Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => General Discussion => Topic started by: tylertoo on March 02, 2019, 02:51:28 PM

Title: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: tylertoo on March 02, 2019, 02:51:28 PM
Newb here.  I've played through the combat tutorials and the campaign tutorial, and I pretty much suck at combat.  Specifically, I'm piloting only the Hammerhead and trying to strafe using the shift key.  I find it very awkward to manage the shift key, WASD, shields and alternating weapons all at the same time.  I have not been pausing in combat but maybe I should. 

I'm an old guy, and reflexes are gone anyway, but I would like to know if there are things I could do that might make combat less awkward, particularly for my left hand on the keyboard.  Or maybe I just need to practice.  Or put it on autopilot ;).

Thanks for any tips.  Other than that, I'm loving the game.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Re-bot on March 02, 2019, 03:52:17 PM
the is an option in the settings that inverts shift. this will let you have strafe on by default and shift will then turn it off (opposite action).
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Inventor Raccoon on March 02, 2019, 04:02:20 PM
With a Hammerhead, you might find it easiest to set your front hardpoints and turrets to autofire, and only manually control your missiles. That way, all you need to concentrate on is firing missiles at vulnerable enemies, movement, shields and Accelerated Ammo Feeder (just press F when you're ready to unload on an enemy - it recharges quite quick so use it often). It sounds like a lot but with a bit of practice you should be able to get the hand of it.

Putting your ship on autopilot might not be the best idea. Your friendly ships act with the expectation that there'll be a flagship, and fight a bit passively to avoid unnecessary ship losses. It's best if you're piloting manually, so that you can try and make pushes or risky movements.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Shad on March 02, 2019, 04:14:06 PM
Newb here.  I've played through the combat tutorials and the campaign tutorial, and I pretty much suck at combat.  Specifically, I'm piloting only the Hammerhead and trying to strafe using the shift key.  I find it very awkward to manage the shift key, WASD, shields and alternating weapons all at the same time.  I have not been pausing in combat but maybe I should. 

I'm an old guy, and reflexes are gone anyway, but I would like to know if there are things I could do that might make combat less awkward, particularly for my left hand on the keyboard.  Or maybe I just need to practice.  Or put it on autopilot ;).

Thanks for any tips.  Other than that, I'm loving the game.
Hammerhead is not a very newbie friendly ship. It's relatively slow, it has very narrow arcs of fire and massive turret blind spots. Start with a mobile ship. The Wolf is probably one of the best for that. It's got speed, it's got generous weapon choices. At destroyer level, get Medusa for the same reasons.

Or just take it easy on the piloting and sit back in a carrier like the Drover or Heron behind friendly ships.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Thaago on March 02, 2019, 04:43:31 PM
Newb here.  I've played through the combat tutorials and the campaign tutorial, and I pretty much suck at combat.  Specifically, I'm piloting only the Hammerhead and trying to strafe using the shift key.  I find it very awkward to manage the shift key, WASD, shields and alternating weapons all at the same time.  I have not been pausing in combat but maybe I should. 

I'm an old guy, and reflexes are gone anyway, but I would like to know if there are things I could do that might make combat less awkward, particularly for my left hand on the keyboard.  Or maybe I just need to practice.  Or put it on autopilot ;).

Thanks for any tips.  Other than that, I'm loving the game.
Hammerhead is not a very newbie friendly ship. It's relatively slow, it has very narrow arcs of fire and massive turret blind spots. Start with a mobile ship. The Wolf is probably one of the best for that. It's got speed, it's got generous weapon choices. At destroyer level, get Medusa for the same reasons.

Or just take it easy on the piloting and sit back in a carrier like the Drover or Heron behind friendly ships.

I disagree with the first part of this; it sounds like the OP is having some trouble getting used to managing lots of things at once, and a highly mobile ship is usually worse in this regard (phase skimmer is pretty unforgiving, and the Medusa has an Omni shield!). Hammerhead is a good ship for beginners because it doesn't have those fancy tricks but has the firepower to be solid.

Carrier piloting is a good idea though - this can give practice at handling ships without the pressure of being in the front line.

With a Hammerhead, you might find it easiest to set your front hardpoints and turrets to autofire, and only manually control your missiles. That way, all you need to concentrate on is firing missiles at vulnerable enemies, movement, shields and Accelerated Ammo Feeder (just press F when you're ready to unload on an enemy - it recharges quite quick so use it often). It sounds like a lot but with a bit of practice you should be able to get the hand of it.

