Fractal Softworks Forum
Starsector => Suggestions => Topic started by: Dread Lord Murubarda on November 15, 2019, 11:23:25 AM
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so atm I wanna sell some nanoforges and synchotron cores to the LC, coz they seem like nice ppl. my only two options are the tariff and black market. I can either lose a lot of money or sell it on the black market and the items might end up in the wrong hands.
I am going to sell it on the black market and role-play that they are simply foregoing the tariff because they are very special items.
but I am thinking that we should have the option to sell these super rare items w/o any tariff, and even more than that, get a reputation increase. we are talking about super rare stuff from the domain era. losing money or sell it to criminals should not be the only two options.
or how about tariff scales with reputation? 30% at 0 rep and bellow and a symbolic 1% at 100 rep, for all the paperwork, you know.
I am also thinking about sort of procurement quests, but longer, no extra reward, your normal price depending on demand, but without tariff. for example, luddic church announces that they are looking for transplutonic ores, so now you can sell it w/o a tariff at any of their colonies for X months or X quantity.
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Not going to happen, Alex said the tariffs were intended to be that high. He dislikes trading and only put it in game because he thought that if he didn't people would complain, but since he dislikes trading he added those idiotic universal 30% tariffs to make sure we won't even bother trying to trade.
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Not going to happen, Alex said the tariffs were intended to be that high. He dislikes trading and only put it in game because he thought that if he didn't people would complain, but since he dislikes trading he added those idiotic universal 30% tariffs to make sure we won't even bother trying to trade.
Negro what? It would be stupidly boring to make ''grab a crapload of items from point A then sell it at point B'' profitable. There are trading games for that. Also you have missions and bar offers which are both very profitable. As for the OP's problem, if you could sell rare items anywhere without tariffs, there would be no point ever in selling in black market (except maybe when you intentionally want to make the game harder).
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but I am thinking that we should have the option to sell these super rare items w/o any tariff, and even more than that, get a reputation increase. we are talking about super rare stuff from the domain era. losing money or sell it to criminals should not be the only two options.
Umm... Why? Either you sell it legally, and get taxed, or you're selling it illegally, which is the definition of black market.
I can just see that going over well: "No Mr. Inland Revenues, you see I don't have to pay tax on it because it's rediculously valuable."
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don't you think the factions would be willing to give up the tariff and incentivize people to sell those rare items to them instead of selling them on the black market?
I understand that you like to obey the law, but real life does not work like that, governments do shady deals all the time and prosecute regular citizens if they do it. it's all about context.
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but real life does not work like that
WARNING! It appears you have made a comparison to the real world. Please bear in mind this is a video GAME forum, not a simulation. Have a pleasant day.
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what about immersion?
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what about immersion?
Good point, that's another argument in games I despise. Take a look at Red dead redemption 2, fun >>>> immersion. Yea let's make the player have to pick up each individual piece of something because that's more ''immersive'' and similar to real life. Again, that only makes sense in simulation games, so no need for these silly suggestions.
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what about immersion?
The best source of immersion has been, and always will be whatever is FUN.
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It would be stupidly boring to make ''grab a crapload of items from point A then sell it at point B'' profitable. There are trading games for that.
Congrats, it's not every day I see somebody dismantle their own argument.
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It would be stupidly boring to make ''grab a crapload of items from point A then sell it at point B'' profitable. There are trading games for that.
Congrats, it's not every day I see somebody dismantle their own argument.
That's why I don't like trading games? You could try adding two and two together instead of mocking me.
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There's actually a mechanic like that already, for cores. You can specifically talk to the station managers to get a bounty on them that's worth more.
You could simply make similar "quests" that allow you to sell off other massively valuable colony improving things.
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so people who despise immersion, for some reason, are telling others that they have no right to it because they know better how others should enjoy themselves, lol.
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so people who despise immersion, for some reason, are telling others that they have no right to it because they know better how others should enjoy themselves, lol.
I clearly said that I despise when gameplay suffers for immersion sake, not that I dislike it in general. Big difference.
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so people who despise immersion,
Immersion is a blanket buzzword that doesn't really mean anything. Good ideas have good reasons behind them. Simply calling it "immersive" doesn't score any points.
Tariffs are high for a deliberate gameplay reason. Making all your money on peaceful trade defeats the main attraction of the game, which is space ships getting in each other's face and punching each other. You can still make excellent trade money through smuggling and piracy, however those methods are deliberately meant to draw you into conflict. Conflict draws spaceships into punching each other, which is good. Peaceful trade avoids ships punching each other, which is bad. You pay a premium to avoid battle, and are not meant to profit that way.
In terms of gameplay mechanics, the tariff system does effectively accomplish what it sets out to do. The story lore could certainly be tuned up though. Calling it a "tariff" doesn't quite explain why the price tag is so high and why everyone has it and why it sucks so bad. The fluff should create a setting where it makes sense that the player struggles to do honest trade.
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Nanoforges and Synchotron Cores should be able to be directly traded for money and reputation to faction commanders, just like AI cores are.
