Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => Mods => Topic started by: Ogaburan on December 08, 2018, 01:07:06 AM

Title: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Ogaburan on December 08, 2018, 01:07:06 AM
Greetings, first time posting. Thanks to the guys on discord for helping me find the post button after so many years of lurking.
So i thought for my first post i'll post a small-ish mod.

To the point:

Oga Portrait Pack v1.2 adds ~150 somewhat 'realistic' portraits.
(https://i.imgur.com/RUBtci4.png)
It replaces most of the vanilla ones and adds a sci fi frame to them. (https://i.imgur.com/gSKLwN5.png)
Why? It makes it easier for me to steal art more immersive!

The New Portraits the mod uses that will mostly *replace the vanilla ones, with a more subjective 'realistic' version:
* No need to back up existing files, mod will not replace existing game file. If you disable the mod the usual way, vanilla portraits will show up back again.

How it actually looks in game:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/O0LM8wo.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/IojNnDa.png)
[close]

In v1.2 I streamlined allot of the portraits so each faction will have an even more unique feel to it:

The Hegemony & The Sindarin Diktat
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/TWpwRhW.png)
[close]
League & Tri Tachion
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/Cqv5ESR.png)
[close]
Ludites, Various Indep. & Pirates
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/3FwjqwQ.png)
[close]


Also introducing in 1.2 is limited OPTIONAL mod 'support', the portraits and files can be found in the download link for supported mods.
Some assembly is still required, as you need to override said mods .faction file "portrait" section with the inside of the z_modname file included. Nothing a notepad cant do, and its pretty straight forward.
It mostly just adds a blue circle around existing portraits, and adds portraits i find fitting to MY understanding of the factions theme.
Honestly, its not even worth the hassle, but if you are developing minor ADHD, this really scratches the itch.
If you are using other mods, other then the one ive listed, you can use the blue template ive provided above, but thats really too much work now...
Still the option is there, if you have nothing better to do


Spoiler
Blackrock Drive Yards
(https://i.imgur.com/xfOyPAs.png)
just override the portraits from \mods\Blackrock Drive Yards\graphics\BR\portraits with the one in the z_file

Diable Avionics
(https://i.imgur.com/NeWiOgb.png)
just copy the portrait info section from the z_file into \mods\DIABLEAVIONICS\data\world\factions\diableavionics.faction (do not overwrite whole file!)

Foundation of Borken
(https://i.imgur.com/66YuHVs.png)
just replace the 2 portraits in \mods\Foundation Of Borken\graphics\portraits

Neutrino Corp
(https://i.imgur.com/lCttGHl.png)
dump the portraits FOLDER into \mods\Neutrino corp\graphics\neut
copy the portrait info from z_file to \mods\Neutrino corp\data\world\factions\neutrinocorp.faction (do not overwrite whole file!)

SCY Nation
(https://i.imgur.com/ft7Hono.png)
dump the portraits into \mods\SCY\graphics\SCY\portraits
copy the portrait info from z_file to the .faction file

Sylphon RND
(https://i.imgur.com/rd5z7K7.png)
same thing...

[close]


Changelog:
V1.2
- Updated for 1.9.1.a
- More streamlined realistic look, that should make each faction look unique
- Limited mod support

Spoiler

V1.1
- Better distribution of portraits to give a more cohesive "art direction" for vanilla factions.
- Added the sci fi border to the in game named characters you might meet.
v1
- Adds 157 Portraits
- Replaces all in game portraits, without overriding files
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Ambient on December 08, 2018, 06:24:22 AM
Very nice!
Title: Re: [0.9a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Oniontrader | Questionable Gents on December 08, 2018, 07:23:45 AM
Looks great man! Just one question:
If it replaces the original portraits does that mean I will need to make a backup of the old ones before I install your mod?
Title: Re: [0.9a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Kittah Khan on December 08, 2018, 08:14:19 AM
Looks great man! Just one question:
If it replaces the original portraits does that mean I will need to make a backup of the old ones before I install your mod?

No, thankfully, that's not how StarSector mods work.
If you have a portrait in starsector-core called "bla" and a mod also has a portrait called "bla", the mod's "bla" portrait will be preferred, if you disable the mod, it goes back to the default.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: travhill20 on December 08, 2018, 08:20:35 AM
They look really nice! Good for you for making what I think is the first black starsector character. I have one small critique, you should probably remove the Stellaris art.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Oniontrader | Questionable Gents on December 08, 2018, 08:28:50 AM
Looks great man! Just one question:
If it replaces the original portraits does that mean I will need to make a backup of the old ones before I install your mod?

No, thankfully, that's not how StarSector mods work.
If you have a portrait in starsector-core called "bla" and a mod also has a portrait called "bla", the mod's "bla" portrait will be preferred, if you disable the mod, it goes back to the default.


Thank you!
Title: Re: [0.9a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Daquan_Baton on December 08, 2018, 10:24:04 AM
They look really nice! Good for you for making what I think is the first black starsector character. I have one small critique, you should probably remove the Stellaris art.

