Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => Mods => Topic started by: Jaghaimo on May 28, 2021, 01:42:56 AM

Title: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.2 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on May 28, 2021, 01:42:56 AM
Starpocalypse is no longer being maintained. Last working build is available for 0.95.1a. Repository is archived (accessible but read-only). The successor to this mod can be found here: https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=26969.0

Spoiler
Starpocalypse
Reduce weapon and combat ship availability, and make NPC colonies stronger.

(https://img.shields.io/github/v/release/jaghaimo/starpocalypse?label=download%20latest&style=for-the-badge) (https://github.com/jaghaimo/starpocalypse/releases/latest) (https://img.shields.io/github/license/jaghaimo/starpocalypse?label=browse%20source&style=for-the-badge) (https://github.com/jaghaimo/starpocalypse) (https://img.shields.io/github/issues/jaghaimo/starpocalypse?label=view%20ideas&color=green&style=for-the-badge) (https://github.com/jaghaimo/starpocalypse/issues)

This minimod makes the following changes to the campaign layer of Starsector:

Quote
    Weapons and combat ships are scarce and highly regulated. As such, only Military Markets (and those pesky Black Markets) will sell higher tier weapons, LPCs, modspecs, and combat ships. Open Markets still sell civilian grade ships and low tier combat ships and items.
       - Lawless factions (e.g. pirates and pathers) and independents do not submit to this rule of law. You can still find high tier weapons and combat ships at their bases (both core and raider).
       - Contraband can happen, and when stability is low, some weapons and ships from Military Market can become "legal".
    There are no pristine ships any more, everything is d-modded. Including your starting fleet.
    Access to most Black Markets is impossible while legally docked at the station. Speaking of access, you will need to use a fence who will ask for a cut (displayed as tariff for now).
    Factions are armed to the teeth. Any non-hidden market has at least an orbiting station, ground defences, and patrol HQ. Hidden bases (pirates and pathers raider bases) only get ground defences.
    Your actions have consequences. When defeating a fleet, your reputation with seemingly unrelated factions changes as well. Enemies of your enemy start to like you a bit, while their friends, less.
       - Similarly, targetting any colony item will be deemed as an act of war.
    Blueprint packages are no longer lootable. You will have to collect blueprints one by one.
    And speaking of salvage, everything needs a story point.
    Finally, a skill is needed to use s-mods at all (no skill = 0 s-mods, with skill = 1 s-mod).

For information how mod works and how to configure it, read README.md (https://github.com/jaghaimo/starpocalypse#readme).
[close]
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.1.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: ElPresidente on May 28, 2021, 04:37:47 AM
Interdasting.
Makes looting a lot more desireable.

Restoration prices and buy/sell modifiers would probably need tweaking.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.1.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Madskills on May 28, 2021, 07:14:21 AM
Savage mod, I love the direction it's going. As we discussed in the other thread, there are still vanilla loopholes for acquiring stuff too effortlessly like blueprints that need to be balanced.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.1.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: IonDragonX on May 28, 2021, 04:33:45 PM
only Military Markets sell weapons, LPCs, and combat ships. Open Markets and Black Markets still sell civilian grade ships, albeit of inferior quality
Okay, I get the scarcity thing but I think that Black Market should still have some low tier/low tech weapons but not ships. They are small enough to fit into cargo holds and they are common enough to be logical.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.1.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Jaghaimo on May 28, 2021, 11:46:53 PM
Okay, I get the scarcity thing but I think that Black Market should still have some low tier/low tech weapons but not ships. They are small enough to fit into cargo holds and they are common enough to be logical.

It will be configurable from next version. Perhaps a saner default will then become to keep frigates in black market only.

Right now, only hidden markets (like raider bases) are not touched. But one of them is in core worlds - Kanta's Den.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.1.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Helldiver on May 29, 2021, 01:44:50 AM
As such, only Military Markets sell weapons, LPCs, and combat ships.

Does this limitation include combat freighters without the civilian hullmod such as Wayfarers or Cerberuses?

Factions are armed to the teeth. Any non-hidden market has at least an orbiting station, ground defences, and patrol HQ.

Does this include Indie markets?


As for overall mod idea, I like it. Part of what makes the game so easy and faction relationships such a non-factor is how trivially you can procure warships from anyone. Anything that makes obtaining true warships a real challenge is welcome.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.1.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: SCC on May 29, 2021, 01:48:25 AM
It will be configurable from next version. Perhaps a saner default will then become to keep frigates in black market only.

Right now, only hidden markets (like raider bases) are not touched. But one of them is in core worlds - Kanta's Den.
Considering Tempest exists - I would rather have a whitelist of ships that can stay in the black or open market. Though I'd probably sprinkle some d-mods on those ships anyway.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.1.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Jaghaimo on May 29, 2021, 03:16:11 AM
As such, only Military Markets sell weapons, LPCs, and combat ships.

Does this limitation include combat freighters without the civilian hullmod such as Wayfarers or Cerberuses?

Factions are armed to the teeth. Any non-hidden market has at least an orbiting station, ground defences, and patrol HQ.

Does this include Indie markets?

If it does not have "civilian grade" hullmod it will be removed.
Yes, Indie markets are included by default. You can edit various csv files in "data/starpocalypse" folder to change this behaviour.


It will be configurable from next version. Perhaps a saner default will then become to keep frigates in black market only.

Right now, only hidden markets (like raider bases) are not touched. But one of them is in core worlds - Kanta's Den.
Considering Tempest exists - I would rather have a whitelist of ships that can stay in the black or open market. Though I'd probably sprinkle some d-mods on those ships anyway.

In the upcoming version the d-modifications will be detached from removal logic, thus having its own whitelist csv. By default, all ships (those that survived the culling, and those that were survived or were ignored in hidden markets) will be given extra d-mod.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.1.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Arcagnello on May 29, 2021, 03:19:22 AM
Yes.

The Path must be ardous to reach Ludd's vision!
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.1.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Oni on May 29, 2021, 01:40:02 PM
only Military Markets sell weapons, LPCs, and combat ships. Open Markets and Black Markets still sell civilian grade ships, albeit of inferior quality
Okay, I get the scarcity thing but I think that Black Market should still have some low tier/low tech weapons but not ships. They are small enough to fit into cargo holds and they are common enough to be logical.
Eh, I can believe Black Markets would have military grade ships for sale (planets are pretty big after all and a ship, even a battleship, is comparatively small). What buying one should do though is jack your suspicion through the roof if you've got your transponder on. Maybe have a "smuggled ship" flag for any black market military ship that'll be detected by a patrol scan that lasts a week of game time.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.1.1 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: dostillevi on May 31, 2021, 07:04:49 PM
Liking the concept. I had an idea recently that might fit into the theme of this mod:

If a faction exists and it's blueprints are being used by another faction, cause a Nexerelin diplomatic event (if installed) between the two factions, and the faction sends a raid to retrieve it's blueprints from the planet/station. The raid should be tailored to retrieve the faction blueprints, and if successful then the blueprints should no longer be available for use by the target faction.

There are some other things that could be added to this, like allowing a faction to use blueprints if they have a high Nexerelin relationship (or player relationship).

-
Editing to add that a decent workaround for military ships on the black market might be stability, where lower stability means more and higher quality (fewer d-mod) military ships for sale, in combination with the existing factors that determine amount and quality of ships available on the black market. There are a few neat things here, not least of which would be that destabilizing a world would be a really good way to get one's hands on that faction's ships.

Also, if you do Nexerelin integration, I could see a neat case where military ships end up on black markets nearby to the two warring factions, as a result of derelict ships being salvaged and repaired for sale.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.1.1 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Sutopia on May 31, 2021, 10:07:05 PM
Since you've already touched it:
Can we have accessibility reduction due to hostile faction become final multiplier penalty?
So if you have a planet that was supposed to have 200% and -50% due to hostility it's 100% instead of 150%
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.1.1 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Jaghaimo on June 01, 2021, 12:03:26 AM
Added an issue for Black Market's stability based weapon and ship culling survival (that's long winded, heh).


Everything else mentioned, while interesting, is more fitted for Nex than this mod.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.1.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: IonDragonX on June 01, 2021, 10:25:23 AM
Okay, I get the scarcity thing but I think that Black Market should still have some low tier/low tech weapons but not ships. They are small enough to fit into cargo holds and they are common enough to be logical.

It will be configurable from next version. Perhaps a saner default will then become to keep frigates in black market only.

Right now, only hidden markets (like raider bases) are not touched. But one of them is in core worlds - Kanta's Den.

Yes! If my vote counts for anything, then black markets carrying combat frigates (trashed though they may be) should definitely be default.  :D
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.1.1 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Oni on June 01, 2021, 11:58:42 AM
Did you manage to have a blanket condition for this, or are modded factions going to have to be added independently?  ???
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.1.1 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Bucket on June 01, 2021, 12:33:56 PM
This almost aligns perfectly with how I would envision a dark age Persean sector should look like. The most needed change IMO is making capital ship spawns scarce rather than just pump them out enmass with a bunch of easily repairable D-mods; This would really put the emphasis on capital in capital ships. And no it's not the market that needs fixing, it's the fleet spawns that could use composition touch ups.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.2.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Jaghaimo on June 02, 2021, 01:30:57 AM
New version is up - added configurability to most places. Also added a script to fix markets that were broken by 1.0.1 and 1.0.2 (duplicate industries).

Yes! If my vote counts for anything, then black markets carrying combat frigates (trashed though they may be) should definitely be default.  :D
I've left the ship selection to vanilla for now (Black Market already does not sell capitals, might tweak this further to remove cruisers as well).

Did you manage to have a blanket condition for this, or are modded factions going to have to be added independently?  ???
Yes, CSV files now accept "all" and "!faction" (not faction). Highest priority is "faction" (yes, include), followed by "!faction" (don't include if "all" is present), followed by "all" (if present, include all that are not negated).
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.2.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Deshara on June 02, 2021, 11:22:46 AM
excellent mod, following
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.2.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Sarissofoi on June 02, 2021, 04:42:48 PM
What about combat freighters, exploration ships, etc?
Shouldn't they also be available on civilian market?
Also some basic weapons should be available on civil market for self defence.
Black market could have higher price markup for both weapons and ships(maybe some smaller and lower tech military ships to be available too).
To be honest Black Market should be connected to local Market stability.
Less stability = more stuff on Black market
High stability = less stuff and need to pay extra(bribes)
Zero stability = anarchy so legal market should almost completely turn into black one because local government have no means to enforce anything.
Just five cents.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.2.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Helldiver on June 03, 2021, 06:17:54 PM
For orbital stations added by the mod to markets that didn't have one, how does the mod decide the tech type of the station? Is it decided by certain parameters (i.e market's original owning faction), or is it fixed (i.e every station added by the mod is low tech) ?

EDIT: I'm an idiot, looked into the files and found my answer.
For those that may wonder too, it's faction based and set in stationFactionMap.csv.

Based on what is written there, am I right to assume that the mod only adds new orbital stations to vanilla factions' markets?
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.2.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Jaghaimo on June 04, 2021, 04:29:26 AM
For orbital stations added by the mod to markets that didn't have one, how does the mod decide the tech type of the station? Is it decided by certain parameters (i.e market's original owning faction), or is it fixed (i.e every station added by the mod is low tech) ?

EDIT: I'm an idiot, looked into the files and found my answer.
For those that may wonder too, it's faction based and set in stationFactionMap.csv.

Based on what is written there, am I right to assume that the mod only adds new orbital stations to vanilla factions' markets?

Correct, while submarket and industry changes are all opt-in by default, stations require a mapping to be defined. I did consider a similar opt-in (with "all" and "!faction" keys) but it made no sense as you can't tell which faction uses which station (so would need to default to say low tech always). Alternatively, consider providing me with a list of all mod factions and their respective station ids (custom stations included) and I'll include it in the next version.

Bugfix incoming in next few hours - industry newbies are given to the player again, my bad.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.2.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: DecoyGrenadeOut on June 04, 2021, 03:38:54 PM
Is this compatible with Rusty Cabbage's Second Wave Options mod (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=17086.0)?
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.2.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: AppleMarineXX on June 09, 2021, 05:45:19 PM
For orbital stations added by the mod to markets that didn't have one, how does the mod decide the tech type of the station? Is it decided by certain parameters (i.e market's original owning faction), or is it fixed (i.e every station added by the mod is low tech) ?

EDIT: I'm an idiot, looked into the files and found my answer.
For those that may wonder too, it's faction based and set in stationFactionMap.csv.

Based on what is written there, am I right to assume that the mod only adds new orbital stations to vanilla factions' markets?

Correct, while submarket and industry changes are all opt-in by default, stations require a mapping to be defined. I did consider a similar opt-in (with "all" and "!faction" keys) but it made no sense as you can't tell which faction uses which station (so would need to default to say low tech always). Alternatively, consider providing me with a list of all mod factions and their respective station ids (custom stations included) and I'll include it in the next version.

Bugfix incoming in next few hours - industry newbies are given to the player again, my bad.

Do you envision having modmakers add a Starpocalypse config folder to their faction mods, like with Nex and Commissioned Crews? If so, I'd be happy to throw one in my mod, but I'm not quite sure how to do it.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.2.3 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Nameless on June 10, 2021, 10:27:52 PM
I like this mod.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.2.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Jaghaimo on June 10, 2021, 11:23:34 PM
Is this compatible with Rusty Cabbage's Second Wave Options mod (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=17086.0)?

Should be. It will either add things to markets, then Second Wave will upgrade them, or it will not do anything if Second Wave adds them first.

Do you envision having modmakers add a Starpocalypse config folder to their faction mods, like with Nex and Commissioned Crews? If so, I'd be happy to throw one in my mod, but I'm not quite sure how to do it.

Initially it was required, but since it is a big uptake I changed defaults to use default opt-in. As such, mods still can modify the behaviour by blacklisting their submarkets or factions. All mods that want to have stations added NEED to add an entry to specify which station is to be added (and extend station list if they add new stations).
As to how - see "data/statpocalypse" folder. You make such a folder in your mod, then add files you want to modify. The game loads Starpocalypse files, and then adds (or overwrites) values using values from your mod.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.2.3 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Helldiver on June 12, 2021, 09:17:14 AM
I don't know if it's from Starpocalypse or Stelnet, but after updating both (1-2 versions up each) non-D ships no longer appear in Stelnet searches or markets. Looking for non-damaged ships-only on Stelnet also returns that no such items are found, including on new save right from the start.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.2.3 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Jaghaimo on June 12, 2021, 02:29:10 PM
This is correct - with default Starpocalypse settings there are no (none, null, nil, zero) ships with no (none, null, nil, zero) d-mods. Welcome to hell.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.2.3 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Helldiver on June 12, 2021, 03:12:31 PM
This is correct - with default Starpocalypse settings there are no (none, null, nil, zero) ships with no (none, null, nil, zero) d-mods. Welcome to hell.

Ah, somehow didn't notice earlier. Would replacing "submarketall!storage" with "submarketopen_marketblack_market" in shipDamageSubmarket suffice to make it only apply to Open and Black markets?

Think the mod description should be changed, as it currently only says that Open and Black markets sell inferior ships (when the mod apparently applies to all markets by default).

I'm also curious about how the mod applies the damage. Does it add D-mods to ships after they were generated by the game? Does it add them only to ships that didn't roll D-mods or to all ships? Is it a fixed number (i.e 1 to all ships) or randomized, or affected by local ship quality like regular D-mods?

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.2.3 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Jaghaimo on June 12, 2021, 04:36:09 PM
Yes, remove "all", add explicitly which markets you want to alter (open and black markets). With this setup, storage negation ("!storage") is no longer needed either (it was preventing "all" from applying to "storage").
It is very simple right now - any non-dmodded ship will get one random d-mod (after generation, e.g. when you dock at the market).
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.2.3 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Helldiver on June 12, 2021, 04:54:58 PM
Yes, remove "all", add explicitly which markets you want to alter (open and black markets). With this setup, storage negation ("!storage") is no longer needed either (it was preventing "all" from applying to "storage").
It is very simple right now - any non-dmodded ship will get one random d-mod (after generation, e.g. when you dock at the market).

Cheers! The d-mod generation is perfect then, simple and non-intrusive. Love the mod.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.2.3 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: dostillevi on June 14, 2021, 04:01:32 AM
Playing my first run with this mod, and I have a couple of thoughts:

1. Some mod ships aren't for sale anywhere. This could be intended, but for example with Shadowyards, there isn't a single Solidarity Armed Freighter for sale anywhere in my game. I think this might be because these aren't classed as Civilian ships, but they also probably aren't in the military markets either.
2. It would be my preference to see armed freighters in general markets. Is there an option to enable this? I'm thinking ships like the Gemini and Mule, which are absolutely not military ships but can only be bought from pirates or the occasional Persean military market. In my preference, it makes a whole lot of sense for "armed freighters" to be the closest ship available to a military vessel outside of military markets. Since weapons can't be acquired easily, lore wise an armed freighter might not actually have any weapons mounted.
3. Is there an option to allow PD guns in open markets? Along with #2, I feel pretty comfortable that putting anti-missile defenses on freighters would be allowed even under extremely strict arms control.
4. For Nexerelin starts with a trading fleet, it might make sense to restrict the ship options available. I can start out with the above mentioned Solidarity Armed Freighter with a full weapon loadout, making my fleet one of the most heavily armed small shipping operations in the sector, right from the start.
5. If weapons are highly regulated, should faction patrols take offense to your ships having guns mounted? Or is is it one of those situations where use is tolerated but not sale? I can't really think of a good way to handle this that is both gameplay friendly and honors the intent of this mod, but maybe you can!

