and when I got back I was so overloaded with work that I had no time for play. I truly appreciate all the thoughts and ideas given to all my mods in my absence and I *should* be able to start working on updates by the weekend. I will be starting with changes to Hiver Swarm and working my way to the other two faction mods as well as some ideas for Ore Refinery (no ETA on those just know they are on my to-do list)

I will give more detailed feedback once I have time to go through all the replies on all my mods and get back to you all.

Thank you,
Dazs
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: trstrs on September 07, 2022, 10:39:53 AM
One thing, please do not nerf Hivers. It is interesting as tough faction. Some things as locations, specialized industrisies, star bases, maybe, but overall, you can beat them. Speed, distance, firepower, they gone. I personally will be hapy to see super Hiver (to confront Gown from scalartech solutions, or sajuuk-khar), but other, those who got their immertion broken. Maybe give them weaken version of mod? PS they are not superpower or something, big ships do not have speed boost or kind of flicker, missiles not swarmers and can be intercepted.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: grinningsphinx on September 07, 2022, 11:20:44 PM
Hiya!!!

Stopped in just to check how this mod was coming along!

Wow...so what im reading is a lot of posts from players that probably struggle against any number of factions.

Guys, ive run Hiver ships..ive run against Hiver ships. Early or mid game, you may struggle. Once you get over the mid game hump and have some stuff of your own you can spank Hiver fleets. You know where the systems are, you know that they have to cross space to get to your colonies. If you set up in a spot that allows them to easily reach your colony without interdiction well...yall kinda asked for it. Its like...thinking you can just go out with a vanilla fleet set with cruisers and up and right away go after the Templar systems back in the day lol. No..just not gonna happen. Running Hivers as your only mod next to Nexelerin and everything else vanilla is a mistake if thats what people are doing. You need the tools: ships, weapons, ship mods, leveled captains and a decently filled out main character to fight on par. Last stage defense stations, money to buy some support fleets, a couple of high commands etc.

Anyway, thumbs up Dazs! Glad to see its still around. Too many factions just really dont provide much of a late game challenge.

Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: gentulf on September 08, 2022, 12:53:11 PM
While I see people supporting Hivers as being very strong and in principle I am not against it, they have some weapons that are pretty much perfect and having access to them is very upsetting to the general feel of all the other weapons you can find (basically everything feels pointless if you can just use hiver weapons).

I am not sure if I like them being more threatening than Remnant fleets.

Also their presence in the sector still makes some quests target their systems which is very annoying, although not game breaking.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: gentulf on September 08, 2022, 01:32:36 PM
Thinking more about weapons - it's most frustrating that I have to pay up to 500 000 credits to Midnight Dissonant to buy certain [REDACTED] weapons that you can't really get otherwise but can just stumble upon a Hiver blueprint and just produce them with low cost (relative to huge utility).

Maybe some weapons should be re-categorized as "super weapons" and made unavailable as blueprint and rare in usage (perhaps even very rarely available to buy at Midnight Dissonant)?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: grinningsphinx on September 09, 2022, 10:12:19 AM
Thinking more about weapons - it's most frustrating that I have to pay up to 500 000 credits to Midnight Dissonant to buy certain [REDACTED] weapons that you can't really get otherwise but can just stumble upon a Hiver blueprint and just produce them with low cost (relative to huge utility).

Maybe some weapons should be re-categorized as "super weapons" and made unavailable as blueprint and rare in usage (perhaps even very rarely available to buy at Midnight Dissonant)?

Overall, in my games at least, hivers have some good non beam energy weapons.  They dont have any ballistics to speak of and the missiles are okay-ish compared to other factions that i run. I mean, unless something new has been added since the last time i played. Other factions missiles  have better use case scenario and as far as i know dont have any beams worth mounting. Same with mediocre point defense.

The counter to the fighter spam is the same as all factions with fighter spam; you either have the stuff to counter it or you dont...fighter/missile swarm stuff has always been very either or in star sector. I can either counter with my own  spam or i can take ships that very much out range them while still providing a small/medium threat screen of drones and throwaway regenerating missiles. Fighting a huge block of remnants actually gives me more Angst then Hivers, simply because of the AI pilots and the massive super agro charges that tend to break your lines and annihilate focused targets. Two systems off the tops of my head that are especially effective against hivers are the large energy artillery that throws out waves of slower moving energy balls, and the large ballistic weapons that put out clouds of fragmentation damage. Anything that saturates and area with good reload speed works though.

Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: trstrs on September 09, 2022, 10:46:27 AM
Thinking more about weapons - it's most frustrating that I have to pay up to 500 000 credits to Midnight Dissonant to buy certain [REDACTED] weapons that you can't really get otherwise but can just stumble upon a Hiver blueprint and just produce them with low cost (relative to huge utility).

Maybe some weapons should be re-categorized as "super weapons" and made unavailable as blueprint and rare in usage (perhaps even very rarely available to buy at Midnight Dissonant)?
there is nothing to do with it, at last for now, just ignore bluprints and illegal weapon traders.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: gentulf on September 09, 2022, 11:30:29 AM
Come to think of it more, maybe one solution is to make it more difficult to use Hiver weapons on non-hiver ships. A check can be run to see if a ship has Biological Hull mod, and if not make it more expensive (higher OP cost or lower efficiency) or outright impossible to mount those (or make some special hull mod that is required on non-Hiver ships). This way the following is achieved:

It is also very lore-friendly because as Hiver weapons are such alien technology it would make sense that it's not really feasible to just slap them onto conventional ships.

Tangentially, Hiver ships are kind of like automated ships — they are not standard machines that your crews have experience with. It could be even argued that they should work like those, with a skill required to even use them (neural link)? That is just food for thought though.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: trstrs on September 09, 2022, 12:16:49 PM
 I just have to repeat to myself: do not demand nearly impossible from mod maker, special industries for Hivers (hard to handle to nonHivers), special healer ships, rammers/jumpers, enormous/acid torpedoes, coordinator ships (like capital size giving boost to frigates around him). Exteme rich lore have a lot of earlier sci fi implementations (R.A. Heinlein for example) or some GW creature, but only one mod touching the idea. Kinda sad.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: Dazs on September 10, 2022, 11:23:21 AM
Here is my mega reply now that I am caught up:
Just noticed a couple of the Hiver Swarm ships are ludicrously cheap, particularly the Swallowtail and Princess Heavy Cruisers which both run in the 20K range , being cheaper than destroyer level freighters. Just something I noticed during a build slot event. It also might be worth changing their Tag from High Tech to Hiver Swarm.
Good catch, I'll be adding a 2 in front of the current price in the upcoming update. Typo on my part TY for noticing it.
hi some comments from first playthrough:

1. Yeesh my starting system had a Hiver planet, and two faction planets.  It was very entertaining to watch the local patrols engage and then jump in on the battles...and view just how nasty the Hiver ships are.  I stayed and helped/fought long enough to get a story point and capture a Hiver destroyer.  Boy was that a power up.  By that time, the patrols were mostly gone and I had to leave the system. 

Before I could return and do some more coop farming...the factions had reinforced much quicker and took that colony. 

2.  Yes, Hivers are designed to be an Almost-Grand Menace and are balanced as such.  Like, as in Hivers can out duel two or three similar ships.  And, they all regenerate (even the fighters IIRC?).  As prizes, it's a tossup on what I find more valuable:  their repairing hulls, or the super efficient weapons.  I guess the nod goes to the weapons.

Hivers are well worth hunting...but I almost never engaged them alone.  I would go in as support for another faction.
I agree, if you are not well established with the ability to recover from losing an entire fleet, then that is the recommended strategy and one I employ myself.
3.  In terms of Nexerelin 4x:  just about every other faction jumped on the Hivers and took most of their worlds early.  I never heard much from them after the mid-game.  I will even have to check to see if they are still around.  I haven't seen a "news event" concerning the Hivers in many many months.

4.  If it is possible:  I would prevent Hiver weapons from ever showing up in store inventories.  Their weapons should only be obtainable via salvage from a derelict or post-battle salvage.  However I should note that I've only see very, very rare instances of Hiver weapons in stores.  But boy do I stop what I'm doing and consider the purchase.  The few I've seen, especially the large weapons, are worth twice anything else.
I would curious to know which stores toy find them in. I have several blacklists and preventions from them spawning in any other factions inventory.
5.  To help the Hivers against the "Nexerelin dog pile", in random game creation:  do the Hiver have now, or could have later:  a secondary capital that is NOT in the core world radius?  I suppose the balancing act is "if we make Hivers too powerful then every time we include them in a random game...they just take over" sort of thing?
You comments in points 1, 3 and 5 are from playing with random core worlds. It is hard coded in NEX that when that option is selected then any mod's map coordinates or added systems are ignored. The game takes each mod faction you have enabled as well as the vanilla factions and just randomly puts them in the core sector. Hivers are a full faction unlike [redacted] or other mod baddies like Blade Breakers or Agni and as such they are included in the random pick and it becomes, as you state, a dog pile since they are set to hate and to be hated by everyone and are forced to spawn in the core.
Also their weapons, if one gains their blueprints, should probably be way more expensive, an order of magnitude so because some of them are basically the best weapons in the game overall exceeding even [REDACTED] weapons in quality, while the latter can cost 500 000 when bought from the [REDACTED] NPC.
I am at a loss as to why their BP are still obtainable. I have put several blocks in to prevent it, I'll look into it further. As to the price, I looked into it and you are correct. I will raise the prices in the next patch.
Great mod. Had a lot fun repelling or beenig caught by few Hiver fleet. Few thoughts about making mod more balanced. Hiver's ships have biolagical hull perk, but weapon counts as high tech, so it can be used by anyone without penalty. It will make sense to give non-hiver ships penalty for bioweapon use(maybe to build into the ship modification, like nutrition tank, which allows to use it, or give it weight and flux penalty, dunno). Late game i am just ignore 1000 range 800 dps fluxchip cannons, otherwise it will ruin game. We need more missiles, guided, acid based, pd distracting.
I am glad to hear you are having fun fighting them. I like the idea of making them Hiver ship only but I am unaware or a way to do that. I'll put that on the research to-do list. I set a limit to their missiles and focused on their drones as their long range fighting capability. I believe that if I were to add more missiles and/or missile centric designed ships it would be overboard.
for some reason your mod causes to game to lag extremely in combat. I don't know why but it does this but it does.
Have you increased your vmparams? Dark Revenant wrote a good example and explanation https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=8726.0 I recommend at least 6GB if you play with multiple mods enabled.
- The fighter are too op especially the one from mother carrier. it really can kill all the ship if not get a focus fire and spawn too fast, like i state above tough is ok but can you change the respawn time ? or atleast made it glass canon dmg dealer or super tank but low dmg.
One exemple that make me rage like hell are the fighters. For exemple my parangon with its full escort got wrecked by a part of the hivers fighters without having even a chance to see any enemy ship. And i try some tactics with different ships even a fleet full anti fighters and even that isn't even efficiency.
I've seen this comment numerous times on the forum and in discord. I will be addressing this in the upcoming patch, ty both for bringing it top of mind.
One thing, please do not nerf Hivers. It is interesting as tough faction. Some things as locations, specialized industrisies, star bases, maybe, but overall, you can beat them. Speed, distance, firepower, they gone. I personally will be hapy to see super Hiver (to confront Gown from scalartech solutions, or sajuuk-khar), but other, those who got their immertion broken. Maybe give them weaken version of mod? PS they are not superpower or something, big ships do not have speed boost or kind of flicker, missiles not swarmers and can be intercepted.
I have dome my best to make them a challenge at mid game and a threat as the game progresses. As I stated earlier, I do believe their drones are a little too good and I have an idea to address it while keeping that in mind. As to a weaker version of the mod, I do think it is a good idea and would give an option to the players that would like that. However, that would take a lot of work and effort that I do not believe I have the time for while working on my three other mods and living a balanced life :)
Guys, ive run Hiver ships..ive run against Hiver ships. Early or mid game, you may struggle. Once you get over the mid game hump and have some stuff of your own you can spank Hiver fleets. You know where the systems are, you know that they have to cross space to get to your colonies. If you set up in a spot that allows them to easily reach your colony without interdiction well...yall kinda asked for it. Its like...thinking you can just go out with a vanilla fleet set with cruisers and up and right away go after the Templar systems back in the day lol. No..just not gonna happen. Running Hivers as your only mod next to Nexelerin and everything else vanilla is a mistake if thats what people are doing. You need the tools: ships, weapons, ship mods, leveled captains and a decently filled out main character to fight on par. Last stage defense stations, money to buy some support fleets, a couple of high commands etc.

Anyway, thumbs up Dazs! Glad to see its still around. Too many factions just really dont provide much of a late game challenge.
You essentially have it correct, maybe I'll add some sort of disclaimer on the front page :) Thank you for the kind words.

I've made multiple notes and am working on an update. I should have it out by tomorrow. I'll keep an eye out for any more suggestions while I tinker so if you have them, keep them coming. I appreciate it!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.97 - 07/13/22
Post by: trstrs on September 10, 2022, 11:59:45 AM
Quote
    Great mod. Had a lot fun repelling or beenig caught by few Hiver fleet. Few thoughts about making mod more balanced. Hiver's ships have biolagical hull perk, but weapon counts as high tech, so it can be used by anyone without penalty. It will make sense to give non-hiver ships penalty for bioweapon use(maybe to build into the ship modification, like nutrition tank, which allows to use it, or give it weight and flux penalty, dunno). Late game i am just ignore 1000 range 800 dps fluxchip cannons, otherwise it will ruin game. We need more missiles, guided, acid based, pd distracting.

I am glad to hear you are having fun fighting them. I like the idea of making them Hiver ship only but I am unaware or a way to do that. I'll put that on the research to-do list. I set a limit to their missiles and focused on their drones as their long range fighting capability. I believe that if I were to add more missiles and/or missile centric designed ships it would be overboard.
The reason why I wrote about it, is because I saw it partially implemented. RED mod, where oculian ships have larger OP cost for non oculian weapon and wings. Mad mode on: rebellion or planet coquest creates new hiver faction free from tyranny and searching for alliance; hivers are other creatures and their ships will demand hivers crew; bio station; accelerated grow rate for hiver on habitable planet. Mad mode off. Thumbs up.   
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.98 - 09/11/22
Post by: Dazs on September 11, 2022, 10:12:28 AM
0.98 Released today *Should* be save game compatible - *I did not have an old save to test against

I took into consideration all the comments made on the forum and in discord and added some limitations, fixed some errors and added a new Hiver specific ship system. Changelog on the forum front page and in the RAR has the details.

@ trstrs -
The reason why I wrote about it, is because I saw it partially implemented. RED mod, where oculian ships have larger OP cost for non oculian weapon and wings. Mad mode on: rebellion or planet coquest creates new hiver faction free from tyranny and searching for alliance; hivers are other creatures and their ships will demand hivers crew; bio station; accelerated grow rate for hiver on habitable planet. Mad mode off. Thumbs up.   

I took your advice and looked over Protonus' code for RED. I did not include your suggested changes in this update because I am unsure if I want to include it. I made two ships unrecoverable and the others less recoverable this update so the reward of fighting them is lessened. If I put limitations on their weapons I believe it would be a bit overboard. I am going to tinker around with the idea more and let this patch breathe a bit before making a final determination.

As always, I am appreciative of everyone's ideas and suggestions so please keep them coming!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.98 - 09/11/22
Post by: trstrs on September 11, 2022, 11:20:08 AM
So you have stepped on a slippery way of balance:). Beware because we lost many that way mokarran, charybdis, amina and even Pandemonium The Great. Bit offtop, are you awere of kir'ko in Planetfall, they coud be interesting in terms of inspiration and, dunno, lore development? 
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.98 - 09/11/22
Post by: Dazs on September 11, 2022, 12:55:23 PM
So you have stepped on a slippery way of balance:). Beware because we lost many that way mokarran, charybdis, amina and even Pandemonium The Great. Bit offtop, are you awere of kir'ko in Planetfall, they coud be interesting in terms of inspiration and, dunno, lore development? 

All insect races (you missed Tyranid :) ) unite! I believe the slope won't be that slippery going forward. The limiting changes I added this patch make sense in lore perspective to SOTS where the Hivers originated. The Hivers in that game use unshielded, fast swarming drones. Making them take longer to recover works with their lore as well since, due to the Cyberorganic nature of their ships, they are not only recovering crew readiness but also the living material of the ships as well.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.98 - 09/11/22
Post by: trstrs on September 11, 2022, 04:58:54 PM
Another part of conciousness flow: join the Repel Green Menace movement and complete some mission like scan systems around their world, deliver weapon/wing/ship for good reward or betray pitiful humankind for great reward alpha core, best weapon and fortune. Join now and green leaders may spare you.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.98 - 09/11/22
Post by: Sgt.Schnitzel on September 13, 2022, 06:13:49 PM
Cool mod just one small problem.

More overpowered than UAF which i didnt even know was possible
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.98 - 09/11/22
Post by: Dazs on September 13, 2022, 08:24:52 PM
Cool mod just one small problem.

More overpowered than UAF which i didnt even know was possible

Thank you for the Cool points! As to them being OP, well that is intentional. They are meant to be a sector menace and without teeth they wouldn't survive. They are alone in the sector with every faction after them including the player. Their economy is very strong and can pump out invasion fleets but if it is disrupted then they are greatly weakened as they only have 3 system to build from. I hope you are enjoying the mod!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.98 - 09/11/22
Post by: Titann on September 14, 2022, 09:26:32 AM
only thing i really wanna see about this mod is, unique ship sprites... is it planned? especially the reaper from mass effect... just wondering
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.98 - 09/11/22
Post by: Dazs on September 14, 2022, 09:52:18 AM
only thing i really wanna see about this mod is, unique ship sprites... is it planned? especially the reaper from mass effect... just wondering

Thank you for taking the time and showing an interest but I think I need more clarity in order to answer your question correctly. What do you mean by unique? As far as I know, both the base as well as the optional ship sprites are not in use by the base game or any other mod pack.

The Lucanidae sprite is indeed based on the mass effect reaper with some adjustments to fit the Hiver color scheme. There is also an replacement sprite in the alternate pack included in the mod if you are unhappy with the original. Again, some clarity on that question would be appreciated.

Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.98 - 09/11/22
Post by: alaricdragon on September 19, 2022, 02:28:44 PM
i have an slight bug report.
first: i found an blueprint pack or 3 with a lot of the hivers blueprints (in the update before they changed there type to bio tech). no idea if im suppose to have them or not.
second: after updating, i cant help but notice that one ship, and only one ship is 'BioTech' instead of 'Bio Tech'. only noticed cause i have blueprints.
lastly: i started a game with Nexerelin's random sector turned on, and I cant help but feel like the hive dose not have its own faction. i still see there ships in some star systems, but only ones with warning beacons around the system, but it feels like the [REDACTED]. I don't see them do anything like having worlds or colonizing systems or attacking people or anything. is this what this faction dose, or is it suppose to do more normally?

really enjoying this mod, but thought i should report my findings to you, just in case any of this is not intentional.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.98 - 09/11/22
Post by: Dazs on September 19, 2022, 02:58:29 PM
i have an slight bug report.
first: i found an blueprint pack or 3 with a lot of the hivers blueprints (in the update before they changed there type to bio tech). no idea if im suppose to have them or not.
It is intentional but I've put in blacklists to try and keep them rare but yes they are available for loot. I broke up their fleet into several BP packs in order to make it rare for a player to have their entire lineup. I originally had them un-lootable but I got several requests to put them back in, so I figured if some players did not want them they could just trash them. Getting them all in one loot is pretty lucky, good on you! :)
second: after updating, i cant help but notice that one ship, and only one ship is 'BioTech' instead of 'Bio Tech'. only noticed cause i have blueprints.
I'll go through the ships and double check my grammar, thank you for the report.
lastly: i started a game with Nexerelin's random sector turned on, and I cant help but feel like the hive dose not have its own faction. i still see there ships in some star systems, but only ones with warning beacons around the system, but it feels like the [REDACTED]. I don't see them do anything like having worlds or colonizing systems or attacking people or anything. is this what this faction dose, or is it suppose to do more normally?
That is because they are greatly diminished when playing with random systems and cannot field scouting and invasion fleets like they do with a standard sector. All the industry buffs I gave them gets tossed aside and they are thrown into the general mix of faction lotto. The difference between them and [REDACTED] is that the Hivers are set up as a faction and the [REDACTED] are a core race and are not picked when the randomizer assigns planets to each active faction so they act like they do in a standard game. 
really enjoying this mod, but thought i should report my findings to you, just in case any of this is not intentional.
I am glad to hear it, always nice to hear a kind word. I appreciate the reply, I rely on players such as yourself willing to take the time and make a report. I am no professional coder and if you look at my changelogs you'll see that my mods are rife with oopsies :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.98 - 09/11/22
Post by: Auren on September 20, 2022, 12:29:27 PM
I ain't gonna lie, the bugs seem a tad way too overpowered, especially with Nexerelin. The bugs reproduce super quickly and are hyper aggressive. The thing is, I see other people complaining about how the bugs are non-issues but in every game I've started they always just overrun the core and cut the nuts off all factions super quick, and none of them ever manage to recover and band together. The worst part is all the core factions just keep fighting each other instead of the swarm menace. Why and how do they get so many fleets so quickly? It's impossible to beat them unless you're cheating or doing some remnant run. And you know what the worst part is? These bugtwats will saturate bombard the crap out of your planets and others' but no one bats an eye. But the MOMENT you do it back to them? Oh god the humanity. Or should I say, the bugmanity! It's a good mod in theory and I've had a TON of fun trying to hunt them down but honestly I think I can't play with it because it just ends up the same way every run: dead factions and alone against the swarm which ends up with me also dead soon enough.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Hiver Swarm - V0.98 - 09/11/22
Post by: Dazs on September 20, 2022, 01:24:29 PM
I ain't gonna lie, the bugs seem a tad way too overpowered, especially with Nexerelin. The bugs reproduce super quickly and are hyper aggressive. The thing is, I see other people complaining about how the bugs are non-issues but in every game I've started they always just overrun the core and cut the nuts off all factions super quick, and none of them ever manage to recover and band together. The worst part is all the core factions just keep fighting each other instead of the swarm menace. Why and how do they get so many fleets so quickly? It's impossible to beat them unless you're cheating or doing some remnant run. And you know what the worst part is? These bugtwats will saturate bombard the crap out of your planets and others' but no one bats an eye. But the MOMENT you do it back to them? Oh god the humanity. Or should I say, the bugmanity! It's a good mod in theory and I've had a TON of fun trying to hunt them down but honestly I think I can't play with it because it just ends up the same way every run: dead factions and alone against the swarm which ends up with me also dead soon enough.

Personally, I have played the game as different factions and have not had them invade the core in force until I was in my mid teens in level with a colonized system and a strong fleet. I know that experiences will vary and have read other accounts that are similar to yours. I have tweaked their aggression several times during the course of the mod and feel it still needs more work based on these accounts.

I am currently working on an update for them that includes some toning down of their more complained about overpowering abilities. I will also be looking at their aggression level and industrial base but at the same time I do not want to defang them too much. As part of the update, I will be posting an updated strategy guide on the forum front page that includes what other players have recommended to tackle them. I have some spare time this week and will hopefully have it released by the weekend, Sunday at the latest.

I appreciate your concerns and thank you for the posting as it gives another opinion on them that is helpful.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V0.99 - 09/24/22
Post by: Dazs on September 24, 2022, 12:29:08 PM
v0.99 released today - 0.98 save compatible - some changes will only take effect in a new game

Graphical touchups on several ships, some difficulty nerfs, reformatted the forum OP with new images (shows the new touched up versions) and added a player (Candelestine on reddit) made strategy guide under the "tactics" spoiler tag on the forum OP. Changelog on the forum OP and in the RAR has all the details.

Most changes are player suggested so if you have any ideas or concerns please let me know, I appreciate them. I see my mods as a collaborative effort. The more player input I receive, the better I can make the mod which is good for all involved.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V0.99 - 09/24/22
Post by: Xomi on September 24, 2022, 12:58:50 PM
Hi, Dazz

Thank you for the update, i was able to load a new version in my game, so should be save compitable. Good mod, appreciate your work!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V0.99 - 09/24/22
Post by: Dazs on September 24, 2022, 01:06:41 PM
Hi, Dazz

Thank you for the update, i was able to load a new version in my game, so should be save compitable. Good mod, appreciate your work!

Thank you for the kind words, makes it worth the effort :) Enjoy!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V0.99 - 09/24/22
Post by: Bonisagus on October 02, 2022, 02:12:00 PM
Thanks for making a great and highly entertaining mod. I love both this one and Junk Yard Dogs dearly.

I have a question and a possible bug.

Is it truly intended that the Burrower-class Standard Drone Tender only cost 3 DP to field? That seems a tad on the cheap side.

I think the eyes are a bit bugged atm. They only show up for me after I "strip" a ship and then they keep showing up again and again if I strip it more times.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V0.99 - 09/24/22
Post by: Dazs on October 02, 2022, 02:40:59 PM
Thanks for making a great and highly entertaining mod. I love both this one and Junk Yard Dogs dearly.
That is so kind and nice to hear, thank you!
I have a question and a possible bug.

Is it truly intended that the Burrower-class Standard Drone Tender only cost 3 DP to field? That seems a tad on the cheap side.
Oh my that has to be a boo boo on my part since it is a cruiser it should be around 20-30 DP. I'll have that amended next update, thank you.
I think the eyes are a bit bugged atm. They only show up for me after I "strip" a ship and then they keep showing up again and again if I strip it more times.

Thanks again!
Well they ARE Bug eyes! (sorry for the dad joke) It could be because I originally had them as built-in but changed it to mounted so they could be looted.

I'll look into both issues and have a fix when I can. I am working on an update for JYD but these seem like quick fixes I can bang out tomorrow when I have a spare hour or so. Thank you for taking the time to let me know!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: Dazs on October 03, 2022, 04:14:42 AM
v1.0 released today - .99 save game compatible - Note: IF you have a captured Cleradie in your fleet it may need to be re-armed

Some BUG fixes and a spelling check, nothing as grand as a 1.0 release deserves I guess. Their fleets may be diminished a bit with the DP changes (fix) - Changelog on the Forum OP and in the RAR has the details

Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: sevhern on October 09, 2022, 05:59:28 AM
BTW the eyes regrow. I used to harvest the Hiver systems for the eyes. But now I just keep a farm of Hiver ships.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: Dazs on October 09, 2022, 12:35:09 PM
This is odd, in the last update I re-classified them to be just an energy weapon. Maybe if you have leftover ships from before the update when they were a built-in weapon that may be the case. If so, well enjoy the free money :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: sevhern on October 13, 2022, 09:49:14 PM
Love the mode. Svreraxx Catapult is too low at 22 op (I think should be at least 30). It's one of the best weapons in the game.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: Dazs on October 14, 2022, 05:03:17 AM
Love the mode. Svreraxx Catapult is too low at 22 op (I think should be at least 30). It's one of the best weapons in the game.
So nice to hear and thank you for the comment. I did make their weapons OP so they could hold their own against the entire sector gunning for them but you have a good point about them being too powerful in the player's hands. I am releasing a JYD update today and then I am working on some promised CFT updates but I'll work on a Hiver patch and should have something out next week.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: Island on October 19, 2022, 03:22:53 PM
Balance is wack as all hell. Ships are very strong (and surprisingly easily recoverable for how strong they are), but weapons are just stupidly broken. Like large energy weapon that's cheaper to mount than plasma cannon, longer range than plasma cannon, and more than 4 (!) times more flux efficient than plasma cannon at 0.3 flux per dmg. What?  :o And it's meant to be mid game boss faction? With weapons times stronger than end game Doritos tech??

And then these weapons are also like 10 times more expensive than vanilla guns, and can be found in random salvage all over the system without even meeting a bug fleet. Or purchased together with bug ships at any of countless bug-invaded planets in core systems.

You have to actively avoid using this easily accessible and crazily OP tech that has zero drawbacks, otherwise literally every other fight in game is a cakewalk. And if you fight bugs without using their tech - they are ridiculously hard to fight.

I'll compare it to Templars, for example. They are also way stronger than vanilla ships, and are meant to be sort of end game threat, but
1) they have counters that let you prepare to fight them specifically
2) their tech and ships are a lot harder to recover, and doesn't lie around abandoned mining stations
3) their tech is at least somewhat balanced against vanilla - ships cost a lot more DP to field, and weapons are extremely flux hungry, especially on vanilla ships.
Getting Templar gear is hard, it gives a huge advantage and feels strong, but it doesn't feel like typing "nuke" in console and autowinning every encounter.

I like the concept, but with this balance it's in such a weird place that it throws the rest of game's balance out of the window.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: Dazs on October 19, 2022, 08:11:09 PM
Hello there, thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. I am currently working on an update for Hiver Swarm so your post is very timely.
Balance is wack as all hell. Ships are very strong (and surprisingly easily recoverable for how strong they are), but weapons are just stupidly broken.
As to their ship recovery, that has also been an ongoing struggle between the players that do not want them recoverable at all and the players who want trophies for their hard work. As a balance, I made them explode on death and their salvaged ships usually 3 to 4 d-mods making them wrecks. I have been thinking of making a separate download to flag them unrecoverable like Remnant ships for players that do not want them but I have held off since I figured if a player did not want them, they could just opt to scrap them. It will delay the patch but I can add a separate ships.csv download that would make them unrecoverable, assuming I understand your comment correctly. Some clarity on that point would be appreciated.
Like large energy weapon that's cheaper to mount than plasma cannon, longer range than plasma cannon, and more than 4 (!) times more flux efficient than plasma cannon at 0.3 flux per dmg. What?  :o
It is hard to judge them comparing their tech to vanilla or most mod faction tech. In earlier versions of the mod I had them toned down but they just got destroyed by an entire NPC sector going after them and the player had little chance to interact with them. I have steadily increased both their tech as well as their aggression over the course of the mod. Their weapons are OP on purpose so they can not only just hold their own but steadily take over the sector if left unchecked. As stated earlier regarding ship recovery, I felt that if a player did not want to use the recovered weapons, they can opt to sell them or toss them out the airlock. I am unsure if I can make a patch that makes them unrecoverable but I will look into it.
And it's meant to be mid game boss faction? With weapons times stronger than end game Doritos tech??
I call them a mid-game threat because a player can ignore them up to a point. Typically by mid-game players have a planet fully colonized, a strong fleet with capitals and some backup ships stored on their planet. At that stage when you can afford to loose a fleet, I felt the game was lacking in threats from mid to end game.

Doritos tech, nice I like that. :) Well the thing is by having the entire sector their enemies, that includes the Remnant. One of things I noted in earlier versions was that their fleets were being decimated by Remnant before they even got to the core. It still makes their colony fleets pretty much a moot point because the game forces a weak fleet for that purpose and they are easily sniped.
And then these weapons are also like 10 times more expensive than vanilla guns, and can be found in random salvage all over the system without even meeting a bug fleet. Or purchased together with bug ships at any of countless bug-invaded planets in core systems.
I made them so expensive as a trophy to sell for players who lost so much defeating one of the fleets as a way of compensation and reward. You are correct that when NPC fleets fight them, there is loose salvage flying all around to be picked up. I am unsure but if I make their ships unrecoverable, I believe that would eliminate or at least reduce the amount of after battle salvage floating round. I cannot say if that is the case though until I do some testing.
You have to actively avoid using this easily accessible and crazily OP tech that has zero drawbacks, otherwise literally every other fight in game is a cakewalk. And if you fight bugs without using their tech - they are ridiculously hard to fight.
In the patch I am working on I have decided to increase their fleet point strength and deployment costs in order to lower their ability to field overlarge fleet deployments. That should make fighting them more manageable and reduce their fleet sizes and thus the amount of recoverable tech.
I'll compare it to Templars, for example. They are also way stronger than vanilla ships, and are meant to be sort of end game threat, but
1) they have counters that let you prepare to fight them specifically
2) their tech and ships are a lot harder to recover, and doesn't lie around abandoned mining stations
3) their tech is at least somewhat balanced against vanilla - ships cost a lot more DP to field, and weapons are extremely flux hungry, especially on vanilla ships.
Getting Templar gear is hard, it gives a huge advantage and feels strong, but it doesn't feel like typing "nuke" in console and autowinning every encounter.
Oh how I miss The Knights Templar as a mod, fond memories. Dark Revenant is a much more skilled coder than I am and it has not been updated for years but I'll see if I can still d/l it and look over the code for clues.
I like the concept, but with this balance it's in such a weird place that it throws the rest of game's balance out of the window.
Well that is sort of the point of the mod. I would not recommend installing them with no other player made faction mods to help keep them in check, they will destroy vanilla factions. I will add that to the forum OP as a disclaimer.

You have given me much to think about but I am a bit sleepy atm and heading off to bed so I apologize if I have not properly addressed your comments. I will do some research in the coming days and see how I can best address your concerns while keeping them a viable threat that the entire sector is gunning for. Any clarity or further opinions based on my replies would be appreciated. Thank you for taking the time and making the effort to share your opinions.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: e on October 19, 2022, 08:25:23 PM
Oh how I miss The Knights Templar as a mod, fond memories. Dark Revenant is a much more skilled coder than I am and it has not been updated for years but I'll see if I can still d/l it and look over the code for clues.

You could also take a look at the Legio Infernalis (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=14935.0) as the faction also follows a similar philosophy (Late game threat, somewhat op, needs player intervention to stop them, etc.) or even ask them for advice. (if they're willing)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: Asmodium on October 19, 2022, 11:01:27 PM
I have a idea for the swarm what if they don't start their Invasion till after a mission to one of their systems is completed then boom they begin the invasions, I have no idea if it's possible but thought I put it out there for people who wished they would wait a bit
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: Dazs on October 20, 2022, 05:06:36 AM
You could also take a look at the Legio Infernalis (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=14935.0) as the faction also follows a similar philosophy (Late game threat, somewhat op, needs player intervention to stop them, etc.) or even ask them for advice. (if they're willing)
I do have Tahlan Shipworks as an enabled mod, the Bento is one of my favorite ships and am always happy to get one from pirate fleets early game. I'll look into how Nia Tahl (also a coder way more experienced than I) has Legio set up as well, thank you for the recommendation.
I have a idea for the swarm what if they don't start their Invasion till after a mission to one of their systems is completed then boom they begin the invasions, I have no idea if it's possible but thought I put it out there for people who wished they would wait a bit
I did tinker with that idea earlier on but I could not get it to work as intended. It has to do with how Nex handles factions that can invade, they need to be set up at the start so they can be added to the pool of colonization/invasion factions. I did reach out to Histidine back in June for advice on that and they were very helpful and I was able to increase their aggression but essentially it came down to writing my own invasion code to delay it and um I am just an old guy with the most basic understanding of Java. I am learning more as I go and it is an interesting pursuit but that amount of code was beyond me when I attempted it. I would love to add story content and it is a goal but a long term one I am sorry to say.

I have to say it was so nice to wake up with two additional players offering advice. I am always so pleased with the community and how interactive and helpful they can be. Thank you both for your suggestions, more fuel for the furnace :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: Island on October 20, 2022, 01:39:32 PM
Hey. No worries, I was just throwing my impressions here, I understand that balancing boss faction is tough.

As to their ship recovery, that has also been an ongoing struggle between the players that do not want them recoverable at all and the players who want trophies for their hard work.
No I agree with people who think ships should be recoverable, just at much lower rate. Because so far I can get quite a few after every fight, which is not much lower than with vanilla ships.

It is hard to judge them comparing their tech to vanilla or most mod faction tech. In earlier versions of the mod I had them toned down but they just got destroyed by an entire NPC sector going after them and the player had little chance to interact with them.
I thought campaign layer encounters between NPC fleets is solved based on fleet points, not on actual weapon stats? I imagined just making them higher FP would solve the campaign layer problems without upsetting battle layer balance? No actual experience here though. Making them cost more deployment points cost sounds good though.

I made them so expensive as a trophy to sell for players who lost so much defeating one of the fleets as a way of compensation and reward.
Makes sense in battle salvage, but right now I find a bunch in just random salvage everywhere, mining stations, ruins and such. Maybe removing bug stuff from normal loot spawns would fix this. It should be a trophy from a tough fight, not just random find.

Oh how I miss The Knights Templar as a mod, fond memories. Dark Revenant is a much more skilled coder than I am and it has not been updated for years but I'll see if I can still d/l it and look over the code for clues.
There was an update for previous (.91?) version, I think it was just not posted in mod index.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to check out the update.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: Dazs on October 20, 2022, 03:10:58 PM
Hey. No worries, I was just throwing my impressions here, I understand that balancing boss faction is tough.
I appreciate that. I can be a challenge keeping up with three faction mods and poor little ole Ore Refinery, I really need to spruce that utility mod up at some point.
No I agree with people who think ships should be recoverable, just at much lower rate. Because so far I can get quite a few after every fight, which is not much lower than with vanilla ships.
Well as far as I can tell it is a binary option. I thought that by making them explode it would make them less recoverable but that is not the case, just more damaged. I was able to make a separate ship.data for the upcoming update that the player can replace the current one with that makes them unrecoverable.
I thought campaign layer encounters between NPC fleets is solved based on fleet points, not on actual weapon stats? I imagined just making them higher FP would solve the campaign layer problems without upsetting battle layer balance? No actual experience here though. Making them cost more deployment points cost sounds good though.
To a point yes you are correct. I also had to take into account the player battles. The way I have them set now, the AI is challenged as well as the player. I did increase their deployment and supply use by 15% for the next update. In testing it seems they are easier to manage.
Makes sense in battle salvage, but right now I find a bunch in just random salvage everywhere, mining stations, ruins and such. Maybe removing bug stuff from normal loot spawns would fix this. It should be a trophy from a tough fight, not just random find.
Well same for the weapons, a binary choice. I do have several blacklists so they do not show up in places like the Prism Freeport and some other modded ways of obtaining them. I will look over the SS code and see if there is a way to exclude them from ruin and mining station salvage as well. I also will be including an optional weapon_data.csv that, if used, will make their weapons unrecoverable as battle salvage.
There was an update for previous (.91?) version, I think it was just not posted in mod index.
I was unaware of that, I'll see if discord has anything. I did take e's suggestion and looked over Nia Tahl's code and found some tags I had not seen before and with some research was able to make the aforementioned optional files.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to check out the update.
That is good to hear. I was able to spend a couple hours today banging out code. Next will be some graphic updates and that will take a couple more hours when I get the chance. So no ETA as yet but I should have time this weekend to give Hiver some focus.

Thank you for the reply, it did clarify things for me.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: Harmful Mechanic on October 20, 2022, 03:45:32 PM
Makes sense in battle salvage, but right now I find a bunch in just random salvage everywhere, mining stations, ruins and such. Maybe removing bug stuff from normal loot spawns would fix this. It should be a trophy from a tough fight, not just random find.
Well same for the weapons, a binary choice. I do have several blacklists so they do not show up in places like the Prism Freeport and some other modded ways of obtaining them. I will look over the SS code and see if there is a way to exclude them from ruin and mining station salvage as well. I also will be including an optional weapon_data.csv that, if used, will make their weapons unrecoverable as battle salvage.
The 'restricted' tag will ensure that Hiver weapons never drop, unless you specify a drop group for them that ignores that tag (this is how Omega weapons work in the vanilla game.)

You can then make them available to the player by a number of methods (unique campaign entities that draw on a unique set of drop groups, listeners, scripted interactions) that you have more control over.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: Dazs on October 20, 2022, 03:57:05 PM
The 'restricted' tag will ensure that Hiver weapons never drop, unless you specify a drop group for them that ignores that tag (this is how Omega weapons work in the vanilla game.)
I added no_bp_drop, restricted, no_drop_salvage, no_dealer to the ship_data.csv tags and no_drop to weapon_data.csv and those seemed to to do the trick. I'll take your advice and add the restricted tag as well, thank you for the help.
You can then make them available to the player by a number of methods (unique campaign entities that draw on a unique set of drop groups, listeners, scripted interactions) that you have more control over.
That is where I start entering unknown territory that may as well say "here there be dragons" in my coding knowledge. I started this whole mod thing to learn Java and I guess that will be my next step in the learning process. Again, my thanks for the help.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: Harmful Mechanic on October 20, 2022, 04:06:40 PM
You can then make them available to the player by a number of methods (unique campaign entities that draw on a unique set of drop groups, listeners, scripted interactions) that you have more control over.
That is where I start entering unknown territory that may as well say "here there be dragons" in my coding knowledge. I started this whole mod thing to learn Java and I guess that will be my next step in the learning process. Again, my thanks for the help.
It's not that painful to do campaign entities - you can do pretty much all of it just in drop_groups.csv and salvage_entity_gen_data.csv, looking at the vanilla files for things like Remnant-tagged campaign entities.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: Dazs on October 20, 2022, 04:17:30 PM
Excellent, that is the clarity I need to start the process. Much appreciated, thank you.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: CaptainPhoenix on October 20, 2022, 05:40:09 PM
i like the one that looks like a mass effect reaper makes me hope we'll get a proper mass effect mod
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: Dazs on October 20, 2022, 05:53:52 PM
i like the one that looks like a mass effect reaper makes me hope we'll get a proper mass effect mod
That is great to hear, I saw it in Sprial Arms and was like yep that is going in the mod. I had to adjust it a bit to keep in line with EA's policies after I checked. They are super protective of their IP which is why there aren't any current mass effect mods. I checked with Kerberos Productions before I set out to make Hiver Swarm and as long as I gave them credit and it was non-profit they are ok with using their IP which is great.

I have seen people in discord talk about Hiver Swarm and mention SWOTS and other players asked what that was and essentially Kerebos got a couple sales by word of mouth. EA is just a stingy ole gump and it hurts them in the long run imo. Oh to have a Normandy top down representation to fly around in SS...
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: Kallith on October 21, 2022, 06:26:37 PM
Everytime I try and load this I get CTD , log below


46856 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Error loading [data.scripts.HIVERmodPlugin]
java.lang.RuntimeException: Error loading [data.scripts.HIVERmodPlugin]
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore$3.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: File 'data/scripts/world/systems/HIVER_Rizdet.java', Line 199, Column 25: Assignment conversion not possible from type "com.fs.starfarer.api.campaign.JumpPointAPI" to type "data.scripts.world.systems.JumpPointAPI"
   at org.codehaus.janino.JavaSourceClassLoader.generateBytecodes(JavaSourceClassLoader.java:226)
   at org.codehaus.janino.JavaSourceClassLoader.findClass(JavaSourceClassLoader.java:178)
   at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
   ... 2 more
Caused by: org.codehaus.commons.compiler.CompileException: File 'data/scripts/world/systems/HIVER_Rizdet.java', Line 199, Column 25: Assignment conversion not possible from type "com.fs.starfarer.api.campaign.JumpPointAPI" to type "data.scripts.world.systems.JumpPointAPI"
   at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.compileError(UnitCompiler.java:10174)
   at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.assignmentConversion(UnitCompiler.java:9071)
   at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.compile2(UnitCompiler.java:1845)
   at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.access$2000(UnitCompiler.java:185)
   at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler$4.visitLocalVariableDeclarationStatement(UnitCompiler.java:945)
   at org.codehaus.janino.Java$LocalVariableDeclarationStatement.accept(Java.java:2508)
   at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.compile(UnitCompiler.java:958)
   at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.compileStatements(UnitCompiler.java:1007)
   at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.compile(UnitCompiler.java:2293)
   at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.compileDeclaredMethods(UnitCompiler.java:822)
   at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.compileDeclaredMethods(UnitCompiler.java:794)
   at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.compile2(UnitCompiler.java:507)
   at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.compile2(UnitCompiler.java:393)
   at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.access$400(UnitCompiler.java:185)
   at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler$2.visitPackageMemberClassDeclaration(UnitCompiler.java:347)
   at org.codehaus.janino.Java$PackageMemberClassDeclaration.accept(Java.java:1139)
   at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.compile(UnitCompiler.java:354)
   at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.compileUnit(UnitCompiler.java:322)
   at org.codehaus.janino.JavaSourceClassLoader.generateBytecodes(JavaSourceClassLoader.java:224)
   ... 5 more
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: Dazs on October 21, 2022, 07:16:48 PM
Hello there, I am sorry to hear you are having issues. That line points to:

   JumpPointAPI jumpPoint = Global.getFactory().createJumpPoint("rizdet_jump_point1", "Tunguska Jump-point");

I have checked it against a complier with no issues and I have not touched that code since I put it in at inception so I have no idea why it would be causing a crash for you. The mod has been downloaded hundreds of times and this is the first jump related crash I have heard about so I am a unsure what could be causing it on your end. Are you using Linux by chance, I have had a couple issues in the past. What version of Java do you run the game in and have you updated your Java recently?

On a hunch, I looked at several other mods JumpPointAPI and most are the same but both ORA and SCY use a slightly different system. I am unsure why but I will tinker around and see if I follow their method it still works on my end. I will also do some research and ask around, maybe the API has changed since I added the jump points last year. Either way I'll get back to you and If I can find a fix, I'll add it in the upcoming patch.

Sorry I do not have a definitive answer at this time but I'll do my best to help as I can.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: Dazs on October 21, 2022, 07:52:09 PM
@Kallith I think I know what may be causing your issue now. Back in September Yunru released an update that somehow conflicted with my mods. Silver Anthony on discord stated "I deleted every file that had Yunru in either the name or in the name of an internal file, unzipped Yunruverse and the game literally just finished loading without crashing as I'm typing this I don't know what caused the issue, but it's now fixed " so try that.

I believe it had something to do with players overwriting Yunru's mods instead of deleting and installing. I suggested that fix to a couple other players and it worked for them as well. Sorry I kind of forgot about that since it was a month ago, I just remembered as I was doing some research.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: Kallith on October 21, 2022, 08:18:53 PM
only thing I have by Yunru if Slightly Better Techmining which i removed but still nogo, thanks for helping thou

**It was the Steelclad mod , just finished going thru them all checking . only been playing for a week still still checking mods out. Thanks for your help:)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: Dazs on October 22, 2022, 02:27:19 AM
**It was the Steelclad mod , just finished going thru them all checking . only been playing for a week still still checking mods out. Thanks for your help:)

Excellent, I am glad to hear you fixed it. And welcome to the Starsector Community.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: Spacegoat on October 23, 2022, 12:08:52 AM
Hi Dazs, I have a reproducible mod interaction to report that might be between Hiver Swarm and Nexerelin's invasion system. The bug doesn't happen if Legacy Invasions are enabled in Nexerelin config.

If I'm commissioned by any faction and invade a hiver-taken planet it will instantly end the invasion saying the commissioner and Hivers make peace. This is when both factions are -100 with each other. It only affects Hiver colonies.

Conditions this happens:
- When I'm commissioned by any vanilla or mod factions
- When the invasion target is owned by Hivers
- When Nexelerin turn-based invasions are enabled

Conditions that stop the behavior:
- I leave my commission then invade
- The invasion target isn't controlled by Hivers
- Enabling LegacyInvasions=true in Nexerelin config to disable turn-based invasions

Tested in version V1.0
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: Dazs on October 23, 2022, 04:30:03 AM
Well that is a new one, I am stumped as to why that would be the case. Invasions are a key feature of Hiver Swarm and I'll do my best to address it and most likely reach out to Histidine for help. No ETA on that unfortunately as my free time is sort of jammed up at the moment but Hiver is on my current patching rotation.

Thank you for taking the time to format the detailed information, it is very helpful.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: Fluffy_Fox_Loli on October 25, 2022, 12:14:01 AM
Lol one of the ships is literally just a Leviathan class Reaper from Mass Effect but painted green.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: Dazs on October 25, 2022, 12:34:03 AM
Lol one of the ships is literally just a Leviathan class Reaper from Mass Effect but painted green.
Hello there. Yes I get a lot of comments about that ship, mostly from people who would like to see a Mass Effect Mod. I saw it on Spiral Arms and thought yea that needs to be a Hiver ship :) I did modify it a bit with the re-coloring, landing lights and some other minor changes to make it just enough off to avoid IP infringement. I hope you are enjoying the mod and I am always open to any ideas to make it better if you would like to share them.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: Island on October 28, 2022, 02:49:50 PM
Some more (IMO) thoughts after more encounters with hiver -

selling price of the weapons is too high, even if meant as a miniboss reward. Usual mid-game fight gives me 25ish weapons, 250k each, on average, which would sell for around 3kk. I don't know what's your math behind it, but getting 500k for one hard midgame fight seems like a more appropriate reward, not current 3 millions.

Then missiles visuals does not match gameplay at all. In vanilla and like 99% of the mods, big nuke = big visible missile, crappy anti-fighter firecracker = tiny missile. In your mod I can see a few swarmer-ass looking missiles incoming - aaaand they strip half my armor as if they were harpoons. Very nice feedback, yes.

Then fighters are just mind-boggling. I get they are meant to be strong, but why would you make them also tanky to the point of eating multiple shots of cruiser's main weapons, not PD? Scorpyfly (I think) is not just OP enough to solo a destroyer, or face tank like 5 shots from Interstellar Imperium's Tripple Beam Cannon (large energy main cannon of a capital ship) but also feels stronger than most frigates from your own mod. It's like they're not just OP, but to the point where the mod's own line up feels unbalanced against itself.

Other fighters are more sane, although still IMO too tanky, and heavy hitters are not visually distinct enough. For example torpedo bombers in vanilla are easily distinguishable from fighters, but here, unless I pause the game and read fighter's stats, I can't tell which ones of these is carrying a fat torpedo in addition to regular IR pulse laser on steroids loadout. I think it's the rhombus-shaped ones, but would be a lot more readable if they had like a missile rack sticking out or something.

Not that I'm complaining, mind you, but I just feel the mod has a lot of potential, and it could shine much brighter with less "vanilla thing but number is 10x bigger" cases.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: Dazs on October 28, 2022, 03:22:08 PM
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts Island. I apologize for not having the update I was working on out yet and I will defiantly look over your notes for it but I have a bad case of Pneumonia and it has been sucking the life out of me the last couple days. I've been to the doctor and I am on sort of a bedrest routine at the moment but I'll hopefully be able to get back to updating mods again in a week or so.

Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: Island on October 30, 2022, 08:46:42 AM
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts Island. I apologize for not having the update I was working on out yet and I will defiantly look over your notes for it but I have a bad case of Pneumonia and it has been sucking the life out of me the last couple days. I've been to the doctor and I am on sort of a bedrest routine at the moment but I'll hopefully be able to get back to updating mods again in a week or so.

No pressure at all, real life goes first of course, hope you get well soon!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: Dazs on October 30, 2022, 09:27:10 AM
No pressure at all, real life goes first of course, hope you get well soon!
Thank you for the well wishes. I am on the mend and can go a whole 30 minutes without coughing which is a relief. I looked over your notes and have some questions that clarity would help me address them better:

selling price of the weapons is too high, even if meant as a miniboss reward. Usual mid-game fight gives me 25ish weapons, 250k each, on average, which would sell for around 3kk. I don't know what's your math behind it, but getting 500k for one hard midgame fight seems like a more appropriate reward, not current 3 millions.
Well that was a compromise I made when I increased the D-mods their recovered ships took. You may have a point though in that they may be too high since I looked at them as individual loot and not as a whole as you point out. I'll review them for the upcoming update. As a side note, I have made an alternate weapons file that is optional that players can overwrite the base one that will make the weapons unsalvageable.
Then missiles visuals does not match gameplay at all. In vanilla and like 99% of the mods, big nuke = big visible missile, crappy anti-fighter firecracker = tiny missile. In your mod I can see a few swarmer-ass looking missiles incoming - aaaand they strip half my armor as if they were harpoons. Very nice feedback, yes.
Yes that is an issue with some of my missiles in general. It was brought to my attention on the Carter's Freetraders thread as well. When I designed those missiles I was more concerned over the performance and have been balancing them based on that. I do thank you for pointing out the visual aspect can be as important and have been remiss in addressing it. I have already changed the CFT missiles and have a better understanding of the code. I will take what I learned from that and adjust the Hiver missiles for the upcoming patch.
Then fighters are just mind-boggling. I get they are meant to be strong, but why would you make them also tanky to the point of eating multiple shots of cruiser's main weapons, not PD? Scorpyfly (I think) is not just OP enough to solo a destroyer, or face tank like 5 shots from Interstellar Imperium's Tripple Beam Cannon (large energy main cannon of a capital ship) but also feels stronger than most frigates from your own mod. It's like they're not just OP, but to the point where the mod's own line up feels unbalanced against itself.
Well as a swarming race I felt that carriers should be the backbone of their fleets. It is also a trait shared by the Hivers of SWOTS but also is high armor and tanky ships. Perhaps I went overboard in trying to keep in lore with Kerebos's ship design and it needs a revisit. I am interested in your opinion on how to keep them a relevant threat if their armor and HP were reduced but also manageable to an extent for the player to fight against.
Other fighters are more sane, although still IMO too tanky, and heavy hitters are not visually distinct enough. For example torpedo bombers in vanilla are easily distinguishable from fighters, but here, unless I pause the game and read fighter's stats, I can't tell which ones of these is carrying a fat torpedo in addition to regular IR pulse laser on steroids loadout. I think it's the rhombus-shaped ones, but would be a lot more readable if they had like a missile rack sticking out or something.
Another great visual suggestion, thank you, it merits attention and I will look into it for the update.
Not that I'm complaining, mind you, but I just feel the mod has a lot of potential, and it could shine much brighter with less "vanilla thing but number is 10x bigger" cases.
No complaint taken, I appreciate constructive criticism. I see many comments on discord that are just trollish in nature and I do sometimes pick up an idea from them but it is comments such as yours that are well reasoned and thought out that are truly helpful.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.01 - Graphic & Balance Update 11/06/22
Post by: Dazs on November 06, 2022, 06:47:41 AM
Better late than never update v1.01 released today - My apologies for the delay but I had a bad case of pneumonia that knocked me for a loop and then catching up with R/L obligations put me two weeks behind in the scheduled release date.

Sprite updates for several ships, balance changes to make them more manageable, error corrections, new optional files that make ships and weapons unsalvageable and a new ship - Changelog on the forum OP and in the embedded RAR has all the details.

A special TY to Hyperion505 who supplied the replacement ship sprites in this patch. They can been seen on the Ship Image on the forum OP so give them a look see and a HI-5 to Hyperion 505!

As always, I am thankful for all the comments and suggestions that make the mod better for all of us so if you have any, please keep them coming.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.01 - Graphic & Balance Update 11/06/22
Post by: Dazs on November 06, 2022, 02:13:45 PM
Note: If you have a captured Aphid in your 1.00 save then by updating to 1.01 will crash the game. There is a mismatch in the weapon mount classifications on the ship. This will not effect saves that do not have an Aphid as the game only saves loadouts on player ships. I apologize for not catching that but I will not be uploading a change at this point because that would crash any 1.01 save with an Aphid.

