Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => General Discussion => Topic started by: AdmiralRem on July 12, 2019, 06:16:11 AM

Title: More dedicated missile ships
Post by: AdmiralRem on July 12, 2019, 06:16:11 AM
It seems like there is a lack of ships who’s primary weapons are missiles. What are your guys best/favorite missile set ups?
Title: Re: More dedicated missile ships
Post by: Grievous69 on July 12, 2019, 06:51:17 AM
That's because most vanilla missiles are balanced around having limited ammo. If there were more ships like Gryphon, all of them would have to have built-in expanded missile racks and a system which enables them to be useful in combat for longer. Or just rebalance all vanilla missiles and give them unlimited ammo, which I don't see happening. You're better off looking for playstyles like that in mods.
Title: Re: More dedicated missile ships
Post by: Megas on July 12, 2019, 08:34:51 AM
Harbinger with AM Blasters.  Do not let energy mounts fool you.  AM Blasters are missiles in all but name.  Decent for piloting and nailing small ships not worth sending Reaper Afflictors at.

Alternatively, Conquest with Locusts plus Expanded Missile Racks.  Part missile ship that can use missiles for more than a few seconds, part fast battleship.

Apogee with Locusts plus Expanded Missile Racks if I find Locusts before Plasma Cannon.  Without plasma cannon, better stick with mining blaster for armor penetration (especially against incomplete tier 1 stations Apogee can solo) and let Locusts do the work.

Or just bring Astral with bombers.  Distinction between fighters and missiles are nearly blurry enough to be indistinguishable, and fighters can be better missiles than missiles.
Title: Re: More dedicated missile ships
Post by: Schwartz on July 12, 2019, 11:16:48 AM
Pirate Falcon. Pirate Falcon. Pirate Falcon.

I guess you could use a Gryphon, technically, if you wanted to...
Title: Re: More dedicated missile ships
Post by: PyroFuzz on July 12, 2019, 04:35:52 PM
I still await a destroyer that just has like 4 medium missiles and 2 pd slots, so i can behold the pilums
Title: Re: More dedicated missile ships
Post by: Baqar79 on July 12, 2019, 05:45:59 PM
Pirate Falcon. Pirate Falcon. Pirate Falcon.

I guess you could use a Gryphon, technically, if you wanted to...
Yep, this one right here.

Seriously it is an incredible missile boat, and I was never a fan of dedicated missile ships until I discovered this one.

I still await a destroyer that just has like 4 medium missiles and 2 pd slots, so i can behold the pilums
It may be a Cruiser, but it is fairly cheap to deploy, has Destroyer class speed but with Cruiser class defence, and meets those requirements perfectly (+2 small missile mounts on top of what you were asking).  This is configuration I like to give to my Officers to command:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/iE1dRgT.png)
[close]

I kind of think that the Gryphon and Falcon(P) should be a bit more like side grades (superior mobility vs superior firepower); so either the Gryphon's cost come down to match the Falcon(P) or the Falcon(P)'s go up (It probably should increase considering how good it is), or kind of meet in the middle and make them something like 18 Deployment points each.
Title: Re: More dedicated missile ships
Post by: MesoTroniK on July 12, 2019, 06:03:11 PM
I still await a destroyer that just has like 4 medium missiles and 2 pd slots, so i can behold the pilums

That would be hideously OP...
Title: Re: More dedicated missile ships
Post by: Vayra on July 12, 2019, 06:22:24 PM
Shadowyards has a very well-armed missile destroyer, FYI.

If you're playing without mods... Time to buy a whole bunch of Buffalo Mk.IIs.  8)
Title: Re: More dedicated missile ships
Post by: Serenitis on July 18, 2019, 12:56:22 PM
Pirate Falcon. Pirate Falcon. Pirate Falcon.
Behold! The correctest man on the forum right now.

Falcon (P), 4x Pilum, any other weapons, converted hangar + interceptor.
Basically an untouchable missile fountain with a cautious or timid guy in charge.

Quote
I guess you could use a Gryphon, technically, if you wanted to...
You could, but why would you? Gryphon is not as good at burying things in Pilums.
Which is by far the most important measure of missile-worthiness.

I'd love to see a Buffalo II variant that's just a bare keel with however many many medium missile mounts is considered just barely less than indecent, and literally nothing else.
Or an Atlas II with all the guns stripped off and just a row of broadside/angled medium missiles down each flank.

(https://i.imgur.com/ywktqMI.png?1)
Title: Re: More dedicated missile ships
Post by: MesoTroniK on July 18, 2019, 06:52:29 PM
I'd love to see a Buffalo II variant that's just a bare keel with however many many medium missile mounts is considered just barely less than indecent, and literally nothing else.

So yea, that already exists... Two med missiles for a destroyer :)
Title: Re: More dedicated missile ships
Post by: AdmiralRem on July 19, 2019, 03:28:39 AM
Ohhh Pilums are LRMs I’m not 100% on all the names of things. So yah I’ve had zero luck with them. Soooo slow. But maybe I’ll give them another try. I also gave the pirate falcon a try and it’s horrendous by itself. Zero consistent dps.
Title: Re: More dedicated missile ships
Post by: AxleMC131 on July 19, 2019, 03:44:27 AM
Ohhh Pilums are LRMs I’m not 100% on all the names of things. So yah I’ve had zero luck with them. Soooo slow. But maybe I’ll give them another try. I also gave the pirate falcon a try and it’s horrendous by itself. Zero consistent dps.

