Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => General Discussion => Topic started by: CMDR_Nomad on July 30, 2019, 07:28:44 PM

Title: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: CMDR_Nomad on July 30, 2019, 07:28:44 PM
I'm using a high resolution screen screen as of this moment, it is pretty annoying that the game doesn't have a ui scaling option(or maybe their is?). I have to downgrade the resolution to a lower volume. Just want to know anyone having the same problem? Is there any third party software to use to scale the UI?
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: Alex on July 30, 2019, 10:04:01 PM
Hi there! If you've got a 4k monitor, I'd recommend running in fullscreen at half the native resolution of your monitor. I'd like to eventually look at supporting this within the game, but it'd amount to... well, basically the same thing, with worse performance (because it'd be outputting extra pixels, compared to just using a lower resolution), but would work in windowed mode (which would be the point of doing that in the first place).

(If you're wondering, only scaling the UI and not the rest of the game is not a good option, since the rest of the game is also designed to work well within a certain range of resolutions, from graphics assets to zoom levels/scales etc, and that does not include 4k. In-between resolutions such as 2560x1600 are kind of in an awkward spot; some people find those playable in native; personally I'd still run fullscreen at a reduced resolution in that case.)
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: CMDR_Nomad on July 31, 2019, 06:25:23 AM
Hi there! If you've got a 4k monitor, I'd recommend running in fullscreen at half the native resolution of your monitor. I'd like to eventually look at supporting this within the game, but it'd amount to... well, basically the same thing, with worse performance (because it'd be outputting extra pixels, compared to just using a lower resolution), but would work in windowed mode (which would be the point of doing that in the first place).

(If you're wondering, only scaling the UI and not the rest of the game is not a good option, since the rest of the game is also designed to work well within a certain range of resolutions, from graphics assets to zoom levels/scales etc, and that does not include 4k. In-between resolutions such as 2560x1600 are kind of in an awkward spot; some people find those playable in native; personally I'd still run fullscreen at a reduced resolution in that case.)
Well, here's the problem. You could zoom the battlefield(or the main display whatever you call it) but you can't zoon the UI and the text. Yep, I am using half the native resolution to make the UI and text larger even before I posted this thread. But obviously it isn't the same thing as only scaling the UI. As for the performance of the game. Well, I think the game is pretty well optimized. I can even run one of my laptop which I bought eight years ago.  Increased load on hardware won't be a problem.  Anyway, thanks for your replay. :)
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: Alex on July 31, 2019, 08:08:16 AM
Well, here's the problem. You could zoom the battlefield(or the main display whatever you call it) but you can't zoon the UI and the text. Yep, I am using half the native resolution to make the UI and text larger even before I posted this thread. But obviously it isn't the same thing as only scaling the UI.

Right, yeah - but if you zoom in enough, there's little point to running at the higher resolution, because the resolution of the artwork isn't high enough, if that makes sense. So short of an "HD" release of the game (which would need to update all the assets to 2x the resolution; a massive undertaking), what you're already doing is about equivalent to what I would do if I did scaling in-game.

So, just to clarify, only scaling the UI isn't really viable - not only is that *also* a massive amount of work (compared to scaling everything), it also doesn't have much upside.

(I mean, for some things like the planet spheres, you'd see marginally smoother outlines at a higher resolution. But aside from a few things like that, it just wouldn't be very noticeable because most of the game is 2D assets, where if they're zoomed in at a higher res or just displayed at a lower res is basically equivalent. Sorry if I'm repeating myself!)

As for the performance of the game. Well, I think the game is pretty well optimized. I can even run one of my laptop which I bought eight years ago.  Increased load on hardware won't be a problem.  Anyway, thanks for your replay. :)

:D
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: Wyvern on July 31, 2019, 10:05:22 AM
So, just to clarify, only scaling the UI isn't really viable - not only is that *also* a massive amount of work (compared to scaling everything), it also doesn't have much upside.
I really can't agree with (the tail end of) this; I have no leg to stand on discussing how much work it would be, but being able to run the game at higher resolution has a significant up-side: being able to get better use out of the game assets that are already there.

