Looks good so far, quite a lot of content for first release so I commend you on that. ;D
I like the look of the flak cannon. It reminds me of an anchor...
Quick question: Would people like a brief set of tips/advice in the OP on how to fly and fight the introduced ships? They are highly unique in combat, and may require a push in the right direction to function adequately. Or, would players prefer to leave the proper usage of these vessels to the same mystery as the rest of the mod, and discover it themselves by trial and error?
Why not put it in a spoiler tab thingy like others do? That way if we want to know we can see, if we want to figure it out, then we can lookToo bad this isn't Github or I'd add a :thumbsup: to your post. Instead, have this reply wherein I say "+1".
Why not put it in a spoiler tab thingy like others do? That way if we want to know we can see, if we want to figure it out, then we can lookToo bad this isn't Github or I'd add a :thumbsup: to your post. Instead, have this reply wherein I say "+1".
This honestly is a really cool mod, and i hope you finish it soon!
I hope the scales of the ships are little bigger, but other than that it seems pretty good!
Keep it up :)
I've only played with them in the test mission for a bit, but nothing seems especially over- or underpowered.
The Reliant can probably use a reduction in supply usage per month and for deployment. It needs to take some damage to fight, and has no missiles.
Glad you like it! :D What exactly do you mean by the scales of the ships btw? If you're asking if there will be cruisers and capital -sized ships in future, then yes I do have plans for those.
I was just thinking that there were a little to many guns for what it was, but i read a little more and figured out that's kinda normal for what it was.
I got another suggestion, you could make ships based on real navy ships! Like you could do an example such as: http://www.naval-history.net/Photo07mlAbdiel1NPBobHanley.jpg It could be in your style but along the lines of it. That would be cool!
Nice to see this still going. Will definitely try out the update.
Also, it would be nice to have more of a proper engagement mission. It would be more indicative of how they function together when facing a similarly numbered force. It would also be a good way to put some lore ingame.
SpoilerIm pretty excited for this group of ships, particularly going into .8, as since ironclads has been discontinued there arent any real broadside centric ships around. So.. I took the time to screw with it, and see how things play out.
Most of this feedback is from the point of view of someone trying to find setups to solo the introduction mission using the battleline destroyer in various fits, trying to stick as much as possible to in-faction weapons. (also, starsector+ I think is the only mod that changes anything installed). I did do some fiddling with the simulator as well.
Taking things roughly in teh same order as the OP, for my organization's sake:
Kirb rockets felt okay. I dont think it was actually stated on them that they were rockets, which surprised me at first. The destroyer's missile mounts were awful (read: not on the broadside) which made them difficult to use.
Goshawk missile seems alright. Permanent reloading on a light slot is really strong though, so some stock ships might be really excited about this.
Ares torp is whatever. I dont like torps very much..
Light flak gun is 10/10. I love flak on small mounts, it feels like the only thing that can deal with missiles. With that said, it deals with missiles far too well, as flak tends to do.
Hades gun (and medium version) feels alright. The turret versions turn really fast though, not sure what the numbers are on that. Between their turn speed and their range, explosive bullets tend to be the first thing to hit an enemy that gets nearby. Which is kinda iffy if they have shields at all, but hey, thats just me being bad at managing guns.
I feel like I really cant get behind the cascade autocannon. For the faction's primary kinetic weapon system, it feels very underwhelming and just kinda not actually able to do anything. The standard heavy autocannon preformed better than it in a couple trials. Primarily, the weapon's range seemed like a big issue, at 700 range it is shorter than the TSA explosive options, which feels weird. I am also very used to a slightly different combat model, as most of the time I play the game its been under Project Ironclads, which as a TC gets to do fun things with everything. With that said though, It might be an idea to reload the cascade autocannon in magazines - If it reloaded 12 shots at a time 10 times a minute (for the same total bullets/minute it has now) it might feel better off. In general though, I feel like it deals small burst to begin with (720 total damage, over the course of ~1.2s). Again, compared to the heavy autocannon, it too quickly just becomes a ~120 dps medium gun.
