Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => General Discussion => Topic started by: Displasma on May 08, 2018, 02:56:48 PM

Title: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Displasma on May 08, 2018, 02:56:48 PM
I want my money back. This is taking WAY too long.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on May 08, 2018, 03:08:50 PM
Starsector's releases have always been long waits. Alex prefers quality updates, that are damn near expansions in my book, than buggy as hell quantity updates like what 98% of games devs prefer these days. And Alex IS working on the game, it is just taking a bit longer than what most people are use to.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Thaago on May 08, 2018, 03:11:13 PM
Hi! While we all want updates, please look at previous threads to see the reasons why updates are spaced far apart. To summarize: Development is faster without needing to make clean releases more often, and usually there are related features that all need to be added together to make something good.

If you want to see the progress, check out the blog posts and Alex's many posts on the forum. Development has certainly not stopped.

As it stands, releases for this game are more stable than most complete games, and that takes effort.  But because of that effort, and because of our nice community, we have a large number of high quality mods, which if you haven't already you should check out.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Piemanlives on May 08, 2018, 03:14:41 PM
Afternoon, we've had plenty of dev updates and blogs about what Alex has been working on these past few months. Please be patient.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Alex on May 08, 2018, 04:03:47 PM
Hi - sorry to hear you're disappointed! I think other replies have covered it already, but yeah, the pace of releases is the way it is for a reason, though I'd love for it to be faster. I just can't do it without sacrificing quality. The actual pace of development, though, is I think good - there's just a lot to do.

(I do want to apologize for not responding to your initial post on the forum, btw. I try to do that as much as possible, and just to keep an eye on everything here, but somethings things fall through the cracks. I do remember seeing it back then, oddly enough.)
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: arcibalde on May 08, 2018, 11:15:09 PM
@Displasma you can look at it from different perspective: product is finished and dev team is making totally free expansion  ;D  What i wanted to say is that, probably, non of us ever did complex project like this alone, code vise, (i'm almost 100% sure that Alex is coding this beast alone) and only that kind of first hand experience could give you true insight into time needed for it to be done.

Imagine someone pushing broken car and someone else walking next to him nagging about low speed  ;D
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: gozer on May 09, 2018, 02:45:41 AM
I want my money back. This is taking WAY too long.

I bought the game back in 2011 for 10$ and since then, in total I spent absolutely ridiculous ammount of time playing it. All the different builds released over the years, crazy ammount of mods for the various builds I tried ... and I had tons of fun playing. Did I expect back in 2011 that it still won't be finished in 2018? Not really. But does that bother me today? Hell no! Compared to many other games I bought over the years and then barely even played, those 10$ I spend on Starfarer (as it was named back then) was the best spent money ever ... and the "bang per buck" value is totally of the charts. The game is being developed, updates are still coming and the improvements and content has so far always been worth the (sometimes pretty long) wait.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Cosmitz on May 09, 2018, 05:23:32 AM
Each build of the game release plus its one or two hotfixes that come right after are completely playable and 'whole' experiences. They don't have 'loose ends' or blatantly missing features, and each of them can be played for their own value integrally. So technically, you bought the original game at 15$ or whatever it goes for nowadays, and have ever since gotten free expansion packs. This is not an 'early access' kind of deal, since while i'm sure Alex has a roadmap in his mind for what he wants in, i don't think there ever was a 'cut off' point for the game where it's 'totally completed, done, and out of my hands'.

In short, there is no 'game is finished', it's as much of a living work as it would get, only with a hell of a lot of respect for each proper release as to feel complete each time. I've been playing ever since the game had just the missions and every new release has added a ton of things on top. And today it's for the same price tag that it was on when it came out. I'm sure Alex would entertain a refund, and we'll still welcome you in the future to repurchase it when the game receives whatever features you consider the 'full game' to have.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: xenoargh on May 09, 2018, 05:50:01 AM
Totally agreed with what Cosmitz said above; each time, we've ended up with, well, a huge new expansion on what is already a fun game.  Is it feature-complete?  Nope; that's why it's Alpha, in the classic sense.  But each release has been polished, relatively free of bugs, and full of new things to explore.  I've never ever regretted spending money on this game and I've referred it to a lot of people. 

