If Starsector doesn't absolutely wreck those numbers when it hits Steam, I'm going to be rather shocked; it's a far better video game.Agreed! Only real hiccup I foresee for Starsector when it hits the shelves is players finding ship movement controls counter-intuitive. I still strafe the wrong way sometimes when my flagship is facing downward.
And the what-to-recover-post-combat thing is really neat.Yep! Post battle salvage is one of the few things I think Highfleet does better. If Starsector didn't already have a perfectly serviceable system in place I'd suggest that you do something similar. Based off of what I've seen so far, I also think the strategic layer of Highfleet is much better than Starsector's, but that's not what Starsector is really about/built for, so it's not a fair thing to compare.
Yep! Post battle salvage is one of the few things I think Highfleet does better. If Starsector didn't already have a perfectly serviceable system in place I'd suggest that you do something similar. Based off of what I've seen so far, I also think the strategic layer of Highfleet is much better than Starsector's, but that's not what Starsector is really about/built for, so it's not a fair thing to compare.
The only thing Highfleet has that I think Starsector needs is a fair and effective way to discourage fighting the same battles until a flawless victory is achieved. I've griped before about how I think iron mode and save-scum mode are both poor fits for Starsector, and I think something similar to Highfleet's morale penalty for retrying a fight could solve my complaints. I've given a lot of thought to the best way to create something like that for Starsector, so I'd bebegrudgingly willinghappy to draw up a detailed suggestion, if you think it's something that should be addressed.
(And likewise for detachments; I think they work in HF largely because of how limited movement is - which is fine! but, right, very different. And I'm not sure how much they really add to the game - there's the cool factor, but it's also just a bit of a chore. I suppose it's another take on "why wouldn't you always deploy the biggest ship", which in Starsector's case is handled differently. Maybe I'll see more of a use for them later in the campaign, aside from just using them always being the right choice when approaching your average ... city? outpost? town? whatever the right word for 'em is.)Yeah, completely different systems for different goals. The ability to detach a smaller fleet could be useful for a handful of situations in Starsector, but it would cause so many problems that don't apply to HF, due to the simplicity allowing players to manually control all fleets at once. I really like both schemes, but they're not compatible at all.
Counter-point: the morale system in HF only works because of you can't really load/save freely. If you could, you'd just reload anyway, right?Right, but that's an accidental, assumptive straw-man argument :P
Regaining fatigue again plays into the time-pressure thing and it takes a while, so it's a significant penalty. I almost think that system is there in the first place *because* you can't load/save freely and the game needed something that could stand in for it... which it's quite good at, since you get sort of a set of "lives" (that you can slowly regenerate) for the course of the campaign.Absolutely.
I will say that it felt weird to me that you lose a campaign resource for a meta-action like restarting a fight... but, I mean, games do gamey things sometimes, so, ok, fine!Fine, yeah, but not good. Ideally game mechanics like this have some sort of lore explanation, like expending a resource to grow a new clone or somesuch. I think one of the (many) reasons Dark Souls was so successful was that it did this well.
Right, but that's an accidental, assumptive straw-man argument :P
It doesn't apply to what I had in mind, which I've been planning (as a feature for ruthless sector) for many months prior to the release of Highfleet.
Counter-point: the morale system in HF only works because of you can't really load/save freely. If you could, you'd just reload anyway, right?
Ah! To me "similar" meant sharing in that meta-action-for-campaign-resource quality, since that felt like the main feature of that. I mean, how else are you going to restart a battle? "It was all a dream!" (or, more charitably: "well, that simulation didn't go well, let's try it for real this time!") via a story point, perhaps? :)I'm fairly confused by this whole thread of conversation. It's somewhat off-topic anyway...
(Edit: and, I really need to get further along in HF's campaign. There's a fairly strong "but I don't wanna do the radio intercepts" element involved in learning more of the campaign mechanics, though, so I'm dragging my feet a bit...)Oh, god, don't remind me... Thank you for not adding a bunch of obtuse mini-games to Starsector. I like the landings, conversations, and salvage minigames just fine, but I think I'm going to start ignoring all radio intercepts as a 'self imposed challenge'
I will say that it felt weird to me that you lose a campaign resource for a meta-action like restarting a fight... but, I mean, games do gamey things sometimes, so, ok, fine!Where there's a will, there's a way as well.
