Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => Suggestions => Topic started by: HighTechBestTech on June 03, 2021, 01:11:56 PM

Title: Add more warcrimes
Post by: HighTechBestTech on June 03, 2021, 01:11:56 PM: As of right now, it seems the only real "warcrime" you can commit is a saturation bombardment. What about adding some more?

Ideas:
Instead of capturing crew alive, always have an option to harvest their organs instead, this applies to salvaged crew and officers as well as post battle crew. I think this would also add a nice source of harvested organs which in my opinion is one of the more underutilized trade goods.

Under the same vein, what about a building besides the cryosanctum that harvests organs? Like in Rimworld where you can get an entire operation going. It might even increase the stability of the world if it's treated as a blacksite sort of situation.

Under the same vein of increasing planetary government type warcrimes, what about adding a special action for deleting a luddic path cell from your worlds permanently with a mass execution, or a buildable surveillance type structure or some kind of police HQ thingy. I would definitely like to see another way to manage a colony which instead of going for the current free market approach, instead is more authoritarian/command economy. Maybe this would give factions like the Sindrian Diktat and Hegemony some more unique flavor.

And lastly, IMO it would make more sense if things like space colonies like Kanta's den and such were not destroyed by a saturation bombardment, but instead by landing marines and manually killing everything that moves. It seems kind of weird to "drop" fuel onto an orbital habitat after all.
Title: Re: Add more warcrimes
Post by: HighTechBestTech on June 03, 2021, 01:18:23 PM: BTW, this is by far my most common suggestion for most games. Not really relevant, just thought it'd be good to know
Title: Re: Add more warcrimes
Post by: Drazan on June 03, 2021, 01:48:08 PM: >opens up forum after a long day
>goes to suggestions
>sees that the first one is "add more warcrimes"
>juststarsectorthings.jpg
Title: Re: Add more warcrimes
Post by: Deshara on June 03, 2021, 03:01:43 PM: related; stopping food aide from reaching a starving colony should probably count as a war crime (if u get caught doing it)
Title: Re: Add more warcrimes
Post by: Ramiel on June 03, 2021, 03:19:13 PM: What do you think this is? Rimworld?
Title: Re: Add more warcrimes
Post by: JUDGE! slowpersun on June 04, 2021, 12:30:09 AM: Quote from: Ramiel on June 03, 2021, 03:19:13 PM
What do you think this is? Rimworld?

Dunno, Rimworld or not, spacing an enemy crew prolly violates the Geneva Conventions... though adding slavery to the game would prolly be too Rimworld-like (however, there is already that one mod...).
Title: Re: Add more warcrimes
Post by: DatonKallandor on June 04, 2021, 03:35:05 AM: Keep this *** in Rimworld and out of good games like Starsector.
Title: Re: Add more warcrimes
Post by: SCC on June 04, 2021, 04:00:30 AM: I don't think that Starsector players are much better. Wanton smuggling, blatant disregard for human lives thrown in the meat grinder, reckless use of AI cores, corruption...
Title: Re: Add more warcrimes
Post by: Deshara on June 04, 2021, 04:01:38 AM: Quote from: SCC on June 04, 2021, 04:00:30 AM
reckless use of AI cores

one of these is not like the other
Title: Re: Add more warcrimes
Post by: michail on June 04, 2021, 05:18:05 AM: I'd love to see satbombings have a bit more long-term consequences. Being best pals with everybody within a couple years after wiping out a faction is mildly odd. They do know they are dealing with probably the biggest mass murderer in recent history, right?
Title: Re: Add more warcrimes
Post by: Megas on June 04, 2021, 09:17:01 AM: Quote from: michail on June 04, 2021, 05:18:05 AM
I'd love to see satbombings have a bit more long-term consequences. Being best pals with everybody within a couple years after wiping out a faction is mildly odd. They do know they are dealing with probably the biggest mass murderer in recent history, right?
With the way they bully the player for making a space buck, they had it coming.

Indies are the only faction that rub me the wrong way for getting aggravated over "atrocities". With that, they act as puppets for the major factions, and get targeted for destruction for getting in the way if I fight a total war against the major factions.
Title: Re: Add more warcrimes
Post by: michail on June 04, 2021, 10:13:12 AM: Quote from: Megas on June 04, 2021, 09:17:01 AM
With the way they bully the player for making a space buck, they had it coming.

