Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => Mods => Topic started by: liam556 on February 03, 2020, 10:24:43 PM

Title: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.3c
Post by: liam556 on February 03, 2020, 10:24:43 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/4zsfz1G.png)
The asteroid ship pack is a simple ship pack that adds ships made from asteroids that can spawn on pirate and independent fleets.

Update 1.3c
https://github.com/Liam5563/astroidships-pack/blob/master/Asteroid%20ship%20pack%201.3c.rar?raw=true

This mod is still compatible with Industrial Evolution.
https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=18011.0

The ships:
NOTICE, none of these ships are mine. They come from the HELMET collection in the sprite dump.
http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=12896.0

Fighters
Orisis:
A very simple fighter made from fragments of asteroids. It is only slightly worse than a talon.
(https://i.imgur.com/XXWd5Xt.png)

Frigates
Boulder:
The boulder is a Frigate designed by pirates as a very cheap and easy way to have a simple ship used for basic missile suppression and is noted for being made out of random asteroids that float around the universe.
(https://i.imgur.com/cVy3dWh.png)
Stoner:
The Stoner is a basic Frigate artillery platform built by mashing some asteroids and floating satellite pieces together. It rarely works the way pirates expect it to.
(https://i.imgur.com/rmCQ0y9.png)
Havel:
The Havel is what happens when pirates decide that there needs to be more firepower coming from their captured asteroids. The Havel is the most powerful of the frigate sized asteroidships and should not be underestimated.
(https://i.imgur.com/KzCv84e.png)

Destroyers
Vesta:
The Vesta is an artillery platform made by pirates by taking larger asteroids out of asteroid belts throughout the sector. These ships are very well suited for combat despite being out of asteroids.
(https://i.imgur.com/YrizjFq.png)
Tholen:
Seeing the need for better firing arcs for their asteroid destroyers the pirates created the Tholen to better deal with enemy missile attacks. These ships are usually found backing up other ships but do not have the firepower to take on most ships of it's size very well.
(https://i.imgur.com/ykLFn1N.png)
Galileo:
The Galileo is a support vessel the pirates made after deciding that the stoner wasn't good enough and created a destroyer version of the same concept. This ship has the potential to be a formidable ship with the right load-out and captain but rarely ever is.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZYwdY4g.png)
Cruisers
Rock:
The Rock is a Light Cruiser created by the pirates for simple suppression of enemy ships. It barely counts as a cruiser as nearly every non civilian cruiser will almost always beat it in combat.
(https://i.imgur.com/YBoH3Is.png)
Cerus:
As the pirates continue to learn about construction with asteroids it was only time before they made a proper combat capable Cruiser. The Cerus is(aside from the Pebble) the most powerful of the asteroidships and should be considered an actual threat not much different than a Dominator but with much less armour as it mostly made from asteroid materials.
(https://i.imgur.com/oy65G9u.png)
Clanker:
The Clanker is a raiding Cruiser built with speed and hit and run tactics in mind. It may not have the straight up firepower that the Cerus has but don't let that deceive you into thinking this ship will be an easier fight.
(https://i.imgur.com/DzDPpW7.png)
Capital ships
Pebble:
The Pebble is the ultimate end all of ship construction using asteroids and as well as being made from them this ship is also known to have a shield created from a blueprint of the Paragon that was taken during a daring raid on the Port Tse Franchise Station #3 held by the Tri-Tachyon. This ship is easily one of the most powerful ships the pirates have access to.
(https://i.imgur.com/v9uI7yg.png)

Change log

update 1.3c

Pebble now has 50 DP. It's speed on all accounts(except top speed) have been lowered, and now has an OMNI shield. The Pebble's OP points, shield flux upkeep, crew, fuel/ly and supplies per month have been increased. Pebble's system id has been changed to Targeting feed. Some front small mounts have been moved to not collide with other weapons.

Update 1.3b

Pebble's system id has been changed to reserve deployment
Rock's turn acceleration has been slowed from 100 to 90
Clanker's turn acceleration has been slowed from 100 to 90 and acceleration have been slowed from 300 to 250

Update 1.3a

Vesta's and Tholen's fleet points have been lowered to 9
Rocks fleet points have been lowered to 10 and burn speed increased to 8
Cerus's system id has been changed to Accelerated Ammo Feeder
Both Rock and Cerus have had their shield arcs reduced.

Update 1.3

All ships(except Pebble, Stoner and Boulder) now have OMNI shields instead of FRONTs
Havel, Galileo, Rock, Cerus and Clanker have had their OP points increased.

1.2d
All Destroyer sized ships and above have had their market price dropped.

1.2c

Cerus's turn rate and acceleration has been reduced and Clanker's turn rate has been lowered again.

1.2b
Clankers Deacceleration and turn rate have been lowered.

1.2a
Now works on current game version.

1.2
Added support for Industrial evolution's new features
All destroyer and smaller ships have had their supplies per month reduced
All ships shields have been made less efficient and some have had their angles reduced.

1.1b
Changed some variants so the Orisis should spawn if it isn't already.

1.1a hotfix
Fixed the tags for the Orisis
Rock should appear less in fleets and pebble should appear more

1.1
Added a new Fighter Wing called Orisis

1.0a Vestas speed has been changed from 80 to 75
Pebble should be more aggressive now
Spelling mistakes have been fixed in the descriptions of the ships.

1.0 initial release
Title: Re: The Asteroid ship pack
Post by: Alexzzz on February 03, 2020, 11:41:56 PM
Looks like an interesting mod.  Do you plan to make them a separate faction eventually? 

Since the ships are partly rock I was expecting them to be tough but slow.   Your three cruisers are as fast or faster than the falcon, but have way more hitpoints.  Maybe slow them down some?  The destroyers are kind of fast too.



Title: Re: The Asteroid ship pack
Post by: liam556 on February 04, 2020, 03:57:39 PM
These ships are just a ship pack. I have no plans to turn them into a faction.
Title: Re: The Asteroid ship pack
Post by: Chairman Suryasari on February 04, 2020, 10:21:51 PM
These ships are just a ship pack. I have no plans to turn them into a faction.