Another point on this - from what I understand I dont think the special ability of the mod benefits this at all. Higher rof just means it burns through ammo faster, but still deals the same somewhat low dps. This is probably why I saw such marked difference with a standard weapon.
And uhh.. The Electra mortar thing,,, You can nearly solo the entire mission on one of the frigates with two of those attached. Its a bit strong. Im not sure how aoe falloffs work as far as modding, but its inaccuracy doesnt matter when its explosion radius rivals most planets. its only 'downside' is that stray asteroids can trigger it, but its really hard to mess up its long range + good dps + forgiving accuracy. I feel like the main thing keeping this weapon from being stupidly good is that the base TSA ships are slow. Glacially slow.
Which really brings me to the ships as a whole seem kinda weird. They cant keep speed with a ship a size level above them due to zero flux speed boost. The battleline frigate is 150, compared to a lasher's 120 .. Let alone a wolf's 150 base. Or others even higher. Its probably actually the most competitive, given that its the only frigate in the fleet that doesnt get outrun by a hammerhead. A ship that cant run from anything should be probably be expected to out-brawl/out-survive whatever catches up to it so it can get away, or blow the other one up, and I really dont feel like the ships here can. The light slot flak gives them a lot of staying power due to their ability to ignore missiles, but I feel like they need a little more than that.
The bomber feels uh.. Terrible. Ive never been a huge fan of bombers in the game, but they seem really reluctant to shoot their load, and often its useless load anyway. The fighters seem like generic fighters though which are alright. Do they also not get the zero flux speed though? that would be kinda awful for them if they didnt.
Uh.. Vague tldr: The ships seem overall to lack staying power(possibly purely speed related, possibly defense stat/flux related). The cascade autocannon is awful. The hades is probably *slightly* too good, if only for its range. Flak is great.[close]
Im pretty excited for this group of ships, particularly going into .8, as since ironclads has been discontinued there arent any real broadside centric ships around. So.. I took the time to screw with it, and see how things play out.
Most of this feedback is from the point of view of someone trying to find setups to solo the introduction mission using the battleline destroyer in various fits, trying to stick as much as possible to in-faction weapons. (also, starsector+ I think is the only mod that changes anything installed). I did do some fiddling with the simulator as well.
Taking things roughly in teh same order as the OP, for my organization's sake:
Kirb rockets felt okay. I dont think it was actually stated on them that they were rockets, which surprised me at first. The destroyer's missile mounts were awful (read: not on the broadside) which made them difficult to use.
Goshawk missile seems alright. Permanent reloading on a light slot is really strong though, so some stock ships might be really excited about this.
Ares torp is whatever. I dont like torps very much..
Light flak gun is 10/10. I love flak on small mounts, it feels like the only thing that can deal with missiles. With that said, it deals with missiles far too well, as flak tends to do.
Hades gun (and medium version) feels alright. The turret versions turn really fast though, not sure what the numbers are on that. Between their turn speed and their range, explosive bullets tend to be the first thing to hit an enemy that gets nearby. Which is kinda iffy if they have shields at all, but hey, thats just me being bad at managing guns.
I feel like I really cant get behind the cascade autocannon. For the faction's primary kinetic weapon system, it feels very underwhelming and just kinda not actually able to do anything. The standard heavy autocannon preformed better than it in a couple trials. Primarily, the weapon's range seemed like a big issue, at 700 range it is shorter than the TSA explosive options, which feels weird. I am also very used to a slightly different combat model, as most of the time I play the game its been under Project Ironclads, which as a TC gets to do fun things with everything. With that said though, It might be an idea to reload the cascade autocannon in magazines - If it reloaded 12 shots at a time 10 times a minute (for the same total bullets/minute it has now) it might feel better off. In general though, I feel like it deals small burst to begin with (720 total damage, over the course of ~1.2s). Again, compared to the heavy autocannon, it too quickly just becomes a ~120 dps medium gun.
Another point on this - from what I understand I dont think the special ability of the mod benefits this at all. Higher rof just means it burns through ammo faster, but still deals the same somewhat low dps. This is probably why I saw such marked difference with a standard weapon.
