Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => Suggestions => Topic started by: DrTechman42 on April 29, 2020, 06:30:38 AM

Title: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: DrTechman42 on April 29, 2020, 06:30:38 AM: I understand that such suggestions have already been made, but the most recent one is six years old, so I wanted to see if anything has changed.

So, you have a colony that is a home to a few million people. You have established industry with ships full of goods flying here and there between the worlds of your faction. Why not to gather the brightest minds of these worlds and start a small Research and Development department and put all those vast ruins filled with Domain technology to use?

This being said, after a certain threshold for the infrastructure has been met, the player is given the ability to start refining (and maybe even creating something completely new) stuff. That should be an industry with significant upkeep (to justify the fact that the other factions aren’t doing this too) and that is only buildable on worlds that are large enough. You can start different projects that would enhance the efficiency of either the industry or the military. That could range from Stellaris-like +X% to something to some new and exotic mechanics.

For example: I want to invent a new weapon. First, I pay a substantial amount of money to start the process. Then I am given a statblock for the weapon and the ability to choose a model of the weapon. That could be a few models to choose from (just like the faction flags) and be completely cosmetic or the model could be defined by the stats of the weapon (too difficult to implement though). The stats can be made by using a points pool system and the amount of points can be varied depending on the funding of the R&D (if you want a true wunderwaffe that completely matches your playstyle you’d better be able to pay for it). Once you set up the project, the R&D should start posting you different missions to keep the project moving (we want it to be an engaging lategame experience, right?). Something like “Get us a bunch of transplutonics” or “Hey, there is a red danger beacon nearby, can you go there and scan a few ruins for us?” or “We need to learn more how do the [Redacted] work, can you please go and fight a few of them? Be sure not to destroy it before the scan completes.” (Forcing you to either to out maneuver or to tank all the damage in the process).

After you complete a project, in order to build something you have invented you will need to pay in resources, not only money. It is so because it is almost hand-made and not a simple blueprint that can be easily 3d printed. Maybe you could toss a few Alpha-cores for a few months to make a blueprint.

That’s it. I see it as a long-term investment of time and resources for the players to watch after with a reward that would be worth it. The player’s skills are also likely to affect the process. It also could be nice if there would be some interactions with the other factions. For example, a pirate lord says that he has what your R&D wants and agrees to sell it to you for a large sum of money. You come to an isolated star system far away from the core worlds only to be ambushed by that pirate “We’ve lied that we had had that thing, but you do have the money we want.”

Sorry for any mistakes in terms of English. Hope to hear your thoughts and additions.
Title: Re: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: Megas on April 29, 2020, 07:14:59 AM: If I have a big colony, I have an army. I like to see that army to do stuff for me since I am only one guy and there is a lot of stuff to do. Currently, there are too many things I need to do (i.e., the babysitting problem) because my personal fleet is the only one that can do it. What is my army doing goofing off at my colonies? If I cannot send my troops, I should be able to hire someone to do stuff for me.

In other words, fetch quests can be done by my subjects or hirelings, while I get to do fun stuff like explore unknown areas, do special plot stuff, raid core worlds for blueprints, or grind Ordos for treasure. Not babysit colonies (mine or core worlds) or do mundane fetch quests. Fetch quests are for low-level grunts, not for a leader if he wants to do more important stuff than play delivery boy.
Title: Re: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: DrTechman42 on April 29, 2020, 07:24:33 AM: Quote from: Megas on April 29, 2020, 07:14:59 AM
What is my army doing goofing off at my colonies?
Garrison?
I do understand the problem though. Here we are entering the part of lack of engagement/too much micromanagement. I (being a fanatical technophile) am more than capable of sinking hours into that mechanic just because it appeals to me so much.
Fetching? Maybe too much. Hunting exotic stuff in the red beacon star systems? That's the goal for a few paragons in a single fleet.
Title: Re: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: Megas on April 29, 2020, 07:37:09 AM: I do not want too much micromanagement. On the other hand, I do not want to be forced to do too much, and total core kill looks very appealing to cut down on the workload (no more defending helpless core from endless pirates, no more fixing rep from repelling expeditions). Some management is good if it means saving time in the long run. Or rather, personally racing from world to pirate base and repeat is micromanagement, since I am personally involved, just using feet and brute strength instead of a balance of commanding my subjects to remove excessive grunt workload off my back and doing more interesting things.

