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Starsector => General Discussion => Topic started by: KopiG on April 14, 2021, 03:35:32 AM

Title: Best missile ship to pilot yourself?
Post by: KopiG on April 14, 2021, 03:35:32 AM
So Im looking for the best of the best :D Meaning it has a ton of Ordnance points and many Large Missile slots. I have not seen very good missile ships yet. Maybe I havent discovered them all.
Whats your best missile ship?
Title: Re: Best missile ship to pilot yourself?
Post by: Arcagnello on April 14, 2021, 04:00:31 AM
Quote from: KopiG on April 14, 2021, 03:35:32 AM
So Im looking for the best of the best :D Meaning it has a ton of Ordnance points and many Large Missile slots. I have not seen very good missile ships yet. Maybe I havent discovered them all.
Whats your best missile ship?

You don't really have many options here, there really is only 1 dedicated missile ship that's above destroyer size, and that's the Griphon!

The Gryphon is worth 20 Deployment Points, already comes with Expanded Missile Racks and carries One large Missile hardpoint (front facing), 2 medium Missile Hardpoints (side mounted) and 3 Small missile hardpoints (front facing). And that is not all, it even comes with a unique ship skill called "Missile Autoforge" wich fully replenishes all the missile ammo in the ship!

Ship Setup:
Weapons:One Hammer Barrage on the large missile slot, two Sabot SRMs on the medium missile mounts, 3 Annihalator Rocket Pods on the small missile mounts, vulcans and a dual flak on the rest of the mounts
Suggested Hullmods to Integrate: ECCM, Hardened Shields (Rockets and sabots will fly faster, Shield ratio is gonna be great and you can tank while you blast the enemy)
Addittional Hullmods you might consider: Unstable Injector (for the ship to go around faster on the battlefield to reposition more frequently and retreat with more ease)
Rest of the ordinance points: distribute it in a 1:1 ratio betwen vents and capacitors, the Gryphon has really bad stock dissipation and just putting it all in vents will result in absurdly long vent times, leaving you extremely vulnerable.

Playstile: Play with the ship control mode pointing the ship where your mouse is at, drive up to the enemy until it's in Sabot range, fire the Sabots to stress/overload shields, then just keep blasting it with rockets (both Hammer Barrage and the three Annihalator rockets should stay in the same weapon group and LINKED) until it inevitably dies. It also works if you swap the Hammer Barrage for a Cyclone Reaper Launcher but I found that one is a lot easier for the enemy to shoot down, altough I will say the Cyclone Reaper Launcher has A LOT MORE AMMO.

Alternatively: Integrate Safety Overrides/Hardened Shields then also add Hardened Subsystems and maybe even Unstable injector
Same weapon setup, but now you balance vents and capacitors with a 1:2 ratio since vents have DOUBLE Tthe dissipation effect when the ship is overridden.
The result of this setup is an unholy monstrosity with near frigade levels of mobility that can do the same the previous setup does, only MUCH FASTER and with a lot more aggression, at the cost of reduced Peak Performance Time and the inability to actively vent.

It can obviously work without integrating any hullmod, but I would scrounge up two or even three story points for it considering it may just be your player ship AND also stay with you until endgame.

Important sidenote: If you plan on letting the AI pilot it make sure to swap that dual flak for a Hypervelocity Driver, since the cruiser AI of this game does not keep the Gryphon at a distance if it has no offensive ballistic weapons (like it damn should, please help me Alex) and will actively try and get into range of the enemy to shoot it with its point defence  ::)


Post Scriptum: There are capital ships with a lot of missile weapons but I wouldn't exactly call them "missile ships" wich are the Conquest, the Odissey and the XIV Battlegroup Legion. Open up another thread on the forum if you want setup suggestions on those if you get any of them!
Title: Re: Best missile ship to pilot yourself?
Post by: Fenrir on April 14, 2021, 04:07:51 AM
In vanilla the most efficient hull size to be used as main force at current version is cruisers and battlecruisers, durable, powerful and highly mobile. The only missile-dedicated hulls in vanilla are Vigilance and Gryphon, Vigilance is a frigate so it doesn't count, Gryphon is quite a hive of missiles that launch swarms adds the ability to reload in battle. If a missile heavy but not dedicated ship is also fine for you, I high recommend check both the battlecruisers and all high tech cruisers out, they all can all be refitted with missile heavy loads.
Title: Re: Best missile ship to pilot yourself?
Post by: Arcagnello on April 14, 2021, 04:11:43 AM
Quote from: Fenrir on April 14, 2021, 04:07:51 AM
In vanilla the most efficient hull size to be used as main force at current version is cruisers and battlecruisers, durable, powerful and highly mobile. The only missile-dedicated hulls in vanilla are Vigilance and Gryphon, Vigilance is a frigate so it doesn't count, Gryphon is quite a hive of missiles that launch swarms adds the ability to reload in battle. If a missile heavy but not dedicated ship is also fine for you, I high recommend check both the battlecruisers and all high tech cruisers out, they all can all be refitted with missile heavy loads.