Overall it's refreshing at least on my first run to not be jumping straight into a military fleet. Pirates are less dangerous in general from what I've seen, which means a few armed freighters really would be able to hold their own... if I could only find some armed freighters...
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.2.3 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Jaghaimo on June 14, 2021, 04:44:52 AM
Playing my first run with this mod, and I have a couple of thoughts:
...
Contraband - from next version, market stability will affect which weapons, LPCs, and ships (based on cost, customizable via new csv files) "seep" through Military Markets into Black Market. The lower the stability, the more items are available in the Black Market. The items and ships are "synced", meaning purchasing on one market removes it from both markets.

Pirates are less dangerous in general from what I've seen, which means a few armed freighters really would be able to hold their own... if I could only find some armed freighters...
Interesting, I haven't touched that at all - the mod should have no implications on spawned fleets, pirates included.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.2.3 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: dostillevi on June 14, 2021, 12:33:53 PM
Contraband - from next version, market stability will affect which weapons, LPCs, and ships (based on cost, customizable via new csv files) "seep" through Military Markets into Black Market. The lower the stability, the more items are available in the Black Market. The items and ships are "synced", meaning purchasing on one market removes it from both markets.

Nice! Excited to see how this works out.

Also wondering if ships that seep out of military markets could disappear from the military market entirely and appear on the black market of a planet in the same or nearby system, reflecting from a lore perspective that low market stability leads to some ships smuggled off world for safer sale, or ships being intercepted in transit prior to hitting the military market. I can see this maybe going too far towards making the game easier to play, but thematically and mechanically it's nice. For example I could destabilize a market of one of my enemies (whom I could probably not dock at to buy from their black market due to poor relations and high security from this mod), and then see their ships appear for sale in pirate, independent, or maybe other faction black markets. Maybe this could tie in with the Freeport concept?

There's whole lot of potential Nexerelin interaction here, but as you said before that's probably best left to Nex.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.2.3 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: cookietrader on June 14, 2021, 02:18:54 PM

  • This will be fixed in the next version, where ships are no longer removed but transferred to Military Market (like weapons currently do).
  • See Contraband below
  • See Contraband below
  • Very low on priority list. I think once Hist enabled custom ship selection start this will not be an issue (as you will be able to restrict yourself by picking ships you want).
  • I have this on the list of things to investigate, but do note that it is extremely difficult to balance right (e.g. introduce this mechanic without frustrating the player a lot), and of rather low priority.
Contraband - from next version, market stability will affect which weapons, LPCs, and ships (based on cost, customizable via new csv files) "seep" through Military Markets into Black Market. The lower the stability, the more items are available in the Black Market. The items and ships are "synced", meaning purchasing on one market removes it from both markets.

i wish i havent read this. now i have to wait for the update to start a new playtrough ;D .

So far really cool mod. Completely changing how the game feels (for the better).
Everything feels so much more dangerous.
Finding a good weapon alr feels like jackpot. Which also makes exploration so much more worthwile.

Looking forward to the updates.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.2.3 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Jaghaimo on June 17, 2021, 11:52:16 PM
Stability based contraband is now out!
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.3.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: AppleMarineXX on June 18, 2021, 02:53:54 AM
Is there an option to configure how much contraband leaks (or stop it altogether), if someone wants to do an extra-masochistic run?
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.3.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Jaghaimo on June 18, 2021, 05:07:08 AM
Is there an option to configure how much contraband leaks (or stop it altogether), if someone wants to do an extra-masochistic run?

From https://github.com/jaghaimo/starpocalypse#submarkets:
Quote
Decision which factions and submarkets of that faction are regulated is made via militaryRegulation*.csv files. Same submarkets and factions can additionally have contraband applied - see militaryContraband.csv for details.

You want to change values for both columns to something high - e.g. 999999. It will still leak everything to Black Market when stability is 0 though - haven't thought of that.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.3.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: PreConceptor on June 18, 2021, 09:53:31 AM
Would it be possible to add a whitelist for specific markets? Say a planet that otherwise would be regulated because the faction that owns it is a regulator, but because its on the whitelist it becomes exempt and all their submarkets work normally?

I'm specifically thinking of Kassadar (Tahlan) and Prism Freeport, since they are technically independent and therefore their open markets would normally be regulated.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.2.3 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Oni on June 24, 2021, 03:56:26 PM
Playing my first run with this mod, and I have a couple of thoughts:

1. Some mod ships aren't for sale anywhere. This could be intended, but for example with Shadowyards, there isn't a single Solidarity Armed Freighter for sale anywhere in my game. I think this might be because these aren't classed as Civilian ships, but they also probably aren't in the military markets either.
2. It would be my preference to see armed freighters in general markets. Is there an option to enable this? I'm thinking ships like the Gemini and Mule, which are absolutely not military ships but can only be bought from pirates or the occasional Persean military market. In my preference, it makes a whole lot of sense for "armed freighters" to be the closest ship available to a military vessel outside of military markets. Since weapons can't be acquired easily, lore wise an armed freighter might not actually have any weapons mounted.
3. Is there an option to allow PD guns in open markets? Along with #2, I feel pretty comfortable that putting anti-missile defenses on freighters would be allowed even under extremely strict arms control.
4. For Nexerelin starts with a trading fleet, it might make sense to restrict the ship options available. I can start out with the above mentioned Solidarity Armed Freighter with a full weapon loadout, making my fleet one of the most heavily armed small shipping operations in the sector, right from the start.
5. If weapons are highly regulated, should faction patrols take offense to your ships having guns mounted? Or is is it one of those situations where use is tolerated but not sale? I can't really think of a good way to handle this that is both gameplay friendly and honors the intent of this mod, but maybe you can!

Overall it's refreshing at least on my first run to not be jumping straight into a military fleet. Pirates are less dangerous in general from what I've seen, which means a few armed freighters really would be able to hold their own... if I could only find some armed freighters...
Given that Pirates are a thing, I would think that Small sized weapons would at least be available (if less than common) on the civilian market. As that's going to be the size most armed merchants need, maybe with the occasional extremely rare medium.

As things stand, needing to go to pirate markets to outfit any of my salvaged ships is a bit annoying... plus I'm never going to manage to outfit a ship with it's faction weapons, though that's just me.  ;D
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.2.3 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Helldiver on June 24, 2021, 11:45:50 PM
As things stand, needing to go to pirate markets to outfit any of my salvaged ships is a bit annoying... plus I'm never going to manage to outfit a ship with it's faction weapons

Independents have a few military markets too, where you can find weapons if you're trusted enough by them (not difficult). You can also find weapons of any world in their black market if stability is low enough (contraband).
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.2.3 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Oni on June 26, 2021, 10:46:46 PM
.... Independents have a few military markets too, where you can find weapons if you're trusted enough by them (not difficult). You can also find weapons of any world in their black market if stability is low enough (contraband).
I know, but I'd rather not manipulate a worlds stability for a few guns.  ;D

Maybe the answer lies in increasing the the weapon salvage rates (ie increase the odds that weapons drop as salvage)? If you want parts, you can hunt for them.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.3.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: 5ColouredWalker on July 03, 2021, 07:16:10 PM
Mod makes a lot of sense, but it makes acquiring ships from other factions near-impossible, which I like too much to keep.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.3.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: JUDGE! slowpersun on July 17, 2021, 03:48:47 PM
Would it be possible to add a whitelist for specific markets? Say a planet that otherwise would be regulated because the faction that owns it is a regulator, but because its on the whitelist it becomes exempt and all their submarkets work normally?

I'm specifically thinking of Kassadar (Tahlan) and Prism Freeport, since they are technically independent and therefore their open markets would normally be regulated.

Same with planet/market added by Arma Armatura mod, although less of an issue with that mod since most of those ships/weapons are already limited to being on the military market.

Plus, small weapons for pirate defense makes sense (although this is also to some degree mitigated by the availability of mercs in the game now).
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.3.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Reggie on July 17, 2021, 05:16:38 PM
With this mod I attempted to use marines to acquire some much needed guns but doing so crashed my game every time. If this could be fixed and some settings were introduced to adjust how the market changes worked I'd definitely get this mod again.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.3.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: PreConceptor on September 20, 2021, 09:57:25 PM
Not working correctly for me. No matter how low the stability, there is never any leakage of weapons, LPCs, or non-civilian ships back onto the black market on either military or non-military colonies, even after a dozen market updates. Any factions I exclude from regulation in militaryRegulationFaction also don't appear to register, but removing open_market from militaryRegulationSubmarket does have the intended effect.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.3.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Jaghaimo on September 21, 2021, 01:05:09 AM
That's odd and sorry to hear it's not working for you. I will need some logs to see what's going on, as well as Starpocalypse version you are running. For faster debugging, you could message me on Starsector Discord.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.3.1 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Jaghaimo on September 22, 2021, 01:31:53 AM
Bug fix released - 1.3.1. Now contraband actually works.
Big thanks to PreConceptor who was the only person not to have noticed since release of 1.3.0 (3 months) but also to report it.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Jaghaimo on October 15, 2021, 01:28:50 PM
New update - 1.4.0 is out. Modularized the mod into Industry (adds patrol hqs, missing orbital stations, etc.) and Submarket (handles dmodding, weapon removal, etc) module. Each module can be disabled at will. Also added a new module - Engagements - which does a small reputation (less than one point) adjustment for factions related (both positively and negatively) to the fleets defeated by the player.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Soñjer on October 17, 2021, 07:23:23 AM
I really like this mod; it adds realistic difficulty, compared to other mods that adds pure gameplay/arcade difficulty.

One suggestion I would have is to overhaul the commission system:

- Reward activity (bigger fleet bounty in general, with extra for enemy factions, but less per month cash)
- Punish inactivity (must do X (3?) amount of missions per cycle, otherwise relations are tanked (-10?, scaling) until you're fired + big reputation penalty when going below 0)
- More content (exclusive/special missions for the player, more missions in general)

I know this is quite a bit of work, so you do you.

Also, is there any reason you're not on the mod index ? Stumbled upon your mod in the mod board, it's a shame I didn't knew it before.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: IonDragonX on October 17, 2021, 08:56:47 AM
Also, is there any reason you're not on the mod index ? Stumbled upon your mod in the mod board, it's a shame I didn't knew it before.
Good point.

@Thaago
This is probably refined enough to put into the 'Miscellaneous' section, right?
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Jaghaimo on October 17, 2021, 01:12:11 PM
Quote
- Reward activity (bigger fleet bounty in general, with extra for enemy factions, but less per month cash)

This is actually pretty easy to do. Unfortunately, vanilla bounty manager only has 11 levels (0-10), and it increases based on successful bounties. I don't see a way to make it harder, other than:

Rewriting bounty manager is outside the scope of this mod.

Quote
- Punish inactivity (must do X (3?) amount of missions per cycle, otherwise relations are tanked (-10?, scaling) until you're fired + big reputation penalty when going below 0)

Like this one. Added a note to add inactivity checker, e.g. commissioned faction will get angry at you if you do nothing to help their cause within a cycle. Adjustable, perhaps you need to gain 10 rep in a cycle. Tanking ends when you reach 100. Thinking how to make it easier for implementation / tracking here...

Quote
- More content (exclusive/special missions for the player, more missions in general)

Again, this feels like a great idea but outside the scope of this mod. I'd suggest getting the upcoming MagicBounties mod (in development), or visiting Discord and getting Bounties Extended mod from there.

Quote
Also, is there any reason you're not on the mod index ? Stumbled upon your mod in the mod board, it's a shame I didn't knew it before.

My oversight. This started as a proof-of-concept (and a bit of a joke) mod, and since has gained some traction. I simply forgot to add it there. I'll ask Thaago.

Thaago? Could I have this in Utilities section please?

Quote
This is probably refined enough to put into the 'Miscellaneous' section, right?

Technically it is a Utility mod, you can disable it at any time without breaking your save.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: nepman on October 25, 2021, 04:31:56 AM
First of all - thank you for the mod, a great complication of the game. Smuggling - sounds very interesting, and should encourage the player to lower the stability of worlds, or look for worlds with low stability to get some weapons / ships from the black market.
This led to some interesting gameplay changes - I started selling and throwing away weapons much less often - you never know what and when it will come in handy, and what and when you can find/buy it.
Much more often I began to think about recovering found ships in space. "This warship might not have been the best buy before, but now that there are no alternatives, it will do. "
There are potentially more interactions with pirates -- their bases are those rare sources of weapons and warships. Great!
Raids on stations and worlds for weapons have also become much more meaningful.

On the other hand there are a few tricky points
1. The Prism Port from Nex is still a legit place with the ability to buy not just weapons but rare and high quality weapons. I like Prism Port, it sells great ship modifications, but on the other hand it becomes one of the main places to buy quality ships for the fleet. One of the main if not the only one.
2. Selling weapons. It's forbidden and you can't buy weapons in the regular market, but you can sell them. This feels a little weird. Perhaps should add an interface similar to the interface with the transfer of AI cores to the administration of the station or planet? Perhaps a small monetary reward and a bit of reputation...
3. Small guns, at least to be able to protect a minimal ship. This is more about the ability to arm yourself minimally, to fight back the pirates. Following the logic - such strict regulation only encourages cooperation with the smugglers, perhaps add an intermediate arms market where the minimum reputation (0-10) player can buy a small gun? Nothing special, just a small machine gun per tanker... But then again, if we're talking about the strictest regulation, the mod does it right.
4. Not sure if this is implemented now - maybe should limit the sale of  space marines? Limit it to pirate stations, and military markets. Maybe some stations (like Tri-Tah) can sell mercenaries.


It's great that the mod is now pushing to find characters in bars that can sell you a warship for a low price, maybe it would be worth developing this idea, and add something like "Contact" that would offer different ships at some periodicity? (Just like with the head rewards - three levels of difficulty, three monetary rewards. Three different ships in different price ranges (maybe more expensive than usual, maybe beaten up)

Oh, and the idea of slightly battered ships on sale looks great too. It makes the economics of the game a little more complex.

This mod in the mix with Rutheless sector, Second Wave really refreshes the game and makes it much more complex.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: nepman on October 29, 2021, 02:24:08 AM
It's great that the mod is now pushing to find characters in bars that can sell you a warship for a low price, maybe it would be worth developing this idea, and add something like "Contact" that would offer different ships at some periodicity? (Just like with the head rewards - three levels of difficulty, three monetary rewards. Three different ships in different price ranges (maybe more expensive than usual, maybe beaten up)

Okay, in fact, the starsector opens up new, unknown sides all the time.
I found a trader of interesting things in the bar - that completely covers the offer I made.  ;D ;D
Thanks again for the mod - it looks very organic to the game.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Jaghaimo on October 29, 2021, 03:15:02 AM
First of all - thank you for the mod, a great complication of the game. Smuggling - sounds very interesting, and should encourage the player to lower the stability of worlds, or look for worlds with low stability to get some weapons / ships from the black market.
Glad you find it interesting. It is a niche mod after all.

This led to some interesting gameplay changes - I started selling and throwing away weapons much less often - you never know what and when it will come in handy, and what and when you can find/buy it.
Much more often I began to think about recovering found ships in space. "This warship might not have been the best buy before, but now that there are no alternatives, it will do. "
There are potentially more interactions with pirates -- their bases are those rare sources of weapons and warships. Great!
Raids on stations and worlds for weapons have also become much more meaningful.

Slap on my Stelnet mod, just disable Commodity and Market, and leave Storage enabled, and now you can easily check where your stashes of weapons are.

On the other hand there are a few tricky points
1. The Prism Port from Nex is still a legit place with the ability to buy not just weapons but rare and high quality weapons. I like Prism Port, it sells great ship modifications, but on the other hand it becomes one of the main places to buy quality ships for the fleet. One of the main if not the only one.
2. Selling weapons. It's forbidden and you can't buy weapons in the regular market, but you can sell them. This feels a little weird. Perhaps should add an interface similar to the interface with the transfer of AI cores to the administration of the station or planet? Perhaps a small monetary reward and a bit of reputation...
3. Small guns, at least to be able to protect a minimal ship. This is more about the ability to arm yourself minimally, to fight back the pirates. Following the logic - such strict regulation only encourages cooperation with the smugglers, perhaps add an intermediate arms market where the minimum reputation (0-10) player can buy a small gun? Nothing special, just a small machine gun per tanker... But then again, if we're talking about the strictest regulation, the mod does it right.
4. Not sure if this is implemented now - maybe should limit the sale of  space marines? Limit it to pirate stations, and military markets. Maybe some stations (like Tri-Tah) can sell mercenaries.