...
^

90% of the time I fly with all guns on autofire and just concentrate on maneuvering, missiles, and deciding if the shield is on or off. Technically I'm wasting flux by keeping the HE guns firing at shields but... most of the time its not that important. Pausing to switch groups is a pretty good idea because things can get pretty hectic as well. Also, if you ever want to hold fire completely without toggling every group, the 'x' key does that by default as a toggle.


the is an option in the settings that inverts shift. this will let you have strafe on by default and shift will then turn it off (opposite action).
I usually just hold down shift because I'm stuck in my ways, but changing it to the inverted mode where you don't need to is a good idea.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Megas on March 02, 2019, 04:50:28 PM
Quote
Technically I'm wasting flux by keeping the HE guns firing at shields but... most of the time its not that important.
I do this too even if I fire weapons manually.  One, even HE puts some hard flux on shield (if not much) and two, either AI sometimes drops shields and eats HE anyway, or keeps shields up and not try to armor-tank kinetic shots.  Enemy may try to flicker shields if you only have kinetics, but not if you mix HE with kinetics.

Ditto when I use fragmentation weapons like Vulcan, Flak, or Thumper.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: tylertoo on March 02, 2019, 07:46:52 PM
Thanks everyone for the great tips!  I had no idea you could invert the shift function so it's always on; I will definitely try that.  I will stick with the Hammerhead for now (and possibly think about a carrier later) and will set front hardpoints and turrets to autofire as suggested.  Those two changes alone, along with a lot of practice, should help.  Onward!
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: AxleMC131 on March 02, 2019, 08:43:49 PM
Hammerhead is not a very newbie friendly ship. It's relatively slow, it has very narrow arcs of fire and massive turret blind spots.

I wholly disagree with this. The Hammerhead is, after the Wolf, THE definitive beginner ship. It has one spot in the rear where turret coverage is limited, yes, but otherwise I don't agree with your points at all.

The Hammerhead has:
- Perfectly adequate mobility for a destroyer
- Above average hull integrity and armour protection
- A wide shield and good flux stats
- A versatile but also punchy weapons loadout that's almost impossible to equip badly
- Good turret coverage to the front and sides, and the ability to converge every single weapon forwards
- A brutally simple "press F to profit" ship system with basically zero drawbacks to using
- A low maintenance profile

And it's also the ship the player is taught to use in the main menu tutorials, so when they start playing the game they've also got some experience in it. All round it's a solid destroyer that can fulfill basically any role and is extremely easy to use.

(The Wolf I would say beats the Hammerhead on all accounts, aside from being a frigate with a narrow shield and much lower survivability if it gets hit. The Wolf also has capable weapons and the flux grid to back them up, plus carries what I consider the most forgiving ship system in the game that allows quick escapes if the player screws up badly.)



@tylertoo Yup glad you know about the invert shift function now, many people have trouble with the default strafe controls so knowing that you can flip it is always handy. Definitely keep with the Hammerhead since it's so easy to learn, but if you'd prefer something smaller and nippier (but also less able to take punishment) the Wolf frigate is strongly recommended. Other than that, everything InventorRaccoon said I second.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: TaLaR on March 02, 2019, 08:57:55 PM
Quote
Technically I'm wasting flux by keeping the HE guns firing at shields but... most of the time its not that important.
I do this too even if I fire weapons manually.  One, even HE puts some hard flux on shield (if not much) and two, either AI sometimes drops shields and eats HE anyway, or keeps shields up and not try to armor-tank kinetic shots.  Enemy may try to flicker shields if you only have kinetics, but not if you mix HE with kinetics.

Ditto when I use fragmentation weapons like Vulcan, Flak, or Thumper.

Yep, not really a waste.

Another option to prevent shield-flicker is threat of heavy near insta-hit weapon (like Heavy Blaster or Phase Lance). For these, just pointing the gun at enemy within range produces similar effect (and if they try to armor tank anyway, you can punish them).
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Shad on March 03, 2019, 01:45:10 AM
Hammerhead is not a very newbie friendly ship. It's relatively slow, it has very narrow arcs of fire and massive turret blind spots.

