Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => General Discussion => Blog Posts => Topic started by: David on March 29, 2017, 02:49:03 PM

Title: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: David on March 29, 2017, 02:49:03 PM
Blog post here (http://fractalsoftworks.com/2017/03/29/ships-log-of-salvage-daves-final-mission/).
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on March 29, 2017, 03:05:25 PM
*squeals like a schoolgirl*
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: CrashToDesktop on March 29, 2017, 03:06:50 PM
The Benevolent Protector - nice one. ;) More like Lord Overlord the Lord, Salvage Dave had better behave himself!
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on March 29, 2017, 03:19:02 PM
Wait, I thought the CR decay from storms was removed? But by the (b)log here, it says that they did lose CR?
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Tycow on March 29, 2017, 03:20:32 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/T1SCug3.gif)

Seriously, great read David. Good work. :)

Really looking forward to the next release!
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Thaago on March 29, 2017, 03:21:30 PM
<3

This was wonderful. And I will be taking a combat ship exploring, profit margins be damned...
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Alex on March 29, 2017, 03:21:58 PM
Wait, I thought the CR decay from storms was removed? But by the (b)log here, it says that they did lose CR?

Definitely hasn't been removed.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: StarSchulz on March 29, 2017, 03:24:57 PM
Cant wait to get my hands on an apogee again!
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on March 29, 2017, 03:25:23 PM
Wait, I thought the CR decay from storms was removed? But by the (b)log here, it says that they did lose CR?

Definitely hasn't been removed.
Ouch... Has the slowly at least been removed? Those two, combined with fast ship recoveries and how "fuzzy" the hyperstorm's edges are, really hurts...
Also, does sustained burn start out at +10 or +5? (IE does that skill make it +10 or +15)?
Edit: Is there a max burn speed of 20?
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: CrashToDesktop on March 29, 2017, 03:25:57 PM
Wow, I'm assuming Zeta Tar is a procedurally generated system?  It's a surprisingly large, populated, and just overall dense system.  Too bad it's completely barren, as will be the fate of a lot of interesting systems, I think.

Also; the DDS Delta Max Defender-class, PD variant ship eh?  Sounds like a sentry or vedette drone, considering the entire rest of the system is completely uninhabited.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: AxleMC131 on March 29, 2017, 03:27:29 PM
EXCITEMENT INTENSIFIES  ;D

(*Ahem* Love it!!! Can't wait to be able to do things like this myself... Exploring systems, finding derelicts, salvaging wreckage...!)
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: David on March 29, 2017, 03:28:59 PM
Wow, I'm assuming Zeta Tar is a procedurally generated system?  It's a surprisingly large, populated, and just overall dense system.  Too bad it's completely barren, as will be the fate of a lot of interesting systems, I think.

I was actually a bit shocked at how barren it was (and worried "oh god this is going to be the most boring blog post ever"). My experience in testing to this point has yielded a lot more junk floating around, on the whole. I did of course eventually stumble into some very nice and valuable stuff, just ... you know. REDACTED.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Alex on March 29, 2017, 03:30:57 PM
Also, does sustained burn start out at +10 or +5? (IE does that skill make it +10 or +15)?
Edit: Is there a max burn speed of 20?

It's +10/+15, limit 20.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: ANGRYABOUTELVES on March 29, 2017, 03:32:45 PM
So we've seen a "Defender-Class PD Variant" that looks to be the size of a fighter, and a "Picket-Class Assault Variant" that looks to be the size of a frigate. Interesting. Looks like you want at least one dedicated combat vessel before you start doing deep black salvage.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: AxleMC131 on March 29, 2017, 03:33:42 PM
I did of course eventually stumble into some very nice and valuable stuff, just ... you know. REDACTED.

There's been a lot of this "REDACTED" recently, hasn't there?  ;) Damn those Hegemony representatives and their tight lips...
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: CrashToDesktop on March 29, 2017, 03:34:36 PM
I was actually a bit shocked at how barren it was (and worried "oh god this is going to be the most boring blog post ever"). My experience in testing to this point has yielded a lot more junk floating around, on the whole. I did of course eventually stumble into some very nice and valuable stuff, just ... you know. REDACTED.
At least comparing it to Nexerelin, it's fairly interesting just to look at the map.  Lots of planets, asteroid belts, nebulae, and debris fields around planets (also; noticed that asteroid belts now have a nice dotted line to tell you they're an asteroid belt).  If the system was colonized, it might very well become more interesting.  Can't wait to see more of this exploration in action!

Too bad Salvage Dave didn't make it back.  I wonder if that means anything for the future of how player death is handled...
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: David on March 29, 2017, 03:40:47 PM
Too bad Salvage Dave didn't make it back.  I wonder if that means anything for the future of how player death is handled...