It does not need to involve too much micromanagement. The noncombatants print money and produce ships and other commodities. It should not take much to set a hiring policy, pay some extra upkeep, and more stuff happens.

What I would like is telling some of combat fleets to seek-and-destroy annoying targets, like a pirate base, that I do not want to deal with now (because I am more than halfway across the sector toward the red planet, and I do not want to stop and turn back to babysit something).

Quote
Hunting exotic stuff in the red beacon star systems? That's the goal for a few paragons in a single fleet.
That is something the player can do, since people generally do not want to enter a system that has what amounts to a "Danger! No trespassing! (Violators will be punished or killed!)" sign from the Hegemony police. This kind of falls under exploration and/or high treasure hunting.

Although I prefer to enter such systems to rip off already made tech, or the blueprints to build them out of nothing (like planetary shield).
Title: Re: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: FooF on April 29, 2020, 08:41:23 AM: I like the idea, in general...but not for this game.

The issue for me is that an R&D system with those kind of prerequisites, if poorly done, has binary outcomes with the end product it produces. You either get exactly what you want (and make all alternatives obsolete) or you get trash that you throw away. . Both use-cases take away options, not create them. Also, if you end up locking a bunch of hand-crafted "better" [weapons, ships, mods, etc.] behind R&D checkpoints (instead of RNG tables that just turn it into a gambling mini-game), the R&D becomes optimal and therefore, mandatory. If it is an RNG mini-game, or even if the player can hand-select what the item parameters are, the same binary outcome applies.

What you're suggesting sounds more at-home in a 4x game. I admire that you're trying to fit it within the context of "give the player a reason to fight stuff" because that is the the ultimate goal of the game, but it's a mechanic/system that potentially creates a lot of art, UI, and scripting assets for marginal gain if the end-products of the mechanic/system aren't really balanced (which is more work) and "Fun(TM)" enough that most players will use it. I would probably use such a system, if it existed, but it would create micro-management and Alex is ahem...less than thrilled...with any kind of mini-games.

Unless, of course, I'm just not understanding the suggestion.

Good idea: just a lot of work to implement that I think could be spent elsewhere for greater overall gain.
Title: Re: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: Eji1700 on April 29, 2020, 10:44:08 AM: I think your proposed version is too detailed/granular for what star sector is going for, but I would like to see something between "i have a colony and access to nothing special" to "i found a blueprint kit and now have literally everything". I will almost always get my colony off the ground at the point i have 2/3rds of the possible blueprints. There's never any "well i guess my fleet's relying on ventures for now" because i've already got everything else by then. Further if I for some reason could only use them, the only way to find more is to go raid/explore.

Having another avenue to unlock/use weapon/ship blueprints might help the end game loop, which is currently

1. Explore to find things
2. Throw money at a colony until it can build things
3. Throw money at building it.
Title: Re: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: Mordodrukow on April 29, 2020, 02:04:51 PM: Imo, the game could have some sort of research. We have a lot of domain-era stuff to analyze and try to reinvent it. The closest example to compare is Rimworld tech tree: some stuff can affect your combat abilities, some can improve your quality of life. And some lead to the main goal: trying to leave.

Sector here is just like any planet in rimworld: you trapped here, but can research to break free. Or at least find out why the gates were turned off. It can be that "end of game" point so many people are asking for. It is pretty nominal and doesnt change the main idea of the game: being a sandbox. But it adds new axis to gameplay.

Also it explains why factions looking for survey data. Right now they create missions just because. In Nex they colonise planets at least... In vanilla they just have some money they want to give you. Real existing data can be the answer. Also it can be exchanged for other data or for resources maybe, which means real diplomacy.

It is really good idea, which can make the game way better if done properly.
Title: Re: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: FooF on April 29, 2020, 05:57:05 PM: With the caveat of "gameplay>realism/lore", the lore does makes clear that though the Sector uses Domain tech, for the most part, no one understands how it works and it might as well be magitec. Reverse-engineering it really isn't in the cards anymore.