You know I was this close to also mentioning the Overridden, Sabot MRM Aurora of death but as much as I'd want to that sensual, asymmetric hull is more of an unholy facemelter than a dedicated missile ship.
Title: Re: Best missile ship to pilot yourself?
Post by: Fenrir on April 14, 2021, 04:17:53 AM
Quote from: Arcagnello on April 14, 2021, 04:11:43 AM
You know I was this close to also mentioning the Overridden, Sabot MRM Aurora of death but as much as I'd want to that sensual, asymmetric hull is more of an unholy facemelter than a dedicated missile ship.
Unluckily by very different aesthetic concept symmetric hulls are dull and lifeless in my eyes lmao. People do have different opinions, and I believe it's good for both diversity and fun. Cheers. :D
Title: Re: Best missile ship to pilot yourself?
Post by: Flying Birdy on April 14, 2021, 04:58:09 AM
Quote from: KopiG on April 14, 2021, 03:35:32 AM
So Im looking for the best of the best :D Meaning it has a ton of Ordnance points and many Large Missile slots. I have not seen very good missile ships yet. Maybe I havent discovered them all.
Whats your best missile ship?

Odyssey is an amazing missile ship. If you fire your sabots while using plasma burn, the Sabots instantly reach stage two and are essentially undodgeable for enemies. If you time it correct, your triple Sabots always hits shields. Additionally,  Odyssey has a built-in ECCM which improves speed and tracking. If you combine the built-in ECCM with the missile skill perk and a Hurricane MIRV, there is a hilarious interaction - some of the MIRV stage two missiles that miss will continue to turn around and track even AFTER they have flown past their target.
Title: Re: Best missile ship to pilot yourself?
Post by: Low Settings on April 14, 2021, 05:31:39 AM
Conquest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_D9TYC7IWI
Don't mind the front shields, I'm a noob
Yes they were retreating I'm bad
Title: Re: Best missile ship to pilot yourself?
Post by: KopiG on April 14, 2021, 07:28:54 AM
So the best ship has only 1 Large 2 Medium and 3 Small missile hardpoints.
 :(
Title: Re: Best missile ship to pilot yourself?
Post by: Warhunterpro on April 14, 2021, 08:22:22 AM
gryphon is the best "dedicated" missile boat. with its missile forge that fully replenishes your missile ammo
and many of the capital ships tend to have a few large slots
odyssey 1large 3medium
atlas mk2 2large
astral 2large
conquest 2large 2medium
legion 5medium
legion XIV 2large

but theres no dedicated capital missile boat
Title: Re: Best missile ship to pilot yourself?
Post by: Hatter on April 14, 2021, 08:44:38 AM
Quote from: Arcagnello on April 14, 2021, 04:00:31 AM
Quote from: KopiG on April 14, 2021, 03:35:32 AM
So Im looking for the best of the best :D Meaning it has a ton of Ordnance points and many Large Missile slots. I have not seen very good missile ships yet. Maybe I havent discovered them all.
Whats your best missile ship?

You don't really have many options here, there really is only 1 dedicated missile ship that's above destroyer size, and that's the Griphon!


This is Falcon (P) erasure and I will not stand for it.
Title: Re: Best missile ship to pilot yourself?
Post by: Thaago on April 14, 2021, 09:10:14 AM
Quote from: KopiG on April 14, 2021, 07:28:54 AM
So the best ship has only 1 Large 2 Medium and 3 Small missile hardpoints.
 :(

Unfortunately this is this is the case, because missiles are the most powerful weapons in the game; on top of their large spikes of damage they are flux free to fire.

As a side note, a backline support gryphon with an officer can bring 198 total Harpoons/Sabots in its small and medium racks and still has the large mount for either 60 hurricanes or 600 squalls or 3600 locusts.
Title: Re: Best missile ship to pilot yourself?
Post by: TaLaR on April 14, 2021, 09:23:55 AM
Quote from: Thaago on April 14, 2021, 09:10:14 AM
because missiles are the most powerful weapons in the game

For short AI vs AI fights. A player on receiving end can usually reduce missile efficiency by quite a lot, AI simply doesn't try to counter them. And in long fights missiles simply run out.
Title: Re: Best missile ship to pilot yourself?
Post by: Anvel on April 14, 2021, 09:28:08 AM
Behold the missile god - 3 big 3 meds (small on my ship) launchers plus a bunch of other weapons and fighter wings.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/mRTmO3p.png)
[close]
It's a complete end-game ship, more so you need to be lucky to get all those weapons from drops, yet nothing can survive its strikes, super missiles regenerate but consume soft flux.
Title: Re: Best missile ship to pilot yourself?
Post by: pairedeciseaux on April 14, 2021, 10:05:26 AM
Gryphon and Pirate Falcon are solid choices.

I'm not sure about Vigilance, haven't tried it since... probably my first 0.8.1 campaign. I guess Vigilance provides an early game solution for a player really into missiles, though personally I would probably use Shrike or Pirate Shrike instead for the medium missile slot. That said, maybe Wolfpack Tactics applied to a bunch of Vigilance (+escort ?!) is effective in 0.95.

