Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => Mods => Modding => Topic started by: Grizzlyadamz on March 28, 2019, 04:55:47 PM

Title: No fighters that grant 'ground support'?
Post by: Grizzlyadamz on March 28, 2019, 04:55:47 PM: So far I'm surprised I haven't seen any planetary-ops-rated small craft to transport/support troops, if at the cost of space-ops capabilities/efficiency
Is it not possible? Or could I just...leave this thread here and suddenly see them appear in the sector? ;)
Title: Re: No fighters that grant 'ground support'?
Post by: NightfallGemini on April 02, 2019, 04:40:27 PM: If by fighters you mean the stuff you equip on carriers, no. Fighters aren't part of your fleet anymore, they're LPCs.
Title: Re: No fighters that grant 'ground support'?
Post by: Snrasha on April 02, 2019, 09:07:03 PM: Quote from: NightfallGemini on April 02, 2019, 04:40:27 PM
If by fighters you mean the stuff you equip on carriers, no. Fighters aren't part of your fleet anymore, they're LPCs.
Not NightFallGemini, for him, this is just weird than your bomber do not help your marine to assault a planet ^^.

Grizz, because on the case if this planet has oxygen, the bomber cannot fly without burn on the atmosphere of this planet.
But yeah, on the case of a Barren planet, this thing can be weird ^^
Title: Re: No fighters that grant 'ground support'?
Post by: Kwbr on April 03, 2019, 12:12:06 AM: There are a few mod fighters that mention atmosphere capability I believe, would be a neat thing to see

Dunno about the technical side of things though, since I imagine hullmods work differently on fighter LPCs than regular ships
Title: Re: No fighters that grant 'ground support'?
Post by: Grizzlyadamz on April 03, 2019, 12:08:32 PM: There are fighters that grant salvage yield, according to their tooltip. See the SCV Construction Corvette that comes standard with Machine's Coalition-based Threshal capitals.
Title: Re: No fighters that grant 'ground support'?
Post by: Inventor Raccoon on April 03, 2019, 03:16:00 PM: Giving out of combat advantages to things that typically only do anything in combat might result in encouraging weird strategies like keeping a load of utility LPCs on you, refitting all your carriers with them, salvaging or raiding for a load of goodies, then immediately swapping them back for combat fighters.
Title: Re: No fighters that grant 'ground support'?
Post by: Vayra on April 03, 2019, 03:28:12 PM: You could maybe have a "ready" timer that starts upon equipping them before you get the full bonus. Something about having to train and reach familiarity not only with the specific model of strike craft used but also with the doctrinal differences implied by its placement on a specific ship/in a specific fighter bay.

Of course, that's also a lot of work, and a lot of modders aren't necessarily going to be excited to put in that much work on something that wasn't their own idea to begin with... Time to learn java, OP? ;)
Title: Re: No fighters that grant 'ground support'?
Post by: Grizzlyadamz on April 03, 2019, 04:31:46 PM: Hm good point Inventor, swapping out LPCs does come with a significant CR deduction but it might not be enough if you can get the full bonus immediately on a low-upkeep carrier or two.
Though honestly that doesn't seem too poorly balanced- carriers tend to be expensive. Swapping out and then back again post-battle has a nice fat pricetag to recover, same deal for keeping support LPCs equipped and swapping out to combat before battle- it could multiply deployment cost by 2-4x, and take away the high-CR edge you & your officers spent skills to get. Sure it would be worth it if you're a 100% combat fleet that just crushed 2 armadas and are about to fill your holds to bursting & fly straight home, but that seems like self-limiting cheese tbh. Especially if the bonuses are appropriately low.

