Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => Mods => Topic started by: boggled on October 24, 2019, 04:48:35 PM

Title: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod
Post by: boggled on October 24, 2019, 04:48:35 PM
[0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod

This mod has been integrated into Terraforming and Station Construction.

This thread can be locked/deleted. Thank you.

https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=17094.0 (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=17094.0)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9)
Post by: Sundog on October 24, 2019, 07:27:57 PM
Just tested it out a bit, and at first glance this seems like a really solid implementation. Most of what I checked seems very nearly up to vanilla standards of quality. AI cores have fitting effects and clicking the notification icons even opens the colony management screen, which is a good demonstration of attention to detail imo. You might already be on top of some of these, but I did see a few things that could maybe be improved:
I'm looking forward to finding out how this turns out!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9)
Post by: Timid on October 24, 2019, 10:19:49 PM
I agree with Sundog's analysis. The mod deserves to be in the Mod Index (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=177.0) for its quality.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9)
Post by: Alavaria on October 25, 2019, 02:03:13 AM
Does this require a new game to work? On adding the mod, it is possible to see and build the Ismara's Sling, but not any of the other ones.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9)
Post by: Yunru on October 25, 2019, 03:09:03 AM
A quibble I had with one of the other ones that I see repeated here (or at least, not mentioned):
Why doesn't orbital mirrors improve low light?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9)
Post by: cjuicy on October 25, 2019, 11:49:43 AM
A quibble I had with one of the other ones that I see repeated here (or at least, not mentioned):
Why doesn't orbital mirrors improve low light?
Low light is a consequence of its distance to its parent star or the type of star the planet orbits. You can't really use a stellar mirror to amplify light that barely exists.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9)
Post by: Yunru on October 25, 2019, 11:52:17 AM
Low light is a consequence of its distance to its parent star or the type of star the planet orbits. You can't really use a stellar mirror to amplify light that barely exists.
Sure you can.
If, for example, I shone a spotlight at a beach ball such that only half the ball is in the beam, I can improve the amount of light reaching it by reflect light from elsewhere onto it, say by sticking a mirror in the beam pointed at the ball.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9)
Post by: Nick XR on October 25, 2019, 01:07:24 PM
A quibble I had with one of the other ones that I see repeated here (or at least, not mentioned):
Why doesn't orbital mirrors improve low light?
Low light is a consequence of its distance to its parent star or the type of star the planet orbits. You can't really use a stellar mirror to amplify light that barely exists.

It's more like gathering/redirectinv light that would miss the planet altogether.

I haven't checked the.mod out yet but I'm concerned with balance.  If this could only fix a few negative traits for lotsmof time and money while angering Ludd, maybe it could be ok.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9)
Post by: boggled on October 25, 2019, 04:11:00 PM
Low light is a consequence of its distance to its parent star or the type of star the planet orbits. You can't really use a stellar mirror to amplify light that barely exists.
Sure you can.
If, for example, I shone a spotlight at a beach ball such that only half the ball is in the beam, I can improve the amount of light reaching it by reflect light from elsewhere onto it, say by sticking a mirror in the beam pointed at the ball.

My understanding is that planets illuminated poorly enough that it presents a hazard to surface operations would require mirrors larger than the planet itself to improve the brightness to something similar to Earth. If someone with a physics background wants to weigh in about this I would happily defer to them.

Does this require a new game to work? On adding the mod, it is possible to see and build the Ismara's Sling, but not any of the other ones.

I added more information about this to the top post. You can safely add the mod to a save in progress, but I don't think you can remove the mod from your save once you start building structures.

Ismara's Sling is only buildable on cryovolcanic and water planets. Only desert-variant, tundra, jungle and frozen planets can be terraformed with the stellar reflector structures. They can be built on water, terran and terran-eccentric planets to improve conditions. They cannot be built anywhere else. Note that stellar mirrors cannot be built on planets with poor light or no light, which will automatically include all planets in a nebula or black hole system. Military Police Headquarters exists to remove decivilized subpopulations and can only be built on markets with that condition.

Just tested it out a bit, and at first glance this seems like a really solid implementation. Most of what I checked seems very nearly up to vanilla standards of quality. AI cores have fitting effects and clicking the notification icons even opens the colony management screen, which is a good demonstration of attention to detail imo. You might already be on top of some of these, but I did see a few things that could maybe be improved:
  • I didn't see any way to check the time remaining for terraforming. Maybe I missed something, but it seems to me like that info should be displayed in the tooltip of the structure
  • Seeing the planet change types on-screen is pretty jarring. Once your testing phase is over you might want to make sure that only happens when the player is far enough away not to see it
  • I saw the notification for the water ice requirement, but that might be another thing that could be helpful in the tooltip
  • It looks like terraforming won't revert after removing the structure. That might be working as intended and I understand that it's a matter of preference, but if you're open to it I'd like to try to convince you that planets should eventually revert to their former types without terraforming infrastructure in place.
I'm looking forward to finding out how this turns out!

I like these ideas and I'm going to implement the tooltips and player distance check. If you remove the reflectors, it will make the planet hot/cold again and make the farmland worse. I can make it revert the terraforming after a certain period of time if applicable.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9)
Post by: dk1332 on October 25, 2019, 04:39:12 PM
Cool, I kinda hate it when you find a good system with no good planets to colonized. Gonna try this on my current run where for some reason 90% of the planets I've seen so far are dead rocks with the average hazard of 150%....and I'm pretty sure I set it to mix.

A couple of questions:
- Does this conflict with other terraforming mods?
- Will this have the ability to terraform toxic planets and Azure planets?
- Will this support Tart's unknown skies mod?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9)
Post by: Sundog on October 25, 2019, 10:39:04 PM
If you remove the reflectors, it will make the planet hot/cold again and make the farmland worse.
Very cool! In that case, I would just advise you to somehow make that abundantly clear to the player. Anyone who expects the changes to be permanent even if they remove the structure will inevitably do so, resulting in disappointment and regret. Some people might even report it as a bug.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9)
Post by: Nick XR on October 26, 2019, 12:08:06 AM
Low light is a consequence of its distance to its parent star or the type of star the planet orbits. You can't really use a stellar mirror to amplify light that barely exists.
Sure you can.
If, for example, I shone a spotlight at a beach ball such that only half the ball is in the beam, I can improve the amount of light reaching it by reflect light from elsewhere onto it, say by sticking a mirror in the beam pointed at the ball.
My understanding is that planets illuminated poorly enough that it presents a hazard to surface operations would require mirrors larger than the planet itself to improve the brightness to something similar to Earth. If someone with a physics background wants to weigh in about this I would happily defer to them.

Most mirrors have good refractivity of the IR range of the spectrum (heat) in addition to visible light, so the amount of additional "heat" being directed to a planet to terraform it to something other than a ball of ice, should be enough to make it not dark.  And FWIW, planets like Mars get plenty of light and are too cold for humans (aside from other factors).  So if you can provide enough heat via mirrors to make it not cold, making it not dark has likely happened unless you're using mirror that don't reflect visible light but do reflect IR.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9)
Post by: Serenitis on October 26, 2019, 03:34:14 AM
Something that might need looking at:

I started with a Tundra world with -1 farming.
I built the mirrors, and it upgraded the world to Terran while giving it +1 farming.
I then removed the mirrors just to see what would happen.
The planet stayed Terran while re-gaining it's previous cold condition. But lost it's farmland condition entirely.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/DGBhE5y.png)
[close]
And yet it's now producing 15 food as a size 5 colony.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/Sd2JIuf.png)
[close]

Looks like the new conditions are being added whenever the mirror status changes, but the old ones are not being removed.
And the farmland is also being removed. (But still 'working'.)

Unrelated feedback/questions:
Possibly consider not changing the planet type, but improve the one that's already there. Having Terran planets potentially everywhere just doesn't "feel" right. (In this setting at least.)

Is everything in cat_barren completely untouched by these buildings?
Ie; Terraforming limited to already habitable planets.
(Fine with this btw.)

Possibly consider adding ability to frozen worlds to build Ismara's Sling.

Possibly consider adding information to the building tooltip when terraforming is stalled.

- Will this support Tart's unknown skies mod?
It would appear not. Possibly due to defing abilities by specific planet type, rather than by planet class.
Not a single US planet I tested with had the ability to build these buildings.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9)
Post by: Alavaria on October 27, 2019, 04:04:24 AM
I added more information about this to the top post. You can safely add the mod to a save in progress, but I don't think you can remove the mod from your save once you start building structures.
Thanks, yeah it wasn't a savegame problem then, just that I had exactly 0 terraformable planets in my list of colonies.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9.1)
Post by: boggled on October 27, 2019, 09:26:05 AM
Something that might need looking at:

I started with a Tundra world with -1 farming.
I built the mirrors, and it upgraded the world to Terran while giving it +1 farming.
I then removed the mirrors just to see what would happen.
The planet stayed Terran while re-gaining it's previous cold condition. But lost it's farmland condition entirely.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/DGBhE5y.png)
[close]
And yet it's now producing 15 food as a size 5 colony.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/Sd2JIuf.png)
[close]

Looks like the new conditions are being added whenever the mirror status changes, but the old ones are not being removed.
And the farmland is also being removed. (But still 'working'.)

Unrelated feedback/questions:
Possibly consider not changing the planet type, but improve the one that's already there. Having Terran planets potentially everywhere just doesn't "feel" right. (In this setting at least.)

Is everything in cat_barren completely untouched by these buildings?
Ie; Terraforming limited to already habitable planets.
(Fine with this btw.)

Possibly consider adding ability to frozen worlds to build Ismara's Sling.

Possibly consider adding information to the building tooltip when terraforming is stalled.

- Will this support Tart's unknown skies mod?
It would appear not. Possibly due to defing abilities by specific planet type, rather than by planet class.
Not a single US planet I tested with had the ability to build these buildings.

Thank you for bring this bug to my attention. I'm pretty sure it's fixed.

Ismara's Sling can now be built on frozen planets.

Tooltips added to show a rough amount of time left until terraforming is complete, or if it is stalled due to lack of water.

Low light is a consequence of its distance to its parent star or the type of star the planet orbits. You can't really use a stellar mirror to amplify light that barely exists.
Sure you can.
If, for example, I shone a spotlight at a beach ball such that only half the ball is in the beam, I can improve the amount of light reaching it by reflect light from elsewhere onto it, say by sticking a mirror in the beam pointed at the ball.
My understanding is that planets illuminated poorly enough that it presents a hazard to surface operations would require mirrors larger than the planet itself to improve the brightness to something similar to Earth. If someone with a physics background wants to weigh in about this I would happily defer to them.

Most mirrors have good refractivity of the IR range of the spectrum (heat) in addition to visible light, so the amount of additional "heat" being directed to a planet to terraform it to something other than a ball of ice, should be enough to make it not dark.  And FWIW, planets like Mars get plenty of light and are too cold for humans (aside from other factors).  So if you can provide enough heat via mirrors to make it not cold, making it not dark has likely happened unless you're using mirror that don't reflect visible light but do reflect IR.

Mirrors now remove the "poor light" condition. Still cannot be built on dark planets.

If you remove the reflectors, it will make the planet hot/cold again and make the farmland worse.
Very cool! In that case, I would just advise you to somehow make that abundantly clear to the player. Anyone who expects the changes to be permanent even if they remove the structure will inevitably do so, resulting in disappointment and regret. Some people might even report it as a bug.

Planets can now regress to their previous types before terraforming. If this is happening, there is an intel message regarding terraforming regression. Also, the stellar mirror/stellar shade conditions on the market say that if the reflectors are removed the conditions on the planet will deteriorate.

I agree with Sundog's analysis. The mod deserves to be in the Mod Index (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=177.0) for its quality.

Thank you! Once this gets a little bit more testing I will request inclusion in the mod index.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9.1)
Post by: Yunru on October 27, 2019, 12:52:10 PM
The only problem I have with terraforming regression is that there's only 12 building slots to work with, and those can fill quickly (4 industries, 1 waystation, 1 population, 1 spaceport, 1 orbital station, and 1 ground defence has you at 9 already, throw in a planetary shield and a patrol HQ/cryofacility/etc...).
So adding another means a sacrifice because of that hard limit.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9.1)
Post by: cjuicy on October 27, 2019, 01:04:44 PM
That makes for a good trade-off though. Terraforming is a powerful thing, so you should have to make a choice between that and other colony buildings.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9.1)
Post by: Yunru on October 27, 2019, 01:10:14 PM
That makes for a good trade-off though. Terraforming is a powerful thing, so you should have to make a choice between that and other colony buildings.
That's what industry slots are for.
Anything that takes up a large amount of space uses an industry slot. Things that don't (such as satellites which are in space), don't.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9.1)
Post by: e on October 27, 2019, 04:04:51 PM
-I'm going to leave this up for a few days so people can test it with the cheap and fast settings. After that, I'm going to set the costs and build times, etc. to "real" values. I'm thinking 10 million credits to build the reflectors and 5 million to build Ismara's Sling (regardless of colony size), and three cycles to terraform a planet or deterraform it. This will ensure that the player can't just spam terraforming on all their planets (at least until ultra late game) and makes sense lore-wise as the high capital costs are why other factions haven't constructed them. Please let me know what you think about these values.

I think the values and costs are fine considering money if trivial on the late game and this makes for a decent money sink.

One thing i hope you get around to, are two things that always mess me up when looking for planets:

high/low gravity, which i found to be too common in my games.
barren planets, which are the most abundant type of space rocks.

I hope you consider doing something regarding these, thanks!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9.1)
Post by: boggled on October 27, 2019, 04:12:41 PM
-I'm going to leave this up for a few days so people can test it with the cheap and fast settings. After that, I'm going to set the costs and build times, etc. to "real" values. I'm thinking 10 million credits to build the reflectors and 5 million to build Ismara's Sling (regardless of colony size), and three cycles to terraform a planet or deterraform it. This will ensure that the player can't just spam terraforming on all their planets (at least until ultra late game) and makes sense lore-wise as the high capital costs are why other factions haven't constructed them. Please let me know what you think about these values.

I think the values and costs are fine considering money if trivial on the late game and this makes for a decent money sink.

One thing i hope you get around to, are two things that always mess me up when looking for planets:

high/low gravity, which i found to be too common in my games.
barren planets, which are the most abundant type of space rocks.

I hope you consider doing something regarding these, thanks!

I'm trying to keep this mod as lore-friendly as possible and removing high/low gravity would definitely be out of place. Barren planets can be improved with this mod - you can remove poor light (but not darkness!) and hot or cold temperatures if the planet has a reasonably thick atmosphere. Anything further than that would not make sense lore-wise in my opinion.

Maybe I will add some way to terraform other planet types in the future, possibly via an item looted from a domain sporeship. The code for that will be very involved so I may not get around to it for a while.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9.1)
Post by: Nick XR on October 27, 2019, 06:19:37 PM
-I'm going to leave this up for a few days so people can test it with the cheap and fast settings. After that, I'm going to set the costs and build times, etc. to "real" values. I'm thinking 10 million credits to build the reflectors and 5 million to build Ismara's Sling (regardless of colony size), and three cycles to terraform a planet or deterraform it. This will ensure that the player can't just spam terraforming on all their planets (at least until ultra late game) and makes sense lore-wise as the high capital costs are why other factions haven't constructed them. Please let me know what you think about these values.

I think the values and costs are fine considering money if trivial on the late game and this makes for a decent money sink.

One thing i hope you get around to, are two things that always mess me up when looking for planets:

high/low gravity, which i found to be too common in my games.
barren planets, which are the most abundant type of space rocks.

I hope you consider doing something regarding these, thanks!

SS is a system of interlocking constraints and choices and one of those interesting choices is trying to figure out where you should found your empire and the related need to do a lot of exploring to make that choice wisely.  If the only constraint becomes "does this star system have enough planets", some of the more interesting and impactful choices the player has to make goes away.  Granted this is a single player game so how someone chooses to play doesn't affect me, so if you know what you're doing, by all means, go for it.  Where I do worry though is a new player picking up a mod like this (but not lore friendly) and damaging their experience by making where to colonize a non-choice.  As long as terraforming is limited and expensive enough to be constrained to the end-game, that's great and seems to pass the sniff test. 
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9.1)
Post by: Alavaria on October 27, 2019, 08:41:08 PM
While Cryovolcanic says the volcanos mostly erupt ammonia, do the Ice Giant type plants have water, like a Frozen one?

Feels a bit odd that you can't shade a place to solve its heat problem unless it has a jungle or something underneath it. Is there a limitation such that you can't have the removal of Hot take place over several cycles, while still leaving it as a Barren, but now less hot planet? Because once it is shaded, it can radiate away its heat on the other side and potentially cool down as far as you want, taking time though. Volcanic a bit different, probably (though the volcanos themselves usually have the tectonic condition).

Similarly for rocks that are Cold, though it makes sense that if there's a lack of light you would also be unable to heat it up.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9.1)
Post by: Serenitis on October 30, 2019, 01:01:40 PM
Encountered some weirdness when constructing mirrors with the new version:
Built the mirrors and they removed the cold condition.
Tooltip on the industry panel said "less than 2 cycles".
Checked periodically and saw roughly in sequence
"less than 17 cycles"
"less than 9 cycles"
"less than 2 cycles" (again)
"less than -6 cycles" (what)
"less than 19 cycles"
The planet never changed type/terraformed.

Not really sure what this is trying to tell me, but I'm fairly sure something isn't quite working right.
(Although the reduced hazard rating would technically be enough to consider it terraformed. To a degree.)

Barren planets can be improved with this mod - you can remove poor light (but not darkness!) and hot or cold temperatures if the planet has a reasonably thick atmosphere. Anything further than that would not make sense lore-wise in my opinion.
Tried several barren worlds and the tooltip said either "atmosphere not thick enough" or "no conditions can be improved".
What counts as reasonably thick atmosphere in this context?
Worth noting cat_barren are all set to no atmosphere in the procgen. So if your trigger is atmosphere >0, then barren worlds will never be able to build terraforming as the building will be looking for a condition that cannot exist.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9.1)
Post by: boggled on October 30, 2019, 04:16:55 PM
Encountered some weirdness when constructing mirrors with the new version:
Built the mirrors and they removed the cold condition.
Tooltip on the industry panel said "less than 2 cycles".
Checked periodically and saw roughly in sequence
"less than 17 cycles"
"less than 9 cycles"
"less than 2 cycles" (again)
"less than -6 cycles" (what)
"less than 19 cycles"
The planet never changed type/terraformed.

Not really sure what this is trying to tell me, but I'm fairly sure something isn't quite working right.
(Although the reduced hazard rating would technically be enough to consider it terraformed. To a degree.)

Barren planets can be improved with this mod - you can remove poor light (but not darkness!) and hot or cold temperatures if the planet has a reasonably thick atmosphere. Anything further than that would not make sense lore-wise in my opinion.
Tried several barren worlds and the tooltip said either "atmosphere not thick enough" or "no conditions can be improved".
What counts as reasonably thick atmosphere in this context?
Worth noting cat_barren are all set to no atmosphere in the procgen. So if your trigger is atmosphere >0, then barren worlds will never be able to build terraforming as the building will be looking for a condition that cannot exist.


The countdown doesn't work 100% correctly with this version because terraforming takes 3 days instead of the 3 cycles as intended for the final release. The reason it didn't actually terraform is because I implemented a check to make sure the player isn't too close when the planet changes appearance. I will make sure the countdown is working as intended for the 1.0 release.

I'll put some sort of indication in about terraforming not occurring while the player is near the planet so people are aware of that feature.

"Thick enough atmosphere" means the market does not have the "no atmosphere" or the "thin atmosphere" condition. I didn't realize that 100% of barren planets have no atmosphere. In that case, mirrors can only remove the "poor light" condition from barren planets, unless the player is using some other mod to generate barren planets that have an atmosphere.  This is working as intended because I don't want terraforming to work on planets that are completely unsuited to human life. If you find a barren planet with poor light and you cannot build the mirrors, please let me know as that is a bug.

Thank you for helping me with testing!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9.1)
Post by: Sundog on October 30, 2019, 07:02:39 PM
I'm thinking 10 million credits to build the reflectors and 5 million to build Ismara's Sling (regardless of colony size), and three cycles to terraform a planet or deterraform it. This will ensure that the player can't just spam terraforming on all their planets (at least until ultra late game) and makes sense lore-wise as the high capital costs are why other factions haven't constructed them. Please let me know what you think about these values.
In this case, I think upkeep cost would work better than initial cost as a balancing mechanism. At 3 cycles, 10m credits, and 1 structure slot, terraforming is something people won't bother considering until they're just looking for an excuse to spend money. I have nothing against money sinks, but 10m would seem out of place, and I think such high initial costs would make terraforming non-viable for practical purposes, especially with such a long delay before seeing any benefit. In my opinion, a better way to balance terraforming would be to set upkeep costs high enough that even if it were free, it still wouldn't be a good idea to terraform every planet you can. This would result in more interesting decisions and more colony diversity. Of course, determining what the proper upkeep cost should be for each structure to create that tipping-point dynamic wouldn't be particularly easy.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9.1)
Post by: Alavaria on October 30, 2019, 08:13:13 PM
Interestingly, when frozen planets get terraformed, they become vastly better. eg: a 100% hazard from 175% because it removes the usual "Extreme Cold" but also a "Poor Light" condition. This is better than an originally-water world (which was also at 175%) which had other negatives like storms etc. Clearly we should shade the water world so it freezes and then warm it back up so there's no storms.

Also, Organics shows up (standard quality) which is handy since food (water world) and organics deposits are a bit rarer than say volatiles and the two ores.

Do all water worlds spawn with organics in them?

In this case, I think upkeep cost would work better than initial cost as a balancing mechanism. At 3 cycles, 10m credits, and 1 structure slot, terraforming is something people won't bother considering until they're just looking for an excuse to spend money. I have nothing against money sinks, but 10m would seem out of place, and I think such high initial costs would make terraforming non-viable for practical purposes, especially with such a long delay before seeing any benefit.
Agree, compared to vanilla structures, the time on these at 1080 days is much longer so that a "full up-front" seems less of a match to the "it's a long process" feel of it.

Take 10,000,000. Say 1 mil is your upfront (like the battle station -> star fortress) then your upkeep would be 9mil over 36 months or 250,000 a month. Now, might have to adjust though, since you have 1. hazard, 2. upkeep bonus from faction-supplies and 3. cores.

Then again a lower hazard world would be easier to make stellar shades in the orbit of... maybe? And I can see how using in-faction supplies and cores would work. Also, borrowing from the Waystation, perhaps making the structure demand various goods, with a steep upkeep penalty for shortages would also work. Like a lot of metals, transplutonics, (building) crew, heavy machinery and ship hulls (building in space) etc

Perhaps not make the goods requirements change with size (would be odd) but high so that you need likely player production or very high accessibility (though if the AI factions suddenly can't send enough, it will hurt) which again makes sense.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9.1)
Post by: Serenitis on October 31, 2019, 12:10:59 PM
a check to make sure the player isn't too close when the planet changes appearance.
That would explain why it didn't change.
What is the cutoff for this? How far away do you have to be?

[edit]
Tried again, this time leaving the system entirely.
Planet never changed, and the completion note on the mirror tooltip kept counting up.

Quote
In that case, mirrors can only remove the "poor light" condition from barren planets, unless the player is using some other mod to generate barren planets that have an atmosphere. 
That's fine.
Nothing wrong with limits.

Quote
"Thick enough atmosphere" means the market does not have the "no atmosphere" or the "thin atmosphere" condition.
Is the terraforming ability being 'allowed' purely down to the atmosphere, or are there other factors?

[edit]
Could you set out a definitive list of requirements/limitations for these buildings please?
I'm having some trouble understanding why I can't build mirrors in places which would logically benefit from them and otherwise meet the atmosphere/darkness requirements, but am unable to build anything because I'm being told there would be no benefit.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9.1)
Post by: Bastion.Systems on November 01, 2019, 03:39:31 AM
This is a great mod for role playing as reborn Eridani-Utopia.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9.1)
Post by: boggled on November 01, 2019, 02:43:53 PM
a check to make sure the player isn't too close when the planet changes appearance.
That would explain why it didn't change.
What is the cutoff for this? How far away do you have to be?

[edit]
Tried again, this time leaving the system entirely.
Planet never changed, and the completion note on the mirror tooltip kept counting up.

Quote
In that case, mirrors can only remove the "poor light" condition from barren planets, unless the player is using some other mod to generate barren planets that have an atmosphere. 
That's fine.
Nothing wrong with limits.

Quote
"Thick enough atmosphere" means the market does not have the "no atmosphere" or the "thin atmosphere" condition.
Is the terraforming ability being 'allowed' purely down to the atmosphere, or are there other factors?

[edit]
Could you set out a definitive list of requirements/limitations for these buildings please?
I'm having some trouble understanding why I can't build mirrors in places which would logically benefit from them and otherwise meet the atmosphere/darkness requirements, but am unable to build anything because I'm being told there would be no benefit.

Distance is checked by whether the player is within intel notification range of the system. If you travel outside that distance and the planet fails to terraform, please let me know so I can look into it. Specific code is:
Code
private boolean playerTooClose(StarSystemAPI system)
    {
        return Global.getSector().getPlayerFleet().isInOrNearSystem(system);
    }

Here is the code for whether the stellar mirror array can be built. It's pretty convoluted. The atmosphere consideration only comes in for planet types that are poorly suited to both human habitation and terraforming. It's entirely possible there are bugs in my code or that the requirements should be changed for balance/lore reasons. Please let me know what you think.
Code
@Override
    public boolean isAvailableToBuild()
    {
        //Check to ensure non-player factions cannot build this
        if(!this.market.isPlayerOwned())
        {
            return false;
        }

        //Can't be built by station markets
        if(this.market.getPrimaryEntity().hasTag("station")) { return false; }

        //Can't be built on planets with no light. All planets in nebulas and orbiting black holes have dark condition.
        if(this.market.hasCondition("dark")) { return false; }

        //Can't be built on planets that already have an orbital mirror array (only blocks Eochu Bres and Eventide in vanilla sector)
        if(numReflectorsInOrbit() >= 3) { return false; }

        PlanetAPI planet = this.market.getPlanetEntity();

        //These planet types cannot be warmed up if they lack a thick enough atmosphere
        if((planet.getTypeId().equals("barren") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren_castiron") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren2") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren3") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren_venuslike") || planet.getTypeId().equals("toxic") || planet.getTypeId().equals("toxic_cold") || planet.getTypeId().equals("rocky_metallic") || planet.getTypeId().equals("rocky_unstable") || planet.getTypeId().equals("rocky_ice") || planet.getTypeId().equals("irradiated") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren_bombarded")) && (this.market.hasCondition("no_atmosphere") || this.market.hasCondition("thin_atmosphere") || !(this.market.hasCondition("cold") || this.market.hasCondition("very_cold"))) && !this.market.hasCondition("poor_light"))
        {
            return false;
        }

        //Verify the planet has poor light if not one of the terraformable types
        if(!this.market.hasCondition("poor_light") && !(planet.getTypeId().equals("frozen") || planet.getTypeId().equals("frozen1") || planet.getTypeId().equals("frozen2") || planet.getTypeId().equals("frozen3") || planet.getTypeId().equals("terran") || planet.getTypeId().equals("desert") || planet.getTypeId().equals("desert1") || planet.getTypeId().equals("arid") || planet.getTypeId().equals("water") || planet.getTypeId().equals("tundra") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren-desert") || planet.getTypeId().equals("terran-eccentric") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren_castiron") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren2") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren3") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren_venuslike") || planet.getTypeId().equals("toxic") || planet.getTypeId().equals("toxic_cold") || planet.getTypeId().equals("rocky_metallic") || planet.getTypeId().equals("rocky_unstable") || planet.getTypeId().equals("rocky_ice") || planet.getTypeId().equals("irradiated") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren_bombarded")))
        {
            return false;
        }

        //Verify compatible market conditions for certain planet types - mirror and shade should never both be buildable
        if(planet.getTypeId().equals("terran") && !(this.market.hasCondition("cold") || this.market.hasCondition("very_cold") || this.market.hasCondition("poor_light"))) {return false;}
        if(planet.getTypeId().equals("desert") && !(this.market.hasCondition("cold") || this.market.hasCondition("very_cold") || this.market.hasCondition("poor_light"))) {return false;}
        if(planet.getTypeId().equals("desert1") && !(this.market.hasCondition("cold") || this.market.hasCondition("very_cold") || this.market.hasCondition("poor_light"))) {return false;}
        if(planet.getTypeId().equals("arid") && !(this.market.hasCondition("cold") || this.market.hasCondition("very_cold") || this.market.hasCondition("poor_light"))) {return false;}
        if(planet.getTypeId().equals("water") && !(this.market.hasCondition("cold") || this.market.hasCondition("very_cold") || this.market.hasCondition("poor_light"))) {return false;}
        if(planet.getTypeId().equals("barren-desert") && !(this.market.hasCondition("cold") || this.market.hasCondition("very_cold") || this.market.hasCondition("poor_light"))) {return false;}
        if(planet.getTypeId().equals("terran-eccentric") && !(this.market.hasCondition("cold") || this.market.hasCondition("very_cold") || this.market.hasCondition("poor_light"))) {return false;}

        //Buildable on other types of worlds even if they are not actually cold
        return true;
    }

And here is the code for the unavailability reason tool tip. Mirrors the above to some extent.
Code
@Override
    public String getUnavailableReason()
    {
        //Can't be built on planets that already have an orbital mirror array (only blocks Eochu Bres and Eventide in vanilla sector)
        if(numReflectorsInOrbit() >= 3) { return "This world already has an array of stellar reflectors. Building more would not improve conditions any further."; }

        //Can't be built on planets with no light. All planets in nebulas and orbiting black holes have dark condition.
        if(this.market.hasCondition("dark")) { return "This world receives almost no light. Stellar mirrors would have no effect on conditions here."; }

        PlanetAPI planet = this.market.getPlanetEntity();

        //These planet types cannot be warmed up if they lack a thick enough atmosphere
        if((planet.getTypeId().equals("barren") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren_castiron") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren2") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren3") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren_venuslike") || planet.getTypeId().equals("toxic") || planet.getTypeId().equals("toxic_cold") || planet.getTypeId().equals("rocky_metallic") || planet.getTypeId().equals("rocky_unstable") || planet.getTypeId().equals("rocky_ice") || planet.getTypeId().equals("irradiated") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren_bombarded")) && (this.market.hasCondition("no_atmosphere") || this.market.hasCondition("thin_atmosphere")) && !this.market.hasCondition("poor_light"))
        {
            return "This type of world is poorly suited to terraforming and lacks a sufficiently thick atmosphere to benefit from stellar mirrors.";
        }

        //These planet types cannot be warmed up if they lack a thick enough atmosphere
        if((planet.getTypeId().equals("barren") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren_castiron") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren2") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren3") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren_venuslike") || planet.getTypeId().equals("toxic") || planet.getTypeId().equals("toxic_cold") || planet.getTypeId().equals("rocky_metallic") || planet.getTypeId().equals("rocky_unstable") || planet.getTypeId().equals("rocky_ice") || planet.getTypeId().equals("irradiated") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren_bombarded")) && (!(this.market.hasCondition("cold") || this.market.hasCondition("very_cold"))) && !this.market.hasCondition("poor_light"))
        {
            return "This world does not have any environmental conditions that could be improved by stellar mirrors.";
        }

        //Verify the planet has poor light if not one of the terraformable types
        if(!this.market.hasCondition("poor_light") && !(planet.getTypeId().equals("frozen") || planet.getTypeId().equals("frozen1") || planet.getTypeId().equals("frozen2") || planet.getTypeId().equals("frozen3") || planet.getTypeId().equals("terran") || planet.getTypeId().equals("desert") || planet.getTypeId().equals("desert1") || planet.getTypeId().equals("arid") || planet.getTypeId().equals("water") || planet.getTypeId().equals("tundra") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren-desert") || planet.getTypeId().equals("terran-eccentric") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren_castiron") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren2") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren3") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren_venuslike") || planet.getTypeId().equals("toxic") || planet.getTypeId().equals("toxic_cold") || planet.getTypeId().equals("rocky_metallic") || planet.getTypeId().equals("rocky_unstable") || planet.getTypeId().equals("rocky_ice") || planet.getTypeId().equals("irradiated") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren_bombarded")))
        {
            return "This world does not have any environmental conditions that could be improved by stellar mirrors.";
        }

        //Verify compatible market conditions for certain planet types - mirror and shade should never both be buildable
        if(planet.getTypeId().equals("terran") && !(this.market.hasCondition("cold") || this.market.hasCondition("very_cold") || this.market.hasCondition("poor_light"))) {return "This world does not have any environmental conditions that could be improved by stellar mirrors.";}
        if(planet.getTypeId().equals("desert") && !(this.market.hasCondition("cold") || this.market.hasCondition("very_cold") || this.market.hasCondition("poor_light"))) {return "This world does not have any environmental conditions that could be improved by stellar mirrors.";}
        if(planet.getTypeId().equals("desert1") && !(this.market.hasCondition("cold") || this.market.hasCondition("very_cold") || this.market.hasCondition("poor_light"))) {return "This world does not have any environmental conditions that could be improved by stellar mirrors.";}
        if(planet.getTypeId().equals("arid") && !(this.market.hasCondition("cold") || this.market.hasCondition("very_cold") || this.market.hasCondition("poor_light"))) {return "This world does not have any environmental conditions that could be improved by stellar mirrors.";}
        if(planet.getTypeId().equals("water") && !(this.market.hasCondition("cold") || this.market.hasCondition("very_cold") || this.market.hasCondition("poor_light"))) {return "This world does not have any environmental conditions that could be improved by stellar mirrors.";}
        if(planet.getTypeId().equals("barren-desert") && !(this.market.hasCondition("cold") || this.market.hasCondition("very_cold") || this.market.hasCondition("poor_light"))) {return "This world does not have any environmental conditions that could be improved by stellar mirrors.";}
        if(planet.getTypeId().equals("terran-eccentric") && !(this.market.hasCondition("cold") || this.market.hasCondition("very_cold") || this.market.hasCondition("poor_light"))) {return "This world does not have any environmental conditions that could be improved by stellar mirrors.";}

        return "ERROR. TELL BOGGLED ABOUT THIS ON THE FORUMS.";
    }
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9.1)
Post by: Serenitis on November 02, 2019, 08:51:52 AM
Firstly, thank you for this!