Great! I love ship mod that give more options and not adding more faction.
Title: Re: The Asteroid ship pack
Post by: Chairman Suryasari on February 05, 2020, 10:51:53 AM
a bit of feedback,the pebble class, maybe you need change their behaviour, they're act so defensesively, even with aggressive officer, they're keep their distance in a fight it's almost impossible to take a harmless station with them, maybe if you make them more like legion or onslaught in their ship data to be more 'standoff' it's going to be more usefull than it's right now  :D

cheers  ;)
Title: Re: The Asteroid ship pack
Post by: Chairman Suryasari on February 05, 2020, 11:35:44 AM
also the ship tag kinda wrong, they're labeled as low_tech not low tech so it's become it's own type of ship.
Title: Re: The Asteroid ship pack 1.0a
Post by: liam556 on February 05, 2020, 03:32:31 PM
Update
version 1.0a
Vestas speed has been changed from 80 to 75
Tags have been changed to Low Tech
Pebble class ships should be more aggressive now

This is save game compatible
https://github.com/Liam5563/astroidships-pack/blob/master/Astroid%20ship%20pack%201.0a.rar?raw=true
Title: Re: The Asteroid ship pack 1.0a
Post by: beaster9999 on February 06, 2020, 11:59:42 PM
Hi Ive tried to download this mod and my machine says the rar is broken anyone else having trouble?
Title: Re: The Asteroid ship pack 1.0a
Post by: liam556 on February 07, 2020, 01:17:00 AM
Do you have WinRar? The mod downloads and works fine on my end.
Try this download.
https://github.com/Liam5563/astroidships-pack/blob/master/Astroid%20ship%20pack.zip?raw=true
Title: Re: The Asteroid ship pack 1.0a
Post by: RoquetheRogue on February 07, 2020, 10:31:30 AM
What a beaut! they look so good  :D

Do they have a Blueprint so I can make my faction use only those?
Title: Re: The Asteroid ship pack 1.0a
Post by: liam556 on February 07, 2020, 02:31:35 PM
These ships are part of the pirates blueprint package.
Title: Re: The Asteroid ship pack 1.1
Post by: liam556 on February 17, 2020, 01:51:05 AM
New update
1.1a hot fix
Added a new Fighter Wing called the Orisis(tags have been fixed)
Rock should appear less and Pebble should appear more in fleets
Should be save game compatible
https://github.com/Liam5563/astroidships-pack/blob/master/Astroid%20ship%20pack%201.1a.rar?raw=true
Title: Re: The Asteroid ship pack 1.1a hotfix
Post by: liam556 on February 17, 2020, 09:10:36 PM
Update 1.1b
Changes some variants of the Cerus and Orisis so they should spawn if they aren't already
save game compatible
https://github.com/Liam5563/astroidships-pack/blob/master/Astroid%20ship%20pack%201.1b.rar?raw=true
Title: Re: The Asteroid ship pack 1.1b
Post by: Alluvian on February 21, 2020, 08:37:03 PM
Excellent ship pack, quite like the asteroid theme when playing a low-mid tech path. Going to try starting up a pirate path character and see how well a mostly asteroid fleet will work out in the campaign.
Title: Re: The Asteroid ship pack 1.1b
Post by: Golde on August 24, 2020, 05:13:50 PM
Y'all don't understand that what y'all are actually looking at is one of the most hiddenedest gem of a mod.

these ships are actually truly masterpieces.

Removed a word -Alex
Title: Re: The Asteroid ship pack 1.1b
Post by: Alex on August 24, 2020, 05:36:05 PM
(... language, please.)
Title: Re: The Asteroid ship pack 1.1b
Post by: Modo44 on August 27, 2020, 04:07:10 AM
Cool mod. Not sure if the download has a typo on purpose or not, but it gave me a chuckle.
Title: Re: The Asteroid ship pack 1.1b
Post by: Kakroom on August 27, 2020, 12:30:28 PM
This is just flatout neat.
Title: Re: The Asteroid ship pack 1.1b
Post by: BigBeans on September 09, 2020, 07:00:11 PM
Dunno if this'll ever get updated but the Clanker could do with getting it's turn rate dropped a little. It turns so quickly it looks goofy.
Title: Re: The Asteroid ship pack 1.1b
Post by: liam556 on September 10, 2020, 02:55:25 AM
Dunno if this'll ever get updated but the Clanker could do with getting it's turn rate dropped a little. It turns so quickly it looks goofy.
Noted.
There is an update ready, I'm just waiting for industrial evolution to update with it's new blueprint options. my mod should be compatible with it.
http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=18011.0
Title: Re: The Asteroid ship pack 1.1b
Post by: BigBeans on September 10, 2020, 03:20:40 PM
I thought this was perhaps a dead mod. Good too hear it'll see another update!
Title: Re: The Asteroid ship pack 1.1b
Post by: SaberCherry on September 11, 2020, 11:02:47 AM
This looks incredibly cool; I'm going to grab it and try it out!

By the way, what would the implications be of making the type "Asteroid" versus "Low Tech"?  Does that affect anything?

Also, (if this isn't present already) I think it would be fun to have a built-in "Heavy Mass Driver" weapon like in Knights of Sidonia (which, incidentally, stars an asteroid ship) or Star Control 2's Druuge Mauler.  It would essentially shoot a high-velocity (well, low compared to most projectiles) small asteroid taken from its own body, with no distance limit.  Once launched this would just be like any other asteroid at that speed, for purposes of collisions, damage, momentum, etc.

Edit:

So on initial inspection, I've noticed:
1) Boulder (shuttle) is too small (size of a fighter); ships drilled out of rocks should be larger than equivalent ships made of actual metals.  Also it's WAY too cheap to deploy; it gets 2% CR to deploy and 6% recovery per day, yet has the loadout of a Kite.  Yet the maintenance is unreasonably high (3) for basically a low-tech drilled-out rock.  Also it has 180 degree shields with 15 flux upkeep, which seems absurd for a low-tech DIY pirate ship.  E.g. Mudskipper has no shield, while Shepherd has a 90 degree 1.2 shield, and they both have 20% deployment CR.

2) Cerus (cruiser) has extremely high stats with 16 small and 3 medium slots, plus a fighter bay.  And 300 degree 0.8 shields with 8000 base flux capacity, 600 base dissipation, and 75 speed...  on a gigantic rock.  Oh, and weak (400) armor?  I would expect DIY asteroid ships cobbled (heh) together by pirates to be very slow, with very heavy armor, weak or no shields, and insufficient flux, not... midline-grade shields, best-in-class powerplants, and near-best-in-class speed.  And all that for 15 deployment points?  Consider the specs of a (also 15 DP) Falcon (P); it could probably crush 3 Falcons.  At once.

Those are the only ships I've seen so far but while the art is fantastic, I think the balance could use a bit of tweaking.
Title: Re: The Asteroid ship pack 1.1b
Post by: liam556 on September 12, 2020, 04:58:57 AM
Alright, finally some proper criticism. It should be noted I've only recently gotten back into this game after playing others for a while so I've only fairly recently started to properly test my mod. Okay so first off these sprites are not mine and don't know how to sprite currently so you're going to have to deal the Boulder being to small. I have lowered it's maintenance and have half'ed it's shield arc, and i shall be doing some more testing with it's shield sometime later. The Cerus was defiantly to fast and it's speed has been lowered to 50 and has also had it's shield arc reduced.
These ships armour are weak because actual rock is nowhere near as strong as even poorly made steel plates. I also can't seem to find any sources on how heavy steel is compared to rocks/stones are so as far as i know rocks are not as heavy as steel compared to volume so that's why most of these ships are pretty fast. One final thing, the Cerus's DP is 20, i think you got the Rock Cruiser's DP confused with the Cerus's. I will be taking some better looks at the rest of these ships shields later and all these changes will be made public when that update of industrial evolution drops.
Title: Re: The Asteroid ship pack 1.1b
Post by: Modo44 on September 15, 2020, 03:52:23 AM
Personally, I like the low armour, all the hull points approach. It fits the very idea of these ships. I would consider lowering the supply cost (not deployment cost). Remember that the crew drain will add up for ships with this setup, so there has to be some incentive for a player to use them.