But if you want to load your 1.00 save with an Aphid in your fleet with version 1.01 then there is a work around:

Install 1.01 then go to data\hulls and make a copy of the current Hiver_aphid.ship and put it somewhere for temp storage other than the hulls folder. Now open hiver_aphid.ship with notepad++ and change lines 23 and 32 from WS0005 and WS0006 to WS0003 and WS0004 and save. Load your game, sell/scrap your Aphid then save your game and exit. Go back to data/hulls and delete your edited copy of Hiver_aphid.ship and move the original file back to data\hulls. You can now load your 1.00 save and capture or console command (addship hiver_aphid_standard) a new Aphid if you would like one still.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.0 - 10/03/22
Post by: Island on November 09, 2022, 12:23:08 PM
and have some questions that clarity would help me address them better:
Sorry for the slow reply, was away from stable internet and starsector.
Quote
Well that was a compromise I made when I increased the D-mods their recovered ships took. You may have a point though in that they may be too high since I looked at them as individual loot and not as a whole as you point out. I'll review them for the upcoming update. As a side note, I have made an alternate weapons file that is optional that players can overwrite the base one that will make the weapons unsalvageable.
D-mods are barely a debuff at this point, and when you grab that skill that reduced DP of Dmodded ships - turns into a straight up buff, so I'm not sure it's the right way of compensating. Maybe a better balance for strong ships would be something like a hullmod in bioships that just makes ship less likely recoverable, like reinforced bulkheads but with negative number. I think other mods have these, like (I think) Second Wave options salvage chance hullmod.
But in general I feel like unsalvagable weapons are a lot less interesting way to approach balancing. Endgame enemy is good, but new toys is also good.
Weapons just should be hard to field in other ways. If it's something like giant damage of Templar guns - have them very flux-inefficient. Or if it's one of bugs' <0.7flux/dmg energy guns - make them obscenely OP-expensive. Now (or at least at 1.0, didn't with play the latest patch just yet) some guns are sane, like that buffed up 700 units ranged green IR laser with 1.3 flux/dmg, if maybe a bit too OP-cheap. But others are ridiculously powerful. Rising their OP cost a lot, like twice or more would be an easy place to start. It wouldn't affect hivers, as their ships already have more OP than they can shake a stick at, but maybe would allow players to find niche use for them, without making literally every vanilla weapon obsolete in comparison.

Quote
Well as a swarming race I felt that carriers should be the backbone of their fleets. It is also a trait shared by the Hivers of SWOTS but also is high armor and tanky ships. Perhaps I went overboard in trying to keep in lore with Kerebos's ship design and it needs a revisit. I am interested in your opinion on how to keep them a relevant threat if their armor and HP were reduced but also manageable to an extent for the player to fight against.
It's gonna be a big poorly structured IMO, but hivers sound like something relying on numerous heavy fighter drones that stay in a fight, hit hard, and are more heavily armored than vanilla fighters. You should have to invest heavily into PD, but at the same time if most of your weapons are dual use PD, and every ship has a integrated PD hullmod, fighters shouldn't be a problem, and you should be killed by bug cannons instead.
The biggest dissonance I'm getting from some hivers fighters right now, is that instead of staying in the fight and hammering at your unshielded sides, they frontload fat alphas of missiles like vanilla bombers, while also bringing destroyer-level armour. Like pick one, bro.
So instead of having bomber-like role, they should fly in, and fly around the target ship while spoon feeding dmg from pulse lasers and light phase lance sort of weapons. Devastating to unshielded and uncovered ass of low tech ships, and punishing high tech ships with no armour, makes you disengage until you get the fighters off you.
Maybe increase replacement time a bit to give some breezing room, especially for something as big and scary as scorpyfly.
If fighters are carrying missiles with limited ammo, have them fire them with few seconds cooldown, to give the player a chance to defend, and have the feeling of being swarmed by scary fighters instead of bombers just unloading and leaving.

Also more of a preference, but I'd prob not give them shields, as you often have to manually clap them with main cannons, and it's a lot more satisfying to see them explode and have a moment of rest while they deploy a replacement, than see one eating a salvo and continue biting your knees 2 seconds later. Not difficulty or balance wise, just the feeling.

Also, and I have no idea if it even can be implemented, it would be cool to give anti-fighter fighters more of a role. Like instead of just needing PD, also have a need for defensive fighters. But it's tricky because hiver fighters are already tanky to stay in fight under heavy PD, and defensive fighters usually have peashooters. Idk, maybe have some fighters with long range guns but less armour, that would be more vulnerable to fighters, but less so to PD? Or some code trickery like increased damage taken from fighters/reduced damage dealt to fighters? Skills modify that for your own fighters, so maybe there's a way.

Quote
No complaint taken, I appreciate constructive criticism. I see many comments on discord that are just trollish in nature and I do sometimes pick up an idea from them but it is comments such as yours that are well reasoned and thought out that are truly helpful.
Yeah, well, hiver balance is sort of a meme there. But you can't expect a wall-of-text criticism in discord, instant chats just don't do that very well, so nobody's even trying.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.02 - Happy Birthday Hivers! 11/18/22
Post by: Dazs on November 18, 2022, 07:06:36 AM
V1.02 released today - Save game compatible with v1.01

Some code changes, the details of which can be found in the changelog found in the RAR or on the forum OP. The major part of this update is a new Replacement Ships.rar that now also includes replacement weapon sprites. I want to thank Sparranova for all their help with base and part sprites that were used in the new ships sprites. With their help (as well as Prontus' original artwork on Spiral Arms I used as a base) I was able to kitbash together a consistent look to the the alternate pack. The image on the forum OP is updated with the new sprites if you want to take a peek :)

I am currently working on an all biological insect looking ship pack as well, no ETA on that but I wanted to get this update out in time for the 1 year anniversary of Hiver Swarm's release.

I am constantly thankful for and impressed with the Starsector community and their willingness to help a noob like me with my mods. I hope you all enjoy the changes and I look forward to your future comments and suggestions.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.02 - Happy Birthday Hivers! 11/18/22
Post by: littlejam on November 24, 2022, 05:17:59 PM
I always loved being the underdog in the sector. And you did a great job making the replacement ships graphics. They. look. awesome.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.02 - Happy Birthday Hivers! 11/18/22
Post by: Dazs on November 25, 2022, 04:06:14 AM
I always loved being the underdog in the sector. And you did a great job making the replacement ships graphics. They. look. awesome.
What a nice Thanksgiving gift! Thank you for the kind words I'll make sure to pass them on to Sparranova on discord who submitted cleaned up parts for me to kitbash with.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.02 - Happy Birthday Hivers! 11/18/22
Post by: ApolloStarsector on November 26, 2022, 06:47:02 PM
Fantastic mod. I love the idea and execution. Suggestions:

1) Too aggressive and too strong compared to the vanilla factions. Sindria conquered by hivers in the blink of an eye.
- Delay invasions by a cycle, decrease invasion fleet size, or decrease invasion frequency?
- I do like having an OP enemy, though. I like the direction you've gone (just maybe a little too far).

2) The vendor price for hiver weapons should be much lower. I made about 4 million credits after selling the weapons from a single medium-large battle.

Well done! This game badly needed insectoid aliens.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.02 - Happy Birthday Hivers! 11/18/22
Post by: Dazs on November 27, 2022, 05:13:37 AM
Fantastic mod. I love the idea and execution.
Good morning, thank you for the kind words I truly appreciate them!
Suggestions:

1) Too aggressive and too strong compared to the vanilla factions. Sindria conquered by hivers in the blink of an eye.
- Delay invasions by a cycle, decrease invasion fleet size, or decrease invasion frequency?
- I do like having an OP enemy, though. I like the direction you've gone (just maybe a little too far).
I have adjusted them several times over the course of the mod and it is tricky because some people play a closer to vanilla game and some people play a heavily modded game. The more faction mods a player has installed, the harder it is for the Hivers to succeed. They are currently tuned for a modded game with several faction mods (I currently have around 30 but that may be overkill). Some mods are more powerful than others but overall the Hivers will roll over the Vanilla factions (in my games they go after the Lud with a vengeance first). I guess I can make an alternate version that is weaker for those than play a more vanilla game, I'll give it some thought.
2) The vendor price for hiver weapons should be much lower. I made about 4 million credits after selling the weapons from a single medium-large battle.
They are more expensive than standard because I wanted a risk vs reward balancing offset for the amount of ships and crew you loose when fighting them. In the last patch I lowered the prices quite significantly, are you perhaps referring to their past pricing?
Well done! This game badly needed insectoid aliens.
Well Alex has his vision for the game and I respect that. I just thought an alien menace would add spice for those that found the game to easy combat wise.

My mods are a work in progress so any clarity or additional feedback is appreciated, it only makes the game better for all of us.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.02 - Happy Birthday Hivers! 11/18/22
Post by: ApolloStarsector on November 27, 2022, 10:23:49 PM
I did see your response to someone else about the balance being tuned for faction mods. So I’m currently doing a run with BLUE, RED, UAF, BRDY, and some others - all of which I avoided including in my other recent game with Hiver Swarm due to them being too OP (I thought, haha). Now I realize I want this power in the sector to check Hiver ambition!

A swappable config file or something would be a good idea, but up to you! I’m not sure if I found that big vendor price after the very most recent patch or not. In any case, I don’t mind being shorter on money, so I used your alternate non-lootable file.

Thank you!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.02 - Happy Birthday Hivers! 11/18/22
Post by: PilotBland on November 28, 2022, 01:00:09 AM
The balance for this mod is way, way out of wack for a vanilla-ish experience, I'm struggling to understand some of the balance choices, these fleets are incredibly strong compared to any other neighboring factions and decimate the core worlds in the matter of a few cycles in which every portion is inhabited by hivers. The fighters are EXTREMELY tanky compared to any other fighters and hard-hitting again, compared to any other fighters / bombers which require support to be all too impactful or are usually moreso nuisances.

I've sort of tried to understand your point on trying to not make the faction pushovers and maybe you're just competing with the other mods that ALSO overpower their factions, but these guys really take the cake with fleet size and kind of detracting from what I assumed would be bio-engineered ships which're fleshy, weaker yet more numerous or maybe some glass cannons or... something balance-y

but no, their weapons are INCREDIBLY strong, their hull + armor is incredibly durable (and apparently regenerates, which is easy to do when theres so many ships deployed per swarm fleet...) and they're numerous compared to other vanilla mods.

I think, if you want, you should establish a design philosophy for the hivers like oh, the fighters are weak but they're numerous and swarm like locusts, cause I ACTUALLY REALLY ENJOY the aesthetic and idea of bug-men from the corner of the system waging war and stirring ***. I wanna kill aliens, I think that's missing from vanilla.

A balance or an alt-mod where the stats are for a more vanilla-ish experience in their values would be cool

srry for ramble its late and im just sad I have to disable this mod and make a new save since bug-men basically consumed my vanilla-ish core worlds in 5 cycles
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.02 - Happy Birthday Hivers! 11/18/22
Post by: Dazs on November 28, 2022, 08:05:59 AM
I did see your response to someone else about the balance being tuned for faction mods. So I%u2019m currently doing a run with BLUE, RED, UAF, BRDY, and some others - all of which I avoided including in my other recent game with Hiver Swarm due to them being too OP (I thought, haha). Now I realize I want this power in the sector to check Hiver ambition!
Those are some strong factions, you should see a difference. I would also suggest Xhan empire https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=17972.0 That mod is really well done and has some good ships. But mostly because Peplat has their system situated almost perfectly between the Hiver system and the vanilla faction's systems. It unintentailly makes them a good bulwark to slow them down before they reach other systems.
A swappable config file or something would be a good idea, but up to you! I%u2019m not sure if I found that big vendor price after the very most recent patch or not. In any case, I don%u2019t mind being shorter on money, so I used your alternate non-lootable file.

Thank you!
Good to hear that. I have tried my best to make the Hivers as modular as possible with many alternate version files included. I like giving players options since I know we all have different playstyles and goals.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The balance for this mod is way, way out of wack for a vanilla-ish experience, I'm struggling to understand some of the balance choices, these fleets are incredibly strong compared to any other neighboring factions and decimate the core worlds in the matter of a few cycles in which every portion is inhabited by hivers. The fighters are EXTREMELY tanky compared to any other fighters and hard-hitting again, compared to any other fighters / bombers which require support to be all too impactful or are usually moreso nuisances.
I designed the ships to be tanky because they are hard coded to be enemies to the entire sector. In my games I have seen more than one faction invade their system at a time +/- my personal fleet at the same time. Also, they need to be able to stand up to multiple Remnant fleets when they send out invasion/colony fleets since their systems are way outside normal shipping lanes where the remnant fleets hang out and intercept.
I've sort of tried to understand your point on trying to not make the faction pushovers and maybe you're just competing with the other mods that ALSO overpower their factions, but these guys really take the cake with fleet size and kind of detracting from what I assumed would be bio-engineered ships which're fleshy, weaker yet more numerous or maybe some glass cannons or... something balance-y
Well they are an advanced alien species with better tech than Corvus factions. The focus of the mod is to have a more advanced enemy and a challenge to fight against. Balance isn't really a consideration since I never meant them to be a player faction. (Note: I have had several requests in the past which is why I have instructions on how to make them playable on the forum op if you really want to roll over the sector.)
but no, their weapons are INCREDIBLY strong, their hull + armor is incredibly durable (and apparently regenerates, which is easy to do when theres so many ships deployed per swarm fleet...) and they're numerous compared to other vanilla mods.
See above regarding weapons/hull and regen. I would, however, like some clarity on your numerous comment. Are you referring to the number of fleets they have out at once, the amount of ships in an individual fleet or how many ships they can deploy in combat?
I think, if you want, you should establish a design philosophy for the hivers like oh, the fighters are weak but they're numerous and swarm like locusts, cause I ACTUALLY REALLY ENJOY the aesthetic and idea of bug-men from the corner of the system waging war and stirring ***. I wanna kill aliens, I think that's missing from vanilla.
Well that is an idea I think I can work with, I just want to make sure I understand your point correctly. Are you suggesting that I reduce the stats of their individual fighters and bombers but add more ships per wing?
A balance or an alt-mod where the stats are for a more vanilla-ish experience in their values would be cool
I am in the process of making a more vanilla friendly version of the mod however that requires a lot of code manipulation. I am not sure I have the free time to release that in the near future as I also am working on making an all insect ship graphic pack oh and those pesky holidays where people would like to see me crawl out of my cave and visit them. :) The idea is on the Hiver to-do list so it will get done just no ETA, sorry.
srry for ramble its late and im just sad I have to disable this mod and make a new save since bug-men basically consumed my vanilla-ish core worlds in 5 cycles
OH no need to apologize, it is comments like yours that give me ideas and it makes the mod better for all.

I look forward to more rambling ;)

Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.02 - Happy Birthday Hivers! 11/18/22
Post by: MagnaSonic3000 on November 30, 2022, 01:30:17 AM
Hello, just posting some thoughts about the mod. So, there's a weird thing where you can't conquer Hiver worlds, because for what ever reason, if you have a faction commission, they sue for peace the second you invade, but they don't even have the positive relations to do that so, what gives? If a Hiver takes your planet, you're basically ***. Another thing is that these things don't seem to really bother with anyone else and seem to gun straight for me. Why is a faction bent on eating the sector only going after my faction?

All in all, they're a decent threat. Or, I would think so, but apparently a fleet of Star Destroyers isn't something they like dealing with, especially when you have a Secutor shooting halfway across the map that outranges every ship they have with never ending turbolaser fire. I have a few modded factions (the Star Wars one included), and I really don't see too many factions being swallowed up because they originally went after this one faction that was based on a sort of opposite to the Hegemony (they like the AIs and want to coexist), and their station alone was keeping all of their ships back before the support even got there. People have said here that they're tanky, but they don't seem that difficult to kill. Granted, they've only fought those guys in particular, and they don't seem to deal with Star Wars ships that well either, so I can't in fairness say they're lacking in strength. I'm just annoyed they seem to ignore everyone just because they have a hate boner for me.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.02 - Happy Birthday Hivers! 11/18/22
Post by: Dazs on November 30, 2022, 12:26:07 PM
Hello, just posting some thoughts about the mod. So, there's a weird thing where you can't conquer Hiver worlds, because for what ever reason, if you have a faction commission, they sue for peace the second you invade, but they don't even have the positive relations to do that so, what gives? If a Hiver takes your planet, you're basically ***. Another thing is that these things don't seem to really bother with anyone else and seem to gun straight for me. Why is a faction bent on eating the sector only going after my faction?
Hello there, I'll answer as best as I can but some clarity would help. You say they go after you first, which faction are you playing as and how many faction mods do you have installed?
All in all, they're a decent threat. Or, I would think so, but apparently a fleet of Star Destroyers isn't something they like dealing with, especially when you have a Secutor shooting halfway across the map that outranges every ship they have with never ending turbolaser fire. I have a few modded factions (the Star Wars one included), and I really don't see too many factions being swallowed up because they originally went after this one faction that was based on a sort of opposite to the Hegemony (they like the AIs and want to coexist), and their station alone was keeping all of their ships back before the support even got there. People have said here that they're tanky, but they don't seem that difficult to kill. Granted, they've only fought those guys in particular, and they don't seem to deal with Star Wars ships that well either, so I can't in fairness say they're lacking in strength. I'm just annoyed they seem to ignore everyone just because they have a hate boner for me.
I do not have the Star Wars mod enabled so I have not tested them against it. Is that the faction you are playing as? (see above) Also, you may want to review my response to MagnaSonic3000 above your post, they had some similar concerns that I tried to address in my response.

Thank you for taking the time to post a detailed report, that helps. I'll look into that mod while I await any response you can give to help me narrow down your concerns.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.02 - Happy Birthday Hivers! 11/18/22
Post by: hello7op on December 17, 2022, 04:27:06 AM
I did it, I crush those disgusting insect system  :) .

On serious note, I have fun figuring out how to build ship to fight them, it definitely a challenge but doable. I hope you don't nerf them too much and keep it as a challenge. I can understand why some complain about how OP and aggresive they are, on a light modded run about 8 additional faction, they don't get invade on their homeworld often enough , so they can focus on conquer on other faction territory. Also you can't really use alpha strike low range build against them so maybe it limit build a bit.

I don't know if you need to balance them for everyone to enjoy, cause everyone has different playstyle. And I don't think you need to, it a mod after all. One suggestion, maybe just keep their superior flux armor and shield stat, and nerf all of their ship top speed by 5, keep the reverse speed the same, so they can still do the retreat and heal strategy.

Thanks for making and updating the mod !
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.02 - Happy Birthday Hivers! 11/18/22
Post by: Dazs on December 17, 2022, 05:16:52 AM
I did it, I crush those disgusting insect system  :) .
Cheers, achievement unlocked!
On serious note, I have fun figuring out how to build ship to fight them, it definitely a challenge but doable. I hope you don't nerf them too much and keep it as a challenge. I can understand why some complain about how OP and aggresive they are, on a light modded run about 8 additional faction, they don't get invade on their homeworld often enough , so they can focus on conquer on other faction territory. Also you can't really use alpha strike low range build against them so maybe it limit build a bit.
Agreed. I made them to be a challenge for a modded game. I'll add a disclaimer in the next update stating that.
I don't know if you need to balance them for everyone to enjoy, cause everyone has different playstyle. And I don't think you need to, it a mod after all. One suggestion, maybe just keep their superior flux armor and shield stat, and nerf all of their ship top speed by 5, keep the reverse speed the same, so they can still do the retreat and heal strategy.
I am happy with their current state and though I do see complaints on discord it is mainly about the art assets. The next update will be a graphic overhaul of the ships in the main pack to be all insect looking (The alternate mechanical pack is complete) and at this stage I have no plans to adjust their stats or add ships. Not that I am opposed to it, I just do not see a need personally but if someone has a good idea, I will consider implementing it.
Thanks for making and updating the mod !
Thank you so much, it is such a treat to get a kind word. I could not have gotten this far without player input and help and I am so thankful when someone reaches out.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.02 - Happy Birthday Hivers! 11/18/22
Post by: steve1592 on December 25, 2022, 06:43:35 PM
One thing I've noticed is that the Hiver faction isn't hostile to all modded factions. For example Imperium, and this means that they will boost hiver power through trade.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.02 - Happy Birthday Hivers! 11/18/22
Post by: Dazs on December 25, 2022, 07:26:52 PM
One thing I've noticed is that the Hiver faction isn't hostile to all modded factions. For example Imperium, and this means that they will boost hiver power through trade.
Thank you for the heads up. I have not looked into yet as I am away for the holiday (Merry Christmas all!) but at a guess I would say it is most likely because they have similar alignments. I'll be back Tuesday to take a peek under the hood and have a better answer then.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.02 - Happy Birthday Hivers! 11/18/22
Post by: steve1592 on December 25, 2022, 08:57:31 PM
No worries. I really like the mod because it fills a niche for an evil type faction, and makes the world feel more alive albeit a tad overbearing. I also have extra incentive to wipe them out because they dominate all trade and go after the size 8 cities early on. Having more modded factions recognize them as evil and push back a bit would also help balance the difficulty as well.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.02 - Happy Birthday Hivers! 11/18/22
Post by: Harmful Mechanic on December 25, 2022, 11:50:06 PM
Merry Christmas to you too, Dazs. In that spirit...

If you want to make your faction omni-hostile to the whole sector without having to set all the relations manually, use this code:
Code
List<FactionAPI> factionList = sector.getAllFactions();
        FactionAPI hivers = sector.getFaction("HIVER");

        for (FactionAPI faction : factionList) {
            if (faction != hivers &&
                !faction.isNeutralFaction()) {
                hivers.setRelationship(faction.getId(), RepLevel.VENGEFUL);
            }
        }
You want the cutout for neutral factions so the Hivers don't do the equivalent of getting in a fight with a tree. But this way you don't have to update the mod every time someone adds a new faction, either.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.02 - Happy Birthday Hivers! 11/18/22
Post by: Dazs on December 26, 2022, 03:47:54 AM
Merry Christmas to you too, Dazs. In that spirit...

If you want to make your faction omni-hostile to the whole sector without having to set all the relations manually, use this code:
Code
List<FactionAPI> factionList = sector.getAllFactions();
        FactionAPI hivers = sector.getFaction("HIVER");

        for (FactionAPI faction : factionList) {
            if (faction != hivers &&
                !faction.isNeutralFaction()) {
                hivers.setRelationship(faction.getId(), RepLevel.VENGEFUL);
            }
        }
You want the cutout for neutral factions so the Hivers don't do the equivalent of getting in a fight with a tree. But this way you don't have to update the mod every time someone adds a new faction, either.
Well slap me silly. I spent so much time hunting down the prefix for every major faction and flagging them individually. Ah well all part of the learning process. Now pardon my noobness but which file should I add the code? I am assuming HIVER_gen.java but just want to make sure. OH an in that same spirit, I am very thankful for the helpful posts and advice you've given me since I started modding.
No worries. I really like the mod because it fills a niche for an evil type faction, and makes the world feel more alive albeit a tad overbearing. I also have extra incentive to wipe them out because they dominate all trade and go after the size 8 cities early on. Having more modded factions recognize them as evil and push back a bit would also help balance the difficulty as well.
Great, I made them with that in mind. I am so happy when people enjoy the mod and welcome the challenge they provide. I agree with your summation that the more factions that hate them the better, it is almost a requirement. With the code help above, I should have an easy fix in tomorrow when I get back to my PC. I have been busy with R/L stuff and general holiday merry making that I am no where near complete with the insect ship replacements but I'll get the hotfix out asap.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.02 - Happy Birthday Hivers! 11/18/22
Post by: Rotok on December 29, 2022, 02:07:47 AM
I have been using this mod for more than a year, yet just now realized there was an alternative ship/weapon skin pack included in the mod folder to make the ships more Mechanical-Organic and less Lexx-Organic.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.02 - Happy Birthday Hivers! 11/18/22
Post by: Dazs on December 29, 2022, 07:13:49 AM
I have been using this mod for more than a year, yet just now realized there was an alternative ship/weapon skin pack included in the mod folder to make the ships more Mechanical-Organic and less Lexx-Organic.
Indeed. I do my best to accommodate different aesthetic tastes. I know some people really do not like insects and that can be a positive when they are an enemy race but also an avoidance to using the mod due to revulsion. In the current state of the mod there are several overlaps between the main and alternate pack and the end goal is to have two separate looks. I have been collaborating with HuginBlar and we have re-designed the Catcher, Crabby, Emperor, Eyes, Deathfly, Hornet. Moth, Prince, Snipper, and Viridula to be organic looking for the main pack so far. We still have to replace seven more so no real eta on the release but it is a work in progress.

Also I have successfully incorporated Harmful Mechanic's code and am in the middle of testing it. Sorry steve1592 for not having a fix out yesterday as I said I would as it was more complicated that I assumed and testing each faction to ensure a Vengeful lockdown is a bit time consuming but that WILL be included when I release the new organic ships.

As an ancillary note, I am thinking of making the alternate weapon pack just the base weapons because I think that Sparranova's art is superior to mine so any thoughts from Hiver Swarm users on that would be appreciated.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.02 - Happy Birthday Hivers! 11/18/22
Post by: steve1592 on December 30, 2022, 09:34:36 AM
No worries, keep up the good work.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.02 - Happy Birthday Hivers! 11/18/22
Post by: steve1592 on January 05, 2023, 02:29:55 PM
eagerly awaiting the new update, and perhaps if you are gaining access addtional weapon models perhaps you can add some more weapons to the hiver arsenal :) and make use of the art assets.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.02 - Happy Birthday Hivers! 11/18/22
Post by: Dazs on January 05, 2023, 04:22:38 PM
eagerly awaiting the new update
So am I, so much work has been put into this update I want to share it asap. We have the Caelifera, Catcher, Ceruchu, Cleridae, Crabby, Emperor, Eyes, Deathfly, Hornet, Lucanidae, Moth, Prince, Scarabaeus, Scarab, Snipper, Viridan, Viridula replaced with organic looking versions. We still have 4 more to go and I have some code work to do so I cannot give an estimated release date yet but free time to work on the mod is opening up now that the holidays have passed.
perhaps if you are gaining access addtional weapon models perhaps you can add some more weapons to the hiver arsenal :) and make use of the art assets.
Well I am thinking of using the sprites from Sparranova donation that I use on the alternate weapon pack but if time allows we may make more organic looking versions. As to adding to their arsenal, they currently rely on energy pulse weapons and missiles. I do not see them using ballistic but I could see maybe a beam. Either way, if I add more weapons it would have to be unique to their current lineup. I have not given it much thought yet but I would welcome ideas that are Hiver lore friendly.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.02 - Happy Birthday Hivers! 11/18/22
Post by: steve1592 on January 05, 2023, 07:49:06 PM
A nice big green colored bio beam would be fitting I think. Reminiscint of FTL's beam anti bio beam. Maybe the large beam can deal super strong fragmentation damage or cause crew members to die. (beyond my coding abilities.)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.02 - Happy Birthday Hivers! 11/18/22
Post by: Dazs on January 06, 2023, 06:34:59 AM
A nice big green colored bio beam would be fitting I think. Reminiscint of FTL's beam anti bio beam. Maybe the large beam can deal super strong fragmentation damage
It is a good idea but I would have to be careful not to infringe on the star federation mod that is already out there (great mod btw, recommended). Anyway yes a frag beam is not in their current lineup of weapons. 
or cause crew members to die.(beyond my coding abilities.)
mine too :)

To implement new weapons I think I would need to add additional ships because I spent a lot of time balancing the current lineup. We do have some sprites that we decided were not good candidates for replacements but could be used to make new ships though. However, I do feel their fleet is pretty complete with all roles filled for an insular faction. So taking into consideration what the Hivers already have, are there any ship roles you (or anyone else for that matter) think they could benefit from?

Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.02 - Happy Birthday Hivers! 11/18/22
Post by: steve1592 on January 06, 2023, 03:31:35 PM
I'm pretty bad at coming up with additional ships so maybe I'll just have to be happy with the upcoming update
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Dazs on January 09, 2023, 03:08:00 PM
Update 1.03 is finally here! - Sort of save game compatible - Your 1.02 game will load and work but a new game start is needed to load the faction relation code changes

Total rework of the ship graphics in the base pack. No more Spiral Arms sprites, no more overlap with the Mechanical pack, just a selection of handmade ships that look like biological hulls as was initially intended for the mod. The Portraits were also replaced from the low-rez versions taken with permission from Sword of the Stars (great 4x game, you should check it out) with upgraded cleaner versions.

There is a new ship, a new drone, a new line of fragmentary damage beams and many code changes including a fix so that relations with Hivers will never become friendly. Many more notes to be found in the changelog found in the RAR or on the forum OP. All the new graphics can be found on thier respective images on the forum OP - worth a peek, I promise!

A round of thank you for the kind people who have helped with 1.03
- TY Harmful Mechanic for generously donating code to reset rep to vengeful if any faction or player reaches neutral.
- TY steve1592 for the suggestion of adding the beam weapons, noting they lacked a fragmentation damage weapon.
- TY KMS so much for writing a "Comsec Declassified" lore entry that I added to the forum main page - worth a read, check it out!
- A HUGE thank you for my partner in this graphic overhaul, HuginBlar who spent dozens of hours over three months swapping ideas, sprites and generally being a great person to work with!

I do hope you enjoy these changes and it makes your enjoyment of the mod even better. I am always open to comments and suggestions for any of my mods so please reach out on the forum pages or in discord, I check each daily.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: alaricdragon on January 11, 2023, 04:02:16 PM
played with this mod. its quite fun, but i have some things to say:
first of all, i like how they fight. quite strong, and they feel dangerous, but not invincible. i like the way how the nexerlin factions just try there best to destroy them whenever they take a core world. (by mass invasions on said world.)
they feel like a real threat, and they are lovely and deadly to fight against. but i have some issues:

first of all, the weapons are to costly. like, sure the eyes are expensive, but they are collector items. they feel very good to get and sell, but its nothing ridiculous.
the other weapons though, sell way to well. i can fight a fleet of there's, then sell the guns i get for 1 - 3 mill easy. every time. it give me so mush credits that nothing else in the game is worth doing, if i want credits at least. like i get them being costly, because they are good and we want to study them or whatever, but it invalidates almost all the credit based challenge of the game for me.
they could do with a slight nerf is all IMO

and secondly, its slightly frustrating that there worlds always have the best prices on everything. it makes it slightly harder to find good trade roots. could you maybe buff some of there worlds accessibility? so they don't 'overstock' on goods all the time?

sorry if my words are kind of mean, i really do enjoy this mod. its not for every playthrough, but its still very fun.
best wishes.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: steve1592 on January 11, 2023, 04:19:30 PM
Cool perfect timing, my new graphics card comes in a couple days, can't wait to load 20 faction mods counting yours. Also I echo alaricdragon's sentiments. Nice work with everything
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Dazs on January 11, 2023, 04:31:32 PM
played with this mod. its quite fun, but i have some things to say:
first of all, i like how they fight. quite strong, and they feel dangerous, but not invincible. i like the way how the nexerlin factions just try there best to destroy them whenever they take a core world. (by mass invasions on said world.)
they feel like a real threat, and they are lovely and deadly to fight against.
The mod has gone though several version of trying to get it right and I am so glad to hear that.
but i have some issues:

first of all, the weapons are to costly. like, sure the eyes are expensive, but they are collector items. they feel very good to get and sell, but its nothing ridiculous.
the other weapons though, sell way to well. i can fight a fleet of there's, then sell the guns i get for 1 - 3 mill easy. every time. it give me so mush credits that nothing else in the game is worth doing, if i want credits at least. like i get them being costly, because they are good and we want to study them or whatever, but it invalidates almost all the credit based challenge of the game for me.
they could do with a slight nerf is all IMO
Well I did inflate the cost of their weapons as a way to offset a player's losses by fighting them. I recently lowered it but yours is not the only concern I've read about it so I'll adjust that even lower in the next patch.
and secondly, its slightly frustrating that there worlds always have the best prices on everything. it makes it slightly harder to find good trade roots. could you maybe buff some of there worlds accessibility? so they don't 'overstock' on goods all the time?

sorry if my words are kind of mean, i really do enjoy this mod. its not for every playthrough, but its still very fun.
best wishes.
Oh no not mean at all, quite constructive in fact and I am grateful for it. I was unaware they had that effect on the sector, I guess because I play as a scavenger and not a trader. I'll have to give that a deep dive to figure how I can address that. After that marathon update I just posted I am taking at least a week break and actually playing the game :) And after that I have some things I need to fix/add to Carter's Freetraders but I will have your concerns on my to-do list for Hivers for 1.04.

Cool perfect timing, my new graphics card comes in a couple days, can't wait to load 20 faction mods counting yours. Also I echo alaricdragon's sentiments. Nice work with everything
Hi Steve, I was hoping to hear back from you and your thoughts on the update thank you for the kind words!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: steve1592 on January 11, 2023, 04:52:43 PM
yes, I would say that the weapon prices should be brought down a bit. Also as someone who likes doing trading activities they pretty much dominate the commodity board with being the cheapest places to buy stuff. If you have a mod like stellar networks on every commodity page you see a see of green where hiver cities are producing stuff super cheap. Which is a bit annoying. I understand you have to make them a superfaction but its a little non immersive. Maybe something to think about for next update.

Also in looking at the prices for the weapons. Many times the large weapons have prices close to 60,000 base cost while the medium is also 60,000. Maybe making more differentiated weapon costs because logically smaller weapons should cost less.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Dazs on January 11, 2023, 06:36:29 PM
yes, I would say that the weapon prices should be brought down a bit. Also as someone who likes doing trading activities they pretty much dominate the commodity board with being the cheapest places to buy stuff. If you have a mod like stellar networks on every commodity page you see a see of green where hiver cities are producing stuff super cheap. Which is a bit annoying. I understand you have to make them a superfaction but its a little non immersive. Maybe something to think about for next update.
At a guess I think it is because I gave them a super economy since no one will trade with them and they need to be self sufficient. How I can do that while also not effecting the economy as a whole I will need to do some research.
Also in looking at the prices for the weapons. Many times the large weapons have prices close to 60,000 base cost while the medium is also 60,000. Maybe making more differentiated weapon costs because logically smaller weapons should cost less.
That's a good point and one I will take into consideration thank you.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Volsungare on January 16, 2023, 01:35:49 PM
Was rereading this and might be regretting putting this in my game :D. Is there a way to make saturation orbital bombardments (rather than go through nexerelin ground invasions) of this faction not cause rep loss with the humanoid factions? I mean, one would think they wouldn't mind and how would they know your fleet did it if hiver worlds are on the edge of the map dozens of light years away from the core...
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Dazs on January 16, 2023, 02:28:59 PM
Was rereading this and might be regretting putting this in my game :D. Is there a way to make saturation orbital bombardments (rather than go through nexerelin ground invasions) of this faction not cause rep loss with the humanoid factions? I mean, one would think they wouldn't mind and how would they know your fleet did it if hiver worlds are on the edge of the map dozens of light years away from the core...
Well the issue with sat bombardments is some factions regard them an atrocity no matter who you use them against. When setting up factions, there is a flag labeled in the faction file found under data\world\factions near the bottom "caresAboutAtrocities": which you can set to true or false. Now I am far from an expert but it is my understanding that if it is set to True then that faction cares about any sat bombings and pretty much consider you a monster for such mass murder. Of course I AM a noob modder so if anyone reading this knows better then please educate me.

I am sort of taking a little break from mod tinkering after doing a weeks long graphic update with this one then all the tedious work of stripping 40 some hull mods out of JYD and CFT ships then making a fourth mod back to back to back. Yea I know worlds smallest violin and all :), just letting you know that I do take this seriously but it'll take a bit while my brain resets and I'll have to do some research and get back to you with a better answer.

SOO TLDR: I'll look into it and get back to you once I am better educated.

Thank you for letting me know this was an issue with Hiver, I do want it to run correctly. I rely on people such as yourself that take the time to let me know.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Volsungare on January 16, 2023, 03:58:05 PM
I am not sure I would call this an issue. I also want to make it clear, I am not an experienced player, have never started a colony (or even finished main story), and just decided to go crazy with faction mods. I only just created the sector with them and have maybe 60 minutes of exploration in, so I haven't even fought them once. My question was more of an idea given how it appears (from reading spoiler text) this race acts as a devouring swarm.

With that disclaimer out of the way, two ways to combat the reputation loss came to mind. But I have no idea how hard either implementation is.
1) Run a check on a player orbital bombardment action, if it is against Hiver race apply a reputation gain (maybe more than the loss as you are doing factions a favor?). I imagine vanilla factions this would be easy to do but not sure about other modded factions.
2) Would be activate above check once Hivers colonize X# of systems. Maybe flag it as a multi year bounty? Cash/minor rep for fleet destruction and 5 rep per planet wiped clean?

Another suggestion, is there a way to hide their starting planets? I could immediately see where they started. Took a bit of the fun/horror out of adding them in and finding them.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Dazs on January 16, 2023, 04:47:17 PM
I am not sure I would call this an issue. I also want to make it clear, I am not an experienced player, have never started a colony (or even finished main story), and just decided to go crazy with faction mods. I only just created the sector with them and have maybe 60 minutes of exploration in, so I haven't even fought them once. My question was more of an idea given how it appears (from reading spoiler text) this race acts as a devouring swarm.
I set them up as an enemy faction and depending on how many modded factions you have enabled thier danger level varies. IE the more enemies they have the lesser threat they are to you plus you as the player have a better chance of piggybacking on a faction invasion an letting them lead the charge while you "help" and maybe pick up the scraps ;)
With that disclaimer out of the way, two ways to combat the reputation loss came to mind. But I have no idea how hard either implementation is.
1) Run a check on a player orbital bombardment action, if it is against Hiver race apply a reputation gain (maybe more than the loss as you are doing factions a favor?). I imagine vanilla factions this would be easy to do but not sure about other modded factions.
The various factions do sometimes put bounties on them in which case yes you can gain rep with the faction that posted the bounty by killing Hivers but I have never seen them ask for a planet invasion. Otherwise your reputation will only change slightly and killing Hivers is probably the hardest way to get a rep increase anyway so I would not recommend it :)
2) Would be activate above check once Hivers colonize X# of systems. Maybe flag it as a multi year bounty? Cash/minor rep for fleet destruction and 5 rep per planet wiped clean?
I am not sure if that is even a thing in the game but it is beyond my knowledge at any rate. Sounds like a nice feature but Nex is pretty hard coded and I would have to check with Histidine before even attempting something like that. Food for thought though.
Another suggestion, is there a way to hide their starting planets? I could immediately see where they started. Took a bit of the fun/horror out of adding them in and finding them.
Well I did have them hidden in their original release but I learned later on that they only way to get them to invade and colonize was if I set them up as a playable faction. Once I did that their planets showed up on the map by default. I was able to hide them in the codex and the intel tab but that is best I could do to keep some mystery.

There are a couple enemy races from other mods, Blade Breakers and Agni come to mind and they are not set up to as playable like Hivers are so they are not on the map and you'll find them while you explore. You may want to check out their respective mods:
https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=12553.0 for Agni
https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=11322.0 for Blade Breakers

I am sure there are more but it is a good start. I would recommend both mods to a new player such as yourself for their quality content in any case.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Volsungare on January 16, 2023, 05:43:55 PM
I am not sure I would call this an issue. I also want to make it clear, I am not an experienced player, have never started a colony (or even finished main story), and just decided to go crazy with faction mods. I only just created the sector with them and have maybe 60 minutes of exploration in, so I haven't even fought them once. My question was more of an idea given how it appears (from reading spoiler text) this race acts as a devouring swarm.
I set them up as an enemy faction and depending on how many modded factions you have enabled thier danger level varies. IE the more enemies they have the lesser threat they are to you plus you as the player have a better chance of piggybacking on a faction invasion an letting them lead the charge while you "help" and maybe pick up the scraps ;)
With that disclaimer out of the way, two ways to combat the reputation loss came to mind. But I have no idea how hard either implementation is.
1) Run a check on a player orbital bombardment action, if it is against Hiver race apply a reputation gain (maybe more than the loss as you are doing factions a favor?). I imagine vanilla factions this would be easy to do but not sure about other modded factions.
The various factions do sometimes put bounties on them in which case yes you can gain rep with the faction that posted the bounty by killing Hivers but I have never seen them ask for a planet invasion. Otherwise your reputation will only change slightly and killing Hivers is probably the hardest way to get a rep increase anyway so I would not recommend it :)
2) Would be activate above check once Hivers colonize X# of systems. Maybe flag it as a multi year bounty? Cash/minor rep for fleet destruction and 5 rep per planet wiped clean?
I am not sure if that is even a thing in the game but it is beyond my knowledge at any rate. Sounds like a nice feature but Nex is pretty hard coded and I would have to check with Histidine before even attempting something like that. Food for thought though.
Another suggestion, is there a way to hide their starting planets? I could immediately see where they started. Took a bit of the fun/horror out of adding them in and finding them.
Well I did have them hidden in their original release but I learned later on that they only way to get them to invade and colonize was if I set them up as a playable faction. Once I did that their planets showed up on the map by default. I was able to hide them in the codex and the intel tab but that is best I could do to keep some mystery.

There are a couple enemy races from other mods, Blade Breakers and Agni come to mind and they are not set up to as playable like Hivers are so they are not on the map and you'll find them while you explore. You may want to check out their respective mods:
https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=12553.0 for Agni
https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=11322.0 for Blade Breakers

I am sure there are more but it is a good start. I would recommend both mods to a new player such as yourself for their quality content in any case.

I do have Blade Breakers.  Regarding the option 1, it was more of an "unlisted" reward for wiping out their planets via orbital bombardment rather than something that would come from an NPC request. Only times I saw NPC bounties for world conquering is when they fail land invasions themselves. And that was in the Star Wars mod, haven't seen it so far outside of that.

I do find it amusing they just offered a bounty for a human traitor though...
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: RenegadeCEO on January 24, 2023, 12:10:21 AM
So, gonna chime in here as a new player: I uninstalled them after 20 hours because they are ridiculously broken.

They are a difficult faction to fight, yes, but not impossible.  Their weapons are 3-4 bars ABOVE everything else I've fought in the game, including other modded factions AND the Remnants.  The weapons combined with the simple fact they dont send out *small* fleets...only MASSIVE (hitting the ship/fleet limit) capital ship heavy(on avg 6+ cap ships per fleet) fleets also makes them a royal pain to deal with, but these fleets can be countered.

None of that was why I removed the mod.  I removed it because they annihilated many all the core worlds with bombardments/take overs and then absolutely bent the economy over a table and  rammed a ping-pong paddly in paddle first. I attached 3 snips of what the market has been like for the last 16 hours of gameplay.  In the colony tab they have the largest "market" in the sector by over double the next.

This faction isnt one of those "Starts in a corner spreading steadily while still playing by the rules" like I thought it was gonna be, its more of a "We kill randomly and sporadically and then have some cheat level economy that lets up maintain an unrealistic tempo".  Seriously, they flew across the sector once (60+LY) to bombard a *BRAND NEW COLONY* I had just set up... I was not pleased.

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Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Paragon Bane on January 24, 2023, 06:15:01 AM
Is there any way to make their weapons drop-only?

In the current default setting you will only get empty hiver bp in exploration yet their weapons can be purchased from illegal arms dealers.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Dazs on January 24, 2023, 06:17:17 AM
So, gonna chime in here as a new player: I uninstalled them after 20 hours because they are ridiculously broken.
I would like to start my reply by first thanking you for taking the time to post your concerns.
They are a difficult faction to fight, yes, but not impossible.  Their weapons are 3-4 bars ABOVE everything else I've fought in the game, including other modded factions AND the Remnants.  The weapons combined with the simple fact they dont send out *small* fleets...only MASSIVE (hitting the ship/fleet limit) capital ship heavy(on avg 6+ cap ships per fleet) fleets also makes them a royal pain to deal with, but these fleets can be countered.
This is by design. Initially I had them send out weaker fleets and they were sniped by the remnant before they even reached the core worlds. I needed to increase their power in order for them to be a threat to an entire sector that hates them and constantly invades them. I am not done with the mod by any stretch and am always trying to fine tune it and I take your concerns to heart.
None of that was why I removed the mod.  I removed it because they annihilated many all the core worlds with bombardments/take overs and then absolutely bent the economy over a table and  rammed a ping-pong paddly in paddle first.
There is a built in time limit before they can start their invasions to give the player a build up period, however they cannot be ignored passively after that. The key to keeping them from spreading is to help defend systems they are invading and not just leaving it to the NPC fleets to handle them. Their invasions are announced and can be tracked. The way I keep their economic impact in check when I play against them is looking for their trade fleets and taking them out before they reach their destination. They are meant to be an active threat that the npcs can get overwhelmed by and the player has to fight against them to make the difference. 
I attached 3 snips of what the market has been like for the last 16 hours of gameplay.  In the colony tab they have the largest "market" in the sector by over double the next.
I have their system economy buffed because initially they have no trading partners and they need the income to field their fleets. The issue is usually because as they colonize and take more systems, their economy buffs exponentially because now they can trade with those taken over systems. I am currently looking into trying to keep their power levels high but manageable but also limit their economic impact. I looked into a couple posts on the economy but have yet to figure a way to do that. I'll try reaching out to other mod makers and see if an answer can be found there.
This faction isnt one of those "Starts in a corner spreading steadily while still playing by the rules" like I thought it was gonna be, its more of a "We kill randomly and sporadically and then have some cheat level economy that lets up maintain an unrealistic tempo".  Seriously, they flew across the sector once (60+LY) to bombard a *BRAND NEW COLONY* I had just set up... I was not pleased.
I am curious at what time stamp did this happen? You state initially that you played against them for 20 hours. In my games I can usually head off their invasion fleets within a couple hours of play and build up and do not colonize a system until I have a fleet that can defend it.

I find your feedback constructive but I do "hear" your frustration. My focus in the last patch was making them more ascetically pleasing but in the one I am working on next is a balance patch so any details given is very helpful.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Dazs on January 24, 2023, 06:27:31 AM
Is there any way to make their weapons drop-only?

In the current default setting you will only get empty hiver bp in exploration yet their weapons can be purchased from illegal arms dealers.
I do have them blacklisted on the Prism Freeport trading list so I know they will not show there. As to arms dealers I am not sure if you are referring to the base SS dealers or one of the mod added dealers like SCY's Amity Freeport or Industrial Evolution has (both of which I also have a blacklist for) so if there is another mod that has them that I am unaware of I'll look into blocking it. When you say an empty BP I am not sure what you mean by that. I have gotten their BP from research stations and in fighting them and was able to learn the designs like any other BP.

Thank you for your feedback and any clarity you could give would be appreciated so I can better answer your questions.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: RenegadeCEO on January 24, 2023, 03:40:21 PM
This faction isnt one of those "Starts in a corner spreading steadily while still playing by the rules" like I thought it was gonna be, its more of a "We kill randomly and sporadically and then have some cheat level economy that lets up maintain an unrealistic tempo".  Seriously, they flew across the sector once (60+LY) to bombard a *BRAND NEW COLONY* I had just set up... I was not pleased.
I am curious at what time stamp did this happen? You state initially that you played against them for 20 hours. In my games I can usually head off their invasion fleets within a couple hours of play and build up and do not colonize a system until I have a fleet that can defend it.

I find your feedback constructive but I do "hear" your frustration. My focus in the last patch was making them more ascetically pleasing but in the one I am working on next is a balance patch so any details given is very helpful.

Was about 10-15ish hours in (time just *poofs* when I play this game).  Found a nice star system with a tern world and a blackhole nearby 4ly away with frozen worlds so i was starting to setup a nice little industry and before i even got the first industry up they saturation bombarded it.

I was also not playing as any of the core factions, I was playing as the UAF (The Anime Cat People Mod with sweet ships) so I started in the lower left and it made countering hiver fleets *incredibly* time/resource intensive. 

I was honestly expecting an enemy more like the Scourge from Stellaris where they're more an end game faction that comes in *really* late, but that was just my noob ass reading the description and having not played the game before.  I'd love to re-active this mod if you can get this whole "steam-rolling the economy" problem sorted. 

It was fun luring them into traps and then salvaging their weapons and turning their own weapons against them on UAF ships :D  I had a cruiser frame kitted out with some of their stupidly powerful energy cannons and it was going toe-to-toe with their ships every battle (cept the dreadnaughts... god those are chonky).
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Dazs on January 25, 2023, 01:28:20 AM
Was about 10-15ish hours in (time just *poofs* when I play this game).  Found a nice star system with a tern world and a blackhole nearby 4ly away with frozen worlds so i was starting to setup a nice little industry and before i even got the first industry up they saturation bombarded it.
Thank you for the time stamp clarification, that helps. And yes SS can be a Zen experience and I've looked up at the clock myself wondering where the time went :)
I was also not playing as any of the core factions, I was playing as the UAF (The Anime Cat People Mod with sweet ships) so I started in the lower left and it made countering hiver fleets *incredibly* time/resource intensive. 
Hmm, that is interesting. Personally, I have not played as UAF as my aesthetic is low tech sort of scuffed and beaten up ships so I cannot say from first hand experience but I have read on the Hiver reddit threads that UAF is one of the Mod factions that are OP enough to stand up to them. Another one I have read and experienced is that Xahn Empire https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=17972.0 is a good one to have installed as a NPC faction since their system is directly in the Hiver invasion path and they do a pretty good job of defending the sector. Plus it is a well done mod and I recommend it either way.
I was honestly expecting an enemy more like the Scourge from Stellaris where they're more an end game faction that comes in *really* late,
Oh my talk about a great time sink, Stellaris and I go way back :)
but that was just my noob ass reading the description and having not played the game before. 
Don't beat yourself up about it, I am flattered that you chose to add them in your first playthrough. I will write a better description on the main page that they are a boss faction that you do have time to prepare for but one that the player has to take an active role in defeating them starting around mid-game and can be an end goal achievement if you do not have many mod factions to help.
I'd love to re-active this mod if you can get this whole "steam-rolling the economy" problem sorted. 
I would recommend playing a few games without them to get a better feel of the game and more relaxed pace then when you feel you would like a challenge, well they are waiting for you....
It was fun luring them into traps and then salvaging their weapons and turning their own weapons against them on UAF ships :D  I had a cruiser frame kitted out with some of their stupidly powerful energy cannons and it was going toe-to-toe with their ships every battle (cept the dreadnaughts... god those are chonky).
The Emperor is a beast ship for sure, chonky lol I like that description. I have it's deployment points set very high so it won't have many escorts in order to make it manageable but if you see one in the incoming fleet and you don't have some big boys on your own, running is not the worst idea :)

Well thank you again for your clarifications and giving me the idea to better describe them. I am a bit backlogged on mod updates at the moment but CFT should have an update by the weekend then I have a release schedule of my other mods after. Hiver is sort of last on the list since I just spent so much time on it and neglected my other mods. Soooo, figure it may be a couple weeks before I can dedicate the time to investigate and implement an economy re-work for them but do know that it is on the punch list and will be released eventually(tm)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Kris_xK on January 25, 2023, 03:06:26 PM
I moved UAF home systems into the path of the Hiver Invasions fleets for when I want a more relaxed game and its worked quite well. Its a bit of a dance to keep them far enough away from the core to not get distracted by the Legios, but they're very good at occupying the Hivers while I finish off the Heg.

Im so far removed from vanilla that I'm unsure if this is Vanilla or a mod conflict, but I do constantly get a) Bounty missions and B) Rep Gain from destroying hostile-to-hiver fleets. While its not a an earth shattering problem and can be resolved with a quick setreputation command, it does feel weird to be +80 Rep with the Hivers after finishing off a different villain faction.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Dazs on January 25, 2023, 07:39:06 PM
I moved UAF home systems into the path of the Hiver Invasions fleets for when I want a more relaxed game and its worked quite well. Its a bit of a dance to keep them far enough away from the core to not get distracted by the Legios, but they're very good at occupying the Hivers while I finish off the Heg.
Yea that is a strategy I have read on reddit. UAF is very strong and can go toe to toe with them apparently. I should give it an install at some point and see for myself.
Im so far removed from vanilla that I'm unsure if this is Vanilla or a mod conflict,
OH yea I am moded to the gills myself, I actually recommend people have several faction mods installed before trying to take on Hivers, they will roll over the vanilla factions.
but I do constantly get a) Bounty missions and B) Rep Gain from destroying hostile-to-hiver fleets. While its not a an earth shattering problem and can be resolved with a quick setreputation command, it does feel weird to be +80 Rep with the Hivers after finishing off a different villain faction.
Hmm I am scratching my head on that one, I have all kinds of rep blockers in to prevent a rep gain that high. As to them posting bounties, that is because I have them set as a "playable" faction so they will invade and colonize, with that comes some things like bounties that I would rather they did not but that is sort of out my hands. I have code that Harmful Mechanic nicely donated that should auto reset at neutral and go back to vengeful even if you get rep from a bounty to that's a new one for the to-do list.

Thank you for the input, I appreciate it. I just put out a JYD update and CFT is next on the punch list but I should have some free time end of next week to deep dive the issues that have cropped up for Hiver. I swear I am going to get this mod correct 100% (one day) :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Volsungare on January 26, 2023, 06:03:36 AM
Is there any way to make their weapons drop-only?

In the current default setting you will only get empty hiver bp in exploration yet their weapons can be purchased from illegal arms dealers.
I do have them blacklisted on the Prism Freeport trading list so I know they will not show there. As to arms dealers I am not sure if you are referring to the base SS dealers or one of the mod added dealers like SCY's Amity Freeport or Industrial Evolution has (both of which I also have a blacklist for) so if there is another mod that has them that I am unaware of I'll look into blocking it. When you say an empty BP I am not sure what you mean by that. I have gotten their BP from research stations and in fighting them and was able to learn the designs like any other BP.

Thank you for your feedback and any clarity you could give would be appreciated so I can better answer your questions.

I have seen Hiver ships (usually the big haulers plus one or two other ships) in every Illegal Arms Dealer in bars (base game). I honestly haven't checked weapons as I picked up every (I believe) Hiver weapon pack in the first 3-4 hours of gameplay from exploration, along with most of the ships... "Vanilla" install of the mod. Not sure if this would be possible, but I suggest unless the user flips the mod to be a playable faction (per your post), the weapons/blueprint packs are removed from loot/arms dealer tables and the ships are set to unsalvageable. Alien bio tech and all.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Dazs on January 26, 2023, 08:39:14 AM
I have seen Hiver ships (usually the big haulers plus one or two other ships) in every Illegal Arms Dealer in bars (base game). I honestly haven't checked weapons as I picked up every (I believe) Hiver weapon pack in the first 3-4 hours of gameplay from exploration, along with most of the ships... "Vanilla" install of the mod. Not sure if this would be possible, but I suggest unless the user flips the mod to be a playable faction (per your post), the weapons/blueprint packs are removed from loot/arms dealer tables and the ships are set to unsalvageable. Alien bio tech and all.

I'll look into it in more depth when I can. I just got out a JYD update and am working on a CFT one released hopefully by the weekend. Once that is done and I am caught up with r/l stuff, I *should* have some time to go over all the notes I have complied from player feedback such as yours and make a punch list to work on for Hiver. I cannot say at what time I can have a Hiver update out since some of the notes require some deep diving and until I get to it it would be hard to give a time frame. Just know that your concern is on my to-do and a I thank you for the update, details matter in an investigation (you get the reference I give you a prize:))

As a temp solution I recommend you enable the two optional files that make Ships and Weapons unrecoverable for players. The instructions are on the forum OP under spoilers. That *should* block arms dealers form selling them but I have not tested that so perhaps? (tm)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Volsungare on January 26, 2023, 07:56:52 PM
Can do. I did see another potential option for the bombardment. I went to bombard a pirate base to wipe it out and noticed the Hivers and MVS factions had such an intense hatred they would overlook the atrocity... Not sure if that is something you could set for the other factions?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Dazs on January 27, 2023, 12:09:08 AM
Can do. I did see another potential option for the bombardment. I went to bombard a pirate base to wipe it out and noticed the Hivers and MVS factions had such an intense hatred they would overlook the atrocity... Not sure if that is something you could set for the other factions?
I currently have them flagged as caring about atrocities as a way of keeping the player hatred flowing. However if you are already hated by Hivers then there is a a point where they could not hate you more than Vengeful so bomb away! I am not sure what you mean by setting it for other factions though so some clarity on that point would be appreciated.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Volsungare on February 01, 2023, 06:36:25 PM
Can do. I did see another potential option for the bombardment. I went to bombard a pirate base to wipe it out and noticed the Hivers and MVS factions had such an intense hatred they would overlook the atrocity... Not sure if that is something you could set for the other factions?
I currently have them flagged as caring about atrocities as a way of keeping the player hatred flowing. However if you are already hated by Hivers then there is a a point where they could not hate you more than Vengeful so bomb away! I am not sure what you mean by setting it for other factions though so some clarity on that point would be appreciated.