From the above, I can see the following restrictions.
(Please correct me if I'm wrong)

Cannot terraform anything which:

Is this correct?

One of the confusing things I've encountered is this:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/GAIyAAw.png)
[close]
By the rules this world should qualify to build a mirror.
It has a "normal" atmosphere.
It isn't dark.
I think the problem here is that it's a Cryo world. And those are not defined in the code.
(lava and lava_minor are also not defined.)

I'm not sure if the player distance thing is working properly.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/q9Tro7j.png)
[close]
This is the third attempt I've made at terraforming a planet with mirrors, and it never does anything but count the number of cycles remaining up. It started at < 3 cycles.
I made sure to leave the system entirely, and still nothing.

I wonder if there's a way to call planet categories rather than individual id types?
This would make the code a lot simpler, and support procgen mods (like Unknown Skies).
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9.1)
Post by: Yunru on November 02, 2019, 09:29:51 AM
I'd say just get rid of the planet-type checks.
What's the worst that'll happen, you can put mirrors around a space station?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9.1)
Post by: boggled on November 02, 2019, 09:51:29 AM
Firstly, thank you for this!

From the above, I can see the following restrictions.
(Please correct me if I'm wrong)

Cannot terraform anything which:
  • Is not a planet
  • Has no atmosphere
  • Has thin atmosphere
  • Is in total darkness
  • Is not a vanilla entity

Is this correct?

One of the confusing things I've encountered is this:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/GAIyAAw.png)
[close]
By the rules this world should qualify to build a mirror.
It has a "normal" atmosphere.
It isn't dark.
I think the problem here is that it's a Cryo world. And those are not defined in the code.
(lava and lava_minor are also not defined.)


Planets which are typically considered good targets for terraforming (frozen, tundra, jungle, desert, etc.) are not subject to the atmosphere restriction. Only barren, toxic, etc. are. As far as vanilla planets go, only planets that already have 3+ stellar reflectors in orbit are blocked from building reflectors. Eochu Bres and Eventide are the only vanilla planets that meet that criteria, but faction mods might add more, and they would be blocked too.

Cryovolcanic and volcanic worlds cannot build mirrors because my understanding is that their climate is largely dictated by volcanism rather than amount of sunlight.

I'm not super knowledgeable about the real world science behind stellar reflectors and what effects they can have on different types of planets. If Nick XR or someone with more science knowledge wants to explain which planet types can be affected and how, I would defer to them.


I'm not sure if the player distance thing is working properly.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/q9Tro7j.png)
[close]
This is the third attempt I've made at terraforming a planet with mirrors, and it never does anything but count the number of cycles remaining up. It started at < 3 cycles.
I made sure to leave the system entirely, and still nothing.


I found a bug regarding frozen worlds in particular where the trigger to terraform them wasn't being set properly. It should be fixed with the latest 1.0 release.


I wonder if there's a way to call planet categories rather than individual id types?
This would make the code a lot simpler, and support procgen mods (like Unknown Skies).


I'll look into changing the logic to use categories. I didn't see that being used in the other terraforming mod I copied my code from, but I will see if I can get it working for mine.

I'd say just get rid of the planet-type checks.
What's the worst that'll happen, you can put mirrors around a space station?

I don't want the player to spend a lot of time and money building reflectors around a planet that can't benefit (or a station). This would be frustrating and confusing.

Interestingly, when frozen planets get terraformed, they become vastly better. eg: a 100% hazard from 175% because it removes the usual "Extreme Cold" but also a "Poor Light" condition. This is better than an originally-water world (which was also at 175%) which had other negatives like storms etc. Clearly we should shade the water world so it freezes and then warm it back up so there's no storms.

Also, Organics shows up (standard quality) which is handy since food (water world) and organics deposits are a bit rarer than say volatiles and the two ores.

Do all water worlds spawn with organics in them?

In this case, I think upkeep cost would work better than initial cost as a balancing mechanism. At 3 cycles, 10m credits, and 1 structure slot, terraforming is something people won't bother considering until they're just looking for an excuse to spend money. I have nothing against money sinks, but 10m would seem out of place, and I think such high initial costs would make terraforming non-viable for practical purposes, especially with such a long delay before seeing any benefit.
Agree, compared to vanilla structures, the time on these at 1080 days is much longer so that a "full up-front" seems less of a match to the "it's a long process" feel of it.

Take 10,000,000. Say 1 mil is your upfront (like the battle station -> star fortress) then your upkeep would be 9mil over 36 months or 250,000 a month. Now, might have to adjust though, since you have 1. hazard, 2. upkeep bonus from faction-supplies and 3. cores.

Then again a lower hazard world would be easier to make stellar shades in the orbit of... maybe? And I can see how using in-faction supplies and cores would work. Also, borrowing from the Waystation, perhaps making the structure demand various goods, with a steep upkeep penalty for shortages would also work. Like a lot of metals, transplutonics, (building) crew, heavy machinery and ship hulls (building in space) etc

Perhaps not make the goods requirements change with size (would be odd) but high so that you need likely player production or very high accessibility (though if the AI factions suddenly can't send enough, it will hurt) which again makes sense.

When you terraform a frozen world to a water world, organics are always added. My understanding is that organics are things like plants, animals, etc. which will always be abundant on a water world. I think procgen always spawns organics on water worlds; I could be wrong though.

If a planet spawns as a water world but has extreme weather, my understanding is that the extreme weather is being caused by something other than the amount of sunlight, such as the rotation speed of the planet, geological features and/or orbital characteristics. This appears to be the case on Chalcedon. Should reflectors remove extreme weather on Chalcedon?

Two things about having demand for the reflectors: (1) Vanilla industries with demand consume the demanded goods to produce a final product. Reflectors don't do that. The planetary shield has no demand, despite possibly needing heavy machinery or crew for maintenance. (2) My understanding of the economy in this game is that adding demand to structures will actually generate money for the player because the demand will be increasing the size of the global export market, which increases the player revenue if they have a share of that export market. Is this correct? If so, I would probably have to increase the upkeep of the reflectors to compensate for the increase in export revenue.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9.1)
Post by: Yunru on November 02, 2019, 09:55:52 AM
I don't want the player to spend a lot of time and money building reflectors around a planet that can't benefit (or a station). This would be frustrating and confusing.
But are there any that the conditions checks don't catch?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9.1)
Post by: Serenitis on November 02, 2019, 10:02:41 AM
Thank you for the explanation.

I'd say just get rid of the planet-type checks.

In theory (and I might be wrong about this) you could keep the player owned check, the station check, the darkness check, and the atmosphere checks.
And completely ignore planet types, and you'd still be restricted from terraforming most of the planets in the game because:

Darkness restrictions automatically eliminate ALL nebula/black hole planets, plus many "outer system" worlds.
Disallowing no atmosphere automatically eliminates ALL barren/rocky/unstable/metallic worlds.
Disallowing thin atmosphere automatically eliminates ALL barren desert worlds, and a significant number of cryo/volcanic/frozen/radiated worlds.
(And it becomes "mod neutral" since it's not looking up specific ids.)

I don't want the player to spend a lot of time and money building reflectors around a planet that can't benefit (or a station). This would be frustrating and confusing.
Even if you don't allow actual terraforming, removing temperature conditions is definitely a benefit.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v0.9.1)
Post by: Alavaria on November 02, 2019, 10:16:28 AM
(2) My understanding of the economy in this game is that adding demand to structures will actually generate money for the player because the demand will be increasing the size of the global export market, which increases the player revenue if they have a share of that export market. Is this correct?
It does not, your markets' entries in the "consumer" side are just "----" instead of say 3000. Only other factions' contribute.

This is presumably since the trading in-faction is represented by upkeep reduction.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.0.0)
Post by: RandomnessInc on November 15, 2019, 01:33:06 PM
The EUTECK isn't working on some planets for me, it says I need to be in orbit, even though I am in orbit and I own it.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.0.0)
Post by: boggled on November 15, 2019, 02:54:55 PM
The EUTECK isn't working on some planets for me, it says I need to be in orbit, even though I am in orbit and I own it.

Please send me a screenshot (or preferably a video) of the circumstances, including the tooltip on the EUTECK ability while you're in orbit. That will allow me to investigate the cause of this issue. Thank you!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.0.0)
Post by: RandomnessInc on November 15, 2019, 03:14:11 PM
https://ibb.co/fx28BRt
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.0.0)
Post by: boggled on November 15, 2019, 03:50:58 PM
https://ibb.co/fx28BRt

Are you sure you're in orbit around that planet? Try flying directly on top of the planet and then using the s key to stop.

In some cases, if a tiny planet/moon is orbiting very close to a much larger planet it seems you cannot actually get into orbit around it. I know this occurs in the case of Killa and Hanan Pacha in the Yma system. Is that a procedurally generated planet or one of the core worlds? Can you upload your save so I can look into it further? Thank you!

Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.0.0)
Post by: RandomnessInc on November 15, 2019, 03:56:21 PM
It was a randomly generated system, and i was "orbiting" around it, it said "holding station at xxx"

This was also happening with another planet in the same system that was far away from the other two.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.0.0)
Post by: boggled on November 16, 2019, 07:13:45 AM
It was a randomly generated system, and i was "orbiting" around it, it said "holding station at xxx"

This was also happening with another planet in the same system that was far away from the other two.

Has the EUTECK ever worked on any planet in your save? When you go into orbit around a planet, the floating text says "Orbiting [X Planet]" not "Holding station". The holding station text only happens if you're in a ring system or other terrain. Unless you have a mod that changes the floating text, it would appear you aren't actually in orbit around that planet if "holding station" appears. You might actually be holding station in the magnetic field around it. If you upload your save, I can take a look to sort it out.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.0.0)
Post by: Serenitis on November 16, 2019, 10:33:02 AM
https://ibb.co/fx28BRt
That looks like a Magnetic world from the Unknown Skies mod. If so, that might explain why it doesn't work.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.0.1)
Post by: Unremarkable on November 19, 2019, 08:08:38 PM
I've run into two issues.

First, I'm unable to EUTECK this little planet with Mother Night: https://i.imgur.com/rzhXLpc.png
When I hold position over the planet it always orbits Mother Night instead of the planet.

I was able to colonize the other barren world in that screenshot and EUTECK it instead.

Second, my terraforming progress seems to reset every time I reload. I have two saves that are 8 months apart and they both say "Approximately 11 months remaining until terraforming is completed". It does seem to make progress as long as I stay in the game, it just doesn't seem to save.

Edit: Saw a previous comment about this. Seems like `isInOrNearSystem` radius is 1ly. May be the case that mechanics were changed since the comment was made, but spending three days outside of this radius did not allow the colony to terraform.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.0.2)
Post by: boggled on November 20, 2019, 04:14:44 PM
I've run into two issues.

First, I'm unable to EUTECK this little planet with Mother Night: https://i.imgur.com/rzhXLpc.png
When I hold position over the planet it always orbits Mother Night instead of the planet.

I was able to colonize the other barren world in that screenshot and EUTECK it instead.

Second, my terraforming progress seems to reset every time I reload. I have two saves that are 8 months apart and they both say "Approximately 11 months remaining until terraforming is completed". It does seem to make progress as long as I stay in the game, it just doesn't seem to save.

Edit: Saw a previous comment about this. Seems like `isInOrNearSystem` radius is 1ly. May be the case that mechanics were changed since the comment was made, but spending three days outside of this radius did not allow the colony to terraform.

The issue with terraforming progress being reset was unrelated to the distance from the planet. It's fixed in the new 2.0.2 release.

That planet you're trying to E.U.T.E.C.K. is likely too small for your fleet to get into orbit. You got into orbit around the larger planet nearby instead. This happens with Hanan Pacha and Killa in the Yma system as well. I think this is a bug with the vanilla game as I doubt the developers intended for certain planets to be impossible for the player to orbit. I'm going to be changing the orbital requirement to a distance check which should work around this problem.

Thank you for letting me know about this! The progress reset bug was pretty serious and I'm embarrassed I didn't catch it sooner!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.0.2)
Post by: Unremarkable on November 20, 2019, 07:27:40 PM
I've run into two issues.

First, I'm unable to EUTECK this little planet with Mother Night: https://i.imgur.com/rzhXLpc.png
When I hold position over the planet it always orbits Mother Night instead of the planet.

I was able to colonize the other barren world in that screenshot and EUTECK it instead.

Second, my terraforming progress seems to reset every time I reload. I have two saves that are 8 months apart and they both say "Approximately 11 months remaining until terraforming is completed". It does seem to make progress as long as I stay in the game, it just doesn't seem to save.

Edit: Saw a previous comment about this. Seems like `isInOrNearSystem` radius is 1ly. May be the case that mechanics were changed since the comment was made, but spending three days outside of this radius did not allow the colony to terraform.

The issue with terraforming progress being reset was unrelated to the distance from the planet. It's fixed in the new 2.0.2 release.

That planet you're trying to E.U.T.E.C.K. is likely too small for your fleet to get into orbit. You got into orbit around the larger planet nearby instead. This happens with Hanan Pacha and Killa in the Yma system as well. I think this is a bug with the vanilla game as I doubt the developers intended for certain planets to be impossible for the player to orbit. I'm going to be changing the orbital requirement to a distance check which should work around this problem.

Thank you for letting me know about this! The progress reset bug was pretty serious and I'm embarrassed I didn't catch it sooner!

Thanks for the prompt reply!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.0.2)
Post by: Hoakin Blackforge on November 22, 2019, 08:04:08 AM
So, i terraformed 2 of my most productive planets, then suddenly they lost their ultrarich metal qualities.

What the ***. Thanks for making me lose hours of progress.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.0.2)
Post by: Unremarkable on November 22, 2019, 11:03:26 AM
I've run into two issues.

First, I'm unable to EUTECK this little planet with Mother Night: https://i.imgur.com/rzhXLpc.png
When I hold position over the planet it always orbits Mother Night instead of the planet.

I was able to colonize the other barren world in that screenshot and EUTECK it instead.

Second, my terraforming progress seems to reset every time I reload. I have two saves that are 8 months apart and they both say "Approximately 11 months remaining until terraforming is completed". It does seem to make progress as long as I stay in the game, it just doesn't seem to save.

Edit: Saw a previous comment about this. Seems like `isInOrNearSystem` radius is 1ly. May be the case that mechanics were changed since the comment was made, but spending three days outside of this radius did not allow the colony to terraform.

The issue with terraforming progress being reset was unrelated to the distance from the planet. It's fixed in the new 2.0.2 release.

That planet you're trying to E.U.T.E.C.K. is likely too small for your fleet to get into orbit. You got into orbit around the larger planet nearby instead. This happens with Hanan Pacha and Killa in the Yma system as well. I think this is a bug with the vanilla game as I doubt the developers intended for certain planets to be impossible for the player to orbit. I'm going to be changing the orbital requirement to a distance check which should work around this problem.

Thank you for letting me know about this! The progress reset bug was pretty serious and I'm embarrassed I didn't catch it sooner!

It seems like your changes fixed terraforming started after the patch but if it was started pre-2.0.2 then progress is still lost on load. I have two planets, one of which built a Stellar Mirror Array long before I applied the patch, and another that I built Stellar Shade Array on immediately after applying the patch. The planet that I built the array on post-patch now has a mild climate, but the planet I build the array on pre-patch still has a cold climate. Is there anything that I can do about this?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.0.2)
Post by: Unremarkable on November 22, 2019, 12:25:38 PM
It seems like your changes fixed terraforming started after the patch but if it was started pre-2.0.2 then progress is still lost on load. I have two planets, one of which built a Stellar Mirror Array long before I applied the patch, and another that I built Stellar Shade Array on immediately after applying the patch. The planet that I built the array on post-patch now has a mild climate, but the planet I build the array on pre-patch still has a cold climate. Is there anything that I can do about this?

Actually, I may have been mistaken. I think the tool-tip description for the Stellar Mirror has changed. Currently it reads: "<name> has an array of stellar mirrors in orbit. Without the mirrors, environmental conditions would begin to deteriorate." I think previously it included a sentence about it taking up to two cycles for changes to occur. Despite this, the planet still has Extreme Cold.

https://i.imgur.com/LzPKO5l.png

Tool-tips disappear when I take a screenshot, sorry!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.0.2)
Post by: boggled on November 22, 2019, 04:23:00 PM
It seems like your changes fixed terraforming started after the patch but if it was started pre-2.0.2 then progress is still lost on load. I have two planets, one of which built a Stellar Mirror Array long before I applied the patch, and another that I built Stellar Shade Array on immediately after applying the patch. The planet that I built the array on post-patch now has a mild climate, but the planet I build the array on pre-patch still has a cold climate. Is there anything that I can do about this?

Actually, I may have been mistaken. I think the tool-tip description for the Stellar Mirror has changed. Currently it reads: "<name> has an array of stellar mirrors in orbit. Without the mirrors, environmental conditions would begin to deteriorate." I think previously it included a sentence about it taking up to two cycles for changes to occur. Despite this, the planet still has Extreme Cold.

https://i.imgur.com/LzPKO5l.png

Tool-tips disappear when I take a screenshot, sorry!

When you build a reflector, most planets have an immediate effect of removing the hot/cold/poor light condition, and then certain planet types can be terraformed two cycles later. Cryovolanic and frozen planets have no immediate changes, but two cycles later are terraformed to a water planet. I will update the tooltips to make it clear that there should be no immediate changes to frozen or cryovolanic planets when a mirror array is built. If there isn't a countdown to terraforming on frozen or cryovolcanic planets on the stellar mirror array industry, please let me know as that would be a bug. That planet named "Second" in your screenshot should turn into a water world in two cycles, and the industry tooltip should be counting down month by month. Thank you for your continued help with testing!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.1.1)
Post by: witchking321 on November 27, 2019, 06:20:30 PM
Thank you for your mod but i kinda have an issue right now.

Previously i terraformed 4 barren/toxic planets with euteck kits which worked flawless except the already known ghost planet name bug and i also constructed a mining and siphon station with your other mod with no problem. Started the construction of astropoli on my 2 biggest planets.

Version checker showed me another update and i deleted the old mod and downloaded the new version like the last few days. I started the game and everything was working fine but i had one tundra and 2 cryovolcanic planets under terraforming process with mirrors. A third planet which was one my terraformed planets had now the option to build astropoli too which i did and the patch notes mentioned a bug fix.

Anyway the terraforming on my cryo and tundra world were completed at the same time and the cyro became a water world while tundra a terran planet but my intel screen is now under siege by constant messages that those two planets are finished with terraforming. I think i get like 20 messages per second alternating between those two planets. The tundra planet was the first of the two astropoli worlds and the station is still there after the terraforming.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.0.2)
Post by: Alavaria on November 28, 2019, 01:50:35 AM
Cryovolanic and frozen planets have no immediate changes, but two cycles later are terraformed to a water planet. I will update the tooltips to make it clear that there should be no immediate changes to frozen or cryovolanic planets when a mirror array is built.
That is interesting since I have a frozen planet that is 11 months away from finishing the terraforming, but already "lost" 75% worth of hazard, presumably Poor Light (25%) and Extreme Cold (50%) as it's only remaining conditions are its ore/volatiles.

Your Stellar Mirror/Shade building tooltip says that things like Toxic or Irradiated are fixed by terraforming, though those show up on Toxic and (I think) Barren Irradiated worlds, which aren't terraformable by the mirrors/shades?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.1.1)
Post by: boggled on November 28, 2019, 08:47:26 AM
Cryovolanic and frozen planets have no immediate changes, but two cycles later are terraformed to a water planet. I will update the tooltips to make it clear that there should be no immediate changes to frozen or cryovolanic planets when a mirror array is built.
That is interesting since I have a frozen planet that is 11 months away from finishing the terraforming, but already "lost" 75% worth of hazard, presumably Poor Light (25%) and Extreme Cold (50%) as it's only remaining conditions are its ore/volatiles.

Your Stellar Mirror/Shade building tooltip says that things like Toxic or Irradiated are fixed by terraforming, though those show up on Toxic and (I think) Barren Irradiated worlds, which aren't terraformable by the mirrors/shades?

The effects on frozen/cryovolcanic planets have been made immediate to reduce player confusion. I forgot to add a note to the changelog. Sorry about this!

Is it impossible for a jungle/frozen/desert/cryovolcanic/tundra world to be generated with toxic atmosphere or irradiated conditions? If so, let me know and I will remove those things from the list. You cannot terraform toxic or irradiated planet types with stellar reflectors. You need a E.U.T.E.C.K. for that.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.1.2)
Post by: witchking321 on November 28, 2019, 03:11:04 PM
Thanks for the hotfix.

The intel bug is fixed but it seems my save is ruined anyway. Somehow tons of ghost planets were generated from those terraformed planets.
I didn't noticed it immediately because i was away from my colony waging war against the church but i did felt the performance was worse but i blamed my astropli spam first.
When i tried to look at my colonies from the intel panel there was massive lag and when i finally arrived at my system and hovered my mouse over the jump point i saw an endless list of those two ghost planets and when i tried to enter my system the game speed turned into an utter crawl.

Not sure if the previous or current version is at fault at it. I played the previous one for 12 months until my planets terraformed and had the intel bug happen and i played another few months with the current version because the church proved them self stubborn but a worse performance was there from the very first second.

Not sure if the previous one created all those ghost planets and the current version is safe.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.1.2)
Post by: boggled on November 28, 2019, 05:26:58 PM
Thanks for the hotfix.

The intel bug is fixed but it seems my save is ruined anyway. Somehow tons of ghost planets were generated from those terraformed planets.
I didn't noticed it immediately because i was away from my colony waging war against the church but i did felt the performance was worse but i blamed my astropli spam first.
When i tried to look at my colonies from the intel panel there was massive lag and when i finally arrived at my system and hovered my mouse over the jump point i saw an endless list of those two ghost planets and when i tried to enter my system the game speed turned into an utter crawl.

Not sure if the previous or current version is at fault at it. I played the previous one for 12 months until my planets terraformed and had the intel bug happen and i played another few months with the current version because the church proved them self stubborn but a worse performance was there from the very first second.

Not sure if the previous one created all those ghost planets and the current version is safe.

The hotfix prevents the bug from happening in the future but doesn't remove any ghost planets created using the bugged version.

If you want to try to fix your old save, I wrote some code for you to remove all the ghost planets. Using the console commands mod, paste the below code in while you're in the system with all the ghost planets. Please let me know whether this works. Make sure you back up your save before using this. Sorry about the bug!

Code
RunCode import java.util.*; Iterator allEntities = Global.getSector().getPlayerFleet().getStarSystem().getAllEntities().iterator(); List <SectorEntityToken> targetPlanets = new ArrayList<SectorEntityToken>(); while(allEntities.hasNext()){SectorEntityToken entity = (SectorEntityToken)allEntities.next();if (entity instanceof PlanetAPI && entity.getRadius() == 0){targetPlanets.add(entity);}}for(int i = 0; i < targetPlanets.size(); i++){Global.getSector().getPlayerFleet().getStarSystem().removeEntity(((SectorEntityToken)targetPlanets.get(i)));}
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.1.2)
Post by: witchking321 on November 29, 2019, 08:33:51 AM
Thanks for the hotfix.

The intel bug is fixed but it seems my save is ruined anyway. Somehow tons of ghost planets were generated from those terraformed planets.
I didn't noticed it immediately because i was away from my colony waging war against the church but i did felt the performance was worse but i blamed my astropli spam first.
When i tried to look at my colonies from the intel panel there was massive lag and when i finally arrived at my system and hovered my mouse over the jump point i saw an endless list of those two ghost planets and when i tried to enter my system the game speed turned into an utter crawl.

Not sure if the previous or current version is at fault at it. I played the previous one for 12 months until my planets terraformed and had the intel bug happen and i played another few months with the current version because the church proved them self stubborn but a worse performance was there from the very first second.

Not sure if the previous one created all those ghost planets and the current version is safe.

The hotfix prevents the bug from happening in the future but doesn't remove any ghost planets created using the bugged version.

If you want to try to fix your old save, I wrote some code for you to remove all the ghost planets. Using the console commands mod, paste the below code in while you're in the system with all the ghost planets. Please let me know whether this works. Make sure you back up your save before using this. Sorry about the bug!

Code
RunCode import java.util.*; Iterator allEntities = Global.getSector().getPlayerFleet().getStarSystem().getAllEntities().iterator(); List <SectorEntityToken> targetPlanets = new ArrayList<SectorEntityToken>(); while(allEntities.hasNext()){SectorEntityToken entity = (SectorEntityToken)allEntities.next();if (entity instanceof PlanetAPI && entity.getRadius() == 0){targetPlanets.add(entity);}}for(int i = 0; i < targetPlanets.size(); i++){Global.getSector().getPlayerFleet().getStarSystem().removeEntity(((SectorEntityToken)targetPlanets.get(i)));}

This is a bit awkward but i already deleted my old save because i wanted to add/swap faction mods and download unknown skies since your 2.1 patch made them fully compatible.  ;D

Thanks for your help anyway.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.1.1)
Post by: Serenitis on November 30, 2019, 05:16:07 AM
Is it impossible for a jungle/frozen/desert/cryovolcanic/tundra world to be generated with toxic atmosphere or irradiated conditions?
Both toxic and irradiated cannot be procgened on any world which has the habitable condition.
(Both set as requiresNotAny = "habitable")

PlanetToxicRadiated
JungleNoNo
FrozenYesNo
DesertNoNo
CryoYesNo
TundraNoNo

Irradiated can be overidden by generation if the world is in a system with a neutron star as the primary, in which case all planets will be irradiated.
(Oddly, this does not apply if the neutron star is not the first star in the system. Normal rules apply if this is the case.)
As far as I'm aware, the only habitable planet that can generate around a neutron star is hab_2. Aka, Desert.

Jungle & Tundra can never have toxic or irradiated.
Desert can never have toxic. And can only be irradiated if it's orbiting a neutron star.
Frozen & Cryo can both have toxic. And can only be irradiated if they're orbiting a neutron star.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.1.2)
Post by: boggled on November 30, 2019, 06:35:25 AM
Is it impossible for a jungle/frozen/desert/cryovolcanic/tundra world to be generated with toxic atmosphere or irradiated conditions?
Both toxic and irradiated cannot be procgened on any world which has the habitable condition.
(Both set as requiresNotAny = "habitable")

PlanetToxicRadiated
JungleNoNo
FrozenYesNo
DesertNoNo
CryoYesNo
TundraNoNo

Irradiated can be overidden by generation if the world is in a system with a neutron star as the primary, in which case all planets will be irradiated.
(Oddly, this does not apply if the neutron star is not the first star in the system. Normal rules apply if this is the case.)
As far as I'm aware, the only habitable planet that can generate around a neutron star is hab_2. Aka, Desert.

Jungle & Tundra can never have toxic or irradiated.
Desert can never have toxic. And can only be irradiated if it's orbiting a neutron star.
Frozen & Cryo can both have toxic. And can only be irradiated if they're orbiting a neutron star.

Based on the above I think I could probably remove irradiated and toxic atmosphere from the list of conditions fixed by stellar reflector terraforming (but still have E.U.T.E.C.K. fix it). I'll put this change in the next patch. Thank you!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.1.2)
Post by: NephilimNexus on November 30, 2019, 12:59:18 PM
E.U.T.E.C.K. is nice, but I think we could find a better name for it.  Something that reflects that it is basically a Creation Kit for a Garden of Eden. 

Oh it's right on the tip of my tongue...
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.1.2)
Post by: Serenitis on December 01, 2019, 01:29:13 AM
Genesis Device :P

Speaking of which.... Maybe consider making them a bit harder to find.
They're set to guaranteed drops for both survey ships and motherships, and it's really easy to get a stack of these things if you lean into exploration even casually.

Perhaps making the mothership a decent, but not guaranteed chance of finding one (>50%). And the survey ship a small chance (<20%).

Spoiler
Some name candidates once we're not referencing random works anymore:
Planetary Conversion Kit
Terraforge
Nanoformer
Terraforming Engine
Biosphere Formatting Tool
Environmental Assembler
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.1.2)
Post by: boggled on December 01, 2019, 06:37:43 AM
Genesis Device :P

Speaking of which.... Maybe consider making them a bit harder to find.
They're set to guaranteed drops for both survey ships and motherships, and it's really easy to get a stack of these things if you lean into exploration even casually.

Perhaps making the mothership a decent, but not guaranteed chance of finding one (>50%). And the survey ship a small chance (<20%).

Spoiler
Some name candidates once we're not referencing random works anymore:
Planetary Conversion Kit
Terraforge
Nanoformer
Terraforming Engine
Biosphere Formatting Tool
Environmental Assembler
[close]

Since there are only two motherships per sector, I think the mothership should 100% give the player at least one E.U.T.E.C.K. As for survey ships, are they periodically generated over time, or are there a fixed number of them as well? If there's only a limited number, I want to ensure the player gets at least a few E.U.T.E.C.K.s so 20% drop rate seems too low. The Domain probes do not drop a E.U.T.E.C.K.

As for the name, I chose that because the G.E.C.K. artwork worked fairly well for the inventory icon and because many people are already familiar with the functionality of the G.E.C.K. (which is essentially the same as the E.U.T.E.C.K). I would happily change it to something better, but I'm not an artist so I can't create custom artwork for my mods. If someone can find or create good artwork for the E.U.T.E.C.K. item for the inventory then I would gladly replace it.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.1.2)
Post by: NephilimNexus on December 02, 2019, 06:53:33 AM
I was joking.  Anyway, a question that I ask of all terraforming mods:  Does this create usable farmland when a world becomes more habitable?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.1.2)
Post by: boggled on December 02, 2019, 07:20:00 AM
I was joking.  Anyway, a question that I ask of all terraforming mods:  Does this create usable farmland when a world becomes more habitable?

Yes (if it changes planet type to terran).
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.1.2)
Post by: NephilimNexus on December 02, 2019, 11:41:07 AM
Awesome!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.1.2)
Post by: Serenitis on December 02, 2019, 12:23:40 PM
I might be wrong about this, so take it with a pinch of salt etc...

DerelictThemeGenerator.java controls how many motherships are in the sector, and in turn that controls how many other domain derelicts theres are.
And it seems to be heavily dependant on the size of the sector generated, and it's age.
You're guaranteed to get at least 1 mothership in any sector. And if I'm reading it right (if) it looks like there's a hard cap of 3 if the expression returns higher than that.

Each mothership can trigger the generation of 1-3 survey ships.
And each survey ship can trigger the generation of 2-5 probes. (1-3 probes can also be added 'randomly' to a system.)

Minimum possible generation of derelicts: 1M + 1S + 2P
2 terraforming drops is probably acceptable given the huge deal they are.

Maximum possible generation of derelicts: 3M + 9S + 45P
11 terraforming drops seems somewhat excessive, and possibly trivialises the item and the process.
Why would you bother with expensive shades etc. when you can just hit up a domain wreck for one of these?

Based on this, would it be out of line to suggest that only motherships are guaranteed drops, and survey ships get a tiny chance (if any) to drop the terraforming doodad?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.1.2)
Post by: Valikdu on December 02, 2019, 12:54:41 PM
Maybe instead of reducing the number of GECKs, extra steps and expenditures could be added for turning any planet to a terran? Like, currently the GECK just makes any planet terran in one step, but maybe it could just be used for turning a hostile planet (volcanic/toxic/irradiated) into a barren one, and then there would be these extra steps for making it better for life, using new structure and abilities in addition to the existing mirrors/shades/slings.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.1.2)
Post by: boggled on December 03, 2019, 02:35:38 PM
I might be wrong about this, so take it with a pinch of salt etc...

DerelictThemeGenerator.java controls how many motherships are in the sector, and in turn that controls how many other domain derelicts theres are.
And it seems to be heavily dependant on the size of the sector generated, and it's age.
You're guaranteed to get at least 1 mothership in any sector. And if I'm reading it right (if) it looks like there's a hard cap of 3 if the expression returns higher than that.

Each mothership can trigger the generation of 1-3 survey ships.
And each survey ship can trigger the generation of 2-5 probes. (1-3 probes can also be added 'randomly' to a system.)

Minimum possible generation of derelicts: 1M + 1S + 2P
2 terraforming drops is probably acceptable given the huge deal they are.

Maximum possible generation of derelicts: 3M + 9S + 45P
11 terraforming drops seems somewhat excessive, and possibly trivialises the item and the process.
Why would you bother with expensive shades etc. when you can just hit up a domain wreck for one of these?

Based on this, would it be out of line to suggest that only motherships are guaranteed drops, and survey ships get a tiny chance (if any) to drop the terraforming doodad?


I think the ideal amount of drops for a normal sized sector is probably 4-5. I'll issue an update soon that gives survey ships a reduced drop rate. You really know a lot about the inner workings of Starsector. Thanks for your help!

Maybe instead of reducing the number of GECKs, extra steps and expenditures could be added for turning any planet to a terran? Like, currently the GECK just makes any planet terran in one step, but maybe it could just be used for turning a hostile planet (volcanic/toxic/irradiated) into a barren one, and then there would be these extra steps for making it better for life, using new structure and abilities in addition to the existing mirrors/shades/slings.

I like this idea personally but I don't want to introduce too much complexity as that leads to bugs and player confusion. I'm also limited by availability of artwork that fits with the Starsector style as I'm a terrible artist myself.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.1.2)
Post by: Serenitis on December 06, 2019, 03:55:29 AM
You really know a lot about the inner workings of Starsector. Thanks for your help!
Although I would like to be able to claim such extensive knowledge to puff up my own importance, I am just vaguely competant/persistant at digging through data.
Credit should go to Alex for creating code that isn't literal spaghetti.

