Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => Mods => Topic started by: Sutopia on May 08, 2021, 07:37:32 PM

Title: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.6.1a
Post by: Sutopia on May 08, 2021, 07:37:32 PM
Download Modern Carriers (https://github.com/Sutopia/-StarSector-0.95a-Modern-Carrier/releases/download/v1.6.1/Modern.Carrier.1.6.1a.7z)
Download Modern Carriers S Addition (https://github.com/Sutopia/-SS-MC-/releases/download/v1.2/Modern.Carrier.+1.2.0a.7z)


Important note: please remove existing Modern Carrier mod if you have installed any version up until 1.3.0 to ensure content accuracy
All hullmods now requires purchasing or salvaging


Modern Carriers V1.6

(https://icecube-us-845.icedrive.io/thumbnail?p=md7cuayNDwA0T9l9Rs1YsZtDrJT1pl1rurcQzsRGHuBI4Zv7JnyBHO0TAbyKYywHzfOwF1VsiE2wuix8pzwLThXLUknyRSj97UrdR%2BFjnPDJi5bYEoMTp30MNwV%2FEM9D&w=1280&h=1280&m=cropped)

Features v1.6
Carrier Cores
These cores significantly changes how a carrier performs. They are mutually exclusive and have rather high OP costs: choose wisely.
(https://icecube-us-846.icedrive.io/thumbnail?p=laf47OJwYKFqJyLIZHrSNOfNpiyYaLLhOalBrAUpBmFT%2FCGb0uvOfrxu4fFSOVvyJ6SGQ9Iy9Xflz%2BTm%2Bw3214X59oaSkRlFiFiTZS8UTtlZRZQoolrh67PdDNgUgb2L&w=1280&h=1280&m=cropped)
Core Details
  • Ace Core - Reduces fighter bay to 1 but significantly enhances wing ability. It is best suited for low deck carriers and combat carriers.
  • Swarm Core - Increases fighter bay at a cost of significantly reduced fighter replacement speed and the replacement rate will drop faster if suffering fighter loss. Using this core will be all-or-nothing: you burst down the enemy with ease or struggle to replenish wings on a failed strike.
  • Command Core - Significantly increases fighter engagement range and a bonus on command point regeneration. The downside is that 75% of the max speed is transferred to 0-flux bonus speed, so plan ahead before you issue the strike order.
  • Skirmish Core - Skirmish focuses on run-and-gun tactics. All the fighters receive a large speed bonus that is best suited for rapid deployments. The carrier itself also is made to allow 0-flux bonus to take effect at 2% flux, allowing the carrier to pick the fight with ease.
  • Support Core - Provides various fleet-wide bonuses and can heal its own fighters if they're close enough. If you don't know what to go with, this will be the safe pick.

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Modern Carrier Hullmods
Want to spice up some more? We got you covered!
(https://icecube-us-846.icedrive.io/thumbnail?p=Sl0AGKe1kqWvM4uijzhPMlBF62YI0jih0vwAyDgD3jgT6xAA0Tr7FuLmo%2BZeAOkNBrS6jJDFN5K7lgKu%2BYW0%2Frks1iCRIjh1xgjdt59EtZvFMfzPDdATpxW70Ct2YqXN&w=1280&h=1280&m=cropped)
Hullmod Details
  • Advanced Fighter Command - When a wing suffers more loss, the replacement speed is more increased. However, launching the fighter with such system will cost additional replacement rates. Overall it will be able to recover fighter losses much faster at additional costs of replacement rates.
  • Bomber External Hardpoint - Bombers get double bombs! But the extra weight significantly reduces their speed and maneuverability. Providing enough escort or right up doing close quarter combat would yield great results.
  • Fighter Armor Removal - Who needs armor anyways? Remove it to get flux and speed bonus!
  • Flux Quantum Entanglement - Transfers fighter flux to carrier, including hard flux. Can accidentally overload carrier, use with extreme cautions.
  • Gunship Heavy Ordnance - More DPS for non-bombers, but less maneuverability
  • Manufactory Load Balance - A hullmod that mostly benefits mixed wings, as fighter bays are often less damaged than bombers, this hullmod would be able to move the replacement rate from fighter to bomber and increases overall recovery speed.
  • Targeting Data Link - Ever wanted a 1800 range Xyphos wing? Now your Odyssey can get one! It allows the fighter to obtain range bonuses applied to the carrier, so don't forget your integrated targeting unit!
  • Fighter Command Overclock - Essentially carrier's safety override. Large bonuses with huge penalties, play simulation to get a feel of it.
"Did you beat the Paladin Paragon?"
"Yes"
"What did it cost?"
"200 pilots"
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missions
Operation Tango (Contains campaign spoiler)
(https://icecube-us-845.icedrive.io/thumbnail?p=%2FJYc5DLiONC7dlxoxY%2FNK%2FtL6grIixyHM1kPBWFUXZlr9D1AUNtlNvuT6%2BqyS73S1b7z795FZ7It8WQIp9Jreo0dqW1yrKbqXsf%2FAb%2BSlLNC5TQzr6TLEnLeACCZy9Q2&w=1280&h=1280&m=cropped)
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About S Addition
S Addition is a utility mod in folder Modern Carrier +

  • Prometheus Mk2 now has Fighter Command Overclock as built in, making it significantly more dangerous
  • Spark Interceptor now has 2 burst PD laser (high delay) instead of 1
  • All vanilla remnants and Astrals get Advanced Carrier as built in
  • All vanilla station hangar modules receives a Carrier Core and a Modern Carrier hullmod that fits the tech theme
  • Remnant station has 5 fighter related hullmods installed including Targeting Data Link and Advanced Carrier so be aware
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FAQ
What does Load Balancer actually do?
It's a less known fact that all fighter bays have their individual replacement rate, but vanilla always sync them across the board.
With Load Balancer, if you have multiple wings and one is heavily damaged while the other is not, it will suck all the replacement rate from the undamaged decks and move it to the one that needs replacement.
It also will show a combat UI to inform you all the decks' current active replacement rate.

For example, you have a wing at 1/3 and another at 3/3. Your replacement rate shows 80%, it means the replacement clock for the first wing is ticking at only 80% speed.
However if you install the Load Balancer, it shifts the rate from the second wing, the new replacement rate distribution will be 99% / 61%. Your damaged wing will be replacing at a much better speed but it cannot surpass the full speed (game limit).

How does the Command Overclock work?
 You will notice your replacement rate completely sucked dry upon entering battle because all replacement rates have been converted to reserved deployments - which gets deployed as soon as fighter loss or bomber done with bombing run.
Do note that increased reserved deployment will increase the cost of deployment rate for the next reserve. The current implementation ratio is every 100% wing size of reserve adds 100% of reserve cost. The costs quickly adds up so be aware.
For balance consideration, the cost DOES scale with the carrier's replacement time multiplier, so swarm core + overclock is not always a good idea. (Emergency Launch is currently NOT taking such multiplier into consideration)
This mod does not allow S-modding for obvious reasons.
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version log
WIP
AI Overhaul
Bastion Core AI (suspended)

2021/6/21 v1.6.1a
Re-adjusted Ace core again: prevent excessive multiplier for capitals
Removed fighter bay bonus completely

2021/6/21 v1.6.0a
Re-adjusted Ace wing
Updated all related variants

2021/6/10 v1.5.2a
Added a new dominator variant
Nerfed Ace core (specifically for low OP wings)
  • Base bonus cost increased to 4 (was: 3)
  • The base bonus cost now takes OP cost modifier into account
Added additional check on Ace core to prevent weird behavior

2021/6/8 v1.5.1b
Modified External Hardpoint to be more accessible
Modified some variants so Cores are more evenly distributed
Separated download repository for Modern Carrier (vanilla) and S Addition utility

2021/6/5 v1.5.0b
Fixed an unintended message

2021/6/5 v1.5.0a
Overhaul of object structure and UI elements. Should be cleaner than before.

Added another cursed Astrals variant.

2021/5/31 v1.4.2a
Revamped Emergency Launch Sequence:
It's now "Advanced Fighter Command", with a brand new graphic (copyright attached) and otherwise generic buff effect.

Buffed Skirmish Core to have lower range penalty, it's missing too much.

Added more detailed tooltip for several hullmods

Additional guardrail against Swarm core autofit by AI fleet: if a target variant doesn't contain swarm core initially it will never be fitted (because autofit doesn't auto fill fighter bays)

Reduced Load Balance OP cost

2021/5/31 v1.4.1a
Version checker compatible

2021/5/31 v1.4.0c
Fixed the bug retiring wrong hullmod, ooooops  :'(

2021/5/30 v1.4.0b
Reduced "Operation Tango" enemy difficulty (Test play was done during no officer and Alpha core is pretty OP)

2021/5/30 v1.4.0a
Retired Electronic Superiority (If you have installed it already you may keep it)

Allowed carrier with built-in wing to utilize Swarm core
Added Support Core (functionally replaces Electronic Superiority)
Added a very defensive Paragon variant and added to simulation. Perfect for testing out your carrier offense ability.

Added a new mission "Operation Tango"

2021/5/30 v1.3.7c
Fixed some variants
Added simulation opponents

2021/5/29 v1.3.7b
Fixed the exploit of s-mod. Attempting to S-mod then remove the requirement hullmod will result in fighters immediately die upon take-off.
Allowed Ace core to be installed on ships using Converted Hangar
Added several variants that may be spawned by vanilla factions, including converted-ace hangars (low chance)
Lowered FCO carrier spawn chance

2021/5/27 v1.3.6a
Ace Core bonus balance
Ace Core visual effect
Swarm Core removal guardrail
Further nerfed Fighter Command Overclock. Range penalty is now 60% (was 50%)
Added several new variants that have rather low chance to spawn, including a cursed variant.
Updated Modern Carrier + (Prometheus mk2 removed swarm core - it simply doesn't have the OP to do it)

2021/5/26 v1.3.5b
Fixed SO nerf (did not properly apply cost multiplier)

2021/5/26 v1.3.5a
Drastically changed Ace Core bonuses
Re-balanced hullmod prices, tier and OP cost
Removed ECCM sync for Targeting Data Link
Fixed a NPE and some similar potential exceptions
Nerfed Command Overclock: now cost scales double as fast

2021/5/25 v1.3.1a
All hullmods are now acquired via market or exploration
Moved some vanilla conversion to a separate utility mod
Slightly changed bonus for Ace Core

2021/5/24 v1.3.0a
Deactivation
Bastion Carrier Core: awaiting new AI library mod
If you have installed it prior to this version you can keep it, but since the vanilla AI is glitchy it's not recommended to keep using.

New Content
Ace Carrier Core: Reduce deck to 1 but significantly enhanced ability
Flux Quantum Entanglement: Fighter channel flux to carrier
Targeting Data Link: Fighter receives carrier targeting unit bonus

Update
Fighter Command Overclock graphics
Stations except for high tech all got updated Modern built in modules
Remnant carriers and stations are now much more deadly due to previous change

Fixes
Emergency Launch Sequence using wrong parameter
Fighter Armor Removal not removing armor properly

2021/5/16 v1.2.5a
Buffed bomber external hard points:
If a bomber is determined utilizing bomb bay, half the agility penalty and 1.5x rof to ensure finishing bombing run in one pass

Fixed an issue for Load Balancer not correctly determining lost fighter
Enhanced Load Balancer logic:
Only show one message. (Used to be 2 if empty deck reserve is available: pointless to show all other decks since they're all working at 99% capacity)
Enabled reaching 100% replacement rate if reserved rate is full / not having empty deck.

Added description for Swarm core for exact penalty information

2021/5/14 v1.2.0a
Changed bomber external hard points again:
Now all bombing runs lasts at least 2.5 seconds including rocket bombers and bomb bay bombers
(the latter should not get any actual impact)
If a weapon has 0 refire delay the effect does not apply; If the weapon regenerates it does not apply.

Nerfed Fighter Command Overclock:
Now uses a complicated mechanism that prevent infinite fighter spam. Basically it’s Emergency launch sequence but always active. The base cost is the same but for every additional reserved deployment the cost increases, so the reserve can not simply pile infinitely. The cost increase is proportional to reserve/(fighter wing size). Expect to see your replacement rate stuck below 50%: you’ll be solely relying on deploying the reserved fighters.
To prevent replacement rate stagger: removed replacement rate drop from lost fighter completely. You drain your replacement rate mainly by pumping out fighter reserves.

Added fighter ECM package.

Bastion Core is under bandage fix, updated the fighter operating range to 600.

All vanilla stations now host at least one carrier core and one modern modification.

Fixed several descriptions.