Sorry for the late reply. I was wondering if it was possible to somehow set the other factions to detest hivers so they would overlook orbital bombardments against the hivers.

On a separate note: I believe I found a bug. I had unlocked the hiver blueprints (everything except wings and small ships) from research station finds. But there is no BioTech category in weapons for me to manufacture the weapons on my colonies, the ships (and fighters when I tested that) show up fine. I planned on tweaking the files for the next game but this game I am kind of just going nuts for fun.

Edit: The weapons show up fine for arms dealers.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Dazs on February 01, 2023, 08:19:10 PM
Sorry for the late reply. I was wondering if it was possible to somehow set the other factions to detest hivers so they would overlook orbital bombardments against the hivers.
Not a problem, I appreciate the clarity, it helps. Well I have the hivers hate everyone and they are set to an "Evil" temperament that all the "good" and "neutral" factions will automatically hate them but the "evil" factions like Legio seem to like them at first. I plan to a deep dive on Hivers this weekend I opened a good block of time to do some research. Of course Alex just posted some dev notes so some of that time will be trying to prepare for what's next for SS. :)
On a separate note: I believe I found a bug.
Found a bug? of course you did they are an insectoid race! :P 
I had unlocked the hiver blueprints (everything except wings and small ships) from research station finds. But there is no BioTech category in weapons for me to manufacture the weapons on my colonies, the ships (and fighters when I tested that) show up fine. I planned on tweaking the files for the next game but this game I am kind of just going nuts for fun.
Quick clarity question, are you using the Industrial Evolution mod for manufacturing?
Edit: The weapons show up fine for arms dealers.
Looking into how the arms dealers work is part of my punch list for the weekend. I just got out a CJHM update out and I need to slap together a hotfix for CFT tomorrow but I do plan to have the Hiver's economy issues ironed out by Monday.

Thank you for the update
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Volsungare on February 02, 2023, 05:32:05 AM
Sorry for the late reply. I was wondering if it was possible to somehow set the other factions to detest hivers so they would overlook orbital bombardments against the hivers.
Not a problem, I appreciate the clarity, it helps. Well I have the hivers hate everyone and they are set to an "Evil" temperament that all the "good" and "neutral" factions will automatically hate them but the "evil" factions like Legio seem to like them at first. I plan to a deep dive on Hivers this weekend I opened a good block of time to do some research. Of course Alex just posted some dev notes so some of that time will be trying to prepare for what's next for SS. :)
On a separate note: I believe I found a bug.
Found a bug? of course you did they are an insectoid race! :P 
I had unlocked the hiver blueprints (everything except wings and small ships) from research station finds. But there is no BioTech category in weapons for me to manufacture the weapons on my colonies, the ships (and fighters when I tested that) show up fine. I planned on tweaking the files for the next game but this game I am kind of just going nuts for fun.
Quick clarity question, are you using the Industrial Evolution mod for manufacturing?
Edit: The weapons show up fine for arms dealers.
Looking into how the arms dealers work is part of my punch list for the weekend. I just got out a CJHM update out and I need to slap together a hotfix for CFT tomorrow but I do plan to have the Hiver's economy issues ironed out by Monday.

Thank you for the update

At least they don't suddenly show up late early game, deploy gates in two dozen systems, and then move said systems worth of resources back to their homeworld....

I am not currently using Industrial Evolution, but I plan to on my next game (probably after the next SS patch hits and the mods are updated). The only mods I am using that affect colonies (that I am aware of) are 'Nexerelin', 'Slightly Better Techmining', 'Modified Industry Requirements - No Pollution', and 'Dynamic Tariffs'. I have ~ 75 or so active mods currently.

Personally, I am in no rush for an update/bugfix since applying other recent mod updates would break my savegame. It currently looks like the Hivers have been curbstomped pretty hard and only have one homeworld remaining
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Dazs on February 02, 2023, 07:47:48 AM
At least they don't suddenly show up late early game, deploy gates in two dozen systems, and then move said systems worth of resources back to their homeworld....
Nex put a time limit on when invasions can happen so you are fairly safe early game. Personally I find I have time to form an exploration fleet, amasses some wealth, find a decent planet to colonize and build up a defense fleet with some decent officers before they start invading in mass.
I am not currently using Industrial Evolution, but I plan to on my next game (probably after the next SS patch hits and the mods are updated). The only mods I am using that affect colonies (that I am aware of) are 'Nexerelin', 'Slightly Better Techmining', 'Modified Industry Requirements - No Pollution', and 'Dynamic Tariffs'. I have ~ 75 or so active mods currently.
That helps thanks again for taking the time to give even more clarity.
Personally, I am in no rush for an update/bugfix since applying other recent mod updates would break my savegame. It currently looks like the Hivers have been curbstomped pretty hard and only have one homeworld remaining
Well I do plan to do an update this weekend but after that unless there is a crash error or something that needs my attention, I plan to let all my mods sit tight until there is more information on the next SS release date. I looked over the Dev notes and it looks like SS is up for some major renovations and I am looking forward to it as a player but no so much as a mod creator (work work work) :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Volsungare on February 02, 2023, 08:24:09 AM
On my phone so keeping this one short. My joke about the gates was in reference to how I usually saw Hivers played in Sword of the Stars. No issues with invasions or raids, and I saw Hiver raids against NPCs almost immediately when I started this game. If you need full mod list I can provide that that this evening in a post or via discord.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Overseer on February 06, 2023, 08:36:59 AM
Ah yes! This mod! I've created several portraits representing the Hive from "borrowed" image sources!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Overseer on February 06, 2023, 08:37:38 AM
Several more!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Overseer on February 06, 2023, 08:38:00 AM
Last bunch!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Dazs on February 06, 2023, 08:55:40 AM
Ah yes! This mod! I've created several portraits representing the Hive from "borrowed" image sources!
Good morning, these look very nice and I can certainly incorporate them into the mod. I only ask where were they borrowed from? I make sure I only use free to use assets and just want to give credit where it is due.

@To all concerned about their market - I have tried a few different ways to tone down their market impact but keep their strong invasion fleets, however, I cannot seem to balance them. I realize I said I should have it out by the weekend and I thank you for your patience. It takes time to make changes load a game and let it run long enough to see the effects and I apologize for not having it released yet. I have one more idea that I am going to run tonight and if that does not work then I will try asking around for help.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Overseer on February 07, 2023, 06:19:14 AM
Ah yes! This mod! I've created several portraits representing the Hive from "borrowed" image sources!
Good morning, these look very nice and I can certainly incorporate them into the mod. I only ask where were they borrowed from? I make sure I only use free to use assets and just want to give credit where it is due.

They're Shirrens! Alien insectoid bug creatures from Starfinder. It's a RPG game developed by Paizo Publishing. I'm sure you can use these aliens under fair use since they're not Hasbro!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Overseer on February 07, 2023, 06:21:20 AM

@To all concerned about their market - I have tried a few different ways to tone down their market impact but keep their strong invasion fleets, however, I cannot seem to balance them. I realize I said I should have it out by the weekend and I thank you for your patience. It takes time to make changes load a game and let it run long enough to see the effects and I apologize for not having it released yet. I have one more idea that I am going to run tonight and if that does not work then I will try asking around for help.
[/quote]
Going to be honest with you chief, I was under the impression their constant invasion everywhere was the point of this mod!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Dazs on February 07, 2023, 06:55:09 AM
They're Shirrens! Alien insectoid bug creatures from Starfinder. It's a RPG game developed by Paizo Publishing. I'm sure you can use these aliens under fair use since they're not Hasbro!
OK thank you for the clarity, I was unfamiliar with the property. I looked into it and they have very strict rules about using their IP. They have a very in depth page on their website that outlines their legal policies and though I think those portraits are very nice, I do not think I could legally incorporate them in a third party use without their implicit permission.

TLDR: Thank you so much for the submission and I think they would be a great addition, I do not think I could legally use them.

Going to be honest with you chief, I was under the impression their constant invasion everywhere was the point of this mod!
Indeed that is the core concept. It is meant for players that want a combat challenge harder than pirates but not quite as hard as going against Ordo grand fleets. I do however want to make the mod as acceptable as possible to all types of play styles. Be assured that in my quest to balance the economy versus the challenge, challenge takes precedence.

@all interested on a quick update on patch progress: I have several player requested fixes in and ready for release so the weekend wasn't a total scrub. On the economy front, rather then going with the failed hours of testing different economy setups, I had the brilliant idea of seeing if I could just have Hivers just not show up on the market tab. That being said, I have a query out to Jaghaimo on the Stelnet forum to see how to go about doing it so fingers crossed, I can have an update out soon(tm) :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Myraid on February 07, 2023, 07:47:58 AM
Need some help, don't want to have to disable this mod and never actually invaded their homeworlds before so never noticed if this was an issue from other mods as their fleets don't seem to have these issues.

1) Cannot invade Hiver planets or Stations. I can do the invasion, send troops, lose them and their resources but after the first cycle, it completely resets the invasion as if they were never attacked. Other factions seem to have this same issue trying to attack them.
2) Orbital Stations are unreasonably resilient. I've spent over 20 minutes of non stop bombardments with a dedicated anti-shield and anti-hull fleet averaging around 170k damage per second from the entire fleet and I cannot eliminate their stations at all without using weapons which completely ignore shields since their shields never seem to get destroyed.

Weirdly none of their fleets seem to have this issue and no other faction has these issues. I am not using any cheat commands other than Debug, and even playing with Debug disabled does not alter the outcome.

The current mod list is:

"PAGSM",
  "yunruindustries",
  "anotherportraitpack",
  "apex_design",
  "armaa",
  "lw_autosave",
  "timid_admins",
  "chatter",
  "timid_commissioned_hull_mods",
  "lw_console",
  "diyplanets",
  "diableavionics",
  "exoticatechnologies",
  "XLU",
  "GrandColonies",
  "gundam_uc",
  "HIVER",
  "illustrated_entities",
  "IndEvo",
  "Imperium",
  "timid_xiv",
  "keruvim_shipyards",
  "kyeltziv",
  "lw_lazylib",
  "ArkLeg",
  "exshippack",
  "mag_protect",
  "MagicLib",
  "Mayasuran Navy",
  "more_hullmods",
  "nexerelin",
  "officerExtension",
  "oas",
  "pn",
  "Polaris_Prime",
  "progressiveSMods",
  "QualityCaptains",
  "tahlan_scalartech",
  "SCY",
  "Seafood",
  "shadow_ships",
  "swp",
  "mayu_specialupgrades",
  "sw",
  "swf",
  "sun_starship_legends",
  "alcoholism",
  "Terraforming & Station Construction",
  "star_federation",
  "timid_tmi",
  "TORCHSHIPS",
  "underworld",
  "uaf",
  "vic",
  "yunru_arsenal",
  "yunru_cunt",
  "yunru_ht",
  "yunruhullmods",
  "yunru_midline_expansion",
  "yunrucore",
  "mir_np",
  "shaderLib"

The only thing that could potentially be affecting it to my knowledge is Quality Captains but I didn't modify any of the values. All the modifications to config files were to economics and additional structures being enabled for terraforming. The base files were altered to increase fleet size and deployment costs, this shouldn't be causing effective immortality to shields though and if it did, it should be reproducible in more than just one faction.

At this point, about to just disable the mod entirely as it's the only one having such weird issues and it makes fighting the faction entirely impossible as I can't get rid of any of their planets or stations without cheating by just deleting every one of their structures to force it to reset the ownership.

Tested with and without all the mods in here, even when by itself I have these issues.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Overseer on February 07, 2023, 07:54:30 AM
In addition to the aliens, I've made four more! I've decided the gold armored bug should be the prince.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Overseer on February 07, 2023, 07:55:51 AM
They're Shirrens! Alien insectoid bug creatures from Starfinder. It's a RPG game developed by Paizo Publishing. I'm sure you can use these aliens under fair use since they're not Hasbro!
OK thank you for the clarity, I was unfamiliar with the property. I looked into it and they have very strict rules about using their IP. They have a very in depth page on their website that outlines their legal policies and though I think those portraits are very nice, I do not think I could legally incorporate them in a third party use without their implicit permission.

TLDR: Thank you so much for the submission and I think they would be a great addition, I do not think I could legally use them.

Going to be honest with you chief, I was under the impression their constant invasion everywhere was the point of this mod!
Indeed that is the core concept. It is meant for players that want a combat challenge harder than pirates but not quite as hard as going against Ordo grand fleets. I do however want to make the mod as acceptable as possible to all types of play styles. Be assured that in my quest to balance the economy versus the challenge, challenge takes precedence.

@all interested on a quick update on patch progress: I have several player requested fixes in and ready for release so the weekend wasn't a total scrub. On the economy front, rather then going with the failed hours of testing different economy setups, I had the brilliant idea of seeing if I could just have Hivers just not show up on the market tab. That being said, I have a query out to Jaghaimo on the Stelnet forum to see how to go about doing it so fingers crossed, I can have an update out soon(tm) :)

Oh. Nevermind then!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Overseer on February 07, 2023, 08:10:32 AM
I was debating on whether or not I should post the last portrait. But you know what? I like this one! I'm going to show it off because I'm proud of this one!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Dazs on February 07, 2023, 10:18:10 AM
Need some help, don't want to have to disable this mod and never actually invaded their homeworlds before so never noticed if this was an issue from other mods as their fleets don't seem to have these issues.
I appreciate you taking the time to rely your findings and I will do my best to help.
1) Cannot invade Hiver planets or Stations. I can do the invasion, send troops, lose them and their resources but after the first cycle, it completely resets the invasion as if they were never attacked. Other factions seem to have this same issue trying to attack them.
I am not sure what could be causing that. I have invaded their planets and NPC fleets have invaded them as well in my games. I do not have the same mods enabled that you do so maybe the answer lies there.
2) Orbital Stations are unreasonably resilient. I've spent over 20 minutes of non stop bombardments with a dedicated anti-shield and anti-hull fleet averaging around 170k damage per second from the entire fleet and I cannot eliminate their stations at all without using weapons which completely ignore shields since their shields never seem to get destroyed.

Weirdly none of their fleets seem to have this issue and no other faction has these issues. I am not using any cheat commands other than Debug, and even playing with Debug disabled does not alter the outcome.
Now that one is a true pickle. I purposely did not make Hiver stations since I thought that would be too OP. They use standard vanilla high tech stations, the larger planets have battle stations and they can be difficult but they should be no different than fighting a tri-tachyon planet.
The only thing that could potentially be affecting it to my knowledge is Quality Captains but I didn't modify any of the values. All the modifications to config files were to economics and additional structures being enabled for terraforming. The base files were altered to increase fleet size and deployment costs, this shouldn't be causing effective immortality to shields though and if it did, it should be reproducible in more than just one faction.
I use Quality Captains as well so I do not think it is that. I have not altered fleet size and deployment on my end though so I would assume that would effect fights. Have you tried setting them to default values before an invasion to see if there was a difference?
At this point, about to just disable the mod entirely as it's the only one having such weird issues and it makes fighting the faction entirely impossible as I can't get rid of any of their planets or stations without cheating by just deleting every one of their structures to force it to reset the ownership.

Tested with and without all the mods in here, even when by itself I have these issues.
I an sorry that the mod caused so much grief and off hand I do not have a good answer as to why that is happening in your game.

This is my current enabled mod list:
Spoiler
  "yunrutechmining",
  "$$$_lightshow",
  "pantera_ANewLevel25",
  "all_the_domain_drones+NewDrones",
  "Angry Periphery",
  "anotherportraitpack",
  "apex_design",
  "armaa",
  "lw_autosave",
  "battletechportraitpack",
  "timid_admins",
  "beyondthesector",
  "BSC",
  "HMI_brighton",
  "ORK",
  "CaptainsLog",
  "CFT",
  "CJHM",
  "Csp",
  "chatter",
  "timid_commissioned_hull_mods",
  "lw_console",
  "istl_dassaultmikoyan",
  "hm_flagpack",
  "diableavionics",
  "Diktat Enhancement",
  "edshipyard",
  "seven_nexus",
  "Everybody loves KoC",
  "XLU",
  "FPE",
  "fluffships",
  "sun_fuel_siphoning",
  "GrandColonies",
  "GMDA",
  "HMI_SV",
  "HMI",
  "gunnyhegexpeditionary",
  "hte",
  "HIVER",
  "IndEvo",
  "interestingportraitspack",
  "internalaffairs",
  "Imperium",
  "timid_xiv",
  "JYD",
  "kadur_remnant",
  "keruvim_shipyards",
  "LTA",
  "lw_lazylib",
  "ArkLeg",
  "lights_out",
  "luddenhance",
  "exshippack",
  "mag_protect",
  "MagicLib",
  "Mayasuran Navy",
  "missingships",
  "ness_saw",
  "wisp_NeutrinoDetectorMkII",
  "sun_new_beginnings",
  "nexerelin",
  "objects_analysis",
  "ObviousNeutron",
  "OcuA",
  "Ocutek",
  "luddandlions",
  "JYDR",
  "oas",
  "ORA",
  "wisp_perseanchronicles",
  "QualityCaptains",
  "rotcesrats",
  "sun_ruthless_sector",
  "tahlan_scalartech",
  "SCY",
  "secretsofthefrontier",
  "shadow_ships",
  "swp",
  "spacetruckin",
  "speedUp",
  "sun_starship_legends",
  "stelnet",
  "StopGapMeasures3",
  "superweapons",
  "timid_supply_forging",
  "surveycorpssp",
  "symmetricalships",
  "tahlan",
  "presmattdamon_takenoprisoners",
  "Terraforming & Station Construction",
  "exalted",
  "star_federation",
  "TORCHSHIPS",
  "transpoffder",
  "underworld",
  "US",
  "URW",
  "vic",
  "vayrasector",
  "vayrashippack",
  "whichmod",
  "XhanEmpire",
  "prv",
  "shaderLib"
[close]
Even though I have 105 enabled vs your 62, it seems you have the following that I do not:
"PAGSM", "yunruindustries", "diyplanets", "exoticatechnologies", "gundam_uc", "kyeltziv", "officerExtension", "pn", "Polaris_Prime", "progressiveSMods", "Seafood", "shadow_ships", "mayu_specialupgrades", "sw",  "swf", "alcoholism", "uaf", (all the yunru mods), and lastly "mir_np".

Most of these I recognize but some of them I do not and will need to take some time to see what they do. I know my mods have had issues with yunru's in the past which is why I disabled them but that was some time back and I never got around to re-enabling them so it may lay in there. Either way I'll do my best to go though the difference and try and help figure this out. I'll get back to you when I am done if I find anything.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Myraid on February 07, 2023, 12:11:36 PM
Even though I have 105 enabled vs your 62, it seems you have the following that I do not:
"PAGSM", "yunruindustries", "diyplanets", "exoticatechnologies", "gundam_uc", "kyeltziv", "officerExtension", "pn", "Polaris_Prime", "progressiveSMods", "Seafood", "shadow_ships", "mayu_specialupgrades", "sw",  "swf", "alcoholism", "uaf", (all the yunru mods), and lastly "mir_np".

Most of these I recognize but some of them I do not and will need to take some time to see what they do. I know my mods have had issues with yunru's in the past which is why I disabled them but that was some time back and I never got around to re-enabling them so it may lay in there. Either way I'll do my best to go though the difference and try and help figure this out. I'll get back to you when I am done if I find anything.

Exotica (Exotica Technologies), Gundam (Gundam-UC), Kyeltziv (Kyeltziv Technocracy), PAGSM (Phillip Andrada: Gas Station Manager), PN (P9 Colony Group), Polaris Prime, SW and SWF (StarWars 2020/Starfighter Project), UAF (United Aurora Federation) are all Faction Mods and to my knowledge don't introduce much. The Gundam and Star Wars mod does introduce several new space stations but they aren't being used by the Hivers.

Alcoholism just adds alcohol brewing, I added it on recommendation as it has inter-mod compatibility between the UAF, PAGSM, Imperium and several other mod factions as a way to increase reputation with NPCs. Doesn't touch anything military related.

DIY Planets is expanded terraforming, I know there is a minor incompatibility with Nexerin iirc between the two on one of the structures but I have it disabled.

Mayu Special Upgrades is Special Hullmod Upgrades. It does add a very large amount of extra Hull Mods, most of them are offensive or bonuses to ship industry. To my knowledge, it shouldn't have any Defensive hull mods in it.

MIR_NP is Modified Industry Requirements - No Pollution and touches industry buildings only and their conditions. It's probably the most inconsequential one as it only alters the requirements for adding industry boosters.

Officer Extension to my knowledge does not alter anything other than how you manage, hire, and promote your officers. There's no modification to Captain skills. Only Quality Captains would do so, which I have set to Vanilla settings but even that does alter some things. It's the newest one to my roster.

Progressive S-Mods might be the culprit, it does modify Hull Mods, not sure if somehow it's allowing Hull Mods onto stations since I do know there could be a theoretical broken combination of HullMods that could make it onto a station that give unnaturally high resistance to shields and armor values on top of high regeneration from Imperium.

I just tested the space stations you mentioned and in the ship builder battles they don't seem to have the invulnerable shields, granted there's no captain skills or AI modifications to them so I think it might be stemming from one of those at this point, not sure which.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Dazs on February 07, 2023, 12:19:10 PM
re:Myraid

Wow thank you for the breakdown, you've saved me quite some investigation time and I truly appreciate it. I'll focus on Progressive S-Mods first then based on your assessment. I *should* have time this evening to look into this and you have helped quite a bit, thank you again!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Dazs on February 07, 2023, 03:18:10 PM
Myraid,

I went through each mod and ruled out many of them since they do not effect ship or colony behavior. The Progressive S-Mods author has stated several times in the forum thread that the mod does not effect NPCs so I do not think it is coming from there. It is not from Special Upgrades since the upgrades need to be bought in a bar event. I thought maybe DIY Planets was a culprit since it hasn't been updated to the current version of the game but I saw no conflicts there.

I believe the issue you are facing is due to Exotica Technologies being able to buff AI NPC fleets. Hiver worlds are constantly being invaded by NPC factions including the Remnant and their stations and ships see a lot of combat. My best guess is that the stations are given these modifications over time as they are in combat and you are facing some super Exotica buffed ships and stations by the time you get around to fighting them.

Also, I think the reason you are not seeing this effect on other NPC planets is because their stations see no where near the combat Hiver planets do since the entire sector is gunning for them. (In my current game XLU just took one of their planets and that was a first for me - go blue!)

I wish I could give you an exact answer but that is my best educated guess. I hope it helps.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Myraid on February 07, 2023, 04:54:35 PM
I believe the issue you are facing is due to Exotica Technologies being able to buff AI NPC fleets. Hiver worlds are constantly being invaded by NPC factions including the Remnant and their stations and ships see a lot of combat. My best guess is that the stations are given these modifications over time as they are in combat and you are facing some super Exotica buffed ships and stations by the time you get around to fighting them.

Also, I think the reason you are not seeing this effect on other NPC planets is because their stations see no where near the combat Hiver planets do since the entire sector is gunning for them. (In my current game XLU just took one of their planets and that was a first for me - go blue!)

I wish I could give you an exact answer but that is my best educated guess. I hope it helps.

I did a clean install of Starsector to help narrow it down without Exotica and I can confirm that this was the case. Not sure why it is causing issues of all things, but this seems to have fixed it. Very weird...

Thanks again for the help.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Dazs on February 07, 2023, 05:50:32 PM
I did a clean install of Starsector to help narrow it down without Exotica and I can confirm that this was the case. Not sure why it is causing issues of all things, but this seems to have fixed it. Very weird...

Thanks again for the help.
Oh good, I am glad we figured it out. It also helps if someone else is having the same issue now I have an answer for them. Still working on the economy thing, hopefully I'll get an answer from Jaghaimo soon.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: vjhc on February 08, 2023, 05:19:13 PM
Playing with this mod I find out that after I research blueprint for weapons and ships I can't produce weapons but ships can, is this intended, or do I need to do something else to produce them?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Bobwolf on February 08, 2023, 06:16:27 PM
Is it normal that some of the Bio weapon  sell for 25k and more ?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Dazs on February 08, 2023, 06:46:49 PM
Playing with this mod I find out that after I research blueprint for weapons and ships I can't produce weapons but ships can, is this intended, or do I need to do something else to produce them?
I am not sure why that would be the case. I have no restriction put in on making them if you have the learned BP. I'll check on my end tomorrow and see if it happens to me.
Is it normal that some of the Bio weapon  sell for 25k and more ?
I had set their weapons at such a high price initially as a way to offset people's fleet losses fighting them. It was pointed out to me that they are still too high so in the upcoming patch I lowered them. Just waiting to see if there is a way to omit Hiver from the market on Stelnet but it looks like the mod author has been MIA awhile. I'm still looking for a way to do it but if I can't figure it out by Friday, I'll just release what I do have done.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Bobwolf on February 09, 2023, 03:11:59 AM
I'll just avoid taking the weapons after the battle.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Dazs on February 09, 2023, 05:51:12 AM
Playing with this mod I find out that after I research blueprint for weapons and ships I can't produce weapons but ships can, is this intended, or do I need to do something else to produce them?
I figured out what I did or I should say forgot to do. I originally had their assets unrecoverable since their technology is alien. Since then I had several requests to make them recoverable and that is the default with unrecoverable being an optional file. When I made that change I forgot to remove their weapons from the Industrial Evolution blacklist which will be fixed in the upcoming update. If you would like to do it yourself in the mean time then navigate to Hiver Swarm 1.03\data\indEvo\custom_order_blacklist.csv now open the file and remove the word HIVER from the first column line 11. Or just wait till Friday :)
I'll just avoid taking the weapons after the battle.
Fair enough. I try my best to accommodate all playstyles with this mod and there is an optional file in the RAR that makes their weapons unrecoverable. You can enable that (instructions on the forum OP) and it would be less bother. FYI: Friday I will be releasing an update that lowers the current prices if that helps.

@To anyone reading this: I have tried several ways to get the Stelnet blacklist to work for Hiver commodities. I'll keep plugging away at it but I am at a loss at this point so if you know a way please let me know.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: vjhc on February 09, 2023, 07:29:56 AM
I figured out what I did or I should say forgot to do. I originally had their assets unrecoverable since their technology is alien. Since then I had several requests to make them recoverable and that is the default with unrecoverable being an optional file. When I made that change I forgot to remove their weapons from the Industrial Evolution blacklist which will be fixed in the upcoming update. If you would like to do it yourself in the mean time then navigate to Hiver Swarm 1.03\data\indEvo\custom_order_blacklist.csv now open the file and remove the word HIVER from the first column line 11. Or just wait till Friday :)

Great to hear that and thanks for replying, I guess j would wait, cause I don't like to mess with code, and another question, do i need to start a new game or it would be ok with existing save?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Dazs on February 09, 2023, 07:56:54 AM
Great to hear that and thanks for replying, I guess j would wait, cause I don't like to mess with code, and another question, do i need to start a new game or it would be ok with existing save?
Depending on how the economy changes turn out it may not be but as it stands with the current changes, the update is save compatible. I'll know more tomorrow and will state if it requires a new game.

Also if anyone has any suggestions or ideas to be implemented into the mod, I have a big ole block of time dedicated to Hiver tomorrow so get it in now! :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Bobwolf on February 09, 2023, 01:20:38 PM
I think the player should not be able to loot ship/weapons from the hiver swarm. Maybe the hiver's fleet could drop something else like metal and fuel base on the size of the fleet.

Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.03 - Graphic Overhaul edition 1/09/22
Post by: Dazs on February 09, 2023, 01:35:28 PM
I think the player should not be able to loot ship/weapons from the hiver swarm. Maybe the hiver's fleet could drop something else like metal and fuel base on the size of the fleet.
Hello there thank you for the input. I do have optional files in the RAR that make their ships and/or weapons unrecoverable as well as the BP for them. The instructions on how to enable them are on the forum OP. I could think up a custom commodity for them but there would be no guarantee their ships would carry it. It is food for thought though, thank you for the idea.

Now that I think about it, I'll add a README in the RAR with the instructions for the upcoming update.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.04 - 02/10/23
Post by: Dazs on February 10, 2023, 06:34:47 PM
v1.04 released today - 1.03 save game compatible

Some cost adjustments, feature editing and added a README to the RAR that has instructions on how to activate the various optional features of the mod. Changelog in the RAR and on the forum OP has the details.

My apologies to the players who asked for Hiver commodities to be omitted from Stelnet. I spent hours on the issue and asked in several locations but to no avail. Still on the to-do list, I'll figure it out eventually(tm).
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.04 - 02/10/23
Post by: Volsungare on February 11, 2023, 03:13:25 PM
Nice! Is this save compatible if I upgrade?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.04 - 02/10/23
Post by: Dazs on February 11, 2023, 05:27:24 PM
Nice! Is this save compatible if I upgrade?
Hello there - Yes it is fully compatible with a 1.03 (previous version) save and can be installed with a save going as far back as version .90 though some features would be omitted if you go that far back. Enjoy!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.04 - 02/10/23
Post by: Volsungare on February 12, 2023, 11:59:48 AM
Excellent, thank you!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.04 - 02/10/23
Post by: vjhc on February 13, 2023, 10:57:28 AM
v1.04 released today - 1.03 save game compatible
Hello again,
strated new campaign with 1.04 find that blacklist file, but still can't research blueprints for their weapons, any suggestions why? Maybe another mod from my mod pack cause this?
Oh, and blueprints saying that I already researched them (I'm not) but without list of weapons
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.04 - 02/10/23
Post by: vjhc on February 13, 2023, 11:17:24 AM
Oh, and blueprints saying that I already researched them (I'm not) but without list of weapons
Found file called special_items.csv
Guess something wrong there, but really don't know what
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.04 - 02/10/23
Post by: vjhc on February 13, 2023, 11:29:13 AM
Found file called special_items.csv
Guess something wrong there, but really don't know what
Guess something wrong in plugin params, because in 2 to 5 row, they are different, but for all weapons it is the same
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.04 - 02/10/23
Post by: Dazs on February 13, 2023, 11:59:14 AM
Found file called special_items.csv
Guess something wrong there, but really don't know what
Guess something wrong in plugin params, because in 2 to 5 row, they are different, but for all weapons it is the same
Thank you for taking the time to investigate, it helped me easily diagnose what the issue is. In 1.03 I changed the filing system for their weapon bps from small medium and large to missile, pulse, plasma and beam to make their full weapon lineup harder to obtain. Thing is I changed it in two of the three areas but not special_items.csv - a forest for the trees error that sometimes crops up being a solo mod dev.

I'll have a hotfix up tonight that fixes that along with a couple minor things I also noticed. Won't be groundbreaking or anything just little touchups like that. I truly appreciate you taking the time to not only report the issue but also spend time trying to figure it out, you are awesome thank you!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.04a - Fixing the oopsies - 02/13/23
Post by: Dazs on February 13, 2023, 05:13:07 PM
v1.04a released - Just a quick oopsie hotfix - v1.04 save game compatible

Cleaned up some little nitpicks and fixed an issue with the weapon BPs that vjhc was good enough to help me diagnose. Changelog in the RAR and on the forum OP has the details. Enjoy!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.04a - Fixing the oopsies - 02/13/23
Post by: nooder on February 15, 2023, 07:26:27 AM
hey man great mod im enjoying it so far  :) i have a suggestion tho how about adding rare hull mod drop from hivers something like bio hull regen type of thing or bio ammo replicator ? bio ammo loader ? bio cloak ? type of stuff to give u few ideas it would make hunting them more fun too :D
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.04a - Fixing the oopsies - 02/13/23
Post by: Dazs on February 15, 2023, 08:51:53 AM
hey man great mod im enjoying it so far  :) i have a suggestion tho how about adding rare hull mod drop from hivers something like bio hull regen type of thing or bio ammo replicator ? bio ammo loader ? bio cloak ? type of stuff to give u few ideas it would make hunting them more fun too :D
Thank you so much for the kind words, I am glad to hear you are enjoying the mod. I had tinkered with the idea you propose as it had been suggested by other players. I do want to keep the regen hull mod Hiver specific. It is their biggest strength when it comes to their hit and run tactics and it is due to their organic hull technology which lore wise would not work on Corvus ships.

Now as to the others I can see it but it would have to be a drop when you kill them and not installed on their ships since that would tip their balance too much. I am unsure how to make a Hull Mod specific to only loot drops after a battle with them w/out it being part of loot for say a research station.

You've given me some interesting things to look into and I appreciate you taking the time to share your ideas. I am currently working on a significant CFT update and an issue was just brought to my attention with a CJHM hull mod that I need to put out a hotfix for BUT I will add this to the HIVER to-to list and see what I can come up with :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.04a - Fixing the oopsies - 02/13/23
Post by: herkul121 on February 16, 2023, 01:16:47 PM
I'm the only one that can't see any ships when I start game as Hivers? I did follow all instructions as intended and still no use, then I did to set them in markets my self with no avail. I didn't head this problem with V1.01 of this mod. There just isn't any ships on market as I did see in Ship.data that ship cost min 4 and max 6 cash? I would love if mod dev solved this problem and repost mod. Or give instructions how to fix it or just make 2 separate downloads? I really love this mod I even still have V0.97 Those ships were just OP back then.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.04a - Fixing the oopsies - 02/13/23
Post by: Dazs on February 16, 2023, 02:16:50 PM
I'm the only one that can't see any ships when I start game as Hivers? I did follow all instructions as intended and still no use, then I did to set them in markets my self with no avail. I didn't head this problem with V1.01 of this mod. There just isn't any ships on market as I did see in Ship.data that ship cost min 4 and max 6 cash? I would love if mod dev solved this problem and repost mod. Or give instructions how to fix it or just make 2 separate downloads? I really love this mod I even still have V0.97 Those ships were just OP back then.
I think I understand your issue and apologize. If my understanding is correct then that it is an error on my end. Correct me if I am wrong: You followed the instructions to make them playable and you are playing as a Hiver. I think your concern is that you can no longer buy their ships at Hiver markets. IF that is the case that I believe the issue is that when I put in the block to not have them show up on the black market or Arms Dealer. Since you are are already comfortable opening ship.data then you can fix this yourself instead of waiting for me to put in a fix.

First make a backup on ship_data.csv in a separate folder as a failsafe. Then open the file and navigate to column AV which is labeled "tags" look for the lines: no_dealer, no_sell and delete them for every ship you would like to be sold and save. The same would be for weapons so go to data\weapons\weapon_data.csv and following the above instructions, navigate to column AI "tags" and do the same. Run the game and if it fixes the problem you can either keep or delete your backup files. If it does does not work then just reenable your backup files. Either way please let me know if I have correctly addressed your concern and if my solution works.

I hope that helps and I thank you for taking the time to being this to my attention. Sorry for not considering this scenario when I made the change and I'll try to have a fix in soon.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.04a - Fixing the oopsies - 02/13/23
Post by: herkul121 on February 16, 2023, 06:42:01 PM
I'm the only one that can't see any ships when I start game as Hivers? I did follow all instructions as intended and still no use, then I did to set them in markets my self with no avail. I didn't head this problem with V1.01 of this mod. There just isn't any ships on market as I did see in Ship.data that ship cost min 4 and max 6 cash? I would love if mod dev solved this problem and repost mod. Or give instructions how to fix it or just make 2 separate downloads? I really love this mod I even still have V0.97 Those ships were just OP back then.
I think I understand your issue and apologize. If my understanding is correct then that it is an error on my end. Correct me if I am wrong: You followed the instructions to make them playable and you are playing as a Hiver. I think your concern is that you can no longer buy their ships at Hiver markets. IF that is the case that I believe the issue is that when I put in the block to not have them show up on the black market or Arms Dealer. Since you are are already comfortable opening ship.data then you can fix this yourself instead of waiting for me to put in a fix.

First make a backup on ship_data.csv in a separate folder as a failsafe. Then open the file and navigate to column AV which is labeled "tags" look for the lines: no_dealer, no_sell and delete them for every ship you would like to be sold and save. The same would be for weapons so go to data\weapons\weapon_data.csv and following the above instructions, navigate to column AI "tags" and do the same. Run the game and if it fixes the problem you can either keep or delete your backup files. If it does does not work then just reenable your backup files. Either way please let me know if I have correctly addressed your concern and if my solution works.

I hope that helps and I thank you for taking the time to being this to my attention. Sorry for not considering this scenario when I made the change and I'll try to have a fix in soon.
You got it correct I play with Hivers in game all the time. I was planning to start new game as Hivers with new update v1.04a follow all instructions as file say with no avail. Can You duple check just in case? Sorry about my grammar its my 3rd lang, I would fix it my self gowever all the ships maxprice and minprice are 6 and 4 credits even in rar I did just download. I know how to do it but I don't know the right price of things I know I won't do economy any justice like that.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.04b - 02/17/23
Post by: Dazs on February 17, 2023, 12:28:07 AM
@herkul121 - released a quick update that addresses your issue.

I am still working on a request from OmegaEntertainment to add them as a faction mid-save and not need a new game to activate them. Wanted to let you know that I am still looking into it but I felt I should get this patch out ASAP to fix yet another bonehead oopsie of mine. I'm holding off on a discord release until I can bundle that in.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.04b - 02/17/23
Post by: Paragon Bane on February 19, 2023, 11:46:20 PM
Calopteryx is a medium carrier yet requiring 58 DP to deploy?
Is this intended or error?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.04b - 02/17/23
Post by: Dazs on February 20, 2023, 01:23:32 AM
Calopteryx is a medium carrier yet requiring 58 DP to deploy?
Is this intended or error?
Hello there thank you for the notice. Nope that is a fat finger oversight on my part, it is supposed to be 38 which is just below their battle carrier as it is a cruiser sized ship. I'll give it a fix for the next update sorry about that. Guess I should look over all of them for any other oopsies. I am almost done a CJHM update which I want to bang out today but I should be done going over HIVER stats and have a hotfix no later than tomorrow.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.04b - 02/17/23
Post by: st0mpa on February 22, 2023, 05:32:42 PM
I am loving this mod but have noticed an issue with the phase ships, and it not counting as a phase ship for the purposes of reducing your fleets sensor profile. I am running with the purchaseable ship data just incase thats causing the problem.

There is also a typo with the "Eyes" class ship where the tooltip says "The Eyes is the Hiver's only phase capital ship and is as deadly as it is distracting." The problem is that the "Eyes" is a cruiser not a capital ship.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.04b - 02/17/23
Post by: Dazs on February 22, 2023, 06:37:28 PM
I am loving this mod but have noticed an issue with the phase ships, and it not counting as a phase ship for the purposes of reducing your fleets sensor profile. I am running with the purchaseable ship data just incase thats causing the problem.
Well that is so nice to hear, I am glad you are having fun with it! - I'll look into the phase concern, no idea atm why that would happen.
There is also a typo with the "Eyes" class ship where the tooltip says "The Eyes is the Hiver's only phase capital ship and is as deadly as it is distracting." The problem is that the "Eyes" is a cruiser not a capital ship.
Good catch on the eyes, it was originally a capital ship but with the graphics and balance pass I downgraded it but did not note the description.

I am concurrently working on a CFT, JYD and Hiver updates atm (had a lot of requests come in at once) but I'll add this so the HIVER to-do and hopefully have an update out by the weekend. Thank you for the comments, they help me alot.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.04b - 02/17/23
Post by: st0mpa on February 23, 2023, 01:25:59 AM
OK so I went looking for what might cause it and I think I have found it. The modded phase ships have the phase cloaks that define a phase ship in combat but they are missing the Phase field hull mod which is the thing that reduces a fleets sensor profile.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.04b - 02/17/23
Post by: Dazs on February 23, 2023, 02:35:49 AM
OK so I went looking for what might cause it and I think I have found it. The modded phase ships have the phase cloaks that define a phase ship in combat but they are missing the Phase field hull mod which is the thing that reduces a fleets sensor profile.
I sort of did that on purpose since I figured they aren't exactly sneaky sneaks :) When I made those ships I had them strictly AI controlled and it was not until several requests later that I added the option to make them playable. Thank you for saving me the investigation time and looking into it on your own. I'll add it to the to-do list and make the change for the next update.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.05 - 03/02/23
Post by: Dazs on March 02, 2023, 03:18:43 PM
v1.05 released today - v1.04b save game compatible

Some player suggested tweaks, a couple error corrections and two new player requested phase ships, a frigate and a capital, that will offer a phase ship of each class. Also added a direct download link to the forum main page so no more google re-direct - Ty Timid for showing me how!

The update was a group effort and I am thankful for the Star Sector community being so helpful. The thank yous and all the details can be found in the changelog on the forum OP and in the RAR.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.05 - 03/02/23
Post by: Chazn2 on March 04, 2023, 01:40:08 PM
If you start with a very small fleet, their expansion can be a bit aggressive. If there is a way to delay their appearance or slow them down a bit initially, that would improve this mod quite a bit (in my opinion)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.05 - 03/02/23
Post by: Dazs on March 04, 2023, 02:07:12 PM
If you start with a very small fleet, their expansion can be a bit aggressive. If there is a way to delay their appearance or slow them down a bit initially, that would improve this mod quite a bit (in my opinion)
Hmm I am unsure tbh, they are meant to be played with several mod factions in game to keep them busy while the player builds up so I would not want to delay it too long. Best I can say at this stage is I'll look into it tomorrow when I have some time. I know there is a built in delay as a part of Nex's code that was put in a couple patches back that delayed the start of all invasions so I'll start with that and see.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.05 - 03/02/23
Post by: mllhild on March 05, 2023, 03:13:33 AM
Hi, so I was testing your Hivers mod and ran into a few problems which I dont know if they where intended or bugs:

1. Saturation Bombardment turns the DuskSeekers hostile (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15820.0 (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15820.0)), all other factions I had installed were fine with it
2. Hiver mining fleets have Vanilla ships in them
3. Hivers are giving me quests for exploration an surveying things, so they come accross as just one more faction instead of an actual thread
4. Their loot incluedes their weapons that have an insane damage to flux ratio for energy weapons (0.3 flux/damage, to 1.x flux/damage on usual mod factions), that kinda leads to the player getting very strong once he starts to fight the hivers
5. I can loot their ships by default, which again makes the player powerspike quite hard

I havent tried watching their expansion rate since that would take a lot of time, but the only dangerous ships are their fighters. So when I send in 7 Timeless Motherships Retrofits from Thalan Shipworks they cleaned up all Hiver systems pretty quickly, so I guess they seem balanced for a mod faction that is supposed to be a thread?

Overall feels like a nice mod.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.05 - 03/02/23
Post by: Dazs on March 05, 2023, 04:13:44 AM
Hi, so I was testing your Hivers mod and ran into a few problems which I dont know if they where intended or bugs:
Good morning, thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. I will address them one at a time but first a second cup of coffee I think :)
1. Saturation Bombardment turns the DuskSeekers hostile (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15820.0 (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15820.0)), all other factions I had installed were fine with it
Secrets of the Frontier is a must have in my gameplay so I am familiar with the Dust Keepers. They are set as a "good" morality faction and care quite a bit about atrocities committed against any faction. Inventor Racoon even put a note in their code ( "caresAboutAtrocities":true, # kind of their whole job )
Saturation Bombardment is considered an atrocity and they as well as any faction with a "good" mortality (not many are) combined with the above true flag with take a dim view on anyone who does it.
2. Hiver mining fleets have Vanilla ships in them
I do have it in the first page description of the faction that they do use captured Corvus sector ships. Now as to the code reason, Nex will assign ships to any faction for a mining fleet and will first pull from a factions list of mining ships. Thing is, I never set them up with mining ships or mining weapons. Now that you point it out though it does seem like a bit of an oversight on my part. I'll give some of their ships mining stats and assign them to be used in mining fleets in the next update to address this, thank you.
3. Hivers are giving me quests for exploration an surveying things, so they come accross as just one more faction instead of an actual thread
I've looked into that in the past but there is not much I can do about that I am afraid. I have to set them up as a "playable" faction in order for them to colonize and invade. I would essentially have to re-write the NEX code to a custom version and well I am no where near as skilled as Histidine. It bothers me as well so if anyone reading this knows of an easier way that I have overlooked, please share.
4. Their loot incluedes their weapons that have an insane damage to flux ratio for energy weapons (0.3 flux/damage, to 1.x flux/damage on usual mod factions), that kinda leads to the player getting very strong once he starts to fight the hivers
Well that is a matter of player choice. I find that some want that OP feeling and others not so much so I have an optional file that a player can enable to have HIVER weapons not drop or be available for sale anywhere. The instructions on how to enable that is on the forum OP and in a README file in the mod's RAR.
5. I can loot their ships by default, which again makes the player powerspike quite hard
See above regarding weapons, I also have an option to make their ships unrecoverable for the same reasons.
I havent tried watching their expansion rate since that would take a lot of time, but the only dangerous ships are their fighters. So when I send in 7 Timeless Motherships Retrofits from Thalan Shipworks they cleaned up all Hiver systems pretty quickly, so I guess they seem balanced for a mod faction that is supposed to be a thread?
I have their power level set to fend off invasions and to eventually take over a vanilla sector. If you have faction mods installed (highly recommended) it will slow down their expansion or even stop it if you use one of the more OP factions like UAF. Now to your second point, Timeless is one of the most powerful ships in a modded starsector playthrough. You are essentially pitting a boss fleet of ships vs a boss faction. For me to tune them to survive against that level of threat would make anyone not using such a fleet near impossible to take them on.
Overall feels like a nice mod.
Thank you for the nice comment I appreciate it.

I do hope I have addressed your points accurately. If I misunderstood a point or you have further insights please let me know. I am pretty much a one man show and having player input is essential to making my mods the best they can be.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.05 - 03/02/23
Post by: Chazn2 on March 05, 2023, 07:07:23 AM
Re: 3

Could always ask Histidine if they could add such a thing, or if they could point you toward how to do it?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.05 - 03/02/23
Post by: mllhild on March 05, 2023, 07:08:18 AM
1. Saturation Bombardment turns the DuskSeekers hostile (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15820.0 (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15820.0)), all other factions I had installed were fine with it
Secrets of the Frontier is a must have in my gameplay so I am familiar with the Dust Keepers. They are set as a "good" morality faction and care quite a bit about atrocities committed against any faction. Inventor Racoon even put a note in their code ( "caresAboutAtrocities":true, # kind of their whole job )
Saturation Bombardment is considered an atrocity and they as well as any faction with a "good" mortality (not many are) combined with the above true flag with take a dim view on anyone who does it.
"caresAboutAtrocities":true is true for almost any faction, but they all where fine with me saturation bombing the Hivers, since they all start out hostile to the Hivers, even the UAF was fine with it.

What I think is happening is that since DustKeepers isnt a listed Faction for the player, when the Hiver mod sets all factions to be hostile to the Hivers, it does skip the DustKeepers.



3. Hivers are giving me quests for exploration an surveying things, so they come accross as just one more faction instead of an actual thread
I've looked into that in the past but there is not much I can do about that I am afraid. I have to set them up as a "playable" faction in order for them to colonize and invade. I would essentially have to re-write the NEX code to a custom version and well I am no where near as skilled as Histidine. It bothers me as well so if anyone reading this knows of an easier way that I have overlooked, please share.
No idea, I just now asked Histidine since I was already perstering him about capping the exp generated from colony income, lets see what he responds.



4. Their loot incluedes their weapons that have an insane damage to flux ratio for energy weapons (0.3 flux/damage, to 1.x flux/damage on usual mod factions), that kinda leads to the player getting very strong once he starts to fight the hivers
Well that is a matter of player choice. I find that some want that OP feeling and others not so much so I have an optional file that a player can enable to have HIVER weapons not drop or be available for sale anywhere. The instructions on how to enable that is on the forum OP and in a README file in the mod's RAR.
This is me being just noisy, but balancing the weapon to default mod flux/damage ratio and then giving the ships a hullmod that reduces weapon flux cost might be a better solution since it enables you and the player to use all weapons they want on the ships and not be stuck raiding the bugs system forever.

I havent tried watching their expansion rate since that would take a lot of time, but the only dangerous ships are their fighters. So when I send in 7 Timeless Motherships Retrofits from Thalan Shipworks they cleaned up all Hiver systems pretty quickly, so I guess they seem balanced for a mod faction that is supposed to be a thread?
I have their power level set to fend off invasions and to eventually take over a vanilla sector. If you have faction mods installed (highly recommended) it will slow down their expansion or even stop it if you use one of the more OP factions like UAF. Now to your second point, Timeless is one of the most powerful ships in a modded starsector playthrough. You are essentially pitting a boss fleet of ships vs a boss faction. For me to tune them to survive against that level of threat would make anyone not using such a fleet near impossible to take them on.

Yes 7 Timeless are strong, but will get destroyed by a tripple Grand Invasion fleet from Legio Infernalis, espicially since my test fleet had no officers. Also Timeless have a surpringly hard time vs Starfortresses. It just comes down to the fact that fittingly the main strength of the Hivers are small fast fighters and whoever can counter this kind of threat wins.
What Im trying to say is that they have no system defenses besides that Starfortress you parked cheekyly infront of the jump point, that looks nice, but doesnt actually work to prevent invasions. They are missing a home defense fleet like other factions have. I jumped into the systems and only ever ended up fighting one fleet at a time even though I went in a strait line for the planet. If its 7 Timeless or my current main campain of 1 Purycella, 2 Nexxy, 2 Reisein, 1 Isonoria, 1 Rillaru and another few ships, the result vs a single fleet will always be the same.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.05 - 03/02/23
Post by: Dazs on March 05, 2023, 08:06:13 AM
Re: 3

Could always ask Histidine if they could add such a thing, or if they could point you toward how to do it?
I already have and Histidine gave me permission to modify the code. I did try but it was above my skill level to integrate it into the mod. I may give it another go since that was some time ago but thank you for the suggestion.

"caresAboutAtrocities":true is true for almost any faction, but they all where fine with me saturation bombing the Hivers, since they all start out hostile to the Hivers, even the UAF was fine with it.

What I think is happening is that since DustKeepers isnt a listed Faction for the player, when the Hiver mod sets all factions to be hostile to the Hivers, it does skip the DustKeepers.
Well I do have code that sets any faction that approaches neutral to automatically reset it to vengeful which *should* be applicable to them. What I can try is to set the Dust Keepers faction ID in the HIVER config file to start off at vengeful and to go no higher than hostile. I'll add that to the mod for the next update as well.
No idea, I just now asked Histidine since I was already perstering him about capping the exp generated from colony income, lets see what he responds.
As I stated above I already asked and Histidine was very nice in replying but I was unable at the time to incorporate the suggestion. I'll see if there is a reply on the NEX forum from your query there.
This is me being just noisy, but balancing the weapon to default mod flux/damage ratio and then giving the ships a hullmod that reduces weapon flux cost might be a better solution since it enables you and the player to use all weapons they want on the ships and not be stuck raiding the bugs system forever.
Not noisy at all, it is not a bad suggestion and one I had considered. I essentially wound up stat bloating their assets as a way to increase their power level. If I made that kind of change I feel I would upset the players who want those OP assets. Having separate optional files seemed the best way to me to satisfy the broadest player base as I could.
Yes 7 Timeless are strong, but will get destroyed by a tripple Grand Invasion fleet from Legio Infernalis, espicially since my test fleet had no officers. Also Timeless have a surpringly hard time vs Starfortresses. It just comes down to the fact that fittingly the main strength of the Hivers are small fast fighters and whoever can counter this kind of threat wins.
Well Legio is tougher boss faction so it stands to reason their fleets would prevail. I did my best to balance the Hiver faction to be able to withstand multiple factions invading their systems but at the same time giving the player a chance to overcome them. I based this on the power level of the vanilla factions and the mod factions that were at slightly above vanilla. I would have to add an entirely new optional to have them be able to withstand factions like Legio or UAF. It is something to consider but that is a bunch of code swapping and would take me awhile. I need to think about this one some more but it is a good observation thank you.
What Im trying to say is that they have no system defenses besides that Starfortress you parked cheekyly infront of the jump point, that looks nice, but doesnt actually work to prevent invasions. They are missing a home defense fleet like other factions have. I jumped into the systems and only ever ended up fighting one fleet at a time even though I went in a strait line for the planet. If its 7 Timeless or my current main campain of 1 Purycella, 2 Nexxy, 2 Reisein, 1 Isonoria, 1 Rillaru and another few ships, the result vs a single fleet will always be the same.
That is odd, when I visit their systems there are several Hiver fleets roaming around. I usually have to kite them far out, go dark and sneak back in to invade. I used to Have more fleets roaming around but I received numerous concerns that it made their systems way too difficult. Perhaps I could do soemthing like Industrial Evolution's watchtowers but it's own thing. IDK if I can do that but it is good food for thought.

I appreciate the clarity and your reply gives me some interesting things to think about for the mod. At the end of the day though please keep in mind that I have them set as a mid-level threat. My intention was to give the player something to go against that was more powerful than pirates but not as powerful as Oodos fleets. Any changes or additions I make I generally try to stay within those guidelines.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.05 - 03/02/23
Post by: vjhc on March 08, 2023, 02:58:11 PM
Hello again,
so I again found bp from hive and it`s called HIVER Weapon BP, and there is nothing and it again says that I already knew it, so my guess is that weapons from it, you split throughout missle, pulse, plasma, and beam bp, and I guess that nothing left for this bp, or there only omni-something-something which so-called eyes.
Nothing seems to be different in special_items.csv so hoping for your reply.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.05 - 03/02/23
Post by: Dazs on March 08, 2023, 04:32:44 PM
Hello again,
so I again found bp from hive and it`s called HIVER Weapon BP, and there is nothing and it again says that I already knew it, so my guess is that weapons from it, you split throughout missle, pulse, plasma, and beam bp, and I guess that nothing left for this bp, or there only omni-something-something which so-called eyes.
Nothing seems to be different in special_items.csv so hoping for your reply.
Sorry about that, it is an oversight that I have fixed and pending in the upcoming update. Thank you for taking the time to report it and you are essentially correct in your analysis. When I split the weapons into different BP's as a way of making them less accessible, I neglected to delete the BP that contained them all. The reason it is nearly empty is because I had re-assigned the hiver weapons to their individual BP's so nothing is assigned to the former weapon BP with the exception of the eyes which I decided to not put on a BP at all since it is more a trophy item than a weapon. I have a couple other changes already made for 1.06 as well but I am still trying to figure two more changes, the ability to enable them mid save and to disable them from being the target of bar missions like trade.

I do not have an ETA on the release of 1.06 and I am working with some other coders for the potential solution to the above planned changes. At this stage they are both on the wish list with no final workable solutions. Since the BP issue was not a critical crash related one I figured I would bundle it with the other changes intended. In the mean time if you or anyone else has ideas/solutions/concerns/etc regarding Hiver Swarm that are inline with their theme then please let me know and I'll try and get them included into the update as well. 
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.05 - 03/02/23
Post by: Volsungare on March 09, 2023, 06:15:45 PM
I am having an issue with blueprint packages for Hiver (latest version) weapons and ships spawning even when I changed the files per the readme so they shouldn't spawn. Unfortunately did this after new sector generation (I had changed it, but I screwed up putting in the alternative ship skins, put in a new copy and forgot to change files again). I changed the files after coming across the first blueprint pack, but just found another. Is this something that will require a sector reroll?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.05 - 03/02/23
Post by: Dazs on March 10, 2023, 02:04:02 AM
I am having an issue with blueprint packages for Hiver (latest version) weapons and ships spawning even when I changed the files per the readme so they shouldn't spawn. Unfortunately did this after new sector generation (I had changed it, but I screwed up putting in the alternative ship skins, put in a new copy and forgot to change files again). I changed the files after coming across the first blueprint pack, but just found another. Is this something that will require a sector reroll?
Good morning. I am sorry to say that the blueprint alternate file only works on a new game. Once you generate the sector and there are already placed assets well the game says hey cool I'll just put these here and if you remove them the game wonders where they went and has a meltdown. I'll add that to the README and on the forum OP instructions. Sorry about the lack of clarity on that. :(
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.05 - 03/02/23
Post by: Volsungare on March 10, 2023, 06:31:38 PM
No worries, it was my fault for forgetting to re-disable them after repairing the mod. I have only lost 2-3 hours of play.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.05 - 03/02/23
Post by: Volsungare on March 10, 2023, 08:17:30 PM
So I made sure I have the do not spawn files in, when I look in the file they are marked as no drop, no sell, restricted/etc and started a new sector. But about the 8th planet I explore, I find a Hiver Weapon BP package. I am not sure what is going on here.

