Fractal Softworks Forum
Starsector => General Discussion => Topic started by: Coaxy on August 06, 2021, 07:41:57 PM
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I've always thought the Colossus MK2 sucked, but it's grown on me in .95
While it's nothing special (seeing as it is basically a drover or condor but with a worse ship system and no missile mounts), it's very available and the +100 strength it gives to raids can be pretty nice.
Does anyone else have "bad" ships that have a special place in their heart?
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The Enforcer definitely, awesome aesthetic and potential but just... "always the bridesmaid, never the bride" haha
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Heh, I expected to see the Enforcer here! Last version is was pretty awful. I think this version its joined the ranks of the other combat destroyers as being good. Extremely tough, high missiles/DP, 'ok' guns make it a solid heavy destroyer for cheap DP and I use it all the way to endgame.
For me its the Vigilance. I know its bad, but every time I see it launch 6 salamanders and it flames out an enemy capital I giggle with evil glee. I think it would be a decent support ship if its hull wasn't so fragile. Another 1000 hull (doubling it!) and reducing its DP to 4 and it would be in a rather good spot for missile support. Heck, replace fast missile racks with the Autoforge and make it into a mini Gryphon!
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Actually the Vigilance is pretty good for it's size.
My favorite bad ship is the Mule. A mule helped me quite alot through the beginning of my first Playthrough.
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The Enforcer definitely, awesome aesthetic and potential but just... "always the bridesmaid, never the bride" haha
100%
like, it has missiles and medium ballistics - throw SO on it or whatever... well, at least no one's going to complain lol
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Buffalo MKII.
I've been in love ever since I ran across a derelict one named "Necromancer".
Badass!
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Atlas mk II FOR LIFE. It's slow, sluggish, heavy and somewhat fragile for its size but I will never relinquish the power of two accelerated mjolnirs. Sure, you can outmaneuver it, sure you can probably burst it down, but GODS HELP YOUR PUNY, FRAGILE SOUL if you get caught in front of my Atlas II and my accelerator is up. BWUMPBWUMP BWUMPBWUMP BWUMPBWUMP BWUMPBWUMP BWUMPBWUMP KABOOM. What's that? You brought fighters? That's cute; I BROUGHT LOCUSTS. Few ships can do exactly what it can do, though you must accept some heavy tradeoffs to do so; I find the challenge worthwhile, especially for the price. Sure, a paragon can beat an atlas II...but can it beat THREE of them for the same or similar cost? Heheheheheheh...
It's also a respectable logistics vessel on the side. There's just so much to love; it's like captain Sysko said: "She's got flaws, but she's got teeth."
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I used to love the Hound, but it has become a bit too obsolete quite some releases ago. It used to be a underdog that could still bite, in the right hands. Dodging around enemy projectiles while waiting for the opportunity to unload in the enemy's rear, a tactic that could defeat most frigates and many destroyers. That was before ship systems, phase ships and officers. Nowadays there are just too many dangers on the battlefield for a small unshielded ship to survive long enough to be useful. The Kite has taken over a bit of the Hound's old role, but it just hasn't the same aura of panache to it.
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I used to love the Hound, but it has become a bit too obsolete quite some releases ago. It used to be a underdog that could still bite, in the right hands. Dodging around enemy projectiles while waiting for the opportunity to unload in the enemy's rear, a tactic that could defeat most frigates and many destroyers. That was before ship systems, phase ships and officers. Nowadays there are just too many dangers on the battlefield for a small unshielded ship to survive long enough to be useful. The Kite has taken over a bit of the Hound's old role, but it just hasn't the same aura of panache to it.
I feel the same way for the Wolf.
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i jsut cant help myself with kites. theyre such a bad ship, basically every ship in the game has at least 2 missile mounts on top of having an actual armament, but for some reason i just cant help myself
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I used to love the Hound, but it has become a bit too obsolete quite some releases ago. It used to be a underdog that could still bite, in the right hands. Dodging around enemy projectiles while waiting for the opportunity to unload in the enemy's rear, a tactic that could defeat most frigates and many destroyers. That was before ship systems, phase ships and officers. Nowadays there are just too many dangers on the battlefield for a small unshielded ship to survive long enough to be useful. The Kite has taken over a bit of the Hound's old role, but it just hasn't the same aura of panache to it.
Hmm, I think Alex mentioned that the Hound would be getting Damper Field as well as its standard Flare Launcher ship system, so I am excited to see if it will become maybe not amazing but at least competent in combat. They are pretty cheap (supply and deployment-wise) and provide cargo though, so no hard feelings either way.