Moreover, Alex has never succumbed to the kind of hubris that typifies projects like these, which is always pretty amazing; usually projects that go this long go into some flavor of Developer Hell and die.  Most of us who've been here forever regard the game as partially our own, in a sense; we've all had a chance to participate and shape it to a degree that's pretty remarkable.  So, stick around, join our endless debates, enjoy the current release, and, when the next build is out, enjoy the experiences!
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: BillyRueben on May 09, 2018, 06:40:22 AM
Oh, fun, it's this thread again.... You could write a research paper on the timing and content of these threads.

Suspected reason for timing of OP's posting:    Recent blog post about UI isn't very "sexy", and is annoyed that is what is being worked on instead of something else.
Content of OP's post:                                         Unusually light in content, but it is essentially the same.
Follow up comments by other people:               Exactly the same as previous threads. I do applaud the restraint though.
Follow up by Alex:                                              Could almost be a copy/paste from previous threads. In fact, I think it would be funny if it was.
Follow up by some smartass:                             You're reading it.

And there you have it. I'll take my "A" please.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: arwan on May 09, 2018, 07:11:17 AM
you get a B for forgetting the potato and a banana for scale.

that being said, i also echo the comments of gozer as my own as well.

I want my money back. This is taking WAY too long.

I bought the game back in 2011 for 10$ and since then, in total I spent absolutely ridiculous ammount of time playing it. All the different builds released over the years, crazy ammount of mods for the various builds I tried ... and I had tons of fun playing. Did I expect back in 2011 that it still won't be finished in 2018? Not really. But does that bother me today? Hell no! Compared to many other games I bought over the years and then barely even played, those 10$ I spend on Starfarer (as it was named back then) was the best spent money ever ... and the "bang per buck" value is totally of the charts. The game is being developed, updates are still coming and the improvements and content has so far always been worth the (sometimes pretty long) wait.

i remember way back then when the game was literally just 1 system with a couple planets that you flew back and forth from. and supply fleets came into the map from the top left edge. also remember when fighters were more "ships" in how they worked. i have put more hours into the game then i could reasonably count. and have got my value out of the money i paid numerous times over. and every update is truly more like an expansion with all the content they bring than a patch like most development of games.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Sutopia on May 09, 2018, 07:39:02 AM
So you prefer having something like weekly update with tiny changes?
This is not a cheap free (and charge you 100 USD per month in microtransaction) smart phone game, either is it an on-line game.
It's stated clearly that this is a W I P project so it's offering some discount for ALPHA access.
If you EVER looked at the patch note HISTORY, you should find it always has a long update period BUT every update is IMPRESSIVE.
It's almost like having a BRAND NEW GAME every update for so much juicy things adding in each and every major patch(I mean something like 0.7 to 0.8).
What's even better you don't PAY a dime to receive your update. There are also tons of modders constantly contributing their effort and update mods so you can always have very different game experience just playing with all kinds of mods.

If you're still not persuaded I suggest you try even make a mod. You'll see how MUCH effort needed for just some simple functions to work nicely.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: frogbones on May 12, 2018, 12:18:49 PM
I totally understand you OP, I've been following and playing this game since 2011ish.  I've been frustrated, I've been elated. I've been "just release already!!"    This is  a cool game....nothing much else like it out there at all. This is a Gem...which is being cut into a beautiful jewel ever so slowly, but boy, will it shine when it's done.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Harmful Mechanic on May 12, 2018, 03:09:58 PM
Points to this latest guy for not whining 'broooooo', I guess.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: jn_xyp on May 16, 2018, 06:18:04 PM
The longer after you brought this game, the more effective it will be: you will get a whole new game in each year, with tons of new features and contents. ;D ;D
And I think even the alpha of the Starsector already had an above average degree of completion than many other "completed" games on Steam and other platforms 8)
Just be patient, I believe Alex will finally provide everyone a satisfactory result.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: StahnAileron on May 16, 2018, 09:23:17 PM
I'd rather have this "incomplete" game where each revision is fully playable than the hot mess that was the like of say, Kerbal Space Program's "v1.0" release (I use that version number VERY loosely) or the User Experience hell that is Battletech currently.

KSP - Buggy as crap on full release and has taken 3 massive updates to actually get to a stable codebase. This involved hiring a cadre of real programmers from the lot of modders that played the "game". (I use that term loosely as well since the core gameplay mechanic in KSP is just a sandbox. The "Career" mode game mechanics are a hot mess of an after-thought.) Included is a rewrite of like most of the game code and a significant update to the engine. Beyond the sandbox experience, KSP is heavily reliant on mods for any real, more typical gameplay elements.