Again, we're going into 4x territory if Research leads to Diplomacy which leads to Dynamic Factions, etc. and I just don't think the game is going that direction.
Title: Re: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: Eji1700 on April 29, 2020, 09:13:27 PM: Quote from: FooF on April 29, 2020, 05:57:05 PM
With the caveat of "gameplay>realism/lore", the lore does makes clear that though the Sector uses Domain tech, for the most part, no one understands how it works and it might as well be magitec. Reverse-engineering it really isn't in the cards anymore.

Again, we're going into 4x territory if Research leads to Diplomacy which leads to Dynamic Factions, etc. and I just don't think the game is going that direction.
I mean it takes a single line like "and so because we don't really get this we'll be flipping switches, turning knobs, and throwing levers until we understand it better so it's going to be a few weeks before they don't come out upside down or hot pink.
Title: Re: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: Mordodrukow on April 30, 2020, 04:21:15 AM: Quote
lore does makes clear that though the Sector uses Domain tech, for the most part, no one understands how it works
It doesnt mean that the sector is filled with apes who dont want to make situation better but only to eat, breed and kill each other. I m not trying to say that few scientists can get together on weekend in garage to take paragon and find out everything about it. Yes, it might take a lot of time, but come on... if everybody knows nothing, why somebody have skills like Loadout design? Or how pirates and ludds reshape hulls? Or how do we create comm relays for FTL communication almost from pure metals? This is not Might&Magic setting where everybody really degraded to dwarfs and elves.

Also, if FTL communication exists, why dont we get any messages from outside the sector? And a lot more questions... I hope, someday the lore will be gathered together and translated, because it is possible that my understanding of language just doesnt allow me to see the real picture. But till that the lore looks pretty fabulously for me. Unless you pretend that SS is like Mad Max in a space ("People and fuel are treasure in this world. What must we do? Lets waste em in pointless road fights!" Pretty idiotic, imo... But at least it could explain the AI behavior here...)
Title: Re: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: Megas on April 30, 2020, 06:21:18 AM: Quote from: Mordodrukow on April 30, 2020, 04:21:15 AM
It doesnt mean that the sector is filled with apes who dont want to make situation better but only to eat, breed and kill each other.
With current gameplay, it is worse than that. The sector is a pirate zombie apocalypse.

Quote
Unless you pretend that SS is like Mad Max in a space ("People and fuel are treasure in this world. What must we do? Lets waste em in pointless road fights!" Pretty idiotic, imo... But at least it could explain the AI behavior here...)
It reminds me more like High Plains Drifter. The pirates are outlaws, and the core worlds you may try to save are the cowardly and treacherous mining town. The player is Clint Eastwood riding into town to take out the outlaws and get the cowards to paint their town red.
Title: Re: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: FooF on April 30, 2020, 06:42:52 AM: A lot of the inspiration for the Lore comes from Sci-Fi that deal with the topic of collapse. (https://fractalsoftworks.com/2015/03/12/a-starsector-reading-list/) The only one I've gotten around to is the Hyperion Cantos by Dan Simmons but if that's any indicator, the Collapse was complete, though after about 400 years, society is just beginning to re-connect.

It's not that humans all of a sudden become dumb, it's just that Pre-Collapse, everyone took for granted how things worked or AI was doing all the heavy-lifting and there wasn't a single human that had comprehensive knowledge of how specific technologies worked. The Gates in Hyperion, for example, were completely AI-controlled but everyone used them multiple times a day and society was built around them. However, when [events] cause the gates to fail, humanity has no way of re-opening them and even hundreds of years later, they're just relics of a bygone era that no one seriously believes will ever work again. It sets society back 500 years and makes the whole human civilization re-evaluate how to live.

That's a similar setting that Starsector is in. The tech the Sector is using is degraded and/or derivitave and though R&D still occurs, the best the scientists of the Sector have to offer pales in comparison to the Domain tech they're currently using or, more importantly, finding via exploration and scavenging missions. It's like Warhammer 40k where the Mechanicus isn't inventing anything new but STCs (Standard Template Constructs) from the "Golden Age" are occasionally found and though no one knows how they work, they are able to produce extremely powerful stuff. It's likely a more efficient/profitable endeavor to find Domain tech than it is to invent stuff to rival it (which no one can anymore, anyway).

