Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => Mods => Topic started by: Yunru on October 08, 2019, 01:54:11 PM

Title: [0.9.1a] Common Drops 1.1 - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Yunru on October 08, 2019, 01:54:11 PM
This is a simple mod that adds individual blueprints for all ships, weapons and fighters that are part of a blueprint package but don't have their own rare drop. Unlike the rare drops, however, these are much easier to acquire.
For when you really want your faction to only use specific ships, look to Common Drops.

Changelog:
1.1 - Decreased price of common blueprints.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Yunru on October 12, 2019, 07:58:16 AM
If anyone wants compatibility with a ship pack, just post a link. As long as the ship pack has it's own blueprint, it should be easy to add.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Avanitia on October 12, 2019, 10:22:16 PM
Shouldn't compability with your mod be discussed with creator of that particular mod first?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Yunru on October 13, 2019, 04:09:39 AM
Shouldn't compability with your mod be discussed with creator of that particular mod first?
That is a viewpoint I have never understood.
If I want to make my mod compatible with another, that's solely my perogative (unless it would require modifying their works), no?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Vex2 on October 13, 2019, 04:36:27 AM
Shouldn't compability with your mod be discussed with creator of that particular mod first?
That is a viewpoint I have never understood.
If I want to make my mod compatible with another, that's solely my perogative (unless it would require modifying their works), no?

1st, its a courtesy thing.
2nd, probably because certain mods have some things they like keeping unobtainable or exceptionally rare.
3rd, sometimes people just don't like folk doing things with their stuff, especially if they never asked.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Yunru on October 13, 2019, 05:15:47 AM
It's also a courtesy to ask people if they want to stay for dinner. But, just like asking them to dinner, asking their opinion is pointless as it does not concern them. Or should the author of a weapon mod consult every ship mod author as a courtesy?

As for your second point, while I agree as a generality, in this case those sort of ships are already excluded. The only common drops are ships that are part of a blueprint, aren't rare drops, and lack no_drop after all.

The third point ties into my first point and previous post: It doesn't alter their stuff, it doesn't concern them.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Avanitia on October 13, 2019, 04:40:15 PM
Shouldn't compability with your mod be discussed with creator of that particular mod first?
That is a viewpoint I have never understood.
If I want to make my mod compatible with another, that's solely my perogative (unless it would require modifying their works), no?

You're affecting how other mods work - similar to Vesperon Combine, or Nexerelin, both of which are opt-in, meaning that if modder wants to make theirs compatible with yours, they can do it. If they don't want your mod affecting theirs, they don't have to do anything.

It's also a courtesy to ask people if they want to stay for dinner. But, just like asking them to dinner, asking their opinion is pointless as it does not concern them. Or should the author of a weapon mod consult every ship mod author as a courtesy?

As for your second point, while I agree as a generality, in this case those sort of ships are already excluded. The only common drops are ships that are part of a blueprint, aren't rare drops, and lack no_drop after all.

The third point ties into my first point and previous post: It doesn't alter their stuff, it doesn't concern them.

In some mods, there are very rare packages containing very powerful ships, weapons, fighters - for example Tahlan Shipworks contains at least one. And yes, they are supposed to drop, making a run in which you can use these things special.

By that extension - you're affecting other mods. Your mod uses any packages that drop, so you're affecting other mods, by making contents of these packages common, when they shouldn't be.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: DatonKallandor on October 13, 2019, 05:39:23 PM
By that extension - you're affecting other mods. Your mod uses any packages that drop, so you're affecting other mods, by making contents of these packages common, when they shouldn't be.

That's frankly an insane leap. He's not forcing anyone to use his mod. The people that don't want these easier blueprints can simply not use this mod.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Sozzer on October 13, 2019, 07:20:57 PM
inb4 someone makes something to prevent this mod from affecting their mod.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: MesoTroniK on October 13, 2019, 08:09:29 PM
That is trivial to do but I hope it never comes to that.

Anyways, I think a lot of folks here are missing the point. Crimson Sky Gaurdian, many modders would probably be totally fine with what this mod does to their work if you made them "compatible" (that really is horrible terminology and not fitting at all), so why not just ask them if you ever want to modify their mods?