SCY actually has two black character portraits.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: DrakonST on December 08, 2018, 11:57:02 AM
I more love Vanilla style. When game build in one style and mod put in game something from different style it looks realy not good.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Techhead on December 08, 2018, 01:17:32 PM
They look really nice! Good for you for making what I think is the first black starsector character.
SCY actually has two black character portraits.
Vanilla also has its fair share of black portraits as well. I was kinda curious exactly how many, so I went and counted. There's 16 of them in the current version.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: SierraTangoDelta on December 08, 2018, 02:08:54 PM
Hey, that's a nice border! Did you make that yourself?
I'd like to get that so I can add some portraits of my own.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Ogaburan on December 08, 2018, 11:19:38 PM
Looks great man! Just one question:
If it replaces the original portraits does that mean I will need to make a backup of the old ones before I install your mod?
Yeah, my wording is not the best... I will add some kind of disclaimer to address this.

They look really nice! Good for you for making what I think is the first black starsector character. I have one small critique, you should probably remove the Stellaris art.
Thanks!
Not even sure which ones are the Stellaris art, i just used what i thought looked nice or fit a theme.
And if we are going down that rabbit hole, im pretty sure Disney will be more angry at me for "borrowing" star trek likenesses rather then Paradox...

I more love Vanilla style. When game build in one style and mod put in game something from different style it looks realy not good.
Yeah I actually agree with you, but it was a compromise:
1. I like backgrounds, preferably ones with some kind of cockpit in the background (Lacking i know! But maybe something i will add in the future)
2. Not having borders limits me in the portraits i wanted to use
3. Being a square puts even more limitations on cropping
4. Cropping pictures to fit a template is far less time consuming, so instead of making 6 or 7 "proper portraits" I was able to make 157!
[sarcasm]And we all know quantity is better then quality![/sarcasm]
5. Ease of use, anyone with the template i provided can add anything they want, even 200 pictures of various.... *sigh* wifeus...

Hey, that's a nice border! Did you make that yourself?
I'd like to get that so I can add some portraits of my own.
Nope didn't do it myself, im pretty sure its freewhere as ive seen it on several dnd token makers/card making free programs... been using it for so long i dont recall exactly from where.

You can download it from the main post, and if you add something and want to incorporate it in this mod... well... the more the merrier!

I actually have a question myself;
Is there a way to edit the .faction files in the mod to actually stop a faction from using a certain vanilla portrait.
I mean, there are some portraits that hang around with Luddites, Persean League AND Hegemony... that is just wrong. I did my best to try and make each faction look unique in their pilots...
Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Obsidian Actual on December 09, 2018, 12:01:40 AM
From what I understand, you'd have to "whitelist" portraits for every faction, instead of "blacklisting" them.

An example of how this is done is HELMUT's own portrait pack (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=10836.0 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=10836.0)).

If you navigate to data > world > factions, you'll see that he has defined a .faction file for every faction ID (vanilla or modded).

The contents of each file is pretty straightforward:

Code
{
"portraits":{
"standard_male":[
"graphics/portraits/prt_2.png",
"graphics/portraits/prt_3.png",
"graphics/portraits/prt_4.png",
"graphics/portraits/prt_5.png",
],
"standard_female":[
"graphics/portraits/prt_1.png",
"graphics/portraits/prt_25.png",
"graphics/portraits/prt_35.png",
"graphics/portraits/prt_36.png",
],
},
},

It's tedious, but here you can specify the paths of the PNGs that should be allowed for NPCs of a certain faction/gender.
Making a PNG available for both genders is as simple as just having the path under both "standard_male" and "standard_female".

So yeah, if you have the patience to go through and do this for every faction (vanilla, and potentially some of your favorite modded ones), you're good to go.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Ogaburan on December 09, 2018, 01:24:17 AM
From what I understand, you'd have to "whitelist" portraits for every faction, instead of "blacklisting" them.

An example of how this is done is HELMUT's own portrait pack (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=10836.0 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=10836.0)).

If you navigate to data > world > factions, you'll see that he has defined a .faction file for every faction ID (vanilla or modded).

The contents of each file is pretty straightforward:

Code
{
"portraits":{
"standard_male":[
"graphics/portraits/prt_2.png",
"graphics/portraits/prt_3.png",
"graphics/portraits/prt_4.png",
"graphics/portraits/prt_5.png",
],
"standard_female":[
"graphics/portraits/prt_1.png",
"graphics/portraits/prt_25.png",
"graphics/portraits/prt_35.png",
"graphics/portraits/prt_36.png",
],
},
},

It's tedious, but here you can specify the paths of the PNGs that should be allowed for NPCs of a certain faction/gender.
Making a PNG available for both genders is as simple as just having the path under both "standard_male" and "standard_female".

So yeah, if you have the patience to go through and do this for every faction (vanilla, and potentially some of your favorite modded ones), you're good to go.

Heh, this is what I did!

I assumed this does not override vanilla rather merges with it, this is excellent new!
Back to the drawing board!
Title: Re: [0.9a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Ogaburan on July 20, 2019, 05:29:46 PM
Finally got to updating this mod, should work with 1.9.1.a, and some mod supposrt
Title: Re: [0.9a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: MesoTroniK on July 20, 2019, 11:25:33 PM
So wait a second, let me get this straight. Not only are you creating a mod using stolen art from God knows how many sources... You also are now adding this stolen art to the pool of portraits in other mods without asking first too!

But wait there is more, you are even modifying and overwriting the art from some of those mods that add their own original not stolen art. Man the stones on you, and I don't mean that in a good way.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Ogaburan on July 21, 2019, 12:06:25 AM
So wait a second, let me get this straight. Not only are you creating a mod using stolen art from God knows how many sources... You also are now adding this stolen art to the pool of portraits in other mods without asking first too!