Yes, it's a bleak setting but that's where we are.

Also, aren't Story Points doing some of the things that this hypothetical R&D industry is doing? Improving individual ships, giving bonuses, making things more efficient, etc.?
Title: Re: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: Mordodrukow on April 30, 2020, 07:20:57 AM: Yes, i remember about the pirates >_>

Even in Clint Eastwood times there was some development and inventing. More to say, in sector we have never ending wars between factions. War (if it doesnt lead to total extermination) always pushes thechnologies forward.

Also we have Tri-tachyon corp, which by its nature tries to outsmart others. Just checked wiki: they literally collecting relics, researching and trying to reactivate the gates.

Argument about gameplay is more viable. But i understand that. Thats why i m saying that tech integration must be done properly, because it defenetely affect the game, and we want positive changes to be bigger than negative (i also understand that "positive" and "negative" here can be subjective).

Quote
Also, aren't Story Points doing some of the things that this hypothetical R&D industry is doing? Improving individual ships, giving bonuses, making things more efficient, etc.?
For me the story points look more like "breaking the rules" than R&D. I dont suggest rule breaking, i suggest the new side of gameplay. Currently we have two layers: economy and fleet power. Nothing else.

Why to explore, for example? You can steal forge from other faction. The same for synchro core. Thats for friendly fleets. For your own fleet you dont need even that, because you can just buy/capture few paragons and do what you want. The only unique thing in sector is planetary shield and you even dont need to put any effort finding it.

Why to trade, if you can earn money from colonies? I used trade (i mean: buying goods to sell em for profit, not just selling loot) only once: during beginners quests on my first playthrough. You need money? Just kill few pirate stations for bounty.

There are a lot of activites, but all of them make sense only if you want to roleplay. I dont want to roleplay. I want roleplay and gameplay. Few weeks ago i started to play Terraria (again). Its also sandbox. And it has some activities, like fishing, building ect. And all of them make sense, you know... So, it is not an argument that SS is a sandbox.
Title: Re: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: Megas on April 30, 2020, 08:29:01 AM: A reason why I called current Starsector like High Plains Drifter is because of the invincible zombie pirates, core worlds post bounties against pirates (but do nothing themselves to stop pirate raids and bases if no one answers the call), and if the player manages to keep them at bay and save core worlds, most of them thank you by trying to burn your colonies to the ground with endless expeditions, which happen to be bigger than their system defense fleets or anything else they may send against other enemies. Cowardly and treacherous. No wonder why I like total core kill as the solution to the babysitting problem.

I do not care what time they are in if the people are running scared from relentless zombies (that also happen to be pirates yelling "ARRR! BRAINS! ARRR! GOLD BRAINS!!!") or hiding in a corner wetting themselves out of fear.

Hopefully, the next release of Starsector will play more like its intended lore instead of being a survivor or zombie lord in a zombie apocalypse.
Title: Re: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: DrTechman42 on April 30, 2020, 11:50:02 PM: Quote from: Mordodrukow on April 29, 2020, 02:04:51 PM
Sector here is just like any planet in Rimworld: you trapped here, but can research to break free.
This. We actually have multiple situations of collapse, like Kenshi and Rimworld, where R&D (or no D) still goes on. We are already capable of building a ship (after finding a blueprint) and proudly saying "I've built this!". Why not to make a step further and say "I've created and built this!"?

Right now, we have Economy, Warfare and Diplomacy (with the help of Nexerelin). Why not to add another layer?

Also, remember the quest for an academic that asks you to get him an Alpha core? Some stuff is going on already; we just can't interact with it.
We can go even deeper. We can create two paths: 1) go on your own 2) let the AI go on and use the result. 1) can take a huge amount of time and money; 2) can be faster and cheaper, but it could lead us to Crying Suns scenario.

Quote from: FooF on April 29, 2020, 08:41:23 AM
What you're suggesting sounds more at-home in a 4x game.