Oh, god, don't remind me... Thank you for not adding a bunch of obtuse mini-games to Starsector. I like the landings, conversations, and salvage minigames just fine, but I think I'm going to start ignoring all radio intercepts as a 'self imposed challenge'I even recall Alex going "if I can't make a
I think if you give players a reasonable way to deal with losses without completely crippling their campaign most will likely use that system over save-scumming. I mean, a lot of story point actions can theoretically be done by save-scumming as well but having an SP option makes it feel more legitimate to use that.
I'm fairly confused by this whole thread of conversation. It's somewhat off-topic anyway...
tbf there is a button to skip them
Where there's a will, there's a way as well.
Flux Grid Rebuilders:
Disabled ships are ships which can no longer fight due to unstable flux grid, which will explode immediately after the salvage screen. Until then, they can only move around. It's possible to use Flux Grid Rebuilders to stabilise those ships and bring them back to operational capacity. However, if you do that, the enemy will likely do the same.
This explains how you use in-universe resources for out-universe things (restarting the fight in this case).
FGRs have to be tuned to specific ships to recover them efficiently, with just a single FGR. It's possible to use untuned FGRs, but they will burn out before reconstructing the entire flux grid, necessitating use of multiple FGRs to finish the process.
This would simulate Highfleet's over time morale recovery.
(I really wish you *could* save/load whenever, except for in battles, of course. These days when I'm playing a game I want to be able to quit it pretty much immediately, not be tied to it until it decides to save...)Pretty sure Highfleet is one of those games that auto-saves any time you make any decision, no matter how trivial. Capturing fleet HQ cities just creates a checkpoint save that you're allowed to travel back in time to.
tbf there is a button to skip them
Right! I think I kind of immediately discounted because it gets you a worse result.
(And, this does seem like a conceptual problem. A button to "skip a chore and get a worse result", not really a fan of. I can see how it might've happened, though - and if the "worse result" is good enough to play the game out, then it's not that big a deal. I'll have to just jam it every time and see how it goes.)
(I really wish you *could* save/load whenever, except for in battles, of course. These days when I'm playing a game I want to be able to quit it pretty much immediately, not be tied to it until it decides to save...)Pretty sure Highfleet is one of those games that auto-saves any time you make any decision, no matter how trivial. Capturing fleet HQ cities just creates a checkpoint save that you're allowed to travel back in time to.
Pretty sure Highfleet is one of those games that auto-saves any time you make any decision, no matter how trivial. Capturing fleet HQ cities just creates a checkpoint save that you're allowed to travel back in time to.
But with even the slightest enemy fire hitting you glitching out the interface so you can't actually see the arrow at all - and with the huge bullet decals - that just feels like too much. But, if you set glitching to low in options, that actually takes care of the issues with the arrow, though not the bullet decals - heaven help you if you're in a corner of the playing field :)My solution to this is to give up and wait until the holes and glitches pass. The guns reload in the meantime. It does let me appreciate that you flashbang us only when some ship blows up...
The only thing Highfleet has that I think Starsector needs is a fair and effective way to discourage fighting the same battles until a flawless victory is achieved. I've griped before about how I think iron mode and save-scum mode are both poor fits for Starsector, and I think something similar to Highfleet's morale penalty for retrying a fight could solve my complaints. I've given a lot of thought to the best way to create something like that for Starsector, so I'd beI haven't gotten the morale penalty yet (I don't even know what morale does), but the quick and easy battle restart is so useful. It can be off for ironman mode or whatever, but if you want to enjoy playing the game, it's really good.begrudgingly willinghappy to draw up a detailed suggestion, if you think it's something that should be addressed.
Hmm - I think the games are different enough that it doesn't make a lot of sense to compare, yeah. E.G. the post combat salvage is a neat thing in HighFleet but I don't particularly think porting that system over to Starsector would be a good idea. For HF, it plays within the larger context of small-scale campaign time pressure that's present throughout. And the strategic layer... it's just apples and oranges, really! It does some neat things at the expense of a lot of freedom; again a fine choice to make, just one that produces a very different result.I don't think choosing between getting one thing and losing other things is something that wouldn't fit for Starsector.
(And likewise for detachments; I think they work in HF largely because of how limited movement is - which is fine! but, right, very different. And I'm not sure how much they really add to the game - there's the cool factor, but it's also just a bit of a chore. I suppose it's another take on "why wouldn't you always deploy the biggest ship", which in Starsector's case is handled differently. Maybe I'll see more of a use for them later in the campaign, aside from just using them always being the right choice when approaching your average ... city? outpost? town? whatever the right word for 'em is.)Switching fleet compositions in SS isn't directly limiting for my movement capabilities, but it does put a damper on my enjoyment of the game whenever I need to do it (well, I don't actually need it, but resource management demands I do it, since it's optimal), enough that I can't imagine not trying to obtain the Janus device as soon as possible. Or sometimes cheating anyway, because between cheating supplies and fuel to make grocery shopping with a warfleet free and spending a lot of time swapping between that warfleet and a shepherd or two, going around the sector looking for stuff, then going back to that warfleet - yeah, I will cheat instead. MY time is a limited resource. Admittedly, this calls more for fleet templates than splitting fleets, but splitting fleets encourages fights I would never take otherwise, and I like fighting in SS, so I wouldn't mind that one happening, either.