2021/5/12 v1.12a
Replaced bomber external hardpoint graphic (copyright attached)
Fixed a bug where agility modifier after dropping bomb over-tuned
Added a minimum re-fire delay for torpedo bomber (does not affect bomb bay bombers)
Modified vanilla hull built-in modern(TM) hullmod:
  • Midline station now uses Skirmish core
  • Low tech station now uses Command core and Gunship Heavy Ordnance
Changed tags for several hullmods to be more in-line with vanilla tag usage

2021/5/11 v1.1a
Fixed a bug where Load Balancer is not using empty fighter bays
Modified Skirmish Core: reduced complexity
Split Heavy Ordnance into bomber and non-bomber variants
Reduced performance impact for advanceInCombat methods

2021/5/11 v1.0a
Added Command Core
Added 4 new hullmods

2021/5/9 v095b
Revamped Skirmish core
Clarified some descriptions

2021/5/8 v095a
initial release
[close]

Special Thanks:
The Soldier (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=775): Balance / play testing
Peach Patrol (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=8778): Sharing knowledge about vanilla integration
maidlover (https://www.fossic.org/?5764) (Chinese forum): Balance / play testing

Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers
Post by: Jonlissla on May 08, 2021, 10:39:50 PM
Specialising carriers should be fun. I'll give the mod a go. Two things I've noticed though;

First, the .zip file only has a data directory, so you have to create a new mod folder and put said data folder in it for it to work. Takes like five seconds to make a new folder, tops, but it's a QoL thing.

Second, the Skirmish Carrier Core seems brutally strong on paper. A 100% boost to top speed AND acceleration? Haven't yet tried it out but I imagine this makes bombers brutally powerful.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers
Post by: The Soldier on May 08, 2021, 10:52:10 PM
I like the concepts of the new Carrier Cores! The Bastion core especially; this really lets you build a for a battlecarrier. Slap it on a Mora with a couple Roider Rocksaw wings and a Dragline, and you've got a dangerously powerful brick that can dish out damage like no one's business, if a bit near-sighted. 50% more range on the clipped Assault Chainguns, Vulcan Cannons, and mini-Sharpshooters? Check! +50% rate of fire on the Dragline's infinite-ammo Annihilator Rocket Pod? Check! -50% damage taken on already ridiculously tanky fighters? Check! Plus, with how tanky these fighters are, you don't even need to install Expanded Deck Crew, opening up more OP or another built-in mod. Don't even need to install any PD as the Draglines with IDPAI already built in have 900 range min-Sharpshooters. Things much greater than petty pirate warlords shall be broken upon the anvil of this Mora...possibly too much for it's own good, heh.

I do have some feedback, however. I'm looking at these from a non-built-in hull mod perspective, as that kind of breaks the system. Also, don't take my feedback as gospel, I'm no Megas when it comes to min-maxing killing efficiency, but these are my feelings.

The OP costs for these new hull mods is all over the place - the Skirmisher Carrier Core for 10/20/30/40 OP that grants 100% faster fighters (that also turn at half the rate) probably isn't worth the OP sink. If I may suggest something else: nerf the speed/acceleration buff to +50%, remove the turn rate penalty, add in a new buff that removes the flux cost for setting fighters to Engage, and reduce the OP cost to 10/15/20/40. No flux cost means the carrier won't lose it's 0-flux speed boost, so it can really run all over the place while the fighters can get to and from the carrier faster.

Fighter Command Overclock costs 10/20/40/60 OP for faster replacements, SO engines, and SO peak-performance-time, also doesn't quite feel right, but for a more complex reason - SO on regular combat ships improves the up-front damage of the ship, while this equivalent carrier SO improves the long-term damage of the carrier. But because it also slaps on SO PPT, there isn't any long-term for this carrier for them to take advantage of. You can also install it on capital ships, which doesn't quite fit with the balancing of the game currently as regular SO can't be installed, either. Not sure what to do about this one, truth be told, if anything at all.

Swarm Carrier Core seems the most balanced of the bunch - 20/40 OP for 1/2 extra fighter bays with a reasonable (?) downside. Converted Hangar equivalent for carriers.

Then there's the Bastion Carrier Core. 10/20/30/40 OP to make your fighters near-sighted bricks - fighters that are already tanky become nye-indestructible. I'm not sure how the math is handled with the -50% damage taken, but I think it favors fighters with high armor values due to how armor damage reduction is calculated. If it turns out to be too good, then changing it to -50% shield and hull damage taken could reduce it's power a touch, so low-shot-damage weapons like the Vulcan and Flak Cannon actually stand a chance at swatting the bowling balls that are Bastion'd fighters. The missile rate of fire buff is also an interesting choice, as the effect is minimal on bombers and has almost no effect on other fighters (most use the reload system rather than refire delay) - the only two fighters I can find that would be meaningfully affected by this are the Roider Dragline with it's infinite-ammo Annihilator Pod and the Roider Bolt Interceptor with it's 3.3 refire Zap SRM launcher.

Finally, you could improve the descriptions the Swarm and Overclock mods - the replacement time modifiers are vague references. However, the descriptions for the other mods are sufficiently detailed to know what you're getting.

Overall though, I do like the flavor this gives carriers. More options other than just slapping on Expanded Deck Crew, a couple bombers, and calling it a day - more specialized fighter swarms, battlecarriers, kiting carriers, and more ideas I probably haven't thought of it.  If I haven't made it obvious already, I do love battlecarriers!

Side note: the Roider Bolt Interceptor with the current iteration of the Skirmisher core boosts their speed from 500 to 1000. Safe to say it's absolutely hilarious to see these things nyoom across the map. The Roiders apparently have a lot of meme potential with this mod, heh.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers
Post by: Sutopia on May 09, 2021, 08:53:27 AM
I like the concepts of the new Carrier Cores! The Bastion core especially; this really lets you build a for a battlecarrier. Slap it on a Mora with a couple Roider Rocksaw wings and a Dragline, and you've got a dangerously powerful brick that can dish out damage like no one's business, if a bit near-sighted. 50% more range on the clipped Assault Chainguns, Vulcan Cannons, and mini-Sharpshooters? Check! +50% rate of fire on the Dragline's infinite-ammo Annihilator Rocket Pod? Check! -50% damage taken on already ridiculously tanky fighters? Check! Plus, with how tanky these fighters are, you don't even need to install Expanded Deck Crew, opening up more OP or another built-in mod. Don't even need to install any PD as the Draglines with IDPAI already built in have 900 range min-Sharpshooters. Things much greater than petty pirate warlords shall be broken upon the anvil of this Mora...possibly too much for it's own good, heh.

I do have some feedback, however. I'm looking at these from a non-built-in hull mod perspective, as that kind of breaks the system. Also, don't take my feedback as gospel, I'm no Megas when it comes to min-maxing killing efficiency, but these are my feelings.

The OP costs for these new hull mods is all over the place - the Skirmisher Carrier Core for 10/20/30/40 OP that grants 100% faster fighters (that also turn at half the rate) probably isn't worth the OP sink. If I may suggest something else: nerf the speed/acceleration buff to +50%, remove the turn rate penalty, add in a new buff that removes the flux cost for setting fighters to Engage, and reduce the OP cost to 10/15/20/40. No flux cost means the carrier won't lose it's 0-flux speed boost, so it can really run all over the place while the fighters can get to and from the carrier faster.

Fighter Command Overclock costs 10/20/40/60 OP for faster replacements, SO engines, and SO peak-performance-time, also doesn't quite feel right, but for a more complex reason - SO on regular combat ships improves the up-front damage of the ship, while this equivalent carrier SO improves the long-term damage of the carrier. But because it also slaps on SO PPT, there isn't any long-term for this carrier for them to take advantage of. You can also install it on capital ships, which doesn't quite fit with the balancing of the game currently as regular SO can't be installed, either. Not sure what to do about this one, truth be told, if anything at all.

Swarm Carrier Core seems the most balanced of the bunch - 20/40 OP for 1/2 extra fighter bays with a reasonable (?) downside. Converted Hangar equivalent for carriers.

Then there's the Bastion Carrier Core. 10/20/30/40 OP to make your fighters near-sighted bricks - fighters that are already tanky become nye-indestructible. I'm not sure how the math is handled with the -50% damage taken, but I think it favors fighters with high armor values due to how armor damage reduction is calculated. If it turns out to be too good, then changing it to -50% shield and hull damage taken could reduce it's power a touch, so low-shot-damage weapons like the Vulcan and Flak Cannon actually stand a chance at swatting the bowling balls that are Bastion'd fighters. The missile rate of fire buff is also an interesting choice, as the effect is minimal on bombers and has almost no effect on other fighters (most use the reload system rather than refire delay) - the only two fighters I can find that would be meaningfully affected by this are the Roider Dragline with it's infinite-ammo Annihilator Pod and the Roider Bolt Interceptor with it's 3.3 refire Zap SRM launcher.

Finally, you could improve the descriptions the Swarm and Overclock mods - the replacement time modifiers are vague references. However, the descriptions for the other mods are sufficiently detailed to know what you're getting.

Overall though, I do like the flavor this gives carriers. More options other than just slapping on Expanded Deck Crew, a couple bombers, and calling it a day - more specialized fighter swarms, battlecarriers, kiting carriers, and more ideas I probably haven't thought of it.  If I haven't made it obvious already, I do love battlecarriers!

Side note: the Roider Bolt Interceptor with the current iteration of the Skirmisher core boosts their speed from 500 to 1000. Safe to say it's absolutely hilarious to see these things nyoom across the map. The Roiders apparently have a lot of meme potential with this mod, heh.

Thanks for the feedback.
This mod was not balanced in regard of any mod fighters. Vanilla fighters using bastion without the range help are not doing anything useful.
If needed I may add a SO-similar range restriction to make sure mod fighters are not sniping across the map.

SO Carrier is currently asserting instant replace - the description was vague because there were several attempts but few works.
Instant replace means bombers are "replaced" as soon as their payload is dropped, making it a stream of constant fighter attack, which also justifies it's cost.
The cost of SO Carrier is not in line with cores for obvious reason - it's not a core. It also corresponds to a hidden limit that it otherwise untold: 1/2/4/6 base fighter bays for sizes. Any mod ship having beyond that fighter bay count would be considered overmodded and the mod will be providing more power than it should, so it'll just ban you from using.

For Swarm I have specified that the production power is evenly distributed among all flight decks.
The time multiplier is (base+bonus)/base, so it'll always be penalty and penalty is much harsher for low base deck ones.
For example, an Odyssey has base of 2 decks. Adding 2 using swarm core means it's replacement time is 4/2=2, doubled.
The cost *was* -/-/30/40 but 30 for a single deck on a cruiser seems too expensive for what it is.

Skirmish was the last hullmod added and TBH I like your suggestion. Still need some juggling in terms of what it can/should do and what flavor it brings.
I was already tired when designing it and I want to make the initial release have at least three flavors to choose from.
I'll need some more test play to see what numbers feel right but not overpowered. Agility is a huge deal in most situations so there must be a meaningful malus that make it a bit niche instead of straight good.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers
Post by: The Soldier on May 09, 2021, 11:16:44 AM
Ahh, I misunderstood what Fighter Overclock does! It just cuts the base replacement time to 0 and reduces the replacement rate loss to 0 rather than just reducing the replacement rate loss (Expanded Deck Crews got stuck in my head). Might be better to just say "base replacement time set to 0 seconds and replacement rate never drops" or something like that. I can understand the power now; combine this with Swarm Core to nullify the replacement time nerf, get more fighters, and then just spam expendable fighters like Talons that constantly respawn with fresh ordnance. A build that even Megas would love, heh.

For the replacement time stuff on the Swarm core, yeah that's what I thought. Not sure it's there a concise way of describing that more precisely though, so it'll do fine for now.

Something I noticed while testing the Skirmish core, it seems bombers with unguided munitions (like Perditions or Kassadari Calivers) can't hit the side of a barn - they can't seem to compensate for the lost turn rate, and when combined with the increased speed, at least one torpedo goes way off target from each strike, even against completely stationary targets like the Tart's borg cube. Unintended side effect, though that probably works in it's favor for balancing.

For the Bastion core, the range increase was perfectly fine, no comments there. With the fighters tied to the mothership, they need to have more range in order to get things done. It's the missile rate of fire buff that piqued my curiosity - pretty much nothing uses that kind of buff except for a handful of modded fighters. What was the idea behind this?
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers
Post by: Sutopia on May 09, 2021, 11:52:17 AM
Ahh, I misunderstood what Fighter Overclock does! It just cuts the base replacement time to 0 and reduces the replacement rate loss to 0 rather than just reducing the replacement rate loss (Expanded Deck Crews got stuck in my head). Might be better to just say "base replacement time set to 0 seconds and replacement rate never drops" or something like that. I can understand the power now; combine this with Swarm Core to nullify the replacement time nerf, get more fighters, and then just spam expendable fighters like Talons that constantly respawn with fresh ordnance. A build that even Megas would love, heh.

For the replacement time stuff on the Swarm core, yeah that's what I thought. Not sure it's there a concise way of describing that more precisely though, so it'll do fine for now.

