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Starsector => Mods => Topic started by: Straticus on January 13, 2019, 12:26:56 PM

Title: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Straticus on January 13, 2019, 12:26:56 PM
(https://straticjeff.github.io/vesperon/doc/images/flag.png)

Vesperon Combine

Download latest version here (https://github.com/straticJeff/vesperon/archive/v1.2.0.zip)

The Vesperon Combine is a secretive organisation that has data-mined intelligence on a number of hidden sites, created after the Collapse, that hold treasures for the would-be industrialist. For a very reasonable fee, it will provide a dossier containing the locations - and more importantly, the specific scanning frequencies needed to find them - to its members. But beware - the people who built these sites may have left a surprise or two behind...

(https://straticjeff.github.io/vesperon/doc/images/vesp1.png)

(https://straticjeff.github.io/vesperon/doc/images/vesp4.png)


Beyond the fluff, this is a small, lore-friendly...ish mod for those who are frustrated by the limited number of opportunities to find All The Things - well, blueprints at least - in a single playthrough. The opportunity to buy access to more locations as they crop up makes the experience repeatable, until the player can construct everything that is boardable and obtainable in the game. The flipside of this approach is that it will probably allow blueprints to drop for things that authors didn't intend, but things like derelicts and [REDACTED] should be filtered out.

I've tested this with what I consider the highest-quality mods on the board, including Nexerelin; if you notice any crashes, particularly when salvaging a facility, please let me know so I can investigate.

Features:


Planned:


Changelog:
Spoiler
v1.2.0
---

- Add a second recruiter
- Move recruiters around independent worlds more reliably
- Vesperon cache reps spawn/despawn dynamically on worlds run by Independent authorities
- ...and also player colonies, for extra convenience :slightly_smiling_face:

v1.1.2
---

- Fixed crash on referenced ships/weapons/fighters not existing

1.1.1
---

- Updated available vanilla blueprint whitelist to use fighter wing IDs, not fighter hull IDs
- Prevent Remnant and BB spawn breakage

1.1.0
---

- Added whitelisting system for other mods to opt-in
    - Add to `data/config/vesperon_blueprints.json` to whitelist content
    - See example vanilla config file
- Whitelisted all (obtainable) vanilla blueprints
- Slightly optimised VesperonIntelManager to not load new JSON structs all the time
- Move the Vesperon rep around once every 60 days to make sure market decivs (et al) can't break the mod
[close]

Spoiler
(https://straticjeff.github.io/vesperon/doc/images/vesp6.png)
[close]

For v1.0.0 it'll no doubt suffer from "My First Mod" syndrome, so please don't expect a bug-free or well-balanced experience, and feel free to leave feedback. Have fun! ;D
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: cjuicy on January 13, 2019, 12:37:13 PM
MORE EXPLORATION GOODIES  ;D


On a more serious note, I'm throwing this in my mod folder right now! I'll let you know if I see anything weird.

*EDIT* I'm also going to recommend you take a looksie at the unofficial discord, which can be found on this link. There are a lot of people you can ask to help bug-hunt, balance test, and otherwise have fun with the mod. http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=11488.0 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=11488.0)
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Monsterhunterer on January 13, 2019, 04:21:50 PM
Hey just wanted to let you know I am getting a crash related to the Granite from the XLU mod
99745 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull spec [xlu_granite] not found!
java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull spec [xlu_granite] not found!
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.do.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.settings.StarfarerSettings$1.getHullSpec(Unknown Source)
   at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.intel.VesperonIntelManager.getKnown BlueprintsForFaction(VesperonIntelManager.java:263)
   at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.intel.VesperonIntelManager.<init>(VesperonIntelManager.java:64)
   at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.intel.bar.events.VesperonMembership BarEvent.<init>(VesperonMembershipBarEvent.java:47)
   at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.intel.bar.events.VesperonMembership BarEventCreator.createBarEvent(VesperonMembershipBarEventCreator.java:8)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.intel.bar.events.BarEventManager.advance(BarEventManager.java:166)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
 
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on January 13, 2019, 05:59:51 PM
This seems like a BAD idea for several reasons:
-It breaks the number one ethics rule in any kind of modding, starsector modding or otherwise: Allow mods to OPT IN, don't force other modders to opt out or "code around" your mod. It makes it easier on both parties and helps with bug hunting. And by the looks of it, I'm not even seeing a way to opt out either...
-This breaks hidden content and secrets in vanilla. Hell it could even lead to bugs due to grabbing something that is part of a quest chain or something.
-This can break hidden content in MANY mods. Content that is supposed to be a hidden little surprise for those that find it or do a quest chain.
-It ROYALLY breaks immersion. Now I know that many mods also break immersion as well, but this is supposed to be lore friendly-ish. Yet why haven't the other factions either threatened, hired or bought off these guys and used them to strip the Sector clean of tech?
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: MesoTroniK on January 13, 2019, 07:06:45 PM
Welcome to modding Starsector Straticus.

Hell is full of good wishes and desires. Now what did I mean by that in this case? I will be totally honest with you, this mod is ill-conceived in execution and arguably also conceptually.

Conceptually speaking? It cheapens the game by creating monolithic locations to find blueprints for stuff, making it so that where the player thinks they need to find X blueprint that belongs to Y faction that can be raided etc is no longer the exclusive case.

Speaking of execution? What is ideal in these sorts of cases and 99% of similar things is a whitelist .csv where X blueprints will not appear in your rig at all unless they are listed! Also, as far as I can tell (my apologies if I missed it), there is no mergeable blacklist .csv file to make your rig ignore X blueprints. Even if there was, that is far from ideal.

As Midnight said, it is ethically *highly* frowned upon to create work for other modders. So them having to do nothing unless they want their content to appear? Is by far the best practice :)


Anyways, I please ask you to think about how this mod of yours effects other modders and their content which often is meant to be hidden or least difficult to source or even impossible to begin with.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Straticus on January 14, 2019, 01:54:15 AM
Thanks for the honest comments.

Quote from: MesoTroniK on January 13, 2019, 07:06:45 PM
Speaking of execution? What is ideal in these sorts of cases and 99% of similar things is a whitelist .csv where X blueprints will not appear in your rig at all unless they are listed! Also, as far as I can tell (my apologies if I missed it), there is no mergeable blacklist .csv file to make your rig ignore X blueprints. Even if there was, that is far from ideal.

As Midnight said, it is ethically *highly* frowned upon to create work for other modders. So them having to do nothing unless they want their content to appear? Is by far the best practice Smiley

Anyways, I please ask you to think about how this mod of yours effects other modders and their content which often is meant to be hidden or least difficult to source or even impossible to begin with.

Quote from: Midnight Kitsune on January 13, 2019, 05:59:51 PM
-It breaks the number one ethics rule in any kind of modding, starsector modding or otherwise: Allow mods to OPT IN, don't force other modders to opt out or "code around" your mod. It makes it easier on both parties and helps with bug hunting. And by the looks of it, I'm not even seeing a way to opt out either...

...

-This can break hidden content in MANY mods. Content that is supposed to be a hidden little surprise for those that find it or do a quest chain.

Yeah, I have to admit the range of blueprints that can be spawned at the moment isn't filtered particularly well. I've been using hints for filters and realise that this approach doesn't exclude much of the content that isn't supposed to be found in blueprint form in mods.

I've taken some advice from the folks on Discord and will be restricting the scope for the next version to blueprints that are tagged as droppable or are part of packages in-game as its default configuration; this should remove the need for black/white-listing and be more fair to other mods for whom certain blueprints that aren't meant to be available through random drops.

Hopefully this revised approach should allay some of these concerns, although I'd appreciate any advice on whether this might still cause support problems for other modders, which I've realised the mod in its current form can create.

Quote from: MesoTroniK on January 13, 2019, 07:06:45 PM
Conceptually speaking? It cheapens the game by creating monolithic locations to find blueprints for stuff, making it so that where the player thinks they need to find X blueprint that belongs to Y faction that can be raided etc is no longer the exclusive case.

I have to disagree on that point: the current raiding mechanics, as far as a method to obtain the rest of the blueprints are concerned, seem to me to push the player down one of three routes:
1) Raid continuously until you have everything, to the point there's nothing left and the market decivilises
2) Save then reload repeatedly until you get the outcome you want
3) Raid repeatedly, but with enough time between raids to allow the market to recover, which takes a very long time in-game

Personally, and I suppose controversially, I don't like either of these: it's the only facet of vanilla which I feel is a little too gamey, which is why I made this. The credit cost should keep it as an end-game activity, and there's also a varied level of challenge to accompany most of the facilities the mod creates, although I appreciate this needs a lot more tuning.

Quote from: Midnight Kitsune on January 13, 2019, 05:59:51 PM
-This breaks hidden content and secrets in vanilla. Hell it could even lead to bugs due to grabbing something that is part of a quest chain or something.

I haven't noticed this myself; as far as I can tell the mod should only create its own entities, and the only existing ones it should interact with are independent markets that should only have a new bar event and a person added to their comm directory. Could you elaborate?
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: MesoTroniK on January 14, 2019, 03:25:02 AM
No automatic filtering system you devise that factors in various tags will *ever* be good enough to cover how folks want their mod content to work reliably. It is a big Modiverse out there, and the various lore factors, rarities, possible connections to quests while still being possible to find randomly, and etc etc ad-infinity goes on and on :)

Please do a white list, as that makes the most folks happy. Barring that at least please do a black list.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: mendonca on January 14, 2019, 03:44:14 AM
This is really interesting - excuse my possible ignorance as I may be making inferrals that aren't accurate - but does the mod iterate over e.g. all rare_bp's; or if contained in a pack (i.e. as defined in specialitems.csv)? And then decide whether they are fair game from that?

I can see how this may be an issue for some mods that want to gate access in cleverer ways that may clash with this.

I guess the point is that 'Vesperon Combine' could start by co-opting all vanilla blueprints and then a mod-specific whitelist could 'opt-in' to be compatible on a ship-by-ship / item-by-item basis?

This frees up others to create exploration-based mods (or exploration based content within wider-ranging mods) without having to explicitly design around potential other mods such as this one?
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Cyan Leader on January 14, 2019, 07:03:05 AM
You are not responsible for your mod potentially ruining others, the users mixing and matching should take that responsibility. Put a fair warning in your description and let people make their own decision if they'd like to use your mod or not.

I'm not saying to not improve this mod, I think that MesoTroniK and Midnight Kitsune gave excellent feedback that you should consider following in order to better integrate your mod to the current ecosystem, but if your intention was to create a mod that allows users access to "secret" content then by all means you should be allowed to distribute and develop it.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Straticus on January 14, 2019, 08:07:51 AM
Quote from: mendonca on January 14, 2019, 03:44:14 AM
This is really interesting - excuse my possible ignorance as I may be making inferrals that aren't accurate - but does the mod iterate over e.g. all rare_bp's; or if contained in a pack (i.e. as defined in specialitems.csv)? And then decide whether they are fair game from that?

I can see how this may be an issue for some mods that want to gate access in cleverer ways that may clash with this.

I guess the point is that 'Vesperon Combine' could start by co-opting all vanilla blueprints and then a mod-specific whitelist could 'opt-in' to be compatible on a ship-by-ship / item-by-item basis?

This frees up others to create exploration-based mods (or exploration based content within wider-ranging mods) without having to explicitly design around potential other mods such as this one?

The current approach is to iterate over each faction, determine which blueprints that faction possesses, and then filter stations, unboardables, things hidden in the codex, and anything with modules.

Quote from: MesoTroniK on January 14, 2019, 03:25:02 AM
No automatic filtering system you devise that factors in various tags will *ever* be good enough to cover how folks want their mod content to work reliably. It is a big Modiverse out there, and the various lore factors, rarities, possible connections to quests while still being possible to find randomly, and etc etc ad-infinity goes on and on :)

Please do a white list, as that makes the most folks happy. Barring that at least please do a black list.

I have mixed feelings about a whitelist approach, as at the outset it would negate most of the value proposition of what I had in mind (as a player wanting to prolong the endgame). However, I accept your point about ethics and would rather be fair to other modders than *** them off by compromising their artistic visions without them specifically opting in, or causing them support issues for things outside of their control.

Meso, I've only just grokked you as the author of Tiandong (for which I'm really looking forward to your 0.9 release BTW ;D). How would you feel about whitelisting as a default mode as you suggest, but then have an alternate mode - which might use some combination of 'rare_bp' or package inclusion tags - as an option for players who prefer this approach to manually opt into outside of the game? (e.g. by setting a flag in a JSON config)
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Wyvern on January 14, 2019, 09:25:15 AM
As a replacement for raiding, I'd say you need two additional things:
A check on whether or not the faction has any markets with heavy industry that could be raided - for example, the Blade Breakers faction from Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering has no raidable facilities, and its blueprints should not be available to the player.
A large relationship penalty for going after a cache that's tuned to a specific faction, at least equivalent to conducting several raids with transponder off.
  Edit: The idea here being that you'd have something like "We've located a Hegemony supply cache," and then looting that would give rewards that you could otherwise only get from raiding a Hegemony world.

