Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dri on April 19, 2020, 02:12:25 PM

Title: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Dri on April 19, 2020, 02:12:25 PM
https://twitter.com/i/status/1251963943549108225

So from what I can tell upfront it has 1 large missile and energy, 4 small energy and 2 medium ballistic. On the sides it has two smalls (empty in GIF) and at the rear we have two small energy. Not sure if some are hybrid/universal/composite or what have you. Looks like a powerful ship at first glance!

The slots that jump out @ me are obviously the large energy and missile along with the 2 medium ballistic—just those slots alone I can think of some powerful sets. The first that comes to mind is a Squall or Sabot Pod in the missile to burst down shields and backed up with a HIL or Autopulse to eat through armor and hull. The medium ballistics could be all sorts of things like needlers/flaks/maulers/HVDs.

Does that pink glow on the energy mounts mean High Energy Focus ship system? Not a bad system but means the ship will be built around what you put into that large energy, if so. As far as ship systems in general, I feel Alex needs to put out a few new ones! Some are being reused pretty heavily.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: SCC on April 19, 2020, 02:15:00 PM
1 large missile, 1 large energy, 2 medium hybrid, 8 small energy.
Yes, it has HEF. I don't mind systems being reused, no need to reinvent the wheel. I wonder if the new light high-tech cruiser will have a new system or not.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Amoebka on April 19, 2020, 02:15:51 PM
4 tac lasers + HIL + 2 HVD for the 1000 range supression platform.

IR/ion + 2 heavy needlers + Autopulse for instant ship deletion. Probably with SO, too (and HMG instead of needlers? depends on the speed).

The large missile is ALWAYS hammer barrage.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Dri on April 19, 2020, 02:24:28 PM
Oh yeah, you could fit it out for 1000 range pretty well. Though you'd need both the range boosting hull mods (one for the laser) to get it higher, huh?

Seems far more powerful than the Eagle, that is for sure. Wonder how much it'll cost to deploy.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Goumindong on April 19, 2020, 02:27:30 PM
Its a heavy cruiser so it will cost at least 25 (on par with the dominator) and likely more. The Domi has destroyer level flux stats as well so there is no guarantee it can reasonably fire a non-PD large energy(The Paladin supposedly got some flux buffs).

So as much as we're all salivating at the 2x HN, Plasma Cannon getup we want it to have that doesn't mean it would work. :P

Its also likely to have base speed lower than the Eagles 50 and with no mobility active that will make it hard to utilize the shorter range large energy weapons
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Igncom1 on April 19, 2020, 02:33:24 PM
I wonder which faction will field them.

Hegemony seems likely. The League uses the conquest, so it's not impossible. I would doubt the TT, Pirates, Luddites 1 and 2. Possible independent but rare. And I don't know the kinds of fleets the Diktat use or the Lions Guard, or whatever they are called.

What do you lot think?
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Amoebka on April 19, 2020, 02:34:16 PM
Dominator is low-tech, that's why the flux stats are so bad. Midline is usually more about glass cannons. My guess is this cruiser has good dissipation but an inefficient shield, like Sunder.

I bet it will be 28 DP. Has to be more than Dominator, can't be more than Aurora.

Please no Hegemony, they already have enough stuff! Give Diktat or League some love. Probably Diktat, league seems to be more about carriers.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: ANGRYABOUTELVES on April 19, 2020, 02:41:48 PM
alex why would you do this
why would you make a cruiser that can mount a high intensity laser and two medium kinetics
and a large missile on top
i can't believe you've done this
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Grievous69 on April 19, 2020, 02:46:02 PM
Just so everybody knows, Alex said it has the same DP as the Dom, so 25.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Goumindong on April 19, 2020, 02:46:44 PM
Petition to name the new heavy cruiser "elves"
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Thaago on April 19, 2020, 02:58:11 PM
I think it all comes down to flux stats for this ship. The mount combination is incredibly good in terms of damage types, but it remains to be seen how comfortably it can use them. The Dominator (while a good ship) has a lot less firepower than its mounts would indicate because of its flux budget.