Yes, steel is denser than most rocks. However, you would not fill the entire shape of a ship with steel -- it would be some sort of grid structure instead. You would also not fly any light/loose rock asteroids, as they would not hold up to dynamic manoeuvres. So unless the people who decided to fly an asteroid can also safely hollow out much of it while retaining structural strength... I think you have to assume the weight is actually up there with a standard ship of comparable size.
Title: Re: The Asteroid ship pack 1.1b
Post by: liam556 on September 15, 2020, 08:09:52 PM
I have now finished all necessary balance fixes and are just waiting for industrial evolution to update.
Title: Re: The Asteroid ship pack 1.1b
Post by: BigBeans on September 20, 2020, 09:03:24 AM
I dunno if you've fixed it already but the Boulder is tagged as a cargo ship so it never deploys in combat.
Title: Re: The Asteroid ship pack 1.2
Post by: liam556 on September 27, 2020, 03:29:01 AM
The new update is finally released.
Update 1.2
https://github.com/Liam5563/astroidships-pack/blob/master/Astroid%20ship%20pack%201.2.rar?raw=true

Full change log:
Added support for Industrial Evolution's new Reverse Engineering and Derelict Industries
All destroyers and smaller ships have had their supplies per month reduced:
Boulder's has been lowered to 1
Stoner's has been lowered to 2
Havel's has been lowered to 3
Vesta and Tholen's has been lowered to 5
Galileo's has been lowered to 4
All ships(except Pebble) have had their shields made less efficient:
All ships(except Pebble) now have a shield efficiency lowered to 1.0
Cerus's shield arc has been lowered to 250
Title: Re: The Asteroid ship pack 1.2
Post by: liam556 on March 27, 2021, 04:49:47 PM
Update 1.2a is released.

https://github.com/Liam5563/astroidships-pack/blob/master/Astroid%20ship%20pack%201.2a.rar?raw=true

Changelog
Works with current game update.
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.2a
Post by: ShpunkY on March 28, 2021, 10:21:06 AM
hey what if there was a fuel/cargo ship made from asteroids ?
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.2a
Post by: liam556 on March 28, 2021, 07:57:49 PM
That would require me to learn how to make ship sprites, which is something I'd like to learn to do eventually but you'll have to wait a while as I'm currently make an update for another mod for a different game called Rule the Waves 2. Also there're some new tags in the ship data that are called c/s, c/f, f/s, f/f, crew/s and crew/f that are quite clearly for cargo/fuel ships so until I know what these mean a fuel/cargo ship made from asteroids wont happen at all.
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.2a
Post by: liam556 on March 31, 2021, 06:45:08 PM
Mini update, mod should work on every version of 0.95a instead of just RC-9(if it didn't already).

https://github.com/Liam5563/astroidships-pack/blob/master/Astroid%20ship%20pack%201.2a.rar?raw=true
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.2a
Post by: Flunky on April 01, 2021, 09:18:16 AM
Asteroid ships are incredibly maneuverable, which for the bigger ships is a little zany. Are they intended to be able to turn on a dime and go from full speed to full reverse quite so rapidly? The maneuverability, combined with the big hull values, make them quite the nuisance.

(And wait, Rule the Waves 2 has a modding community? I had no idea, and need to give that a look.)
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.2a
Post by: liam556 on April 01, 2021, 03:57:07 PM
Yes, the asteroid ships are supposed to be very fast and maneuverable. If you have a issue with a particular ship going to fast let me know and i'll take a quick look at it.

Also yes, rule the waves 2 does have a suprisingly large amount of mods on their forum.
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.2a
Post by: Flunky on April 03, 2021, 11:43:57 PM
I guess it's most pronounced with the Clanker given the pretty high speed for a cruiser and having maneuvering jets on top of the already-high maneuver. Cerus is more just annoying in its ability to pivot incredibly rapidly to bring its full frontload to bear on whatever tries to flank it - feels like the AI isn't always able to appreciate just how quickly an opposing Cerus can do so.
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.2b
Post by: liam556 on April 04, 2021, 01:42:58 AM
Update 1.2b
Clankers Deacceleration and turn rate have been lowered.
https://github.com/Liam5563/astroidships-pack/blob/master/Astroid%20ship%20pack%201.2b.rar?raw=true

This mod is also still compatible with Industrial Evolution
https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=18011.0
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.2b
Post by: liam556 on April 05, 2021, 02:03:03 AM
Update 1.2c

Cerus's turn rate and acceleration has been reduced and Clanker's turn rate has been lowered again.
https://github.com/Liam5563/astroidships-pack/blob/master/Astroid%20ship%20pack%201.2c.rar?raw=true
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.2b
Post by: DifficultyTweak on April 16, 2021, 10:01:33 PM
Update 1.2c

Cerus's turn rate and acceleration has been reduced and Clanker's turn rate has been lowered again.
https://github.com/Liam5563/astroidships-pack/blob/master/Astroid%20ship%20pack%201.2c.rar?raw=true

Clanker still turns too hard, AI likes to swing it around constantly when its being swarmed by frigates/destroyers.

Might want to take a look at HMI's junkship stats and see what you can do about the maneuverability for the asteroids, since the junkships turn like crap and I imagine would have theoretically identical performance to the asteroids.

Also, Fortress Shield on the Pebble is simply too powerful - Damper Field would probably make more sense both from a lore perspective and a balance one.
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.2b
Post by: Helldiver on April 17, 2021, 03:25:25 AM
Might want to take a look at HMI's junkship stats and see what you can do about the maneuverability for the asteroids, since the junkships turn like crap and I imagine would have theoretically identical performance to the asteroids.

IIRC the modder's intention is for asteroid ships to move more lightly to go with being mainly made of rock, which is less heavy than an equivalent volume of metal (in exchange for being more fragile).


One piece of feedback on the mod, while the asteroid ships aren't that expensive overall, some are surprisingly as expensive or more as production ships of similar size, which seems a little backwards.
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.2c
Post by: liam556 on April 18, 2021, 03:41:09 AM
Update 1.2d

All Destroyer sized ships and above have had their market price dropped.
https://github.com/Liam5563/astroidships-pack/blob/master/Astroid%20ship%20pack%201.2d.rar?raw=true
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.2d
Post by: Arcagnello on April 23, 2021, 06:59:10 PM
Hello there! I think this is about time for me to start giving some semi-early feedback and suggestions about these wonderful asteroid ships you've given me the chance of playing with! I don't feel any of the opinions listed below to have any particular order to them so I'll just number them for ease of writing.

1)I've been wondering if writing the "Astroid" written at least once on every ship description is a new term referring to the ships or a typo, by which you meant to write Asteroid.