I am also a little confused as drop vs no drop have different blueprint setups. Drop has it broken out into three weapon blueprints, the no drop has all weapons in one blueprint.

Also the Xrrymm-type Hive,HIVER_mirv seems to be missing "missle8, strike2" in the no drop file, while it has them in the base file.

I have not compared the ships yet.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.05 - 03/02/23
Post by: Dazs on March 11, 2023, 12:32:11 AM
No worries, it was my fault for forgetting to re-disable them after repairing the mod. I have only lost 2-3 hours of play.
OK sorry about not being clear about that. FYI 1.06 is coming out later today and some of the changes require a new game to take effect so you may want to hold off on a new start.
So I made sure I have the do not spawn files in, when I look in the file they are marked as no drop, no sell, restricted/etc and started a new sector. But about the 8th planet I explore, I find a Hiver Weapon BP package. I am not sure what is going on here.
Yea a bonehead move on my part that is fixed in 1.06. Essentially I split their weapon BP into different packages as a way of making their weapons less accessible but I neglected to remove the call for the old BP.
I am also a little confused as drop vs no drop have different blueprint setups. Drop has it broken out into three weapon blueprints, the no drop has all weapons in one blueprint.
See above, similar issue just me being lazy. :) I figured if they were no drop then what does it matter. That is fixed in 1.06 as well.
Also the Xrrymm-type Hive,HIVER_mirv seems to be missing "missle8, strike2" in the no drop file, while it has them in the base file.
Good catch, most likely I oopsied and overwrote that when I added the no drop to that one. Sorry about that, I'll have that fixed as well in the next update.
I have not compared the ships yet.
I'd be interested in seeing your feedback. I plan to have the update out later today, just need to run a new game for a couple hours as a final test. So if you have any observations regarding oopsies/changes/updates before then, perhaps I can fit any into 1.06

Thank you for the update and your patience.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.06 - Cha-cha-cha-cha-changes!- 03/11/23
Post by: Dazs on March 11, 2023, 11:28:36 AM
V1.06 released today- v1.05 save game compatible but some changes (marked) require a new game to take effect so I highly recommend you read the changelog located in the RAR or on the forum OP.

Numerous fixes and changes to the mod (yea you really should read the changelog) but the two most requested changes I was finally able to make was that the commodities from the initial markets no longer show up on the Stellar Networks MOD commodity market and vanilla quests *should* no longer pick their initial planets for quest destinations -Thanks to Histidine, Alex, Dalton and Lukas04 for helping me figure it out and Madbadger2 for being a sounding board and keeping me sane while I did so. :)

I hope you enjoy the changes and keep those comments coming my way, it's a group effort making the mod the best it can be!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.05 - 03/02/23
Post by: Volsungare on March 11, 2023, 01:27:42 PM
No worries, it was my fault for forgetting to re-disable them after repairing the mod. I have only lost 2-3 hours of play.
OK sorry about not being clear about that. FYI 1.06 is coming out later today and some of the changes require a new game to take effect so you may want to hold off on a new start.
So I made sure I have the do not spawn files in, when I look in the file they are marked as no drop, no sell, restricted/etc and started a new sector. But about the 8th planet I explore, I find a Hiver Weapon BP package. I am not sure what is going on here.
Yea a bonehead move on my part that is fixed in 1.06. Essentially I split their weapon BP into different packages as a way of making their weapons less accessible but I neglected to remove the call for the old BP.
I am also a little confused as drop vs no drop have different blueprint setups. Drop has it broken out into three weapon blueprints, the no drop has all weapons in one blueprint.
See above, similar issue just me being lazy. :) I figured if they were no drop then what does it matter. That is fixed in 1.06 as well.
Also the Xrrymm-type Hive,HIVER_mirv seems to be missing "missle8, strike2" in the no drop file, while it has them in the base file.
Good catch, most likely I oopsied and overwrote that when I added the no drop to that one. Sorry about that, I'll have that fixed as well in the next update.
I have not compared the ships yet.
I'd be interested in seeing your feedback. I plan to have the update out later today, just need to run a new game for a couple hours as a final test. So if you have any observations regarding oopsies/changes/updates before then, perhaps I can fit any into 1.06

Thank you for the update and your patience.

Sorry, I was asleep when you responded.

I had a thought this morning regarding package drops. If the blueprint packages are still dropping even when no drop/sell etc is marked, could the fix be to remove the package name from the weapons/ship csv files? Using Xrrymm as an example:
Code
"missile8, strike2, hivermweapon_bp,no_drop, restricted, no_dealer, no_sell"
Would become:
Code
"missile8, strike2,,no_drop, restricted, no_dealer, no_sell"
Or would one just need to delete the "Hiver Swarm 1.06\data\campaign\special_items.csv"? I am not sure what controls the package drops. I am wondering if the no drop/sell setting marks it so no individual blueprints can be dropped, but the package still can.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.06 - Cha-cha-cha-cha-changes!- 03/11/23
Post by: Dazs on March 11, 2023, 01:32:07 PM
Hmm that is odd, I did not have that happen when I tested it but to be fair I did not play very long with it enabled. Were you using the new update 1.06 when it happened? According to the code that I used it *should* prevent that but I'll do some digging an check my information, lord knows it is scant :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.06 - Cha-cha-cha-cha-changes!- 03/11/23
Post by: Volsungare on March 11, 2023, 02:18:27 PM
Hmm that is odd, I did not have that happen when I tested it but to be fair I did not play very long with it enabled. Were you using the new update 1.06 when it happened? According to the code that I used it *should* prevent that but I'll do some digging an check my information, lord knows it is scant :)

No, I was waiting for your response before firing up. This was happening on 1.05. I will just throw together a quick sector and burn exploration for an hour or two (after a nap) via console commands for supplies/fuel/combat to see what happens with 1.06.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.06 - Cha-cha-cha-cha-changes!- 03/11/23
Post by: Dazs on March 11, 2023, 03:11:42 PM
Hmm that is odd, I did not have that happen when I tested it but to be fair I did not play very long with it enabled. Were you using the new update 1.06 when it happened? According to the code that I used it *should* prevent that but I'll do some digging an check my information, lord knows it is scant :)

No, I was waiting for your response before firing up. This was happening on 1.05. I will just throw together a quick sector and burn exploration for an hour or two (after a nap) via console commands for supplies/fuel/combat to see what happens with 1.06.
Ahh ok, thank you for the clarity. I took your earlier comments to heart and put in some fixes in 1.06. When you decide to update please let me know if any issues are still occurring.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.06 - Cha-cha-cha-cha-changes!- 03/11/23
Post by: Volsungare on March 11, 2023, 05:42:49 PM
Blueprint packages still drop in 1.06 with the unrecoverable settings used. I think to prevent them from dropping, the special_items.csv may need to be deleted/renamed and the bp callout in the hulls/weapons csv files removed, That way there are no blueprint packages to spawn, the game won't spawn empty packages, and the game won't be looking for packages that don't exist (I think that covers all bases for potential errors/issues instead of doing just one of those options?). I am going to give that a spin and see what happens.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.06 - Cha-cha-cha-cha-changes!- 03/11/23
Post by: Dazs on March 11, 2023, 05:46:01 PM
Blueprint packages still drop in 1.06 with the unrecoverable settings used. I think to prevent them from dropping, the special_items.csv may need to be deleted/renamed and the bp callout in the hulls/weapons csv files removed, That way there are no blueprint packages to spawn, the game won't spawn empty packages, and the game won't be looking for packages that don't exist (I think that covers all bases for potential errors/issues instead of doing just one of those options?). I am going to give that a spin and see what happens.
Good to know, I have not looked into it yet as I just got done a marathon session hiver update and need to rest my brain :) Nice of you to do the testing, please let me know if that works and I'll add it to the instructions.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.06 - Cha-cha-cha-cha-changes!- 03/11/23
Post by: Volsungare on March 12, 2023, 12:23:06 PM
Blueprint packages still drop in 1.06 with the unrecoverable settings used. I think to prevent them from dropping, the special_items.csv may need to be deleted/renamed and the bp callout in the hulls/weapons csv files removed, That way there are no blueprint packages to spawn, the game won't spawn empty packages, and the game won't be looking for packages that don't exist (I think that covers all bases for potential errors/issues instead of doing just one of those options?). I am going to give that a spin and see what happens.
Good to know, I have not looked into it yet as I just got done a marathon session hiver update and need to rest my brain :) Nice of you to do the testing, please let me know if that works and I'll add it to the instructions.

I buzzed around for a while and didn't see any Hiver blueprint packs drop after remove the tags from the ships/weapons csvs and renaming the special items csv. But it wasn't as thorough as I might have liked as I got involved in trying to figure out how to remove the notable ship tag from Tahlan's Tramtanzer >_>.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.06 - Cha-cha-cha-cha-changes!- 03/11/23
Post by: Dazs on March 12, 2023, 05:21:35 PM
I buzzed around for a while and didn't see any Hiver blueprint packs drop after remove the tags from the ships/weapons csvs and renaming the special items csv. But it wasn't as thorough as I might have liked as I got involved in trying to figure out how to remove the notable ship tag from Tahlan's Tramtanzer >_>.
Well that is the nuclear option for sure :) Thank you for the testing and input I've been a bit busy r/l to look into it yet but I do plan to and should have some time Monday.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.06 - Cha-cha-cha-cha-changes!- 03/11/23
Post by: Volsungare on March 12, 2023, 06:08:26 PM
I buzzed around for a while and didn't see any Hiver blueprint packs drop after remove the tags from the ships/weapons csvs and renaming the special items csv. But it wasn't as thorough as I might have liked as I got involved in trying to figure out how to remove the notable ship tag from Tahlan's Tramtanzer >_>.
Well that is the nuclear option for sure :) Thank you for the testing and input I've been a bit busy r/l to look into it yet but I do plan to and should have some time Monday.

Yeah it is a bit nuclear, but it was the safest option with the little i know about coding. Besides, all I do is (other than removing the bp package tag from the uncrecoverable files, is rename the special_items.csv to specialitems.csvold.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.06 - Cha-cha-cha-cha-changes!- 03/11/23
Post by: yajusenpai on March 13, 2023, 08:49:01 AM
Hiver phase ship are peak annoying.
They have phase that cost nothing to use, giant Flux so they can phase indefinitely.
Have ton of hull and armor so they can tank even if you deal some lucky hit.
Worst is they can regen their hull quicky so they never die.
Worst still are they are almost always piloted by officer.
More often then not I can only wait for their CR to run out in battle.
This annoyinginess pair with other ship that port heavy armor big hull invincible shield that also never die, are criminal.

Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.06 - Cha-cha-cha-cha-changes!- 03/11/23
Post by: Dazs on March 13, 2023, 11:14:08 AM
Yeah it is a bit nuclear, but it was the safest option with the little i know about coding. Besides, all I do is (other than removing the bp package tag from the uncrecoverable files, is rename the special_items.csv to specialitems.csvold.
I enabled the no-drop and have been playing for a couple hours and have not had a hiver BP drop yet. Of course that is my subjective experience and not a scientific method result so I'll ask around regarding the code I use and make sure I have it correct. I hesitate to go your route as that could cause complications and I want to make sure I am giving correct instructions before I add to the README.
Hiver phase ship are peak annoying.
They have phase that cost nothing to use, giant Flux so they can phase indefinitely.
Have ton of hull and armor so they can tank even if you deal some lucky hit.
Worst is they can regen their hull quicky so they never die.
Worst still are they are almost always piloted by officer.
More often then not I can only wait for their CR to run out in battle.
This annoyinginess pair with other ship that port heavy armor big hull invincible shield that also never die, are criminal.
Good afternoon, thank you for taking the time to give a detailed description, it really does help me. The phase ships were recently added at the request of a few players. Though I did test them, I am sure they could use a balance pass since I am not a fan of phase ships in general and do not use them personally. I'll check in with the people who requested them and do some testing for balance on my own.

Thank you both for the clarity and your patience while I figure this out. I was working on an update for one of my other mods but Hiver is now the priority. I cannot give an ETA at this stage since I will be awaiting feedback from others but I estimate no later than Friday I'll have a hotfix that address both of your concerns.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.07 - Dazs made a boo boo, sorry :( - 03/15/23
Post by: Dazs on March 15, 2023, 08:24:53 AM
v1.07 released today -Save game compatible but if you started a new game with 1.06 then a new 1.07 game is required if you want them to invade, sorry everyone for the hassle.

Essentially by taking them off the market in 1.06 it gutted their economy and their ability to afford and field large invasion fleets, I am so sorry for not testing for this. I spent so many hours trying to figure out how to fulfill the request to get them off Stelnet and was so happy when I finally did that it never occurred to me that this would be a side effect. There are other player requested changes that can be seen in the changelog located in the RAR and on the forum OP but that is the major one.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.07 - Dazs made a boo boo, sorry :( - 03/15/23
Post by: HopeFall on March 16, 2023, 03:19:11 AM
Ah.
***. I came to check if anyone was having some problems with the Hivers, since all three of their far reaching planets pinged as Deteriorating at the same time. Seems like I've got to start a new campaign all over again.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.07 - Dazs made a boo boo, sorry :( - 03/15/23
Post by: Dazs on March 16, 2023, 03:33:14 AM
Ah.
***. I came to check if anyone was having some problems with the Hivers, since all three of their far reaching planets pinged as Deteriorating at the same time. Seems like I've got to start a new campaign all over again.
Good morning again! I am glad I caught it before too much time had passed sorry about that. I do try to release save game compatible updates but when I break something so catastrophically well it sort of needed to be. I am glad to hear you are willing to start a new game and not just uninstall the mod though :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.07 - Dazs made a boo boo, sorry :( - 03/15/23
Post by: mllhild on March 16, 2023, 04:50:11 AM
v1.07 released today -Save game compatible but if you started a new game with 1.06 then a new 1.07 game is required if you want them to invade, sorry everyone for the hassle.

Essentially by taking them off the market in 1.06 it gutted their economy and their ability to afford and field large invasion fleets, I am so sorry for not testing for this. I spent so many hours trying to figure out how to fulfill the request to get them off Stelnet and was so happy when I finally did that it never occurred to me that this would be a side effect. There are other player requested changes that can be seen in the changelog located in the RAR and on the forum OP but that is the major one.

Nice, I just wanted to start a new game this weekend so lets see how the changed Hivers are now doing in a quite modded campaign.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.07 - Dazs made a boo boo, sorry :( - 03/15/23
Post by: Dazs on March 16, 2023, 05:06:23 AM
v1.07 released today -Save game compatible but if you started a new game with 1.06 then a new 1.07 game is required if you want them to invade, sorry everyone for the hassle.

Essentially by taking them off the market in 1.06 it gutted their economy and their ability to afford and field large invasion fleets, I am so sorry for not testing for this. I spent so many hours trying to figure out how to fulfill the request to get them off Stelnet and was so happy when I finally did that it never occurred to me that this would be a side effect. There are other player requested changes that can be seen in the changelog located in the RAR and on the forum OP but that is the major one.

Nice, I just wanted to start a new game this weekend so lets see how the changed Hivers are now doing in a quite modded campaign.
Nice! I am glad it worked out for someone at least :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.07 - Dazs made a boo boo, sorry :( - 03/15/23
Post by: Volsungare on March 16, 2023, 01:04:58 PM
v1.07 released today -Save game compatible but if you started a new game with 1.06 then a new 1.07 game is required if you want them to invade, sorry everyone for the hassle.

Essentially by taking them off the market in 1.06 it gutted their economy and their ability to afford and field large invasion fleets, I am so sorry for not testing for this. I spent so many hours trying to figure out how to fulfill the request to get them off Stelnet and was so happy when I finally did that it never occurred to me that this would be a side effect. There are other player requested changes that can be seen in the changelog located in the RAR and on the forum OP but that is the major one.

I may just let them die off then...I just scored some rare blueprints in exploration that I haven't seen in the past three games :S Alternatively, I now know where I am going to colonize  8)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.07 - Dazs made a boo boo, sorry :( - 03/15/23
Post by: HopeFall on March 16, 2023, 01:22:22 PM
If you get Unofficial New Game Plus, and edit it's settings, you can make a save point at any time. While this won't actually carry over ships/weapons, blueprint inheritance is one of its options.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.07 - Dazs made a boo boo, sorry :( - 03/15/23
Post by: Dazs on March 16, 2023, 03:39:35 PM
I may just let them die off then...I just scored some rare blueprints in exploration that I haven't seen in the past three games :S Alternatively, I now know where I am going to colonize  8)
Using v1.06 gives you three poorly defended very rich systems to set up a base of operations if you look at it that way. Always a silver lining. :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.07 - Dazs made a boo boo, sorry :( - 03/15/23
Post by: SchDerGrosse on March 18, 2023, 12:51:43 AM
I cannot really comment on the quality of the mod itself as I have just installed it.

One thing that came accross very annoying though. When pressing F1 on the cargo window, hiver colonies occupy at least half the screen as either having excess or demand regarding a certain goods. Makes trading very annoying. I am halfway tempted to just remove the mod.. : /

It would be a shame, as it looked quite promising.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.07 - Dazs made a boo boo, sorry :( - 03/15/23
Post by: Dazs on March 18, 2023, 01:20:01 AM
I cannot really comment on the quality of the mod itself as I have just installed it.

One thing that came accross very annoying though. When pressing F1 on the cargo window, hiver colonies occupy at least half the screen as either having excess or demand regarding a certain goods. Makes trading very annoying. I am halfway tempted to just remove the mod.. : /

It would be a shame, as it looked quite promising.
Good morning, thank you for taking the time to reach out. I am aware of the issue and have spent quite some time trying to not have them show on the commodity tab. I thought I had it in the previous patch but the "fix" gutted their internal economy because not only could the player see the commodities, the Hivers couldn't either. I have reached out to a couple scripters but I still have not found a way to do it w/out pulling their teeth.

I am sorry to hear that this is a game breaking issue for you but I totally get it and apologize. I have not given up on the idea and it is at the top of my Hiver to-do list but I cannot at this time give any ETA when/if I can have that issue addressed.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.07 - Dazs made a boo boo, sorry :( - 03/15/23
Post by: SchDerGrosse on March 18, 2023, 10:33:27 AM
I cannot really comment on the quality of the mod itself as I have just installed it.

One thing that came accross very annoying though. When pressing F1 on the cargo window, hiver colonies occupy at least half the screen as either having excess or demand regarding a certain goods. Makes trading very annoying. I am halfway tempted to just remove the mod.. : /

It would be a shame, as it looked quite promising.
Good morning, thank you for taking the time to reach out. I am aware of the issue and have spent quite some time trying to not have them show on the commodity tab. I thought I had it in the previous patch but the "fix" gutted their internal economy because not only could the player see the commodities, the Hivers couldn't either. I have reached out to a couple scripters but I still have not found a way to do it w/out pulling their teeth.

I am sorry to hear that this is a game breaking issue for you but I totally get it and apologize. I have not given up on the idea and it is at the top of my Hiver to-do list but I cannot at this time give any ETA when/if I can have that issue addressed.
Thanks for the quick reply.

I totally get why you had to include them in the global economy.

With regards to my problem, i wouldnt call it "game breaking" but it sure is annoying. Anyways, I'll keep an eye out on this mod as the concept is very cool.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.07 - Dazs made a boo boo, sorry :( - 03/15/23
Post by: mllhild on March 19, 2023, 12:24:03 AM
So test results until:
I let the Hivers happily grow until cycle 214.
Their they conquered 5 small planets sprayed over the core, but all size 4 or 5 worlds. --> seems ok in size for a mid game vs vanilla
Their fleets are ok to fight with regular capitalships and a nice amount of PD.

Annoyances:
- supertanker and superfreighter fleets cant be autoresolved which means boring fight vs cargoships and a lot of CR lost for nothing. Please make those cargoships have less FP or whatever the game uses for calculating if autoresolve is possible. (It wasnt that my fleet was small, it was almost max size of pure capital ships)
- why do their fleets have so many logistics vessels  (tanker/freighter)
- they dont feel like a meaneace because they are attacking weak targets in several systems instead of hitting the core with concentrated invasions. In a sense they feel more like cockroaches that pop up again and again in different corners
- is there no way to make them stronger besides them having cheap production? Would a credit producing building not do the same? (yes Im refering to the market price indicator being swamped with their products)

I havent invaded their home system yet,once I have time to do it will let you know how they did.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.07 - Dazs made a boo boo, sorry :( - 03/15/23
Post by: Dazs on March 19, 2023, 04:21:12 AM
So test results until:
I let the Hivers happily grow until cycle 214.
Their they conquered 5 small planets sprayed over the core, but all size 4 or 5 worlds. --> seems ok in size for a mid game vs vanilla
Their fleets are ok to fight with regular capitalships and a nice amount of PD.
Good morning! Sounds like they are doing their job, mid game vs vanilla+ is their power level. I had not intended them to be the end game big bad. I was aiming for an enemy to fight when you are first established and pirates are no longer really a threat but Ordo fleets sill make you use your burn drives.
Annoyances:
- supertanker and superfreighter fleets cant be autoresolved which means boring fight vs cargoships and a lot of CR lost for nothing. Please make those cargoships have less FP or whatever the game uses for calculating if autoresolve is possible. (It wasnt that my fleet was small, it was almost max size of pure capital ships)
I have them set to not retreat and that applies to all their ships including the logistics. I wouldn't say fighting them is for noting, the larger ones have numerous pd weapons that sell for a pretty penny and you get XP for fighting them.
- why do their fleets have so many logistics vessels  (tanker/freighter)
The reason they have logistics ships is because their home system is on the edge of the map and they need a ton of supplies and fuel to reach the core with their large invasion fleets. I gave them a capital freighter and tanker because before that their invasion fleets were full of the smaller ones that took space that would be better suited for combat ships.
- they dont feel like a meaneace because they are attacking weak targets in several systems instead of hitting the core with concentrated invasions. In a sense they feel more like cockroaches that pop up again and again in different corners
Well as I stated earlier they are not meant to be an end game threat. If, as you stated earlier, you are using a fleet full of capitals I would say you are more established than the Hivers are intended to be a threat for. Plus if you ignore them for that long then yes they will scatter shot and start off invading the weaker planets in order to build up and if you ignored them even longer they would eventually take over a vanilla sector.

It is also a matter of how many faction mods you have installed, the more you have the harder it is for them. For example, when players are having a hard time with them I have recommended that they install Peplat's the Xhan Empire. Firstly because it is an awesome very well made mod but also because they are based directly in the route the Hivers take to invade the core. It was not my intention to have them be the defenders of the core but they just love beating down those Hiver invasion fleets.
- is there no way to make them stronger besides them having cheap production? Would a credit producing building not do the same? (yes Im refering to the market price indicator being swamped with their products)
Their internal economy is not really about credits but in order to satisfy their commodity demands. They are in a sort of unique position in that no one will trade with them so if they need fuel, supplies or anything their planets demand they have to produce it themselves. It took me quite some time to have each system interconnected in a self made economy that could grow and afford so many invasion/defense fleets.
I havent invaded their home system yet,once I have time to do it will let you know how they did.
Well with as established as you seem to be then it should not be that hard a challenge. I am working on beefing up their systems but I got sidetracked with some hotfixes. I appreciate the feedback and look forward to hearing your battle report once you do go after them in their current state. Any observations or details you would be willing to share would be helpful in making them a tougher nut to crack.

I think if you ever start a new game and go after them before you have a fully established colony system that can allow you to afford a fleet of capital ships then you would enjoy them more. Personally I usually go after them once I have a fleet that has the correct mix. Then I piggyback on a friendly faction invasion fleet targeting a Hiver world and use them as tanks while I pick off the smaller threats. They are meant to be a combat stepping stone between pirates and Ordo for players who are more into pew pew than trading or smuggling as a way to build up.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.07 - Dazs made a boo boo, sorry :( - 03/15/23
Post by: mllhild on March 19, 2023, 06:21:53 AM
Regarding the Tanker and Freigters again, would changing their class into Combat Freoghter and Combat Tanker make the AI use them as reinforcements?
If that would work and as you kill their combat ships the AI starts to trow their logistics ships at you in the same battle, this would
1. fit their no retreat doctrine,
2. make them more of a endless swarm feeling enemy

Do I have to change anything other than the
ship_data.csv in data/hulls
default_ship_roles.json in data\world\factions
to test this?

To explain better why I want this:

Typical invasion fleet having X amount of fleets means X amount of battles with a CR cost per battle of X*15%CR on average depending on shiptype and DP costs on both sides.

A normal ship has 70% CR.
Debuffs start at 50% CR to damage taken increased, damage dealt decreased,slower fighters respawn, reduced maneuverability
At less than 40% CR a ship will have reduced missile magazines (dropping to empty at 10% CR) and will experience temporary, random malfunctions in combat that take weapons, engines or the shields offline
At less than 20% CR a ship will suffer critical malfunctions upon deployment and in combat, which will disable a weapon or engine for the duration of the battle and cause hull damage

CR gets reduced at the end of the battle, so independent of your combat performance:
Fight 1: 70% CR -> all ok
Fight 2: 55% CR -> all ok
Fight 3: 40% CR -> damage taken increased, damage dealt decreased,slower fighters respawn, reduced maneuverability
Fight 4: 25% CR -> damage taken increased, damage dealt decreased,slower fighters respawn, reduced maneuverability, reduced missile magazines, temporary, random malfunctions
Fight 5: 10% CR -> ships are useless

If you look at invasion fleets from most factions, there usually are around 2-3 of them. Which means that the player fleet can fight them in peak condition or close to it.

Now with Hivers this looks a bit different since you have to fight always a second battle against the supply ships. -> So each fleet creates 2 battles. -> each fleet costs 30% CR to fight

This means that that no matter how well you do in battle, you have to sit on top of a friendly planet to fight more than one hiver fleet.
The other option is what Im doing and having a full capital fleet where I can have essentially two battle fleets and hence deal with 2 or 3 fleets without getting ground down purely on basis of CR.
Still with Hiver inasion fleets often having 4 to 5 fleets this means I still have to go back to a station to repair.

It just makes the fighting very restrictive and not fun since it just turns into lets sit on the planet and have a cargoships full of supplies.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.07 - Dazs made a boo boo, sorry :( - 03/15/23
Post by: Dazs on March 19, 2023, 08:57:40 AM
Regarding the Tanker and Freigters again, would changing their class into Combat Freoghter and Combat Tanker make the AI use them as reinforcements?
If that would work and as you kill their combat ships the AI starts to trow their logistics ships at you in the same battle, this would
1. fit their no retreat doctrine,
2. make them more of a endless swarm feeling enemy

Do I have to change anything other than the
ship_data.csv in data/hulls
default_ship_roles.json in data\world\factions
to test this?

To explain better why I want this:

Typical invasion fleet having X amount of fleets means X amount of battles with a CR cost per battle of X*15%CR on average depending on shiptype and DP costs on both sides.

A normal ship has 70% CR.
Debuffs start at 50% CR to damage taken increased, damage dealt decreased,slower fighters respawn, reduced maneuverability
At less than 40% CR a ship will have reduced missile magazines (dropping to empty at 10% CR) and will experience temporary, random malfunctions in combat that take weapons, engines or the shields offline
At less than 20% CR a ship will suffer critical malfunctions upon deployment and in combat, which will disable a weapon or engine for the duration of the battle and cause hull damage

CR gets reduced at the end of the battle, so independent of your combat performance:
Fight 1: 70% CR -> all ok
Fight 2: 55% CR -> all ok
Fight 3: 40% CR -> damage taken increased, damage dealt decreased,slower fighters respawn, reduced maneuverability
Fight 4: 25% CR -> damage taken increased, damage dealt decreased,slower fighters respawn, reduced maneuverability, reduced missile magazines, temporary, random malfunctions
Fight 5: 10% CR -> ships are useless

If you look at invasion fleets from most factions, there usually are around 2-3 of them. Which means that the player fleet can fight them in peak condition or close to it.

Now with Hivers this looks a bit different since you have to fight always a second battle against the supply ships. -> So each fleet creates 2 battles. -> each fleet costs 30% CR to fight

This means that that no matter how well you do in battle, you have to sit on top of a friendly planet to fight more than one hiver fleet.
The other option is what Im doing and having a full capital fleet where I can have essentially two battle fleets and hence deal with 2 or 3 fleets without getting ground down purely on basis of CR.
Still with Hiver inasion fleets often having 4 to 5 fleets this means I still have to go back to a station to repair.

It just makes the fighting very restrictive and not fun since it just turns into lets sit on the planet and have a cargoships full of supplies.
Oh my you really put some thought into this, thank you so much for clarifying your reasoning. If I were to make them combat freighters/tankers then the game would deploy them in lieu of actual combat ships in the initial wave and since they have a high DP and are rated as capitals I believe it would severely dampen their combat deployments since they are only armed with PD weapons. I would also have to change the settings of fleet usage of freighter use vs combat freighter and the game would weigh them equally with the other smaller combat freighters/tankers when deploying a fleet.

I am sympathetic to your point and agree with you, I am just unsure how I would go about keeping their no surrender/no retreat policy. If you go about your proposed testing I would be interested in what changes you made. I am currently working on a CFT update that I have already put off due to the recent Hiver mod fiasco I had to hotfix so I would like to finish that. I will however put a pin in my plans to update my other mods and put Hiver on the next to-do with your critique in mind and give it more thought. I appreciate your help with the mod and look forward to your results.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.07 - Dazs made a boo boo, sorry :( - 03/15/23
Post by: Dazs on March 20, 2023, 03:27:13 AM
@mllhild I started looking into your concern and I noticed an error on my end that I *think* may be the root cause. If you navigate to the Hiver Swarm mod folder data\world\factions and open the file called "HIVER.faction" using notepad++. Scroll down to line 269 "combatFreighterCombatUseFractionWhenPriority" it is currently set to 1 now change it to 0.1 also change line 268 "combatFreighterCombatUseFraction" to 0.1 as well and then save. It will not effect fleets that are already generated in game but it should lower the use of logistics ships when it generates a new fleet. I am still doing testing on it so there is more to be done before I release an update but I figured since you were already doing some testing on your own you may be interested.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.07 - Dazs made a boo boo, sorry :( - 03/15/23
Post by: mllhild on March 20, 2023, 08:57:57 AM
So here testing results:

Aim:
1. Not having two battles per fleet

Possible solutions:
1. Enemy uses all vessels in combat
2. autoresolve does consider logistics vessels weak enough to autoresolve

Attempts:

1. Changing supertanker and super freighter to combat freighter
- resulted in no noticable change

2. change fleet points to 1 for logistics vessels
- resulted in no change (this could have been obvious if I googled how the autoresolve works https://fractalsoftworks.com/2011/11/09/automatically-resolving-combat/ (https://fractalsoftworks.com/2011/11/09/automatically-resolving-combat/))

2. change DP to 1 for logistics vessels
- resulted in no change

3. Removing the Civilian tag + combat freighter
- AI now is fielding the logistics ships as combat vessels -> objective achived
- side effect 1: it now feels like you are attacked by quite the number of bugs with more visual variety(positive)
- side effect 2: combat last longer (positive)
- side effect 3: larger ships are more valuable due to higher peak performance time (neutral??)
- side effect 4: nerfs missle, phase and Safty Override ships due to more ships to destroy (anything that is bad for phase ships is good in my book)
- side effect 5: if you are fielding frigates, destroyers or cruisers you now will want to rotate your ships during combat or finish quickly to prevent additional CR losses due to exceeding peak combat timers.

I didnt test the removed Civilian tag alone since Im now out of time.

Suggestion:
- remove the civilian tag from all ships
- Lower the DP of super tanker/freighter to 18, or replace one or two small slots with medium slots on them
- this might influence how they do in autoresolve vs other factions


@mllhild I started looking into your concern and I noticed an error on my end that I *think* may be the root cause. If you navigate to the Hiver Swarm mod folder data\world\factions and open the file called "HIVER.faction" using notepad++. Scroll down to line 269 "combatFreighterCombatUseFractionWhenPriority" it is currently set to 1 now change it to 0.1 also change line 268 "combatFreighterCombatUseFraction" to 0.1 as well and then save. It will not effect fleets that are already generated in game but it should lower the use of logistics ships when it generates a new fleet. I am still doing testing on it so there is more to be done before I release an update but I figured since you were already doing some testing on your own you may be interested.
After testing a bit Im actually quite found of fighting fleets with those huge bugs (logistics ships) mixed in. It also makes for a interresting battlefield due to the large debrie generated.
Also if you decrease the amount of logistics ships this could quite boost the power level of their fleets in the autoresolve.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.07 - Dazs made a boo boo, sorry :( - 03/15/23
Post by: Dazs on March 20, 2023, 02:06:05 PM
Suggestion:
- remove the civilian tag from all ships
- Lower the DP of super tanker/freighter to 18, or replace one or two small slots with medium slots on them
- this might influence how they do in autoresolve vs other factions
I've recently started a new game and have been monitoring the Hivers but not fighting them yet since I am still in the early phase. I do see more capital freighters and tankers being used that I expected so there is something going on. I appreciate the break down of your testing and I'll use your data and above suggestion in my deep dive on the mod as a good starting point. I should have some time later this week to give it some focus since it seems my other mods are sitting pretty atm (fingers crossed) :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.07 - Dazs made a boo boo, sorry :( - 03/15/23
Post by: HopeFall on March 20, 2023, 05:11:13 PM
Honestly love this mod. It's fun, and seems to do what Legio used to do before it became a hell of a lot more passive. My only gripe is Saturation Bombardment and the fact that if they capture something, it seems to destabalized and decivilize quickly; but that's a gripe with Nex. Especially since there's no 'fixing' a dead planet, since all unique buildings that say, a modded faction had on, are gone forever. Still, I do like them.

They're very strong it feels like, but then, I'm not running an all capital fleet. That said, it's turned me off from using the UAF because Holy Hell are their fighters broken. I killed so many bugs!

Doing a new run with Iron Shell and I'm crossing my fingers for the massive grand invasion fleet I got to fight once. They had something like 6 fleets! Actually had to fight and retreat multiple times because of CR which was a uniquely fun fighting strat that takes me back to Total War Warhammer and using missile units (I wish you could recover Reinforced ships after retreating - they should become little salvagable dots on the map for later, darn it!).
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.07 - Dazs made a boo boo, sorry :( - 03/15/23
Post by: Dazs on March 20, 2023, 05:40:24 PM
Honestly love this mod. It's fun, and seems to do what Legio used to do before it became a hell of a lot more passive. My only gripe is Saturation Bombardment and the fact that if they capture something, it seems to destabalized and decivilize quickly; but that's a gripe with Nex. Especially since there's no 'fixing' a dead planet, since all unique buildings that say, a modded faction had on, are gone forever. Still, I do like them.
I am glad that you are enjoying the mod so much, so nice to hear.
They're very strong it feels like, but then, I'm not running an all capital fleet. That said, it's turned me off from using the UAF because Holy Hell are their fighters broken. I killed so many bugs!
UAF is a well made mod but they are considered a boss faction so using them against a strong mid game faction like Hiver is sort of overkill imo. :)
Doing a new run with Iron Shell and I'm crossing my fingers for the massive grand invasion fleet I got to fight once. They had something like 6 fleets! Actually had to fight and retreat multiple times because of CR which was a uniquely fun fighting strat that takes me back to Total War Warhammer and using missile units (I wish you could recover Reinforced ships after retreating - they should become little salvagable dots on the map for later, darn it!).
Iron Shell is a great pick, their strengths are good against Hivers and Timid is a wonderful mod maker so give it some love :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.08 - 03/23/23
Post by: Dazs on March 23, 2023, 10:48:59 AM
V1.08 released today - Save game compatible but if you have a captured Hiver logistics ships with Militarized Subsystems on it you want to remove it before installing or it may get wonky

Made some code changes to make them a little more dangerous and to not use so many tankers and freighters as part of their overall fleet composition. I replaced the ship & alternate ship images on the forum OP with larger, easier to see versions and re-arranged the page to be easier (I hope) to navigate, so go give it a look see. ;)

There are a couple more code changes and the details can be found in the changelog located in the RAR and on the forum OP. I hope you enjoy the changes and look forward to any comments or ideas you may have on the mod. I can be reached on the forum or in discord and I check them daily. Now go open a can of raid on the icky buggers!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.08 - 03/23/23
Post by: Volsungare on March 23, 2023, 01:27:36 PM
Out of curiosity, did you ever figure out a way to make them auto detested by other empires so carpet bombing would be ignored?

Another potential issue, I haven't tested this on anything since 1.04 due to other in game goals in the runs, is they don't seem to rebuild worlds?

What I had done:
Raid one system take over all planets/stations (using Nexerelin)
During invasion, remove relics/alpha cores
Post invasion, remove remaining AI cores
Final Actions, sell off all buildings and make colonies semi independent (mine but not under my direct control)

Hivers would retake planets within about 1 cycle, but as far as I could tell, they never rebuilt anything and within a few more cycles the worlds and completely de-civilized and were open for colonization.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.08 - 03/23/23
Post by: Dazs on March 23, 2023, 02:57:31 PM
Out of curiosity, did you ever figure out a way to make them auto detested by other empires so carpet bombing would be ignored?
I have them to auto detest everyone by default. Unfortunately I could not figure a way to have everyone initially hate them in reverse. It is still on the Hiver to-do list but I wanted to get this update out ASAP since it involved fixing yet another Dazs boo boo that mllhild was kind enough to help me fix.
Another potential issue, I haven't tested this on anything since 1.04 due to other in game goals in the runs, is they don't seem to rebuild worlds?

What I had done:
Raid one system take over all planets/stations (using Nexerelin)
During invasion, remove relics/alpha cores
Post invasion, remove remaining AI cores
Final Actions, sell off all buildings and make colonies semi independent (mine but not under my direct control)

Hivers would retake planets within about 1 cycle, but as far as I could tell, they never rebuilt anything and within a few more cycles the worlds and completely de-civilized and were open for colonization.
Well I sort of have them set up that way so they do not overwhelm the sector too fast. Essentially they are a menace that wants the sector to themselves but are only really interested in living in their home systems. Anything they "conquer" is de-civilized and hard to rebuild, sort of a blitzkrieg tactic. It gives the player a chance to re-take lost systems if they take an active role in defeating them. If you ignore them and let the vanilla AI deal with them you'll find yourself in trouble after awhile. However it is a double edged sword if you do take an active role and work toward eliminating them in their home systems, it hampers their ability to re-build. It was the best way I could figure to make them a mid-level threat and leave the end game to the Ordo.

The mod is by no means done so I hope to eventually figure it all out and any suggestions or criticism is welcomed so stay tuned.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.08 - 03/23/23
Post by: HopeFall on March 24, 2023, 04:12:43 PM
Does conquering a planet of theirs for another faction mess them up? Or will they be effectively able to recapture their market and fix any economy damage done? I know they have strange behavior when capturing other people's markets, leading to them become decived. But what about their own base places?

I've seen them 'Colonize' on Nex and deciv themselves, which seems like odd behavior.

On another note. Assuming they  can fix their own starting markets when they've been captured by an enemy, the Nex Conquest Missions should be upped in value somehow, if at all possible. 1 mil to try and fight the outrageous army in an enclosed system is definitely not worth a measely 1 mil. But I'm not sure that's possible, just some considerations.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.08 - 03/23/23
Post by: Dazs on March 24, 2023, 04:34:32 PM
Does conquering a planet of theirs for another faction mess them up? Or will they be effectively able to recapture their market and fix any economy damage done? I know they have strange behavior when capturing other people's markets, leading to them become decived. But what about their own base places?
The thing about Hiver is they are flagged as an "evil" faction so if they conquer a faction's planet that is flagged as "neutral" or "good", which is most of them, then the population will go wild in trying to overthrow the Hivers and it would take them several cycles until it settles down. If the original owner takes it back, the population retains the decived status for quite some time.
I've seen them 'Colonize' on Nex and deciv themselves, which seems like odd behavior.
Nex has a system to pick colony fleets based on the settings in each faction mod. They are then placed in a pool of applicants for the next colony fleet. A mod author can effect that to an extent but it is random chance for a faction to be picked by Nex to send a colonization fleet. The odds of having Hiver picked in your game is lessened for each faction mod installed since the pool is widened.
On another note. Assuming they  can fix their own starting markets when they've been captured by an enemy, the Nex Conquest Missions should be upped in value somehow, if at all possible. 1 mil to try and fight the outrageous army in an enclosed system is definitely not worth a measely 1 mil. But I'm not sure that's possible, just some considerations.
It is a solid idea because they are a harder target then the average faction planet invasion. I am not sure if having a scale based on faction difficulty to payout is doable. That is more a question for Histidine on the Nexerelin thread because I have no clue personally :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.08 - 03/23/23
Post by: HopeFall on March 24, 2023, 05:17:32 PM
Gotcha. On that note though, I'm not sure if you answered my original question! Or at least, I'm not following. Is it "safe" to do a Conquest mission against Hivers? Can they, reasonably, retake it and then rebuild any changes? Or should I avoid messing with them to keep them as a consistent enemy?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.08 - 03/23/23
Post by: Dazs on March 25, 2023, 02:24:27 AM
Gotcha. On that note though, I'm not sure if you answered my original question! Or at least, I'm not following. Is it "safe" to do a Conquest mission against Hivers? Can they, reasonably, retake it and then rebuild any changes?
OH sorry If I misunderstood your question. Sort of, depending on where the mission is. If it is a planet they conquered or colonized then yes they will try and take it back but if you start going after their initial worlds then they will certainly try. The thing is, I have them set in a closed loop economy since no one will trade with them. This gives them some advantages but one fatal flaw. Once you start taking out their initial planets then you disrupt their supply chain and their ability to build fleets. The more of their planets you take from them the weaker they become. Now depending on how long you gave them to build up, they may have several fleets already out there so it may take a couple tries but eventually the goal is to eliminate the faction.
Or should I avoid messing with them to keep them as a consistent enemy?
They are meant to be conquered roughly mid game. If you try to keep them as a consistent enemy too long, well let's just say if left alone they will run rampant over the sector. Depending on how many faction mods you have installed you can ignore them for a bit while you build up but I would not recommend fighting them in their home systems until you are ready to take them on fully. Now you can certainly play tag with them as you build up by going after planets that Hivers have conquered or colonized. What I generally do if I am not quite strong enough to take them on is to play piggyback on a friendly faction that is invading a conquered world and let them tank the fleets and station while I take on the smaller patrols and pick up the scraps. It is a good way to build up levels and story points not to mention credits. :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.08a - Hiver Staring Contest update 04/03/23
Post by: Dazs on April 03, 2023, 01:05:40 PM
v1.08a released today -Just a quick hotfix for a potential issue, Save game compatible with 1.08

While helping Unßorn on discord fix an issue he was having with the mod, ruddygreat was kind enough to suggest that using hidden weapons on anything other than a fighter could cause issues. This hotfix just changes the ships that had the Ommatidia (eyeball) weapon from hidden to turret/hard point. I had set some of the ships to hidden because due to the sprite layout it gave the ship a googly eye look. So get ready for the Hiver staring contest next time you fight them and try not to giggle, it hurts their feelings.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.08a - Hiver Staring Contest update 04/03/23
Post by: SneakyDevil on April 14, 2023, 03:31:19 PM
Quote
If you try to keep them as a consistent enemy too long, well let's just say if left alone they will run rampant over the sector.

Are you sure about this? Several years have passed and the hiver has conquered two planets (and promptly lost both) and expanded to one additional planet. I'm not sure what's going on but right now they are getting dribbled on by unmodded persean league and diktat.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.08a - Hiver Staring Contest update 04/03/23
Post by: Dazs on April 14, 2023, 05:05:09 PM
Quote
If you try to keep them as a consistent enemy too long, well let's just say if left alone they will run rampant over the sector.

Are you sure about this? Several years have passed and the hiver has conquered two planets (and promptly lost both) and expanded to one additional planet. I'm not sure what's going on but right now they are getting dribbled on by unmodded persean league and diktat.

Hello there thank you for taking the time to inquire but some clarity would help me better answer your question. If you are playing a vanilla game then the base factions like the league or diktat should not be able to defeat them, at least that is my experience. Their difficulty level is effected by several factors but it boils down to:
With that in mind, roughly how many faction mods do you have installed and are you using any of the ones in my first point?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.08a - Hiver Staring Contest update 04/03/23
Post by: SneakyDevil on April 14, 2023, 11:16:03 PM
Honestly, I have... quite a number of faction mods. The Xhan upon second look, have lost everything but the capital. After a few hours of playing in the strike mission and invasion logs, the most common are Persean, Diktat, and tri-tach. Legio never even raided them (and got crushed by me). Hegemony and Ludd have been too busy fighting an eternal crusade against my AI using ass. Guest appearances in raids from the Lanestate, ORA, Junk Yard, Imperium, and Shadowyards (that usually fail).

I don't know anything about starsector modding, how factions work, or how you've coded the faction. But with things like Luna Lib out there, would it be possible to enable the user to adjust settings on the Hiver to give them a little extra boost in a more crowded sector? (Or turn them into the Tyranids)

The idea of a hostile faction gradually encroaching, multiplying to more and more planets, and battering down all the factions is something that def changes up the endgame. But if its a "Lot of work to rework that, you are just using too many factions" situation, that's fine too. Thanks for your work on the mod regardless  :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.08a - Hiver Staring Contest update 04/03/23
Post by: Dazs on April 15, 2023, 04:06:20 AM
Thank you for the update and clarity, it really helps me better answer.
Honestly, I have... quite a number of faction mods. The Xhan upon second look, have lost everything but the capital. After a few hours of playing in the strike mission and invasion logs, the most common are Persean, Diktat, and tri-tach. Legio never even raided them (and got crushed by me). Hegemony and Ludd have been too busy fighting an eternal crusade against my AI using ass. Guest appearances in raids from the Lanestate, ORA, Junk Yard, Imperium, and Shadowyards (that usually fail).
Well the Xhan are a nicely balanced faction and will eventually succumb to the Hivers which is why I separated them in my initial answer. Their benefit to the sector is that they happen to be directly in the invasion path the Hivers use and, unbeknownst to you, they have been sniping them before you even see them. Legio does not invade them it is just that the Hivers struggle when invading them that they spend so many resources doing so, their other invasion efforts are stunted.

As to invading the Hivers, the more militarist a faction the more they will invade them. The amount of factors that effect their success rate are many. For example, if I see four or more factions invading them at once that can sometimes backfire if those factions do not like each other then they are just as likely to fight each other rather than the Hivers.
I don't know anything about starsector modding, how factions work, or how you've coded the faction. But with things like Luna Lib out there, would it be possible to enable the user to adjust settings on the Hiver to give them a little extra boost in a more crowded sector?
It has been a constant struggle of mine to get them to a good balance structure. I do not want them to be the end game big bad, I'll leave that to the Space Doritos. I feel they are currently good if a player has roughly 6 faction mods installed and they will present a difficult challenge mid game. Now I am aware of LunaLib and use it (what a great mod Lucas04 gave to the community) and I have been meaning to get into incorporating it into my mods. Hiver has so many optional files, it would be nice to have them enabled by LunaLib rather then having to delete and rename files manually but I am not sure if that is a function that can be done since that is a matter of manipulating CSV files and I believe LunaLib modifies Java files. But again, I have not delved too deeply into it and it is on my next round of mod adjustments so stay tuned but no promises that my inept coding can handle that level of awesomeness.
(Or turn them into the Tyranids)
Tyranids eh, the Ordo Xenos of the Inquisition has identified your IP and will soon be paying you a visit.
The idea of a hostile faction gradually encroaching, multiplying to more and more planets, and battering down all the factions is something that def changes up the endgame.
If left alone they will eventually become the big bad but that takes several cycles and is not really recommended. In my games The Hivers generally start by taking over Lud (path and church) outposts and colonies then branching out from there. Then the other factions take notice and start sending Invasion fleets to try and take them back for themselves but the planets are now decivilized and not very profitable so it can actually cripple a faction's economy to take back Hiver planets. The Hivers are more of a nasty pest that is difficult to weed out once they take hold. It is best to build up your fleet and have a decent colony of your own so you can afford to lose capitals and piggy back on a friendly factions invasion and provide support. Eventually the sector will take back Hiver infested planets and with your help, wipe their initial systems off the map.

I do take your meaning though that there should be an option to give them more teeth for players who use a ton of faction mods. If LunaLib isn't the path, then I could add a separate optional file that increases their ship stats and fleet strength vs the AI controlled fleets. Either way it has been on my to-do list and will eventually get done, it is just that usually what happens is one of my other mods cries for my attention and squeaky mod gets the update.
But if its a "Lot of work to rework that, you are just using too many factions" situation, that's fine too. Thanks for your work on the mod regardless  :)
I don't mind the work, I actually enjoy tinkering with the code and learning new things, plus I am retired and have the time. My mods are not done by any stretch but I have been sort of holding off updating them more since the next Star Sector update is impending. 

I appreciate the nice word and the Junk Yard shout out :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.08a - Hiver Staring Contest update 04/03/23
Post by: rogerbacon on April 15, 2023, 01:04:30 PM
I wanted to try this mod but it crashes on loading with the following message:

Code
88494 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Error loading [data.scripts.HIVERmodPlugin]
java.lang.RuntimeException: Error loading [data.scripts.HIVERmodPlugin]
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore$3.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: File 'data/scripts/util.java', Line 445, Column 0: Non-abstract class "starship_legends.Util$1" must implement method "public abstract int java.util.Comparator.compare(java.lang.Object, java.lang.Object)"
at org.codehaus.janino.JavaSourceClassLoader.generateBytecodes(JavaSourceClassLoader.java:226)
at org.codehaus.janino.JavaSourceClassLoader.findClass(JavaSourceClassLoader.java:178)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
... 2 more
Caused by: org.codehaus.commons.compiler.CompileException: File 'data/scripts/util.java', Line 445, Column 0: Non-abstract class "starship_legends.Util$1" must implement method "public abstract int java.util.Comparator.compare(java.lang.Object, java.lang.Object)"
at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.compileError(UnitCompiler.java:10174)
at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.compile2(UnitCompiler.java:419)
at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.compile2(UnitCompiler.java:658)
at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.compile2(UnitCompiler.java:622)
at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.access$200(UnitCompiler.java:185)
at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler$2.visitAnonymousClassDeclaration(UnitCompiler.java:345)
at org.codehaus.janino.Java$AnonymousClassDeclaration.accept(Java.java:894)

It says the problem is in data/scripts/util.java but i don't even have that file. Very strange.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.08a - Hiver Staring Contest update 04/03/23
Post by: Dazs on April 15, 2023, 02:32:03 PM
Hello there, I will do my best to help but your crash code baffles me atm. The HIVERmodPlugin file:
Code
public class HIVERmodPlugin extends BaseModPlugin {

    @Override
    public void onNewGame() {
boolean haveNexerelin = Global.getSettings().getModManager().isModEnabled("nexerelin");
if (!haveNexerelin || SectorManager.getManager().getCorvusMode()){
            new HIVER_gen().generate(Global.getSector());
        }
    }

Is a very simple one that just ensures Nex is installed. There is no line 445 in the mod so I am assuming it is a conflict with another mod. Now what is really confusing to me is the reference to Starship Legends which I have installed and use myself with no conflicts. I checked that mods files and there is no reference to data/scripts/util.java that I could find there either. I think maybe it is a third mod that is interfering with Starship legends and Hiver Swarm. I know Starship Legends updated last week, do you have the latest version installed?

Maybe Sundog can help since it does reference their work as well, I'll reach out and see if they can make sense of it.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a-RC6] Hiver Swarm - V1.08a - Hiver Staring Contest update 04/03/23
Post by: Sundog on April 16, 2023, 04:00:58 AM
@rogerbacon: This issue seems very similar to the one you had a few months ago: https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321.msg385922#msg385922

Did my suggestion about reinstalling both mods work in that case? Unfortunately I still can't offer much advice other than that. Like Dazs, I'm not getting any issues when I use Hiver and starship legends together, and I'm not aware of anyone other than you getting this particular type of error.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: Dazs on May 12, 2023, 09:53:42 AM
v1.08b released today - Not save compatible with prior versions
   -Added a blacklist for stelnet that prevents Hiver ships and weapons showing up - Jaghaimo is working on a commodities blacklist and I will add to it once released
   -Updated the mod to work with 0.96a
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: eidolad on May 13, 2023, 07:24:16 AM
Howdy getting ready to jump back in with .96 after @8 months not playing.  I noted on the main page that the mod recommends to not play with:

"Nexerelin's Random Core Worlds"

Why does it say this?  My experience has been:  "yes! do play Hiver Swarm with random core worlds"

...in fact I only ever play modded with random core worlds, and Hiver Swarm had been a very interesting addition to the early Nex game.  Hivers do really well in systems where they have a starting advantage...but then the other factions begin to fight back.

Hanging out in their systems in the early game is a high risk/high reward activity.  (I play with Ruthless Sector to limit the classes of derelicts so that it isn't too cheesy)  But picking up Hiver weapons early on is really nice...
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: Dazs on May 13, 2023, 10:51:29 AM
Howdy getting ready to jump back in with .96 after @8 months not playing.  I noted on the main page that the mod recommends to not play with:

"Nexerelin's Random Core Worlds"

Why does it say this?  My experience has been:  "yes! do play Hiver Swarm with random core worlds"
Well hello there, I'll explain as best as I can. The mod does work with the RCW option but it has been my experience that by using random core worlds you disable a faction mod's custom systems. In essence it guts the Hivers custom closed loop economy that I made from them which allows them to grow. I did that because they lack any trading partners since they hate all factions and everyone hates them. Withought trade they do not have the resources to build fleets and their planets were chocked and losing population.
...in fact I only ever play modded with random core worlds, and Hiver Swarm had been a very interesting addition to the early Nex game.  Hivers do really well in systems where they have a starting advantage...but then the other factions begin to fight back.
Essentially they will be assigned random worlds in the RCW option but keep the same faction relationships. RCW assigns them a couple random quality planets and they try to trade with each other but the odds of covering all they need are rather low. In my experience trying them with RCW, they were able to have a couple small fleets in system but were not much of a threat to anyone. I received a couple comments/complaints from some players in the past who play RCW with them so I just figured it would best to put a recommendation on the forum OP.
Hanging out in their systems in the early game is a high risk/high reward activity.  (I play with Ruthless Sector to limit the classes of derelicts so that it isn't too cheesy)  But picking up Hiver weapons early on is really nice...
It's funny actually, I fielded a very similar question on discord last week so I planned to add a blurb to the forum OP as to why I do not recommend using RCW and how it changes the mod and makes them a small threat rather than the medium threat advertised. But then 0.96a hit, then Nex updated then I had a crash report for TTSC then I had to update TTSC and well currently I have been fielding some comments regarding one of my ships and touching it up.

SOOOO, I will be adding that blurb but I will add to it your observations as that is not an angle I had considered. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your thoughts!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: eidolad on May 13, 2023, 05:25:12 PM
That's really interesting about the "trade relationships"...what does a "good Hiver Swarm intra-faction trade relationship" look like to an observer?  Two large worlds with different industries/resources, in separate systems, with uncontested and/or short travel times?  Or those two worlds in the same systems that need stuff from each other?  The intel might be useful so that I can identify star groupings that I should definitely avoid in the early game.  Until at least I have a fast raiding force that might tag along with a friendly faction force heading towards it.

