Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => General Discussion => Topic started by: Deshara on November 18, 2018, 10:48:16 PM

Title: The Shrike
Post by: Deshara on November 18, 2018, 10:48:16 PM
is pretty good. I like it, I'm using it as my flagship with converted hangers; fielding broadswords, an ion laser and three tactical lasers and it's a monster.
Title: Re: The Shrike
Post by: Clockwork Owl on November 18, 2018, 10:55:46 PM
With ramming being a viable tactics.
I can't pilot it that well and the firepower certainly leaves something to be desired - but oh isn't it so fun to fly.
Title: Re: The Shrike
Post by: TaLaR on November 18, 2018, 11:16:43 PM
I find it quite lackluster.

Nowhere near powerful enough to challenge a Hammerhead head on and not maneuverable enough to get behind it (2 chained ability uses do not quite get you there). This is with both sides skill-less and Hammerhead not even being properly optimized (Balanced sim variant).
Plus it's just awkward to pilot with need to target/shield one direction while facing another for optimal ship system use.

Yes, player-piloted it can win against Hammerhead by using Sabots. But this applies to anything with medium Sabots, even Buffalo mk2 or Vigilance. Sabots are single use doping similar to SO, just in a different way.
Title: Re: The Shrike
Post by: Grievous69 on November 18, 2018, 11:39:12 PM
Yea it kinda feels weird to fly at first but I got used to it quickly. I must say, the ship system is really good, I thought it would be twitchy but it looks great. And yeah it's not really meant to go toe to toe with other destroyers since it's a light destroyer but I just can't help it and see it only as a support ship. Also shouldn't it have higher base speed? Even the description says there was no room for armor and flux components yet it has 100 speed, same as Medusa which looks like a tank compared to the sleek Shrike.
Title: Re: The Shrike
Post by: Embolism on November 18, 2018, 11:47:20 PM
Also shouldn't it have higher base speed? Even the description says there was no room for armor and flux components yet it has 100 speed, same as Medusa which looks like a tank compared to the sleek Shrike.

That's my main problem with the Shrike. It's basically a weaker Medusa in almost every way, and it's making the Medusa look like a beefy tank in comparison when the Medusa is meant to be the sleek, speedy Black Ops ship.
Title: Re: The Shrike
Post by: Thaago on November 19, 2018, 12:23:26 AM
I find it quite lackluster.

Nowhere near powerful enough to challenge a Hammerhead head on and not maneuverable enough to get behind it (2 chained ability uses do not quite get you there). This is with both sides skill-less and Hammerhead not even being properly optimized (Balanced sim variant).
Plus it's just awkward to pilot with need to target/shield one direction while facing another for optimal ship system use.

Yes, player-piloted it can win against Hammerhead by using Sabots. But this applies to anything with medium Sabots, even Buffalo mk2 or Vigilance. Sabots are single use doping similar to SO, just in a different way.

Wait, the high mobility opportunistic strike ship can't challenge the strongest destroyer in a head on, no fleet or distraction duel?!
Title: Re: The Shrike
Post by: Goumindong on November 19, 2018, 12:26:52 AM
I find it quite lackluster.

Nowhere near powerful enough to challenge a Hammerhead head on and not maneuverable enough to get behind it (2 chained ability uses do not quite get you there). This is with both sides skill-less and Hammerhead not even being properly optimized (Balanced sim variant).
Plus it's just awkward to pilot with need to target/shield one direction while facing another for optimal ship system use.

Yes, player-piloted it can win against Hammerhead by using Sabots. But this applies to anything with medium Sabots, even Buffalo mk2 or Vigilance. Sabots are single use doping similar to SO, just in a different way.

The Hammerhead is the strongest 1v destroyer in the game and is a straight brawler that requires no AI skill. Of course it’s going to beat the Shrike in a duel.

The Shrike is a cheap (9 vs 12 DP compared to medusa) and efficient heavy blaster platform for player use (Medusa has cap issues with 2 but shrike with the med missile slot does a lot better). It’s not a perfect ship but it seems fine enough.