I wholly disagree with this. The Hammerhead is, after the Wolf, THE definitive beginner ship. It has one spot in the rear where turret coverage is limited, yes, but otherwise I don't agree with your points at all.
I'm just going off my experience. Playing Hammerhead early on, nearly made me drop the game due to constant frustration. The Hammerhead is very prone to getting flanked and the bulk of its firepower if forward fixed. It's completely fine when you already know what you are doing, but when you are a beginner who is still getting to grips with manoeuvering, the ship is a nightmare.

As a beginner, I needed a ship that could turn on a dime, with good mobility. The Wolf/Medusa is perfect for this. If you use the flicker defensively, it forgives you for mistakes like being flanked.

But in the end I settled on a Heron in the first playthrough where I survived until the endgame.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Euphytose on March 03, 2019, 03:09:18 AM
The Medusa is definitely, at least in my opinion, the best player piloted destroyer. As for the Hammerhead, I also agree that fixed mounts aren't easy to use. The Enforcer may fit the best "beginner" ship type since it can hit at a very generous angle, is resilient, and has a very simple ship system.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: From a Faster Time on March 03, 2019, 03:35:07 AM
Besides what everybody else has told you, it's just practice and getting used to it.
To put it simply when you start off, every single thing you do manually, once you get used to certain things you do them automatically. The more used to stuff you get the more complexity you add on as your capabilities expand.
In essence, try simulator to practice some ship control, was very helpful to learn any engagement I felt was difficult.
Second, try to pilot the ship yourself as much as possible, handing it off to the AI is more of a "Yeah just clean it up, you can't possibly *** this up".
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: 2_Wycked on March 03, 2019, 05:16:56 AM
the is an option in the settings that inverts shift. this will let you have strafe on by default and shift will then turn it off (opposite action).

Man, I probably have a hundred hours in this game and had no idea you could do this! I've always struggled with strafing so will def try this.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: tylertoo on March 03, 2019, 06:05:04 AM
Thanks again folks, checking in here for help has proven even more helpful than I expected.  What a great community!

So I sheepishly admit I had forgotten about the 'F' key to accelerate ammo, even though it was in the tutorial.  I hadn't been using that at all!

Anyway, based on all this great advice, I'm going to try this for now.  I will:

In essence, try simulator to practice some ship control, was very helpful to learn any engagement I felt was difficult.

Where do I find this simulator?  Is this a reference to the missions?

Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Cyan Leader on March 03, 2019, 06:27:51 AM
On the loadout screen.

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(http://fractalsoftworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/screenshot262.jpg)
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The "Run Simulation" button near the bottom.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: SCC on March 03, 2019, 06:39:36 AM
Look at the bottom buttons in the refit screen. Below Autofit and Strip buttons, there's the "run simulation" button, where you can deploy some enemy ships to test how your current loadout fares.
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Other than that, you can experiment with different key binds.

Also — it's less that the game expects the player to pilot one of the ships manually, it's that it expects player agency. If you don't think you can pilot your ship well, you can leave it on autopilot and spend most of the time on the map, ordering ships around to make them more aggressive. Both grouping ships and issuing eliminate orders are useful for this.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Igncom1 on March 03, 2019, 06:52:32 AM
Also — it's less that the game expects the player to pilot one of the ships manually, it's that it expects player agency. If you don't think you can pilot your ship well, you can leave it on autopilot and spend most of the time on the map, ordering ships around to make them more aggressive. Both grouping ships and issuing eliminate orders are useful for this.

Yeah that's basically how I've been playing all of this time. It's a little different way of playing and managing the AI, but overall it is very rewarding when a plan all comes together.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: tylertoo on March 03, 2019, 07:58:50 AM
On the loadout screen.

Excellent, had not noticed that.  Thanks!

If you don't think you can pilot your ship well, you can leave it on autopilot and spend most of the time on the map, ordering ships around to make them more aggressive. Both grouping ships and issuing eliminate orders are useful for this.

That sounds like it is worth a try also, if I continue to fail in the actual combat.  Onward!
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Goumindong on March 03, 2019, 07:11:29 PM
The main suggestion to be better at combat is to do less.

Generally i only set one group of guns or missiles i am going to bother to try and fire. And if I have to swap mid fight its a pause.

So for the hammerhead the forward turrets go on group 3. The forward guns on group 2. The rear guns on group 4 (or 3 depending) and the missiles on group 1. Everything gets auto except the missiles.

Thwt way i have roughly one thing to do. Hold shift and put my mouse cursor over the enemy i want to shoot. Then i can just position myself relative to my target.

