Fractal Softworks Forum
Starsector => General Discussion => Topic started by: Locklave on September 16, 2021, 02:25:41 PM
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I know they need a mid range/high end frigate(s), they got tons of junk and the current best is Lasher.
Maybe a destroyer size carrier that isn't a junk ship.
What all is missing relative to other tech levels for size and role? I assume some of them will be more high end with the burn changes. Feel free to mention midline or high tech if you feel a spot is missing. I'm just trying to quantify everything in my brain so it's all welcome.
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Idk if he will be adding frigates but alex showed us a new lowtech destroyer and cruiser on his Twitter for the next update
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Low tech lack punchy ships and or mobile ships..
Its too easy to kite/out dps lowtech ships frontaly... lasher and onslaught can duel frontaly stuff thanks to ship system (lasher) or build in extra guns(onslaught) but all the other whatever their type, Mule Enforcer Condor More Dominator are too slow or too weakly armed to pose a serious threat to things below or above their size.
In every low tech run i do i have to rely on lasher and onslaught a lot to get things done...all the other onyl seem to hodlt he line but never succed in breaking any ennemy shields
so for me low tech need a fast destroyer or cruiser that dont cost too much DP.
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It's worth noting that Alex doesn't consider each individual tech as required to stand on its own, so unless there are missing roles in the entire game, you might simply have to contend with "just use other tech equivalent".
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Yeah i admit i wad going with the every tech should be self sufficient point of view, which may not be what the creator is aimign for and its a problem on my side of things.
Still feel like the low tech lack a cheap low tech cruiser and maybe a costly frigate or a more classic destroyer that is not a brick with fun like the enforcer.
for ship that are supposed to have a slow and steady/heavy balistic spam gameplay they tend to not be the best in either of those...
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I think as long as you throw Midline into the mix, you can successfully exclude either one of the other techs?
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Yeah midline are very good hole filler they arent super nice alone but go very well with high or low tech
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as far as i can tell this was done intentionally to discourage players from refusing to mix tech levels
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Why would Alex want to discourage playstyles? What actual purpose would that even serve? It doesn't look intentional at all to me.
Seems more likely he just added stuff based on what was required overall and what was inspiring him at the time. Like the new Low tech destroyer, it's required and he had good ideas for it.
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And what if each tech level was complete, with all roles filled?
There'd be no point to one-tech restrictions, because it wouldn't actually be any different.
It doesn't discourage playstyles, it creates them.
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And what if each tech level was complete, with all roles filled?
It means high-tech blueprint pack becomes less of a joke, unless Alex insists on throwing everything into elite singletons, which is kind of lame.
High-tech should have a carrier smaller than Astral. Something to add (along with Fury) to the high-tech blueprint pack. Wolf, Shrike, and Apogee only is a letdown, compared to the smorgasbord the player gets from the low-tech and midline blueprint packs.
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I honestly think all tech levels are pretty much complete (as of the low tech additions in next update, which I thought were very much missing before). Sure there's niche gaps to fill but it doesn't seem necessary unless something very unique gets added. Only thing I think still needs to exist is as Megas mentioned, a high tech carrier that's not a capital. It's funny that Tri Tach follow a carrier heavy doctrine but they really don't have anything to use except Herons. Which are completely fine and good but most factions use them.
Also would be a plus to reinforce the high tech blueprint. I don't mind it much personally but if each tech level is supposed to be the same and equal then why the hell is almost every high tech ship some sort of rare find.
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Why would Alex want to discourage playstyles? What actual purpose would that even serve? It doesn't look intentional at all to me.
I think it isn't to discourage playstyles, but to make tech themed playthroughs feel different, since you lack some roles and have to work around it.
It also seems pretty intentional to me, since the only faction that doesn't use multiple techs is Luddic Church. Speaking of that, why would Alex make "techs" and not faction line-ups, if not because they because they aren't meant to be exclusive and supposed to stand entirely on their own.
