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[zenstrata]

IIRC peak readiness time only ticks down if the combined strength of the ships near you is equal to or greater than your own strength

The problem is, I purposefully run with as small a fleet as possible.  I only enter combat with 1 ship (a cruiser).  This gives my fleet a very low strength rating because I Want to be attacked.  I really dislike dealing with multiple friendly ships at a time,  Basically I only have a couple small freighters for carrying junk around quickly, and 1 combat cruiser ship against the universe.

This is why CR is a problem.  Not because I abuse the AI during combat, but because I only run one ship.

I honestly can't figure out why it was added for cruisers, they are not the hyper fast or small ships that people used in the past to abuse the ai with.  They tend to be slower and more strategic during combat.  The readiness timer is honestly not needed on the larger ships and feels like a very bothersome hindrance.

[Serenitis]

This is why CR is a problem.  Not because I abuse the AI during combat, but because I only run one ship.

I can empathise, I too like solo flying.
It used to be that only frigates had CR timers and anything larger could happily dance around as long as your patience lasted.
I would prefer to go back to this, but it will never happen.

So I have tried my best to adapt to it and have come the conclusion that while it is not my preference, you can render the timer irrelevant by either killing or chasing off everything as quickly as you can, or separating the enemy force and killing them piecemeal so they don't count as enough to even start the timer.
Also it is possible to reset your ships timer by retreating and re-engaging if you run out.
It feels a bit "gamey" doing it mind.

[Cosmitz]

I see the conversation switched to the starting ship, which means there is a serious problem with the beginning of the game, something we've known for a huge while, but now it really puts a crimp into even old players.

As it's been mentioned the issue is split between frigate power, playstyle that differs from larger ships and outright the fact that at the moment the only feasible start is the Wolf with 6k credits, even if you hate the Wolf and will buy something else with the credits and cash from it the first chance you get. I'd like to preserve the lineage of roleplaying a character, but without any of the existing issues. I love what i can do in the game once i put my foot through the door, but the actual putting-foot-in-door process is.. uneeded. All that's needed is bumping up the start up options. I'm sure we all have a point where 'now i can start playing' in regards to fleet choices, let's just get that done before we grind 15k credits during the first mandatory bounty session. In this ocean of predators, we don't even start up as a fish, we start up as plankton. And there's little we /can/ eat.

Let's just have different starts that balance themselves out while offering different playstyles.

- Wolf start is a nice fast-kitey frigate gameplay that can stay, changing the loadout to something geared and proper, heavy blasters, tac lasers. Lose the bonus cash, say you got scammed. You'd start out as a pure breed combat frigate ready to play the start like that with no holds barred.
- A D variant or a severely damaged  30%CR Hammerhead or Enforcer with very few guns and few supplies. You'd have access to some larger, holding-power, ship gameplay, while focusing your first combat cash to either go towards repairing it full up or arming it. The price of selling it would pretty much only buy a low-tier frigate anyway, so you have to work with it.
- A Condor with a flight of fighters. A much different trader/strategist kind of deal. Say this is the only choice that starts with some on-hand cash to kickstart Missions and fast-crisis resolving.
- A Mule D or a Tarsus for a pure trader start. Maybe have the hold already have some Food, some Ore, something you can leverage at start.

And this can go on, but the current choices, between a hound and a Wolf and cash? That's not choice, it's allowing the player to fail before he even sets foot in the game.

[SpacePoliticianAndaZealot]

-The old Wolf loadout was the undisputed king of kiting
-Hammerhead (D) is simply too awful. Not to mention how defective hullmods also boost the sensor profile of the ship, which I find blatantly nonsensical. However, a regular Hammerhead would be nice if the player starts with only 2k credits.
-A Gemini would be better. Remember, the combat-oriented starting options aren't about throwing the player all the way down in the food chain.
-Nah, I still believe the Cerberus is a superior starting option for traders.

[Cosmitz]

Gemini is overpowered in the same realm as the Hyperion and rarity is the only balancing factor. 250 cargo, small profile and a flight deck plus burn speed. Doesn't help that it's expensive to run for a 'starter' ship. Stick to often-found ships.

[Megas]

Graviton Beams and Tactical Lasers are good for frying weak pirates now that they have 1000 range.  Before 0.65, beams had less range, and when Advanced Optics were removed, Tactical Lasers had 600 range, same as Light Autocannon.  Beam Wolf lost that flux war against ballistic-based pirates.  Today, beam Wolf would be great at killing pirates up to Enforcers.  Against stronger enemies, beam Wolf gets stopped cold.

I like the current Wolf's pulse laser/pd laser starter combo - basic but effective.  About the only changes that could be made is maybe an ion cannon at the middle small mount and maybe blast doors swapped out for more capacitors.


Wolf starts with 2,000 credits if you do not take the money option.  I always take the heavy blaster instead of money or crew.  I can get 4,000 more credits or better crew soon enough.  Heavy blasters are rare, and places aside from Black Markets require high relations and commission.  Even if I do not want the blaster on my Wolf, I can always find another ship that can use it soon.

Traders should use either Hound or Cerberus, then buy more frigates without the Civilian Hull handicap.  Those have the option of not fighting at all by stacking speed hullmods and outrunning everything in a pursuit.  Bigger ships are too slow for that.


I would not use current Gemini as a starter ship.  It is slow at burn 8 by default (most things are faster), and it does not have enough OP to use much.  In other words, a fat target that will die if you cannot defend it.  Gemini is good as a carrier/freighter combo once you add cruisers and fighters to your fleet.  If you want to give the player a destroyer to start with, Hammerhead is about as basic as you can get can.  It has the least mounts for a combat destroyer and just enough power to be effective for its size.