But wait there is more, you are even modifying and overwriting the art from some of those mods that add their own original not stolen art. Man the stones on you, and I don't mean that in a good way.

lol, i knew someone like you will pop up. Thats why i didn't want to update this, despite requests.

To clarify, the art that overrides other mods are totally optional.
The original work clearly do not match my aesthetic choice (which is also an optional choice, and arguably a bad one), so people asked me to modify them.
I also claim nowhere ownership of the art, in fact unlike other portrait packs i clearly make fun of the obvious art "theft". If you are sensitive about, or want to compensate the artists involved who own the pictures, its really not hard to find who own the mostly famous people portraits i use, its for the large part Electronic Arts, Disruptor Beam, Inc., Tilting Point, Viacom ect...

Also, dont get me wrong, if the community thinks this is a faux pas, i will remove the mod.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: MesoTroniK on July 21, 2019, 12:43:11 AM
*Yawns*.

If by someone like me you mean someone who cares about you know, stolen art, not directly modifying other mods and adding stolen content to them without asking for permission or anything. Then yea of course this was going to happen sooner or later, how dare someone with even a smidgen of a moral compass show up and go yo that isn't cool man.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Ogaburan on July 21, 2019, 01:05:15 AM
I honestly dont get the criticism,

Its not the only, nor the first portrait pack to use "100% original artwork" - so not sure why singled out.
Regarding the altering of other mods;
1. Its all optional, to fit with the theme of the main portrait mod
2. For the most part it adds additional content, or just frames it in a blue-ish circle
3. No one is profiting out of this, nor begging for donations
4. Its clearly marked as not using original art, its just a collection of mostly pinterest pictures i found interesting and collected to fit a theme, you can literally see theses pictures there for free as well. Or not... being optional.

If any of the modders of the mods ive included "support" for, find this in poor taste i will remove if ofc.
I honestly dont find why optional 3rd party minor cosmetic changes will offend anyone, like adding a blue circle to "fit in".
Title: Re: [0.9a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: MesoTroniK on July 21, 2019, 01:12:48 AM
Other people steal so I can too!

Other mods have been called out for altering other mods without permission.

It is all optional, just download my mod that then messes with other mods putting them at risk of DMCA too!

For the most part it just adds additional stolen content, or frames it a blue circle. Oh also replaces all the BRDY portraits with stolen ones not just modifying them with a circle that bit is important too.

No one is making money from this, therefore stealing and then distributing said stolen content is OK!

I said it is stolen therefore it is OK that I stole it and also *** with other mods!


*yawns*
You got nothing, your arguments are about the worst I ever seen. This is a *** world man, thanks for making it even worse.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Ogaburan on July 21, 2019, 01:27:14 AM
For the most part it just adds additional stolen content, or frames it a blue circle. Oh also replaces all the BRDY portraits with stolen ones not just modifying them with a circle that bit is important too.

This is a valid point. I will explain my side.
If you prefer the old BRDY portraits, which are not bad at all, but i went for a more photo realistic collections (ive also deleted about 40 portraits from v1.1 as well, so nothing "personal"), you can NOT override them with the optional files included, as its quite a hassle anyway.
You can also use the blue circle i provided, and add and tweak any existing portrait in this collection if you dont like it.
This is just my interpretation of my starsector, no one says its better or any good then anyone else.
If you prefer a collection of waifus instead of this photo realistic collection, feel free to use that instead. Or even better, combine them! lol
Title: Re: [0.9a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Gwyvern on July 21, 2019, 03:41:17 AM
You know, it only takes a short conversation with someone to ask if they want their work to be included in something like this, before doing all the work on your end and getting attached to the result, and most of the big mod makers at least are open to cooperation with new ventures if their creators are willing to, you know, actually cooperate.

What is a lot harder, is to go through all the trouble, doing something like this, dropping it at the feet of the people it affects, and then going "I'm here now, deal with it"

Furthermore, given that your mod could potentially put anyone included at risk of legal ramifications, I'm fairly certain most would say no in this case. And if you had bothered asking anyone beforehand, you probably would have found this out before putting all the work in.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: namad on July 21, 2019, 05:05:18 AM
I've been using this mod in 0.9.1 BEFORE it was updated and it worked totally fine.

I like the stolen art. Half the point of mods is that you can use stolen art in it. The developer of a game can't include stolen art, but the fans of a game can patch it in. Most sci-fi games have a star trek mod a star wars mod and sometimes even a babylon 5 mod or stargate mod. This has been true for decades. The fact the owners of those properties haven't been sue'ing is actually legal justification to keep doing it, given the way copyright works.

On top of that the usage of that art is transformative, I doubt there's an official kira avatar from star trek that he literally just took, he must've edited someone's drawing of kira.... which of course the artist that drew that art ALREADY didn't likely have permission to draw kira because it looks more like fan art of kira than ya know anything official.

That's the thing, for the most part fan artists don't have any rights, it's paramount that has those rights to complain, and I don't think they're going to. Given what they've historically allowed fans to do and what they haven't. So for example in that one case, the "stolen" art is basically entirely legal.


Now for anything stolen that is original content from an artist? Yes I agree it is 100% stealing. But personally I like the star trek inclusions and I don't see any real legal justification for not using them in my game. So, thanks!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Avanitia on July 21, 2019, 05:28:48 AM
Stolen art work is one thing - I am not really knowledgeable about such things, but in my opinion, obtaining permission to use content owned by other person should be done first.