Also comparing what this mod does to ship and weapon mods is intellectually dishonest *at best* and a horrible deflection. Also, care to explain Crimson Sky Gaurdian how directly modifying the results other mods produce with their content "does not alter their stuff and doesn't concern them"?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Morgan Rue on October 13, 2019, 09:11:49 PM
Hasn't this conversation happened already with Vesperon Combine? Or at least, something close enough.
http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=14915.0

Would it be possible for you to make blueprint packages 'unpack' into these individual blueprints instead of giving them common drops? That would fix any 'compatibility' issues if you made it sufficiently robust.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Dreamyr on October 13, 2019, 10:57:18 PM
I mostly lurk here but honestly this is pushing my buttons one too many times.

From what I've experienced and read on this board this modding community is one of the most TOXIC I have ever encountered. They act like any mod that might possibly affect the "artistic vision" of their mod is some horrible thing that can't be tolerated and one of you has flat out threatened a lawsuit against another modder who made a mod that did a similar thing as this one. I understand wanting to protect something you've poured dozens if not hundreds of hours into but acting like a bunch of paranoid Gollums does nothing but hurt the community. I don't know if it's even registered with most of you but when this kind of thing happens with the pretty much implied threat that if you guys don't get your way you may "take your toys and go home" so to speak it stifles other modders who are afraid of stepping on your toes for fear of the backlash of the players who enjoy your mods dogpiling them. This is a blatant and clearcut issue of using peer pressure to control what other people may make.

There is a difference between someone making a mod that affects a broad change that will affect other mods and someone say for example taking someone else's mod wholesale, readjusting the flux values of the ships in it and reuploading it. In the former case you are chasing someone out of the sandbox because they built a bridge over the moat around your castle. The latter case you would be justified in that person being punished or having their content removed as it would be akin to them adding something to your sand castle without permission. To extend the analogy even further the modders need to remember as well this is not their Sandbox, it's Alex's. It is not your perogative to decide what is and is not acceptable.

The solution to this problem I feel is that Alex/members of the moderation team need to get together and set down a set of guidelines on what is acceptable in broad strokes for modders to do when it interacts with other mods and what they need to seek permission from other modders whose content they affect.

As noted this is not the first time this sort of thing has happened and with the rising popularity of the game (Sseth's video having reached just shy of 1.5 MILLION views) it will not be the last and I expect it will increase in frequency in the future as more people discover this game and desire to contribute to its modding community.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Tartiflette on October 14, 2019, 12:22:25 AM
I too think the default behavior should be that individual blueprints are the default and ship packs are exceedingly rare and valuable. So I really like the idea behind this mod. Although I would like if there was some options in the mod to set the drop rates so that the rare blueprints get more common, but not just too common.

This mod is fine in the way it works right now. But to properly integrate with other mods it should have a merged list for modders to add their own stuff, instead of relying on a curated file that will get obsolete fast.

Some modders might be quick to jump to their guns when stuff like that are said
Quote
If anyone wants compatibility with a ship pack, just post a link
for various reasons (including genuine problems it could cause), but in the end a merged list maintained by the individual modders ensure the maximum compatibility with the widest array of mods, and the minimum amount of work for everyone involved, including you Crimson Skies Gaurdian.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: SCC on October 14, 2019, 12:46:09 AM
I feel it's unfair to demand catering to other mods, if this mod doesn't actually do anything to other mods. It changes mechanics that other mods also use, but the purpose is expressly stated and isn't specific to any mod or vanilla faction or design type. It changes how the game is played, and how other mods affect the gameplay as well, but at the same time, this is the express purpose of this mod and you have to go out of your way to get it, and finally, every other mod does the same thing, just to a different (smaller or greater) degree, even if they don't necessarily have similar contents.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Tartiflette on October 14, 2019, 01:08:27 AM
Right now the mod doesn't even change the drop rates of other mods at all, it only changes vanilla drops.