Battletech (2018) - Gameplay is pretty solid, but I would hope so since it's based on an establish table-top game system. (Creators pof said table-top game created this computer version.) But the UI is "laggy" as hell (it can take a lot of time to switch menu screens for some reason), they put a little too much effort into "immersion" versus real-life convenience (I cannot skip transition animations that play through every time I do some common actions). I'm for artistic expression, but not when I have to waste a third of my game time looking at said expression for the umpteenth time.

I respect Alex and Starsector's development process, especially given how modern game development has evolved. (Too much "release now, fix later" IMHO.) It's a very pleasant surprise to fix a new release of Starsector. It and Factorio are my baseline for how in-dev game releases should be done. (Disclosure: Granted, I've only invested in 3 pre-release games: KSP, SS, and Factorio.)

I have no complaints: the releases are pretty much feature-complete for the stage of development they are at; Alex is engaged with the player-base, being VERY receptive to feedback and pretty transparent about his plans and decisions regarding the direction of development. (In fact, his posts about the development of SS have made it easier for me to see issues in other games more clearly, like KSP's half-hearted, disparate gameplay mechanics in its career mode.)
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on May 16, 2018, 09:55:20 PM
With Battletech I've heard that deleting old saves can help speed up the game a bit but yeah, it's pretty slow
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: StahnAileron on May 18, 2018, 11:48:24 PM
Only for the times when you're accessing the save list. (I hate the fact is ALWAYS saves a new save as well, without asking for input. Somewhat convenient, but annoying at the same time since managing saves in-game is tedious and the save directory is nowhere near intuitive to find.)

Honestly, I'm not very impressed by most of the Unity-based games I've played. Many have the same feel and vibe. For some reason, they feel slow, sluggish, or not as responsive as I'd expect. (This is compared to likes of Unreal-based games or other with a different engine.)

I was actually questioning the use of Java for SS, but Alex seems to actually care about performance. Some aspects of SS feel kinda Unity-like, but the performance is much better overall. (Garbage-collection stutter is terrible with Unity...)
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Tartiflette on May 19, 2018, 05:03:41 AM
A couple edits to the CSV to remove the audio delays and you can almost double your game speed just like that. (doesn't help with menus though, only clearing your inventory helps for that)
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on May 20, 2018, 03:46:33 AM
I remembered this game existed quite recently after buying access when it was still starfarer; basically a skeletal campaign map with the first mods like junk pirates just coming out. Suppose that was 6 years ago by now. I wouldn't particularly mind buying access again, but decided to throw a small email to the payment processor as described on the FAQ. Received a replacement access key in less than a day.

I'm pretty damn happy about it. Forgetting about a game under active (if slow) development for six years and then coming back is a real treat. I think access was 15 bucks. Always prefer to think about vidja game purchases in terms of other media (assuming one doesn't simply pirate everything). Whats the cost per hour of enjoyment? Haven't dove too deep but between the past week and years ago probably put 50-75 hours in. Boy, around 30 cents an hour for fun...you ain't gonna get that anywhere else, man. And now that there's actually vanilla content and neat mods alike, I'm gonna rack up some more hours.

Didn't wanna make a new thread or anything, just reckon it might do that Alex guy some good to hear such things, and wanted to explain my perspective.

keep it up m8
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: gotry on May 20, 2018, 05:02:15 AM
Annual schedule is a bit long for a patch interval
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Megas on May 20, 2018, 06:18:31 AM
It was $10 before 0.65, the version with food runs.

Patch intervals have become progressively longer.  It used to be several months, but less than a year.  The last one took about a year.  The one we are waiting for has exceeded that.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Sarissofoi on May 20, 2018, 07:21:09 AM
Patch intervals have become progressively longer.  It used to be several months, but less than a year.  The last one took about a year.  The one we are waiting for has exceeded that.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/mTu120Z.png)
[close]
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Tartiflette on May 21, 2018, 07:46:53 AM
It was $10 before 0.65, the version with food runs.