As for modifying other mods - it's a big no from me. From my experience, a lot of people don't even know what each mod adds ("Is this vanilla?", while content is from Ship/Weapons Pack and other similar mods) which leads to my next point.

By modifying portraits added by other mods, you can cause issues for other modders, because stuff added by you to their mod can be assumed to be added by mod's author.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Recklessimpulse on July 21, 2019, 05:41:20 AM
ON the other hand, a few mods have looks that wildly differ from the rest of Star Sectors and it's nice to change that from a personal immersion point. Un-like you I think of it as akin to an art pack for ToMe or Dwarf fortress sure the mod maker may want you to use aski like they intended but that's just not preferable at times.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: fewd on July 21, 2019, 06:34:06 AM
Is being butthurt about a few ruthlessly stolen portraits really a thing nowadays? Wow.

People have been using various portrait packs in countless games and this is the first time I see someone whining about stealing precious pixels to make a game look slightly nicer. If memory serves Baldur's Gate was the first game I saw bigger portrait packs for and I seriously doubt anyone went to R.A. Salvatore's publisher to ask if they can use whatever magic elf picture for their character. Personally I don't use the Oga pack since I don't want the blue circles but I see absolutely no problem with this, unless some artist specifically contacts you and asks you not to use their pixels.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Ogaburan on July 21, 2019, 06:47:51 AM
Stolen art work is one thing - I am not really knowledgeable about such things, but in my opinion, obtaining permission to use content owned by other person should be done first.

As for modifying other mods - it's a big no from me. From my experience, a lot of people don't even know what each mod adds ("Is this vanilla?", while content is from Ship/Weapons Pack and other similar mods) which leads to my next point.

By modifying portraits added by other mods, you can cause issues for other modders, because stuff added by you to their mod can be assumed to be added by mod's author.

But thats exactly what im not doing, the base mod does not altet any other mod.

The mod itself is modular. Only if you want, you have instructions on how to alter other mods, in the form of partial .faction files. So therre is no way to do this, without actually seeing what you are altering. There is also no way it will cause any issues to other mods. Its just extra steps if you want to keep the same aestetic vision. Its more of a guideline and examples then an actual 'finnished product'. Thats why i marked it with partial mod support, 70% of the installation needs to be done by whoever downloads it.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Harmful Mechanic on July 21, 2019, 09:48:33 AM
Yeah, please remove me from the list of mods yours affects. I don't want to be associated with this, and I don't want anyone to think I was responsible for your copyright violations.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on July 21, 2019, 11:54:22 AM
All it takes it is a lawyer, a unpaid intern or a bot trolling youtube to make both a streamer's and Alex's life hell. Let me give you a scenario:
-A new streamer/ let's player finds starsector and enjoys it and thinks to start streaming it to show off this little gem of a game.
-Either they notice or one of their watchers notice that it can be easily modded, so they mod it to hell and back
-Because of the mod overwriting other mod's portraits, this mod and its artwork is front and center
-While streaming or after uploading the stream, they get noticed by a bot or a lawyer and they drop a DMCA on the streamer and or Alex because they don't know it is a mod.
--Bonus points: It is said streamer's 3rd strike

Now you have a p***ed off streamer, along with possibly their fanbase and a lawyer too, all getting on Alex because "your game included stolen artwork!" so now he has to dig through which mod was at fault and might even have to hire legal help. All because a mod is using copyrighted portraits.

"But it is transformative!/ It is just a mod!" you say. Bots/ lawyers don't care, ESPECIALLY when you can't fight back. These days it is easy as hell to strikes and these companies know you can't fight it

Also, most people get portrait packs to EXPAND the pool of portraits, not to override it. And overriding MOD content as well is a pretty d*** move in my opinion. You are replacing portraits that these modders worked hard on with your ripped pics/ artwork. Not cool man, not cool.
"But you can just go into the files and turn that off!" Yeah no. People are lazy and normal people aren't going to go into the files and do that themselves and the modders know this. That is why you work WITH the modders and do a whitelist
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Ogaburan on July 21, 2019, 01:57:03 PM
Yeah, please remove me from the list of mods yours affects. I don't want to be associated with this, and I don't want anyone to think I was responsible for your copyright violations.
Erm Sure...?
You actually had no art that i replaced (you dont have portraits in your mod, i double checked)... other then vanilla assets - which this mod changes. It was just the most detailed example (since you have the most .faction files), in case someone wanted to change existing mods.

Purely theoretical.

Anyway i removed the instructions on how to add portraits to your mod, along with my recommendation of which portraits form my collection will best fit with your faction.

...
Let me give you a scenario:
...
If we are theory crafting here, then let me also give you a scenario. A streamer, being a responsible adult running a business. Wont add content clearly marked as "stolen art" to a commercial product.

Because,
This mod is hardly revolutionary in its concept, nor unique on the forum.
Part of modding was, and always will be, kit-bashing different commercial products together (and i use this term quite deliberately). I do jest about "stealing art" (mostly aimed at streamers btw, as a clear warning that will show on rudimentary searches), but what i did with this mod is nothing different then adding Thomas the Steam Engine to Skyrim or the Voice of Duke Nukem to the modern XCOM (Both trademarked assets) ect. Its all potentially copy-right infringement, it also wont stand in any court other then an automated one.