It's great that the mod is now pushing to find characters in bars that can sell you a warship for a low price, maybe it would be worth developing this idea, and add something like "Contact" that would offer different ships at some periodicity? (Just like with the head rewards - three levels of difficulty, three monetary rewards. Three different ships in different price ranges (maybe more expensive than usual, maybe beaten up)
I'd keep your eyes peeled on Bounties Expanded mod (currently Discord only), and potentially on some new mods that come up once bounty framework is added to MagicLib (and it becomes easier to implement those things). As for contacts, I've added it to my list.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Yunru on October 29, 2021, 11:35:34 AM
This is tied to submarket implementation. I'd need to replace all submarkets with my custom ones, so that would make the mod incompatibile with Nex (which also does that). I'll have a second look at that though.
It may not work, and it may have a tonne of unintended side-effects, but what if they were added to the illegal goods list for the various factions?
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Jaghaimo on October 29, 2021, 01:06:30 PM
Will need to double-check, but this implies the check only happens for commodities (which weapons are not).
Code
	"illegalCommodities":[
"drugs",
"organs",
"hand_weapons",
"ai_cores",
],

I think the submarket plugin replacement might be the way to go. Basically, a delegate Submarket that takes the actual Submarket object, and it's plugin, delegates all calls to Submarket except getPlugin, which will return instead another delegate, this time of the original plugin which delegates all calls to the actual plugin except illegal checks (which will delegate calls, but if not illegal will additionally check weapons). A bit of a roundabout way of doing things, but will work with whatever implementation of submarket is currently in use (e.g. all mods).

Code
        MarketAPI market;// currently opened market (on dock, via listener)
        SubmarketAPI submarket = market.getSubmarket(Submarkets.SUBMARKET_OPEN);
        market.addSubmarket(new DelegatedSubmarket(submarket));// add delegated market
        market.removeSubmarket(Submarkets.SUBMARKET_OPEN);// remove normal open market

With delegate being something akin to:
Code
@RequiredArgsConstructor // lombok automatically makes constructor for all final properties
public class DelegatedSubmarket impements SubmarketAPI {
    @Delegate // lombok automatically makes a method for each method in SubmarketAPI that will call submarket.method(); ezpz
    private final  SubmarketAPI submarket;// original submarket implementation

    public SubmarketPlugin getPlugin() {
          return new DelegatedSubmarketPlugin(submarket.getPlugin());// this being just another delegate
    }
}

Plus reverse code for market closed (fetch original open market from the delegate). Basically a decorator pattern where we just change one behaviour of the original object.

Sadly, it will most likely not work despite being correct and compiling as Alex codes for concrete (obfuscated) implementations, and not for the exposed API interfaces (so my delegates will be missing methods / be incompatible).
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: JUDGE! slowpersun on October 29, 2021, 01:41:11 PM
Sadly, it will most likely not work despite being correct and compiling as Alex codes for concrete (obfuscated) implementations, and not for the exposed API interfaces (so my delegates will be missing methods / be incompatible).

Hopefully you luck out and Alex takes pity on this issue...
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: IonDragonX on November 03, 2021, 02:38:15 PM
@Jaghaimo
I found the post below in the Suggestions Forum. It strikes me as a good idea to make the sector economy become more alive and difficult at the same time. Do you think this is in line with your Starpocalypse mod?
Inhospitable Factions Should Embargo
If you are inhospitable with a faction, they won't give you docking clearance at their markets. The same principle should apply with market supply/demand so faction hostilities have clear and direct economic consequences.
For example, if a market demands 7 fuel, but is inhospitable or hostile with all 7+ fuel suppliers, they should get a shortage equal to their deficit.
Vice versa, if a supplier is inhospitable or hostile to every market that demands a good at their supply level, they should be stuck with a surplus.
[close]
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Vivelaraclette on November 06, 2021, 12:53:47 PM
Amazing mod and a gift when mixed with ruthless sector ah ! The fact that you can't buy your precious warship and stuff like gauss canon on day 3 on a backwater open civilian market is great.

I agree with a previous comment that some light weapons should still be sold on civilian and maybe a bit more on the blackmarket but honestly, your work is already a refreshing experience for starsector

Regards
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: IonDragonX on November 06, 2021, 01:25:26 PM
I agree with a previous comment that some light weapons should still be sold on civilian and maybe a bit more on the blackmarket but honestly, your work is already a refreshing experience for starsector
On the other hand, @Alex was talking about an Arms Dealer contact showing up with weapons and not just ships. That makes the balance of this mod a little bit more up in the air.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Helldiver on December 02, 2021, 12:24:24 PM
Is there a way to blacklist specific markets for adding ground defences/patrol hq/station?
There are certain markets added by mods for vanilla factions for which having full defenses (or defenses at all) doesn't make sense, like the dilapidated refinery in ORA or indie Valca in Magellans.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Jaghaimo on December 02, 2021, 12:41:09 PM
StationAdder: ORA should never get a station as it does not exist in https://github.com/jaghaimo/starpocalypse/blob/master/assets/data/starpocalypse/stationFactionMap.csv

IndustryChanger: Nope, it only skips player markets. I'll be making it more configurable at one point, right now the focus is on Stelnet.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Helldiver on December 02, 2021, 12:49:45 PM
StationAdder: ORA should never get a station as it does not exist in https://github.com/jaghaimo/starpocalypse/blob/master/assets/data/starpocalypse/stationFactionMap.csv

IndustryChanger: Nope, it only skips player markets. I'll be making it more configurable at one point, right now the focus is on Stelnet.

I wasn't mentionning ORA the faction, but a market the mod adds to a vanilla faction-

There are certain markets added by mods for vanilla factions

-Indie in that example's case.

Happy to hear it'll be more configurable in the future. Starpocalypse became one of my essentials the moment it was released.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Thogapotomus on December 05, 2021, 07:13:57 AM
Just found this mod and I'm so excited to use it. It's a rare day when I actually salvage any ships, because with stellnet I can just find the ones I want and in better condition too. This should definitely give more of a rags to riches style of playthrough, that I enjoy. Thanks!
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Szasz on December 15, 2021, 12:00:10 PM
The scarcity of combat hardware incentivize players to get along with pirates, so a logical step forward seem to be changing the currently pointless reputation mechanic for the pirates faction. Is that feasible for the scope of this mod?
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Jaghaimo on December 15, 2021, 12:52:51 PM
What do you mean by "changing reputation mechanics"? It already is fairly easy to fix your rep with pirates (between contacts, and trading).
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Szasz on December 15, 2021, 01:48:13 PM
What do you mean by "changing reputation mechanics"? It already is fairly easy to fix your rep with pirates (between contacts, and trading).
What I meant is my playthroughs that focused on befriending pirates were lacking and the game somehow felt unfinished. What are the benefits and consequences of having good relations with the pirates? IIRC pretty much nothing and I'd like to see that rectified. Does this makes sense?
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Szasz on December 15, 2021, 01:49:07 PM
Oh, btw, is it safe to play 1.4.0 on Starsector 0.95.1a?
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Jaghaimo on December 15, 2021, 01:58:30 PM
No idea, try yourself. If it crashes, just disable. If it will crash, it will do it quickly. I'll see if I can release my next update tomorrow, have some nasties prepared :)
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Szasz on December 15, 2021, 02:17:37 PM
No idea, try yourself. If it crashes, just disable. If it will crash, it will do it quickly. I'll see if I can release my next update tomorrow, have some nasties prepared :)
Seems working.
Will be the next version backwards compatible and safe to add onto an ongoing save?
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Jaghaimo on December 15, 2021, 02:24:59 PM
Always. Starpocalypse does not add anything that is not present in vanilla, as such is always safe to update or remove.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Szasz on December 15, 2021, 02:29:59 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: EmperorOfMankind on December 15, 2021, 06:49:58 PM
Is it save game compatable?
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Yunru on December 16, 2021, 03:01:08 AM
Is it save game compatable?
Reading is an essential skill for anyone wishing to use the Internet. It can therefore be assumed that you know how to read. Which begs the question why you are not doing so.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: EmperorOfMankind on December 16, 2021, 06:05:23 AM
Is it save game compatable?
Reading is an essential skill for anyone wishing to use the Internet. It can therefore be assumed that you know how to read. Which begs the question why you are not doing so.

You took time to post all that when you could just say Yes or no  ;D I posted it bc apparently Im blind and didnt see if it said it or not. Sorry if its too much of an inconvenience for you to just say yes or no our grand overlord.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Jaghaimo on December 16, 2021, 06:07:33 AM
I don't think Yunru meant this in a bad way, we have an ongoing joke on Discord (type !reading) as people keep on asking things that has been (often minutes before) talked about. Just like your question (25 minutes after I elaborated how it is, and always will be, save game compatible).

Anyway, stay tuned for 2.0.0 release later this week!
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: EmperorOfMankind on December 16, 2021, 07:11:46 AM
I don't think Yunru meant this in a bad way, we have an ongoing joke on Discord (type !reading) as people keep on asking things that has been (often minutes before) talked about. Just like your question (25 minutes after I elaborated how it is, and always will be, save game compatible.

Anyway, stay tuned for 2.0.0 release later today!

My bad. As Im not aquated with the discord it sounded like open hostility for no reason. Thank you for clearing this up and answering my question.  ;D
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
Post by: Yunru on December 16, 2021, 08:35:41 AM
Is it save game compatable?
Reading is an essential skill for anyone wishing to use the Internet. It can therefore be assumed that you know how to read. Which begs the question why you are not doing so.

You took time to post all that when you could just say Yes or no  ;D I posted it bc apparently Im blind and didnt see if it said it or not. Sorry if its too much of an inconvenience for you to just say yes or no our grand overlord.
Your prostration and acknowledgement of our true rank has been noted. Come the cleansing, you shall be spared.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on December 17, 2021, 09:45:46 AM
New release is out. Some balancing and more changes to ruin your day. Enjoy!~

Quote from: Changelog
- Decrease quality of core world ships by taking away special goodies (e.g. nanoforges, synchrotrons).
- Add marines and special items (like hull modspecs) to military regulations and contraband.
- Remove independents (faction) from military regulations.
- Remove Black Market (submarket) from military regulations.
- Disable ability to trade on Black Market if the transponder is on (only for factions with military regulations enabled).
- Damage starting fleet members on new game.
- Reduce amount of logging that happens.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: A_Random_Dude on December 17, 2021, 10:53:48 AM
Hum... Interesting, but what does that "Reduce amount of logging that happens" mean? The mod prevents us from quick-loading?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on December 17, 2021, 11:09:20 AM
Previous versions would spam messages in the log file. Technical change if anything.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: SpaceDrake on December 17, 2021, 07:40:32 PM
Hmm, I'm not nearly as big a fan of the nanoforge thing. Like, it's a significant part of the setting that a few polities have access to the substantially better manufacturing standards than the rest of the sector, and their ships reflect this. It's been two hundred years of struggle for the sector to get even where it is, and more importantly, this makes potential enemies of the player weaker because now they'll be d-modded. I get the idea is "make it harder for the player to get pristine stuff quickly", but this approach has a lot of rippling changes throughout the entire game. Now, you've made it toggleable, which is good! But I think a lot of people are likely to turn it off.

That being said, in general I like the general thrust of this mod. It always felt a little odd that Mark IX Autocannons and whatnot were something you could fly up and buy, or occasionally you'd even find A Whole Ass Capital Ship for sale on the open market. The Sector might be a little wild up in space, but that always felt a bit off, so I especially appreciate the market adjustment module and the way it works.

I did want to echo previous feedback that I do think it would make sense for certain point-defense guns to be allowed under the regulations, though. Like autocannons and missile launchers being controlled, sure, that's understandable, but I could absolutely see things like light machine guns or vulcans being allowed for sale for merchant captains. Currently, you can buy a ship hull on the open market but can't even necessarily arm it, and with the current state of the Sector, that feels... a little strict, even for the Hegemony, in-universe. I think they'd allow for "defensive" weapons to be sold (since these aren't really that useful in a true military sense and only mad pirates and luddics try to use them on warships against other warships), though I can also see how the implementation of this could be a pain.

There's also a bit of a funny interaction with what ships are allowed, because the ship screening module appears to be filtering ships by looking for the civ-grade hull mod, rather than the CIVILIAN tag in the ship data. This isn't too bad for vanilla ships, but creates a bit of oddness with some mods; Diable is the big example. Part of Diable's gimmick is that, as part of their plan to compete with their rivals and win over spacers in their quest to "reclaim" the Sector, their "civilian" ships are technically military-grade. Their "big" freighter is a decommissioned cruiser with the scarier bits ripped out for cargo space, but it's still got that military drive train and hull in-lore, for example; their smaller support ships are also designed to be mil-spec but not actually a military threat, and thus something you could sell to people outside of Diable control without too much worry. So they're largely intended for export and should be available on the Diable open markets, but because of how the filter works, their open markets are currently entirely empty and you need a Diable commission to get their support ships, which isn't (as far as I can tell) how it's supposed to work in-universe.

So, I think if the regulatory routine got a bit of a rewrite to filter by the CIVILIAN tag in ship_data, rather than looking for the hullmod, that would help with the verisimilitude a bit and help support mods that get a bit creative with the interpretation of what a "civilian" ship is.

Still, a really great mod, and thank you for putting it together!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: IonDragonX on December 17, 2021, 08:03:24 PM
Is it possible to make whitelists & blacklists for the Market, Military Market and Black Market?
I'd like to buy Mining lasers & Mining Blaster in most Markets, Machine Guns in most Military Markets and Harpoons in most Black Markets.
Some mods add weapons that I disagree with and would like to blacklist from markets in general.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: starman13 on December 17, 2021, 10:42:33 PM
Is it possible to make whitelists & blacklists for the Market, Military Market and Black Market?
I'd like to buy Mining lasers & Mining Blaster in most Markets, Machine Guns in most Military Markets and Harpoons in most Black Markets.
Some mods add weapons that I disagree with and would like to blacklist from markets in general.

I hacked together a quick edit that allows a whitelist and blacklist of items and ships. I made it so that point defense weapons and combat freighters like Cerberus are not considered contraband. I could submit it for review if Jaghaimo is amenable.

BTW in the 2.0 version the contraband in the black market no longer seem to be limited by market stability. Is that what this means "Remove Black Market (submarket) from military regulations."? It's harder to access the black market now, but if I go in dark and access the black market it seems to have a full range of weapons and ships even in stability 10 markets where in 1.4 the black market had no contraband under those conditions.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: SpaceDrake on December 17, 2021, 11:36:35 PM
It's behaving like the vanilla black market (where it has a lot of equipment/stuff available even at Stab10), so I would assume that's the idea, yes. Getting to a lot of polities, especially in the otherwise vanilla game (and with everywhere having patrol HQs now) completely undetected can be quite a challenge, so I assume that's the entire idea of the trade-off. It also makes free ports quite a bit more attractive since it's a lot easier to just cruise on in to one with your transponder off.

Funnily enough, I actually reverted the change to independents being exempt on my end, since I run a decent few mods with well-developed independent markets (Arma, Tahlan Shipworks, etc) so it made sense for them to still behave like highly regulated polities.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Oni on December 18, 2021, 01:11:14 AM
Can't say I'm too much of a fan of the "Shy Black Market" function.

Doesn't completely removing the ability to access the black market with your transponder on make the 'suspicion' mechanic useless?

I can understand making it with your transponder off giving you a better selection along with not accruing suspicion, but removing it completely seems like taking out a relatively important part of trading (ie balancing your BM trades with your legit ones to maximize profit while avoiding suspicion).
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on December 18, 2021, 01:41:44 AM
Wow, it's been a while since I had so much feedback after one release. Something to note though - Starpocalypse is a meme mod, or at least started as one. All.of it features are low hanging fruits, or are implemented in a cheaty way.

Having said that, seeing that the mod is slowly getting a loyal fan base, I will be improving certain aspects of it.

Quote
Doesn't completely removing the ability to access the black market with your transponder on make the 'suspicion' mechanic useless?

Shy Black Market will be changed, you will be able to access it with transponder on, but items and ships that fall under military regulations will be illegal. This is a buff from previous behaviour where they were straight up removed or moved to military market. It is possible to revert this (even now) by disabling shy market in settings and adding back black market to csv.

Quote
I hacked together a quick edit that allows a whitelist and blacklist of items and ships. I made it so that point defense weapons and combat freighters like Cerberus are not considered contraband. I could submit it for review if Jaghaimo is amenable.

Yes please, open a PR against my repo.

Quote
BTW in the 2.0 version the contraband in the black market no longer seem to be limited by market stability. Is that what this means "Remove Black Market (submarket) from military regulations."?

Correct.

Quote
Hmm, I'm not nearly as big a fan of the nanoforge thing. Like, it's a significant part of the setting that a few polities have access to the substantially better manufacturing standards than the rest of the sector, and their ships reflect this.

Happy to reimplement this. One thing I was thinking about was replacing pristine with corrupted, or just giving corrupted to other factions, or just removing all but giving a nano forge like bonus anyway (maybe smaller).

Quote
I did want to echo previous feedback that I do think it would make sense for certain point-defense guns to be allowed under the regulations, though.

I'll make an option to allow that (on by default).

Quote
So, I think if the regulatory routine got a bit of a rewrite to filter by the CIVILIAN tag in ship_data, rather than looking for the hullmod, that would help with the verisimilitude a bit and help support mods that get a bit creative with the interpretation of what a "civilian" ship is.

Last time I checked, vanilla had hullmods and no tags. Will have to look into it again, perhaps a mix of tag, civ hull mod, and no mil systems is the way to go.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Oni on December 18, 2021, 02:22:59 AM
....
Quote
Doesn't completely removing the ability to access the black market with your transponder on make the 'suspicion' mechanic useless?