You sound like that's something bad (made by the 2000+ hours in 4X gang)
Title: Re: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: FooF on May 01, 2020, 07:20:59 AM: Quote from: DrTechman42 on April 30, 2020, 11:50:02 PM
Quote from: FooF on April 29, 2020, 08:41:23 AM
What you're suggesting sounds more at-home in a 4x game.
You sound like that's something bad (made by the 2000+ hours in 4X gang)

It's not bad, it's just Alex has said repeatedly he's doesn't want to go in that direction. So its a good litmus test whether or not a suggestion is "reasonable" for Starsector or not.
Title: Re: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: Mordodrukow on May 01, 2020, 10:15:11 AM: Well, the positive side of this decision is: combat in this game truly amazing. Just because Alex focused on it.

I guess, i simply need to learn how to mod by myself. Want to learn JS anyway...
Title: Re: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: dead_hand on May 02, 2020, 06:37:08 AM: Quote from: Mordodrukow on May 01, 2020, 10:15:11 AM
Well, the positive side of this decision is: combat in this game truly amazing. Just because Alex focused on it.

I guess, i simply need to learn how to mod by myself. Want to learn JS anyway...

OFF-Topic: Not JS... Java. A very different beast, despite the similarity in name :)

ON-Topic:

I think a R&D would make a lot of sense campaign/story/lore wise. I would imagine that Alpha cores would be able to contribute in a significant way to R&D, which would also explain why the Hegemony doesn't like AI very much, the current state of collapse keeps them in a nice status as the most powerful faction.
Title: Re: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: Igncom1 on May 02, 2020, 06:44:06 AM: Quote from: dead_hand on May 02, 2020, 06:37:08 AM
ON-Topic:

I think a R&D would make a lot of sense campaign/story/lore wise. I would imagine that Alpha cores would be able to contribute in a significant way to R&D, which would also explain why the Hegemony doesn't like AI very much, the current state of collapse keeps them in a nice status as the most powerful faction.

If you ignore the 2(Or 3?) AI wars you mean?

It's not like there isn't a precedent that AI death machines can either go rampant or allow a small group of CEO's to dominate the entire sector at one with an automated army. Before that there is a very large population of luddites in the sector who object to such technology inherently.

Even then, the current hegemony has lost over half the sector to insurrectionists and traitors. They are at their weakest upon game start and are basically set to fall.
Title: Re: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: dead_hand on May 02, 2020, 06:50:51 AM: Quote from: Igncom1 on May 02, 2020, 06:44:06 AM
Quote from: dead_hand on May 02, 2020, 06:37:08 AM
ON-Topic:

I think a R&D would make a lot of sense campaign/story/lore wise. I would imagine that Alpha cores would be able to contribute in a significant way to R&D, which would also explain why the Hegemony doesn't like AI very much, the current state of collapse keeps them in a nice status as the most powerful faction.

If you ignore the 2(Or 3?) AI wars you mean?

It's not like there isn't a precedent that AI death machines can either go rampant or allow a small group of CEO's to dominate the entire sector at one with an automated army. Before that there is a very large population of luddites in the sector who object to such technology inherently.

Even then, the current hegemony has lost over half the sector to insurrectionists and traitors. They are at their weakest upon game start and are basically set to fall.

True, the AI wars probably also got the Hegemony a bit miffed :)

The player doesn't have to agree with the Hegemony, it would depend on what direction the lore-writer would want to take the game. I personally end up at -100 to Hegemony in every game, so they don't really seem to come off as the faction the player is meant to support(?), moreover it would be insane to ignore the potential the AI could be when it comes to boosting the R&D potential of the sector. Given that the current timeline year is already centuries after the collapse, I don't think anyone believes the Domain is coming back.
Title: Re: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: Mondaymonkey on May 02, 2020, 06:56:17 AM: Quote from: dead_hand on May 02, 2020, 06:50:51 AM
would be insane to ignore the potential the AI could be when it comes to boosting the R&D potential of the sector.

Are you the Skynet?