The Kite probably isn't really considered that bad, but underused compared to the other frigates I think. I love filling some empty fleet slots with Kite(A) and slapping Atropos/Reapers, Expanded Missile Racks, and Reinforced Bulkheads, filling the rest of OP with cheap single weapon or Hardened Subsystems or whatever you can fit in, and then deploying them about halfway through a battle (when the DP starts tipping or a line ship or two goes down) so they can wreak havoc among the enemy. If you deploy them first then they rush ahead and die, but if you let the lines set up then they are actually relatively safe and will capitalize or create holes your larger (and more expensive) ships can take advantage of.
i jsut cant help myself with kites. theyre such a bad ship, basically every ship in the game has at least 2 missile mounts on top of having an actual armament, but for some reason i just cant help myself
"Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post." And this is what happens when I type too much :P
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The Kite probably isn't really considered that bad, but underused compared to the other frigates I think. I love filling some empty fleet slots with Kite(A) and slapping Atropos/Reapers, Expanded Missile Racks, and Reinforced Bulkheads, filling the rest of OP with cheap single weapon or Hardened Subsystems or whatever you can fit in, and then deploying them about halfway through a battle (when the DP starts tipping or a line ship or two goes down) so they can wreak havoc among the enemy. If you deploy them first then they rush ahead and die, but if you let the lines set up then they are actually relatively safe and will capitalize or create holes your larger (and more expensive) ships can take advantage of.
it must be a good strategy, since AI kites always manage to sneak a cheeky reaper on me once or twice a playthrough lol
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Actually the Vigilance is pretty good for it's size.
My favorite bad ship is the Mule. A mule helped me quite alot through the beginning of my first Playthrough.
The Mule is honestly a pretty good ship in the early game, when you're just putting together your fleet and are taking on small enough engagements that one of your freighters being able to participate in combat is a relevant contribution. It doesn't scale well, since its modest combat stats make it a liability more than an asset in any fight larger than a couple of Destroyers on either side and you can afford to have dedicated freighters in addition to dedicated combat ships, but it's not designed for those kind of fleets.
I'd also put Kites in the pile of ships that are actually pretty good at what they're meant for, which is being tremendous little jerks in tiny early game engagements.
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Again, Mule.
It's not the best at anything.
But it's big enough to carry a decent amount of cargo. It's tough and mobile enough to not be a complete liability in battle. It has enough weapons to to at least stall other ships.
And it has enough OP to multi-role fairly well on top of all that.
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Is the Mule considered a bad ship?
It always seemed an excellent early game choice to me.
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Venture.
It sucks when compared to most other proper cruisers.
But it slaps down on anything outside of it's weight class.
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Venture.
It sucks when compared to most other proper cruisers.
But it slaps down on anything outside of it's weight class.
Can the venture really be bad if all you want to do is make missiles go brr though?
Like, sure, maybe it's not optimal to slap a load of reapers on it but sometimes you just want a wall of delete, y'know?
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i was going to say Mule but in no way, shape, or form is it a "bad" ship. It's very competent early and remains useful as a multi-role ship out on the frontier.
I have a soft-spot for the Gemini, in theory because it could be a very versatile ship but isn't. Like the Mule, it could be a nice multi-role ship but it just do anything quite well enough to justify its existence in my fleet. With fighters being "less than" versions past, the Gemini just doesn't bring anything truly meaningful to a fight. The Mule is at least a tough nut to crack and thanks to Maneuvering Jets, isn't a sitting duck.
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The Mule is an extremely competent 'destroyer' for it's cost and utility.
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The humble Mudskipper. It has 70 cargo capacity and 40 fuel capacity for the low upkeep cost of 2 sup/m, 1 fuel/ly, and a tiny skeleton crew of 5. As a starter logistics ship it's perfect; incredibly cheap in both initial and long term cost, has a moderate amount of everything, enough op for 2 logistics hullmods, and can later be used to house additional crew or marines.
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I wouldn't call the Mudskipper bad, ha! It pretty much obsoletes all the other frigate cargo ships on top of being the best frigate crew carrier.
You want bad? Hermes, Mercury, Wayfarer, and Cerberus are bad. I have a soft spot for the Hermes, though - which is one of the reasons the Roider Union's Hermes conversion is their main frigate.
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Shepherd. I'm a loot *** so early on I always grab a bunch of them, making sure that I have at least 1 Salvage Rig. They have fairly decent cargo capacity until I get dedicated cargo ships. I usually end up with like a dozen or more of them, gradually replacing them with more Salvage Rigs and dedicated cargo ships as my combat fleet gets bigger.
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There is nothing better than Mudskipper MK.II! Greatest ship in the game, bar none!
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i should mod the mudskipper's hullmod off so its usable...
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Half of this thread: People who think ships not primarily focused on combat are "bad". Can't believe some of the responses here lmao, Shepherd and Mule are like A tier ships for early game. Kudos to the brave soul who mentioned Atlas MkII, at least someone understood the OP's question.