Quote
I like this idea personally but I don't want to introduce too much complexity as that leads to bugs and player confusion. I'm also limited by availability of artwork that fits with the Starsector style as I'm a terrible artist myself.
Less complexity is good.
But I do wonder if the multiple stages thing might be useful.
Rather than have the player interact with it constantly throughout the process via industries, have it run through the stages of terraforming the planet on its own. Each 'stage' improves 1 aspect of the planet and notifies the player, so there's constant feedback.

[e]
My artistic abilities are.... limited to say the least. But I threw this together using some of the unused artwork in the game files:
(https://i.imgur.com/F1ir8K7.png)
If it doesn't appeal to you, hopefully it might inspire something else that does.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.1.2)
Post by: boggled on December 07, 2019, 05:01:24 AM
You really know a lot about the inner workings of Starsector. Thanks for your help!
Although I would like to be able to claim such extensive knowledge to puff up my own importance, I am just vaguely competant/persistant at digging through data.
Credit should go to Alex for creating code that isn't literal spaghetti.

Quote
I like this idea personally but I don't want to introduce too much complexity as that leads to bugs and player confusion. I'm also limited by availability of artwork that fits with the Starsector style as I'm a terrible artist myself.
Less complexity is good.
But I do wonder if the multiple stages thing might be useful.
Rather than have the player interact with it constantly throughout the process via industries, have it run through the stages of terraforming the planet on its own. Each 'stage' improves 1 aspect of the planet and notifies the player, so there's constant feedback.

[e]
My artistic abilities are.... limited to say the least. But I threw this together using some of the unused artwork in the game files:
(https://i.imgur.com/F1ir8K7.png)
If it doesn't appeal to you, hopefully it might inspire something else that does.

I actually think that is great! Since you created the art, I will let you choose the new name of the device if you want. Please let me know if you have a preference!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.1.2)
Post by: Danku-Chan on December 07, 2019, 08:35:30 PM
Have you considered adding a structure that can remove pollution? You might be able to add two structures for this actually.
I'm thinking perhaps "Ecological Safe-Zones" where nature is left to clean up after us, but this requires vast amounts of land, cutting your colony's exports a bit.
And the other, more expensive brute force solution, just massive recycling facilities. These could either take up an industry slot, or just be absurdly expensive.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.1.2)
Post by: boggled on December 08, 2019, 04:39:33 AM
Have you considered adding a structure that can remove pollution? You might be able to add two structures for this actually.
I'm thinking perhaps "Ecological Safe-Zones" where nature is left to clean up after us, but this requires vast amounts of land, cutting your colony's exports a bit.
And the other, more expensive brute force solution, just massive recycling facilities. These could either take up an industry slot, or just be absurdly expensive.

The (soon to be renamed) E.U.T.E.C.K. does clean up pollution as part of the terraforming process. Based on the description of on the pollution condition, it implies that there is widespread contamination of the environment with toxic industrial chemicals and radioactive particles. I don't think that could be cleaned up by creating nature preserves or using real world methods of cleaning up pollution like recycling.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.1.2)
Post by: SparraNova on December 08, 2019, 04:43:38 AM
Have you considered adding a structure that can remove pollution? You might be able to add two structures for this actually.
I'm thinking perhaps "Ecological Safe-Zones" where nature is left to clean up after us, but this requires vast amounts of land, cutting your colony's exports a bit.
And the other, more expensive brute force solution, just massive recycling facilities. These could either take up an industry slot, or just be absurdly expensive.
Eh, a massive-scale recyclying plant sounds more like an upgrade (sidegrade?) to tech-mining that salvages a steady amount of basic resources in addition to the random stuff from tech mining while migitating pollution somewhat. Actually brute-forcing pollution seems like it would be more along the lines of some sort of massive-scale chemical draining and dumping network for dumping all the toxic waste into one big pit (presumably with a huge operating price what with running enormous planetary pipelines for carting around corrosive radioactive toxic *** that glows in the dark), perhaps it would count as an industry until it's done pumping all the waste into one area, at which point it would be 'upgraded' into a passive structure (all the pipelines being shut down so it's just the mega waste dump)?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.1.2)
Post by: Serenitis on December 09, 2019, 11:01:34 AM
I actually think that is great! Since you created the art, I will let you choose the new name of the device if you want. Please let me know if you have a preference!

That's awfully kind. But whatever you choose to name it will be fine.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.2.0)
Post by: boggled on December 13, 2019, 07:21:45 AM
Could you please check if this crash related to your mod?
Got it on ICE Giant (unsurveyed) visit; first time getting this, and right after updating to 2.2 of this mod.

Spoiler
4086104 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.A.new.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.A.new.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.String.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.P.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.oOOo.addIconFor(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.oOOo.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.impl.StandardTooltipV2$9.public.float(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.impl.StandardTooltipV2$9.beforeShown(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.C.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[close]

Does the crash occur 100% of the time when you approach any ice giant, or just one in particular? Does the crash occur if you start a new game without my mod active and fly to an ice giant? Do you have other mods installed?

It appears the crash log doesn't reference anything related to my mod. If the crash only happens when my mod is active, please let me know and I can look into this further.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.2.0)
Post by: Kulverstukass on December 13, 2019, 10:20:28 AM
Does the crash occur 100% of the time when you approach any ice giant, or just one in particular? Does the crash occur if you start a new game without my mod active and fly to an ice giant? Do you have other mods installed?

It appears the crash log doesn't reference anything related to my mod. If the crash only happens when my mod is active, please let me know and I can look into this further.
Haven't happened ever after, same planet or different, never had such crash before (& before added your mods).
I'm gonna assume that game borked for a moment, as it happened when my fleet dropped from hyperspace and bounty fleet orbiting said ice giant went towards me, all before that fading animation from switching "playfields" finished.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.2.0)
Post by: Codyrex123 on December 16, 2019, 08:12:58 AM
I installed this in the middle of a save so thats almost certainly it, but I'd thought I might as well show this off as maybe a thing that could be prepared for?
Its only for that specific device (The one to heat up the planet), the solar shade says the planet is too cold like it should.

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/s3GmANH.png)
[close]

Otherwise, enjoying your mod greatly! I'm personally on the fence about limiting the amount of items the player can get a hold of in the sector, I don't really like it, even if it fits with the lore, so I'd like a way to get them once you've fully explored a given sector. I'd suggest through a special event in the dockside bar or something for a very high price or something.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.2.0)
Post by: boggled on December 16, 2019, 02:49:15 PM
I installed this in the middle of a save so thats almost certainly it, but I'd thought I might as well show this off as maybe a thing that could be prepared for?
Its only for that specific device (The one to heat up the planet), the solar shade says the planet is too cold like it should.

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/s3GmANH.png)
[close]

Otherwise, enjoying your mod greatly! I'm personally on the fence about limiting the amount of items the player can get a hold of in the sector, I don't really like it, even if it fits with the lore, so I'd like a way to get them once you've fully explored a given sector. I'd suggest through a special event in the dockside bar or something for a very high price or something.

I've taken a look but I can't reproduce the bug you're having with that planet. Are you using any mods that make changes to planets or add planet types besides Unknown Skies? In the next version of the mod, I will add additional text to that error message to help with troubleshooting this sort of problem, but I don't want to annoy everyone with an update just for that.

As far as additional ways to obtain the Miller-Urey device go, I'm likely going to add missions/events to the mod that will allow the player to obtain it. I'm waiting on the next version of the game to implement this because the new raiding features will expand what can be done with missions. If you've already destroyed all the motherships in your current save, it would be reasonable to use the console to add a MUD to your inventory for each mothership destroyed. Type "additem euteck" to get one.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.2.0)
Post by: Codyrex123 on December 17, 2019, 02:31:56 AM
I've found another cryo-volcanic planet that has the same issue

If its super likely to be anything other than a faction mod possibly, it would be Secrets Of The Frontier which hasn't been released on the forums yet so if it is clashing then I wouldn't be surprised. Otherwise as far as I know other mods  I have installed shouldn't change/effect or create new types of planets. Whats really odd is the fact that the previous planet I was allowed to make a sling on it, but this new one I'm not allowed to that, despite it being as far as I can tell, the exact same planet type.

And something to note is that its a little odd that we're able to make Solar shades and stellar mirrors without a spaceport first, Convenient, but 'logically' its weird. I know in effect without a space port they wouldn't likely get the imports needed to work, but its just something to note.

does the terraforming device work on any planet or just ones recognized by the mod? I'm just curious to know if this might be somehow remediable in its current state until the next update.

Edit:
Found another odd one! Planet isn't hot, only negative condition it has (after I had cleared the decivilized sub population) was extreme tectonic plates
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/ajjRpvb.png)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.2.0)
Post by: boggled on December 17, 2019, 05:43:08 PM
I've found another cryo-volcanic planet that has the same issue

If its super likely to be anything other than a faction mod possibly, it would be Secrets Of The Frontier which hasn't been released on the forums yet so if it is clashing then I wouldn't be surprised. Otherwise as far as I know other mods  I have installed shouldn't change/effect or create new types of planets. Whats really odd is the fact that the previous planet I was allowed to make a sling on it, but this new one I'm not allowed to that, despite it being as far as I can tell, the exact same planet type.

And something to note is that its a little odd that we're able to make Solar shades and stellar mirrors without a spaceport first, Convenient, but 'logically' its weird. I know in effect without a space port they wouldn't likely get the imports needed to work, but its just something to note.

does the terraforming device work on any planet or just ones recognized by the mod? I'm just curious to know if this might be somehow remediable in its current state until the next update.

Edit:
Found another odd one! Planet isn't hot, only negative condition it has (after I had cleared the decivilized sub population) was extreme tectonic plates
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/ajjRpvb.png)
[close]

Would it be possible to PM me a link to the Secrets of the Frontier mod? I would be able to tell right away from looking at the code whether that mod is causing the issue. I would also be happy to add support for it if necessary so when it gets released there is no conflict.

I think it probably makes sense that the planet would need a spaceport before stellar reflectors could be built. I will implement this in the next version of the mod.

The MUD will not work on unrecognized planets (or gas giants).

That jungle world you linked will actually be terraformed into a terran planet by the stellar shades if you were to build them. They are always buildable on jungle worlds (except under rare conditions) so they can be terraformed.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.2.0)
Post by: SaiWave on December 18, 2019, 03:59:33 PM
There's a planet from the Shadowyards Reconstruction Authority Mod
Its called Euripides and it's Semi-Arid planet.



Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.2.0)
Post by: boggled on December 18, 2019, 04:57:34 PM
There's a planet from the Shadowyards Reconstruction Authority Mod
Its called Euripides and it's Semi-Arid planet.

I've added support for this planet type. It should be considered part of the desert/arid group of planet types. Please let me know if you encounter any issues with it going forward. Thank you!

I've found another cryo-volcanic planet that has the same issue

If its super likely to be anything other than a faction mod possibly, it would be Secrets Of The Frontier which hasn't been released on the forums yet so if it is clashing then I wouldn't be surprised. Otherwise as far as I know other mods  I have installed shouldn't change/effect or create new types of planets. Whats really odd is the fact that the previous planet I was allowed to make a sling on it, but this new one I'm not allowed to that, despite it being as far as I can tell, the exact same planet type.

And something to note is that its a little odd that we're able to make Solar shades and stellar mirrors without a spaceport first, Convenient, but 'logically' its weird. I know in effect without a space port they wouldn't likely get the imports needed to work, but its just something to note.

does the terraforming device work on any planet or just ones recognized by the mod? I'm just curious to know if this might be somehow remediable in its current state until the next update.

Edit:
Found another odd one! Planet isn't hot, only negative condition it has (after I had cleared the decivilized sub population) was extreme tectonic plates
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/ajjRpvb.png)
[close]

I've included some additional debugging text in the latest update of the mod. Please let me know what type of planet it indicates Cultus is. Thanks for your patience!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.3.0)
Post by: Codyrex123 on December 19, 2019, 12:36:14 AM
Ah ha! Fringe Defense Syndicate!
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/R94RN3K.png)
[close]

https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=12243.0 (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=12243.0)

Finally we can maybe put this entire issue to rest, thank you for 'essentially' patching your mod to help figure out this issue!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.3.1)
Post by: boggled on December 19, 2019, 04:13:30 PM
Ah ha! Fringe Defense Syndicate!
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/R94RN3K.png)
[close]

https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=12243.0 (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=12243.0)

Finally we can maybe put this entire issue to rest, thank you for 'essentially' patching your mod to help figure out this issue!

FDS should now be supported with full backwards compatibility. Let me know if you have any problems after updating. Thank you!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.3.2)
Post by: TheRiverNorth on December 21, 2019, 09:14:29 AM
Would it be possible to link this to your Player Station Construction mod? Perhaps make it possible for someone to construct an Ismara's Sling-type structure on asteroid stations so that they could fling chunks of ice toward desert planets?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.3.2)
Post by: boggled on December 21, 2019, 03:10:23 PM
Would it be possible to link this to your Player Station Construction mod? Perhaps make it possible for someone to construct an Ismara's Sling-type structure on asteroid stations so that they could fling chunks of ice toward desert planets?

I'm against implementing this because:

1) Having two industries that do the same thing will cause player confusion and add complexity.
2) There are no ice fields or ice rings as far as I'm aware, so it would be confusing as to where the ice asteroids are coming from.
3) Virtually all systems have asteroid rings or fields, so this would trivialize terraforming desert planets as it could be done in any system and there would be little reason to use or care about the Ismara's Sling.
4) The Ismara's Sling is based on lore from the planet Ismara in the Penelope system so it fits better with the vanilla lore than redirecting asteroids, which is not present in the vanilla game.

However, if more people come out in favor of implementing this, I will reconsider my position.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.3.2)
Post by: Codyrex123 on December 22, 2019, 07:41:50 AM
Not trying to be pushy, as I do kinda agree with the whole thing (Though I would like a way to terraform planets without a easy source of water, maybe converted tankers transporting massive amounts of fluid water or something, as a expensive, extremely slow way, like putting out a trade request or something) about trivializing the process. However, water exists as ice in a lot of comets and asteroids so its not really 'out there' as an idea. Whether or not flinging large amounts of clumped water-ice at a planet is a good idea notwithstanding, it would be logical enough. So heres what I'd say, if its an idea that is implemented, instead of making it part of a colony, instead make it its own campaign map token, 'Intersystem Mass Driver' or something, and make it expensive as all hecc, taking in account that the structure on its own would need to power itself, protect itself from asteroids and propel itself so the force of its payload being launched doesn't make it a one-use tool. Maybe it can have a small market for antimatter fuel, worn machinery or something, but unlike a colony, it has a negative growth strike making it unlikely to ever get above 3-4 size without intensive effort by the player, Theoretically it should probably have some ore capabilities too though for mining? Just some ideas to toss in if it was to be added.

Isn't the description of a ring system involve talking about some of them being ice at least? Maybe, but just thought I'd say what I thought on the whole matter.

In any case, I dropped by to say that so far I haven't had any issues, but I haven't had much time to try it out and to see how Ismara's sling works on the FDS planets that I've been having the issues with!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.3.2)
Post by: intrinsic_parity on December 22, 2019, 02:05:22 PM
Is there any way to know what the effect of building the terraforming buildings would be on a world without doing it?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.3.2)
Post by: boggled on December 22, 2019, 03:51:16 PM
Is there any way to know what the effect of building the terraforming buildings would be on a world without doing it?

Here's the text from the tooltip that describes the effects of stellar reflectors:

Conditions that can be improved by terraforming using stellar reflectors: Dust storms, suboptimal atmospheric density, extreme weather, inimical biosphere, meteor impacts, less than adequate farmland, and less than common organics.

Conditions that cannot be improved by terraforming using stellar reflectors: Commodity shortages, unrest, rogue AI cores, presence of ruins, decivilized subpopulations, tectonic activity, lack of a mild climate, high or low gravity, pollution, atmospheric toxicity, radiation, and lack of ore or volatiles.

Not trying to be pushy, as I do kinda agree with the whole thing (Though I would like a way to terraform planets without a easy source of water, maybe converted tankers transporting massive amounts of fluid water or something, as a expensive, extremely slow way, like putting out a trade request or something) about trivializing the process. However, water exists as ice in a lot of comets and asteroids so its not really 'out there' as an idea. Whether or not flinging large amounts of clumped water-ice at a planet is a good idea notwithstanding, it would be logical enough. So heres what I'd say, if its an idea that is implemented, instead of making it part of a colony, instead make it its own campaign map token, 'Intersystem Mass Driver' or something, and make it expensive as all hecc, taking in account that the structure on its own would need to power itself, protect itself from asteroids and propel itself so the force of its payload being launched doesn't make it a one-use tool. Maybe it can have a small market for antimatter fuel, worn machinery or something, but unlike a colony, it has a negative growth strike making it unlikely to ever get above 3-4 size without intensive effort by the player, Theoretically it should probably have some ore capabilities too though for mining? Just some ideas to toss in if it was to be added.

Isn't the description of a ring system involve talking about some of them being ice at least? Maybe, but just thought I'd say what I thought on the whole matter.

In any case, I dropped by to say that so far I haven't had any issues, but I haven't had much time to try it out and to see how Ismara's sling works on the FDS planets that I've been having the issues with!

Creating a special station with unique market conditions would definitely add too much complexity, and there's no precedent for this sort of thing in the vanilla lore. There's always the MUD for terraforming desert worlds without a frozen/water/cryovolcanic planet in system.

I'm glad the FDS planets don't seem to be causing any problems. Hopefully it stays that way!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.3.2)
Post by: Uhlang on December 23, 2019, 05:24:57 AM
4) The Ismara's Sling is based on lore from the planet Ismara in the Penelope system so it fits better with the vanilla lore than redirecting asteroids, which is not present in the vanilla game.
But it is. Here's part of the description for Suddene in the Westernesse system.
Quote
The terraforming of Suddene and attendant trains of water-bearing comets were rapidly abandoned post-Collapse as the remaining authorities focused resources on pure survival.
And it's theorized that our own Earth's oceans got a portion of their water from comets beyond the frost line in the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter, so if you were to implement something like this, it should probably be limited to systems with asteroid belts in a similar position(like Galatia, the asteroid belt there is right next to a cold barren world). It would be realistic, lore-friendly, and wouldn't make Ismara's Sling obsolete. Though, I don't know a bit about modding, so I'm not sure if that's possible.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.3.2)
Post by: Ramdat on December 23, 2019, 12:25:15 PM
Does terraforming remove existing positive planet traits such as rich minerals?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.3.2)
Post by: Kulverstukass on December 23, 2019, 12:56:31 PM
Does terraforming remove existing positive planet traits such as rich minerals?
nope
made few barrens rich w/minerals into terran through magic box and cryovolcanic rich in volatiles into waterworld with mirrors, nothing were lost
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.3.2)
Post by: Mayan on December 24, 2019, 01:22:13 PM
Greetings guys

I am Mayan from the old terraforming mod.

I am ashamed and guilty for leaving the mod alone (without any other dev), that was due to changes in my personal life.

I like what i see

* Really nice collaboration here it is great
* The art is beautiful (Miller-Urey Device looks shiny and the structures very cool)
* Forward thinking (that even far from mine to be honest)

Even so i am not playing starsector or any other games currently, i will be here from sometimes to see what ideas and lore there is here.
(And i just really love terraforming fantasy )
To be honest you show here modding skills that i don't have myself, but you can ask me questions, and maybe i will share some ideas. Unfortunately i will not able to contribute allot of effort myself due to stress in my personal life.

Maybe in the next week i could check issue about the ghost planet

I thank the contributors, i am sure Keld_Rhygar also here, to Boggled for taking the lead and credit me
I am honored to know that my code give some inspiration and some of it even still in use
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.3.2)
Post by: boggled on December 24, 2019, 04:07:08 PM
Does terraforming remove existing positive planet traits such as rich minerals?

At one time there were certain situations where this could occur, but due to negative feedback I have eliminated any instance where resources could be reduced.

4) The Ismara's Sling is based on lore from the planet Ismara in the Penelope system so it fits better with the vanilla lore than redirecting asteroids, which is not present in the vanilla game.
But it is. Here's part of the description for Suddene in the Westernesse system.
Quote
The terraforming of Suddene and attendant trains of water-bearing comets were rapidly abandoned post-Collapse as the remaining authorities focused resources on pure survival.
And it's theorized that our own Earth's oceans got a portion of their water from comets beyond the frost line in the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter, so if you were to implement something like this, it should probably be limited to systems with asteroid belts in a similar position(like Galatia, the asteroid belt there is right next to a cold barren world). It would be realistic, lore-friendly, and wouldn't make Ismara's Sling obsolete. Though, I don't know a bit about modding, so I'm not sure if that's possible.

Alright, you've convinced me. I'm going to start working on an update that will implement terraforming of desert planets using water-ice asteroids/comets. My current plan is to create a new building called "High-bandwidth FTL Infrastructure" or something similar that gives a bonus to accessibility and mining production for station markets only. Then if you have the FTL infrastructure building, you will be able to build another industry that's functionally identical to Ismara's Sling to redirect water-ice asteroids/comets for terraforming purposes. Ideally the asteroid redirection industry would only be buildable on stations beyond the frost line of the star(s) in that system, but this would probably be too confusing/frustrating for players and too difficult to implement.

Please let me know if you have any thoughts regarding this plan!

Greetings guys

I am Mayan from the old terraforming mod.

I am ashamed and guilty for leaving the mod alone (without any other dev), that was due to changes in my personal life.

I like what i see

* Really nice collaboration here it is great
* The art is beautiful (Miller-Urey Device looks shiny and the structures very cool)
* Forward thinking (that even far from mine to be honest)

Even so i am not playing starsector or any other games currently, i will be here from sometimes to see what ideas and lore there is here.
(And i just really love terraforming fantasy )
To be honest you show here modding skills that i don't have myself, but you can ask me questions, and maybe i will share some ideas. Unfortunately i will not able to contribute allot of effort myself due to stress in my personal life.

Maybe in the next week i could check issue about the ghost planet

I thank the contributors, i am sure Keld_Rhygar also here, to Boggled for taking the lead and credit me
I am honored to know that my code give some inspiration and some of it even still in use

Thank you for your appreciation of my work and for your code that I've used!

As far as the "ghost planet" issue goes, Alex has indicated there will be an API update in the next version of Starsector which I'm sure will allow me to resolve this problem completely. Trying to resolve it on the current version of the API is a rabbit hole you don't want to go down!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.3.2)
Post by: Uhlang on December 25, 2019, 03:30:31 PM
Alright, you've convinced me. I'm going to start working on an update that will implement terraforming of desert planets using water-ice asteroids/comets. My current plan is to create a new building called "High-bandwidth FTL Infrastructure" or something similar that gives a bonus to accessibility and mining production for station markets only. Then if you have the FTL infrastructure building, you will be able to build another industry that's functionally identical to Ismara's Sling to redirect water-ice asteroids/comets for terraforming purposes. Ideally the asteroid redirection industry would only be buildable on stations beyond the frost line of the star(s) in that system, but this would probably be too confusing/frustrating for players and too difficult to implement.

Please let me know if you have any thoughts regarding this plan!

Sounds good, but if it's impossible to limit it with frost lines, the overall investment for it should be VERY high, or at least high enough to make the sling the better option every time there's a water-ice world in the system.
I'm not sure if that's what you meant when you called it an "industry," but making it take up an industry slot is another good way to make it less appealing than the sling, and considering that the planetary hydration operation would also need functioning ships to hunt down and bring over the asteroids/comets, it should also have a demand for ship hulls, supplies, and crew, if only for realism's sake.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.3.2)
Post by: Razaghal on December 25, 2019, 06:50:35 PM
Hey, I think the idea of using mining stations for terraforming planets it's a good idea.
I was wondering if you will add a structure that allows you to "purify" toxic atmospheres. Probably a building around 750k or 1m credits and 180 days to build. In conjunction with Stellar mirrors or shades, it allows you to terraform a planet. (Probably from Toxic -> a random planet except volcanic, cryo(?) and irradiated. -> Terran(?)).
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.3.2)
Post by: boggled on December 26, 2019, 03:59:23 PM
Hey, I think the idea of using mining stations for terraforming planets it's a good idea.
I was wondering if you will add a structure that allows you to "purify" toxic atmospheres. Probably a building around 750k or 1m credits and 180 days to build. In conjunction with Stellar mirrors or shades, it allows you to terraform a planet. (Probably from Toxic -> a random planet except volcanic, cryo(?) and irradiated. -> Terran(?)).


You can terraform those planets with the Miller-Urey device!

What kind of building could feasibly terraform a toxic atmosphere (ex. Venus atmosphere)? Is there any precedent in the Starsector lore? I know the MUD violates these rules, but I'm trying to keep that as the only exception.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
Post by: Serenitis on December 31, 2019, 10:51:15 AM
I don't think there's anything in the current lore of starsector which goes into any amount of detail about toxic worlds other than; they're unpleasant and people generally don't bother with them.

To change the toxic atmosphere you need to know 'how' a particular planet is toxic before you can do anything.
For our purposes that's impossible, so we'd have to abstract it.

Eg: Venus.
Venus is ~90 atmospheres worth of carbon dioxide. You need to get rid of that gas somehow, there's two paths you can follow.

1. Physical.
Scoop up the gas however and dump it somewhere else.
Fling stuff at the planet and let the mass ejections jet parts of the atmosphere into space.
Install a solar shade to reduce the amount of radiation recieved by the planet, which will (eventually) condense the atmosphere and freeze the CO2 into dry ice.
Could also be achieved by floating large reflective surfaces high in the atmosphere.

2. Chemical.
Introduce large quantities of hydrogen to the atmosphere, the resulting reaction would produce carbon (probably as graphite) and water, which could be used to further the terraforming process.
Introduce large quantities of calcium & magnesium to the atmosphere, the resulting reaction would produce calcium & magnesium carbonates. This is a more effective carbon 'sink' than using hydrogen, but does not produce any water.

Posibly all these, with the exception of the 'mass ejections' would be useable as an abstracted means to accomplish this.
Scooping -> Atmospheric Siphon
Shade -> Already exists
Floating ->Atmospheric Reflectors
Chemical -> Atmospheric Condenser

The only thing to be wary of with the last one is that by 'large quantities' we're talking somewhere in the region of 1020kg. That's a lot of mass.
So it might be an idea if there's some manner of industry that will accomplish this that it would require a nanoforge to work at all in human timescales. The quality of which would dictate how fast it works.



Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.3.2)
Post by: NephilimNexus on January 01, 2020, 08:20:44 AM
What kind of building could feasibly terraform a toxic atmosphere (ex. Venus atmosphere)?

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b6/25/43/b625432df952fccdd1697df0d16fb399.jpg)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.3.2)
Post by: boggled on January 01, 2020, 11:35:49 AM
What kind of building could feasibly terraform a toxic atmosphere (ex. Venus atmosphere)?

Spoiler
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b6/25/43/b625432df952fccdd1697df0d16fb399.jpg)
[close]

I don't think there's anything in the current lore of starsector which goes into any amount of detail about toxic worlds other than; they're unpleasant and people generally don't bother with them.

To change the toxic atmosphere you need to know 'how' a particular planet is toxic before you can do anything.
For our purposes that's impossible, so we'd have to abstract it.

Eg: Venus.
Venus is ~90 atmospheres worth of carbon dioxide. You need to get rid of that gas somehow, there's two paths you can follow.

1. Physical.
Scoop up the gas however and dump it somewhere else.
Fling stuff at the planet and let the mass ejections jet parts of the atmosphere into space.
Install a solar shade to reduce the amount of radiation recieved by the planet, which will (eventually) condense the atmosphere and freeze the CO2 into dry ice.
Could also be achieved by floating large reflective surfaces high in the atmosphere.

2. Chemical.
Introduce large quantities of hydrogen to the atmosphere, the resulting reaction would produce carbon (probably as graphite) and water, which could be used to further the terraforming process.
Introduce large quantities of calcium & magnesium to the atmosphere, the resulting reaction would produce calcium & magnesium carbonates. This is a more effective carbon 'sink' than using hydrogen, but does not produce any water.

Posibly all these, with the exception of the 'mass ejections' would be useable as an abstracted means to accomplish this.
Scooping -> Atmospheric Siphon
Shade -> Already exists
Floating ->Atmospheric Reflectors
Chemical -> Atmospheric Condenser

The only thing to be wary of with the last one is that by 'large quantities' we're talking somewhere in the region of 1020kg. That's a lot of mass.
So it might be an idea if there's some manner of industry that will accomplish this that it would require a nanoforge to work at all in human timescales. The quality of which would dictate how fast it works.

Ok, I'm convinced. I'll implement a structure to terraform toxic planets. I'll see what I can do about incorporating the nanoforge idea!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
Post by: Uhlang on January 01, 2020, 05:15:27 PM
While we're on the topic of expanding the range of terraformable planets, how would Ogygia work?

Despite it being a barren-bombarded world, Eridani-Utopia considered it a secondary target after Ithaca, meaning that terraforming it is definitely lore-friendly. Problem is that the flavor text doesn't go into the methods at all beyond implying that they would've used the same infrastructure they planned to use for Ithaca.
My guess is that they would've used the mass-drivers at Ismara to feed it not just water-ice, but also methane and ammonia to bring the nitrogen needed for an Earth-like atmosphere, but there's gotta be more to this endeavor.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
Post by: boggled on January 01, 2020, 06:18:42 PM
While we're on the topic of expanding the range of terraformable planets, how would Ogygia work?

Despite it being a barren-bombarded world, Eridani-Utopia considered it a secondary target after Ithaca, meaning that terraforming it is definitely lore-friendly. Problem is that the flavor text doesn't go into the methods at all beyond implying that they would've used the same infrastructure they planned to use for Ithaca.
My guess is that they would've used the mass-drivers at Ismara to feed it not just water-ice, but also methane and ammonia to bring the nitrogen needed for an Earth-like atmosphere, but there's gotta be more to this endeavor.

I was puzzled by this as well when I was reading the descriptions for the Penelope system.

Ismara's description refers to the "terrestrial planets" closer to the star, so presumably Ismara would be feeding it materials as you suggested. The problem is Ogygia has no atmosphere, so I'm not sure what good throwing water at it would do.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
Post by: Serenitis on January 02, 2020, 04:17:19 AM
The phrase "terrestrial planets" generally refers to worlds with a rocky/solid surface, a silicate mantle, and a metallic core.
And specifically in the context of our solar system it also refers to the innermost 4 planets.

You wouldn't be throwing water at Ogygia though. You'd be throwing ice. And that's an important distinction.
By throwing chunks of ice / ice comets at Ogygia (via Ismara's Sling) the resulting impacts would release all kinds of things, including water vapour. The impacts themselves might also liberate any water trapped in the rocks, plus whatever was in the provided 'package'.
Eventually this 'atmosphere' could become thick enough to allow the vapour to condense and form liquids. ('Eventually', as such impacts tend to be somewhat energetic and some fraction of any liberated useful matter could be flung off into space.)

The key thing is getting an atmosphere capable of exerting enough pressure on the water to allow it to exist as a liquid.
Doesn't really matter what that atmosphere is initially, that can be adjusted later. Getting liquid water on the surface is the primary goal.

Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
Post by: Uhlang on January 02, 2020, 08:22:31 AM
Wouldn't the imported atmosphere just get blown away by the solar wind before it has a chance to have any sort of effect?
It would need a magnetic field or shield to keep it safe while the sling/drones do their work. Though, Ogygia is about as big as Ithaca, so assuming they're about the same age, Ogygia's core might still be active enough to produce a magnetic field, just like Ithaca's.
I'm not 100% sure if that's how it works, though. I just heard that Mars' core shut down long before Earth's because it's smaller.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
Post by: Valikdu on January 02, 2020, 01:56:09 PM
I ran into the problem of only 12 structures being possible to build on a planet. Is there any way to build more?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
Post by: BringerofBabies on January 03, 2020, 05:34:47 AM
I ran into the problem of only 12 structures being possible to build on a planet. Is there any way to build more?

No, that's a hard coded limit in the base game.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
Post by: Uhlang on January 03, 2020, 08:22:17 AM
My terraformed Ithaca was attacked so I went to defend it and noticed that it doesn't look so terraformed in the battle.

Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/97341c4a0b8deb02bd2928bb825b001d.png)
[close]

I'm guessing it's related to the ghost planet issue, so I doubt there's anything that can be done about it, but I just thought I'd let you know.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
Post by: k2arim99 on January 03, 2020, 08:31:04 AM
im getting a error after updating
Code
104187 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Error loading
104187 [Thread-5] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  -
---- Debugging information ----
cause-exception     : com.thoughtworks.xstream.mapper.CannotResolveClassException
cause-message       : data.campaign.econ.industries.Stellar_Shade_Array
class               : java.util.ArrayList
required-type       : java.util.ArrayList
converter-type      : com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.collections.CollectionConverter
line number         : 6197
class[1]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.Market
converter-type[1]   : com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.reflection.ReflectionConverter
class[2]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignPlanet
class[3]            : com.fs.util.container.repo.ObjectRepository
class[4]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.StarSystem
class[5]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CircularOrbit
class[6]            : com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.FactionProduction
class[7]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.Faction
class[8]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.Submarket
class[9]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.reach.ReachEconomy
class[10]           : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.reach.ReachEconomyStepper
class[11]           : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.Economy
class[12]           : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.StarSystem$UpdateFromHyperspaceLocation
class[13]           : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.BaseLocation$LocationToken
class[14]           : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.Hyperspace
class[15]           : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine
converter-type[2]   : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.I
version             : not available
-------------------------------
com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.ConversionException:
---- Debugging information ----
cause-exception     : com.thoughtworks.xstream.mapper.CannotResolveClassException
cause-message       : data.campaign.econ.industries.Stellar_Shade_Array
class               : java.util.ArrayList
required-type       : java.util.ArrayList
converter-type      : com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.collections.CollectionConverter
line number         : 6197
class[1]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.Market
converter-type[1]   : com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.reflection.ReflectionConverter
class[2]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignPlanet
class[3]            : com.fs.util.container.repo.ObjectRepository
class[4]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.StarSystem
class[5]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CircularOrbit
class[6]            : com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.FactionProduction


Code
com.fs.starfarer.title.ooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
        at com.fs.starfarer.ui.k.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
        at com.fs.starfarer.ui.int.new(Unknown Source)
        at com.fs.starfarer.ui.int.processInput(Unknown Source)
        at com.fs.starfarer.ui.V.super(Unknown Source)
        at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
        at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
        at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
        at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
        at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Caused by: com.thoughtworks.xstream.mapper.CannotResolveClassException: data.campaign.econ.industries.Stellar_Shade_Array
        at com.thoughtworks.xstream.mapper.DefaultMapper.realClass(DefaultMapper.java:81)
        at com.thoughtworks.xstream.mapper.MapperWrapper.realClass(MapperWrapper.java:125)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
Post by: boggled on January 03, 2020, 03:54:33 PM
The phrase "terrestrial planets" generally refers to worlds with a rocky/solid surface, a silicate mantle, and a metallic core.
And specifically in the context of our solar system it also refers to the innermost 4 planets.