Also, most people get portrait packs to EXPAND the pool of portraits, not to override it. And overriding MOD content as well is a pretty d*** move in my opinion. You are replacing portraits that these modders worked hard on with your ripped pics/ artwork. Not cool man, not cool.
This is a somewhat valid point.

The first part about 'EXPANDING' content is something i disagree with. As a concept many mods add/expand/exclude/override content.
That IS the whole idea of modifying a game, actually modifying it.
Its all subjective at the end of the day. Some might find some minor thing immersion breaking/OP, some might not. To each their own.

The second part i already addressed, but i'll try again.
By default the mod does not alter any mods, but clearly my portraits will stick out because of their blue circle around them.
To rectify this ive added a set of instructions on how to bring everything to the same aesthetic level as the rest of the mod, and some pictures of how it will look in game.
By design, anyone who wants to override art with my instructions, has to ACTUALLY LOOK AT IT before altering it.
I think this is the least "*** move" a mod that alters aesthetics at the end of the day (thus subjective) can do.

So i am sorry if this is not cool or offends, it seems a somewhat foreign concept in this modding community, but its not a faux pas and quite standard in other communities.
Also as i said, if anyone wants i'll remove the optional files linked with their mod.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Harmful Mechanic on July 21, 2019, 03:00:23 PM
Yeah, please remove me from the list of mods yours affects. I don't want to be associated with this, and I don't want anyone to think I was responsible for your copyright violations.
Erm Sure...?
You actually had no art that i replaced (you dont have portraits in your mod, i double checked)... other then vanilla assets - which this mod changes. It was just the most detailed example (since you have the most .faction files), in case someone wanted to change existing mods.

Purely theoretical.

Anyway i removed the instructions on how to add portraits to your mod, along with my recommendation of which portraits form my collection will best fit with your faction.

Absolutely sure, and thank you. I'm not sure when I'll get around to doing portraits, but I also don't want you messing with any I add in the future.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: namad on July 21, 2019, 06:24:19 PM
Lawyer's don't just sit around trying to make trouble. Paramount basically has a policy of never going after non-profit fanworks that don't literally use their art (as in literally using their footage and pictures). Paramount already hired lawyers. Some random 25 year old can't just sue alex without Paramount's permission.

But yeah, 100%, BOTs go after this stuff really hard. On youtube that is, not on twitch, or really anywhere but youtube. Not really because of lawyer's but just because of youtube's automated systems.
If you're a youtuber with 21 subscribers you will probably use this sort of mod, if you have millions of followers you just won't? All this said maybe some other IP is being copied here? That's the only one I've noticed just using my own brain though. Maybe there are others for things I don't know of.

For example including a mario portrait? Probably a bad idea, nintendo sometimes goes HARD at fanart. Paramount though is the opposite.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: MesoTroniK on July 21, 2019, 06:24:55 PM
You are a dirtbag Ogaburan, your entire argument is "others steal so I can too", and "because it has to be done manually by the end user I can mess with other mods by providing pre-made files without talking to the author".

Did you even look at the licenses for any of the mods you are doing this to? Hint, I know you didn't because some allow this and some do not. And to those of you defending him? Disgusting, if he wants to steal? Fine, he can wallow in his own trash and put himself at risk and while I won't like it but when he does this to other mods? It crosses a line that should not be.

Ask *first*, is that really so much to ask for you to show even a modicum of respect to other mod authors? But no, why would you do that when you don't do that for all the stolen art either. The internet is not a bucket of free goodies to use however you damn well please. There is a real person behind every screen, contrary to what you believe.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: namad on July 21, 2019, 06:29:20 PM
In terms of copyright law.... others steal so I can steal... is a valid defense. (Literally so in case of trademark cases, more metaphorically so in case of copyright).
Although yeah, if he's using another modders work? I can see why those modders would be upset. I'm lazy though and so I haven't dug around in any files, I've just used the 0.9 version stock. I'd be all for removing whatever optional files included, if only because hardly anyone is going even bother looking at those files, other than modders (who will be upset about it.)

If the non-modders who won't mind.... never look. Then at the same time the modders with the the interest to look are unhappy. It's pretty much a win-win to remove those files.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Plushie God on July 21, 2019, 09:37:44 PM
Aside from the fact that this is stolen art, the least you could do was ask permission. Modders should be acknowledged beforehand before you involve them in any of your works

Earlier in the thread Soren said he would rather not be affected by the mod. What if you actually made DME portraits? What then? Probably be taking down the mod temporarily. This is also not including the fact that the other modders involved have not caught wind of this mod yet.

Apart from the breaking of copyright laws, the least you could do was show basic manners and courtesy. Even if it’s as “small” as a portrait mod.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Harmful Mechanic on July 21, 2019, 10:14:20 PM
Artwork is automatically under copyright, and altering that artwork (I don't know who came up with the various percentage-alteration statements floating around the internet, but they're all nonsense) doesn't change that. At best, you might be let off the hook because there are no actionable damages, or there's nothing at stake worth a lawyer's time, but none of that has any bearing on the legality of what you're doing.

Trademark stuff is more complicated (https://www.sgrlaw.com/ttl-articles/trademarks-and-trademark-litigation/); but none of this really applies; registering a trademark for a free video game mod is double chocolate crazytown. If you need a trademark in the first place, you can afford to have a lawyer explain your rights and how to defend them.

(As far as morality, which is closer to where Meso is arguing from, I don't think copyright is a moral guideline, either; the moral guideline I would use is more like 'please 1) ask permission and 2) be adding value' and as far as I'm concerned we're 0 for 2 here.)