2) I like the theme of these ships: low tech with a focus on having a plethora of small weapon fire to quickly saturate over the enemy if they get too close combined with agility and a lot of hull hit points to take punishment, but you could improve it even further with the following:

Considering the fact these spaceships are mostly made of a less dense, porous, even more insulating material than metal, how about having all asteroid ships come with Insulated engine assembly? it would personally only make sense for them to have quite the low signature compared to a normal, mostly metal.alloy built ship. Either do that or just manually tweak their signature profile to be lower.

3) You could even go a step further, which would make these ships quite funny: how about making all these asteroid based ships basically work like phase ships when inside asteroid fields? What I mean by this is that they would virtually work he same way as phase ships (0 signature, reducing fleetwide signature with diminishing returns)  but only when the fleet is inside an asteroid field/belt and the like. Could this even be done?

4)I've been playing with another mod called Vayra's ship pack and in that collection of awesome ships there is a particular one called the Oppressor. This one ship is very peculiar (and relevant in this reply) because it is the only ship in the game and the known modiverse to even have an integrated hullmod on it called Small Ballistic Integration, which reduces the Ordinance point cost of all small weapons installed on the ship by two Ordinance points. I could really see these ships making great use of this very underdog, novel Hullmod given the ships that would get it also get a minor rebalance in some aspects.

5) Speaking of minor rebalances, shields! I have read all the replies up to this point to make sure I did not obliviously repeat the exact feedback points without adding anything of my own and I also agree something has to be done with the shields on these ships.

I do not think the shield to damage ratio should be made worse.  I think it conceptually make sense a lot of senses that having a ship made out of rock would allow for better flux management and shield efficiency than the cruel embrace of a hull made of steel, which is much harder to expand were it to be crudely converted by pirates into a combat variant.

I would do another thing to the shields instead. Make them all low degree omni variants with barely enough speed to accommodate for the asteroid ships' very good handling. The reason behind this suggestion of mine is two fold:
-Low tech should not get 300ish degree, 1:1 damage ratio shields this easily
-All these asteroid ships are more or less spherical, it would make sense for a faction like pirates to try and be efficent in their novel ship design and manage to obtain surprisingly durable shields that rotate in the direction they are needed instead of covering an excessive amount of the ship.


Post Scriptum: I've got around 4 different asteroid ships in my fleet, two types of them with three integrated hullmods. I am in bed right now so the section of my feedback regarding individual ships in this mod will have to wait for tomorrow. Cheers!
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.2d
Post by: liam556 on April 24, 2021, 05:09:46 AM
Thanks for the feedback.

So
1) I thought I fixed that like a year ago. Well It is fixed now.
2) Personally I don't see much point in doing that, but I'll think about it.
3) I don't think that's possible
4) I'd rather not as that would require me to ether make my own version of that or force my mod to require someone else's mod which I'd rather not do.
5) I think I will most definably do this sometime in the near future.
Unfortunately there doesn't appear to be anyway to tweak signature profile or shield speeds so I can't do anything about that.
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.2d
Post by: Arcagnello on April 24, 2021, 11:14:18 AM
1)
Ah, I had a feeling Astroid wasn't a newly coined term you used  ;D
Don't feel bad about it at all by the way, I'm disgraphic and also have High Potential Autism, which you may have gotten a hint of if you read any of my threads/replies  ::)

2-3)
I Personally see it this way: these ships are going to be considered during early game by most people having this mod installed since they've got quite the appealing combination of short range firepower (very good versus Explorarium ships), bearable logistics, very low CR lossper engagement and remarkable survivability.

The issue with these ships preventing them to be appealing and find any use  after that initial phase of the campaign when you're willing to take just about anything in your fleet to meat it up is a combination of Low burn speed, generally short engagement range and very limited Ordinance Points.

Low burn speed is a big hit on early game exploration that more or less requires a very expensive hullmod to be installed for even just the Rock to not slow the whole fleet down. I am playing this mod alongside Underworld which made me find an Infernus (which I later adopted as my Flagship) in the fringes of the Sector that even without any D-mods still has an excruciating 6 burn speed, so I did not mind filling my fleet up with Asteroid Ships since they're all above than number (for now, have not seen the capital yet) but I can see how that can be a massive turning point (especially in Pirate Roleplay Campaigns) to a small fleet that would really like to be sneaky and/or go fast. The suggestion of giving all these ships Insulated Engine Assembly has the aim to provide players with an alternate way of playing the Pirate, with a much bigger emphasis on staying stealthy with a bigger, meaner fleet than a normal pirate would but that is pretty much unable to run away if detected. Then there's also to mention the fact this mod makes small to medium sized pirate fleets a lot easier to evade thanks to the very low burn speeds of even the smaller Asteroid Ships. Insulated Engine assembly would at least give them an easier time when trying to get the jump on you!


4)
None of these ships have any integrated range weapon debuffs like Unstable Injector or Safety Overrides (thank Ludd for that. I could see them being a bit too effective if that were the case if they were deployed en-masse), but they all nonetheless suffer from a very low average engagement range even when compared to other pirate vessels, and it mostly revolves around the size and quantity of weapon mounts. These ships are, by design, filled to the brim with small ballistic turrets and a very sparce presence of medium/large sized ones. This means all these otherwise very competitive low tech ships suffer from massive, massive range issues and flux management since all the best small ballistic weapons only get up to 700 range and you can barely have any due to them being very flux intensive.

Even the best duo of small energy weapons with decent range (railguns/light needlers+light assault guns/heavy mortars) really begins to suffer extremely hard from the lack of any high damage option to tear thru any heavy armor or strong shields, Railguns/needlers may have very good flux stats for the damage they do but their Ordinance Point cost is just thru the roof, meaning it just applies further strain to to already very sparce amount of Ordiance Points most of these ships have at their disposal.
The best setup I got working on most ships is Hypervelocity Drivers on most medium ballistic slots for as much long range kinetic as I could, to then dedicate the plethora of small ballistic weapons to be as Ordiance Point Efficient as possible, therefore simply slamming vulcans and Light Mortars.

Light Ballistic Integration would adress this issue in a much more nuanced manner, but the bottom line of me suggesting it is that most of these ships need more Ordiance points across the board if their main pirate-flavoured shtick is using a lot of small ballistic weapons. As most of them would realistically go with half if not more of those staying empty in order to fit important hullmods/vents unless a significant amount of hullmods is integrated into them.


5)
I can't wait to see what you do with the shields and how these ships are going to feel like once you put more love into them!


Post Scriptum: Have you went over the handling of the Rock Cruiser by the way? I legit had to install advanced turret gyros for even the fastest turning small kinetics to stay on target. I'm also under the opinion the ship as a whole would greatly benefit from being downgraded to a Destroyer, as its minuscule 110 Ordinance Point pool can't realistically handle the Cruiser-price of hullmods, unless they are integrated.



Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.2d
Post by: liam556 on April 26, 2021, 03:17:46 AM
Update 1.3

All ships(except Pebble, Stoner and Boulder) now have OMNI shields instead of FRONTs
Havel, Galileo, Rock, Cerus and Clanker have had their OP points increased.