Quote from: Vayra on April 03, 2019, 03:28:12 PM
Of course, that's also a lot of work, and a lot of modders aren't necessarily going to be excited to put in that much work on something that wasn't their own idea to begin with... Time to learn java, OP? ;)
No speak english
And it's a concept more than anything. Would be a weirdly-specific standalone- "Support Fighter Pack: Come get your 4 variants of generic fighter LPCs for your supplemental salvaging & ground-ops needs"? Nah that's...no way forget it
Title: Re: No fighters that grant 'ground support'?
Post by: angrytigerp on April 04, 2019, 10:05:08 AM: Proposals x2:

1.) Hullmod. Take away the carrier's bays for X bonus in attack strength per bay removed (call it "ground attack craft manufactory; unfortunately, this makes it very handwavy and you don't see it)

2.) Have LPCs with very poor in-combat performance (but they can still be used in space), with the flip side of offering similar attack strength bonus(es).
Title: Re: No fighters that grant 'ground support'?
Post by: Grizzlyadamz on April 04, 2019, 10:09:59 PM: #2 is pretty much the OP @angrytigerp
Atmosphere-rated fighters that are short-ranged bricks in space & chunky transports that almost lose to mining drones, but they give a smidge of extra ground power
Practically it would be easier & better to just get a dedicated troop carrier or two, but it could get a niche in small-fleet ops & with the headcanon crowd that would pack them into the dedicated trooper. Aint no way a big honkin stinkin goose of a cruiser is going to give the same kind of precise, close-in ground support a couple wings of aero-fighters & transports could. It could knock down the big ground emplacements sure, but you'd have to park the thing a mile away and tell the cyborgs to carry a couple extra batteries after that.
Title: Re: No fighters that grant 'ground support'?
Post by: Harmful Mechanic on April 04, 2019, 11:56:21 PM: I just tested this out on some in-progress content, and it doesn't look like putting Ground Support Package on a fighter wing will give any sort of bonus to your fleet. Given how simple the hullmod script is, I think we can call this one dead in the water unless someone feels like writing some fancy hullmod code.
Title: Re: No fighters that grant 'ground support'?
Post by: Tartiflette on April 05, 2019, 06:56:13 AM: Well, maybe mounting the wing could install a special "ground support" hullmod onto the carrier directly?
Title: Re: No fighters that grant 'ground support'?
Post by: Tartiflette on April 05, 2019, 10:31:13 AM: The hullmod I mentioned wouldn't be available otherwise, it's a similar solution to (Discord preview) Seeker's special weapons with "interferences". Those powerful weapons add a hullmod reducing the ship's dissipation dramatically if you use more than one, to prevent spamming those.
Title: Re: No fighters that grant 'ground support'?
Post by: Grizzlyadamz on April 05, 2019, 05:40:33 PM: ***, didn't scrap that quick enough, sorry tart.
Yeah I like the idea of having the fighter LPC add the hullmod, seems like more work but worth it.
Title: Re: No fighters that grant 'ground support'?
Post by: AxleMC131 on April 05, 2019, 09:28:53 PM: Quote from: angrytigerp on April 04, 2019, 10:05:08 AM

1.) Hullmod. Take away the carrier's bays for X bonus in attack strength per bay removed (call it "ground attack craft manufactory; unfortunately, this makes it very handwavy and you don't see it)

My "Repurposed Fighter Bays" hullmod from Disassemble Reassemble could be a good basis for something like this. I've already made one random standalone variant that gives bonuses to flux handling. Another that buffs ground operations should be trivial - assuming it's a stat you can change on a modular hullmod of course.
Title: Re: No fighters that grant 'ground support'?
Post by: angrytigerp on April 08, 2019, 07:09:26 AM: Quote from: AxleMC131 on April 05, 2019, 09:28:53 PM
Quote from: angrytigerp on April 04, 2019, 10:05:08 AM

1.) Hullmod. Take away the carrier's bays for X bonus in attack strength per bay removed (call it "ground attack craft manufactory; unfortunately, this makes it very handwavy and you don't see it)

My "Repurposed Fighter Bays" hullmod from Disassemble Reassemble could be a good basis for something like this. I've already made one random standalone variant that gives bonuses to flux handling. Another that buffs ground operations should be trivial - assuming it's a stat you can change on a modular hullmod of course.

Not gonna lie, was thinking about DaRa as I said that lol.