"Independent" or "Pirate" caches that use the game's normal exploration-reward logic would also be reasonable, though they'd never contain raid-only items like the Hegemony's XIV blueprints.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Harmful Mechanic on January 14, 2019, 09:42:40 AM
As someone with a lot of hidden content; please, blacklist my mod by default. I get enough people holding me responsible for vanilla features or other mods' design flaws; I don't need them complaining to me because your mod made my hidden content purchasable and that broke the game.

A whitelist is the least bad option. I get that it's slightly more work on your end, but it's a ton less on our end.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: MesoTroniK on January 14, 2019, 06:40:33 PM
Quote from: Cyan Leader on January 14, 2019, 07:03:05 AM
You are not responsible for your mod potentially ruining others, the users mixing and matching should take that responsibility. Put a fair warning in your description and let people make their own decision if they'd like to use your mod or not.

Well, actually he is (also it isn't even potentially, it *will* break other mods)... And honestly when someone makes something that breaks other mods to varying degrees? If it is not corrected, the easiest, smartest, and best course of action is to just take the "soft" incompatibility and make it a "hard" one. If someone wants to make something like that? Sure, more power to them, and such a mod has a term... A total conversion! But doesn't mean folks won't try to recommend a better way to do things and failing that? What I just said is all that is left that can be done.


Quote from: Straticus on January 14, 2019, 08:07:51 AM
Quote from: MesoTroniK on January 14, 2019, 03:25:02 AM
No automatic filtering system you devise that factors in various tags will *ever* be good enough to cover how folks want their mod content to work reliably. It is a big Modiverse out there, and the various lore factors, rarities, possible connections to quests while still being possible to find randomly, and etc etc ad-infinity goes on and on :)

Please do a white list, as that makes the most folks happy. Barring that at least please do a black list.

I have mixed feelings about a whitelist approach, as at the outset it would negate most of the value proposition of what I had in mind (as a player wanting to prolong the endgame). However, I accept your point about ethics and would rather be fair to other modders than *** them off by compromising their artistic visions without them specifically opting in, or causing them support issues for things outside of their control.

Meso, I've only just grokked you as the author of Tiandong (for which I'm really looking forward to your 0.9 release BTW ;D). How would you feel about whitelisting as a default mode as you suggest, but then have an alternate mode - which might use some combination of 'rare_bp' or package inclusion tags - as an option for players who prefer this approach to manually opt into outside of the game? (e.g. by setting a flag in a JSON config)

I don't feel having that as a player settable option is really the right move. It just means it breaks things... Optionally, and still has all the same problems of messing with other mods. Straticus, I am trying to be real here that a mod of this type, has to be made very carefully as it will indeed if not done very carefully? Have unforeseen and foreseen consequences for other mods. A white list as the default and only option is really the best course of action, pretty much every other modder will also tell you this :)
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Harmful Mechanic on January 14, 2019, 06:47:47 PM
Having a toggle for something like that is a cop-out. If a suboptimal behavior is available, people will use it, and it will break things, and the person whose mod you broke has to figure it out, because the bug report is in their thread.

Look. Think about this from the perspective of someone maintaining a faction mod; you think you've locked away your hidden exploration content, but you keep getting bug reports you can't reproduce, saying that your content is available for purchase, or unbalanced, or that it's missing core functionality; it doesn't build from custom production. You tell people you don't know what's going on, you're doing everything right; you spend a couple sleepless nights testing it, it all works fine on your machine. Then you find out it was due to another mod that you had no control over.

End users don't know what mod does what; some of them don't know what content comes from what mod. They don't post modlists or screenshots consistently, they have odd nonsense names for things, don't give details, alter your mod and don't tell you... They don't know that it's your mod and not mine that's causing the problem, which means that your mod broke it, but because my mod has the visuals, I'm on the hook for it. And this is assuming a polite response; lots of 'bug reports' are an angry person yelling at you that you're a dickless loser trying to ruin their game with your broken OP Mary Sue garbage because you made a design choice they don't like.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Singrana on January 14, 2019, 09:11:17 PM
regarding the whole "it cheapens the game" concern, i have played 2 full rounds of vanilla, now only nexerelin, i have had my fill of doing any kind of exploration ever again, it was fun to collect the first time but it will never be fun again, so having the production mechanics of planets be behind the BP`s is something i dont like, now nexerelin allows you to buy BP`s it seems so its not a very large concern there, but i can see someone who just wants vanilla and also not having to collect blueprints in a very tedious way would want to use this or just somehow spawn in the BP items with console commands
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Arkar1234 on January 14, 2019, 10:46:49 PM
Honestly, I wouldn't even mind if it accidentally breaks or hampers some other mod-dynamics. Sure, this should be flagged as "Might break the exploration value of other mods/base game. So use at your own risk" before it gets the compatibility issues sorted out... but... It's a neat little QoL mod.

The long grind for BPs gets... well... grindy, after while. and there can only be so many systems I can slog through before boredom sets in.
So an option to have a more direct and guaranteed result is appreciated tbh.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: AxleMC131 on January 14, 2019, 10:58:01 PM
Gotta say I'm in agreement with Meso and Soren on this subject. While I'm sure the incentive for this mod was positive (It's a cool idea, for sure!), it really does have the potential to hurt mods, and directly mod users and mod makers. Even I have personal qualms about such a concept - I might only maintain a humble little ship pack, not a full-blown faction mod, but I've got content I don't want the player to have "easy access" to. I mean, if you want to edit Disassemble Reassemble's files so the Sturmovik (S) has a blueprint and can be produced at your colonies? Fine by me! But I'd be very concerned by a separate mod that did that for you, with no regard to why such a ship was inaccessible to begin with.

Spoiler

And this doesn't even begin to talk about Tartiflette's plans for Seeker, which aims to involve a huge amount of quest-driven content and unique - as in, there is only actually one of them - ships.

[close]

It's a nice idea for a mod that I'm sure lots of players will like, but it's undoubtedly going to be a huge headache for mod makers. Really, I think Soren put it in the best words possible.

Quote
End users don't know what mod does what; some of them don't know what content comes from what mod. They don't post modlists or screenshots consistently, they have odd nonsense names for things, don't give details, alter your mod and don't tell you... They don't know that it's your mod and not mine that's causing the problem, which means that your mod broke it, but because my mod has the visuals, I'm on the hook for it.
(Points to Soren btw, he makes things crystal clear.)

Something like this has potential to be a popular mod, but it really needs at the minimum a blacklist, and at best a whitelist. Personally I don't recommend a disclaimer or warning on the forum page. Seriously, the kind of mod users that Soren is concerned about are probably the kind of people who don't read stuff like that. If you want to make it foolproof, you have to take fools into account.

That in mind, I wish you the best of luck in the modding scene. Seriously. When someone brings something new and cool to the table, it's gonna get eyes on. And where there's attention, there's feedback and support. Those are always good things, and they'll make your mod even better.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Null Ganymede on January 14, 2019, 10:59:41 PM
Well-integrated, but a little easy. Factions send murderfleets for a few % of market share, guaranteed blueprints for lost technology? That's a worth a double murderfleet at least. It's the stuff that Profit Factor from Rogue Trader is made of.

Not to mention giving blueprints for ships that can no longer be produced. XIV materiel is by definition irreplaceable, and that's without getting into mod superships or uniques. Maybe limit those to salvaged hulls?
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Harpuea on January 15, 2019, 01:26:58 AM
Hey! I was really hoping for some other alternatives from just loading a bunch of Starliners with Marines and raiding constantly. This fits the bill perfectly. As a simple end user, I appreciates your work.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Straticus on January 15, 2019, 06:46:28 AM
Again I want to say thanks for all the constructive comments. I was a bit naive as to the potential impact of what the current iteration of this does, and to be honest what’s there at the moment is an early evolution of a utility mod and one that could do with some rework. I’ll release a whitelist filtered version later this week and then at some point badger people to see if I can persuade them to include some of their content.

The thought had occurred to me to resist making this change, but I think it’s better to be a good citizen of the modding community, especially one that’s helped make Starsector my favourite game for a long time.

Quote
To be totally clear; if this mod gets a whitelist and some basic hooks for other creators, I would be happy to sit down and brainstorm a couple pieces of custom content just to interact with it.

As someone who really enjoys DmE, and was inspired in part by your BB content, I’d enjoy doing a tie-in at some point. 8)
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Recklessimpulse on January 15, 2019, 08:09:21 AM
As an end user I also think this is just fine, I must play in a way that never lets me see the secrets hidden in these mods so this is just fine. That said maybe have this version a free for all be optional, and a base version that has a white list? O better have it take white lists as priority and if no white list exists default to every thing being available?
Also the fleets are a bit easy for what your getting.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: LB on January 15, 2019, 04:14:56 PM
I respectfully disagree with many of posters here.

This is clearly a mod which at least some players will legitimately want to use. It perhaps warrants some sort of incompatibility warning, but whether it can exist and advertise itself for use should not be in question.

Mods for singleplayer games are opt-in; each player is responsible for managing how they want to play their own game, and even "ruin" their experience from your subjective perspective if they choose to, provided they don't try to blame everyone else. It is nice of mod authors to build in support for everyone else's mods and especially cool if it leads to proper tie-ins, but it is hard to argue that it even approaches an "obligation" for them to support inter-mod compatibility, much less wide-ranging compatibility that addresses edge cases in other mods which themselves work because of specific assumptions made about vanilla. Every single other modding community (Total War, for example, to cite a case where mod conflicts are a serious problem) simply deals with this by acknowledging that conflicts can cause bug reports in the wrong places, makes the first step of debugging is "what's your mod list" or perhaps "do you have one of these known high-conflict-risk mods installed", and making it perfectly acceptable for each individual author to say "that problem is caused by another mod, and I'm not willing or able to devote time to it at the moment". Starsector's modding structure is super-easy and innately low-conflict by comparison but I don't think that is good reason to turn about and paint wide-ranging compatibility as an "obligation" for other mod authors. Of course it would be another matter if that mod author was maliciously creating incompatibilities and stirring the pot, but there's nothing to warrant accusing Straticus of that. To turn the question around, why should new mod authors be "obliged" to write in special-case support for older ones, provided that they are not applicable to all players (e.g. graphical enhancements) but only cater to players that want a specific gameplay experience?

Quote
The thought had occurred to me to resist making this change
This would have been a perfectly supportable position, but I think where you're going is a nice direction too.

Quote
It's a nice idea for a mod that I'm sure lots of players will like, but it's undoubtedly going to be a huge headache for mod makers.
Other mod makers are under no obligation to provide tech support for this mod or anyone using this mod, and this mod is not forcing itself into anyone's game directory without player intervention. Individual players can trivially make their own edits and break mods, and what this mod does is not a difference of kind if it does not claim that it is highly compatible. You could make a reasonable argument that it creates more tech-support work for other mod makers, but that seems like a logistical (forum moderation, perhaps) issue rather than a fundamental problem.

Quote
-It breaks the number one ethics rule in any kind of modding, starsector modding or otherwise: Allow mods to OPT IN, don't force other modders to opt out or "code around" your mod. It makes it easier on both parties and helps with bug hunting. And by the looks of it, I'm not even seeing a way to opt out either...
Quote
- As Midnight said, it is ethically *highly* frowned upon to create work for other modders.
Citing "ethics" here is a long stretch for the above reasons, and I wager you know that and you are using the word in a more discipline-specific sense.

Some of this reeks a little of the same smell from that thread for xenoargh's balance mod, where much of the behavior and tone by respondents was frankly disgraceful for a community for a game that benefits greatly from different mod options. Assuming that individual players ("fools") can't be responsible about using mods by default is rather denigrating and pretentious, and in any case, it is not your business how others choose to play a singleplayer game with no scoreboard or competitive element, especially one where mods and base content are open in structure and easily modifiable by the end user. But it is also not anyone's obligation to support people who can't be responsible with using mods.

All that aside, I do think that there is an unsolved issue for authors that would rightfully like to hide some of the content in their mod, exert some control over how the individual mod is played, or discourage people from peeking into the files and ruining the well-crafted surprises (I regret looking at the Blade Breaker content and generation stuff before having experienced it in-game, for example). It would be nice if there was an idiomatic or officially supported way to do this. That's a separate question from whether this mod should be on this board. This one probably does warrant an incompatibility notice, though.