Shy Black Market will be changed, you will be able to access it with transponder on, but items and ships that fall under military regulations will be illegal. This is a buff from previous behaviour where they were straight up removed or moved to military market. It is possible to revert this (even now) by disabling shy market in settings and adding back black market to csv.
...
Oh I know, I'd already noticed it in the settings and having options is always good, but since it was active "by default" I considered it a function of the mod "as intended" so to speak.  8)

One thing you could do, if you had intended to keep it inaccessible I mean, was perhaps make some bar encounters regarding it. Say overhearing some smugglers or paying off a pirate (cost depending on rep with them) gives you access to the BM regardless of transponder state for a week (it would then "change location" and you'd have to find it again).
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: starman13 on December 18, 2021, 03:56:30 AM
Quote
Yes please, open a PR against my repo.

Done.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on December 18, 2021, 05:23:48 AM
Thanks man13, you're a star.

I'll merge your changes to a branch tonight, and weave it into a release next week.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: IonDragonX on December 18, 2021, 11:16:09 AM
Wow, it's been a while since I had so much feedback after one release. Something to note though - Starpocalypse is a meme mod, or at least started as one. All.of it features are low hanging fruits, or are implemented in a cheaty way.
Having said that, seeing that the mod is slowly getting a loyal fan base, I will be improving certain aspects of it.

I am... actually surprised to hear that you started this as a "meme mod". I truly thought that this was a mod to support the whole storyline! The sector is struggling to survive a power vacuum and a devolution of technology. There would not be a 'open market' that would allow a military advantage to randos. The military establishment cannot be optionally ignored. Just choose to be 'on the inside' or 'on the outside'; not neither/both if you are in front of witnesses. With your mod, the contact system becomes more vital. Committing to a side is key and 'all of them are wrong anyway'. I'll pick Independents, thanks.
I have always appreciated your modding. Part of that is Starpocalypse and stelnet feel, to me, like they should be a part of the base game because of the setting. Kudos!

Quote
Doesn't completely removing the ability to access the black market with your transponder on make the 'suspicion' mechanic useless?
Shy Black Market will be changed, you will be able to access it with transponder on, but items and ships that fall under military regulations will be illegal. This is a buff from previous behaviour where they were straight up removed or moved to military market. It is possible to revert this (even now) by disabling shy market in settings and adding back black market to csv.

I can see going back to the "suspicion level:extreme" original design. Here's a suggestion that wouldn't be easy but maybe for the future, On the market screen that says 1)Comms 2)Bar 3)Trade etc. could you add an option? Other mods have done it. I suggest this option added: Misdirect Suspicion (1 SP). It doesn't have to show if you have zero at the time. The effect would be that your Suspicion level is back to zero and stays there for the rest of the month but a random NPC hates your guts with a passion.

Quote
Hmm, I'm not nearly as big a fan of the nanoforge thing. Like, it's a significant part of the setting that a few polities have access to the substantially better manufacturing standards than the rest of the sector, and their ships reflect this.
Happy to reimplement this. One thing I was thinking about was replacing pristine with corrupted, or just giving corrupted to other factions, or just removing all but giving a nano forge like bonus anyway (maybe smaller).

I know that the economy of goods gets thrown off if you remove those kind of items so I'm in agreement. May I suggest a doctrine change of the offending faction if dmods must be in the fleets? Maybe just nerf the Industry skills directly? To prevent the player from raiding away the items, perhaps a fat defense fleet be permanently chained to the planet if they exist. Remember the tutorial mission had a defense force permanently circling Ancyra? Something like that. Starpocalypse already is adding defensive buildings so why not?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: SpaceDrake on December 18, 2021, 08:36:02 PM
Yeah, it's funny: I can totally see how this began life as a meme mod, but the thing is, you've addressed something that I think has bugged a lot of players for a while. (https://i.imgur.com/kcBTfAR.gif) The Sector might be a bit of a wild frontier, but especially in the modern game, it's clear that the major faction-polities should have more than enough organization and power to prevent the sale of dangerous materiel to independent, unaffiliated spacers. The way it's set up now is in service of making sure folks, especially newer players, get into Spaceship Fights™ as easily as possible, but I much prefer adding a bit of verisimilitude to the game by having access to military technology be significantly more tightly controlled, unless you go out of your way to travel to obviously extra-legal locales.

On that note... I've actually warmed up extremely quickly to 2.0's current system of handling black markets, to the point that I went and rewrote/expanded the market tooltips in my own game to reflect how it works. (https://i.imgur.com/kcBTfAR.gif) I actually very much like the idea that, especially at the worlds of the larger multi-polity governments, even trying to contact general underground markets to move things in bulk while you're being tracked and monitored is basically impossible. Yes, it kind of overrides Starsector's base game logic for black markets, but to be honest, that logic has always struck me as a little dubious anyway, especially at larger planets that have broader controls and actual military bases. Getting in touch with the "black market" of Chicomoztoc, or Kazeron, or Sindria, or any Diable base, or any Imperium world, or what have you, should be really hard and require a lot of stealth. And since a lot of those planets/bases are difficult to approach in that manner, the rewards should be commiserate with the challenge (e.g., it's time to buy SOME EFFIN' GUNZ). For the cherry on top, this even ties into the lore for both some of the vanilla markets (like all the Sindrian ones) and in certain mods, which use the market description text to posit that if you're going in undetected, what you're accessing as the black market is completely separate from the standard commercial markets of that given polity/volume. So I guess you can put me in the column for keeping it the way it is, but I there are definitely multiple approaches to this idea that are equally valid. (And, most importantly, these all make bar encounters a lot more valuable, because they're a much easier way of getting your hands on hardware, and it makes face-to-face interaction feel a lot more valuable because it's just that bit much harder for The Man to clamp down on.)

As far as the nanoforges go... I do get that the real thing we're trying to address here is "the solution for player industrial output is to steal the Chico or Kazeron pristines, or any other pristines a mod may add". The design intent is clearly for pristine forges to be either something a player finds rarely during sector exploration (with one not remotely guaranteed to appear in a game outside of maybe the historian) or commit heavy resources to trying to acquire an existing one. It's just that Alex has underestimated what "heavy" resources should be; it's too easy to steal one, and with story points as of .95 (a system I otherwise like a lot) you can even avoid detection for it. It's just far too easy to acquire one and start pooping out constant perfect capital ships.

So while it's probably significantly more work, my suggestion would be to make a change to raid behavior. Specifically, it should be much, MUCH harder to steal a Colony Item via raiding; I'm talking like "a raiding power equivalent to at least upper-tens of thousands of marines is required for it", since the opponent is going to throw literally everything they have at trying to stop you, and also there should be no story point option for avoiding consequences, because of the sheer scale of the operation required.

And those consequences should be the equivalent of a saturation bombing. Or worse.

Like, think about it: you are dismantling, stealing, and putting at risk an absolutely critical piece of infrastructure that is helping to keep the Sector going, literally for your personal benefit. It's the sort of *** that the sector spent much of the earlier cycles of post-Collapse history trying to stop when fighting maniacs like Loke. In doing this, you are bringing The Bad Old Days back to the Sector, and literally everyone should hate your guts for it and try to destroy you for doing it.

So I think that would make for a more engaging solution to the Nanoforge Problem™: the player should still be able to do it, but it should require truly epic resources and a fleet engineered specifically for that objective, and the consequences for doing so should be fairly dire. It makes finding your own nanoforge a much more attractive proposition.

Either way, I'm glad you're so engaged with the mod, Jaghaimo! Hopefully this feedback is helpful. ;D
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Oni on December 18, 2021, 09:14:35 PM
Yeah, it's funny: I can totally see how this began life as a meme mod, but the thing is, you've addressed something that I think has bugged a lot of players for a while. (https://i.imgur.com/kcBTfAR.gif) The Sector might be a bit of a wild frontier, but especially in the modern game, it's clear that the major faction-polities should have more than enough organization and power to prevent the sale of dangerous materiel to independent, unaffiliated spacers. The way it's set up now is in service of making sure folks, especially newer players, get into Spaceship Fights%u2122 as easily as possible, but I much prefer adding a bit of verisimilitude to the game by having access to military technology be significantly more tightly controlled, unless you go out of your way to travel to obviously extra-legal locales.

On that note... I've actually warmed up extremely quickly to 2.0's current system of handling black markets, to the point that I went and rewrote/expanded the market tooltips in my own game to reflect how it works. (https://i.imgur.com/kcBTfAR.gif) I actually very much like the idea that, especially at the worlds of the larger multi-polity governments, even trying to contact general underground markets to move things in bulk while you're being tracked and monitored is basically impossible. Yes, it kind of overrides Starsector's base game logic for black markets, but to be honest, that logic has always struck me as a little dubious anyway, especially at larger planets that have broader controls and actual military bases. Getting in touch with the "black market" of Chicomoztoc, or Kazeron, or Sindria, or any Diable base, or any Imperium world, or what have you, should be really hard and require a lot of stealth. And since a lot of those planets/bases are difficult to approach in that manner, the rewards should be commiserate with the challenge (e.g., it's time to buy SOME EFFIN' GUNZ). For the cherry on top, this even ties into the lore for both some of the vanilla markets (like all the Sindrian ones) and in certain mods, which use the market description text to posit that if you're going in undetected, what you're accessing as the black market is completely separate from the standard commercial markets of that given polity/volume. So I guess you can put me in the column for keeping it the way it is, but I there are definitely multiple approaches to this idea that are equally valid. (And, most importantly, these all make bar encounters a lot more valuable, because they're a much easier way of getting your hands on hardware, and it makes face-to-face interaction feel a lot more valuable because it's just that bit much harder for The Man to clamp down on.)...

Yeah, but you don't just buy weapons on the black market. There's more legal goods and supplies that you're just avoiding paying tariffs on which become rather important if you're playing more of a merchant/smuggler character. Which is why I suggested earlier about introducing some bar encounters earlier that can give you temporary access to the BM, since while bar based arms merchants can deal with your guns issue they can't deal with bulk goods (or drugs and heavy armaments).

... As far as the nanoforges go... I do get that the real thing we're trying to address here is "the solution for player industrial output is to steal the Chico or Kazeron pristines, or any other pristines a mod may add". The design intent is clearly for pristine forges to be either something a player finds rarely during sector exploration (with one not remotely guaranteed to appear in a game outside of maybe the historian) or commit heavy resources to trying to acquire an existing one. It's just that Alex has underestimated what "heavy" resources should be; it's too easy to steal one, and with story points as of .95 (a system I otherwise like a lot) you can even avoid detection for it. It's just far too easy to acquire one and start pooping out constant perfect capital ships.

So while it's probably significantly more work, my suggestion would be to make a change to raid behavior. Specifically, it should be much, MUCH harder to steal a Colony Item via raiding; I'm talking like "a raiding power equivalent to at least upper-tens of thousands of marines is required for it", since the opponent is going to throw literally everything they have at trying to stop you, and also there should be no story point option for avoiding consequences, because of the sheer scale of the operation required.

And those consequences should be the equivalent of a saturation bombing. Or worse.

Like, think about it: you are dismantling, stealing, and putting at risk an absolutely critical piece of infrastructure that is helping to keep the Sector going, literally for your personal benefit. It's the sort of *** that the sector spent much of the earlier cycles of post-Collapse history trying to stop when fighting maniacs like Loke. In doing this, you are bringing The Bad Old Days back to the Sector, and literally everyone should hate your guts for it and try to destroy you for doing it.

So I think that would make for a more engaging solution to the Nanoforge Problem%u2122: the player should still be able to do it, but it should require truly epic resources and a fleet engineered specifically for that objective, and the consequences for doing so should be fairly dire. It makes finding your own nanoforge a much more attractive proposition.

Either way, I'm glad you're so engaged with the mod, Jaghaimo! Hopefully this feedback is helpful. ;D

That's an idea I can get behind, stealing major parts of infrastructure should be significantly difficult and cause political problems... unless you're taking it from pirates or something. Nobody likes them after all.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Szasz on December 20, 2021, 02:17:54 AM
This mod is actually a credit saver. It guarantees good performance ships for cheap on every market with only a single d-mod.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: IonDragonX on December 21, 2021, 04:27:09 PM
Shy Black Market will be changed, you will be able to access it with transponder on, but items and ships that fall under military regulations will be illegal. This is a buff from previous behaviour where they were straight up removed or moved to military market. It is possible to revert this (even now) by disabling shy market in settings and adding back black market to csv.
Yo, dude. Both SCC and Alex are talking about Shy Black Market:

I would have made pirates target successful traders, but I'm not Alex.
Same. I'm still hoping to add that to ruthless sector some day, or make a new mod for it. I'm also a big fan of how Jaghaimo made black markets only accessible when transponders are turned off in Starpocalypse.
FWIW, I've got some notes in this general direction, especially vis a vis smuggling and the risks (or lack of risks) inherent in it.

Alex must really like the game concept!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: JUDGE! slowpersun on December 21, 2021, 06:08:48 PM
This mod is actually a credit saver. It guarantees good performance ships for cheap on every market with only a single d-mod.

There is a possibility that this is just an unintentional side effect of mod...
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: SpaceDrake on December 21, 2021, 10:00:31 PM
This mod is actually a credit saver. It guarantees good performance ships for cheap on every market with only a single d-mod.

There is a possibility that this is just an unintentional side effect of mod...

It is a decent point, though. For example, an Imperium Matriarch should be around 680-700k to buy new from the military market, but because of how d-mod pricing works, you can get it for only a bit more than 600k. It's a pretty significant discount.

I wonder if Starpoc should adjust d-mod pricing for ships, too? Or perhaps adjust how it scales.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on December 22, 2021, 12:32:25 AM
I have so far avoided changing the bade game settings. The ability to adjust purchase and sell prices, as well as dmod discount is in Starsector data/config/settings.json (not Starpocalypse one).
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Szasz on December 22, 2021, 12:52:20 AM
This mod is actually a credit saver. It guarantees good performance ships for cheap on every market with only a single d-mod.
There is a possibility that this is just an unintentional side effect of mod...
It is a decent point, though. For example, an Imperium Matriarch should be around 680-700k to buy new from the military market, but because of how d-mod pricing works, you can get it for only a bit more than 600k. It's a pretty significant discount.

I wonder if Starpoc should adjust d-mod pricing for ships, too? Or perhaps adjust how it scales.
The issue at its core is the game treating d-modded ships all the same as far prices go. It doesn't matter how much of them plague a hull, 1 d-mod translates to the same discount as 6. (Rarely a few hundred credit difference rears its head for god knows why but that doesn't count.)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: JUDGE! slowpersun on December 22, 2021, 01:30:11 AM
The issue at its core is the game treating d-modded ships all the same as far prices go. It doesn't matter how much of them plague a hull, 1 d-mod translates to the same discount as 6. (Rarely a few hundred credit difference rears its head for god knows why but that doesn't count.)

Hmmm, this might be more of a core game issue.  Maybe drop something on suggestions forum?  Be a nice change from the econ debate exploding right now...
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on December 22, 2021, 05:17:26 AM
The issue at its core is the game treating d-modded ships all the same as far prices go. It doesn't matter how much of them plague a hull, 1 d-mod translates to the same discount as 6. (Rarely a few hundred credit difference rears its head for god knows why but that doesn't count.)

This sounds like a bug. Vanilla setting states it is a multiplier per dmod, I'll see how it works exactly and report as a bug if necessary.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: robepriority on December 27, 2021, 08:24:07 AM
Hmm... I haven't been here in a while so I might be talking out of hand, but is the mod index still being updated? I didn't see this on here.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on December 27, 2021, 08:26:08 AM
Both of my mods are there, just not marked as 0.95.1a:
Quote
[0.95a] Starpocalypse by Jaghaimo
[0.95a] Stellar Networks by Jaghaimo
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: IonDragonX on December 27, 2021, 08:55:36 AM
Hmm... I haven't been here in a while so I might be talking out of hand, but is the mod index still being updated? I didn't see this on here.
@Thaago
Could you update the Mod Index, please?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: boogiebogus on December 28, 2021, 06:41:19 PM
I feel like while removing nanoforges from planets more or less works out, i think it would be better if the synchotron cores stayed. It leads to planets with high command being incredibly ***, with massive fuel shortages (holy ***, sindria is not okay) - not to mention fuel prices being very high.

Sometimes, i stare at how many credits it takes to refuel, and i cry.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Oni on December 28, 2021, 10:07:20 PM
I feel like while removing nanoforges from planets more or less works out, i think it would be better if the synchotron cores stayed. It leads to planets with high command being incredibly ***, with massive fuel shortages (holy ***, sindria is not okay) - not to mention fuel prices being very high.

Sometimes, i stare at how many credits it takes to refuel, and i cry.

Shouldn't Sindra be one of the few planets that does have a Synchotron Core, since lore wise their entire "thing" is fuel production?

Perhaps there should be a white list for a few things they're allowed to keep, such as a Synchotron Core for the Sindrian Diktat and and a Corrupted Nanoforge for the Hegemony (given that they're known for their fuel and the size of their military respectively).

In order to make those harder to steal... is it possible to arrange it so you have to disable their space station before being able to take it? It is a major part of their infrastructure after all, kinda noticeable if you take it. Then have a large, dedicated, defence fleet attached to that station that can't be lured away.... and as a result the only way you're taking that item is through total war.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on December 29, 2021, 03:19:18 AM
Quote
Shouldn't Sindra be one of the few planets that does have a Synchotron Core, since lore wise their entire "thing" is fuel production?


I will probably change the behaviour in the next release - remove the items (so player cannot steal them), but keep the bonuses (so it doesn't mess the economy). Perhaps slightly less bonus for nanoforges (4 instead of 5 for pristine, 2 instead of 3 for corrupted).