Or did he? Maybe he's layin' low. Maybe he's just drifting among the stars, floating in a most peculiar way; and the stars look very different today...
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Morgan Rue on March 29, 2017, 03:42:36 PM
I really like the [REDACTED BY HEGEMONY COMSEC]
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on March 29, 2017, 03:43:27 PM
Speaking of asteroid belts: Have they been improved so that they don't lag the system all to hell and back? I know from mods that high levels of them can REALLY drag down a game
Edit: You might want to update the "News" ticker on the top of the forum guys!
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Alex on March 29, 2017, 03:46:37 PM
Speaking of asteroid belts: Have they been improved so that they don't lag the system all to hell and back? I know from mods that high levels of them can REALLY drag down a game

Hmm - I'd say it's a mod issue. It's pretty easy to add an irresponsibly large number of asteroid-entities to a belt in an effort to make it look denser. Their performance is pretty good for what they are, but if there's a metric ton of them, then that's a problem. I would suggest providing feedback to mod authors if you run into this.

Naturally, I could be wrong, and if it turns out to be an issue in vanilla as well, I'll take a look. But I haven't noticed it being a problem in any of the procgen systems so far.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on March 29, 2017, 03:53:33 PM
Speaking of asteroid belts: Have they been improved so that they don't lag the system all to hell and back? I know from mods that high levels of them can REALLY drag down a game

Hmm - I'd say it's a mod issue. It's pretty easy to add an irresponsibly large number of asteroid-entities to a belt in an effort to make it look denser. Their performance is pretty good for what they are, but if there's a metric ton of them, then that's a problem. I would suggest providing feedback to mod authors if you run into this.

Naturally, I could be wrong, and if it turns out to be an issue in vanilla as well, I'll take a look. But I haven't noticed it being a problem in any of the procgen systems so far.
OK I was just making sure
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Inventor Raccoon on March 29, 2017, 04:03:05 PM
Defender-class and Picket-class. I suspect that they're automated AI defense ships.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: AxleMC131 on March 29, 2017, 04:06:09 PM
Defender-class and Picket-class. I suspect that they're automated AI defense ships.

Aye, that's my thought.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Gothars on March 29, 2017, 04:21:21 PM
That was a good read. And man, these distortion effects in the last images - let me just say, if atmospheric screen effects were an option, I'd definitely enable them!


I also like that skills can use special resources (volatiles in case of the tachyon detector), gives both more weight somehow.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: AxleMC131 on March 29, 2017, 04:23:26 PM
I also like that skills can use special resources (volatiles in case of the tachyon detector), gives both more weight somehow.

Agreed. And the requirement for crew and heavy machinery in surveying mechanics... Finally, the sector's commodities have been given some form of context outside of the AI markets and civilian population! :D
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on March 29, 2017, 04:24:10 PM
One issue I have with the neutrino detector is that it looks the same as the magnetic storms around some planets.
Also, has the lore changed to reflect the changes to being able to use a star's and gas giant's jump point? IIRC, you can use the star without any points and it states that it takes a very skilled captain to use one
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Dri on March 29, 2017, 04:49:17 PM
Damn good stuff and fun storytelling! One wonders how things went so badly for Salvage Dave when he and his crew had such success in the first battle against the REDACTED!

I was actually thinking of creating a forum topic in hopes of getting some general info from you guys on how the early game will flow in 0.8, so this blog post was just what the space doctor ordered!
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: CrashToDesktop on March 29, 2017, 04:51:22 PM
One issue I have with the neutrino detector is that it looks the same as the magnetic storms around some planets.
Eh, I think it looks distinct enough as not to screw with the player.  Although I wouldn't mind a redesign if it fits the theme of a neutrino detector.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Harmful Mechanic on March 29, 2017, 04:53:27 PM
Salvage Dave, Salvage Dave,
Kinda foolish, and kinda brave,
Now he's in a, shallow grave.


That all sounds really promising. Abilities and skills using resources is great: tempting to set up some faction-specific goodies for faction-specific abilities.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: CrashToDesktop on March 29, 2017, 05:01:35 PM
I'm always one for interconnecting different bits of the game, and making it so Heavy Machinery, Volatiles, Crew, and probably other previously trade-only goods actually server a purpose outside of trading or basic fleet survival.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: 736b on March 29, 2017, 05:19:50 PM
This was an awesome read, thanks Dave!
Can't wait to try that playstyle myself. :)
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Dri on March 29, 2017, 05:42:20 PM
Hey Alex, are you gunning for all 4 aptitudes to have a full set of 10 skills like Combat currently has? I'm gonna guess that the answer is probably not, but Tech and Industry are still looking a mite sparse at least.

Now for something more on topic I gotta say that I've always enjoyed the "humble beginnings" stage of games, so I think I'm going to keep my fleet smaller for longer and really indulge in the feeling of setting off into the Great Unknown that is coming with this patch! Right now there's really no mystery to be had, so I basically just rush towards getting as big and powerful as I can...

May the good spirit of Salvage Dave be with me!
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on March 29, 2017, 05:43:16 PM
A question: Are we able to pick and choose or at least repair only some D mods? Or is it an all or nothing thing?
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: ANGRYABOUTELVES on March 29, 2017, 05:44:47 PM
The anticipation is getting physically painful at this point. If you're doing gameplay testing, I sure hope the release is sometime soon. I mean, what is the point of having an early access community that has basically paid to be beta testers if you're not going to use them to beta test things?
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Alex on March 29, 2017, 05:53:24 PM
Hey Alex, are you gunning for all 4 aptitudes to have a full set of 10 skills like Combat currently has? I'm gonna guess that the answer is probably not, but Tech and Industry are still looking a mite sparse at least.