Regarding the mod itself:

I think it is a little bit too easy gameplay-wise, since money is so easy to get and the fleets aren't all that hard. It might be more fun if the trigger was something more difficult or fun but still more generatable by the player, like making it loot remnant fleets with custom compositions that require specialist fleets or are super difficult or something. It makes stuff too accessible for me to keep playing with it on.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Harmful Mechanic on January 15, 2019, 04:31:01 PM
I think the mod should definitely exist; that's why I would like tools to control the way my content interacts with it. It's very cool, and when revised I'm looking forward to thinking up ways to make it even more fun on my end. It's just, in current form, a huge problem for anybody trying to control access to specific blueprints, hulls, and weapons for gameplay purposes.

Quote from: LB on January 15, 2019, 04:14:56 PM
Mods for singleplayer games are opt-in; each player is responsible for managing how they want to play their own game, and even "ruin" their experience from your subjective perspective if they choose to, provided they don't try to blame everyone else.

Please, by all means, tell me how we stop them from blaming everyone else. I just had someone in my thread, whining about a core feature of a vanilla slot type, as though I personally had prevented it from working the way they wanted on a specific weapon. It's easy to say that's no big deal when you personally don't get the messages, the anger, and the bogus bug reports.

Meso can be a little bit harsh, even disciplinarian in his approach, but he's basically correct to cite modding 'ethics' here. It's rude to break things that other people have made, just like it's rude to kick over sand castles on a playground when you're a little kid. Xenoargh kicked over some sand castles, and if the response was pretty kindergarten so was the lesson being imparted; 'don't break other people's things, especially if they ask you not to'.

I think enforcing it in any way, even social censure, is a lost cause, but I don't think it's a complete waste of time to ask people who make mods that have wide-ranging effects on core gameplay systems to think carefully about how they do that. I think we could stand to remember that most people who do this stuff are a lot better intentioned than Xenoargh is when we respond, but the problem is real for people who create mods that rely partly or wholly on hidden content.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: MesoTroniK on January 15, 2019, 05:39:41 PM
@ LB

All I was doing was recommending the best practice, if he decided to not heed the advice given by me and others? All I would do is create a hard incompatibility and get on with my life. I think you are looking way too hard at what I was saying while at the same time not hard enough, I even said if he wanted to stay the course of the original plan? *The hard incompatibility is exactly what I would have done*, and would have been the best practice I could enact from my end. It was a courtesy extended to him, talking about this from my years of modding experience and he was under no obligation to follow the advice given. Just like I am under no obligation to *not* write hard incompatibility into my mods for the mods that break them.


Straticus, thank you and I intend to whitelist *some* but not all of my content for your mod :)
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: LB on January 15, 2019, 05:53:25 PM
There's no need to expend effort stopping them, you just choose to not pay them any attention and not let them bother you. But that sort of stoic doctrine seems unpopular nowadays and admittedly I've never been able to convince anyone that hasn't already had lots of practice following it. I guess on a forum there are logistical problems too.

I don't think the sand castle simile applies well, since it is still up to people whether they want to install his mod and presumably xenoargh is not going out of his way to make people install it. On the other hand if it advertised or implied high compatibility then that would be bad manners (I haven't looked). I am not familiar with the history so perhaps I am not qualified to comment more on it.

Quote
I think enforcing it in any way, even social censure, is a lost cause, but I don't think it's a complete waste of time to ask people who make mods that have wide-ranging effects on core gameplay systems to think carefully about how they do that.
Quote
All I was doing was recommending the best practice
You are right, and that is fine. But conveying it more courteously will only make it more convincing, and can be done just as succinctly.

But now I am splitting hairs. Looking forward to the update.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: TheWetFish on January 15, 2019, 06:46:45 PM
Many pertinent points are already being addressed, let's also consider some other aspects that might otherwise be missed.

Can we have optional per blueprint challenge or reward modifiers?

For example an optional override value on the amount of challenge that a particular blueprint reward induces?

Another optional factor may be to restrict the maximum scope of rewards per challenge, such as specifying a cap on how many blueprints can concurrently drop from the same mod within the same single combat reward pool.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Katsumi on January 15, 2019, 10:27:44 PM
Quote from: Soren on January 15, 2019, 04:31:01 PM
I think the mod should definitely exist; that's why I would like tools to control the way my content interacts with it. It's very cool, and when revised I'm looking forward to thinking up ways to make it even more fun on my end. It's just, in current form, a huge problem for anybody trying to control access to specific blueprints, hulls, and weapons for gameplay purposes.

Quote from: LB on January 15, 2019, 04:14:56 PM
Mods for singleplayer games are opt-in; each player is responsible for managing how they want to play their own game, and even "ruin" their experience from your subjective perspective if they choose to, provided they don't try to blame everyone else.

Please, by all means, tell me how we stop them from blaming everyone else. I just had someone in my thread, whining about a core feature of a vanilla slot type, as though I personally had prevented it from working the way they wanted on a specific weapon. It's easy to say that's no big deal when you personally don't get the messages, the anger, and the bogus bug reports.

Meso can be a little bit harsh, even disciplinarian in his approach, but he's basically correct to cite modding 'ethics' here. It's rude to break things that other people have made, just like it's rude to kick over sand castles on a playground when you're a little kid. Xenoargh kicked over some sand castles, and if the response was pretty kindergarten so was the lesson being imparted; 'don't break other people's things, especially if they ask you not to'.

I think enforcing it in any way, even social censure, is a lost cause, but I don't think it's a complete waste of time to ask people who make mods that have wide-ranging effects on core gameplay systems to think carefully about how they do that. I think we could stand to remember that most people who do this stuff are a lot better intentioned than Xenoargh is when we respond, but the problem is real for people who create mods that rely partly or wholly on hidden content.

Why do you want to control the way people play their own games? If folks want to download Dassault-Mikoyan and play it "as it was meant to be played," that's fine. But if they want to break it wide open and mess around with all the fun toys without having to "earn them" first, that's their prerogative. Why in the world would you waste your time and effort trying to code your mod to prevent the specific features of another mod, like this one, from working, just to preserve YOUR vision of how someone else ought to play the game? It's ridiculous.

And, newsflash, this mod is less egregious in that regard than something like Console Commands.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Lupiscanis on January 15, 2019, 11:22:53 PM
Quote from: Katsumi on January 15, 2019, 10:27:44 PM

And, newsflash, this mod is less egregious in that regard than something like Console Commands.

I agree. This isn't to disparage Console Commands - it's an excellent mod. This is a single player game that you play in the way you deem fit. Once someone downloads a mod, there's little you can do to stop them tinkering with it as they want. If people want to do something, they'll find a way.

And I'm sorry, but you're never going to make everyone happy - just look at how many people spam threads with 'is this updated yet?' (not just this game either) as soon as an update comes out. Some people will just never be pleased with the free content that hard working modders provide.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Katsumi on January 15, 2019, 11:55:32 PM
Quote from: Lupiscanis on January 15, 2019, 11:22:53 PM
Quote from: Katsumi on January 15, 2019, 10:27:44 PM

And, newsflash, this mod is less egregious in that regard than something like Console Commands.

I agree. This isn't to disparage Console Commands - it's an excellent mod. This is a single player game that you play in the way you deem fit. Once someone downloads a mod, there's little you can do to stop them tinkering with it as they want. If people want to do something, they'll find a way.

And I'm sorry, but you're never going to make everyone happy - just look at how many people spam threads with 'is this updated yet?' (not just this game either) as soon as an update comes out. Some people will just never be pleased with the free content that hard working modders provide.

Oh, yeah, I use Console Commands all the time. It's a great mod. Use it to refresh markets until I can buy a Pandemonium (or just give myself the damn hull, if I'm feeling frustrated), because I'll be damned if I've ever seen one in the wild more than once in over 200 hours of playing.

Anyways, I think Vesperon Combine is a fine mod concept. Having a blacklist for other modders is a courtesy to other modders that Straticus should feel free to extend or not. If he does, it's because they're courteous and considerate, but by no means should it be a requirement. Because this is, at its core, something of a "cheat" mod. The whole point is to make it easier to acquire things than they usually are. To force him to cater to other modders that want to restrict other people from having easy access to their stuff goes against the whole spirit of this thing.

Look, Soren, MidnightKitsune, MesoTronik... I get it. Your mods are your babies. You've put tons of time and effort and frustration into crafting them, and you're proud of what you built, and I know you just want people to get the most enjoyment out of them that they can. But everyone has different tastes, different thresholds of frustration, different ways they value their time. You have to understand, you put your stuff out there for everyone to freely use, and if people want to cheat and use it in ways that you didn't intend, that's their right. To try and force them otherwise just comes off as egotistical bullying. You've been belligerent, bossy, harsh, and unfair, and frankly I'm appalled that all of you, who have created so much and added such value to this community, would treat a first time modder like Straticus in this way. I understand your concerns, but you need to be way more supportive and constructive if you want to nurture the development of new modders and keep this community healthy.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Tartiflette on January 16, 2019, 12:40:00 AM
If a mod is actively conflicting with most other mods, it is as good as dead. There is not problem if you want to break your game by tinkering with mods, but the default behavior should be one that compliment the base game and other mods, not break them.

Your assumption is that modders will heavily restrict their content, and I can garantee you that you are mistaken.

A whitelist isn't just a courtesy: it ensure the maximum compatibility with other mods, while giving players the option to tinker with the mod to their specific tastes. That is actually the most versatile option and the one that requires the least amount of work for everyone, modders and players alike.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Katsumi on January 16, 2019, 12:50:43 AM
I guess I just don't understand how the default behaviour of this mod breaks other mods.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: FreedomFighter on January 16, 2019, 12:51:09 AM
Quote from: Tartiflette on January 16, 2019, 12:40:00 AM
If a mod is actively conflicting with most other mods, it is as good as dead.

This is true to any game with large assortment of mods and popular mods. It is best for mod to complimenting each other instead of conflicting unless it is major overhaul that requires itself to be standalone.

Quote from: Katsumi on January 16, 2019, 12:50:43 AM
I guess I just don't understand how the default behaviour of this mod breaks other mods.

This mod is not directly conflicting with other mods or broke them directly but they have hidden stuff that supposes to be found by exploration or as a quest reward or does not suppose to easily obtain or unobtainable by the player at all. This mod let you easily obtain all of those and it will ruin the experience that those mods suppose to provide to the user. Fact is; it is actually a developer and modder side to prevent from such thing to happen. They need to do something to prevent player ruining themselves and not the other way around. You can't trust the user most of the times. It is best to normalize the experience so everyone is on the same page.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: MesoTroniK on January 16, 2019, 12:57:01 AM
Quote from: Tartiflette on January 16, 2019, 12:40:00 AM
If a mod is actively conflicting with most other mods, it is as good as dead. There is not problem if you want to break your game by tinkering with mods, but the default behavior should be one that compliment the base game and other mods, not break them.

Your assumption is that modders will heavily restrict their content, and I can garantee you that you are mistaken.

A whitelist isn't just a courtesy: it ensure the maximum compatibility with other mods, while giving players the option to tinker with the mod to their specific tastes. That is actually the most versatile option and the one that requires the least amount of work for everyone, modders and players alike.

I can't possibly put it any better than this, good post Tarti :)

Quote from: Katsumi on January 16, 2019, 12:50:43 AM
I guess I just don't understand how the default behaviour of this mod breaks other mods.

- If something is not meant to have a blueprint at all, or does something that replaces it with something else (hint, I am doing stuff like that!)? The current version of this mod breaks things.
- If something is a gate for more content, like in quest? The current version of this mod breaks things.
- If something is meant as Soren put it before not to be player usable at all, and then the player gets it? That breaks things. And as Tarti put it, cheating strait up with a Console Command is *not* the same thing as finding it during normal game play places so to speak like the current version of this mod.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: AxleMC131 on January 16, 2019, 12:58:37 AM
[!] Public Service Announcement: There is a difference between a player modifying game files to suit their personal taste, and one mod modifying another mod's files beyond the player's actions, and even beyond the author's design of the affected mod.



One only affects the player making those changes in their copy of the game. The other affects ANYONE who downloads the culprit mod, whether they understand what it's doing or not. Do not make the argument that it's the same as the player editing game files themselves, because it simply is not true. The argument "they should know what they're doing by downloading this mod" is irrelevant because some people just are not smart, and still others will simply not read warning labels. (And, y'know, many people probably don't understand how the game or its mods work. Not everyone's a hacker pro.)

(Hint: This same argument can be applied to Console Commands versus this mod. A console command only affects YOU and YOUR GAME. Plus, you have to actively be trying to break *** to do that, whereas a mod like this without a whitelist will do that automatically by default, potentially without the player realizing.)
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Tartiflette on January 16, 2019, 01:08:44 AM
I will also add that if a mod is a straight up cheat, it will see a lot less use than the same mod slightly modified to be in line with the game's mechanics by default.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Katsumi on January 16, 2019, 01:11:44 AM
Quote from: FreedomFighter on January 16, 2019, 12:51:09 AM
Quote from: Tartiflette on January 16, 2019, 12:40:00 AM
If a mod is actively conflicting with most other mods, it is as good as dead.