For the Bastion core, the range increase was perfectly fine, no comments there. With the fighters tied to the mothership, they need to have more range in order to get things done. It's the missile rate of fire buff that piqued my curiosity - pretty much nothing uses that kind of buff except for a handful of modded fighters. What was the idea behind this?

The flash bomber was in my mind giving that specific rate of fire buff. I’m not sure why anyone would do that but...

Thinking it twice I maybe just replace it with missile speed. I don’t think missile specialization skill and ECCM apply to fighters?
That said I’m not going to throw a hotfix for that one.
It’ll be patched along next major update.

work in progress ideas
Snipe core: increase carrier itself’s sensor range in battle, increase fighter operating range
Significantly reduced carrier max speed. However, zero-flux speed bonus is increased to compensate.

Manufactory Load Balancer: moves the fighter production rate around. If one bay is intact the production power will be utilized to assist production of other bays. (3/6/9/12)
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Edit: you sure you don’t want the rescue shuttle now? Overclock talon crew loss is mind blowingly high...
I might want to go one step further doubling fighter taken damage so it’s more calculated risk instead of allowing carelessly pouring out fighters and win. However it will depend on feedback and how it would interact with other mods.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers
Post by: The Soldier on May 09, 2021, 02:10:55 PM
Bombers with the Bastion core, not the first idea to come to mind, especially bomb-bay types.  Missile speed would be a welcome addition for just about any fighter with missiles - but make sure to reduce the missile time to live proportionally, otherwise they'll get more range.  Missile maneuverability would also be nice, if that isn't possible.

Rescue Shuttles are cheap enough and when combined with Fighter Uplink to keep crew casualties down. Or just bring along a couple Valkyries to haul along as many unwilling pilots as you need, heh. I think the PPT is harsh enough that you don't need to nerf the fighters.

I like the sounds of Manufactory Load Balancer, though it looks like it'll be another Expanded Deck Crews mod - slap it on every carrier that's got more than one flight deck. But that's more because of a complete lack of hull mods for carriers rather than the hull mod itself, and your Modern Carriers mod goes a long way to resolving some of that.

By the way, I do like the sounds of cheaper hull mods that does one specific thing rather than a package deal like the other previous ones - these follow more along the lines of regular combat ship hull mods than stuff like SO or Heavy Armor that do one specific thing, akin to the carrier cores you've got here. Might be worth pursuing more things like that so carriers are more flexible in choosing how to buff their fighters.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers
Post by: Thaago on May 09, 2021, 02:20:17 PM
Looks neat! I'll give this a download and check it out, I do love me some fighters.

Without playing I can immediately think of ships I'd use Bastion and Swarm on - I'd have to try skirmish to see how it feels. On the one hand, thunders would go sooo fast. On the other, I'm not sure they'd be able to damage anything! Overclock again I'd need to try it on a few things to see.

... I wonder how Longbows + Bastion would do... +50% range on burst PD would be real good. Even something like Talons to be rapid firing their missiles would be real good especially with -50% damage... My favorite thing from waaaay back when was to pilot a Hammerhead with a Broadsword wing set to escort it (because the broadsword would exactly fit in its hangar space). I wonder if converted hangar + bastion could do that again. Otoh its a ton of OP.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers
Post by: Sutopia on May 09, 2021, 02:36:27 PM
Looks neat! I'll give this a download and check it out, I do love me some fighters.

Without playing I can immediately think of ships I'd use Bastion and Swarm on - I'd have to try skirmish to see how it feels. On the one hand, thunders would go sooo fast. On the other, I'm not sure they'd be able to damage anything! Overclock again I'd need to try it on a few things to see.

... I wonder how Longbows + Bastion would do... +50% range on burst PD would be real good. Even something like Talons to be rapid firing their missiles would be real good especially with -50% damage... My favorite thing from waaaay back when was to pilot a Hammerhead with a Broadsword wing set to escort it (because the broadsword would exactly fit in its hangar space). I wonder if converted hangar + bastion could do that again. Otoh its a ton of OP.

I precluded all ships with 0 base fighter bay from installing these new hullmods because I was afraid people doing the weird trick of installing a hull mod, build the thing in and then remove the conversion mod. Especially with the swarm one, the calculation will immediately error out because attempting to divide by 0.

However I do think it’s reasonable to allow converted hangars to utilize non-swarm cores. The OP cost is very high in first place. Let me patch that up next weekend.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers V1.0
Post by: Sutopia on May 11, 2021, 01:02:38 AM
1.0 updated
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers V1.0
Post by: Deageon on May 11, 2021, 02:02:23 PM
FYI, the mod prv already did a last-stand sorta thing with their uh, gravi-something reversion core. Any destroyed carrier with the hullmod spawns a swarm-host ship to keep it's wings fighting.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers V1.0
Post by: Sutopia on May 11, 2021, 02:10:32 PM
FYI, the mod prv already did a last-stand sorta thing with their uh, gravi-something reversion core. Any destroyed carrier with the hullmod spawns a swarm-host ship to keep it's wings fighting.
I was thinking the shard spawner equivalent, thus there is no additional host ship involved.
But since there already exists an equivalent I’ll skip on that one.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers V1.0
Post by: The Soldier on May 11, 2021, 02:33:24 PM
After putting in some more time with the Bastion Carrier Core, I've noticed some wonky behavior with it. By setting engagement range to 0, all your fighters revert to support fighter status - meaning, they completely ignore Engage orders. They'll still go up and attack a target within 500su or so using an orbit attack pattern (not the same as their usual), but you have absolutely no control over which target they're going to attack, it's like herding cats! More a vanilla issue, though. The AI also occasionally tries to set their fighters to Engage, but it doesn't do anything since they're all leashed to the carrier and they don't follow target orders.

That aside, the new hull mods look interesting. Emergency Launch Sequence for expendable fighters, and Manufactury Load Balance for when you have mixed fighters. The speed and maneuverability debuffs for Fighter Heavy Armaments are pretty harsh, though - some capital ships could outrun those fighters! The only saving grace for slow fighters that use it is that fighter speed is automatically boosted to the carrier's speed, plus 20su on top when set to Regroup so they can keep up.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers V1.0
Post by: Sutopia on May 11, 2021, 03:36:31 PM
Heavy ordnance primarily benefits bomb bay bombers as they can create a literal wall of bomb.
Torpedo bombers benefits a lot as well but will be taking much larger risk of getting shot down.
I’m still observing the balance. At one point the penalty was only 30% but it renders bombers unable to deplete bay in one approach so it got changed to 40%.

An alternative would be only bombers take 40% penalty and all others take less, making heavy fighters a bit more viable. However since some non-bomber fighters do utilize missile weaponry it makes things complicated, and I don’t want to make the mod effect extremely complicated that becomes otherwise hard to explain.

An alternative may be just separate it into two mods: heavy guns and heavy bomb bays. But then I doubt how many people would be using heavy gun if it’s not bastion, and if the heavy gun paired with skirmish just free rate of fire.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers V1.0
Post by: dEVoRaTriX_LuX on May 11, 2021, 04:28:45 PM
Sorry I'm kinda dumb but what does Manufactory Load Balance do?
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers V1.0
Post by: Sutopia on May 11, 2021, 04:36:28 PM
Sorry I'm kinda dumb but what does Manufactory Load Balance do?
If a bay has no fighter loss the replacement rate will be moved to another bay that has suffered any fighter loss. A full bay isn’t using the replacement rate after all.
To prevent undermining the minimum replacement rate, a bay providing replacement rate to another bay cannot drop its replacement rate below minimum (0.3).
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers V1.1
Post by: Arcagnello on May 12, 2021, 03:23:51 AM
I'm definetly trying this novel-idea-made-mod out in my new campaign, should definetly make carrier play fun!

Will let you know (in a week or two) when I start using these new hullmods on my Luddic Church/Path ships!
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers V1.1
Post by: latua95 on May 12, 2021, 07:56:34 AM
hello? Can I reprint your mod please?
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers V1.1
Post by: Sutopia on May 12, 2021, 08:09:37 AM
hello? Can I reprint your mod please?
What are you trying to do?
I won’t give any permission without a context.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers V1.1
Post by: The Soldier on May 12, 2021, 05:01:19 PM
Erm, with Bomber External Hardpoints, did you expect it to also double the munitions for missile weapons? Someone must've ordered 16 Atropos torpedoes at once from a just pair of Trident wings. Or this unholy number of Sabots from a set of Longbow wings. Don't even get me started on what an Astral will do. All the speed nerf does is promote the carrier to get closer to battle, which is for the better anyway because of shorter recycle times. I'm also fairly certain that fighter speeds are scuffed on the return, I saw some Tridents returning at a neat 390su/s, and Flash bombers coming back at the ludicrous speed of 510su/s.

As a side note, the carrier core hull mods are also listed under the Special tab, probably not needed there since there's an entire tab dedicated to them. Also, the Gunship Heavy Ordnance and Bomber External Hardpoint hull mods are also listed under Weapons - should probably be removed from there since they don't directly affect the carrier's own weapons.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers V1.1
Post by: latua95 on May 12, 2021, 05:25:20 PM
Moving mainly here
https://www.fossic.org
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers V1.1
Post by: Sutopia on May 12, 2021, 09:12:07 PM
Erm, with Bomber External Hardpoints, did you expect it to also double the munitions for missile weapons? Someone must've ordered 16 Atropos torpedoes at once from a just pair of Trident wings. Or this unholy number of Sabots from a set of Longbow wings. Don't even get me started on what an Astral will do. All the speed nerf does is promote the carrier to get closer to battle, which is for the better anyway because of shorter recycle times. I'm also fairly certain that fighter speeds are scuffed on the return, I saw some Tridents returning at a neat 390su/s, and Flash bombers coming back at the ludicrous speed of 510su/s.

That was exactly what I meant to do? Double missile ammo.
The extremely reduced speed makes DPS not significantly increased {1+1 > (2.5 + 1)/2}, if at all, but increases burst potential. It also makes bomber more exposed and much easier to shoot down during the approach.
However I do see the flaw when it applies to torpedo types - or any single firing high damage ammo that was not intended to be fired in quick succession.
There, done - added a minimum re-fire delay for one-off missiles. This will break if a mod is using a single ammo gun bomber but I highly doubt who would ever do that.

The speed is now fixed as well. For some reason the status multiplier can only be applied once per source - thus I should just set multiply modifier to 1 instead of inverse penalty.

Sadly I have yet to figure out how to force AI focus target during Bastion and Bastion is rendering certain bomber AIs not dropping bombs at all.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.12
Post by: The Soldier on May 12, 2021, 10:55:58 PM
There, done - added a minimum re-fire delay for one-off missiles. This will break if a mod is using a single ammo gun bomber but I highly doubt who would ever do that.
*cough* (https://imgur.com/a/KxWAHrB)

That aside, still a ridiculously powerful system I'm sure will get some good use in the hands of enterprising carrier commanders.

Not sure if you'll be able to fix the Bastion stuff, it's definitely a vanilla issue. Hopefully David or Alex will be able to help that that in the future. And yeah, I forgot to mention, bomber AI is confused when only able to set to Regroup - those with guided munitions tend to do just fine (like Daggers, Tridents etc.) but those with bombs or unguided torpedoes almost never fire. Iin particular, I've seen bomb-equipped bombers act in very strange ways with Bastion. What if the Engagement range was set to some small, but non-0 value, maybe 100? For all intents and purposes, no engagement range, but it might kick the AI into acting properly. Might come with it's own baggage, but it's a thought.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.12
Post by: dcong89 on May 12, 2021, 11:12:55 PM
with this mod + Fighter Expansion Rebalanced mod , my carrier now too OPs :P
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.12
Post by: Sutopia on May 12, 2021, 11:48:21 PM
*cough* (https://imgur.com/a/KxWAHrB)
It's not even possible to set the refire delay for this one with standard API modifying RoF since it's +infinity.


Again I don't want to post unnecessary additional restrictions regarding mod fighter - I'll blame the mod providing such fighter if they turned out OP  :P
During my own testing after the re-fire delay added it doesn't seem too bad if you're trying to keep carrier at safe distance - which AI usually does.
It is extremely useful during retreat but pursuit becomes nigh impossible, so there's that.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.12
Post by: CrimsonPhalanx on May 14, 2021, 06:22:43 AM
I have some ideas I want to suggest, but as I only played a bit of the mod some of these might not work as well as they do in my head.

1. A hullmod that increases the fighter wing size (and replacement rate to compensate) at the cost of firepower/damage done, basically the idea is to trade crew casualties to spread out the damage, so losing one fighter would mean losing a smaller amount of firepower. Or alternatively, this is probably harder to make, but have extra weaponless decoys added to the wing to soak up damage.

2. A cheap/free hullmod that reduces fighter cost (well, cheap enough to not make it cost more in total), but the fighters will be severely weakened, the idea is to mount sub par versions of high cost fighters on weaker carriers.