As the game is right now, both in-combat and out of combat, I am almost always zoomed out as much as the game will let me.  With the current implementation, this means that a lot of the fine detail on the sprites is lost.  A game mode that kept the perceived size of things the same while running at monitor-native resolution under the hood would (I expect, based on my experiences with other games) look a lot better.
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: Alex on July 31, 2019, 10:14:13 AM
Ah, hmm, maybe I've been thinking about this wrong. Being too focused on the "most zoomed in" case, which, really, isn't the right thing to focus on here. Thank you for mentioning this; will absolutely keep it in mind.
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: Megas on July 31, 2019, 10:24:41 AM
As the game is right now, both in-combat and out of combat, I am almost always zoomed out as much as the game will let me.
Same here.  Perception of environment is much more important than admiring vanity on your ship.  Wished that combat automatically zoomed out to the max allowed for ship class instead of me always needing to wheel the middle button to zoom out to the max in every battle.
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: SCC on July 31, 2019, 10:35:15 AM
I too very often play zoomed out, and if not, I dynamically adjust so that my ship is maybe 10% of my screen, rarely ever paying attention to it.
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: Bonanza on August 04, 2019, 01:11:33 PM
I'd like to add to this in the case of 1440p monitors, which have been gaining in popularity. Halving the resolution to 720p is subjectively not enough pixels for an enjoyable experience. 1080p fullscreen is worse as the pixel ratio is off which creates a blurring effect. Without UI scaling, we need to either deal with the small text in full screen or run the game in a 1080p window. I understand the dev time required might not be worth the added convenience.
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: Alex on August 04, 2019, 01:22:43 PM
Right, yeah - 720 is actually not even enough for the UI, 768 vertical is the smallest it's coded to support without elements going off-screen. Trouble is, it's an awkward in-between resolution, so I suspect any in-game UI scaling would also have similar kinds of issues to 1080p with the pixel ratio being off.

Well, that or basically a parallel UI specifically for it, with different sets of assets - at least fonts, and probably some icons etc - which really ups the work required, even compared to more basic scaling. I guess depending on the approach, one might be able to automatically scale it more nicely somehow; I'm really not super familiar with this, though.
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: Imp0815 on August 05, 2019, 04:43:00 AM
I'm short sighted and having to deal with really small text and ui is very exhausting for me. To a point where i stop playing because my neck or my head hurts. Lowering the Resolution often resultus in a lower quality which lowers my enjoyment of the game. It's frustrating. Any game with a scaleable UI gets a Goldstar in my book. Just my point of view but maybe there are more people with that kind of problem out there.
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: Tartiflette on August 05, 2019, 05:25:59 AM
Maybe you can check this to avoid any quality loss:
http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15783.0
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: warmaha on August 05, 2019, 09:25:43 AM
Solution to this 4k scaling problem that decided to test today was to get Lossless Scaling software from Steam.
Price was 4€ (could be less, depending about tax where you live).
https://store.steampowered.com/app/993090/Lossless_Scaling/

You can see program UI picture at steam page and to get it work with Starsector is just :

Other positive things in this software :

For me this did beat every other choices I have tried hands down.  :)

Scaling 1080p to 4k : https://i.imgur.com/lrS74Iw.png (https://i.imgur.com/lrS74Iw.png)
Scaling 1080p to 4k with anti-aliasing : https://i.imgur.com/dALrHuY.png (https://i.imgur.com/dALrHuY.png)
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: Ungern on August 05, 2019, 01:05:49 PM
Price was 4€ (could be less, depending about tax where you live).

You can get http://tanalin.com/en/projects/integer-scaler/ for free.
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: warmaha on August 06, 2019, 01:39:54 AM
Price was 4€ (could be less, depending about tax where you live).

You can get http://tanalin.com/en/projects/integer-scaler/ for free.