... probably? Supposing outposts etc, a lot of the fleshing-out for those could come from there.

However, I think both Industry and Tech should be solid choices even as-is.


A question: Are we able to pick and choose or at least repair only some D mods? Or is it an all or nothing thing?

All or nothing, very much intentionally. Basically, you're not going to want to do it for anything but the rarest ships, and it costs significantly more than buying a brand-new ship.

I mean, what is the point of having an early access community that has basically paid to be beta testers if you're not going to use them to beta test things?

I can see why one might think that, but I think it's easy to underestimate just how much of the game being playable/enjoyable comes together in the last weeks before the release.

Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: CrashToDesktop on March 29, 2017, 06:10:56 PM
I can see why one might think that, but I think it's easy to underestimate just how much of the game being playable/enjoyable comes together in the last weeks before the release.
Just so you know, I've been through a lot of games that are still in development, yet have a small group of community members who test the next update to make sure everything checks out.  More often than not, they test everything from stuff as basic as simple balance changes to new content and then entirely changed mechanics.  Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if such a group secretly exists for Starsector out of view of our eyes.  Also; news ticker.

Oh, and just realized there's a seed for the sector generation that you can choose.  Nice!
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Alex on March 29, 2017, 06:23:02 PM
Just so you know, I've been through a lot of games that are still in development, yet have a small group of community members who test the next update to make sure everything checks out.  More often than not, they test everything from stuff as basic as simple balance changes to new content and then entirely changed mechanics.  Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if such a group secretly exists for Starsector out of view of our eyes.  

I can see doing that, but it seems like a heck of a thing to do to one's most ardent supporters - asking them to burn out on the release while it's in bad shape. That said, there's probably some people that would be good with it.

The other problem, though, is that feedback's usefulness is questionable until stuff is in good shape to begin with. It would - entirely understandably! - range from "duh, I know that's broken" to "yeah, X makes no sense because Y isn't quite there". Signal-to-noise ratio would be low.

I mean, not saying it's entirely useless, but the bang-for-buck ratio doesn't seem to be the best. It's not like I'm waiting until it's perfect before releasing - just the first point where it doesn't feel entirely unreasonable to do so.


Also; news ticker.

Thanks, updated it!
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: CrashToDesktop on March 29, 2017, 06:37:22 PM
I do suppose Starsector is a pretty extreme example of where the small tester group idea might break - with releases 6 months apart (or even longer in this particular case with 0.8a), there is a distinct possibility you could get burned out.  Although hey, it took me nearly two years of both modding and game development on the same project every day before I nearly had a mental breakdown and needed a break - take that for what it's worth, I suppose.  As for the signal-to-noise being low: if you organize it well enough (for example, using Trello, which I've used in the past for testing games), it's not too much of an issue.  But hey, you never know it's potential until you try it.  Maybe for a slightly less ground-shattering update, it might be worth experimenting with.

I was actually a bit shocked at how barren it was (and worried "oh god this is going to be the most boring blog post ever").
It was a wonderful blog post David!  You got to show off a lot of stuff we hadn't seen yet, especially some of the system generation and exploration from the player's perspective.  Even if the trip turned out to be boring, we would have gotten to see a lot of awesome stuff we haven't seen before.  Luckily, it wasn't a boring trip, and we all got to see some extra-juicy stuff. :)
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Dri on March 29, 2017, 08:34:18 PM
You know, reading the little tale David weaved into his salvage trip kinda makes me sad that unique characters/personalities are probably not gonna happen. If not officers then maybe your second-in-command could be a real character at least, eh? The leadership of the major factions?

The potential for banter, after battle shouts, amusing reaction quips, etc. is right up there! Them long deep space exploration trips might get damn lonely otherwise! Heh, I guess I just want a bit more "RPG" injected into the game in some form.

Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: AxleMC131 on March 29, 2017, 08:50:34 PM
Aye, that's one of the reasons I've been thinking more and more seriously about installing the Battle Chatter mod. It looks incredible for assisting the immersion of the game, if only in combat.

EDIT: Excuse me. "Combat Chatter." http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=10399.0
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Dri on March 29, 2017, 09:39:18 PM
That is indeed one of the few mods I use! A few of the lines are a bit goofy but at the very least it totally helps you keep track of what's what!

I recommend it.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: AxleMC131 on March 29, 2017, 09:57:49 PM
That is indeed one of the few mods I use! A few of the lines are a bit goofy but at the very least it totally helps you keep track of what's what!

I recommend it.