I can't really think of any situation I'd use those mediums for energy instead of ballistic though.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Grievous69 on April 19, 2020, 03:05:27 PM
I can't really think of any situation I'd use those mediums for energy instead of ballistic though.
Well it does have HEF as its system. Maybe an SO build with only energy weapons could work? The ship is probably too slow for that but you never know how it'll work out.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Dri on April 19, 2020, 03:15:15 PM
If the only hybrid slots are the 2 medium up front then that seems pretty strange. Some of the smalls should be hybrids too.

But yeah, what does Eagle have over this? It's uh, faster? Honestly, the energy mounts on the Eagle need to be the ones up front because they have the short range—I always end up putting beams in those slots because of it.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Goumindong on April 19, 2020, 03:35:52 PM
If the only hybrid slots are the 2 medium up front then that seems pretty strange. Some of the smalls should be hybrids too.

But yeah, what does Eagle have over this? It's uh, faster? Honestly, the energy mounts on the Eagle need to be the ones up front because they have the short range—I always end up putting beams in those slots because of it.

Its probably much faster. Especially in changing direction. It also has far more net medium slots (6!) and therefore far more effective standoff range. Its going to be legit hard to compete with the falcon/eagle for fleet cruiser use
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Thaago on April 19, 2020, 04:05:16 PM
As this is a heavy cruiser, I'm guessing it has a bit lower speed then the Eagle in addition to not having maneuvering jets. In practice then it will be quite a bit slower and also not particularly capable of backing off when overextended.

The medium energy slots on the Eagle... well they are flexible at least. I wouldn't put pulse lasers or heavy blasters on them if I could at all help it, but they are quite good for graviton/phase lance/ion beam. Or just more small PD: 6x LRPD + IPDAI is a bit odd but gives a nice 800*1.4 range zone of missile protection for everything around it.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Megas on April 19, 2020, 04:27:05 PM
Hopefully, its stats are on par with the other cruisers and not be a Gryphon Mk.2 that cannot fight at the front line.  If it really is a good cruiser, then the game will finally have something useful that can use all of those relatively widespread Hammer Barrages that I never use because no ship is good enough to use them aside from Legion14.  Of course, Hammers run out too quickly, and I will probably default to Locusts late in the game.

If the small hardpoints are all energy, I probably will leave them empty if ship is OP starved enough.

P.S.  Looks like it can do the unblockable kinetics and lance combo.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Thaago on April 19, 2020, 04:41:55 PM
I like the Gryphon: It pulls its weight as a light missile cruiser. Loadout was 3x anni, 1x Hammer Barrage, 2x Harpoon pods, HVD and some vulcans. It was successfully participating on and near the front lines, among other ships. It reliably gets opportunity kills from the Harpoons, while its frontal unguided rockets push back attackers. The Hammer barrage was what I had available for the outfitting, but it did fire them successfully in real combat, cracking armor. No officer.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: FooF on April 19, 2020, 04:41:59 PM
You are all thinking too inside the box...

Safety Overrides. Plasma Cannon, 2 Heavy Blasters, 4 AM Blasters, Squall (to soften shields). "Press F+LMB to erase target."

 ;D
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Dri on April 19, 2020, 04:51:31 PM
Yeah, it does have some serious alpha strike potential. SO would help it get into range faster, wouldn't it? If its hull and armor are high enough, it just may get the chance to do it multiple times per battle. :o
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: FooF on April 19, 2020, 04:58:53 PM
You know, depending on the speed of this thing, SO with Assault Chaingun and Heavy MG in the Hybrids with all those Small Energy utilizing IR Pulse (+HEF) and an Autopulse or HIL would be ridiculous. I guess a Hammer Barrage in the Missile slot but I feel like we're getting into overkill territory.

Just use it like an up-gunned Hammerhead that also happens to have a murder-beam and an instagib launcher attached.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: FAX on April 19, 2020, 05:25:08 PM
A large energy & a large missile & some kinetics, okay there may be some similarities between new heavy cruiser and Prometheus MK.II.

Hammer barrage is good i think, like how i fit the Prometheus II. As for 2 hybrid slots, choose Needler or  Autogun will depend on the flux level it actually has IMO
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Scorpixel on April 19, 2020, 05:28:57 PM
Rarely do hardpoints and their arcs spell "i will cave your face in" that clearly, and despite that it still got decent speed and full coverage of pd slots.