For sure. Every planet gone is such a vengeful joy, and the last military base falling is an enormously liberating feel. "... and we will have peace".

Being forever viewed with fear and suspicion would just complete the experience of a genocidal maniac loving his job for me.
Title: Re: Add more warcrimes
Post by: Arcagnello on June 04, 2021, 11:14:16 AM: I guess someone has been reading the Geneva Convention as the Geneva Suggestions as of late ::)
Title: Re: Add more warcrimes
Post by: JUDGE! slowpersun on June 04, 2021, 06:54:03 PM: Quote from: Arcagnello on June 04, 2021, 11:14:16 AM
I guess someone has been reading the Geneva Convention as the Geneva Suggestions as of late ::)

They've honestly been more like Geneva Guidelines the whole time. Kind of off topic, but permanent UN Security Council members basically ignore them with impunity unless they feel like it.

Getting back to the game, I do agree that Independents, Pirates and maybe Luddic Path maybe shouldn't care about sat bombing unless you sat bomb one of their worlds. Maybe only Hegemony and certain characters opinions might drop if you space an enemy crew, but that still seems like lazy coding. Perhaps better to have some parameter that measures how much any one character or faction cares about certain actions when compared to some randomly chosen spectrum (per character or per faction) for any specific action, but only after some initial threshold is met (like sat bombing a core world everyone knows about when your beacon is on, maybe when you beacon is off, but when you space some crew way out on the edge of the sector, only at most some interested parties care).

To be clear, I'm using spacing crew as a shorthand for some arbitrary war crime in general. I mean, it's not really a war crime to space a pirate crew... enemies of mankind and all.

Edit: Spelling fix
Title: Re: Add more warcrimes
Post by: michail on June 04, 2021, 07:39:06 PM: Quote from: Arcagnello on June 04, 2021, 11:14:16 AM
I guess someone has been reading the Geneva Convention as the Geneva Suggestions as of late ::)

I think I've heard about this obscure bit of ancient history from a guy in some bar once?.. Not sure.

Quote from: slowpersun on June 04, 2021, 06:54:03 PM
Getting back to the game, I do agree that Independents, Pirates and maybe Luddic Path maybe shouldn't care about sat bombing unless you sat bomb one of their worlds.

Pirates and LP already don't care, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, more personality for people and importance of personal relationships would be cool. Imagine getting denied docking clearance because the local governor hates your guts for raiding their planet.

Raiding for organs could thematically at least be made into a warcrime (unless such raids aren't butchering random people but rather targeting medical facilities... oh wait). Maybe spawn a purely civilian cargo fleet every once in a while, so the player gets the choice of trading in reputation ~~and remaining morality~~ for more loot/less short-term risk than usual.
Title: Re: Add more warcrimes
Post by: HighTechBestTech on June 04, 2021, 10:15:02 PM: I mostly think its kind of weird to capture crews alive after battle. You'd think they wouldn't want to serve you after you killed most of their friends right? Honestly the one feature I would like is being able to convert captured crews into organs instead.
Title: Re: Add more warcrimes
Post by: SCC on June 04, 2021, 11:38:54 PM: Quote from: HighTechBestTech on June 04, 2021, 10:15:02 PM
You'd think they wouldn't want to serve you after you killed most of their friends right?
Assuming they are friends to the faction and weren't just press ganged...
Title: Re: Add more warcrimes
Post by: AcaMetis on June 05, 2021, 02:08:03 AM: Quote from: HighTechBestTech on June 04, 2021, 10:15:02 PM
I mostly think its kind of weird to capture crews alive after battle. You'd think they wouldn't want to serve you after you killed most of their friends right? Honestly the one feature I would like is being able to convert captured crews into organs instead.
Can you do that in vanilla? I thought that was a Nex feature, and that in vanilla you'll only ever save your own crew.