Thanks, one more reason for me to install it.  ;D
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Voyager I on March 30, 2017, 12:06:24 AM
Having seen the route planner in action, I can only imagine I will struggling to remember how I lived without it for so many years.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: HELMUT on March 30, 2017, 04:34:37 AM
I hope we'll have more blog posts of that kind in the future, David. That was quite informative, and entertaining. By the way, some (suspiciously named) person did something like that on the rpg.net forum. Did the inspiration for this blog post came from there, or pure coincidence?

Also, i'm really glad you reworked that Hegemony flag.

Now we just have to wait for BP's authorization to start our own salvage operations.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Jonlissla on March 30, 2017, 05:42:43 AM
Great blog post, was fun reading through it. A little roleplay adds that extra spark especially with the use of the *redacted* censorship.

I've been hyped since August last year and I don't think I can get any more hyped about this release.

Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: nomadic_leader on March 30, 2017, 06:33:10 AM
Very nice, but if the Wolf D derelict you find is powered down and all messed up, why are the engines glowing in this pic of it?
Spoiler
(http://fractalsoftworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/derelict_wolf.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Machine on March 30, 2017, 07:30:24 AM
Hmm, small question, does setting the sector size to small, reduce the "gameplay area", decrease the star density, or a mix of both?. Mostly asking because of modding implications.

Too bad Salvage Dave didn't make it back.  I wonder if that means anything for the future of how player death is handled...

Or did he? Maybe he's layin' low. Maybe he's just drifting among the stars, floating in a most peculiar way; and the stars look very different today...

Fairly sure he is still sitting in a tin can.
Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D67kmFzSh_o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D67kmFzSh_o)
[close]
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Gothars on March 30, 2017, 07:38:08 AM
Oh BTW, it's great the UI elements on the right side of the screen are now properly framed. Looks much better :)
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: cjuicy on March 30, 2017, 08:51:02 AM
I swear, this blog post was spoopy.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Alex on March 30, 2017, 09:44:33 AM
Very nice, but if the Wolf D derelict you find is powered down and all messed up, why are the engines glowing in this pic of it?

... that's actually a bug, thought I'd taken care of that. Thanks for pointing it out, fixed!
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: FooF on March 30, 2017, 10:25:34 AM
(http://fractalsoftworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/derelict2.jpg)

Couple things I noticed with this (if you're looking for feedback):

First line: A derelict Hammerhead (D) class destroyer is drifting through space. (Seems to make more sense to me)

The Crew & Machinery icons are fine but I think there'd be less visible "noise" if you could combine Required and Available. Something like Required (Available) so 30(46) & 10(10). It condenses the needed information so that they're side-by-side.

Beyond the nitpicks, this was a great blog and a fun way of presenting the info. I was just talking about emergent story-telling in the early game over in the Suggestions forum and this was a great showcase of how that plays out. Can't wait for more.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: icepick37 on March 30, 2017, 10:33:30 AM
That was rad.

Can't wait to play around with all that fresh redacted content.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Inventor Raccoon on March 30, 2017, 10:33:59 AM
First line: A derelict Hammerhead (D) class destroyer is drifting through space. (Seems to make more sense to me)
Not necessarily. That sentence does make sense, though usually you'd stick a comma after "destroyer".
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Alex on March 30, 2017, 10:37:48 AM
Couple things I noticed with this (if you're looking for feedback):

Always, even when I don't know that I am just then :)

The Crew & Machinery icons are fine but I think there'd be less visible "noise" if you could combine Required and Available. Something like Required (Available) so 30(46) & 10(10). It condenses the needed information so that they're side-by-side.

Yep, added an item to look at it.

First line: A derelict Hammerhead (D) class destroyer is drifting through space. (Seems to make more sense to me)
Not necessarily. That sentence does make sense, though usually you'd stick a comma after "destroyer".

Added a comma there. The idea is that line is a description of the thing you're interacting with, rather that a description of what it's doing, if that makes sense.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Alex on March 30, 2017, 11:03:40 AM
Hmm, small question, does setting the sector size to small, reduce the "gameplay area", decrease the star density, or a mix of both?. Mostly asking because of modding implications.

Missed this - it reduces the area around the core worlds in which procedural systems are added, and reduces the number of star systems generated proportionally. The hyperspace area remains the same as for the normal Sector size.


Having seen the route planner in action, I can only imagine I will struggling to remember how I lived without it for so many years.

(Yeah, really enjoying that one myself.)
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: David on March 30, 2017, 11:23:36 AM
I hope we'll have more blog posts of that kind in the future, David. That was quite informative, and entertaining. By the way, some (suspiciously named) person did something like that on the rpg.net forum. Did the inspiration for this blog post came from there, or pure coincidence?

Also, i'm really glad you reworked that Hegemony flag.

1. Cool! The idea was to do a pretty standard LP and to make sure to hit lots of little new details so people could pick up on them 'naturally', so to speak. Also fun for me to be able to fill in some of the narrative details that the game glosses over, but of course didn't get too deep into the weeds there (because I could go on and on - I guess it isn't fanfic if it's a thing you're working on, is it; it'd be indulgent, anyway). Might have seen the LP you refer to at some point, don't really remember.

I'd love to add more narrative details of that sort. We've discussed ways to do some more of this and ... that's all there is to say about that for now.