If the author wants to affect mods (and they have mentioned such intention), then a merged list that every modder can add to from their own mods is the quickest, safest and most open way to do it. It's not even a matter of "safeguarding the integrity of other mods", it just ensure the best compatibility outcome with the widest array of mods, it requires the least amount of work to maintain such compatibility, it prevents unintended game-breaking bugs, and if players want to tweak something to their liking, they can still do it exactly the same way.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Sozzer on October 14, 2019, 01:30:37 AM
I mostly lurk here but honestly this is pushing my buttons one too many times.

From what I've experienced and read on this board this modding community is one of the most TOXIC I have ever encountered. They act like any mod that might possibly affect the "artistic vision" of their mod is some horrible thing that can't be tolerated and one of you has flat out threatened a lawsuit against another modder who made a mod that did a similar thing as this one. I understand wanting to protect something you've poured dozens if not hundreds of hours into but acting like a bunch of paranoid Gollums does nothing but hurt the community. I don't know if it's even registered with most of you but when this kind of thing happens with the pretty much implied threat that if you guys don't get your way you may "take your toys and go home" so to speak it stifles other modders who are afraid of stepping on your toes for fear of the backlash of the players who enjoy your mods dogpiling them. This is a blatant and clearcut issue of using peer pressure to control what other people may make.

There is a difference between someone making a mod that affects a broad change that will affect other mods and someone say for example taking someone else's mod wholesale, readjusting the flux values of the ships in it and reuploading it. In the former case you are chasing someone out of the sandbox because they built a bridge over the moat around your castle. The latter case you would be justified in that person being punished or having their content removed as it would be akin to them adding something to your sand castle without permission. To extend the analogy even further the modders need to remember as well this is not their Sandbox, it's Alex's. It is not your perogative to decide what is and is not acceptable.

The solution to this problem I feel is that Alex/members of the moderation team need to get together and set down a set of guidelines on what is acceptable in broad strokes for modders to do when it interacts with other mods and what they need to seek permission from other modders whose content they affect.

As noted this is not the first time this sort of thing has happened and with the rising popularity of the game (Sseth's video having reached just shy of 1.5 MILLION views) it will not be the last and I expect it will increase in frequency in the future as more people discover this game and desire to contribute to its modding community.


[war flashbacks to gregtech intentionally bricking the game with certain mods in MC, people setting their mods to private because of a single banal comment on the skyrim nexus, that entire subforum of cancer hidden on the nexus forums]
ah yes
starsector's modding community sure is toxic
telling people to just ask before making addons, or otherwise affecting their work
how h o r r i b l e
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Yunru on October 14, 2019, 01:40:08 AM
Wow, this exploded overnight (not that I'm complaining about the attention *inner attention *** preens* :P ).

I'd like to ask this as well, because it's a real sticking point for me:
I could if just scripted some java to add tags to every appropriate ship, and no one would say I have to ask permission to post it, courtesy or otherwise.
But I abandoned that path when I realised it would just blanket add them, and that a human mind would be needed to first analyse the context.

So answer me this: Why does making my mod respect other mods more mean I suddenly need their permission?

The answer to my mind is "it doesn't" of course, hence my honest confusion.

Edit: Reading through the first page of the linked Vesper Combine it seems people would complain, which to me is madness.
No-one's forcing the author to use the mod, and no-one should be able to decide what mods a user wants to run.

Edit 2: To address the merge csv thing: I considered it, but I'd also want to adjust the weighting of vanilla (kinda) common drops, least it crowd out the other possibilities.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: NoFoodAfterMidnight on October 14, 2019, 01:53:03 AM
So an actual comment about the mod itself for a change: This mod seems to just dilute drop tables pretty significantly, resulting in you getting the large blueprint packages and rare blueprints far less often, and doesn't increase the drop rate of blueprints themselves for the most part. I think you can modify the chances of getting the packages by adding the package entry which overrides it's original entry, changing it's weight.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Yunru on October 14, 2019, 02:01:59 AM
So an actual comment about the mod itself for a change: This mod seems to just dilute drop tables pretty significantly, resulting in you getting the large blueprint packages and rare blueprints far less often, and doesn't increase the drop rate of blueprints themselves for the most part. I think you can modify the chances of getting the packages by adding the package entry which overrides it's original entry, changing it's weight.
It's a bit of a work-around, I'll admit. Initially I was going to have a java script add a blueprint tag to every relevant ship and then just have the one csv entry per drop group. But to avoid breaking stuff from other mods that went by the wayside, and to avoid causing work for other modders I opted against a blacklist system.