This update should be save game compatible
https://github.com/Liam5563/astroidships-pack/blob/master/Asteroid%20ship%20pack%201.3.rar?raw=true
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.2d
Post by: Arcagnello on April 26, 2021, 06:01:50 AM
Nice!
Quote
All ships(except Pebble, Stoner and Boulder) now have OMNI shields instead of FRONTs

Going to test around the two Cerus, Rock and Galileo I've currently got in my fleet to see what the omni shields behave!

Quote
Havel, Galileo, Rock, Cerus and Clanker have had their OP points increased
I'll give the asteroid ships a go to see how they feel right now, I guess I'll see how much Ordinance Points you added whenever I load the game!

Side Note: I gave my one Galileo (as an italian, you make me proud) a full Salamander loadout with ECCM with all other weapons being point defence, but it has the same issue as the vanilla Gryphon, where since it is not a carrier it will behave like a fontline combat vessel and try and get in range of the enemy to be able to shoot it with point defence weapons instead of staying at range and pelt it with long range, guided missiles instead.

Would it be possible to swap the AI of the Galileo from a standard combat ship to the one of a carrier? Meaning it will actually hang back and not get close to the enemy if it has nothing but point defence and missiles and does not have an aggressive/reckless officer overriding it? It should still behave like a direct fire combat ship if given offensive kinetic weapons/unguided rockets.


Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.3
Post by: Arcagnello on April 26, 2021, 10:10:04 AM
I'm back from 30 minutes of fiddling with my three asteroid ship classes in my fleet. The update seems to work just fine when stapled onto an ongoing campaign by the way, so no worries there  :)

Cerus Heavy Cruiser

Changes: Ordinance Point value increased from 170 to 190,  280(ish?)° front shield changed to 130°degree omni shield

How I feel about it:
It now definetly, definetly has enough ordinance points to not only comfortably fill all the weapon slots but also some very important hullmods like Heavy armor (which doubles the armor value) and ITU.

Now, 190 feels like a lot of Ordinance Points for a 20FP cruiser, but both the fact this ship has cruiser prices for the hullmods and the fact that mediums and especially small weapons are incredibly OP inefficient proves it's just enough to equip all the things.
I would honestly cut the omni shield coverage further down to 125, 120 degrees as that is barely enough to cover it from whatever it's pointing it at, not to mention preventing people picking this up and basically getting the same, nearly 300° front shield it had before.

The last thing that I'm not too sure about the Cerus is the ship ability: Burn Drive. I'd wager something like Advanced Ammo Feeder as a ship skill would work a lot better for two reasons.
1) Giving what basically amounts to a Pirate Dominator with an Asteroid as hull 50 top speed and burn drive more or less makes it able to chase and butcher anything faster than itself also thanks to the agility and the very generous front weapon angles, with the only weapons  not really being able to keep firing at, say, a Frigade evading the Burn Drive being the one Medium Ballistic and the 4 Composite bolted at the front. It's a bit too good at competing in mobility not only with Cruisers but also destroyers and even some of the slowest frigades.
2) I feel Accellerated Ammo Feeder would make a lot more sense on the Cerus since it's the ship with the most concentrated firepower per Deployment Point in the whole mod and, if I were to assemble a fleet completely made of Asteroid Ships, I'd have one or two of these escorting the Pebbles and use them as mobile gunboats to both combat the approaching enemies but also provide impressive point defence coverage with the ammo feeder. The lack of a mobility skill further adding to the ship's already impressive mobility would also prevent it from absolutely deleting anything too small to contest it at short range and unable to get away from it.

I could see it being bumped up to something like 22 Deployment Points (Having it compete with the Eagle and only being 3FP cheaper than the Dominator) if it did get Ammo Feeder tough, since that would make it a lot scarier to anything going slower than 50 speed while in combat.

This is the setup I feel happy about using. It's got one set of long range weapons (the three mediums) and another for shor range (two Dual Autocannons, two light assault guns) and vulcans everywhere else.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/ZFolR2h.png)
[close]


Rock Light Cruiser

Changes: OP from 110 to 120, 300(ish)° Front Shield converted into a 140 degree omni shield

How I feel about it:
The Rock still really struggles OP wise considering the amount of weapon mounts and the fact it gets the same OP cost for hullmods as the Cerus, but I'm pretty sure that is by design. This is quite the twitchy cruiser that can reliably go around and hunt frigades by itself, while it generally really struggles against destroyers due to the weapon composition being very short ranged. 10 more ordinance points really go a long way to at least make it fit Dedicated Targeting Core/Integrated Targeting unit.

I think it still needs the shield further trimmed down in coverage, 130-125 degrees should be enough to barely cover it from what it is fighting and that's more than enough for how good of a shield it really is for an original Pirate Vessel.

One more thing I'd personally love to happen if for this ship to actually become a Destroyer, not a Cruiser. Frankly speaking, it's too small and having it pay cruiser OP amounts for hullmods absolutely butchers it. In addition to that, being a cruiser makes it compete with the Clanker, which has the same role and even ship system but brings more ordinance points and more weapon mounts for just 5 more Deployment Points to the table.

As for changes during the transformation into a destroyer, I'd compensate for the fact Targeting Core/ITU provide an inferior bonus by giving the Rock a slight top speed increase, making it even better at hunting frigades and small destroyers now that it's significantly outclassed by cruisers and above.

This is my current build for the one Rock I have in the fleet. Don't look at the integrated hullmods. I was litterally drunk the moment I spent three story points on it.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/We5GTaJ.png)The name of this particular Rock is a nod to the animated parody "TRANSformers" by Flashgitz on Youtube. It's great, just don't watch it while someone is around  ::)
[close]

Galileo Support Destroyer

Changes: OP from 80 to 90

How I feel about it:
I love this thing. It's so damn good when set to escort the other Asteroid Ships and providing missile fire support, sspecially now that it can fit 7 Salamander missiles plus ECCM, decent defence, reinforced bulkheads and have points to spare for something else too!

The only problem I have with this adorable missile vomiter is as stated in the previous reply connected to the Destroyer AI, pushing it into range to shoot at the enemy with its weapons even if it has nothing but point defence and long range support missiles. I don't think it's either lacking or too good at its job. It does what it's built for well and gets butchered when attempting anything else, the end.

This is the setup I'm using, it could honestly work with Harpoons aswell, even pilums if we're ever going to get a vanilla pilum for small missile mounts.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/LMHLyJT.png)
[close]







Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.3
Post by: liam556 on April 27, 2021, 02:49:35 AM
Having just some simulator battles with the Galileo I can safely determine that the issue your having with the A.I. is the fact your putting it on escort duty which is making the ship get to close to the enemy, however I've just changed the how the A.I. will use the ship and it now pretty much guarantied to stay as far away from enemy ships as it can.

Now to just give the Cerus Accelerated Ammo Feeder and see how well that does and the next update will be ready.