2. Man, I re-did the Hegemony flag ages ago, probably shortly after the last patch. Got a better hang of PS's vector tools and figured it was time to step it up, basically.

I swear, this blog post was spoopy.

*tentative thumbs up?*
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: CrashToDesktop on March 30, 2017, 11:30:27 AM
Or did he? Maybe he's layin' low. Maybe he's just drifting among the stars, floating in a most peculiar way; and the stars look very different today...

Fairly sure he is still sitting in a tin can.
He's either sitting in a tin can waiting for rescue or he's very much floating as star dust after that Picket-class bested him. :)

Speaking of...might be interesting if there was a small chance of running into some trapped crew while salvaging ships from debris fields (as I think derelict ships are a bit too old and too far gone to have any survivors).  Maybe if it's fresh enough after a battle and you're going through the salvage, some rather grateful survivors could come out and join your crew, or even officers.

Hey, the debris fields and scavenging reminds me of that one-off Trade Winds mod that had all battles drops debris fields which the player could pick about.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: BillyRueben on March 30, 2017, 11:46:41 AM
I'm not sure if it was mentioned previously, but does it consume heavy machinery when salvaging?
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: CrashToDesktop on March 30, 2017, 11:49:10 AM
I'm not sure if it was mentioned previously, but does it consume heavy machinery when salvaging?
Somewhere, Alex said it doesn't directly consume crew or Heavy Machinery (that would just be evil, heh - "sacrifice 30 crew to run this Salvage Operation"), probably during a previous blog post.  Just need the listed amount of Crew and Heavy Machinery to run the operation at maximum safety, although there is a chance that some crew or Heavy Machinery might get lost during the operation, as this blog post shows at one point.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Alex on March 30, 2017, 11:51:23 AM
It's not consumed, no. Regular salvage ops also carry no risk to crew or machinery.

Scavenging inside debris fields (i.e. using the "Scavenge" ability), being a more risky business, does not actually *require* crew or machinery - but carries a risk of losing small amounts of either. Having machinery mitigates the risk to crew.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: nomadic_leader on March 30, 2017, 12:17:12 PM
It's not consumed, no. Regular salvage ops also carry no risk to crew or machinery.

Scavenging inside debris fields (i.e. using the "Scavenge" ability), being a more risky business, does not actually *require* crew or machinery - but carries a risk of losing small amounts of either. Having machinery mitigates the risk to crew.

Because it's hard work and the salvage crew needs to drink a lot of coffee, and sometimes those rugged orange coffeemakers break.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: CrashToDesktop on March 30, 2017, 12:30:54 PM
Scavenging inside debris fields (i.e. using the "Scavenge" ability), being a more risky business, does not actually *require* crew or machinery - but carries a risk of losing small amounts of either. Having machinery mitigates the risk to crew.
Speaking of that, do debris fields naturally spawn around planets?  Because in the map view of the Zeta Tar system, there's four places that have what looks like a thick belt of asteroids orbiting them, but don't have the dotted asteroid belt line to indicate they are such.  I can only assume they're debris fields, or maybe something else that hasn't been revealed.  If those are debris fields, can we Scavenge from them?
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Embolism on March 30, 2017, 12:32:14 PM
It's not consumed, no. Regular salvage ops also carry no risk to crew or machinery.

Scavenging inside debris fields (i.e. using the "Scavenge" ability), being a more risky business, does not actually *require* crew or machinery - but carries a risk of losing small amounts of either. Having machinery mitigates the risk to crew.

Because it's hard work and the salvage crew needs to drink a lot of coffee, and sometimes those rugged orange coffeemakers break.

I always thought of them as sewing machines... coffee maker fits a lot better though.

(I assume heavy machinery are meant to be 3D printers but... all I can think of are industrial-scale sewing machines.)
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: cjuicy on March 30, 2017, 12:35:32 PM
Industrial grade Cappuccino machine, forged of the finest Grade-C Duralloy. (Patent pending, Cycle 205 Post Collapse)
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Embolism on March 30, 2017, 12:50:46 PM
Hmm. We need a coffee beans commodity.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Inventor Raccoon on March 30, 2017, 12:57:37 PM
Hmm. We need a coffee beans commodity.
Meanwhile at Jangala...

Procurement contract: Deliver 1000 units of Premium Fresh Jangala Roasted Coffee Beans™ to Sindria within 60 days. $14,000 bonus for delivery within 30 days. $50 bonus for each unit of Tri-Tachyon™ Geneti-Coffee™ destroyed.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: nomadic_leader on March 30, 2017, 01:15:48 PM
I'm just glad that Keurig hasn't taken over the entire sector already; hate those things.

Procurement contract: Procure 5,000 tonnes of discarded keurig cups and get rid of the things somewhere; anywhere, as long as they don't clutter up any more L4 or L5 points.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: FooF on March 30, 2017, 01:17:13 PM
I always thought of them as sewing machines... coffee maker fits a lot better though.

(I assume heavy machinery are meant to be 3D printers but... all I can think of are industrial-scale sewing machines.)