______

I kinda like the Hivers being an early game incursion...that slowly gets mopped up.  It sets a time limit on whether/if the player can get hold of their items and ships.  It also reminds me of a) I get ants in the house b) I apply several countermeasures and they go away.

In other words, I really like Hivers in my random core worlds games and will stubbornly add them because Smashing Big Bug Ships Cool.  Especially if I start a game in a system that has a Hiver world.  The system defenders for the world I'm orbiting begin their wars with the Hiver defenders...and that usually goes badly.  Gosh I just might to hang out and help, and oh look at that juicy salvage.  Hey what's that green weapon?  OK yikes there are no more human defenders...ok time to go.

Also want to note that a "growing" Hiver Swarm faction sounds...oh craps.  There have been times with Nexerelin (Nex) random maps that I've seen Hivers growing a bit but as you say it doesn't last long.  But I've also seen other mod factions have trouble competing in Nex.  Anyway I admit my reason of staying 100% with Random Core Worlds (RCW):  I'm avoiding the standard map until the official 1.0 release of StarSector so that I can play the campaign and map arrangement in it's completed glory.

Thank you for considering an update the OP about RCW...I think new players should just consider whether they would like some early/mid bug infestations (and rare cool weapons in shops/loot):

"A note about adding Hiver Swarm to your Nexerelin game that has Random Core Worlds enabled:  a) Hivers will be a threat in the early-mid game but due to a lack of trading partners, random planet/placement negatively affecting the Hiver economy, and everyone being at war with them basically permanently, the Hiver faction will become starved of resources and begin to lose worlds   b) so they are a unique source of tech/ships but eventually being everyone's enemy will push them into a minor role and/or they will be eliminated"


Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: xenoargh on May 13, 2023, 06:47:08 PM
Just a quick thought: they might work with RCW if using something like EZ Faction to populate them as desired, after Nexerlin runs, rather than being entirely at the mercy of the generators. That might require a fire-once script; I've never looked at how RCW is implemented, but I presume it's much like early Exerelin's system, so it should be possible to run after that, since I presume it's largely just extending procgen.

IDK what state the public build of EZ Faction is in re: 0.96a+ (i.e., don't yell at me if it borks due to economic-engine changes- there's a reason why I haven't bothered updating most of my stuff, and won't until Alex says he's finally done with the core economy, lol). But it might provide a starting-place for this kind of thing.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: Dazs on May 13, 2023, 07:00:40 PM
That's really interesting about the "trade relationships"...what does a "good Hiver Swarm intra-faction trade relationship" look like to an observer?  Two large worlds with different industries/resources, in separate systems, with uncontested and/or short travel times?  Or those two worlds in the same systems that need stuff from each other?  The intel might be useful so that I can identify star groupings that I should definitely avoid in the early game.  Until at least I have a fast raiding force that might tag along with a friendly faction force heading towards it.
Well that is a bit of a complicated story but simply(?) no you would need more than two worlds. In a campaign game I have them set with multiple worlds in each system that each cover the resource needs of the industries in those systems. So they mine all their own raw materials (ore etc), produce their own intermediate supplies(heavy machinery, etc), manufacture their own final products (luxury goods, etc) and have the robust capital output to afford several invasion fleets and the occasional colony fleet (but that is part of a NEX gamble %). Now if you were an outside observer, you would see several trade fleets moving between their systems and landing on planets "trading goods" then moving on to another planet.
I kinda like the Hivers being an early game incursion...that slowly gets mopped up.  It sets a time limit on whether/if the player can get hold of their items and ships.  It also reminds me of a) I get ants in the house b) I apply several countermeasures and they go away.
Heh I like that, RCW makes them more of a household pest rather that the Tyranid rushing your base :)
In other words, I really like Hivers in my random core worlds games and will stubbornly add them because Smashing Big Bug Ships Cool.  Especially if I start a game in a system that has a Hiver world.  The system defenders for the world I'm orbiting begin their wars with the Hiver defenders...and that usually goes badly.  Gosh I just might to hang out and help, and oh look at that juicy salvage.  Hey what's that green weapon?  OK yikes there are no more human defenders...ok time to go.
Well I do have them tuned higher than vanilla factions so in a RCW game each faction pretty much starts off on equal terms economically. So in an early game Hivers will have a good advantage, where the begin to fail is once factions begin to grow and trade with each other. Hivers then have a hard time and they become the minority and with everyone hating them, they constantly get invaded and since they start with only 2 worlds it is not long before they are eliminated.
Also want to note that a "growing" Hiver Swarm faction sounds...oh craps.  There have been times with Nexerelin (Nex) random maps that I've seen Hivers growing a bit but as you say it doesn't last long.  But I've also seen other mod factions have trouble competing in Nex.  Anyway I admit my reason of staying 100% with Random Core Worlds (RCW):  I'm avoiding the standard map until the official 1.0 release of StarSector so that I can play the campaign and map arrangement in it's completed glory.
OH I get that. I like RCW as well and I really wish Derelict empire was worked on more or a new scenario is made. Beyond my capabilities but still I would give a big ole hug to anyone who takes that task on :)
Thank you for considering an update the OP about RCW...I think new players should just consider whether they would like some early/mid bug infestations (and rare cool weapons in shops/loot):
That is quite ok. I am a one man show with six mods to juggle and I rely on players such as yourself pointing things out and sharing their perspective. My mods are a group work and I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.
"A note about adding Hiver Swarm to your Nexerelin game that has Random Core Worlds enabled:  a) Hivers will be a threat in the early-mid game but due to a lack of trading partners, random planet/placement negatively affecting the Hiver economy, and everyone being at war with them basically permanently, the Hiver faction will become starved of resources and begin to lose worlds   b) so they are a unique source of tech/ships but eventually being everyone's enemy will push them into a minor role and/or they will be eliminated"
Nice, you have pretty much saved me the time to write my own. I have a couple edits I'd like to make but with your permission, I plan to plagiarize your work :)
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: Dazs on May 13, 2023, 07:12:43 PM
Just a quick thought: they might work with RCW if using something like EZ Faction to populate them as desired, after Nexerlin runs, rather than being entirely at the mercy of the generators. That might require a fire-once script; I've never looked at how RCW is implemented, but I presume it's much like early Exerelin's system, so it should be possible to run after that, since I presume it's largely just extending procgen.
Hi there xenoargh, big fan :) Good points and I will look into it when time permits but I would have to consider a further modification if I had them appear fully formed in a RCW game it would give them an overwhelming advantage since every other faction starts with random placement and gutted economies. 
IDK what state the public build of EZ Faction is in re: 0.96a+ (i.e., don't yell at me if it borks due to economic-engine changes- there's a reason why I haven't bothered updating most of my stuff, and won't until Alex says he's finally done with the core economy, lol). But it might provide a starting-place for this kind of thing.
Yea I get that, I can keep my mods up to date since they are simple mods that require less maintenance than a more polished mod like Roider Union or HMI. Personally, I have not been able to start a long game since it seems every day a mod I like gets updated and I want them in my current game :)

Thanks for weighing in, I appreciate the help!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: eidolad on May 13, 2023, 07:40:34 PM
great info thanks.  funny enough, my very first .96a game playthrough features almost all of your mods (I don't think i need the hullmod mod since I have the two main "junk/trader" faction ones).  The demon MOAR would not go away until I threw you coffee


forgot to add:  in new game setup, when I set "enable Random Core Worlds":  II see in the "enable factions" menu that the Hiver faction is disabled by default...please consider to set to "enabled" by default, or inform players in the OP page about what the default setting is, and what to do about it
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: Dazs on May 14, 2023, 03:20:47 AM
great info thanks.  funny enough, my very first .96a game playthrough features almost all of your mods (I don't think i need the hullmod mod since I have the two main "junk/trader" faction ones).  The demon MOAR would not go away until I threw you coffee
Glad to do it, I am sure there are other players who have similar questions it was good of you to take the time to ask. (Also gave me a kick in the pants to get it done:) ) But, but you need all six to complete your collection and truly experience the DMSU!
Spoiler
Dazs Mod Starsector Universe
[close]
forgot to add:  in new game setup, when I set "enable Random Core Worlds":  II see in the "enable factions" menu that the Hiver faction is disabled by default...please consider to set to "enabled" by default, or inform players in the OP page about what the default setting is, and what to do about it
Ah yea that was me sort of forcing the issue. I'll add that to the blurb once I field the messages on my other mods that came across this morning. I sort of feel bad about that now, I do my best to make my mods, well, modular with all sorts of of ways to tailor them to an individual's taste and here I go holding up a big ole stop sign on RCW. Bad Dazs Bad!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: NasaBrindle on May 14, 2023, 04:28:42 AM
Hello and good mod! Your ships are beautiful and I like the design, and I love the idea of a perma-hostile faction. I did a game where tangling with the Hivers cost me a fleet or two! :-)

I will note, however, that the Hivers' stated goal of hyper-hostility falls apart fairly often- Being hostile to everyone, they tend to post bounties, which then means my war with the Hegemon rapidly gets me into their good graces, at which point they're a normal faction.

Similarly, I kept finding bio-weapons all over the place well before I met the hivers, which hurt their mystique a little bit. Is there a way to make it so their weapons only drop from direct confrontations?
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: Dazs on May 14, 2023, 04:52:19 AM
Hello and good mod! Your ships are beautiful and I like the design, and I love the idea of a perma-hostile faction.
Ah thank you, I made HIVER specifically because I though the game would benefit from having a mid level threat baddie, it is nice to hear you are enjoying it. HuginBlar from Epta Consortium (a really good looking mod check it out) helped a lot in polishing the sprites up, I'll pass your kind words along to him as well.
I did a game where tangling with the Hivers cost me a fleet or two! :-)
Well that is risk you run but no risk no reward :)
I will note, however, that the Hivers' stated goal of hyper-hostility falls apart fairly often- Being hostile to everyone, they tend to post bounties, which then means my war with the Hegemon rapidly gets me into their good graces, at which point they're a normal faction.
Hmm that is odd, I have them flagged to not post bounties in Nex but I guess you are playing with a mod that has separate bounties. I have code implemented that should reset relations to hostile if a faction nears neutral. Could be the reward for those bounties is circumventing that. Are you using a mod that has bounties separate from vanilla and Nex?
Similarly, I kept finding bio-weapons all over the place well before I met the hivers, which hurt their mystique a little bit. Is there a way to make it so their weapons only drop from direct confrontations?
I did my best to have them explode in AI fights and lessen the chance of recovery but it is a hard coded feature that loot drops no matter who is fighting. I do have an optional setting to make them not drop their weapons at all but that is a nuclear option that I assume you do not want to do. As far as I know there is not an option for only personal fights dropping loot but I can look into it.

I'll double check on my end that nothing regarding bounties changed in either 0.96a or the updated Nex that I need to adjust Hiver for. In the mean time if you could let me know if you are using a mod that posts bounties independent of NEX and SS that would be helpful as I could see if there is a blacklist feature I could incorporate.

Thank you for the kind words and bringing this to my attention!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: Dazs on May 15, 2023, 03:58:32 PM
forgot to add:  in new game setup, when I set "enable Random Core Worlds":  II see in the "enable factions" menu that the Hiver faction is disabled by default...please consider to set to "enabled" by default, or inform players in the OP page about what the default setting is, and what to do about it
@eidolad and a note to all:
I modified my message regarding using this mod with the random core worlds option on the main form page. I added instructions on how to make them appear in the sector when RCW is enabled in to the optional file section on the forum OP (they will be added to the README in the next update) both temporarily as well as permanently. I also added a note regarding the plus/minus of enabling them in RCW and how it drastically changes their threat level.

I hope you are all enjoying the new 0.96a content, I know I sure am. - Enjoy!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: eidolad on May 15, 2023, 04:27:35 PM
Some observations on the first .96a Hiver Swarm in random core worlds, Nexerelin playthrough:

1.  Hivers were exterminated quicker than any game I've had...they will killed about 6 hours into the playthrough.

2.  I picked up not one, but two Hiver blueprint packages and I'm only character level 3...which is truly unheard of for me.  I don't recall ever seeing a Hiver BP package before this.  If Hiver weapons and ships are still a slight (or better) overmatch for a comparable human system, and if I'm seeing the expected "new" BP package drop rate, then this is pretty significant change. 

I'm picking these up either from Research Stations or other exploration sources.   I'm only doing exploration missions until I have enough cash for the first colony.

_________________

A feature request:  "selective faction respawn" for Nexerelin for the Hiver Swarm, if it doesn't have this option.  If Nex *does* have this option...then definitely let the player choose whether Hiver can respawn.  This would be a reasonable workaround to keep the Hiver in the game.  (like those little pavement ants which returned to my kitchen two Springs in a row until I found the problem)

Or if it is better to ask for this over on the Nexerelin thread, then I'll post it over there.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: NasaBrindle on May 15, 2023, 04:57:24 PM
I will note, however, that the Hivers' stated goal of hyper-hostility falls apart fairly often- Being hostile to everyone, they tend to post bounties, which then means my war with the Hegemon rapidly gets me into their good graces, at which point they're a normal faction.
Hmm that is odd, I have them flagged to not post bounties in Nex but I guess you are playing with a mod that has separate bounties. I have code implemented that should reset relations to hostile if a faction nears neutral. Could be the reward for those bounties is circumventing that. Are you using a mod that has bounties separate from vanilla and Nex?

It happened in two games, but that was pre .96, and it hasn't recurred since I posted XD. I was using a fair few mods, but nothing that was explicitly about bounties? They were the standard sector-wide bounties you see a lot. I'll get the save-data if it shows up again!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: Dazs on May 15, 2023, 05:22:56 PM
Some observations on the first .96a Hiver Swarm in random core worlds, Nexerelin playthrough:

1.  Hivers were exterminated quicker than any game I've had...they will killed about 6 hours into the playthrough.
Well that is why I stated that using them in RCW mode sort of breaks the mod. They become toothless but still have superior tech that is now easier to obtain. As I stated earlier, they start off with a couple small fleets that the NPC factions will eventually defeat then eliminate them in the early stages of the game since they cannot reproduce the lost ships. Hiver Swarm is all about Risk vs reward and I have done my best to balance the difficulty level. RCW tosses all that out the window and well you get what the random number generator gives you.
2.  I picked up not one, but two Hiver blueprint packages and I'm only character level 3...which is truly unheard of for me.  I don't recall ever seeing a Hiver BP package before this.  If Hiver weapons and ships are still a slight (or better) overmatch for a comparable human system, and if I'm seeing the expected "new" BP package drop rate, then this is pretty significant change. 

I'm picking these up either from Research Stations or other exploration sources.   I'm only doing exploration missions until I have enough cash for the first colony.
As far as the BP issue, I am not sure why they drop more in RCW mode. You can always just destroy them or sell them on the black market and power up the pirate faction for extra fun.
_________________

A feature request:  "selective faction respawn" for Nexerelin for the Hiver Swarm, if it doesn't have this option.  If Nex *does* have this option...then definitely let the player choose whether Hiver can respawn.  This would be a reasonable workaround to keep the Hiver in the game.  (like those little pavement ants which returned to my kitchen two Springs in a row until I found the problem)
I believe there is an option in NEX for faction respawn but it effects all factions.
Or if it is better to ask for this over on the Nexerelin thread, then I'll post it over there.
It is such a niche request to have that be selective, I would not personally bother Histidine with it as I am sure there is still a ton of work keeping Nex 0.96a stable and I respect the time needed to do all the work that involves.

Thank you for the status update. I do not use them in RCW myself and it is helpful to hear how they fare in that mode from someone who does.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: Dazs on May 15, 2023, 05:33:14 PM
It happened in two games, but that was pre .96, and it hasn't recurred since I posted XD.
I have read in the Nexerelin notes that the bounty system has had some changes made so it may have solved the issue.
I was using a fair few mods, but nothing that was explicitly about bounties? They were the standard sector-wide bounties you see a lot. I'll get the save-data if it shows up again!
I asked because I have them flagged to post no bounties in the Nexerelin faction config so I figure it was a mod using the magiclib bounty system or something like it.

Thank you for the follow up, I'll keep an eye out for it myself and I appreciate the offer to let me know if it happens again post 0.96a.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: eidolad on May 15, 2023, 07:44:42 PM
ok thanks for the info.  FYI that in a single orbital base loot instance:  two Hiver BP packs.  .96a or one of the mods I have has definitely increased the drop rate of blueprint packs in general...

I've got four of the tasty Hiver BP packs in my inventory already

____

Super minor thing:  my brand new Adorable-class frigate purchase as a Junk Yard Dog faction planet (Random Core Worlds) came with the name "HIVER Chekin".

____

To work around the Hivers disappearing, I may just go with faction respawn in my next game that I want Hivers in.  That makes them a pest that just keeps on coming back.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: Dazs on May 16, 2023, 01:17:11 AM
ok thanks for the info.  FYI that in a single orbital base loot instance:  two Hiver BP packs.  .96a or one of the mods I have has definitely increased the drop rate of blueprint packs in general...

I've got four of the tasty Hiver BP packs in my inventory already
I do seem to remember there being a loot re-work in the patch notes but the details escape me in my pre-coffee state. There is an optional file in the RAR that you can enable that makes their BP not drop at all if it gets to be a nuisance.
____
Super minor thing:  my brand new Adorable-class frigate purchase as a Junk Yard Dog faction planet (Random Core Worlds) came with the name "HIVER Chekin".
That is odd, I have JYD ship names set to only pull from a list of dog puns I made for them. At a guess RCW may not read the faction files, it is random after all :)  Must just be a weird coincidence that it picked one of my other mods for it's naming scheme.
To work around the Hivers disappearing, I may just go with faction respawn in my next game that I want Hivers in.  That makes them a pest that just keeps on coming back.
Yep that will work for all factions including Hiver. Just know that when they appear they start fresh and the other factions are more established so Hivers will most likely be eliminated even faster.

I enjoy your status reports, thank you for sharing your experience.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: KDR_11k on May 19, 2023, 03:48:09 PM
Man, the Hivers are way too dominant in Nexrelin with standard core worlds. They always have like 3 invasions running at the same time, sat-bombing several colonies before I even get enough strength to influence anything. Feels like 90% of my battles are against the Hivers just while I try to keep them off my alliance's planets (I've picked Persean League) and every battle is an endless slogfest. I guess the upside is that I get a near endless supply of Hiver loot just from post-battle salvage and their OP weapons can turn any ship into a monster. The conventional factions hardly matter anymore because the Hivers send more attacks than the rest of the sector combined.
It doesn't look like anybody ever attacks their homeworlds so they could easily be less aggressive without losing ground. Or maybe have year-long "hibernation" phases in which they don't invade so we get to see a bit of the regular game in that time.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: Dazs on May 19, 2023, 04:38:45 PM
Man, the Hivers are way too dominant in Nexrelin with standard core worlds. They always have like 3 invasions running at the same time, sat-bombing several colonies before I even get enough strength to influence anything.
It sounds like you do not have any other faction mods enabled. Hivers are recommended for a game that has several enabled to help keep them at bay while you build up. You were doing it hard mode, nice job! :)
Feels like 90% of my battles are against the Hivers just while I try to keep them off my alliance's planets (I've picked Persean League) and every battle is an endless slogfest. I guess the upside is that I get a near endless supply of Hiver loot just from post-battle salvage and their OP weapons can turn any ship into a monster. The conventional factions hardly matter anymore because the Hivers send more attacks than the rest of the sector combined.
It doesn't look like anybody ever attacks their homeworlds so they could easily be less aggressive without losing ground. Or maybe have year-long "hibernation" phases in which they don't invade so we get to see a bit of the regular game in that time.
That is about what I would expect using this mod without more than at least 3 added factions in the game. I know I have made that reccomendation several times but I will add it to the front page of the forum for clarity sake. I find that in my games, and granted I play with multiple factions enabled, the Hivers are fending off multiple invasions. I have them tuned for them to be able to do that and also send invasion fleets of their own.

I have tinkered with the idea of having a separate download that tones them down for a more vanilla game but I just haven't had the time to write another overhaul of the mod. However, once I am done working on a TTSC update, my calendar is free (assuming something on one of my other mods does not blow up) so I'll take a stab at a separate download with a weaker Hiver as my next project. No ETA on that but it has been a long time coming and it is about time I got to it :)

Thank you for your post, I rely on reports like yours to give me insight on how other people play the game and how I can better tune my mods to accommodate different playstyles. Oh and it also it gave me the kick in the pants I needed.  ;)
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: KDR_11k on May 19, 2023, 04:42:36 PM
Ah, yeah, I was only playing with CFT and Arma Armatura, the 0.96 update reset my collection of mods.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: Oelopaca on May 19, 2023, 06:30:46 PM
Hola.

I have played Starsector hundreds of hours, sometimes with more than 10 mod factions, always whit Nex. I tried this one because it reminded me of Starship Troopers and I love it.

But what a disappointment, to find out that they are Green Remnants. You had a great idea but you missed the target. Of course it is your vision, your creation. But they certainly don't look like what they're supposed to. I started a game and I have not managed to reach even 20 hours. It's not so much the amount of power they have right off the bat, it's just that fighting them isn't fun because they're not bugs, they're green Remnants. Pure technology.

I thought it would be the numbers, many ships but relatively weak. It's quite the opposite, that's what the Remnants are for, don't take the paper from the Remnants, it's the only thing those wretches without a soul have.

Other than that, the mod is very good, technically. At least you haven't included manga drawings in the images of the commanders as my "friend" Knight Chase has done with Mayasuran Navy, I was going to post him too but it's even hard for me to enter his section, he has gone too far with the manga aunts. It *** up the atmosphere of the game. But yours do look like they are some kind of merciless leader insects. The design of the ships is good and it's nice to see them coming into battle. The mechanics of an alien race of ever-threatening insects from deep within the sector is amazing, and in a way you've nailed it.

I made the account just to write this to you, you have made me lose 20 hours of my life, which are worth little and I was going to lose them on anything else, true, but it was on your thing. It pains me to uninstall it, it was a good concept, but it doesn't fulfill its supposed insectoid role. I'm a little kidding, you do a good job, but I'm not going to use your mod in the next game.

Well, maybe I'll visit Knight Chase, the truth is that it scares me how someone can spoil something so well worked for a piece of crap like that, we must not forget that it is Starsector. I don't need to see girls drawn in the commander's image, just the face of a being trying to survive in the Persean Sector, and I want to believe it.

This opinion is mine of course, and opinions are like ass, everyone has one. I translated it with google, my english is the worst. Que tenga un buen día Señor.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: Dazs on May 20, 2023, 02:19:43 AM
Ah, yeah, I was only playing with CFT and Arma Armatura, the 0.96 update reset my collection of mods.
Well at least you have good taste in mods :)
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: Dazs on May 20, 2023, 03:00:00 AM
Hola.

I have played Starsector hundreds of hours, sometimes with more than 10 mod factions, always whit Nex. I tried this one because it reminded me of Starship Troopers and I love it.
I am a big Robert Heinlein fan and have read all his books. I thought the movie was it's own thing and missed the mark but good cheesy fun none the less :)
But what a disappointment, to find out that they are Green Remnants. You had a great idea but you missed the target. Of course it is your vision, your creation. But they certainly don't look like what they're supposed to. I started a game and I have not managed to reach even 20 hours. It's not so much the amount of power they have right off the bat, it's just that fighting them isn't fun because they're not bugs, they're green Remnants. Pure technology.
I am sorry to hear that. I guess at a certain perspective you could see them as analogous to remnant but the remnant are the roaming big bads and do not invade or colonize but I think I understand your POV.
I thought it would be the numbers, many ships but relatively weak. It's quite the opposite, that's what the Remnants are for, don't take the paper from the Remnants, it's the only thing those wretches without a soul have.
I would love for them to be an actual swarm like the Tyranids and have fleets filled with hundreds of small and medium ships but I am constrained by the fleet limit size that the game imposes. I tried to compensate for that by giving them the ability to send out multiple invasions at once and swarming in that fashion. I do not mean for this mod to compete with the Remnant, they hate those blue metal boys just as much as the space monkeys. I tried to balance them to be a weaker stepping stone for a player to build up with xp and power levels against so they can eventually go after the Ordo fleets infesting the system.
Other than that, the mod is very good, technically. At least you haven't included manga drawings in the images of the commanders as my "friend" Knight Chase has done with Mayasuran Navy, I was going to post him too but it's even hard for me to enter his section, he has gone too far with the manga aunts. It *** up the atmosphere of the game. But yours do look like they are some kind of merciless leader insects. The design of the ships is good and it's nice to see them coming into battle. The mechanics of an alien race of ever-threatening insects from deep within the sector is amazing, and in a way you've nailed it.
Well that is kind of you to say, thank you. As far as the Manga inspired mods out there, I enjoy them to an extent but I can see where you may find them to be game breaking in a lore perspective. If you find that you want to play with their ships but not the portraits you can always edit the sprites with replacements. It is a single player game, you hurt no one if you tinker with the mods for your personal use. IDK, just a thought.
I made the account just to write this to you, you have made me lose 20 hours of my life, which are worth little and I was going to lose them on anything else, true, but it was on your thing. It pains me to uninstall it, it was a good concept, but it doesn't fulfill its supposed insectoid role. I'm a little kidding, you do a good job, but I'm not going to use your mod in the next game.
That is a fair assessment, and I implore you to not undervalue your time because it is all limited and precious.
Well, maybe I'll visit Knight Chase, the truth is that it scares me how someone can spoil something so well worked for a piece of crap like that, we must not forget that it is Starsector. I don't need to see girls drawn in the commander's image, just the face of a being trying to survive in the Persean Sector, and I want to believe it.
Well that is their vision, please try to respect that. Even though you may not like that style, there is a player base that does and Knight Chase does a good job catering to it. The beauty of this game is that it is free to mod in so many ways. If you can learn Java, and have the inclination then you can make any sort of mod you desire. You can have space clowns that do not fire weapons but use flowers that shoot water and plastic hammers that bop your ships on the head if that its your inclination. :)
This opinion is mine of course, and opinions are like ass, everyone has one. I translated it with google, my english is the worst. Que tenga un buen día Señor.
That is some commitment and I salute you for taking the time to not only give me a concise feedback but also to translate it. I wish you well in your Starsector saga.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: KDR_11k on May 20, 2023, 05:20:16 AM
The Hiver battles open with some swarming as their logistics and support ships recklessly charge in and get swatted within the first minute, after that it tends to be the more dangerous and long lived ships that stick around so it becomes a bit more of a standard battle.

Maybe they could be made swarmier by having some ships come with non-respawning large strike craft in tow, like the Roider Union fighter attachment hullmod? AFAIK the game won't allow proper line ships to be spawned in that way but if they're non-respawning you could add some much heavier "strikecraft" that go even beyond what the current quite dangerous strikers of the Hivers are like.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: Dazs on May 20, 2023, 08:09:37 AM
The Hiver battles open with some swarming as their logistics and support ships recklessly charge in and get swatted within the first minute, after that it tends to be the more dangerous and long lived ships that stick around so it becomes a bit more of a standard battle.

Maybe they could be made swarmier by having some ships come with non-respawning large strike craft in tow, like the Roider Union fighter attachment hullmod? AFAIK the game won't allow proper line ships to be spawned in that way but if they're non-respawning you could add some much heavier "strikecraft" that go even beyond what the current quite dangerous strikers of the Hivers are like.
Well hello there, good to hear from you again. The logistics ships are cannon fodder so l paced a ton of smaller mounts on them to swat fighters and missiles while the big boys do the damage. The best I could do for a swarm effect with the hard coded fleet size limit was have their wings maxed at 6 and the carriers set to be an equal part of their ship deployment. You make some nice points and there are so many things I would like to do with the mod but I am just a hack coder and try as I might, some of the more advanced Java scripts tend to elude me.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: NasaBrindle on May 21, 2023, 04:21:00 AM
I'm finding them quite swarmy as is! Between their love of fighters and those really long-lasting missiles, I'm finding PD absolutely essential to keep the skies even marginally clean. 
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: Dazs on May 21, 2023, 05:29:36 AM
I'm finding them quite swarmy as is! Between their love of fighters and those really long-lasting missiles, I'm finding PD absolutely essential to keep the skies even marginally clean.
Hello there NasaBrindle thanks for checking in again. I hope your bounty issues were solved with .96a, please let me know if it still occurs. They do have weaknesses but they are not the standard ones you may be used to and that is by design. I posted a nice writeup on tips to fight them on the forum OP that I found on reddit and in essence what you posted is the key. Thank you for the post and I hope you are enjoying the mod.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: Couch_Attack on May 21, 2023, 07:12:47 PM
Hi! I started a new game on .96a and I am continually getting a crash anytime I fight these mobs. Once one of them dies, this is the crash.

147598 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at listeners.DamageModel.modifyDamageTaken(DamageModel.java:245)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:68)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:60)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.applyDamage(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.class.oOOO.A.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.class.oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.class.oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)

Just wanted to report this! Thanks.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: Dazs on May 22, 2023, 02:19:07 AM
Good morning Couch_Attack,
Thank you for the report. I looked into this by using console commands to spawn Hiver ships and fight them but I did not receive a crash. Now before I did any further testing or deep dive the Hiver code I did a little research on the NullPointerException in your report. I have to ask if you are using the mod, Realistic Combat? There seems to be a couple crash reports similar to yours in that mod's forum page.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: KDR_11k on May 22, 2023, 02:48:48 AM
The Hivers don't list any required libs in the mod menu BTW, maybe that'll cause some bug reports.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: Dazs on May 22, 2023, 03:09:40 AM
The Hivers don't list any required libs in the mod menu BTW, maybe that'll cause some bug reports.
Hello there, though I think the previous crash report is unrelated you make a solid point. I do have it listed on the forum OP but not everyone visits that and d/l from discord. A clear oversight on my part since I do have that for my other mods. It's a simple addition and I'll add that to the next update for Hiver.

Thank you for the post and you have a great day!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: NasaBrindle on May 22, 2023, 05:37:35 AM
I'm finding them quite swarmy as is! Between their love of fighters and those really long-lasting missiles, I'm finding PD absolutely essential to keep the skies even marginally clean.
Hello there NasaBrindle thanks for checking in again. I hope your bounty issues were solved with .96a, please let me know if it still occurs. They do have weaknesses but they are not the standard ones you may be used to and that is by design. I posted a nice writeup on tips to fight them on the forum OP that I found on reddit and in essence what you posted is the key. Thank you for the post and I hope you are enjoying the mod.

In my current game I've seen them post "please destroy a pirate base" bounties but no more faction-wide, so it hasn't been an issue, thanks!

Re: Weaknesses: They're also very weak to fast, bursty ships. I've got a phase cruiser covered in burstfire beam weapons that one-shots most Hiver ships, especially the designated "Carrier" ones. Getting in and out without being devoured by the swarm can be an art though.

I do think that their weapons may be overpriced- One of their plasma cannons is worth almost 50k if I remember correctly, which means you don't have to beat too many fleets to have a million in loot.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: KDR_11k on May 22, 2023, 07:06:08 AM
I do think that their weapons may be overpriced- One of their plasma cannons is worth almost 50k if I remember correctly, which means you don't have to beat too many fleets to have a million in loot.

Downside is that sometimes your custom produced ships get auto-fitted with Hiver weapons which drives up the price a LOT.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
Post by: Dazs on May 22, 2023, 10:37:57 AM
In my current game I've seen them post "please destroy a pirate base" bounties but no more faction-wide, so it hasn't been an issue, thanks!
Excellent to hear thank you for the update!
Re: Weaknesses: They're also very weak to fast, bursty ships. I've got a phase cruiser covered in burstfire beam weapons that one-shots most Hiver ships, especially the designated "Carrier" ones. Getting in and out without being devoured by the swarm can be an art though.
Well I had to give them SOME weaknesses and you just gave away the trade secret. :)
I do think that their weapons may be overpriced- One of their plasma cannons is worth almost 50k if I remember correctly, which means you don't have to beat too many fleets to have a million in loot.
I hear you, I've lowered the prices three times now. I'll finish my thoughts in my reply to KDR_11k though.

I do think that their weapons may be overpriced- One of their plasma cannons is worth almost 50k if I remember correctly, which means you don't have to beat too many fleets to have a million in loot.

Downside is that sometimes your custom produced ships get auto-fitted with Hiver weapons which drives up the price a LOT.
Thank you for pointing that out. I figured that into the price structure with Hiver assets. I wanted them to be obtainable but hard to replicate. Having a full fleet of captured or re-built Hiver ships can be a goal but it would put the game on easy mode which if that is your personal goal I support it but I am not going to make it cheap :)

Seriously though, Initially my thought was to make the Hiver assets high price so that when a player risks a fleet and loses then they can have expensive loot to compensate. And, as I state earlier, I wanted it to an expensive venture to replicate their assets. Of course you can always just console command them in but it is a single player game and I support players to tailor any of my mods to their style. I never want to impose my vision on anyone but rather to give them an option to maximize their fun.

I did not intend to make this a playable mod since their assets are far more powerful than vanilla standard. Over time I have taken requests to make them playable, make their BP separate, an option to have Hiver ships and weapons that were not bugs, an option to not have their BP drop, an option to not have their weapons drop, an option to not have their ships recoverable. I propose as a comprise to also make an optional file that makes their weapon prices close to or below vanilla analogs since their overpriced weapons tends to be a number one concern players mention. It would be a little work but if that is a thing players want I'll add it to the next update, just let me know if that meets the mark before I do.

Thank you both for the posts, they give me insight and now I have an idea to make it a better mod that I would not have come up with had you not mentioned your concerns. Now I've put off mowing the lawn long enough, best get to it before my wife gets home :)
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Dazs on May 26, 2023, 06:41:25 AM
v1.08c released today -Save game compatible with v1.08b

   -Updated the forum OP and in the RAR README file with instructions on how to make them appear in the sector when random core worlds is enabled - TY eidolad for the idea
   -Added the required libs for the mod to show in the mod menu - Ty KDR_11k for letting me know I oopsied that :)
   -Added an optional file that lowers weapon prices to base vanilla levels - Good for players who do not want high value loot and/or expensive manufacturing costs
   -Updated the RAR README and forum OP with instructions on how to activate the new optional file - TY NasaBrindle and KDR_11k for inspiring the idea

Another player inspired update, thanks eidolad, KDR_11k and NasaBrindle for your input. I appreciate all the help I receive from the Starsector player base so if you have any opinions about any of my mods please send them my way via their respective forum pages or DM me on discord. TY and Enjoy!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: KDR_11k on May 26, 2023, 12:42:10 PM
You're missing an entry in an i18n file.
Unknown string: HIVER_asteroidfield2
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Dazs on May 26, 2023, 05:30:57 PM
You're missing an entry in an i18n file.
Unknown string: HIVER_asteroidfield2
Well hello there KDR_11k thank you for the report but I am a little confused regarding it. From what I know, i18n deals with language localizations and translations to regional locales. I am unsure how that applies to the second asteroid field in Zesketet though, especially since the first one uses the same structure:

Code
		SectorEntityToken Bugfield1 = system.addTerrain(Terrain.ASTEROID_FIELD, 
new AsteroidFieldTerrainPlugin.AsteroidFieldParams(500f, 700f, 30, 40, 4f, 24f, txt("HIVER_asteroidfield1")));

SectorEntityToken Bugfield2 = system.addTerrain(Terrain.ASTEROID_FIELD,
new AsteroidFieldTerrainPlugin.AsteroidFieldParams(500f, 700f, 30, 40, 4f, 24f, txt("HIVER_asteroidfield2")));

I do have them overlapping though so I could separate them if that is what you are reporting. Some clarity would help me better diagnose and address the issue.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: TimeDiver on May 26, 2023, 07:10:02 PM
Is it against the forum's ToS to request v1.08a? Since @Dazs doesn't use either Github or Bitbucket and re-uses the same download link on Google Drive for v1.08c, the usual method of finding earlier versions won't work for Hiver Swarm.

Alternatively, would changing the 'gameVersion' value in mod_info.json to '0.95.1a-RC(#)' be sufficient? Or would doing that run afoul of v0.96's under-the-hood changes?

I have yet to update to v0.96 of Starsector and I wish to try out my luck against this faction with my (mostly) working v0.95.1a mod collection, several of which will definitely NOT work with v0.96 onwards, because they have been abandoned.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Dazs on May 27, 2023, 12:26:43 AM
Is it against the forum's ToS to request v1.08a? Since @Dazs doesn't use either Github or Bitbucket and re-uses the same download link on Google Drive for v1.08c, the usual method of finding earlier versions won't work for Hiver Swarm.

Alternatively, would changing the 'gameVersion' value in mod_info.json to '0.95.1a-RC(#)' be sufficient? Or would doing that run afoul of v0.96's under-the-hood changes?

I have yet to update to v0.96 of Starsector and I wish to try out my luck against this faction with my (mostly) working v0.95.1a mod collection, several of which will definitely NOT work with v0.96 onwards, because they have been abandoned.

Hello there, I do not believe a request is against the TOS and anyway I keep old versions of my mods so it is not a problem. I hosted a version of 1.08a on dropbox for you, here is the link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/u21q884qefqh6vb/Hiver%20Swarm%201.08a.rar?dl=0

Enjoy!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: TimeDiver on May 27, 2023, 01:15:32 AM
Hello there, I do not believe a request is against the TOS and anyway I keep old versions of my mods so it is not a problem. I hosted a version of 1.08a on dropbox for you, here is the link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/u21q884qefqh6vb/Hiver%20Swarm%201.08a.rar?dl=0

Enjoy!
Major thanks, @Dazs!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: KDR_11k on May 27, 2023, 03:53:50 AM
You're missing an entry in an i18n file.
Unknown string: HIVER_asteroidfield2
Well hello there KDR_11k thank you for the report but I am a little confused regarding it. From what I know, i18n deals with language localizations and translations to regional locales. I am unsure how that applies to the second asteroid field in Zesketet though, especially since the first one uses the same structure:

Code
		SectorEntityToken Bugfield1 = system.addTerrain(Terrain.ASTEROID_FIELD, 
new AsteroidFieldTerrainPlugin.AsteroidFieldParams(500f, 700f, 30, 40, 4f, 24f, txt("HIVER_asteroidfield1")));

SectorEntityToken Bugfield2 = system.addTerrain(Terrain.ASTEROID_FIELD,
new AsteroidFieldTerrainPlugin.AsteroidFieldParams(500f, 700f, 30, 40, 4f, 24f, txt("HIVER_asteroidfield2")));

I do have them overlapping though so I could separate them if that is what you are reporting. Some clarity would help me better diagnose and address the issue.

In the status bar at the bottom where it shows what terrains you're in it showed that while I was in the asteroid field. I'm seeing a description text in descriptions.csv but that reads more like a longer form explanation, not a short name and checking other mods I can't seem to find any asteroid fields and such in their descriptions.csv. Not sure where those texts go.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Dazs on May 27, 2023, 04:53:00 AM
In the status bar at the bottom where it shows what terrains you're in it showed that while I was in the asteroid field. I'm seeing a description text in descriptions.csv but that reads more like a longer form explanation, not a short name and checking other mods I can't seem to find any asteroid fields and such in their descriptions.csv. Not sure where those texts go.

OK thank you for the update. When you hover over the field is should read, "The remains of a small moon that collided with a rogue comet." Are you stating that it says, "HIVER_asteroidfield2"?
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: CoralCrust on June 09, 2023, 12:22:30 AM
An absolutely amazing mod that I would consider a must-have in a playthrough (because space bugs trying to take over the sector and you trying to stop them is cool).

One thing that I would love to see added though would be the option to remove Hivers from market lists so that suggested trade routes aren't flooded with 90% Hiver space because that's what the game considers most profitable. It makes trading fairly annoying, even more so while using StelNet (up to about 95% of the most profitable routes are shown as Hiver-Hiver), and since the faction is hostile to everyone and won't trade with you no matter what, it just clutters market screens. However, if there's a DIY fix for this, let me know.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Dazs on June 09, 2023, 01:02:41 AM
An absolutely amazing mod that I would consider a must-have in a playthrough (because space bugs trying to take over the sector and you trying to stop them is cool).
You have no idea how happy that makes me, thank you!
One thing that I would love to see added though would be the option to remove Hivers from market lists so that suggested trade routes aren't flooded with 90% Hiver space because that's what the game considers most profitable. It makes trading fairly annoying, even more so while using StelNet (up to about 95% of the most profitable routes are shown as Hiver-Hiver), and since the faction is hostile to everyone and won't trade with you no matter what, it just clutters market screens. However, if there's a DIY fix for this, let me know.
OH I agree 100%. I did reach out to Histidine to see if it could be done through Nex to hide their markets a couple patches back but it had the unintended consequence of them not being able to trade with each other and gutting their fleets so I had to reverse that change. I also asked Jaghaimo if a blacklist for commodities could be added to StelNet and I was told it would be looked into but that was weeks ago. It is on the to-do list for Hiver but I have not looked into it lately so maybe somewhere in the .96a notes there is an answer. Time to Bug hunt! :)
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Talinoth on July 10, 2023, 01:16:18 AM
Lmao I'm not sure what combination of mods is causing this behaviour, but I became "friendly" (now Cooperative lmao) somehow to Hivers quite early on in my playthrough (probably because I've been kicking the *** out of a laundry list of human factions who Hivers are all Vengeful to) and the Hivers let me dock at their planets. Not that I've abused this feature until quite late in the game - I'm 8 cycles in so I didn't abuse it for easy cash early. Maybe it's Starpocalypse, Nexerelin, or whatever mod gives you +faction relationship when you win impressive victories?

Glad I didn't abuse the trade margins early... Hiver planets have extremely low Accessibility scores, so you can make killer trade deals by buying up the insane commodity surpluses and running them wherever there isn't a surplus (planets with deficits are nice but not necessary to secure profits). I just went from nearly 0 credits (developing 5 colonies at once will do that to you) to 3.5 million quite quickly.
You don't even need to directly betray humanity to make killer profits. Just sell to the Black Market for any planet they capture to make incredible profits.

Militarily, I like the balance of power they're at in my game. I'm running with 12 or 13 modded factions (thereabouts? lost track) and the Hivers do send plenty of invasions but they regularly lose or get their temporary holdings in the Core Worlds wiped quite quickly. I think they did succeed in 1 or 2 satbombings, but only on weak markets (poor Rust Belt RIP). Their core territories are intact - countless invasions get sent, some succeed, but they never hold the planet in question - but I did see one planet get decivilised because it got bullied too much. Still, in an 8 cycle playthrough they're holding really well. Chozanti is currently surrounded by 5 Persean League fleets alone and more faction fleets are on the way, but nevertheless the Hivers are remaining steady. A good balance.

In battle, Hivers weren't what I expected (I fought a few 300k+ bounties). Point-defense is of course extremely necessary due to the high number of battlecarriers, but their ships are a bit more... slow and elite, instead of fast and numerous than I expected. If you're not using an overwhelming number of fighters that EMP Emitter system half of their ships have will rip them to pieces, their energy weapons are extremely efficient and they have armour basically equivalent to 1 ship class higher - so I found an early game UAF frigates + carriers warband was very ill suited for facing them. Ballistics did poor damage and just got armour-tanked, fighters couldn't survive the approach or land serious damage. Despite their lack of raw forward speed (compared to say Pathers, Remnant or Mess swarms) they're extremely maneuverable, so trying to flank them was just worthless and they're extremely deadly in a brawl. Survival came down to "run, shoot, don't get caught".

That was early game. Later, I've found Hiver ships are not particularly resistant to bomber salvos or missile ships. A cursed Astral I salvaged was the perfect "f*** you in particular" to wipe any Hiver ship off the board at little risk to the bombers (EMP Emitter can't 1 shot them all if they just get recalled before flying into range), and a ship with a strong long-range alpha strike (like UAF's Purcellyra) wipes them off the board. The only trick is that whatever you hold the line with needs to be really tough. A very feast-or-famine faction.
The rewards for fighting them are good - the weapons alone covered the cost of repairing ships, let alone the bounties. Comparable with fighting Remnant then selling the Gamma Cores to Tri-Tach actually. Compare that to fighting prv Starwork's Agni (as much pain or more, but the weapons are worth very little) and the Hivers are an asset to the player even if they're not allied to them.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Dazs on July 10, 2023, 05:16:36 AM
Good morning Talinoth. I took one look at your post and thought, um a second cup of coffee is needed :)
Lmao I'm not sure what combination of mods is causing this behaviour, but I became "friendly" (now Cooperative lmao) somehow to Hivers quite early on in my playthrough (probably because I've been kicking the *** out of a laundry list of human factions who Hivers are all Vengeful to) and the Hivers let me dock at their planets. Not that I've abused this feature until quite late in the game - I'm 8 cycles in so I didn't abuse it for easy cash early. Maybe it's Starpocalypse, Nexerelin, or whatever mod gives you +faction relationship when you win impressive victories?
I do have code in the mod that if a player reaches neutral then it automatically resets to vengeful. I guess in theory you could gain enough reputation that the game just jumps over neutral and right to friendly if you are using a mod that gives huge chunks of rep gain, you mention Starpocalypse and I do not use that so it may be that. Either way that is not an intended behavior of the mod unless you flag then as a starting faction as described in the README.
Glad I didn't abuse the trade margins early... Hiver planets have extremely low Accessibility scores, so you can make killer trade deals by buying up the insane commodity surpluses and running them wherever there isn't a surplus (planets with deficits are nice but not necessary to secure profits). I just went from nearly 0 credits (developing 5 colonies at once will do that to you) to 3.5 million quite quickly.
You don't even need to directly betray humanity to make killer profits. Just sell to the Black Market for any planet they capture to make incredible profits.
That is not something I considered but it does sound correct. Since I have them flagged as enemies to all and located way outside of the normal trade routes, I gave them a closed loop economy. That results in stockpiling on some commodities in order to cover any shortfalls. That way they can always afford their invasion and colony fleets w/out trading with another faction to generate revenue. As to the black market well that is risk/reward since there are numerous patrols in their systems and if one spots you then they all come a runnin! :)
Militarily, I like the balance of power they're at in my game. I'm running with 12 or 13 modded factions (thereabouts? lost track) and the Hivers do send plenty of invasions but they regularly lose or get their temporary holdings in the Core Worlds wiped quite quickly. I think they did succeed in 1 or 2 satbombings, but only on weak markets (poor Rust Belt RIP). Their core territories are intact - countless invasions get sent, some succeed, but they never hold the planet in question - but I did see one planet get decivilised because it got bullied too much. Still, in an 8 cycle playthrough they're holding really well. Chozanti is currently surrounded by 5 Persean League fleets alone and more faction fleets are on the way, but nevertheless the Hivers are remaining steady. A good balance.
They aren't conquers in the sense of taking over systems, that would be way too OP too fast. Instead they sat bomb and decivilize settled planets to hurt another faction's economy. It takes a long time to "heal" those wounds. Think of it as a blitzkrieg strategy where they just clear the area of the humans while they only take the choice worlds.
In battle, Hivers weren't what I expected (I fought a few 300k+ bounties). Point-defense is of course extremely necessary due to the high number of battlecarriers, but their ships are a bit more... slow and elite, instead of fast and numerous than I expected. If you're not using an overwhelming number of fighters that EMP Emitter system half of their ships have will rip them to pieces, their energy weapons are extremely efficient and they have armour basically equivalent to 1 ship class higher - so I found an early game UAF frigates + carriers warband was very ill suited for facing them. Ballistics did poor damage and just got armour-tanked, fighters couldn't survive the approach or land serious damage. Despite their lack of raw forward speed (compared to say Pathers, Remnant or Mess swarms) they're extremely maneuverable, so trying to flank them was just worthless and they're extremely deadly in a brawl. Survival came down to "run, shoot, don't get caught".
I have gotten that in the past where by using the word "swarm" they thought it meant fleets full of small ships engulfing your fleet. I use it in the sense that they have multiple invasions going on at once and they focus on swarms of fighters/bombers. Your breakdown on how to fight them is pretty much on point. I do have a strategy guide on the forum OP under spoilers that has one or two addition points you may consider reading.
That was early game. Later, I've found Hiver ships are not particularly resistant to bomber salvos or missile ships. A cursed Astral I salvaged was the perfect "f*** you in particular" to wipe any Hiver ship off the board at little risk to the bombers (EMP Emitter can't 1 shot them all if they just get recalled before flying into range), and a ship with a strong long-range alpha strike (like UAF's Purcellyra) wipes them off the board. The only trick is that whatever you hold the line with needs to be really tough. A very feast-or-famine faction.
I do not personally use UAF but I do read that players consider them overpowered and the perfect HIVER counter.
The rewards for fighting them are good - the weapons alone covered the cost of repairing ships, let alone the bounties. Comparable with fighting Remnant then selling the Gamma Cores to Tri-Tach actually. Compare that to fighting prv Starwork's Agni (as much pain or more, but the weapons are worth very little) and the Hivers are an asset to the player even if they're not allied to them.
I have balanced that risk/reward several times and I think I have it correct now. The Agni are a different thing entirely, they do not migrate, colonize or invade but I do enjoy Prav's implementation of them. Overall I wanted the Hivers to be a fun faction to grind against mid game to gain experience and cash and then once eliminated you are ready to take on the big bad Doritos!

Thank you so much for taking the time to type all this. I enjoyed reading through your analysis as I sipped my second cup.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Zalpha on July 16, 2023, 12:56:38 AM
Hi, I love your mods.

I have been enjoying playing with this mod. I decided with a new game, I wanted to enable them to be playable. Following along with the instructions I reach the last part to add in Replacement Ships.rar. I originally had no intention of adding them but wanted to see them as an option worth considering so I unzipped them and was shocked at how awesome they look! Great job to who ever did them.

Now my question is, could you make it possible to add them in side along side your original bug designs? (Maybe with some configs you could copy and paste over the other files). In my mind the lore is there are small worker bugs that although are not space worthy they can construct ships and man them, to support the hive. I feel it is a waste for them to go to waste sitting on the side lines, and I do not want to get rid of the Zurg like bugs that I enjoy the idea of, finally aliens in the game!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Dazs on July 16, 2023, 04:38:11 AM
Hi, I love your mods.
OH so YOU are the one :) - For real though first off good morning and I truly appreciate the kind words, thank you.
I have been enjoying playing with this mod. I decided with a new game, I wanted to enable them to be playable. Following along with the instructions I reach the last part to add in Replacement Ships.rar.
The playable option was a player request some patches ago. I am happy to hear you have not run into any issues because I do not play them and I was worried that bugs (jk) may have crept in since I have not tested the option in some time.
I originally had no intention of adding them but wanted to see them as an option worth considering so I unzipped them and was shocked at how awesome they look! Great job to who ever did them.
The replacement ships started off as some free to use images on spiral arms that was posted by Prontus the mod creator of RED and BLUE (both great mods imo). I then color shifted them to a more insect looking shade and cut them apart. I then took the pieces and "kit bashed" them into what I thought were shapes that mimicked the main pack. That was quite the pickle jar to open but in the end I thought it was worth it. You have no idea what it means to me that you like them so much as you are the only player who has positively commented on them :)
Now my question is, could you make it possible to add them in side along side your original bug designs? (Maybe with some configs you could copy and paste over the other files).
The original line up of Hiver ships had a mix of biological and mechanical and were pretty much taken from spiral arms with little modification as I had no idea what I doing at them time. Over time and with the help of Hyperion505 and HuginBlar I was able to replace all the mechanicals with biologicals. I was then messaged by some players that they do not like bugs on their screen and some that liked that the mechanicals so that is why I separated them into two separate packs. In order to have them side by side it would require a doubling up of their lineup since, code wise, they are the same ship with the same stats and loadouts. At best, you could decide which ones you would like to replace in the main pack and then mix/match the images, .ship and .variant files.
In my mind the lore is there are small worker bugs that although are not space worthy they can construct ships and man them, to support the hive.
That is the the actual lore for them, they are not a race of giant insects. Their technology is organically based so they essentially CRISPR and grow their ships and weapons.
I feel it is a waste for them to go to waste sitting on the side lines, and I do not want to get rid of the Zurg like bugs that I enjoy the idea of, finally aliens in the game!
I am unsure what you mean by going to waste sitting on the side lines, in my games they are very active. The Zurg are certainly an analog along with the Tyranids from their respective IPs. The Hiver concept originates from a game called Sword of the Stars which I adore. As to aliens in the game I felt it was a lacking feature but I do respect Alex's stance on the matter. There is another alien race, the Agni in the mod prv Starwork (another banger mod). They are not aggressive like the Hivers so you won't see them invading but if you stumble across them they are quite the challenge.

Thank you for taking the time to post all this, I sort of needed it. I was working on a potential update to JYD and did a discord search for some ideas. I was really bummed at all the negativity I saw regarding my mods and myself personally and it sucked the life out of my desire to mod and even play the game. It means so much to me when I get a kind word! :)
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Zalpha on July 20, 2023, 12:45:39 AM
I feel it is a waste for them to go to waste sitting on the side lines, and I do not want to get rid of the Zurg like bugs that I enjoy the idea of, finally aliens in the game!

What I meant by that was you have these awesome ships not being used, it feels like a waste of potential. I should of broken up that sentence with a full stop as it was two trains of thought.

I reverted back to the default setting, removing and re-adding the mod. I followed the steps exactly but it crashed on start up, I forgot the error, something about a missile missing or something. I forgot and was to lazy at the time to report it (got busy with real life), sorry. You can try it on your side and should get the same crash as I did.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Dazs on July 20, 2023, 08:26:22 AM
I feel it is a waste for them to go to waste sitting on the side lines, and I do not want to get rid of the Zurg like bugs that I enjoy the idea of, finally aliens in the game!
Well that is nice to hear and a good morning to you! Alex has stated publicly that the Corvus sector is Human and their AI creations that went out of control only. That is fine and I respect the vision but I found the pirates to be too easy after I was established with a base and the Remnant too hard to tackle other than scouting parties. Thus Hiver Swarm was born, I wanted to add an enemy that was not already in the game that a player can level and gear up with in order to get to the endgame. So I placed them so far away to give players a chance to establish themselves before the madness begins. That is why I label them a mid-game threat and if I put them closer they would really tear the sector apart before the factions were ready for them much less the player. I do hope that I correctly understood what you meant by the sidelines and addressed it, if not please clarify assuming you got through that TLDR :)
What I meant by that was you have these awesome ships not being used, it feels like a waste of potential. I should of broken up that sentence with a full stop as it was two trains of thought.
OH well I already typed the above so lets just let that sit there :) - As to the ships, I had thought of using them to make a playable cyborg faction that would keep them within Alex's standards since it is a mix of human and AI. Thing is, I already have six mods and although the ships are already made (I'd color shift them) I am unsure I could keep up with a seventh. Plus Prontus already has the RED which is in that vein already and the Hiver mechanical pack is sourced from his leftovers on spiral arms so I did not want to infringe.
I reverted back to the default setting, removing and re-adding the mod. I followed the steps exactly but it crashed on start up, I forgot the error, something about a missile missing or something. I forgot and was to lazy at the time to report it (got busy with real life), sorry. You can try it on your side and should get the same crash as I did.
Hmm ok, at a guess, I added a missile in the main pack and neglected to add it in the alternate pack images to match the data files.

Thank you so much for the follow up. I too am swamped at the moment but I can take a look under the hood and see what it is. I could possibly have a fix by this weekend but know it is a mod tinker priority over the other five.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Zalpha on July 20, 2023, 10:19:39 AM
I totally understand about you having to many mods. XD I use them all.