Spoiler
(https://www.computerra.ru/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/T.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: Igncom1 on May 02, 2020, 07:04:15 AM: Quote from: dead_hand on May 02, 2020, 06:50:51 AM
True, the AI wars probably also got the Hegemony a bit miffed :)

The player doesn't have to agree with the Hegemony, it would depend on what direction the lore-writer would want to take the game. I personally end up at -100 to Hegemony in every game, so they don't really seem to come off as the faction the player is meant to support(?), moreover it would be insane to ignore the potential the AI could be when it comes to boosting the R&D potential of the sector. Given that the current timeline year is already centuries after the collapse, I don't think anyone believes the Domain is coming back.

Well the Hegemony outside of the memes never enforces anything unreasonable upon the player, and through the tutorial start you start off with pretty good relations at that. Not that they are the good guys as they are brutally militaristic. They will investigate fleeing radicals and terrorists moving into your free ports, as does the luddite church, which isn't that far wrong in it's essence anyway. They will never raid you for your market control, and are more then happy to let you build an economic juggernaut across the sector. They will inspect for AI cores because that's on them willing the AI wars and setting the sector wide "rules" regarding them. I suppose if you fight them for that you are essentially starting the next big AI war.

They are the least perfidious of the factions, unless the church are perhaps more accepting of you? (I think they might inspect you for the same things if the hegemony don't.)
Title: Re: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: Megas on May 02, 2020, 07:15:33 AM: I eventually end up with -100 with everyone (until they are all dead), because they do not want to leave me alone, and Indies are dumb enough to join with the enemy when I sat bomb some major factions' worlds to make the expedition spam stop. When zombie pirates keep raiding their worlds successfully, and yet they want to keep trying to ruin my colonies after I save them, I am more than willing to let the pirates eat all of the core worlds, if I do not sat bomb all of them out of their misery first due to me running out of patience.

Hegemony and Church are terrible hypocrites, raiding my Free Markets, but nobody else's, including those from Indies (who are smaller than me) and pirates (who are part of the zombie infestation) and Tri-Tachyon (their mortal enemies, yet they send more invaders at me than at them). Since both are part of the cowardly civilians that let the zombie pirate juggernaut eat their worlds, they eventually die.

I do not care so much about income as I do population growth and maybe keeping my miners happy. I am not turning off Free Port just to slow down the expedition spam. (They need to grow a brain and know when to cut their losses or die and lose everything.) I would rather kill all of the core worlds to make them stop than to turn off Free Port. Plus turning off Free Port does nothing for League/Diktat/TT.
Title: Re: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: dead_hand on May 02, 2020, 07:21:13 AM: Quote from: Igncom1 on May 02, 2020, 07:04:15 AM
Quote from: dead_hand on May 02, 2020, 06:50:51 AM
True, the AI wars probably also got the Hegemony a bit miffed :)

The player doesn't have to agree with the Hegemony, it would depend on what direction the lore-writer would want to take the game. I personally end up at -100 to Hegemony in every game, so they don't really seem to come off as the faction the player is meant to support(?), moreover it would be insane to ignore the potential the AI could be when it comes to boosting the R&D potential of the sector. Given that the current timeline year is already centuries after the collapse, I don't think anyone believes the Domain is coming back.

Well the Hegemony outside of the memes never enforces anything unreasonable upon the player, and through the tutorial start you start off with pretty good relations at that. Not that they are the good guys as they are brutally militaristic. They will investigate fleeing radicals and terrorists moving into your free ports, as does the luddite church, which isn't that far wrong in it's essence anyway. They will never raid you for your market control, and are more then happy to let you build an economic juggernaut across the sector. They will inspect for AI cores because that's on them willing the AI wars and setting the sector wide "rules" regarding them. I suppose if you fight them for that you are essentially starting the next big AI war.

They are the least perfidious of the factions, unless the church are perhaps more accepting of you? (I think they might inspect you for the same things if the hegemony don't.)

With that you raise a very good point. I usually get very much caught up in trying not to get rekt by the pirates, so I outfit colony admin slots, orbital stations and high commands with alphas as soon as I get the chance (it really does make a big difference), but in turn that provokes the Hegemony. Unfortunately it seems to be worth the trade-off because the pirates can and will overwhelm defenses that aren't as strong as possible. I usually end up having decent relations with most factions, except for Hegemony. A bounty or two, or a blown up pirate/LP base will quickly recover the lost rep from the occasional market share expeditions.