Oh, and I don't plan on changing the Rock to a Destroyer. The Rock was built from the ground up to be a poor cruiser whose only redeeming traits are good speed and cheap to buy and maintain. I have given it a few buffs so it should be a bit better to use in the campaign.
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.3
Post by: liam556 on April 27, 2021, 03:20:21 AM
Update 1.3a
https://github.com/Liam5563/astroidships-pack/blob/master/Asteroid%20ship%20pack%201.3a.rar?raw=true

Changelog:
Vesta's and Tholen's fleet points have been lowered to 9
Rocks fleet points have been lowered to 10 and burn speed increased to 8
Cerus's system id has been changed to Accelerated Ammo Feeder
Both Rock and Cerus have had their shield arcs reduced.
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.3
Post by: Arcagnello on April 27, 2021, 03:54:28 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iwOQKnQUy0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iwOQKnQUy0)

Wooo!
Galileo
Can't wait to see it in action now! I reckon it's going to be used a lot more by very capital happy fleets wanting to make enemy destroyers, cruisers and battlecruiser's lives miserable!
Rock
The changes are quite a welcome surprise, I did not expect it to go that way but it makes a lot of sense for it to have done so! It's going to be the ultimate Walmart Cruiser and I love it. The only slight issue I could see is that 10DP might be a bit too low (still have to test it, will come back for feedback), 11 or 12 to put it in the same ballpark as the Sunder or, Ludd Forbid, the Medusa (may the poor Rock rest in little asteroid pieces) would feel right.
Cerus
Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMGWJNRoWPE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMGWJNRoWPE)
[close]
I can't wait to get in the campaign and try it out, but I can guarantee you people fighting it in the future will have their situation go from 0 to 100 real quick, especially if you go ahead and make an autofit variant with safety overrides *Shudders*
The shield changes seem OK. They both be more than enough for the ship to have and will provide incentive for players to actually flank them and start working their hull points down!

Will update once I update the mod and try the asteroid ships I have out in the campaign!

Update

Cerus changes look really nice, the shield reduction is also barely enough to cover whatever it is fighting against so that's also good (same applies to the Rock)
Galileo now properly distances himself from the enemy when equipped with support weapons
Rock has some issues, for one the tooltip and the simulator indicate it still somehow is still 15Fleet Points. The Burn speed increase to 8 did go through tough!
Simulation FP:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/B3eLodE.png)
[close]
Stats in the refit screen:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/bfu4KLB.png)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.3a
Post by: liam556 on April 27, 2021, 06:22:53 AM
Starsectors fleet points are very weird sometimes. If you look at the stock ship CSV file the Dominator is supposed to have 15 fleet points but actually has 25, the Legion has 28 but actually has 40. The underworld ships you have also have this problem. The Stalker is supposed to have 14 but actually has 20 and the Infernus is supposed to have 28 but actually has 50. Also the Cerus is supposed to have 22 FP now.
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.3a
Post by: Arcagnello on April 28, 2021, 02:45:41 AM
Starsectors fleet points are very weird sometimes. If you look at the stock ship CSV file the Dominator is supposed to have 15 fleet points but actually has 25, the Legion has 28 but actually has 40. The underworld ships you have also have this problem. The Stalker is supposed to have 14 but actually has 20 and the Infernus is supposed to have 28 but actually has 50. Also the Cerus is supposed to have 22 FP now.

Huh, did not know the game was wierd like that! I'll let you know how I feel about the other asteroid ships the moment I get them, but they all seem to fill their own unique spot in the mod now that the Rock-Clanker competition got solved and  :)

Also, Holy Ludd, the modding subsection of the forum is like a shark feeding frenzy over a fresh new whale carcass. Not even 24 hours have passed and this thread is already down the second page!
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.3a
Post by: Arcagnello on April 29, 2021, 05:18:01 PM
I am going to bed now, but I just wanted to say I've finally managed to build myself two Pebble Asteroid Battlecarriers back in my colony and after around an hour in the refit screen I can safely say it's an amazing capital ship, and probably the only asteroid ship that's strong enough for late game.


A quick list of things that stand out about the ship, I'll probably be able to produce better feedback tomorrow when I'm not writing on the phone and near to collapsing asleep in my bed. Considering it is 40FP:

1)It has fortress shield and 35000 hullpoints with very mediocre armor. The thing puts even the XIV Onslaught to shame when it comes to just surviving anything thrown at it.

2)It has 35 speed and very impressive (maybe too impressive) handling, in line with all asteroid ships

3)It's probably the only ship in both vanilla and the entire modiverse that can field Fortress Shield, at least 1 large ballistic weapon and fighter bays. Which is absolutely crazy wonky, especially considering it's made my the pirates!

5) There are two light ballistic hardpoints in the bottom left of the ship that make no functional sense whatsoever and that could very well fit a medium, even a large hardpoint.

6) There's also another strange, circular part in the middle-right section of the ship where a medium, 360° turret would fit very well on top of.


I think this is the 40FP ship that needs the least help in the form of integrated Hullmods and an officer to beat the Simulation Paragon under complete AI control.
I will cover why I believe the following statement extensively tomorrow, but I think the ship needs a bump to 45 Fleet Points or even 50 (with minor buffs) to properly fit into this mod's power scaling of ships. It is scary good, especially under AI control and a setup that can "exploit" the Fortress Shield with, like the following:

Hullmods: Hardened Shields, Stabilized Shields, Integrated Targeting Unit, Expanded Deck Crew

Weapons: 1 Gauss and Two Hypervelocity Drivers in weapon group 1, All missile slots filled with Salamanders and linked togheder and on weapon group 2, all small ballistic mounts filled with light machineguns (apart from the two hardpoints) and on weapon group 3.

Fighter LPCs: Three Khopesh Rocket Bombers

Rest of the OP: Vents

Hullmods to be integrated: Heavy Armor, Reinforced Bulkheads, Hardened Shields
Additional hullmods to add after integration: Solar Shielding, Armored Weapon Mounts, Blast Doors.
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.3a
Post by: Arcagnello on May 03, 2021, 04:42:55 PM
Popping back to say that I'm still testing the Pebble as I approach the final segment of this campaign.

All I can say for now (without writing too much while in bed with my phone) is that it would feel a lot better at 50DP with minor rebalances to its stats (and weapon mount size/number).

Having a 3-bay battlecarrier with good flux stats,  kinetic mounts + a plethora of missiles, an amazing 360 shield and the Fortress shield ability stay at 40-45DP would require it to be even MORE constricted by the lack of Ordinance Points than a Legion to fall within Vanilla game balance, while being slightly less expensive than a Paragon at 50FP could make the Asteroid Capital shine without feeling gratuitous.
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.3a
Post by: Qipchak on May 04, 2021, 06:24:14 AM
I also tested the Rock Capital. Its good, but not OP. I played it with Reaper Torpedoes, Forward Railguns and 3 Heavy Maulers - no large gun. It has 40 DP, same as Onslaught. It has more agility but less armor. I basically hull tanked that ship. Firing till max flux, venting by tanking hull, firing again. So the staying power of the ship is payed with more supplies needed for repairing hull damage. I would keep the DP cost but would remove the Fortress Shield for Maneuver Jets or something weaker like Flares or Reserve Deployment for the Drones.