True and yes both Lossless Scaling and that integer-scaler programs does same scaling. I did look that integer-scaler before buying Lossless Scaling, but did not test it because did not know who runs that web-site or who did make that software. Also to get easy updates to Lossless Scaling via Steam and those nice extra features like anti-aliasing was enough for me that I was happy to pay 4€ for that scaling program.

If someone has tested both programs, it would be interesting to read comparison. Like is there differences in FPS or game compatibility etc.
Title: Re: IntegerScaler
Post by: MT on August 09, 2019, 12:22:49 PM
did not test it because did not know who runs that web-site or who did make that software.

The domain of the IntegerScaler author was registered 15 years ago (https://reports.internic.net/cgi/whois?whois_nic=tanalin.com&type=domain). Both IntegerScaler and the site are by the same person. He is also the author of the comprehensive “Nonblurry integer-ratio scaling (http://tanalin.com/en/articles/lossless-scaling/)” article about the whole scaling issue, and one of a few people mostly active in the 4-year-long 1500-message integer-scaling thread (https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/844905) on the nVidia forum.

Also to get easy updates

Fwiw, IntegerScaler is written in C++ and built statically with no external dependencies like 100 megabytes of .NET framework or anything else, so the update process involves just extracting the small 280KB archive that contains two executables (32/64-bit) and readme.txt. IntegerScaler also supports Windows 7+ while LS is for Windows 8+.

and those nice extra features like anti-aliasing

Antialiasing has nothing to do with what integer-ratio scaling is intended for, and the freeware IntegerScaler status makes its author free of the need for bloating it with unneeded or rarely used features.

If someone has tested both programs, it would be interesting to read comparison. Like is there differences in FPS or game compatibility etc.

There may be no performance difference because both apps use the same magnification mechanism built into Windows. That said, IntegerScaler only uses full-screen-output mode which provides the most smooth experience, while LS apparently also use the less performant (noticeably jerky, based on Windows Magnifier) windowed-output-mode for the purpose of supporting multiple displays.
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: warmaha on August 11, 2019, 01:52:07 AM
did not test it because did not know who runs that web-site or who did make that software.

The domain of the IntegerScaler author was registered 15 years ago (https://reports.internic.net/cgi/whois?whois_nic=tanalin.com&type=domain). Both IntegerScaler and the site are by the same person. He is also the author of the comprehensive “Nonblurry integer-ratio scaling (http://tanalin.com/en/articles/lossless-scaling/)” article about the whole scaling issue, and one of a few people mostly active in the 4-year-long 1500-message integer-scaling thread (https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/844905) on the nVidia forum.

Good to know. I wish they (NVidia and AMD) would listen these people.

Also to get easy updates

Fwiw, IntegerScaler is written in C++ and built statically with no external dependencies like 100 megabytes of .NET framework or anything else, so the update process involves just extracting the small 280KB archive that contains two executables (32/64-bit) and readme.txt. IntegerScaler also supports Windows 7+ while LS is for Windows 8+.

Sounds very good. I did not notice that Windows version support, but that is good to know also, because some friends still use Win7. Ye, as software developer, I have been laughing about "Hello world" things that take megabytes.

and those nice extra features like anti-aliasing

Antialiasing has nothing to do with what integer-ratio scaling is intended for, and the freeware IntegerScaler status makes its author free of the need for bloating it with unneeded or rarely used features.

True, that AA has no use with games that has real pixel art or where that AA would otherwise make it actually look worse. Sure, not really needed with Starsector either, more like matter of taste with it too.

If someone has tested both programs, it would be interesting to read comparison. Like is there differences in FPS or game compatibility etc.

There may be no performance difference because both apps use the same magnification mechanism built into Windows. That said, IntegerScaler only uses full-screen-output mode which provides the most smooth experience, while LS apparently also use the less performant (noticeably jerky, based on Windows Magnifier) windowed-output-mode for the purpose of supporting multiple displays.