And partially what Megas said that the pirate threat is really so prevalent that you will likely end up going against some of the sector 'rules', hence the use of Alpha Cores in all defensive buildings and admin slots
Title: Re: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: Megas on May 02, 2020, 07:25:06 AM: I would use cores because I do not want to waste nine to twelve skill points in colony skills when I can get the skills for free. Plus, I like building a big empire, and cores let player colonizes more than a few worlds.

Inspections are annoying, but Pather cells are worse... or would be if they were not bugged. Pathers are zombies just like pirates, but the sabotage bug means the worst they can do is -1 stability, and that is a good bug because now I can dedicate all skills to combat and Navigation.
Title: Re: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: Igncom1 on May 02, 2020, 07:40:10 AM: Quote from: Megas on May 02, 2020, 07:25:06 AM
I would use cores because I do not want to waste nine to twelve skill points in colony skills when I can get the skills for free. Plus, I like building a big empire, and cores let player colonizes more than a few worlds.

Inspections are annoying, but Pather cells are worse... or would be if they were not bugged. Pathers are zombies just like pirates, but the sabotage bug means the worst they can do is -1 stability, and that is a good bug because now I can dedicate all skills to combat and Navigation.

I get the metaphor you use for the pirates but ever since the Panthers got bugged there is basically 0 reason to fight them. A basic stability hit is nothing at all when faced with raiding disruptions caused by pop-up pirate bases. (And yeah I think we all agree that pirate raids are way too strong right now, producing fleets way in excess of even the largest faction expeditions. One capital fleet at max in my option.)

I can't half the Hege to a higher standard when empire building with AI cores. At that point they basically should try to stop you from forging a new Domain of Man.

Otherwise in my current game I went for a least offensive colony possible with no free port, no industries, no AI cores and was still raided by the pirates for the 1,000 credits a month the colony made in net profits! Now that I have a Orbital works the 3 main culprits now raid me over that production, and pirates are ever present but otherwise no one else is all that bothered at all!

I would consider that to be the 'basic' game-play of colonies, obviously with more industries then my minimalist play. Pirates are my enemy and the League, Diktat (rarely), and TT are dubious trading partners who will raid me while I protect their colonies from pirate mega swarms, The Church and Hege are really chill.
Title: Re: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: Megas on May 02, 2020, 08:13:18 AM: Quote from: Igncom1 on May 02, 2020, 07:40:10 AM
I get the metaphor you use for the pirates but ever since the Panthers got bugged there is basically 0 reason to fight them. A basic stability hit is nothing at all when faced with raiding disruptions caused by pop-up pirate bases. (And yeah I think we all agree that pirate raids are way too strong right now, producing fleets way in excess of even the largest faction expeditions. One capital fleet at max in my option.)
That is why the Pather bug is great. I do not need to hunt them down, and they do not break core worlds that are stable enough. That was why I wrote "Pather cells are worse... or would be if they were not bugged." If we had to fight them, we would have two zombie hordes to deal with instead of one.
Title: Re: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: Mordodrukow on May 02, 2020, 12:57:00 PM: Imo, we also need reworked reputation system...

May be separate rep for player as a person and for player's faction. And some mechanism that could affect relations between factions. Something like that we already have in Nex, but on basic level.
Title: Re: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: dead_hand on May 06, 2020, 04:51:17 AM: Quote from: Mordodrukow on May 02, 2020, 12:57:00 PM
Imo, we also need reworked reputation system...

May be separate rep for player as a person and for player's faction. And some mechanism that could affect relations between factions. Something like that we already have in Nex, but on basic level.

Or if the reputation you gain/lose with individual officers and station administrator would have any real effects. E.g. maybe the Hegemony hates you in general, but you kept managing to feed Ancyra while pirates besieged it, the fleets spawned from that planet wouldn't attack you, even if the faction generally despises you.
Title: Re: Players starting their own R&D
Post by: intrinsic_parity on May 06, 2020, 11:30:20 AM: I suggested something similar a while ago
https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=17955.msg281417#msg281417

Alex seemed open to it, so there's a chance it could happen.