Quote
In order to make those harder to steal... is it possible to arrange it so you have to disable their space station before being able to take it? It is a major part of their infrastructure after all, kinda noticeable if you take it. Then have a large, dedicated, defence fleet attached to that station that can't be lured away.... and as a result the only way you're taking that item is through total war.

Hmm, this gave me the idea of true garrison fleets - in order to raid you need to disable stations, but when you do a new garrison fleet is mobilised to defend it (FP based on tier of station).
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Oni on December 29, 2021, 09:59:14 AM
... I will probably change the behaviour in the next release - remove the items (so player cannot steal them), but keep the bonuses (so it doesn't mess the economy). Perhaps slightly less bonus for nanoforges (4 instead of 5 for pristine, 2 instead of 3 for corrupted)....

I'd recommend against giving "invisible" bonuses to the AI, it'll make things feel arbitrary... you could, if you want to go that far, give that world a unique structure/industry (replacing whatever industry produced the thing in question) that gives the desired bonus. Call it something thematic for whatever bonus you want and say they store proprietary specialized techniques and equipment there, thus it's something that can't simply be stolen. You have to take the entire colony to get it, though you'd have to make sure the world can't double up on the thing in question and get super bonuses (ie can't use another item or a normal Industry alongside the special one). No need to mess with nonoforge bonuses that way either.

Heck, maybe the structure gives an even better bonus than the item. For the example of Sindria say that it's "A Synchrotron Core embedded deeply into a specialized facility, boosted with techniques developed by the Diktat over generations" and have the structure give a 5 fuel production boost instead of 3. If the player takes the colony then they can use the structure and get the bonus, or they can demolish it and get a Synchrotron Core but never be able to build it again.

... Hmm, this gave me the idea of true garrison fleets - in order to raid you need to disable stations, but when you do a new garrison fleet is mobilised to defend it (FP based on tier of station).

Key worlds would be heavily guarded, but I'd advise against making them too common. As it would render raiding at all a useless mechanic.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Flying Birdy on December 30, 2021, 03:51:26 AM
Is anyone finding that the download from github is missing the mod_info.json file? The download doesn't contain it and my launcher doesn't detect the mod.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on December 30, 2021, 08:53:13 AM
Is anyone finding that the download from github is missing the mod_info.json file? The download doesn't contain it and my launcher doesn't detect the mod.

This happens when you download source code instead of the release. Download file named starpocalypse-2.0.0.zip.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: SpaceDrake on December 31, 2021, 05:08:47 AM
I will probably change the behaviour in the next release - remove the items (so player cannot steal them), but keep the bonuses (so it doesn't mess the economy). Perhaps slightly less bonus for nanoforges (4 instead of 5 for pristine, 2 instead of 3 for corrupted).

I still think the more interesting thing would be to change the requirements and consequences of raiding for a colony item, but I also understand just how much more work that would be. (Really, this is something I should be bugging Alex about...)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on December 31, 2021, 05:50:54 AM
I do agree. But as you said, the scope of work is large. In fact, it is larger than the sum of everything I did in this mod so far.

Perhaps you could advocate for such change in the Nexerelin instead?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Yunru on December 31, 2021, 06:19:11 AM
I was about to say, raiding a colony item seems like the thing that'd get a vengeance fleet sent against you.

The biggest hurdle, IMO, is the ability to use a story point to prevent anyone from knowing who you are, as narratively that restricts a lot of otherwise good responses.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Chronia on December 31, 2021, 02:02:13 PM
I just wanted to take a second to say thank you for making all of this behavior configurable! I really like some of the changes (market scarcity) and don't love others (removing factions' colony items) and being able to select which parts are applied is perfect.

Edit: After using it a bit more, one suggestion I'd make is to re-introduce the random number of d-mods on ships in markets. I'm not super worried about the credit cost discount mentioned by others, it simply feels very off that they all have exactly one d-mod.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on January 02, 2022, 01:35:39 PM
I think I took account of everything in this discussion:

Code
    ## D-MODS FOR ALL
    # Damage pristine ships that the player can buy.
    "addDmodsToShipsInSubmarkets": true,
    # Damage pristine ships in player's starting fleet.
    "addDmodsToPlayerStartingFleet": true,
    # Configure min and max of d-mods each should have. Ships with less than min d-mods will roll a new number of
    # d-mods, and missing number of d-mods will be added. Ships with more that min (and more than max) are ignored.
    # Used by both options above.
    "minimumDmods": 2,
    "maximumDmods": 4,

    ## MILITARY REGULATIONS AND CONTRABAND
    # Buying or selling marines, weapons, LPCs, or combat ships is illegal unless you are commisioned with the owner
    # of the market. All affected items and ships are moved to Military Market (if present) or removed.
    "militaryRegulations": true,
    # Depending on the stability, some regulated items "magically" appear in the Black Market. The lower the stabiity
    # the bigger pool of items and ships gets leaked. Requires military regulations to work.
    "militaryContraband": true,


    ## BETTER MARKET DEFENCES
    # Adds a tier 1 station to all non-hidden markets that do not have a station.
    "addStations": true,
    # Add extra structures to eligible markets (Ground Defenses and Patrol HQ).
    "addExtraStructures": true,

    ## OTHER
    # After winning an egagement, the enemies of the beaten fleet will have a slighly better reputation of you.
    # Their allies will dislike you slighly more though.
    "combatAdjustedReputation": true,
    # Raiding for special items instantly shatters player reputation with the owner of the item.
    "hostilityForSpecialItemRaid": true,

Noteworthy:
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: IonDragonX on January 02, 2022, 01:43:43 PM
I think I took account of everything in this discussion:
Spoiler
Code
    ## D-MODS FOR ALL
    # Damage pristine ships that the player can buy.
    "addDmodsToShipsInSubmarkets": true,
    # Damage pristine ships in player's starting fleet.
    "addDmodsToPlayerStartingFleet": true,
    # Configure min and max of d-mods each should have. Ships with less than min d-mods will roll a new number of
    # d-mods, and missing number of d-mods will be added. Ships with more that min (and more than max) are ignored.
    # Used by both options above.
    "minimumDmods": 2,
    "maximumDmods": 4,

    ## MILITARY REGULATIONS AND CONTRABAND
    # Buying or selling marines, weapons, LPCs, or combat ships is illegal unless you are commisioned with the owner
    # of the market. All affected items and ships are moved to Military Market (if present) or removed.
    "militaryRegulations": true,
    # Depending on the stability, some regulated items "magically" appear in the Black Market. The lower the stabiity
    # the bigger pool of items and ships gets leaked. Requires military regulations to work.
    "militaryContraband": true,


    ## BETTER MARKET DEFENCES
    # Adds a tier 1 station to all non-hidden markets that do not have a station.
    "addStations": true,
    # Add extra structures to eligible markets (Ground Defenses and Patrol HQ).
    "addExtraStructures": true,

    ## OTHER
    # After winning an egagement, the enemies of the beaten fleet will have a slighly better reputation of you.
    # Their allies will dislike you slighly more though.
    "combatAdjustedReputation": true,
    # Raiding for special items instantly shatters player reputation with the owner of the item.
    "hostilityForSpecialItemRaid": true,

Noteworthy:
  • item remover removed (haha), and raiding the special item will RUIN your relationships with that faction - transponder off or story points will not save you.
  • military regulations is gaining legal and illegal lists for weapons and ships
  • military contraband will work on pool values instead of individual item values (say stability 10 - will "leak" 10k credits worth of goods and 20k of ships)
[close]

High Excellence! Looking forward to it.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Oni on January 02, 2022, 02:04:55 PM
...
  • item remover removed (haha), and raiding the special item will RUIN your relationships with that faction - transponder off or story points will not save you.
...

While I agree, will this affect missions that involve you grabbing things as part of missions that aren't major components of infrastructure?
Like prisoner extractions and such... does it also count AI cores?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: huntedlemon on January 02, 2022, 02:06:04 PM
Hi,

Excellent mod, really adds to the roleplaying aspect of the game. Thank you for making it.

I am having a bit of trouble getting it to work with mod factions, they all still sell gunships etc on the open market.

Ignore this, as I mentioned in discord - all working now, probably an issue my end.

Thanks
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on January 03, 2022, 01:20:59 AM
While I agree, will this affect missions that involve you grabbing things as part of missions that aren't major components of infrastructure?
Like prisoner extractions and such... does it also count AI cores?

List of items that will trigger this will be configurable, by default same as current item remover - any nanoforge or synchrotron core.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Yunru on January 05, 2022, 02:59:57 AM
This might just be a personal preference thing, but could you turn down the logging? Like, way down?

Currently it seems to log every action whenever it iterates through all the markets, resulting is several thousand duplicate lines of text.
(A single hour of playing fills up almost the whole log file currently.)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on January 05, 2022, 03:50:51 AM
This might just be a personal preference thing, but could you turn down the logging? Like, way down?

Currently it seems to log every action whenever it iterates through all the markets, resulting is several thousand duplicate lines of text.
(A single hour of playing fills up almost the whole log file currently.)

I assume this is regarding 2.0.0. Logging in 2.0.0 is already minimal. You are probably playing in debug mode, or one of the mods might be changing the default log level to DEBUG (or ALL).

To clarify, Starpocalypse does log much, but that "spam" is with DEBUG log level which normally is not shown. Default log level visibility in Starsector is INFO (or above).
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.0.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Yunru on January 05, 2022, 04:19:00 AM
Ah no, apparently I'm still on 1.4.0, somehow O.o

Edit: Because apparently I got distracted between downloading 2.0.0 and actually installing it.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.1.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on January 10, 2022, 02:10:15 AM
Updated with some feedback from the previous discussions. Not exactly how I planned (due to new listener working differently) but still happy with the result.

Download: https://github.com/jaghaimo/starpocalypse/releases/download/2.1.0/starpocalypse-2.1.0.zip

Quote
2.1.1
- Fix NPE in Military Regulations when checking blacklist against pristine ships.
- Fix Stelnet compatiblity.
- Add support for auto-updater in Mod Manager.

2.1.0
- Updated for 0.95.1a-RC6.
- Add `military regulation` and `military contraband` blacklists. Blacklisting `regulation` means the item or ship will not be illegal any more, while `contraband` blacklist means it will not be "moved" from Military to Black Market. Idea and implementation contributed by @matthewmessmer.
- Replace `item remover` with `raid protector` - raiding for defined special items instantly sets player at war with the raided faction.
- Shy Black Market took some self-confidence lessons and is no longer shy (removed this feature).
- Add random (min, max) number of d-mods to pristine ships
- Rework settings (also moved to `settings/`) and configuration (also moved to `starpocalypse.json`).

Now, I am thinking on reworking military regulations and contraband next release. It will be implemented the way people expected it initially - instead of removing items / ships from Open Market, they will be "illegal to buy or sell", just like some items on Military Market are illegal to buy. Contraband will happen directly from Open Market, and will be based on the value pool instead (something I gave up this release on).
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.1.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: SpaceDrake on January 12, 2022, 10:42:05 AM
So, I'm going to be That Guy and say that I'm actually a little sad to see shy black market go away entirely. I actually really liked that feature, or at least that feature being available to some factions/markets.

As such, a modest proposal: it'd be cool if that could come back, but it's the mod's first "default false" setting. It's there, but it's something you need to toggle on specifically. Or, if we go the extra mile, make it so that the user can configure whether BMs are shy based on either faction or specific market (e.g., the black market on Chicomoztoc takes Some Effort to access, but the guys out in the middle of bumbutt nowhere at Citadel Arcadia or Ancyra aren't as hyper-vigilant, despite those still technically being military outposts). That would be More Work, I know, but it'd feel really great and give the user a lot of control over the game experience.

Other than that, this is a good set of changes, by and large! Thank you for listening to the feedback. Though I did want to ask: is there a way to set fighter LPCs to be available on the open market? It's part of how I'd like to set up someone like Diable to do quasi-legal market stuff without completely removing them from mil-regs.

I do still love how configurable everything is now. Great work!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.1.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on January 12, 2022, 12:38:45 PM
Damned if I do, damned if I don't  ;D

Since contraband has been gutted in the next version, and I have much better implementation for regulations I will definetly reintroduce optional shy market.

There, done.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.1.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: IonDragonX on January 12, 2022, 03:06:53 PM
Damned if I do, damned if I don't  ;D
IIRC, Alex himself mentioned that he liked some of the concept of 'shy black market'. Maybe vanilla will render that part of your mod redundant in the future. Not that I'll be holding my breath or anything.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.1.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Chronia on January 12, 2022, 03:50:41 PM
I don't mind the vanilla black market access mechanics. Depending on how you imagine the actual physical port authority it can make sense to have access to illegal goods even when you've officially registered your transponder to a docking slip. The "suspicion" mechanic and tiny reputation change is a bit of a weak deterrent though.

And on the other hand not having access at all makes sense with the more authoritarian / heavy handed sector that Starpocalypse paints. Or maybe you could just crank up the "suspicion" ramifications like you did with the repercussions of raiding colony items.

Either way I'm excited for your contraband updates (and agree that the contraband updates are a more interesting thing to focus your limited time and effort on)!

Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.1.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on January 13, 2022, 04:54:29 AM
Hello fellow pain lovers. This is what I have planned for 2.2.0:
Quote
    ## MILITARY REGULATIONS
    # Buying or selling military wares Open Market is illegal unless you are commissioned with the owner of the market.
    # Uses same logic as Military market except for:
    # - Lower stability will cause some illegal items to become legal, and
    # - Blacklist can be applied to make item or ship always legal.
    "militaryRegulation": true,
    # Suspicion level will grow even with transponder off. It is still useful to sell illegal wares.
    "transparentBlackMarket": true,
    # Setting this to 0 essentially disabled the feature. Setting this to 1 makes it behave as if the transponder was on
    # for suspicion calculations. Setting it above 1 will cause a penalty for trading with transponder off.
    "transparentBlackMarketMult": 0.5,
    # Accessing black market is only possible with transponder turned off.
    "shyBlackMarket": false,

Military contraband has been wrapped into regulation. The implementation has been totally rewritten - no longer move items between submarkets, but actually use custom submarket plugins. Fixes problem with selling illegal items / ships on Open Market.

Teaser (this IS Open Market):
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/824910699415207937/930879533819789442/unknown.png)



IIRC, Alex himself mentioned that he liked some of the concept of 'shy black market'. Maybe vanilla will render that part of your mod redundant in the future. Not that I'll be holding my breath or anything.
Citation needed.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.1.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Yunru on January 13, 2022, 05:48:56 AM
I'm not a big fan on the Open Market requiring commission.
I do, however, like it requiring a good rep with the faction.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.1.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: SpaceDrake on January 13, 2022, 07:36:25 AM
I think I'd dig that implementation if civilian-grade hulls/civilian-tagged ships were still openly available regardless of commission or rep level. Like, that's the point, civvie hulls are, even in the modern sector, comparatively cheap and easy to slap together outside of capital-size ones, and they're intended for civilian purchase. I suspect a lot of us use the mod as much for verisimilitude as we do difficulty, and it just jives with the lore better if civ-grade ships are the ones available at Honest John's Ship Dealer with no restriction. Granted, this is also what the blacklist (or really whitelist in this case (https://i.imgur.com/kcBTfAR.gif)) can be used for, but at the very least the sub-capital civilian ships should probably be on that list by default.

As always, though, the idea that anything not explicitly civilian requires a lot more hurdles to get is dead on. And low stability causes illegal things to be legal on the open market, you say. :D

Also, thank you for making shy black market an option again! I also like transparent black market idea as an option.

--

Citation needed.

Was mentioned a couple weeks ago! It also came up here in the thread, but it's been a wild couple weeks IRL:

https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=23349.msg349749#msg349749
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.1.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on January 13, 2022, 08:40:52 AM
Quote
I think I'd dig that implementation if civilian-grade hulls/civilian-tagged ships were still openly available regardless of commission or rep level. Like, that's the point, civvie hulls are, even in the modern sector, comparatively cheap and easy to slap together outside of capital-size ones, and they're intended for civilian purchase. I suspect a lot of us use the mod as much for verisimilitude as we do difficulty, and it just jives with the lore better if civ-grade ships are the ones available at Honest John's Ship Dealer with no restriction. Granted, this is also what the blacklist (or really whitelist in this case ) can be used for, but at the very least the sub-capital civilian ships should probably be on that list by default.

This is only the teaser, I haven't implemented prior logic on top of Military Market rules yes (so missing always legal and illegal lists, and missing civ-hull / civ-hint default legal rule). The release will happen somewhere next week probably.

Quote
Was mentioned a couple weeks ago! It also came up here in the thread, but it's been a wild couple weeks IRL:

Ah, so that was Sundog, not Alex. Thanks for source.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.1.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: SCC on January 13, 2022, 08:48:39 AM
What's the point of turning open market into military market in all but the name?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.1.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on January 13, 2022, 09:02:13 AM
What's the point of turning open market into military market in all but the name?

That's what the old implementation did anyway, just through manual removal of "illegal" items. Now they will still be purchasable if you met the criterial.

I'll add an option to remove them if you'd rather not see them at all (thus old behaviour).
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.1.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: SCC on January 13, 2022, 09:35:03 AM
As far as I am concerned, a market that requires a commission to get stuff is a military market.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.1.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on January 13, 2022, 09:49:33 AM
While implementation has changed, the "what you can buy" will not.