From there you will find that flying, aside from the more complicate ships like the shrike, is more about fitting than it is about flying.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: From a Faster Time on March 04, 2019, 04:37:57 AM
Yeah that's basically how I've been playing all of this time. It's a little different way of playing and managing the AI, but overall it is very rewarding when a plan all comes together.
But doing that and piloting a ship gives the more benefit to your combat success.Unless you are doing a challenge run of "commander only", then I get it.
That sounds like it is worth a try also, if I continue to fail in the actual combat.  Onward!
Only as a last resort, PLEASE. The player has a far bigger potential than the AI and the only way you  will unlock that potential in yourself if you get experience from piloting ships.
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I don't understand....why would you use Flux Distributor, instead of slapping on 20 additional vents?
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Igncom1 on March 04, 2019, 04:54:17 AM
Yeah that's basically how I've been playing all of this time. It's a little different way of playing and managing the AI, but overall it is very rewarding when a plan all comes together.
But doing that and piloting a ship gives the more benefit to your combat success.Unless you are doing a challenge run of "commander only", then I get it.

Oh I know, I've just never really got around to learning and so I never have.

Not even a single play through have I piloted my ship for battles more then one or twice to try it out. I'm not a big fan of the tank controls and don't really know how to dive sideways, so I just let the AI do it. My only challenge is figuring out he right load-outs and strategy to play without ripping my hair out over the AI. But it's much easier then it used to be at least, with carriers being massively powerful due to the AI's fear of fighters that can't harm them.

I have never fought any serious battle myself, at most I'll make a combat ship my command ship due to picking the right buffs, but it's down to the AI to use them.

Pick and choose your battles, become antiquated with how the AI operates, and it's easy enough to play the whole game without personally firing a single shot.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: From a Faster Time on March 04, 2019, 05:07:36 AM
Oh I know, I've just never really got around to learning and so I never have.
Exactly it's a viscous circle, which is why I suggest letting the AI handle it as the absolute last resort.
Pick and choose your battles, become antiquated with how the AI operates, and it's easy enough to play the whole game without personally firing a single shot.
You are missing out on part of the game, a very fun part.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxekeKWcjFA
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Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Euphytose on March 04, 2019, 05:08:06 AM
There's an option that allows you to use arcade controls instead of tank controls.

Alex should really make this default because it's basically mandatory. Piloting a frigate is impossible unless you use this, or have your finger on shift all the time.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: From a Faster Time on March 04, 2019, 05:13:10 AM
There's an option that allows you to use arcade controls instead of tank controls.
Alex should really make this default because it's basically mandatory. Piloting a frigate is impossible unless you use this, or have your finger on shift all the time.
I dunno, I always used the default controls and hold shift whenever it is needed. Really you mix the two things mid combat a lot depending on how you want the ship to move/shoot.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Euphytose on March 04, 2019, 05:34:53 AM
I almost never use tank controls. The only ship I need to use it with is the Conquest, or basically any other broadside ship. Otherwise I may briefly press it to shield my back to catch a torpedo or such. If that reverse behaviour wasn't there I think I probably wouldn't play the game.

I'm just hoping at some point he adds a toggle on top of a press to activate.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: TaLaR on March 04, 2019, 06:25:33 AM
There's an option that allows you to use arcade controls instead of tank controls.
Alex should really make this default because it's basically mandatory. Piloting a frigate is impossible unless you use this, or have your finger on shift all the time.
I dunno, I always used the default controls and hold shift whenever it is needed. Really you mix the two things mid combat a lot depending on how you want the ship to move/shoot.
Same here.
- It's easier to remember to release shift when you need to quickly turn omni-shield behind, than remembering to keep shift pressed while you are doing it.
- You don't need to turn Hyperion to it's teleport destination (and doing so mindlessly could expose engines). Just need to release key, same as above.
- Piloting Conquest or Shrike(=broadside) takes more keys (need both turn and strafe keys simultaneously) than normal turn-to-cursor ships. Having to hold shift in process wouldn't help.

Doesn't mean I use tank controls that often outside of above scenarios.I just turn-to-cursor with shift pressed.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Megas on March 04, 2019, 06:34:59 AM
What are tank controls?  WADS or WADX and the like?  If so, I have used tank controls for various games over the decades and they seem natural to me.  I would not want so-called tank controls to lose their default status.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Euphytose on March 04, 2019, 07:04:40 AM
- Piloting Conquest or Shrike(=broadside) takes more keys (need both turn and strafe keys simultaneously) than normal turn-to-cursor ships. Having to hold shift in process wouldn't help.

