Just wanted to say, I really like this idea. Being able to just use red giants for this is such a nice touch - you can see which stars are usable on the map, and it's an interesting consideration for plotting a course. Good stuff!Thanks! At first I had it set up for gas giants, but quickly discovered how annoying that was.
Yeah, this is fantastic, I'm going to start a long run this afternoon to test it out.Glad to hear it! Please let me know if there's anything you think I can improve :)
Don't you need those fancy thingamajigs on Syndria to make fuel out of stars though?Yes, Synchrotron Cores are required to efficiently convert volatiles into fuel using the fuel production industry, but that process doesn't involve stars. Volatiles may be mined and imported/exported, so I think it's a safe assumption that the raw material for fuel production comes from planets. I like to think of fuel siphoning as a less efficient way to produce fuel. In fact, the conversion ratio of supplies to fuel is meant to ensure that buying fuel (at least on the black market) is almost always cheaper than siphoning.
Might result in a "Gameplay > Realism" argumentThat's pretty much what it boils down to. I like the idea of ships specialized for fuel siphoning, and it would certainly be more realistic, but I didn't want to mess with vanilla fleet building more than necessary. However, some vanilla mechanics lend themselves naturally to modifying how siphoning works. Solar Shielding cuts down on CR damage while siphoning, for example. Also, siphoning speed is proportional to the fleet's fuel capacity, so having tankers with auxiliary fuel tanks can help you limit CR damage.
I'm hoping Alex steals this.Me too! :)
More science-y stuff with gameplay use is always nice. As are ways to manipulate the main two logistic products.I love everything about supplies. The combat/CR/supplies dynamic makes Starsector a better survival game than anything that actually calls itself a survival game. A big reason I decided this mod was worth making was to increase the depth of the two "survival" resources.
My apologies if there already is something like that, it's been some time since I have played the campaign (just starting now).No need to apologize, but there is something like that. You can use the "Distress Call" ability to request help.
There is so much new stuff added it is a little overwhelming.Yeah, Starsector and its mods have come a long way for sure! Hope you enjoy fuel siphoning!
What's a system that would report "high density"?
It works in any nebula, but it works best at nebulae in nebula type systems.
Nice. Going to try a Nomad Fleet play through. I can see it helping when you get stuck and your distress call just issen't bringing aid. saves so many reloads.Good luck! ;D
What is fuelConsumptionMult? Changing it doesn't seem to change the amount supplies used."fuelConsumptionMult" changes the amount of fuel your fleet uses in hyperspace, regardless of whether or not fuel siphoning is used. The "DensityConversionRatio" settings can be used to adjust the amount of supplies consumed by using the ability. Higher numbers are more efficient.
Also how can I tell if the system is a nebula type system? Like Corvus sits in a nebula and has many clouds on the periphery yet when I sit my fleet in one of the clouds the tool tip reports "low density". What's a system that would report "high density"?AxleMC's answer is spot-on. With the "starscape" option off, nebula systems show up as rings, and with it on they look like clouds.
"fuelConsumptionMult" changes the amount of fuel your fleet uses in hyperspace, regardless of whether or not fuel siphoning is used. The "DensityConversionRatio" settings can be used to adjust the amount of supplies consumed by using the ability. Higher numbers are more efficient.
I'll take a look to see how complicated it would be to make the consumed resource configurable.
Yeah, there's a chance, but I'll have to think on it. I really like what Techpriest did with nanoforges and supply forging, but I think it might not work out as well in this case because the conversion ratio for fuel siphoning is more sensitive (since both resources involved are vital). A moderate bonus might work. I'm not too keen on encouraging players to clutter their inventories for the sake of a bonus, either. To be fair it's not a lot of clutter and it's fairly unavoidable, but it does seem a bit sloppy. I think I might hold off until the next release of Starsector to decide whether or not to add a feature like that, since I suspect things might change about how items like nanoforges and synchrotron cores work.So it's not out of the question, but it's likely not something I'll add until later, if I decide to at all. You're absolutely right about the overabundance of nanoforges and synchrotron cores though. Hopefully that will improve with the next release of Starsector.
I would try writing something like this, but god do I hate Java, I can't even follow the modding tutorials posted on this forum on how to set up the JDK and library tailored for Starsector. I'm probably just dumb.Eh, I've been doing stuff like this for over 15 years and I still sometimes struggle to set up build environments and wrap my head around bugs. Having an affinity for programming helps a lot, but I really think it's more about stubbornness and persistence (not to mention sufficient spare time).
Someone else requested Synchrotron Core interaction at one point.Yeah, I just saw that post as I was scrolling down. Feel like a clown right now for not reading through the thread entirely, but I'm glad someone had the same idea.
Eh, I've been doing stuff like this for over 15 years and I still sometimes struggle to set up build environments and wrap my head around bugs. Having an affinity for programming helps a lot, but I really think it's more about stubbornness and persistence (not to mention sufficient spare time).Perhaps I will try getting back into it when I have spare time. I've got multiple things to finish, and it has been like that for months.
Yeah, I just saw that post as I was scrolling down. Feel like a clown right now for not reading through the thread entirely, but I'm glad someone had the same idea.Heh, no worries. Repeated requests are one of the best ways I can gauge demand, and I sure as hell don't expect anyone to read an entire mod thread before making a suggestion.
Perhaps I will try getting back into it when I have spare time. I've got multiple things to finish, and it has been like that for months.Yeah, I hear ya. There's only so much we can do.
right now this feels like cheating and suffers from the same problem supply forging does (no scaling with fleet size).Fuel conversion rate scales with your fleet's total fuel capacity, which is closely tied to fleet size.