I was thinking, clone your settings for the bugs (already have the mod in place, just change place location and images) but tweak them into Borgs and make the sitting at the bottom right of the screen for the Cyborgs location. Eventually it might just become Bugs vs Borgs = meeting in the middle. Sounds epic in my mind.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Dazs on July 20, 2023, 12:24:41 PM
I totally understand about you having to many mods. XD I use them all.
<3 I appreciate the fandom, I sometimes wonder if I made the mods just for my personal use lol.
I was thinking, clone your settings for the bugs (already have the mod in place, just change place location and images) but tweak them into Borgs and make the sitting at the bottom right of the screen for the Cyborgs location. Eventually it might just become Bugs vs Borgs = meeting in the middle. Sounds epic in my mind.
Actually a good idea but I am sure there are users of the mod that would prefer to keep the mechanical pack as part of Hiver as it was a frequently requested feature in the past. From what I have read, not sure because I do not use it, the UAF mod is really good at taking out the Hivers. Your enthusiasm for the idea has gotten my attention though but but could discord handle yet ANOTHER Dazs mod before it explodes??!! 
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Richared on July 26, 2023, 04:26:37 PM
Okay, I'm probably a moron, but how exactly do I
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Richared on July 26, 2023, 04:27:29 PM
Okay, I'm probably a moron, but how exactly do I

Please excuise that, I accidentally fat fingered enter, but I was asking EXACTLY what files to modify to make their stuff purchasable
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Dazs on July 26, 2023, 05:25:49 PM
Okay, I'm probably a moron, but how exactly do I

Please excuise that, I accidentally fat fingered enter, but I was asking EXACTLY what files to modify to make their stuff purchasable
Heh no problem, I've been known to do that a time or two myself. This is as EXACT as I can make it :)

-Find a file named purchasable_ship_data.csv located in data/hulls - If you delete the current ship_data.csv and rename the optional file ship_data.csv it will make all Hiver ships purchasable and available at the Arms Dealer

-Find a file named purchasable_weapon.data_csv located in data/weapons If you delete the current weapon_data.csv and rename the optional file weapon_data.csv it will make all Hiver weapons purchasable and available at the Arms Dealer
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Richared on July 26, 2023, 05:48:43 PM
Okay, I'm probably a moron, but how exactly do I

Please excuise that, I accidentally fat fingered enter, but I was asking EXACTLY what files to modify to make their stuff purchasable
Heh no problem, I've been known to do that a time or two myself. This is as EXACT as I can make it :)

-Find a file named purchasable_ship_data.csv located in data/hulls - If you delete the current ship_data.csv and rename the optional file ship_data.csv it will make all Hiver ships purchasable and available at the Arms Dealer

-Find a file named purchasable_weapon.data_csv located in data/weapons If you delete the current weapon_data.csv and rename the optional file weapon_data.csv it will make all Hiver weapons purchasable and available at the Arms Dealer

Okay, I assume I delete the ones named EXACTLY that, but what is the optional one?
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Dazs on July 27, 2023, 03:01:38 AM
Okay, I assume I delete the ones named EXACTLY that, but what is the optional one?
I guess I am misunderstanding your question. In the Hiver Swarm main folder look for and open a txt file named README that has all the locations of the optional files and how to enable them. I hope that helps, if not let me know.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Richared on July 27, 2023, 07:16:56 AM
Okay, I assume I delete the ones named EXACTLY that, but what is the optional one?
I guess I am misunderstanding your question. In the Hiver Swarm main folder look for and open a txt file named README that has all the locations of the optional files and how to enable them. I hope that helps, if not let me know.

I'm asking what the OPTIONAL files are called originally, cause I'm not sure which one I am meant to modify.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Dazs on July 27, 2023, 09:55:17 AM
Okay, I assume I delete the ones named EXACTLY that, but what is the optional one?
I guess I am misunderstanding your question. In the Hiver Swarm main folder look for and open a txt file named README that has all the locations of the optional files and how to enable them. I hope that helps, if not let me know.

I'm asking what the OPTIONAL files are called originally, cause I'm not sure which one I am meant to modify.
The mod comes with several different options which are detailed in the README. Your original question was on how to make their "stuff" purchasable. Keep in mind that first the only way you can buy their assets would be to go through the arms dealer when you enable that option. By default they are hostile to all and you would be unable to just dock on one of their planets and buy things like a normal faction.

All the optional features have to be done manually by you, there is no in game menu. Navigate to w/e drive and folder you installed Starsector, there will be a subfolder called "mods". In that subfolder look for a subfolder called "Hiver Swarm 1.08c". Now in that subfolder is the directions, data and graphic files pertaining to Hiver Swarm.

The location of the instructions on how to enable those optional features are detailed in the file called "README" which is located in Starsector\mods\Hiver Swarm 1.08c and it can be opened with any text editor like notepad, Word, etc. If for some reason you do not have a text editor, I also have the instruction located on the Hiver Forum main page, https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=22965.0 now look for a bolded line "The mod comes with several optional files that can be enabled before the start of a new game - below that are the various instructions on how to enable the various optional files under spoiler tags.

To enable ships to be purchasable via the arms dealer, navigate to: Starsector\mods\Hiver Swarm 1.08c\data\hulls and follow the directions in the README
To enable weapons to be purchasable via the arms dealer, navigate to: Starsector\mods\Hiver Swarm 1.08c\data\weapons and follow the directions in the README
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Richared on July 27, 2023, 10:24:19 AM
Okay, I assume I delete the ones named EXACTLY that, but what is the optional one?
I guess I am misunderstanding your question. In the Hiver Swarm main folder look for and open a txt file named README that has all the locations of the optional files and how to enable them. I hope that helps, if not let me know.

I'm asking what the OPTIONAL files are called originally, cause I'm not sure which one I am meant to modify.
The mod comes with several different options which are detailed in the README. Your original question was on how to make their "stuff" purchasable. Keep in mind that first the only way you can buy their assets would be to go through the arms dealer when you enable that option. By default they are hostile to all and you would be unable to just dock on one of their planets and buy things like a normal faction.

All the optional features have to be done manually by you, there is no in game menu. Navigate to w/e drive and folder you installed Starsector, there will be a subfolder called "mods". In that subfolder look for a subfolder called "Hiver Swarm 1.08c". Now in that subfolder is the directions, data and graphic files pertaining to Hiver Swarm.

The location of the instructions on how to enable those optional features are detailed in the file called "README" which is located in Starsector\mods\Hiver Swarm 1.08c and it can be opened with any text editor like notepad, Word, etc. If for some reason you do not have a text editor, I also have the instruction located on the Hiver Forum main page, https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=22965.0 now look for a bolded line "The mod comes with several optional files that can be enabled before the start of a new game - below that are the various instructions on how to enable the various optional files under spoiler tags.

To enable ships to be purchasable via the arms dealer, navigate to: Starsector\mods\Hiver Swarm 1.08c\data\hulls and follow the directions in the README
To enable weapons to be purchasable via the arms dealer, navigate to: Starsector\mods\Hiver Swarm 1.08c\data\weapons and follow the directions in the README

Okay, I understand this, but the README doesn't tell you the name of the optional files, neither does your thing. IT says the pruchasable ships and weapons, but it doesn't tell you the name of the OPTIONAL files you need to rename. I'm just asking what they are because I can't find the name of what files I am meant to rename anywhere.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Dazs on July 27, 2023, 10:54:54 AM
Okay, I assume I delete the ones named EXACTLY that, but what is the optional one?
I guess I am misunderstanding your question. In the Hiver Swarm main folder look for and open a txt file named README that has all the locations of the optional files and how to enable them. I hope that helps, if not let me know.

I'm asking what the OPTIONAL files are called originally, cause I'm not sure which one I am meant to modify.
The mod comes with several different options which are detailed in the README. Your original question was on how to make their "stuff" purchasable. Keep in mind that first the only way you can buy their assets would be to go through the arms dealer when you enable that option. By default they are hostile to all and you would be unable to just dock on one of their planets and buy things like a normal faction.

All the optional features have to be done manually by you, there is no in game menu. Navigate to w/e drive and folder you installed Starsector, there will be a subfolder called "mods". In that subfolder look for a subfolder called "Hiver Swarm 1.08c". Now in that subfolder is the directions, data and graphic files pertaining to Hiver Swarm.

The location of the instructions on how to enable those optional features are detailed in the file called "README" which is located in Starsector\mods\Hiver Swarm 1.08c and it can be opened with any text editor like notepad, Word, etc. If for some reason you do not have a text editor, I also have the instruction located on the Hiver Forum main page, https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=22965.0 now look for a bolded line "The mod comes with several optional files that can be enabled before the start of a new game - below that are the various instructions on how to enable the various optional files under spoiler tags.

To enable ships to be purchasable via the arms dealer, navigate to: Starsector\mods\Hiver Swarm 1.08c\data\hulls and follow the directions in the README
To enable weapons to be purchasable via the arms dealer, navigate to: Starsector\mods\Hiver Swarm 1.08c\data\weapons and follow the directions in the README

Okay, I understand this, but the README doesn't tell you the name of the optional files, neither does your thing. IT says the pruchasable ships and weapons, but it doesn't tell you the name of the OPTIONAL files you need to rename. I'm just asking what they are because I can't find the name of what files I am meant to rename anywhere.
OK I think I now understand your question. The instructions make sense to me but in an objective sense I can see where it can be confusing. Let me parse the following instructional section:
"-Find a file named purchasable_ship_data.csv located in data/hulls - If you delete the current ship_data.csv and rename the optional file ship_data.csv it will make all Hiver ships purchasable and available at the Arms Dealer"

The "and rename the optional file" part of the instructions is referring to the file I state to find in the first part which is "purchasable_ship_data.csv". Essentially you are replacing the standard file "ship_data.csv" with the optional file ("purchasable_ship_data.csv") by deleting the standard "ship_data.csv" then renaming "purchasable_ship_data.csv" to just "ship_data.csv" which will take the place of the standard file and load the code that will make the ships now purchasable from the arms dealer.

I do hope that clears thing up, please let me know either way.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Richared on July 27, 2023, 11:07:30 AM
Okay, I assume I delete the ones named EXACTLY that, but what is the optional one?
I guess I am misunderstanding your question. In the Hiver Swarm main folder look for and open a txt file named README that has all the locations of the optional files and how to enable them. I hope that helps, if not let me know.

I'm asking what the OPTIONAL files are called originally, cause I'm not sure which one I am meant to modify.
The mod comes with several different options which are detailed in the README. Your original question was on how to make their "stuff" purchasable. Keep in mind that first the only way you can buy their assets would be to go through the arms dealer when you enable that option. By default they are hostile to all and you would be unable to just dock on one of their planets and buy things like a normal faction.

All the optional features have to be done manually by you, there is no in game menu. Navigate to w/e drive and folder you installed Starsector, there will be a subfolder called "mods". In that subfolder look for a subfolder called "Hiver Swarm 1.08c". Now in that subfolder is the directions, data and graphic files pertaining to Hiver Swarm.

The location of the instructions on how to enable those optional features are detailed in the file called "README" which is located in Starsector\mods\Hiver Swarm 1.08c and it can be opened with any text editor like notepad, Word, etc. If for some reason you do not have a text editor, I also have the instruction located on the Hiver Forum main page, https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=22965.0 now look for a bolded line "The mod comes with several optional files that can be enabled before the start of a new game - below that are the various instructions on how to enable the various optional files under spoiler tags.

To enable ships to be purchasable via the arms dealer, navigate to: Starsector\mods\Hiver Swarm 1.08c\data\hulls and follow the directions in the README
To enable weapons to be purchasable via the arms dealer, navigate to: Starsector\mods\Hiver Swarm 1.08c\data\weapons and follow the directions in the README

Okay, I understand this, but the README doesn't tell you the name of the optional files, neither does your thing. IT says the pruchasable ships and weapons, but it doesn't tell you the name of the OPTIONAL files you need to rename. I'm just asking what they are because I can't find the name of what files I am meant to rename anywhere.
OK I think I now understand your question. The instructions make sense to me but in an objective sense I can see where it can be confusing. Let me parse the following instructional section:
"-Find a file named purchasable_ship_data.csv located in data/hulls - If you delete the current ship_data.csv and rename the optional file ship_data.csv it will make all Hiver ships purchasable and available at the Arms Dealer"

The "and rename the optional file" part of the instructions is referring to the file I state to find in the first part which is "purchasable_ship_data.csv". Essentially you are replacing the standard file "ship_data.csv" with the optional file ("purchasable_ship_data.csv") by deleting the standard "ship_data.csv" then renaming "purchasable_ship_data.csv" to just "ship_data.csv" which will take the place of the standard file and load the code that will make the ships now purchasable from the arms dealer.

I do hope that clears thing up, please let me know either way.

THANK YOU! I think a slightly easier way to word it is 'Rename purchasable_ship_data.csv to ship_Data.csv after deleting the original one".
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Dazs on July 27, 2023, 01:35:10 PM
THANK YOU! I think a slightly easier way to word it is 'Rename purchasable_ship_data.csv to ship_Data.csv after deleting the original one".
Whew, Success! So glad we were able to drill it down and figure it out. Thank you for sticking with it until it was solved. Good idea, I guess I am a little technical and should be more conversational in the directions.  :-[

Thank you for the suggestion, I will amend the README and Forum OP in the next update.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: NaitNait on July 30, 2023, 03:29:25 PM
Been messing around with the Scarabaeidae and have noticed it occasionally takes hits through the shield from the front. The front hitbox of the ship is probably not quite fully covered by the shield (or maybe the ship hitbox is wonky) and I was wondering if that is intentional or not. It is unique however somewhat annoying as you take hull damage when hits are clearly blocked by the shield.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Dazs on July 30, 2023, 04:17:22 PM
Been messing around with the Scarabaeidae and have noticed it occasionally takes hits through the shield from the front. The front hitbox of the ship is probably not quite fully covered by the shield (or maybe the ship hitbox is wonky) and I was wondering if that is intentional or not. It is unique however somewhat annoying as you take hull damage when hits are clearly blocked by the shield.
Hello there thank you for inquiring,
I just looked over both the data file and the metrics for the Scarabaeidae but do not see an issue on my end. It has an omni shield so I am unsure what you mean by the front taking damage. Just for clarification before I dive deeper, are you sure that the shield is covering the area? I ask because as an omni shield it may be facing another direction.

Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: NaitNait on July 30, 2023, 05:36:24 PM
Been messing around with the Scarabaeidae and have noticed it occasionally takes hits through the shield from the front. The front hitbox of the ship is probably not quite fully covered by the shield (or maybe the ship hitbox is wonky) and I was wondering if that is intentional or not. It is unique however somewhat annoying as you take hull damage when hits are clearly blocked by the shield.
Hello there thank you for inquiring,
I just looked over both the data file and the metrics for the Scarabaeidae but do not see an issue on my end. It has an omni shield so I am unsure what you mean by the front taking damage. Just for clarification before I dive deeper, are you sure that the shield is covering the area? I ask because as an omni shield it may be facing another direction.

It's certainly a bit strange, I don't get any problems with beams but was able to replicate the issue by running a quick sim battle against a Dominator with annihilator pods (also got hit with the Mk 9 on another sim), a bit of splash might have to do with it. You would take damage from the rockets very specific angles, the front right/left.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Dazs on July 30, 2023, 05:46:26 PM
It's certainly a bit strange, I don't get any problems with beams but was able to replicate the issue by running a quick sim battle against a Dominator with annihilator pods (also got hit with the Mk 9 on another sim), a bit of splash might have to do with it. You would take damage from the rockets very specific angles, the front right/left.
I appreciate the specific details, it helps me recreate the issue. I believe the issue MAY be that the Omni shield on that ship is a bit unusual at 275 degrees and you may not be covering an area that you assume you are since most shield arcs are even numbers. That is just a guess mind you, I'll re-create that scenario tomorrow in game and see if I notice anything.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Kreo on July 31, 2023, 06:57:21 AM
It's certainly a bit strange, I don't get any problems with beams but was able to replicate the issue by running a quick sim battle against a Dominator with annihilator pods (also got hit with the Mk 9 on another sim), a bit of splash might have to do with it. You would take damage from the rockets very specific angles, the front right/left.
The same thing, damage goes through the shield from missiles or ballistics, somewhere 30-40 degrees to the right or left.
screenshots: 1 and 2 from reaper torpedo (lost 50% HP). 3 from hephaestus ag cannon.
It can be seen that the shield is raised. At the same time, the color of the damage numbers for the armor and hull is visible.
Spoiler
(https://i122.fastpic.org/thumb/2023/0731/3f/_c196742ac159f82e93dda4f9224a083f.jpeg) (https://fastpic.org/view/122/2023/0731/_c196742ac159f82e93dda4f9224a083f.png.html) (https://i122.fastpic.org/thumb/2023/0731/8d/_2d077f870a29fb466c9691b96ea5248d.jpeg) (https://fastpic.org/view/122/2023/0731/_2d077f870a29fb466c9691b96ea5248d.png.html) (https://i122.fastpic.org/thumb/2023/0731/30/_907e3adaa494d078672f4fc90653f930.jpeg) (https://fastpic.org/view/122/2023/0731/_907e3adaa494d078672f4fc90653f930.png.html)
[close]

As if the hitbox far beyond the visible zone of the model and the shield =)
Spoiler
(https://i122.fastpic.org/thumb/2023/0731/c5/_e37ce39a5d94ede0312fe26d86479dc5.jpeg) (https://fastpic.org/view/122/2023/0731/_e37ce39a5d94ede0312fe26d86479dc5.png.html)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Dazs on July 31, 2023, 07:39:55 AM
The same thing, damage goes through the shield from missiles or ballistics, somewhere 30-40 degrees to the right or left.
screenshots: 1 and 2 from reaper torpedo (lost 50% HP). 3 from hephaestus ag cannon.
It can be seen that the shield is raised. At the same time, the color of the damage numbers for the armor and hull is visible.
As if the hitbox far beyond the visible zone of the model and the shield =)
Thank you so much for including the screenshots. The graphic you show is the alternate mechanical version of the Scarabaeidae and I have been looking at the main pack version. That clears things up quite a bit because I had not considered that and have spent over an hour trying to puzzle this out lol. Ok that being said, back to the grind, I *should* have a fix out later today.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.09 - 07/31/23 - Fine Tuning Edition
Post by: Dazs on July 31, 2023, 10:43:56 AM
v1.09 released today -Save compatible with v1.08c - Well that took 6 hours and two pots of coffee :)

Fixed multiple player reported issues with the mod. The changelog on the forum OP and in the ZIP have all the details and thank you notes

Sorry it took me so long to get to some of them but I needed a break and I *think* Hiver is caught up with the requests other than making the alternate mechanical ships their own faction. @Zalpha I am still thinking of doing it but there were so many little accumulated issues that I wanted to get out first. However before I take on that workload, I just wonder if anyone else would be interested in the Meklar Menace (working title)?
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.09 - 07/31/23 - Fine Tuning Edition
Post by: Zalpha on July 31, 2023, 11:22:41 AM
v1.09 released today -Save compatible with v1.08c - Well that took 6 hours and two pots of coffee :)

Fixed multiple player reported issues with the mod. The changelog on the forum OP and in the ZIP have all the details and thank you notes

Sorry it took me so long to get to some of them but I needed a break and I *think* Hiver is caught up with the requests other than making the alternate mechanical ships their own faction. @Zalpha I am still thinking of doing it but there were so many little accumulated issues that I wanted to get out first. However before I take on that workload, I just wonder if anyone else would be interested in the Meklar Menace (working title)?

Cool beans, take your time. I like the name, it rhymes.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Kreo on July 31, 2023, 12:33:41 PM
Thank you so much for including the screenshots. The graphic you show is the alternate mechanical version of the Scarabaeidae and I have been looking at the main pack version. That clears things up quite a bit because I had not considered that and have spent over an hour trying to puzzle this out lol. Ok that being said, back to the grind, I *should* have a fix out later today.
Not every mod has an alternative version of the visual models. In fact, this is the first time I've seen something like this. So somehow I forgot to mention this detail.
By the way, great work. With the ability to play for a faction, I plan the next session for them.
ps When the mod is downloaded, it is called "Hiver Swarm.rar" although it is packed in zip =)
Good luck =)
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08c - 05/26/23 - Player requested options added
Post by: Dazs on July 31, 2023, 02:36:27 PM
Thank you so much for including the screenshots. The graphic you show is the alternate mechanical version of the Scarabaeidae and I have been looking at the main pack version. That clears things up quite a bit because I had not considered that and have spent over an hour trying to puzzle this out lol. Ok that being said, back to the grind, I *should* have a fix out later today.
Not every mod has an alternative version of the visual models. In fact, this is the first time I've seen something like this. So somehow I forgot to mention this detail.
By the way, great work. With the ability to play for a faction, I plan the next session for them.
ps When the mod is downloaded, it is called "Hiver Swarm.rar" although it is packed in zip =)
Good luck =)
Ah that is a google drive thing. Since it was originally called "Hiver Swarm.rar" it remained that even when I changed the compression. I fixed it and it should now be Hiver Swarm.zip. It's the little things that slip past me like that that dive me crazy lol - Thank you for letting me know!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.09 - 07/31/23 - Fine Tuning Edition
Post by: Jam_mer on September 12, 2023, 07:49:22 AM
Please tell me more mods with aggressive factions. I think I've seen a mod with a player-style faction (uses any ships and weapons), but I can't find it right now.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.09 - 07/31/23 - Fine Tuning Edition
Post by: Dazs on September 12, 2023, 10:16:40 AM
Please tell me more mods with aggressive factions. I think I've seen a mod with a player-style faction (uses any ships and weapons), but I can't find it right now.
Hello there, I am no expert but based on the brief description you give I believe what you are looking for is Tranquility's mod Adversary: https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=25821.0

There is also Legio Infernalis, a strong pirate boss faction within Nia Tahl's mod Tahlan Shipworks: https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=14935.0

I am sure there are others I am not thinking of atm but those two would fit within your description.

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.09 - 07/31/23 - Fine Tuning Edition
Post by: Jam_mer on September 12, 2023, 12:07:20 PM
Please tell me more mods with aggressive factions. I think I've seen a mod with a player-style faction (uses any ships and weapons), but I can't find it right now.
Hello there, I am no expert but based on the brief description you give I believe what you are looking for is Tranquility's mod Adversary: https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=25821.0

There is also Legio Infernalis, a strong pirate boss faction within Nia Tahl's mod Tahlan Shipworks: https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=14935.0

I am sure there are others I am not thinking of atm but those two would fit within your description.

Hope that helps.
Yep, this is it. Thanks!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.09 - 07/31/23 - Fine Tuning Edition
Post by: Uther Phobos on October 25, 2023, 12:30:27 AM
Shouldn't Hiver freighters and tankers be civilian ships? My current game treats them as combat craft which makes the fights less than impressive, especially since they for some reason make up more than 50% of their fleets.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.09 - 07/31/23 - Fine Tuning Edition
Post by: Dazs on October 25, 2023, 02:02:12 AM
Shouldn't Hiver freighters and tankers be civilian ships? My current game treats them as combat craft which makes the fights less than impressive, especially since they for some reason make up more than 50% of their fleets.
You do make a good point that I have been internally debating. They were formerly civilian but as a way of toning them down I removed that status. However, in my playthroughs I have noted that it was probably a bit much as I find them less likely to win fights. I am currently working on some TTSC changes but I do plan to work on Hiver soon as well and I will certainly keep your comment in mind as I do so. My personal time is limited atm due to real life issues so no ETA but I will have something out roughly by end of month/early next month for sure.

Thank you for asking as I was wondering if it was just my personal experience and when players share their opinions it really helps me balance correctly.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.09 - 07/31/23 - Fine Tuning Edition
Post by: Calcite on October 29, 2023, 10:30:53 AM
Sorry if this has been brought up before, but is there a way to 'hide' the faction from the market? Specifically when pressing F1 over an item, it always lists a Hiver planet as 'best to buy/sell'. I love the mod but it's annoying to see every time I check prices.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.09 - 07/31/23 - Fine Tuning Edition
Post by: Dazs on October 29, 2023, 11:34:42 AM
Sorry if this has been brought up before, but is there a way to 'hide' the faction from the market? Specifically when pressing F1 over an item, it always lists a Hiver planet as 'best to buy/sell'. I love the mod but it's annoying to see every time I check prices.
Hello there, I am happy to hear you are enjoying the mod. I have tried several ways to do that as I find it annoying myself. The only way I can get them to invade and colonize it to make them a "playable" faction and that puts them on the market. I did reach out to the author of Stelnet to see if they could hide a commodity market on their end but according to their forum page that is is still a work in progress.

I am working on a Hiver maintenance update as time allows so I will try to reach out again and see if there is a way to do it that I have not come across yet.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.09 - 07/31/23 - Fine Tuning Edition
Post by: Calcite on October 29, 2023, 12:09:07 PM
Thank you for the fast reply! I had a feeling that the answer was going to be related to them being a faction that can colonize.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.09 - 07/31/23 - Fine Tuning Edition
Post by: Dazs on October 29, 2023, 12:20:54 PM
Thank you for the fast reply! I had a feeling that the answer was going to be related to them being a faction that can colonize.
Glad to hear requests, it keeps me on my toes. I sort of gave up on it after trying several ways but your post prompted me to ask on the misc modding questions forum and Alex was kind enough to give me some ideas which I will try to implement in the next update. So stay tuned as my small brain tries to figure this out. :)
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.09 - 07/31/23 - Fine Tuning Edition
Post by: Calcite on October 29, 2023, 12:33:23 PM
I actually popped back into this thread to edit my reply to mention I saw you did that! Thank you for your hard work, both on this and your other mods  ;D
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.09 - 07/31/23 - Fine Tuning Edition
Post by: Dazs on November 01, 2023, 05:34:47 PM
I actually popped back into this thread to edit my reply to mention I saw you did that! Thank you for your hard work, both on this and your other mods  ;D
Thank you, I do try. However try as I might I just cannot seem to hide their commodity markets and still have them be an effective invader. To all those that post on the forum and in discord regarding the commodity issue, know that I am aware of it and it "bugs" me as well. I have not given up but I am putting it on pause for now. However...

v1.10 released today - Save compatible with v1.09
   -Changed all Hiver tankers and freighters to civilian hulls - They will not be deployed in combat over military ships now - TY Uther Phobos for making the point
   -Widened the boundary lines on the Calopteryx and Carabidae - Fixing an issue that could case a crash in rare instances
   -Adjusted the default ship roles of several ships - This effects a ship's chance to spawn in a formed fleet and should field a better mix
   -Increased the range of the Medium Rizokis Laser to match the range of the light - They are generally used in conjunction on the variants
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: reiya on November 21, 2023, 01:40:01 AM
Hello moderators,may i have link hiver swarm for version 0.9.5 ....

thank you for your time.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: Dazs on November 21, 2023, 01:59:42 AM
Hello moderators,may i have link hiver swarm for version 0.9.5 ....

thank you for your time.
I'm flattered that you like the mod enough to ask. I do keep a repository of my mods and here is a link to the last version that was 0.95 compliant https://www.dropbox.com/s/u21q884qefqh6vb/Hiver%20Swarm%201.08a.rar?dl=0 - Note that this version would lack and changes made to the current (1.10) version of the mod. Enjoy!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: Malleator on December 01, 2023, 07:00:01 PM
While I wouldn't want to play as them, they make for a great little arc where you form a large expedition to go purge their xeno asses, though they're suspiciously technologically advanced/developed colony wise for a buncha bugs, imo
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: Dazs on December 01, 2023, 11:38:24 PM
Hello there thank you for the feedback.
While I wouldn't want to play as them, they make for a great little arc where you form a large expedition to go purge their xeno asses
Initially they were NPC only and that is their intended role but I received several requests to make them playable so I added the option but personally I agree with you. Suffer Not The Alien To Live!
though they're suspiciously technologically advanced/developed colony wise for a buncha bugs, imo
Well they are a race of evolved insectoids that are from outside Corvus so their tech is from a different mindset and evolved path than Humanity. If you stack them against the Ordos remnant tech which is derived from Human tech but evolved by AI they are not as advanced. I did my best to give them some unique punch while also give them a couple weaknesses so they would be a threat but not an endgame one, I'll leave that to the Doritos. :)
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: Nicegye00 on December 05, 2023, 01:43:47 PM
I can go and check again in game but I think an easy way to solve the issue of the hivers markets showing up onto the "products" lists when you're trading would be to simply throw their accessibility bonus to get their planets past 100% accessibility. I feel like it might make them harder by default but just ensuring that each of their markets produce the goods they need then boosting up their natural accessibility up thanks to how the game works making every hostile faction drop accessibility, I saw it put into practice once where someone make the pather's have a faction wide bonus to their planets to give their markets more access and it immediately made their planets roughly stabilize and no longer show up with huge deficits on my markets tab. I think that could be applied here and get rid of the hivers from immediately having huge deficits in random resources across most of their planets with most of their resources as without anyone actually hitting their commodities trade fleets out on the fringes of the sector the only way they'd be having their deficit markets showing up would be from very very poor accessibility.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: Dazs on December 06, 2023, 08:53:17 AM
Hello Nicegye00 thank you for your suggestion. I apologize for the delayed response, things have been hectic and my free time has been jammed up.
I can go and check again in game but I think an easy way to solve the issue of the hivers markets showing up onto the "products" lists when you're trading would be to simply throw their accessibility bonus to get their planets past 100% accessibility. I feel like it might make them harder by default but just ensuring that each of their markets produce the goods they need then boosting up their natural accessibility up thanks to how the game works making every hostile faction drop accessibility, I saw it put into practice once where someone make the pather's have a faction wide bonus to their planets to give their markets more access and it immediately made their planets roughly stabilize and no longer show up with huge deficits on my markets tab. I think that could be applied here and get rid of the hivers from immediately having huge deficits in random resources across most of their planets with most of their resources as without anyone actually hitting their commodities trade fleets out on the fringes of the sector the only way they'd be having their deficit markets showing up would be from very very poor accessibility.
This is the first time someone has reported that their issue was Hiver deficit, the complaints I have received in the past were regarding their overages. That made sense to me because I have them overproduce trade goods since they cannot trade with other factions. I have not been in game in a bit but next time I can, I'll open up Stelnet and look for myself and see if there are any shortfalls in their closed economy. If I find any, I can just add an industry to one of the planets that addresses it.

As to adjusting their accessibility, I am not sure I could do that without severely effecting their growth and income generation, both of which are core to their invasion and colony fleets. I'll see what I can do but it would take some time intensive testing to see if that kind of change would effect them late game in the way I expect. So at this stage I could not give an ETA on a solid answer. Best I can say at this stage is that it is on my Hiver TO-DO list and I am open to suggestions from the community.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: Nicegye00 on December 21, 2023, 04:07:31 PM
That's fair and I can of course double check myself as the last time I used hive was some time ago and it seemed to be going both directions for me personally, though I do play modded a bit more chaotically than I think most people would prefer or at least from what I've seen. Either way though I can go ahead and start checking once again to make sure I'm not going crazy or should be simply shut up.

Quote
As to adjusting their accessibility, I am not sure I could do that without severely effecting their growth and income generation, both of which are core to their invasion and colony fleets.


Yeah ok that makes sense. I was more just speaking from the terms of the immediate early game where when one would start looking for things to generate income and suddenly instead of being able to find any good markets to buy from they get to see the hivers having their commodity markets over produce like mad and being the "best locations to buy from" as clearly flying into hiver space is a safe and healthy option for an independent trader.

Counter consideration that I just had would be to try and balance out their productions to being net neutral and then giving their markets an accessibility boon so they neither over produce or under produce and of course once they start expanding out into new systems to colonize it starts to turn into a them problem producing the goods they need, that way at least the player isn't struggling to read the supply and demand menu right out the gates and having no real good idea as to where to buy anything.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: Dazs on December 21, 2023, 06:17:32 PM
That's fair and I can of course double check myself as the last time I used hive was some time ago and it seemed to be going both directions for me personally, though I do play modded a bit more chaotically than I think most people would prefer or at least from what I've seen. Either way though I can go ahead and start checking once again to make sure I'm not going crazy or should be simply shut up.

Ah ok well I have done some changes to the mod over that time so a fresh perspective would be better, looking forward to it. OH and never shut up, I appreciate any pointers I can get.
Yeah ok that makes sense. I was more just speaking from the terms of the immediate early game where when one would start looking for things to generate income and suddenly instead of being able to find any good markets to buy from they get to see the hivers having their commodity markets over produce like mad and being the "best locations to buy from" as clearly flying into hiver space is a safe and healthy option for an independent trader.

I have tried several different ways to omit them from the market but in order for them to invade and colonize under NEX they need a market to trade with each other so they can afford that many fleets. I even asked Alex and I appreciate him trying to help but the code he suggested just gutted their economy. I also reached out to Jaghaimo about an exclusion for Stelnet but I was told that was a work in progress but that was months ago and it has not been implemented yet.
Counter consideration that I just had would be to try and balance out their productions to being net neutral and then giving their markets an accessibility boon so they neither over produce or under produce and of course once they start expanding out into new systems to colonize it starts to turn into a them problem producing the goods they need, that way at least the player isn't struggling to read the supply and demand menu right out the gates and having no real good idea as to where to buy anything.
After the holidays I will tinker with their markets. I have seen some areas of overabundance and I believe it was because when I set them up initially they only had two systems on the far NW corner and one in the SE corner. I thought that would force them to travel the map more but I found out that it just made them weak. So instead I moved the SE one near the other two but never adjusted the overall output since each system has a closed economy. However they will trade with each other and i did not take into account that adding that third system so close that they have surplus.

TLDR: TY so much for getting back to me and I think I have a solution to lower their output and will work on it in 2024 :)
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: Danreivv on December 22, 2023, 08:22:55 AM
Hi there,

Sorry if it has been asked before but this thread is quite the long read.

I was wondering if there was any simple way (i.e tweak some already existing values in a file) in order to slightly slow-down the hiver's feast on the core world.

I favor slow-paced game with a rough start so the first I tried this mod and by the time I was getting somewhere the hiver had already gulped down westernesse and swiss-cheesed the rest of the core.

And it's fine, it's just happening a bit too fast for my taste  :)

Thx in advance.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: Dazs on December 22, 2023, 09:39:43 AM
Hi there,

Sorry if it has been asked before but this thread is quite the long read.
Hello there, yea the mod has been out for a bit and the thread can be a bit of a slog to read though :) I'll help best as I can.
I was wondering if there was any simple way (i.e tweak some already existing values in a file) in order to slightly slow-down the hiver's feast on the core world.
I designed the mod to be used with a few mod factions installed. If you are playing with them with just vanilla factions then they will romp through the sector in no time. They are enemies to all so any faction you install will counter invade them and the more you have the slower their advance because they need to use their fleets in defense rather than invasion. One I would recommend is Peplat's Xhan Empire https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=17972.0 as it is not only a well made faction but their system is very well defended and situated directly in the path of the Hiver invasion fleets so they also unintentionally act as bulwark.
I favor slow-paced game with a rough start so the first I tried this mod and by the time I was getting somewhere the hiver had already gulped down westernesse and swiss-cheesed the rest of the core.

And it's fine, it's just happening a bit too fast for my taste  :)
You can choose the option when starting a game under NEX to delay factions from sending colony fleets until the player has a colony and that will slow them down. Also if you are comfortable editing code, you can go to data\world\factions and open HIVER.faction with an editor. I recommend notepad++ if you do not have an editor, it is free and recognizes Java script. Once opened, navigate to line 265 "aggression":5, and lower that number. The current setting of 5 is the maximum so set it lower and they will be less aggressive but that needs to be done before a game is started. Be cautious with that because that will effect the entire playthrough.
Thx in advance.
Thank you for reaching out, I am sure you are not the only player who faces this issue. Try those and see if it is what you are looking for and I will think more on ways to make them easier that a player could implement.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: Danreivv on December 22, 2023, 10:35:46 AM
That's just perfect.

I'll add that faction, set aggression to like 4 and/or delay until 1st colony and I should be good to go !

Thx again :D
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: Dazs on December 23, 2023, 07:58:22 AM
That's just perfect.

I'll add that faction, set aggression to like 4 and/or delay until 1st colony and I should be good to go !

Thx again :D
Ah excellent, I am glad I could help. I would be curious how it goes once you've played a bit if you would not mind sharing.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: vaarelsauce on December 28, 2023, 02:31:27 AM
Destiny 2 vibes  :o

What's next, the Cabal Corporation?
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: Dazs on December 28, 2023, 02:48:06 AM
Hello there!
Destiny 2 vibes  :o
That is a new one, I hope it is because you enjoy Destiny 2 :)
What's next, the Cabal Corporation?
Already done by Dark.Revenant https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=11002.0 and much better than anything I could bang out.  ;)
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: Dazs on December 29, 2023, 02:12:30 PM
FYI for anyone interested, I was messaged on discord regarding a streamer that is starting a series of fighting the Hivers from starting with nothing, building up their fleet, fighting the Hivers and losing but gaining intel and adjusting their strategy. I just wanted to to let Butter Baronet know I am enjoying the journey and wish them well!

Series starts here if interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R0U38xFUxg

Four episodes so far until the Hivers are first contacted but I have enjoyed the journey of a start to finish vs Hiver run.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: vorpal+5 on January 13, 2024, 02:11:52 AM
Hi there!

First, I wanted to express my deep thanks for your mod. I really like how it plays the big doom threat in my game; it adds so much tension!

Now... I was going to ask something along the lines of what davreivv wrote, and you answered perfectly, so double thanks :)
I too play with a very rough start and excruciatingly high upkeep for my fleet (5x crew salary and many other things) so it is very hard to ramp up fast enough to counter them, and I already see they are conquering a lot of worlds.

I'll add a few more factions, even if I have already the IX battlegroup, Spindle, buffed up pirates and remnants, etc.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: Dazs on January 13, 2024, 02:39:42 AM
Hi there!
Good morning, thanks for stopping by and leaving a comment! :)
First, I wanted to express my deep thanks for your mod. I really like how it plays the big doom threat in my game; it adds so much tension!
That is so kind of you to say. I made them exactly for that reason as I felt the game lacked a bit in danger mid way though a game once I had a decent fleet.
Now... I was going to ask something along the lines of what davreivv wrote, and you answered perfectly, so double thanks :)
Well double you are welcome!  ;)
I too play with a very rough start and excruciatingly high upkeep for my fleet (5x crew salary and many other things) so it is very hard to ramp up fast enough to counter them, and I already see they are conquering a lot of worlds.
I am currently playing a challenging setup myself. The Underworld mod gives a custom start called the Infernal machine that is a scrapped dreadnaught that costs millions to repair but well worth the effort once you do as it is one of the most deadly ships. You start at unfriendly with all factions except independent so making money is hard. To compilate it I have it set to ironman mode and spacer obligation so no restarts and a monthly debt that gets larger the more I level up. Quite the struggle but mining and scavenging got me through the early game and I have to say it is the best challenge I've had to far.
I'll add a few more factions, even if I have already the IX battlegroup, Spindle, buffed up pirates and remnants, etc.
Yea those are good ones to have. I play a very mod heavy game myself as there are so many good ones out there that add to the experience plus it helps me ensure that my mods are compatible.

I am always looking for ideas on how to improve my mods and player input is key so once you've progressed a bit I'd be interested on your observations if you would care to share them.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: Lethice on January 13, 2024, 12:49:13 PM
So there's no way to add these guys to an existing save right?
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: Dazs on January 13, 2024, 01:09:06 PM
So there's no way to add these guys to an existing save right?
Hello there.
 In the current state of the mod a new game is required because their systems and planets generate when the sector is first formed on game start. I would not say there is "no way", only that my lack of skill when I made this mod had not figured out a way. I have not given it any thought since but I believe I have seen faction mods that can populate mid game. I'll give it some research and see what I can do and, as always, if someone has the answer already I am open to hear it.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: vorpal+5 on January 17, 2024, 01:42:52 AM
From the readme, it appears that the author of RATs has devised a method for integrating factions and systems into ongoing games.

I'm still engaged in battling the Hivers, and so far, it's going well. They truly serve as an excellent "Scarecrow" faction, perfect for instilling tension and the sense of an escalating threat. The question, "Will I amass enough power in time to eventually save the sector from them?" is what really drives me. Alternatively, I actually started a new game and introduced the Xan Empire, as it was purported to act as a bulwark against the Hivers. It's important for the unaware public to know that the Hivers are capable of launching attacks on them while simultaneously targeting the sector's main planets! I believe this will hinder them to some extent. ;D

Now, for some genuinely constructive feedback, would it be feasible for Hiver markets to conceal their prices? Displaying them seems somewhat unrealistic, considering they are an insect society with no interest in trade, only in annihilation. Additionally, it might be worth considering the removal of certain missions they offer, like surveying a planet, as this doesn't align with Hiver behavior—they wouldn't request mere humans to survey planets.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: Dazs on January 17, 2024, 03:00:49 AM
From the readme, it appears that the author of RATs has devised a method for integrating factions and systems into ongoing games.
Thank you for the tip, I do use RAT but had not considered that a candidate for a solution.
I'm still engaged in battling the Hivers, and so far, it's going well. They truly serve as an excellent "Scarecrow" faction, perfect for instilling tension and the sense of an escalating threat. The question, "Will I amass enough power in time to eventually save the sector from them?" is what really drives me.
Excellent, that is what I intended and it is so nice to hear that since I have been tinkering with the mod for quite some time now (changelog for details) it is good to know someone is enjoying it.
Alternatively, I actually started a new game and introduced the Xan Empire, as it was purported to act as a bulwark against the Hivers. It's important for the unaware public to know that the Hivers are capable of launching attacks on them while simultaneously targeting the sector's main planets! I believe this will hinder them to some extent. ;D
They are not a foolproof solution as that mod predates mine but not only is a well made mod but it is very well defended. So as it is the closest to the Hiver systems they tend to invade them first and get obliterated. Also as another way to slow them down, install more faction mods. The more factions (Hivers hate ALL factions) the more they will be counter invaded which will have them dedicate their fleets to defense rater than invasion and colonization.
Now, for some genuinely constructive feedback, would it be feasible for Hiver markets to conceal their prices? Displaying them seems somewhat unrealistic, considering they are an insect society with no interest in trade, only in annihilation. Additionally, it might be worth considering the removal of certain missions they offer, like surveying a planet, as this doesn't align with Hiver behavior—they wouldn't request mere humans to survey planets.
That is a lingering problem that I have been trying to fix. I reached out to Alex and he gave me some suggestions but when I implemented them it did indeed hide their markets. The problem was though it also hid them from Hivers themselves and they could no longer trade with themselves. Since they are hostile to all it gutted their ability to form fleets so um that was a no go :) As another potential solution I reached out to the author of Stelnet and they said it was something they could potentially add but that was months ago and still no update on that.

At this stage, I have invested hours and hours trying to get their markets to not show, I am at a loss and sort of gave up in disgust lol. It is still on the to-do and now the holidays are over I should have some time to work on both the ongoing game and the markets issues. No ETA on that but none of my other mods have outstanding requests so I can dedicate w/e free time I have on this one so stay tuned I guess :)
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: vorpal+5 on January 18, 2024, 05:32:30 AM
Oh, I should have suspected you knew seeing markets was not optimal. I was naive enough to think it was easy to fix. Do what you can, no problem!

About mods adding planets mid-game, LOST_SECTOR does also that for Kesteven. And the mod author of Secrets of the Frontier indicates his mod can be added mid-game and I do think it also instanciates some worlds on the fly.
Keep up the good work  :)
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: Dazs on January 18, 2024, 08:29:42 AM
Oh, I should have suspected you knew seeing markets was not optimal. I was naive enough to think it was easy to fix. Do what you can, no problem!
Heh I get that. When I started making mods I was naïve enough to think, hey I can do this how hard can it be? Lol. I am self taught with JavaScript and just leaned things as I needed to. Heck I do not even know how to use a complier and write my mods manually in notepad++. I told that once to a mod maker who was helping me and their response was !!!???  ;) There is probably a way to do it, I just have a hole in my knowledge since I never looked into it before.
About mods adding planets mid-game, LOST_SECTOR does also that for Kesteven. And the mod author of Secrets of the Frontier indicates his mod can be added mid-game and I do think it also instanciates some worlds on the fly.
Keep up the good work  :)
Thank you for another lead, that is a must have mod in my games so I will look into that one as well. The issue is, from my previous investigations, is that I have Hivers set up as a playable faction so they can use the Nexerelin invasion and colonization scripts. That is why when I looked into other enemy mods like Agni or Bladebreakers it was not a direct comparison since those enemies do not use those scripts. Ugh anyway not to bore you with the details, I am already a TLDR kind of guy.

I should have some time this weekend to get to it but we have a snow storm incoming and we lost power in the last one so who knows so stay tuned.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: rogerbacon on January 21, 2024, 12:59:36 PM
I just odwnloaded the mod to try it out and it gives this error:
java.lang.RuntimeException: Error loading [data.scripts.HIVERmodPlugin]
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore$3.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:750)
Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: File 'data/scripts/util.java', Line 445, Column 0: Non-abstract class "starship_legends.Util$1" must implement method "public abstract int java.util.Comparator.compare(java.lang.Object, java.lang.Object)"

Is there a known conflict with starship legends? It seems to be complaining about non-implemented method.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: Dazs on January 21, 2024, 02:20:32 PM
I just odwnloaded the mod to try it out and it gives this error:
java.lang.RuntimeException: Error loading [data.scripts.HIVERmodPlugin]
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore$3.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:750)
Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: File 'data/scripts/util.java', Line 445, Column 0: Non-abstract class "starship_legends.Util$1" must implement method "public abstract int java.util.Comparator.compare(java.lang.Object, java.lang.Object)"

Is there a known conflict with starship legends? It seems to be complaining about non-implemented method.
Hello there, I looked over my code but I am a bit stumped on this. I run both mods and never ran into that and both mods have been out for quite some time and this is the first time that has been reported. All HIVERmodPlugin does is generate the faction when stating a new game which is pretty boilerplate for most faction mods. Starship Legends has their scripts compiled in JAR format so I have not been able to check on their end as I do not know how to use a compiler. But since it has not been reported before I think a third mod may be responsible.

I appreciate you reaching out but I am sorry I could not be more help more. I am an ameture mod maker and not as knowledgeable as other mod authors, maybe Sundog would have a better answer if you ask on their mod thread.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: vorpal+5 on January 22, 2024, 12:53:24 AM
Roger Bacon, as in the famous DW2 modder?

@Dazs ... Playing more against the Hiver, a cosmetic remark (which is minor admittedly) ... The insects-like shapes are difficult to memorize. Perhaps they could be altered so that civilian (troop transports, tankers) have some specifics (no pincers perhaps?) while carriers have another thing (sting?) while combat ships have pincers or something?
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: Dazs on January 22, 2024, 07:43:45 AM
Roger Bacon, as in the famous DW2 modder?

@Dazs ... Playing more against the Hiver, a cosmetic remark (which is minor admittedly) ... The insects-like shapes are difficult to memorize. Perhaps they could be altered so that civilian (troop transports, tankers) have some specifics (no pincers perhaps?) while carriers have another thing (sting?) while combat ships have pincers or something?
Hello again and thank you for the suggestion. I currently have some distinction in the ships which may or may not be apparent. The capital freighter (Chalcosoma) and tanker (Cerambycidae) share the same model which are quite distinctive from the rest of their fleet with the difference between the two being the tanker variant is red (standard tanker color). The troop transport (Hornet) is the only bright green/yellow ship and stands out. The medium (Swimmer) and small (Viridula) tankers are the only ships that have bright red areas that represents a bio version of a fuel tank. The one that does not really stand out to me is the medium freighter (Scarab) so I guess I could edit that one more. Knowing that, do you have any specific suggestions because it is a bit of work to remake ships and I have already done it 4 times so I want to make sure that we have clarity.

Also: I am still looking into hiding their markets but with no success so far but I did lose power Fri/Sat due to ice/snow so I have not had that much time to work on it. I have not yet looked into making them installable mid-game due to time spent with no power and clearing snow/ice (fun times) but that is also on the list. Note: I may be delayed on these code changes since Alex has announced an incoming major patch to the game and that always comes with compatibility concerns so no ETA at this time.

Thank you for taking the time, I am appreciative of comments and suggestions as I want my mods to be as enjoyable as possible and player input is key.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: rogerbacon on January 22, 2024, 03:48:02 PM


I appreciate you reaching out but I am sorry I could not be more help more. I am an ameture mod maker and not as knowledgeable as other mod authors, maybe Sundog would have a better answer if you ask on their mod thread.

OK, thanks anyway. I'll dig into it and see waht I can learn. I'll let you know if I find the cause and solution.

Roger Bacon, as in the famous DW2 modder?


Distant World Universe, yep. That's me. Maybe DW2 in a few years after they're done adding stuff to it.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: vorpal+5 on January 23, 2024, 12:11:59 AM
Ah yes, DWU instead, not DW2, silly me. Still, many appreciate your good work!

@Dazs, it's ok, I'll try to learn the forms and shapes, don't waste hours on that, if you already retouched them 4 times. I guess it's very much "YMMV" for many people and someone might ask for something else.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: Dazs on January 23, 2024, 02:56:43 AM
OK, thanks anyway. I'll dig into it and see waht I can learn. I'll let you know if I find the cause and solution.
I would appreciate that, here is a list of my current enabled mods:
  "PAGSM",
  "SBTM",
  "$$$_DakkaHolics_sprites",
  "$$$_lightshow_nc",
  "$$$_trailermoments",
  "pantera_ANewLevel30",
  "all_the_domain_drones+NewDrones",
  "A_S-F",
  "Angry Periphery",
  "anotherportraitpack",
  "apex_design",
  "armaa",
  "lw_autosave",
  "battletechportraitpack",
  "timid_admins",
  "BSC",
  "brdy_addon",
  "blackrock_driveyards",
  "HMI_brighton",
  "ORK",
  "CaptainsLog",
  "CFT",
  "CJHM",
  "Csp",
  "combatactivators",
  "chatter",
  "timid_commissioned_hull_mods",
  "customizablestarsystems",
  "istl_dassaultmikoyan",
  "DetailedCombatResults",
  "diableavionics",
  "Diktat Enhancement",
  "dex",
  "edshipyard",
  "EmergentThreats_Vice",
  "EmergentThreats_IX_Revival",
  "seven_nexus",
  "Everybody loves KoC",
  "XLU",
  "FPE",
  "sun_fuel_siphoning",
  "FantasyM",
  "GrandColonies",
  "GMDA",
  "HMI_SV",
  "HMI",
  "hte",
  "HIVER",
  "hcok",
  "IndEvo",
  "interestingportraitspack",
  "internalaffairs",
  "Imperium",
  "timid_xiv",
  "JYD",
  "keruvim_shipyards",
  "kyeltziv",
  "lost_sector",
  "LTA",
  "lw_lazylib",
  "ArkLeg",
  "lockedAndLoaded",
  "luddenhance",
  "lunalib",
  "exshippack",
  "mag_protect",
  "MagicLib",
  "Marvelous-Personas",
  "Mayasuran Navy",
  "missinghegemonyauxiliaryships",
  "missingshipscivilian",
  "missingsuperships",
  "missingmidlineships",
  "missingpatherships",
  "missingshipspirate",
  "MoreBarMissions",
  "ness_saw",
  "wisp_NeutrinoDetectorMkII",
  "sun_new_beginnings",
  "nexerelin",
  "sun_nomadic_survival",
  "objects_analysis",
  "OcuA",
  "Ocutek",
  "JYDR",
  "oas",
  "ORA",
  "PirateMiniMegaMod",
  "wisp_perseanchronicles",
  "portrait_changer",
  "progressiveSMods",
  "QualityCaptains",
  "assortment_of_things",
  "roider",
  "rotcesrats",
  "sun_ruthless_sector",
  "scalartech",
  "Scrapyard",
  "SCY",
  "secretsofthefrontier",
  "SEEKER",
  "shadow_ships",
  "swp",
  "spacetruckin",
  "speedUp",
  "sun_starship_legends",
  "stelnet",
  "StopGapMeasures3",
  "timid_supply_forging",
  "supportships",
  "surveycorpssp",
  "symbiotic_void_creatures",
  "tahlan",
  "presmattdamon_takenoprisoners",
  "Terraforming & Station Construction",
  "star_federation",
  "TORCHSHIPS",
  "transpoffder",
  "TTSC",
  "underworld",
  "US",
  "vic",
  "vayrasector",
  "vayrashippack",
  "TouchOfVanilla_vri",
  "whichmod",
  "XhanEmpire",
  "audio_plus",
  "ezsadditionalcharacternames",
  "prvExtra",
  "prvPath",
  "prv",
  "shaderLib",
  "zzz_DakkaHolics"

Check you list against mine and any of the missing ones are most likely the problem.

@Dazs, it's ok, I'll try to learn the forms and shapes, don't waste hours on that, if you already retouched them 4 times. I guess it's very much "YMMV" for many people and someone might ask for something else.
Well they ARE aliens after all, makes sense their designs are not easily understood :) Seriously though, I do try my best to accommodate players when their concerns are valid and doable. There is an alternate mechanical looking ship pack for Hivers in the ZIP you may want to look over if bugs aren't your thing.

Thank you both for getting back to me, I am interested on your thoughts once you've played against them for a bit if you would care to share.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: Dazs on January 23, 2024, 09:23:22 AM
In episode 8 our intrepid explorer starts to figure out the key to win vs the Hivers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zep4ixUj93E
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: rogerbacon on January 23, 2024, 11:20:36 AM
I found the conflict. In Starship Legends I had included the decompiled java files and sometimes that causes issues as it differs slightly from the compiled version. After removing them, it loads fine now.

I'm on episode 6 of your video series. I watch them at lunchtime. It's what motivated me to install the mod.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: Dazs on January 23, 2024, 06:59:50 PM
I found the conflict. In Starship Legends I had included the decompiled java files and sometimes that causes issues as it differs slightly from the compiled version. After removing them, it loads fine now.
Ah that is a relief, thank you for letting me know. I was going over the code between SL and Hiver and could not find anything.
I'm on episode 6 of your video series. I watch them at lunchtime. It's what motivated me to install the mod.
Well its not my series per se, a player messaged me on discord about it and I though it was an interesting watch. I see so many people just dismiss Hivers because they do not fit in the cookie cutter mold gameplay and label them OP. I found it refreshing to see someone figure out their weaknesses and come up with tactics to address them.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: vorpal+5 on January 30, 2024, 08:39:35 AM
You can be proud of you! Many players definitely like the challenge the Swarm gives.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starsector/comments/1aemxl3/well_well_well_if_it_isnt_the_consequences_of_my/
Title: Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.10 - 11/01/23
Post by: Dazs on January 30, 2024, 09:12:58 AM
You can be proud of you! Many players definitely like the challenge the Swarm gives.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starsector/comments/1aemxl3/well_well_well_if_it_isnt_the_consequences_of_my/
Love to hate them is the best compliment a player can give. Thank you for sharing this it made my day! :)

Suffer not the Alien to Live. Purge the Xeno scum, let none survive!
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on February 03, 2024, 09:38:34 AM
v1.11 Released Today - Save compatible with v1.10
   -Increased the max flux by 50 and flux regen by 100 on the Princess - Noticed it was struggling to maintain fire while watching Butter Baronet's videos
   -Increased the range of the Ommatidia to 200 - Though mainly a credit reward trophy weapon it was not working on some ships due to boundary lines
   -Renamed the Replacement Ships Zip to the current mod version (1.11) - Sorry for any confusion, I missed that last time in 1.10
   -Updated to 0.97a

Get them bad bugs!
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Demiurge on February 19, 2024, 04:29:26 AM
Any chance we can get some options for finetuning the mod in settings? Nex and a bunch of other mods now use the ingame interface for settings and it's really nice to be able to do that without having to go into the config files in the mod directory.