A bad shield with high passive flux would be the obvious weakness (first midline cruiser to do so, Conquest and Sunder being BC and DD) so bet on stabilised/hardened combo if you want it to be closer that 1k+ range build. Other than that i'm already ignoring the small slots and fitting it as a super-Sunder.

However what's the name? Probably a very mean big bird. Terrorbird? Casoar? What's sure is that my first one will be Woody Woodpecker, the only appropriate name for something designed to drill skulls.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Dri on April 19, 2020, 06:08:55 PM
It surely needs better shield and flux stats than the Dominator. The Dom has 2 larges already + 3 extra medium missile (+one extra small slot but who cares). It appears to be decently fast, from the GIF but kinda hard to judge clearly, but then again the Dom has Burn Drive...
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: FooF on April 19, 2020, 07:27:50 PM
However what's the name? Probably a very mean big bird. Terrorbird? Casoar? What's sure is that my first one will be Woody Woodpecker, the only appropriate name for something designed to drill skulls.

Could go with the Thunderbird (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbird_(mythology)), I suppose.

Osprey?

Oh, I got it...The Whalehead (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoebill) (a.k.a. Shoebill) :P
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Goumindong on April 19, 2020, 09:00:50 PM
Yeah, it does have some serious alpha strike potential. SO would help it get into range faster, wouldn't it? If its hull and armor are high enough, it just may get the chance to do it multiple times per battle. :o

And also cut its range hugely. The dominator has burn drive and the Aurora has 80 base speed and plasma jets. The cut from ITU (which costs less) to SO is pretty huge, about 500 units for a plasma cannon, so 10 seconds of engagement time is lost if youre starting at the edge.

So i dont see it doing a lot there if its slower than an eagle and has no mobility active and has cruiser armor/shields and could be cycling HeF in the mean time.

Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Thaago on April 19, 2020, 09:41:08 PM
Name: Secretarybird! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretarybird)

I don't care that this would be a strange sounding name as it actually has "bird" in it - these things are awesome.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Grievous69 on April 19, 2020, 11:13:34 PM
Well the look of the bird and the look of the ship kinda clash so it's not really about the name. Bird with long, thin legs and then this beast.

Taking a second look at the ship I can't help but remind myself of the small energy weapon problem again. It seems those 4 frontal energies are turrets (perhaps with a narrow arc), so maybe you're gonna use them for PD, or Tac lasers. But let's say you have a Paladin PD as shown in the gif, what are your options then? Whatever you put there, you're cutting your effective range in half. Walking up to something with AM blasters is probably gonna take so long you won't even have the flux to fire it in the end. Ion cannons as shown are not terrible since at least they got some range, but it's going to take forever to kill anything and that's a lot of OP spent. Lastly the IR Pulse, the only assault weapon in smalls, again 500 range for a slow ship with no mobility is not really smart. In the end I see myself leaving those mounts empty and focusing on bigger mounts and hullmods (since we know it won't have amazing dissipation), unless I need some front PD.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Goumindong on April 20, 2020, 12:28:15 AM
I wouldnt worry to much about it. Alex is p good at the ship making stuffs

I cant help but feel it looks like the eraser head on a pencil. With the ridge being the metal groves before the eraser.

If we have to stick to bird names then a Turkey is a short, large, pungacous bird... but that assumes its a PL doctine ship. It could be on the conquest line of names so a victory, eraser, Preserver, defender, gatecrasher... it could also be on the hammerhead line and be a bull shark or a thresher. It could be aomething new and be called a Bulldozer. It could be on the Sunder line and could be something like a cleaver, demolisher, or perferator. It could be on the greek line (tgough should not be) and called a hercules. Or it could be a new line and he called whatever
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Grievous69 on April 20, 2020, 01:18:12 AM
Seeing as how the ship could be customized in many different ways, Whatever is a suitable name for it. It has a nice ring to it being midline and all.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Megas on April 20, 2020, 02:06:59 PM
The new cruiser sort of looks like an extra-large Hammerhead.  Call it... Jaws (great white)?
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Wyvern on April 20, 2020, 02:16:14 PM
You know what hits me, looking over that things' weapon mounts... it's very similar to the old Aurora, isn't it?
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Goumindong on April 20, 2020, 02:18:25 PM
Seeing as how the ship could be customized in many different ways, Whatever is a suitable name for it. It has a nice ring to it being midline and all.