+1 to the sewing machine. I see the "coffee maker" now that its mentioned. In my head, despite its looks, I've always thought heavy machinery were some sort of hydraulic press.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Chronosfear on March 30, 2017, 01:20:37 PM
Procurment contact : deliever Patch within the next 24 h for a happy community  8)

that hypetrain!!! *arrrrrr* runs away screaming.


Also very nice to read. Gives us a sweat peak inside.
But damn that Hegemony Truth Departement.
Well done sir . Well done
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: nomadic_leader on March 30, 2017, 02:05:17 PM
I always thought of them as sewing machines... coffee maker fits a lot better though.

(I assume heavy machinery are meant to be 3D printers but... all I can think of are industrial-scale sewing machines.)

+1 to the sewing machine. I see the "coffee maker" now that its mentioned. In my head, despite its looks, I've always thought heavy machinery were some sort of hydraulic press.

The image closely resembles a drill press. Yet even so, I always think of coffee maker.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Dri on March 30, 2017, 02:07:10 PM
Do debris fields usually only give a tiny handful of goods, as was shown in one of the screenies? 1-2 fuel/supply/machinery + a small stack of metal hardly seems worth the time. I'm gonna assume larger battles result in much juicer debris fields, ya?
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: CrashToDesktop on March 30, 2017, 02:15:08 PM
Do debris fields usually only give a tiny handful of goods, as was shown in one of the screenies? 1-2 fuel/supply/machinery + a small stack of metal hardly seems worth the time. I'm gonna assume larger battles result in much juicer debris fields, ya?
Not sure how much we know about the Salvage ability, but I think it might depend on how long you're in the Debris cloud with the Salvage ability turned on.  Just going off a wild guess and I probably missed something Alex said.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Mini S on March 30, 2017, 02:27:23 PM
Too bad Salvage Dave didn't make it back.  I wonder if that means anything for the future of how player death is handled...

Or did he? Maybe he's layin' low. Maybe he's just drifting among the stars, floating in a most peculiar way; and the stars look very different today...

I heard a rumor he might be somewhere close to bay 12...
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Alex on March 30, 2017, 02:29:50 PM
Do debris fields usually only give a tiny handful of goods, as was shown in one of the screenies? 1-2 fuel/supply/machinery + a small stack of metal hardly seems worth the time. I'm gonna assume larger battles result in much juicer debris fields, ya?

It entirely depends on the debris field. You can also look through the same field multiple times, which yields greatly diminishing returns. As far as battle debris fields: yeah, larger battles yield more stuff in the debris.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: AxleMC131 on March 30, 2017, 03:14:19 PM
Do debris fields usually only give a tiny handful of goods, as was shown in one of the screenies? 1-2 fuel/supply/machinery + a small stack of metal hardly seems worth the time. I'm gonna assume larger battles result in much juicer debris fields, ya?

It entirely depends on the debris field. You can also look through the same field multiple times, which yields greatly diminishing returns. As far as battle debris fields: yeah, larger battles yield more stuff in the debris.

I have no idea if this is what you were thinking, but I imagine that the rewards you can reap for exploring a debris field are similar materials and similar quantities you get from scuttling a ship. That's what seems to most closely match the scavenge shown.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Cyan Leader on March 31, 2017, 06:25:41 AM
Are the consequences of a failed salvage operation always strictly applied to crew/machinery or can we also expect CR/ship damage as well? What about the dreadful chance of losing a ship ala old ship boarding?
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: ZhAlias on March 31, 2017, 12:41:18 PM
When is new release?
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on March 31, 2017, 12:50:07 PM
When is new release?

I'll let this quote from Alex do the talking:
Very soontm. Wrapping things up, basically - major features are all done. Right now about halfway through adding a proper campaign tutorial, then it's a bit more playtesting and balancing/polish, and a few modding things, and it should be good. So - however long that all takes.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: GeometryPrime on March 31, 2017, 01:20:44 PM
... David, have you been reading the SCP Foundation? It sounds like you have.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: David on March 31, 2017, 01:40:45 PM
... David, have you been reading the SCP Foundation? It sounds like you have.

Hah, you're second person who asked this. Answer: I looked at it once a couple years ago for a couple minutes and decided I got the joke. The word "redacted" is the sticking point I believe, and I'll say it is a commonly used word in the appropriate narrative context. I think I am drawing from some of the same creative/historical sources that SCP is, so that's the connection, but I don't follow that site at all.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: AxleMC131 on March 31, 2017, 01:46:20 PM
It definitely feels more official than "censored" or something.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: cjuicy on March 31, 2017, 04:17:15 PM
YES! Give me [Redacted] T-shirts and I'll [Redacted] for joy!

All we need now is some nose-art for the hound and an Onslaught trophy.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Toxcity on March 31, 2017, 05:16:48 PM
On the intel map, there are a bunch of colored nebula, vs. the Hyperspace storms that are actually in game and on the map. Is there a reason for that difference?
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Alex on March 31, 2017, 05:38:25 PM
On the intel map, there are a bunch of colored nebula, vs. the Hyperspace storms that are actually in game and on the map. Is there a reason for that difference?