And uhh.. The Electra mortar thing,,, You can nearly solo the entire mission on one of the frigates with two of those attached. Its a bit strong. Im not sure how aoe falloffs work as far as modding, but its inaccuracy doesnt matter when its explosion radius rivals most planets. its only 'downside' is that stray asteroids can trigger it, but its really hard to mess up its long range + good dps + forgiving accuracy. I feel like the main thing keeping this weapon from being stupidly good is that the base TSA ships are slow. Glacially slow.
Which really brings me to the ships as a whole seem kinda weird. They cant keep speed with a ship a size level above them due to zero flux speed boost. The battleline frigate is 150, compared to a lasher's 120 .. Let alone a wolf's 150 base. Or others even higher. Its probably actually the most competitive, given that its the only frigate in the fleet that doesnt get outrun by a hammerhead. A ship that cant run from anything should be probably be expected to out-brawl/out-survive whatever catches up to it so it can get away, or blow the other one up, and I really dont feel like the ships here can. The light slot flak gives them a lot of staying power due to their ability to ignore missiles, but I feel like they need a little more than that.
The bomber feels uh.. Terrible. Ive never been a huge fan of bombers in the game, but they seem really reluctant to shoot their load, and often its useless load anyway. The fighters seem like generic fighters though which are alright. Do they also not get the zero flux speed though? that would be kinda awful for them if they didnt.
Uh.. Vague tldr: The ships seem overall to lack staying power(possibly purely speed related, possibly defense stat/flux related). The cascade autocannon is awful. The hades is probably *slightly* too good, if only for its range. Flak is great.
(Stuck the quote in a spoiler for my own peace of mind)
@Lancefighter: Thanks a million for giving me your thoughts on this! :D I'm really glad that there's a great mix here of points that I agree with, have some qualms about and disagree with, so to keep things organized (as I appreciate you did too) I'll respond in the same order.
KIRB Launcher: Yep, apologies if it wasn't clear the projectiles are unguided. I'll need to attend to that. They're roughly based on a weapon concept I had a long time ago but want to reserve for a future missile-centric mod, which was effectively an Annihilator Rocket Launcher but for Kinetic damage. Comparatively the KIRB launcher is a cheaper, lower-damage version of that concept, but with some additional EMP damage to make them a little more desireable (they're good for support, but don't really have the punch for much else).
As for their positioning on the Vengeance... Any ideas? :-[ I don't really want to move the physical turret mounts, but I think I shot myself in the foot when I placed them side-by-side on the sprite... Do you think they'd be better facing more to either side, or with a wider firing arc?
Goshawk ASM Launcher: The objective here was an interesting but easy-to-use Harpoon analogue that most mods seem to have these days, to perform as the "standard" missile weapon of choice. Originally it was available as a 5-shot launcher with a slow-ish reload (3 seconds), but it felt... Clunky. I converted it to an autoloader so it could be a true fire support weapon (also suggested by it's respectable range), and at the same time lowered its damage - Do you think it's overpowered? Bear in mind it can only fire once every 30 seconds (without Fast Missile Racks), which is slower than the Salamander, and does only slightly more damage than a Harpoon if it actually hits; Not sure how much testing you did on it, but it's pretty mediocre against small targets, which I feel balances it fairly well.
Ares-class Torpedo: I just wanted something huge to punish the biggest ships. 8) It's half again as much damage as a Reaper, has a higher top speed, better armour, and extended range. Hopefully this is balanced by it's slow acceleration (you'd be surprised how hard it can be to aim without a little practice) and it's obscene OP cost (4 for a single shot!).
If torpedoes aren't your thing - and they certainly aren't everyone's - then hopefully you found other things in the mod that more match your preference. Of course the ships in the mod do prefer a highly specific playstyle... But we'll get to that.
Light Flak Gun: You're not the only one who thinks it could possibly use a nerf. :P It does kinda delete missiles. On the other hand it's pretty useless against fighters, but that's a given, so maybe it does need a [slight] reduction in DPS. I don't want to raise its OP cost because it's supposed to be a standard PD weapon, not an amazing one.