Welcome aboard Player Ship Eh, a Whatever class heavy cruiser currently the backbone of of a fleet of Eagles and Falcons with majestic names like "Majesty" and "1ql3kjnasdlfasd"
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on April 20, 2020, 07:11:53 PM
Seeing as how the ship could be customized in many different ways, Whatever is a suitable name for it. It has a nice ring to it being midline and all.

Welcome aboard Player Ship Eh, a Whatever class heavy cruiser currently the backbone of of a fleet of Eagles and Falcons with majestic names like "Majesty" and "1ql3kjnasdlfasd"
Imagine the poor talon pilot that has to paint THAT on the ship's hull!
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: TheDTYP on April 20, 2020, 07:56:23 PM
I wonder which faction will field them.

Hegemony seems likely. The League uses the conquest, so it's not impossible. I would doubt the TT, Pirates, Luddites 1 and 2. Possible independent but rare. And I don't know the kinds of fleets the Diktat use or the Lions Guard, or whatever they are called.

What do you lot think?

This has the League and the Diktat written all over it.

Also, this thing is going to be a BEAST with high energy focus, good lord.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Igncom1 on April 21, 2020, 12:23:19 AM
I wonder which faction will field them.

Hegemony seems likely. The League uses the conquest, so it's not impossible. I would doubt the TT, Pirates, Luddites 1 and 2. Possible independent but rare. And I don't know the kinds of fleets the Diktat use or the Lions Guard, or whatever they are called.

What do you lot think?

This has the League and the Diktat written all over it.

Also, this thing is going to be a BEAST with high energy focus, good lord.

It's likely, but that said the League don't use cruisers like the eagle and this is a heavy cruiser after all.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Aereto on April 21, 2020, 09:07:26 AM
Spoiler
I wonder which faction will field them.

Hegemony seems likely. The League uses the conquest, so it's not impossible. I would doubt the TT, Pirates, Luddites 1 and 2. Possible independent but rare. And I don't know the kinds of fleets the Diktat use or the Lions Guard, or whatever they are called.

What do you lot think?

This has the League and the Diktat written all over it.

Also, this thing is going to be a BEAST with high energy focus, good lord.
[close]

It's likely, but that said the League don't use cruisers like the eagle and this is a heavy cruiser after all.
The League does field carrier cruisers, while the Diktat favors warship cruisers. This looks more like a Diktat ship than a League ship. The Hegemony has the Dominator and Eagle (pre and early Cruiser school disciplines).

The ship system means we get something besides the Sunder and Tempest for energy strike ships. (Sunder is the first large energy mount ship with HEF.) I normally use that with burst charge weapons or a plain Plasma Cannon. But boosting the ion cannon or pulser, despite the range, makes for an interesting upset.

And the Hammer Barrage gets some recognition on a proper forward mount besides the Gryphon and Legion XIV variant. Luddic Path ships made the weapon built in or a given, so doubt they'd count.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Eji1700 on April 21, 2020, 09:56:28 AM
I'm a little sad it's not low tech because I feel that roster needs fleshing out the most, but it does look cool and dear god those mounts.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Megas on April 21, 2020, 02:13:37 PM
Like Wyvern wrote, this ship seems much like old pre-0.7.2a Aurora, not only in mounts, but also High Energy Focus.  (Aurora's original system was High Energy Focus.)  I guess this is bringing back the old Aurora in a roundabout way.  Instead of two heavy blasters, player can use plasma cannon (or kinetics plus heavy beam).  I guess the mediums are hybrid and player could use two heavy blasters, but with the large energy mount, why do that when plasma cannon is a better energy weapon than mediums, not to mention ballistics are usually better than energy weapons.

Quote
And the Hammer Barrage gets some recognition on a proper forward mount besides the Gryphon and Legion XIV variant. Luddic Path ships made the weapon built in or a given, so doubt they'd count.
I would not count Pather ships since they have the weapon built-in, not to mention its Colossus is terrible.

Also, Cyclone Reaper.  Old Aurora with Cyclone Reaper and Missile Spec. was a killer.