My only issue is that I don't want to be involved in this whole benighted mess, and he was nice enough to remove that from the thread if not from Dropbox, so I'm mostly happy.

What if you actually made DME portraits? What then?

I probably would have made the same request. I don't care if people tweak the mod, I just don't want to answer support comments if people are messing around in the files and caused the problem they want me to fix. 'Don't make work for other people unnecessarily' is just polite.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Ogaburan on July 21, 2019, 10:53:57 PM
Earlier in the thread Soren said he would rather not be affected by the mod. What if you actually made DME portraits? What then? Probably be taking down the mod temporarily. This is also not including the fact that the other modders involved have not caught wind of this mod yet.
I did, and already removed those optional recommendations. No issues what-so-ever.

Im reluctant to address it, but it seems i should.
There is a reason why mods not including totally original art, dont ask for permission first. It has nothing to do with rudeness, but i'll let the less naiive figure out why.
(this is standard practice, sometimes people even post on alts for the same reason)

Considering Meso's popularity and his "little" tantrum, i doubt this is not the most infamous mod starsector ever had.
In fact, only one guy coming to white-knight him is surprising to me.
As given the choice of getting good-boy points with a popular modder, or taking part is an extremely derivative aesthetic mod, is a no brainer to me.

Although yeah, if he's using another modders work? I can see why those modders would be upset. I'm lazy though and so I haven't dug around in any files, I've just used the 0.9 version stock.
You are welcome to dig, and find out i in fact do not. Unless you count adding blue circles to SCY, but thats something general my mod does.
Technically it is (but is it?), its also optional and not included in the main mod anyway. Its just so if anyone wants to combine the mods, they can make it all fit in the stupid circle.
Its part of making mods compatible with each-other (which is standard practice).

What this is really about, is that i suggested people might want to change the portraits Meso made for a mod.
(Something i did unknowingly btw, as its hard for an outsider to keep track of who is credited where, as a bunch of people are just credited everywhere without stating what they actually did)
Similar to the original artwork of the game itself, i find it to be good work (but who am i to judge), but not my cup of aesthetic tea or how i want to experience starsector.

Problem is, Meso seems to have carved himself somewhat of a position as the official unofficial portrait maker.
My mod is messing with his usefulness to the community AND more importantly his E-Begging bottom line.

If the non-modders who won't mind.... never look. Then at the same time the modders with the the interest to look are unhappy. It's pretty much a win-win to remove those files.
That was my initial statement, as soon as i understood this is not common practice in this modding community.
(Again, providing optional files, is very common in other communities)

After a few conversations with people, i found out not all people like this clique of the "Vice squad" Meso seems to be the head of (as a moderator in an unofficial discord).
A clique sitting on the sidelines yelling "OP!, Derivative!, Not 100% Original Art!" while E-Begging and driving away "sub par", or things that just dont mash with "their" version of starsector.
Needless to say, this is cancerous behavior.
Yelling "Haram" or "DMCA" wont stop people wanting, or preferring not so original artwork in their mods.
(Especially since legality has nothing to do with it, unless you stream and then a bot might take you down. Not all people who play starsector stream. Its literally scare tactics.)

It already has driven off would be modders.
Lets face it, the standards of modding are set EXTREMELY high for this game. Some very talented people who have enough free time contributed and are contributing.
It is already very intimidating for most. The forum is a graveyard of half finished efforts by people discouraged by this reason alone.
But even "derivative" work like "Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering - Only RED!" Has a place. (Just a silly example, Soren might even approve)
Even a simple act as giving a ship a paint-job is potentially hard work, especially for someone who is new to modding/programming/drawing/java/photoshop/gimp or lack of free time, or even a language barrier.
Baby's first mod, is usually a barely functional ugly mess. Yet still, people who make stuff, usually end up improving, and might one day contribute something even the "Vice Squad" would consider "worthy". People do tend to hover towards original work eventually, as a sense of pride if nothing else.

Having to stay hidden and unpublished due to lack of acceptance by that clique seems to have harbored resentment.
So i was actually asked by people to make something of a stand against this. Force people to make a public stand, so to say.
Im enough of an outsider not to care where the wind blows, and this mod is very stupid, so imagine how people react to something more substantial.

Another example,
From what i understand there isn't an official set in stone lore (Since the main writer leftorsomesuch) there is a general guideline.
Yet things are labeled not "lore friendly" left and right, by lore specialists.

But most important,
What if someone would want to make a Warhammer mod? An EVE mod? Haven forbid a StarTreck mod!
As it stands even talks about doing something like that is immediately shot down (and these are huge projects in need of collaborations if they are to be done justice).
Not sure this is the right approach, this is literally what mods are for.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Harmful Mechanic on July 21, 2019, 11:41:49 PM
I actually have a no-derivatives CC license (not that people read licenses), although really it's an I-dare-you case; I'm sure someone who really wanted to keep posting their low-effort junk could outlast my nearly-nonexistent willingness to give chase. I might decide, okay, this modding community has now become toxic, I'll just stop posting anything and maintain my own copy. The point of modding is fun, after all, and dealing with entitled gamer nerds who think they're customers or managers (https://imgur.com/1kS1zoL) is the opposite of fun.