Hades Gun: Definitely a niche weapon. I understand the problem of having HE weapons longer range than Kinetics - this one's intentionally... Backwards. It's one of the first weapons I created for the mod, and I wanted something that had better range and accuracy than the Light Assault Gun for a small ballistic mount. The Hades was what came from that.
As for turret rotation speed, I'm being fairly generous with that statistic for most weapons in the mod since they're designed to be used on broadside ships that don't have many hardpoints. I suppose I could just give the built-in hullmod all the ships have a buff to turret rotation speed, but that's starting to get way too busy as it is, so for the moment we'll stick with a higher baseline.
Cascade Autocannon: Another one that I'm well aware needs a bit of work. As you say, the fact that it's reload time is independent of the Autoloader Flux Sink system's ballistic rate-of-fire buff means it doesn't complement it at all, and this was definitely not intentional, and almost certainly will be altered in the near future. Using a clip system though... Hmm. There's a thought. I've been considering having a go with that reload method, so maybe the Cascade can be my guinea pig for that experimentation.
The idea of it was high burst damage but low sustained damage. If its initial/alpha damage is higher than the Heavy Autocannon, but its sustained damage is worse, then it's working as intended! Even so, maybe it needs a damage-per-shot increase. * Adds to list of "Things to Try Out" *
Electra EM Mortar: Hehe. Yeah, I may have been feeling a little evil when I designed this... ;D Even I know it's a niche weapon, which is why I think the total number of variants in the mod that use it is 1. It's killer against missiles and fighters, definitely, and it does have a wickedly large AOE field. This one's probably on top of the list of things that need a nerf.
As for the ships: Believe it or not, the slow speed is a key balancing act to counter their other (what I see, at least, as) huge benefits in close-combat. Specifically the battleline ships, they aren't really designed to back down. Perhaps that's a mistake on my part, what with my lack of real-world combat experience (I haven't read enough of it...), but with a little practice, again, you'll find they do wonders. I'm not rightly sure why you've been finding them hard to brawl with: Do you find yourself not having the damage to beat an opponent down, or are you getting surrounded easily? Needless to say, the ships are supposed to form a "battle line", and work best in groups rather than solo.
The fighters might need some work. I must confess myself as disappointed as you with the Encounter Torpedo Bombers. I have no idea what their AI trouble is - I mean, when it comes down to it, they're basically a Dagger with less speed and more armour! I haven't the foggiest how to better them without making them OP; the last thing I want to do is have a fighter carrying an Ares! :o
The Leadspitter is fun. No questions asked. :) It's slower than a lot of competitors, but it'll ruin to day of anything without decent armour.
Also the new fighter coming in the next update - called the Sidewinder (showcased in the above video link) - is hella fun. You may like that one a little more.
And a TLDR for you my good sir: You're on the money with a fair amount of your inadvertant speculations, and a lot of your issues with weapons are issues I also have and am now even more prepared to address. The ship combat playstyle is made to be challenging, and is extremely niche - it won't be for everyone, that's for sure, and it will take some practice, but I've spent quite some time playing around with the mod (why wouldn't I!?) and you can perform some epic plays if you get things right.
Between you and me, I'm also thinking about:
- An alternative to shields for the TSA ships (like Exigency or Knights Templar have) but I'm not yet sure how to code that - long term goal.
- Converting the Flux Sink ship systems into a built-in hullmod(s) that constantly scales flux venting and ballistic fire rate/whatever with flux level, saving the ship system slot for even more epic things.
When it comes down to it, for TSA ships I want flux to be less of "Oh damn, I have to back off!" and a little more "YES! Fill the power bar and UNLEASH FURY!!!" ;D Any thoughts you'd like to throw down on that?
... My word I use a lot of emoticons, don't I? :P
One of the big points of TSA ships is that they have unusually low vents but fairly high capacitance, which is done deliberately so players can get better use out of the Flux Sink systems.