On that note as well do you have plans to make more options available? I really like the mod as a concept but it's been sort of a chore to play with because the Hivers are so aggressive from the get-go and any game with them enabled basically revolves entirely around them and their invasions. I use Nex with the option that makes it so markets present at game start can't be invaded, this makes the Hive fairly passive early on, right up until I build my first colony. Then there is never a point where a Hiver fleet isn't on its way to raid, invade or bombard my colonies.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: AmeliaWatson on February 19, 2024, 07:32:17 AM
I love this mod but kinda wish there was a way to have them ramp up their aggressiveness I normally play low powered stuff with Legio as the "main boss" and Hivers were a good way to harass them but I tried without Legio and the galaxy became food a bit too fast.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on February 19, 2024, 08:49:42 AM
Any chance we can get some options for finetuning the mod in settings? Nex and a bunch of other mods now use the ingame interface for settings and it's really nice to be able to do that without having to go into the config files in the mod directory.
I am not that skilled in Java so I do not think I can do that own my own. I can look into Lunalib and see how it integrates with mods and offers the ability to modify mod files. I am unsure if that is the answer but I will try there first.
On that note as well do you have plans to make more options available? I really like the mod as a concept but it's been sort of a chore to play with because the Hivers are so aggressive from the get-go and any game with them enabled basically revolves entirely around them and their invasions. I use Nex with the option that makes it so markets present at game start can't be invaded, this makes the Hive fairly passive early on, right up until I build my first colony. Then there is never a point where a Hiver fleet isn't on its way to raid, invade or bombard my colonies.
I appreciate your point and agree to an extent. Using that Nex option does give the player breathing room to build up a fleet and credits to start a colony. There are already threats in the game that you can engage with at your leisure. However the point of this mod is to present a growing threat that the player has to deal with eventually before it becomes too big to handle. I made it for a Nexerelin game the has several mod factions installed. Balance wise, I'd say at least 4-5 should be enough to slow them down as they will be hated by them and busy fighting them rather than you.

I love this mod but kinda wish there was a way to have them ramp up their aggressiveness I normally play low powered stuff with Legio as the "main boss" and Hivers were a good way to harass them but I tried without Legio and the galaxy became food a bit too fast.
That is nice to hear thank you for the kind word. Now here I think we have the opposite request. Best I can say is what I said above, I can look into Lunalib and see how it works.

For now all I can recommend for either of you is that you go into the mod folder data\config\exerelinFactionConfg and open a file called HIVER.json with an editor. If you do not have one you can download notepad++ it is free and easy to use and automatically recognizes Java code.

Here are a couple ways to manually modify the mod:

Once you have that file open and ready for editing, navigate to line 21 "invasionPointMult":1.25 and lower the number to lessen their invasion fleets. If set to 0 it will disable their invasions all together.

Line 58 "colonyExpeditionChance":1.75 determines their chance to sending a colony mission. Lower it and they will be less likely to be picked by Nexerelin to start a colony.

You can also open data\world\factions and open HIVER.faction the same way:
At lines 259-261 the composition of their fleets are set to max so lower those 5's and it will effect the strength of their fleets and officers.
At line 264 "aggression":5, determines how aggressive the faction will be in invasions and expansion and 5 is the maximum. Lower that and they will be less aggressive.
At line 327 "canBombard":true, enables their ability to saturation bomb, set that to false and they will no longer.

There are other things that can be changed but these are the most impactful. If you feel unsure doing these changes will crash the game if you make a mistake, either make backups for those files first or you could just reinstall the mod. I know this isn't exactly what either of you are asking for but it is the best I can do now before I go into a deep dive and try to figure out a better way. I have a pending request to make some changes to CJHM but once I am done that I'll put this on the to-do list. No ETA on that because that is new territory for me and I have no idea if Lunalib will even address your concerns.

Sorry I could not give a better answer but I am a bear of little brain. :(
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: bibigun23 on February 20, 2024, 02:47:02 AM
Sorry I could not give a better answer but I am a bear of little brain. :(

Hey there Dazs. Your "little brain" as you call it made an awesome endgame experience of epic proportions lol..
 After watching various youtubers playing against the hive made me reinstall the game just to have a blast with the swarm. Sadly i stiil need to wait for some mods to update for a legit playthrough :/.. Originaly i stopped playing when i run out of things to do and everything felt too "domesticated" in my runs (the fact that mods kept getting stricktly balanced for vanilla runs also soured me a bit :p).
...Sooo A big THANK YOU for modding this fine game is a must.

  On the point now.
It might be nice if you could create a main menu in options menu like other mods and have those lines/parameters you mentioned as sliders there (for difficulty options). Adding an option for the swarm to appear after vanilla library/main campaign quests are finished would also be a very welcoming gift for new players. Still it's fine like that too. We common players getting spoiled big times with the ammount of content and features modders bring anyways.

PS: If you are planning to expand this mod an interesting idea would be making a parasitic core of shorts like ai cores.
Aside from the possibility of piloting stolen ships the core may have infinite possibilities to expand on.

 
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on February 20, 2024, 05:05:28 AM
Sorry I could not give a better answer but I am a bear of little brain. :(

Hey there Dazs. Your "little brain" as you call it made an awesome endgame experience of epic proportions lol..
Heh thank you, I appreciate that. I guess what I mean by that is my creativity and ideas outstrip my ability to bring them to fruition. There are so many aspects to my mods that I would love to add but I have failed several times due to my lack of skill/learning.
After watching various youtubers playing against the hive made me reinstall the game just to have a blast with the swarm.
I have caught one or two streamers featuring Hiver Swarm, which is your favorite?
Sadly i stiil need to wait for some mods to update for a legit playthrough :/..
I am most recently saddened that Vayra and Tartiflette have left the scene. I've been playing this game for years and I have seen mod makers that I have enjoyed just stop posting and every time I am a little saddened. There are so many I could list but this reply is going to be TLDR as it is so I'll refrain from the eyeball strain :)
Originaly i stopped playing when i run out of things to do and everything felt too "domesticated" in my runs (the fact that mods kept getting stricktly balanced for vanilla runs also soured me a bit :p).
...Sooo A big THANK YOU for modding this fine game is a must.
OMG I have to give you a "big THANK YOU" in return for that. I get so much trolling on discord about how my mods aren't balanced from players who just want what other mods already offer it is so welcome to get a nice comment.  ;D
  On the point now.
It might be nice if you could create a main menu in options menu like other mods and have those lines/parameters you mentioned as sliders there (for difficulty options). Adding an option for the swarm to appear after vanilla library/main campaign quests are finished would also be a very welcoming gift for new players. Still it's fine like that too. We common players getting spoiled big times with the ammount of content and features modders bring anyways.
Oh I agree and I do plan to try this weekend when I have time to dedicate to it but I fear it may be beyond me. Once bitten twice shy and all that. Still I will give it a good faith effort and already have 6 hours blocked off to dedicate to it.
PS: If you are planning to expand this mod an interesting idea would be making a parasitic core of shorts like ai cores.
Aside from the possibility of piloting stolen ships the core may have infinite possibilities to expand on.
Interesting idea that I had not considered. I do have an option to make them playable built into the mod but that would streamline it a bit. It's a big picture idea and no eta on that one but it's on the to-try list.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the mod, I really needed a cheer-up today and this did the trick.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: bibigun23 on February 20, 2024, 06:51:39 AM
Quote
I have caught one or two streamers featuring Hiver Swarm, which is your favorite?

Put aside random videos and lores i like to watch long episodic playthroughs and the most prominent ones that highlight the swarm fights are from Butter Baronet (my current favorite) and Asher games. there are also some older series like Notscoop's and Fen Muir's that have them in their playthroughs but they are earlier versions and not as impactful as the 2 aformentioned.

 About Varya's sector.. Might as well be the biggest loss indeed since besides the content of the mod many crossmod features got hit hard in other mods as well. I miss mostly utility mods and super weapons arsenal the same way. Also waiting to see about the Star Wars mod for the huge op ships and weapons.. Still hoping on that one :) .

 As for the balance thing.. Ii my opinion what's the point modding the game, adding new factions ect if not to upset the accustomed boring balanced state of a game through time? Is it Just cosmetic?

 If the mod works fine and make people squirm then you are doing something sinfully right   8) ..So jokes on them !! Cheers !!
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on February 20, 2024, 09:10:34 AM
OOO a quick follow up - prepare for more TLDR!
Put aside random videos and lores i like to watch long episodic playthroughs and the most prominent ones that highlight the swarm fights are from Butter Baronet (my current favorite) and Asher games. there are also some older series like Notscoop's and Fen Muir's that have them in their playthroughs but they are earlier versions and not as impactful as the 2 aformentioned.
A player on discord messaged me directly about Butter Baronet's videos and I liked them so much I have featured them on this forum. I'll look into Asher games, thank you for the recommendation. I learn so much watching or reading about how people interact with my my mods. I am just an old guy that really enjoys this game. I want to support it so the more the word gets out, the more potential cash flow Fractal Softworks can earn to put toward a released date and beyond.
About Varya's sector.. Might as well be the biggest loss indeed since besides the content of the mod many crossmod features got hit hard in other mods as well.
I am currently having that issue with JYD. I put a lot of work in making a lore that Dogstar was taken over by the independents from pirates and added Vayra bounties to hunt them down with increasing difficulty. Now with that mod depreciated, magiclib is sort of supporting them but I need to integrate it there to ensure they work correctly because currently they are all wonky.
I miss mostly utility mods and super weapons arsenal the same way. Also waiting to see about the Star Wars mod for the huge op ships and weapons.. Still hoping on that one :) .
I am a bit concerned how slow to update some of the mods have been. In past updates you would generally see all major mods updated within the week.
As for the balance thing.. Ii my opinion what's the point modding the game, adding new factions ect if not to upset the accustomed boring balanced state of a game through time? Is it Just cosmetic?
Well there is something to be said for aesthetics, some players just want cooler looking ships than what vanilla offers and I respect that. I try to offer that with my poor graphics skills but that is not the focus. I want to offer things that others do not, aspects of the game I find there to be a need to fill. For example: the game has mining weapons and makes references to miners but there is no mining in the game, what the what? Exerelin/Nexerelin to the rescue! Realizing I could add content to this game was one of my inspirations to make mods. TBH I make my mods for my personal enjoyment and share them with the hope that a few players find something enjoyable about them. 
If the mod works fine and make people squirm then you are doing something sinfully right   8) ..So jokes on them !! Cheers !!
Lol indeed. I tend to judge things and people not on who likes them but on what kind of person does not like them :)
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on February 24, 2024, 04:25:46 PM
@AmeliaWatson @Demiurge - My apologies but I have spent hours trying to integrate Lunalib into the mod but I was unsuccessful. If anyone wants to give it a try, I'd welcome the help. I agree with them that it would be much easier on the players if all those manual optionals I have listed on the forum and in the README were instead automated with an in game Lunalib sliding system. Problem is, I suffer from bad brain and even though there is a wiki and a template I just cannot wrap my head around it. Sorry all.
 
@All -I added instructions on the forum OP on how to manually adjust the difficulty of the Hivers which is under spoilers in the section labeled, "The mod comes with several optional files that can be enabled before the start of a new game" Also, I plan to add it to the imbedded README found in the ZIP in the next update.

Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Joejoemyo on February 25, 2024, 09:04:55 AM
I'm going to get this out of the way so this doesn't feel like a list of complaints: AWESOME MOD!!
The ship designs are absolutely beautiful, and I love the idea of a less static threat than the [REDACTED]. Bringing a heavily themed faction into the game is also great.

However, in the current state, I feel some issues really hold the mod back.
   I'll start with the minor: I've seen smuggler fleets using Hiver ships, specifically ones transporting ship hulls. I'm not sure if that's intentional behavior, or if those were disabled and taken in combat, but it feels a little weird in terms of lore/balance/immersion. Hiver planets show up in the market data of items, leading to the player being able to pinpoint them at the start of the game. I think this is very much known, and you probably haven't found a workaround, as it's written into the faction lore (love that). My modding experience is very limited, but you might be able to set limits on their markets so that they never have the highest or lowest price for items. All of that is a bit moot though, as you can see their systems on the map. I'm assuming there's a way to hide these, as pather and pirate systems outside the core sector are hidden from the player, and it would go a long way to make the discovery of the hive feel more natural.
   Beyond that is the biggest problem: The invasions. I have no problem with the Hive threatening the core sector or being difficult to fight, that's part of their appeal to me, but with the default Nexerelin settings they start a full-scale invasion of the core sector 90 days after game start, which really doesn't seem to fit with their lore. I'm not sure if it's their fleet doctrine, their insane markets giving them more invasion strength, bad luck, or some combination of these, but I have not actually seen them lose an invasion. I've seen these exact planets fend off [REDACTED] attacks in previous playthroughs, which doesn't fit with the strength level you imply/intend. Part of the problem is definitely Nexerelin's AI, as even though every single faction has lost planets to the Hive they are still coalition warring themselves (mount-and-blade-level tactics). As it is, every single planet that can be invaded (no story protection) looks to be doomed with the default NEX/Hive settings. It's very difficult to balance around a variety of play styles and skill levels, but it feels like the player has to speedrun a large fleet and spearhead the defense on every front to prevent the sector from becoming the universe's largest ant infestation. It holds the entire experience back significantly. {EDIT: I've seen your past comment that the Hive shouldn't be something the player can choose when to fight, and I completely agree. However as it is, it feels like a "game ender" event gets plopped down from game start, which doesn't fit with the Hive being a scaling midgame threat that will eventually be a problem, but not for a while.}
   I really don't know how to fix this, as I said my modding experience is very limited, but I have a few loose concepts that could help if added. The Hive could have a timer before beginning attacks/expansion to allow the player to get established. The Hive could slowly expand and not attack until its planets reach closer to the core systems. Hive markets could be adjusted to lower the frequency of attacks. The strength/generation of attack fleets could be adjusted to give AI planets a better chance at surviving them. If you can improve the balancing/difficulty curve of the hive I think it could bring this mod close to the quality of the base game.
   The only issue I have besides the above is that the borders on the ships have some sort of artifacting that detracts from their incredible visual style. {EDIT2: I can't tell if this is a result of a weird transparency issue, snipping mistakes, image compression, or hard edges in the ship design. It looks like the vanilla ships use some sort of edge shading to help with this. Not sure - I'm not an artist} Keep up the great work, and I hope you find solutions to these problems.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on February 25, 2024, 10:35:10 AM
I'm going to get this out of the way so this doesn't feel like a list of complaints: AWESOME MOD!!
The ship designs are absolutely beautiful, and I love the idea of a less static threat than the [REDACTED]. Bringing a heavily themed faction into the game is also great.
First off, thank you for taking the time to give feedback, I do not consider "complaints" a negative but rather someone who likes the mod enough to offer an opinion on how it could be better. Secondly, thank you for the kind words. :)
However, in the current state, I feel some issues really hold the mod back.
   I'll start with the minor: I've seen smuggler fleets using Hiver ships, specifically ones transporting ship hulls. I'm not sure if that's intentional behavior, or if those were disabled and taken in combat, but it feels a little weird in terms of lore/balance/immersion.
The mod comes with them as recoverable as that is the majority opinion on the matter based on feedback I have gotten over the years. The side effect of that is not only are they recoverable by the player but also by the NPC. That is a game mechanic that I cannot really effect to my knowledge. I do agree with your lore comment since they are an alien species that use a different construction technique it would track that Corvus humans would struggle to adapt the tech to their needs which is why I added an optional file in the mod that makes Hiver ships unrecoverable. The instructions are in a file called README in the mod and also on the first page of the forum. If enabled neither the player nor the NPC can recover their hulls.
Hiver planets show up in the market data of items, leading to the player being able to pinpoint them at the start of the game. I think this is very much known, and you probably haven't found a workaround, as it's written into the faction lore (love that).
Oh I have tried several ways to hide their markets but each time it tanked their economy and gutted their ability to form fleets. I did reach out to the author of Stelnet to see if there was a way using that mod and I was told they would look into adding it but the mod has not been updated in quite some time.
My modding experience is very limited, but you might be able to set limits on their markets so that they never have the highest or lowest price for items.
What causes that is that I had to set them up as an insular economy since they hate and are hated by everyone they can only trade with themselves. Their systems have more planets than standard and thus more industry capacity than the norm. By having to supply all the resources for heavy industry there are overages in some items, mainly in the feeder commodities like ore. They require all this industry because it is the in-game economy of a faction that supports their fleets and they need multiple fleets to defend their systems from attacks, colonize other systems and send out strong invasion fleets to overcome the obstacles of Pirates and Remnant Odro fleets that attack them on their long journey to reach the core.
All of that is a bit moot though, as you can see their systems on the map. I'm assuming there's a way to hide these, as pather and pirate systems outside the core sector are hidden from the player, and it would go a long way to make the discovery of the hive feel more natural.
Another limitation of the game I have to abide by. Nexerelin is a required mod for HIVER because that is needed to enable invasions and colonization fleets. The way Nex does that is it only has playable factions able to form those invasion and colony fleets. They are technically a playable faction and I do have instructions to do that in the README. However NEX does allow for a "playable" faction to also not be played by the human player so that is how they are able to use the NEX features but not be playable. Now that may have been TLDR but because of that workaround their planets show up on the map because by giving them a faction listing, the base game puts them on the map. Bottom line Alex has stated multiple times he wants Starsector to be an exploration game. NEX turns the game into a 4x game and I am essentially caught between the game mechanics of both ideas and did my best.
   Beyond that is the biggest problem: The invasions. I have no problem with the Hive threatening the core sector or being difficult to fight, that's part of their appeal to me, but with the default Nexerelin settings they start a full-scale invasion of the core sector 90 days after game start, which really doesn't seem to fit with their lore. I'm not sure if it's their fleet doctrine, their insane markets giving them more invasion strength, bad luck, or some combination of these, but I have not actually seen them lose an invasion. I've seen these exact planets fend off [REDACTED] attacks in previous playthroughs, which doesn't fit with the strength level you imply/intend. Part of the problem is definitely Nexerelin's AI, as even though every single faction has lost planets to the Hive they are still coalition warring themselves (mount-and-blade-level tactics). As it is, every single planet that can be invaded (no story protection) looks to be doomed with the default NEX/Hive settings. It's very difficult to balance around a variety of play styles and skill levels, but it feels like the player has to speedrun a large fleet and spearhead the defense on every front to prevent the sector from becoming the universe's largest ant infestation. It holds the entire experience back significantly. {EDIT: I've seen your past comment that the Hive shouldn't be something the player can choose when to fight, and I completely agree. However as it is, it feels like a "game ender" event gets plopped down from game start, which doesn't fit with the Hive being a scaling midgame threat that will eventually be a problem, but not for a while.}
Well there is an option when you use NEX at the start of the game when you are making your character to delay invasions until your first colony is built. This option turns off the invasion mechanic and I recommend that setting to give the player some breathing room to build up a solid fleet and enough credits to jumpstart their first colony.
   I really don't know how to fix this, as I said my modding experience is very limited, but I have a few loose concepts that could help if added. The Hive could have a timer before beginning attacks/expansion to allow the player to get established. The Hive could slowly expand and not attack until its planets reach closer to the core systems. Hive markets could be adjusted to lower the frequency of attacks. The strength/generation of attack fleets could be adjusted to give AI planets a better chance at surviving them. If you can improve the balancing/difficulty curve of the hive I think it could bring this mod close to the quality of the base game.
The issue mainly stems from them having no friends in the game. They are constantly attacked by the NPC factions and the more mod factions they player has installed, the slower they expand. I would recommend having at least 4-5 mod factions installed, any that you like should suffice but some do perform vs Hivers more than others. I have been asked a couple times to make a toned down version of the mod for players who do not want to deal with them but want them in the game. I am a little backed up on mod requests ATM but making that alternate toned version is still on my to-do list. I did recently include instructions on the main forum page on how you can manually adjust the difficulty level of the mod so I would recommend reading that over in the mean time.
   The only issue I have besides the above is that the borders on the ships have some sort of artifacting that detracts from their incredible visual style. {EDIT2: I can't tell if this is a result of a weird transparency issue, snipping mistakes, image compression, or hard edges in the ship design. It looks like the vanilla ships use some sort of edge shading to help with this. Not sure - I'm not an artist} Keep up the great work, and I hope you find solutions to these problems.
Is that all the ships or only certain ones, if you could identify which ones it would help. I can certainly go over the details of the images and see if I notice any loose artifacts but it would be better to know which are the worst.

I appreciate you taking the time to share your opinion. I rely on players letting know their thoughts so I can make the mod as best as it can be. As I stated earlier, I have requests for CFT, JYD and CJHM that are on my plate but I will certainly look over your comments (as well as any further ones) and use them as a temple for a changelog for HIVER once I am caught up.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: 5ColouredWalker on February 25, 2024, 04:13:42 PM
*Unlurks*
   Beyond that is the biggest problem: The invasions. I have no problem with the Hive threatening the core sector or being difficult to fight, that's part of their appeal to me, but with the default Nexerelin settings they start a full-scale invasion of the core sector 90 days after game start, which really doesn't seem to fit with their lore. I'm not sure if it's their fleet doctrine, their insane markets giving them more invasion strength, bad luck, or some combination of these, but I have not actually seen them lose an invasion. I've seen these exact planets fend off [REDACTED] attacks in previous playthroughs, which doesn't fit with the strength level you imply/intend. Part of the problem is definitely Nexerelin's AI, as even though every single faction has lost planets to the Hive they are still coalition warring themselves (mount-and-blade-level tactics). As it is, every single planet that can be invaded (no story protection) looks to be doomed with the default NEX/Hive settings. It's very difficult to balance around a variety of play styles and skill levels, but it feels like the player has to speedrun a large fleet and spearhead the defense on every front to prevent the sector from becoming the universe's largest ant infestation. It holds the entire experience back significantly. {EDIT: I've seen your past comment that the Hive shouldn't be something the player can choose when to fight, and I completely agree. However as it is, it feels like a "game ender" event gets plopped down from game start, which doesn't fit with the Hive being a scaling midgame threat that will eventually be a problem, but not for a while.}

 I really don't know how to fix this, as I said my modding experience is very limited, but I have a few loose concepts that could help if added. The Hive could have a timer before beginning attacks/expansion to allow the player to get established.
Well there is an option when you use NEX at the start of the game when you are making your character to delay invasions until your first colony is built. This option turns off the invasion mechanic and I recommend that setting to give the player some breathing room to build up a solid fleet and enough credits to jumpstart their first colony.

I'll add that you can also adjust the Day limit, if instead of being limited to when you feel built up enough to start a colony, you can have a timer to work against, and give you breathing room to have the colony set up if you don't lolygag like me.
In the off chance you don't know how to access the in-game mod menu, it's F2 (Assuming you have that mod installed too, but I think it's a dependency now.), and settings can be tweaked on the fly.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on February 25, 2024, 05:06:16 PM
*Unlurks*
Lurker no lurking! :)
I'll add that you can also adjust the Day limit, if instead of being limited to when you feel built up enough to start a colony, you can have a timer to work against, and give you breathing room to have the colony set up if you don't lolygag like me.
In the off chance you don't know how to access the in-game mod menu, it's F2 (Assuming you have that mod installed too, but I think it's a dependency now.), and settings can be tweaked on the fly.
Good point that I neglected to point out thank you. In game, asuming you have Lunalib, press f2 and scroll down to the Nexerelin tab. Now press the "fleets and Battles" tab at the top.
There a few options that effect invasions:
The one that I mentioned is "Prevent invasions until the first player colony".
The one that my friend 5ColouredWalker is referring to is "Invasion grace period" which is defaulted to 90 and can be increased up to 1,825 days. "Invasion size mult" multiplies the number that faction author has set in their Nexerelin settings and is set to 1 as default which uses w/e the faction files has. You can set this all the way down to .01 and that will greatly decrease invasions.
"Allow NPC saturation bombardment" which is set to True can be set to False which will disable the feature all together.
"Enable vengeance fleets" is set to 2 (always) can be lowered to Starfarer mode only or turned off altogether. Turning it off will disable NPC fleets being dispatched after you if you perform an atrocity (Like saturation bombing).

Keep in mind these setting will effect all factions but it is a good way to pull the Hiver's teeth.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Joejoemyo on February 26, 2024, 06:54:41 PM
Is that all the ships or only certain ones, if you could identify which ones it would help. I can certainly go over the details of the images and see if I notice any loose artifacts but it would be better to know which are the worst.
Haven't run into the problematic ships again, I'll make note of which ones if I see them.

Two more things I noticed:

In Data/Hulls/unrecoverable_ship_data several of the ships are missing the two no_drop and restricted tags, which I think might make them drop in game. They DO have the unboardable HINT status, which might do the same thing - I'm not sure.

There is no alternative wing_data.csv in the same folder, which I think is needed for players who don't want to be able to loot or buy Hiver fighters. Even after changing the other files around, I still find and can buy the fighter wings. If it's as simple as adding no_bp_drop, restricted, no_drop_salvage, no_dealer, no_sell or some selection of these to each fighter's tags in the wing_data, that would probably be easy enough to add to the instructions for people to paste in.
EDIT: I think adding that mess of tags on has worked, I'll need to check more markets though
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on February 27, 2024, 12:03:47 AM
Is that all the ships or only certain ones, if you could identify which ones it would help. I can certainly go over the details of the images and see if I notice any loose artifacts but it would be better to know which are the worst.
Haven't run into the problematic ships again, I'll make note of which ones if I see them.
That's fine, they do have alien names and even I have to think twice about them when I reference them :) I'll give them all a once over on my end to see if I notice anything, I appreciate the follow up.
Two more things I noticed:

In Data/Hulls/unrecoverable_ship_data several of the ships are missing the two no_drop and restricted tags, which I think might make them drop in game. They DO have the unboardable HINT status, which might do the same thing - I'm not sure.
It has been awhile since I did that I am unsure myself.  As long as it does not crash the game there is no real harm adding them. I can certainly try adding those tags and see if it works.
There is no alternative wing_data.csv in the same folder, which I think is needed for players who don't want to be able to loot or buy Hiver fighters. Even after changing the other files around, I still find and can buy the fighter wings. If it's as simple as adding no_bp_drop, restricted, no_drop_salvage, no_dealer, no_sell or some selection of these to each fighter's tags in the wing_data, that would probably be easy enough to add to the instructions for people to paste in.
EDIT: I think adding that mess of tags on has worked, I'll need to check more markets though
I am a bit embarrassed that it had not even occurred to me to make an alternate wings file. I'll add one in the next update, thank you for this.

I appreciate the additional comments, they really highlight things I am blind to like the wings. I am a little backlogged on mod updates so I cannot give an accurate ETA but I will release an update for HIVER that addresses your (and any other incoming) observations. I am currently working on a balance pass for CFT which I plan to have done by the weekend and have requests for JYD and CJHM but neither of those are as critical as fixing an oopsie on my end so HIVER advanced to the next in line.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: bibigun23 on February 27, 2024, 04:19:00 AM
Hoho  :o.. Dazs at it on mad schedules  ::). I just spamming to say hi  ;D
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on February 27, 2024, 04:43:11 AM
Hoho  :o.. Dazs at it on mad schedules  ::). I just spamming to say hi  ;D
And runnin' runnin'
And runnin' runnin'
And runnin' runnin'
:)
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on February 27, 2024, 01:43:56 PM
Rarr did it, that crazy streamer finally took on the Hivers!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdxPpUwd-bQ

Good times, good times.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Joejoemyo on February 28, 2024, 08:49:51 PM
Another bug - This one really confuses me. After winning a battle with a hiver fleet I looted them, which was normal. However when I scavenged their debris field it contained a Svrerresh Launcher, even though I am using the alternative weapon_data.csv . Looking at the file, it seems like it has all the tags that should stop it from dropping as loot, so I'm not sure what is causing this.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on February 29, 2024, 01:16:13 AM
Another bug - This one really confuses me. After winning a battle with a hiver fleet I looted them, which was normal. However when I scavenged their debris field it contained a Svrerresh Launcher, even though I am using the alternative weapon_data.csv . Looking at the file, it seems like it has all the tags that should stop it from dropping as loot, so I'm not sure what is causing this.
Hello there, thank you for reporting this. That is a puzzler, I'll certainly take a look at the associated files and see what may be the issue. How many battles from them have you looted before this happened? I just finished an update for CFT and HIVER is next in line so I'll add this to the list. 
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Zoppy on March 04, 2024, 08:38:11 AM
I enjoy the mod. I don't have a problem fighting them. Capitals and heavy cruisers with long range burst damage seems to be the cure. Fleets focused on a lot of "normal" destroyers and frigates seems to be too bugged down by the enemy fighter wings, before they are destroyed by the main fleet. There are probably exceptions and I'm probably an idiot too, but that was my experience.

The problem I sort of have is with the hiver weapons. They are too darn powerful. No one is forcing me to use them, I understand that. Every other energy weapon is however inferior by a mile. I'd rather the weapons by less flux effecient and the hiver ships maybe having a little better flux dissipation. The 20 cost medium energy weapon almost has the firepower of a plasma cannon, but with a quarter of its flux/second. The hyper-exiters are also crazy broken albeit not as flux effecient (their dps is insane for a small energy weapon). Try a shield shunted mantis (and whatever other ship mods you feel like using) loaded with those, the 20 medium cost energy weapons, and the long range 22 cost large weapon. Which is also crazy powerful and incredibly flux efficient. It burps out its orange lasers and purple plasma balls and the Paragon in the sim is dead in the blink of an eye.

I don't quite understand, why they have to be that flux effecient and damaging.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 04, 2024, 10:30:00 AM
I enjoy the mod. I don't have a problem fighting them. Capitals and heavy cruisers with long range burst damage seems to be the cure. Fleets focused on a lot of "normal" destroyers and frigates seems to be too bugged down by the enemy fighter wings, before they are destroyed by the main fleet. There are probably exceptions and I'm probably an idiot too, but that was my experience.
Thank you for the kind words and I am happy to hear you are enjoying the mod. Oh no need to put yourself down like that, your strategy is a solid one. Smaller ships do struggle with Hivers with their lack of pd mounts or interceptor wings to counter the Hiver strategy but that is intended. They are a mid to end game faction and early game wolfpack tactics will struggle against them.
The problem I sort of have is with the hiver weapons. They are too darn powerful. No one is forcing me to use them, I understand that. Every other energy weapon is however inferior by a mile. I'd rather the weapons by less flux effecient and the hiver ships maybe having a little better flux dissipation. The 20 cost medium energy weapon almost has the firepower of a plasma cannon, but with a quarter of its flux/second. The hyper-exiters are also crazy broken albeit not as flux effecient (their dps is insane for a small energy weapon). Try a shield shunted mantis (and whatever other ship mods you feel like using) loaded with those, the 20 medium cost energy weapons, and the long range 22 cost large weapon. Which is also crazy powerful and incredibly flux efficient. It burps out its orange lasers and purple plasma balls and the Paragon in the sim is dead in the blink of an eye.
The Hiver ships paired with their weapons are a set piece and intended to work together. I agree their weapons can be extremely powerful if a player uses them on non-hiver ships. But that is a choice that is up to the player, whether to use them or not. I did add instructions on how to make the ships and or weapons not drop as loot for players that did want the temptation to use the Hiver ships, weapons or both. It is a balance act, I can either make the ships or the weapons flux efficient. The issue with making the ships more flux efficient is that does not only effect weapon use but also shield capacity and regen which they rely on for their defense. I made the weapons more OP because you can always use vanilla weapons on a captured Hiver ship to tone it down but the but Hivers will only use Hiver weapons.
I don't quite understand, why they have to be that flux effecient and damaging.
Hivers need to be OP in some way as they have an entire sector to fight and the options I have to make them easier to fight revolves around the amount of ships they produce. For example, most of the ways to make them easier is by reducing their invasion fleets or adding more faction mods to counter them before they get to the player. If I buff the ships and weaken the weapons it would not be as impactful to adjust the mod since the invasion fleets are the same size, just less of them.

This is a single player game so I try to appeal to a wide range of playstyles. Some players want their weapons OP so they can use them to pew-pew using vanilla ship aesthetic since they do not want to use bug ships. Others want no part of having alien technology in their fleet and oh well I could on, but you get the gist. I do not want to force my vision for them (the base mod with no edits) on the player base. I guess the bottom line is I am not that good a programmer to be able to change every ship and weapon to give them parity while keeping them OP in some way to make them a threat. The best I can do is give several instructions on how to disable parts of the mod for the players who do not want certain aspects.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Shogouki on March 04, 2024, 11:53:48 AM
I apologize if this has been asked before but I was curious if it was possible to set a timer so that the Hivers stay dormant for a set amount of time upon game start, or perhaps a setting like Nexerelin has for preventing faction colony expeditions until the player founds a colony, so that they don't start razing the sector right off the bat?
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 04, 2024, 02:39:08 PM
I apologize if this has been asked before but I was curious if it was possible to set a timer so that the Hivers stay dormant for a set amount of time upon game start, or perhaps a setting like Nexerelin has for preventing faction colony expeditions until the player founds a colony, so that they don't start razing the sector right off the bat?
No need to apologize, I welcome questions and comments. It has been asked before and I have looked into it but did not find a way to do it for an individual faction. As you have already pointed out, NEX has an option that will delay them but it will also delay all factions so it is not ideal. Another way is to install more faction mods that will attack them and slow them down but again, not ideal.

I plan to look into it again eventually but for now, I have several ways to manually tone them down posted on this forum page OP. You can find them under spoiler tags below the bolded "The mod comes with several optional files that can be enabled before the start of a new game ". They are under that spoiler tag with the heading "Instructions to manually adjust the difficulty level of the mod" also under spoiler tags.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Zoppy on March 05, 2024, 11:14:39 AM
Thank you for the fine reply. I wasn't quite sure for the reasons. As I read the pages, it was noted, how it was meant to be a mid-game threat. So it got me even more curious about the weapons.

The mod is wonderful and you do a good job.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 05, 2024, 03:29:59 PM
Thank you for the fine reply. I wasn't quite sure for the reasons. As I read the pages, it was noted, how it was meant to be a mid-game threat. So it got me even more curious about the weapons.
Thank you for understanding. I am always open to comments and do try to accommodate requests if it is with the vision of the mod but I am no Java programmer. I look at the wiki and discord # and can understand about 1 in 10 of what is written. :) I am going to tap out a requested update for Ore Refinery soon and JYD has some requests but I can fit in a Hiver lookover before doing yet another CFT update that is also in the queue.
The mod is wonderful and you do a good job.
That is so nice to hear, I appreciate that. I had a vision for it when I started the mod and over the years it is getting closer with the help of suggestions and comments like yours.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Warnoise on March 08, 2024, 12:39:08 AM
How do you guys deal with their mass fighters? Not only are they insanely tanky, they also replenish very fast
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 08, 2024, 01:08:18 AM
How do you guys deal with their mass fighters? Not only are they insanely tanky, they also replenish very fast
Good morning,
Personally I go with interceptors and PD weapons in my small mounts. They are a fighter centric faction and it is their most offensive tactic so equip your ships to handle that and they are less of a threat. For example, an Odyssey with 1k long range beams (since hiver weapons have a range of 900) and two interceptors is very effective as beams will engage fighters even if they are not PD and it is fast enough to say out of range.

Overall the best strategy against them is to not ignore them. I have enjoyed reading full on conversations on Reddit's r/starsector from players discussing how to handle them. I posted one by Candelestine a while back on this forum's OP, it is under "Peek here for spoilers on their tactics", that I thought was a good start. There are several tactics players have come up with there so I would recommend checking Reddit for ideas.

I hope that helps, I do hope you are enjoying the mod overall.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Shogouki on March 08, 2024, 01:53:43 PM
How do you guys deal with their mass fighters? Not only are they insanely tanky, they also replenish very fast

Thr Prv faction mod has a pair of beam weapons that create fragmentation damage anomalies on hits which are AMAZING for mass fighter annihilation.  The medium mount one functions like a standard beam weapon, more or less, that creates the anomalies on impact.  The large mount version, however, fires in a sweeping arc creating anomalies where the beam ends regardless of whether or not it hits something.  On top of that it can be fired at any location up to max range to create a swath of anomalies wherever you want without having to strike an object with the beam.  These two weapons (as well as the missile variant) can be augmented with the hullmod 4D Lensing which increases anomaly size, damage and duration.  If you have Prv installed I highly recommend trying those two weapons.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 08, 2024, 02:27:16 PM
How do you guys deal with their mass fighters? Not only are they insanely tanky, they also replenish very fast

Thr Prv faction mod has a pair of beam weapons that create fragmentation damage anomalies on hits which are AMAZING for mass fighter annihilation.  The medium mount one functions like a standard beam weapon, more or less, that creates the anomalies on impact.  The large mount version, however, fires in a sweeping arc creating anomalies where the beam ends regardless of whether or not it hits something.  On top of that it can be fired at any location up to max range to create a swath of anomalies wherever you want without having to strike an object with the beam.  These two weapons (as well as the missile variant) can be augmented with the hullmod 4D Lensing which increases anomaly size, damage and duration.  If you have Prv installed I highly recommend trying those two weapons.

OoOooo thank you for weighing in. I use Prv but has not considered that nor seen it recommended. I'll have to try that strategy out when I am done updating my mods and can get back to playing :)
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Brainwright on March 08, 2024, 04:27:40 PM
Honestly, the best advice I can give for dealing with fighters is to largely ignore small weapon mounts and start finding ways to fit medium and even large anti-fighter weapons.  Capital ships may be able to use small mounts as effective PD, but without the capital range buffs, other ships just don't cut it.

Devastators are pretty decent HE damage and locusts do pretty good pressure if you've got some something to deal with shields and armor.  Same for Paladin PD.

And proximity mines.  Never forget proximity mines.  Those are quite nice.

Also, IPDAI hullmod is great.  Almost all the benefits of the skill without a skill point.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Shogouki on March 08, 2024, 05:26:01 PM

OoOooo thank you for weighing in. I use Prv but has not considered that nor seen it recommended. I'll have to try that strategy out when I am done updating my mods and can get back to playing :)

I've been very skeptical of most fragmentation weapons since starting to play Starsector because while they excel at tearing apart hull my bigger concerns have always been getting to the hull in the first place.  However the persistent damage that the anomalies inflict from these weapons and the fact that they can be significantly buffed by building in the 4D Lensing hullmod led me to finally try these weapons for purposes other than PD and I really like them!  Though I'm not sure I'd give the large mount version to my NPC captains as those have the potential for some extreme friendly fire incidents until seeing they get used in the simulator.  There are also a large mount missile called the Skata, I think, that fires swarms of energy damage missiles that also create those anomalies, though I'm not sure if they would be quite as effective against fighters.  Though, to be fair,  I haven't tried using them for that yet.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 08, 2024, 11:27:23 PM
Honestly, the best advice I can give for dealing with fighters is to largely ignore small weapon mounts and start finding ways to fit medium and even large anti-fighter weapons.  Capital ships may be able to use small mounts as effective PD, but without the capital range buffs, other ships just don't cut it.
In general when I go against the Hivers I have a big ole tank ship to soak that has medium and large PD weapons for the fighters mixed in with a couple HE for the hiver ships. Then I flank that one with battle cruisers on each side and the rest cruisers. Destroyers/frigates just cannot stick in, unless they are super mod ones.
Devastators are pretty decent HE damage and locusts do pretty good pressure if you've got some something to deal with shields and armor.  Same for Paladin PD.

And proximity mines.  Never forget proximity mines.  Those are quite nice.

Also, IPDAI hullmod is great.  Almost all the benefits of the skill without a skill point.
All excellent suggestions, thank you for sharing.

I've been very skeptical of most fragmentation weapons since starting to play Starsector because while they excel at tearing apart hull my bigger concerns have always been getting to the hull in the first place.
I am a fan of frag weapons personally. You'll find them in all my faction mods and heck even the Hivers have a frag beam :)
However the persistent damage that the anomalies inflict from these weapons and the fact that they can be significantly buffed by building in the 4D Lensing hullmod led me to finally try these weapons for purposes other than PD and I really like them!  Though I'm not sure I'd give the large mount version to my NPC captains as those have the potential for some extreme friendly fire incidents until seeing they get used in the simulator. 
NPC's have gotten smarter over the years and I hope it gets tighter with future patches but yea sometimes they make some random decisions that boggle the mind.
There are also a large mount missile called the Skata, I think, that fires swarms of energy damage missiles that also create those anomalies, though I'm not sure if they would be quite as effective against fighters.  Though, to be fair,  I haven't tried using them for that yet.
I had to look that one up but yea the LRM line of weapons in general have a warm place in my heart. Being a pure salvager I do not come across PRV weapons much in my game so I'd be curious of your results.

Thank you both for contributing to the correspondence. I have noticed a sharp increase in downloads after rarr "saved humanity". I am sure Warnoise is not the only player that has freshly installed the mod and thought, OMG SWARM???!!! :)
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: cdmerc on March 10, 2024, 01:51:30 AM
Not sure if it's a known issue, but at least one Hiver weapon still drops even with everything set to "unrecoverable":
https://i.imgur.com/k8OPOzx.png
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 10, 2024, 06:05:38 PM
Not sure if it's a known issue, but at least one Hiver weapon still drops even with everything set to "unrecoverable":
https://i.imgur.com/k8OPOzx.png
Hello there, thank you for the report. I am assuming you have the unrecoverable_weapon_data.csv renamed to weapon_data.csv based on your message. If that is the case please clarify as if that was done, in *should* not have happened. Either way I'll look into it for the next Hiver update.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: cdmerc on March 11, 2024, 01:14:18 AM
Not sure if it's a known issue, but at least one Hiver weapon still drops even with everything set to "unrecoverable":
https://i.imgur.com/k8OPOzx.png
Hello there, thank you for the report. I am assuming you have the unrecoverable_weapon_data.csv renamed to weapon_data.csv based on your message. If that is the case please clarify as if that was done, in *should* not have happened. Either way I'll look into it for the next Hiver update.
Yes, I did, for both weapons and hulls. And it mostly works, this and fighters were the only things I got after fighting ~300dp hiver fleet.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 11, 2024, 02:09:41 AM
Not sure if it's a known issue, but at least one Hiver weapon still drops even with everything set to "unrecoverable":
https://i.imgur.com/k8OPOzx.png
Hello there, thank you for the report. I am assuming you have the unrecoverable_weapon_data.csv renamed to weapon_data.csv based on your message. If that is the case please clarify as if that was done, in *should* not have happened. Either way I'll look into it for the next Hiver update.
Yes, I did, for both weapons and hulls. And it mostly works, this and fighters were the only things I got after fighting ~300dp hiver fleet.
Thank you for the follow up, I most likely missed a tag on that weapon but either way I'll give those files a once over when I can. I just finished a JYD update and still have TTSC and CFT to go and they have a couple more issues but I will certainly look into this for Hiver once those are done.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Shogouki on March 11, 2024, 03:06:50 AM
I honestly kind of like that they drop as I make good money selling alien biotech to factions for research!    ;D
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 11, 2024, 05:09:26 AM
I honestly kind of like that they drop as I make good money selling alien biotech to factions for research!    ;D
Well hello again Shogouki, good to hear from you!
I do see a lot of people on discord complain/brag? about how much they can make farming Hivers. The reason I have them set to be salvageable as a way to offset the losses taken when fighting them. Lore wise I figured that being alien technology, the Corvus factions would pay top dollar for research and development. I was going to initially lower the costs but I figured it would be better to give the option for people who did not want them to have them not drop.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: ThatsMyFootThanks on March 11, 2024, 07:06:20 PM
The mod version checker says "Failed to load" from the link you've provided.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 11, 2024, 11:18:18 PM
The mod version checker says "Failed to load" from the link you've provided.
Good morning, I will try to help figure this out but some more detail would be helpful.
Are you running the game under Linux?
Do you use a third party mod manager or the one that comes with the game launcher?
Have you been able to run it in prior version of the mod with no issue?

I ask these questions because before responding to your message, I downloaded the mod and reinstalled it and received no errors when I started a game. I then checked dropbox where I host the version file to see if it was down but had no problem accessing it. Lastly I downloaded just the version file and it does match the current version of the game and the two embedded links were correct. I am at a bit of a loss why you are receiving an error and my first response was going to be to try re-downloading the mod as your file may have been corrupted but I wanted to cover all the potential bases.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: ThatsMyFootThanks on March 12, 2024, 03:57:08 AM
The mod version checker says "Failed to load" from the link you've provided.
Good morning, I will try to help figure this out but some more detail would be helpful.
Are you running the game under Linux?
Do you use a third party mod manager or the one that comes with the game launcher?
Have you been able to run it in prior version of the mod with no issue?

I ask these questions because before responding to your message, I downloaded the mod and reinstalled it and received no errors when I started a game. I then checked dropbox where I host the version file to see if it was down but had no problem accessing it. Lastly I downloaded just the version file and it does match the current version of the game and the two embedded links were correct. I am at a bit of a loss why you are receiving an error and my first response was going to be to try re-downloading the mod as your file may have been corrupted but I wanted to cover all the potential bases.

Thanks for reaching out so quickly.

I'm currently running the latest version of the game (to my knowlege). Game running on Windows 11, using the mod manager that comes with the game and this is the first time I try to run it. It used to run fine just a few days ago.
I deleted the file from my mod game file and redownloaded the one you provide, but it says:

Name: Hiver Swarm
Installed version: v1.1.1
Online version: Failed to get version
failed to load master version file from URL "https://www.dropbox.com/s/hxk0wha4muuqkkp/HIVER.version?dl=1"
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 12, 2024, 07:53:54 AM
The mod version checker says "Failed to load" from the link you've provided.
Good morning, I will try to help figure this out but some more detail would be helpful.
Are you running the game under Linux?
Do you use a third party mod manager or the one that comes with the game launcher?
Have you been able to run it in prior version of the mod with no issue?

I ask these questions because before responding to your message, I downloaded the mod and reinstalled it and received no errors when I started a game. I then checked dropbox where I host the version file to see if it was down but had no problem accessing it. Lastly I downloaded just the version file and it does match the current version of the game and the two embedded links were correct. I am at a bit of a loss why you are receiving an error and my first response was going to be to try re-downloading the mod as your file may have been corrupted but I wanted to cover all the potential bases.

Thanks for reaching out so quickly.

I'm currently running the latest version of the game (to my knowlege). Game running on Windows 11, using the mod manager that comes with the game and this is the first time I try to run it. It used to run fine just a few days ago.
I deleted the file from my mod game file and redownloaded the one you provide, but it says:

Name: Hiver Swarm
Installed version: v1.1.1
Online version: Failed to get version
failed to load master version file from URL "https://www.dropbox.com/s/hxk0wha4muuqkkp/HIVER.version?dl=1"
OK thank you for the details. I clicked the link you posted and it is correct. This version of the mod has been out for over a month and this is the first report of this nature that has been reported. I also noted you are having the same issue with Diable Avionics which I also use with no issues. The only thing I can think of is that your IP is blocking the link for one reason or another. I checked Diable's version file and it uses github as it's host and I use dropbox so it is most likely not that. I will look into this further but at this stage I am honestly stumped. Maybe Caymon Joestar has a better answer so keep tuned to that forum as well.

I am sorry I do not have a solution to your problem at this time.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: ThatsMyFootThanks on March 12, 2024, 12:30:07 PM
The mod version checker says "Failed to load" from the link you've provided.
Good morning, I will try to help figure this out but some more detail would be helpful.
Are you running the game under Linux?
Do you use a third party mod manager or the one that comes with the game launcher?
Have you been able to run it in prior version of the mod with no issue?

I ask these questions because before responding to your message, I downloaded the mod and reinstalled it and received no errors when I started a game. I then checked dropbox where I host the version file to see if it was down but had no problem accessing it. Lastly I downloaded just the version file and it does match the current version of the game and the two embedded links were correct. I am at a bit of a loss why you are receiving an error and my first response was going to be to try re-downloading the mod as your file may have been corrupted but I wanted to cover all the potential bases.

Thanks for reaching out so quickly.

I'm currently running the latest version of the game (to my knowlege). Game running on Windows 11, using the mod manager that comes with the game and this is the first time I try to run it. It used to run fine just a few days ago.
I deleted the file from my mod game file and redownloaded the one you provide, but it says:

Name: Hiver Swarm
Installed version: v1.1.1
Online version: Failed to get version
failed to load master version file from URL "https://www.dropbox.com/s/hxk0wha4muuqkkp/HIVER.version?dl=1"
OK thank you for the details. I clicked the link you posted and it is correct. This version of the mod has been out for over a month and this is the first report of this nature that has been reported. I also noted you are having the same issue with Diable Avionics which I also use with no issues. The only thing I can think of is that your IP is blocking the link for one reason or another. I checked Diable's version file and it uses github as it's host and I use dropbox so it is most likely not that. I will look into this further but at this stage I am honestly stumped. Maybe Caymon Joestar has a better answer so keep tuned to that forum as well.

I am sorry I do not have a solution to your problem at this time.

Thank you anyway. I'm not an expert by any means but I'll try to dig a bit see what I can find. One thing I do have is NoScript installed in Firefox (that's what I'm using, btw). I don't know If that could be doing something. I also have the free version of Bitdefender.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Shogouki on March 12, 2024, 02:26:03 PM
The mod version checker says "Failed to load" from the link you've provided.
Good morning, I will try to help figure this out but some more detail would be helpful.
Are you running the game under Linux?
Do you use a third party mod manager or the one that comes with the game launcher?
Have you been able to run it in prior version of the mod with no issue?

I ask these questions because before responding to your message, I downloaded the mod and reinstalled it and received no errors when I started a game. I then checked dropbox where I host the version file to see if it was down but had no problem accessing it. Lastly I downloaded just the version file and it does match the current version of the game and the two embedded links were correct. I am at a bit of a loss why you are receiving an error and my first response was going to be to try re-downloading the mod as your file may have been corrupted but I wanted to cover all the potential bases.

Thanks for reaching out so quickly.

I'm currently running the latest version of the game (to my knowlege). Game running on Windows 11, using the mod manager that comes with the game and this is the first time I try to run it. It used to run fine just a few days ago.
I deleted the file from my mod game file and redownloaded the one you provide, but it says:

Name: Hiver Swarm
Installed version: v1.1.1
Online version: Failed to get version
failed to load master version file from URL "https://www.dropbox.com/s/hxk0wha4muuqkkp/HIVER.version?dl=1"
OK thank you for the details. I clicked the link you posted and it is correct. This version of the mod has been out for over a month and this is the first report of this nature that has been reported. I also noted you are having the same issue with Diable Avionics which I also use with no issues. The only thing I can think of is that your IP is blocking the link for one reason or another. I checked Diable's version file and it uses github as it's host and I use dropbox so it is most likely not that. I will look into this further but at this stage I am honestly stumped. Maybe Caymon Joestar has a better answer so keep tuned to that forum as well.

I am sorry I do not have a solution to your problem at this time.

Thank you anyway. I'm not an expert by any means but I'll try to dig a bit see what I can find. One thing I do have is NoScript installed in Firefox (that's what I'm using, btw). I don't know If that could be doing something. I also have the free version of Bitdefender.

You might check your Bitdefender logs and check to make sure that it didn't automatically quarantine something.  There's been reports of Windows Defender erroneously flagging files in Magiclib this week too.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 12, 2024, 02:59:49 PM
@Shogouki good advice, thank you for offering it. I had not thought of that, hope it does the trick for ThatsMyFootThanks
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: ThatsMyFootThanks on March 12, 2024, 10:36:15 PM
The mod version checker says "Failed to load" from the link you've provided.
Good morning, I will try to help figure this out but some more detail would be helpful.
Are you running the game under Linux?
Do you use a third party mod manager or the one that comes with the game launcher?
Have you been able to run it in prior version of the mod with no issue?

I ask these questions because before responding to your message, I downloaded the mod and reinstalled it and received no errors when I started a game. I then checked dropbox where I host the version file to see if it was down but had no problem accessing it. Lastly I downloaded just the version file and it does match the current version of the game and the two embedded links were correct. I am at a bit of a loss why you are receiving an error and my first response was going to be to try re-downloading the mod as your file may have been corrupted but I wanted to cover all the potential bases.

Thanks for reaching out so quickly.

I'm currently running the latest version of the game (to my knowlege). Game running on Windows 11, using the mod manager that comes with the game and this is the first time I try to run it. It used to run fine just a few days ago.
I deleted the file from my mod game file and redownloaded the one you provide, but it says:

Name: Hiver Swarm
Installed version: v1.1.1
Online version: Failed to get version
failed to load master version file from URL "https://www.dropbox.com/s/hxk0wha4muuqkkp/HIVER.version?dl=1"
OK thank you for the details. I clicked the link you posted and it is correct. This version of the mod has been out for over a month and this is the first report of this nature that has been reported. I also noted you are having the same issue with Diable Avionics which I also use with no issues. The only thing I can think of is that your IP is blocking the link for one reason or another. I checked Diable's version file and it uses github as it's host and I use dropbox so it is most likely not that. I will look into this further but at this stage I am honestly stumped. Maybe Caymon Joestar has a better answer so keep tuned to that forum as well.

I am sorry I do not have a solution to your problem at this time.

Thank you anyway. I'm not an expert by any means but I'll try to dig a bit see what I can find. One thing I do have is NoScript installed in Firefox (that's what I'm using, btw). I don't know If that could be doing something. I also have the free version of Bitdefender.

You might check your Bitdefender logs and check to make sure that it didn't automatically quarantine something.  There's been reports of Windows Defender erroneously flagging files in Magiclib this week too.

Thanks, but I don't see anything odd in the logs and I don't have archives in quarantine. Maybe some other mod I have installed is causing this somehow? I'm gonna try to delete my internet cache and try again.
Btw... What IF the version checker of the game is acting up on some computers?
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Uther Phobos on March 13, 2024, 04:29:01 AM
The mod version checker says "Failed to load" from the link you've provided.
Good morning, I will try to help figure this out but some more detail would be helpful.
Are you running the game under Linux?
Do you use a third party mod manager or the one that comes with the game launcher?
Have you been able to run it in prior version of the mod with no issue?

I ask these questions because before responding to your message, I downloaded the mod and reinstalled it and received no errors when I started a game. I then checked dropbox where I host the version file to see if it was down but had no problem accessing it. Lastly I downloaded just the version file and it does match the current version of the game and the two embedded links were correct. I am at a bit of a loss why you are receiving an error and my first response was going to be to try re-downloading the mod as your file may have been corrupted but I wanted to cover all the potential bases.

Thanks for reaching out so quickly.

I'm currently running the latest version of the game (to my knowlege). Game running on Windows 11, using the mod manager that comes with the game and this is the first time I try to run it. It used to run fine just a few days ago.
I deleted the file from my mod game file and redownloaded the one you provide, but it says:

Name: Hiver Swarm
Installed version: v1.1.1
Online version: Failed to get version
failed to load master version file from URL "https://www.dropbox.com/s/hxk0wha4muuqkkp/HIVER.version?dl=1"
OK thank you for the details. I clicked the link you posted and it is correct. This version of the mod has been out for over a month and this is the first report of this nature that has been reported. I also noted you are having the same issue with Diable Avionics which I also use with no issues. The only thing I can think of is that your IP is blocking the link for one reason or another. I checked Diable's version file and it uses github as it's host and I use dropbox so it is most likely not that. I will look into this further but at this stage I am honestly stumped. Maybe Caymon Joestar has a better answer so keep tuned to that forum as well.

I am sorry I do not have a solution to your problem at this time.

Thank you anyway. I'm not an expert by any means but I'll try to dig a bit see what I can find. One thing I do have is NoScript installed in Firefox (that's what I'm using, btw). I don't know If that could be doing something. I also have the free version of Bitdefender.

You might check your Bitdefender logs and check to make sure that it didn't automatically quarantine something.  There's been reports of Windows Defender erroneously flagging files in Magiclib this week too.

Thanks, but I don't see anything odd in the logs and I don't have archives in quarantine. Maybe some other mod I have installed is causing this somehow? I'm gonna try to delete my internet cache and try again.
Btw... What IF the version checker of the game is acting up on some computers?
That'd be a problem with the Version Checker then, not with Hiver Swarm. Note that it isn't "of the game" but from another mod. The basegame has no online version checker for mods.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: ThatsMyFootThanks on March 13, 2024, 06:15:48 AM
The mod version checker says "Failed to load" from the link you've provided.
Good morning, I will try to help figure this out but some more detail would be helpful.
Are you running the game under Linux?
Do you use a third party mod manager or the one that comes with the game launcher?
Have you been able to run it in prior version of the mod with no issue?