Edit: snark post alternative incoming. You know what can’t “cheese” a Hammerhead with medium sabots? A Hammerhead or a Medusa. As they don’t have a medium missile slot.
Title: Re: The Shrike
Post by: Deshara on November 19, 2018, 12:29:38 AM
Y'all, it's a light destroyer. It can't stand up to a heavy destroyer; it isn't meant to punch up, it's meant as a strike destroyer, as a light support destroyer, or as a hunter killer for taking down frigates. Understand roles and limitations
Title: Re: The Shrike
Post by: Goumindong on November 19, 2018, 12:38:33 AM
Also since I don’t want to make another thread and the Odyssey is a big shrike I figured we could talk about it here.

I love it. It has enough cap to near perms fire 2 plasma cannons and it can use the large missile for MIRVs... which turn on a dime when they split; negating the turrets tiring arc issue.

Has anyone bonked anything significant with it yet? How much damage can you do?
Title: Re: The Shrike
Post by: TaLaR on November 19, 2018, 12:58:24 AM
Wait, the high mobility opportunistic strike ship can't challenge the strongest destroyer in a head on, no fleet or distraction duel?!

Well, I said player-piloted. Which is enough to let the better ships hit above their weight.

Medusa can both defeat head on less optimized Hammerhead variants or get behind better ones with skimmer (not quite stick to engines, but enough for quick vent, gaining upper hand as result).
It also can defeat any non-carrier cruiser (or at least could in 0.81. Better flux usage by AI might curb this).

Shrike loses miserably against stock balanced Hammerhead.

Some player-piloted frigates can do it (common Lasher being one of them, though admittedly it needs SO to win against proper Hammerhead variants).

Edit: snark post alternative incoming. You know what can’t “cheese” a Hammerhead with medium sabots? A Hammerhead or a Medusa. As they don’t have a medium missile slot.

Because they don't need to. They can do it with normal variant that has long term viability (instead of being out of Sabots after 1-2 kills).

AI won't use Sabot variant properly and player has better stuff to pilot.
Title: Re: The Shrike
Post by: SCC on November 19, 2018, 01:20:28 AM
When you think about it, Shrike is just a Vigilance with point defence. In general, I find it below the trio, but not necessarily bad. The only issue is that without a heavy blaster it desperately needs missiles or support, which means it's either a limited use ship or an escort.
Title: Re: The Shrike
Post by: Embolism on November 19, 2018, 01:24:56 AM
When you think about it, Shrike is just a Vigilance with point defence.

.....

Oh God you're right.

Well not quite, but the epiphany is disquieting.
Title: Re: The Shrike
Post by: Darloth on November 19, 2018, 01:56:40 AM
Would it be better if it had a Large missile?
Title: Re: The Shrike
Post by: Embolism on November 19, 2018, 02:32:32 AM
Would it be better if it had a Large missile?

It's not meant to be a missile boat.

All I really want is for it to be faster. It's probably technically faster than the Medusa in the long run when you compare Plasma Burn to Phase Skimmer, but given it's a "light" destroyer (the only one with this designation) it should be more than a little bit faster IMO.
Title: Re: The Shrike
Post by: Draba on November 19, 2018, 03:28:17 AM
When you think about it, Shrike is just a Vigilance with point defence.

I did pilot it a bit and IMO it's more like an expensive, slow wolf that has a worse active system.
Only had a pilum for the mediums and no missile skills but 2 wolves can get 4x2 hammers or something similar anyway.
Really not a fan, just not enough punch even for antifighter tactical laser setup.
Title: Re: The Shrike
Post by: Elijah on November 19, 2018, 03:47:41 AM
I built it with a phase lance (probably should use the heavy blaster) and a Sabot SRM Pod and it works quite well actually: I can take on most other destroyers, overcharge their shield with the sabots and just do a lot of damage afterwards. I think after I change the phase lance with the heavy blaster it will be even better.

The main advantage over the medusa is perhaps the medium missile slot?
Title: Re: The Shrike
Post by: TaLaR on November 19, 2018, 04:00:25 AM
I built it with a phase lance (probably should use the heavy blaster) and a Sabot SRM Pod and it works quite well actually: I can take on most other destroyers, overcharge their shield with the sabots and just do a lot of damage afterwards. I think after I change the phase lance with the heavy blaster it will be even better.

The main advantage over the medusa is perhaps the medium missile slot?

Player-piloted and using medium Sabots even Buffalo mk2 or Vigilance can kill destroyers. This really says more about Sabots than Shrike itself.
Title: Re: The Shrike
Post by: fededevi on November 19, 2018, 04:47:27 AM
 All I really want is for it to be faster.