This is true to any game with large assortment of mods and popular mods. It is best for mod to complimenting each other instead of conflicting unless it is major overhaul that requires itself to be standalone.

Quote from: Katsumi on January 16, 2019, 12:50:43 AM
I guess I just don't understand how the default behaviour of this mod breaks other mods.

This mod is not directly conflicting with other mods or broke them directly but they have hidden stuff that supposes to be found by exploration or as a quest reward or does not suppose to easily obtain or unobtainable by the player at all. This mod let you easily obtain all of those and it will ruin the experience that those mods suppose to provide to the user. Fact is; it is actually a developer and modder side to prevent from such thing to happen. They need to do something to prevent player ruining themselves and not the other way around. You can't trust the user most of the times. It is best to normalize the experience so everyone is on the same page.

............ yeah, but this is a cheat mod though. It's supposed to make difficult to find stuff obtainable. It's not here to adhere to other modder's vision of how their own mods should be played. It's very clear that that is what this is, from reading the op, and it's each individual player's choice to mod the game as they so choose. If they don't want to make otherwise unobtainable or difficult to acquire stuff obtainable, they're perfectly free to just... not download Vesperon Combine. And if they do, they can! It's not another modder's job, prerogative, or right to police how other people mod and play the game.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: AxleMC131 on January 16, 2019, 01:16:29 AM
Quote from: Katsumi on January 16, 2019, 01:11:44 AM

............ yeah, but this is a cheat mod though. ... It's very clear that that is what this is, from reading the op...

Actually it's not. It doesn't say anywhere "will give you ships from other mods that are normally locked out of the player's access". It hints at it in as many words, but most people probably don't realize what that means.

Also the author has pretty clearly implied this is not intended to be a cheat mod. It's a utility mod that allows the player to have access to things they otherwise may not in any given save game. The fact that there is still a challenge to beat is a giveaway that it ain't a simple cheat. If you want to cheat, use Console Commands and don't waste your time with a mod like this! :) It ain't rocket science.

And, once again, people don't read. Countless times I've talked to people who have downloaded mods without really understanding what they do. This is a prime example of one such mod that would cause real trouble if they did that. As an amateur modder, who has spoken to several very prolific and experienced modders, the need to spoon-feed stuff like this to players is real.

As I said before. If you want to make something foolproof, you have to take fools into account.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Katsumi on January 16, 2019, 01:22:49 AM
Quote from: AxleMC131 on January 16, 2019, 01:16:29 AM
Also the author has pretty clearly implied this is not intended to be a cheat mod. It's a utility mod that allows the player to have access to things they otherwise may not in any given save game.

I can't tell if you're being deliberately obtuse or not.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Tartiflette on January 16, 2019, 01:50:16 AM
Says it right there:

Quote from: Straticus on January 13, 2019, 12:26:56 PM
Beyond the fluff, this is a small, lore-friendly...ish mod for those who are frustrated by the limited number of opportunities to find All The Things - well, blueprints at least - in a single playthrough. The opportunity to buy access to more locations as they crop up makes the experience repeatable, until the player can construct everything that is boardable and obtainable in the game.

This mod should only allow to get "obtainable" ships. Something that the previous approach didn't ensured, but a whitelist would.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: DatonKallandor on January 16, 2019, 06:35:18 AM
This is a great mod and all the modders complaining about how it "doesn't conform to their vision" - it's an optional mod. Nobody is forced to download it when they get your mods, and nobody is going to blame you if this mod breaks your "balance". Please stop acting like your mods are part of vanilla starsector and deserve some kind of special protection.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Dekent59 on January 16, 2019, 07:40:34 AM
Quote from: Monsterhunterer on January 13, 2019, 04:21:50 PM
Hey just wanted to let you know I am getting a crash related to the Granite from the XLU mod
99745 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull spec [xlu_granite] not found!
java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull spec [xlu_granite] not found!
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.do.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.settings.StarfarerSettings$1.getHullSpec(Unknown Source)
   at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.intel.VesperonIntelManager.getKnown BlueprintsForFaction(VesperonIntelManager.java:263)
   at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.intel.VesperonIntelManager.<init>(VesperonIntelManager.java:64)
   at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.intel.bar.events.VesperonMembership BarEvent.<init>(VesperonMembershipBarEvent.java:47)
   at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.intel.bar.events.VesperonMembership BarEventCreator.createBarEvent(VesperonMembershipBarEventCreator.java:8)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.intel.bar.events.BarEventManager.advance(BarEventManager.java:166)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
 


Wanted to try this out but getting the same error. 
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Harmful Mechanic on January 16, 2019, 07:47:10 AM
Actually, I don't care if it 'conforms to my vision' - I care that it meets the OP's design intent, which is not to make a cheat mod. If someone wants to make a mod that breaks stuff in mine, I'm fine with that; I'm just not going to design around it, either. This mod seemed like it was a cool enough idea to be worth suggesting revisions because it causes problems.

If this mod really offended me, I could just hardcode a crash when it's enabled and force people to choose; DME, or Vesperon, but not both at the same time. Who do you think wins that one? But I think it's the beginning of a good mod, worth improving, which is why I spoke up. That's what nurturing new modders looks like; if it doesn't meet your standards of Nice, complain to management.

(This seems like a basic social mistake made by a kid, who is used to adults being paid to put up with their exasperating behavior.)
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: FreedomFighter on January 16, 2019, 07:54:05 AM
Quote from: DatonKallandor on January 16, 2019, 06:35:18 AM
This is a great mod and all the modders complaining about how it "doesn't conform to their vision" - it's an optional mod. Nobody is forced to download it when they get your mods, and nobody is going to blame you if this mod breaks your "balance". Please stop acting like your mods are part of vanilla starsector and deserve some kind of special protection.

Why are you triggered over this despite the OP and co-modder admitted to revision it and other modder that came into this thread giving them advice and willing to help improve it? They're not asking OP to comfort their mod. They're asking OP if his mod can compliment with other mods out here to further improving the player experience.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Troika on January 16, 2019, 07:56:07 AM
I like the idea of this mod a lot. It's a nice compromise for being able to grab BPs that you want to complete a collection instead of scouring the sector to mabye not even find the last few.

Also, Soren, in my case, this mod would win over DME if you added crashcode. The 0.9 versions of your mod have not been good and you've generally responded poorly to criticism about it.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Harmful Mechanic on January 16, 2019, 08:05:32 AM
Quote from: Troika on January 16, 2019, 07:56:07 AM
Also, Soren, in my case, this mod would win over DME if you added crashcode.

It's a hypothetical pointing out what *actual* nonconstructive behavior looks like; I don't have any intention to add crashcode, because the mod doesn't, actually, offend me, and the OP has already decided to revise it.

Quote from: Troika on January 16, 2019, 07:56:07 AM
The 0.9 versions of your mod have not been good and you've generally responded poorly to criticism about it.

My heart bleeds. I am slain. Feel free to direct that to me in my actual thread, though.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: grimcreaper on January 16, 2019, 08:09:19 AM
To the OP: Thank you for this cool mod. I intend to grab and start using it once im home from work tonight. Keep up the good work!

To the mod authors who are getting bent out of shape: Stop being an Arthmoor. Seriously. This is a single player game and this mod is actually pretty neat. Attacking a new modder is ridiculous and comes off as being callous.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Mr. Nobody on January 16, 2019, 08:31:37 AM
My oh my, blacklisting and honest-to-god intentional game crashing like it's MC Forge? What's next? Severed horse heads a-la Godfather?
Man, as much as i hate and loathe that word with every fiber of my being, stuff's getting pretty toxic.
Thankfully in the "modern" sense of the word as in "peepl r hurting me fee-fees", not actual toxicity, don't want to think what would happen if someone could cause spontaneous cell death and necrosis with a forum post.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Straticus on January 16, 2019, 09:29:04 AM
As someone who builds (and maintains) software for a living, it's bloody annoying when someone else's cross-cutting concerns cause havoc with what you've built, and you have to deal with the fallout because some error message or UX indicates it's your thing that's caused it. So I have some empathy for other mod-makers, particularly those who have spent years on their stuff rather than the ~1.5 weeks I spent building this.

There's also the argument that collaboration, rather than unilateralism, will make things better for the community as a whole. I would rather reduce the number of the blueprints available by Vesperon but make it richer and more rewarding in other ways. It isn't intended as a cheat mod, although it may come across that way as I balanced it against a relatively mid-range fleet of my own when building it to prove the concept I had in mind.

Quote from: LB on January 15, 2019, 04:14:56 PM
Starsector's modding structure is super-easy and innately low-conflict by comparison but I don't think that is good reason to turn about and paint wide-ranging compatibility as an "obligation" for other mod authors.

I don't take this as pushing an obligation, but encouragement towards making mods that work well with others. I hadn't realised it was possible to make mods mututally exclusive with others. If I took a unilateral position to carry on then it would be totally appropriate for others who disagree to make theirs incompatible with mine, and I can guess which ones the community would rather play with.

Quote from: Katsumi
And, newsflash, this mod is less egregious in that regard than something like Console Commands.

The key difference is that impact of using Console Commands - something that's designed to modify the game state at the player's whim - is rather more immediate and obvious than something that's integrated into the gameplay.

Perhaps a good example of this 'breaking' other content is Tiandong's conversions system - which is IIRC based on conversions of existing hulls, and perhaps in-game the faction doesn't have an autofactory or blueprints for any of its ships. By this mod providing the blueprints, that USP is lost and people are less likely to bother with using conversions as the author intended. It might not create a support issue for Meso, but it is detrimental to the concept that his mod introduced. And I'd rather that not happen.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Straticus on January 16, 2019, 11:08:49 AM
Quote from: grimcreaper on January 16, 2019, 08:09:19 AM
To the OP: Thank you for this cool mod. I intend to grab and start using it once im home from work tonight. Keep up the good work!

To the mod authors who are getting bent out of shape: Stop being an Arthmoor. Seriously. This is a single player game and this mod is actually pretty neat. Attacking a new modder is ridiculous and comes off as being callous.

You're welcome! I hope you enjoy it.

I don't feel attacked - a little disheartened by earlier replies I suppose, but that's what happens when you create something in a vacuum and realise what you've done could do with some improvement. And unless I've missed something everyone with a critical bent has been polite and constructive...
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Dostya on January 16, 2019, 11:24:21 AM
Nobody seemed to really care about Omnifactory running on a blacklist, or players being able to subsequently turn off that blacklist in the settings file and build whatever. I'd go with that precedent. Also, this'll likely be in my next run because blueprint hunting is fun once, maybe twice. If a mod hardcodes incompatability, well, that mod's getting the boot. I've just started using Console Commands to solve that problem but this'll work more nicely.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Straticus on January 16, 2019, 11:35:10 AM
Quote from: Dostya on January 16, 2019, 11:24:21 AM
Nobody seemed to really care about Omnifactory running on a blacklist, or players being able to subsequently turn off that blacklist in the settings file and build whatever.

I thought the same but I realised the defining difference is that you the Omnifactory could only duplicate something you already had in your fleet or inventory, without bypassing the obstacles mod creators put in to get those goodies in the first place.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Katsumi on January 16, 2019, 12:02:24 PM
Quote from: Soren on January 16, 2019, 07:47:10 AM
If this mod really offended me, I could just hardcode a crash when it's enabled and force people to choose; DME, or Vesperon, but not both at the same time. Who do you think wins that one?

What's with the ego-trip posturing man? We get it. DME is bigger and more popular. How good for you.

Quote from: Straticus on January 16, 2019, 11:08:49 AM
Quote from: grimcreaper on January 16, 2019, 08:09:19 AM
To the OP: Thank you for this cool mod. I intend to grab and start using it once im home from work tonight. Keep up the good work!

To the mod authors who are getting bent out of shape: Stop being an Arthmoor. Seriously. This is a single player game and this mod is actually pretty neat. Attacking a new modder is ridiculous and comes off as being callous.

You're welcome! I hope you enjoy it.

I don't feel attacked - a little disheartened by earlier replies I suppose, but that's what happens when you create something in a vacuum and realise what you've done could do with some improvement. And unless I've missed something everyone with a critical bent has been polite and constructive...

Straticus, I admire you maturity and grace. You can bet that if I made my first ever mod, and a number of big name modders came down on me like a ton of bricks with accusations of "violating modder ethics" and "forcing us to code around you" (to remove the very functionality your mod supports), you can be damn sure I wouldn't make another one.

And, as much as the egos floating around undercut their message, I do think a whitelist or blacklist or whatever is best for compatibility is a good idea. If it were up to me, though, I'd have that whitelist be a flag that's readily accessible to the player to switch however way they want. Sometimes it's fun to play around with the broken unbalanced secret stuff you were never meant to have, and having a way to "legitimately" obtain some OP Blade Breaker supership or manufacture unlimited Unsungs would, I think, be really cool.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Wyvern on January 16, 2019, 12:26:40 PM
Kudos to Straticus for taking positive feedback in a positive fashion; my initial interest in this mod was close to zero - I don't need something that replaces raiding because I don't raid - but if it's going to be getting interesting integration with other mods?  Yeah, that I'll install.