So now there's a csv entry for each blueprint for each drop group, unless it would be a blank one.

Although even then, blueprints would have to get rarer, as the drop groups are a weighted list, so adding a more common drop will make the others more rare.

Edit: On reflection, I could decrease the chance of dropping nothing (where present) to make everything more frequent.

I might also make a twin mod which only replaces nothing drops with common drops, but I'll have to think about that.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Yunru on October 14, 2019, 02:14:40 AM
Anyways, I think a lot of folks here are missing the point. Crimson Sky Gaurdian, many modders would probably be totally fine with what this mod does to their work if you made them "compatible" (that really is horrible terminology and not fitting at all), so why not just ask them if you ever want to modify their mods?
Oh rest assured, any modification to someone else's mod would never go public without their consent.

Quote
Also comparing what this mod does to ship and weapon mods is intellectually dishonest *at best* and a horrible deflection. Also, care to explain Crimson Sky Gaurdian how directly modifying the results other mods produce with their content "does not alter their stuff and doesn't concern them"?
The same way a weapon mod doesn't. You can fit the new weapon on their ship and it "directly [modifies] the results of other mods" especially if the AI's auto fit did it.
But just like a weapon mod, none of their files are touched, none of their code is modified. Whether the user decides to run this mod with another is up to the user, no-one else.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Yunru on October 14, 2019, 02:24:31 AM
Would it be possible for you to make blueprint packages 'unpack' into these individual blueprints instead of giving them common drops? That would fix any 'compatibility' issues if you made it sufficiently robust.
No, no it would not, sorry. I lack the java skills for now (especially since I'd have to actively change how something already works, rather than just appending something to it).

I will, however, keep it in mind. If someone doesn't beat me to it, I'll eventually get around to it.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Yunru on October 14, 2019, 02:30:15 AM
Although I would like if there was some options in the mod to set the drop rates so that the rare blueprints get more common, but not just too common.
If you have excel or libre office calc, feel free to play around with the drop_groups.csv, both for the mod and vanilla. You'd have to either decrease the chance of nothing drops to make everything more frequent, or just the common drops to make them less common.

Unfortunately as it contains no java files, I can't add a nice easy config (although given how mangled it is atm to avoid compatibility issues, it wouldn't be easy even then).

The weighting is further complicated by there being two types of drops: one which matches a value (and will keep adding items until that value is met), and one which just rolls a set number of times on a list.
If an event calls for the former, you either get a package, or the cash-equivalent amount in common blueprints. If the event is the latter however, you could get a package, or just one blueprint.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Tartiflette on October 14, 2019, 02:59:29 AM
Quote from: Crimson Sky Gaurdian
Edit: Reading through the first page of the linked Vesper Combine it seems people would complain, which to me is madness.
No-one's forcing the author to use the mod, and no-one should be able to decide what mods a user wants to run.
You should read a few more pages because you'll quickly see how mod authors actually wanted to make their mod compatible with Vesperon Combine, but the method used first wasn't letting them do it and instead was introducing unsolvable issues for them (as well as not working the way the author imagined it would).

To me personally it's less about asking permission and more about letting individual modders handle the compatibility so that they can ensure it is bug free with the specific inner working of their mod.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Yunru on October 14, 2019, 03:45:12 AM
To me personally it's less about asking permission and more about letting individual modders handle the compatibility so that they can ensure it is bug free with the specific inner working of their mod.
Right, and I want that. Less work for me? Beautiful.
But there's only two ways that can reasonably be achieved (and really they're only one):
1. Relist every affected vanilla ship with the originally planned common_bp tag. Then have one drop listed per grouping. That way adding more to the group doesn't change the ratios. This isn't really an option because relisting all those ships breaks compatibility with any mod that alters them.
2. Have a java file that dynamically adds the common_bp tag (either to vanilla ships, or to all ships that lack a blacklist tag of some sort). This would be my preferred option, but I don't know enough java for it.