I ask these questions because before responding to your message, I downloaded the mod and reinstalled it and received no errors when I started a game. I then checked dropbox where I host the version file to see if it was down but had no problem accessing it. Lastly I downloaded just the version file and it does match the current version of the game and the two embedded links were correct. I am at a bit of a loss why you are receiving an error and my first response was going to be to try re-downloading the mod as your file may have been corrupted but I wanted to cover all the potential bases.

Thanks for reaching out so quickly.

I'm currently running the latest version of the game (to my knowlege). Game running on Windows 11, using the mod manager that comes with the game and this is the first time I try to run it. It used to run fine just a few days ago.
I deleted the file from my mod game file and redownloaded the one you provide, but it says:

Name: Hiver Swarm
Installed version: v1.1.1
Online version: Failed to get version
failed to load master version file from URL "https://www.dropbox.com/s/hxk0wha4muuqkkp/HIVER.version?dl=1"
OK thank you for the details. I clicked the link you posted and it is correct. This version of the mod has been out for over a month and this is the first report of this nature that has been reported. I also noted you are having the same issue with Diable Avionics which I also use with no issues. The only thing I can think of is that your IP is blocking the link for one reason or another. I checked Diable's version file and it uses github as it's host and I use dropbox so it is most likely not that. I will look into this further but at this stage I am honestly stumped. Maybe Caymon Joestar has a better answer so keep tuned to that forum as well.

I am sorry I do not have a solution to your problem at this time.

Thank you anyway. I'm not an expert by any means but I'll try to dig a bit see what I can find. One thing I do have is NoScript installed in Firefox (that's what I'm using, btw). I don't know If that could be doing something. I also have the free version of Bitdefender.

You might check your Bitdefender logs and check to make sure that it didn't automatically quarantine something.  There's been reports of Windows Defender erroneously flagging files in Magiclib this week too.

Thanks, but I don't see anything odd in the logs and I don't have archives in quarantine. Maybe some other mod I have installed is causing this somehow? I'm gonna try to delete my internet cache and try again.
Btw... What IF the version checker of the game is acting up on some computers?
That'd be a problem with the Version Checker then, not with Hiver Swarm. Note that it isn't "of the game" but from another mod. The basegame has no online version checker for mods.

Oooh I wait I though it had. Maybe I have installed it or it came with another mod and I just can't remember. Maybe Nexerilin or something?
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: ThatsMyFootThanks on March 13, 2024, 10:24:54 PM
Only problem it'll cause is that you won't be made aware IG of new updates for those mods, really. You can play without problem at all.
The "bug" if you can call it that is the URL doesn't redirect correctly, so the checker can't do its job in those cases. The URL problem comes from the mod author's side though, not Nex.

So tldr: won't brick your save, won't ctd. It's just telling you it doesn't know if there are new updates for those mods.

-------------------
That was a replay from the Nexerelin mod about this issue potentially being caused by their version checker. Apparently it's fine to just play with it.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: The_Dank_Astero on March 14, 2024, 02:47:24 AM
Me when I install this mod while playing Star federation or UAF: (https://media1.tenor.com/m/CqNPvYcVgu4AAAAd/good-bug-dead-bug.gif)
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 14, 2024, 03:05:26 AM
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/002/182/171/eb0.jpg)
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: ThatsMyFootThanks on March 14, 2024, 03:53:43 AM
Maybe a silly question, but I don't suppose you can play as the swarm?
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 14, 2024, 04:51:31 AM
Maybe a silly question, but I don't suppose you can play as the swarm?
Sort of. I do have directions to make them playable in the README file that is included in the Zip as well as under the spoiler tag labeled: The mod comes with several optional files that can be enabled before the start of a new game on this forum page's OP. I state the sort of because they are set up to be a NPC faction so if you make them playable then their faction alignment setting that make them hate and be hated by everyone blend with the "player" faction settings. So essentially when you make them playable it uses the Nexerelin player settings.

TLDR: If you enable the option to make them playable you will be on good standing with the Hivers however the faction itself will remain enemies with all other factions. As the player you will have some factions that are neutral to favorable as well as several enemies.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: ThatsMyFootThanks on March 14, 2024, 04:58:11 AM
Maybe a silly question, but I don't suppose you can play as the swarm?
Sort of. I do have directions to make them playable in the README file that is included in the Zip as well as under the spoiler tag labeled: The mod comes with several optional files that can be enabled before the start of a new game on this forum page's OP. I state the sort of because they are set up to be a NPC faction so if you make them playable then their faction alignment setting that make them hate and be hated by everyone blend with the "player" faction settings. So essentially when you make them playable it uses the Nexerelin player settings.

TLDR: If you enable the option to make them playable you will be on good standing with the Hivers however the faction itself will remain enemies with all other factions. As the player you will have some factions that are neutral to favorable as well as several enemies.

Ok that's what I thought. I'm not gonna play with them I just wanted to make sure that they're supposed to be the "scary" end game enemy faction type of deal. (Sooo as in normal mode they're sort of like the AI ships you can't take them for yourself even if you beat them in combat right?)
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 14, 2024, 05:08:17 AM
Maybe a silly question, but I don't suppose you can play as the swarm?
Sort of. I do have directions to make them playable in the README file that is included in the Zip as well as under the spoiler tag labeled: The mod comes with several optional files that can be enabled before the start of a new game on this forum page's OP. I state the sort of because they are set up to be a NPC faction so if you make them playable then their faction alignment setting that make them hate and be hated by everyone blend with the "player" faction settings. So essentially when you make them playable it uses the Nexerelin player settings.

TLDR: If you enable the option to make them playable you will be on good standing with the Hivers however the faction itself will remain enemies with all other factions. As the player you will have some factions that are neutral to favorable as well as several enemies.

Ok that's what I thought. I'm not gonna play with them I just wanted to make sure that they're supposed to be the "scary" end game enemy faction type of deal.
Yes, they start off the same as the player but they are set to maximum aggression so within a cycle or two you will see them sending out invasion fleets. Whether they are early, mid or end game threats depends on how many faction mods you have installed.  The more enemies they have the slower their progression so a vanilla sector with just Hiver installed they will roll over the vanilla factions real soon.
(Sooo as in normal mode they're sort of like the AI ships you can't take them for yourself even if you beat them in combat right?)
I have the mod set to have their ships be recoverable however in that optional file I referenced earlier there is an option of make them unrecoverable.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: ThatsMyFootThanks on March 14, 2024, 06:01:36 AM
Maybe a silly question, but I don't suppose you can play as the swarm?
Sort of. I do have directions to make them playable in the README file that is included in the Zip as well as under the spoiler tag labeled: The mod comes with several optional files that can be enabled before the start of a new game on this forum page's OP. I state the sort of because they are set up to be a NPC faction so if you make them playable then their faction alignment setting that make them hate and be hated by everyone blend with the "player" faction settings. So essentially when you make them playable it uses the Nexerelin player settings.

TLDR: If you enable the option to make them playable you will be on good standing with the Hivers however the faction itself will remain enemies with all other factions. As the player you will have some factions that are neutral to favorable as well as several enemies.

Ok that's what I thought. I'm not gonna play with them I just wanted to make sure that they're supposed to be the "scary" end game enemy faction type of deal.
Yes, they start off the same as the player but they are set to maximum aggression so within a cycle or two you will see them sending out invasion fleets. Whether they are early, mid or end game threats depends on how many faction mods you have installed.  The more enemies they have the slower their progression so a vanilla sector with just Hiver installed they will roll over the vanilla factions real soon.
(Sooo as in normal mode they're sort of like the AI ships you can't take them for yourself even if you beat them in combat right?)
I have the mod set to have their ships be recoverable however in that optional file I referenced earlier there is an option of make them unrecoverable.

Ah ok, got it! Thanks for the clarification there.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: ProdigyToby on March 14, 2024, 10:06:32 AM
  To anyone also playing Nexerelin with this Faction enabled, have you guys ever seen another faction successfully defend an invasion from these guys?  I was confused as to why factions couldn't defend themselves until my colony got raided, they showed up with a good number of fleets and the vessels themselves are pretty strong on an individual basis, I cant see the AI really putting up much a fight to be honest.  Right now in my playthrough, literally every faction hates them and tries to raid their core systems all the time.  I started putting alot more HE weapons on my ships which helps, but unless Im mistaken, other factions don't adapt like that and just lose all the time.  I track which systems they invade and go to those systems and farm them, their weapons sell for a good amount so I'm not really complaining, but I feel like if left unchecked they would eventually just take out every other faction.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: ThatsMyFootThanks on March 14, 2024, 11:18:39 AM
  To anyone also playing Nexerelin with this Faction enabled, have you guys ever seen another faction successfully defend an invasion from these guys?  I was confused as to why factions couldn't defend themselves until my colony got raided, they showed up with a good number of fleets and the vessels themselves are pretty strong on an individual basis, I cant see the AI really putting up much a fight to be honest.  Right now in my playthrough, literally every faction hates them and tries to raid their core systems all the time.  I started putting alot more HE weapons on my ships which helps, but unless Im mistaken, other factions don't adapt like that and just lose all the time.  I track which systems they invade and go to those systems and farm them, their weapons sell for a good amount so I'm not really complaining, but I feel like if left unchecked they would eventually just take out every other faction.

I think San-Iris might be able to defend against them, so long as they don't try to go to their systems. They're all out defense focused. I can't image the UAF or Iron Shell losing to anyone, either. And then I guess PRV Starworks have pretty solid ships. Will try to update you on this one as I play on.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 14, 2024, 01:48:36 PM
  To anyone also playing Nexerelin with this Faction enabled, have you guys ever seen another faction successfully defend an invasion from these guys?  I was confused as to why factions couldn't defend themselves until my colony got raided, they showed up with a good number of fleets and the vessels themselves are pretty strong on an individual basis, I cant see the AI really putting up much a fight to be honest.  Right now in my playthrough, literally every faction hates them and tries to raid their core systems all the time.  I started putting alot more HE weapons on my ships which helps, but unless Im mistaken, other factions don't adapt like that and just lose all the time.  I track which systems they invade and go to those systems and farm them, their weapons sell for a good amount so I'm not really complaining, but I feel like if left unchecked they would eventually just take out every other faction.
They are meant to be a threat that the player has to take a role in dealing with. Basically the more faction mods you have installed the slower their growth. I would personally recommend at the minimum of 4 faction mods to keep them occupied while you build up since, as you noticed, the vanilla factions are not equipped to deal with them. Bottom line is you can not ignore them as they are set to be more aggressive than norm and will take over w/out direct player intervention.

I have been told that UAF (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=12709.0) and Legio Infernalis from Tahlan Shipworks (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=14935.0) are also OP factions that can handle them. I would add The Xhan Empire (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=17972.0) to that list as although they are more balanced, they are situated directly in the path of the Hiver invasion route and they have a very well defended system. Plus you may want to look at the ship packs like Diktat Enhancement (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=22852.0) that buff up the vanilla factions. Lastly, on the forum OP I recommend ruthless sector as that puts Ordo fleets in hyperspace and they will intercept Hiver invasion fleets but that is a double edged sword as they will intercept you as well.

Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: ProdigyToby on March 16, 2024, 04:12:38 PM
  I do have a few modded factions, including the UAF.  Very rarely does UAF interact with other factions for some reason though, they just stay in their core worlds on the lower left of the map most of the time.  I have definitely seen Hiver and Iron Shell invade each other, and the Hivers have definitely successfully invaded Iron Shell colonies.  They completely wiped out Approlight's core system Augustin? I think its called in my playthrough, which is kind of hilarious, because that faction is super overpowered.

  I'm not complaining, I do enjoy an actual looming threat like the Hivers, because otherwise the game is not too threatening if you follow some orthodox playstyles.  I just enjoy factions interacting with each other and such, but these guys just come in and clean house most of the time, unless I intervene with my specific anti-Hiver loadouts.  I wonder if taking out one or two of their colonies will slow them down.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 16, 2024, 04:58:47 PM
  I do have a few modded factions, including the UAF.  Very rarely does UAF interact with other factions for some reason though, they just stay in their core worlds on the lower left of the map most of the time.  I have definitely seen Hiver and Iron Shell invade each other, and the Hivers have definitely successfully invaded Iron Shell colonies.  They completely wiped out Approlight's core system Augustin? I think its called in my playthrough, which is kind of hilarious, because that faction is super overpowered.
Hello there thanks for checking in. I do not use UAF myself so I have no direct experience, it is just what I have read.
  I'm not complaining, I do enjoy an actual looming threat like the Hivers, because otherwise the game is not too threatening if you follow some orthodox playstyles.  I just enjoy factions interacting with each other and such, but these guys just come in and clean house most of the time, unless I intervene with my specific anti-Hiver loadouts. 
Hivers WILL dominate the system if the player does not intervene. This mod is not a oh I'll install it and eventually get around to it :) I made it because I felt the journey to the endgame was not much of an experience and I wanted a bigger threat to have to handle before eating the Doritos. They are designed to grow and can be handled by the player mid-game and then the player can move on to the end game. But if you ignore them then the snowball just gets bigger and harder to handle.
I wonder if taking out one or two of their colonies will slow them down.
I do have instructions on the front page of this forum on options you can do to make them easier, details are under the "The mod comes with several optional files that can be enabled before the start of a new game" spoiler tag. Also, I have seen tactics shared on reddit where players have snuck in their systems, raided their planets and stole the cores and/or forges and that really nerfs them. I am working on a CFT update atm but I'll add Hiver to next in line as see if I can add a weaker option for players that want to have clamed down Hivers.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: krisslanza on March 17, 2024, 03:44:26 AM
  I do have a few modded factions, including the UAF.  Very rarely does UAF interact with other factions for some reason though, they just stay in their core worlds on the lower left of the map most of the time.  I have definitely seen Hiver and Iron Shell invade each other, and the Hivers have definitely successfully invaded Iron Shell colonies.  They completely wiped out Approlight's core system Augustin? I think its called in my playthrough, which is kind of hilarious, because that faction is super overpowered.

  I'm not complaining, I do enjoy an actual looming threat like the Hivers, because otherwise the game is not too threatening if you follow some orthodox playstyles.  I just enjoy factions interacting with each other and such, but these guys just come in and clean house most of the time, unless I intervene with my specific anti-Hiver loadouts.  I wonder if taking out one or two of their colonies will slow them down.

The UAF doesn't interact much because they're flagged with 'pacifist', I think in Nex. Given their location, and the circumstances of their arrival, they don't have much interest in actually conquering the Sector.

Personally, I hear these stories of how dangerous they get, but I haven't usually seen the Hivers snowball at all... I have certainly seen them take some impressive colonies from time to time, but then they usually get stuck struggling to hold them due to the stability issues, and everyone raiding it. I might simply have too many faction mods though, so the Hivers just can't as easily get the ball rolling because they can't take out any major players.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: OBRISON on March 17, 2024, 05:00:38 AM
I made account just to say this.

Hivers got destroyed early on my save, I had very little interaction with core worlds early game (I started off core in my own faction). I was very confused and sad to suddenly find out they were gone because I read everywhere they are gonna overtake core worlds. Now I am protecting Imperium against massive TTSC empire in my core system.
Would be cool to see somekind of Hiver sleeper colonies so when they get destroyed they can re-attempt to cause mess in core systems.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 17, 2024, 06:36:42 AM
I made account just to say this.
I am flattered, thank you for making the effort.
Hivers got destroyed early on my save, I had very little interaction with core worlds early game (I started off core in my own faction). I was very confused and sad to suddenly find out they were gone because I read everywhere they are gonna overtake core worlds.
I have to say I am a bit stumped because this is a first for me. With little information I can deduce you are playing a game with a faction you made that is located out of the core worlds as it's stating point. My guess is that you play a heavily modded game based on your mention of Imperium and TTSC. I am curious, would you be willing to share your enabled_mods.json list? If you are unsure of it's location, it can be found in starsector\mods. For reference here is mine:
Spoiler
{"enabledMods": [
  "pantera_ANewLevel30",
  "apex_design",
  "lw_autosave",
  "BSC",
  "HMI_brighton",
  "ORK",
  "CFT",
  "CJHM",
  "combatactivators",
  "chatter",
  "timid_commissioned_hull_mods",
  "lw_console",
  "Toaster_deciv",
  "diableavionics",
  "Diktat Enhancement",
  "dex",
  "edshipyard",
  "EmergentThreats_Vice",
  "EmergentThreats_IX_Revival",
  "FPE",
  "GrandColonies",
  "GMDA",
  "HMI_SV",
  "HMI",
  "hte",
  "HIVER",
  "aerialcombatsuit",
  "IndEvo",
  "Imperium",
  "timid_xiv",
  "JYD",
  "keruvim_shipyards",
  "lost_sector",
  "lw_lazylib",
  "LobsterCruiser",
  "luddenhance",
  "lunalib",
  "MagicLib",
  "Marvelous-Personas",
  "Mayasuran Navy",
  "MoreBarMissions",
  "MoreMilitaryMissions",
  "wisp_NeutrinoDetectorMkII",
  "sun_new_beginnings",
  "nexerelin",
  "sun_nomadic_survival",
  "objects_analysis",
  "ObviousNeutron",
  "JYDR",
  "PirateMiniMegaMod",
  "portrait_changer",
  "progressiveSMods",
  "pt_qolpack",
  "QualityCaptains",
  "assortment_of_things",
  "sun_ruthless_sector",
  "SCY",
  "secretsofthefrontier",
  "SEEKER",
  "swp",
  "spacetruckin",
  "speedUp",
  "sun_starship_legends",
  "StopGapMeasures3",
  "timid_supply_forging",
  "supportships",
  "surveycorpssp",
  "presmattdamon_takenoprisoners",
  "exalted",
  "knights_of_ludd",
  "TTSC",
  "underworld",
  "US",
  "vic",
  "vayrashippack",
  "TouchOfVanilla_vri",
  "whichmod",
  "XhanEmpire",
  "audio_plus",
  "prvagni",
  "prvextra",
  "prvlib",
  "prvPath",
  "prvrb",
  "prv",
  "shaderLib"
]}
[close]
Now I am protecting Imperium against massive TTSC empire in my core system.
Well I make TTSC as well and to hear they have a massive empire is another puzzle for me. They start with 3 stations and no planets and essentially act as a police force for Tri-Tac space. They will hunt down enemies of Tri-Tac and do have the ability to invade but "massive empire" elicits the idea that they own most of the sector. Roughly what percent of your sector is inhabited by TTSC?
Would be cool to see somekind of Hiver sleeper colonies so when they get destroyed they can re-attempt to cause mess in core systems.
Well there is an option for defeated factions to re-spawn when you start the game, check to see if that is turned on. But even then it would not be the same experience because I custom crafted their systems to maximize their economic output while also not being able to trade with anyone. That is why I do not recommend using this mod in RCW mode because it ignores all faction settings when it generates a sector.

I would like to help with your statements but at this stage I am left with more questions than potential answers. Some more clarity would help me better understand the root causes of your concerns.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: OBRISON on March 17, 2024, 07:15:50 AM
Quote
I have to say I am a bit stumped because this is a first for me. With little information I can deduce you are playing a game with a faction you made that is located out of the core worlds as it's stating point. My guess is that you play a heavily modded game based on your mention of Imperium and TTSC. I am curious, would you be willing to share your enabled_mods.json list? If you are unsure of it's location, it can be found in starsector\mods. For reference here is mine:
Looking at your list, my modlist is pretty small, lmao.
I have Legio disabled in config.
Spoiler
{
  "enabledMods": [
    "tahlan",
    "aod_vos",
    "DetailedCombatResults",
    "swp",
    "hte",
    "Imperium",
    "TTSC",
    "lunalib",
    "HMI",
    "QualityCaptains",
    "whichmod",
    "MagicLib",
    "HIVER",
    "Terraforming & Station Construction",
    "lw_lazylib",
    "sun_starship_legends",
    "Cryo_but_better",
    "aotd_vok",
    "MoreMilitaryMissions",
    "nexerelin",
    "shaderLib"
  ]
}
[close]

Quote
Well I make TTSC as well and to hear they have a massive empire is another puzzle for me. They start with 3 stations and no planets and essentially act as a police force for Tri-Tac space. They will hunt down enemies of Tri-Tac and do have the ability to invade but "massive empire" elicits the idea that they own most of the sector. Roughly what percent of your sector is inhabited by TTSC?
Its 5 factions remaining, TTSC owns roughly 90% of core worlds.
Imperium is turtled in their system which does get invaded in waves, I am managing to stop invasions, if I fail I take back the worlds and give them back to Imperium so TTSC doesnt start aiming for me. TTSC fleets are pretty weak (or I am simply stronger) so I am not sure what is going on.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 17, 2024, 07:30:16 AM
Quote
I have to say I am a bit stumped because this is a first for me. With little information I can deduce you are playing a game with a faction you made that is located out of the core worlds as it's stating point. My guess is that you play a heavily modded game based on your mention of Imperium and TTSC. I am curious, would you be willing to share your enabled_mods.json list? If you are unsure of it's location, it can be found in starsector\mods. For reference here is mine:
Looking at your list, my modlist is pretty small, lmao.
I have Legio disabled in config.
Spoiler
{
  "enabledMods": [
    "tahlan",
    "aod_vos",
    "DetailedCombatResults",
    "swp",
    "hte",
    "Imperium",
    "TTSC",
    "lunalib",
    "HMI",
    "QualityCaptains",
    "whichmod",
    "MagicLib",
    "HIVER",
    "Terraforming & Station Construction",
    "lw_lazylib",
    "sun_starship_legends",
    "Cryo_but_better",
    "aotd_vok",
    "MoreMilitaryMissions",
    "nexerelin",
    "shaderLib"
  ]
}
[close]
The only variant between yours and mine that I see is AotD and that should have no effect on invasions. And with Legio disabled I am truly stumped how that happened with the mod list you shared.
Quote
Well I make TTSC as well and to hear they have a massive empire is another puzzle for me. They start with 3 stations and no planets and essentially act as a police force for Tri-Tac space. They will hunt down enemies of Tri-Tac and do have the ability to invade but "massive empire" elicits the idea that they own most of the sector. Roughly what percent of your sector is inhabited by TTSC?
Its 5 factions remaining, TTSC owns roughly 90% of core worlds.
Imperium is turtled in their system which does get invaded in waves, I am managing to stop invasions, if I fail I take back the worlds and give them back to Imperium so TTSC doesnt start aiming for me. TTSC fleets are pretty weak (or I am simply stronger) so I am not sure what is going on.
TTSC ships are a little stronger than Tri-Tac standard ships as they are the military arm of Tri-Tac but not THAT strong. Based on your mod list it looks like you have TTSC, tahlan, Imperium and HMI as your enabled faction mods and I use all of those myself. I recommend using at least four faction mods to tone down the Hivers and that fits the criteria so that should not be the issue.

I am honestly stumped and really concerned because two of my mods are the issue here. I am not even sure where else to look to figure this out so at this stage the best I can do is offer a sincere apology for my mods ruining your game experience. I know this is going to weigh on me and be rattling around in my brain for a bit so if I think of anything else that may have caused this, I'll post it here.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: OBRISON on March 17, 2024, 07:44:37 AM
Quote
I am honestly stumped and really concerned because two of my mods are the issue here. I am not even sure where else to look to figure this out so at this stage the best I can do is offer a sincere apology for my mods ruining your game experience. I know this is going to weigh on me and be rattling around in my brain for a bit so if I think of anything else that may have caused this, I'll post it here.
No need for apology, I just wanted to know if this is common occurance or not. I am still having fun juggling between defending Imperium and making my own faction grow.
If you want I can send you my save if that can help with anything.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 17, 2024, 07:57:01 AM
Quote
I am honestly stumped and really concerned because two of my mods are the issue here. I am not even sure where else to look to figure this out so at this stage the best I can do is offer a sincere apology for my mods ruining your game experience. I know this is going to weigh on me and be rattling around in my brain for a bit so if I think of anything else that may have caused this, I'll post it here.
No need for apology, I just wanted to know if this is common occurance or not. I am still having fun juggling between defending Imperium and making my own faction grow.
That is kind of you and I am glad to hear you are getting some enjoyment out of the situation.
If you want I can send you my save if that can help with anything.
Well as our mod list greatly differs that would be hard to do.

The only thing that comes to mind is that you have referenced playing as your own faction and I am little confused because I do not see a custom mod listed on your enabled mods. Which faction are you refereing to as your own?
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: OBRISON on March 17, 2024, 08:08:00 AM
Quote
The only thing that comes to mind is that you have referenced playing as your own faction and I am little confused because I do not see a custom mod listed on your enabled mods. Which faction are you refereing to as your own?
"Own faction" start option, where you start with your own world.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 17, 2024, 08:25:45 AM
Quote
The only thing that comes to mind is that you have referenced playing as your own faction and I am little confused because I do not see a custom mod listed on your enabled mods. Which faction are you refereing to as your own?
"Own faction" start option, where you start with your own world.
Ah OK that clears it up but that should not have any effect on Hivers or TTSC. My last outlier possibility question is are you using random core worlds mode?
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: OBRISON on March 17, 2024, 08:34:39 AM
Quote
Ah OK that clears it up but that should not have any effect on Hivers or TTSC. My last outlier possibility question is are you using random core worlds mode?
I am using random core worlds mode.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 17, 2024, 09:07:11 AM
Quote
Ah OK that clears it up but that should not have any effect on Hivers or TTSC. My last outlier possibility question is are you using random core worlds mode?
I am using random core worlds mode.
Eureka! That is the issue, phew I was going nuts trying to figure this out. I should have asked that first thing, my bad. This explains both issues because when you start the game in RCW Nexerelin randomly assigns the factions in the sector. What that means is w/e custom systems that a mod adds is ignored and each faction is given even standing in the game. Now normally that is a viable gameplay but as I stated earlier, HIVER has three custom systems that are tailored specifically to make them a threat. In RCW mode they are given one planet with limited resources and even though NEX ignores the custom systems it does use the faction file that sets their relationship status with the other factions. Since they are hard coded to hate and be hated by everyone they have no trading partners and their economy is gutted. With no economic force to fuel their aggression the best they can form is maybe two small fleets with destroyers and that is pitiful compared to them in a standard game. So yes in that scenario they will be the first target of every faction to eliminate.

This is why I have it bolded on the forum OP "Note: see the optional files if you want to have them appear in Nexerelin's Random Core Worlds option(disabled by default)"
And the optional file states the following:
Spoiler
When you start a new game and get to the screen to enable random core worlds, go to option 4)faction settings then 1)Enable/disable factions. A screen will appear on the right and depending on how may faction mods you have installed you may have to scroll down but look for HIVER. It will be disabled by default, just press the Enabled button and go back. The game will remember this setting for this game only and you will need to do this each time you start a new RCW game.

You can enable them for RCW permanently but be aware this will also make them a starting faction so do not do this in a normal Corvus sector game.
From the mods tab in you Starsector folder go to Hiver Swarm\data\config\exerelinfactionConfig\HIVER.json and open it with your editor. Navigate to line 3 "startingFaction":false and set it to true, and save.

A note about adding Hiver Swarm to your Nexerelin game that has Random Core Worlds enabled:
I do not recommend enabling them in RCW because Hivers may be a threat in the early game but due to a lack of trading partners, random planet/placement negatively affecting the Hiver economy, and everyone being at war with them basically permanently, the Hiver faction will become starved of resources, begin to lose worlds and not be much of a threat to anyone. On the positive side, it makes them a source of easy to obtain valuable salvage and some early game XP.
[close]

My guess is that you downloaded the mod from discord and never got to see that warning. If that is the case please let me know but either way I will add that to the discord link somehow.

As for TTSC, as I said earlier, they are hard coded to be allied with Tri-Tac and have better than average ships. In RCW the same thing is applied that their custom stations are ignored and they are given a planet as a homebase. Essentially that gives them and Tri-Tac a huge advantage in RCW because they will always have each other as trading partners.

Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: OBRISON on March 17, 2024, 10:09:19 AM
Quote
This is why I have it bolded on the forum OP "Note: see the optional files if you want to have them appear in Nexerelin's Random Core Worlds option(disabled by default)"
And the optional file states the following:
Then I should apologize, I didnt see it. I dont play Starsector for long periods, I visit forums now and then only when I am playing.
Quote
As for TTSC, as I said earlier, they are hard coded to be allied with Tri-Tac and have better than average ships. In RCW the same thing is applied that their custom stations are ignored and they are given a planet as a homebase. Essentially that gives them and Tri-Tac a huge advantage in RCW because they will always have each other as trading partners.
I also assumed this was the reason why TTSC gained so much power.

For what its worth I like the weapons in this mod. They give me good edge over TTSC.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 17, 2024, 10:23:29 AM
Quote
This is why I have it bolded on the forum OP "Note: see the optional files if you want to have them appear in Nexerelin's Random Core Worlds option(disabled by default)"
And the optional file states the following:
Then I should apologize, I didnt see it. I dont play Starsector for long periods, I visit forums now and then only when I am playing.
No need, I am just happy we figured it out :)
Quote
As for TTSC, as I said earlier, they are hard coded to be allied with Tri-Tac and have better than average ships. In RCW the same thing is applied that their custom stations are ignored and they are given a planet as a homebase. Essentially that gives them and Tri-Tac a huge advantage in RCW because they will always have each other as trading partners.
I also assumed this was the reason why TTSC gained so much power.
Yep they become a powerhouse compared to other factions in RCW. Maybe I should add that as a caution on the TTSC site when I update that mod next.
For what its worth I like the weapons in this mod. They give me good edge over TTSC.
I find that interesting. Though Hiver weapons are more powerful as a general rule, they are almost all pulse energy weapons with a shorter range than TTSC's beams. With the TTSC ship specific hull mod their ships should outrange ships equipped with Hiver weapons and be able to kite them. Either way, I am glad that you are enjoying both mods. TTSC should be next in line for my update queue so I'll keep your comments in mind when I do so.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: ProdigyToby on March 18, 2024, 02:23:21 PM
  Yeah thats one reason I dont like random core worlds.  The faction strength the mod author intends gets throw up into RNG.  The hivers are so strong initially because they have 3 systems?  At the start with some good planets in there.  I also think that the more factions active in your nex playthrough, the more likely the Hivers will get slowed down.  This is because every faction ends up hating the Hivers and thus taking military actions against them.  So if you have like 10 modded factions, and they all hate the Hivers, obviously the Hivers wont be as scary as a playthrough with fewer modded factions.  At least thats what I think happens im my experience.

Hivers WILL dominate the system if the player does not intervene. This mod is not a oh I'll install it and eventually get around to it :) I made it because I felt the journey to the endgame was not much of an experience and I wanted a bigger threat to have to handle before eating the Doritos. They are designed to grow and can be handled by the player mid-game and then the player can move on to the end game. But if you ignore them then the snowball just gets bigger and harder to handle.

  Yeah I think thats fine and needed as a mod.  No other mod quite does what the Hiver mod does this well and this thematically.  Now when I enable the Hivers, I'm aware that it's going to be a "Hiver" playthrough, which is good.  They will get out of control if you don't intervene, and they get slowed down quite a bit or even defeated if the player puts enough effort in. It's a good balance.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 18, 2024, 06:16:21 PM
Hi ProdigyToby, good to hear back from you. I appreciate your follow up and I have some thoughts rolling around in me mind regarding the mod so though I will be responding to your comments, I will most likely also be inserting some TLDR. :)
  Yeah thats one reason I dont like random core worlds.  The faction strength the mod author intends gets throw up into RNG.  The hivers are so strong initially because they have 3 systems?  At the start with some good planets in there.  I also think that the more factions active in your nex playthrough, the more likely the Hivers will get slowed down.  This is because every faction ends up hating the Hivers and thus taking military actions against them.  So if you have like 10 modded factions, and they all hate the Hivers, obviously the Hivers wont be as scary as a playthrough with fewer modded factions.  At least thats what I think happens im my experience.
After years of playing Starsector both with and w/out mods I wanted a new challenge to spice the game up a bit. I designed this mod because as time went on, I tried every mod available some I kept and some I disabled and I currently play a very heavily modded game that has multiple factions enabled. So the release product of Hiver Swarm was with that in mind and I did a poor job explaining that it is intended to be a goal mod in itself and not something you just leave run in the background and eventually get to.
Hivers WILL dominate the system if the player does not intervene. This mod is not a oh I'll install it and eventually get around to it :) I made it because I felt the journey to the endgame was not much of an experience and I wanted a bigger threat to have to handle before eating the Doritos. They are designed to grow and can be handled by the player mid-game and then the player can move on to the end game. But if you ignore them then the snowball just gets bigger and harder to handle.

  Yeah I think thats fine and needed as a mod.  No other mod quite does what the Hiver mod does this well and this thematically.  Now when I enable the Hivers, I'm aware that it's going to be a "Hiver" playthrough, which is good.  They will get out of control if you don't intervene, and they get slowed down quite a bit or even defeated if the player puts enough effort in. It's a good balance.
I appreciate your outlook and that is what I initially intended but I have been receiving several comments here and on discord that players who prefer a less modded game are struggling with the default setup. What really brought it home to me was watching Butter Baronet's latest video, Pushing back the swarm #11, where he essentially states he will no longer be continuing the series as he just cannot get ahead no matter what he does in his lightly modded game. That really brought it home to me since I really enjoyed his Spaceboi vs Hiver video series and I felt I did a disservice to the community that wants a challenge but one that does not require such a heavily modded game.

So, In the next update I will be adding an optional difficulty file to the Zip that will enable a more vanilla+ experience w/out, hopefully, needing multiple mods to make it enjoyable. This is a just a goal at this point and will need some extensive testing on my part and most likely I will get it wrong. My first draft thought is they will still have the three systems, same "I hate you" outlook, the same weapons, wings and ships but they will be far less aggressive with fewer invasion fleets. Or I could do a nerf to their stats to make them much weaker. Maybe a little from column A and a little from column B, idk at this stage.

Sorry to sort of hijack my response with the random thoughts bouncing about my head. Honestly, I am not sure what the answer is here w/out fundamentally changing the core of what this mod is so any ideas from the player base on this would be appreciated. 
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: ProdigyToby on March 18, 2024, 07:47:43 PM
Hi ProdigyToby, good to hear back from you. I appreciate your follow up and I have some thoughts rolling around in me mind regarding the mod so though I will be responding to your comments, I will most likely also be inserting some TLDR. :)
  Yeah thats one reason I dont like random core worlds.  The faction strength the mod author intends gets throw up into RNG.  The hivers are so strong initially because they have 3 systems?  At the start with some good planets in there.  I also think that the more factions active in your nex playthrough, the more likely the Hivers will get slowed down.  This is because every faction ends up hating the Hivers and thus taking military actions against them.  So if you have like 10 modded factions, and they all hate the Hivers, obviously the Hivers wont be as scary as a playthrough with fewer modded factions.  At least thats what I think happens im my experience.
After years of playing Starsector both with and w/out mods I wanted a new challenge to spice the game up a bit. I designed this mod because as time went on, I tried every mod available some I kept and some I disabled and I currently play a very heavily modded game that has multiple factions enabled. So the release product of Hiver Swarm was with that in mind and I did a poor job explaining that it is intended to be a goal mod in itself and not something you just leave run in the background and eventually get to.
Hivers WILL dominate the system if the player does not intervene. This mod is not a oh I'll install it and eventually get around to it :) I made it because I felt the journey to the endgame was not much of an experience and I wanted a bigger threat to have to handle before eating the Doritos. They are designed to grow and can be handled by the player mid-game and then the player can move on to the end game. But if you ignore them then the snowball just gets bigger and harder to handle.

  Yeah I think thats fine and needed as a mod.  No other mod quite does what the Hiver mod does this well and this thematically.  Now when I enable the Hivers, I'm aware that it's going to be a "Hiver" playthrough, which is good.  They will get out of control if you don't intervene, and they get slowed down quite a bit or even defeated if the player puts enough effort in. It's a good balance.
I appreciate your outlook and that is what I initially intended but I have been receiving several comments here and on discord that players who prefer a less modded game are struggling with the default setup. What really brought it home to me was watching Butter Baronet's latest video, Pushing back the swarm #11, where he essentially states he will no longer be continuing the series as he just cannot get ahead no matter what he does in his lightly modded game. That really brought it home to me since I really enjoyed his Spaceboi vs Hiver video series and I felt I did a disservice to the community that wants a challenge but one that does not require such a heavily modded game.

So, In the next update I will be adding an optional difficulty file to the Zip that will enable a more vanilla+ experience w/out, hopefully, needing multiple mods to make it enjoyable. This is a just a goal at this point and will need some extensive testing on my part and most likely I will get it wrong. My first draft thought is they will still have the three systems, same "I hate you" outlook, the same weapons, wings and ships but they will be far less aggressive with fewer invasion fleets. Or I could do a nerf to their stats to make them much weaker. Maybe a little from column A and a little from column B, idk at this stage.

Sorry to sort of hijack my response with the random thoughts bouncing about my head. Honestly, I am not sure what the answer is here w/out fundamentally changing the core of what this mod is so any ideas from the player base on this would be appreciated.

  I actually know exactly the playthrough you're talking about, but with all respect to Butter Baronet, I don't think the main issue is with the mod specifically.  If you pay close attention to the fleets he created, you can see at no point did he ever have a truly capable capital ship, even a vanilla one like the Paragon.  He was also fighting Hiver fleets which were way over the capabilities of the fleets he was using.  I think when you engage the Hivers, you need to treat them like the endgame threat they are.   You need capital ships or even ships that you have heavily invested alot into to contest the Hivers.  They are beatable with vanilla factions, I have done it myself.  I had to farm money and do a little extra things to build the ships I needed, but it is possible.  I think the issue was he kept atempting to engage them after losing his entire fleet, then quickly assembling another fleet which wasn't very capable and doing it again.  You really need to assemble a good fleet like I said, but he repeated this about 3 times or so I believe, which at no point was he going to win with those compositions.  I just think he misunderstood what he needed to have to actually contest them.  He also never realized how valuable their drops are.  I believe he defeated one or two small Hiver fleets, but they didnt drop much.  Once you have one fleet which can contest Hiver fleets and win, you yourself can snowball by selling thier drops to factions for large amounts of credits.

  That being said, its not my decision to decide what gets put in the mod or not, and if you want to put a "casual" option thats completely up to you, but understand that some of us do, in fact, know how to deal with the Hivers.  My only issue was trying to get OTHER factions to deal with them.  I might just be jaded though, because a couple of years ago, we had an even more powerful enemy type mod called "The Knights Templar" where I actually learned how to meta game enough to deal with that faction mod.  They didnt proliferate as well as the Hivers, but they were SO overpowered in their ships and weapons.  So I understand my point of view might not be the best one to make decisions like that with, haha.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 18, 2024, 08:47:59 PM
Thank you for the reply, I trimmed down the TLDR so I can keep it concise.
  I actually know exactly the playthrough you're talking about, but with all respect to Butter Baronet, I don't think the main issue is with the mod specifically.  If you pay close attention to the fleets he created, you can see at no point did he ever have a truly capable capital ship, even a vanilla one like the Paragon.  He was also fighting Hiver fleets which were way over the capabilities of the fleets he was using.  I think when you engage the Hivers, you need to treat them like the endgame threat they are.   You need capital ships or even ships that you have heavily invested alot into to contest the Hivers.
Yea I noticed a couple players giving him some good advice throughout the series and he seemed to change things up and got better at fighting them but I agree that the gameplay overall was a bit hasty. I think that the looming threat was part of what sped up his gameplay but I am not sure.
They are beatable with vanilla factions, I have done it myself.  I had to farm money and do a little extra things to build the ships I needed, but it is possible.  I think the issue was he kept atempting to engage them after losing his entire fleet, then quickly assembling another fleet which wasn't very capable and doing it again.  You really need to assemble a good fleet like I said, but he repeated this about 3 times or so I believe, which at no point was he going to win with those compositions.  I just think he misunderstood what he needed to have to actually contest them.  He also never realized how valuable their drops are.  I believe he defeated one or two small Hiver fleets, but they didnt drop much.  Once you have one fleet which can contest Hiver fleets and win, you yourself can snowball by selling thier drops to factions for large amounts of credits.
I do have the option of not have their ships recoverable or weapons drop for those that do not want alien tech so I assumed he was keeping a RP style like that. However, the reason I have the default setting drop their gear and salvage their ships is that I feel the player needs that to recoup their losses and rebuild. I do see several comments on discord from players talking about/bragging? how many credits they make farming them and that is a valid way to make credits but the original intent was as a means to recoup losses after learning how to fight them but loosing your fleet.
  That being said, its not my decision to decide what gets put in the mod or not, and if you want to put a "casual" option thats completely up to you, but understand that some of us do, in fact, know how to deal with the Hivers.  My only issue was trying to get OTHER factions to deal with them. 
Oh no worries the default option will not change. I just have a firm belief that my goal as a mod maker is to offer options. In this mod alone I have several optional instructions and files up to an entire set of replacement ships and weapons, that is how committed I am to the concept :)
I might just be jaded though, because a couple of years ago, we had an even more powerful enemy type mod called "The Knights Templar" where I actually learned how to meta game enough to deal with that faction mod.  They didnt proliferate as well as the Hivers, but they were SO overpowered in their ships and weapons.  So I understand my point of view might not be the best one to make decisions like that with, haha.
I have been playing this game from when it was called Starfarer. In the Metelson Industries reboot that Knight Chase is caretaking I mention that I was so happy to see it back because I used to play as them like 10 years ago. I miss so many depreciated mods that have been left to time. Knights Templar is certainly one of them but there were some great ones like Tiandong Heavy Industries, COPS, Tore Up Plenty, Galaxy Tigers and Junk Pirates to name a few that I would like to see make a comeback as well. Heck come to think of it I think my first forum post was asking MesoTroniK to add a tanker to Tiandong because I wanted to play as only them lol.

Anyway as I said, I wanted to keep this concise (well as much as my blabberfingers can do). I mainly just wanted to say I appreciate the support thank you.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: ThatsMyFootThanks on March 19, 2024, 05:01:32 AM
I think that the Hivers expand so quickly compared to other factions that even weakening them wouldn't do it. I think to balance them for a more vanilla friendly experience (cause not everybody has the same skill at the game), you need to make them less aggressive, less prone to quick expansion. You probably don't even need to touch their ships. If there would be a setting to make them expand at a rate that the player would be comfortable with, I think that would work better. Cause then the challenge of beating them would still be there, but you could take your time in doing so without being hurried by their every present looming threat.

Just my 2 cents.

I have beat them with an odd combination of modded factions before: Carriers from the UAF, bulky cruisers from the Roider's Union, Some fast annoying ships from vanilla and DA and even a couple Mobile Armor suits from AA. I'm not very good at the game, and I'm not looking for a challenge either. I just enjoy building cool looking ships and seeing what works and what doesn't.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 19, 2024, 05:31:31 AM
I think that the Hivers expand so quickly compared to other factions that even weakening them wouldn't do it. I think to balance them for a more vanilla friendly experience (cause not everybody has the same skill at the game), you need to make them less aggressive, less prone to quick expansion. You probably don't even need to touch their ships. If there would be a setting to make them expand at a rate that the player would be comfortable with, I think that would work better. Cause then the challenge of beating them would still be there, but you could take your time in doing so without being hurried by their every present looming threat.
I am leaning toward the "column A" option I mentioned earlier and it seems you are of the same opinion. I have been doing some "research" on discord reading up on what players are saying there. By separating the wheat from the chaff I did see some interesting ideas like having them hibernate and only appear after several cycles. Thing is, I am pretty much a noob when it comes to Java so I am going to try and implement some of the ideas I saw like that one but I suspect I will be just doing close to what you state in the end.
Just my 2 cents.
OoOoo a tip,  thank you! :)
I have beat them with an odd combination of modded factions before: Carriers from the UAF, bulky cruisers from the Roider's Union, Some fast annoying ships from vanilla and DA and even a couple Mobile Armor suits from AA. I'm not very good at the game, and I'm not looking for a challenge either. I just enjoy building cool looking ships and seeing what works and what doesn't.
Personally I do not use the cookie cutter builds I see online. I also enjoy experimenting and seeing what I can build. A core philosophy behind my playable faction mods is giving options to players that are not available in the vanilla game. When I play, it is always as an independent and generally as a scavenger that only uses what I salvage or a miner that only earns credits from mining/refining. I rarely play as a faction commissioned captain, even with the factions I created. Though, TBH, I do follow their fleets sometimes in hopes there may be some floating ships from their factions I can snag after a battle ;)

I salute your experimentation and thank you for weighing in on the correspondence.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: ThatsMyFootThanks on March 19, 2024, 06:29:16 AM
I think that the Hivers expand so quickly compared to other factions that even weakening them wouldn't do it. I think to balance them for a more vanilla friendly experience (cause not everybody has the same skill at the game), you need to make them less aggressive, less prone to quick expansion. You probably don't even need to touch their ships. If there would be a setting to make them expand at a rate that the player would be comfortable with, I think that would work better. Cause then the challenge of beating them would still be there, but you could take your time in doing so without being hurried by their every present looming threat.
I am leaning toward the "column A" option I mentioned earlier and it seems you are of the same opinion. I have been doing some "research" on discord reading up on what players are saying there. By separating the wheat from the chaff I did see some interesting ideas like having them hibernate and only appear after several cycles. Thing is, I am pretty much a noob when it comes to Java so I am going to try and implement some of the ideas I saw like that one but I suspect I will be just doing close to what you state in the end.
Just my 2 cents.
OoOoo a tip,  thank you! :)
I have beat them with an odd combination of modded factions before: Carriers from the UAF, bulky cruisers from the Roider's Union, Some fast annoying ships from vanilla and DA and even a couple Mobile Armor suits from AA. I'm not very good at the game, and I'm not looking for a challenge either. I just enjoy building cool looking ships and seeing what works and what doesn't.
Personally I do not use the cookie cutter builds I see online. I also enjoy experimenting and seeing what I can build. A core philosophy behind my playable faction mods is giving options to players that are not available in the vanilla game. When I play, it is always as an independent and generally as a scavenger that only uses what I salvage or a miner that only earns credits from mining/refining. I rarely play as a faction commissioned captain, even with the factions I created. Though, TBH, I do follow their fleets sometimes in hopes there may be some floating ships from their factions I can snag after a battle ;)

I salute your experimentation and thank you for weighing in on the correspondence.

Hey, no problem! If it helps you in any way, then that's great :)
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: bibigun23 on March 19, 2024, 03:06:56 PM
Just respectfully spamming one more hello to my fav modder Dazs. I'll do so next month too propably :3
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 19, 2024, 03:23:20 PM
Hey, no problem! If it helps you in any way, then that's great :)
Indeed it does.
Just respectfully spamming one more hello to my fav modder Dazs. I'll do so next month too propably :3
Lol thank you, free publicity is always a fun treat! :)

I plan to put aside some time this weekend to do a deep dive on Hiver comments here and on discord and combine what I find there with what is already commented upon here since the last update. So get your comments in by then and I'll consider them as well.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Shogouki on March 24, 2024, 04:15:37 PM
Hey Dazs, I saw your request to Histidine on the Nexerelin thread and wanted to ask if it would be just as easy to make the delay in Hiver activity variable from 1 to X number of years so that players who like to take their time exploring and doing the Galatia missions don't feel rushed to need to be in a position to save the sector so quickly?  No worries if not, I just wanted to see about the possibility.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 24, 2024, 04:32:59 PM
Hey Dazs, I saw your request to Histidine on the Nexerelin thread and wanted to ask if it would be just as easy to make the delay in Hiver activity variable from 1 to X number of years so that players who like to take their time exploring and doing the Galatia missions don't feel rushed to need to be in a position to save the sector so quickly?  No worries if not, I just wanted to see about the possibility.
Hello there Shogouki, always a pleasure to hear from you. I tried several iterations of code to get it to work until I reached out to Histidine. I am self taught and when there are holes in what I can do, I try and figure it out myself so I can learn along the way. I had a hard time finding examples of how Nexerelin handles invasions, though I did figure out how to adjust their fleet strength, I just could not find a function that adjusted the time they start invading so I figured my next best option is to reach out to the person that maintains the code for Nexerelin.

I settled for a 1 year wait as a baseline but hopefully if my code structure is correct, I can make that 365 into a variable number that a player can change to their liking. I am just hamstrung by my lack of knowledge and hopefully Histidine can point me in the correct direction. I am sure there is a way to do what you suggest but essentially I do not know what I don't know if that makes sense. 
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Shogouki on March 24, 2024, 05:05:00 PM
Perfectly understandable, I just thought I'd ask just in case Histidine does know how to make it a user defined duration so you could bring that up to him.  I'm not even a newbie coder so I completely understand if it's more trouble than it's worth but thought I'd ask just in case it turns out to be a simple addition to your mod.  I know Kaysaar has a user defined delay in AotD for NPC factions sending out science expeditions so I thought it might definitely be worth it to ask if the same thing were possible with a faction becoming "active" or hostile.  Again, no worries if it's more trouble than it's worth!
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 26, 2024, 02:21:56 AM
Perfectly understandable, I just thought I'd ask just in case Histidine does know how to make it a user defined duration so you could bring that up to him.  I'm not even a newbie coder so I completely understand if it's more trouble than it's worth but thought I'd ask just in case it turns out to be a simple addition to your mod.  I know Kaysaar has a user defined delay in AotD for NPC factions sending out science expeditions so I thought it might definitely be worth it to ask if the same thing were possible with a faction becoming "active" or hostile.  Again, no worries if it's more trouble than it's worth!
Hey there Shogouki, sorry for the delay in responding, things have been a bit rough IRL. No worries at all, I think it is a good idea and plan to implement it if I can. I am still awaiting a response from Histidine that will hopefully shed some light. In the mean time I will try again to go over the code in Nex and see if I can figure something out. So stay tuned, my free time is limited atm but I do plan to still work on my mods as I can.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Shogouki on March 26, 2024, 02:58:09 AM
Oh no worries!  Real life should always take precedence and on top of that you don't owe anyone a quick reply, just the fact that you put any time at all into making these wonderful mods available is a gift.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 26, 2024, 03:49:56 AM
Oh no worries!  Real life should always take precedence and on top of that you don't owe anyone a quick reply, just the fact that you put any time at all into making these wonderful mods available is a gift.
Aww your so sweet :)

Edit: I just received a reply on the Nexerelin thread as I was posting this reply. Apparently there is no API for a faction specific invasion delay so my initial idea is a no go. Histidine did give me a direction that I can investigate but it is uncharted territory for me so I guess stay tuned to the brave adventures of the intrepid hero Dazs as he tries to wrap his head around Java! :D
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Shogouki on March 26, 2024, 02:14:50 PM
Oh no worries!  While it would be cool it's certainly not a necessary change so please don't let it distract you from other things you'd like to do.

Though I was wondering if it's possible to make the Hivers just inactive, like completely and not just invasions, until a certain trigger.  It was only recently that I learned that Legio won't start spawning their daemon fleets until certain conditions are met and wondered if there were possibly other ways to restrict the Hivers that would effectively prevent them from invading even if there's no specific way to deactivate just invasions.  I wish I felt like I had the mental energy to learn Java to explore modding Starsector.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.11 - 02/03/24
Post by: Dazs on March 26, 2024, 04:58:36 PM
Oh no worries!  While it would be cool it's certainly not a necessary change so please don't let it distract you from other things you'd like to do.
It's cool, Hiver is next in line for an update so any suggestions are welcome.
Though I was wondering if it's possible to make the Hivers just inactive, like completely and not just invasions, until a certain trigger.  It was only recently that I learned that Legio won't start spawning their daemon fleets until certain conditions are met and wondered if there were possibly other ways to restrict the Hivers that would effectively prevent them from invading even if there's no specific way to deactivate just invasions.
Oh no worries!  While it would be cool it's certainly not a necessary change so please don't let it distract you from other things you'd like to do.
That is the first I am hearing of that so it'll take a bit of a deep dive to see if I can do it. That is an interesting idea and I'll look into it this week and see what I can do.
I wish I felt like I had the mental energy to learn Java to explore modding Starsector.
It is quite the journey starting from zero. There are several guides on the forum and the discord if you are truly interested. I've been doing this for three years and am still picking up things so yea it is a lot of mental energy but it is not like you have a deadline to meet. What I did to keep me focused was I started with an idea for a faction mod and asked myself:
Starting with those questions I used them to guide what I was trying to do. The faction purpose was the core focus and the ships were about how that faction brought that theory to life. I could say the same about a utility mod. I made ore refinery because I had an irritation that every time I came across a mining station I would have to dump all that lovely ore into space because no fleet could handle all that in their cargo. That irritation led me to think about how it could be handled. Essentially what I am saying is, if you want to make a mod then inspire yourself. You may find yourself making more than you realize you are currently capable of.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.1.2 - 03/27/24
Post by: Dazs on March 27, 2024, 04:26:53 PM
v1.1.2 released today - Save compatible with v1.11
   -Changed the numbering system for the mod versions going forward using the standard decimal format - example this update would have been 1.12 and is now 1.1.2
   -Added instructions on how to change the difficulty level of the mod to the README file and Forum OP that outlines all the optionals
   -Added Sundog's Ruthless Sector mod as a recommendation on the forum OP since it adds Remnant fleets in hyperspace that will intercept Hiver invasion fleets (and you :))
   -Added no_drop and no_sell tags in unrecoverable_ship_data for the Caelifera, Scarabaeidae, Gangis and Creatonotos -TY Joejoemyo for noting my oopsie :)
   -Added a new optional file to make wings unrecoverable - Instructions to enable it is in the README and forum OP - TY Joejoemyo for the idea
   -Added instructions to the README and Forum OP on how to manually adjust the difficulty level of the mod
   -Added a ZIP with pre-configured setting files that are intended for a more vanilla plus playthrough with few mods enabled for players who do not want to do the above manual adjustments - instructions in the README
      -The files in the ZIP lower their aggression, halves the invasion and colony fleet frequency, lowers their officer & ship quality, the number and size of ships in a fleet, and turns off saturation bombing
   -Added instructions to the README and Forum OP on how to delay invasions using the LunaLib mod settings for Nexerelin on the game menu - Note, effects ALL faction invasions      
   -Updated the version checker to the latest version of Starsector
   -Updated the replacement ships ZIP to the current version of the mod (1.1.2)

Sorry it took me so long to release this optional difficulty update since Demiurge asked for it on February 19. It has been requested a couple times after but what really spurred me was Spaceboi deciding to discontinue his you tube series due to how much he was struggling playing against them in a lightly modded game. Included in this update is a new file labeled Vplus.zip that has preconfigured difficulty settings for a more vanilla play. I tested several iterations of difficulty before finally settling on what I think is balanced for a less modded game by using Sapceboi's posted enabled mods as a baseline:
Spoiler
enabled Mods:
 "aotd_lost_glory",
  "Cryo_but_better",
  "aod_core",
  "aod_vos",
  "lw_console",
  "fleetsizebydp",
  "HIVER",
  "lw_lazylib",
  "lunalib",
  "MagicLib",
  "MoreBarMissions",
  "MoreMilitaryMissions",
  "nexerelin",
  "swp",
  "speedUp",
  "which_industry",
  "shaderLib"
[close]
There are also instructions on how to manually adjust them to your specific wants but I figured using Spaceboi's mod list as a baseline for the ZIP represented a vanilla plus game with not faction mods enabled.

Also I apologize for it all being manual adjustments but my brain just cannot seem to figure how to integrate Lunalib.

Enjoy!
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.1.2 - 03/27/24
Post by: Shogouki on March 27, 2024, 04:29:29 PM
Oh very awesome, thank you!
Title: Re: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.1.2 - 03/27/24
Post by: Dazs on March 27, 2024, 11:49:09 PM
Oh very awesome, thank you!
What a nice comment to wake up to!  ;D