Old implementation: illegal items are moved to Military Market, at which point you need said commission
New implementation: illegal items are not purchasable, at which point you need said commission

The difference is they are now purchasable directly from Open Market, instead of going through the item juggle (remove from Open Market, insert to Military Market).

Similarly, contraband can now directly reduce illegality instead of having to do item juggling: Open Market -> Military Market -> Black Market.

But as said, I will add an option to simply remove them like in the past, so you won't notice a difference.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.1.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Chronia on January 14, 2022, 03:58:59 PM
I think your proposed contraband changes are a slightly confusing user experience. I see how it's functionally very similar to moving the items to the more restricted market, but it is visually confusing and eliminates the in-game distinction between the regular and military market. It's also not identical to moving items in the case where there is no military market (I would expect contraband in that case to be either moved to the black market or just removed entirely).

What I'd expected was that you were going to use the vanilla contraband mechanics to prevent players from selling contraband to the regular market. The way that drugs / AI cores / organs show up with a red background and don't allow the sale (but you can still sell them to the military market as part of a "buyback program").

In my (personal) perfect world, the civilian market would only show me items it's allowed to sell and I would see that red filter on all sales of weapons / military ships to it. Buying a military ship should require that I get it off a military base or the black market.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.1.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on January 15, 2022, 05:23:57 AM
After testing both, I have decided to follow Chronia's and SCC's recommendation:

Quote
    # Military regulation behaviour - true to remove illegal items and ships, false to just make them illegal.
    "militaryRegulationsRemoveIllegal": true,

So by default it will behave the same as currently. This leave me in a limbo with the contraband, as right now it will only work with the above set to false. I am honestly tired of it (it was a band aid to bad, or rather NO weapon selection, back from when Black Market was also regulated). I would like to simply remove it.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.1.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: SpaceDrake on January 15, 2022, 05:32:45 AM
I mean, ultimately it's your mod, so I say implement it how you like. Don't let us backseat the mod too hard; we're just trying to give feedback on what'd be cool to see and what felt neat in previous versions, but in the end it ought to be your vision that says what goes.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.1.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: SCC on January 15, 2022, 05:47:54 AM
just make arms dealers common as dirt, ez fix
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.1.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Chronia on January 15, 2022, 12:17:30 PM
I mean, ultimately it's your mod, so I say implement it how you like. Don't let us backseat the mod too hard; we're just trying to give feedback on what'd be cool to see and what felt neat in previous versions, but in the end it ought to be your vision that says what goes.

+1

@jaghaimo, please don't take my feedback as pressure to change your implementation, especially if it's burning you out on the idea itself! I'm just enthusiastic about how much the d-mod + contraband modules changed the tone of my last playthrough and wanted to share my thoughts :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.1.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on January 18, 2022, 02:29:47 AM
Right, Starpocalypse update is finished - enjoy! Had to do one unfortunate change:

Quote
    ## UTILITY MOD - READ THIS!
    # Traditionally, Starpocalypse has been a utility mod, meaning you can disable the mod at will without breaking
    # your save. Unfortunately, the new implementation requires additional API methods to be added in order to correctly
    # persist progress while still being a utility mod. As such, I have decided to temporarily BREAK the utility
    # aspect of the mod. To enable utility aspect of the mod, set below to true. The consequence of playing with
    # `isUtility` enabled is:
    # 1. Suspicion level will reset each time you save. Trade on black market and get suspicion level to say `extreme`,
    #    leave the market, save the game, dock and notice suspicion level dropping to `none`.
    # 2. Delayed reputation change due to legal trade will not happen if you save too early after the trade.
    # This option will be removed (and mod becomes a true utility mod again) once new API calls are released.
    # For details see: https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=23826
    "isUtility": false,

What does this mean? Only that you cannot remove this mod by default and expect your save to work. You will need to set the "isUtility" to true first, and only after saving the game with it being true, the mod can be removed.

Regarding discussion about behaviour - this is the mod for both you and me. As such, I am open to discussion, and to take direction from my userbase. In this case, I have decided to proceed with new implementation (as it is much cleaner, performant, and needs less code) but:

- Retain old behaviour for Open Market (remove illegal). Tier 0 weapons, LPCs, modspecs, and ships under 6 FP are legal.
- Open Market retains its legal/illegal CSV list (put "Hound" to make a ship always legal, put "!Cerberus" to make it always illegal).
- No items are moved between markets (performance increase, complexity decrease).
- Stability affects legality on Military Market directly (old implementation), otherwise vanilla Military Market rules are used.
- Trading with transponder off will now raise suspicion (0.5 by default, turning transponder off reduces suspicion gain by 50% instead of fully).
- Shy Black Market is still here, but is off by default.

To make the game harder, set "transparentMarketMult" to 1 or 2, and enable Shy Black Market. Pain intensifies...
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: PreConceptor on January 18, 2022, 01:44:11 PM
Would it be possible to make Shy Black Market have its own faction list not tied to regulation? Something like shyBlackMarketFaction.csv? It could have the same setup as militaryRegulationFaction by default. Personally I'd like to set it up so that indies and a couple other factions have a shy black market but no regulation.

More items in raidProtectorItem? fullerene_spool should definitely be in there imo (Hegemony, stealing food planet's space elevator, etc)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on January 19, 2022, 06:08:53 AM
Working on 2.2.1 right now, which is immediate bugfix release:

Quote
- New uninstaller mod (disable main mod, enable uninstaller, load game and then save to remove Starpocalypse).
- Add all special colony items to raid protector.
- Fix `null` in Shy Black Market description (now shows correct suspicion level).
- Fix F1 tooltip for commodities not showing regulated markets.

Shy Black Market changes will have to be deferred to 2.2.0, I really need to focus on finishing Stelnet 2.4.0! Sorry PreConceptor.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Chronia on January 19, 2022, 02:29:45 PM
Cross-mod bug report:

Industrial Evolution [2.2.h] contains ../data/starpocalypse/shipDamageSubmarket.csv (and militaryRegulationSubmarket.csv) which contains the block-list of markets:

Quote
submarket
!IndEvo_RepairStorage
!IndEvo_tempStorage
!IndEvo_ReqCenterMarket
!IndEvo_DeconstStorage
!IndEvo_EngStorage
!IndEvo_SharedStore

As far as I can tell these are formatted correctly, but in-game additional dMods are still being applied to them. I first noticed this with the repair yard, which successfully repairs the ship only for it to have a new selection of dMods when you go to pick it up. Maybe it's like those sketchy mechanic shops that cause damage so that they can charge you fix it? ;D

Anyway,  if that .csv is in the right spot for Starpocalypse to pick it up, this seems to be a bug.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on January 19, 2022, 02:36:01 PM
Hi Chronia, I have just spoken with Hartley. What has happened is that in 1.x to 2.x update those lists moved on my end. In IndEvo you want to move "data/starpocalypse/" to "settings/" and make sure the actual files has not been renamed as well (compare against "settings/" folder in Starpocalypse).

This is fixed in the upcoming 2.2.1.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Chronia on January 19, 2022, 02:50:01 PM
Awesome, thanks! I thought that might be the case, I'll shuffle things around on my end in the meantime.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: virgil_182 on January 20, 2022, 09:01:09 PM
Oops... just noticed this has already been reported, and with better detail than mine.  ;)


This is an awesome mod, I can't imagine playing without it. The universe full of ships with DMods feature gives the game and ships so much more character.

I'd like to report a minor mod incompatibility, if I may...

The Industrial Evolution mod adds repair docks that you can leave ships at and have DMods repaired over time. Unfortunately however, this mod simply adds new ones back in their place, making the feature work like a pay to get different Dmods service. Not entirely bad if you just want to get rid of a specific Dmod, but it would be nice if Starpocalypse wouldn't add new ones back to ships repaired at Industrial Evolution repair docks.

Thanks for your time, and a fantastic mod.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on January 24, 2022, 03:32:51 AM
All of the reported bugs have now been fixed. Enjoy 2.2.1 release.

Quote
- An unfortunate name change in `mod_info.json` to assure correct load order (leading space).
- Add fence cut (Black Market tariff, because you need someone to contact the underworld).
- Add all special colony items to raid protector.
- Add Industrial Evolution integration (raid protector and ship damager).
- Add various modded faction to `reputationBlacklist.csv`.
- Fix `null` in Shy Black Market description (now shows correct suspicion level).
- Fix Stellar Networks compatibility (no longer requires custom markets).
- Fix F1 tooltip for commodities not showing regulated markets.
- Add Transparent Markets - even with transponder off, suspicion will still build up, but at half speed.
- Enable Shy Black Market by default.
- Move `settings` to `data/starpocalypse` for easier cross-mod compatibility.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jarolegon on January 24, 2022, 07:40:24 AM
This looks and sounds like an amazing mod, however after installing latest version i've noticed weapon restrictions don't work on open market. Almost everybody sell all common weapons and certain fighters freely(like mark IX autocannon, hellbore cannon, hammer barrage, thumper and talons with broadswords). However heavy armaments and marines are correctly unavailable. The game is updated to the latest version and no other mods are installed. Was this intended change or is there some issue on my end? Here's how sindrian open market looks in my game


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on January 24, 2022, 07:49:12 AM
All tier 0 (so weakest) weapons are now legal. So are tier 0 modspecs and <= 5 FP combat ships. Yes, this is an intentional change to let the player arm themselves with basics. But perhaps for veteran Staprocalypse players this might be too easy...

I will make it configurable, and then change tier 0 to be illegal again (so you need to find some basic gear in Military Market).

Edit: This new config will look like this (consider 2.2.1 to be easy mode):
Quote
    # Weapon and modspec tier, and combat ship FP at which they become illegal.
    "regulationMinIllegalTier": 0, # easy mode: 1
    "regulationMinIllegalFP": 0, # easy mode: 5
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jarolegon on January 24, 2022, 08:28:49 AM
Thank you for the quick response! I personally like this mod more for the sense of progression it offers rather than for adherence to lore and realistic markets. I wouldn't mind if some single missiles, single autocannons, IR lasers and low grade fighters like talons and mining pods were on the open market, while restricting high grade stuff like hephaestus gun, plasma cannon and longbow bomber to military markets exclusively(not available on black markets at all). It would mean that player could instantly dive in combat, and it would give him goals to achieve if he wants to get his hands on better stuff. So, weak weapons are available from the get go, for mid grade one has to sneak or find planets with free market, and for high grade you either get a commission or create a colony with heavy industry.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on January 24, 2022, 08:45:35 AM
Pretty much, yeah, that was my goal except just a bit more drastic:

- Open Market - nothing by default really (easy mode = tier0 + <= 5 FP so like Military Market with no commission)
- Military Market - tier0 + <= 5 FP if no commission, up to tier 2 and up to Cruisers if commission (no tier3); currently you do find tier3 and capitals
- Black Market - no tier3 weapons (Alex already changed it, so you can't get Capitals from Black Market; requires sneaking in by default

What I am missing is removing tier3 and capitals from Military Market.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: starman13 on January 24, 2022, 05:45:41 PM
Thanks for the big update.

Reporting a few things I noticed when I loaded the new version.

With the newest changes to the black market, suspicion seems to get reset every time I exit the planet and reenter.

Also, the black market description says there's no tariffs and that transactions with the transponder off will not attract attention, but with the default mod settings this is no longer true.

Looking through the code, am I right in understanding that the prices and stability levels in militaryRegulationStability.csv no longer determine what is available/removed from the open and black markets?


Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Yunru on January 24, 2022, 07:15:19 PM
- An unfortunate name change in `mod_info.json` to assure correct load order (leading space).
Welcome to the weird side.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on January 25, 2022, 01:56:32 AM
With the newest changes to the black market, suspicion seems to get reset every time I exit the planet and reenter.

Investigating. Will update once I know more.
Found the issue, thank you for reporting. Fixed for 2.2.2.

Also, the black market description says there's no tariffs and that transactions with the transponder off will not attract attention, but with the default mod settings this is no longer true.

Ah, that's my oversight. Thanks, will be fixed in 2.2.2.

Looking through the code, am I right in understanding that the prices and stability levels in militaryRegulationStability.csv no longer determine what is available/removed from the open and black markets?

Correct. The items are no longer moved between markets. Contraband is now directly letting some items requiring commission / higher rep to be purchasable from Military Market.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: starman13 on January 27, 2022, 06:57:25 AM
All my weapons are now illegal and cannot be sold, but drugs are tradable on the regulated open market  ;D
This was on a Persean League not free port market where they should be illegal.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on January 27, 2022, 07:09:15 AM
All my weapons are now illegal and cannot be sold, but drugs are tradable on the regulated open market  ;D
This was on a Persean League not free port market where they should be illegal.

Thank you for the report. Fixed for the upcoming 2.2.2.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: lyravega on January 27, 2022, 09:07:50 AM
Hey Jaghaimo! There's a bar event where you get to order ships and stuff for about 2x the original price. These ships are pristine :D I don't know what affects the results, or if they're always pristine, but thought I'd mention it since you want everyone to fly in junks =)

Speaking of this bar event, you can grab any kind of weapons through these. But they're more of a 'personal' black market, so it doesn't matter much I think - by the time you can order these highly priced stuff, you probably have some loot from the [REDACTED] and stuff anyway.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.2 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on January 31, 2022, 05:53:53 AM
Yeah, there's not much I can do regarding those bar missions in the short run. The long run is not worth my effort (and would be an ugly solution on top). Also, contrary to my efforts, this mod's aim is not to remove pristine ships from the game - just make their acquisition much harder.

Anyway, 2.2.2 is out! Mostly bugfix version with tiny addition.

Quote
- Fix Black Market suspicion resetting at each dock.
- Fix incorrect Black Market description (was not matching its new behaviour).
- Fix illegal commodities (usually drugs and organs) always being legal on Open Market.
- Add missing HMI factions to reputation change blacklist (`mess` and `mess_remnants`).
- Add support for negation in legal list (`item` will be always legal and `!item` will be always illegal).
- New configuration: max tier and fleet points at which items and combat ships are considered legal.
- New feature: remove endgame ships (capitals) and cargo (tier3) from Military Markets.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.2 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Oni on February 03, 2022, 08:48:30 AM
...
- New feature: remove endgame ships (capitals) and cargo (tier3) from Military Markets.
...
Hmm... is there a way to make big ships (Endgame Tier 3's, Battlecruisers, etc), only rarer instead of removed entirely?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.2 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on February 03, 2022, 11:38:09 AM
I can change that to be a probability (of removal) based. So 0 will be remove all, 1 will be leave as is, and anything in between a roll of dice.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.2 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Goumindong on February 03, 2022, 04:20:43 PM
So this seems to be the mod that is the most... in depth in terms of changes of a style i was thinking of and i was wondering if i could pick your brain.

My idea was to take the current core planets that are path/pirate and turn them into independent planets. But tie their markets in terms of illegal goods/access, to pirate/path reputation and maintain their integration into the pirate economy. That is. Kanta's den would no longer be a pirate world it would be a pirate FRONT world. Its production and supplies could still be tied to pirate fleets but it would no longer be flattened by supply reductions that occur because pirate trade fleets get killed by everyone and independent trade fleets that would smuggle to it get killed by pirates. A new player would not know Kanta's den was a pirate front world unless they ended up getting directed there by a friendly pirate or did trade there and got a pirate reputation bonus as a result.

The goal here would be to make being a pirate/pather slightly easier in terms of supplying because you can go to an independent world and find some sympathetic people there willing to sell you fuel and supplies. But make it harder in general to generate consistent trade profits because there are now fewer worlds with obvious and predictable trade deficits in easily acquirable goods. This would also ensure that the pirate factions were slightly better supplied and might generally make them stronger for the non-pirate player.

I also wanted to make selling stolen goods more difficult. Every primary type of non-contraband good (I.E. domestic goods but not drugs or ship hulls) would have a duplicate "stolen" or "undocumented" version of it. These would be produced by the military structures on pirate stations [supply would increase or decrease based on whether or not their raids were successful] and demanded in small amounts in black markets on all worlds that normally demanded that good. When you destroyed a convoy carrying those goods you would receive the "stolen" version instead. Prices would be capped such that a theoretical no arbitrage condition was in effect even though you could not turn player owned legitimate goods into stolen goods. That is, no one on a world would be willing to buy stolen goods for more than the pre-tariff price players would normally sell to a world at. Stolen goods that were sold would disappear like the first blueprint of a specific type you sell do and would not be purchasable by the player except from pirate stations.

Pirate market structures which would be present and hidden[to the player so that they cannot just look up the pirate markets] on certain pirate front worlds (like Kanta's Den) would demand stolen goods and produce the same amount of legitimate goods, acting as the fence between pirate raids and the legitimate economy. . If a player built a pirate market they would steadily lose reputation with major factions(except those you had a commission with or independents if you didn't have a commission) until they hit distrusted[that is, it would not take a lot to push them over the edge to declaring you a a filthy pirate, but they cannot prove it] but steadily gain reputation with pirates until they hit friendly. (Upgrading with story points and ai cores would never increase supply over demand but could increase both at the same time as well as impart upkeep reductions or a reduction in the major faction reputation cap to neutral). Removing a pirate market would make pirates immediately hostile to prevent players from building a pirate market to build pirate rep then destroying it when it was full and so to have colonies they don't have to babysit from pirate raids while being able to gain reputation buffers with the major factions.