Patch intervals have become progressively longer.  It used to be several months, but less than a year.  The last one took about a year.  The one we are waiting for has exceeded that.
Last patch was in June, so not a year yet. (But it certainly will be by the time of release)
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Megas on May 21, 2018, 10:28:51 AM
The first 0.8 was in April, although it got a minor update in June.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: c0nr4d1c4l on May 21, 2018, 08:09:23 PM
I'm sure this has been said multiple times, buuuuuut: patience is a virtue. I've been out of the loop for quite a while (thanks to my computer commiting suicide) but this game never fails to drain time while not completely boring me due to the grind. This game has plenty of mods that give a new breath of life, and this game is still an ALPHA with a pretty big modiverse. If you can't wait then find another game to fill the void for a while, SS will always be here.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Linnis on May 21, 2018, 09:55:18 PM
Personally I am up for waiting, but I am starting to get curious what's being worked on right now. Is Alex hiding something or just busy with other stuff.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: morganja on May 21, 2018, 11:44:58 PM
Everyone of us needs to wait, this must be really worth it of our time.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: StahnAileron on May 22, 2018, 09:58:29 PM
The thing about SS I like: I await and meet new releases excited for and by the content.

The thing about something like KSP I hated: awaiting and meeting new releases with, "Will/Did they fix/implement/change x [y, and/or z] thing [yet]?" I can say the same of many v1.0 releases these days. (Staring at Battletech like that these days: fun game to play, lousy game to experience. They didn't pay much attention to UX/UI outside of the main combat system, IMHO. For a game about customizing squads of giant robots, why can I NOT save mech design configs or name individual mechs/designs?)

Factorio is a mirror of my SS experiences. (Though I admit I actually dislike the changes they made to UG Belts: I can't compress belts as easily anymore. But that's another thing altogether.)

Every SS update has been worth the new content and changes. Honestly, there weren't too many changes I was unhappy with in SS. And the few I did dislike got rectified in later versions as the gameplay mechanics evolved. (This was mainly the treatment of fighters.) It helps that SS development is pretty transparent as well. (Only Factorio seems to be on the same level to me.)

Looking forward to future releases!
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Sarissofoi on May 23, 2018, 05:47:53 AM
Do I want full release tomorrow(or even better yesterday)?
Sure.
But I gonna burned hard by Battle Brothers and how their devs finished it. Literally.
Sure I would be happy if we get new update in 15 minutes but I know that Alex do his job well and the update is worth waiting.

I have plenty of fun even now and to be honest I already had enough worth of fun. And this game getting more engaging and better with each update only making it better.

Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: TaLaR on May 23, 2018, 06:47:41 AM
But I gonna burned hard by Battle Brothers and how their devs finished it. Literally.

Yeah, that was disappointing. BB had potential to be much more.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: ChickenDinner on May 28, 2018, 05:43:01 PM
I'm going to play devil's advocate here: OP is not wrong.

There is literally endless lists of single dev. indie games which have moved at light-speed compared to this game. Huge games, games that were dropped and picked back up, games with one dude doing everything. Its the nature of the indie dev. industry.

But to argue the point, I'll quote RimWorlds single dev. on his game.

“This game can expand endlessly. That’s it’s nature. It’s not a closed story like Portal 2. It’s an open system endlessly moddable, expandable. You can always play longer, more colonists, more wealth, more colonies, more mods, again and again and again. There’s always more to want. So faced with an endless treadmill of requests, I must draw the line somewhere. But where?
"Five years. I figure five years is a decent enough place. Five years are enough for $30. Five years are enough to call a game finished.
(Of course, it’s great to suggest new things beyond that, but to demand a developer work more than five years on one game for one sale is not, in my opinion, reasonable. In truth I think any dev who does two years has earned his keep; five years is getting into ridiculous territory. Not that I’m complaining of course; I’ve always liked working on RimWorld.)

“It won’t be perfect, of course. Nothing ever is. And I won’t even be finished with it. But – it’ll be finished.” -Tynan Sylvester

That guy is totally right. 5 years is getting crazy for any game. Half a decade. I'm going to be an ass and say that if you expect backers of this game to be patient at this point, you have a poor concept of time.

From what I can gather, this game looks like its been in dev. for 7-8 years. That -is- a long time. I think maybe Kenshi (Lo-Fi Games), UnReal World (Sami Maaranen, Erkka Lehmus) and Dwarf Fortress (Tarn Adams) are the only indie games that I know of that have been in dev. longer.

And two of those games the devs. came right out and said they would working on the game for the rest of their lives, and as of now have no intention of stopping. Kenshi is shooting from 1.0 relatively soon.

"When its ready" is not realistic in reference to Mr. Sylvesters quote, because it will never be ready. An artist is never "ready" to end a piece of work, but he can finish it.

My advice to the dev. is to decide on a date, take a break, come back and strap in and get it into -beta-. Then set a goal window for 1.0. At the current rate of patches, I'd assume 3 years. Or add on the purchase screen that you're pulling a Dwarf Fortress and will work on this game forever.