Nitpick:  Conquest has forward mounts, but since it is a broadsides ship, dumb-fire missiles that do not point with broadsides is not very useful for such ships.  Conquest is as awkward as Apogee when it comes to missiles.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Dri on April 22, 2020, 11:45:48 PM
I wonder if the new light high-tech cruiser will have a new system or not.

Reading back on this, what? There is a light cruiser for hightech in the works too? Isn't the Aurora already pretty light? First I've heard of this.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Grievous69 on April 23, 2020, 12:20:16 AM
Not even close, I think ''light'' and ''heavy'' tags are more about potential firepower than speed. Since Dom and the new heavy midline cruiser are 25 DP, Aurora would then be a super heavy cruiser, or just elite. For its system, seeing how Alex said it'll be an upscaled Shrike, it's very possible it has a mobility system.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Abraxas on April 23, 2020, 08:25:42 AM
4 tac lasers + HIL + 2 HVD for the 1000 range supression platform.

IR/ion + 2 heavy needlers + Autopulse for instant ship deletion. Probably with SO, too (and HMG instead of needlers? depends on the speed).

The large missile is ALWAYS hammer barrage.

Or Hurricane.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Igncom1 on April 23, 2020, 08:31:10 AM
Not even close, I think ''light'' and ''heavy'' tags are more about potential firepower than speed. Since Dom and the new heavy midline cruiser are 25 DP, Aurora would then be a super heavy cruiser, or just elite. For its system, seeing how Alex said it'll be an upscaled Shrike, it's very possible it has a mobility system.

I though they were 'heavy' because they have large turreted slots? Making the Aurora a normal cruiser for only having mediums.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Grievous69 on April 23, 2020, 08:35:32 AM
I though they were 'heavy' because they have large turreted slots? Making the Aurora a normal cruiser for only having mediums.
Sooo Mudskipper MkII is an ultra heavy frigate. Actually I quite like the sound of it.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Igncom1 on April 23, 2020, 08:41:28 AM
I though they were 'heavy' because they have large turreted slots? Making the Aurora a normal cruiser for only having mediums.
Sooo Mudskipper MkII is an ultra heavy frigate. Actually I quite like the sound of it.

 8) The pirates are the true innovators! (But by god are those terrible ships, even when armed with medium guns they just SUCK.)
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: SCC on April 23, 2020, 09:29:07 AM
I thought of "light" and "heavy" descriptors as relating to their overall power. Light ships are less powerful and expensive DP-wise than their peers (and typically of higher burn level as well), while heavy ships are more powerful and expensive DP-wise.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Igncom1 on April 23, 2020, 09:33:23 AM
I suppose the falcon wouldn't make as much sense under that you are right as it still has medium slots!

I suppose the aurora is a medium cruiser because it's only contemporaries are a 'civilian' surveying ship and the DOOM. In other words it doesn't have a hightech contemporary to judge it heavier or lighter then the norm.... until now with the new light cruiser in the works I guess?
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: FooF on April 23, 2020, 09:40:59 AM
"Light" usually means a higher burn rating and less fuel consumption, "heavy" the opposite. Compare a Falcon and a Dominator to an Eagle.

I will say, though, that both light and heavy designations are a mixed bag. On the one hand, the light-type ships have the advantage of being a size larger than the class below them (i.e. Falcon can use DTU/ITU) even though their relative power is not much greater than the class they're up from. A Falcon is a Destroyer++, just like a Shrike is a Frigate++. However, they lose to those in their own class. Even the Battlecruisers (Conquest and Odyssey) are considered Capital-lite, logistically.

"Heavy," on the other hand are indeed stronger (on paper) than those in their class but have a larger logistical profile that puts them in a sort of no-man's land of not being the next size up but costing more than their peers. The Dominator is in the boat of having Capital-grade firepower but it really doesn't compete against true Capitals. The Paragon would probably be a "Heavy Capital" if such a thing existed.