Which is why I'd like a toggle. Admittedly it's very easy to do with AHK but it's probably not that hard to add to the game.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: SCC on March 04, 2019, 07:14:06 AM
Tank controls are the default controls in Starsector. I find them more useful when flying bigger or non-frontal firepower focused ships, where positioning becomes more important than facing the enemy perfectly.
I wonder if locking ship's facing towards a specific ship, to free up mouse for better shield control, would be viable or not.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Euphytose on March 04, 2019, 08:24:14 AM
That's a neat idea.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: tylertoo on March 04, 2019, 06:07:29 PM
Thanks guys.  I'm going to keep trying, but I probably have to change the thread title to "I really, really suck at combat."  Last evening I tried missions (the easy ones) and some more campaign fights and I just can't get the hang of it.  I just don't control the ship movement very well and end up getting into trouble too easily.  I'm probably better off getting carrier and hanging back.  Maybe I should also try a new start with the Wolf, just to see how that feels.  Or, I'm going to try (still with Hammerhead) setting all three to autofire, including missiles, so I can just focus on ship positioning.

There's an option that allows you to use arcade controls instead of tank controls.

Where do I find this option?  Or is this just a reference to the shift key default option?
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Alex on March 04, 2019, 06:36:41 PM
Hmm - you know, what I think might not be a bad idea is loading up the "Combat (basic)" tutorial, getting to the part where it asks you to strafe around the enemy Enforcer, and then just spending a bit of time to see if you can't get comfortable with that, without the pressure of firing or being concerned about other enemies.

See if you can circle all the way around it while staying in weapons range, then see if you can manage to stay closer/further, then try putting some shots on it while you circle it, and so on. Just being comfortable with this sort of maneuvering is super important to doing well in combat with most ships.

One tricky part is getting the hang of what strafe left/right mean when you're facing down (still left/right, but it's relative to the ship); getting comfortable with that is also fairly important, but not *super* critical as you start most fights facing up.

Also: in data/config/settings.json, there's a "combatSpeedMult" setting. Setting it to something lower than 1 might be something to try to see if a slower pace feels more manageable.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: tylertoo on March 04, 2019, 06:45:55 PM
OK, thanks, those sound like good suggestions.  I'll give both a try.

EDIT:  Moving the combat speed multiplier to .7 (from 1) made a huge difference for me.  It didn't feel too slow and I felt far less frantic.  I easily beat the first two (easy) missions and came very close to beating the third (medium) -- that's a huge improvement for me.  So thank you Alex.  As I get better I will inch that multiplier up in .1 increments and then eventually get back to 1. 
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on March 04, 2019, 07:24:44 PM
Yeah, the combat speed is a BIG thing: I grew up playing SS on a series of craptops and only recently can my comp handle full speed combat. I will say it is like night and day and if I had not started out on the lower speeds, I would have most likely set my speed back down to half.

Once you get comfy with the controls, you might try missions again. And I second the SIM in the refit menu. You can access it from both mission and campaign refit menus and is invaluable to training and getting use to handling SS ships. And because it is a SIM, you don't take losses in the campaign
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: AxleMC131 on March 04, 2019, 09:09:44 PM
Combat speed is an incredible suggestion actually. It's not something I've heard much about until recent times, and I'd never considered using it to help ease into the game as a beginner player, but now it's been said it makes an awful lot of sense. Points to Alex for suggesting that - I'll try to remember it as advice for other new players popping into the Discord.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Euphytose on March 05, 2019, 01:43:39 AM
There's an option that allows you to use arcade controls instead of tank controls.

Where do I find this option?  Or is this just a reference to the shift key default option?