When they make use of it themselves, perhaps transfering it to another planet or even be prompted to building the appropriate industry on that planet if none available, it makes perfect sense. It would feel like you are helping that faction and be rewarded for it.
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I never said remove tariff so players can trade more profitably, I was talking specifically about rare stuff in the context of these factions needing them badly.
you don't understand what immersion means, you don't need a simulation game, it's all about your own ability to immerse yourself in it's world. and I have immersed myself quite nicely in this one and I like to keep that immersion going.
saying that immersion is a buzzword is just sad. if you can't role-play, leave others to enjoy themselves however they want.
Nanoforges and Synchotron Cores should be able to be directly traded for money and reputation to faction commanders, just like AI cores are.
When they make use of it themselves, perhaps transfering it to another planet or even be prompted to building the appropriate industry on that planet if none available, it makes perfect sense. It would feel like you are helping that faction and be rewarded for it.
exactly, I wonder why other people are incapable of understanding this.
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A few posts in this thread have been a bit heated. Before this goes any further, a reminder to everyone: please keep discussion friendly.
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I never said remove tariff so players can trade more profitably, I was talking specifically about rare stuff in the context of these factions needing them badly.
you don't understand what immersion means, you don't need a simulation game, it's all about your own ability to immerse yourself in it's world. and I have immersed myself quite nicely in this one and I like to keep that immersion going.
saying that immersion is a buzzword is just sad. if you can't role-play, leave others to enjoy themselves however they want.
Nanoforges and Synchotron Cores should be able to be directly traded for money and reputation to faction commanders, just like AI cores are.
When they make use of it themselves, perhaps transfering it to another planet or even be prompted to building the appropriate industry on that planet if none available, it makes perfect sense. It would feel like you are helping that faction and be rewarded for it.
exactly, I wonder why other people are incapable of understanding this.
you are the one that is incapable of understanding...
immersion argument is void, coz everybody has their own immersion. I think that tariffs should be higher. What now? Are u about to tell me that your immersion is more important than mine?
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Re: OP. There are reputation bonuses for trading on the open market in large credit amounts so selling them to the LC on the open market will increase your standing with them. Maybe there should be a way to simple give them them in exchange for rep but i dont think it makes sense to get laid and also get rep.
If youre hung up on the tariff just think that there isnt a tariff but rather you get a premium on the black market because theyre so rare.
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Nanoforges and Synchotron Cores should be able to be directly traded for money and reputation to faction commanders, just like AI cores are.
When they make use of it themselves, perhaps transfering it to another planet or even be prompted to building the appropriate industry on that planet if none available, it makes perfect sense. It would feel like you are helping that faction and be rewarded for it.
exactly, I wonder why other people are incapable of understanding this.
JaronK also suggested something similar. The difference between me and you is the presentation. I didn't wrap the suggestion in flawed reasoning. That a similar idea can be a good idea does not make your reasoning any better, nor does it make the other two suggestions reasonable.
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If you can do this with AI cores, which are less valuable than a pristine nanoforge, I don't see any reason why you shouldn't be able to do the same thing with other items of similar value
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It would be stupidly boring to make ''grab a crapload of items from point A then sell it at point B'' profitable. There are trading games for that.
Congrats, it's not every day I see somebody dismantle their own argument.
kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk...
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so people who despise immersion,
Immersion is a blanket buzzword that doesn't really mean anything. Good ideas have good reasons behind them. Simply calling it "immersive" doesn't score any points.
Tariffs are high for a deliberate gameplay reason. Making all your money on peaceful trade defeats the main attraction of the game, which is space ships getting in each other's face and punching each other. You can still make excellent trade money through smuggling and piracy, however those methods are deliberately meant to draw you into conflict. Conflict draws spaceships into punching each other, which is good. Peaceful trade avoids ships punching each other, which is bad. You pay a premium to avoid battle, and are not meant to profit that way.
In terms of gameplay mechanics, the tariff system does effectively accomplish what it sets out to do. The story lore could certainly be tuned up though. Calling it a "tariff" doesn't quite explain why the price tag is so high and why everyone has it and why it sucks so bad. The fluff should create a setting where it makes sense that the player struggles to do honest trade.
After reveling in each other's conversations and points of view, I wondered if you would like to come live in Brazil to experience immersion and tariffs, and really understand what it means in practice. So laugh a lot in the previous comment I made.
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but I am thinking that we should have the option to sell these super rare items w/o any tariff, and even more than that, get a reputation increase.
Yeah, it would make a lot of sense if we could turn in things like nanoforges and synchrotron cores to authority figures the way we can with AI cores.
I am also thinking about sort of procurement quests, but longer, no extra reward, your normal price depending on demand, but without tariff. for example, luddic church announces that they are looking for transplutonic ores, so now you can sell it w/o a tariff at any of their colonies for X months or X quantity.
That could be a really cool event. It could make legal trading a lot more viable without incentivizing spreadsheets.
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Yeah, I too want that to happens! Also becase most of the time feels like we do not influence in a positive way the others factions colonies.
but I am thinking that we should have the option to sell these super rare items w/o any tariff, and even more than that, get a reputation increase.