I really like the style of the rock ships. High hull ships with focus on smaller guns but mediocre armor and lower ranges due small gun focus. They are unique. Oh the enemy has fired some holes into our ship. Just melt some stony bois and fill the gaps.
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.3a
Post by: Helldiver on May 06, 2021, 01:26:45 PM
I think there are problems with the Clanker's movement. One is that it changes movement direction (i.e reversing) faster than frigates.

The other may have something to do with AI and how it treats collision on the Clanker specifically. The Clanker when used by AI acts as if it's much smaller than it is and constantly pushes against friendly ships. For example, if a friendly ship is between the Clanker and an enemy ship, the Clanker will ram the friendly ship and push against it while trying to get closer to the enemy ship. It also does this at the start of battle if there are friendly ships that spawn in front of it. It will run into them trying to squeeze between ships that even a Kite couldn't have passed between.
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.3a
Post by: liam556 on May 06, 2021, 06:50:54 PM
Update 1.3b
https://github.com/Liam5563/astroidships-pack/blob/master/Asteroid%20ship%20pack%201.3b.rar?raw=true

Pebble's system id has been changed to reserve deployment
Rock's turn acceleration has been slowed from 100 to 90
Clanker's turn acceleration has been slowed from 100 to 90 and acceleration have been slowed from 300 to 250
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.3b
Post by: Arcagnello on May 07, 2021, 05:26:39 AM
Opening this reply with an "I'm sorry it took 4 days" and the "I was busy driving two of these around the sector, dabbing on [Redacted]" excuse. But I am ready now!

Quote
Pebble's system id has been changed to reserve deployment
I believe this is a logical, balance change if you want to keep the ship at 40 Deployment Points, but I'm under the impression the ship is in the same boat as the Infernus Battlewagon From Underworld: It's too big to stay at 40FP and it would just get its signature features butchered if it tried. 50DP would give it a lot more room to be its own ship while not sacrificing any aspect of what makes it unique, so here's my argument for the Pebble to become 50DP:

Stats
First things first, here's the stats of the Pebble Battlecarrier
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/cc9iGzF.png)
[close]
and the Paragon Battleship, for comparison, since it supposedly has the same shield and the same ship system (maybe, eventually)
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/jP64sjE.png)
[close]


The shield, the ship system and the flux stats
I fully support the idea of degrading the shield to damage ratio of it from 0.6 to 0.8, but everything else somehow varies from the original ship for some reason:
1)The Paragon has a 360 Omni shield with horrid raise rate, while the Pebble for some reason has a 360 front shield that's inherently faster raising
2)The Paragon (the one that's 60DP) has a shield that generates 750 flux per second just to stay up while the Pebble (that's supposedly a Pirate conversion and is currently worth 40FP) has a shield that only generates 450 flux per second.

Making the assumption the Pebble is raised from 40 to 50DP, it would be a neat balancing factor to give it the exact same shield and ship ability as the paragon but with a 0.8 ratio instead, which would mean having the player invest in quite the amount of Ordinance Points (which would be lower than the Paragon's) to get the shield in shape for battle, if he/she decides to even think about installing flux hungry weaponry.

As an example, Hardened Shields, Shield Conversion: Front and Stabilized shields cost a whopping 63 Ordinance Points to install and only one of those hullmods is eligible for Integration with a Story Point.

Both flux dissipation and flux capacity feel absolutely fine the way the are. I don't think any change is warranted even if the ship is buffed up to 50DP.


Ordnance Points
The current iteration of the ship has 300 Ordinance Points and believe me when I say it's barely enough to give it everything you want it to have, considering it has
-3 Fighter bays
-17 small Ballistic, 4 small Composite and 5 Small missile mounts (not even considering those two small hardpoints)
-2 medium ballistic, 2 medium composite mounts
-1 large hardpoint

The weapon setup (that uses all weapon mounts as a prerequisite) that's been working best for me is the following:
Spoiler
3 Khopesh Rocket Bombers
17 Light Machineguns
9 Salamanders, 2 Salamander MRMs
2 Hypervelocity Drivers
1 Gauss Cannon

Light Machineguns are both cheap and effective, but they also provide quite the good kinetic power to drive off the enemy with, especially good if you also have Elite Point Defence raising their range even further.

Triple Khopesh Wings deal amazing damage to slow moving or otherwise immobilized targets, for which I needed...

13 Salamanders all firing off at the same time, ensuring the ship is immobilizing enemies left and right

The Two HVDs and the One Gauss both provide long range kinetic firepower and combine very well with the Fortress shield, allowing them to keep most of their damage potential as the ship keeps activating the Fortress Shield.
This setup can beat the Simulation Paragon almost undamaged
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/nwwaBxF.png)
[close]
 
[close]

Considering this ship is basically an amalgamation of a Mora's fighter bays, a degraded Paragon's shield and the kinetic/missile/composite weapons of a few cruisers fues togheder, being bumped to 50DP and have the Ordinance Point pool slightly increased to something like 340-350 would make a lot of sense and still be inferior to not only the Paragon (which has 370) or the Onslaught (which has 360, the XIV variant has 370).

The Weapon Mounts
This is the one nitpick I have with the ship's design as a whole. Some mount positions don't make sense, some others overlap with one another despite the ship being absolutely massive and there also are strangely empty spots that could fit turrets a lot better than current positions, in order and assuming it would even be worth pursuing:

1)
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/KGT0CWK.png)
[close]
-The small ballistic turret in the top left could be moved further right to not be almost over the small missile hardpoints.

-the spot in the top-center is very crowded. I would personally remove the small ballistic turret right in front of the large hardpoint and move that one small ballistic turret a tad down and left to not touch the missile hardpoint and be abit more inside the hull.

2)
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/2CNB8so.png)
[close]
-The center-left spot seems absolutely perfect for a 360° medium ballistic turret
-There's quite the massive empty spot just below the main bridge, I could perfectly see a backward facing, 180 degree arc, medium ballistic turret there too
-Those two small ballistic hardpoints in the bottom right corner have no functional purpose to be there, I would remove them for a medium ballistic hardpoint in their stead and also remove the middle small ballistic turret in front of where it would be placed to not overlap.

I could see the 1) changes applied regardless of the shiip being moved to 50DP or not, while the 2) changes would nicely accompany the ship's higher Deployment Cost and slightly improved OP pool if it was moved to 50DP.

Durability, Top Speed and Handling
Darting off to aspects of the ship I have not yet covered:

The Durability of the ship beyond the shield is both  incredible and fitting of a ship this size and made out of Asteroids. I would not change it regardless of the ship staying 40DP or being moved up to 50.

The 35 Top Speed of the ship is really, really impressive (keeping the theme of asteroid ships going) for something this size and I feel it's perfectly adequate, the handling on the other ship is, on the other hand, a bit too much, to the point when it becomes absolutely mental with the presence of an Officer with Helsmanship, Auxiliary Thrusters or even both, I would personally cut it down a notch.