The Sector map has two modes - "Starscape" and normal. The starscape one is more pretty and a bit more suited towards getting a feel for the Sector's layout, and the nebula colors have meaning as well. Generally, though, I'd expect people to use the other one. Just... had to get nice-looking starscapes into the game, you know?
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Abradolf Lincler on March 31, 2017, 08:14:05 PM
REDACTED must work for the REDACTED with how much of the blog was redacted!  :D
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Eternity on April 01, 2017, 03:20:56 AM
Really good novel blog ;-) giving another way to feel this game deeper...

Seem's to get a lot of things on next release ;-)

Many thanks !
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Abradolf Lincler on April 01, 2017, 08:52:50 AM
REDACTED must work for the REDACTED with how much of the blog was redacted!  :D

ooooooooooh... you're good, I'll give you that.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Deshara on April 01, 2017, 12:36:57 PM
Do debris fields usually only give a tiny handful of goods, as was shown in one of the screenies? 1-2 fuel/supply/machinery + a small stack of metal hardly seems worth the time. I'm gonna assume larger battles result in much juicer debris fields, ya?

It entirely depends on the debris field. You can also look through the same field multiple times, which yields greatly diminishing returns.

Is there a reason for this? I only ask for a friend who happens to be a compulsive checker who has trouble not exhausting opportunities
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Tartiflette on April 01, 2017, 03:09:23 PM
Well it's one way to create a time consuming salvage system.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Sy on April 03, 2017, 12:00:36 PM
that was an awesome read, David! both because of all the 0.8 stuff shown, and the great in-universe story it's presented in. i'd love to see more such blog posts in the future. :]

i do have one complaint though: i preferred the 0.7.2 Hegemony phoenix. i think it was just the right mix of overall simplistic style with some fine details. the new one doesn't look bad either, but it doesn't feel quite as majestic and spacey, to me.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Linnis on April 03, 2017, 04:26:29 PM
Yes, I liked it too!  ;D
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: noego on April 04, 2017, 07:56:46 AM
The stories that can be generated by this game are amazing. I'm waiting for Boatmurdered, spess edition, it'll come one day for sure.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: icepick37 on April 04, 2017, 09:32:42 AM
Is there a reason for this? I only ask for a friend who happens to be a compulsive checker who has trouble not exhausting opportunities
I think I also have that friend.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Alex on April 04, 2017, 09:43:00 AM
Is there a reason for this? I only ask for a friend who happens to be a compulsive checker who has trouble not exhausting opportunities
I think I also have that friend.

Oh, right, never answered that. You can salvage debris multiple times but the amount you get is exponentially decreasing while the losses in crew and machinery are not. So it's more something you might do if you're desperate for a few more supplies right now, rather than as a matter of course.

For larger debris fields, it's going to be worth it to do a few times - but since there's a slight cooldown on the scavenge ability, it causes you to stick around for a bit, which I think also adds some nice feel.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: AxleMC131 on April 04, 2017, 02:52:16 PM
Is there a reason for this? I only ask for a friend who happens to be a compulsive checker who has trouble not exhausting opportunities
I think I also have that friend.

Oh, right, never answered that. You can salvage debris multiple times but the amount you get is exponentially decreasing while the losses in crew and machinery are not. So it's more something you might do if you're desperate for a few more supplies right now, rather than as a matter of course.

For larger debris fields, it's going to be worth it to do a few times - but since there's a slight cooldown on the scavenge ability, it causes you to stick around for a bit, which I think also adds some nice feel.

As long as you can scavenge fairly discreetly! *cough cough Firefly cough*
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: felixsimon on April 06, 2017, 11:47:03 PM
There's been over a year since last release and still no info on when new release comes out... Just saying...
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: AxleMC131 on April 07, 2017, 12:15:59 AM
There's been over a year since last release and still no info on when new release comes out... Just saying...

Don't worry, we've all been through that. There's a bunch of comments and posts on the fact that 0.8 isn't out yet, and the fact of that matter is, we don't know when it'll be out. We can speculate, sure, and it probably won't be more than a month from now, but when it comes down to it, 0.8 will be out when it's out.  ;)

"Good things come to those who wait," after all. Don't panic. If you're bored, check out some of the other suggestions to try something different with the current game - playing with mods is a good place to start.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: cjuicy on April 07, 2017, 07:48:31 AM
My recommendation is to take a break for a while. Play some other game like Brigador or finally finish that run of FTL that you've been putting off.

