Fractal Softworks Forum
Starsector => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kanjejou on September 13, 2021, 10:07:43 AM
-
Just got my hand on a legion 14 and its loadout seem way more effectiv for a battlecarrier than the standard version.
The two large missile are so much better than the two balistic its not even funny, yes your are ammo limited but the fact its a free flux twin weapons with Range and Damages make it so *** goood.
The two large balistic look very nice but you only get more range for obscene price or very high flux
Once you get a Legion 14 why use a standard one?
-
Well in fairness the standard one can still be replaced.
-
I like how the standard legion can have 5 medium missiles + longer ranged/more efficient main guns than an XIV. I think the XIV is a little better, but mainly because of the stat boosts rather than the mounts, which I think are roughly equal.
-
I can't stop laughing at the "STD Legion", what did it have sex with an Onslaught lmao. (I get how the acronym makes sense but it's still unfortunate)
Anyways I think both of them are decent, one can have crazy burst, one is a bit more suited for lange range pew pew with guns, both have pros and cons. But at the end of the day both are capital battlecarriers which are a pain to outfit and put officers in. Not enough OP for usual stuff and officer will be weaker than in a specialized ship. Fun to use tho, especially in mid game.
-
I really prefer the XIV legion because hurricanes exist. I just run 5x HVD for 1000 range firepower anyway. It's consistently one of the highest damage output ships in my fleet, and like 60%-70% of that damage is just hurricanes with as much ammo as I can get.
-
I'm fine with the mainline Legion. Fill that thing up with Annihilators and a couple of large kinetic weapons. Nothing is going to have fun with that.
-
One of the things going for Legion XIV is it is one of the few ships that can use large dumb-fire missiles well. While it is a battlecarrier, it can be built like a missileship instead and the bays completely ignored (or mining pods installed in bays) in favor of missiles and guns.
Standard Legion is a gimped Onslaught with fighter bays, which is not very useful this release. The closest thing to a Legion XIV in terms of warship with missiles is the Champion (playership) or Radiant (AI wingman only).
I would prefer standard Legion over Legion XIV, but with way things are, I am better off with Onslaught if I want a gunship. The only reason I would want Legion is my fleet is because I want to fling Hammers or Reapers with the large missile mounts.
Historian is necessary for the blueprint. Not even Hegemony has the Legion XIV blueprint, only historian.
-
I personally dislike the XIV as far as piloting goes, as i like to take great advantage of my burn drive and make use of the "battle" part of the battlecarrier.
The XIV is better for a rear support carrier role.
-
Sometimes you already have tons of L Missile slots in your fleet, than I miss the large ballistics, would be nice if it were composite.
-
My standard Legion could never beat an Onslaught in AI controlled 1 vs 1 combat from the fitting screen, but the Legion 14 sure can. It's a heck of an improvement in my limited gaming experience. I kind of like it.
-
I'm requesting that it's never called the STD Legion again.
-
I'm requesting it's only ever called the STD Legion henceforth.
-
At some point some wag is going to come along and say that the vanilla version of the game should henceforth be called STD Starsector.
-
Where the Legion XIV really comes out on top is the fact that Large Missiles don't generate flux. You can actually cram all the medium mounts with good weapons and still use them versus getting Large Ballistics and being forced to carefully manage the Mediums or make them Missiles. Now that Expanded Missile Racks can be built in and you can get Missile Specialization, Legion XIV can pack a ton of very powerful flux-free ordinance that can last a whole battle. Not to mention the fighters can be used to open holes for the strike weapons rather than the other way around.
Standard Legion is a Dominator+ with Fighters, which is good but not great. Legion XIV is kind of its own thing that you can really lean into and it becomes perhaps the best missile boat in the game.
-
I really prefer the XIV legion because hurricanes exist. I just run 5x HVD for 1000 range firepower anyway. It's consistently one of the highest damage output ships in my fleet, and like 60%-70% of that damage is just hurricanes with as much ammo as I can get.
I'm just now getting to read your post and I'm wondering if you invest any OP in fighters or just leave the bays empty? Also, what hullmods are you using? Thanks!
-
I'm not sure if there's a single ship in the game where you would want to leave the fighter bays empty. Even just plain ol' Talons for 2 OP will do meaningful stuff in battle. OP costs for fighters compared to weapons are waaaay skewed towards fighters so it's always good to have something at least decent, even now when fighters are weaker this patch. But that's just my 2 cents.
-
Fighters like talons burn through crew. Definitely not free damage. Late game it's mostly irrelevant but it can matter a lot early on.
-
I'm not sure if there's a single ship in the game where you would want to leave the fighter bays empty.
If there were no mining pods, I probably leave bays empty for Odyssey and Legion XIV built for missile spam because I need all the OP I can get. Also, if I want to use fighters (other than pods), then Expanded Deck Crew becomes a must. (Not enough OP for Deck Crew, ITU, and missile mods.) Also, if I want AI to use such a ship, maybe no fighters means they do not set to Engage and deny themselves zero-flux speed.
But Mining Pods are mildly useful as meat shields, and I sometimes use them on Odyssey and Legion XIV when guns and/or missiles are the primary focus. If I really want to use fighters on a capital, I use Astral or maybe standard Legion if I want to dabble with guns. (If I use Odyssey, I want to pilot it like a Shrike and shoot things up with double plasma, and if I use Legion XIV, I want to goof around with Hammer Barrage or Cyclone Reaper because no other playership aside from Champion can use those dumb-fires effectively. If I want Locusts or MIRVs, I use Conquest instead of Legion XIV.)
