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Starsector => General Discussion => Topic started by: Warnoise on May 13, 2021, 09:54:34 PM

Title: Let's talk about the Prometheus MKII...
Post by: Warnoise on May 13, 2021, 09:54:34 PM
So I am correctly doing a LP run, and I just got my hand on one of these ships.

After trying it in combat, well...for 32 points, it clearly didn't pay for its worth of dp.

I wish Militarized subsystems was built-in so at least it leaves some OP for better weapons/hullmods.

I am thinking about tweaking ship files and give it some tweaks, so how do we make the promotheus MK2 viable?
Title: Re: Let's talk about the Prometheus MKII...
Post by: Burvjradzite on May 13, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
I think it is not meant to be even closely to being viable. It's a tanker makeshifted by psychopaths just to barely have some gun and armour. And compared to atlas mk2 by pirates - pirates at least have some talent in construction, they did the best cruiser in the game after all, falcon(p). So only viable option for Prometheus is to ramming and then explode, as intended.
Title: Re: Let's talk about the Prometheus MKII...
Post by: Fenrir on May 13, 2021, 11:17:10 PM
You need to know that ships are meant to go on suicide attacks as a pather...
Title: Re: Let's talk about the Prometheus MKII...
Post by: Warnoise on May 13, 2021, 11:41:14 PM
You need to know that ships are meant to go on suicide attacks as a pather...

For 32dp one would expect something takes an expensive capital with it... Its damage isn't that high
Title: Re: Let's talk about the Prometheus MKII...
Post by: Realm on May 13, 2021, 11:47:50 PM
If you think of it as a Dominator merged with a Condor, with more flexible slots than either (and a Phaeton of fuel capacity shoved in) then it's really not a bad ship at all for the deployment cost.

Oh, and throw in the capital-grade hullmod scaling as a bonus.
Title: Re: Let's talk about the Prometheus MKII...
Post by: Justinkid on May 13, 2021, 11:49:38 PM
I totally agree. I know it's an intentionally mediocre capital ship, but there's no reason why it's dp can't be lower to reflect that.
Title: Re: Let's talk about the Prometheus MKII...
Post by: TaLaR on May 14, 2021, 12:24:55 AM
Last time I checked, it wiped the floor with 25DP Dominator (faster, capital ITU, more slots, 2 fighter bays). 32dp seems about adequate.
Title: Re: Let's talk about the Prometheus MKII...
Post by: KDR_11k on May 14, 2021, 02:46:05 AM
With Auxiliary Support and an Assault Package it becomes a bit more viable. I used to drive a P2 with Assault Package in the early-midgame of one of my runs and with dual HILs plus some higher tier kinetic guns on it it was quite a formidable ship, even after the bug with it got fixed.
Title: Re: Let's talk about the Prometheus MKII...
Post by: Warnoise on May 14, 2021, 03:23:36 AM
I ended up giving it built-in Militarized subsystems. I think for 32p capital, it has very low op (220) and with decent loadout it can barely win against a dominator.

I tested it against a Conquest and it didn't stand a chance.

The build I used is:
Hullmods:
Militarized subsystems (before I modified ship files so I paid op for it)
Assault package
ITU

Weapons:
Large:
Squall
Mark IX
Hellbore

Medium:
2xHeavy autocannon

Small:
DMG and Vulcan

Fighters:
2 Broadside

This might not be the best build, but I found it survive longer this way in big fleet battles

In order to use assault package I have to pay 25op for militarized subsystems, so 25+15=40.  I have to pay 40op just to make it a proper combat ship.
Title: Re: Let's talk about the Prometheus MKII...
Post by: Arcagnello on May 14, 2021, 03:33:42 AM
I ended up giving it built-in Militarized subsystems. I think for 32p capital, it has very low op (220) and with decent loadout it can barely win against a dominator.

I tested it against a Conquest and it didn't stand a chance.

The build I used is:
Hullmods:
Militarized subsystems (before I modified ship files so I paid op for it)
Assault package
ITU

Weapons:
Large:
Squall
Mark IX
Hellbore

Medium:
2xHeavy autocannon

Small:
DMG and Vulcan

Fighters:
2 Broadside

This might not be the best build, but I found it survive longer this way in big fleet battles

In order to use assault package I have to pay 25op for militarized subsystems, so 25+15=40.  I have to pay 40op just to make it a proper combat ship.