You can turn that Multi-display support on/off in Lossless Scaling, I think it uses full-screen output when that is turned off. Sadly, for me multi-display support is must to have feature, so I could not really use IntegerScaler if it does not support multi-display. Also means that I can pretty much check that performance difference by changing between multi-display on and off.

Thanks a lot MT for all that IntegerScaler related information, it helps a lot to know when to go for that as free option and when paying for Lossless Scaling.
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: MaGicBush on August 11, 2019, 06:58:06 PM
So I am using a 1080p monitor and just bought this. The text is very small on my monitor even at 1080p sadly. If I lower it to 1600x900 as suggested it actually causes a big fps drop to 30 from 60 for some strange reason? It also looks quite a bit worse, which was to be expected I guess lowering resolution. Better scaling would be very great to have at some point. I can play at 1080, but I have to strain my eyes to see some of it or lean forward in my chair(or maybe it's just the font style). I am even wearing my glasses lol.
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: TankorSmash on February 16, 2020, 07:58:56 PM
I made an account on this forum purely to add support to some sort of UI scaling/font size increase. I play at 1080p and still I get a bit of eye strain playing this game. Super cool game too!

I know it's got to be a lot of work for scaling but I'd still like to add another voice!
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: Alex on February 16, 2020, 08:14:58 PM
It'll be in the next release! So e.g. you'll be able to play in 1080p but scale the UI up to the same size it'd be if you were playing at 768p vertical.
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: xenoargh on February 18, 2020, 03:31:28 AM
But will it work at 4K+?  And will zoom levels be adjusted to compensate?

The game's almost ridiculously oversized in every way (fleet-level zoom in particular feels, well, cramped, can't speak to combat zoom because I haven't had that at defaults for like, 6 years) at 3840X2160.  It's probably time to just let people zoom out to whatever, honestly.
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: Alex on February 18, 2020, 10:47:38 AM
It'll work in 4k+, yes.
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: kmac2464 on March 03, 2020, 09:02:32 PM
It'll be in the next release! So e.g. you'll be able to play in 1080p but scale the UI up to the same size it'd be if you were playing at 768p vertical.

As someone who recently found this game, this is awesome. I look forward to a native solution to the jury rigged thing I set up to get it working for me.

As for the previous talks about the purpose of UI scaling for me it's really just being able to read the text comfortably for me. On a 4k screen all the UI and text are so small I find myself leaning in or honestly just skipping large segments of text which I dont really want to and feel I wouldn't if I could scale it up to a casually readable level.
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: Schmecko12 on March 22, 2020, 07:32:27 PM
As per the previous user, I'm fairly new to it and absolutely adore it so far, but have real trouble with the size of the UI.

A scaling option for the interface itself would be great. I don't think so far it needs to extend (for me) past the UI itself but an option to make text bigger would be brilliant.

On a 1440 screen, I have to literally lean in when I want to read something. But running it at 1440 and non-fullscreen is the preferred resolution, which I can't do if I go 1080p (as it will be windowed and the text is essentially the same size, so I have to select fullscreen.. and then, things don't look quite right).

I know it's a lot of work, just want to put another vote in the suggestion box that a scalable UI would be brilliant.

Thank you very much for the work on this game. It blew my mind that I didn't know it existed!
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: Alex on March 22, 2020, 09:51:50 PM
Just wanted to confirm that UI scaling will indeed be an option in the next release!

(See here (https://twitter.com/amosolov/status/1162523344593391617) for a real brief "how it works".)
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: mallix on July 24, 2020, 02:08:12 AM
Was this feature cut from the next release?

Just bought the game and cant find it.

I have an ultrawide monitore native res 3440x1440
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: Grievous69 on July 24, 2020, 02:22:31 AM
The next release is still being worked on, it's not out yet.
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: DAOWAce on July 29, 2020, 07:34:28 AM
Coming to a year on this forum thread.. also in the same boat.

Watched Quill18 play it, made me try it, only to find out it's incredibly tiny and the UI has me straining my eyes on my 3440x1440 monitor (and poor eyesight).