RE: blueprint hunting & fun: My personal perspective is that I treat blueprint-hunting not as a completion mechanic, but as a "Hey, what did I get to try and build an effective fleet out of this game?" mechanic.  I've had several games swing in wildly unexpected directions when, say, I got an early Doom blueprint, and suddenly my fleet was full of phase ships.  Or that one run where the only decent cruiser blueprint I got for about half the game was the DME Baikal-Brone, and so I had to figure out how to get the most out that clumsy-but-charming cruiser.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Harmful Mechanic on January 16, 2019, 12:30:49 PM
Quote from: Katsumi on January 16, 2019, 12:02:24 PM
What's with the ego-trip posturing man? We get it. DME is bigger and more popular. How good for you.

Here it is in small words, since you have trouble with big ones; if I hated this mod and didn't want it to exist, I could just add that code. No argument, no feedback, I could just make it look as though his mod were too buggy to run properly. Most players would chalk it up to the newer mod being badly made, and stop using it. That's what muscling a new modder out would actually look like.

Instead, I gave feedback because I like it and I want it to be widely-used and play nice with other mods. I won't make that mistake again.

(And for the record, 'threatening' not to play my mod is like 'threatening' to give me a million dollars. You mean the most annoying players won't be sending me subliterate 'bug' reports about vanilla features? Where do I sign up?)
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Psycho Landlord on January 16, 2019, 12:44:41 PM
Dude, you really need to learn how to talk to people.

Hope you get this working in an agreeable fashion for everybody, Straticus, I think it's a neat idea.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Alex on January 16, 2019, 01:15:09 PM
Let's have no more off-topic stuff, flaming, etc here. It looks like a bleed-over from another thread, anyway, or an ongoing ... disagreement ... and it's discourteous to the OP to continue that here. Further responses in this vein will be deleted and other actions will be taken if needed. Thank you!


FWIW, I think this mod looks really interesting! I do agree that whitelisting etc seems like a good approach (absent a comprehensive algorithmic solution, which doesn't appear possible), and also kudos to Straticus for handling this well, as (at least imo) some of the initial feedback could've easily been taken the wrong way.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: ottodeluxe on January 16, 2019, 02:08:15 PM
A while ago, I tried writing a small mod that adds a new bar event. This event lets you straight up purchase one of
a) a random blueprint package (I iterate over everything tagged pack_bp)
b) a random AI core (yes, you can buy an Alpha core, if you're lucky)
c) a nanoforge or even sync core

I have had many a crash during development, and I am sure not all crashes are sorted out even to this date, which is the main reason I never published the mod here on the forum. My approach to balance was to make the items prohibitively expensive (it IS smuggled deep-black-market goods we're talking about, you pay 9x the regular price) and making the event sort of rare (might be available once every two months in-game). Also,you might just be offered a pirate pack or a gamma core which you probably won't have any interest in. All those measures together were meant to make it a more late-game experience, when you can actually blow single digit millions on a core or bp, and you have to get lucky to even get an offer for something you want. I do not filter for player-owned blueprints or increse the chances for higher tier packs/goods with "progress" in any way. Maybe you can find an inspiration among those things, if you want to "balance" the mod more, or give people options.

Between this mod, my mod (which I might release, or PM me if you want the source) and the ability to buy blueprints in nex (which I have not net tried), there should be something for everyone. Me personally, I am not a fan of "gating" mechanics or content arbitrarily. However, I do appreciate mission chains and all the effort modders (and devs) put into a nice progression system, and also random loot. But when it comes down to RNG, I usually like to have the "intended" way to progress, which involves luck, or a less efficient sure-fire way. I mean, sometimes people just want to mess around and be OP or fly ships not intended for players.
Anyway, I'll give this mod a try, maybe I can steal learn something from it ;D
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: FreedomFighter on January 16, 2019, 02:23:11 PM
Nex BP market is randomized and you need to trade in the other BP in exchange for its own points to use in its own market. You still need to explore and sell the BP you don't want or duplicated like pirate BP. I got Victory class BP through that but It cost like 3-4 other BP combined.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Maelstrom on January 19, 2019, 11:32:35 AM
104640 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull spec [xlu_granite] not found!
java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull spec [xlu_granite] not found!
    at com.fs.starfarer.loading.do.super(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.o00000(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.o00000(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.settings.StarfarerSettings$1.getHullSpec(Unknown Source)
    at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.intel.VesperonIntelManager.getKnown BlueprintsForFaction(VesperonIntelManager.java:263)
    at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.intel.VesperonIntelManager.<init>(VesperonIntelManager.java:64)
    at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.intel.bar.events.VesperonMembership BarEvent.<init>(VesperonMembershipBarEvent.java:47)
    at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.intel.bar.events.VesperonMembership BarEventCreator.createBarEvent(VesperonMembershipBarEventCreator.java:8)
    at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.intel.bar.events.BarEventManager.advance(BarEventManager.java:166)
    at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.advance(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
    at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

you're welcome :P
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: DrakonST on January 19, 2019, 11:38:37 AM
It XLU bug, not a Vesperon. And this will be fixed on last path.

Quote
Bugs:
      Removed the missing Granite hull on correlating files. Jeez.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Hobostabbins on January 19, 2019, 01:00:39 PM
I've been flying around trying to find the bar that has the features from this mod but I've been having no luck. I was hoping to find an answer somewhere in this thread but there's a lot of... shrapnel here. I'd love to hear where I should be looking.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Avanitia on January 19, 2019, 02:17:29 PM
Quote from: Hobostabbins on January 19, 2019, 01:00:39 PM
I've been flying around trying to find the bar that has the features from this mod but I've been having no luck. I was hoping to find an answer somewhere in this thread but there's a lot of... shrapnel here. I'd love to hear where I should be looking.

I think the event spawns on random market, check bars on any independent market you'll come across, each time you get there.
You'll need 1 million credits to get a thing from that event, so go and get some of that sweet sweet space money.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Morrokain on January 19, 2019, 03:16:44 PM
I love story/lore based content!

Kudos for making a mod focused on that.  :)
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.0.0 - 13/01/19
Post by: Straticus on January 20, 2019, 10:59:42 AM
Here's the whitelisting update - sorry I haven't had a chance to get it out before now. The main change for players is that this will remove consideration from all mod-added blueprints. I'll be asking mod makers to see if they'd be prepared to whitelist some of their content, however if you prefer the non-whitelist behaviour, where all blueprints can be made available then I'd advise you stick to the v1.0.0 version for the moment.

I believe this should be save-compatible with v1.0.0, but I might be wrong.

Code
v1.1.0
---

- Added whitelisting system for other mods to opt-in
    - Add to `data/config/vesperon_blueprints.json` to whitelist content
    - See example vanilla config file
- Whitelisted all (obtainable) vanilla blueprints
- Slightly optimised VesperonIntelManager to not load new JSON structs all the time
- Move the Vesperon rep around once every 60 days to make sure market decivs (et al) can't break the mod

Download v1.1.0 (https://github.com/straticJeff/vesperon/archive/v1.1.0.zip)
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.0 - 20/01/19
Post by: MesoTroniK on January 20, 2019, 06:13:58 PM
Great update Straticus :)

Though you forgot to update the version number in your mod_info.json.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.0 - 20/01/19
Post by: Straticus on January 20, 2019, 10:34:48 PM
Doh, I’ll put out a hotfix for that later. Thanks Meso!
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.0 - 20/01/19
Post by: Nia Tahl on January 21, 2019, 05:06:57 AM
are you sure the wing IDs are correct in your vanilla blueprint list? Pretty sure you'd want the wing id rather than the individual fighter ids
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.0 - 20/01/19
Post by: Bishi on January 21, 2019, 10:47:19 AM
I think your mod is breaking spawns.

I originally posted here since I thought it was a Nexerelin issue : http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=9175.msg242893#msg242893

It affected BB spawns for me at first, but after moving some mods and trying some fresh seeds I found that this time my blade breakers were fine but my remnant were broken.

To replicate the issue I disabled all mods, I loaded up just your mod, console commands and lazy lib and started a new game. If you do 'SpawnFleet Remnant 50' the spawn fails. If I remove your mod and try the same, the spawn succeeds.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.0 - 20/01/19
Post by: Harmful Mechanic on January 21, 2019, 12:06:49 PM
Whitelisted a bunch of stuff last night for my next update - thanks so much for doing that. I left out a lot of the lower-end DME stuff because getting a lone Sevastopol blueprint in a concealed facility is like getting a single tube sock for Christmas.

Quote from: Bishi on January 21, 2019, 10:47:19 AM
It affected BB spawns for me at first, but after moving some mods and trying some fresh seeds I found that this time my blade breakers were fine but my remnant were broken.

Blade Breakers are terrible OP Mary Sue garbage, so their being broken is good and your game has been improved, since I literally designed them as a treasonous betrayal and an attack on player enjoyment, just to ruin your game. Some rando on a forum once said so! It must be true.

More seriously, I added a toggle for my random spawns, too, if you'd like a dev version in case this is partly my fault and until Straticus can take a look in his code, HMU by PM.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.0 - 20/01/19
Post by: Straticus on January 21, 2019, 01:38:22 PM
Quote from: Soren on January 21, 2019, 12:06:49 PM
Whitelisted a bunch of stuff last night for my next update - thanks so much for doing that. I left out a lot of the lower-end DME stuff because getting a lone Sevastopol blueprint in a concealed facility is like getting a single tube sock for Christmas.

Quote from: Bishi on January 21, 2019, 10:47:19 AM
It affected BB spawns for me at first, but after moving some mods and trying some fresh seeds I found that this time my blade breakers were fine but my remnant were broken.

Blade Breakers are terrible OP Mary Sue garbage, so their being broken is good and your game has been improved, since I literally designed them as a treasonous betrayal and an attack on player enjoyment, just to ruin your game. Some rando on a forum once said so! It must be true.

More seriously, I added a toggle for my random spawns, too, if you'd like a dev version in case this is partly my fault and until Straticus can take a look in his code, HMU by PM.

Thanks so much Soren - looking forward to some DME stuff appearing legitimately!

Quote from: Bishi on January 21, 2019, 10:47:19 AM
I think your mod is breaking spawns.

I originally posted here since I thought it was a Nexerelin issue : http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=9175.msg242893#msg242893

It affected BB spawns for me at first, but after moving some mods and trying some fresh seeds I found that this time my blade breakers were fine but my remnant were broken.

To replicate the issue I disabled all mods, I loaded up just your mod, console commands and lazy lib and started a new game. If you do 'SpawnFleet Remnant 50' the spawn fails. If I remove your mod and try the same, the spawn succeeds.

If it's Vesperon that's caused that, sorry! Looks like I have a crash course in Starsector-style Occam's Razor to work out what could be causing this. (Spawning those in was one of the things I couldn't do on the fly with the standard Fleet APIs, so I had to be build my own - crappier - approximation of the FleetFactory.)

Quote from: Nia Tahl on January 21, 2019, 05:06:57 AM
are you sure the wing IDs are correct in your vanilla blueprint list? Pretty sure you'd want the wing id rather than the individual fighter ids

You're right - another noob mistake on my part! I'll roll out the corrected list with the next update.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.1 - 21/01/19
Post by: Straticus on January 21, 2019, 03:09:41 PM
So yes, it was definitely Vesperon that borked up Remnant and BB spawns. It also explains why spawning them didn't work via FleetFactory in my own code. Note to future generations: Faction data Collections in the Starsector API are like live wires - don't play around with them unless you enjoy getting a nasty shock! :-[

I believe this should be save-compatible with previous versions, although I can't say whether it'll fix existing games if the spawns are already broken. It definitely fixes the issue Bishi raised though.

Code
v1.1.1
---

- Updated available vanilla blueprint whitelist to use fighter wing IDs, not fighter hull IDs
- Prevent Remnant and BB spawn breakage

Download v1.1.1 (https://github.com/straticJeff/vesperon/archive/v1.1.1.zip)
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.1 - 21/01/19
Post by: milkproducer on January 22, 2019, 07:42:59 PM
I understand why modders don't like this mod.
But some player do.
So...If you add a black list today, and another black list some other day, and another and another.....
Anything could left? why player subscribe this mod anymore?

So, can we keep the full function and just say this:

"If you don't like this mod, Don't subscribe it"

Just like a playable CONSOLE COMMAND, I didn't see anyone complain about CONSOLE COMMAND
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.1 - 21/01/19
Post by: AxleMC131 on January 22, 2019, 08:59:28 PM
Quote from: milkproducer on January 22, 2019, 07:42:59 PM
I understand why modders don't like this mod.
But some player do.
So...If you add a black list today, and another black list some other day, and another and another.....
Anything could left? why player subscribe this mod anymore?