3. probably some endurance core for the carriers that give them better replacement rate recovery at the cost of the carrier stats, like slowed speed or cut down flux to use for the replacement recovery.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.12
Post by: Sutopia on May 14, 2021, 07:37:22 AM
I have some ideas I want to suggest, but as I only played a bit of the mod some of these might not work as well as they do in my head.

1. A hullmod that increases the fighter wing size (and replacement rate to compensate) at the cost of firepower/damage done, basically the idea is to trade crew casualties to spread out the damage, so losing one fighter would mean losing a smaller amount of firepower. Or alternatively, this is probably harder to make, but have extra weaponless decoys added to the wing to soak up damage.

2. A cheap/free hullmod that reduces fighter cost (well, cheap enough to not make it cost more in total), but the fighters will be severely weakened, the idea is to mount sub par versions of high cost fighters on weaker carriers.

3. probably some endurance core for the carriers that give them better replacement rate recovery at the cost of the carrier stats, like slowed speed or cut down flux to use for the replacement recovery.
The first two are hard no.

First one as hard as I tried it requires extremely janky implementation involving juggling and tracking every fighter of a wing per frame and add extra fighter to wing accordingly which is glitchy at best.
Second one is against general modding regarding OP manipulation, any hullmod modifying OP cost should be built in.

Third one I did have a draft about Enduring Core but not what you’re thinking here. Increment of replacement speed recovery is likely not noticed by AI algorithm if at all.
Current design of Enduring Core is healing (remote repair) fighters within certain radius of the carrier, or something like that. Non-bombers never try to dock to repair afaik so I think this would be nice for player to ensure they’re not sending planes that’s gonna explode with the slightest touch. However it doesn’t seem strong enough for a standalone core and I need some other effects in the same bucket to make the core happen.
Increasing recovery rate is likely not an option due to overlap with expanded deck crew.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.12
Post by: CrimsonPhalanx on May 14, 2021, 08:22:05 AM
Ohh the idea for the Enduring core sounds interesting, for other effects I can only think of reduced damage, but it overlaps with bastion. Not sure if its possible but since its in a limited range would making the fighters go faster when they are called back to the carrier to regroup so they can reach the healing zone easier be a good idea? This way its more like a hit and run playstyle where they go in, fight a bit, and quickly run back to repair.

Either way I'm excited to see the results, I absolutely love the ability to specialize carriers so keep up the good work!
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.12
Post by: jlrperkins on May 14, 2021, 08:33:28 AM
Interesting.

Regarding point 2: Is there a way to define a hullmod so its effects are changed if the hullmod is made permanent using a story point? Then you could have a hullmod that provides a bonus when it's not permanent, and a different/enhanced bonus when it's made permanent. This may be a way to implement #2 without stepping on the "hullmods that modify OP cost must be built-in"

I have some ideas I want to suggest, but as I only played a bit of the mod some of these might not work as well as they do in my head.

1. A hullmod that increases the fighter wing size (and replacement rate to compensate) at the cost of firepower/damage done, basically the idea is to trade crew casualties to spread out the damage, so losing one fighter would mean losing a smaller amount of firepower. Or alternatively, this is probably harder to make, but have extra weaponless decoys added to the wing to soak up damage.

2. A cheap/free hullmod that reduces fighter cost (well, cheap enough to not make it cost more in total), but the fighters will be severely weakened, the idea is to mount sub par versions of high cost fighters on weaker carriers.

3. probably some endurance core for the carriers that give them better replacement rate recovery at the cost of the carrier stats, like slowed speed or cut down flux to use for the replacement recovery.
The first two are hard no.

First one as hard as I tried it requires extremely janky implementation involving juggling and tracking every fighter of a wing per frame and add extra fighter to wing accordingly which is glitchy at best.
Second one is against general modding regarding OP manipulation, any hullmod modifying OP cost should be built in.

Third one I did have a draft about Enduring Core but not what you’re thinking here. Increment of replacement speed recovery is likely not noticed by AI algorithm if at all.
Current design of Enduring Core is healing (remote repair) fighters within certain radius of the carrier, or something like that. Non-bombers never try to dock to repair afaik so I think this would be nice for player to ensure they’re not sending planes that’s gonna explode with the slightest touch. However it doesn’t seem strong enough for a standalone core and I need some other effects in the same bucket to make the core happen.
Increasing recovery rate is likely not an option due to overlap with expanded deck crew.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.12
Post by: Sutopia on May 14, 2021, 08:40:44 AM
Interesting.

Regarding point 2: Is there a way to define a hullmod so its effects are changed if the hullmod is made permanent using a story point? Then you could have a hullmod that provides a bonus when it's not permanent, and a different/enhanced bonus when it's made permanent. This may be a way to implement #2 without stepping on the "hullmods that modify OP cost must be built-in"

It is definitely possible but why would you do that?
I am personally against any idea of story points providing “exclusive” content. It would also make hull mod description complicated at best. I don’t think it’s the right approach.

However it does seem okay to do something like, say, 40% reduced replacement time but is launched at -50% starting CR, making them very likely to malfunction especially if the carrier is not at decent CR %.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.12
Post by: jlrperkins on May 14, 2021, 09:02:40 AM
I noticed a bug/issue with the Bastion Core hullmod

When using a wing from the Arma Armatura mod, the wing was locked on the "hide behind carrier" behavior, just like bombers on "Regroup", regardless of engage/regroup status. Is this a hardcoded behavior? I seem to remember that wings with zero engagement ignore the engage/regroup setting. Can a hullmod modify the behavior of the wings to fix this? Ideally, a carrier with this hullmod would have all its wings spread to the sides/front, acting as guards for the carrier, instead of hiding behind it.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.12
Post by: Sutopia on May 14, 2021, 09:06:21 AM
I noticed a bug/issue with the Bastion Core hullmod

When using a wing from the Arma Armatura mod, the wing was locked on the "hide behind carrier" behavior, just like bombers on "Regroup", regardless of engage/regroup status. Is this a hardcoded behavior? I seem to remember that wings with zero engagement ignore the engage/regroup setting. Can a hullmod modify the behavior of the wings to fix this? Ideally, a carrier with this hullmod would have all its wings spread to the sides/front, acting as guards for the carrier, instead of hiding behind it.
I think it can be done by overriding ship AI of fighter on fighter creation. However I’m not that familiar with custom AI so I’ll need to dig into that.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.12
Post by: The Soldier on May 14, 2021, 10:22:36 AM
I noticed a bug/issue with the Bastion Core hullmod

When using a wing from the Arma Armatura mod, the wing was locked on the "hide behind carrier" behavior, just like bombers on "Regroup", regardless of engage/regroup status. Is this a hardcoded behavior? I seem to remember that wings with zero engagement ignore the engage/regroup setting. Can a hullmod modify the behavior of the wings to fix this? Ideally, a carrier with this hullmod would have all its wings spread to the sides/front, acting as guards for the carrier, instead of hiding behind it.
Just FYI that's standard Support Fighter behavior - they stay behind the carrier to, well, provide support. However, if the parent ship decides to Vent, they will move up to in front to actually take some hits for the carrier, which is nice.

Support Fighters in general are like herding cats though, they don't listen to Engage orders at all, and more often than not will shoot the wrong thing.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.12
Post by: jlrperkins on May 14, 2021, 01:20:08 PM
Xyphos wings are supports done (mostly) right: they zip around close to their carrier and shoot anyone that comes close. The behavior I reported was the whole wings staying huddled together without moving at all, at about 300 hundred units directly behind their carrier, exactly like bombers on Regroup. Also, I don't recall them moving forward when the carrier was venting.

If the mod also applied an override to all wings' AI so they acted a bit like Xyphos, I think it would be a great improvement.



I noticed a bug/issue with the Bastion Core hullmod

When using a wing from the Arma Armatura mod, the wing was locked on the "hide behind carrier" behavior, just like bombers on "Regroup", regardless of engage/regroup status. Is this a hardcoded behavior? I seem to remember that wings with zero engagement ignore the engage/regroup setting. Can a hullmod modify the behavior of the wings to fix this? Ideally, a carrier with this hullmod would have all its wings spread to the sides/front, acting as guards for the carrier, instead of hiding behind it.
Just FYI that's standard Support Fighter behavior - they stay behind the carrier to, well, provide support. However, if the parent ship decides to Vent, they will move up to in front to actually take some hits for the carrier, which is nice.

Support Fighters in general are like herding cats though, they don't listen to Engage orders at all, and more often than not will shoot the wrong thing.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.12
Post by: The Soldier on May 14, 2021, 01:54:54 PM
Wings with 0 engagement range specifically ignore Engage orders, not Regroup - they act like they're on Regroup all the time. How the wing acts while on Regroup comes down to what type of wing they are - fighters and interceptors hang around up front and attack any close enemy in an orbit pattern, support fighters do their own thing, and bombers hang way in the back doing nothing at all if they're armed with unguided ordnance. Bastion doesn't do anything to change fighter AI, everything else goes back to vanilla mechanics, and it doesn't play well with Bastion.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.12
Post by: Sutopia on May 14, 2021, 02:45:48 PM
Wings with 0 engagement range specifically ignore Engage orders, not Regroup - they act like they're on Regroup all the time. How the wing acts while on Regroup comes down to what type of wing they are - fighters and interceptors hang around up front and attack any close enemy in an orbit pattern, support fighters do their own thing, and bombers hang way in the back doing nothing at all if they're armed with unguided ordnance. Bastion doesn't do anything to change fighter AI, everything else goes back to vanilla mechanics, and it doesn't play well with Bastion.

Adding a little bit of context

The behavior checks two values:
If the carrier is set to engage
If the target is in engagement range. If no locked target, check if nearest target is in engagement range. (Or rather, operating range if you would)

So it doesn’t work by setting an arbitrary positive value. The AI requires complete override.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.12
Post by: Bulldog on May 14, 2021, 07:10:25 PM
Not sure if it's happening for anyone else, but my windows defender is picking up the download as a threat for some reason. Trojan:Script/Wacatac.B!ml
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.12
Post by: Dhodho on May 14, 2021, 07:37:10 PM
That does not sound good
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.12
Post by: Sutopia on May 14, 2021, 09:28:02 PM
Not sure if it's happening for anyone else, but my windows defender is picking up the download as a threat for some reason. Trojan:Script/Wacatac.B!ml
Did you have such issue with any other mod?
Which part of the mod got removed? Is it just .jar?
Have you tried any "actual" antivirus? I've scanned my release package with several antivirus and none reported any threat.
You should be able to see all other files and they're all just plain text.

I will not disclose source code just because a random guy uses windows defender that throws a false positive.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.12
Post by: Bulldog on May 14, 2021, 10:09:33 PM
Not sure if it's happening for anyone else, but my windows defender is picking up the download as a threat for some reason. Trojan:Script/Wacatac.B!ml
Did you have such issue with any other mod?
Which part of the mod got removed? Is it just .jar?
Have you tried any "actual" antivirus? I've scanned my release package with several antivirus and none reported any threat.
You should be able to see all other files and they're all just plain text.

I will not disclose source code just because a random guy uses windows defender that throws a false positive.

Wow okay, first off, calm down and stop acting so defensive, I'm just letting you know that something seems to be tripping an anti-virus. I'm not looking to steal your source code or whatever conspiracy theory you seem to have cooked-up.

But for your actual questions, No other issues with other mods, whole 7zip file gets deleted immediately on download and I've put the file through virustotal and hybrid analysis which both reported clean.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.12
Post by: Sutopia on May 14, 2021, 10:35:31 PM
Not sure if it's happening for anyone else, but my windows defender is picking up the download as a threat for some reason. Trojan:Script/Wacatac.B!ml
Did you have such issue with any other mod?
Which part of the mod got removed? Is it just .jar?
Have you tried any "actual" antivirus? I've scanned my release package with several antivirus and none reported any threat.
You should be able to see all other files and they're all just plain text.

I will not disclose source code just because a random guy uses windows defender that throws a false positive.

Wow okay, first off, calm down and stop acting so defensive, I'm just letting you know that something seems to be tripping an anti-virus. I'm not looking to steal your source code or whatever conspiracy theory you seem to have cooked-up.

But for your actual questions, No other issues with other mods, whole 7zip file gets deleted immediately on download and I've put the file through virustotal and hybrid analysis which both reported clean.

I apologize. It's mainly because a relatively new account suddenly claiming about the mod containing virus and another relatively new account closely replied negatively without context.
Almost like a drama happened elsewhere, by false claiming mod being malicious for disclosure of source code.

If windows defender is still being a d**k you can go to https://github.com/Sutopia/-StarSector-0.95a-Modern-Carrier/tree/v1.2 for individual files
Let me know if any individual file gets complained by windows defender.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.12
Post by: Bulldog on May 14, 2021, 11:12:05 PM
Not sure if it's happening for anyone else, but my windows defender is picking up the download as a threat for some reason. Trojan:Script/Wacatac.B!ml
Did you have such issue with any other mod?
Which part of the mod got removed? Is it just .jar?
Have you tried any "actual" antivirus? I've scanned my release package with several antivirus and none reported any threat.
You should be able to see all other files and they're all just plain text.