-
Thanks folks! That helps me understand a bit better. I'll play around with the fittings on the Legion XIV and see what I can get. I found if I fit bombers that it could take an Onslaught in the fittings screen one on one, then it absolutely tanked when I took it to a fleet fight, leaving me to give up on it in the current patch. Then I found this thread and thought I might take a second look at it as a gunship / missile platform since others had success that way.
Edit: BTW, I had no idea mining pods were a zero OP option. :) Nice to know.
-
Xyphos are excellent for Legions that are acting as gunships but they are expensive, so there usually needs to be some other compromise to mount them (going 'missile cheap' with dual hammers on an XIV is one possibility, though a bit risky in an AI build). Cheap interceptors like Talons and Wasps will contribute even in endgame fights (crew losses don't matter, as rough as that is to say). Thunders are always good because thunders are good. There is no need for expanded deck crew for any of those to work well - the total rebuild time for wings is low. I would say bombers are a poor choice for the Legion because they are both very OP expensive and because they are very rough on replacement rate so DO want expanded deck crew, which Legion is hard pressed to afford.
In terms of acting as a missile+gun ship, Conquests are just better. Cheaper, faster, better guns and flux, and has more missile mounts if going all in with expanded racks and ECCM (AI can't use dumbfires up front but the player can). Using Legions well requires getting value out of the fighters which is harder this patch as fighters took a hit, making them a bit underpowered at the moment.
-
Xyphos are excellent for Legions that are acting as gunships but they are expensive, so there usually needs to be some other compromise to mount them (going 'missile cheap' with dual hammers on an XIV is one possibility, though a bit risky in an AI build). Cheap interceptors like Talons and Wasps will contribute even in endgame fights (crew losses don't matter, as rough as that is to say). Thunders are always good because thunders are good. There is no need for expanded deck crew for any of those to work well - the total rebuild time for wings is low. I would say bombers are a poor choice for the Legion because they are both very OP expensive and because they are very rough on replacement rate so DO want expanded deck crew, which Legion is hard pressed to afford.
In terms of acting as a missile+gun ship, Conquests are just better. Cheaper, faster, better guns and flux, and has more missile mounts if going all in with expanded racks and ECCM (AI can't use dumbfires up front but the player can). Using Legions well requires getting value out of the fighters which is harder this patch as fighters took a hit, making them a bit underpowered at the moment.
Thanks for the info. I'm still in the experimental phase, though I just had a fight I couldn't believe. I did build in harden shields and reinforced bulkheads so I gave my Legion XIV an advantage the AI Paragon didn't have, though the Paragon is 60 DP and my Legion XIV is 40. I used the fitting screen's one on one and went against a Paragon which the modified Legion XIV beat while still maintaining what appears to be 60% hull and no frontal armor. What happens in a fleet fight is anyone's guess, but this was promising to me.
You hit the nail on the head when it comes to the bombers in the current patch, based on my experiences. They are simply eaten up by nearby ship point defense. Thanks for reaffirming. I can also see where in the players hands this would be a good platform for the Dual Hammers. Gosh wouldn't that be something!
Here's the build that beat the Paragon under complete AI control:
4x mining pods at 0 OP
2x Hurricane MIRV Launchers
5x Hypervelocity Drivers
8x Vulcan
Built in ->Hardened Shields and Reinforced Bulkheads
added ->Integrated Targeting Unit and Stabilized Shields
-
I used to think that the normal Legion was trash compared to having two large missile slots on the Legion XIV. But I have found I much prefer the normal Legion given how easy they are to find! In my current Nex playthrough I destroyed a Luddic Church vengeance fleet and was able to salvage a Legion with 3 s-mods. I don't even have the skill for that! It has Expanded Missile Racks, Reinforced Bulkheads, and Heavy Armor for free, thank you Nex!
The fact that you can put 5 Annihilator pods on the Legion is amazing. Paired with expanded missile racks and officer missile skills, you have 360 shots in each missile pod. The large ballistic turrets let you put in Gauss Cannons, one of my favorite weapons in the game with very long range, high projectile speed, and very high per-shot damage effective against both heavy armor and shield.
The Legion doesn't have great flux stats but maxed vents + flux distributor gives just enough flux to power 2 Gauss Cannons, and the 5 Annihilator pods are flux-free. Who needs to power a shield if you have 2000+ armor and stay at 1500+ distance? This setup annihilates stations below Star Fortress size, and can fully occupy the point defense of one entire side of a Star Fortress as part of a fleet of capitals. The Legion is also really hard to kill--heavy armor, reinforced bulkheads, and vulcans in all the small projectile slots make it a tough bird.
I think all the low-tech capital ships are hamstrung by bad flux and shield stats in the end. The best use I have found for my Legions or Onslaughts is baiting the fire of scary targets while my two Paragons actually do all the work. Legions are also very half-baked when it comes to being carriers. Unlike an Astral, you will not be deleting cruisers or larger with waves of teleporting bombers. If you spend the OP on good fighters, expanded deck crew, recovery shuttles, etc., you will gimp the rest of your Legion fit. I prefer Sparks personally, because 4 Spark squadrons are cheap on DP but fairly effective when massed against harassing frigates and destroyers. Xyphos would be interesting to go with a Battle Legion too but you might have to forgo hull mods or flux stats to accommodate them.
-
On the odd occasion I am outfitting a standard Legion, I have found doing a Dominator loadout + fighters tends to be solid.
-
If I use standard Legion, I use good fighters because otherwise, what is the point? Just get Onslaught instead. With standard Legion, I use two big guns, few medium guns, and everything else into fighters and Expanded Deck Crew, plus ITU. It has barely enough OP for a spartan loadout of guns and fighters.
"Dominator loadout + fighters" it is.