I don't care if someone makes a Warhammer or EVE or Star Trek mod, but I don't think it would be any good; if the people who want one could make anything at all, they would have made something by now (feel free to make one and prove me wrong, though).
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: MesoTroniK on July 22, 2019, 12:00:25 AM
Oh my God, this is just LOL. You seem to think I took your mod as a personal attack? LOL, you sir are a hilarious dirtbag. I have brought up the same problems with other portrait mods that didn't even replace art. This has nothing to do with me, this has to do with you. Stop projecting and looking for something that doesn't exist and try looking in a mirror instead you stupid thieving troll.

I also have done very few portraits for anyone else (others have done far more in this community), if you are gonna do a call out maybe try doing a good job of it. But nah, you are bad at being bad which is pretty tiring. I can at least appreciate dirtbags who are good at doing what they do.

You call what I said earlier a tantrum? Nah, you might call this a bit of one though because congratulations you actually managed to *** me off this time because you are just telling lies and seeing things that don't even exist.

And E-begging... What? What E-begging? Again making up lies about me you dirtbag. Wow I got a donation button in my thread, such begging wow. And you are messing with my usefulness LOL. Everyone point and laugh at this man, for he shouts into the sky at that which he doesn't understand and seems to think his stolen asset mod somehow hurts my contributions or something? Most of contributions to other mods are work trades by the way, that and random advice :)

And again misrepresenting things, wow I offer balance advice so that drives folks off? That sounds like *their* problem. And driving off "sub par mods". Heh, yea I would love to have an example of that because it never happened. I have spent an inordinate amount of time helping other modders, as work trades and often even for nothing at all.

You are but shouting into the wind, accusing people of things that never happened and you sir are a piece of crap. Who still is modifying other mods heh.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Ogaburan on July 22, 2019, 12:56:02 AM
Oh my God, this is just LOL. You seem to think I took your mod as a personal attack? LOL, you sir are a hilarious dirtbag.
You are literally calling me names... both here and on PM's. English is not my native language, but i think i can spot an insult if its thrown in my face repeatedly.
You are literally asking for donations for admittedly minimal work.
Same insulting way you interpret what i did as theft, i can interpret what you do as e-begging. Both, technically right, but not nice.
I also have done very few portraits for anyone else (others have done far more in this community), if you are gonna do a call out maybe try doing a good job of it.
No one other than you, and the people you activelly rallied behind you, had problmes with this mod.
A mod that is featured in the main mod list for QUITE some time (December 2018).
A mod only revised due to popular demand.
You are  also  literally asking for people to publicly withdraw support (even those that gave it to me back in 2018, which i actually forgot i had lol [for SCY and DA, who are still relevant], as i dont use the forum's pm boxes much).

and this ISN'T your first time doing this, by your own words, every portrait pack needs to have your personal seal of approval.
High horse much.
And exactly proving my point, to anyone willing to give me the benefit of the doubt, despite your status.

Nothing i said is untrue.
You are just more popular and well established in this community. Not right.

I don't care if someone makes a Warhammer or EVE or Star Trek mod, but I don't think it would be any good; if the people who want one could make anything at all, they would have made something by now (feel free to make one and prove me wrong, though).
I actually agree with you, i also dont think these examples would be any FUN for me. And i probably wont use, in my game.

As to... "any good"? Just because we dont like ,literally the first three examples of franchises i came up with, does not mean no one else would find it fun.
These are at the end of the day popular franchises for whatever reason.
Just because a fan of these franchises with enough free time and know-how haven't discovered this modding community does not mean it wouldn't have potentially been a very popular total conversion.

But this kind of attitude is exactly why, someone will be totally discouraged from even attempting. Which is my point.
This is the first modding community where i experienced such negativity towards franchises with pre-existing artwork.
To the point that pictures of Captain Picard merit the written permission from Viacom themselves, so the community wont frown on its usage.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: MesoTroniK on July 22, 2019, 01:05:02 AM
Well, Ogaburan if you are gonna take shots at me? Tell the truth, I certainly have flaws that can be poked but instead you are sitting here telling lies. You came here, and updated your mod doing something modestly illegal, got called out for it, and are now throwing a fit while spewing lie after lie after lie about me.

Asking for donations, a passive button sitting in my mod thread at the very bottom... That is asking apparently? Kind of sort of but that is a stretch at the least! And if spending thousands of hours of work on my own mods and others is "minimal" then I would like to what you consider significant! And there is nothing to interpret here about theft, you yourself admitted it let alone a legal definition of it LOL.

Notice that I didn't post in this mod thread until you started modifying other mods? Protip, that was the same for other portrait mods too. I never said a word until they messed with other mods. That isn't asking for a seal of approval, it is asking for folks like you to respect others, their work, *and their mod licenses*. Once again stop projecting, this is on you not me.

You are doing nothing but making yourself look bad, this mod, what it does, what you are saying, and the lies you are spewing is transparent as a plate of glass while I stand here steadfast in the face of your fabrications. The burden of proof falls on you, pretty much every single thing you have said IS in fact untrue.

EDIT: Fixed Typos
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: MesoTroniK on July 22, 2019, 01:22:20 AM
This is worth a new post, not another edit.

You are literally calling me names... both here and on PM's. English is not my native language, but i think i can spot an insult if its thrown in my face repeatedly.

Do you *really* want to go there? Because I will post this PM that you started if that is what it takes, and it will vindicate me because I called you no names in that PM. The truth is self evident, to everyone but you.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Gothars on July 22, 2019, 02:28:35 AM
I'll lock this topic until we had time to investigate the various complaints about it.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Alex on July 23, 2019, 09:55:50 AM
Unlocking the topic.