You wouldn't be throwing water at Ogygia though. You'd be throwing ice. And that's an important distinction.
By throwing chunks of ice / ice comets at Ogygia (via Ismara's Sling) the resulting impacts would release all kinds of things, including water vapour. The impacts themselves might also liberate any water trapped in the rocks, plus whatever was in the provided 'package'.
Eventually this 'atmosphere' could become thick enough to allow the vapour to condense and form liquids. ('Eventually', as such impacts tend to be somewhat energetic and some fraction of any liberated useful matter could be flung off into space.)

The key thing is getting an atmosphere capable of exerting enough pressure on the water to allow it to exist as a liquid.
Doesn't really matter what that atmosphere is initially, that can be adjusted later. Getting liquid water on the surface is the primary goal.

This would require an enormous amount of ice/material/etc. to accomplish on a planet with no preexisting atmosphere right? I did some calculations and it seems the "launch ice using mass drivers" plan would require such an enormous amount of ice to make any difference even on a planet like Ithaca that it wouldn't be feasible on a human timescale. Plus, Ogygia probably has little to no magnetic field because it lacks an atmosphere to begin with, right?

My terraformed Ithaca was attacked so I went to defend it and noticed that it doesn't look so terraformed in the battle.

Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/97341c4a0b8deb02bd2928bb825b001d.png)
[close]

I'm guessing it's related to the ghost planet issue, so I doubt there's anything that can be done about it, but I just thought I'd let you know.

It might be connected to the ghost planet problem. Once the next version of starsector is released and I fix the ghost planet problem, I will take another look at this. Thanks for reporting this!

im getting a error after updating

Spoiler
Code
104187 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Error loading
104187 [Thread-5] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  -
---- Debugging information ----
cause-exception     : com.thoughtworks.xstream.mapper.CannotResolveClassException
cause-message       : data.campaign.econ.industries.Stellar_Shade_Array
class               : java.util.ArrayList
required-type       : java.util.ArrayList
converter-type      : com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.collections.CollectionConverter
line number         : 6197
class[1]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.Market
converter-type[1]   : com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.reflection.ReflectionConverter
class[2]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignPlanet
class[3]            : com.fs.util.container.repo.ObjectRepository
class[4]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.StarSystem
class[5]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CircularOrbit
class[6]            : com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.FactionProduction
class[7]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.Faction
class[8]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.Submarket
class[9]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.reach.ReachEconomy
class[10]           : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.reach.ReachEconomyStepper
class[11]           : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.Economy
class[12]           : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.StarSystem$UpdateFromHyperspaceLocation
class[13]           : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.BaseLocation$LocationToken
class[14]           : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.Hyperspace
class[15]           : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine
converter-type[2]   : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.I
version             : not available
-------------------------------
com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.ConversionException:
---- Debugging information ----
cause-exception     : com.thoughtworks.xstream.mapper.CannotResolveClassException
cause-message       : data.campaign.econ.industries.Stellar_Shade_Array
class               : java.util.ArrayList
required-type       : java.util.ArrayList
converter-type      : com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.collections.CollectionConverter
line number         : 6197
class[1]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.Market
converter-type[1]   : com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.reflection.ReflectionConverter
class[2]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignPlanet
class[3]            : com.fs.util.container.repo.ObjectRepository
class[4]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.StarSystem
class[5]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CircularOrbit
class[6]            : com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.FactionProduction


Code
com.fs.starfarer.title.ooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
        at com.fs.starfarer.ui.k.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
        at com.fs.starfarer.ui.int.new(Unknown Source)
        at com.fs.starfarer.ui.int.processInput(Unknown Source)
        at com.fs.starfarer.ui.V.super(Unknown Source)
        at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
        at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
        at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
        at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
        at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Caused by: com.thoughtworks.xstream.mapper.CannotResolveClassException: data.campaign.econ.industries.Stellar_Shade_Array
        at com.thoughtworks.xstream.mapper.DefaultMapper.realClass(DefaultMapper.java:81)
        at com.thoughtworks.xstream.mapper.MapperWrapper.realClass(MapperWrapper.java:125)
[close]

I see that my Stellar Shade Array is referenced in that error, but I'm not certain of the cause. When does the error occur? Are there any steps you can give me to replicate it? Thanks!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
Post by: BringerofBabies on January 03, 2020, 04:59:36 PM
Plus, Ogygia probably has little to no magnetic field because it lacks an atmosphere to begin with, right?

I think that you have cause and effect reversed there - a magnetic field would come from a rotating (read: hot/liquid) electrically conducting (iron is good for this as well as being dense for gravitational purposes) core and the presence of such a field would help retain an atmosphere by preventing solar winds from stripping the atmosphere away. The presence of an atmosphere does not affect the magnetic field in any way. Additionally, magnetic field or not, an atmosphere would require enough gravity to hold it in place - Mercury has almost no atmosphere, but a strong magnetic field.

To add an atmosphere to a planet heavy enough to hold one, you would either want to add an artificial magnetosphere or continually add more atmosphere to account for solar winds - Mars loses about 100 grams/second according to the MAVEN mission.

And for the sake of completeness on the topic, we think that Jupiter and Saturn get their magnetic fields from a thick layer of liquid, metallic hydrogen that wraps the solid core.

Edit: A quick search for "artificial magnetosphere" turned up an article (https://phys.org/news/2017-03-nasa-magnetic-shield-mars-atmosphere.html) about a plan to put a generated magnetic field between the sun and Mars in order to place Mars within the wake of the field, largely protected from solar winds. Another orbital structure!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
Post by: k2arim99 on January 03, 2020, 08:54:28 PM

im getting a error after updating

Spoiler
Code
104187 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Error loading
104187 [Thread-5] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  -
---- Debugging information ----
cause-exception     : com.thoughtworks.xstream.mapper.CannotResolveClassException
cause-message       : data.campaign.econ.industries.Stellar_Shade_Array
class               : java.util.ArrayList
required-type       : java.util.ArrayList
converter-type      : com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.collections.CollectionConverter
line number         : 6197
class[1]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.Market
converter-type[1]   : com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.reflection.ReflectionConverter
class[2]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignPlanet
class[3]            : com.fs.util.container.repo.ObjectRepository
class[4]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.StarSystem
class[5]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CircularOrbit
class[6]            : com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.FactionProduction
class[7]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.Faction
class[8]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.Submarket
class[9]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.reach.ReachEconomy
class[10]           : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.reach.ReachEconomyStepper
class[11]           : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.Economy
class[12]           : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.StarSystem$UpdateFromHyperspaceLocation
class[13]           : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.BaseLocation$LocationToken
class[14]           : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.Hyperspace
class[15]           : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine
converter-type[2]   : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.I
version             : not available
-------------------------------
com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.ConversionException:
---- Debugging information ----
cause-exception     : com.thoughtworks.xstream.mapper.CannotResolveClassException
cause-message       : data.campaign.econ.industries.Stellar_Shade_Array
class               : java.util.ArrayList
required-type       : java.util.ArrayList
converter-type      : com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.collections.CollectionConverter
line number         : 6197
class[1]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.Market
converter-type[1]   : com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.reflection.ReflectionConverter
class[2]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignPlanet
class[3]            : com.fs.util.container.repo.ObjectRepository
class[4]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.StarSystem
class[5]            : com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CircularOrbit
class[6]            : com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.FactionProduction


Code
com.fs.starfarer.title.ooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
        at com.fs.starfarer.ui.k.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
        at com.fs.starfarer.ui.int.new(Unknown Source)
        at com.fs.starfarer.ui.int.processInput(Unknown Source)
        at com.fs.starfarer.ui.V.super(Unknown Source)
        at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
        at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
        at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
        at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
        at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Caused by: com.thoughtworks.xstream.mapper.CannotResolveClassException: data.campaign.econ.industries.Stellar_Shade_Array
        at com.thoughtworks.xstream.mapper.DefaultMapper.realClass(DefaultMapper.java:81)
        at com.thoughtworks.xstream.mapper.MapperWrapper.realClass(MapperWrapper.java:125)
[close]

I see that my Stellar Shade Array is referenced in that error, but I'm not certain of the cause. When does the error occur? Are there any steps you can give me to replicate it? Thanks!

im afraid yes, sorry i wrongly thought it was a thing of your mod but it was a dumb error of mine, keep up the good work! im a big fan of your mod!!!

Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
Post by: Green Ghost on January 04, 2020, 05:46:32 AM
Are dust worlds included in the desert category? i don't see them mentioned anywhere. Maybe give us a list of all planets that are/aren't affected by the terraforming structures?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
Post by: Uhlang on January 04, 2020, 07:23:22 AM
Are dust worlds included in the desert category? i don't see them mentioned anywhere.
Pretty sure they're from Unknown Skies, and from the many surveys I did on them, I assume that they're just reskins of barren worlds, which can't be terraformed.
Never tried it, though.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
Post by: boggled on January 04, 2020, 09:09:38 AM
Are dust worlds included in the desert category? i don't see them mentioned anywhere. Maybe give us a list of all planets that are/aren't affected by the terraforming structures?

US_dust and many other Unknown Skies planet types are actually classified as desert planets, which means they can be terraformed using stellar shades and and Ismara's Sling/Drone Control Nexus. Here is the current planet type code if you want to see the classfications (toxic planets are classified as barren in the current release version, but the next update will change that):

Spoiler
public static String getPlanetType(PlanetAPI planet)
    {
        if(planet.getTypeId().equals("nebula_center_old") || planet.getTypeId().equals("nebula_center_average") || planet.getTypeId().equals("nebula_center_young") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_neutron") || planet.getTypeId().equals("black_hole") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_yellow") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_white") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_blue_giant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_blue_supergiant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_orange") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_orange_giant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_red_supergiant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_red_giant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_red_dwarf") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_browndwarf") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_star_blue_giant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_star_yellow") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_star_orange") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_star_red_giant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_star_white") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_star_browndwarf"))
        {
            return "star";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("gas_giant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("ice_giant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_gas_giant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_gas_giantB"))
        {
            return "gas_giant";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("barren") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren_castiron") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren2") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren3") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren_venuslike") ||  planet.getTypeId().equals("rocky_metallic") || planet.getTypeId().equals("rocky_unstable") || planet.getTypeId().equals("rocky_ice") || planet.getTypeId().equals("irradiated") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren-bombarded") ||  planet.getTypeId().equals("US_acid") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_acidRain") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_acidWind") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_barrenA") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_barrenB") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_barrenC") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_barrenD") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_barrenE") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_barrenF") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_azure") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_burnt") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_artificial"))
        {
            return "barren";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("toxic") || planet.getTypeId().equals("toxic_cold") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_green"))
        {
            return "toxic";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("desert") || planet.getTypeId().equals("desert1") || planet.getTypeId().equals("arid") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren-desert") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_dust") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_desertA") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_desertB") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_desertC") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_red") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_redWind") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_lifelessArid") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_arid") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_crimson") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_storm"))
        {
            return "desert";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("terran") || planet.getTypeId().equals("terran-eccentric") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_lifeless") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_alkali") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_auric") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_auricCloudy") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_continent") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_magnetic"))
        {
            return "terran";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("water") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_water") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_waterB"))
        {
            return "water";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("tundra") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_purple"))
        {
            return "tundra";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("jungle") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_jungle"))
        {
            return "jungle";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("frozen") || planet.getTypeId().equals("frozen1") || planet.getTypeId().equals("frozen2") || planet.getTypeId().equals("frozen3") || planet.getTypeId().equals("cryovolcanic") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_iceA") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_iceB") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_blue"))
        {
            return "frozen";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("lava") || planet.getTypeId().equals("lava_minor") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_lava") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_volcanic"))
        {
            return "volcanic";
        }
        else
        {
            return "unknown";
        }
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
Post by: BringerofBabies on January 04, 2020, 09:54:07 AM
Code style suggestion:
Would it not be cleaner to use a switch statement on all those types, which would also avoid the worst case scenario of calling getTypeId() 91 times?
Spoiler
switch (planet.getTypeId()) {
    case "nebula_center_old":
    case "nebula_center_average":
    case "nebula_center_young":
        return "star";
    default:
        return "unknown";
}
[close]
I haven't worked in Java, so I'm just assuming that that will be supported and work properly (looks like it was added in JDK 7, which I believe Starsector uses?).
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
Post by: boggled on January 04, 2020, 10:45:47 AM
Code style suggestion:
Would it not be cleaner to use a switch statement on all those types, which would also avoid the worst case scenario of calling getTypeId() 91 times?
Spoiler
switch (planet.getTypeId()) {
    case "nebula_center_old":
    case "nebula_center_average":
    case "nebula_center_young":
        return "star";
    default:
        return "unknown";
}
[close]
I haven't worked in Java, so I'm just assuming that that will be supported and work properly (looks like it was added in JDK 7, which I believe Starsector uses?).

Yes, that would likely improve performance. The problem is if I need to make changes in the future that incorporate other factors besides the planet type ID then it will become a lot more complicated with the switch method. Maybe I'll just get a string from getTypeId() and compare against that rather than calling getTypeId() for every single comparison. That would probably have comparable performance to the switch method while keeping the if statement format intact so I can make changes later if I need to.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
Post by: Green Ghost on January 04, 2020, 10:51:22 AM
Are dust worlds included in the desert category? i don't see them mentioned anywhere. Maybe give us a list of all planets that are/aren't affected by the terraforming structures?

US_dust and many other Unknown Skies planet types are actually classified as desert planets, which means they can be terraformed using stellar shades and and Ismara's Sling/Drone Control Nexus. Here is the current planet type code if you want to see the classfications (toxic planets are classified as barren in the current release version, but the next update will change that):

Spoiler
public static String getPlanetType(PlanetAPI planet)
    {
        if(planet.getTypeId().equals("nebula_center_old") || planet.getTypeId().equals("nebula_center_average") || planet.getTypeId().equals("nebula_center_young") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_neutron") || planet.getTypeId().equals("black_hole") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_yellow") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_white") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_blue_giant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_blue_supergiant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_orange") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_orange_giant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_red_supergiant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_red_giant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_red_dwarf") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_browndwarf") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_star_blue_giant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_star_yellow") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_star_orange") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_star_red_giant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_star_white") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_star_browndwarf"))
        {
            return "star";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("gas_giant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("ice_giant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_gas_giant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_gas_giantB"))
        {
            return "gas_giant";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("barren") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren_castiron") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren2") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren3") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren_venuslike") ||  planet.getTypeId().equals("rocky_metallic") || planet.getTypeId().equals("rocky_unstable") || planet.getTypeId().equals("rocky_ice") || planet.getTypeId().equals("irradiated") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren-bombarded") ||  planet.getTypeId().equals("US_acid") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_acidRain") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_acidWind") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_barrenA") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_barrenB") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_barrenC") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_barrenD") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_barrenE") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_barrenF") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_azure") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_burnt") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_artificial"))
        {
            return "barren";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("toxic") || planet.getTypeId().equals("toxic_cold") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_green"))
        {
            return "toxic";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("desert") || planet.getTypeId().equals("desert1") || planet.getTypeId().equals("arid") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren-desert") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_dust") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_desertA") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_desertB") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_desertC") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_red") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_redWind") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_lifelessArid") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_arid") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_crimson") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_storm"))
        {
            return "desert";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("terran") || planet.getTypeId().equals("terran-eccentric") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_lifeless") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_alkali") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_auric") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_auricCloudy") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_continent") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_magnetic"))
        {
            return "terran";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("water") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_water") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_waterB"))
        {
            return "water";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("tundra") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_purple"))
        {
            return "tundra";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("jungle") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_jungle"))
        {
            return "jungle";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("frozen") || planet.getTypeId().equals("frozen1") || planet.getTypeId().equals("frozen2") || planet.getTypeId().equals("frozen3") || planet.getTypeId().equals("cryovolcanic") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_iceA") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_iceB") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_blue"))
        {
            return "frozen";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("lava") || planet.getTypeId().equals("lava_minor") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_lava") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_volcanic"))
        {
            return "volcanic";
        }
        else
        {
            return "unknown";
        }
[close]
I can't really understand any of that code so that doesn't exactly give me much to go on, sorry.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
Post by: boggled on January 04, 2020, 11:20:28 AM
Are dust worlds included in the desert category? i don't see them mentioned anywhere. Maybe give us a list of all planets that are/aren't affected by the terraforming structures?

US_dust and many other Unknown Skies planet types are actually classified as desert planets, which means they can be terraformed using stellar shades and and Ismara's Sling/Drone Control Nexus. Here is the current planet type code if you want to see the classfications (toxic planets are classified as barren in the current release version, but the next update will change that):

Spoiler
public static String getPlanetType(PlanetAPI planet)
    {
        if(planet.getTypeId().equals("nebula_center_old") || planet.getTypeId().equals("nebula_center_average") || planet.getTypeId().equals("nebula_center_young") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_neutron") || planet.getTypeId().equals("black_hole") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_yellow") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_white") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_blue_giant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_blue_supergiant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_orange") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_orange_giant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_red_supergiant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_red_giant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_red_dwarf") || planet.getTypeId().equals("star_browndwarf") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_star_blue_giant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_star_yellow") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_star_orange") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_star_red_giant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_star_white") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_star_browndwarf"))
        {
            return "star";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("gas_giant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("ice_giant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_gas_giant") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_gas_giantB"))
        {
            return "gas_giant";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("barren") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren_castiron") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren2") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren3") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren_venuslike") ||  planet.getTypeId().equals("rocky_metallic") || planet.getTypeId().equals("rocky_unstable") || planet.getTypeId().equals("rocky_ice") || planet.getTypeId().equals("irradiated") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren-bombarded") ||  planet.getTypeId().equals("US_acid") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_acidRain") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_acidWind") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_barrenA") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_barrenB") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_barrenC") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_barrenD") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_barrenE") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_barrenF") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_azure") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_burnt") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_artificial"))
        {
            return "barren";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("toxic") || planet.getTypeId().equals("toxic_cold") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_green"))
        {
            return "toxic";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("desert") || planet.getTypeId().equals("desert1") || planet.getTypeId().equals("arid") || planet.getTypeId().equals("barren-desert") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_dust") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_desertA") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_desertB") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_desertC") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_red") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_redWind") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_lifelessArid") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_arid") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_crimson") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_storm"))
        {
            return "desert";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("terran") || planet.getTypeId().equals("terran-eccentric") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_lifeless") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_alkali") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_auric") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_auricCloudy") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_continent") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_magnetic"))
        {
            return "terran";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("water") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_water") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_waterB"))
        {
            return "water";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("tundra") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_purple"))
        {
            return "tundra";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("jungle") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_jungle"))
        {
            return "jungle";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("frozen") || planet.getTypeId().equals("frozen1") || planet.getTypeId().equals("frozen2") || planet.getTypeId().equals("frozen3") || planet.getTypeId().equals("cryovolcanic") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_iceA") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_iceB") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_blue"))
        {
            return "frozen";
        }
        else if(planet.getTypeId().equals("lava") || planet.getTypeId().equals("lava_minor") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_lava") || planet.getTypeId().equals("US_volcanic"))
        {
            return "volcanic";
        }
        else
        {
            return "unknown";
        }
[close]
I can't really understand any of that code so that doesn't exactly give me much to go on, sorry.

If you open up data/config/planets.json you will see all the planet types present in the code. The planet types you see in-game don't exactly correspond to what's in the code, which might be confusing. The US planets are all prefixed with "US_". There are too many types for me to go through and create a list for you here in non-code format. Sorry!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
Post by: Green Ghost on January 06, 2020, 01:43:56 PM
Concerning the Miller-Urey Device, are there any planets in particular that can't be terraformed or are you mostly refering to planets from other mods?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
Post by: LucusLoC on January 06, 2020, 06:35:57 PM
Running into a crash with an Astropolis:

Code
194045 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at data.campaign.econ.industries.Astropolis_Station.buildingFinished(Astropolis_Station.java:193)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.BaseIndustry.finishBuildingOrUpgrading(BaseIndustry.java:477)
at data.campaign.econ.industries.Astropolis_Station.finishBuildingOrUpgrading(Astropolis_Station.java:57)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.BaseIndustry.advance(BaseIndustry.java:375)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.Market.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.Economy.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

A few points that are relevant:

I have a copy of the save file and a mod list (with version numbers) if you want to test yourself. I have a way forwards, and all I lose is the build time, so no big deal, but I figured I would bring it up in case it is a systemic problem.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
Post by: boggled on January 07, 2020, 01:53:01 PM
Concerning the Miller-Urey Device, are there any planets in particular that can't be terraformed or are you mostly refering to planets from other mods?

The MUD can terraform any planet except gas giants, planets that are already terran type, and planet types that are unrecognized by the mod. All planet types in Unknown Skies should be recognized at this time, as well as some other types from other mods.

Running into a crash with an Astropolis:

Code
194045 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at data.campaign.econ.industries.Astropolis_Station.buildingFinished(Astropolis_Station.java:193)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.BaseIndustry.finishBuildingOrUpgrading(BaseIndustry.java:477)
at data.campaign.econ.industries.Astropolis_Station.finishBuildingOrUpgrading(Astropolis_Station.java:57)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.BaseIndustry.advance(BaseIndustry.java:375)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.Market.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.Economy.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

A few points that are relevant:
  • This is the third station at that planet
  • This is the 12th construction on that planet.
  • The planet has been renamed (possibly while this was under construction)
  • This is my first planet (started with it using Nex)
  • This was a hostile system until I booted out all the competing factions. This is the first completed station since then (90% sure)
  • There was another Astropolis completed the day before in another system, but I have tested the save and removing that from the build queue does not solve the problem. 
  • Deleting this Astropolis from the queue does stop the crash.

I have a copy of the save file and a mod list (with version numbers) if you want to test yourself. I have a way forwards, and all I lose is the build time, so no big deal, but I figured I would bring it up in case it is a systemic problem.

I took a look and I'm not sure what the cause of this problem might be, but I have a few ideas. Can you upload your save and mod list so I can do some testing? Thank you and sorry about the bug!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
Post by: LucusLoC on January 07, 2020, 03:30:12 PM
PM sent
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
Post by: boggled on January 07, 2020, 04:26:57 PM
PM sent

Bug fixed! It was a station construction bug though, so players without that mod installed don't need to update anything.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
Post by: LucusLoC on January 07, 2020, 08:07:54 PM
Sweet, I will check for an update in a bit, thanks very much.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.0)
Post by: Uhlang on January 12, 2020, 04:14:19 PM
First Ismara and Ithaca, now Xuthus... Penelope's Star system just keeps getting better and better.
Some might say that this mod makes it too good and essentially eliminates the need to explore for a home, but personally, I'm glad to have a nice place I can default to.

By the way, does the Atmosphere Adjuster remove pollution? I mean, if it can turn a toxic hellhole into a pristine paradise, it should be able to clean up a little smog, too. Though, I would understand if you think that the hazard from pollution comes not from the air, but whatever's on or below the surface.

Oh, and congrats on 3.0 and getting rid of the ghost planets.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.0)
Post by: SaiWave on January 12, 2020, 09:47:39 PM
So another planet type not supported.
Crystalline planet from Hazard Mining Incorporated (HMI) mod
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.0)
Post by: boggled on January 13, 2020, 02:43:02 PM
First Ismara and Ithaca, now Xuthus... Penelope's Star system just keeps getting better and better.
Some might say that this mod makes it too good and essentially eliminates the need to explore for a home, but personally, I'm glad to have a nice place I can default to.

By the way, does the Atmosphere Adjuster remove pollution? I mean, if it can turn a toxic hellhole into a pristine paradise, it should be able to clean up a little smog, too. Though, I would understand if you think that the hazard from pollution comes not from the air, but whatever's on or below the surface.

Oh, and congrats on 3.0 and getting rid of the ghost planets.

The atmosphere adjuster does not remove pollution. The description of pollution indicates the planet is contaminated with dioxins and radioactive particles. This is much more serious than some smog and I don't think it could be remedied so easily. However, if someone with more scientific knowledge than me wants to comment on this I will defer to them.

So another planet type not supported.
Crystalline planet from Hazard Mining Incorporated (HMI) mod

I will add support for this planet type shortly. Thank you for letting me know about this!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.0)
Post by: Uhlang on January 13, 2020, 04:27:44 PM
I'm sure that a structure this potent could deal with most standard air pollution, but radioactive waste is a whole different beast, so yeah, I guess it makes sense that it can't fix it.

Also, I think my Adjuster ate my Pristine Nanoforge when it uninstalled itself. Couldn't find it in the storage or anywhere else.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.0)
Post by: boggled on January 13, 2020, 04:56:06 PM
I'm sure that a structure this potent could deal with most standard air pollution, but radioactive waste is a whole different beast, so yeah, I guess it makes sense that it can't fix it.

Also, I think my Adjuster ate my Pristine Nanoforge when it uninstalled itself. Couldn't find it in the storage or anywhere else.

Huh. If this is happening I know how to fix it so it will be taken care of in the next patch. Thanks for reporting this!

If you want to correct this immediately, you can use the console command below to add a pristine nanoforge to your inventory:
Code
addspecial pristine_nanoforge
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.0)
Post by: Sixhair on January 13, 2020, 05:28:29 PM
Dont understand how to build a drone control nexus on orbital station.
Understand you need supplies and fuel, but how do you use ship hulls?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.0)
Post by: boggled on January 13, 2020, 05:39:26 PM
Dont understand how to build a drone control nexus on orbital station.
Understand you need supplies and fuel, but how do you use ship hulls?

Supplies, fuel and ship hulls are the commodity demand of the industry once you build it. To build it, you only need credits.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.0)
Post by: Sixhair on January 13, 2020, 05:47:42 PM
For the life of me, I cant find where the "Build Drone Control Nexus" is
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.0)
Post by: Uhlang on January 13, 2020, 05:51:28 PM
If you want to correct this immediately, you can use the console command below to add a pristine nanoforge to your inventory:
Code
addspecial pristine_nanoforge
That's exactly what I did right after getting the bug.
Good luck fixing it!
For the life of me, I cant find where the "Build Drone Control Nexus" is
You sure you don't have Orbital Stations mixed up with station markets?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.0)
Post by: Sixhair on January 13, 2020, 07:34:35 PM
Yes, I have an orbital station around my Arid planet, and land on it as the explanation suggests. Don't know where to go from there though
Ok maybe im dumb, but after 5 hours, I still cant find it. I have orbital stations around 2 desert planets + solar shades and still stuck.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.0)
Post by: Uhlang on January 14, 2020, 03:04:39 AM
Yes, I have an orbital station around my Arid planet, and land on it as the explanation suggests. Don't know where to go from there though
Ok maybe im dumb, but after 5 hours, I still cant find it. I have orbital stations around 2 desert planets + solar shades and still stuck.
It's not Orbital Stations you need, but station markets, i.e. non-planet colonies such as mining stations, siphon stations, astropoli, or orbital habitats.
Get this other mod by the creator of this one (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=17094.0) and construct any one of those in the system. You should be able to build the Drone Control Nexus on them.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.0)
Post by: NephilimNexus on January 14, 2020, 03:32:35 AM
Maybe I'm just bad at reading directions, but how exactly do we use Ismara's Sling?

Does it work automatically or do I need to push more buttons?  How does it work?  Does it turn desert into arid or arid into terran?  How long does it take to work?  How do I know/chose which planets it targets? 

It seems like a terrific tool by its description - in theory, I could use in in lieu of finding several terraformer modules if I've got one ice planet and a bunch of deserts in the same system.  I just don't know how to actually do it, however.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.0)
Post by: Uhlang on January 14, 2020, 04:01:47 AM
1. Build a sling on a water/ice planet.
2. Build shades on an arid/desert planet in the same system.
3. Wait 2 cycles for the arid/desert planet to become terran. You can mouse over the shades in the arid/desert planet to see how much time there's left.
4. (Optional but recommended) Uninstall the sling once all the arid/desert planets in the system are terraformed. It won't affect the planets.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.0)
Post by: Sixhair on January 14, 2020, 08:13:51 AM
Maybe I'm just bad at reading directions, but how exactly do we use Ismara's Sling?

Does it work automatically or do I need to push more buttons?  How does it work?  Does it turn desert into arid or arid into terran?  How long does it take to work?  How do I know/chose which planets it targets? 

It seems like a terrific tool by its description - in theory, I could use in in lieu of finding several terraformer modules if I've got one ice planet and a bunch of deserts in the same system.  I just don't know how to actually do it, however.

Alright, thanks! All up and running now
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.0)
Post by: boggled on January 14, 2020, 02:24:58 PM
1. Build a sling on a water/ice planet.
2. Build shades on an arid/desert planet in the same system.
3. Wait 2 cycles for the arid/desert planet to become terran. You can mouse over the shades in the arid/desert planet to see how much time there's left.
4. (Optional but recommended) Uninstall the sling once all the arid/desert planets in the system are terraformed. It won't affect the planets.

This is correct. Just to clarify, the sling does nothing by itself. You have to have arid/desert planets in the system with shades to benefit. You'll receive an intel notification when terraforming has begun on the arid/desert planets and another one if it stops for any reason.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.1)
Post by: KroganElite on January 15, 2020, 01:33:11 AM
So what happens if planet 1 is cryovolcanic and you have Ismara's sling to help terraform planet 2 from desert to terran but then terraform planet 1 into terran as well? Does planet 2 turn back into desert since planet 1 is no longer valid type for Ismara's sling?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.1)
Post by: Malleator on January 15, 2020, 06:05:49 AM
Hello, looking to get easy access to the Miller-Urey device.
It's not showing up in any lists from the console commands mod, any ideas?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.1)
Post by: boggled on January 15, 2020, 02:28:57 PM
So what happens if planet 1 is cryovolcanic and you have Ismara's sling to help terraform planet 2 from desert to terran but then terraform planet 1 into terran as well? Does planet 2 turn back into desert since planet 1 is no longer valid type for Ismara's sling?

In this case the Ismara's Sling should be grandfathered in on the terran planet and still function normally. I've never tested this scenario though so perhaps it could be bugged if you experienced different behavior.

Once an arid/desert planet is terraformed to terran, it will not deterraform due to losing access to water from Ismara's Sling or a Drone Control Nexus. It will only deterraform if you remove the stellar shades.

Hello, looking to get easy access to the Miller-Urey device.
It's not showing up in any lists from the console commands mod, any ideas?

It's listed as euteck for console command purposes. This is because it was previously named something else, but if I changed the item ID it would break backwards compatibility.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.1)
Post by: DeansOnToast on January 15, 2020, 05:35:35 PM
Question, how do you add atmosphere to the planet? is it the atmosphere adjuster or does that strictly work for toxic planets?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.1)
Post by: arknok on January 15, 2020, 10:17:44 PM
hello
   So love your work. I was going to do something similar, but having trouble figuring out how the code works. a couple of things:

The initiate recall button when pressed in hyper space causes a crash to desktop(station mod)

The terrorforming mod does not support fringe defense Syndicate world types

http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=12243.0

Can you support this mod? I would like to use it in conjugation with your mod.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.1)
Post by: Fantastic Chimni on January 15, 2020, 11:12:37 PM
Any chance we can get support for SCY's SCY_Acid planets? Miller-Urey device does not function with them
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.1)
Post by: boggled on January 16, 2020, 03:08:17 PM
Question, how do you add atmosphere to the planet? is it the atmosphere adjuster or does that strictly work for toxic planets?

Depends on the type of planet. Some planets get an atmosphere as part of terraforming, others are non-terraformable. The atmosphere adjuster only deals with detoxifying atmospheres, not creating them.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.1)
Post by: NephilimNexus on January 16, 2020, 03:47:29 PM
Idea: Let the red planet shield act as a radiation shield, removing irradiated.  This can be a stand-alone transformation.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.1)
Post by: DeansOnToast on January 16, 2020, 04:15:26 PM
Question, how do you add atmosphere to the planet? is it the atmosphere adjuster or does that strictly work for toxic planets?

Depends on the type of planet. Some planets get an atmosphere as part of terraforming, others are non-terraformable. The atmosphere adjuster only deals with detoxifying atmospheres, not creating them.

thanks

Idea: Let the red planet shield act as a radiation shield, removing irradiated.  This can be a stand-alone transformation.

Also i love this idea still holds to the "realism"
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.2)
Post by: boggled on January 16, 2020, 04:26:28 PM
hello
   So love your work. I was going to do something similar, but having trouble figuring out how the code works. a couple of things:

The initiate recall button when pressed in hyper space causes a crash to desktop(station mod)

The terrorforming mod does not support fringe defense Syndicate world types

http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=12243.0

Can you support this mod? I would like to use it in conjugation with your mod.