Hence I'm currently dealing with option 3: Do it all manually and adjust the numbers for every case.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Tartiflette on October 14, 2019, 03:55:58 AM
I can certainly relate to that, I started modding without knowing anything about coding in general and it was a pain at first. You should consider joining the Discord: there is a dedicated channel there to ask for code tips and help. Plus you would be able to test things with other modders quickly.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Yunru on October 14, 2019, 05:07:43 AM
Something I've noticed is that single blueprints are massively more valuable than packs. For instance, the Buffalo (A) blueprint has a value of ~26k, while the Hegemony Auxiliary Pack has a value of 20k.

I'm guessing this is to inflate the value of rare drops, but it obviously causes a problem here.

Would like suggestions on how to go about addressing it.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Dreamyr on October 14, 2019, 11:06:54 AM
I mostly lurk here but honestly this is pushing my buttons one too many times.

From what I've experienced and read on this board this modding community is one of the most TOXIC I have ever encountered. They act like any mod that might possibly affect the "artistic vision" of their mod is some horrible thing that can't be tolerated and one of you has flat out threatened a lawsuit against another modder who made a mod that did a similar thing as this one. I understand wanting to protect something you've poured dozens if not hundreds of hours into but acting like a bunch of paranoid Gollums does nothing but hurt the community. I don't know if it's even registered with most of you but when this kind of thing happens with the pretty much implied threat that if you guys don't get your way you may "take your toys and go home" so to speak it stifles other modders who are afraid of stepping on your toes for fear of the backlash of the players who enjoy your mods dogpiling them. This is a blatant and clearcut issue of using peer pressure to control what other people may make.

There is a difference between someone making a mod that affects a broad change that will affect other mods and someone say for example taking someone else's mod wholesale, readjusting the flux values of the ships in it and reuploading it. In the former case you are chasing someone out of the sandbox because they built a bridge over the moat around your castle. The latter case you would be justified in that person being punished or having their content removed as it would be akin to them adding something to your sand castle without permission. To extend the analogy even further the modders need to remember as well this is not their Sandbox, it's Alex's. It is not your perogative to decide what is and is not acceptable.

The solution to this problem I feel is that Alex/members of the moderation team need to get together and set down a set of guidelines on what is acceptable in broad strokes for modders to do when it interacts with other mods and what they need to seek permission from other modders whose content they affect.

As noted this is not the first time this sort of thing has happened and with the rising popularity of the game (Sseth's video having reached just shy of 1.5 MILLION views) it will not be the last and I expect it will increase in frequency in the future as more people discover this game and desire to contribute to its modding community.


[war flashbacks to gregtech intentionally bricking the game with certain mods in MC, people setting their mods to private because of a single banal comment on the skyrim nexus, that entire subforum of cancer hidden on the nexus forums]
ah yes
starsector's modding community sure is toxic
telling people to just ask before making addons, or otherwise affecting their work
how h o r r i b l e

I guess I should be thankful then that I never got into Skyrim or visit Nexus Mods much. I also didn't state that it was "The most toxic mod community ever" I said that it was the most Toxic I had personally encountered. I am unsurprised there are other worse communities out there but it does not change the fact that this community when it comes to certain ideas or concepts in modding is toxic. The fact that you are trying to go "Well there's worse communities out there so this is fine" is disingenious at best and outright malevolent at worst.

I have no problem with modders protecting their work from being copied or misused by others. I have a problem with modders using that as a excuse to dictate what other people can and can not do with the game. It's also extremely hypocritical. I don't see modders having to go ask Alex whether or not they can change a specific thing in the base game. So why is it okay for modders to insist the same?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: NoFoodAfterMidnight on October 14, 2019, 12:36:44 PM
Something I've noticed is that single blueprints are massively more valuable than packs. For instance, the Buffalo (A) blueprint has a value of ~26k, while the Hegemony Auxiliary Pack has a value of 20k.

I'm guessing this is to inflate the value of rare drops, but it obviously causes a problem here.

Would like suggestions on how to go about addressing it.