This new Mid-Line is like the Dominator in that it is bringing heavy firepower to the mix, though I'd argue it won't have such glaring blind spots. How much better it will be than an Eagle has yet to be seen.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Igncom1 on April 23, 2020, 09:43:25 AM
I bet it gets one volley off before being murdered by stuff it it's own weight class. Unless you under-gun it considerably with gravitons and stuff.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: SCC on April 23, 2020, 10:27:58 AM
"Light" usually means a higher burn rating and less fuel consumption, "heavy" the opposite. Compare a Falcon and a Dominator to an Eagle.
Falcon is a light cruiser, yet doesn't burn less fuel than Eagle. Dominator is a heavy cruiser, yet it isn't slower than Eagle. A cruiser with higher than average burn level and fuel consumption would therefore be a Light-Heavy cruiser. Unless you remember that Centurion and Scarab both are heavy, yet burn no more fuel than other frigates. Oops.
I suppose the aurora is a medium cruiser because it's only contemporaries are a 'civilian' surveying ship and the DOOM. In other words it doesn't have a hightech contemporary to judge it heavier or lighter then the norm.... until now with the new light cruiser in the works I guess?
It has low-tech and midline ships to be judged against, because they exist and existed when Aurora was designed. And because Aurora is real expensive.

Though, arguably, currently in the game "light" and "heavy" aren't opposites, because "heavy" ships don't have lower burn level, than other ships of their size category. It doesn't help that we have only three "lights" and two "heavies", not counting carriers, because "light carrier" means a destroyer-sized carrier and there are no "heavy carriers".

I bet it gets one volley off before being murdered by stuff it it's own weight class. Unless you under-gun it considerably with gravitons and stuff.
Considering it can mount two heavy needlers and fire a HEF-boosted tachyon lance right after that, I wouldn't be so sure about that.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Megas on April 23, 2020, 10:37:27 AM
I bet it gets one volley off before being murdered by stuff it it's own weight class. Unless you under-gun it considerably with gravitons and stuff.
This is the problem I have with Gryphon.  If the new cruiser is just as fragile too, it would be Gryphon Mk. II.  Hopefully, the new ship is a resurrection of classic Aurora (with large missile and HEF).  The new ship needs cruiser-grade stats, which Gryphon does not have.

It looks like the new ship has front shields and limited PD options.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Igncom1 on April 23, 2020, 11:04:59 AM
True, yeah now that I am reminded of it Low Tech, Mid-line, and High Tech should almost be replaced by their manufacturer names rather then an indication of levels of technology. What with ships like the Onslaught essentially being more of the modem model of said ship, with a line going back 'eons.'

Quote
"Among the so-called "Cruiser School" wave of ships designed by Altair Exotech, the Gryphon was a key component of the power-projection strategy that came into vogue shortly before the collapse of the Gate system."
from the Gryphon's description. It sounds like Altair Exotech might have designed much of the Mid-Line ships, if the griffins style is an indicator of who originally designed them all.

Quote
"Historically the Heron represented a movement in Domain Armada strategy from a heavy capital ship doctrine based on overwhelming firepower toward a focus on strike craft and support cruisers that enable sufficient firepower to be quickly focused on weak points, a strategic shift that would reverse itself as a natural reaction against tradition from each successive generation of Armada officers. This process was occurring once more in the years immediately preceding the fall of the gate system and, in something of a coup for the so-called "Cruiser School", the forward-thinking Altair Exotech won the Heron design contract over the traditional manufacturer of heavy Armada warships, Orion Shipyards. "
from the Herons description. Possibly indicating that Orion Shipyards designed and built most of the low tech range.

Quote
"The Drover design was ordered by a new Cruiser-school-dominated Domain Naval Procurement Committee to provide a strategically versatile (though tactically limited) fighter platform with a low logistical overhead. The contract was won by Orion Shipyards, the traditional Armada ship-builder, in an effort to recover lost market share from the newer naval producers."
from the Drovers description. Or not! So Orion Shipyards designed the drover blueprint! What a twist!

Quote
"Ko Combine maintains that when positioned correctly in a combat situation and supported by strike-craft - as the anvil and hammer, respectively - simulations demonstrate that the Monitor significantly enhances convoy survivability against the average pirate attack. Prominent critics remain. "
from the Monitors description. The Ko Combine is a new one, don't hear much about them but here they are with a Mid-line frigate!

Quote
"The Scarab is a rare, experimental hull developed by the Tri-Tachyon corporation. Only a limited run of prototypes has been produced. "
from the Scarab description. I mean yeah now that I think about it TT were also at least involved in the creation of the Paragon too, although supposedly along with other backers.