I will not disclose source code just because a random guy uses windows defender that throws a false positive.

Wow okay, first off, calm down and stop acting so defensive, I'm just letting you know that something seems to be tripping an anti-virus. I'm not looking to steal your source code or whatever conspiracy theory you seem to have cooked-up.

But for your actual questions, No other issues with other mods, whole 7zip file gets deleted immediately on download and I've put the file through virustotal and hybrid analysis which both reported clean.

I apologize. It's mainly because a relatively new account suddenly claiming about the mod containing virus and another relatively new account closely replied negatively without context.
Almost like a drama happened elsewhere, by false claiming mod being malicious for disclosure of source code.

If windows defender is still being a d**k you can go to https://github.com/Sutopia/-StarSector-0.95a-Modern-Carrier/tree/v1.2 for individual files
Let me know if any individual file gets complained by windows defender.

Oh huh, didn't realise my account was that new, I've been around since 2018(not that old relative to some of the veterans here, but not fresh either) but I guess I just downloaded mods without creating an account back then.

Not sure which incident you're referring to, but fair enough I suppose.

I'm actually already using 1.2, I set defender to ignore the file after checking it came up clean on virustotal and hybrid analysis. Scanning the unzipped folder also doesn't turn up any flags, with both defender and malwarebytes, so defender was probably reading something funny with the zip file?
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.2.5a
Post by: Sutopia on May 16, 2021, 04:38:24 PM
The mod is updated to 1.2.5a with some QoL enhancement and bug fixes.
There will not be any further minor version for 1.2.X unless critical bug is found.
Working fully on re-inventing the wheel (I mean, AI) for Bastion.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.2.5a
Post by: Bulldog on May 17, 2021, 05:28:46 AM
In version 1.1 of this mod(where Bastion would set engagement range to 0), AI carriers would still attempt to "engage" fighters despite that not doing anything due to the 0 engagement range, just generating flux for no reason.

I was actually using another mod [0.9.1a] Disable Action Hullmods (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=18435) here that forced ai-piloted carriers to always stick to "Regroup" instead of adjusting engagement distance. I see that you're mainly dealing with undesirable regroup behavior for certain fighter types now, so I'm not sure how useful this might be but perhaps there might be something useful there? (with that mod author's permission presumably)
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.2.5a
Post by: Sutopia on May 17, 2021, 05:37:32 AM
In version 1.1 of this mod(where Bastion would set engagement range to 0), AI carriers would still attempt to "engage" fighters despite that not doing anything due to the 0 engagement range, just generating flux for no reason.

I was actually using another mod [0.9.1a] Disable Action Hullmods (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=18435) here that forced ai-piloted carriers to always stick to "Regroup" instead of adjusting engagement distance. I see that you're mainly dealing with undesirable regroup behavior for certain fighter types now, so I'm not sure how useful this might be but perhaps there might be something useful there? (with that mod author's permission presumably)

It’s not the carrier that got issue but the fighter AIs.
Fighters are not doing anything at range 0 and just ignores your order altogether.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.2.5a
Post by: Bidiguilo on May 20, 2021, 01:15:12 PM
Honestly, this mod is very creative and a must have for anyone who enjoys playing carriers.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.2.5a
Post by: PeachPatrol on May 22, 2021, 06:15:03 AM
It would be nice if the vanilla factions knew these hullmods so they could be randomly selected and sold in markets.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.3.0a
Post by: Sutopia on May 23, 2021, 09:08:22 PM
V1.3.0a is out! (Log updating)
Sorry I lied in WIP! Bastion rework is too complicated and I decided to make an AI library first!
Temporarily replaced with Ace core. I personally like it very much and paired with the new hullmods should achieve similar effects.

Would like all feedbacks regarding balance of:
Ace Carrier Core
Fighter Command Overclock
and of course every other hullmod

It would be nice if the vanilla factions knew these hullmods so they could be randomly selected and sold in markets.
I'm not entirely sure how to do that. I did add hullmods as built in to some vanilla hulls and marked all of them as "merc" so high end bounties should be using them occasionally.
If you know a better way doing this please let me know.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.3.0a
Post by: Damienov on May 23, 2021, 11:10:36 PM
a small itsy bitsy request for you @Sutopia

can the version name be on the file name instead?
I've used a lot of mods and version number/name after mods filename help on organizing

cheers
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.3.0a
Post by: Sutopia on May 23, 2021, 11:20:24 PM
a small itsy bitsy request for you @Sutopia

can the version name be on the file name instead?
I've used a lot of mods and version number/name after mods filename help on organizing

cheers
Not sure how to do that.
Do you mean folder name?
That's not possible because mod has unique id and smaller numbered ones are loaded first, preventing latest version (bigger number versions) from loading.

Or do you mean the 7z file name?
I ... hm, yeah, sure, I can do that next time. I'm just used to pack the local folder directly into 7z and ship it.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.3.0a
Post by: ZeroXSEED on May 23, 2021, 11:27:41 PM
Ah, there's no version for 0.91, that's sad. Good work on the mod though.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.3.0a
Post by: Mira Lendin on May 24, 2021, 12:30:43 AM
You should see how this mod performance with a fleet full of Astrals, it breaks the balance of the game
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.3.0a
Post by: Sutopia on May 24, 2021, 06:12:37 AM
You should see how this mod performance with a fleet full of Astrals, it breaks the balance of the game
Do you have a specific loadout I can look into?
I’m very curious how you can break the game with only 12~18 wings while condor can field more?
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.3.0a
Post by: PeachPatrol on May 24, 2021, 07:44:15 AM
I'm not entirely sure how to do that. I did add hullmods as built in to some vanilla hulls and marked all of them as "merc" so high end bounties should be using them occasionally.
If you know a better way doing this please let me know.

What I did was add
Spoiler
{
    "knownHullMods":{
        "hullMods":[
         "carriersafetyoverrides",
         "swarmcarrier",
         "bastioncarrier",
         "rushbcarrier",
         "rtscarrier",
         "carrierloadbalance",
         "fatfighters",
         "fightermorebomb",
         "emergencyfighters",
         "fighternoarmor",
        ],
    },
},
[close]
to world/faction/.faction files for all the factions (except pirates, or black markets will be swamped with them). This is for the last version so bastion is in there and fighterecm isn't. This will make it possible for factions to randomly select the mods for sale and for fits.

I also added tiers and increased prices in hull_mods.csv. I made the cores tier 3 so they feel rare, the others 1 so they appear in open market.

Edit: I forgot to mention you have to remove unlocked:TRUE in hull_mods.csv if you want mods to be sold/found. I kept Fighter Command Overclock as automatically unlocked. Removing unlocked:TRUE & giving the mods a tier automatically adds the hullmods to exploration lists.

Also: If you want factions to use the hullmods more often, you can make variants and add them to default_ship_roles.json. If they randomly select the variant (I'm not sure how to affect the probability) it'll force the hullmods onto generated fits. This is somewhat intrusive, but much less intrusive than building hullmods into hulls. You can also use variantOverrides in .faction files so different factions prefer different cores or hullmods.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.3.0a
Post by: Sutopia on May 24, 2021, 10:56:26 PM
I'm not entirely sure how to do that. I did add hullmods as built in to some vanilla hulls and marked all of them as "merc" so high end bounties should be using them occasionally.
If you know a better way doing this please let me know.

What I did was add
Spoiler
{
    "knownHullMods":{
        "hullMods":[
         "carriersafetyoverrides",
         "swarmcarrier",
         "bastioncarrier",
         "rushbcarrier",
         "rtscarrier",
         "carrierloadbalance",
         "fatfighters",
         "fightermorebomb",
         "emergencyfighters",
         "fighternoarmor",
        ],
    },
},
[close]
to world/faction/.faction files for all the factions (except pirates, or black markets will be swamped with them). This is for the last version so bastion is in there and fighterecm isn't. This will make it possible for factions to randomly select the mods for sale and for fits.

I also added tiers and increased prices in hull_mods.csv. I made the cores tier 3 so they feel rare, the others 1 so they appear in open market.

Edit: I forgot to mention you have to remove unlocked:TRUE in hull_mods.csv if you want mods to be sold/found. I kept Fighter Command Overclock as automatically unlocked. Removing unlocked:TRUE & giving the mods a tier automatically adds the hullmods to exploration lists.

Also: If you want factions to use the hullmods more often, you can make variants and add them to default_ship_roles.json. If they randomly select the variant (I'm not sure how to affect the probability) it'll force the hullmods onto generated fits. This is somewhat intrusive, but much less intrusive than building hullmods into hulls. You can also use variantOverrides in .faction files so different factions prefer different cores or hullmods.
Thanks a lot!
1.3.1 is up
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.3.1a
Post by: CrixM on May 25, 2021, 04:59:50 AM
I don't understand the point of skirmish carrier core. The majority of fighter weapons are already short ranged, making them even shorter will actually reduce the amount of time they're able to fire, even when near enemy ships. It seems to me it's sole purpose is to abuse travel times with dumbfire bombers.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.3.1a
Post by: dEVoRaTriX_LuX on May 25, 2021, 09:10:51 AM
Crash to desktop when accessing the market boards from the Stellar Networks 1.0.1 and searching for hull mod market locations. Modern carrier version is 1.3.1a

Code
10980481 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at org.sutopia.starsector.mod.moderncarrier.hullmods.core.SwarmCarrierCore.isApplicableToShip(SwarmCarrierCore.java:64)
at org.sutopia.starsector.mod.moderncarrier.hullmods.core.SwarmCarrierCore.getDescriptionParam(SwarmCarrierCore.java:58)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.campaign.impl.items.ModSpecItemPlugin.createTooltip(ModSpecItemPlugin.java:194)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.trade.CargoDataGridView$1.createImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.impl.StandardTooltipV2Expandable.create(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.impl.StandardTooltipV2Expandable.beforeShown(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.showTooltip(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Objectsuper.oÒ0000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Objectsuper.processInput(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.trade.CargoDataGridView.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.e$Oo.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.e.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.oOoO.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.E.I.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Oo0O.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.Oooo.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Oo0O.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.Stringsuper.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Oo0O.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.K.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Oo0O.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.Stringsuper.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.processInput(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.3.1a
Post by: Sutopia on May 25, 2021, 09:26:06 PM
Version 1.3.5a is up!
Check version log for full changes.

Crash to desktop when accessing the market boards from the Stellar Networks 1.0.1 and searching for hull mod market locations. Modern carrier version is 1.3.1a

Code
10980481 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException

This should be fixed by v1.3.5a! Thanks for reporting

I don't understand the point of skirmish carrier core. The majority of fighter weapons are already short ranged, making them even shorter will actually reduce the amount of time they're able to fire, even when near enemy ships. It seems to me it's sole purpose is to abuse travel times with dumbfire bombers.
It also provides carrier 2% zero flux speed boost threshold which means you'll be able to have the sweet +50 speed while setting fighters to engage.
The range penalty also applies to missiles so that's not the whole story. The initial intent is make some gunning fighters have so much speed that enemy AA would not be able to track. There are some mod bombers using one-off guns so I had to apply the penalty to all weapons to prevent bombers taking significant advantage out of this speed boost.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.3.5b
Post by: Arcagnello on May 26, 2021, 02:41:25 AM
I've actually been using Skirmish core (which later got integrated into the ship with a story point) on all my battlecarriers using Broadswords and It's great, really. I've more or less managed to obtain Thunder interceptor levels of fighter mobility across the battefield (minus the max range) with Heavy Fighters, and it's quite great for dealing with both frigates and phase ships with a quickness!

I also fully expect the hullmod to work a great deal when using things like Warthogs, but I have not tried that yet considering the fact I've got more expensive heavy/assault fighter options thanks to some additional mods.

I've noticed that the nerfs the Skirmish Core applies are mostly if not all mitigated by a level 6 officer having both Elite Point Defence and Elite Strike Commander, is this intended?
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.3.5b
Post by: Sutopia on May 26, 2021, 06:47:27 AM
I've actually been using Skirmish core (which later got integrated into the ship with a story point) on all my battlecarriers using Broadswords and It's great, really. I've more or less managed to obtain Thunder interceptor levels of fighter mobility across the battefield (minus the max range) with Heavy Fighters, and it's quite great for dealing with both frigates and phase ships with a quickness!

I also fully expect the hullmod to work a great deal when using things like Warthogs, but I have not tried that yet considering the fact I've got more expensive heavy/assault fighter options thanks to some additional mods.

I've noticed that the nerfs the Skirmish Core applies are mostly if not all mitigated by a level 6 officer having both Elite Point Defence and Elite Strike Commander, is this intended?