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Also would be a plus to reinforce the high tech blueprint. I don't mind it much personally but if each tech level is supposed to be the same and equal then why the hell is almost every high tech ship some sort of rare find.
I eventually raid Culann (almost) to the ground because Tri-Tachyon has too many exclusive ship blueprints and weapons. Few are shared by Diktat which is an even harder nut to crack and raid, and I do not raid Sindria for blueprints. I probably raid Culann more than any other industry world except maybe New Maxios, and I save Culann for last.
Raid order: New Maxios (easiest), Asher (Legion), Kapteyn Starworks (big pirate ships), Raesvelg (weapons and XIV ships), Culann (rare high-tech everything), Kazeron (Champion).
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Same here, I've destroyed their battlestation so many times it's boring. Usually there's a thing or two that I'd like to get but there's SOOOO MUCH unique stuff there that after the raid I always go "oh right yeah this also exists". Back when there was no delay on raids I think I brough stability down to -73 or something like that.
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Same here, I've destroyed their battlestation so many times it's boring. Usually there's a thing or two that I'd like to get but there's SOOOO MUCH unique stuff there that after the raid I always go "oh right yeah this also exists". Back when there was no delay on raids I think I brough stability down to -73 or something like that.
I raid for all blueprints just to force the historian to cough up Legion XIV blueprint and possible colony items I want. (I want Dealmaker Holosuite and maybe the Biofactory, and if I cannot find one from loot, then historian is the only option left.)
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And then there's me that wants a Atlas Mk3 that's just got its cargo holds replaced by entire belts of small missiles
I DO mean belts, like 40 small missile mounts total to spam swarmers like an absolute champ...
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I think it isn't to discourage playstyles, but to make tech themed playthroughs feel different, since you lack some roles and have to work around it.
It also seems pretty intentional to me, since the only faction that doesn't use multiple techs is Luddic Church.
I think reading deeply into it like that will have people concluding all kinds of madness that has no connection to actual intent. How about this, he's not done making ships yet. That could equally be the reason for the current case. He is still clearly making new ships.
The tech level playstyles are already distinct, not sure how you can argue the missing roles is making things feel different (in a good way). You can say all destroyers are just destroyer but we all know they fight completely different, even inside the same tech level. Low tech having crappy frigates for example is not a themed thing that makes the playthroughs feel different, it's a problem that limits Low tech playthroughs. You are saying less options is more options and/or that less options is creating a good gameplay thing. I disagree with that.
What factions choose to use is not an indicator of Alex's intent for the players.
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No, they're saying that limits create thematics.
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... Low tech having crappy frigates for example is not a themed thing that makes the playthroughs feel different, it's a problem that limits Low tech playthroughs. You are saying less options is more options and/or that less options is creating a good gameplay thing.
A bit more about the philosophy of gameplay here, but sometimes limits are what differentiates interesting gameplay. Like you say with low tech their current frigates are bad - so when I play lowtech I use Condors with Thunders (or other interceptors before I get Thunders) and do a decent amount of micro with their commands to fill the gap. The limitation makes me need to play in a new way.
When I play high tech I use their amazing frigate and wolfpack, but have no carriers below astral size to put interceptors on. There are things I can do with Tempests that Thunders can't do, and vice versa, so my anti-small ship strategy and gameplay are entirely different (and anti-large ship too, but that comes from other limitations in high tech).
Otoh, too many limits can be just as bad as too few limits; they need to be challenges to guide and overcome, rather than frustrations/impossibilities, and the perception of that can change from player to player.
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I know that limits create thematic elements. We are talking about the intent of Alex here which is being interpreted via current game design.
He's saying Alex created those specific limitations with those systems to create those thematic elements. I disagree and the fact that Alex is filling missing ship roles pokes holes in that thinking.
It's being implied that the glaring holes in tech levels are intentional.
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Ah, my bad! I misread :)