Both the blueprints you're adding and the rare blueprints are technically the same item, and their value is based on the price of the ship/weapon/wing the blueprint is for set in the plugin for that item. You could make another plugin from "com.fs.starfarer.api.campaign.impl.items.ShipBlueprintItemPlugin", change the way the price is determined, and create a new item in special_items.csv pointing to your new plugin. Then add that item to the drop tables instead. That plugin should be able to be put into your mod like any other plugin.

Changing the value of the BP packs is also an option, it won't affect the value of the singles.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Yunru on October 14, 2019, 01:26:20 PM
Both the blueprints you're adding and the rare blueprints are technically the same item, and their value is based on the price of the ship/weapon/wing the blueprint is for set in the plugin for that item. You could make another plugin from "com.fs.starfarer.api.campaign.impl.items.ShipBlueprintItemPlugin", change the way the price is determined, and create a new item in special_items.csv pointing to your new plugin. Then add that item to the drop tables instead. That plugin should be able to be put into your mod like any other plugin.
Making another plugin was unnecessary, all I had to do was make another template item and give it a different tag. But thanks for pointing me in the right direction!

Uploading version 1.1 now.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops 1.1 - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: NoFoodAfterMidnight on October 14, 2019, 01:40:01 PM
And that changed the pricing of it?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops 1.1 - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Yunru on October 14, 2019, 01:52:51 PM
And that changed the pricing of it?
A little, as the price was determined based on both the item and the template.
Common ship blueprints are now 10000 credits cheaper, for instance.

It's still not enough to make the packages anything but silly-cheap priced, but I may just bite that bullet and increase their price too.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops 1.1 - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: MesoTroniK on October 14, 2019, 07:06:02 PM
Crimson Sky Gaurdian, I want to apologize for my initial post. I read a bit too closely into what you said and misinterpreted it and was entirely my fault.

The same way a weapon mod doesn't. You can fit the new weapon on their ship and it "directly [modifies] the results of other mods" especially if the AI's auto fit did it.
But just like a weapon mod, none of their files are touched, none of their code is modified. Whether the user decides to run this mod with another is up to the user, no-one else.
Eh, just to make it clear here. What weapons a mod faction uses can through autofit in fact be controlled. And as to your second point, yea that was my bad as said earlier in this message as long as stuff is done on permission only and you said that was the plan earlier so you are good man :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops 1.1 - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: TheOSB320 on October 14, 2019, 09:37:14 PM
Hey, I think I might be *** but where exactly do I download this at? I don't see a download link.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops 1.1 - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Yunru on October 15, 2019, 02:40:54 AM
Crimson Sky Gaurdian, I want to apologize for my initial post. I read a bit too closely into what you said and misinterpreted it and was entirely my fault.
Ah it's fine, these things happen. Not like you shot an arch-duke or anything.
Hey, I think I might be *** but where exactly do I download this at? I don't see a download link.
It's attached to the first post.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops 1.1 - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Damienov on October 15, 2019, 04:14:48 AM
Hey, I think I might be *** but where exactly do I download this at? I don't see a download link.

You'll need to be logged in to see the attachment download link
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: TrainDodger on December 02, 2019, 10:28:23 AM
By that extension - you're affecting other mods. Your mod uses any packages that drop, so you're affecting other mods, by making contents of these packages common, when they shouldn't be.

*gets blueprints for Blade Breaker Sparrowhawk*

*builds 1000 of them*

*stocks up every allied station with like ten Sparrowhawks*

*rubs mayonnaise all over my own body*

Ahh, it’s time to get greasy!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Harmful Mechanic on December 02, 2019, 11:16:39 AM
By that extension - you're affecting other mods. Your mod uses any packages that drop, so you're affecting other mods, by making contents of these packages common, when they shouldn't be.

*gets blueprints for Blade Breaker Sparrowhawk*

*builds 1000 of them*

*stocks up every allied station with like ten Sparrowhawks*

*rubs mayonnaise all over my own body*

Ahh, it’s time to get greasy!

You realize I'm going to have to make massive changes to my endgame plans now that the secret's out, right?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: iamlenb on December 02, 2019, 12:20:13 PM
By that extension - you're affecting other mods. Your mod uses any packages that drop, so you're affecting other mods, by making contents of these packages common, when they shouldn't be.