I have to be honest, no.
PD elite only extends PD range but the range reduction is applied after that so I wouldn’t call it mitigated.
Elite strike commander I guess just naturally makes gunning fighters good.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.3.6a
Post by: Sutopia on May 27, 2021, 12:06:51 AM
v1.3.6a is up
Ace is nerfed significantly, mainly regarding deck value.
If you ever find a fighter that seems extremely broken using Ace, please post the fighter and the hull here so I can analyze if there is an attribute oversight or was it the mod providing the fighter not doing a good job balancing.

Please note that the bonus provided is related to OP cost of the fighter, so it may be caused by mod having extremely underpriced fighter to exploit the bonus.
Especially many mods are abusing the support fighter category. Please refer to vanilla Xyphos wing strength and cost.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.3.7b
Post by: Sutopia on May 28, 2021, 09:59:00 PM
v1.3.7b is up
No longer possible to exploit S-mod then remove the requirement hullmod. Doing so will result in fighters immediately crash upon takeoff.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.3.7b
Post by: Arcagnello on May 29, 2021, 03:37:29 AM
Nice! Let me grab this one real quick before I play SS today  :)
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.3.7b
Post by: halloween20 on May 29, 2021, 09:32:16 AM
v1.3.7b is up
No longer possible to exploit S-mod then remove the requirement hullmod. Doing so will result in fighters immediately crash upon takeoff.
the "in game" version isn't updeated.
the launcher still says 1.3.7a

and one more thing... more a  question.
is it possible to remove the mod from an existing save?
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.3.7b
Post by: Sutopia on May 29, 2021, 11:54:56 AM
v1.3.7b is up
No longer possible to exploit S-mod then remove the requirement hullmod. Doing so will result in fighters immediately crash upon takeoff.
the "in game" version isn't updeated.
the launcher still says 1.3.7a

and one more thing... more a  question.
is it possible to remove the mod from an existing save?

No. Hullmods are considered content expansion and they get injected into save metadata upon saving (if you’re adding it to an ongoing save). Removing the mod after saving with the mod enabled will result in failure of loading save. (I learned this the hard way, even just adding a debug hullmod and didn’t actually use it the save can no longer live without the mod)
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.3.7c
Post by: The Soldier on May 29, 2021, 11:17:47 PM
It seems you can't have Swarm Carrier Core on ships that have built-in fighters? Sure, ships that only have built-in fighters should be disallowed from it, but there's a load of mod ships that have dedicated carriers with just one or two built-in wings and more free flight decks (ORA and Roiders mainly). Same idea for Ace, can't add it for those either.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.3.7c
Post by: Sutopia on May 30, 2021, 06:42:26 AM
It seems you can't have Swarm Carrier Core on ships that have built-in fighters? Sure, ships that only have built-in fighters should be disallowed from it, but there's a load of mod ships that have dedicated carriers with just one or two built-in wings and more free flight decks (ORA and Roiders mainly). Same idea for Ace, can't add it for those either.

Swarm relies on original deck count to apply penalty and I don’t really know how to count built-in.
Some mod offers a few built in wings and significantly buff them with unique hullmods, thus adding additional deck that would then take advantage of the hullmod will be extremely broken.
I need to re-evaluate how to deal with the built-in for swarm. I think what I can do instead is check if there exist any regular deck and use the remaining regular deck to calculate the malus.

Ace relies on the OP cost of the wing which if in extreme case where it’s got a tempest-similar super drone companion that counts 0OP it’ll be very broken.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.4.0a "Operation Tango"
Post by: Sutopia on May 30, 2021, 02:59:01 PM
V1.4.0 update released!
New Carrier Core "Support" is added (actively monitoring balance)

Pseudo historical mission "Operation Tango" is now available! Try it out. (Contains campaign spoiler)
Allowed Swarm core to be installed on hulls that has both built-in and standard fighter bay
Electronic Superiority is retired (functionally replaced)
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.4.0a "Operation Tango"
Post by: kaseywolf on May 30, 2021, 03:30:46 PM
V1.4.0 update released!
New Carrier Core "Support" is added (actively monitoring balance)

Pseudo historical mission "Operation Tango" is now available! Try it out. (Contains campaign spoiler)
Allowed Swarm core to be installed on hulls that has both built-in and standard fighter bay
Electronic Superiority is retired (functionally replaced)

Hey! i have a large number of mods. but i just added this one and the support core causes java to crash. i will list the error log here

161825 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Cleaned buffer for texture graphics/prv/ships/prv_fasklot.png (using cast)
161944 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Cleaned buffer for texture graphics/shadow_ships/ships/seski/ms_seski_L.png (using cast)
162159 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Error loading [org.sutopia.starsector.mod.moderncarrier.hullmods.core.SupportCarrierCore]
java.lang.RuntimeException: Error loading [org.sutopia.starsector.mod.moderncarrier.hullmods.core.SupportCarrierCore]
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore$3.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.sutopia.starsector.mod.moderncarrier.hullmods.core.SupportCarrierCore
   at org.codehaus.janino.JavaSourceClassLoader.findClass(JavaSourceClassLoader.java:179)
   at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
   ... 2 more
0    [main] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  - Starting Starsector 0.95a-RC15 launcher
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.4.0a "Operation Tango"
Post by: Sutopia on May 30, 2021, 04:00:44 PM
V1.4.0 update released!
New Carrier Core "Support" is added (actively monitoring balance)

Pseudo historical mission "Operation Tango" is now available! Try it out. (Contains campaign spoiler)
Allowed Swarm core to be installed on hulls that has both built-in and standard fighter bay
Electronic Superiority is retired (functionally replaced)

Hey! i have a large number of mods. but i just added this one and the support core causes java to crash. i will list the error log here

161825 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Cleaned buffer for texture graphics/prv/ships/prv_fasklot.png (using cast)
161944 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Cleaned buffer for texture graphics/shadow_ships/ships/seski/ms_seski_L.png (using cast)
162159 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Error loading [org.sutopia.starsector.mod.moderncarrier.hullmods.core.SupportCarrierCore]
java.lang.RuntimeException: Error loading [org.sutopia.starsector.mod.moderncarrier.hullmods.core.SupportCarrierCore]
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore$3.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.sutopia.starsector.mod.moderncarrier.hullmods.core.SupportCarrierCore
   at org.codehaus.janino.JavaSourceClassLoader.findClass(JavaSourceClassLoader.java:179)
   at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
   ... 2 more
0    [main] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  - Starting Starsector 0.95a-RC15 launcher


Ooooops I forgot to change the compiled jar file
Updated the file, please re-download
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.4.0a "Operation Tango"
Post by: halloween20 on May 30, 2021, 04:55:26 PM
Pseudo historical mission "Operation Tango" is now available! Try it out. (Contains campaign spoiler)

uhm... first of all, edit the pic in the spoiler. the size is to big to be shown her...

and can we have a info on the new core ?
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.4.0a "Operation Tango"
Post by: Sutopia on May 30, 2021, 05:12:54 PM
Pseudo historical mission "Operation Tango" is now available! Try it out. (Contains campaign spoiler)

uhm... first of all, edit the pic in the spoiler. the size is to big to be shown her...

and can we have a info on the new core ?

Updated info (was uploading screenshots and forgot to save post)

Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.4.0a "Operation Tango"
Post by: TimeDiver on May 30, 2021, 05:25:08 PM
Electronic Superiority is retired (functionally replaced)
So, wait... for those of us players Captains who already have the 'Electronic Superiority' hullmod installed on their carriers...

Is the old 'ecmfighters' id (from hull_mods.csv) being re-used for the Support Carrier Core?

Or is it now functionally blank (needs to be manually removed), then adding the Support Carrier Core?
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.4.0a "Operation Tango"
Post by: Sutopia on May 30, 2021, 05:35:04 PM
Electronic Superiority is retired (functionally replaced)
So, wait... for those of us players Captains who already have the 'Electronic Superiority' hullmod installed on their carriers...

Is the old 'ecmfighters' id (from hull_mods.csv) being re-used for the Support Carrier Core?

Or is it now functionally blank (needs to be manually removed), then adding the Support Carrier Core?

The function was untouched in case someone built it in.
The new support core is a brand new hullmod that will allow co-existing with the original ES but not with another core.




Wait. I just remembered that after hiding the hullmod from player it no longer count toward S-mod count.
um ... hm ... I'll just leave it be (same as bastion).
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.4.0b "Operation Tango"
Post by: dcong89 on May 30, 2021, 08:09:43 PM
hi ops ,did you disable Bomber External Hardpoint , i find it fun to go slow and bang bang but why !??
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.4.0c "Operation Tango"
Post by: Sutopia on May 30, 2021, 08:53:46 PM
hi ops ,did you disable Bomber External Hardpoint , i find it fun to go slow and bang bang but why !??
:'(
For some reason I hided the wrong hullmod
I really need some brain rest ...
1.4.0c is up
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.4.0c "Operation Tango"
Post by: Arcagnello on May 31, 2021, 01:29:30 AM
Warning, anecdotal experience on how to improve your sleep quality and day/night cycle below!
Spoiler
Brain rest is overrated, cutting on sugars caffeine and energy drinks is harder but will get you better results in the end, as your body will tend to return to a more natural sleep cycle; not to mention developing dependancies to either complex sugars, caffeine and Taurine (which is in most energy drinks, especially the Bull) more or less tanks your productivity without ingesting them.

I also began shutting off all electronic devices at least an hour before going to bed. Artificial light from screens tricks your body into staying awake longer by altering your biological day-night cycle. Going to bed and reading a book (if you don't have a significant other to "talk" with, giggle) will restore your biological habits overtime and get you back to sleeping 7-8 hours and with more Rem phase!
[close]

Downloaded the update, will let you know if I get any issues but I'm quite sure it's going to be alright :)

Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.4.0c "Operation Tango"
Post by: bob888w on May 31, 2021, 01:51:14 AM
I haven't updated for a week or so, but I'm not sure modern carriers is on the modchecker thing yet
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.4.0c "Operation Tango"
Post by: Sutopia on May 31, 2021, 07:49:50 AM
I haven't updated for a week or so, but I'm not sure modern carriers is on the modchecker thing yet

I added the version checker compatibility just now.
Hopefully I don't forget to update the file each time  8)
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.4.1a "Operation Tango"
Post by: Deshara on June 02, 2021, 11:29:45 AM
i just wanted to stop by to tell you that this is one of my favorite mods of all time. I normally find carriers to be quite underwhelming to play with bc there are no hullmods to adjust them to your playstyle, and not only does your mod fix that, but also your mod is one of the top most ambitious & extensive hullmod mods that doesn't shackle itself to adding a new faction in the process. It's incredibly vanilla friendly & I will 100% be using this every single time that I play the game again. 10/10, literally couldnt ask for a thing
... well, I could ask for 1 thing. Idk what manufactory load balance & targeting data link does lol their tooltips are a bit vague. Also, u mispelled "decrease" in fighter command overclock.
Playing with Flux Quantum Entanglement, Gunship & Armor Removal while piloting my ship as a mobile battery bank for my fighters in my astral is extremely fun
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.4.1a "Operation Tango"
Post by: Sutopia on June 02, 2021, 01:54:42 PM
i just wanted to stop by to tell you that this is one of my favorite mods of all time. I normally find carriers to be quite underwhelming to play with bc there are no hullmods to adjust them to your playstyle, and not only does your mod fix that, but also your mod is one of the top most ambitious & extensive hullmod mods that doesn't shackle itself to adding a new faction in the process. It's incredibly vanilla friendly & I will 100% be using this every single time that I play the game again. 10/10, literally couldnt ask for a thing
... well, I could ask for 1 thing. Idk what manufactory load balance & targeting data link does lol their tooltips are a bit vague. Also, u mispelled "decrease" in fighter command overclock.
Playing with Flux Quantum Entanglement, Gunship & Armor Removal while piloting my ship as a mobile battery bank for my fighters in my astral is extremely fun
Thank you for enjoying the mod!

Regarding some of the comments:
So it's a less known fact that all fighter bays have their individual replacement rate, but vanilla always sync them across the board.
With Load Balance, if you have multiple wings and one is heavily damaged while the other is not, it will suck all the replacement rate from the undamaged decks and move it to the one that needs replacement.
It also will show a combat UI to inform you all the decks' current active replacement rate.
I may consider buffing it by lowering it's OP cost since the effect is kind of niche, but it is insanely useful with Command Overclock when the replacement rate is actively sucked dry and fighter wings are gonna sit on a large reserve not dying, at least not as much as bombers.

I'll add a tooltip to show how much benefit you get from Targeting Data Link.
Basically it alone does nothing. But if your carrier installed an ITU, it gives the ITU range bonus to the fighter.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.4.1a "Operation Tango"
Post by: Deshara on June 02, 2021, 01:58:56 PM
ohh, so fighter wing replacement rate is boosted for every wing at 100% replacement?
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.4.1a "Operation Tango"
Post by: Sutopia on June 02, 2021, 02:47:07 PM
ohh, so fighter wing replacement rate is boosted for every wing at 100% replacement?

Not quite like that.