Great game. Good luck to the dev.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Cyan Leader on May 28, 2018, 07:38:24 PM
We should already be on pace for a 1.0 in the near feature. After industry/colonies are in there aren't any major features that we have been made aware of left. I expect the next major patch to be .9 and then after some more core features (endgame content?) and whatever else Alex has in store for us, 1.0. Thus, the game should be completed in about 2 years. Of course I don't speak for Alex, but this seems to be the case for me.

Alex always said that this game was his life work and something he was meant to make, I'd love if he continued working on it forever like the devs you mentioned, but he might have other projects.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Alex on May 28, 2018, 08:50:58 PM
@ChickenDinner: hi, and welcome to the forum!

"When its ready" is not realistic in reference to Mr. Sylvesters quote, because it will never be ready. An artist is never "ready" to end a piece of work, but he can finish it.

I get that, but "when it's ready" means something fairly specific to me. It's not like I've been adding random stuff as we go - there's a set of things I'd like to have in the game, and I've been aiming for it really since the very first release. Naturally some things evolve or simply become more clear over time but overall development has been pretty consistent with the original vision.

Of course it's always possible to add more things or just tinker, but that doesn't always make the game better, and I feel like I'm quite capable of drawing the line on feature creep and the like :)

Great game. Good luck to the dev.

Thank you!


After industry/colonies are in there aren't any major features that we have been made aware of left. I expect the next major patch to be .9 and then after some more core features (endgame content?) and whatever else Alex has in store for us, 1.0. Thus, the game should be completed in about 2 years. Of course I don't speak for Alex, but this seems to be the case for me.

Without commenting on the timeframe, this is, in rough terms, pretty accurate.

Alex always said that this game was his life work and something he was meant to make, I'd love if he continued working on it forever like the devs you mentioned, but he might have other projects.

How it goes post 1.0 depends on a lot of things, including how sales go. Will just have to see once we get there!
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on May 29, 2018, 12:35:54 AM
How it goes post 1.0 depends on a lot of things, including how sales go. Will just have to see once we get there!
*buys 10 more copies at 1.0 release*
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Cyan Leader on May 29, 2018, 04:37:17 AM
I hope you nail the Steam release like Factorio did, it wasn't that long ago (post Steam indie golden era) and it was immensely profitable, even though the game was quite popular already prior to it. Maybe a thing that you can do already is create a game page so people can follow and add it to their wishlists, but not buy it. A potential problem I thought is that since your game is getting traction someone could right now create a page for a random/low effort game and call it Starsector on Steam to trick people, so it might be a good idea to do this sooner rather than later. However, I'm not sure how Steam supports long term pages without an actual game release that is also being sold outside of their platform.

As for post 1.0, I completely understand that call, but I suggest a least one major patch with some new content post release, to get people talking about the game again like it happened with Terraria and many others. Also don't be afraid of releasing paid expansion content if to comes to it. I know it's a touchy topic but I believe it'd be beneficial to both you and the game in the long term.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: BillyRueben on May 29, 2018, 06:44:17 AM
Maybe a thing that you can do already is create a game page so people can follow and add it to their wishlists, but not buy it.

Please don't do that. We'd see this "When is release?" thread x10 as often.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Philder on May 29, 2018, 11:51:18 AM
Please don't do that. We'd see this "When is release?" thread x10 as often.

That's easily addressed, and not at all an important enough a concern to be worth the loss in sales and community.

Not that I'm suggesting Alex should do this or that. Just saying that 'haters' and 'complainers' are pretty much unavoidable in anything with a large enough number of people to be called a community. If you're afraid of a bit of potential forum litter, you should probably stay away from public communities in general.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Linnis on May 31, 2018, 12:44:44 PM
There is no way this should be put on steam before it is finished. Majority of potential buyers will judge the game based on what is available, not what will be coming. Waiting a few years till the game is complete will vastly generate greater income and success.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Igncom1 on May 31, 2018, 02:01:21 PM
There is no way this should be put on steam before it is finished. Majority of potential buyers will judge the game based on what is available, not what will be coming. Waiting a few years till the game is complete will vastly generate greater income and success.

Agree from here.

Far too many games on steam use 'early access' or 'open beta' to avoid the fact that the game was released unfinished and likely never will be.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: torbes on May 31, 2018, 04:38:30 PM
Waiting patiently, however I do think part of the pain is there's nothing else (modern) quite like Starsector, afaik.