It's in the option menu. Not the one with the keybindings, the other one. I think it's called "revert something behaviour". There aren't that many options so you can't miss it.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: From a Faster Time on March 05, 2019, 04:24:23 AM
OK, thanks, those sound like good suggestions.  I'll give both a try.
Feel free to post some video recordings of your gameplay of ship vs ship battles. I am sure people can give you more advise on what you could improve further.
~Do the tutorial until you are comfortable~
Amen. While we are on that, it really irks me when people skip tutorials in general. I do tutorials in every game because that is the developer reaching out to the player to give some of the most important notes on how the game plays, be it strategy, controls or whatever. To skip that you either imply the game has no depth, or is so similar to something you have played that it presents zero deviance in terms of controls/strategy/gameplay elements.
Also: in data/config/settings.json, there's a "combatSpeedMult" setting. Setting it to something lower than 1 might be something to try to see if a slower pace feels more manageable.
Neat, didn't know this existed, might try bumping it up to 1.3 and see what life is like in the fast lane.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Megas on March 05, 2019, 04:48:14 AM
Neat, didn't know this existed, might try bumping it up to 1.3 and see what life is like in the fast lane.
I set mine to 2f, and it still plays slower than other games like Transcendence or Endless Sky.  Normal 1f is unbearably slow.  I would set it to 2.5f or 3f, except Starsector starts to lose gameplay fidelity at speeds higher than 2f.  Sounds may not play at the proper times, and hit detection may be (subtly) different.

That is the only setting I am willing to change (reluctantly) in the settings.json, and only because I probably would drop Starsector due to agonizingly slow gameplay at normal speed.  If I touch other settings, I probably change enough to make my character extremely overpowered.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: From a Faster Time on March 05, 2019, 04:52:55 AM
Neat, didn't know this existed, might try bumping it up to 1.3 and see what life is like in the fast lane.
I set mine to 2f, and it still plays slower than other games like Transcendence or Endless Sky.  Normal 1f is unbearably slow.  I would set it to 2.5f or 3f, except Starsector starts to lose gameplay fidelity at speeds higher than 2f.  Sounds may not play at the proper times, and hit detection may be (subtly) different.

That is the only setting I am willing to change (reluctantly) in the settings.json, and only because I probably would drop Starsector due to agonizingly slow gameplay at normal speed.  If I touch other settings, I probably change enough to make my character extremely overpowered.
Post a vid with 2f.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Megas on March 05, 2019, 05:01:25 AM
I do not post vids.  (Not creating an account to do so.)
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: From a Faster Time on March 05, 2019, 05:21:18 AM
I do not post vids.  (Not creating an account to do so.)
Post a webm? No accounts needed for that.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: tylertoo on March 05, 2019, 05:37:41 PM
Feel free to post some video recordings of your gameplay of ship vs ship battles. I am sure people can give you more advise on what you could improve further.

Thanks for the offer.  I'll probably be too embarrassed to record my suckage  ;D but lemme think about it.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: From a Faster Time on March 06, 2019, 12:49:15 AM
Thanks for the offer.  I'll probably be too embarrassed to record my suckage  ;D but lemme think about it.
Sure, just saying if you have troubles,  and don't know where to improve, I am sure people could give you plenty of advise on what to work on that is tailored specific to you and thus, one would assume, the fastest way to improve.
Naturally you can just play the game and have fun, learning along the way like everybody else did. Nobody says you have to tryhard to get good as fast as possible.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Euphytose on March 06, 2019, 01:26:35 AM
Post a vid with 2f.

Find any video of Starsector combat running at standard speed, change the video speed to 2x.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: TaLaR on March 06, 2019, 01:27:48 AM
Post a vid with 2f.
Find any video of Starsector combat running at standard speed, change the video speed to 2x.
Not the same. Point is - it's impossible to control with same fidelity (for most people, including me, anyway).
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Cosmitz on March 07, 2019, 02:46:13 AM
Chiming in, but what i've found helps a lot of people is keeping the C/Z/X key, or whichever is the one that brings your ship to a halt, down for as long as you fly. It'll remove the Newtonian flight model somewhat, ofc, giving you a disadvantage and a sore finger from keeping it down, but it does help to making sure you don't end up drifting away without wanting to.

To be ultra fair, i don't think the game has any visual indicators for the direction you're drifting in. Low-key idle/active engine FX just acting as 'trails' may help with that visual indication.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: TaLaR on March 07, 2019, 03:02:20 AM
To be ultra fair, i don't think the game has any visual indicators for the direction you're drifting in. Low-key idle/active engine FX just acting as 'trails' may help with that visual indication.

I had an experimental mini-mod that among other things draws speed vector for piloted ship and target.
Own vector is especially important for skimmer ships. Target vector is huge help for finesse jump attacks with Hyperion (with how after teleport facing works, you need to jump along target speed vector behind or ahead of them).
Didn't update it from 0.81 though... http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=13363.0
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Alex on March 07, 2019, 09:10:01 AM
To be ultra fair, i don't think the game has any visual indicators for the direction you're drifting in. Low-key idle/active engine FX just acting as 'trails' may help with that visual indication.