Huh. Could you maybe describe how you're using the ability to make the game much easier? From the start I've been very careful to make sure fuel siphoning is only useful in two specific cases:Hard to tell what would be important. During a journey I stop by a nebula blessed system and speed through a cloud with the ability turned on. Even non-dense nebulas fill up the tank goddamn fast, like in a fraction of a second or 1-2 seconds worst case.I think perhaps you're not aware that it's much cheaper to just buy fuel than to convert supplies to fuel using fuel siphoning (except at nebula systems, where it's about the same)
- When you have an emergency fuel shortage but have supplies to spare
- When you're passing near certain points on the sector map (nebula systems) that can be used as fuel stops in order to avoid bringing along so many tankers, and thereby make the trip slightly more efficient
This could be it. I'm a packrat and installed the mod at about 5000 fuel capacity with a small fleet (right now its 11k but doesn't really matter since fuel is plenty, supply got scare with large scale battles due to nexerelin).right now this feels like cheating and suffers from the same problem supply forging does (no scaling with fleet size).Fuel conversion rate scales with your fleet's total fuel capacity, which is closely tied to fleet size.
Siphon rate also scales with the current speed of your fleet, so slowing down while going through nebulae is a good way to more precisely control how many supplies you convert into fuel.
I endorse the idea and the execution is great at least ergonomically.
However I decided to abandon it because it no longer supports red giants and it is way too easy to get fuel. Something more immersive like hull mods or dedicated fuel processing ships would let me justify using this (maybe faster conversion speed based on how much of them is in use) but right now this feels like cheating and suffers from the same problem supply forging does (no scaling with fleet size).
The only other thing I would suggest is adding an option for a speed multiplier in the options.Would you mind explaining why? Is it hard to control the conversion rate by changing the speed of the fleet sometimes?
I couldn't find it asked in the thread (unless I'm extra blind today), but have you thought about making another mod for something along the lines of ore -> metal and other such? Thanks for the mod by the way.You're welcome! ;D
I couldn't find it asked in the thread (unless I'm extra blind today), but have you thought about making another mod for something along the lines of ore -> metal and other such? Thanks for the mod by the way.You're welcome! ;D
I actually have considered making a mod that would enable things like that, although perhaps not in the way you're thinking. I have a lot of more important things to work on, so I probably won't ever get around to making it, but here are my notes on the idea:SpoilerExploitable Planets
Surveyed planets allow certain interactions based on their characteristics (e.g. extracting commodities)
Cost of interactions scales with hazard rating
Some exploitable resources regenerate over time (with a delay before regeneration?)
Others may require supplies to exploit, or may only be explited once
May be exploited by other fleets preventing you from doing so?
Syrvivors may be found on decivilized worlds and accepted as crew
Facilities may be found on planets with ruins that allow...
Fabricating supplies (Metals + Organics + Food)
Refining ore
Synthesizing fuel from volitiles
These facilities allow infinite conversion at an inefficient conversion rate
Intel would need to be made available for each surveyed planet in a way that makes it easy to find the type of interaction you need nearby
Decivilized worlds require marines to safely exploit[close]
The only other thing I would suggest is adding an option for a speed multiplier in the options.Would you mind explaining why? Is it hard to control the conversion rate by changing the speed of the fleet sometimes?
Hey, thanks for the kind words! Supply to fuel conversion rate scales linearly with the fleet's total fuel capacity rather than ship classes, and I don't see any reason to change that. Pretty sure it would be very easy to add a setting to allow siphoning without nebulae. Next time I'm digging in the code I'll take a look to see if that's the case and add that setting if so.
Hey, thanks for the kind words! Supply to fuel conversion rate scales linearly with the fleet's total fuel capacity rather than ship classes, and I don't see any reason to change that. Pretty sure it would be very easy to add a setting to allow siphoning without nebulae. Next time I'm digging in the code I'll take a look to see if that's the case and add that setting if so.
If you are going for realism (which may not matter, this game is generally pretty abstracted), you could always set it to allow fuel conversion waaay way out at the edge of systems, essentially past the edge of the heliosphere/heliopause in interstellar space. How you would mark this on any arbitrary systems map... I couldn't say. But basically would balanced by the fact that player would have to waste supplies burning out the edge of a system just to refuel. It also doesn't really make any sense, since by that same logic a fleet could just refuel by getting really close to a sun instead, but up to you (since refueling close to sun would be a bad idea unless player has solar shielding hull mod).
Thanks once again for the report! It sounds like maybe your fleet wasn't moving while you were using the ability? The rate at which supplies are converted to fuel is based on how quickly your fleet is moving through the nebula cloud. If you're not moving at all I'm pretty sure it would be just like what you described. That's probably a common point of confusion, now that I think of it. I'll try to do something about that, regardless of whether or not that's what's going on for you.
Thanks once again for the report! It sounds like maybe your fleet wasn't moving while you were using the ability? The rate at which supplies are converted to fuel is based on how quickly your fleet is moving through the nebula cloud. If you're not moving at all I'm pretty sure it would be just like what you described. That's probably a common point of confusion, now that I think of it. I'll try to do something about that, regardless of whether or not that's what's going on for you.
Huh, turns out that was the case. Apologies for the confusion, though I agree something should be added to the ability description to emphasize movement is necessary.
+1 to changing description to mention movement.Yup. That'll be in the next update.
On the topic of movement, is it possible to have a setting to lower the speed of conversion? So it takes more/less movement to siphon? I would like it so I can have it take longer to fuel up.I think that would be a good option to add. I'll see about putting it in the next update, but no promises!