Really just wanted to ask what was wrong with Battle Brothers? I got it after release and quite enjoyed it, though I will say the later game kinda peters off and combat gets repetitive.

Cheers!
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Joshee on May 31, 2018, 05:32:13 PM
The OP has a point and should be refunded. I remember when i first purchased this game way back when i read this in the F.A.Q. section. this is false advertising.

When is Starsector coming out?

When it is ready. We are not Blizzard though, so this doesn’t mean 5+ years.  Naturally, our entire team is committed to releasing Starsector as soon as possible (for one, we really want to play it ourselves!), and we are hoping the community will take part in that process as well. To that end, we’ve released an alpha version, with it and all subsequent versions available as part preordering the game.


Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Alex on May 31, 2018, 05:56:36 PM
Yeah, that certainly was in the FAQ. The one time I mentioned anything at all about a timeframe; something I've been careful to avoid all along the way, except for that instance of it. IIRC it was intended as a bit of a joke (in line with the general tone of the FAQ at that point) that I'd forgotten about for a while.

I'm also sure that if one digs through what the website says or said at any point in the past, one can find other inaccuracies or things that changed along the way. Of course I try to keep those to a minimum, but that's just the nature of the beast when it comes to a large, long-term project. Even so, my apologies!

Well, in any case - hi, and welcome to the forum :)
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Dri on May 31, 2018, 08:08:56 PM
I think we could at least do with some patch notes after all this time...they don't even have to be exhaustive for now, just SOMETHING.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Alex on May 31, 2018, 08:52:38 PM
That's fair enough, I'd like to actually put some out pretty soon. Proooobably after the next blog post, which I'm hoping will be soon, assuming everything goes well with the stuff I'm currently doing. Or possibly before that, if it doesn't.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Null Ganymede on June 01, 2018, 03:04:16 AM
In the meantime adding a few mods (Nexerelin, Dynasector, some hulls and factions to taste) makes the game feature-complete. Any future patches will feel more like expansions, so the polish is appreciated :)
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Cyan Leader on June 01, 2018, 07:50:01 AM
With all due respect, they don't. They are excellent addons though.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Shuka on June 01, 2018, 09:49:38 AM
Everytime I come back to this game, a bunch of things have been added and I lose myself in it for a couple months, getting probably another 100 hours of entertainment out of it. I've noticed I play completely differently than many other people who write about their experiences, and each run is different than the last.

Somebody mentioned in this thread that if you can't handle toxic communities you shouldn't be part of online communities. That explicit gatekeeping was very funny to read, and I'm glad starsector is doing its own thing.

Game publishing these days is terrible. DLC's is paying for content that should have been in release, and lootboxes are literally gambling. We could dig a little deeper and find some really dysfunctional development practices. Anyone advocating corporate publishing methods is a very well trained consumer, hooked into this "give us everything, your money, your friend list, your data, your psychological profile."

Starsector is an incredible product, and I'm proud of its development. There is plenty of corporate developing going on out there, if starsector isn't babying you enough then go give rockstar 10$ every month for another hat for your avatar.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: eidolad on June 19, 2018, 08:05:46 PM
reading this thread made me jump off the fence and buy the game

substantive testimonials don't lie in a time when there are a lot of noise between "a good or great game" and "customer who wants it" (hi Steam I'm looking at you)
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: snooze on June 26, 2018, 07:33:08 AM
While I do understand that it takes time to develop a game like this, I think there should come a time when enough is enough and the game has to be wrapped up. Don't do a Chris Roberts and develop this game forever because that would be a mistake. You lot might not care because you've invested the most precious currency of them all - time - but the rest of us standing on the sideline would rather see closure.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: TaLaR on June 26, 2018, 08:04:20 AM
While I do understand that it takes time to develop a game like this, I think there should come a time when enough is enough and the game has to be wrapped up. Don't do a Chris Roberts and develop this game forever because that would be a mistake. You lot might not care because you've invested the most precious currency of them all - time - but the rest of us standing on the sideline would rather see closure.

I'd rather have the opposite - steady stream of early releases followed by expansions.

Battle Brothers did exactly what you imply - decided that some point is enough and stopped at that, releasing only few minor patches and a mini-dlc after. Despite having ton of untapped potential for expansions/deepening of game systems. Devs had their reasons (financial ones were implied), but this was hardly optimal outcome for game fans.