Maintenance, fuel economy and CR
I had not looked at these numbers all that much before, but they have some strange connotations to them:
-Maintenance is fine, all asteroid ship roughly have a Supply/Month maintenance cost that's around 6o-65% of their DP. It would also mean bumping the current 25 Supply/Month of the pebble to 30-35 if it was moved to 50DP tough.
-Maximum Crew and Skeleton Crew values are quite strange. This ship is basically double the size of a Legion with a lot more weapon mounts and only one less fighter bay, but are you telling me the ship can only house 700 crew at most (Legion can hold 1500) and only needs 540 to properly run legion requires 700)?
-Cargo and Fuel capacity are in line with the ship's size, but the Fuel/Light Year, Jump Cost value is really, really low at just 12 while, by comparison, both Onslaught and Legion have 15 despite litterally being half the Pebble is. Assuming the ship uses double the thursters (to move double the volume, if not more) and has the same 0.65 efficiency of the Monthly Maintenance, a more sensible fuel ecomomy would be around 20, 22.


This about covers everything that was on my mind after playing a whole campaign with two pebble Battlecarriers tagging along, assume I'm perfectly fine with all the stats of the pebble I did not mention.
One last piece of feedback I'm going to give is about the Reserve Deployment you gave it instead of Fortress shield. It is a nice system to keep the fighter bays functional a bit longer, but it hamfists the ship setup to use fighters instead of bombers quite a bit, while a system like Targeting Feed (from the Heron) would keep the ship open to using both bomber and fighter LPCs, not to mention actually justifying that giant radar dish in the back of the ship.

Anyway, have a good one liam556, I'll love this mod regardless of where you decide to take it  :)

Oh and by the way, this mod is arguably the best one for WH40K Orc Roleplay campaigns, along with Junker Ships from HMI:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHgu_fBlSjk&t=71s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHgu_fBlSjk&t=71s)
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.3b
Post by: liam556 on May 07, 2021, 11:27:41 PM
Update 1.3c
https://github.com/Liam5563/astroidships-pack/blob/master/Asteroid%20ship%20pack%201.3c.rar?raw=true

Pebble now has 50 DP. It's speed on all accounts(except top speed) have been lowered, and now has an OMNI shield. The Pebble's OP points have been increased to 340, shield flux upkeep is now 540, crew requirements are now 800, fuel/ly has bee increased to 22 and supplies per month have been increased to 30. Pebble's system id has been changed to Targeting feed. Some front small mounts have been moved to not collide with other weapons.
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.3c
Post by: Arcagnello on May 08, 2021, 12:27:54 AM
Nice!
I'll get back to testing it the moment I get to continue my campaign! Really looking forward to what I can squeeze out of the ship with extra OP and a damage focused ship ability!
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.3c
Post by: Blorg on May 09, 2021, 01:28:39 AM
Wonderful. Rarely meet a good pack of non-high-tech ships.
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.3c
Post by: Arcagnello on May 09, 2021, 06:10:40 AM
Wonderful. Rarely meet a good pack of non-high-tech ships.

Indeed. Having more low tech alternatives really makes Starsector shine, they may even provide for solid alternatives for endgame, altough currently High Tech is very, very strong and basically impossible to beat in the "fight power" per Deployment Points ratio.

Welcome to the forum by the way, fellow Asteroid Ship conosseur!
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.3c
Post by: latua95 on May 13, 2021, 03:09:54 AM
hello?
Can I reprint your mod
URL here https://www.fossic.org/
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.3c
Post by: liam556 on May 13, 2021, 04:40:52 AM
No, you may not reprint my mod.
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.3c
Post by: latua95 on May 13, 2021, 07:54:58 PM
Sorry
I disturbed you
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.3c
Post by: Arcagnello on May 19, 2021, 02:58:19 AM
Welp, this took a while. Got a bit too taken away playing Starsector and not being on the forum all that much  :-X

I'll just say Asteroid Ships as a whole feel really great now, not only when playing with them early/mid game (and even late game for the Pebble) but they also bring quite a lot of new enemy variety to pirates!

I've had this moment in early game when I hunted a bounty and it had, at my dismay, an officered Cerus that definetly had Systems Expertise and a good weapon setup. It absolutely deleted 4 of my frigades going at it one by one before I could take it down  ;D
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.3c
Post by: Null Ganymede on August 21, 2021, 03:12:28 AM
Question.

How are ships made of literal rocks this maneuverable?

We're talking low tech levels of dakka on these things, but also nimble af? Like what? It's nice giving pirates something threatening but the stats don't match the looks.
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.3c
Post by: liam556 on August 21, 2021, 05:29:36 PM
Well the idea is that rocks are lighter than the equivalent amount of steel so these ships can go faster than ships of similar sizes due to being made from lighter materials. To try and balance this the ships have very low amounts of armour but a lot of hull points so its easier to disable their weapons and make them lose crew.
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.3c
Post by: slowpersun on August 23, 2021, 01:53:25 AM
Well the idea is that rocks are lighter than the equivalent amount of steel so these ships can go faster than ships of similar sizes due to being made from lighter materials. To try and balance this the ships have very low amounts of armour but a lot of hull points so its easier to disable their weapons and make them lose crew.

In space, everything weighs the same.  Mass varies.  It's a mod... for a game... that is an abstraction... of something that isn't real.  Just assume the mod author wanted to balance this against vanilla game options.
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.3c
Post by: Helldiver on August 23, 2021, 05:17:58 AM
Well the idea is that rocks are lighter than the equivalent amount of steel so these ships can go faster than ships of similar sizes due to being made from lighter materials. To try and balance this the ships have very low amounts of armour but a lot of hull points so its easier to disable their weapons and make them lose crew.

In space, everything weighs the same.  Mass varies.  It's a mod... for a game... that is an abstraction... of something that isn't real.  Just assume the mod author wanted to balance this against vanilla game options.

That's the mod author you're quoting lol

On mobility, I like the asteroid ships being agile but having low armor values, makes sense and fits, though I've personally adjusted some of the bigger ones to be a little less snappy (some of the big ones have frigate-level agility by default).
Title: Re: [0.95a] The Asteroid ship pack 1.3c
Post by: Null Ganymede on October 24, 2021, 05:03:39 AM
Visually the ships struck me as heavy, structurally unsound, but armored in the derelict contingent sense. Like, you pound some missiles into rock but there was no ship systems *behind* the rock so the ship's fine. Weapon loadouts supported that feeling - there's a real low tech "more mounts than anyone knows what to do with" vibe going on.

Cue my surprise when the cruisers/destroyers start pulling hit and runs on my fleet. Nevermind the SO cruisers tokyo drifting all over the place - those things are a menace!

Once I adjusted to the surprise it makes the early pirate fights visually and mechanically more interesting. Add in some Epattcud ships and Exodus Initiative weapons and early fights are, uh, fun.