Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => General Discussion => Topic started by: RustyCabbage on December 31, 2020, 10:08:24 AM

Title: [0.9.1a] A Guide to (AI-Friendly) Ship Loadouts
Post by: RustyCabbage on December 31, 2020, 10:08:24 AM
(Note for the 0.95a update: Fundamentals still apply in 0.95a, but the guide will get an update pass eventually)

Hi all, a while back I wrote a guide in collaboration with some other experienced players from the Discord on designing ship loadouts which has gotten a decent amount of positive feedback. SCC helpfully reminded me that I'd yet to make a forum post for it, so I guess here is that forum post.

A Guide to (AI-Friendly) Ship Loadouts (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1d3Xvnw9-rcedZpP7e7lChHSvMUnTyDL7o08dlVPTvuE/edit?usp=sharing)

It's quite long, but hopefully also quite comprehensive.

I'll happily take any thoughts or questions people have regarding the guide in this thread.



Some other resources you might find handy:

SCC’s Guides (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=12153.0):

Lortus' Ship Loadout Guide [updated for 0.95.1a] (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=24219.0)

The Starsector Wiki (https://starsector.fandom.com/wiki/Starsector_Wiki). Particularly helpful for me are:
(Do note that information can occasionally be outdated on the wiki - if you ever notice these things I'm sure our wiki administrators would appreciate gentle corrections and additions)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] A Guide to (AI-Friendly) Ship Loadouts
Post by: Thaago on December 31, 2020, 01:47:57 PM
An excellent, if long, guide! Pinned.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] A Guide to (AI-Friendly) Ship Loadouts
Post by: Jonlissla on December 31, 2020, 02:53:16 PM
Okay, let me be the first to say I did NOT expect a 41 page document with links and formulas. I'm impressed, good work.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] A Guide to (AI-Friendly) Ship Loadouts
Post by: Alex on December 31, 2020, 02:55:43 PM
Good call pinning this! For some reason that didn't occur to me. And, yeah, this guide is absolutely top-notch stuff.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] A Guide to (AI-Friendly) Ship Loadouts
Post by: RustyCabbage on December 31, 2020, 03:24:36 PM
An excellent, if long, guide! Pinned.
Good call pinning this! For some reason that didn't occur to me. And, yeah, this guide is absolutely top-notch stuff.
Thank you both! I really didn't expect this to get a pin - I'll work on keeping the OP updated with other helpful ship design resources whenever I'm made aware of them.

Okay, let me be the first to say I did NOT expect a 41 page document with links and formulas. I'm impressed, good work.
Cheers! Eventually I'd like add some more information on stuff like Reinforced Bulkheads vs Armor and weapon efficiencies versus (stripped) armor, but the math isn't quite as simple and I've been a bit lazy on figuring it out. :b
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] A Guide to (AI-Friendly) Ship Loadouts
Post by: stormbringer951 on December 31, 2020, 04:26:50 PM
This guide is a great resource; it's been battle-tested on a lot of people in the new player help channel on the Discord server and has been really helpful for onboarding people and helping them understand a lot of ship-fitting concepts, rules of thumb, and build archetypes and cool tricks.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] A Guide to (AI-Friendly) Ship Loadouts
Post by: FAX on December 31, 2020, 10:51:18 PM
I'm glad to see such an excellent guide appears, would you like me to translate it to Chinese? ;)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] A Guide to (AI-Friendly) Ship Loadouts
Post by: Flying Birdy on December 31, 2020, 11:13:46 PM
This is absolutely great! I've literally been playing with nothing but 4+ d-mod drovers with reinforced bulkheads for like 2 years now. This guide gives a lot of perspective and ideas to try for my AI ships.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] A Guide to (AI-Friendly) Ship Loadouts
Post by: SCC on January 01, 2021, 01:45:29 AM
SCC helpfully reminded me that I'd yet to make a forum post for it, so I guess here is that forum post.
I told you man!
You don't need to put links to my stuff in this thread, though. Hopefully, we'll make a thread to compile this help stuff soon.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] A Guide to (AI-Friendly) Ship Loadouts
Post by: RustyCabbage on January 01, 2021, 02:06:09 PM
This guide is a great resource; it's been battle-tested on a lot of people in the new player help channel on the Discord server and has been really helpful for onboarding people and helping them understand a lot of ship-fitting concepts, rules of thumb, and build archetypes and cool tricks.
:D

I'm glad to see such an excellent guide appears, would you like me to translate it to Chinese? ;)
Talked to you a bit via Discord, but I'd like to reiterate that I'm super honoured that you would even consider this.

This is absolutely great! I've literally been playing with nothing but 4+ d-mod drovers with reinforced bulkheads for like 2 years now. This guide gives a lot of perspective and ideas to try for my AI ships.
Thank you; I hope your attempts go well!