Which, you know, itself probably counts as a war crime, leaving defeated but not yet dead enemies to die. Not that I think anyone with any kind of authority cares about keeping track, so long as excessive crew casualties remain the bread and butter of Low Tech and non-drone carriers. Be mighty inconvenient if people had to switch over to Tri-Tachyon's High Tech fleet doctrines...
Title: Re: Add more warcrimes
Post by: Deshara on June 05, 2021, 02:55:31 AM: Quote from: HighTechBestTech on June 04, 2021, 10:15:02 PM
I mostly think its kind of weird to capture crews alive after battle. You'd think they wouldn't want to serve you after you killed most of their friends right? Honestly the one feature I would like is being able to convert captured crews into organs instead.

that line of logic would hold up if it werent for the fact that you can buy crew from hostile markets. they didnt sign up to serve on that faction's fleet bc they love that faction, they put a contract up for sale & that faction just happened to be the ones who bought it. If that faction couldnt protect them well enough to keep the ship they were crewing alive then I dont see why they'd have an issue with switching sides to the faction that won the battle they just lost -- if nothing that would look like the smart side to be on if you valued your skin
Title: Re: Add more warcrimes
Post by: Megas on June 05, 2021, 05:59:11 AM: What do war crimes do? They make everyone except Diktat, TT, and criminals angry at your faction. Real annoyance. It is becomes too common or easy, then player can expect to be at war with nearly everyone (and Diktat and TT will be after you anyway for making a space buck).

Should be not too quick to add more war crimes, unless we want or expect the player to kill off everyone (by sat bombing their worlds until they disappear).
Title: Re: Add more warcrimes
Post by: ElPresidente on June 07, 2021, 11:55:00 PM: Quote from: Deshara on June 04, 2021, 04:01:38 AM
Quote from: SCC on June 04, 2021, 04:00:30 AM
reckless use of AI cores

one of these is not like the other

Indeed. The game portrays at as a huge risk and great danger, but the gameplay doesn't follow. There is no real downsides to using AI cores.
Until the AI can rebel and take your colonies, I'll consider it's implementation a failure.
Title: Re: Add more warcrimes
Post by: Deshara on June 08, 2021, 01:59:50 AM: Quote from: ElPresidente on June 07, 2021, 11:55:00 PM
Quote from: Deshara on June 04, 2021, 04:01:38 AM
Quote from: SCC on June 04, 2021, 04:00:30 AM
reckless use of AI cores

one of these is not like the other

Indeed. The game portrays at as a huge risk and great danger, but the gameplay doesn't follow. There is no real downsides to using AI cores.
Until the AI can rebel and take your colonies, I'll consider it's implementation a failure.

same with the
Spoiler
gates
[close]
! That one actually annoys me deeply -- it's a central pillar of the game's premise, so going back on it almost immediately (
Spoiler
being a reward for the only(?) questline
[close]
), kind of sucks. It'd be a super easy fix, too; just explain in gameplay terms why the gates got shut down. Make them a clown-car of [redacted] with a 1% chance of exploding into either the starting or destination system every time you use one
Title: Re: Add more warcrimes
Post by: AcaMetis on June 08, 2021, 02:37:04 AM: The problem with both of those ideas is that too great a risk and people would simply never use the option. "Here's a 1% chance to completely kill your entire fleet and/or permanently destroy the system you're in/going to every time you use this cool thing" is not a reward, it's an invitation to savescum like crazy until you're so tired of it you just ignore the feature entirely. Similarly for colony AI cores, there's very little that AI cores can do which does not boil down to "make me more money". If I had a choice between risking AI cores taking over my colonies or just AFKing for an ingame month to achieve the same end result - more money - why would I ever go with the former? Hell, if I had a choice between using AI cores to make me more money at the risk of them taking over my colonies, or selling said AI cores and making money with no attached risk, why would I ever use AI cores as anything but vendor trash?
Title: Re: Add more warcrimes
Post by: HighTechBestTech on June 08, 2021, 11:15:05 AM: Quote from: Megas on June 05, 2021, 05:59:11 AM
What do war crimes do? They make everyone except Diktat, TT, and criminals angry at your faction. Real annoyance. It is becomes too common or easy, then player can expect to be at war with nearly everyone (and Diktat and TT will be after you anyway for making a space buck).

Should be not too quick to add more war crimes, unless we want or expect the player to kill off everyone (by sat bombing their worlds until they disappear).

I mean, sat bombing does exactly that and its still in the game. I'd assume harvesting the organs of captured crew would be harder for others to find out about.