Support for FDS has been added in my latest patch.

I took a look and my "Initiate Recall" ability from my gate construction mod should be disabled in hyperspace. Can you clarify which ability causes the crash, or post a screenshot so I can see the circumstances? Thank you!

Any chance we can get support for SCY's SCY_Acid planets? Miller-Urey device does not function with them

Support for SCY added. Please let me know if any of the planet classifications seem incorrect or if they are still undetected. Thank you!

Idea: Let the red planet shield act as a radiation shield, removing irradiated.  This can be a stand-alone transformation.

Overriding the planetary shield to provide radiation protection will introduce incompatibilities with other mods that make changes to it, so I want to avoid doing this. I will look into adding a separate structure using the planetary shield art assets to provide radiation protection. It might not be feasible, so no promises yet!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.1)
Post by: NephilimNexus on January 16, 2020, 05:27:34 PM
Hello, looking to get easy access to the Miller-Urey device.
It's not showing up in any lists from the console commands mod, any ideas?

additem eutek
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.2)
Post by: arknok on January 16, 2020, 06:02:51 PM
 if I knew how to upload images i could show you.  :(

If your on/in hyperspace the button is grayed out. However if your mouse cursor crosses the button it crashes to desktop.

btw i really like your mods. and thanks for adding support for fds!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.2)
Post by: Malleator on January 17, 2020, 04:21:12 PM
I have the Miller-Urey Device in my inventory, but I don't have any specials or anything to use it, and I've tried scrolled through them, but I've found nothing.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.2)
Post by: NephilimNexus on January 17, 2020, 05:41:16 PM
I have the Miller-Urey Device in my inventory, but I don't have any specials or anything to use it, and I've tried scrolled through them, but I've found nothing.

The activation button can only be used from space, in the overhead map.  It cannot be activated while landed on a planet. 
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.2)
Post by: Malleator on January 18, 2020, 06:12:13 AM
Yeah, I'm looking at what perhaps could better be described as a skill bar as opposed to specials, the bar with things like Distress Call. Still, I don't see anything. I suspect maybe the Hyperjump mod I have installed may be overriding it?

Currently I've added the euteck condition via the addcondition command to a planet to see what happens as a workaround.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.3)
Post by: boggled on January 18, 2020, 07:43:21 AM
Overriding the planetary shield to provide radiation protection will introduce incompatibilities with other mods that make changes to it, so I want to avoid doing this. I will look into adding a separate structure using the planetary shield art assets to provide radiation protection. It might not be feasible, so no promises yet!

I've taken a look and it seems you can only have a single planetary shield texture active at one time. If I implement a radiation shield, it will be incompatible with the existing planetary shield or any other mods that make use of the shield texture feature. I don't have a good sprite to create a radiation shield entity, and even if I did it might create too much clutter around planets with stellar reflectors and orbital stations.

if I knew how to upload images i could show you.  :(

If your on/in hyperspace the button is grayed out. However if your mouse cursor crosses the button it crashes to desktop.

btw i really like your mods. and thanks for adding support for fds!

I've figured out what's causing the crash and I'll update my gate construction mod soon to fix it. Thank you for letting me know about this, and I'm glad you're enjoying my mods!

Yeah, I'm looking at what perhaps could better be described as a skill bar as opposed to specials, the bar with things like Distress Call. Still, I don't see anything. I suspect maybe the Hyperjump mod I have installed may be overriding it?

Currently I've added the euteck condition via the addcondition command to a planet to see what happens as a workaround.

Your skill bar has a little button that says "lock" near it in the button right corner. Make sure that button is deactivated, then right click on any ability in your skill bar (ex. transponder enable/disable, or any other one). You will see a menu pop up with all your skills. Mouse over them until you see the "Active Miller-Urey Device" ability and then click it to add it to your bar. Now you can use it!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.3)
Post by: DifficultyTweak on January 18, 2020, 08:36:22 AM
Any chance of this working with Unknown Skies somewhere down the line?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.3)
Post by: boggled on January 18, 2020, 08:46:09 AM
Any chance of this working with Unknown Skies somewhere down the line?

Unknown Skies is already supported. Have you experienced any issues with US?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.3)
Post by: DifficultyTweak on January 18, 2020, 08:52:12 AM
Any chance of this working with Unknown Skies somewhere down the line?

Unknown Skies is already supported. Have you experienced any issues with US?
Oh, ***, I thought it wasn't. Nevermind, lmfao
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.3)
Post by: Malaise on January 18, 2020, 10:03:59 AM
What happens if you use terraforming device to restore Mairaath? Will I become Mayasura hero?:p
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.3)
Post by: boggled on January 18, 2020, 10:58:01 AM
What happens if you use terraforming device to restore Mairaath? Will I become Mayasura hero?:p


Not until you rebuild the three astropoli! I wonder who might have created a mod that allows that?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.3)
Post by: DifficultyTweak on January 19, 2020, 10:58:20 PM
Any chance of this working with Unknown Skies somewhere down the line?

Unknown Skies is already supported. Have you experienced any issues with US?
Actually, after having played with the mod for a bit, why are rocky ice worlds disqualified from using ismara's sling?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.3)
Post by: boggled on January 20, 2020, 03:09:25 AM
Any chance of this working with Unknown Skies somewhere down the line?

Unknown Skies is already supported. Have you experienced any issues with US?
Actually, after having played with the mod for a bit, why are rocky ice worlds disqualified from using ismara's sling?

To create an ocean on another planet, you need an immense amount of water-ice. The three planet types Ismara's Sling can be build on (frozen, cryovolcanic and water) have a large portion of their mass composed of water. Rocky ice planets and the rest of the planet types do not. For example, the water on Earth is only .05% of Earth's mass, despite the fact that Earth is largely covered in oceans.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.3)
Post by: mora on January 20, 2020, 06:17:48 PM
Found a small bug where Spaceports aren't considered functional when it's upgrading, preventing you from creating stellar mirrors/shades.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.3)
Post by: Donahue on January 21, 2020, 02:18:40 AM
It seems I need to keep the mirrors in place permanently after the terraforming is completed but I can remove the drone nexus in another body.  This is how it supposed to be?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.3)
Post by: SarenSoran on January 21, 2020, 01:08:16 PM
so i have a question
does it break saves if i update from 2.4 to the current update?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.3)
Post by: boggled on January 21, 2020, 02:23:47 PM
Found a small bug where Spaceports aren't considered functional when it's upgrading, preventing you from creating stellar mirrors/shades.

Yup, that's a bug. I will issue a fix in the next patch. Thanks for letting me know about this!

It seems I need to keep the mirrors in place permanently after the terraforming is completed but I can remove the drone nexus in another body.  This is how it supposed to be?

Yes. Once the water is on the planet, it will stay there forever (in most cases, stellar wind strips atmosphere so slowly that it's not relevant in human timescales).

so i have a question
does it break saves if i update from 2.4 to the current update?

It does not break saves, but it also doesn't retroactively fix ghost planets or apply changes to old content. You could make a backup of the old 2.4 version before updating if you're concerned about your save.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.3)
Post by: SarenSoran on January 21, 2020, 05:12:57 PM
thx for the quick reply mate, gonna do that
and i had no terraforming done yet, so i shouldn't have any ghost planets, neat
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.3)
Post by: Kiith on January 22, 2020, 05:27:21 AM
How does Ismara's Sling work? I've a sector with a colonised Cryovolcanic planet, with two uncolonized volcanic planets and a burnt world in it as well. Does it do anything here? And if so, do I need to build something on those other worlds?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.3)
Post by: Chewzie on January 22, 2020, 05:46:05 AM
Unknown Skies is already supported. Have you experienced any issues with US?
I have Ismara's Sling on cryovolcanic planet in the system with a "desertic" one and when its construction was completed there wasn't any popups or info windows about terraforming.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.3)
Post by: MacguffinLove on January 22, 2020, 06:27:15 AM
As far as i can tell, the Sling is broken ATM, i've made several saves with and without nex and other mods and nothing triggers.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.3)
Post by: Serenitis on January 22, 2020, 11:38:28 AM
Not 100% sure, but I think you need to be terraforming a planet with mirrors or shades before the sling will have any effect. (aka the sling on it's own does nothing.)
So if you build the appropriate terraforming thing for your planet it might work.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.3)
Post by: boggled on January 22, 2020, 02:33:42 PM
How does Ismara's Sling work? I've a sector with a colonised Cryovolcanic planet, with two uncolonized volcanic planets and a burnt world in it as well. Does it do anything here? And if so, do I need to build something on those other worlds?

Ismara's Sling can only help terraform worlds classified as desert/arid. It would do nothing in that system.

Unknown Skies is already supported. Have you experienced any issues with US?
I have Ismara's Sling on cryovolcanic planet in the system with a "desertic" one and when its construction was completed there wasn't any popups or info windows about terraforming.

The Ismara's Sling doesn't terraform worlds by itself! You need to build stellar reflectors around the world you want to terraform, then the sling will be able to send water to complete the terraforming process.

As far as i can tell, the Sling is broken ATM, i've made several saves with and without nex and other mods and nothing triggers.

Ismara's Sling does nothing by itself! You need to build it in a system with desert/arid planets that have stellar reflectors in orbit!

Not 100% sure, but I think you need to be terraforming a planet with mirrors or shades before the sling will have any effect. (aka the sling on it's own does nothing.)
So if you build the appropriate terraforming thing for your planet it might work.

Exactly!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.3)
Post by: Chewzie on January 23, 2020, 05:49:22 AM
I have Ismara's Sling on cryovolcanic planet in the system with a "desertic" one and when its construction was completed there wasn't any popups or info windows about terraforming.
The Ismara's Sling doesn't terraform worlds by itself! You need to build stellar reflectors around the world you want to terraform, then the sling will be able to send water to complete the terraforming process.
But the planet in question doesn't have any lighting or temperature conditions!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.3)
Post by: Doomrider on January 23, 2020, 07:36:06 AM
I recently found a Terran world with "Pollution" condition, but for some reason Atmosphere Adjuster could not remove it. Could you add that to the next update?

Also there's no way to remove Inimical Biosphere from a Terran or non-habitable world (yes, it can spawn on non-habitable, I have a crioolcanic planet with killer biosphere in my sector somehow).
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.3)
Post by: boggled on January 23, 2020, 02:27:56 PM
I have Ismara's Sling on cryovolcanic planet in the system with a "desertic" one and when its construction was completed there wasn't any popups or info windows about terraforming.
The Ismara's Sling doesn't terraform worlds by itself! You need to build stellar reflectors around the world you want to terraform, then the sling will be able to send water to complete the terraforming process.
But the planet in question doesn't have any lighting or temperature conditions!

Stellar shades should be buildable on any desert/arid planet regardless of the conditions. Please let me know if this is not the case.

I recently found a Terran world with "Pollution" condition, but for some reason Atmosphere Adjuster could not remove it. Could you add that to the next update?

Also there's no way to remove Inimical Biosphere from a Terran or non-habitable world (yes, it can spawn on non-habitable, I have a crioolcanic planet with killer biosphere in my sector somehow).

Atmosphere adjuster does not remove the pollution condition as it involves soil/groundwater and radiological contamination. Perhaps I will add a setting to enable removal of pollution though due to the number of requests for this feature.

Terraforming a planet should always remove inimical biosphere. If it doesn't, please let me know as that is a bug. The only planet type that it cannot be removed from is a terran world, as you cannot terraform a planet that is already a terran type. If procedurally generated terran worlds can have an inimical biosphere, please let me know and I will add a means of removing it. Thank you!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.3)
Post by: Doomrider on January 23, 2020, 03:21:42 PM
If procedurally generated terran worlds can have an inimical biosphere, please let me know and I will add a means of removing it. Thank you!
Well at least with Nexrelin generation they can. I'm letting you know then.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.3)
Post by: Darkspire91 on January 23, 2020, 08:26:27 PM
Attempting to open the add industry/structure window in orbital stations with no planets (Star Fortress Requiem, Prism Freeport, etc) crashes the game and gives me this:

211333 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at kentington.diyplanets.TerraformIndustryNeedsArtifact.isAvailableToBuild(TerraformIndustryNeedsArtifact.java:245)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.marketinfo.IndustryPickerDialog.updateTable(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.marketinfo.IndustryPickerDialog.createUI(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.marketinfo.IndustryPickerDialog.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.marketinfo.IndustryListPanel.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newnew.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.O0Oo.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

Since it mentions terraforming, I assume it's this mod that's causing the issue.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.3)
Post by: Donahue on January 24, 2020, 05:23:52 AM
Attempting to open the add industry/structure window in orbital stations with no planets (Star Fortress Requiem, Prism Freeport, etc) crashes the game and gives me this:

211333 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at kentington.diyplanets.TerraformIndustryNeedsArtifact.isAvailableToBuild(TerraformIndustryNeedsArtifact.java:245)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.marketinfo.IndustryPickerDialog.updateTable(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.marketinfo.IndustryPickerDialog.createUI(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.marketinfo.IndustryPickerDialog.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.marketinfo.IndustryListPanel.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newnew.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.O0Oo.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

Since it mentions terraforming, I assume it's this mod that's causing the issue.

Not quite, if you would read "kentington.diyplanets.TerraformIndustryNeedsArtifact.isAvailableToBuild(TerraformIndustryNeedsArtifact.java:245)"
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.3)
Post by: Serenitis on January 24, 2020, 07:38:16 AM
If procedurally generated terran worlds can have an inimical biosphere, please let me know and I will add a means of removing it. Thank you!
Terran planets (hab4) do not have anything in the vanilla procgen to give them the inimical condition.
They have literally nothing - blank entries, with no by-type overrides.
I'm fairly sure it's not possible in vanilla.
Unknown Skies doesn't alter the vanilla condition gens at all, so it's not that either.
No idea if Nexerelin does or not as I don't use it.

Interestingly inimical can appear almost anywhere else....

Spoiler
Hab3 worlds, Terran E, Ocean, Arid and Tundra theres a 1:10 chance of getting it.
Jungle is also a hab3, but is 'special' because it gets a 1:2 chance due to it's override.

Hab2 Desert worlds, and Hab1 Barren Deserts both get a 1:100 chance.
Frozen/Ice worlds also get 1:100, as do Cryovolcanics.

Gas giants get a 1:500 chance.
Volcanic, Barren and Toxic all get 1:1000.
Irradiated worlds get a 1:10000 chance of getting it.
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.3)
Post by: Darkspire91 on January 24, 2020, 11:46:16 AM
Not quite, if you would read "kentington.diyplanets.TerraformIndustryNeedsArtifact.isAvailableToBuild(TerraformIndustryNeedsArtifact.java:245)"

Huh, I thought I got rid of that. Good eye.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.3)
Post by: boggled on January 24, 2020, 02:17:46 PM
If procedurally generated terran worlds can have an inimical biosphere, please let me know and I will add a means of removing it. Thank you!
Terran planets (hab4) do not have anything in the vanilla procgen to give them the inimical condition.
They have literally nothing - blank entries, with no by-type overrides.
I'm fairly sure it's not possible in vanilla.
Unknown Skies doesn't alter the vanilla condition gens at all, so it's not that either.
No idea if Nexerelin does or not as I don't use it.

Interestingly inimical can appear almost anywhere else....

Spoiler
Hab3 worlds, Terran E, Ocean, Arid and Tundra theres a 1:10 chance of getting it.
Jungle is also a hab3, but is 'special' because it gets a 1:2 chance due to it's override.

Hab2 Desert worlds, and Hab1 Barren Deserts both get a 1:100 chance.
Frozen/Ice worlds also get 1:100, as do Cryovolcanics.

Gas giants get a 1:500 chance.
Volcanic, Barren and Toxic all get 1:1000.
Irradiated worlds get a 1:10000 chance of getting it.
[close]

This is good to know. Perhaps I will enable the MUD for use on terran planets, that way it can be used to remove inimical biosphere from terran eccentric planets or from terran planets created with inimical biosphere by other mods. Thanks again for your help Serenitis!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.3)
Post by: IonDragonX on January 26, 2020, 01:46:19 PM
The Ismara's Sling doesn't terraform worlds by itself! You need to build stellar reflectors around the world you want to terraform, then the sling will be able to send water to complete the terraforming process.
Is it possible to have the Sling grayed out (disabled) until the reflectors are built?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: Sayak on January 26, 2020, 05:48:47 PM
I have found out that Miller-Urey are quite easy to get... almost too easy for what they do.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: Donahue on January 27, 2020, 05:20:42 AM
I have found out that Miller-Urey are quite easy to get... almost too easy for what they do.

I beg to differ.  If you don't like to use it, then sell it.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: sqrt(-1) on January 27, 2020, 09:30:25 AM
I beg to differ.  If you don't like to use it, then sell it.
Challenges for achieving progression are the core of fun gameplay for the vast majority of individuals.
It is quite a poor suggestion to pretende the existence of a challenge.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: Doomrider on January 27, 2020, 01:44:40 PM
I have found out that Miller-Urey are quite easy to get... almost too easy for what they do.

I've surveyed 2/3 of the Sector and haven't found a single one. Guess some of my mods (probably Nex or Vayra) srcew up with this mod's adding new item to a loot list.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: boggled on January 27, 2020, 02:43:52 PM
I have found out that Miller-Urey are quite easy to get... almost too easy for what they do.

I've surveyed 2/3 of the Sector and haven't found a single one. Guess some of my mods (probably Nex or Vayra) srcew up with this mod's adding new item to a loot list.

I beg to differ.  If you don't like to use it, then sell it.
Challenges for achieving progression are the core of fun gameplay for the vast majority of individuals.
It is quite a poor suggestion to pretende the existence of a challenge.

Domain motherships have a 100% chance to drop one and survey ships have a 35% chance to drop one. There's only a handful in the Sector so they shouldn't be all that plentiful unless you have a mod that changes drop rates or increases the number of domain ships. Vanilla Sector generation will only provide the player with about 4-6 of them depending on how lucky the player is.

The Ismara's Sling doesn't terraform worlds by itself! You need to build stellar reflectors around the world you want to terraform, then the sling will be able to send water to complete the terraforming process.
Is it possible to have the Sling grayed out (disabled) until the reflectors are built?

This seems like a great idea. I will implement this in the next patch!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: e on January 27, 2020, 02:47:24 PM
Quick question:

If you apply a MUD on Volturn, or a planet with a similarly special condition, does it lose that special condition after the terraforming is done?

Thanks.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: boggled on January 27, 2020, 04:52:13 PM
Quick question:

If you apply a MUD on Volturn, or a planet with a similarly special condition, does it lose that special condition after the terraforming is done?

Thanks.

No. Terraforming does not remove Volturian lobsters, the cryogenics facility on Nomios, or any other special conditions or structures. Also, Ismara's Sling will be grandfathered in if you happen to build it before using the MUD.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: e on January 27, 2020, 06:41:46 PM
Quick question:

If you apply a MUD on Volturn, or a planet with a similarly special condition, does it lose that special condition after the terraforming is done?

Thanks.

No. Terraforming does not remove Volturian lobsters, the cryogenics facility on Nomios, or any other special conditions or structures. Also, Ismara's Sling will be grandfathered in if you happen to build it before using the MUD.

Alright, thanks! :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: Doomrider on January 28, 2020, 12:20:51 PM
Domain motherships have a 100% chance to drop one and survey ships have a 35% chance to drop one. There's only a handful in the Sector so they shouldn't be all that plentiful unless you have a mod that changes drop rates or increases the number of domain ships. Vanilla Sector generation will only provide the player with about 4-6 of them depending on how lucky the player is.

I had salavaged few dozens of survey ships and hadn't found a single one. Again I higly suspect it's incompatibility with some other mod.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: e on January 28, 2020, 12:29:38 PM
Domain motherships have a 100% chance to drop one and survey ships have a 35% chance to drop one. There's only a handful in the Sector so they shouldn't be all that plentiful unless you have a mod that changes drop rates or increases the number of domain ships. Vanilla Sector generation will only provide the player with about 4-6 of them depending on how lucky the player is.

I had salavaged few dozens of survey ships and hadn't found a single one. Again I higly suspect it's incompatibility with some other mod.

Take down a mothership and you'll know for certain if it's bad luck or incompatibility, cuz it's a 100% from those.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: Doomrider on January 28, 2020, 02:54:10 PM
Domain motherships have a 100% chance to drop one and survey ships have a 35% chance to drop one. There's only a handful in the Sector so they shouldn't be all that plentiful unless you have a mod that changes drop rates or increases the number of domain ships. Vanilla Sector generation will only provide the player with about 4-6 of them depending on how lucky the player is.

I had salavaged few dozens of survey ships and hadn't found a single one. Again I higly suspect it's incompatibility with some other mod.

Take down a mothership and you'll know for certain if it's bad luck or incompatibility, cuz it's a 100% from those.
OK, i just surveyed the remaining quarter of my sector, found two motherships and seven survey ships, and now I have 10 MUDs. Turns out it was crazy bad luck.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: e on January 30, 2020, 12:07:17 PM
I'd like to make a suggestion:

I was thinking about making the world affected by the MUD have a random chance of either being a Terran or Terran Eccentric (in vanilla) or archipelago or continental (with unknown skies) when the terraforming process is complete, which are relatively "earth like" worlds.

The effects on conditions and whatnot would remain the same, it's just the world type what i suggest would be randomized. I'm suggesting this for variety sake and to add an element of randomness to the device.

Thanks! :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: boggled on January 30, 2020, 04:22:34 PM
I'd like to make a suggestion:

I was thinking about making the world affected by the MUD have a random chance of either being a Terran or Terran Eccentric (in vanilla) or archipelago or continental (with unknown skies) when the terraforming process is complete, which are relatively "earth like" worlds.

The effects on conditions and whatnot would remain the same, it's just the world type what i suggest would be randomized. I'm suggesting this for variety sake and to add an element of randomness to the device.

Thanks! :)

I've considered this, but I'm concerned that the mod is already very complex and adding more complexity in the form of random planet transformations is probably not a good idea right now.

Something I can look at is using different textures/graphics/etc randomly so that all planets have a slightly different appearance after terraforming. The problem is that I would have to steal the textures from other mods because I'm not much of an artist. I have no problem copying code from other mods, but stealing their artwork is probably not OK. Maybe I can find some way to autogenerate planet textures with something like DeepDream.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: e on January 30, 2020, 04:31:43 PM
I've considered this, but I'm concerned that the mod is already very complex and adding more complexity in the form of random planet transformations is probably not a good idea right now.

Something I can look at is using different textures/graphics/etc randomly so that all planets have a slightly different appearance after terraforming. The problem is that I would have to steal the textures from other mods because I'm not much of an artist. I have no problem copying code from other mods, but stealing their artwork is probably not OK. Maybe I can find some way to autogenerate planet textures with something like DeepDream.

Alrighty, i'm sure something will pop up eventually that will be to your liking.  ;D

thx for the response!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: BringerofBabies on January 30, 2020, 05:58:16 PM
What type of textures are used for planets? If it is a standard texture wrapped around a sphere, then perhaps these might be of use (all some form of Creative Commons license):
https://opengameart.org/content/planets-terran
https://opengameart.org/content/terraformed-mars-map
https://opengameart.org/content/planetary-textures-2048x1024
https://opengameart.org/content/far-colony-epsilon-eridani-planets-4k-surface-maps-complete-and-fixed
https://opengameart.org/content/10-terrestrial-planet-wrapping-textures

Additionally, that uploader of that last one says that they made the textures using their free tool: http://www.texturesforplanets.com/
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: NephilimNexus on January 31, 2020, 04:33:38 AM
Question: Domain Survey ships are 35% and Domain Motherships are 100%, but what about Remnant ships?  Any Eutek drops from big Remnant fleets or their stations?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: Serenitis on January 31, 2020, 06:27:03 AM
Something I can look at is using different textures/graphics/etc randomly so that all planets have a slightly different appearance after terraforming. The problem is that I would have to steal the textures from other mods because I'm not much of an artist. I have no problem copying code from other mods, but stealing their artwork is probably not OK. Maybe I can find some way to autogenerate planet textures with something like DeepDream.
I've got a fair amount of textures I've collected over the years (some of which are already in Unknown Skies), if you have something specific in mind for what you want I might be able to provide.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: e on January 31, 2020, 10:37:29 AM
Question: Domain Survey ships are 35% and Domain Motherships are 100%, but what about Remnant ships?  Any Eutek drops from big Remnant fleets or their stations?

No. The percentages mentioned are the only ones, the idea of the MUD is that its limited resource.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: boggled on January 31, 2020, 03:04:31 PM
What type of textures are used for planets? If it is a standard texture wrapped around a sphere, then perhaps these might be of use (all some form of Creative Commons license):
https://opengameart.org/content/planets-terran
https://opengameart.org/content/terraformed-mars-map
https://opengameart.org/content/planetary-textures-2048x1024
https://opengameart.org/content/far-colony-epsilon-eridani-planets-4k-surface-maps-complete-and-fixed
https://opengameart.org/content/10-terrestrial-planet-wrapping-textures

Additionally, that uploader of that last one says that they made the textures using their free tool: http://www.texturesforplanets.com/

I tried out several of the terran textures you linked in-game and unfortunately the art style does not seem to mesh with existing starsector planet textures in my opinion. Maybe they can be photoshopped into something that resembles the vanilla art, but I don't have the skills to do that.

Something I can look at is using different textures/graphics/etc randomly so that all planets have a slightly different appearance after terraforming. The problem is that I would have to steal the textures from other mods because I'm not much of an artist. I have no problem copying code from other mods, but stealing their artwork is probably not OK. Maybe I can find some way to autogenerate planet textures with something like DeepDream.
I've got a fair amount of textures I've collected over the years (some of which are already in Unknown Skies), if you have something specific in mind for what you want I might be able to provide.

Most of the US planet textures are ideal in terms of art style and quality in my opinion. I'm looking for planet textures similar to the vanilla terran textures and US continental texture that I can randomly use for terraformed planets instead of the vanilla terran and terran-eccentric textures. The goal would be to add some variety and uniqueness to the appearance of terraformed planets in terms of the distribution/shape of the continents and climate regions (desert/forest/mountain/ice/urban etc.) on the planet. Right now all terraformed planets use the same texture, and that becomes obvious to the player if they have more than one terraformed planet.

If you have unused textures from developing US, I would be happy to take a look. What was the process of creating the textures? Ideally I could create some photoshop/GIMP batch job that could be applied to textures from the websites BringerOfBabies suggested to create a large number of unique terran textures without much work.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: NephilimNexus on February 01, 2020, 02:40:02 AM
No. The percentages mentioned are the only ones, the idea of the MUD is that its limited resource.

 :'(
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: Serenitis on February 01, 2020, 04:57:33 AM
Sent a link to a useful resource.
I feel it's proper to mention that I'm not a developer of Unknown Skies. I'm merely a contributor.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: boggled on February 01, 2020, 05:35:10 PM
Sent a link to a useful resource.
I feel it's proper to mention that I'm not a developer of Unknown Skies. I'm merely a contributor.

I took a look at the textures you PM'ed me and many of them are very good, but the terran ones seem to be of the same sort I looked at previously from links BringerOfBabies posted.

I tried some of the neural network artwork generators by taking the BringerOfBabies terran textures and "restyling" them using the terran.jpg from vanilla starsector. The output is very good, but there are lots of little artifacts in the generated images and the top and bottom of the image aren't warped correctly the way the vanilla textures are. Unfortunately it seems like I'm stuck with the two vanilla textures for now.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: BringerofBabies on February 02, 2020, 11:22:59 AM
I think the biggest difference between the Starsector style and the examples I linked (including the tool generated ones) is that the Starsector terran planets have big, sharply detailed topographical style ridges/mountains. I think that style is probably not strictly accurate to what one would see from orbit, but more implying what a normal map would do without actually implementing normal maps. The generation tool allows for decal type things (craters/canyons, etc) but I don't think that it would handle the massive mountain ranges well. It probably would do fine for the non-habitable planets that we don't care about though.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: MacguffinLove on February 06, 2020, 04:34:16 AM
The Ismara's Sling doesn't terraform worlds by itself! You need to build stellar reflectors around the world you want to terraform, then the sling will be able to send water to complete the terraforming process.
Is it possible to have the Sling grayed out (disabled) until the reflectors are built?

This seems like a great idea. I will implement this in the next patch!
[/quote]

An easier way to deal with this that would be less bug prone might be to edit the slings description to mention the requirements, currently the text for the sling is a bit too vague, i think it should mention the mirror/shades by name so people know for sure that they need to trigger the "terraforming" condition in order for the sling to take effect, currently it gives the impression that the sling is an alternative to other methods.

Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: NephilimNexus on February 06, 2020, 12:46:43 PM
Speaking of the sling, maybe we could see a "water transport network" industry to haul excess of water off water planets and onto desert/arid planets to terraform both of them the same time?  Balance them out, in essence?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: boggled on February 06, 2020, 03:59:22 PM
The Ismara's Sling doesn't terraform worlds by itself! You need to build stellar reflectors around the world you want to terraform, then the sling will be able to send water to complete the terraforming process.
Is it possible to have the Sling grayed out (disabled) until the reflectors are built?

This seems like a great idea. I will implement this in the next patch!

An easier way to deal with this that would be less bug prone might be to edit the slings description to mention the requirements, currently the text for the sling is a bit too vague, i think it should mention the mirror/shades by name so people know for sure that they need to trigger the "terraforming" condition in order for the sling to take effect, currently it gives the impression that the sling is an alternative to other methods.


[/quote]

I've made substantial updates to the Ismara's Sling and Drone Control Nexus tooltips but I haven't pushed the update yet because that and greying out the image are the only new features. I don't want to annoy people with minor updates like that.

Speaking of the sling, maybe we could see a "water transport network" industry to haul excess of water off water planets and onto desert/arid planets to terraform both of them the same time?  Balance them out, in essence?

If you do the math regarding the amount of water on various planet types, the numbers already don't work for Ismara's Sling. Water worlds can have 5-10% of their mass composed of water, and moving that much mass out of the gravity well to terraform the planet is just not feasible. The only lore-compatible solution I can think of would be to place giant gates on the ocean floor to warp the water elsewhere, but gate technology has been lost in the Sector.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: NephilimNexus on February 06, 2020, 04:49:01 PM
Water worlds can have 5-10% of their mass composed of water, and moving that much mass out of the gravity well to terraform the planet is just not feasible.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/gQzNu1yw1q_ANy3boOGkQZJTgP4urv3fejM0M_PU0qNqFhRPz0v0jt1Y8ZGP4AqqucXtCchuZAMpa1HKJ2QQpHmq0N5aLTLYeLfKYVIDGIFvYw9Q_OO9d0MehV7dfbLvVUlMMA)





Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: RoquetheRogue on February 10, 2020, 01:03:07 PM
Hello boggled!

Can the military police also be used for Stability, security?

Been really wanting to try this mod with DIY planets, but they very obviously overlap, DIY has more depth, but your mod looks more finished and more visually pleasing with visual representations of the terraformers in game (Stellar Shades), without the need to go hunting for domain-era terraforming nano-forgers (this is cool but causes some bugs), better, and also does not flood the loot tables with new objects, they look cool, but you'll always end up with more than necessary, competition is good, but in this case I see both you and Kentington should definitely collab, I love the dynamic changes in DIY;
Terraforming can also gradually change a planet's class, with visual updates as appropriate. Once a planet progresses past "desert," it will generate farmland if none existed, and each step will improve that farmland.

And deeper functionalities, removing Military viruses, subjugation or integration corps for the decivilized planets that has good mechanics of increasing growth and the like, it would be great if terraformers could be converted into useful buildings once their projects are finished, instead of just being shut down.

Terraforming is extremely costly, and resource intensive, you'll need milions of creds, which obviously makes sense, however, it could have so much more, if you increased the chance of having farmlands, but every time the planet changes it's class, has a chance to roll for a special status, such as gaining the ability to produce unique commodity items, similar to volturn grabs, but different, like unique Liquids, oils, plastics, Gases, crystals, unknown elements, drugs like Azure Dust, Psy-Fungus, SPICE , Resources exclusive to that planet, chances to uncover secrets previously not found by surveys, having a rare chance to create "beautiful vistas status" that increases the overall beauty of that planet, increasing tourism and growth, gaining access to a unique Resort building that improves accessibility and adds a large income from tourism

Feature to encounter unique xenofauna, such as animals to be sold as pets or studied, or put in a Xenofauna Zoo for accessibility and stability, when you add that ability to seed planets with crabs and krills, also be able to seed it with unique xenos encountered by exploring

Thank you for your time and your hard work on this mod, it is one of the best around.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: boggled on February 10, 2020, 03:53:50 PM
Can the military police also be used for Stability, security?

Space stations and military bases already provide stability to colonies. The military police are focused on the uncivilized frontiers rather than maintaining order in the built-up city centers.

Been really wanting to try this mod with DIY planets, but they very obviously overlap, DIY has more depth, but your mod looks more finished and more visually pleasing with visual representations of the terraformers in game (Stellar Shades), without the need to go hunting for domain-era terraforming nano-forgers (this is cool but causes some bugs), better, and also does not flood the loot tables with new objects, they look cool, but you'll always end up with more than necessary, competition is good, but in this case I see both you and Kentington should definitely collab, I love the dynamic changes in DIY;
Terraforming can also gradually change a planet's class, with visual updates as appropriate. Once a planet progresses past "desert," it will generate farmland if none existed, and each step will improve that farmland.

I suggested a collaboration with Kentington but he didn't seem interested. I see now that our mods don't compete against each other as much as I thought they would because we have very different visions and they appeal to different types of players.

And deeper functionalities, removing Military viruses, subjugation or integration corps for the decivilized planets that has good mechanics of increasing growth and the like, it would be great if terraformers could be converted into useful buildings once their projects are finished, instead of just being shut down.

Military viruses are from Unknown Skies I believe. There are probably very few people who will ever encounter a planet with a military virus that they want to terraform, so I would probably be better served working on other features that more people will use.