Comparison to Star Citizen isn't fair either - SS had playable *and worth playing* releases for quite a few years already. And that's without milking fans by selling virtual ships in an unreleased game.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: djcrovley on June 27, 2018, 01:47:31 PM
Lets face it, first 18 months of waiting for this game to be release are painful, after that u just sit and check page every 2 weeks and hope to play it before 2020.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Sarissofoi on June 27, 2018, 02:54:31 PM
Somebody mention Battle Brothers??
<angry noises>
Spoiler
Battle Brothers is a game that could easily steal disappointment of the decade for me.
its not bad game per see - actually pretty decent but at the same moment it have plenty of strange designs and a tons of wasted potential.
Encrypted files and lack of any way to mod it is the biggest one.
I still ponder how at anybody could or can think it was good idea. (I don't even...)

SS on the other hand have steady(even if slow) updates and lively modding scene and to make minor tweaks or mods all you can need is a Notepad++ and GIMP.
Imagine that Alex would keep all files under key and say right now say final release is in July make some half hearten outposts and that's it.
That how final BB update happen.
[close]
<more angry noises>


Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Skyrage on June 29, 2018, 12:55:44 AM
Long development times is not necessarily a bad thing.

But on the other hand having your customers dying of old age before the game is completed isn't all that great either.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: TJJ on June 29, 2018, 02:37:05 AM
My only worry is that hardware will outstrip what the game supports.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on June 29, 2018, 08:42:51 AM
My only worry is that hardware will outstrip what the game supports.
Yeah, I think Apple is dropping iOS support for java?
https://twitter.com/amosolov/status/995010382862405632
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Hamerton9 on June 30, 2018, 01:40:11 AM
The long wait is worth it my friend.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Dark.Revenant on July 03, 2018, 11:40:42 AM
Apple is actually dropping OpenGL support, which is the bigger issue.  You can run the game on a newer version of Java - there might be minor issues, but it'll still probably run.  Starsector would have to run in an OpenGL-to-Metal adapter interface, which will significantly hurt performance.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: xenoargh on July 03, 2018, 01:22:58 PM
Well, LWJGL now supports Vulkan...
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Dark.Revenant on July 03, 2018, 04:58:42 PM
Who cares?  Apple won't support Vulkan either.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Kirschbra on July 10, 2018, 10:36:08 AM
Totally agree! couldn't have said it better my self!!!  Just about everyday I'm checking the web page to see that July above June, just hoping and hoping that when July pops it will be a release!!!  This next one is going to be FANTASTIC!

I want my money back. This is taking WAY too long.

I bought the game back in 2011 for 10$ and since then, in total I spent absolutely ridiculous ammount of time playing it. All the different builds released over the years, crazy ammount of mods for the various builds I tried ... and I had tons of fun playing. Did I expect back in 2011 that it still won't be finished in 2018? Not really. But does that bother me today? Hell no! Compared to many other games I bought over the years and then barely even played, those 10$ I spend on Starfarer (as it was named back then) was the best spent money ever ... and the "bang per buck" value is totally of the charts. The game is being developed, updates are still coming and the improvements and content has so far always been worth the (sometimes pretty long) wait.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Dogthing on July 14, 2018, 08:11:25 AM
it's starting to feel like by the time we get 1.0, modern computers will be super advanced techno-organic jelly sacs that a surgeon has to massage into the surface of your brain and to run Starsector we'll have to risk permanent insanity trying to run third party emulation software
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Megas on July 14, 2018, 10:36:25 AM
I wonder how big mainstream screens will get by then.  If people can get cheap 4K screens or bigger by the time Starsector is officially finished, then combat range will appear awfully short, which ships appearing to kiss each other to fight like classic arcade game Joust.  Game needs more viable long-ranged combat.  With a big enough screen, you cannot target onscreen enemies because they exceed ship's detection radius and are inside fog-of-war.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Weltall on July 14, 2018, 11:48:40 AM
To me, this game's "end" will come only after the modding community will become dry. Even if 0.9 would be the last release (God forbid) and eventually modders would too come to complete their mods, I will still in the future pick this game up and play, as I have been since I found it.

Sadly here patience can make people see the delay of a full (or beta) release as something good or something bad. Although admittedly anyone that is still aboard the ship, must be in one or another way enjoying the ride, even if it is the hope to see it complete. I myself am on the side of people that feel that my money have more than being paid for, thanks to the continues updates of the game and the team that give their time for it, as much as all the modders that selflessly from my perspective have been contributing greatly in how wonderful the game has been at any version I have played it. They for sure have every right to hope for a final release of the game, so they can come to a conclusion that will know will remain viable for users to come.