Neither that Lossless Scaling or Integer Scaler program others mentioned seem to work for me; it just expands the window to fullscreen with black space instead of scaling up.

The dev said to play in fullscreen at a lower resolution as a workaround.. but that only works if you're using a "stretch to screen" scaling option in your monitor's config (or GPU driver), and I don't because that's extremely ugly upscaling on LCDs.  Not like anyone's still using a CRT in this age, which were the only displays to scale properly.

Also..

Just wanted to confirm that UI scaling will indeed be an option in the next release!

(See here (https://twitter.com/amosolov/status/1162523344593391617) for a real brief "how it works".)

It's a bit ironic that the preview for showing UI scaling is also squint mode: https://i.imgur.com/IgQcyux.png

I can't see it clearly enough to gauge if it's still that blurry upscaling from an earlier preview.  Regardless, surely it's feasible to do pixel perfect scaling like other sprite/pixel based games do?
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: Terethall on July 29, 2020, 06:22:58 PM
So short of an "HD" release of the game (which would need to update all the assets to 2x the resolution; a massive undertaking), what you're already doing is about equivalent to what I would do if I did scaling in-game.

I'd pay $30 for the 4k texture pack DLC, but I suppose I can't prove how many other starfarers would.
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: Modo44 on July 31, 2020, 03:04:46 AM
The dev said to play in fullscreen at a lower resolution as a workaround.. but that only works if you're using a "stretch to screen" scaling option in your monitor's config (or GPU driver)
That sounds like your GPU driver problem. Typical Nvidia and AMD drivers contain the option to preserve the aspect ratio when scaling. You should be able to play without any weird stretching, with black side bars.
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: DAOWAce on August 02, 2020, 03:08:19 AM
The dev said to play in fullscreen at a lower resolution as a workaround.. but that only works if you're using a "stretch to screen" scaling option in your monitor's config (or GPU driver)
That sounds like your GPU driver problem. Typical Nvidia and AMD drivers contain the option to preserve the aspect ratio when scaling. You should be able to play without any weird stretching, with black side bars.
Yeah, that is what I meant; stretch to aspect ratio.  It doesn't matter if it's in GPU drivers or monitor settings, they all have it.

It's very ugly upscaling compared to something like the pixel perfect integer scalars.  Nothing like how a CRT handled resolutions outside its 'native'.  This is why I don't use it, and have it forced off in GPU drivers because certain games overrode my monitor setting (like Dungeon Keeper 2 from GoG).  Scaling only working in fullscreen is another downside, I play most everything in borderless due to frequent alt+tabbing (and setting desktop to a lower res is a big no no).

Also, I seem to have figured out why the game (and certain others) wasn't scaling with those programs; it's actually a full doubling of the resolution without any in-betweens.  So because I don't have a 16:9 4K display, even 1024x768 can't be scaled up, because the vertical resolution winds up 1,536, and my display is a max of 1440.  I forced the game to 1280x720 and it worked, but was VERY cramped.  So my hope that they would do multiplier scaling is ruined.  2x or nothing.

At this point I'd take the slightly blurry font upscaling over straining to read text. I can't even play the game when I have my contacts out (wear glasses in morning/night). Just wish the scaling option got backported and we all didn't have to wait a long time for the next major release since it's a huge QoL feature to playability and doesn't affect the game content..
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: Modo44 on August 02, 2020, 04:10:56 AM
You can install ReShade (https://reshade.me/) with some sharpening filter to help with the scaling a little (inject into the Starsector\jre\bin\java.exe file, not into Starsector.exe). It is not perfect because the GPU scaling comes last, but slight oversharpening of the source image can help combat the blurriness.
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: TankorSmash on November 27, 2022, 12:19:34 AM
This is _hardcore_ necro'ing but I just want to say thanks to the devs for implementing this. It works really well!
Title: Re: Any solution for UI scaling?
Post by: Alex on November 27, 2022, 08:09:09 AM
One of the few times when a necro is not a problem :D Thank you, I'm really happy to hear that! <3