This.
The Medusa have more armor, better hardpoints, more flux & flux diss., more op, better active system and the same base speed. You can field 3 Medusa every 4 Shrikes.

Being so 'light' it should at least be faster than a Medusa, or maybe it is the Medusa that is too fast at 100 base speed.
Title: Re: The Shrike
Post by: Megas on November 19, 2018, 04:57:08 AM
Medusa does not need to be slower, especially with inferior shot range (and now with 700 range needlers).  Medusa stuck with only Pulse Lasers and common ballistics is mediocre.  Hammerhead (and Enforcer to a lesser extent) with common stuff is effective.
Title: Re: The Shrike
Post by: TaLaR on November 19, 2018, 05:50:53 AM
Medusa is superior to Hammerhead only when player piloted and squeezing maximum usefulness from skimmer system. There is no need to nerf it, it's Shrike that is under-performing compared to every other combat DE.
As AI ship Medusa costs 12 supply, is super rare and loses to common cost 8 Hammerhead.
Title: Re: The Shrike
Post by: Goumindong on November 19, 2018, 11:58:50 AM
When you think about it, Shrike is just a Vigilance with point defence. In general, I find it below the trio, but not necessarily bad. The only issue is that without a heavy blaster it desperately needs missiles or support, which means it's either a limited use ship or an escort.

It’s really not. The vigilance doesn’t have the cap or shields or maneuverability to fight ships straight up. It’s a harassment missile ship where the main gun should be used for rangefinding. It can be used as an assault ship but it doesn’t have the punch to be terribly effective because the only really good medium energy weapons against armor and hull are the HB and phase Lance. And it does not have the cap to run either even in bursts.

The Shrike is an assault ship. Able to quickly kill soft and semi-hard targets with ease. Against frigates it simply overpowers them with superior cap and dissipation. Against destroyers and above it can volley shields with missiles.

If you had prior played with a Medusa as an SO player main destroyer then the Shrike is probably a better option. The Medusa doesn’t have the cap to consistently run 2 HB and doesn’t have the slots to fit strong strike missiles like the Shrike does. Plus it can be hard to find 2HB (sabot pods are more common) which means that pre-colony production the Shrike is almost twice as replaceable. Sure, the Shrike only has one HB. But because it replaces the second with a zero cap weapon it got a lot more effective flux dissipation and when SO’d probably doesn’t even need full dissipation. (Which lets you balance how much secondary weapons/PD you decide to fit).

The Shrike is also 25% DP cheaper than the Medusa
Title: Re: The Shrike
Post by: TaLaR on November 19, 2018, 12:28:34 PM
It’s really not. The vigilance doesn’t have the cap or shields or maneuverability to fight ships straight up.

For spamming Sabots, it doesn't need to. Just empty you rack using ability while firing Pulse laser in process. You don't need shield or dodge when enemy is overloaded.
Sabot burst being reduced to 2 in 0.9 makes this much less efficient, but it's still good enough to kill sim Hammerhead skill-less (but probably not it's optimized variants as one could in 0.81).
Title: Re: The Shrike
Post by: Goumindong on November 19, 2018, 12:46:11 PM
It’s really not. The vigilance doesn’t have the cap or shields or maneuverability to fight ships straight up.

For spamming Sabots, it doesn't need to. Just empty you rack using ability while firing Pulse laser in process. You don't need shield or dodge when enemy is overloaded.
Sabot burst being reduced to 2 in 0.9 makes this much less efficient, but it's still good enough to kill sim Hammerhead skill-less (but probably not it's optimized variants as one could in 0.81).

Yes you can kill a Hammerhead with all your sabots. The value in being able to run a serious weapon in the medium slot is that you don’t have to use all of them. You can get the cap advantage once and then hammer it home with HB
Title: Re: The Shrike
Post by: Linnis on November 19, 2018, 05:57:58 PM
Its balanced quite well. But I feel like the hull size is too big for its stats, make it feel like its all empty inside like its hualing cargo or something.
Title: Re: The Shrike
Post by: Tei on November 20, 2018, 08:41:13 AM
Is anyone getting idiot Shrike AI sometimes? I had a Shrike ram head first into a fortress using its system a couple of times already. The last time it did it it exploded next to a friendly enforcer.
Title: Re: The Shrike
Post by: Deshara on November 20, 2018, 08:54:47 AM
AI seems to use its system off cooldown regardless of circumstances AFAIA