Quote
"The Ko Combine r450 "Shepherd" sets the standard for civilian drone tenders with its unmatched reliability, low cost, and generous internal volume given to crew comfort."
from the Shepherd's description. My guys in the Ko Combine making the best damn frigate in the early game!

Quote
"A familiar ship to planetary civilians, the "Kite"-class aeroshuttle is the day-to-day reminder of Fabrique Orbitale's reputation for quality aeronautical engineering - a valuable specialty even in the age of space travel."
from the Kite's description. Fabrique Orbitale sounds interesting.

So overall that is Altair Exotech and Orion Shipyards who seem to have been competing for contracts whenever the Domains fleets switched back and forth from carriers to capital ships, or possibly just cruisers? I'm a little hazy on the specifics. Ko Combine who make some frigate designs. Tri-Tachyon who seem to make a scattering of high tech and possibly phase ship designs. And Fabrique Orbitale who make at very least, Kite shuttles.

Interesting at the very least, what with all of the factions using a mix of these manufacturers products for their fleets.


Quote
"Few serve with the Hegemony due to the high technological requirements that it imposes on orbital docks."
Astral.
Quote
"Most blueprints required to manufacture an Aurora-class ships are closely guarded corporate secrets, but a few have also seen service in the Hegemony Defense Force and rarely, in the hands of enterprising mercenary captains."
Aurora.

I know the hegemony use Wolf frigates, but hegemony Astrals and Auroras when! 14th Auroras!
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Scorpixel on April 23, 2020, 11:52:03 AM
Quote
"Few serve with the Hegemony due to the high technological requirements that it imposes on orbital docks."
Astral.
Quote
"Most blueprints required to manufacture an Aurora-class ships are closely guarded corporate secrets, but a few have also seen service in the Hegemony Defense Force and rarely, in the hands of enterprising mercenary captains."
Aurora.

I know the hegemony use Wolf frigates, but hegemony Astrals and Auroras when! 14th Auroras!

The Hegemony really inherits the "reliable, sturdy, and covered in boomsticks" of the XIVth battlegroup. The only reason they use wolves in the first place must be that they genuinely lack a low/mid hunter-killer.

There's the interesting concept of the IXth battlegroup (even if the mod "faction" doesn't even appear on the intel screen) who has a manoeuvre-based doctrine, and it's honestly more fitting for another sub-group to work on ships that already fit their requirements rather than have an Aurora slapped with heavy armour in the middle of a static battle line of dominators and onslaughts.

Still, 100% in favour of a designer-based ship classification rather than low/mid/high that can in the majority of cases be treated as noflux/ok/alltheflux.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Dri on April 28, 2020, 12:23:06 PM
Kinda funny how this cruiser reveal has it dominating a Mora while the hightech Fury can't even bring down the shields of a Dominator in its reveal lol
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: SCC on April 28, 2020, 12:26:45 PM
One is a 25 DP ship going against 20 DP one, the other is a 15 DP ship going against a 25 DP one.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Harmful Mechanic on April 28, 2020, 04:13:19 PM
Also, a 15 DP ship vs a 25 DP ship opens up the greater likelihood of two 15 DP ships vs one 25 DP ship in actual play; one of the nice things about lower-end cruisers is that they let you gang up on the higher-end stuff.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: TaLaR on April 28, 2020, 04:33:53 PM
If anything, introduction gif shows that AI is not smart enough for ships like Shrike/Fury to justify their existence. Both have no chance when fighting a Dominator from front, both could easily win by getting behind it.
Title: Re: Loadouts for new midline heavy cruiser (Alex's Twitter)
Post by: Thaago on April 28, 2020, 07:09:55 PM
If anything, introduction gif shows that AI is not smart enough for ships like Shrike/Fury to justify their existence. Both have no chance when fighting a Dominator from front, both could easily win by getting behind it.

The AI does well in this regard when things aren't 1 v 1: flanking ships naturally surround enemies. But yes, the AI does not prioritize attempting to strafe around slow turning ships enough - it seems to try and get out of the weapon arcs of front hardpoints, but not really go for the engine hits/disables.