Is this sort of thing possible. How difficult would it be to do it? (if you wanted to do this yourself i would not stop you in the slightest, i think it does fit in with the theme of your mod, but i don't want to imply that these are things i think your mod should do unless you want to do it)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.2 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: StrikeEcho on February 07, 2022, 04:54:54 AM
So it seems that this mods submarkets conflict with Nex Alliances allowing you to buy at military markets of factions you have alliances with but are not commissioned with.

Any chance of fixing this?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.2 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on February 07, 2022, 06:46:01 AM
It's doable, but due to technical limitations, there will now be two versions of the mod from then on - a vanilla one, and a Nexerelin compatible one.

Are you on Discord by any chance? Would like you to test this new version before I release it.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.2 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: StrikeEcho on February 07, 2022, 07:24:25 AM
It's doable, but due to technical limitations, there will now be two versions of the mod from then on - a vanilla one, and a Nexerelin compatible one.

Are you on Discord by any chance? Would like you to test this new version before I release it.
Cool, yeah I'm on Discord, EchoDeltaXIV, but I don't really know what you mean by testing?
Just loading up the prerelease and seeing if anything breaks?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.3 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on February 15, 2022, 07:26:28 AM
A small bugfix version is out. Enjoy.

Quote
- Fix Nexerlin alliance state (commission check in Military Market).
- Fix game crash in ship damager when minDmods is equal maxDmods.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.3 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: CapitanIncognito on February 18, 2022, 03:11:15 PM
I like the idea of this mod, but I feel like I get most of my capitals/cruisers by finding derelicts. Do you know if there's any mod that reduces the number of large derelicts available and/or makes it so they only show up a certain distance from the core? I feel like it would make sense for nearby systems to have been largely picked clean of anything good by scavengers.

The main thing I'm trying to solve is the issue that I don't seem to have a mid-game in any of my playthroughs. It's always accumulate a few destroyers and maybe 1 cruiser, then stumble upon a derelict Legion and suddenly experience a massive power jump.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.3 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Yunru on February 19, 2022, 01:01:22 PM
If you could honour this one with my humble request, how do you switch between your two market scripts without requiring two separate CSVs?

I wish to imitate it so I can have a Faction use a custom market of their own and still maintain compatibility.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.3 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: SpartanXZero on February 20, 2022, 01:53:56 AM
I'm enjoying the scarcity that this mod offers. I've done my own little sub edits to the dials for fine tune adjustments to cushion it a bit.

I was curious regarding how Black Markets handle ships and dmods?
Is it the same ratio of % for d-mods that the open market/faction yards offer?

If it is, is it possible to create a separate calculation for BM's for condition of ships for sale?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.3 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: SpaceDrake on February 20, 2022, 08:16:06 PM
So it's been a bit since I posted, and I have one final query: can shy_black_market be set up as a separate descriptor in submarkets.csv in the current version (to give a shy'd out BM its own description) like it could in 2.0, or is that functionality gone?

Otherwise... it's all what I hoped it could be. Thank you for working so hard on this, Jaghaimo; I know putting up with all the requests must have been a pain. (https://i.imgur.com/kcBTfAR.gif) I'm looking forward to what other ideas or mods you have in store!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.3 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on February 25, 2022, 12:45:42 AM
If you could honour this one with my humble request, how do you switch between your two market scripts without requiring two separate CSVs?

I wish to imitate it so I can have a Faction use a custom market of their own and still maintain compatibility.

Have a look how I got optional Nexerelin compatibility done in RegulatedMilitaryMarket: https://github.com/jaghaimo/starpocalypse/blob/master/src/starpocalypse/submarket/RegulatedMilitaryMarket.java#L74

This means you need to include starpocalypse.jar during compilation, but it is not needed during runtime. Basically, you want to use composition and do something like this:

Code
public class YunruMarket extends BaseSubmarketPlugin {

    private BaseSubmarketPlugin starpocalypsePlugin;

    public void init(SubmarketAPI submarket) {
super.init(submarket);
  if (Global.getSettings().getModManager().isModEnabled("starpocalypse")) {
              /* RegulatedOpenMarket will be loaded only on first use, since Starpocalypse is loaded we can do this */
              starpocalypsePlugin = new RegulatedOpenMarket();
              starpocalypsePlugin.init(submarket);
        }
    }

    /* now in your code, for each functionality you want to support */
    @Override
    public void updateCargoPrePlayerInteraction() {
        if (starpocalypsePlugin != null) {
           starpocalypsePlugin.updateCargoPrePlayerInteraction();
        } else { /* in some cases you want this to be else, in some you want it to always run after (or before) Starpocalypse's implementation
           /* either your code or base implementation, or a mix? */
           super.updateCargoPrePlayerInteraction();
        }
    }
}
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.3 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on February 25, 2022, 12:52:48 AM
I was curious regarding how Black Markets handle ships and dmods?
Is it the same ratio of % for d-mods that the open market/faction yards offer?

If it is, is it possible to create a separate calculation for BM's for condition of ships for sale?

It handles the ships in the same way as Open Market. There is one min-max value of d-mods, and any pristine ship that has no d-mods will have a random number of them added.

What do you mean by separate calculation? Each submarket to have own min and max number of d-mods? If so, yes - it is possible. I will be adding an option to have min set to 0 as well in the next version.


So it's been a bit since I posted, and I have one final query: can shy_black_market be set up as a separate descriptor in submarkets.csv in the current version (to give a shy'd out BM its own description) like it could in 2.0, or is that functionality gone?

It is possible. What type of description would you like? As a matter of fact, the behaviour should not have changed since 2.0 (custom description, with extra paragraph if shy black market is on). What are you seeing, and what were you expecting to see?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.3 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Vundaex on February 28, 2022, 11:57:54 AM
I love the idea of this mod, but how compatible is it with other mods adding new content? (you probably already answered this question many times before so I apologize)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.3 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on March 01, 2022, 06:49:46 AM
This mod replaces vanilla implementations of Open, Black, and Military markets. Same as Nexerelin. It implements Nexerelin functionality for Military Market (commission check for alliances), but DOES NOT implement optional Nexerelin functionality of doubling number of weapons and LPCs (because the point of this mod is to make it scarce in the first place). As far as I know, Nexerelin is the only mod that replaces vanilla markets. You may consider this mod compatible.

From coding point of view it is compatible with all mods. From a gameplay point of view, it might cause some odd situations. For example, imagine a mod that adds a combat ship that can only be purchased at Open Market, never is part of any fleet, and does not show up as derelicts anywhere... With Military Regulations, that ship will now never be purchasable from Open Market, thus not acquirable. You may consider this mod incompatible.

So you really need to understand what the mods you play with do, and whether this mod will break them, and if yes, is it within expectations and if it is acceptable.

Hope that helps :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.3 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Yunru on March 01, 2022, 07:16:10 AM
If you could honour this one with my humble request, how do you switch between your two market scripts without requiring two separate CSVs?

I wish to imitate it so I can have a Faction use a custom market of their own and still maintain compatibility.

Have a look how I got optional Nexerelin compatibility done in RegulatedMilitaryMarket: https://github.com/jaghaimo/starpocalypse/blob/master/src/starpocalypse/submarket/RegulatedMilitaryMarket.java#L74

This means you need to include starpocalypse.jar during compilation, but it is not needed during runtime. Basically, you want to use composition and do something like this:

Code
public class YunruMarket extends BaseSubmarketPlugin {

    private BaseSubmarketPlugin starpocalypsePlugin;

    public void init(SubmarketAPI submarket) {
super.init(submarket);
  if (Global.getSettings().getModManager().isModEnabled("starpocalypse")) {
              /* RegulatedOpenMarket will be loaded only on first use, since Starpocalypse is loaded we can do this */
              starpocalypsePlugin = new RegulatedOpenMarket();
              starpocalypsePlugin.init(submarket);
        }
    }

    /* now in your code, for each functionality you want to support */
    @Override
    public void updateCargoPrePlayerInteraction() {
        if (starpocalypsePlugin != null) {
           starpocalypsePlugin.updateCargoPrePlayerInteraction();
        } else { /* in some cases you want this to be else, in some you want it to always run after (or before) Starpocalypse's implementation
           /* either your code or base implementation, or a mix? */
           super.updateCargoPrePlayerInteraction();
        }
    }
}
So would I be correct in saying this should work to let a replacement market that allows Blueprints to be learned from Pirate Military markets to also have all Starpocalypse features?
Code
package data.scripts.markets;

import com.fs.starfarer.api.Global;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.campaign.CargoAPI;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.campaign.CargoStackAPI;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.campaign.FactionAPI;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.campaign.PlayerMarketTransaction;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.campaign.SpecialItemPlugin;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.campaign.econ.SubmarketAPI;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.campaign.impl.items.BlueprintProviderItem;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.DelayedBlueprintLearnScript;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.ids.Factions;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.submarkets.BaseSubmarketPlugin;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.submarkets.MilitarySubmarketPlugin;

import starpocalypse.submarket.RegulatedMilitaryMarket;

public class YunruLearningMilitaryMarket extends MilitarySubmarketPlugin {
   
private BaseSubmarketPlugin starpocalypsePlugin;

    public void init(SubmarketAPI submarket) {
super.init(submarket);
  if (Global.getSettings().getModManager().isModEnabled("starpocalypse")) {
              /* RegulatedOpenMarket will be loaded only on first use, since Starpocalypse is loaded we can do this */
              starpocalypsePlugin = new RegulatedMilitaryMarket();
              starpocalypsePlugin.init(submarket);
        }
    }

@Override
    public void updateCargoPrePlayerInteraction() {
        if (starpocalypsePlugin != null) {
           starpocalypsePlugin.updateCargoPrePlayerInteraction();
}
super.updateCargoPrePlayerInteraction();
}

    @Override
public void reportPlayerMarketTransaction(PlayerMarketTransaction transaction) {
super.reportPlayerMarketTransaction(transaction);

FactionAPI faction = submarket.getFaction();
if (faction.getId() == Factions.PIRATES) delayedLearnBlueprintsFromTransaction(faction, getCargo(), transaction, 60f + 60 * (float) Math.random());
}

public static void delayedLearnBlueprintsFromTransaction(FactionAPI faction, CargoAPI cargo, PlayerMarketTransaction transaction) {
delayedLearnBlueprintsFromTransaction(faction, cargo, transaction, 60f + 60 * (float) Math.random());
}
public static void delayedLearnBlueprintsFromTransaction(FactionAPI faction, CargoAPI cargo, PlayerMarketTransaction transaction, float daysDelay) {
DelayedBlueprintLearnScript script = new DelayedBlueprintLearnScript(faction.getId(), daysDelay);
for (CargoStackAPI stack : transaction.getSold().getStacksCopy()) {
SpecialItemPlugin plugin = stack.getPlugin();
if (plugin instanceof BlueprintProviderItem) {
BlueprintProviderItem bpi = (BlueprintProviderItem) plugin;

boolean learnedSomething = false;
if (bpi.getProvidedFighters() != null) {
for (String id : bpi.getProvidedFighters()) {
if (faction.knowsFighter(id)) continue;
script.getFighters().add(id);
learnedSomething = true;
}
}
if (bpi.getProvidedWeapons() != null) {
for (String id : bpi.getProvidedWeapons()) {
if (faction.knowsWeapon(id)) continue;
script.getWeapons().add(id);
learnedSomething = true;
}
}
if (bpi.getProvidedShips() != null) {
for (String id : bpi.getProvidedShips()) {
if (faction.knowsShip(id)) continue;
script.getShips().add(id);
learnedSomething = true;
}
}
if (bpi.getProvidedIndustries() != null) {
for (String id : bpi.getProvidedIndustries()) {
if (faction.knowsIndustry(id)) continue;
script.getIndustries().add(id);
learnedSomething = true;
}
}

if (learnedSomething) {
cargo.removeItems(stack.getType(), stack.getData(), 1);
}
}
}

if (!script.getFighters().isEmpty() || !script.getWeapons().isEmpty() ||
!script.getShips().isEmpty() || !script.getIndustries().isEmpty()) {
Global.getSector().addScript(script);
cargo.sort();
}
}

}
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.3 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Vundaex on March 01, 2022, 11:38:29 AM
This mod replaces vanilla implementations of Open, Black, and Military markets. Same as Nexerelin. It implements Nexerelin functionality for Military Market (commission check for alliances), but DOES NOT implement optional Nexerelin functionality of doubling number of weapons and LPCs (because the point of this mod is to make it scarce in the first place). As far as I know, Nexerelin is the only mod that replaces vanilla markets. You may consider this mod compatible.

From coding point of view it is compatible with all mods. From a gameplay point of view, it might cause some odd situations. For example, imagine a mod that adds a combat ship that can only be purchased at Open Market, never is part of any fleet, and does not show up as derelicts anywhere... With Military Regulations, that ship will now never be purchasable from Open Market, thus not acquirable. You may consider this mod incompatible.

So you really need to understand what the mods you play with do, and whether this mod will break them, and if yes, is it within expectations and if it is acceptable.

Hope that helps :)

Yes that helps, thanks buddy!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.3 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: SpaceDrake on March 01, 2022, 02:49:51 PM
It is possible. What type of description would you like? As a matter of fact, the behaviour should not have changed since 2.0 (custom description, with extra paragraph if shy black market is on).

Oh, no, this is literally all I was wondering, whether or not the shy_black_market descriptor tag from 2.0 would actually still work in 2.2+ and if anything needed to be changed about which plugin it references or whatnot after the description.

Thank you!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.3 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on April 20, 2022, 02:13:51 AM
Progress update. A new (and probably last one this year, excluding bugfixes) version of Starpocalypse will be out this or next week. I need to take a break from Starpocalypse in order to find a vision for this mod. For those that missed the memo - this started as a joke mod (I wanted to see the Sector full of d-mods and to make weapons scarce) but due to the somewhat warm welcome I became invested in it. Almost a year later, the mod is all over the place. So I need to sit down and rethink what I want this mod to be. In the meantime, I have a huge backlog of Stelnet features to catch up on, too.

Upcoming 2.3.0 (all features are on by default, as usual can be disabled):
Code
    # Do not drop blueprint packages. Player will have to collect blueprints one by one.
    "blueprintPackageNoDrop": true,

    # Number of s-mods available to player (without skill).
    "maximumPermaMods": 0, # easy mode: 1, vanilla: 2

    # Remove all ships from salvageable debris fields and always require a story point to recover a ship (both derelict
    # ships found across the sector, and post battle recoveries).
    "stingyRecoveries": true,

Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.3 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Justinkid on April 23, 2022, 10:44:46 AM
This mod is fantastic. I cannot play without it now.

Just one thing. Some bar missions allow you to acquire pristine ships, specifically, the ones where an officer sells you a ship, and where a pirate steals one for you if you provide x# of marines.

Those missions seem a little out of place in the context of this mod they are a relatively easy source of pristine ships... I was wondering if you have plans to make those ships d-modded as well?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.3 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Zaros426 on April 23, 2022, 01:21:27 PM
Big fan of this mod, it makes the game much more interesting, especially the black market requiring transponder off.
I really appreciate the aspect of a harder game, it gave starsector a second life for me.

Thanks for making it!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on April 25, 2022, 02:32:15 AM
New pain, erm... functionality has been released. Another slew of cursed ideas - on by default, can disable in settings.

Quote
- Remove blueprint packages from drop table - need to collect blueprints one by one.
- Make all recoveries require a story point (your own lost ships included). Also remove ships from debris field salvage.
- Change default number of s-mods available to the player to 0. Require a skill to be able to add one s-mod.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Kasimir on April 25, 2022, 02:17:18 PM
Quote
- Remove blueprint packages from drop table - need to collect blueprints one by one.
- Make all recoveries require a story point (your own lost ships included). Also remove ships from debris field salvage.
- Change default number of s-mods available to the player to 0. Require a skill to be able to add one s-mod.

Going to stick with 2.2.3 - this is overkill.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Axetongler on April 25, 2022, 02:40:27 PM
Um, blueprint package is not much of a problem and s-mods might be same too but practically disabling recovery removes bunch of skill effects and quirk of certain ships (mostly rugged construction one).
Feels little too much for me, but then I can just disable the feature so...
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Fantastic Chimni on April 25, 2022, 06:24:16 PM
Same.. New update is WAYYY too far into the "Not fun to play" territory.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on April 26, 2022, 02:25:42 AM
Rugged construction / reinforced bulkheads / skills make it so that the ship is (almost) always recoverable. It most likely will be in a non-story point pool, but it COULD end it (in vanilla) in a story point pool too. I just "fix" it, so it's always in a story-point pool.

You can always disable it. The proper fix to "stumbled across a bunch of destroyers / a great cruiser / a capital in a first X-months and became too powerful too quickly" scenario would be to gate recoveries behind date milestones - something I will do one day.

To put it in a context, version 2.6.0 one day will do (more or less, an idea right now) an "adaptative recoveries":
Quote
All ships found during exploration require a story point to recover. Always.
No changes to story point requirements of own recovered ships. Always.

Year 306 - cruisers and capitals are not recoverable post-combat (still can be salvaged from derelicts during exploration). Enemy destroyers always require a story point, frigates depends on vanilla RNG.

Year 307 - capitals are not recoverable post-combat (still can be salvaged from derelicts during exploration). Enemy cruisers always require a story point, destroyers and frigates depend on vanilla RNG.

Year 308 and beyond - all ships are recoverable post-combat. Enemy capitals always require a story point, cruisers and below depend on vanilla RNG.