You need to load up on big missiles and face some heavily armoured targets. DPS is not everything.  ;)

As for Pilums, try spamming them a bit. After a while they basically reach critical mass and become this crazy deathball that ships just can't avoid.
Title: Re: More dedicated missile ships
Post by: TaLaR on July 19, 2019, 03:54:22 AM
I also gave the pirate falcon a try and it’s horrendous by itself. Zero consistent dps.

Pirate Falcon is best used as early player ship. It's quite powerful with Annihilators, and while overall endurance of such build is unimpressive, it's at least higher than what SO or Sabot builds have.
AI tends to be more wasteful with Annihilators (by mistaking them for long range weapons), so letting AI pilot them is fairly disappointing.
Title: Re: More dedicated missile ships
Post by: SCC on July 19, 2019, 04:23:36 AM
Pirate Falcon is very strong. It can kill ships in one burst, or it can go for 2 sabot pods, 2 chaingun build and massacre everything in close quarters. It's a fun ship, but it's a missile cruiser, so it doesn't have long term staying power.
Title: Re: More dedicated missile ships
Post by: SafariJohn on July 19, 2019, 05:56:45 AM
Ohhh Pilums are LRMs I’m not 100% on all the names of things. So yah I’ve had zero luck with them. Soooo slow. But maybe I’ll give them another try.

Could also give my Pilum Rebalance (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=10598.0) mini-mod a try. It makes Pilums worthwhile without having to spam them.
Title: Re: More dedicated missile ships
Post by: Igncom1 on July 19, 2019, 09:31:21 AM
I have a video where I went full pilum fleet:

https://youtu.be/-IG1ydoxKuk

I do like the Falcon(P) but it is a little scary to try and just rely on them alone.

IN any event you can skip the usual mods like ITU and go straight for just ECCM's and expanded missile racks to make it all better.
Title: Re: More dedicated missile ships
Post by: Thaago on July 19, 2019, 10:21:47 AM
Huh, is that an almost entirely HE fleet? I see a lot of HAG's going on :P

Watching that, I see the Hurricane MIRVs doing a huge amount of work - more than I expected. But the Pilums don't really seem to do much? Are they just there to keep the enemy's shields up?
Title: Re: More dedicated missile ships
Post by: CopperCoyote on July 19, 2019, 10:30:34 AM
Huh, is that an almost entirely HE fleet? I see a lot of HAG's going on :P

Watching that, I see the Hurricane MIRVs doing a huge amount of work - more than I expected. But the Pilums don't really seem to do much? Are they just there to keep the enemy's shields up?

That's what i use them for. Also sometimes bonus HE damage.
Title: Re: More dedicated missile ships
Post by: Igncom1 on July 19, 2019, 10:53:28 AM
I have a lot of medium sized kinetic cannons, but otherwise mass HE to just blow through anything that loses a shield.

The Pilum missiles themselves aren't directly useful, but the swarm will hound the enemy forever that eventually corners the enemy where they can no longer flee. The AI is very prone to being caught between a missile swarm, bombers, and your fleet.
Title: Re: More dedicated missile ships
Post by: Thaago on July 19, 2019, 11:00:29 AM
Well fair enough! It certainly stops the AI from making any aggressive moves - they were harried and defensive the whole time.
Title: Re: More dedicated missile ships
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on July 21, 2019, 12:53:02 PM
I have a video where I went full pilum fleet:

https://youtu.be/-IG1ydoxKuk

I do like the Falcon(P) but it is a little scary to try and just rely on them alone.

IN any event you can skip the usual mods like ITU and go straight for just ECCM's and expanded missile racks to make it all better.
Now I want to see this fleet versus something like the Drover spam fleet!
Title: Re: More dedicated missile ships
Post by: Thaago on July 21, 2019, 04:44:47 PM
Unfortunately Spark spam is excellent PD... I think it would go poorly for the missiles :(
Title: Re: More dedicated missile ships
Post by: PyroFuzz on August 23, 2019, 08:01:08 PM
I am curious to how well a pure pilum fleet would survive in a tournament
Title: Re: More dedicated missile ships
Post by: Goumindong on August 23, 2019, 11:35:35 PM
I am curious to how well a pure pilum fleet would survive in a tournament

Probably not well any form of light PD will chew them right up. The majority of the work on the video in question is being done by MIRVs as an example.
Title: Re: More dedicated missile ships
Post by: Plantissue on August 24, 2019, 06:58:29 AM
It's a max battle size fleet with missile spam. Outnumbering the other force by 50%. Who knows that skills or mods there may be. A normal fleet, carriers or otherwise would had just plowed through the opposing fleet with the deployment advantage alone. Though it is interesting to see. Like fighters, like missiles, there does seem to be a bit of a problem that the AI preferes to fight against the fighter/pilum, rather than doing the "smart" thing and killing the fighter/missile spewing ships themselves. Which is partially why the critical mass exists. Enough of them will simply zone away ships.
Title: Re: More dedicated missile ships
Post by: Pappus on August 24, 2019, 07:02:59 AM
The Gryphon is AI glitched and can't properly use the middle and small mounts in conjuntion with certain setups. Just wanted to point that out.
Title: Re: More dedicated missile ships
Post by: SCC on August 24, 2019, 07:16:00 AM
It would help if you actually posted those certain setups as well.
Title: Re: More dedicated missile ships
Post by: sotanaht on August 24, 2019, 07:54:47 AM
Well fair enough! It certainly stops the AI from making any aggressive moves - they were harried and defensive the whole time.
The enemy fleet was also half his size.  I don't want to call pillums useless, but they do very little for how much you need to sacrifice to use them.
Title: Re: More dedicated missile ships
Post by: Plantissue on August 24, 2019, 04:01:48 PM
Single ship on ship, they can do a good job warding off frigates. Mostly because sometimes ships don't want to take the pilum *** on the shield.