So, can we keep the full function and just say this:

"If you don't like this mod, Don't subscribe it"

Just like a playable CONSOLE COMMAND, I didn't see anyone complain about CONSOLE COMMAND

This topic of conversation, unfortunately, has been politely requested to be discontinued on this thread. If you'd like to know more you can always ask in the Starsector Unofficial Discord, where some very passionate Starsector players and modders will be only too happy to explain why this mod lacking a whitelist or blacklist is a bad idea.  :) Needless to say, it has a whitelist now, so those concerns are no longer an issue and the players need not worry about it at all! Have a nice day.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.1 - 21/01/19
Post by: Harmful Mechanic on January 22, 2019, 10:15:52 PM
I actually love this mod. I gave feedback and hurried my whitelisted update because I love this mod. Straticus had a great idea, his implementation was just messy; now it's less so. Whitelists are easy to extend yourself, too.

Since apparently I'm being marked for a good beasting over this on Something Awful (and no doubt elsewhere), I'm happy to make you guys an extended whitelist minimod containing all my Blade Breaker content, just to put this to rest. It's not that hard to do yourself, either (it's a single .json file), but I'll do it just so you guys can have it sooner, we can put this argument to sleep, and Straticus can have his thread back.

EDIT: available >HERE< (https://bitbucket.org/StopTypingSoren/versionchecker-file/downloads/BBWhitelist%200.2.zip). No support will be provided.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.1 - 21/01/19
Post by: Vayra on January 22, 2019, 10:40:10 PM
Oh hey! Glad to see you put the whitelist in. I've gone ahead and whitelisted most of the ships and weapons, etc in my mod -- leaving out some crap at the bottom end, but including some ~rare special~ things that don't normally have blueprints. ;D
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.1 - 21/01/19
Post by: Tartiflette on January 23, 2019, 12:10:55 AM
Yep, I'm glad to see that now this mod works exactly like what the OP described initially, rather than being an unintentional cheat and causing unsolvable incompatibilities. Now it can be tweaked by everyone, including users, to provide the experience they want out of it.

I already prepared the whitelists for my all mods with everything but the Diable Avionics IBB, but with the incoming Tournament I'd rather hold on updqting them at least until the first round is done rather than risking messing up something.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.1 - 21/01/19
Post by: FreedomFighter on January 23, 2019, 12:58:43 AM
Look like Vesperon doesn't like Cabal from the Underworld. Game freeze and crash the moment Cabal touch me. This is tested without any other mods aside from those library mods.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.1 - 21/01/19
Post by: Mr. Nobody on January 23, 2019, 04:36:49 AM
All is well what ends well, as they say.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.1 - 21/01/19
Post by: Straticus on January 23, 2019, 08:42:29 AM
Quote from: FreedomFighter on January 23, 2019, 12:58:43 AM
Look like Vesperon doesn't like Cabal from the Underworld. Game freeze and crash the moment Cabal touch me. This is tested without any other mods aside from those library mods.

I've got Underworld installed here (albeit with a lot of other stuff too, including Nex) and haven't had this problem. I can't say it's not Vesperon that's responsible though, so you can send me your affected save if you'd like me to have a look...
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.1 - 21/01/19
Post by: Nia Tahl on January 23, 2019, 01:49:56 PM
I quite like the idea of this mod. Sylphon and Tahlan Shipworks have both been updated with support for it. Could see this having a nice bit of potential for more intricate features, like maybe the option to have a category for high-value blueprints that can be looted from special locations with powerful defenses or the like or possibly the options to have locations where you can find rare unique ships in pristine condition. I'd be quite happy to support such features.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.1 - 21/01/19
Post by: Vayra on January 23, 2019, 02:45:52 PM
Hey, just a note:

Code
97798 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull spec [junk_pirates_hammer] not found!
java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull spec [junk_pirates_hammer] not found!
    at com.fs.starfarer.loading.do.super(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.o00000(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.o00000(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.settings.StarfarerSettings$1.getHullSpec(Unknown Source)
    at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.intel.VesperonIntelManager.getKnownBlueprintsForFaction(VesperonIntelManager.java:318)
    at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.intel.VesperonIntelManager.<init>(VesperonIntelManager.java:106)
    at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.intel.VesperonIntelManager.getInstance(VesperonIntelManager.java:83)
    at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.intel.VesperonIntelManager.getInstance(VesperonIntelManager.java:76)
    at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.VesperonLifecyclePlugin.onGameLoad(VesperonLifecyclePlugin.java:32)

While 1.1.1 removed the "all blueprints known by any faction" behavior, it still checks them, which throws an NPE and crashes if any faction knows a hull spec that doesn't exist (which would normally be crash-safe). You may want to add a whitelist or blacklist for factions that prevents it from scanning ones not meant to be checked, on top of the existing whitelist for hulls/weapons/wings. Or just throw a null check in there at the appropriate place. :)

It should be noted that as a result of this, the latest version of Kadur Remnant is incompatible with Vesperon... if you do NOT also have Junk Pirates. Yeah, it's weird.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.1 - 21/01/19
Post by: FreedomFighter on January 23, 2019, 08:59:48 PM
Quote from: Straticus on January 23, 2019, 08:42:29 AM
Quote from: FreedomFighter on January 23, 2019, 12:58:43 AM
Look like Vesperon doesn't like Cabal from the Underworld. Game freeze and crash the moment Cabal touch me. This is tested without any other mods aside from those library mods.

I've got Underworld installed here (albeit with a lot of other stuff too, including Nex) and haven't had this problem. I can't say it's not Vesperon that's responsible though, so you can send me your affected save if you'd like me to have a look...

My apology, Starticus. I decided to clean both game and mod files. Everything is in working order now  :-\
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.1 - 21/01/19
Post by: Straticus on January 24, 2019, 12:45:52 AM
Quote from: Vayra on January 23, 2019, 02:45:52 PM
Hey, just a note:

Code
97798 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull spec [junk_pirates_hammer] not found!
java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull spec [junk_pirates_hammer] not found!
    at com.fs.starfarer.loading.do.super(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.o00000(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.o00000(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.settings.StarfarerSettings$1.getHullSpec(Unknown Source)
    at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.intel.VesperonIntelManager.getKnownBlueprintsForFaction(VesperonIntelManager.java:318)
    at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.intel.VesperonIntelManager.<init>(VesperonIntelManager.java:106)
    at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.intel.VesperonIntelManager.getInstance(VesperonIntelManager.java:83)
    at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.intel.VesperonIntelManager.getInstance(VesperonIntelManager.java:76)
    at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.VesperonLifecyclePlugin.onGameLoad(VesperonLifecyclePlugin.java:32)

While 1.1.1 removed the "all blueprints known by any faction" behavior, it still checks them, which throws an NPE and crashes if any faction knows a hull spec that doesn't exist (which would normally be crash-safe). You may want to add a whitelist or blacklist for factions that prevents it from scanning ones not meant to be checked, on top of the existing whitelist for hulls/weapons/wings. Or just throw a null check in there at the appropriate place. :)

It should be noted that as a result of this, the latest version of Kadur Remnant is incompatible with Vesperon... if you do NOT also have Junk Pirates. Yeah, it's weird.

That’s really helpful, thanks! I’ll roll out a fix as soon as I can.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.2 - 21/01/19
Post by: Straticus on January 24, 2019, 04:05:04 PM
This one should prevent issues with Kadur when Junk Pirates is not enabled, and more generally for any mod including content from others.

Code
v1.1.2
---

- Fixed crash on referenced ships/weapons/fighters not existing

Download v1.1.2 (https://github.com/straticJeff/vesperon/archive/v1.1.2.zip)
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.2 - 24/01/19
Post by: DrakonST on January 26, 2019, 11:35:05 PM
Someone, tell me how to find this [REDACTED], i playing 3 campaing atempt and current atempt on cycle 215. And i still not found this stupid quest in bar!

Fully surveyed sector, giant war fleet, big colonyes and i still not found this quest! WAAAAGH!!!
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.2 - 24/01/19
Post by: Avanitia on January 27, 2019, 04:42:54 AM
Quote from: DrakonST on January 26, 2019, 11:35:05 PM
Someone, tell me how to find this [REDACTED], i playing 3 campaing atempt and current atempt on cycle 215. And i still not found this stupid quest in bar!

Fully surveyed sector, giant war fleet, big colonyes and i still not found this quest! WAAAAGH!!!
Were you checking Independent markets when traveling?
The representative only appears in bars there.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.2 - 24/01/19
Post by: Dezgard on January 27, 2019, 06:27:18 AM
I checked them all haha still never appeared, are there conditions other than just checking bars on independent worlds? money in wallet etc?
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.2 - 24/01/19
Post by: Avanitia on January 27, 2019, 09:30:16 AM
Quote from: Dezgard on January 27, 2019, 06:27:18 AM
I checked them all haha still never appeared, are there conditions other than just checking bars on independent worlds? money in wallet etc?

Representative moves to different market every 60 days, you also need a million of credits to buy a thing which gives you access to Vesperon services.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.2 - 24/01/19
Post by: Dezgard on January 27, 2019, 12:44:30 PM
Quote from: Avanitia on January 27, 2019, 09:30:16 AM
Quote from: Dezgard on January 27, 2019, 06:27:18 AM
I checked them all haha still never appeared, are there conditions other than just checking bars on independent worlds? money in wallet etc?

Representative moves to different market every 60 days, you also need a million of credits to buy a thing which gives you access to Vesperon services.

Little annoying hehe.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.2 - 24/01/19
Post by: FreedomFighter on January 27, 2019, 09:40:42 PM
Quote from: Dezgard on January 27, 2019, 12:44:30 PM
Little annoying hehe.

You can zip around with only 1 speedy ship on your fleet to find that bugger.

I'm wondering if Independent got smack around until they have only 1 market left would that a guaranteeing agent to be found there?
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.2 - 24/01/19
Post by: DrakonST on January 27, 2019, 10:28:19 PM
I blow up all independent planets and station on the sector leaving single Prism Freeport and i wait 1 cycle for this quest. I just stay near station and every month check bar events. And i not see this ***!

But when i start new game i found this on first day! And this quest dont do anything because i have to low reputation(0/100) on independent. After some time i reach 100/100 reputation on independent but now i cant found this stupid quest!

It seems quest have limited quantity of a respawn. Or too small chanse to spawn.

Better to tie this mission to the certain planet. Yep, planet can be decivs(but it player problem if he blow-up this market) but it will be more easy to found this ***.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.2 - 24/01/19
Post by: Straticus on January 28, 2019, 01:51:33 AM
I’ll change this in future because it’s frustrating as far as gameplay is concerned. Also need to take into account some of the more dynamic universe offered by Nex!
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.2 - 24/01/19
Post by: FreedomFighter on February 02, 2019, 12:17:15 AM
Quote from: Straticus on January 28, 2019, 01:51:33 AM
I’ll change this in future because it’s frustrating as far as gameplay is concerned. Also need to take into account some of the more dynamic universe offered by Nex!

Took me 15 min with devmode to instant jump around all independent market to find the agent. Yea we could use some change. Make it one of story quest chain might fitting them. It would allow you to expand and tell more about their story.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.2 - 24/01/19
Post by: Troika on February 10, 2019, 10:23:13 PM
Might be best to restrict them to always spawn at Prism Freeport, or at Independent military markets only.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.2 - 24/01/19
Post by: Straticus on February 11, 2019, 01:55:08 PM
It seems as though I got the bar event logic wrong, which means the agent rotation doesn't work and the event creator ends up never getting fired again. So, the next version will have two agents who will randomly move around two different Independent markets once every 30 days, and that should hopefully sort this out for the long term. (If you're running Nex, and all the Indy markets have been wiped out, you can always 'donate' your own colony to the Indies for the agent to appear at!)
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.2 - 24/01/19
Post by: Fantastic Chimni on February 16, 2019, 08:09:02 PM
Is there any way to force the event to trigger via console command? Or is it impossible to make it work if you dont get it in the first 60 days?
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.1.2 - 24/01/19
Post by: FreedomFighter on March 01, 2019, 06:54:51 AM
Quote from: Straticus on February 11, 2019, 01:55:08 PM
It seems as though I got the bar event logic wrong, which means the agent rotation doesn't work and the event creator ends up never getting fired again. So, the next version will have two agents who will randomly move around two different Independent markets once every 30 days, and that should hopefully sort this out for the long term. (If you're running Nex, and all the Indy markets have been wiped out, you can always 'donate' your own colony to the Indies for the agent to appear at!)

In this case, would it be a good idea to make one agent permanent on the Prism Freeport?
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Straticus on March 03, 2019, 11:23:42 AM
New point release. Should not break existing saves, and will make Vesperon recruiters cycle properly through Independent worlds every so often. Also, Vesperon agents should now appear (and disappear) when worlds are colonised and change hands.