Yeah, it would make a lot of sense if we could turn in things like nanoforges and synchrotron cores to authority figures the way we can with AI cores.
I am also thinking about sort of procurement quests, but longer, no extra reward, your normal price depending on demand, but without tariff. for example, luddic church announces that they are looking for transplutonic ores, so now you can sell it w/o a tariff at any of their colonies for X months or X quantity.
That could be a really cool event. It could make legal trading a lot more viable without incentivizing spreadsheets.
They could actually use it in the industry instead of just disappear in the Market like looks like what happens. The same for others commodities like surveys, trade goods, blueprints, they could end in the faction factory if we sold them, like se a hegemory start using some tempest after selling a blueprint of it to them. Or maybe a planet could get a imigration boost for the excess of availability of food and domestic goods after us selling a good amount in a Market. Instead when we do those "Concerned person on a table..." bar mission all the goods dong' go nowhere, it's don't influence the Market at all.
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Yeah, I too want that to happens! Also becase most of the time feels like we do not influence in a positive way the others factions colonies.
but I am thinking that we should have the option to sell these super rare items w/o any tariff, and even more than that, get a reputation increase.
Yeah, it would make a lot of sense if we could turn in things like nanoforges and synchrotron cores to authority figures the way we can with AI cores.
I am also thinking about sort of procurement quests, but longer, no extra reward, your normal price depending on demand, but without tariff. for example, luddic church announces that they are looking for transplutonic ores, so now you can sell it w/o a tariff at any of their colonies for X months or X quantity.
That could be a really cool event. It could make legal trading a lot more viable without incentivizing spreadsheets.
They could actually use it in the industry instead of just disappear in the Market like looks like what happens. The same for others commodities like surveys, trade goods, blueprints, they could end in the faction factory if we sold them, like se a hegemory start using some tempest after selling a blueprint of it to them. Or maybe a planet could get a imigration boost for the excess of availability of food and domestic goods after us selling a good amount in a Market. Instead when we do those "Concerned person on a table..." bar mission all the goods dong' go nowhere, it's don't influence the Market at all.
Aye, this.
After hearing it said in the playthrough I watched, black market weapons and ship blueprints end up in the hands of pirates, (E.G. fleets of pirate Paragons, you ded) I was very careful who I traded what to. Is this a lie??? A mod???
I tried to "build up" the Independents and Persean League (and maybe "take down" the Hegemony) with carefully-distributed sales of AI cores and nanoforges to planets with specialized industries, weapons and old-but-good ships to Independent stations with ragtag ships for sale, blueprints to Persean military bases that might actually be able to field them. Data on habitable planets was carefully spread to factions that I could tolerate settling a colony there before me. (Never Black Market or Pirates, or Planets with Luddic Path activity, lest they buy the data and set up bases there.) I was thinking of data and weapons sneaking through the markets, like it was the Star Wars universe or something. I put a lot of wasted thought into this.
...then I noticed everything I sold just sits there for sale (except AI cores that just "poof").
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As far as I'm aware. Selling nanoforges and synchrotron cores on the open/military market will have them immediately put to use in the corresponding industry if that colony has it (did it with the Kadur remnants a few times, you just need to make sure that their planet has the right industry before selling)
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I do find it odd that Pirates also have black markets on their worlds/stations. How does that even work, I wonder? If nothing else it would make sense for pirates, at the very least, to have lower tariffs than everyone else because their default market (should) work just like a black market elsewhere, sans the rep loss for big sales there.
A more reasonable take on tariffs elsewhere, however, would be to have them scale to your reputation. Meaning if they don't like you, or don't know you, then yeah, 30%+ is the going rate. But once your a commissioned ally who's proven themselves... well, perhaps a employee/friend discount is in order, yes?
Something like this:
-100 to -20 = 45%
-19 to 0 = 30%
0 to 75 = 25%
76 to 99 = 20%
100 = 15%
So you might be able to squeeze a buck out of trading, if you're lucky and are on excellent terms with both parties. However, as a caveat, I would also propose increasing the restrictions on what goods are even allowed in the trade markets to begin with - and link those to reputation the same way faction military stores are. Meaning people who don't like you at least a little bit aren't going to offer you weapons, marines or military grade ships, period. And what do you need that heavy equipment for, bub?
(For more on that, see Star Traders Frontiers and Trade Permits)
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Pirate colonies cannot have the very same pirates which discreetly sell items without tariffs? If you don't like pirates having tariffs, just remove the open market entirely.
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I do find it odd that Pirates also have black markets on their worlds/stations. How does that even work, I wonder?
You can test your fortune either by going out in high space in your trusty ship and facing the danger of the combat. Or. You could just sit at the station and ask some naive person if he is willing to give you 30% of the deal just because you are such a nice pirate. Black market is for those who cant make their terms. Like selling goods stolen from other pirates who, unfortunately, still alive and infuriated. Or willing to buy at your price so as to not end up being the vessels with freshly harvested organs.