So for example you have a wing at 1/3 and another at 3/3. Your replacement rate shows 80%, it means the replacement clock for the first wing is ticking at only 80% speed.
However if you install the Load Balance, it shifts the rate from the second wing, the new replacement rate distribution will be 99% / 61%. Your damaged wing will be replacing at a much better speed but it cannot surpass the full speed (game limit).
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.4.1a "Operation Tango"
Post by: jlrperkins on June 04, 2021, 09:48:11 AM
Replacement rate may not go above 100 percent, but, can a hullmod apply a modifier to a fighter's replacement time (example, if a fighter's replacement time is 10 seconds, is it possible to cut it to half through a hullmod?)

Edit: another question, is it possible to use a hullmod to "fix" a fighter LPC to the ship? I am thinking of something like "Specialized Forge Vats", a hullmomd that sharply cuts a wing's replacement rate, at the cost of turning the wing into a "built-in" wing as long as the hullmod remains in place.

ohh, so fighter wing replacement rate is boosted for every wing at 100% replacement?

Not quite like that.

So for example you have a wing at 1/3 and another at 3/3. Your replacement rate shows 80%, it means the replacement clock for the first wing is ticking at only 80% speed.
However if you install the Load Balance, it shifts the rate from the second wing, the new replacement rate distribution will be 99% / 61%. Your damaged wing will be replacing at a much better speed but it cannot surpass the full speed (game limit).
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.4.1a "Operation Tango"
Post by: Sutopia on June 04, 2021, 10:27:45 AM
Replacement rate may not go above 100 percent, but, can a hullmod apply a modifier to a fighter's replacement time (example, if a fighter's replacement time is 10 seconds, is it possible to cut it to half through a hullmod?)

Edit: another question, is it possible to use a hullmod to "fix" a fighter LPC to the ship? I am thinking of something like "Specialized Forge Vats", a hullmomd that sharply cuts a wing's replacement rate, at the cost of turning the wing into a "built-in" wing as long as the hullmod remains in place.

As of replacement boost, the revamped hullmod Advanced Fighter Command should fulfill your need

Built in wing would require making a hullspec on the fly which I haven’t find a way to do it. There was an attempt to remove wings from built in but did not succeed. However you may be asking for Ace carrier core? The interceptor and support wing bonus do have huge replacement speed boost.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.4.1a "Operation Tango"
Post by: jlrperkins on June 04, 2021, 10:39:05 AM
I was actually thinking of suggesting an idea that would play somewhat similar to the Manufactory Load Balance hullmod, something like "Streamlined Manufactory". The rough idea is: if you had an intact wing and a damaged wing, the intact wing would apply a reduction to the replacement time of the damaged wing, but only if they were the same fighter model. For example, in a carrier with three Broadsword wings, with two intact wings and a damaged wing, the damaged wing would have its replacement time cut by around two thirds. If there were two damaged wings and one intact, the damaged wings would have their replacement time cut by around one third.

The in-game rationale would be that, if you have several forge vats set to produce the same fighter model, why not pool their production to accelerate the assemby of replacements?

Replacement rate may not go above 100 percent, but, can a hullmod apply a modifier to a fighter's replacement time (example, if a fighter's replacement time is 10 seconds, is it possible to cut it to half through a hullmod?)

Edit: another question, is it possible to use a hullmod to "fix" a fighter LPC to the ship? I am thinking of something like "Specialized Forge Vats", a hullmomd that sharply cuts a wing's replacement rate, at the cost of turning the wing into a "built-in" wing as long as the hullmod remains in place.

As of replacement boost, the revamped hullmod Advanced Fighter Command should fulfill your need

Built in wing would require making a hullspec on the run which I haven’t find a way to do it. There was an attempt to remove wings from built in but did not succeed. However you may be asking for Ace carrier core? The interceptor and support wing bonus do have huge replacement speed boost.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.4.2a "Operation Tango"
Post by: Sutopia on June 04, 2021, 11:06:11 AM
That sounds like combining the functionality of load balancer and advanced fighter command.
However, advanced fighter command do work on a one-wing setup, so I’m not entirely convinced to retire one and merge the functionality.
It also kind of overlaps with DA’s wanzer service hullmod where all wanzer wings get doubled replacement speed if the carrier is loaded with only wanzer wings.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.4.2a "Operation Tango"
Post by: jlrperkins on June 04, 2021, 11:39:20 AM
Agree, there's a good deal of functionality overlap between my idea and load balancer. My thought is that load balancer caters to fighter complements that lean towards versatility (fighters, bombers, supports, etc) while my idea would cater to mono-hull complements that sacrifice versatility in exchange for super fast replacements. Maybe make them mutually exclusive?

That sounds like combining the functionality of load balancer and advanced fighter command.
However, advanced fighter command do work on a one-wing setup, so I’m not entirely convinced to retire one and merge the functionality.
It also kind of overlaps with DA’s wanzer service hullmod where all wanzer wings get doubled replacement speed if the carrier is loaded with only wanzer wings.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.5.0a "Tooltips"
Post by: CrimsonPhalanx on June 05, 2021, 05:01:12 AM
the "if this is not an S mod and this warning is appearing please contact mod author" message is appearing when I hover over other carrier cores when I have selected and equipped one, along with the "can not be installed due to ship being heavily modified"

Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.5.0a "Tooltips"
Post by: Arcagnello on June 05, 2021, 05:13:16 AM
How about a simple Missile Hullmod called "Combat Rated Missile Autoforges" affecting both fighter LPCs and the Parent Ship that
1)reduces ammo on all missile weapons with limited, non-regenarating amounts to just the one salvo
2)Have said Missile Weapons with previously limited ammo regenerate the one salvo at something like 300% that weapon's reload time?

It would have a consistent effect on all missile weapons with limited ammo and not affect the ones already coming with infinite ammo. You may want to make the new reload time nerf even higher to compensate for the use (and abuse) of Elite Missile Specialization skill tough.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.5.0a "Tooltips"
Post by: Sutopia on June 05, 2021, 08:06:22 AM
the "if this is not an S mod and this warning is appearing please contact mod author" message is appearing when I hover over other carrier cores when I have selected and equipped one, along with the "can not be installed due to ship being heavily modified"

Oh, it’s... I should rephrase it.

I have added anti-smod-cheese that if you add a hullmod (converted hangar for example), s-mod ace core, and remove the hangar. It should make Ace core invalid so in such cases all fighters will crash on take-off.

However there may be oversight of such mechanism that would cause a legit installed hullmod description to apply the punishment so the text is there. From what you described it’s not... exactly the case, you haven’t use any vodoo to install a hullmod then remove its requirements.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.5.0a "Tooltips"
Post by: Sutopia on June 05, 2021, 08:11:39 AM
How about a simple Missile Hullmod called "Combat Rated Missile Autoforges" affecting both fighter LPCs and the Parent Ship that
1)reduces ammo on all missile weapons with limited, non-regenarating amounts to just the one salvo
2)Have said Missile Weapons with previously limited ammo regenerate the one salvo at something like 300% that weapon's reload time?

It would have a consistent effect on all missile weapons with limited ammo and not affect the ones already coming with infinite ammo. You may want to make the new reload time nerf even higher to compensate for the use (and abuse) of Elite Missile Specialization skill tough.
So murder hurricane and hurray long bow / dagger?
I don’t think that’s quite reasonable as it’s just a better external hardpoint.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.5.0a "Tooltips"
Post by: Arcagnello on June 05, 2021, 08:32:46 AM
I don't quite remember what the reload time is for the Hurricane, but installing that hullmod would give it a reload time of one minute if it had 20 seconds of normal reload time (would be 30 seconds with Elite Missile Specialization). Sabots SRM pods on the Longbow also have quite a hefty reload time too, so it would serverely hamper the sabot spam capability as opposed to just landing back to the carrier and delivering more ordnance.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.5.0b "Tooltips"
Post by: Anexgohan on June 05, 2021, 08:43:28 AM
Hello,
Why are there 2 folders in the download?
Modern Carrier
Modern Carrier +

which one do I need to install?
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.5.0b "Tooltips"
Post by: Arcagnello on June 05, 2021, 08:45:13 AM
Hello,
Why are there 2 folders in the download?
Modern Carrier
Modern Carrier +

which one do I need to install?

From the Original Post:
About S Addition
S Addition is a utility mod in folder Modern Carrier +

  • Prometheus Mk2 now has Fighter Command Overclock as built in, making it significantly more dangerous
  • Spark Interceptor now has 2 burst PD laser (high delay) instead of 1
  • All vanilla remnants and Astrals get Advanced Carrier Core as built in
  • All vanilla station hangar modules receives a Carrier Core and a Modern Carrier hullmod that fits the tech theme
  • Remnant station has 4 fighter related hullmods installed including Targeting Data Link and Advanced Carrier Core so be aware


Welcome to the forum by the way @Anexgohan, make sure to hang around at a local bar with us sometimes  ;)
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.5.0a "Tooltips"
Post by: Sutopia on June 05, 2021, 08:53:10 AM
I don't quite remember what the reload time is for the Hurricane, but installing that hullmod would give it a reload time of one minute if it had 20 seconds of normal reload time (would be 30 seconds with Elite Missile Specialization). Sabots SRM pods on the Longbow also have quite a hefty reload time too, so it would serverely hamper the sabot spam capability as opposed to just landing back to the carrier and delivering more ordnance.

Long bow uses single shot sabot which has a whopping 1.0 second re-arm time. That was the reason the 2.5 seconds minimum re-fire delay was added, it's otherwise total abomination.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.5.0a "Tooltips"
Post by: Arcagnello on June 05, 2021, 09:02:35 AM
I don't quite remember what the reload time is for the Hurricane, but installing that hullmod would give it a reload time of one minute if it had 20 seconds of normal reload time (would be 30 seconds with Elite Missile Specialization). Sabots SRM pods on the Longbow also have quite a hefty reload time too, so it would serverely hamper the sabot spam capability as opposed to just landing back to the carrier and delivering more ordnance.

Long bow uses single shot sabot which has a whopping 1.0 second re-arm time. That was the reason the 2.5 seconds minimum re-fire delay was added, it's otherwise total abomination.

Oh, forgot about that one. Good catch  :)

What about modifying the "Combat Rated Missile Autoforges" hullmods this way then:
Hullmod: Combat Rated Missile Autoforges
1)reduces ammo on all missile weapons with limited, non-regenarating amounts to just the one salvo
2)increases refire time by 100% of the original value and adds an additional 15 seconds of reload ontop of it
3)All limited ammo missile weapons reload their full single salvo every reload. (Squall reloads just 20 missiles, Typhoon launcher reloads 2, Hammer barrage reloads 4, etcetera)
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.5.0a "Tooltips"
Post by: Sutopia on June 05, 2021, 09:41:59 AM
Oh, forgot about that one. Good catch  :)

What about modifying the "Combat Rated Missile Autoforges" hullmods this way then:
Hullmod: Combat Rated Missile Autoforges
1)reduces ammo on all missile weapons with limited, non-regenarating amounts to just the one salvo
2)increases refire time by 100% of the original value and adds an additional 15 seconds of reload ontop of it
3)All limited ammo missile weapons reload their full single salvo every reload. (Squall reloads just 20 missiles, Typhoon launcher reloads 2, Hammer barrage reloads 4, etcetera)

That sounds interesting but I would say it’s... out of scope and over-complicated. A limited ammo missile by its nature should have limited ammo and the balance is totally designed around that. Ammo capacity, salvo size, rearm time and damage per hit all varies. This design will heavily favor the burst damage missiles that has relatively low capacity and probably make the missiles hard to use due to extended reload time. Maybe it’ll be more suitable for MHM expansion?
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.5.0a "Tooltips"
Post by: Arcagnello on June 05, 2021, 09:43:13 AM
Oh, forgot about that one. Good catch  :)

What about modifying the "Combat Rated Missile Autoforges" hullmods this way then:
Hullmod: Combat Rated Missile Autoforges
1)reduces ammo on all missile weapons with limited, non-regenarating amounts to just the one salvo
2)increases refire time by 100% of the original value and adds an additional 15 seconds of reload ontop of it
3)All limited ammo missile weapons reload their full single salvo every reload. (Squall reloads just 20 missiles, Typhoon launcher reloads 2, Hammer barrage reloads 4, etcetera)

That sounds interesting but I would say it’s... out of scope and over-complicated. A limited ammo missile by its nature should have limited ammo and the balance is totally designed around that. Ammo capacity, salvo size, rearm time and damage per hit all varies. This design will heavily favor the burst damage missiles that has relatively low capacity and probably make the missiles hard to use due to extended reload time. Maybe it’ll be more suitable for MHM expansion?