Code
v1.2.0
---

- Add a second recruiter
- Move recruiters around independent worlds more reliably
- Vesperon cache reps spawn/despawn dynamically on worlds run by Independent authorities
- ...and also player colonies, for extra convenience :)

Download v1.2.0 (https://github.com/straticJeff/vesperon/archive/v1.2.0.zip)
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Versil on March 05, 2019, 12:15:36 AM
Still cant find a new agent after sierra core quest  :(
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Kulverstukass on March 11, 2019, 01:58:41 PM
Hegemony: Wat dis? :o
Vesperon Combine: ::)
Spoiler
(https://cdn3.imggmi.com/uploads/2019/3/11/38ff75f9c5e7c810d3e48e37eccbc0b2-full.png)
[close]

Working like a charm, updated from previous version, where haven't even seen bar event.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Kulverstukass on March 13, 2019, 02:30:45 AM
Okay, not so flawless as I've thought, it seems.
Looks like combat with non-remnant defenders fleet spawn debris field (kinda close to the star), that cannot be interacted properly - it's stuck in dialogue, with "null pointer exception" as welcome message and then just "null" as answer for "leave & proceed" options.

what .log says
Spoiler
1333617 [Thread-4] WARN  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.A  - Problem with command of class com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.salvage.SalvageSpecialInteraction: null
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.FleetMember.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.createFleetMember(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.salvage.special.ShipRecoverySpecial. addMember(ShipRecoverySpecial.java:248)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.salvage.special.ShipRecoverySpecial. init(ShipRecoverySpecial.java:160)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.salvage.special.ShipRecoverySpecial. init(ShipRecoverySpecial.java:151)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.salvage.SalvageSpecialInteraction$SalvageSpecialDialogPlugin.init(SalvageSpecialInteraction.java:57)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.salvage.SalvageSpecialInteraction.ex ecute(SalvageSpecialInteraction.java:165)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.A.execute(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.Object.runScript(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.applyRule(FireBest.java:98)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.execute(FireBest.java:47)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.A.execute(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.Object.runScript(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.applyRule(FireBest.java:98)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.execute(FireBest.java:47)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.fire(FireBest.java:53)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.fireBes t(RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:176)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.optionS elected(RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:208)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.U$1.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.oOOO.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.OoO0.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.oooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.?00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.oooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.OoO0.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Q.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.donew.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.donew.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.oOOO.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Q.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.donew.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.donew.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.while.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.U.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Q.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.donew.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.donew.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Q.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[close]
alt+f4 is our only escape

PS: debris field seems to behave normally when there is more than one of defensive fleet debris, as my previous bad experience was with just one. But they still spawn close to star, not where fight for facility was.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: AxleMC131 on March 13, 2019, 10:18:12 PM
Pretty sure that's not a Vesperon bug, that's been reported several times before as a general game bug. If you have Console Commands you can force escape the dialogue, I think just "enddialogue" is the command.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Avanitia on March 14, 2019, 12:29:57 AM
Quote from: AxleMC131 on March 13, 2019, 10:18:12 PM
Pretty sure that's not a Vesperon bug, that's been reported several times before as a general game bug. If you have Console Commands you can force escape the dialogue, I think just "enddialogue" is the command.

Command you have to use is "forcedismissdialog", but there's a catch, it's not in released version (the one you download in first post of the thread).
You need the Console Commands version from this message (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=4106.msg243221#msg243221).
Newest build should work.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Kulverstukass on March 14, 2019, 02:20:15 AM
Quote from: AxleMC131 on March 13, 2019, 10:18:12 PM
Pretty sure that's not a Vesperon bug, that's been reported several times before as a general game bug. If you have Console Commands you can force escape the dialogue, I think just "enddialogue" is the command.
Thanks, mate.
Haven't got that before combat for Vesperon facilities, ever.
On the other hand, debris fields from them stopped being bugged after I've posted here, lol.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Cyan Leader on May 30, 2019, 09:06:27 AM
I might be mistaken but it seems that all Remnant fleets spawned by this mod don't employ officers, which can make them quite easy to defeat since there is a huge difference when fighting Remnants without good shields and stats.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: vorpal+5 on June 12, 2019, 11:23:23 PM
Hi,
Is this kind of interaction from your mod? This is the kind of mini-surprise I crave for and delight me. That exploration is really that, a surprise at the corner!

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/5636/5qEB80.jpg)
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: TimeDiver on June 12, 2019, 11:42:07 PM
Quote from: vorpal+5 on June 12, 2019, 11:23:23 PM
Hi,
Is this kind of interaction from your mod? This is the kind of mini-surprise I crave for and delight me. That exploration is really that, a surprise at the corner!
It's from Nexerelin. Looked through the .csv files, found the line.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Hrothgar on June 13, 2019, 01:44:48 AM
There are several encounters with remnants of humanity on some planets. They will trade with you, offer some help for something in return etc.
What i really want is a remnant wich offer blueprint for something.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Shad on June 22, 2019, 08:19:39 AM
In my last game, I cannot seem to find the Vesperon recruiter at all. I saw one very early on, when I did not have enough independent standing. After this, nothing. I used console commands to teleport beween all the independent markets thinking maybe I was unlucky, but there appears to be no recruiter present on any of them.

Is there some way I can check in the save game file where he is, or just activate him by save game editing?
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Maelstrom on June 24, 2019, 03:18:50 PM
Wish i could do that to! I cant seem to find a recruiter anywhere either!
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: jeffg10 on June 30, 2019, 06:57:42 PM
Quote from: Shad on June 22, 2019, 08:19:39 AM
In my last game, I cannot seem to find the Vesperon recruiter at all. I saw one very early on, when I did not have enough independent standing. After this, nothing. I used console commands to teleport beween all the independent markets thinking maybe I was unlucky, but there appears to be no recruiter present on any of them.

Is there some way I can check in the save game file where he is, or just activate him by save game editing?
Quote from: Mealstrom on June 24, 2019, 03:18:50 PM
Wish i could do that to! I cant seem to find a recruiter anywhere either!
Agreed, i've played about 3 full playthoughs of the game now and not been able to find the recruiter, I would recommend upping the chance that they are at a player faction planet significantly per month, that way its possible to find him before then, but its really only reasonable to find him after you have an established presence in the sector by having a colony (plus it could make sense lore wise, if this shadowy faction has been around so long why wouldn't they go scout out the new burgeoning faction for useful hands or good talent)
(also, as for Mealstrom's comment, i don't know how possible this is but would could add a hook for if console commands is installed with your mod to activate him that way, but that could be hard and time consuming)
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Maelstrom on July 01, 2019, 03:58:03 PM
welp this on this run i managed to find it... so now that i know how rare the recruiter is and how hard it is to find it ill give you this advice: only look for it once you have about 2 million cr. You will need it on the spot. I wont spoil anything else but just know that once you found it its really straight forward from there on.

Also dont go looking for [REDACTED] [REDACTED], they only spawn once you speak with [REDACTED] and from what I understand there is an infinite number :)

good hunting!
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Warbiatch on August 14, 2019, 11:08:02 AM
Hey there, I crash nearly everytime I want to enter the bar and the log files always say something about vesperon so I figured it might have something to do with your mod...I posted it already in the bug section but I don't know if you check there so I'm gonna try here as well. If it is not caused by your mod - my humble apologies for bothering you...

So just to clarify, almost everytime i enter the bar the game gives me a Nullpoint thingy and I have to alt+f4 out of the game. Sometimes (seems like when there are just vanilla options it doesn't crash)

Log(s):
Spoiler
173371 [Thread-4] WARN  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.super  - Problem with command of class com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.missions.BarCMD: null
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.intel.bar.events.VesperonMembership BarEvent.setRepMarkets(VesperonMembershipBarEvent.java:106)
   at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.intel.bar.events.VesperonMembership BarEvent.shouldShowAtMarket(VesperonMembershipBarEvent.java:60)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.missions.BarCMD.showOptions(BarCMD.java:111)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.missions.BarCMD.execute(BarCMD.java:85)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.super.execute(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.ooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.runScript(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.applyRule(FireBest.java:98)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.execute(FireBest.java:47)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.fire(FireBest.java:53)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.fireBes t(RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:176)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.optionS elected(RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:208)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.Objectsuper$1.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.super.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newnew.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.O0Oo.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
343226 [Thread-4] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Cleaning up music with id [expanse.ogg]
343226 [Thread-4] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Cleaning up music with id [Unknown.ogg]
343231 [Thread-8] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Cleaning up music with id [faction_generic_market_01_neutral_var01.ogg]
343538 [Thread-10] WARN  com.fs.starfarer.C.o0oO  - Error initializing music source - AL error 40964
java.lang.RuntimeException: Error initializing music source - AL error 40964
   at sound.oo0O.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at sound.null.super(Unknown Source)
   at sound.null.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.int.void(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.int.Ö00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.C.o0oO.class(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.C.o0OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.class(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.C.F.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.C.F$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[close]

Second one (different bar, different dialogue option);
Spoiler
4280918 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.events.OfficerManagerEvent  - Added officer at cbef, 40 total available
4282068 [Thread-4] WARN  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.super  - Problem with command of class com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.missions.BarCMD: null
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.intel.bar.events.VesperonMembership BarEvent.setRepMarkets(VesperonMembershipBarEvent.java:106)
   at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.intel.bar.events.VesperonMembership BarEvent.shouldShowAtMarket(VesperonMembershipBarEvent.java:60)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.missions.BarCMD.showOptions(BarCMD.java:111)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.missions.BarCMD.execute(BarCMD.java:85)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.super.execute(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.ooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.runScript(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.applyRule(FireBest.java:98)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.execute(FireBest.java:47)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.fire(FireBest.java:53)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.fireBes t(RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:176)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.optionS elected(RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:208)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.Objectsuper$1.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.super.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newnew.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newnew.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.super.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.N.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.Objectsuper.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
4282731 [Thread-10] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Creating streaming player for music with id [ii_market_friendly.ogg]
4282732 [Thread-10] INFO  sound.null  - Playing music with id [ii_market_friendly.ogg]
4285461 [Thread-4] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Cleaning up music with id [DysonSphere.ogg]
4285461 [Thread-4] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Cleaning up music with id [miscallenous_corvus_campaign_music.ogg]
4285478 [Thread-8] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Cleaning up music with id [ii_market_friendly.ogg]
4285736 [Thread-10] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Creating streaming player for music with id [ii_market_friendly.ogg]
4285737 [Thread-10] INFO  sound.null  - Playing music with id [ii_market_friendly.ogg]
[close]

Mods used:

(https://i.imgur.com/b7sINxn.png)

Thank you in advance!
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Alpacalypse on August 16, 2019, 04:57:49 PM
Is this compatible with preexisting saves or does it require a new save?
Not familiar with the workings of faction mods.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Delta7 on August 16, 2019, 09:00:54 PM
Does this work with 0.9.1?
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Rafs on August 17, 2019, 01:07:52 AM
Have yet to find the recruiter, but that might be duo to 9.1, like some pointed out would be good if he had a forced spawn on Prism Freeport, or on a specific vannila Independent world.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: TimeDiver on August 17, 2019, 06:25:02 AM
Quote from: Delta7 on August 16, 2019, 09:00:54 PM
Does this work with 0.9.1?
Quote from: Rafs on August 17, 2019, 01:07:52 AM
Have yet to find the recruiter, but that might be duo to 9.1, like some pointed out would be good if he had a forced spawn on Prism Freeport, or on a specific vannila Independent world.
Technically, this mod does work, but even before 0.9.1 it became nigh-impossible to encounter the recruiter a second/third time.

Quite bluntly, the scripting for said encounter needs a significant re-work to boost the frequency of said encounters.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Alorex on August 17, 2019, 07:35:33 AM
last game i could never locate the agent even once.

This time i used the console commands to 'goto' every market and even several panther bases on the same day..... then did it again a couple months later.
Then i tried something reckless and toggled the mod off loaded game and on again ( after make a copy of my save ) then cheated my way threw the known universe once again.
Like a unicorn that craps gold and rainbows, this agent is a myth. But hey, at least i have picked up some fantastic administrators.

A script that summons this S@%# or an update that places one of them squarely in Prism Freeport would bring much joy.

PS: Could really use this, this game due to having only found a staggering amount of the same 7 blueprint packages after exploring the entire sector. (never had that happen before)
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Rafs on August 18, 2019, 01:52:37 AM
Quote from: Cyan Leader on May 30, 2019, 09:06:27 AM
I might be mistaken but it seems that all Remnant fleets spawned by this mod don't employ officers, which can make them quite easy to defeat since there is a huge difference when fighting Remnants without good shields and stats.
Noticed I am having the same issue, and the only difference in mods from my last playtrough is this mod.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Keld_Rhygar on August 24, 2019, 12:50:37 AM
Has anyone got a version of this that guarantees the spawn at all times? I see some people are having a hard time finding him, and I'd rather avoid that if possible.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Straticus on August 27, 2019, 03:04:29 PM
Work on this is continuing, but I won't be releasing a hotfix until my current round of changes is done.