I really don't use ships I consider bad but if I had to choose I'd say Prometheus MkII, it just has such good mounts and you can do so many builds with it. The only reason it's unusable is its burn speed.
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To be fair it IS hard to define what a bad ship really is.
Even within a single kind of ship even the less effective ones aren't all that bad really.
And if they are a favourite, are they even that bad?
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And if they are a favourite, are they even that bad?
Depends on how much you like it to sacrifice optimization. You might as well call them guilty pleasure ships.
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Sacrifice optimisation?!
I would never play a dakka dakka low tech fleet! ;D
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Shepherd is not a bad ship overall. If anything, it is a bit munchkin for its size in non-combat roles. It is mediocre as a normal combat ship (but good enough to auto-resolve fights with), but its campaign stats are great. 100 cargo plus 50 more from the hullmod that converts built-in bay for more cargo (150 total), and the hullmod that boosts salvage.
Shepherd is useful for the entire game, and my fleet almost always has at least one. It is useful for the first few fights early, then it becomes a useful stat-stick and auto-resolve grunt for the rest of the game.
Mudskipper is cheap option for hauling more people. I have used one occasionally.
Mule is not the best brawler, but it is a tank for its size. It is kind of like an Enforcer with less guns and flux. It was useful in the previous 0.9a releases, at least for those who rely on junk from pirates. They did not seem as effective as before in this release, sort of like Paragon becoming more fragile now.
Gemini is bad because fighters are bad now.
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Half of this thread: People who think ships not primarily focused on combat are "bad". Can't believe some of the responses here lmao, Shepherd and Mule are like A tier ships for early game. Kudos to the brave soul who mentioned Atlas MkII, at least someone understood the OP's question.
I really don't use ships I consider bad but if I had to choose I'd say Prometheus MkII, it just has such good mounts and you can do so many builds with it. The only reason it's unusable is its burn speed.
FOR. LIFE.
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Venture.
It sucks when compared to most other proper cruisers.
But it slaps down on anything outside of it's weight class.
Venture, I completely agree. I wish it was militarized as default, the main problem with it's viability is the 7 speed, since you get pushed into wasting tons of OP to make it so it doesn't slow your fleet down.
I wouldn't expect it to punch at it's size level since it's basically a support cruiser that everyone can build. So I can accept that.
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Venture, I completely agree. I wish it was militarized as default, the main problem with it's viability is the 7 speed, since you get pushed into wasting tons of OP to make it so it doesn't slow your fleet down.
I wouldn't expect it to punch at it's size level since it's basically a support cruiser that everyone can build. So I can accept that.
FWIW I think the big downsides the Venture has is its speed (both in and out of combat). While it can lack staying power in combat, it's actually pretty good at spamming missiles. Throwing a bunch of reapers or 20 harpoons/sabots is pretty good, assuming that the venture actually, y'know, makes it to the fight before it's over.
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Venture loses to a good combat destroyer or even a high end frigate 1v1, it just takes a long time.
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... it just takes a long time.
Exactly what makes it great. Great distraction!
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+1 for pirate colossus. The main draw for me is that it's the only vanilla ship with ground support that's considered civilian and doesn't eat into your skill limits.
I also love my kites, but I don't think people consider them "bad".
Early game I always include at least one mercury in my fleet, just for the active flares in fights. Shame about the civilian-boosting skill going away...
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Shepherd. I'm a loot *** so early on I always grab a bunch of them, making sure that I have at least 1 Salvage Rig. They have fairly decent cargo capacity until I get dedicated cargo ships. I usually end up with like a dozen or more of them, gradually replacing them with more Salvage Rigs and dedicated cargo ships as my combat fleet gets bigger.
Why do you switch em out? I usually just keep the shepards in case it's an OH *** moment of fleet combat. They actually perform pretty well as escort ships; even in those massive fleet battles late game
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+1 for pirate colossus. The main draw for me is that it's the only vanilla ship with ground support that's considered civilian and doesn't eat into your skill limits.
Ground combat package
Decent cargo space
Fighter bays
I don't consider it a bad ship. It's a decent civilian combat freighter. If I have space for one with okay d-mods it's an easy addition to my fleet. I don't feel like I'm lying to myself about it being useful because I like it.
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Oh right, you can get rid of pirate Colossus's fighter bays for more cargo space. That's quite a good deal, for a makeshift freighter/troop transport.
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The base Brawler. Slow and rather defenseless, but has two scary big gun slots. Quite a good distraction ship during the early game, however as soon as cruisers appear it won't be that viable (and often gets caught due to being so sluggish).
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Brawlers are at their worst in the early game, when you are fighting mainly small ships. They get better once you start fighting cruisers or capitals, since long range builds can be cheap harassers that are hard to kill (except if you're fighting Tri-Tachyon...).