Or use a full on conversion mod like Ironclads for a new game experience.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Sy on April 07, 2017, 12:23:20 PM
There's been over a year since last release and still no info on when new release comes out... Just saying...
yeah, it's the longest release-less time yet, but it will also be the most extensive update yet. the amount of new stuff coming with 0.8a is honestly kinda crazy. ^^

Alex never gives an actual date on when the next release will be done, mostly because he simply can't know when that will be. game development, particularly of the kind and quality of Starsector, is often quite unpredictable, as the need for further additions, changes and fixes only becomes apparent as the update progresses.
he did however recently say it should be "very soon". so assuming there won't be any major upsets, i'm guessing it'll be out before the end of the month. :]
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: felixsimon on April 13, 2017, 01:09:54 PM
Problem is not in the wait: ive waited for 10 years for Diablo 3, and i believe that its better to wait, than to get unfinished product. My problem is that im afraid that such a long "dry season" will cause major lack of interest for the game and as a result, it will do poorly once fully released. after all people are interested in product, as long as there's something to keep them interested, like new content, added on regular basis. If theres no new content added for a long period of time, people will just move on and forget about this game.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: AxleMC131 on April 13, 2017, 04:15:46 PM
Problem is not in the wait: ive waited for 10 years for Diablo 3, and i believe that its better to wait, than to get unfinished product. My problem is that im afraid that such a long "dry season" will cause major lack of interest for the game and as a result, it will do poorly once fully released. after all people are interested in product, as long as there's something to keep them interested, like new content, added on regular basis. If theres no new content added for a long period of time, people will just move on and forget about this game.

To be fair, I'm pretty sure that problem only occurs when games are advertised from an early age on big websites and providers such. Starsector is an Indie game with (I hate to say it, but it's true) not a huge amount of advertising. Compared to a lot of other games out there, Starsector is very little-known by the general public, so that issue of "people will lose interest" happens way less because the people who get into the game really get into the game.  ;)
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Inventor Raccoon on April 13, 2017, 04:35:57 PM
To be fair, I'm pretty sure that problem only occurs when games are advertised from an early age on big websites and providers such. Starsector is an Indie game with (I hate to say it, but it's true) not a huge amount of advertising. Compared to a lot of other games out there, Starsector is very little-known by the general public, so that issue of "people will lose interest" happens way less because the people who get into the game really get into the game.  ;)
Yep, this is practically one of my dream-game genres (last game I played was Reassembly, and it didn't quite hit the spot). Open world, lots of different ships with interchangeable parts, factions with different relations, modding support? Pretty much perfect. Yet, I only found out that it existed when a youtuber (who I was following for a completely different genre of game) made a video early last year and I immediately went and bought the game. Not being on Steam is probably a big reason, though Starsector is not a game that should be on Steam, because of the release cycle and alpha and such. I feel like, maybe when the game gets a couple more updates (mostly more campaign stuff and Outposts and such), it'll get more attention.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: AxleMC131 on April 13, 2017, 05:55:35 PM
Agreed. I found out about it from a friend waaaay back in... 2013 or something? Played it for about three months then forgot it (I'm sorry!), and came back to it last year. Haven't been able to put it down since.  :P
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Sy on April 14, 2017, 04:26:04 AM
yeah, this "people will lose interest with long waits" is one of the reasons for why Alex has no intention whatsoever to use steam early access or similar. when you buy Starsector, you buy the game in its current state more so than any promises of what's still to come at some point in the future. and seeing as how i already got hundreds of hours of entertainment from ~0.5.4 to 0.7.2 (not to mention getting to know a bunch of great people in this community :)), i'm personally quite satisfied with the value i got out of my 10 bucks! ^^

and after the eventual full release (which will almost certainly include a steam release), the game doesn't need "new content, added on regular basis". in fact, the vast majority of b2p single-player games do not have major content additions after release, outside of payed-for DLC. patches to fix bugs, balancing issues, etc; yes. though even there Starsector's alpha versions are more polished than maaany 'finished' games.

i understand the concern, and i'm sure all of us here want Starsector to be successful, but i don't think its successful future will be hindered by the current long wait between patches. and it's already sold thousands of copies (we don't have official numbers from Alex on this, but iirc estimate based on mod downloads is minimum of 5k, probably more like 10k+) even before being available on any of the big stores.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Spoorthuzad on April 14, 2017, 10:03:04 AM
Regarding long waits between updates. I prefer it this way. When there's an Starsector update they are very well polished and mostly bugfree. Games which seem to update more regularly like stellaris are generally always so filled with gamebreaking bugs it's honestly very annoying to play (I don't hate stellaris). I have never encountered a bug in starsector and if I have it was so minor that it would barely have any gameplay effects. I think it's worth waiting for quality content that's well polished without frustrating bugs.

Kudos to you Alex!  :)
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: PCCL on April 21, 2017, 06:08:33 PM
after playing around with the [REDACTED] for a bit, I feel like I have to say...

david, you lost your wayfarer... to 3 of THOSE?

cmon man....
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Inventor Raccoon on April 21, 2017, 06:28:10 PM
David, I'm not mad. Just disappointed.
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: David on April 21, 2017, 08:49:01 PM
I got cocky while at low CR (this is before a supplies/fuel rebalance made both far more common) and got my Wayfarer surrounded by three of 'em using triple vulcans. They're harmless until a pack closes in ...
Title: Re: Ship's Log of Salvage Dave's Final Mission
Post by: Voyager I on April 21, 2017, 11:12:54 PM
Rename the Wayfarer to the GSG Clockwork Empires.