The option to enable "stingy recoveries" will be there too (adaptative will become the new default, stingy when enabled will replace adaptative).
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Kasimir on April 26, 2022, 08:39:09 AM
Rugged construction / reinforced bulkheads / skills make it so that the ship is (almost) always recoverable. It most likely will be in a non-story point pool, but it COULD end it (in vanilla) in a story point pool too. I just "fix" it, so it's always in a story-point pool.

You can always disable it. The proper fix to "stumbled across a bunch of destroyers / a great cruiser / a capital in a first X-months and became too powerful too quickly" scenario would be to gate recoveries behind date milestones - something I will do one day.

The proper solution to the "capital in fist X-months" problem is to re-design the supply, support and repair system to be more realistic.

When a Faction owns a Ship, they own the Blueprint and can print new parts / ships using a Forge (or Nanoforge) which means they have a direct supply line for parts. When a Non-Faction owns a Ship, where are they getting the parts? On a market with high shortages and volatile prices on bottleneck components.

- Repairing a capital-ship above a certain % requires sacrificing another ship of the same type (or having a market shipyard with a blueprint)
- Repairing a capital-ship above a certain % requires parking it in a Faction Shipyard
- Maintenance costs on owning a capital ship without a market+blueprint are much higher.
- Faction Mercenaries get partially covered for Faction's standard fleet capital ships

Make the supply costs of repairs in space much much higher, and damage above 75% hull resulting in D-mods.
Make the costs of high-tech ships even higher with the same system.

These are the things that can bring some realism and push people to spend more time with more common ships.
This will promote keeping capital ship ownership to a time where you have a colony with blueprints and supply lines.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Axetongler on April 26, 2022, 02:20:58 PM
Rugged construction / reinforced bulkheads / skills make it so that the ship is (almost) always recoverable. It most likely will be in a non-story point pool, but it COULD end it (in vanilla) in a story point pool too. I just "fix" it, so it's always in a story-point pool.

You can always disable it. The proper fix to "stumbled across a bunch of destroyers / a great cruiser / a capital in a first X-months and became too powerful too quickly" scenario would be to gate recoveries behind date milestones - something I will do one day.

To put it in a context, version 2.6.0 one day will do (more or less, an idea right now) an "adaptative recoveries":
Quote
All ships found during exploration require a story point to recover. Always.
No changes to story point requirements of own recovered ships. Always.

Year 306 - cruisers and capitals are not recoverable post-combat (still can be salvaged from derelicts during exploration). Enemy destroyers always require a story point, frigates depends on vanilla RNG.

Year 307 - capitals are not recoverable post-combat (still can be salvaged from derelicts during exploration). Enemy cruisers always require a story point, destroyers and frigates depend on vanilla RNG.

Year 308 and beyond - all ships are recoverable post-combat. Enemy capitals always require a story point, cruisers and below depend on vanilla RNG.

The option to enable "stingy recoveries" will be there too (adaptative will become the new default, stingy when enabled will replace adaptative).
Either way I don't see much of practical difference as those ships are basically meant to be expendable/cheap and it disables that, guess I'm gonna just disable this feature till adaptative came...
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Letsparty on April 27, 2022, 11:45:58 AM
Setting maximum s-mods is broken in settings.
For example restoring vanilla behavior.

# Number of s-mods available to player (without skill).
    "maximumPermaMods": 2, # easy mode: 1, vanilla: 2

code checks for maxPermaMods
change maximumPermaMods to maxPermaMods to get it working

 # Number of s-mods available to player (without skill).
    "maxPermaMods": 2, # easy mode: 1, vanilla: 2
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Oni on April 27, 2022, 12:57:36 PM
....
The proper solution to the "capital in fist X-months" problem is to re-design the supply, support and repair system to be more realistic.

When a Faction owns a Ship, they own the Blueprint and can print new parts / ships using a Forge (or Nanoforge) which means they have a direct supply line for parts. When a Non-Faction owns a Ship, where are they getting the parts? On a market with high shortages and volatile prices on bottleneck components.

- Repairing a capital-ship above a certain % requires sacrificing another ship of the same type (or having a market shipyard with a blueprint)
- Repairing a capital-ship above a certain % requires parking it in a Faction Shipyard
- Maintenance costs on owning a capital ship without a market+blueprint are much higher.
- Faction Mercenaries get partially covered for Faction's standard fleet capital ships

Make the supply costs of repairs in space much much higher, and damage above 75% hull resulting in D-mods.
Make the costs of high-tech ships even higher with the same system.

These are the things that can bring some realism and push people to spend more time with more common ships.
This will promote keeping capital ship ownership to a time where you have a colony with blueprints and supply lines.

So, you mean maintenance/repair costs for ships you don't have the blueprints for is increased?  ???

Interesting... it'd certainly encourage people to explore for more blueprints or when joining a faction to use that factions ships (just have it so if you're commissioned by a faction, or in an alliance with them if using Nexerelin, that you can use their blueprints as well as your own for maintenance but not construction). If the supply penalty is severe enough then commissioning might be the only practical way to have capital ships before getting a colony of your own.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.0 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on April 28, 2022, 05:30:42 AM
Setting maximum s-mods is broken in settings.
For example restoring vanilla behavior.

# Number of s-mods available to player (without skill).
    "maximumPermaMods": 2, # easy mode: 1, vanilla: 2

code checks for maxPermaMods
change maximumPermaMods to maxPermaMods to get it working

 # Number of s-mods available to player (without skill).
    "maxPermaMods": 2, # easy mode: 1, vanilla: 2

Thanks, fixed and reissued as 2.3.1. People may just edit this in the text file as well instead of redownloading.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: AppleMarineXX on April 28, 2022, 02:03:49 PM
I remember one of the earliest Starpocalypse builds entirely removed military ships and weapons from all markets, regardless of black markets, colony stability, etc - the only way to get them would be through friendly military markets.

Is it possible to bring that back as an optional setting? I enjoyed romping around the sector using only the pittances I could pick up from space debris.

Call it 'super-stingy markets' or something.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.2.3 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: IonDragonX on April 30, 2022, 09:57:46 PM
Progress update. A new (and probably last one this year, excluding bugfixes) version of Starpocalypse will be out this or next week. I need to take a break from Starpocalypse in order to find a vision for this mod. For those that missed the memo - this started as a joke mod (I wanted to see the Sector full of d-mods and to make weapons scarce) but due to the somewhat warm welcome I became invested in it. Almost a year later, the mod is all over the place. So I need to sit down and rethink what I want this mod to be.
Honestly, I think you are doing a great job on all your mods. You found so many methods to give players to customize their experience. They're awesome!
As for Starpocalypse, I think the mod's increased scarcity is definitely necessary in the modiverse. It reminds me of post-apocalyptic fantasy, where all materials and resources are prized. With this mod, committing to a single faction becomes more important and I feel the vanilla game makes light of allowing non-commissioned rouges to purchase real weapons of war. They would not simply allow you to be scanned & have your contraband confiscated... they would execute you as a traitor.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: eidolad on May 03, 2022, 12:12:28 AM
I really really like this mod, especially the .json customization.  It's pretty much required now in my mod list. 

Starpocalypse with D-mods galore and limited markets lets me create a much more "ragged frontier (aka Firefly)" experience as a baseline, and is a great companion mod with Ruthless Sector which I value for the extra danger and far less free money, tweakable via yet another useful .json.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: JenkoRun on May 19, 2022, 11:27:27 AM
I really really like this mod, especially the .json customization.  It's pretty much required now in my mod list. 

Starpocalypse with D-mods galore and limited markets lets me create a much more "ragged frontier (aka Firefly)" experience as a baseline, and is a great companion mod with Ruthless Sector which I value for the extra danger and far less free money, tweakable via yet another useful .json.

I'm thinking about playing with both but I'm worried about making it to difficult to play, do you have any specific tweak recommendations for either of them? Cheers.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Hansag on May 21, 2022, 05:13:26 AM
So this is what disabled the ability to add S-mods (that was a bit extreme). Well, easy to fix in starpocalypse.json with Notepad++
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: ChaosRF on June 26, 2022, 02:11:10 PM
Thanks for the mod and opportunity to start modding, I modified the code for personal use to destroy any debris\derelict wrecks that fly over the map to prevent bottomfeeding from faction wars. So getting a capital is only posssible if it was actually fought.
Further modification I'm dreaming to use is an ability to disable "survey missions" or make them a bar event and only when commissioned.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Inventor Raccoon on July 16, 2022, 07:45:29 PM
I've had this mod on for a couple playthroughs and have been enjoying the rustbucket fleet and stingy markets (good work on that! I like the mod even if I'm about to get a little annoyed), and initially liked the idea of stingy recoveries until I realised I'd gotten to the midgame and completely failed to find a single incident of unopened sleeper pods or other similar special salvage events.

... and so I checked Github to discover that the mod runs a constant script that purges all special salvage data from salvagable entities (and debris fields) in the player's current location, not just the ship-is-recoverable salvage data.

I feel this should be pretty clearly signposted if it's an intentional difficulty change because it's not mentioned anywhere and I went in with the assumption it would only touch the vanilla "ship is recoverable" salvage special. It also probably should be changed because it appears fairly aggressive and could easily break mods or even vanilla (I haven't checked but iirc there's an issue on Github about it breaking the Hamatsu interaction)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Chryvrius on July 29, 2022, 03:31:40 PM
I've had this mod on for a couple playthroughs and have been enjoying the rustbucket fleet and stingy markets (good work on that! I like the mod even if I'm about to get a little annoyed), and initially liked the idea of stingy recoveries until I realised I'd gotten to the midgame and completely failed to find a single incident of unopened sleeper pods or other similar special salvage events.

... and so I checked Github to discover that the mod runs a constant script that purges all special salvage data from salvagable entities (and debris fields) in the player's current location, not just the ship-is-recoverable salvage data.

I feel this should be pretty clearly signposted if it's an intentional difficulty change because it's not mentioned anywhere and I went in with the assumption it would only touch the vanilla "ship is recoverable" salvage special. It also probably should be changed because it appears fairly aggressive and could easily break mods or even vanilla (I haven't checked but iirc there's an issue on Github about it breaking the Hamatsu interaction)

Dang! I was just about to pick this up and run a new game with it too. Too afraid of having things irreparably break = (

Late late edit:
Realized you can toggle off stingy salvage in the configs. Though, I would have liked to use it.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: meowpeow on July 30, 2022, 08:22:49 PM
I like this mod.

I want to mention that during mid-lategame I have many frigates from shops, and few capitals from derelicts, but almost none of cruisers

So I need to buy them from those bar TriPod traders or wait till I get heavy industry at colonies.

This way gameplay is much more interesting, because you need to have colonies now so you could fight high level fleets of Hegemony/Remnants and bounties (or you losing too much frigates, even capitals)

Cheers
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.1 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: ApolloStarsector on August 03, 2022, 03:27:37 AM
Love the mod. In particular, I like stingy recoveries ("Remove all ships from salvageable debris fields and always require a story point to recover a ship...").

Suggestion: also include an option to remove all capitals floating in the middle of nowhere ready to be taken, including XIV legions. I know, I'm sick.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.2 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on September 09, 2022, 02:21:59 AM
Long overdue bugfix update: https://github.com/jaghaimo/starpocalypse/releases/download/2.3.2/starpocalypse-2.3.2.zip

Quote
- Fix Nexerelin exploit with governed markets.
- Fix derelict pruning script not being transient.
- Update stingyRecoveries description to include cryopod officers and others.

This is most likely the last release - I am fully focusing on Stelnet and future (Public Companies) mods.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.2 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: XpanD on September 09, 2022, 09:25:32 AM
Thanks! Time to give the salvage option a shot now that that's fixed, might be fun.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.2 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: beleedad on December 11, 2022, 03:57:59 PM
Loving this mod. Thanks for making it. This is now an essential for any game. Way, way more fun to have to hunt and earn better ships n stuff.

B
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.2 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Chryvrius on March 04, 2023, 03:37:49 PM
Long overdue bugfix update: https://github.com/jaghaimo/starpocalypse/releases/download/2.3.2/starpocalypse-2.3.2.zip

Quote
- Fix Nexerelin exploit with governed markets.
- Fix derelict pruning script not being transient.
- Update stingyRecoveries description to include cryopod officers and others.

This is most likely the last release - I am fully focusing on Stelnet and future (Public Companies) mods.

Hey hey! Thank you for the bugfix. Even though this is the last update, do you have intentions to keep it up-to-date when new versions of the game release, assuming they don't horrendously break everything?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.2 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Euripides on April 16, 2023, 01:37:05 AM
748279 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: com/fs/starfarer/api/alcoholism/itemPlugins/AlcoholItemPlugin
java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: com/fs/starfarer/api/alcoholism/itemPlugins/AlcoholItemPlugin
   at java.lang.Class.forName0(Native Method)
   at java.lang.Class.forName(Class.java:348)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore.Object(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.X.getNewPluginInstance(Unknown Source)
   at starpocalypse.helper.DropTableUtils.removeBlueprintPackages(DropTableUtils.java:17)
   at starpocalypse.StarpocalypseMod.disableBlueprintDrop(StarpocalypseMod.java:125)
   at starpocalypse.StarpocalypseMod.onApplicationLoad(StarpocalypseMod.java:32)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.ResourceLoaderState.init(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: com.fs.starfarer.api.alcoholism.itemPlugins.AlcoholItemPlugin
   at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:382)
   at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:418)
   at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:351)

Not sure what's conflicting where, but this mod seems to be broken after I updated a few other mods
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.2 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on May 06, 2023, 02:06:15 AM
@Euripides
The crash happens in vanilla code. It fails on AlcoholItemPlugin cleanup which indicates a problem with abusive substance mod. I could see it happen if you updated it (or, god forbid, removed) midway of your save. Or if there was a problem with the mod in the first place.

Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.2 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on May 06, 2023, 02:09:00 AM
Hello Starpocalypse users. I bring sad news to you today - I am not planning to continue Starpocalypse support into 0.96a in the foreseeable future. As such, I will be locking this thread, and archiving the repository. Anyone is welcome to fork the code and do whatever they want with it. I might come back to this project at one point, but for now my full focus is on Stellar Networks.

Have fun with the new update :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.2 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: ApolloStarsector on May 15, 2023, 05:26:28 PM
Thanks for the fantastic mod. One of my favorites! Where should we discuss branches / unofficial updates for it?

Edit: as others on the unofficial discord have noted, it appears to work with 0.96a, provided you edit mod_info.json.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.2 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on May 17, 2023, 12:55:26 AM
@
Thanks for the fantastic mod. One of my favorites! Where should we discuss branches / unofficial updates for it?

It's really up to you. Here, new thread, Discord. Once there's a dedicated person / team that wants to take over the mantle, I'd suggest releasing 3.0.0 with official 0.96a support in a new thread. Then I can point people there in the OP, and lock this one.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.2 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: starman13 on May 19, 2023, 07:33:24 PM
I made a fork and made the updates that seemed to be needed to get this working with 0.96a.

As soon as I can figure out the github actions permissions sorted out I'll push up a release for download. A 0.96a release is now available for download.

https://github.com/frakern/starpocalypse/releases/download/3.0.0/starpocalypse-3.0.0.zip

Anyone else who wants to work with me on this, please reach out and we can discuss future plans.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.2 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Zr0Potential on May 20, 2023, 05:03:30 PM
I made a fork and made the updates that seemed to be needed to get this working with 0.96a.

As soon as I can figure out the github actions permissions sorted out I'll push up a release for download. A 0.96a release is now available for download.

https://github.com/frakern/starpocalypse/releases/download/3.0.0/starpocalypse-3.0.0.zip

Anyone else who wants to work with me on this, please reach out and we can discuss future plans.

Much appreciated
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.2 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: ApolloStarsector on May 21, 2023, 03:41:01 PM
I made a fork and made the updates that seemed to be needed to get this working with 0.96a.

As soon as I can figure out the github actions permissions sorted out I'll push up a release for download. A 0.96a release is now available for download.

https://github.com/frakern/starpocalypse/releases/download/3.0.0/starpocalypse-3.0.0.zip

Anyone else who wants to work with me on this, please reach out and we can discuss future plans.

Thank you Starman13 and Jaghaimo!!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.2 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: ApolloStarsector on May 22, 2023, 11:47:02 AM
Starman, I've tested your fork and it works quite well. Now almost all features are working well, as far as I can tell.

One thing: I don't think stingy recoveries is functioning. A story point is no longer required to recover all ships. This has persisted across saves and in multiple battles.

It seems the OP (Jaghaimo) has given his blessing to make a new post to discuss any new forks; that way, he said, he can lock this thread. No pressure whatsoever, however. I'm thankful for this fork, whatever you decide!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.2 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: starman13 on May 22, 2023, 05:02:48 PM
I've made a new thread in the Modding forum https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=26969.0
I think I need to request a moderator to move the thread to the main forum.

I will look into the bug with the salvage. I'm surprised to hear this occurred though because I tested that feature in the debugger specifically because this is a feature that I myself do not normally have turned on. I'll test again with a fresh save but could you please send me a PM with the save file so I can try to reproduce the issue?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starpocalypse 2.3.2 - more apocalyptic settings
Post by: Jaghaimo on May 23, 2023, 01:13:05 AM
Locking this thread since we have a successor. Updated OP to link to the new thread. Have fun all :)

For continuation of this mod look here: https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=26969.0