Im pretty excited for this group of ships, particularly going into .8, as since ironclads has been discontinued there arent any real broadside centric ships around.I think Tartiflette and his ORA faction would like to have a word... :P
Im pretty excited for this group of ships, particularly going into .8, as since ironclads has been discontinued there arent any real broadside centric ships around.I think Tartiflette and his ORA faction would like to have a word... :P
Im pretty excited for this group of ships, particularly going into .8, as since ironclads has been discontinued there arent any real broadside centric ships around.I think Tartiflette and his ORA faction would like to have a word... :P
Yeah, I certainly don't have the monopoly on broadside ships. Also, just a disclaimer, I've never played Project Ironclads, so I have no idea what its "complete overhaul of the game" actually entails.
Red things explode more, everyone knows that.
Red things explode more, everyone knows that.
Da red ones go faster. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedOnesGoFaster) Yellow makez da biggest booms. ;)
Nexralin comparability soon?
Hey, i am working on backport of TSA to latest Ironclads. The reasons:
- It nicely fits the style.
- My Intel Atom @home barely fails to handle stock SS, however Ironclads+VNS is playable.
I do it for my own sake, but can publish it when ready if you allow.
The new fighters look gorgeous. Also, how much coding know-how did you need for this mod?
My idea for a mod consists of missile heavy ships with spammy missiles that avoid PD at the cost of range and/or payload.
I'm talking a Macross Missile Massacre with each ship.
Too bad I can't sprite, kitbash, or properly code. (yet)
@cjusa If you're thinking of learning to mod, my advice is to look through the stock game files bit by bit to understand how things fit together, what values can be assigned to what keys, how to reference files and folder paths, etc. Also looking at some simpler mods (Tore Up Plenty is a good one) to get the gist of mod-specific things.Thanks man.
As for spriting, that all comes down to practise. If you don't want to try spriting or kitbashing yourself, there's always the Spiral Arms Sprite Dump (or whatever it's called) where people publicly share kitbashed ships for anyone to use.
That's my self-taught amateur advice anyway. ;)
Thanks man.
Are you planning to add any slow shooting, high damage weapons?
That would really add to the battleship and cruiser feels!
(Disclaimer: I have not played this mod! This is due to my computer being broken. So if there is a cannon that can do that, i may never have seen it, Sorry!)
kind of confused about the mod...is this one of those ship/weapon mods that doesn't add systems? when reading your description i assumed it was purely a mission mod.It's being released early to test the ships. (Demo for a reason)
kind of confused about the mod...is this one of those ship/weapon mods that doesn't add systems? when reading your description i assumed it was purely a mission mod.It's being released early to test the ships. (Demo for a reason)
Balance testing, getting the ship systems zeroed in on what they should do, etc.
Plus, 0.8 will change quite a bit, so that's further incentive to not finish everything yet.
i know. see, that's what confused me when i started reading people talking about the weapons in your mod and i started wondering if i was in error and this was actually something i could use to add more to the campaign.
"spawn in the markets" - this is promising. can i actually use them without a CTD then? or is it just for "refitting" theorycrafting?
oh. that's wonderful! i must have misunderstood your 'demo' connotation (i suppose having "refitting screen" and "markets" in the same sentence got me confused, maybe)
Are you planing to add any large fighter wings (With small fast ships)?
How will AI handle the new combat system?
Will they just be really Stupid?
... As it happens, the AI isn't rubbish at this due to the AI conditions involved in the relevant systems.
More fixes will come (the Supercharger Flux Sink has not received any attention just yet and really needs to), but this is probably the last major update I'll get out before the big 0.8 release, after which point I'll be taking some time to settle into the new game mechanics and get to grips with making The Silent Armada 0.8-compatible. So, until then, try out the ships in the new combat system, let me know if anything is broken, overpowered or misspelled, and have a good day!
Would you look at the time! 0.8 just came out!
Only did a little screwing around with it, but it definitely feels a lot better - all told the matchmaker with the standard loadout I was testing lost 24 OP. Had to take off advanced turret gyros and aux thrusters, so it got it's weaknesses back :P
Still destroys anything in it's weight class in a straight fight, but they're easy to maneuver around and it felt a lot easier to get overwhelmed by smaller ships to where you can't keep up.