I told you man!
You don't need to put links to my stuff in this thread, though. Hopefully, we'll make a thread to compile this help stuff soon.
Eh, I can easily edit them out whenever we get that compilation thread. In the mean time, more visibility for more good content.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] A Guide to (AI-Friendly) Ship Loadouts
Post by: SirBrodacious on January 28, 2021, 09:05:38 AM
Thank you so much for making this, since I pretty much couldn't play the game past a certain point since I'm a tad bit dumb when it comes to actual tactical games like this, being the person that just doesn't understand them much. This is so helpful!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] A Guide to (AI-Friendly) Ship Loadouts
Post by: RustyCabbage on January 28, 2021, 04:37:07 PM
Thank you so much for making this, since I pretty much couldn't play the game past a certain point since I'm a tad bit dumb when it comes to actual tactical games like this, being the person that just doesn't understand them much. This is so helpful!
Glad you find it useful! Hopefully it isn't too overwhelming--shipbuilding isn't too complex once you get the hang of it, but the initial learning curve can be a bit hefty.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] A Guide to (AI-Friendly) Ship Loadouts
Post by: Sotales on April 01, 2021, 12:39:18 PM
This is great. I just came back to the game with the new update and I'm sure I will be referring to this often. Wonder how the new skill tree update shakes things up.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] A Guide to (AI-Friendly) Ship Loadouts
Post by: IonDragonX on April 01, 2021, 01:07:41 PM
This is great. I just came back to the game with the new update and I'm sure I will be referring to this often. Wonder how the new skill tree update shakes things up.
Don't put too much faith in this OLD guide. There are enough changes in versions to make it Obsolete.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] A Guide to (AI-Friendly) Ship Loadouts
Post by: RustyCabbage on April 01, 2021, 01:27:38 PM
Absolutely ancient; I'm not even sure vents give 10 dissipation anymore :p

(I'll be updating this... eventually. The broad strokes should still be correct, but it'll need a new section on officers and skills, new screenshots and double-checking for minute changes, among other things.)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] A Guide to (AI-Friendly) Ship Loadouts
Post by: SCC on December 17, 2021, 02:09:10 PM
New break even points for Hardened Shields: 5667/11 333/17 000/28 333
Legend: SK = using skills, elite Ordnance Expertise and Flux Regulations. NP = not practical, even if possible.
Frigates that can reach it: Brawler (12 caps, SK, NP), Tempest (12 caps, SK, NP), Scarab (12 caps, SK), Omen (12 caps, SK), Glimmer (12 caps, SK) Hyperion (0 caps).
Destroyers: Sunder (15 caps, SK), Medusa (20 caps, SK, NP).
Cruisers: Fury (33 caps, SK, NP), Apogee (16 caps, SK), Dominator (20 caps, SK, NP), Champion (23 caps, SK, NP), Aurora (19 caps, SK).
Capital ships: Onslaught (34 caps, SK, NP), Conquest (15 caps, SK), Odyssey (46 caps, SK, NP), Paragon (15 caps), Radiant (15 caps).

tl;dr: put Hardened Shields only on Hyperion, Paragon or Radiant. Even with skills there are very few ships where it's practical to use Hardened Shields over just stacking caps.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] A Guide to (AI-Friendly) Ship Loadouts
Post by: Thaago on December 17, 2021, 02:47:32 PM
Is this counting the effect that skills has of changing the breakeven point? Also, I'll note that hardened shields has other effects than just being more effective shield hitpoints: it raises the amount of HP regenerated per second by venting and reduces the chance of EMP arcing.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] A Guide to (AI-Friendly) Ship Loadouts
Post by: RustyCabbage on December 17, 2021, 02:59:50 PM
I don't think any skills change the breakeven point, merely make reaching it easier. And all those considerations are true and hopefully mentioned somewhere in the doc.

I need to rewrite it, I know  :'(
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] A Guide to (AI-Friendly) Ship Loadouts
Post by: Thaago on December 17, 2021, 03:34:27 PM
Ah, right you are! I had my multiplicative/additive jumbled in my head.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] A Guide to (AI-Friendly) Ship Loadouts
Post by: SCC on December 17, 2021, 10:37:58 PM
Also, I'll note that hardened shields has other effects than just being more effective shield hitpoints: it raises the amount of HP regenerated per second by venting
While that is true, I think I would rather my ships' PPT than HP.

Also I edited my previous post on the basis that I underestimated a few frigates
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] A Guide to (AI-Friendly) Ship Loadouts
Post by: Lortus on April 01, 2022, 10:11:09 AM
I am honored and thankful for the inclusion of my guide here. Much appreciated.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] A Guide to (AI-Friendly) Ship Loadouts
Post by: RustyCabbage on April 04, 2022, 06:21:25 AM
I am honored and thankful for the inclusion of my guide here. Much appreciated.
Seems like a decent enough guide, and more importantly is properly updated for 0.95.1 in the mean time.  ;) Thanks for writing it.