*gets blueprints for Blade Breaker Sparrowhawk*

*builds 1000 of them*

*stocks up every allied station with like ten Sparrowhawks*

*rubs mayonnaise all over my own body*

Ahh, it’s time to get greasy!

You realize I'm going to have to make massive changes to my endgame plans now that the secret's out, right?

Change your Miracle Whip Mayonnaise commodity to French's Mustard.  Spike the demand on TrainDodger colonies and profit from your secret backstock of mayo?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: TrainDodger on December 02, 2019, 05:16:46 PM
By that extension - you're affecting other mods. Your mod uses any packages that drop, so you're affecting other mods, by making contents of these packages common, when they shouldn't be.

*gets blueprints for Blade Breaker Sparrowhawk*

*builds 1000 of them*

*stocks up every allied station with like ten Sparrowhawks*

*rubs mayonnaise all over my own body*

Ahh, it’s time to get greasy!

You realize I'm going to have to make massive changes to my endgame plans now that the secret's out, right?

That wouldn’t even be the most broken ship I ever obtained in Starsector, tbh. I once had a Neutrino Unsung with purloined Knights Templar lasers and the old-school, pre-nerf Pilums. Every battle was literally Enter Field > Launch giant Pilum salvo > Watch almost everything die immediately > Mop up the rest in a close-range slugout. It wasn’t even a battle. It was an execution.

The game has way better balance nowadays, even with mods. And frankly, I think it’s impressive how well people have managed to get their mods to work together as part of the same ecosystem without breaking the game too much. True power is harder to obtain than before. My current fleet has a couple Mayasuran Navy Elite Javanicus Battlecruisers that are festooned with a mix of Blackrock, Diable, and DME weapons, and a mix of BB Deserter ships for support. Blueprint hunting can be painful if you have OCD like me and wish you had a full library of blueprints, but on the other hand, it can be very fulfilling when you arrange deep-space expeditions just to hunt down hidden caches and colonize worlds with ruins just for blueprints, and when you get that blueprint that you know is “the one”, you’ve just got to manufacture a few of them.

Some people complain that Blade Breaker Deserter ships aren’t as OP as actual Blade Breakers, but I think that’s frankly underestimating their potential in the right hands, with the right loadouts. They are very robust little destroyers and cruisers and such, and form an excellent screening fence around larger capitals, but they’re expensive to maintain until you get to the super-late game and can afford 15/day on supplies no problem. I wish they had a combat capital, a logistics ship/freighter, and an electronic warfare ship, though. Then, a whole faction could be sustained quite well on nothing but Deserter hulls.

Anyway, I don’t really feel the need to make obtaining blueprints super-easy. For the completionists, there’s an NG+ mod that lets you start over while keeping all obtained blueprints. That seems right up my alley. Because, honestly, I love the thrill of surveying distant worlds and hunting for research stations and derelicts while keeping an eye on supplies and avoiding running dry and stranding myself tens of light years from the frontier. I’m not even kidding.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops 1.1 - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Sethfcm on December 05, 2019, 04:10:57 PM
Just wanted to chip in that I agree, the author isn't in the wrong for making a mod like this, and honestly peoples visceral reactions can be off-putting as H**l sometimes.

That said, I'm glad this seems to have been settled civilly.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops 1.1 - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Rafs on December 16, 2019, 02:31:12 PM
Another mod that makes it easier for me to get the tech I want and that has devolved into a cancerous discussion.

Like other's pointed out this affects BPs, which are a vanilla feature nothing modded, so it doesn't directly affect any mods that really don't want some of their stuff being replicated (like IBB bounty ships), personally gona use the crap out of it since Vespirion Combine is not in a playable state atm and I am sick of exploring the whole sector and finding about 40% of the games BPs, and hopefully modders add support for this mod, awesome work Crimson Sky Guardian you are a life saver for my tech hungry playthroughs.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops 1.1 - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: shpooky on December 17, 2019, 11:53:05 PM
Another mod that makes it easier for me to get the tech I want and that has devolved into a cancerous discussion.