Also the EMP damage on the elektra is great - Even better at mauling fighters, but you can squeeze shots past some ships with small shield arcs and disable weapons behind them.
Yup, the original setup had grounded armour AND resistant flux coils :P
You should make a frigate sized armored plane.
Kinda like a Boeing Flying Fortress
While in the heat of battle I often take brutal hits to exposed armor and hull when I thought the 'Phoenix' Composite Hull was turned on. Turns out the composite hull was off, I just didn't realize it because the TSA ship's color scheme is very similar to the composite hull (they're both red). This makes it difficult for me to tell if the composite hull is on or not at a glance.
Now I don't know how this issue could be solved for the TSA ships, but I can reference another mod that has a similar design to their shield system while their's is a bit more obvious when it's on.Spoiler(http://i.imgur.com/K9WKxBU.png)(http://i.imgur.com/AejMsQ7.png)[close]
Wait, base replacement time isnt a moddable stat? that seems.. odd. Im not at my pc now, but I thought that wouldve been a like.. Somewhat important balancing stat for fighters
Hey, given that explorer is the only cargo/support right now and that there are various new systems that are intended for such ships you may consider to increase it's OP.
Alternatively i cheated by adding Surveying equipment and HiRes sensors to it and made (TUG) skin equipped with Salvage Gantry and Tow Cable instead (working on skin graphics).
I'm pretty sure it is? Different fighters have different replacement rates (e.g. 1 Broadsword is replaced in 10 seconds, 1 Longbow is replaced in 15 seconds), and there's a refit value in wing_data.csv that's identical to the base replacement rate, so I'd expect changing that value would change the replacement rate. Unless you're talking about something else?Wait, base replacement time isnt a moddable stat? that seems.. odd. Im not at my pc now, but I thought that wouldve been a like.. Somewhat important balancing stat for fighters
Yeah. Beats me. I think the game assumes that all fighters take the same amount of time to build/re-arm or something. Some hullmods/skills can change the time, but it affects all fighters by the same amount.
Still, you raise a good point. You'd think replacement time would be fighter-specific. Eh. The devs probably have a good reason for it not being a thing.
Been playing your mod for the fighters and weapons, love it so far, haven't tried out the ships yet. Only issue I've spotted is that the Electra EM Mortar doesn't have a description or role.
I'm pretty sure it is? Different fighters have different replacement rates (e.g. 1 Broadsword is replaced in 10 seconds, 1 Longbow is replaced in 15 seconds), and there's a refit value in wing_data.csv that's identical to the base replacement rate, so I'd expect changing that value would change the replacement rate. Unless you're talking about something else?
The buckler interceptor drone looks great!
The only problem i might see is that there is only 3.
Everything else looks great so far!
Thank you for the updates and may I ask, when will this mod have the features of being playable in campaign?
When will this mod be released (no longer a "Demo")?
The Silent Armada will lose its Demo status once I implement the ships into the campaign. I'd rather have more content first however, so that may not be for a while.
Thank you for the updates and may I ask, when will this mod have the features of being playable in campaign?
(Check the FAQ tab on the OP:)QuoteWhen will this mod be released (no longer a "Demo")?
The Silent Armada will lose its Demo status once I implement the ships into the campaign. I'd rather have more content first however, so that may not be for a while.
I'm super hyped for when we can finally try these out in a campaign setting. I'd been playing world of warships for a bit a month or two ago and it made me crave the slow, durable battleship type (W/ Long range, slow projectiles, lots of hardpoints etc.) ships which aren't quite in starsector yet, nothing beyond fortress shield at least. It's weird, it made me miss the Patrian Principate mod, and only after that it made me realise that i really liked this mod. You're doing good work, i'm excited to see how this mod turns out!
Is the High Power Rangefinder supposed to be compatible with Integrated Targeting Unit? Because it's kind of crazy to be able to stack so much range boosting on my ships.
Is this still being worked on?
The Silent Armada just went Silent. How fitting.
Yo, so... its been over a year now, like 1.2 years. I just would like to know, is this compatible with .9? Like, can it be used and work with .9?