I don't exactly remember the build I used, but I remember that the Prometheus can surprisongly fit a large energy weapon on a turret, which more or less screams High Intensity Laser to me, altough installing a Squall on that conveniently placed large missle hardpoint instead of a Hammer barrage really is quite sad....

The fact it's a Luddic Path ship that still has the Civilian Status is quite disappointing to me aswell, but there are more expensive hullmods that should be fit first, like Heavy Armor, Reinforced Bulkheads and Expanded Missile Racks.

How much armor does it have by the way? If it can get to 2k armor with both HA and Armored Weapon mounts it could very well be eligible for Shield Shunt!
Title: Re: Let's talk about the Prometheus MKII...
Post by: Undead on May 14, 2021, 03:45:19 AM
This discussion of the luddic path prometheus has led me to an idea - what if the luddic path converted fuel freighters we basically suicide bombers? Give them some build in hull mod, something like "redemption contraption"  that basically explodes the vehicle as if it was destroyed, but with a few changes - the explosion is much stronger, bigger in radius, and most importantly - pierces through shield overload? And also modify the prometheus AI to target the biggest ship - like your capital. That would combine well with the burn drive. And of course, the player wouldnt be able to use it - firstly because there is only one button for special system, and secondly because it would be just wrong to explode yourself. That would make pathers much more dangerous than they currently are - because right now they are one of the weakest opponents to fight, and resemble an annoying fly rather than a wasp that will make you cr*p in your pants once you see one.

And, of course, add pather phaeton and drum, with the same explosion device.
Title: Re: Let's talk about the Prometheus MKII...
Post by: Arcagnello on May 14, 2021, 04:50:42 AM
This discussion of the luddic path prometheus has led me to an idea - what if the luddic path converted fuel freighters we basically suicide bombers? Give them some build in hull mod, something like "redemption contraption"  that basically explodes the vehicle as if it was destroyed, but with a few changes - the explosion is much stronger, bigger in radius, and most importantly - pierces through shield overload? And also modify the prometheus AI to target the biggest ship - like your capital. That would combine well with the burn drive. And of course, the player wouldnt be able to use it - firstly because there is only one button for special system, and secondly because it would be just wrong to explode yourself. That would make pathers much more dangerous than they currently are - because right now they are one of the weakest opponents to fight, and resemble an annoying fly rather than a wasp that will make you cr*p in your pants once you see one.

And, of course, add pather phaeton and drum, with the same explosion device.

There's a mod called Luddic Enchancement (by King Alfonzo) that more or less does that actually! https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15084.0

Namely, an IED Dram and even a Prometheus Mk.2 variant that fires IED Drams as ammunition!
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/RgdXw3l.png)
[close]
Title: Re: Let's talk about the Prometheus MKII...
Post by: KDR_11k on May 14, 2021, 05:12:25 AM
The fact it's a Luddic Path ship that still has the Civilian Status is quite disappointing to me aswell, but there are more expensive hullmods that should be fit first, like Heavy Armor, Reinforced Bulkheads and Expanded Missile Racks.

How much armor does it have by the way? If it can get to 2k armor with both HA and Armored Weapon mounts it could very well be eligible for Shield Shunt!

A single Prometheus2 can get some decent buffs from Auxiliary support. Of course with the caveat that you can't mil sub anything else if you use that.
Title: Re: Let's talk about the Prometheus MKII...
Post by: Undead on May 14, 2021, 05:13:45 AM
Oh, so it was invented already :) unfortunately Im not a fan of modded starsector, I prefer the vanilla experience. At least for now.

Edit: but that mod doesnt feature the suicide bomb hullmod, isnt it? Although some changes seems like something that would fit vanilla game quite nicely
Title: Re: Let's talk about the Prometheus MKII...
Post by: Low Settings on May 14, 2021, 05:32:49 AM
I think your best bet is a long range support finisher/bomber. It has bad shields and armor so it can't really tank so much. But it has 3 large mounts that all face forward and two fighter wings you can work with.
Title: Re: Let's talk about the Prometheus MKII...
Post by: Wywern on May 14, 2021, 06:10:30 AM
It's able to roundly beat a simulator conquest without any officer or fleet buffs, so I think it's fine for a non-military ship.