It took me maybe half an hour to create a ship that flies and shoots, the biggest issue being that the editor crashed sometimes and that it's just so slow to add many parts at once.Shift+LMB allows you to place the selected part multiple times without re-selecting it. The game never mentions this, of course. That would be too easy.
The only thing Highfleet does better is the Visual effects and Sound effects. UI style is also cool, fitting the janky steampunk style.It's more of a dieselpunk, really. Or whatever fuel you've got, gas turbines aren't picky, it just has to burn. Speaking of that, I think the dev wanted to be smart and used liquid methane as the fuel in the game, since it sounds futuristic, but fuels that are gas in room temperature typically suffer from having poor volumetric energy density.
While I appreciate Highfleet's over-the-top sounds and visuals, it definitely neglects user experience considerations for the sake of style. I prefer FractalSoftworks' philosophy of making everything as stylish as it can be without interfering with clarity and usability.It's remarkable how Highfleet and Starsector have a go at "ship combat, fleet leading RPG" and diverge on some points.
[snip], but there are many more things going on in the campaign (radars, radio eavesdropping, elint, operational range missiles). In SS, it's primarily from getting place A to place B.I dunno. I think there are a similar number of things going on in the campaign layer of both games, just at different levels of detail. Starsector has simpler sensor mechanics, but it also has terrain and campaign abilities unrelated to sensors.
And yet, SS is the flashier one in one aspect: campaign backgrounds. In HF, you spend all your time looking at blueish minimalist map or yellow desert, while SS can get quite scenic at times.That's a good point! Highfleet's visuals could be greatly improved with a world map texture to replace the blueish grid.
I dunno. I think there are a similar number of things going on in the campaign layer of both games, just at different levels of detail. Starsector has simpler sensor mechanics, but it also has terrain and campaign abilities unrelated to sensors.I guess SS also has fleet manoeuvring (and abilities) going for it.
I just have no idea why, or at what point in the development they decided to remove fleet on fleet combat and make this very clunky 'hyperion' system."It worked for Star Control/Pirates!, let's not reinvent the wheel", maybe? I also don't see any evidence that the dev ever thought of the entire player fleet fighting at the same time.
Also, my god, Star Sector's weapon groups feel like a call from heaven. In Highfleet i need to what, use half my keyboard to fire my guns, that's aside from the special systems and whatever? Makes me want to never fly big complicated ships.You can be using half your keyboard to pilot the ship (which I don't mind, but hotkey sheet somewhere in the game could be nice), but for guns use only 2 mouse buttons. And to think 5 weapon groups in SS was sometimes not enough...
On that note, i'm sure none of you realised you can 'PAN' RIGHT the Supplies screen, where you buy fuel, to buy special ammo and missiles. Seriously devs? Seriously?I caught up on it because the game loves panning. Panning in cities, in shipworks, in supplies...
enable long aiming line (off by default)
I do wish fleet vs. fleet was a thing, so I'd have a reason to arm and armor support ships, but having seen how often the enemy AI kills itself through friendly fire....
I bought the game and while I feel that Highfleet would have benefitted greatly from a half-year EA period,
So, Alex, did you see anything you'll get inspired by? I'm looking mainly at the story/overarching goal department.
Aha, you must be planning something really big!So, Alex, did you see anything you'll get inspired by? I'm looking mainly at the story/overarching goal department.
Gotta be completely honest - not a knock on HF at all, but I've been super absorbed working on Starsector stuff and haven't touched it since my previous post in this thread.
.
This is something Mount and Blade got largely right.
The aim reticle allows the player to learn a lot of cognitive skills regarding the game systems in terms of projectile speed, spread and just the 'feel' of weapons. There is NONE of that in highfleet. Compare nailing that out-of-range heavy blaster shot on a Hound, to.. whatever the hell's going on in Highfleet. It's terrible, feels bad, and makes me not want to play the combat. I also hear it gets worse, with aircraft attacking your fleet (well, your flagship since of course) and other such things like cruise missiles.