Fractal Softworks Forum
Starsector => Suggestions => Topic started by: intrinsic_parity on August 15, 2021, 07:36:49 PM
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I'll preface this by stating that I'm playing with some mods that likely caused the specific issue that made me make this thread, but I think the underlying issue is not mood related.
Basically, I found a legion XIV with built in DTC, which really sucks because ITU is a straight upgrade that I can never use on the ship now. I think it should either be impossible to get DTC built in on a ship, or it should be possible to upgrade it to ITU. I honestly think DTC should just never be built in on AI ships in general, it doesn't make sense to do it when ITU exists.
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This exact scenario happened to me two runs ago. Pristine Legion XIV with built in DTC. I still took because it was early game and it was a huge find but it was a slight damper knowing that it could never get ITU.
I’m of the opinion that upon learning ITU, all iterations of DTC are replaced automatically, whether built in or not.
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:shrug: its basically a permanent d-mod that also increases the ship's DP by however much you'd have spent on ITU. i dont mind it, i think it's neat to have ships come incapable of running certain builds. Worst comes to worst I play with the industry mod that lets me hurl a ship that's ruined for me into the engineering bay to be pulled apart
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:shrug: its basically a permanent d-mod that also increases the ship's DP by however much you'd have spent on ITU. i dont mind it, i think it's neat to have ships come incapable of running certain builds. Worst comes to worst I play with the industry mod that lets me hurl a ship that's ruined for me into the engineering bay to be pulled apart
By the endgame, I will not run any dmod that has non-trivial downsides. Why would I decrease my combat power for no reason when I have functionally unlimited money? I also work towards removing unnecessary d-mods in the mid game for the same reason, but I will put up with them under the right circumstances. In this game, I will end up taking the third legion XIV I found and make a better build for my late game fleet and I already have an underpowered one with built in ADF for mid game, so it turns what should be an exciting find into a useless disappointment (in my current situation anyway). If it was ITU, it would be great.
There's just no reason for DTC to ever be built in when the only reason it exists is so that you have something to use on capitals/cruisers before you find ITU.
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By the endgame you should be able to get pristine hulls of any ship anyway. I will take built-in DTC over built-in repair unit any day of the week, should we remove all "non-meta" s-mods from ai ships then?
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I think s-mods on AI ships should be curated yeah. Random s-mods don't make much sense to me. Why would the enemies pick random hull mods to put on their ships?
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Because it makes the game more varied and interesting. If every ship always has ITU + armor/shields + EMR (or whatever meta combo you are running instead), we might as well remove s-mods altogether and replace them with bonus OP.
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It doesn't need to be one single set of 'perfect hull mods' but they should be some particularly good set for the hull. Maybe have a few good builds that randomly get selected.
Also, I think repair unit would be better than DTC. Repair unit is decent, and it lets me put actual ITU on. DTC is different from other hull mods in that it locks you out of ITU. At least with other mods, you can still put the mods you want on. DTC is a permanent -10% range basically.
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Meh, permanent -10% range is much better than having an s-mod slot wasted on the second cheapest hullmod in the game.
Honestly, I don't care either way. The vanilla s-mod system is just bad and wrong in general, and I replace it with a mod.
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It's 10 OP for +10% range and locking you into repair unit. That's pretty much a wash for me. Maybe slightly worse, but I'm not using the ship late game in either case, and it's whatever early on.
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Because it makes the game more varied and interesting.
If you use those ships.
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Honestly I'd like DTC to get some advantages over ITU so it's not a dead mod the moment you get ITU. I don't think there are any other hull mods that get obsoleted by another doing the same thing but better.
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Indeed, there is no other hullmod that becomes obsolete by another, but no other hullmod is so critical to cruisers or capitals functioning at all (outside of SO builds), either.
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Just give ITU by default.
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Indeed, there is no other hullmod that becomes obsolete by another, but no other hullmod is so critical to cruisers or capitals functioning at all (outside of SO builds), either.
Yeah, so having DTC and ITU be more of a sidegrade to each other would make outfitting a cruiser or capital not such a no-brainer.
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ITU is already "given by default" at combat 3. Since you don't lose hullmods after a respec, you can "trade" 1 story point for a whole set of elite hullmods (IPDAI + ITU + shields + EMR + ECCM).
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i like that ITU is just an upgrade to DTC that is locked behind skills. it may not feel as "clean" as trying to make them more of a sidegrade to eachother or justify ever taking one over the other but IMO it does a good job tying the skill system in to the ship customizing system -- better than only having hullmods locked behind skills. It gives it an interesting texture, a bit of a kink in the system that makes the two systems a little less, uhhhh, how would I put it... flat? Predictable? It's a little bit of a thread of designed frustration, to start a new game & be forced to make due with DTC & not be able to build the hullmod in for free OP yet bc ur gonna get ITU eventually.
it also makes it so that early level players cant get as much out of cruisers & capitals as later levels, making it a little more justifiable to hold off on shooting past frigates & destroyers
theres a lot of positives to the way it is now. it would be easy to flatten out the oddness of these two hullmods but i dont think that would actually improve the game. I find game design is a lot like carpentry -- you have to actively resist the urge to keep sanding, bc if you smooth something out too much you can wind up decreasing its quality instead of increasing it
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i like that ITU is just an upgrade to DTC that is locked behind skills.
It drops as a hullmod spec too, it's not locked to skills.
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I've never unlocked any hullmod with a skill. I always find them first.