But yeah, I imagine it'd probably be even easier than the RFB's effect, which requires a call for what value the modded ship has, then applying X% bonus to it. The ground-attack thing would probably, like Ground Support Package, just need to add Y value to the fleet's combine assault strength.
Title: Re: No fighters that grant 'ground support'?
Post by: Shoat on May 29, 2019, 06:46:15 AM: Quote from: Grizzlyadamz on April 04, 2019, 10:09:59 PM
#2 is pretty much the OP @angrytigerp
Atmosphere-rated fighters that are short-ranged bricks in space & chunky transports that almost lose to mining drones, but they give a smidge of extra ground power
Practically it would be easier & better to just get a dedicated troop carrier or two, but it could get a niche in small-fleet ops & with the headcanon crowd that would pack them into the dedicated trooper. Aint no way a big honkin stinkin goose of a cruiser is going to give the same kind of precise, close-in ground support a couple wings of aero-fighters & transports could. It could knock down the big ground emplacements sure, but you'd have to park the thing a mile away and tell the cyborgs to carry a couple extra batteries after that.

Pretty much this.
Spaceships are built for space (and IN space).
Atmospheres (even something comparatively tame like mars') are a whole different and very hostile environment (suddenly there's pressure crunching down onto the hull from every direction, and there is STUFF everywhere that might have phsical or chemical reactions with some materials or with your engines). So if you have fully 100% optimized a fighter for maximum performance in a 0G vacuum environment, it'll pretty much stop functioning immediately upon entering atmosphere.
Similarly, if you build an atmospheric fighter and throw it out into space, it'll just float along dead in the water and stop functioning immediately.

So if you built a hybrid, it'll be terrible at both space combat and atmospheric combat. Which means there's no reason for there to be a hybrid fighter LPC (since it'll be worse in every way than a talon while being waay more expensive), it's entirely fine as it is in the shape of a text-only thing (ground support package could include some atmospheric planes, helicopters or hunter-killer drones that get deployed alongside transporters full of dudes).

I always find it so weird when scifi spaceships just effortlessly land and take off from earthlike-atmosphere planets. Especially if they're ships that have lots of little bits and bops (antennas, thin cannons, glass front windows) that would be in danger of crushing/breaking during landing or if they're weirdly shaped un-aerodynamic bricks but still somehow fly in straight and stable paths in-atmosphere, or if they're ships that are so absurdly flimsy that they explode instantly when someone looks at them angry (such as tie fighters).
Title: Re: No fighters that grant 'ground support'?
Post by: Grizzlyadamz on January 07, 2022, 10:28:13 AM: It has been 3 years, and I've found myself filling my ground-support vessels with some SRA aerospace fighters I scrounged (Neriads!) just for the flavor.
Yall seen any small (fighter/frigate-sized) ground support craft floating around the modiverse recently?
Title: Re: No fighters that grant 'ground support'?
Post by: Chairman Suryasari on January 09, 2022, 03:30:55 AM: Try Arma Armatura - https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=18751.0

This mod contains many battle mech as a fighter that will automatically add hull mods to your ships like ground support to simulate their other abilities other than space combat.

"A hullmod that is automatically added to carriers with Cataphract wings, which grant a small ground support bonus."
(https://i.imgur.com/vLMYBF7.png)
Title: Re: No fighters that grant 'ground support'?
Post by: Grizzlyadamz on January 10, 2022, 05:48:32 AM: I was using some of Diable's Wanzers in one of my ground-craft just for the head-canon!
That looks awsome!
Title: Re: No fighters that grant 'ground support'?
Post by: Deageon on January 11, 2022, 09:46:12 PM: Legacy of Arkgnesis notes that most of it's fighters can be used as atmospheric craft, for fighter superiority or in gunship roles. When you have them loaded up on a carrier, that ship gets a 0-op hullmod that adds some ground support stats.
Title: Re: No fighters that grant 'ground support'?
Post by: Grizzlyadamz on January 12, 2022, 12:39:56 PM: Ha, I just found one of those yesterday!

Between them and Arma, I'm extremely happy about being able to load genuine ground-support craft into my ground-support vessels! ;D