Noted, I'll post it there eventually!
Thanks for the brainstorming anyway tough, it's been good  ;D
Also, Skirmish Carrier core on beam-based battlecarriers with more flux dissipation than both shield upkeep and weapons is just damn fine, let me tell you that :)
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.5.0b "Tooltips"
Post by: Anexgohan on June 05, 2021, 09:49:23 AM
Quote
Welcome to the forum by the way @Anexgohan, make sure to hang around at a local bar with us sometimes  ;)
thanks for reply, I'm having an issue installing this with vortex, only Modern Carrier gets installed but Modern Carrier + does not.
I did install it manually to fix it.
But I think it would be better for others to either know this or you may have to split the download into two separate links.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.5.0a "Tooltips"
Post by: Deshara on June 05, 2021, 12:22:17 PM
How about a simple Missile Hullmod called "Combat Rated Missile Autoforges" affecting both fighter LPCs and the Parent Ship that
1)reduces ammo on all missile weapons with limited, non-regenarating amounts to just the one salvo
2)Have said Missile Weapons with previously limited ammo regenerate the one salvo at something like 300% that weapon's reload time?

It would have a consistent effect on all missile weapons with limited ammo and not affect the ones already coming with infinite ammo. You may want to make the new reload time nerf even higher to compensate for the use (and abuse) of Elite Missile Specialization skill tough.

i want this mod for my ships!! lmfao
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.5.0b "Tooltips"
Post by: Profit Prophet on June 06, 2021, 01:56:24 PM
Hey, Sutopia first I want to say that I've been having a great time with this mod, the hullmods add quite a bit of complexity for carriers and make carrier loadouts much more interesting!

Second is that I think I've encountered a bug. For context, if you build a carrier core into a civilian ship but then remove the militarized subsystems, the carrier core stays as it is built-in, but all fighters launched from the ship will be immediately broken and must endlessly enter a refit > launch > break > refit cycle, this makes sense to me and I'm assuming is intended.

But I also noticed this issue with my high-tech battle station when I was defending my colony. All the fighters from the station were also stuck in the endless loop and as a result, they were useless and could not fight. I was running on the 1.4 version of the mod when this occurred but I haven't had a chance to see the station in another fight after updating to 1.5 so I'm just posting this here just in case its not been noted yet. worse case I can just disable the S Addition since I'm assuming the "All vanilla station hangar modules receives a Carrier Core" is causing the issue.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.5.0b "Tooltips"
Post by: Sutopia on June 06, 2021, 04:27:54 PM
Hey, Sutopia first I want to say that I've been having a great time with this mod, the hullmods add quite a bit of complexity for carriers and make carrier loadouts much more interesting!

Second is that I think I've encountered a bug. For context, if you build a carrier core into a civilian ship but then remove the militarized subsystems, the carrier core stays as it is built-in, but all fighters launched from the ship will be immediately broken and must endlessly enter a refit > launch > break > refit cycle, this makes sense to me and I'm assuming is intended.

But I also noticed this issue with my high-tech battle station when I was defending my colony. All the fighters from the station were also stuck in the endless loop and as a result, they were useless and could not fight. I was running on the 1.4 version of the mod when this occurred but I haven't had a chance to see the station in another fight after updating to 1.5 so I'm just posting this here just in case its not been noted yet. worse case I can just disable the S Addition since I'm assuming the "All vanilla station hangar modules receives a Carrier Core" is causing the issue.

That’s all very correct. In fact, I think when you mouse over a S-mod that got requirement hullmod removed it should show the warning message about the “malfunction”. It was indeed designed to prevent cheese. If the warning doesn’t appear it is then a bug.

About the station, however, that’s pretty hard to troubleshoot, since you can’t check its hullmod load out.
The instant crash penalty check has been constantly updating to prevent unintentional incidents like this so if you can check it working in current version and report the result I appreciate it.
If it’s still having the issue I would indeed suggest temporarily disable the S Addition and I’ll look into it.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.5.0b "Tooltips"
Post by: Profit Prophet on June 07, 2021, 12:19:13 PM
Seems the like issue still exists in the latest version, I was attacking a high-tech battle station this time and all of the fighters were stuck in the endless refit loop. Not sure if this info is relevant to the bug but in both cases, the battle stations were using fighters from the "arma armatura" mod and not vanilla LPCs. For now ill disable the S addition addon, hopefully this issue isn't too much of a pain for you to fix.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.5.0b "Tooltips"
Post by: Sutopia on June 07, 2021, 08:36:16 PM
Seems the like issue still exists in the latest version, I was attacking a high-tech battle station this time and all of the fighters were stuck in the endless refit loop. Not sure if this info is relevant to the bug but in both cases, the battle stations were using fighters from the "arma armatura" mod and not vanilla LPCs. For now ill disable the S addition addon, hopefully this issue isn't too much of a pain for you to fix.

The fix is up!

Also modified External Hardpoint to be more accessible for slower bombers, but less powerful
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.5.1b "Tooltips"
Post by: Profit Prophet on June 07, 2021, 11:11:37 PM
thanks for the update! Looking forward to using S additions when I play tomorrow
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.5.2a
Post by: Sutopia on June 10, 2021, 07:32:38 PM
v1.5.2a is up, mainly regarding Ace Carrier Core balance
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.5.2a
Post by: Yunru on June 10, 2021, 11:13:15 PM
How about a simple Missile Hullmod called "Combat Rated Missile Autoforges" affecting both fighter LPCs and the Parent Ship that
1)reduces ammo on all missile weapons with limited, non-regenarating amounts to just the one salvo
2)Have said Missile Weapons with previously limited ammo regenerate the one salvo at something like 300% that weapon's reload time?

It would have a consistent effect on all missile weapons with limited ammo and not affect the ones already coming with infinite ammo. You may want to make the new reload time nerf even higher to compensate for the use (and abuse) of Elite Missile Specialization skill tough.
Sounds like it would eliminate the Gryphon's (and the Guardian's) whole shtick.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.5.2a
Post by: Deshara on June 11, 2021, 12:10:28 AM
I'd still run this on the gryphon, it only gets a single use of its ship system. Maybe it could be implemented in a way that allows the gryphon the ability to use its ship system to get a fully loaded rack of missiles, but otherwise is left with 1 salvo at a time?
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.5.2a
Post by: Aerensiniac on June 12, 2021, 06:23:25 AM
Yo. I think i ran into an error linked to this mod. There is a minor equipment cache containing a mod and if move the cursor over it, the game instantly crashes.
Log recorded the following error:

Quote
126358 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at org.sutopia.starsector.mod.moderncarrier.hullmods.regular.DataTargetingLink.get DescriptionParam(DataTargetingLink.java:45)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.campaign.impl.items.ModSpecItemPlugin.createTooltip(ModSpecItemPlugin.java:192)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.trade.CargoDataGridView$1.createImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.impl.StandardTooltipV2Expandable.create(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.impl.StandardTooltipV2Expandable.beforeShown(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.showTooltip(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Objectsuper.oÒ0000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Objectsuper.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.trade.CargoDataGridView.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.e$Oo.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.e.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.oOoO.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.coreui.k.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.class.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Oo0O.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.K.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Oo0O.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.Stringsuper.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

The issue is definitely related to the info window that opens when you hover the mouse over the item.
I tried to right click it instantly so there is no time for the info panel to open and the game did not crash. The item in question was Targeting Data Link.
Didnt encounter any other problems yet in my playthrough and been at it for a week. Its a nice mod, offers some serious options to tinker with builds. Thanks for your work.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.5.2a
Post by: Sutopia on June 12, 2021, 09:51:23 PM
Yo. I think i ran into an error linked to this mod. There is a minor equipment cache containing a mod and if move the cursor over it, the game instantly crashes.
Log recorded the following error:

Quote
126358 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at org.sutopia.starsector.mod.moderncarrier.hullmods.regular.DataTargetingLink.get DescriptionParam(DataTargetingLink.java:45)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.campaign.impl.items.ModSpecItemPlugin.createTooltip(ModSpecItemPlugin.java:192)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.trade.CargoDataGridView$1.createImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.impl.StandardTooltipV2Expandable.create(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.impl.StandardTooltipV2Expandable.beforeShown(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.showTooltip(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Objectsuper.oÒ0000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Objectsuper.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.trade.CargoDataGridView.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.e$Oo.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.e.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.oOoO.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.coreui.k.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.class.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Oo0O.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.K.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Oo0O.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.Stringsuper.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00O.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

The issue is definitely related to the info window that opens when you hover the mouse over the item.
I tried to right click it instantly so there is no time for the info panel to open and the game did not crash. The item in question was Targeting Data Link.
Didnt encounter any other problems yet in my playthrough and been at it for a week. Its a nice mod, offers some serious options to tinker with builds. Thanks for your work.

I think you're using an outdated version?
Try delete the old version and unpack the mod fresh.
From the crash log, it says
DataTargetingLink.get DescriptionParam(DataTargetingLink.java:45)
But in latest version line 45 is empty.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.6.0a
Post by: Damienov on June 22, 2021, 05:51:38 AM
wow didn't know there is a new update until playing the game after 15 minutes of starting and loading all the mods lol

and at time of posting this thread is way at page 4, I wonder why it didn't get bumped to the first page when you edit/updated the first post
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.6.0a
Post by: The Soldier on June 22, 2021, 09:13:16 AM
wow didn't know there is a new update until playing the game after 15 minutes of starting and loading all the mods lol

and at time of posting this thread is way at page 4, I wonder why it didn't get bumped to the first page when you edit/updated the first post
We're mostly giving Sutopia headaches about the balance of his mod over the community Discord these days, heh.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.6.0a
Post by: Sutopia on June 22, 2021, 01:52:28 PM
wow didn't know there is a new update until playing the game after 15 minutes of starting and loading all the mods lol

and at time of posting this thread is way at page 4, I wonder why it didn't get bumped to the first page when you edit/updated the first post
We're mostly giving Sutopia headaches about the balance of his mod over the community Discord these days, heh.

It’s mainly about Ace core be exceptionally good for a random subset of fighters for any given version. I can see how it was broken as 30OP flat and people just S-mod it in to mitigate the cost completely, so that’s why it’s like this at the moment: you get what you paid for.

But it still doesn’t feel right... maybe I’ll do a flat % increase across the board instead... but I don’t want to invalidate multiple deck giving additional value and smaller ships definitely can’t afford as much Op as larger ones.

The main purpose of Ace core is to empower lower deck count carriers or combat carrier to have more fighter power at a price, and I don’t want the price be completely mitigated by S mod; nor do I want to completely invalidate Astrals from using it but generally shouldn’t be superior to Swarm core for those scenarios.

Since so many people has built it in I also want to keep the base price at slightly higher end instead of making it cheap then move all the cost as flat fighter cost nor do I want to make it not S-moddable. It’s just... hard to balance.

Fun fact: drover with warthog Op cost is unchanged if you didn’t build it in.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.6.1a
Post by: The Soldier on June 30, 2021, 11:41:21 AM
Any chance that Support Carrier Core might be able to work with ship system drones?
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.6.1a
Post by: Sutopia on June 30, 2021, 12:01:01 PM
Any chance that Support Carrier Core might be able to work with ship system drones?

Is there a specific ship you’re looking at?
All vanilla ships have removed drones and replaced it with built in wings. The station drones are classified as frigates instead of fighters so they don’t get the bonus at all. I don’t think it’ll be updated unless there is a use case that make sense.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.6.1a
Post by: The Soldier on June 30, 2021, 12:24:43 PM
There's a number of mod ships that make use of ship system drones for one purpose or another, but the one that comes most to mind it the Mayasuran Argentavis - this one in particular since it's powerful but has limited charges and the AI doesn't know how to cycle drones to repair them. Not particularly widespread, but the use is there.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.6.1a
Post by: Sutopia on June 30, 2021, 12:28:02 PM
There's a number of mod ships that make use of ship system drones for one purpose or another, but the one that comes most to mind it the Mayasuran Argentavis - this one in particular since it's powerful but has limited charges and the AI doesn't know how to cycle drones to repair them. Not particularly widespread, but the use is there.
Is there a particular reason why it’s not replaced with a long replacement time built in wing - would be the proper question. As you mentioned, AIs don’t really know how to control drones if at all.
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.6.1a
Post by: megabot on July 11, 2021, 03:45:06 AM
sorry for asking but would you giving the details for what modern carriers + does exactly? i am unsure of what it does exactly to be honest
Title: Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.6.1a
Post by: Sutopia on July 11, 2021, 08:40:19 AM
sorry for asking but would you giving the details for what modern carriers + does exactly? i am unsure of what it does exactly to be honest

About S Addition
S Addition is a utility mod in folder Modern Carrier +

  • Prometheus Mk2 now has Fighter Command Overclock as built in, making it significantly more dangerous
  • Spark Interceptor now has 2 burst PD laser (high delay) instead of 1
  • All vanilla remnants and Astrals get Advanced Carrier as built in
  • All vanilla station hangar modules receives a Carrier Core and a Modern Carrier hullmod that fits the tech theme
  • Remnant station has 5 fighter related hullmods installed including Targeting Data Link and Advanced Carrier so be aware
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