With an open mind, you may also consider other ships that are not pure missile boats but allow good synergy of their missile payloads with their non missile weapons and/or have plenty of missile launcher slots, such as : Enforcer, Dominator, Onslaught, Fury and Champion. And people have already mentioned Aurora, Conquest, Legion, Legion XIV, Odyssey, Atlas mk2 and Astral.

These may not be "best missile ships", but they certainly can put missiles to good use. In a player-controlled ship, the amount of missiles available is important, yes, but having a ship that can land those missiles in the appropriate spot at the right moment is key. Even frigates (especially those equipped with a phase system) could be considered in this regard.
Title: Re: Best missile ship to pilot yourself?
Post by: ReklessAbrandon on April 14, 2021, 10:14:56 AM
I piloted a Falcon P for a long time in my last run. It works even better the more you have of them. There isn't a lot of stuff in the game that can survive the alpha of 8 Falcon Ps.

I would consider some faction mods if you want a better array of missile ships and missile weapons. It's too bad a lot of them aren't updated for the newest patch yet. I did find a capital with 6 medium missile hard points from the Tahlan Shipworks mod, but I think it's super rare.
Title: Re: Best missile ship to pilot yourself?
Post by: Thaago on April 14, 2021, 10:16:16 AM
Vigilances are a bit weird, because they are absolutely prey for any attack frigate - weak hull, weak shield, moderately slow, only 1 gun. Deploying them in early game where most frigates shine is rough.

But they pack a decent amount of missiles per DP (4.8 harpoons/DP without an officer), so are actually decent support ships (2% ECM by default and could be mounting another support mod in theory) in larger battles when there are enough forces around to keep them safe from attack frigates, and they have enough speed to avoid most destroyers and cruisers+. Treat them as tiny little Gryphons and assign them to escort a bigger ship. They can then also support that ship with an ion beam or with a heavy burst laser to help PD the flanks (and opportunistically fire off 8 harpoons at a time or more).

Honorable mention of course goes to putting a Salamander on them because of how FMR and Salamanders interacts. And ECCM makes Salamanders even nastier this version, though they lack the satisfying explosions that come from harpoon spam. They are by far the best salamander ship if thats your jam.
Title: Re: Best missile ship to pilot yourself?
Post by: IonDragonX on April 14, 2021, 11:39:48 AM
Quote from: KopiG on April 14, 2021, 03:35:32 AM
So Im looking for the best of the best :D Meaning it has a ton of Ordnance points and many Large Missile slots.
Keruvim Shipyards mod an OP ship called Empress, check it:

https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=20513.0
Title: Re: Best missile ship to pilot yourself?
Post by: Daynen on April 14, 2021, 11:43:23 AM
(P) falcon for medium slots.  Pilum spam, sabot storm, harpoon frenzy, take your pick.

Atlas Mk2 for two large slots at only 24 DP.  Less if you can find the right D-mods.

Conquest for the most maneuverable missile capital ship.

It may be a bit OP starved being a carrier, but I believe a drover has 4 small missile slots if you fancy yourself a carrier captain early on.

Once you're more established, an astral has two large missiles as well, plus plenty of wide energy turrets for beams or PD and six fighter bays for missile carnival madness.
Title: Re: Best missile ship to pilot yourself?
Post by: pedro1_1 on April 14, 2021, 12:00:08 PM
There are only 2 ships that I consider dedicated missile plataforms to pilot myself, those are the Falcon(P) and SO Gryphon, I will list some of their strengths and weakness in relation to each other down:
Falcon(P)
Strenghts:
  • Can stay in the field for longuer, due to not needing SO to work.
  • Burn 11 as default, no need to use augumented drive field.
  • Better as an AI ship.
  • Can use Ion Cannons as disabiling weapons
  • Can use small missile slots as ultility.
  • Less reliant on Combat skills.

Weakness:
  • Lower DPS from the use of Typhoon Reapers/Harpoons Pods vs Hammer Barrage.
  • Needs Extended Missile Racks to match starting missile counts.
  • Poor convetional weapons compliment.
  • Has to retreat from the engagement zone to vent.
[close]

SO Gryphon
Strenghts:
  • Heavy conventional weapon load for a support ship.
  • High DPS that is unmatched by any cruiser.
  • Unending misslies for the amount of time you will spend in battle.
  • Does not need to retreat because of hard flux.

Weakness:
  • 8 Max Burn whitout Augumented Engine, 10 whit, limithing the speed of the fleet.
  • SO limits the amount of time in combat.
  • Relies more on combat skills due to LDMG having 300 range, making you wrap around to get the C2R and it's elite effect.
  • Needs Recklees AI to work as intended.
  • Needs Breach SRMs on the small missile slot to work.
[close]

In the end they both achive the same objective: The quick destruction of any oposing ships, the only diference is how fast they can do it, Gryphon being faster than Falcon(P), but burning out just as fast.