Personally the previous year I booted up 0.6.5.2, only so I could enjoy some specific mods. To me, older versions (back to 0.5.4.1a at least) just register in my mind as a different game mode, simpler and/or easier.

As a final thought you, when I saw 0.9a patch notes up in the news, first thing that passed through my mind was "so close". That to me translated as Starsector is soon to be a final step away, from what Alex always wanted it to be, as a base game at least. I bought the game fully prepared that it might never reach a complete 1.0 release (thanks to my experience with Steam), but here I am now thinking I am definitely getting the complete Starsector.

Bless Alex, the people that help him and all the modders, along with the whole community that helps in their way.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Igncom1 on July 14, 2018, 12:12:19 PM
To me, this game's "end" will come only after the modding community will become dry. Even if 0.9 would be the last release (God forbid) and eventually modders would too come to complete their mods, I will still in the future pick this game up and play, as I have been since I found it.

Sadly here patience can make people see the delay of a full (or beta) release as something good or something bad. Although admittedly anyone that is still aboard the ship, must be in one or another way enjoying the ride, even if it is the hope to see it complete. I myself am on the side of people that feel that my money have more than being paid for, thanks to the continues updates of the game and the team that give their time for it, as much as all the modders that selflessly from my perspective have been contributing greatly in how wonderful the game has been at any version I have played it. They for sure have every right to hope for a final release of the game, so they can come to a conclusion that will know will remain viable for users to come.

Personally the previous year I booted up 0.6.5.2, only so I could enjoy some specific mods. To me, older versions (back to 0.5.4.1a at least) just register in my mind as a different game mode, simpler and/or easier.

As a final thought you, when I saw 0.9a patch notes up in the news, first thing that passed through my mind was "so close". That to me translated as Starsector is soon to be a final step away, from what Alex always wanted it to be, as a base game at least. I bought the game fully prepared that it might never reach a complete 1.0 release (thanks to my experience with Steam), but here I am now thinking I am definitely getting the complete Starsector.

Bless Alex, the people that help him and all the modders, along with the whole community that helps in their way.

Yeah, the Starsector Expanded Universe is incredibly enjoyable.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Sarissofoi on July 15, 2018, 05:02:08 AM
If not we then our children will see the full version.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Kirschbra on July 16, 2018, 09:49:32 AM
I think we can all agree, I have more faith that this will be finished long before bannerlord, lolol
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Weltall on July 16, 2018, 02:55:23 PM
Bannerlord team has it tougher though, as they have reached to a point that the money they have gained through the original M&B, will "soon" get depleted. I do not act like I understand how their financial works, as much as I just remember reading a thread and a lot of people talking about it. They have to finish it within the upcoming years, be it they sell it complete or in alpha stage. They do not seem have much choice.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Sarissofoi on July 17, 2018, 01:48:33 AM
Bannerlord crew was arrested for their guelinst sympathy and now Talesworld is manned by Edrogan crooks.
Its vaporware now.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Shrugger on July 17, 2018, 02:19:53 AM
IMHO Bannerlord was too big in Scope. They could've made Warband in a new engine, or just made incremental improvements to Warband...but right now they seem to be doing too much at once.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Kirschbra on July 17, 2018, 09:45:24 AM
Thread successfully derailed!
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: BillyRueben on July 17, 2018, 10:34:07 AM
I'm honestly shocked that the v1.0 stamp wasn't put on the game years ago, and everything we are getting now would be paid expansions. The game has had a complete gameplay loop for a few years now.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Sarissofoi on July 17, 2018, 12:19:09 PM
I'm honestly shocked that the v1.0 stamp wasn't put on the game years ago, and everything we are getting now would be paid expansions. The game has had a complete gameplay loop for a few years now.
But where are the outposts> Did it have outposts?
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: BillyRueben on July 17, 2018, 01:33:04 PM
My point being that the game could have been released as a v1.0, and most would have been satisfied with the price and wouldn't have batted an eye. My point being that people who feel that they are entitled to harass someone who has been pouring his heart and soul in to a game for what others in his same place would have charged significantly more for is asinine, and I really hate seeing it.
Title: Re: When are you going to finish this game or even release a new patch?
Post by: Megas on July 20, 2018, 07:50:49 AM
The main thing the game needs to be finished is a final win or lose condition that ends the game, or at least flags your character as a *WINNER* (like in Angband).  We do not have that yet.

Aside from that, the early game needs to be easier.  It is brutal.