Terraforming is extremely costly, and resource intensive, you'll need milions of creds, which obviously makes sense, however, it could have so much more, if you increased the chance of having farmlands, but every time the planet changes it's class, has a chance to roll for a special status, such as gaining the ability to produce unique commodity items, similar to volturn grabs, but different, like unique Liquids, oils, plastics, Gases, crystals, unknown elements, drugs like Azure Dust, Psy-Fungus, SPICE , Resources exclusive to that planet, chances to uncover secrets previously not found by surveys, having a rare chance to create "beautiful vistas status" that increases the overall beauty of that planet, increasing tourism and growth, gaining access to a unique Resort building that improves accessibility and adds a large income from tourism

There are several existing mods which add conditions/features like that, and if I implement them too it will clash with those other mods (Unknown Skies being one of them).

Feature to encounter unique xenofauna, such as animals to be sold as pets or studied, or put in a Xenofauna Zoo for accessibility and stability, when you add that ability to seed planets with crabs and krills, also be able to seed it with unique xenos encountered by exploring

I'm working on this right now. Stay tuned...
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: RoquetheRogue on February 10, 2020, 04:04:36 PM

Terraforming is extremely costly, and resource intensive, you'll need milions of creds, which obviously makes sense, however, it could have so much more, if you increased the chance of having farmlands, but every time the planet changes it's class, has a chance to roll for a special status, such as gaining the ability to produce unique commodity items, similar to volturn grabs, but different, like unique Liquids, oils, plastics, Gases, crystals, unknown elements, drugs like Azure Dust, Psy-Fungus, SPICE , Resources exclusive to that planet, chances to uncover secrets previously not found by surveys, having a rare chance to create "beautiful vistas status" that increases the overall beauty of that planet, increasing tourism and growth, gaining access to a unique Resort building that improves accessibility and adds a large income from tourism
There are several existing mods which add conditions/features like that, and if I implement them too it will clash with those other mods (Unknown Skies being one of them).

Hmmm, what do you mean? when I terraform, say, Garnir, to a Water World or something, Unknown Skies will add a Water World Status to it?
the Vista Status could be something fully terraformed worlds could acquire after they fully terraform to a Terran, as a way to help recuperate some of the investments in the terraforming process the new Resort building chain could add a boost to income, growth and accessibility, and I have yet to see new resources types, such as new drugs and other commodities from that mod,  which other mods you are refering that change world generation? NEX? US?

Thanks again for your time boggled! I'll stay tuned to your mods, play test when needed!  ;)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: boggled on February 10, 2020, 05:43:14 PM

Terraforming is extremely costly, and resource intensive, you'll need milions of creds, which obviously makes sense, however, it could have so much more, if you increased the chance of having farmlands, but every time the planet changes it's class, has a chance to roll for a special status, such as gaining the ability to produce unique commodity items, similar to volturn grabs, but different, like unique Liquids, oils, plastics, Gases, crystals, unknown elements, drugs like Azure Dust, Psy-Fungus, SPICE , Resources exclusive to that planet, chances to uncover secrets previously not found by surveys, having a rare chance to create "beautiful vistas status" that increases the overall beauty of that planet, increasing tourism and growth, gaining access to a unique Resort building that improves accessibility and adds a large income from tourism
There are several existing mods which add conditions/features like that, and if I implement them too it will clash with those other mods (Unknown Skies being one of them).

Hmmm, what do you mean? when I terraform, say, Garnir, to a Water World or something, Unknown Skies will add a Water World Status to it?
the Vista Status could be something fully terraformed worlds could acquire after they fully terraform to a Terran, as a way to help recuperate some of the investments in the terraforming process the new Resort building chain could add a boost to income, growth and accessibility, and I have yet to see new resources types, such as new drugs and other commodities from that mod,  which other mods you are refering that change world generation? NEX? US?

Thanks again for your time boggled! I'll stay tuned to your mods, play test when needed!  ;)

Unknown Skies adds various fungi/drug related conditions to certain worlds during sector generation. There are some other mods which add buildings that improve accessibility and income. There is a limit of 12 structure/industry slots per colony so I don't want to add any more structures if I can avoid it because I want to leave space for buildings from other mods.

My mod handles adding/removing the "Water World" condition during terraforming, as well as farmland, organics, and various other conditions from the vanilla game.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: e on February 10, 2020, 06:23:34 PM
I'd like to suggest the addition of "Mild Climate" which normally is a very rare condition to find on planets that have been terraformed, i was thinking of the following:

A planet that's been terraformed into an "earth-like" variation will have a chance of having mild climate if it follows these conditions:
1.- The can only start on planets with no negative conditions. (even most of those that cannot be removed by the mod)
2.- There has to be a stellar mirrors/shade set in place.
3.- Can only be done on earth-like type of planets.

After these conditions are satisfied, the process would start and the mirror/shade would have a counter of 3-4 cycles with no issues on the mirror/shades, after which the climate of the planet will be completely tamed and stabilized giving place for the "mild climate" buff to appear.

If for some reason, afterwards, the mirror/shade is damaged by raid or whatnot, the "mild climate" condition will be lost immediately, and the process will have to start from scratch.

I'm basing my suggestion on the following aspects for sake of balance:
1.- The MUD by itself is not enough to get you a mild climate.
2.- Using the mirror/shade for it instead of adding new buildings for the sake of clutter.
3.- Making the process of getting Mild Climate a long term reward, or at least longer term than most procedures on the mod.
4.- By taking some of the more permanent conditions into account (like gravity alterations or tectonic instability) it means that not every single planet will be elegible for the process.

------------------------------------

Hope this helps a little bit, if anything.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: boggled on February 11, 2020, 02:51:57 PM
I'd like to suggest the addition of "Mild Climate" which normally is a very rare condition to find on planets that have been terraformed, i was thinking of the following:

A planet that's been terraformed into an "earth-like" variation will have a chance of having mild climate if it follows these conditions:
1.- The can only start on planets with no negative conditions. (even most of those that cannot be removed by the mod)
2.- There has to be a stellar mirrors/shade set in place.
3.- Can only be done on earth-like type of planets.

After these conditions are satisfied, the process would start and the mirror/shade would have a counter of 3-4 cycles with no issues on the mirror/shades, after which the climate of the planet will be completely tamed and stabilized giving place for the "mild climate" buff to appear.

If for some reason, afterwards, the mirror/shade is damaged by raid or whatnot, the "mild climate" condition will be lost immediately, and the process will have to start from scratch.

I'm basing my suggestion on the following aspects for sake of balance:
1.- The MUD by itself is not enough to get you a mild climate.
2.- Using the mirror/shade for it instead of adding new buildings for the sake of clutter.
3.- Making the process of getting Mild Climate a long term reward, or at least longer term than most procedures on the mod.
4.- By taking some of the more permanent conditions into account (like gravity alterations or tectonic instability) it means that not every single planet will be elegible for the process.

------------------------------------

Hope this helps a little bit, if anything.

I want to find a way to work the mild climate condition into terraforming, but the problem with this suggestion is that players who haven't read this post will have no idea why some terraformed planets have a mild climate and others don't. If I include information about it in the tooltips, it will create a wall of text that people won't read, and if I don't people will be confused and think it's a bug.

It may be for the best not to implement mild climate at all so that the rare few planets that do have it remain special.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: e on February 11, 2020, 03:00:41 PM
I'd like to suggest the addition of "Mild Climate" which normally is a very rare condition to find on planets that have been terraformed, i was thinking of the following:

A planet that's been terraformed into an "earth-like" variation will have a chance of having mild climate if it follows these conditions:
1.- The can only start on planets with no negative conditions. (even most of those that cannot be removed by the mod)
2.- There has to be a stellar mirrors/shade set in place.
3.- Can only be done on earth-like type of planets.

After these conditions are satisfied, the process would start and the mirror/shade would have a counter of 3-4 cycles with no issues on the mirror/shades, after which the climate of the planet will be completely tamed and stabilized giving place for the "mild climate" buff to appear.

If for some reason, afterwards, the mirror/shade is damaged by raid or whatnot, the "mild climate" condition will be lost immediately, and the process will have to start from scratch.

I'm basing my suggestion on the following aspects for sake of balance:
1.- The MUD by itself is not enough to get you a mild climate.
2.- Using the mirror/shade for it instead of adding new buildings for the sake of clutter.
3.- Making the process of getting Mild Climate a long term reward, or at least longer term than most procedures on the mod.
4.- By taking some of the more permanent conditions into account (like gravity alterations or tectonic instability) it means that not every single planet will be elegible for the process.

------------------------------------

Hope this helps a little bit, if anything.

I want to find a way to work the mild climate condition into terraforming, but the problem with this suggestion is that players who haven't read this post will have no idea why some terraformed planets have a mild climate and others don't. If I include information about it in the tooltips, it will create a wall of text that people won't read, and if I don't people will be confused and think it's a bug.

It may be for the best not to implement mild climate at all so that the rare few planets that do have it remain special.

Sounds fair, oh well, it was worth the shot. :P
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: NephilimNexus on February 11, 2020, 05:02:12 PM
So the "mild climate" thing got me thinking... what if there were different grades of MUDs?  With different effects and different drop rates?

Examples:

Gamma MUD - Does not terraform, but when applied to an already inhabitable world increases crop yield and organics by one level, until both are maxed.  If world is not inhabitable (read: barren, volcanic, gas, etc) it can remove pollution, biosphere or toxic atmosphere.  Very common, even with just probes (50% chance) and always found with tougher units (100% survey and mothership). 

Epsilon MUD - As above but removes one random hazard from the planet (pollution, biosphere, toxic, thin atmosphere or turn no atmosphere into thin atmosphere, radiation, tectonic activity, or reduce severe tectonic to regular) if no farming is possible or if farming & organics are already maxed out.  Drop rate 25% for probe or 75% for survey ship.

Delta MUD - As above plus terraforms one level towards perfect terran (similar to how Langley's terraforming works).  Subsequent applications on the same planet continues this path, and once it becomes habitable (desert, arid, tundra) it adds a level of organics and farming until maxed or planet becomes fully terran, whichever comes first.  10% for probe, 35% for survey, 100% for mothership.  If applied to an already terran world with no hazards it adds mild climate.

Beta MUD - As above but adds two levels of organics and farming and removes no atmosphere, thin, biosphere, pollution or toxic, if needed, all in the same pass.  Rare, only 20% from survey ship and 75% from mothership.  If applied to an already terran world it maxes out farming & organics and adds mild climate.

Alpha MUD - As above but maxes out organics and farming, removes all atmospheric hazards in one pass (thin, no atmosphere, pollution, biosphere and toxic).  Very rare, 5% from survey ship and 50% from mothership.  Can also be used to add mild climate to an already terran world, but that's kind of waste since a Beta MUD can do the same thing already.

Prime MUD - As above maxes and removes all hazards (including radiation, tectonics, etc).  Also changes gravity to normal and makes climate mild.  Can be used on gas giants but does not terraform, instead simply removes all hazards (habitability goes to 100%).  25% chance from mothership only.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: e on February 11, 2020, 07:31:27 PM
Prime MUD - As above maxes and removes all hazards (including radiation, tectonics, etc).  Also changes gravity to normal and makes climate mild.  Can be used on gas giants but does not terraform, instead simply removes all hazards (habitability goes to 100%).  25% chance from mothership only.

I would actually only vote for this one for the sake of not having way too many new items, sort of a "improved" or "perfected" mud or "Murray Uriel's Device" or whatever.

Since in vanilla conditions there can only be a single mothership i would say it would have to be a 100% drop from motherships only since, in theory, you could only get a SINGLE one if this suggestion were to be taken. (i don't remember if it's the case in vanilla having only one mothership, if it's not the case then nevermind what i just said.)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: boggled on February 12, 2020, 03:42:54 PM
Prime MUD - As above maxes and removes all hazards (including radiation, tectonics, etc).  Also changes gravity to normal and makes climate mild.  Can be used on gas giants but does not terraform, instead simply removes all hazards (habitability goes to 100%).  25% chance from mothership only.

I would actually only vote for this one for the sake of not having way too many new items, sort of a "improved" or "perfected" mud or "Murray Uriel's Device" or whatever.

Since in vanilla conditions there can only be a single mothership i would say it would have to be a 100% drop from motherships only since, in theory, you could only get a SINGLE one if this suggestion were to be taken. (i don't remember if it's the case in vanilla having only one mothership, if it's not the case then nevermind what i just said.)

Vanilla has two motherships with default sector generation settings. There's also a 35% chance to drop a MUD from survey ships, of which there are something like 6-10 in a default sector (see the post where Serenitis breaks this down).

So the "mild climate" thing got me thinking... what if there were different grades of MUDs?  With different effects and different drop rates?

Examples:

Gamma MUD - Does not terraform, but when applied to an already inhabitable world increases crop yield and organics by one level, until both are maxed.  If world is not inhabitable (read: barren, volcanic, gas, etc) it can remove pollution, biosphere or toxic atmosphere.  Very common, even with just probes (50% chance) and always found with tougher units (100% survey and mothership). 

Epsilon MUD - As above but removes one random hazard from the planet (pollution, biosphere, toxic, thin atmosphere or turn no atmosphere into thin atmosphere, radiation, tectonic activity, or reduce severe tectonic to regular) if no farming is possible or if farming & organics are already maxed out.  Drop rate 25% for probe or 75% for survey ship.

Delta MUD - As above plus terraforms one level towards perfect terran (similar to how Langley's terraforming works).  Subsequent applications on the same planet continues this path, and once it becomes habitable (desert, arid, tundra) it adds a level of organics and farming until maxed or planet becomes fully terran, whichever comes first.  10% for probe, 35% for survey, 100% for mothership.  If applied to an already terran world with no hazards it adds mild climate.

Beta MUD - As above but adds two levels of organics and farming and removes no atmosphere, thin, biosphere, pollution or toxic, if needed, all in the same pass.  Rare, only 20% from survey ship and 75% from mothership.  If applied to an already terran world it maxes out farming & organics and adds mild climate.

Alpha MUD - As above but maxes out organics and farming, removes all atmospheric hazards in one pass (thin, no atmosphere, pollution, biosphere and toxic).  Very rare, 5% from survey ship and 50% from mothership.  Can also be used to add mild climate to an already terran world, but that's kind of waste since a Beta MUD can do the same thing already.

Prime MUD - As above maxes and removes all hazards (including radiation, tectonics, etc).  Also changes gravity to normal and makes climate mild.  Can be used on gas giants but does not terraform, instead simply removes all hazards (habitability goes to 100%).  25% chance from mothership only.

I definitely don't want to add a whole bunch of items that do almost the same thing. Having just the single version of the MUD that currently exists results in confusion related to drop rates and functionality. Can you imagine if there were 5-10 different versions? How would I inform the player about the subtle differences between MUD types? A wall of text in the tooltip?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: NephilimNexus on February 12, 2020, 04:38:42 PM
We already have three types of AI core, so what's the real issue?  Maybe six is too many, but surely three wouldn't be.  Condense it down to normal, lesser and greater.

Lesser - just removes hazards on lifeless worlds, or adds green to others.
Normal - as now.
Greater - terraforms and removes hazards at the same time.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: boggled on February 12, 2020, 04:56:42 PM
We already have three types of AI core, so what's the real issue?  Maybe six is too many, but surely three wouldn't be.  Condense it down to normal, lesser and greater.

Lesser - just removes hazards on lifeless worlds, or adds green to others.
Normal - as now.
Greater - terraforms and removes hazards at the same time.

Even if I ignore the complexity issues with increasing the variants of the MUD from one to three, what does having these different versions of the MUD really add to the gameplay experience? Would the mod be substantially better and more fun to use with three versions of the MUD instead of one? Contrast that with adding a story quest to unlock adding Volturnian lobsters to a planet.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: Coconutsales on February 13, 2020, 06:24:21 PM
3 suggestions to note in this post (Barren blank-slate terraforming, expanded permanent structures, and detrimental terraforming options)

1) Barren Terraforming from a blank slate
Hauling gas from toxic / gas giants to barren worlds alongside a drone station to pull mass to the planets (if small, for the atmosphere to take hold)

Toxic planets are slower and cheaper than importing atmosphere from gas giants, but the gas giant method is more expensive and quicker. Perhaps hauling from toxic planets requires at least a corrupted nanoforge? (Pristine makes the process a little faster, just like in terraforming a toxic planet)

2) Unknown Skies adds a few interesting oddities (artificial floating continents on gas giants to improve accessibility and hazard rating, space elevators with improve accessibility and growth, and crashed terraforming drones on desert / arid / dusty / thin atmos planets which give some basic farmland, and improves growth and improves hazard rating [ALL OF WHICH have diminishing enhancements as population grows]) which gave me the inspiration for this one.

Basically the ability to build upgrade-able* structures that help improve certain conditions that terraforming alone can't exactly improve. Another idea (different from the Unknown Skies recommendations) include greenhouses > biodome for smallscale farming buffs

3) Detrimental terraforming, to destroy markets or ruin habitability of your enemies planets. Perhaps magnetic plasma-slinging from the system's stars (like the water mass-drivers for positive terraforming) to turn planets molten, planet-cracking drones to cause tectonic stress, or dirty bombs to cause radiation.


* tiered like orbital stations, perhaps even quality levels ie Low Tech > High Tech if you want, for fancier additions
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: McMuster on February 14, 2020, 08:04:42 AM
Quote
Ismara's Sling
Giant mass drivers that can launch water from cryovolcanic, frozen and water planets to desert planets that need more water to be terraformed.
The name comes from Ismara orbiting Penelope's Star in the vanilla sector where Eridani-Utopia built these to terraform the desert planet Ithaca.

Suggestion: Change this to something more general, like "Mass Driver Array" as the description of the Penelope's star project implies that this sort of operation was business as usual for Domain era terraforming conglomerates.

If you're capable of building a mass driver complex (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_driver) it doesn't make sense that you wouldn't be able to get more general use out of it, an elctromagnetic sling is an electromagnetic sling. You'd be able to launch fluids, gas and cargo with it, or at least figure out how to build one that can.

This means the building could be used for getting rid of the dense atmosphere market condition (https://starsector.fandom.com/wiki/Market_conditions) on worlds and removing no/thin atmosphere conditions on other worlds. This is a proposed method of terraforming venus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_of_Venus#Direct_removal_of_atmosphere) and mars simultaneously in our own solar system.

Making this the add/subtract atmosphere building would also help differentiate it from the drone nexus. Adding a accessibility buff to the building would also set it apart and reflect the cargo/commerce applications (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_driver#On_Earth) of mass drivers

This makes it so the mod has systems in place to adjust the 3 pillars of terraforming. Atmosphere, Water, Temperature. Which means you could link the buildings to the changing market conditions (hot, extreme hot, cold, water covered surface, etc) and have the planet type change if the conditions have been met long enough rather than what buildings have been used. After all, shading a desert world wouldn't make it into a wet terran world, it'd just make it a cooler desert world.

This would also give you more flexibility and allow the introduction of chance in the terraforming process.

Start - Extremely hot, no-atmosphere barren world: Shade->Hot, Mass Driver->thin Atmosphere->Normal Atmosphere, Drone Nexus->Water
Possible Results - Desert World(75%), Terran Eccentric(20%), Terran(5%) (could include unknown skies worlds)
Possible chance-based conditions added upon planet-type change: Habitable, Mild Climate, Inimical Biosphere, Extreme Weather, Water Covered Surface, Toxic Atmosphere, Pollution. (could include unknown skies conditions)
Terraforming is playing god, and the mod sort of implies that we're just slapping old schematics together without much consideration or research done beforehand so unanticipated consequences would make for nice flavor, reflect the massively complicated nature of terraforming and fit with the theme of the other terraformed planets in the sector (only a few turned out 100% nice), though negative effects would have to be balanced so that doing the projects are still a net gain for the habitability of the world.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: boggled on February 14, 2020, 03:26:00 PM
Quote
Ismara's Sling
Giant mass drivers that can launch water from cryovolcanic, frozen and water planets to desert planets that need more water to be terraformed.
The name comes from Ismara orbiting Penelope's Star in the vanilla sector where Eridani-Utopia built these to terraform the desert planet Ithaca.

Suggestion: Change this to something more general, like "Mass Driver Array" as the description of the Penelope's star project implies that this sort of operation was business as usual for Domain era terraforming conglomerates.

If you're capable of building a mass driver complex (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_driver) it doesn't make sense that you wouldn't be able to get more general use out of it, an elctromagnetic sling is an electromagnetic sling. You'd be able to launch fluids, gas and cargo with it, or at least figure out how to build one that can.

This means the building could be used for getting rid of the dense atmosphere market condition (https://starsector.fandom.com/wiki/Market_conditions) on worlds and removing no/thin atmosphere conditions on other worlds. This is a proposed method of terraforming venus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_of_Venus#Direct_removal_of_atmosphere) and mars simultaneously in our own solar system.

Making this the add/subtract atmosphere building would also help differentiate it from the drone nexus. Adding a accessibility buff to the building would also set it apart and reflect the cargo/commerce applications (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_driver#On_Earth) of mass drivers

This makes it so the mod has systems in place to adjust the 3 pillars of terraforming. Atmosphere, Water, Temperature. Which means you could link the buildings to the changing market conditions (hot, extreme hot, cold, water covered surface, etc) and have the planet type change if the conditions have been met long enough rather than what buildings have been used. After all, shading a desert world wouldn't make it into a wet terran world, it'd just make it a cooler desert world.

This would also give you more flexibility and allow the introduction of chance in the terraforming process.

Start - Extremely hot, no-atmosphere barren world: Shade->Hot, Mass Driver->thin Atmosphere->Normal Atmosphere, Drone Nexus->Water
Possible Results - Desert World(75%), Terran Eccentric(20%), Terran(5%) (could include unknown skies worlds)
Possible chance-based conditions added upon planet-type change: Habitable, Mild Climate, Inimical Biosphere, Extreme Weather, Water Covered Surface, Toxic Atmosphere, Pollution. (could include unknown skies conditions)
Terraforming is playing god, and the mod sort of implies that we're just slapping old schematics together without much consideration or research done beforehand so unanticipated consequences would make for nice flavor, reflect the massively complicated nature of terraforming and fit with the theme of the other terraformed planets in the sector (only a few turned out 100% nice), though negative effects would have to be balanced so that doing the projects are still a net gain for the habitability of the world.

I really like this method/system of terraforming and I want to implement something like it in the future. My main problem right now is the lack of planet textures - I can't show planets that are in the intermediate stages of terraforming. There's a game called Stars in Shadow that I looted some artwork from previously (because the artwork is so good), and the devs of that game say there's a big terraforming update coming that will include planets in an intermediate stage of terraforming. When they release that update, I'm going to try to swipe their planet textures and implement a system very similar to what you described above in my mod.

What I don't want to do is have random probabilities of the end result of terraforming. I'll have to find some way to incorporate multiple planet types as the "end goal" of terraforming.

If I do end up getting around to implementing the above system, I will change the name of Ismara's Sling.

3 suggestions to note in this post (Barren blank-slate terraforming, expanded permanent structures, and detrimental terraforming options)

1) Barren Terraforming from a blank slate
Hauling gas from toxic / gas giants to barren worlds alongside a drone station to pull mass to the planets (if small, for the atmosphere to take hold)

Toxic planets are slower and cheaper than importing atmosphere from gas giants, but the gas giant method is more expensive and quicker. Perhaps hauling from toxic planets requires at least a corrupted nanoforge? (Pristine makes the process a little faster, just like in terraforming a toxic planet)

2) Unknown Skies adds a few interesting oddities (artificial floating continents on gas giants to improve accessibility and hazard rating, space elevators with improve accessibility and growth, and crashed terraforming drones on desert / arid / dusty / thin atmos planets which give some basic farmland, and improves growth and improves hazard rating [ALL OF WHICH have diminishing enhancements as population grows]) which gave me the inspiration for this one.

Basically the ability to build upgrade-able* structures that help improve certain conditions that terraforming alone can't exactly improve. Another idea (different from the Unknown Skies recommendations) include greenhouses > biodome for smallscale farming buffs

3) Detrimental terraforming, to destroy markets or ruin habitability of your enemies planets. Perhaps magnetic plasma-slinging from the system's stars (like the water mass-drivers for positive terraforming) to turn planets molten, planet-cracking drones to cause tectonic stress, or dirty bombs to cause radiation.


* tiered like orbital stations, perhaps even quality levels ie Low Tech > High Tech if you want, for fancier additions

My comment above addresses your first point.

As far as crashed terraforming drones go, I don't want to just duplicate the functionality of the condition from US. Perhaps once I rework the terraforming system, I will change the MUD to be similar to the crashed terraforming drone condition: it will only effect a small portion of the planet.

Detrimental terraforming as a weapon against hostile factions seems difficult to implement properly, as if you have the large amount of resources necessary to detrimentally terraform a planet, why not just invade it and take it over? This feature sort of exists in the vanilla game as you can bombard planets to introduce pollution.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: Vind on February 15, 2020, 03:16:44 PM
Great mod. A little thing which is totally minor - after frozen world is terraformed to water world using stellar mirror industry list have farming instead of aquaculture.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: boggled on February 15, 2020, 03:39:59 PM
Great mod. A little thing which is totally minor - after frozen world is terraformed to water world using stellar mirror industry list have farming instead of aquaculture.

Yeah, this bug is back because of the new terraforming method. I don't know how to fix it permanently without the API additions coming in the next version of Starsector, but I will add something to help mitigate it in the next update of this mod. Sorry!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: e on February 17, 2020, 03:19:17 AM
I'd like to propose an (probably not very good) but straightforward solution to the MUD not having a variety as it currently stands, at least while the whole "different textures" thing comes into a reality:

Spoiler
The idea is to have several versions of the MUD, yes, i know this has been said before, and yes, i know the issues this can bring up, but i think it can work better if it's done in the following way:

Make a MUD for each "earth-like" type of planet which are named accordingly, so for example, our current MUD would be renamed as "Miller Urey Device (Terran)" to imply on the title that it makes a terraforms into a terran planet without the need of a giant wall of text. Similarly we could have the followings:

-Miller Urey Device (Terran)
-Miller Urey Device (Eccentric)
-Miller Urey Device (Jungle)
-Miller Urey Device (Tundra)
With Unknown Skies:
-Miller Urey Device (Archipelago)
-Miller Urey Device (Continental)

Notes:
-Drop rate and spawning mechanics of these items would be the same, but they would become a "pool" rather than a singular item in which you can get a random MUD type from survey/motherships.
-MUDs of different types can be used to any other planet types even if they are "earth-like" already, so if you want to turn your terran planet into a continental just for the looks, you could do that. (process would still take the same amount of time as it usually is.)
-From the titles alone you can infer quickly what you're gonna get from your MUD, so the issue of a wall of text in the description or people not getting what it does shouldn't be a problem.
-Each MUD would hold a significantly greater value in a playthrough since there are several types and would make getting the type of planet you want a greater quest.

The issue this tries to address, to an extent, the lack of variety on perfectly terraformed planets, while the MUD isn't the only terraforming tool and while also doing the texture replacement would be a better deal in the future, this could be used in the meantime if said method seems like a long shot.

Also i don't know the process of modding, so in the end this might actually be a way more convoluted or harder to program solution than it might seem, in which case then nevermind.
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: boggled on February 17, 2020, 11:54:26 AM
I'd like to propose an (probably not very good) but straightforward solution to the MUD not having a variety as it currently stands, at least while the whole "different textures" thing comes into a reality:

Spoiler
The idea is to have several versions of the MUD, yes, i know this has been said before, and yes, i know the issues this can bring up, but i think it can work better if it's done in the following way:

Make a MUD for each "earth-like" type of planet which are named accordingly, so for example, our current MUD would be renamed as "Miller Urey Device (Terran)" to imply on the title that it makes a terraforms into a terran planet without the need of a giant wall of text. Similarly we could have the followings:

-Miller Urey Device (Terran)
-Miller Urey Device (Eccentric)
-Miller Urey Device (Jungle)
-Miller Urey Device (Tundra)
With Unknown Skies:
-Miller Urey Device (Archipelago)
-Miller Urey Device (Continental)

Notes:
-Drop rate and spawning mechanics of these items would be the same, but they would become a "pool" rather than a singular item in which you can get a random MUD type from survey/motherships.
-MUDs of different types can be used to any other planet types even if they are "earth-like" already, so if you want to turn your terran planet into a continental just for the looks, you could do that. (process would still take the same amount of time as it usually is.)
-From the titles alone you can infer quickly what you're gonna get from your MUD, so the issue of a wall of text in the description or people not getting what it does shouldn't be a problem.
-Each MUD would hold a significantly greater value in a playthrough since there are several types and would make getting the type of planet you want a greater quest.

The issue this tries to address, to an extent, the lack of variety on perfectly terraformed planets, while the MUD isn't the only terraforming tool and while also doing the texture replacement would be a better deal in the future, this could be used in the meantime if said method seems like a long shot.

Also i don't know the process of modding, so in the end this might actually be a way more convoluted or harder to program solution than it might seem, in which case then nevermind.
[close]

This is a reasonable suggestion. One problem though is that the tundra, jungle, desert, etc. MUDs will just be used as a stepping stone to turn otherwise unterraformable worlds into terran worlds anyway by using stellar reflectors after using the MUD.

Depending on what happens in the future with the rework of terraforming, MUDs that turn planets into different types might become a thing.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: e on February 17, 2020, 12:13:46 PM
This is a reasonable suggestion. One problem though is that the tundra, jungle, desert, etc. MUDs will just be used as a stepping stone to turn otherwise unterraformable worlds into terran worlds anyway by using stellar reflectors after using the MUD.

They are only set as examples for the sake of the suggestion, i did know that tundra gets affected by the mirrors, but i forgot that jungles changed also with shades.

If you think that having a jungle and tundra is redundant cuz they terraform via mirror/shade then they can be ruled out of the suggestion and focus on the more "end product" type of worlds, like eccentric and terran, also archipelago and continental with US.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: Mondaymonkey on February 20, 2020, 11:19:29 AM
As i understand, if installed on existed save it will work, but MUD won't be acquirable at all. And a quest is not ready yet.

Is it possible to add a minor chance to find MUD on a black market rotation? Certain planets, perhaps.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: boggled on February 20, 2020, 02:58:39 PM
As i understand, if installed on existed save it will work, but MUD won't be acquirable at all. And a quest is not ready yet.

Is it possible to add a minor chance to find MUD on a black market rotation? Certain planets, perhaps.

MUDs are acquirable if you install this mod in a save in progress. However, they only drop from Domain motherships and survey ships, so if you already destroyed all those ships then it can't be obtained without using the console. If you want to use the console to obtain some MUDs, the ID for the MUD is "euteck". Players typically receive about 4-6 MUDs for destroying all the Domain ships, so you could add that many using the console and I wouldn't consider that cheating.

I'm probably going to be reworking the MUD at a later date, and in the current state it's too powerful to make an unlimited number available for purchase at the black market.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: HopeFall on February 20, 2020, 11:39:50 PM
Question about some of this. I've been dying to alter the visuals of planets, and I'm wondering if this mod does that?

What I mean is, I see the implication that Frozen planets, for example, become Water worlds. The end goal being Terran.

The information seems a little limited. Are there ways to produce jungle/etc planets by not terra forming all the way? Which planets are viable for this?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: Mondaymonkey on February 21, 2020, 07:45:07 AM
Quote
if you already destroyed all those ships
YUP! ;D

Quote
If you want to use the console to obtain some MUDs, the ID for the MUD is "euteck". Players typically receive about 4-6 MUDs for destroying all the Domain ships, so you could add that many using the console and I wouldn't consider that cheating.

Well, thank you. However, request is no longer actual, as I was inspired by this and some other mods to begin a new game. Actually, there are several your mods in that modpack, so I doubling the thanks! Make a wide smile and continue.©  ;)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: Serenitis on February 21, 2020, 08:24:35 AM
This is a reasonable suggestion. One problem though is that the tundra, jungle, desert, etc. MUDs will just be used as a stepping stone to turn otherwise unterraformable worlds into terran worlds anyway by using stellar reflectors after using the MUD.

In that case, why have mirrors/shades do anything other than remove negative conditions on cat_3 and higher planet types? After all, all the 'habitable' planet types have the same overall potential regardless. The types are just cosmetic, it's the conditions that matter.

Then you can have the MUD(s) be the only way of changing it further, or to a specific type.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: boggled on February 21, 2020, 04:44:14 PM
Question about some of this. I've been dying to alter the visuals of planets, and I'm wondering if this mod does that?

What I mean is, I see the implication that Frozen planets, for example, become Water worlds. The end goal being Terran.

The information seems a little limited. Are there ways to produce jungle/etc planets by not terra forming all the way? Which planets are viable for this?

This mod alters the visuals of the planets when terraforming is complete. However, right now you cannot partially terraform planets to produce suboptimal planet types such as jungle or tundra. In the future, I hope to be able to implement terraforming based on temperature, water and atmospheric density that will allow the creation of whatever type of planet the player desires (even suboptimal types).

This is a reasonable suggestion. One problem though is that the tundra, jungle, desert, etc. MUDs will just be used as a stepping stone to turn otherwise unterraformable worlds into terran worlds anyway by using stellar reflectors after using the MUD.

In that case, why have mirrors/shades do anything other than remove negative conditions on cat_3 and higher planet types? After all, all the 'habitable' planet types have the same overall potential regardless. The types are just cosmetic, it's the conditions that matter.

Then you can have the MUD(s) be the only way of changing it further, or to a specific type.


This is certainly an option. I'm waiting to see if I can steal some textures from the upcoming Stars in Shadow terraforming update, and at that time I will revisit this and other ideas about how to rework the MUD.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: NephilimNexus on February 21, 2020, 05:38:29 PM
Is it possible to add a minor chance to find MUD on a black market rotation? Certain planets, perhaps.

I second this.  The things already have a high enough price tag to justify this, too.  It's not like pirates are big on starting new colonies, so to them finding a MUD would just be a big dollar sign floating over their heads - something to put up for sale so they can buy a new fleet.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: e on February 21, 2020, 10:44:27 PM
Is it possible to add a minor chance to find MUD on a black market rotation? Certain planets, perhaps.