Here's the confirmed changelog:

Version 2 should generally address the gameyness of what I've implemented so far - the current version's encounters basically occur in a gameplay vacuum, which makes it too easy, and I'm not satisfied with that. Stay tuned ;D
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Keld_Rhygar on August 30, 2019, 04:51:06 PM
That update sounds good, +1 for bar encounter fix
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: miles341 on September 23, 2019, 07:12:32 AM
Yeah, I'm really looking forwards to this update too, haven't had the bar event drop for me either. Cycle 222, checked every independent world I came across, even did the same as other people and console commanded to every independent world in a single day.  Still haven't gotten it to drop. I have so much money and nothing to spend it on :( Wish there was a way to force it too. My previous save had it work fine, now it just won't spawn at all, which is a shame as I really liked this mechanic.

Don't suppose there's an easy line of code to change in the files to add that priority flag? I hope it's not just a mod conflict...
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Shad on September 23, 2019, 07:53:42 AM
Quote from: miles341 on September 23, 2019, 07:12:32 AM
Yeah, I'm really looking forwards to this update too, haven't had the bar event drop for me either. Cycle 222, checked every independent world I came across, even did the same as other people and console commanded to every independent world in a single day.  Still haven't gotten it to drop. I have so much money and nothing to spend it on :( Wish there was a way to force it too. My previous save had it work fine, now it just won't spawn at all, which is a shame as I really liked this mechanic.

Don't suppose there's an easy line of code to change in the files to add that priority flag? I hope it's not just a mod conflict...

Not that I found. If you start a new game, agent will spawn with the initial spawns but then vanishes when he's supposed to be moving to another market, so if you want to guarantee it on next playthrough:

1. Pause game immediately after new game start.
2. Console command yourself 1 million money and 20 prisoners.
3. Repatriate prisoners at independent market for max standing.
4. Teleport between indy markets until you find the bar event.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: miles341 on September 23, 2019, 08:01:52 AM
Quote from: Shad on September 23, 2019, 07:53:42 AM
Quote from: miles341 on September 23, 2019, 07:12:32 AM
Yeah, I'm really looking forwards to this update too, haven't had the bar event drop for me either. Cycle 222, checked every independent world I came across, even did the same as other people and console commanded to every independent world in a single day.  Still haven't gotten it to drop. I have so much money and nothing to spend it on :( Wish there was a way to force it too. My previous save had it work fine, now it just won't spawn at all, which is a shame as I really liked this mechanic.

Don't suppose there's an easy line of code to change in the files to add that priority flag? I hope it's not just a mod conflict...

Not that I found. If you start a new game, agent will spawn with the initial spawns but then vanishes when he's supposed to be moving to another market, so if you want to guarantee it on next playthrough:

1. Pause game immediately after new game start.
2. Console command yourself 1 million money and 20 prisoners.
3. Repatriate prisoners at independent market for max standing.
4. Teleport between indy markets until you find the bar event.

Probably not going to start a new game any time soon unfortunately, kinda doing real well on the current one, but I'll keep that in mind for next time. Hopefully by then it will have updated and this will no longer be necessary though...
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Rafs on December 16, 2019, 01:19:58 PM
Can't wait for the update to drop, current playthrough exploring about the last 10% of the galaxy, and I am still missing tons of BPs, can't wait until the update so I can start a new game and satiate my hunger for tech.

One question tough, would this be safe to add after starting a game?
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: NullType on December 18, 2019, 06:38:58 AM
I'm keenly interested in this mod for 0.9.1, but had a question of curiousity spawned from reading the... hectic beginnings.
I'm totally interested in getting the unobtainables as BPs via this mods methods, are there changes I could make to the mod on my end to re-enable that behavior?
Either way, keep it up, Straticus!
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Thebiggaffeur on January 05, 2020, 01:56:00 PM
Hey there !
I was playing with this mod and a ton of others (including nexerelin and many faction mods) and I never triggered the encounter event so I kinda forgot about it, until recently where I conquered more than 95 % of the inhabited planets and started invading independent worlds. Obviously I had a bad standing with them, but I finally triggered the encounter event. I couldn't finish it though, as my standing was too low. So I finished invading all independent worlds but gave them a very small one to keep the faction alive. After this, I tried looking for the contact; but frequently, when I entered the bar, there was an error (Normal text of a bar then NullPointerException : null and no dialog choice, no solution but to alt+F4). Now why do I talk about it here you ask ? Because in the logs, there was this error :
183087 [Thread-4] WARN  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.super  - Problem with command of class com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.missions.BarCMD: null
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.intel.bar.events.VesperonMembership BarEvent.setRepMarkets(VesperonMembershipBarEvent.java:106)
   at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.intel.bar.events.VesperonMembership BarEvent.shouldShowAtMarket(VesperonMembershipBarEvent.java:60)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.missions.BarCMD.showOptions(BarCMD.java:111)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.missions.BarCMD.execute(BarCMD.java:85)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.super.execute(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.ooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.runScript(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.applyRule(FireBest.java:98)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.execute(FireBest.java:47)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.fire(FireBest.java:53)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.fireBes t(RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:176)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.optionS elected(RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:208)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.Objectsuper$1.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.super.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newnew.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.O0Oo.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)


Anyone with the same problem/a solution/a fix ? I can give the mods list if needed.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Maelstrom on January 10, 2020, 08:25:20 PM
got an issue as well where the bar event triggers on bars on your starting planet and you get locked int he bar because there is no option to leave

Spoiler
1015553 [Thread-4] WARN  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.super  - Problem with command of class com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.missions.BarCMD: null
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.intel.bar.events.VesperonMembership BarEvent.setRepMarkets(VesperonMembershipBarEvent.java:106)
   at org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.intel.bar.events.VesperonMembership BarEvent.shouldShowAtMarket(VesperonMembershipBarEvent.java:60)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.missions.BarCMD.showOptions(BarCMD.java:111)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.missions.BarCMD.execute(BarCMD.java:85)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.super.execute(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.ooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.runScript(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.applyRule(FireBest.java:98)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.execute(FireBest.java:47)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.fire(FireBest.java:53)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.fireBes t(RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:176)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.optionS elected(RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:208)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.Objectsuper$1.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.super.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newnew.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newnew.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.super.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.N.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.Objectsuper.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[close]

happened twice on a nexerelin random sector save
there doesnt seem to be any issue in corvus though
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: RoquetheRogue on January 30, 2020, 08:24:44 PM
Not seeing the Bar Encounter either, despite having relationship with independents at 44
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Shadowkiller on February 27, 2020, 06:03:00 PM
Does this mod affect spawn rates of blueprints in vanilla content? im playing with grand sector and the first few systems i entered i got a pristine nanoforge and multiple battleship blueprints from things like supply caches.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Kh0rnet on March 20, 2020, 03:25:59 PM
Sorry, I might be stupid, but in days of gameplay I don't think I've even touched this mod's content. Can anyone point me to how/where to actually start it?
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: TaylorItaly on March 21, 2020, 04:17:02 AM
If your relationship with the independents is 100/100 you can find am official in independent stations , who will ask for 1.000.000 credits.
if you pay , you can contact vesperon officials to get locations of valueable places ( blueprints) .
But be warned , some of those are pretty good guarded , be carefull..l.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Super Neko on April 02, 2020, 02:11:47 PM
I have successfully made contact with the recruiter, paid the membership and complete the first mission. Now Vesperon representatives showed up in Independent worlds.

However, I'm getting the following error, after requesting information for new site and paying for the information.

"Illegal Argument Exception: n must be positive"

Nothing shows up in the Intel screens either.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Super Neko on April 04, 2020, 11:21:27 AM
So, I was able to complete a Level 1 mission. Anything higher than a Level 1 will result in the error "Illegal Argument Exception: n must be positive" in the dialogue screen withe Vesperon representative, after paying for the information.

This error doesn't crash the game, no CTD. The game continues, just the location of higher level cache not reveled.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Unnamed_Shadow on April 21, 2020, 07:50:27 AM
I hope this mod gets updated someday. Truly brings a unique mechanic, and with so many mod factions, you end up missing many blueprints.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: NephilimNexus on April 21, 2020, 02:39:50 PM
Finally an alternative to having to spam colonies onto every worthless planet that happens to have ruins hoping to find that ONE rare blueprint!
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: EatLikeAnOuroboros on June 25, 2020, 03:17:17 AM
Is there a way to get the agent to spawn with console commands? I'm at cycle 230 and still can't get one to spawn.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: rui9606 on July 02, 2020, 07:30:49 AM
Maybe consider have the agent stationed on a fixed location? While the mod is superb, finding this little s%^* is just way too hard, the first time I find him I have no money, and I cannot find him the second time around ::)(not even with console teleportation).  Pls just consider letting him stay put.  :-\
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: maxi1.1 on August 16, 2020, 10:25:59 AM
Ladies and Gentlemen,

Feedback: I really like your mod. The idea behind it is cool. It also fits the game lore nicely. The in game execution is good. There are some things that could be improved but, other users have already mentioned most of what I could think of in terms of bugs or improvements.

Suggestion: Upon first meeting, the recruiter offers the player a small comm device. When the player is ready, he can activate the comm device to talk to the agent and pay the fee. This would make it easier to join after first contact. No more hopping the universe trying to find the one bar he currently is at.

Bug 1: If I start a new a game with the mod enabled, the recruiter appears at the first bar i visit. He can later be found for about 2 or 3 months but then completely disappears.

Workaround: Start the game without the mod. Then, when you have the 1 Million credit entry fee and wish to begin, add the mod to your existing game. The recruiter will appear at the first bar your visit. I did this a few hours earlier and it worked well. 

Potential Bug 2: After finishing the first mission all of the other agents offer no new contracts. Several months have passed. Always just "We are working on getting some new intel, please wait". Is this normal?


Summary: Please keep developing this mod. It is fun, helpful and adds more options to the game. More options are always great. If people don't like this particular one, they can just decide not use it. Please do not be discouraged!
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: fellabrando on November 06, 2020, 12:53:11 PM
Can we just be told how to activate the mission in console or the mod files?
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Delta7 on March 11, 2021, 06:20:55 PM
I like this mod, but jesus, finding the agent can be frustrating sometimes.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: theDragn on March 15, 2021, 06:44:48 PM
For everyone who can't find an agent, here is a workaround. You'll need Console Commands (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=4106.0) installed.

Copy and paste the following command into the console (the entire thing) and hit enter:
Quote
runcode import com.fs.starfarer.api.Global;
import org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.ids.VesperonTags;
import org.stratic.fs.starsector.api.impl.campaign.intel.VesperonIntelManager;
VesperonIntelManager manager = (VesperonIntelManager)Global.getSector().getMemory().get(VesperonTags.KEY_MANAGER_INSTANCE);
manager.setPlayerVesperonMember(true);
manager.distributeMembershipAgents();

This will grant you membership and allow you to talk to the mission agents. It doesn't take any money, but it also won't give you a free cache like the initial membership event; you'll have to pay for them normally.

(if this is bad etiquette, I'll remove it, but this seems to be a recurring issue and it's been two years since the last update.)
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: DerkaDur on March 22, 2021, 07:22:59 PM
Just tried it and it does in-fact work, with the caveats you listed as well. Thanks, now I don't have to wait 10 in game years for the agent to pop up randomly
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Flacman3000 on April 14, 2021, 11:43:08 PM
is this mod compatible with 0.91a and will you be updating this any further? it's a splendid solution to my exploring issues.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Apogee_Freak on April 19, 2021, 11:29:11 AM
Quote from: Flacman3000 on April 14, 2021, 11:43:08 PM
is this mod compatible with 0.91a and will you be updating this any further? it's a splendid solution to my exploring issues.
It's compatible with 0.9.1. If you read through the latest posts you'll get a rough understanding of what issues you might come across.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Vesperon Combine 1.2.0 - 03/03/19
Post by: Apogee_Freak on April 19, 2021, 12:01:01 PM
Quote from: Super Neko on April 04, 2020, 11:21:27 AM
So, I was able to complete a Level 1 mission. Anything higher than a Level 1 will result in the error "Illegal Argument Exception: n must be positive" in the dialogue screen withe Vesperon representative, after paying for the information.

This error doesn't crash the game, no CTD. The game continues, just the location of higher level cache not reveled.
I'm having this same issue. Any level missions give the same exception in the dialogue. I cannot figure out what this n is referring to, the source code does not use n as a variable anywhere. I'm guessing this is an exception thrown from the starfarer API, meaning that there's a variable messing up at some point during the intel gen process.