What would be nice is if the smuggler start had inhospitable relations (instead of hostile) for pirates.  There seems little practical difference between the two non-hunter starts aside from starting assets.  If I want to be a smuggler, I would probably pick Cerberus, unless I want the Mauler.

The Hermes option for trader is bad - you have less burn, and Civilian Hull prevents use of Safety Override, which is critical for outrunning things you cannot fight.

[Serenitis]

If you want to give the player a destroyer to start with, Hammerhead is about as basic as you can get can.  It has the least mounts for a combat destroyer and just enough power to be effective for its size.

I could live with this. (I don't particularly like the Hammerhead, but I can fly it without looking drunk at least.)
Nothing spectacular for the loadout - Arbalests on the mediums, mortars on the front smalls, vulcans on the back, and harpoons in the missile bays.

Actually... Didn't one of the start options for SS+ give you a Hammerhead?

[Plantissue]

I don't think you can justify a hammerhead as a starting choice. If you truly wanted such an easy start, you can just choose an easy start instead. A hammerhead (D) or a Buffalo Mk II could be interesting. The smuggler start just seems to be a bad honest trader start at the moment. You basically would play the same way. I would like the Hound to be burn speed 11 instead or the Cerberus to be the Smuggler start ship and some other ship be the Honest trader start ship.

[BHunterSEAL]

One thing I always loved about Starsector was how it discouraged savescumming by granting hefty XP following battles which result in the destruction of the player's fleet. I'd like to see bounties earned in defeats paid out as well: faced with the chore of rebuilding essentially from scratch, I typically find myself F9-ing 'squad wipes' by the time I've amassed 4-5 ships. But I hate the idea of rolling back the clock after an epic slugfest fleet action, especially when my ships have inflicted outsized losses on the enemy. Like the XP awards, I think payment of earned system bounty credits would encourage people to continue after a hard-fought defeat. Plus, by helping the player get things back on track following a rout, this should also promote a bit more risk-taking in the campaign.

[Megas]

Starsector used to give experience for ships lost in battle, but that was removed because munchkins like me converted money/ships into XP by either shooting and destroying your own ships (I did this purely for the XP!) and/or sending junk ships (that you either bought or boarded) into a hopeless battle to die.  In other words, losing ships for XP was encouraged once the player could afford it.  To compensate, XP gains were doubled, which were not enough at the time (of 0.65) since there were fewer endgame fleets with Onslaughts and Combat 10 flagships did not give more XP.

I don't think you can justify a hammerhead as a starting choice.

By that criteria, no destroyer is suitable.  The other three combat destroyers are a bit better and have more mounts.  Hammerhead is as low and basic as you can go before you might as well downgrade back to a combat frigate.

Hammerhead used to be the extra Easy ship for bounty hunter in 0.65.  Hammerhead is also the ship used by the player in the tutorials.

[Dri]

No amount of EXP reward is going to convince anyone stick with the loss of 2-3 of their ships. Hell, I'm sure a lot of ppl reload if they lose even a single frigate. You're in the VERY small group of players that would, trust me.

Now if you want to add it to Iron Mode only, well, thats fine by me.

As for the whole solo ship thing... there is not much I can say about that other than the fact that Starsector has always advertised itself as a fleet management game with you being a FLEET ADMIRAL. Super fast solo ship vs entire system defence fleet was beyond broken, fun but broken, and I do not at all miss it. Just look at all the Starsector trailers that have been released - all show larger fleet battles and commanding your AI officers/ships.

[Megas]

@ Dri:  If those are your prized fighting ships, sure.  What I mean is if you have excess money, and you are buying junk ships from markets to force them to restock with new (and hopefully) better ships, then you would send those junky ships you did not want, yet you bought for whatever reason, into battle to die.  After they die, they disappear, good riddance, and you get more XP for your trouble.

P.S.  Also, if fleet battles are to be encouraged, the player needs bigger bounties (from commissions) and limit greater than 25 ships (endgame enemy fleets have more than 25).  So far, the meager commission bounties are mildly profitable only because I solo or chain-flagships for most battles.

Before commissions, I avoided battles with enemy faction fleets (that were not bounties) unless I really wanted the chance to board a ship a greatly desired.  I lost money unless I could solo the whole fleet, but even then, the profit from loot was minimal.

[Plantissue]

I don't think you can justify a hammerhead as a starting choice.

By that criteria, no destroyer is suitable.  The other three combat destroyers are a bit better and have more mounts.  Hammerhead is as low and basic as you can go before you might as well downgrade back to a combat frigate.

Hammerhead used to be the extra Easy ship for bounty hunter in 0.65.  Hammerhead is also the ship used by the player in the tutorials.

That's right, I don't think any destroyer is suitable as a start ship. Any combat destroyer would be too easy. That why the ones I suggested the ones which could be interesting.

[Megas]

The point of a (basic) combat destroyer is for those who do not like frigates to start the game with something bigger that is cheap but effective.  Mule, Gemini, or other destroyer-sized ships have firepower no better than a frigate and are too slow to run away from enemy frigates.

Personally, I do not mind starting with a solid combat frigate, but there are others who dislike twitch-y frigate combat.

[BHunterSEAL]

Wow, I had no idea ship loss XP gains were done away with, I guess what I'm seeing are what would have normally accrued based on combat performance. I keep seeing huge gains after battles that cost me a ship or two, but that's probably just coincidental with the amount of killing my fleet would be doing in a battle of that scale. It's too bad that mechanic was removed, but it sounds like a relatively easy exploit to address--maybe scaling XP gains based on ship size vs. player level--so it may be something that comes back in the future as the campaign is built out.

Also definitely agree that commissions could use an income boost, ideally something that ramps as the player levels.