Like other's pointed out this affects BPs, which are a vanilla feature nothing modded, so it doesn't directly affect any mods that really don't want some of their stuff being replicated (like IBB bounty ships), personally gona use the crap out of it since Vespirion Combine is not in a playable state atm and I am sick of exploring the whole sector and finding about 40% of the games BPs, and hopefully modders add support for this mod, awesome work Crimson Sky Guardian you are a life saver for my tech hungry playthroughs.
Vespirion Combine is not playable ?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops 1.1 - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Rafs on December 18, 2019, 09:36:02 AM
Another mod that makes it easier for me to get the tech I want and that has devolved into a cancerous discussion.

Like other's pointed out this affects BPs, which are a vanilla feature nothing modded, so it doesn't directly affect any mods that really don't want some of their stuff being replicated (like IBB bounty ships), personally gona use the crap out of it since Vespirion Combine is not in a playable state atm and I am sick of exploring the whole sector and finding about 40% of the games BPs, and hopefully modders add support for this mod, awesome work Crimson Sky Guardian you are a life saver for my tech hungry playthroughs.
Vespirion Combine is not playable ?

There have been reported bugs of the person you need to talk to not showing up after you talk to them the first time, and being extremely rare in the first place, from what I heard the mod author doesn't plan on releasing an hotfix and is only gona fix it in the next batch of changes, and from what I saw it's not out yet? Unless I am mistaken, but yea I mean you can try, but for me that is not a playable state.

More to the point since this is getting off topic, is there a way to teak the drop rates myself in the mod settings? Personally not really looking for a balanced mod, I just want to get BPs since I am running a heavily modded game (47 mods 14 of which are factions) and it's increasingly hard for me to find what I want with that much content being pushed in the galaxy.

Side note: It seems I can't exchange most of BPs with Prism Freeport, not sure if vanilla behavior or introduced by this mod.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops 1.1 - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Nanao-kun on December 19, 2019, 09:28:13 AM
Can confirm, blueprints from this mod can't be exchanged at Prism Freeport.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops 1.1 - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Yunru on December 20, 2019, 01:52:15 PM
And I am back from meditating far away from humanity (my bed) for 40 days and 40 nights!

More to the point since this is getting off topic, is there a way to teak the drop rates myself in the mod settings? Personally not really looking for a balanced mod, I just want to get BPs since I am running a heavily modded game (47 mods 14 of which are factions) and it's increasingly hard for me to find what I want with that much content being pushed in the galaxy.

Side note: It seems I can't exchange most of BPs with Prism Freeport, not sure if vanilla behavior or introduced by this mod.

If you navigate to the data/campaign/procgen folder of this mod you can alter the rates in the drop-groups file.

You can't exchange them at Prism Freeport because they use a different item type than regular blueprints.

I would address this, but I'm actually retiring this mod for one that lets you just "unpack" packages instead. It still has compatibility problems, but far less and they're far easier to resolve.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops 1.1 - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Cyan Leader on December 20, 2019, 06:26:03 PM
I'll drop in to agree with something I read earlier, diluting drop pools is a real issue. If you're directly impacting how the game rewards players for exploring, there is a risk of making the rewards worse and rare item rarer.   
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops 1.1 - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Chewzie on January 26, 2020, 12:06:01 AM
I'm actually retiring this mod for one that lets you just "unpack" packages instead.
It is not released yet?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops 1.1 - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Yunru on June 08, 2020, 03:37:06 PM
It is not released yet?
It hasn't no, but here, shhh.
(If a mod adds a new blueprint package, you'll have to modify it to use this function yourself.)

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops 1.1 - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: MrFluffster on June 09, 2020, 01:37:33 AM
I highly recommend hosting your mod on an external site(github, bitbucket, mega, google drive, anything) as it's inconvenient for potential mod users to keep it an attachment.

Also iirc attachments are periodically purged globally so they're only good for short term hosting.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops 1.1 - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
Post by: Yunru on June 13, 2020, 11:00:38 AM
I highly recommend hosting your mod on an external site(github, bitbucket, mega, google drive, anything) as it's inconvenient for potential mod users to keep it an attachment.

Also iirc attachments are periodically purged globally so they're only good for short term hosting.
I don't believe a bare minimum of community interaction is an unfair gating condition.
The periodic purge, however, is most concerning.