I second this.  The things already have a high enough price tag to justify this, too.  It's not like pirates are big on starting new colonies, so to them finding a MUD would just be a big dollar sign floating over their heads - something to put up for sale so they can buy a new fleet.

I am against this for plenty of reasons:

1.- It would defeat the purpose of the MUD being an exclusive limited resource
2.- Pirates are morons, how in the world would they even know what the MUD is in the first place? If anything they would just discard it as scrap.
3.- Pirates have several colonies, even in vanilla starsector without mods, so the argument of "they are not too big on starting new colonies" is completely wrong, even if it was not the case, pirates are one of the two factions keen on constantly making bases outside core worlds. They are raiding bases, yes, but they are still colonies.

This is just to name a few reasons about why doing this would make absolutely zero sense from both a gameplay and a lore standpoint.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: boggled on February 22, 2020, 07:09:56 AM
Is it possible to add a minor chance to find MUD on a black market rotation? Certain planets, perhaps.

I second this.  The things already have a high enough price tag to justify this, too.  It's not like pirates are big on starting new colonies, so to them finding a MUD would just be a big dollar sign floating over their heads - something to put up for sale so they can buy a new fleet.

I am against this for plenty of reasons:

1.- It would defeat the purpose of the MUD being an exclusive limited resource
2.- Pirates are morons, how in the world would they even know what the MUD is in the first place? If anything they would just discard it as scrap.
3.- Pirates have several colonies, even in vanilla starsector without mods, so the argument of "they are not too big on starting new colonies" is completely wrong, even if it was not the case, pirates are one of the two factions keen on constantly making bases outside core worlds. They are raiding bases, yes, but they are still colonies.

This is just to name a few reasons about why doing this would make absolutely zero sense from both a gameplay and a lore standpoint.

The MUD already makes fairly little sense from a lore standpoint, which I hope to remedy in the future. I think the solution is to add a setting to enable MUDs appearing in the black market, that way people who want this feature can have it and those who don't can leave it disabled.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: e on February 22, 2020, 04:50:57 PM
The MUD already makes fairly little sense from a lore standpoint, which I hope to remedy in the future. I think the solution is to add a setting to enable MUDs appearing in the black market, that way people who want this feature can have it and those who don't can leave it disabled.

Yeah, that's probably the better solution. When i said that it would not make sense from a lore standpoint, i was mostly running a comparison with pirates an AI cores and how you are unable to hand those to them, giving the impression that they might not know (or care) what they are... Or how they don't even care about having a nanoforge (in vanilla) or how they probably are unable to comprehend what it is.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: NephilimNexus on February 23, 2020, 12:31:31 PM
1.- It would defeat the purpose of the MUD being an exclusive limited resource

That is a fair point, but keep in mind there is already another Boggled mod that allows players to fabricate their own AI cores.  It could be argued that "game enhancing" and "game breaking" can be just two points of view on the same thing.


2.- Pirates are morons, how in the world would they even know what the MUD is in the first place? If anything they would just discard it as scrap.

Yet they have battleships and unique hull designs that they apparently invented on their own.  I'll grant you that the typical grog-swilling scallywag is probably illiterate, but they couldn't exist as an operation if the people at top didn't have brains.


3.- Pirates have several colonies, even in vanilla starsector without mods, so the argument of "they are not too big on starting new colonies" is completely wrong, even if it was not the case, pirates are one of the two factions keen on constantly making bases outside core worlds. They are raiding bases, yes, but they are still colonies.

Allow me to be pedantic for a moment and reiterate that I said they weren't big on starting new colonies.  I said nothing about already existing ones.  Even in Nexerelin pirates dp not create new colonies.  They do not send out colony expeditions or claim new worlds.  Nor have I ever seen them launch an invasion fleet.  They do raids, that's it.


This is just to name a few reasons about why doing this would make absolutely zero sense from both a gameplay and a lore standpoint.

We can debate the gameplay angle, sure, but let's not bring lore into this too much - the entire mod is pretty lore breaking as it is, as almost all mods are.  And I'm OK with, the same way that I'm OK with Moff Gideon owning the Darksaber even after Disney declared the EU non-canon, because sometimes you just gotta let the fans have what they want.  Sometimes what people call "breaking lore" is what I call "adding to it."
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: e on February 23, 2020, 01:27:20 PM
1.- It would defeat the purpose of the MUD being an exclusive limited resource

That is a fair point, but keep in mind there is already another Boggled mod that allows players to fabricate their own AI cores.  It could be argued that "game enhancing" and "game breaking" can be just two points of view on the same thing.


2.- Pirates are morons, how in the world would they even know what the MUD is in the first place? If anything they would just discard it as scrap.

Yet they have battleships and unique hull designs that they apparently invented on their own.  I'll grant you that the typical grog-swilling scallywag is probably illiterate, but they couldn't exist as an operation if the people at top didn't have brains.


3.- Pirates have several colonies, even in vanilla starsector without mods, so the argument of "they are not too big on starting new colonies" is completely wrong, even if it was not the case, pirates are one of the two factions keen on constantly making bases outside core worlds. They are raiding bases, yes, but they are still colonies.

Allow me to be pedantic for a moment and reiterate that I said they weren't big on starting new colonies.  I said nothing about already existing ones.  Even in Nexerelin pirates dp not create new colonies.  They do not send out colony expeditions or claim new worlds.  Nor have I ever seen them launch an invasion fleet.  They do raids, that's it.


This is just to name a few reasons about why doing this would make absolutely zero sense from both a gameplay and a lore standpoint.

We can debate the gameplay angle, sure, but let's not bring lore into this too much - the entire mod is pretty lore breaking as it is, as almost all mods are.  And I'm OK with, the same way that I'm OK with Moff Gideon owning the Darksaber even after Disney declared the EU non-canon, because sometimes you just gotta let the fans have what they want.  Sometimes what people call "breaking lore" is what I call "adding to it."

We could keep discussing this, but i think the solution that boggled presented settles a satisfactory result for both sides. :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: NephilimNexus on February 26, 2020, 01:58:14 AM
Agreed.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: NephilimNexus on February 27, 2020, 04:00:45 PM
I know that the idea of fixing things like tectonic activity and gravity conditions has been discussed already and the general argument against it has been that it would be lore-breaking (in a mod that is already lore-breaking).  I can understand how these two things can be considered overpowering, especially with the already existing terraforming functions in place.

However I feel that they can and should be done but with drawbacks to balance them out.  I'll start with the easier of the two, high/low gravity.  I believe that this can be fixed with the same sort of "mystery box" technology that MUDs already use.  To implement it into the game, however, I propose the following conditions:



Moving on to curing tectonic activity, this too can be done.  First, context - high tectonic activity is usually linked to high levels of internal planetary heat just below the lithosphere, which is accurately represented in game by the fact that it most often appears on volcanic worlds.  Solving this would require finding a way to vent massive amounts of geothermal energy into space until the core of the planet has cooled off enough to stabilize its tectonic plates.


So again, could it be done?  Yes.  Is it worth it?  That's debatable, or rather yes it is but it is going to be a very heavy, very intense and long term investment that will make the colony not only highly vulnerable but most likely completely useless until it is complete.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: e on February 27, 2020, 05:52:50 PM
I know that the idea of fixing things like tectonic activity and gravity conditions has been discussed already and the general argument against it has been that it would be lore-breaking (in a mod that is already lore-breaking).  I can understand how these two things can be considered overpowering, especially with the already existing terraforming functions in place.

I also second the idea of having a measure to deal with High/Low Gravity and (Extreme) Tectonic Activity, since they are incredibly common hazards.

As for the suggestions or measures on how to do it, i can't really provide a way or critic the mentioned method.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: TaylorItaly on February 27, 2020, 08:55:06 PM
Absolut Off-Topic , but must be said.

@ NephilimNexus :

You wrote that Pirates in Nex don`t do invasions ; but that is a setting you can switch.

In my actual game i allow them invasions and they do it alot , just as Side-Note.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: NephilimNexus on February 28, 2020, 10:29:54 AM
I did not know this - I shall have to try it!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: boggled on February 28, 2020, 04:56:07 PM
I know that the idea of fixing things like tectonic activity and gravity conditions has been discussed already and the general argument against it has been that it would be lore-breaking (in a mod that is already lore-breaking).  I can understand how these two things can be considered overpowering, especially with the already existing terraforming functions in place.

However I feel that they can and should be done but with drawbacks to balance them out.  I'll start with the easier of the two, high/low gravity.  I believe that this can be fixed with the same sort of "mystery box" technology that MUDs already use.  To implement it into the game, however, I propose the following conditions:

  • A rare blueprint must be found, similar (if not identical) to the Defense Shield quest.  Meaning having to face a massive enemy drone fleet to even unlock it.
  • The facility would be very expensive to build and, while cheap in credits to maintain, require hyperspace fuel to remain functional.  If the fuel supply is interrupted (pirates, raids, etc) then it stops working for that month and the gravity penalty returns for the duration as well.
  • It should require an industry slot.  This is the biggie.  Not just a structure, of which you get a max of 12, but an actual industry, which you get 4 of at most.  For this reason one must be very sure that it is actually worth it in the long run, especially considering that is a permanent facility.  Tear it down and the bad gravity penalty comes right back.


Moving on to curing tectonic activity, this too can be done.  First, context - high tectonic activity is usually linked to high levels of internal planetary heat just below the lithosphere, which is accurately represented in game by the fact that it most often appears on volcanic worlds.  Solving this would require finding a way to vent massive amounts of geothermal energy into space until the core of the planet has cooled off enough to stabilize its tectonic plates.

  • Again, a blueprint would be required, but this could be a regular (albeit rare) blueprint found in ruins and whatnot.  Or another big fleet battle, your pick.
  • Structure should be expensive to build and very expensive to maintain, and again require an industry slot.  However the structure need not be permanent and could be dismantled once the process is completed.
  • Every 3 years the planet would drop in three categories - tectonic activity (extreme to regular, regular to gone), temperature (very hot to hot, hot to normal, normal to cold, cold to very cold) and atmosphere (regular to thin, thin to none).  Atmosphere because this heat stream is going to blow holes through the sky and cause massive devastation to said atmosphere.  Because of this one is going to want to hold off with the MUD until this whole process is complete, lest they accidentally ruin their little paradise.
  • Because of that it is possible that a planet may end up requiring solar mirrors afterward to bring the temperature back up to livable conditions, if the starting planet wasn't hot enough to soak the heat loss from the process.
  • While this is ongoing population growth drops by 5% and stability drops by 5 points as well, because holy crap that thing is terrifying and no one wants to live near it.  Access also drops by 50% because it makes approaching the planet very risky, and any player fleet docking there will lose 25% of CR for enduring the hazardous atmospheric effects.
  • Any successful raid on that specific facility will trigger a explosion that both destroys the facility and drops stability by 10 points.

So again, could it be done?  Yes.  Is it worth it?  That's debatable, or rather yes it is but it is going to be a very heavy, very intense and long term investment that will make the colony not only highly vulnerable but most likely completely useless until it is complete.

I think I should probably add some way to remove high/low gravity and tectonic conditions due to the popular demand, but this is never going to be a default feature due to the extreme lore breaking nature of removing those conditions. Therefore I don't want to spend a huge amount of time developing complex structures/procedures because most players will never use them.

The ideas you propose, while interesting, definitely would require way too much development time. I'll come up with something easier to develop to satisfy the people who want this.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: arwan on February 29, 2020, 07:03:25 AM
so i got to ask, i have played a few games now with this mod and have NEVER found a M.U.D. anywhere. I had actually forgotten it (the M.U.D.) even existed until i was going through my mods again, so...

where the heck are you supposed to find these things?!?!?!?!?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: TheSAguy on February 29, 2020, 07:49:41 AM
Hi,

I wanted to confirm that Terraforming is only done by the player, not any other factions (NPC), correct?
How can I make the cost higher?
Thanks.,
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: boggled on February 29, 2020, 10:23:48 AM
so i got to ask, i have played a few games now with this mod and have NEVER found a M.U.D. anywhere. I had actually forgotten it (the M.U.D.) even existed until i was going through my mods again, so...

where the heck are you supposed to find these things?!?!?!?!?

The MUD can only be found by looting Domain motherships and survey ships. If you've already destroyed them all in your save, the MUD can only be obtained using the console.

Hi,

I wanted to confirm that Terraforming is only done by the player, not any other factions (NPC), correct?
How can I make the cost higher?
Thanks.,


NPCs cannot initiate terraforming but it should continue normally if a NPC faction gains control of a world where terraforming is in progress.

Which costs did you want to make higher? I can add a setting to increase the costs.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: arwan on February 29, 2020, 05:02:15 PM
thanks for the info, i will start looking for some domain ships.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: Mondaymonkey on February 29, 2020, 11:56:29 PM
Players typically receive about 4-6 MUDs for destroying all the Domain ships

Dude, I don't want to complain, but I already have 6 of them in my new started game. And it is still a minimum of four survey ships exist, as factions sometimes gives a mission to run a sensor package in that four sectors. Even more, one more mothership may (or may not, as sometimes it is only one is generated) exist, as only one is currently found.

Am I a lucky man?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: Serenitis on March 01, 2020, 02:21:24 AM
I'll come up with something easier to develop to satisfy the people who want this.
Roll it into the MUD.
And then put a flag on it that can be set in the options.
"enableMUDgravitychange": true/false,
"enableMUDtectonicschange": true/false,
Or something along those lines.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: boggled on March 01, 2020, 06:48:42 AM
I'll come up with something easier to develop to satisfy the people who want this.
Roll it into the MUD.
And then put a flag on it that can be set in the options.
"enableMUDgravitychange": true/false,
"enableMUDtectonicschange": true/false,
Or something along those lines.

This is a great idea. I'm almost done with the Volturnian lobster quest, and when that's finished I will implement this.

Players typically receive about 4-6 MUDs for destroying all the Domain ships

Dude, I don't want to complain, but I already have 6 of them in my new started game. And it is still a minimum of four survey ships exist, as factions sometimes gives a mission to run a sensor package in that four sectors. Even more, one more mothership may (or may not, as sometimes it is only one is generated) exist, as only one is currently found.

Am I a lucky man?

How many motherships and survey ships have you destroyed? There's a 35% chance to loot a MUD from survey ships, so you may have gotten very lucky.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: McMuster on March 01, 2020, 09:31:32 AM
L O B S T E R Q U E S T
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: Mondaymonkey on March 01, 2020, 10:24:58 AM
One mothership and six survey ships. Only one of them haven't loot a MUD.

I have almost forgot a school math, but it is seems like 0.84% probability to score 6 of 7 on 0.35 loot chance. Bernoulli formula used, but I can be wrong.

P.S. I was wrong about motherships. There are only one mothership is generated in vanilla. Mixed up with cryosleepers, they are two. Still minimal of 4 survey ships left.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: boggled on March 01, 2020, 11:32:32 AM
One mothership and six survey ships. Only one of them haven't loot a MUD.

I have almost forgot a school math, but it is seems like 0.84% probability to score 6 of 7 on 0.35 loot chance. Bernoulli formula used, but I can be wrong.

P.S. I was wrong about motherships. There are only one mothership is generated in vanilla. Mixed up with cryosleepers, they are two. Still minimal of 4 survey ships left.

~1% chance is within the realm of possibility. It seems you got extremely lucky. If you start a new game and have similar results, then I would start becoming worried that there's a problem with the drop chances.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: intrinsic_parity on March 01, 2020, 12:05:13 PM
I recall I found 4 in the one campaign I used this mod. IMO they should only drop from motherships but be guaranteed. I think having 1 or 2 is fine, but more than that feels pretty overpowered.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: Mondaymonkey on March 01, 2020, 12:21:42 PM
If you start a new game and have similar results

That will not happen soon, but I will let you know if so.

Weird thing: I've started a new game to obtain a MUD to terraform  my colonies. But now, when I have a large bunch of them, suddenly realize, I don't need them at all. Terraforming abilities, possible without a MUD, are already good enough to make most of a boulders, flying in space, perhaps not a perfect identical boring terran worlds, but a diverse hospitable places to live.

P.S. Lobsters would be great.
Spoiler
(https://i.gifer.com/7QRB.gif)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
Post by: boggled on March 01, 2020, 01:40:57 PM
I recall I found 4 in the one campaign I used this mod. IMO they should only drop from motherships but be guaranteed. I think having 1 or 2 is fine, but more than that feels pretty overpowered.

They are currently a guaranteed drop from motherships. Realistically it takes quite a bit of time to scour the sector for survey ships to find more, so I think it's fine. Perhaps some people are finding them faster than intended due to mods and/or non-default sector generation. In any case, players can can edit the drop_groups.csv file in this mod to change the availability to whatever they want if they disagree with my default settings.

If you start a new game and have similar results

That will not happen soon, but I will let you know if so.

Weird thing: I've started a new game to obtain a MUD to terraform  my colonies. But now, when I have a large bunch of them, suddenly realize, I don't need them at all. Terraforming abilities, possible without a MUD, are already good enough to make most of a boulders, flying in space, perhaps not a perfect identical boring terran worlds, but a diverse hospitable places to live.

P.S. Lobsters would be great.
Spoiler
(https://i.gifer.com/7QRB.gif)
[close]

Yeah, if you know your options regarding the non-MUD terraforming paths you can set up some very nice systems without using any MUDs at all.

Lobsters are coming soon!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.0)
Post by: Nia Tahl on March 01, 2020, 05:46:59 PM
With the recent release of Industrial Evolution introducing some industries that benefit from otherwise negative conditions, it seems like this would make it a consideration to allow allow stellar shades and mirrors to also add the cold or hot conditions to planets of neutral temperature. Just a consideration.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.0)
Post by: DecoyGrenadeOut on March 01, 2020, 08:03:23 PM
Hello, first off, I just want to say your mod rocks, it really changed how I looked at system with not-quite-perfect planets, and in combination with Industrial Evolution this mod has really freshened the colony system for me!

Second, I just wanted to ask, how/where do you build Drone Control Nexus industry? I found this system I like a lot which unfortunately all have arid and desert planets but no cyrovolcanic or water planets, now the OP says you can only build in in a Station Market but I'm not sure what it is, and I'm not aware of any way to build a station (but I have orbital station in each of my planets). It'd be great if you elaborated this for me. Thanks in advance.

Also, is v4.0.0 save compatible from v3.0.4?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.0)
Post by: e on March 01, 2020, 09:24:39 PM
Is it possible to get the quest on randomly generated core worlds? (from Nexerelin)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.0)
Post by: TFrenchCanadian on March 01, 2020, 09:28:03 PM
DecoyGrenadeOut the drone control nexus industry can be build on any of boggled's space stations from is other mods.

-Astropoli
-Mining stations
-Siphon stations
-recolonize space station (abandoned space station,orbital habitat,gate control stations and other if added)
-gate control stations
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.0)
Post by: DecoyGrenadeOut on March 01, 2020, 09:43:52 PM
DecoyGrenadeOut the drone control nexus industry can be build on any of boggled's space stations from is other mods.

-Astropoli
-Mining stations
-Siphon stations
-recolonize space station (abandoned space station,orbital habitat,gate control stations and other if added)
-gate control stations

Oh I see, thank you very much! I'll certainly have to try out the mod.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.0)
Post by: Bastion.Systems on March 02, 2020, 03:59:59 AM
By Andrata, Lobsters Yess!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.0)
Post by: boggled on March 02, 2020, 02:53:57 PM
With the recent release of Industrial Evolution introducing some industries that benefit from otherwise negative conditions, it seems like this would make it a consideration to allow allow stellar shades and mirrors to also add the cold or hot conditions to planets of neutral temperature. Just a consideration.

I hope to rework the terraforming process in the future in such a way that this will become possible. I don't want to do anything until the next Starsector update (and possibly Stars in Shadow update so I can steal textures) is released. I really like the Industrial Evolution mod and when the time comes I'm going to look into ways this mod can complement it if players have both installed.

Is it possible to get the quest on randomly generated core worlds? (from Nexerelin)

No. The quest is tied in with the lore of the Askonia system (they're called Volturnian lobsters for a reason), so I can't support randomized core worlds. If you want to be able to seed lobsters, you can disable the quest in the settings file. This will enable the lobster seeding ability without you having to complete the quest.

Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.0)
Post by: e on March 02, 2020, 03:05:20 PM
No. The quest is tied in with the lore of the Askonia system (they're called Volturnian lobsters for a reason), so I can't support randomized core worlds. If you want to be able to seed lobsters, you can disable the quest in the settings file. This will enable the lobster seeding ability without you having to complete the quest.

Alright, thanks!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.0)
Post by: PreConceptor on March 02, 2020, 06:53:42 PM
Any chance you can add options in the files to adjust the prices/upkeep/time-to-work of all the structures? Would be useful for people who want to make terraforming a very, very endgame thing.

edit: just looked in some files, does the industries.csv sheet's 'cost mult' and 'upkeep' columns correspond directly to credit cost/upkeep and will it affect anything else if they're changed?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.0)
Post by: redomer on March 03, 2020, 01:13:21 AM
I got a got a problem. I am trying to terraform a bunch of planets in one system but I can't build the sling because all planets are barren and no planet is big enough to support a station. What do?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.0)
Post by: NephilimNexus on March 03, 2020, 04:23:26 AM
With the recent release of Industrial Evolution introducing some industries that benefit from otherwise negative conditions, it seems like this would make it a consideration to allow allow stellar shades and mirrors to also add the cold or hot conditions to planets of neutral temperature. Just a consideration.

Ah... you mean how supercomputers work better on cold planets?  That's a good point!

But I have to wonder, on IE's end, if the benefit from the financial computer being on a cold world outweighs the extra cost of upkeep incurred by the cold planet's higher hazard rating?  Because that is going to affect every structure on the planet, not just the computer itself.  I haven't tested it, but it is something they should perhaps consider.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.0)
Post by: Uhlang on March 03, 2020, 09:35:40 AM
I got a got a problem. I am trying to terraform a bunch of planets in one system but I can't build the sling because all planets are barren and no planet is big enough to support a station. What do?
You can't terraform barren planets with this mod.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.0)
Post by: redomer on March 03, 2020, 02:34:19 PM
Pretty sure you can as long as there are shades or mirrors in orbit and water gets supplied. I think I even did that in this game.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.0)
Post by: boggled on March 03, 2020, 02:41:07 PM
Any chance you can add options in the files to adjust the prices/upkeep/time-to-work of all the structures? Would be useful for people who want to make terraforming a very, very endgame thing.

edit: just looked in some files, does the industries.csv sheet's 'cost mult' and 'upkeep' columns correspond directly to credit cost/upkeep and will it affect anything else if they're changed?

Yes, I will add this feature in the next update.

I got a got a problem. I am trying to terraform a bunch of planets in one system but I can't build the sling because all planets are barren and no planet is big enough to support a station. What do?

You cannot terraform barren planets, but you can terraform "barren-desert" planets.

You can build the Drone Control Nexus on the mining stations and siphon stations from my other mod, Player Station Construction. Are there any gas giants or asteroid fields/belts in the system? If so, you can build a station and then build the Drone Control Nexus on it.

Pretty sure you can as long as there are shades or mirrors in orbit and water gets supplied. I think I even did that in this game.

This method can terraform planets classified as barren-desert, but not barren planets themselves. You'll need a MUD to terraform truly barren planets.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.0)
Post by: redomer on March 04, 2020, 12:38:24 AM
Oof. My bad then. Yeah. No asteroids or gas giants in the system. Guess I gotta whip out the two MUD I still have and find some new ones.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.0)
Post by: Mondaymonkey on March 04, 2020, 09:13:11 AM
Quote
You cannot terraform barren planets

And that is a problem. IMO.

[Scientific mode ON]
Each time we are talking about terraforming we should consider four huge objectives it consist of:

-Temperature.
-Atmosphere.
-Hydrosphere.
-Lithosphere.

Probably, the most understandable part is a temperature. Obviously, you should cool the hot planets and warm up the cold ones. Nowadays science is unable to make this, but Sci-Fi have a many ways to do so. In a Starsector vanilla it is made by a solar shades and a stellar mirrors orbiting some core worlds planets. This method is already implemented in a mod.

Other objective already possible by this mod is a Hydrosphere. Capturing an icy asteroids and guiding them to any desirable planet is possible even with a modern technologies, all the problem is the amount of resources you are ready to spend. No magic here.

Barren planets has no atmosphere at all. That might be looks bad, but it is not. You see, the Earth hydrosphere mass is 1.46*1021 kg and the atmosphere mass is 5.2*1018 kg. That means, adding an air to Earth-sized planets is approximately 10000 times easier, than adding a water, which is already possible by this mod. Each solar system has a lot of frozen pieces of ice in its Kuiper belts, many of them are ammoniac - good source of a nitrogen, 78% of the atmosphere. Oxygen can be found both in an asteroids and a planetary cores of a barren planets in a bound state. So, there are no problem with a source. However, adding an atmosphere is only half of a problem, the other one - is to hold it. Lack of a gravity and/or magnetic field will result solar wind will blow all the air you add. Changing a gravity or a magnetic field is a tricky task. Fortunately, we do not need this, as vanilla already has an answer, called a "planetary shield". If that thing is able to complicate penetration from the outside, it should be able to keep gases inside, and stop the solar winds. Consider it as a planetary-scale dome.

Lithosphere is the hardest challenge. You can't replace even a small upper layer if it is inappropriate. That is such a HUGE effort, even MUD magic can't deal with. However, it is not necessarily you need it at all. See, not all of the barren worlds has a poisonous inappropriate core. Earth's Moon can be considered as a typical barren, or a barren-bombarded world. Soil samples, delivered by the Apollo missions shows, that it is fit to farming if water and organics is added. Results, similar to Moon was acquired from a Mars probes. That is not surprising, as all of the planets was made from the same accretion disk, and contain exactly same elements in a different proportion. Many of a Starsector systems have a habitable worlds, that means barren planets have a serious chance to consist of a proper substances to support life.

If short - barren planets should be able to terraform. If not all, but some kinds. If not to terran type, but something else.
[Scientific mode OFF]

Frankly said, I don't need it. I'm OK with my barren planets remain barren. However, I just have to say all of this. For great justice!©
(https://i.imgur.com/Mck2ZMI.png)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.0)
Post by: boggled on March 04, 2020, 02:32:10 PM
Quote
You cannot terraform barren planets

And that is a problem. IMO.

[Scientific mode ON]
Each time we are talking about terraforming we should consider four huge objectives it consist of:

-Temperature.
-Atmosphere.
-Hydrosphere.
-Lithosphere.

Probably, the most understandable part is a temperature. Obviously, you should cool the hot planets and warm up the cold ones. Nowadays science is unable to make this, but Sci-Fi have a many ways to do so. In a Starsector vanilla it is made by a solar shades and a stellar mirrors orbiting some core worlds planets. This method is already implemented in a mod.

Other objective already possible by this mod is a Hydrosphere. Capturing an icy asteroids and guiding them to any desirable planet is possible even with a modern technologies, all the problem is the amount of resources you are ready to spend. No magic here.

Barren planets has no atmosphere at all. That might be looks bad, but it is not. You see, the Earth hydrosphere mass is 1.46*1021 kg and the atmosphere mass is 5.2*1018 kg. That means, adding an air to Earth-sized planets is approximately 10000 times easier, than adding a water, which is already possible by this mod. Each solar system has a lot of frozen pieces of ice in its Kuiper belts, many of them are ammoniac - good source of a nitrogen, 78% of the atmosphere. Oxygen can be found both in an asteroids and a planetary cores of a barren planets in a bound state. So, there are no problem with a source. However, adding an atmosphere is only half of a problem, the other one - is to hold it. Lack of a gravity and/or magnetic field will result solar wind will blow all the air you add. Changing a gravity or a magnetic field is a tricky task. Fortunately, we do not need this, as vanilla already has an answer, called a "planetary shield". If that thing is able to complicate penetration from the outside, it should be able to keep gases inside, and stop the solar winds. Consider it as a planetary-scale dome.

Lithosphere is the hardest challenge. You can't replace even a small upper layer if it is inappropriate. That is such a HUGE effort, even MUD magic can't deal with. However, it is not necessarily you need it at all. See, not all of the barren worlds has a poisonous inappropriate core. Earth's Moon can be considered as a typical barren, or a barren-bombarded world. Soil samples, delivered by the Apollo missions shows, that it is fit to farming if water and organics is added. Results, similar to Moon was acquired from a Mars probes. That is not surprising, as all of the planets was made from the same accretion disk, and contain exactly same elements in a different proportion. Many of a Starsector systems have a habitable worlds, that means barren planets have a serious chance to consist of a proper substances to support life.

If short - barren planets should be able to terraform. If not all, but some kinds. If not to terran type, but something else.
[Scientific mode OFF]

Frankly said, I don't need it. I'm OK with my barren planets remain barren. However, I just have to say all of this. For great justice!©
(https://i.imgur.com/Mck2ZMI.png)

You're right, and I hope to rework terraforming at some point in the future to closely resemble what you've proposed. It's more complicated to do this than you may think, and I don't have planet textures to show planets in an intermediate stage of terraforming. I'm hoping another game that I've already stolen some art from (Stars in Shadow) will release their terraforming update, which will allow me to get the textures I think I need for the rework. No guarantees though!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.0)
Post by: FahadXray on March 05, 2020, 02:12:43 AM
Hey guys, got a question. For some reason this Auric planet (which should be part of the arid group) is not terraforming, I've already build a drone control center in the system, and there's a windy arid planet in this system that's currently being terraformed.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.0)
Post by: Mondaymonkey on March 05, 2020, 07:41:02 AM
Quote
It's more complicated to do this than you may think

I think it is probably as hard, as having sex in a 69-way in a standing position in a hammock. ©

I am aware that game have no build-in instruments, that can help you. Creating them is basically equal to making your own game inside existing one. That is main reason I don't ask you to do so. Let the barren planets remain barren. There are still many things, way more easier and needful, you can do instead of that.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.0)
Post by: boggled on March 05, 2020, 02:47:56 PM
Hey guys, got a question. For some reason this Auric planet (which should be part of the arid group) is not terraforming, I've already build a drone control center in the system, and there's a windy arid planet in this system that's currently being terraformed.

Auric planets are considered part of the terran group for the purposes of my mod. Therefore, they cannot be terraformed. I assigned it to this group based on the description of the planet, which indicates it can support life and says nothing about temperatures/hydrosphere. If auric planets always have hot or very hot temperatures, let me know and I will switch it to the desert category. Thanks!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.0)
Post by: Uhlang on March 07, 2020, 07:06:24 AM
There's no support for Valjean, an arid world from Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering.

The error message says that its planet type is "istl_aridbread".
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.0)
Post by: boggled on March 07, 2020, 09:42:49 AM
There's no support for Valjean, an arid world from Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering.

The error message says that its planet type is "istl_aridbread".

I'll add support for this planet in the next patch. Thank you for letting me know about this!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.1)
Post by: Kh0rnet on March 08, 2020, 06:10:33 PM
This is a great mod.
Terraforming was something that the game desperately needs considering colonization content.
The most tedious thing about Starsector playthroughs for me is hunting for "that" system that's good enough for me to finally settle in, and there's always something not right with every one I find. That terran planet has high gravity, that system has no volatiles, etc. Good to know I can finally get some tools at my disposal.

I would only like to know one thing: is it possible to remove the "Tectonic Activity" and "Pollution" modifiers somehow from a planet that's already Terran? Will the MUD solve that for me?

Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.1)
Post by: Mondaymonkey on March 08, 2020, 11:37:21 PM
"Tectonic Activity" and "Pollution" modifiers somehow from a planet that's already Terran? Will the MUD solve that for me?

"Tectonic Activity" - NO. Same thing is to a "hight\low gravity" and "no light". You can not improve that.

"Pollution" - YES. You do not need a MUD to do this. "Atmosphere Adjuster" structure will do the job. Slow and costly, tho'.

Advice: you do not need to hunt "perfect" system. Hazard modifiers are no more than small upkeep increase. Hight "accessibility" grants huge income, able to overlap even 275% hazard rating penalty. Besides, it is boring to have all the planets of a same terran type. Where would you seed lobsters? Just choose "good enough" system.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.1)
Post by: Kh0rnet on March 09, 2020, 03:54:06 AM
"Tectonic Activity" and "Pollution" modifiers somehow from a planet that's already Terran? Will the MUD solve that for me?

"Tectonic Activity" - NO. Same thing is to a "hight\low gravity" and "no light". You can not improve that.

"Pollution" - YES. You do not need a MUD to do this. "Atmosphere Adjuster" structure will do the job. Slow and costly, tho'.

Advice: you do not need to hunt "perfect" system. Hazard modifiers are no more than small upkeep increase. Hight "accessibility" grants huge income, able to overlap even 275% hazard rating penalty. Besides, it is boring to have all the planets of a same terran type. Where would you seed lobsters? Just choose "good enough" system.

I am aware of all that, of course, but WHAT IF I set up my colonies then one cycle later I find an even BETTER system? That thought doesn't let me sleep at night, I tell ya...

As for the "Dark" hazard, we are getting artificial suns in the core game next update... I can't wait for 2025!
"Tectonic Activity" honestly makes no sense to be logically fixable, which is something I hate because I'd love if terraforming provided a logical (if expensive/tedious) solution to every planetary hazard. How would you realistically stabilize a planet's tectonic plates though?

Same for gravity (I absolutely HATE "High Gravity", it ruined more than one terran world for me...). I imagine some kind of planet-wide, giant gravitational stabilizers wouldn't be considered more space magic than we already have?