The setup I used was 2 arbalests, a hammer barrage, a mark IX, a devastator cannon, and 2 xyphos support fighter squadrons. Mods were integrated targeting unit and armored weapon mounts. I imagine if you had the skill that massively boosts militarized subsystems etc. and this was the only militarized ship in your fleet, it'd be quite the beast. With that skill even the atlas mk.2 becomes quite the monster at long range.
Title: Re: Let's talk about the Prometheus MKII...
Post by: Daynen on May 14, 2021, 10:02:09 AM
I find it best to think of the Promey2 not as an underpowered capital ship but as a modest fuel tanker that fights back.  It might not hold the copious quantities of fuel it used to but enemies will actually have to fight to bring it down.
Title: Re: Let's talk about the Prometheus MKII...
Post by: Locklave on May 14, 2021, 12:08:41 PM
But did you consider the cool factor? The ship is a 5/10 but the cool factor is +3 making it a 8/10.

That math can't be wrong.
Title: Re: Let's talk about the Prometheus MKII...
Post by: Razor Feather on May 14, 2021, 12:56:55 PM
I think its also important to recognize that compared to the other civilian/improvised warships, the Prometheus mk2 does offer the best durability of the lot, as well as solid reach from the fighterbays/large mounts, which means its in a decent position to serve as an improvised lineholder type vessel. Something the other ships in the fleet can rely on for cover while they vent flux and the like. It also has the mobility to keep up, at least somewhat, to those smaller ships.
Title: Re: Let's talk about the Prometheus MKII...
Post by: WeiTuLo on May 14, 2021, 03:36:23 PM
But did you consider the cool factor? The ship is a 5/10 but the cool factor is +3 making it a 8/10.

That math can't be wrong.

If you are having fun, it is correct. But if it can be optimized, could it be more correct?
Title: Re: Let's talk about the Prometheus MKII...
Post by: Arcagnello on May 14, 2021, 04:25:27 PM
Prometheus MK2 could probably be considered a souped up dominator with better weapons and turret arcs, if only it did not come with a Civilian Grade Hull.

I mean, there are bloody Buffalos that don't have a civilian grade Hull just because of a thrice Moloch-cursed paintjob the Hegemony gave it, are you telling me an extremely overhauled Prometheus with additional weapons, a brand new ship system and two fighter bays can not be considered Militarized?
Title: Re: Let's talk about the Prometheus MKII...
Post by: WeiTuLo on May 14, 2021, 04:42:53 PM
It is still possible to install militarized subsystems, install assault/escort package, smod the package, and then drop the militarized subsystems. Otherwise the increase in crew required is horrendous, and I expect the ship to die from time to time. So for Prometheus MK II, I could see maybe 2 tachyon lances, 2 HVDs, some sort of missile, and 2 fighters or bombers. With an officer, this would be 2x 1750 range or even 1950 range tachyon lances and other stuff for just 32 DP.

The 10 fuel/LY is awful though, regular Atlas/Prometheus are now 6 fuel/LY, but the MK IIs are still 10.

Speaking of Buffalos, I was testing out Buffalo Mk II's. They have horrid PPT (120), converted fighter bays without the reduced dmod skill really hurts fighter speed, and 2 fuel is a lot for a 4 dp ship. And the fighters barely engage, even when their parent ships are ordered to. They still close in to ~1000 range even if they have all harpoons/pilums and no other weapons, PD or otherwise.
Title: Re: Let's talk about the Prometheus MKII...
Post by: KDR_11k on May 15, 2021, 04:39:05 AM
I'm not sure it can handle the flux output of twin tachyons, if it does work then you have a great beam sniper at probably the lowest DP cost you can get one at. I used to drive mine with twin HILs and some needlers, the angles on the ballistic mounts are annoying. Especially for a smaller, more rag-tag fleet you're getting a lot of value from twin HILs with capital range, using them to intercept fighter wings and missile swarms in addition to the regular combat role.

Also I find them generally much more threatening than Atlas 2s when fighting LP or pirate fleets despite lacking the AAF system.