@Ogaburan:
Please take down the download link in the OP. Copyright-infringing mods are not allowed on the forum; this broadly falls under the "no piracy or other illegal activities" section of the rules (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=2668.0).

It's also not right; I know I'd be unhappy if someone used portraits from Starsector for a mod in another game without asking first. (For the record, people *have* asked about this sort of thing and I've said yes before; it's not something I generally mind. Asking just shows a basic level of respect.) If you're able to obtain permission for whatever subset of the portraits, please feel free to re-post.


@MesoTroniK:
You've got a PM.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Ogaburan on July 23, 2019, 10:43:56 AM
Ive removed the link.

But, unless u guys want to keep it as some sort of guidline as to what is allowed, this thread can be deleted.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Alex on July 23, 2019, 10:52:08 AM
Thank you.

I'd prefer to keep the thread around, just for forum history purposes - generally threads that are no longer active are still around, right? But if you would strongly prefer for the thread to be removed instead, let me know and I'll do that.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Ogaburan on July 23, 2019, 10:56:51 AM
No, i think you are right.

I'll leave the OP unmolested as well then, other then removing the link.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: kerghnox on July 24, 2019, 12:11:50 AM
Could you clarify this a bit better? Does this mean IP mods are not allowed? And does this mean all other portrait mods should be deleted? Let's face it, it's unlikely they obtained permission from every single artist. And I doubt Square Enix gave permission to use Front Mission portraits. This also means DA needs a new logo.

Personally, I've never seen a dev get in trouble for allowing these kind of mods before, but you make the rules.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Vayra on July 24, 2019, 08:39:42 AM
Could you clarify this a bit better? Does this mean IP mods are not allowed? And does this mean all other portrait mods should be deleted? Let's face it, it's unlikely they obtained permission from every single artist. And I doubt Square Enix gave permission to use Front Mission portraits. This also means DA needs a new logo.

Personally, I've never seen a dev get in trouble for allowing these kind of mods before, but you make the rules.

For IP mods and portrait packs, you would need to either get permission to use the art, use public domain/abandonware art, or do your own art - this hasn't changed. This ruling is in line with the previous removal of the Galatia Complete music mod for including unauthorized content, for example.  :D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Harmful Mechanic on July 24, 2019, 08:09:29 PM
This is par for the course when you rely on borrowed or 'stolen' art; sure, maybe you fly under the radar, but when you stop flying under the radar, or when you move from a modding community where it's not worth anyone's time to call you on it vs. one where other modders and the dev take an active hand, there isn't any sane defense (you can argue that the laws ought to be different in the abstract, and maybe they should, but the dev's interest1 is in avoiding trouble with the laws as they are now).

The only way to ensure you can do literally whatever you want with an asset is to make sure you... own the rights to the asset. Everything else is some degree of hoping not to get caught or face any consequences.

1Even though we're past the days of individual music pirates being prosecuted, that didn't stop because it stopped being against the law; it stopped because it was impractical and bad PR (and PR, not legality, is the reason IP mods are mostly left alone). But if you run a forum and you routinely allow flagrant and actionable copyright violations... you might be worth going after.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: rashiakas on July 24, 2019, 11:35:01 PM
Am confused. Why is this http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=12493.0 tolerated, while this here isnt.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Tartiflette on July 24, 2019, 11:56:42 PM
As it has been pointed out already, everyone was fine letting this mod slip until the author started modifying other mods without asking for permission first.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: fewd on July 25, 2019, 04:33:18 AM
The mod didn't get taken down because it modified other mods, it got taken down because it contained copyright-infringing content as in he did not have permission from the IP owners of the portrait images. I thought Alex was pretty clear on this. And same should apply to every mod then, no?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: kerghnox on July 25, 2019, 07:20:02 PM

For IP mods and portrait packs, you would need to either get permission to use the art, use public domain/abandonware art, or do your own art - this hasn't changed. This ruling is in line with the previous removal of the Galatia Complete music mod for including unauthorized content, for example.  :D
So IP mods are generally fine, I understand that now.
The mod didn't get taken down because it modified other mods, it got taken down because it contained copyright-infringing content as in he did not have permission from the IP owners of the portrait images. I thought Alex was pretty clear on this. And same should apply to every mod then, no?
It should, but no one else was forced to remove or change their portrait mod. This is the only portrait mod that somewhat fits the game: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=10836.0 According to the reasoning given earlier, it should be deleted because it uses portraits from Front Mission 2. Portrait mods are basically banned now. Well, unless there's a mad man out there who is willing to draw everything or get permission from dozens of artists.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Oga Portrait Pack
Post by: Alex on July 25, 2019, 08:05:52 PM
Locking this thread; please keep in mind that discussing moderation decisions on the forum is against the forum rules.

To clarify, however: it's not feasible either for me or for the moderators to go through every mod and figure out who has or hasn't rights to what. Aside from it not being feasible, that's also not how I want to spend my time. But if there's an obvious issue and it's brought to my attention, then of course I'll take care of it.

There *have* been a number of cases where these sorts of mods - that is, mods using other games' visuals or someone else's music - did in fact do it the right way and obtained permission from the relevant artists. I don't think the assumption that if the mod uses something from another source it's automatically a problem is justified.

Numerous people have also reached out to me about using Starsector assets in mods for other games. So, yeah, this sort of thing happens the "right" way a fair bit.