(There's a starfield or "dust" motes that move relative to your ship's velocity; it's there precisely for this purpose. It's fairly subtle, though - kind of has to or it'd be annoying.)
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Cosmitz on March 09, 2019, 02:33:16 AM
*Cosmo just exiting the game* Oh wow, you're right. The things players take for granted i guess. :) Still, the dust (just the 'mid/top' layer?) does 'spiral' around your ship when you change heading, disorientating while you do that since the 'drift' helper mostly disappears in that case or just gets lost in the jumble.

The engine trail/wake when applying acceleration is helpful in that regard, but maybe it would help to have a tiny bit of trail or engine flare drift-active when at idle engines. Even if only for the controlled ship. (also i notice now that the wake lenght differs (smaller) in regard to whether you're applying full forward thrust or side thrust which makes sense to signal that the ship applies less 'acceleration' sidestrafing than moving forward, but given the max speed attainable is still the same, wouldn't the wake lenght be useful to be corespondent to the ship's current speed? The visual indicator would be roughly the same as the ship sidestrafing would get to 'full wake' in more time than just bursting forward. Also indeed, moving backwards has no 'wake'.)
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Megas on March 09, 2019, 05:43:04 AM
(There's a starfield or "dust" motes that move relative to your ship's velocity; it's there precisely for this purpose. It's fairly subtle, though - kind of has to or it'd be annoying.)
What starfield?  The only thing that looks remotely like a starfield (to me) is the wallpaper background, which is cloudy.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Flix on March 09, 2019, 11:53:14 AM
Thanks everyone for the great tips!  I had no idea you could invert the shift function so it's always on; I will definitely try that.  I will stick with the Hammerhead for now (and possibly think about a carrier later) and will set front hardpoints and turrets to autofire as suggested.  Those two changes alone, along with a lot of practice, should help.  Onward!

I've been playing this game for 5 years and just found out you could invert the shift key. I,m not sure how I managed so far not knowing that! Welcome to a great game and community by the way. This is a nice place.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Alex on March 09, 2019, 11:59:32 AM
What starfield?  The only thing that looks remotely like a starfield (to me) is the wallpaper background, which is cloudy.

If you run a simulation and just move forward in any ship, note the dim ... stars? ... that move against the background. They look pretty much like part of the background when you're not moving. These are what I mean.

*Cosmo just exiting the game* Oh wow, you're right. The things players take for granted i guess. :) Still, the dust (just the 'mid/top' layer?) does 'spiral' around your ship when you change heading, disorientating while you do that since the 'drift' helper mostly disappears in that case or just gets lost in the jumble.

Hmm, not sure what you mean by "spiral". It should just continue to move opposite the direction of your absolute velocity.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: SCC on March 09, 2019, 12:14:49 PM
For what it's worth, I've noticed this things long ago and while now I have to remind myself they are there, I rarely ever have issues locating my current vector. I might be using them unconsciously for that purpose.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Thaago on March 09, 2019, 02:38:50 PM
For what it's worth, I've noticed this things long ago and while now I have to remind myself they are there, I rarely ever have issues locating my current vector. I might be using them unconsciously for that purpose.

I think this is what I do at this point - the visual cues work in that I have learned to always know my vector, even when crazy stuff happens (flamed out and rammed by a burn drive ship is a fun time).
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: Plantissue on March 11, 2019, 01:24:28 PM
What gets me is if I am stationary and there are no other visual fixing points and there are some rocks drifting on screen, fooling that I am indeed stationary.
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: diegoweiller on March 19, 2019, 01:30:36 PM
Jesus... use a controller then if its so hard to pillot... all you need to do is change some settings...or rebind the damn shift to alt... ¬¬'
Title: Re: The 'I suck at combat' thread.
Post by: angrytigerp on March 19, 2019, 03:32:21 PM
Yeah, OP, I feel your pain. I'm only 28 years young and basically have my left pinkie contorted over to shift the entirety of any Starsector playthrough (I do about one a year and/or every time Alex adds a radical amount of stuff) between campaign speed up and point to cursor. By the end of the week or two and I kind of feel satisfied and/or get bored, my pinkie is killing me.

One of the things you might consider is rebinding the key to something you can more easily reach, though I see even here on page 4 people have already suggested that.