Maybe, ultimately, for balance reasons, terraforming shouldn't eliminate the hazard conditions but reduce their hazard rating by some amount, like -15% or -10%? In lieu of this mechanic, it would also be cool if the already existing terraforming methods didn't eliminate the hazard outright one day, but reduced its hazard rating steadily over time. So, for example, the pollution doesn't just evaporate one day, but steadily decreases over the cycles.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.1)
Post by: Mondaymonkey on March 09, 2020, 04:31:54 AM
Well, you can always:

"boggledMillerUreyDeviceFixesGravityConditions":true,
"boggledMillerUreyDeviceFixesTectonicConditions":true,

Boring as it can be. Your choice, thought. 

Quote
How would you realistically stabilize a planet's tectonic plates though?

Spoiler
(https://images.homedepot-static.com/productImages/16510e70-75c6-49a6-b5ee-9e8f8653b5e2/svn/metallics-roberts-duct-tape-50-555-64_1000.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.1)
Post by: Uhlang on March 09, 2020, 08:18:13 AM
Speaking of Tectonic Activity... Does it make sense for it to be a hazard on water worlds?
Cryovolcanic and frozen worlds can have it, and it stays when you terraform them into water worlds, but I honestly think it should disappear.
I mean, is tectonic activity really a threat when the plates(if they exist at all) are potentially hundreds of miles deep? Even if it's a water world that's on the shallower side, the consequent restlessness of the ocean seems like something that would be counted as part of the "Water-Covered Surface" hazard.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.1)
Post by: Mondaymonkey on March 09, 2020, 08:56:52 AM
Off course, if ocean is deep there would be no 10 km tall tsunami. However, an earthquake-produced wave still remains as a couple meter tall hill-of-water, with a many kilometers-sized basis. It is harmless to a small floating objects, like boats, but a larger scale object, like floating cities or industrial megastructures have a size, comparable with giant wave. That means they will suffer a dynamic deformation, much worse than just "ordinary waves" or "tides". In addition, there are no dry land, so the earthquake-produced wave will round a planet and hit again and again.

I am not agree, that tectonic activity should be removed from a water planets. Modern cruise liners already have a minor deformation problems on a earthquake-produced wave hit, and they are tiny, compared to wave size.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.1)
Post by: Uhlang on March 09, 2020, 09:38:31 AM
Again, that seems like part of the "Water-Covered Surface" hazard.
I'm fairly sure waves like that would exist with or without the tectonic activity.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.1)
Post by: Mondaymonkey on March 09, 2020, 10:19:25 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/G1oyo4d.png)


P.S. I am true Photoshop God!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.1)
Post by: Uhlang on March 09, 2020, 11:18:13 AM
Why are you so certain that a wave like that can't form without tectonic activity?
There are other things that can disturb the ocean of a water world in that way. Tidal forces, winds, a stray meteor, a derelict Atlas falling from orbit... I don't see why the ocean of a regular water world(without Mild Climate) would be as tranquil as you portray.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.1)
Post by: Mondaymonkey on March 09, 2020, 12:48:13 PM
Not tranquil, no. It can have an extremely unstable surface. What the difference? Amount of an energy, distributed by waves and amount of a water mass is moved. Those values determine the wave length and amplitude.

Winds, surface explosions, smaller object impacts can do terribly destructive waves, but short length.  Only thin upper layer will be disturbed, no significant mass movement. That type of hazard can obliterate an outer sheathing of a large structures, but nothing more, as the structural deformation areas are small (can not be larger than wavelength if no resonance).

Tectonic activities, underwater explosions and really large meteor impacts are able to move entire depth of an ocean creating wave as long as much allow an energy amount. Structures, that have size, compared to a wavelength will suffer deformation areas up to a wavelength size. No matter what material is used in a structure, an interaction transfer rate of a material is not infinite, so scaling up dynamic deformation areas will sooner or later makes it or crack or bend. First will rip apart a structure, second means it need a flexible joints to repeat current surface shape. Flexible joints will do any production more complicated as there will be no stable horizontal level. Also it is mean a much faster joint deterioration = hight maintenance.

Tidal forces can move entire ocean, but you need a planet-sized structure to feel it.

I am terribly sorry. It is looks like I am not able to translate all amount of explanation into english.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.1)
Post by: Uhlang on March 09, 2020, 02:13:44 PM
It's okay, I'm not Anglo myself, so I'm well-equipped to interpret your writing.

That aside... I was just hit with a realization that should've come to me the moment I considered this issue.
Wouldn't the immense depths of a typical water world just crush anything at the bottom into a solid, immovable orb? Could tectonic activity even happen when the lithosphere is being subjected to obscene amounts of pressure from every direction?
I'm not an expert, but that seems unlikely. Even our own little Mariana Trench(11km) is terrifying with how easily it can crush things, so imagine what a world of only water that's 100s of miles deep can do. Even if there were some plate tectonics, I feel like the pressure would be strong enough to keep their effects localized and they would never reach the surface.

What do you think?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.1)
Post by: tomatopaste on March 09, 2020, 03:09:39 PM
It's okay, I'm not Anglo myself, so I'm well-equipped to interpret your writing.

That aside... I was just hit with a realization that should've come to me the moment I considered this issue.
Wouldn't the immense depths of a typical water world just crush anything at the bottom into a solid, immovable orb? Could tectonic activity even happen when the lithosphere is being subjected to obscene amounts of pressure from every direction?
I'm not an expert, but that seems unlikely. Even our own little Mariana Trench(11km) is terrifying with how easily it can crush things, so imagine what a world of only water that's 100s of miles deep can do. Even if there were some plate tectonics, I feel like the pressure would be strong enough to keep their effects localized and they would never reach the surface.

What do you think?

This is getting a little off topic, but high water pressure has negligible effect on dampening waves. Instead, it makes it easier to transmit energy.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.1)
Post by: Uhlang on March 09, 2020, 03:37:01 PM
This is getting a little off topic, but high water pressure has negligible effect on dampening waves. Instead, it makes it easier to transmit energy.
But can't the pressure at the bottom of a water world be so great that the plates can barely even budge?
No tectonic movement would mean no tectonic energy created. No tectonic energy created would mean no effect on the waves. Is that wrong?

And I don't see how this is off-topic. We're still discussing whether terraformed water worlds should have the Tectonic Activity hazard.

Wait... Can water worlds spawn with it naturally? That seems like the best way to decide whether it should stay.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.1)
Post by: e on March 09, 2020, 04:03:31 PM
This is getting a little off topic, but high water pressure has negligible effect on dampening waves. Instead, it makes it easier to transmit energy.
But can't the pressure at the bottom of a water world be so great that the plates can barely even budge?
No tectonic movement would mean no tectonic energy created. No tectonic energy created would mean no effect on the waves. Is that wrong?

And I don't see how this is off-topic. We're still discussing whether terraformed water worlds should have the Tectonic Activity hazard.

Wait... Can water worlds spawn with it naturally? That seems like the best way to decide whether it should stay.

I've seen natural water worlds with tectonic activity, can't really prove it right now thought.

Also i don't think tectonics would be the only cause for tidal waves, there are other factors like wind, celestial bodies (moons and whatnot), gravitational conditions, lifeforms scuttling about that ocean, the very movement of the planet orbiting around the system.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.1)
Post by: Mondaymonkey on March 10, 2020, 09:10:52 AM
Quote
Wouldn't the immense depths of a typical water world just crush anything at the bottom into a solid, immovable orb?

Oh, dude, that is a theoretical mechanic combined with a "sopromat"(unable to translate). Crystalline substances will get more solid only until some point, where pressure start to disturb inner connections between a material's particles (atoms\molecules). That will make them more like a wet clay, than solid. Basically - amorphous transformation. No one ever reach that pressure (equivalent to a 20+ km depth) in a large scale in the lab, so this is no more than theory. But non of that matters, in fact, because any material loose it's properties and gain new ones as you change it size. Have you ever hear about a nanotechnology stuff? Same weird magic if enlarge any common object to a planetary scale. So I doubt if anyone can give you an answer, will this immovable orb be so immovable.

And yes, of course, all of was said is about cool planetary cores, below melting point. Tectonic planets have large chances to be really hot inside, even if surface is frozen, and that means liquid core that will remain liquid and tectonic active. No pressure will make liquids be solid above melting point.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.1)
Post by: Kh0rnet on March 10, 2020, 09:41:56 AM
Will MUD remove Irradiated?
I'd really like some kind of method of testing what it would do to a planet that doesn't take an in-game cycle of waiting...
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.1)
Post by: Mondaymonkey on March 10, 2020, 10:00:03 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/5VzjefP.png?1)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.1)
Post by: Uhlang on March 10, 2020, 12:42:38 PM
Well, I think I found my answer, and it's the very anti-climactic "depends on the water world."

A "shallow"(say, 10km) water world might be just as susceptible to tectonic effects as any terrestrial world, but that would change in deeper ones.
Spoiler
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Phase_diagram_of_water.svg)
[close]
According to this, beyond 632.4 MPa of pressure(which you would get at depths of about 63km,) water would be crushed into a form of ice, ice-VI, that can stay solid above generic water's melting point, and past 2.1 GPa(210km,) it would become ice-VII, which you couldn't even cook back into a liquid form.
So, a sufficiently deep water world would have a thick, regenerating layer of unmelting super-ice around its lithosphere(if it has one,) which I'm pretty sure would prevent any kind of tectonic activity.
Scientific naming aside, this effect is actually acknowledged in canon in Volturn's description:
Quote
Volturn possesses a thick atmosphere over a world-sea which has been seeded with re-engineered Terra-type life forms that have largely displaced the relatively primitive native organisms which once formed vast drifting colonial mats. Beneath the hundreds of kilometers of ocean a core of water-ice over a rocky-metallic core is formed by the immense pressure. Volturn's population lives in a diverse range of floating habitats and subsists largely on farming and processing complex organic compounds.
As well as the generic water world description:
Quote
A primitive atmosphere covers a world-ocean hundreds of kilometers deep. Its waters teem with primitive life and vast algae-analog mats can be seen by instruments from space. A core of water-ice over a rocky mantle is created by the terrific pressure of the sea.

I'm a bit conflicted. If I assume that a water world is shallow, it does make sense for it to be affected by tectonic activity, but that would mean ignoring the generic description, which implies that they're all deep enough to form higher forms of ice and thus subdue the unruly rocks below. But if the hazard can really spawn on water worlds naturally, then I don't even know what to make of this.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.1)
Post by: Kh0rnet on March 10, 2020, 12:44:32 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/5VzjefP.png?1)

Oof, I feel mega dumb. I explicitly read THAT description in game to check and avoid asking on the forum, and the "radiation" word completely eluded me...
Cheers.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.1)
Post by: boggled on March 10, 2020, 02:24:41 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/5VzjefP.png?1)

Oof, I feel mega dumb. I explicitly read THAT description in game to check and avoid asking on the forum, and the "radiation" word completely eluded me...
Cheers.

If you don't want to wait a cycle to see the results, you can use the setting in the settings.csv file that modifies the time it takes to complete terraforming for the MUD. I think setting it to zero should result in immediate terraforming without any bugs.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.1)
Post by: Kh0rnet on March 11, 2020, 07:31:09 AM
If you don't want to wait a cycle to see the results, you can use the setting in the settings.csv file that modifies the time it takes to complete terraforming for the MUD. I think setting it to zero should result in immediate terraforming without any bugs.

Thank for the protip, will do next time I wanna test terraforming.

If you're willing to expand/rework the mod as I've briefly seen you mention in your station construction mod thread: I humbly suggest some kind of gravity stabilizer structure to counteract the effects of gravity hazards. I think it's highly plausible since it's already considered "probable" by science to manipulate it using electromagnetism. I know we can currently do it with a MUD through settings but that feels too cheap. Technically it would work the same as stellar shades/mirrors, but the effect would be instant, and of course it would have to keep running.
I've seen too many good habitable worlds ruined by high gravity already...

Same for tectonic activity, though that one hurts me a lot less in general.

Also, since I'm personally finding planet/colony management my favorite part of Starsector (in part thanks to your mod), I'd also like to ask: is there any hope of seeing extra functionality/compatibility for Unknown Skies (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=12041.0 (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=12041.0))?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.1)
Post by: Arak on March 11, 2020, 09:04:39 AM
Found an planet that is unsupported by the Miller-Urey Device that I believe is either part of Kadur Remnant or Vayra's Sector, it's Melek Taus in the Gehenna System and the tooltip for the device labels it as "vayra_bread".

Just wanted to give a heads up, love the mod!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.1)
Post by: boggled on March 11, 2020, 02:34:22 PM
If you don't want to wait a cycle to see the results, you can use the setting in the settings.csv file that modifies the time it takes to complete terraforming for the MUD. I think setting it to zero should result in immediate terraforming without any bugs.

Thank for the protip, will do next time I wanna test terraforming.

If you're willing to expand/rework the mod as I've briefly seen you mention in your station construction mod thread: I humbly suggest some kind of gravity stabilizer structure to counteract the effects of gravity hazards. I think it's highly plausible since it's already considered "probable" by science to manipulate it using electromagnetism. I know we can currently do it with a MUD through settings but that feels too cheap. Technically it would work the same as stellar shades/mirrors, but the effect would be instant, and of course it would have to keep running.
I've seen too many good habitable worlds ruined by high gravity already...

Same for tectonic activity, though that one hurts me a lot less in general.

Also, since I'm personally finding planet/colony management my favorite part of Starsector (in part thanks to your mod), I'd also like to ask: is there any hope of seeing extra functionality/compatibility for Unknown Skies (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=12041.0 (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=12041.0))?

I decided not to add dedicated buildings for tectonic/gravity because it would be a non-default setting, and the amount of work required to implement those buildings would be very high relative to the number of players who would use them. I think the majority of players either would not enable tectonic/gravity terraforming due to the lorebreaking nature of those things, or they are satisfied with the MUD removing those conditions.

I already support Unknown Skies. If you see anything related to Unknown Skies that is unsupported, please let me know so I can add support.

Found an planet that is unsupported by the Miller-Urey Device that I believe is either part of Kadur Remnant or Vayra's Sector, it's Melek Taus in the Gehenna System and the tooltip for the device labels it as "vayra_bread".

Just wanted to give a heads up, love the mod!

I will issue a patch adding support for this planet shortly. Thank you for letting me know, and I'm glad you're enjoying my mods!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.1)
Post by: Serenitis on March 12, 2020, 11:31:25 AM
Wait... Can water worlds spawn with it naturally? That seems like the best way to decide whether it should stay.

Yes.

Water worlds are part of cat_hab3, which by default have a 10% chance of having tectonics and a 1% chance of having extreme tectonics generated on them.
There is however an extra column in the table specifically for water worlds, but every entry for tectonics is blank. And I'm fairly sure that only non-blank entries here would override the cat3 data.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: Uhlang on March 12, 2020, 01:31:43 PM
Thanks for confirming.

I don't know if it's an oversight or intentional, but I'm not it's really convinced that it's reasonable for tectonic activity to exist on water worlds due to the lore saying that they're all obscenely deep.
I think I'll just use the console to remove it from any water worlds I find.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: redomer on March 13, 2020, 04:56:12 AM
I have a quesiton about the lobster quest. I didn't ask any questions in the intitial meeting but now it seem that I can't get the technology for the lobsters. Will there be subsequent quests or is that it?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.0)
Post by: Serenitis on March 13, 2020, 06:13:44 AM
Auric planets are considered part of the terran group for the purposes of my mod. Therefore, they cannot be terraformed. I assigned it to this group based on the description of the planet, which indicates it can support life and says nothing about temperatures/hydrosphere. If auric planets always have hot or very hot temperatures, let me know and I will switch it to the desert category. Thanks!

From a while back, but just for confirmation....

Auric planets are tagged as cat_hab3, so are in the same class as arid/jungle/tundra/water etc. They have a single class override which makes them more common around blue stars, but are otherwise identical.

The temperature condidtions are largely controlled by the type of star the planet is orbiting, and how closely.
There are no overrides in cat_hab3 or US_auric that specify temperature.
Most Auric planets tend to have heat conditions solely because they tend to be found around blue stars, which are the hottest.


Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: boggled on March 13, 2020, 02:36:43 PM
I have a quesiton about the lobster quest. I didn't ask any questions in the intitial meeting but now it seem that I can't get the technology for the lobsters. Will there be subsequent quests or is that it?


You need to ask questions in the bar otherwise the player never learns about the lobster connection, and can never activate the lobster seeding ability. If you don't want to reload an earlier save, you can disable the lobster quest in the settings file to immediately enable the lobster seeding ability.

Auric planets are considered part of the terran group for the purposes of my mod. Therefore, they cannot be terraformed. I assigned it to this group based on the description of the planet, which indicates it can support life and says nothing about temperatures/hydrosphere. If auric planets always have hot or very hot temperatures, let me know and I will switch it to the desert category. Thanks!

From a while back, but just for confirmation....

Auric planets are tagged as cat_hab3, so are in the same class as arid/jungle/tundra/water etc. They have a single class override which makes them more common around blue stars, but are otherwise identical.

The temperature condidtions are largely controlled by the type of star the planet is orbiting, and how closely.
There are no overrides in cat_hab3 or US_auric that specify temperature.
Most Auric planets tend to have heat conditions solely because they tend to be found around blue stars, which are the hottest.




Hmm, based on this information I think classifying auric planets as arid is probably the best option. I'll include this in the next patch. Thank you once again Serenitis for all your help!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: Mondaymonkey on March 14, 2020, 07:54:27 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/EfMKETs.png)

That is not a real issue, more like cosmetic imperfection. Each time I flyby those planets can't rid of thinking that the first has not enough shades and the second probably overshaded. And they are not the biggest and smallest object to colonize and build a shades/mirrors.

I am aware it is not that easy to procedurally change the number of objects and their position, but is it possible to change their size?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: boggled on March 14, 2020, 09:37:27 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/EfMKETs.png)

That is not a real issue, more like cosmetic imperfection. Each time I flyby those planets can't rid of thinking that the first has not enough shades and the second probably overshaded. And they are not the biggest and smallest object to colonize and build a shades/mirrors.

I am aware it is not that easy to procedurally change the number of objects and their position, but is it possible to change their size?

I noticed this as well, but the stellar shades present in the vanilla game are all the same size. I think it's best to retain uniformity with the vanilla game shades rather than to size them based on the planet.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: GeneralWaffles on March 14, 2020, 03:59:46 PM
Okay so I've probably missed it scouring through the posts, I guess I'm blind but do you know what modifiers are taken and or given to planets when terraforming?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: boggled on March 14, 2020, 04:03:09 PM
Okay so I've probably missed it scouring through the posts, I guess I'm blind but do you know what modifiers are taken and or given to planets when terraforming?

You can see this information in the tooltips of the stellar reflectors and MUD. There are no negative effects/modifiers that occur as a result of terraforming, although planets can revert to a previous type if you scrap the stellar reflectors after terraforming is finished.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: GeneralWaffles on March 14, 2020, 04:06:57 PM
Okay so I've probably missed it scouring through the posts, I guess I'm blind but do you know what modifiers are taken and or given to planets when terraforming?

You can see this information in the tooltips of the stellar reflectors and MUD. There are no negative effects/modifiers that occur as a result of terraforming, although planets can revert to a previous type if you scrap the stellar reflectors after terraforming is finished.

Okay thanks, I just wanted to know what i was in for when i invested my spess bitcoin into this
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: Bucket on March 15, 2020, 02:51:45 AM
How the heck do I trigger the Lobster quest? Umbra in my playthrough is under the ownership of Blackrock and none of the bar contacts are triggering.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: Mondaymonkey on March 15, 2020, 03:19:57 AM
How the heck do I trigger the Lobster quest? Umbra in my playthrough is under the ownership of Blackrock and none of the bar contacts are triggering.

Have you tried fly away and then return to the Umbra with your transponder "OFF"?

Works for me.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: boggled on March 15, 2020, 09:58:25 AM
How the heck do I trigger the Lobster quest? Umbra in my playthrough is under the ownership of Blackrock and none of the bar contacts are triggering.

Sometimes if Umbra switches control or becomes decivilized it can take a while for the quest to appear in the bar. Also it won't show up if you use randomized core worlds.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: GeneralWaffles on March 15, 2020, 03:02:42 PM
So i found the mothership and nuked it with my exploration fleet, now i have two of the terraforming devices and I want to know how they work exactly since, i've seen that worlds revert if their is no terraforming structures on the planet, so will worlds revert if i use the device on them or will they stay as terran worlds?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: e on March 15, 2020, 07:03:00 PM
So i found the mothership and nuked it with my exploration fleet, now i have two of the terraforming devices and I want to know how they work exactly since, i've seen that worlds revert if their is no terraforming structures on the planet, so will worlds revert if i use the device on them or will they stay as terran worlds?

Worlds terraformed by Miller Urey don't revert.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: GeneralWaffles on March 16, 2020, 06:49:26 AM
So i found the mothership and nuked it with my exploration fleet, now i have two of the terraforming devices and I want to know how they work exactly since, i've seen that worlds revert if their is no terraforming structures on the planet, so will worlds revert if i use the device on them or will they stay as terran worlds?

Worlds terraformed by Miller Urey don't revert.

Alright thanks
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: Prolbo on March 30, 2020, 04:21:03 AM
Nice mod. I really like it. Hope so,eday it will become a part of vanilla functions.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: boggled on March 30, 2020, 05:16:07 AM
Nice mod. I really like it. Hope so,eday it will become a part of vanilla functions.

Thank you! I doubt terraforming will ever be implemented in vanilla, but if the developers did want to do so I would have no objection.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: Uhlang on March 30, 2020, 01:00:57 PM
A little suggestion in case you're starved for any: there's an "Abandoned Skyhook Anchor" floating around Loutron in the Al Gebbar system, and I feel like the ability to build your own skyhooks would make for a nice, lore-friendly way to increase accessibility.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: boggled on March 30, 2020, 02:18:11 PM
A little suggestion in case you're starved for any: there's an "Abandoned Skyhook Anchor" floating around Loutron in the Al Gebbar system, and I feel like the ability to build your own skyhooks would make for a nice, lore-friendly way to increase accessibility.

I've examined this idea before but always rejected it because the skyhook would clutter up the space near the planet.

Based on the large number of requests for this, perhaps I should look at implementing them anyway. A new idea I'm considering is to make them just a structure with no campaign layer presence. I could make them cost domain artifacts to maintain, and make the accessibility increase correspond with the gravity level on the planet. Maybe this could be a pseudo-terraforming option to deal with high gravity. Let me know what you think.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: Uhlang on March 30, 2020, 03:29:09 PM
I've examined this idea before but always rejected it because the skyhook would clutter up the space near the planet.

Based on the large number of requests for this, perhaps I should look at implementing them anyway. A new idea I'm considering is to make them just a structure with no campaign layer presence. I could make them cost domain artifacts to maintain, and make the accessibility increase correspond with the gravity level on the planet. Maybe this could be a pseudo-terraforming option to deal with high gravity. Let me know what you think.
I don't think the clutter would be any worse than what we already get with terraformed moons and their trilateral reflector arrangement. We even have it in vanilla with Eochu Bres. Its mirrors make it an infamously annoying place to set a course to. Though, I definitely won't insist on a visible skyhook.

When you say that skyhooks would have a greater effect based on gravity, I assume you mean that they would be in higher demand on high gravity worlds and thus have a larger accessibility bonus there, not that they would be fundamentally different somehow. That sounds good, but skyhooks are relatively primitive, so I don't see why they would need Domain artifacts. The one around Loutron doesn't seem like some fancy Domain supertech, and it supposedly worked fine before it was abandoned. I think it would be better to just allow their construction right from the start, if only to help all those poor souls who had many a paradise planet ruined by high gravity.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: boggled on March 30, 2020, 04:13:44 PM
I've examined this idea before but always rejected it because the skyhook would clutter up the space near the planet.

Based on the large number of requests for this, perhaps I should look at implementing them anyway. A new idea I'm considering is to make them just a structure with no campaign layer presence. I could make them cost domain artifacts to maintain, and make the accessibility increase correspond with the gravity level on the planet. Maybe this could be a pseudo-terraforming option to deal with high gravity. Let me know what you think.
I don't think the clutter would be any worse than what we already get with terraformed moons and their trilateral reflector arrangement. We even have it in vanilla with Eochu Bres. Its mirrors make it an infamously annoying place to set a course to. Though, I definitely won't insist on a visible skyhook.

When you say that skyhooks would have a greater effect based on gravity, I assume you mean that they would be in higher demand on high gravity worlds and thus have a larger accessibility bonus there, not that they would be fundamentally different somehow. That sounds good, but skyhooks are relatively primitive, so I don't see why they would need Domain artifacts. The one around Loutron doesn't seem like some fancy Domain supertech, and it supposedly worked fine before it was abandoned. I think it would be better to just allow their construction right from the start, if only to help all those poor souls who had many a paradise planet ruined by high gravity.

I meant that a world with high gravity will receive a much larger benefit from building a skyhook than a low gravity world where getting mass to orbit is already easy. I think the best way to represent this in-game is to make the skyhook provide a larger increase in accessibility for high gravity planets. I was thinking: +20% accessibility on low gravity worlds, +30% accessibility on normal worlds and +40% accessibility on high gravity worlds. The high gravity condition itself would be unchanged, but the accessibility penalty would be counteracted by the increased boost from the skyhook.

The domain artifacts will be produced by an industry (like food, metal, etc.) that can be built on worlds with ruins. Even if the artifact commodity demand isn't met, the player can still build those structures - they would just cost more credits to maintain. The fact that Loutron is the only location where a skyhook is found, and there are no operating ones in the Sector, support the idea that it was built using Domain industrial methods. Perhaps I will set the artifact commodity demand to one at all colony sizes so it could still be profitable to build one even if you don't have a domain artifact industry built yet.

In any event, the domain artifact industry will be completely optional, and people who don't want to use it can disable it in the settings file.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: McMuster on April 02, 2020, 08:53:04 AM
I like that you want to stick with Gravity and Tectonic Activity being "hard" market conditions. That actually fits the lore quite well as the absence of these on a barren world is what marked those barren worlds as "terraforming candidates" for the domain. Not every rock floating in space should be worth the investment.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: boggled on April 02, 2020, 10:23:36 AM
I like that you want to stick with Gravity and Tectonic Activity being "hard" market conditions. That actually fits the lore quite well as the absence of these on a barren world is what marked those barren worlds as "terraforming candidates" for the domain. Not every rock floating in space should be worth the investment.

My thoughts exactly.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: Eshir on April 02, 2020, 06:45:27 PM
I Found a MUD while i'm playing as pirates so i've got a pirate commision and i'm a governor of a colony and i can't use the MUD on it so how can i use the MUD on it then?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: boggled on April 02, 2020, 07:08:44 PM
I Found a MUD while i'm playing as pirates so i've got a pirate commision and i'm a governor of a colony and i can't use the MUD on it so how can i use the MUD on it then?

The MUD can only be used on player-faction controlled planets. I wasn't aware it was possible to gain control of a planet without it being part of the player faction. I'm working on a major update for this mod right now (hope to have it out within the next week or two), and I will include changes to account for this circumstance. Sorry!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: Kur0Shir0 on April 03, 2020, 03:56:06 AM
Just posting here for specifiying a bug I found with the skyhook anchor. It appear on some of my planets habitability bonus when I didn't actually build it (like, I never built it nowhere at the moment), and it doesn't seems to depend on planetary type or governor, didn't find it yet on AI controlled planet, but, maybe?

Also, I run on a session from when the mod was in 4.0.0, so maybe that's the cause of the bug, updated it recently to 4.0.2, but still it didn't appear on all my world. As it could easily pass unseen, I've prefered to still give you the information.

Btw, this mod is awesome, thanks. :D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: boggled on April 03, 2020, 05:19:06 AM
Just posting here for specifiying a bug I found with the skyhook anchor. It appear on some of my planets habitability bonus when I didn't actually build it (like, I never built it nowhere at the moment), and it doesn't seems to depend on planetary type or governor, didn't find it yet on AI controlled planet, but, maybe?

Also, I run on a session from when the mod was in 4.0.0, so maybe that's the cause of the bug, updated it recently to 4.0.2, but still it didn't appear on all my world. As it could easily pass unseen, I've prefered to still give you the information.

Btw, this mod is awesome, thanks. :D

I just did a quick test and I see that the skyhook accessibility bonus appears even if the skyhook is still under construction. I'll fix this in my next patch. I haven't seen the skyhook bonus appearing on planets where it was never even placed in the build queue. Give me a day or two to issue the patch, and if it still occurs after that please let me know.

FYI the skyhook is from my station construction mod, not the terraforming mod.

Thank you for letting me know about this!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: speeder on April 03, 2020, 11:51:18 AM
Can you make a "lite" version of your station mod so I am not obliged to use it to terraform desert planets? It adds too much OP stuff.

Also, can you use a certain vanilla tech to fix "meteorite impacts" ? That would be really useful :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: boggled on April 03, 2020, 12:12:33 PM
Can you make a "lite" version of your station mod so I am not obliged to use it to terraform desert planets? It adds too much OP stuff.

Also, can you use a certain vanilla tech to fix "meteorite impacts" ? That would be really useful :)

The station mod contains a settings file that can be used to disable any features you don't like.

I can't override default structures/industries without causing compatibility problems with other mods. I would direct that suggestion to the vanilla developers.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: grinningsphinx on April 04, 2020, 01:10:57 AM
Can you make a "lite" version of your station mod so I am not obliged to use it to terraform desert planets? It adds too much OP stuff.

Also, can you use a certain vanilla tech to fix "meteorite impacts" ? That would be really useful :)

You can get the planetary shield mod to give you a way to remove meteorite impacts. 

OP as in how? 
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: mora on April 04, 2020, 06:27:23 PM
I suggest removing tectonic activity when terraforming results in a water world. Not much land is left anyway, and the entry for tectonic activity also has its water world column blank (doesn't get picked?) should be a good enough reason. Having an option for it would be better.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: boggled on April 04, 2020, 07:46:10 PM
I suggest removing tectonic activity when terraforming results in a water world. Not much land is left anyway, and the entry for tectonic activity also has its water world column blank (doesn't get picked?) should be a good enough reason. Having an option for it would be better.

This has been discussed previously and it's my understanding that tectonics on a water world would likely create enormous waves that would contribute to hazard rating. However, there is an option to have the MUD remove tectonics if you want to get rid of it.

In the (soon to be released) terraforming rework, there will be an option to remove tectonics as well.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: mora on April 04, 2020, 08:10:55 PM
However, there is an option to have the MUD remove tectonics if you want to get rid of it.

Wouldn't this convert the world type into terran? I wanna keep my lobseters...
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: boggled on April 05, 2020, 07:33:40 AM
However, there is an option to have the MUD remove tectonics if you want to get rid of it.

Wouldn't this convert the world type into terran? I wanna keep my lobseters...

Yes, but lobsters get "grandfathered in" if you terraform a planet that already has them!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: Eshir on April 05, 2020, 12:47:50 PM
I Found a MUD while i'm playing as pirates so i've got a pirate commision and i'm a governor of a colony and i can't use the MUD on it so how can i use the MUD on it then?

The MUD can only be used on player-faction controlled planets. I wasn't aware it was possible to gain control of a planet without it being part of the player faction. I'm working on a major update for this mod right now (hope to have it out within the next week or two), and I will include changes to account for this circumstance. Sorry!

Thank you for your hard work! can't wait to see what other cool things you do!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: mora on April 05, 2020, 03:29:25 PM
Yes, but lobsters get "grandfathered in" if you terraform a planet that already has them!

Glad to hear that, haven't tested it because it takes 12 months to terraform.(You can change that as well but I was lazy)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: Kobura on April 05, 2020, 04:29:26 PM
I completed the lobster quest and don't know what's left to do about it. I have a water planet with aquaculture already (pre-existing)

*edit* Forgive me. Derp.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: Abraxas on April 07, 2020, 07:45:14 AM
I have a desert planet I am shading, and it says: The effort is stalled because there is not enough water-ice.  Build a Drone Control Nexus on an orbital station in this system.  I do not see the option to build it at all.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: Mondaymonkey on April 07, 2020, 08:13:22 AM
Quote
I have a desert planet I am shading, and it says: The effort is stalled because there is not enough water-ice.  Build a Drone Control Nexus on an orbital station in this system.  I do not see the option to build it at all.

You need one of two:

1. Colonize water rich type of planet in that system (water-covered, frozen, cryovolcanic) if any exist. Build Ismara slingshot. Wait.

2. Have a Player Station Construction (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=17094.0) mod. Warning! Can be installed without starting new game, but not removed. Construct any station and build a drone control nexus there. Wait.

You should be aware, there are special conditions to build stations, and it is probably better to read initial post and customize setting file of station construction mod before launching. You may not need all the content from there, or you may activate some additional features, like cramped environment.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: Abraxas on April 07, 2020, 08:25:58 AM
Quote
I have a desert planet I am shading, and it says: The effort is stalled because there is not enough water-ice.  Build a Drone Control Nexus on an orbital station in this system.  I do not see the option to build it at all.

You need one of two:

1. Colonize water rich type of planet in that system (water-covered, frozen, cryovolcanic) if any exist. Build Ismara slingshot. Wait.

2. Have a Player Station Construction (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=17094.0) mod. Warning! Can be installed without starting new game, but not removed. Construct any station and build a drone control nexus there. Wait.

You should be aware, there are special conditions to build stations, and it is probably better to read initial post and customize setting file of station construction mod before launching. You may not need all the content from there, or you may activate some additional features, like cramped environment.

Good to know!  And I will take a look at it.  Wish I could upvote your reply.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v4.0.2)
Post by: Mondaymonkey on April 07, 2020, 08:37:38 AM
You better upvote Boggled. Both mods are his children.

Besides, he is planning to merge them into one, so checking PSC features are good idea in any case.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod
Post by: GigaVivian on July 20, 2020, 06:21:00 PM
Hold on plz do not delete this page (yet) as the version checker of past versions/this mod, Still link to this page. I would have been confused and had to find the new mod I need to get(and figure out which mod had its page deleted, since the Version Checker opens all mods with updates at once). And I'm pretty sure any other users of this older version would have had the same trouble.