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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: 0.7 feedback  (Read 40783 times)

Cik

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Re: 0.7 feedback
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2015, 08:22:46 AM »

supplies are mostly an issue i feel because of the fickle nature of bounty/trade profits. they are very random, so if you are an onslaught at the head of a large cruiser detachment and the 300k+ bounties dry up for even a little stretch of time you can't maintain your fleet supplywise except on enormously expensive mass purchases from fleet bases. (like jangala) CR is fine as a mechanic and is actually beneficial if the player isn't the biggest fleet on the block; you can actually pull victories out of impossible situations by jumping fleets that are low CR from back-to-back battles.

supply use is really heavy though. bounty fleets are the only way to get reliable payouts, enough to sustain a large fleet, and they dry up in the midgame because of the investigations and because sometimes you will get unlucky with who is putting them out and how much they pay.

but CR is lifeblood for pirates, because it allows you to fight disproportionately well against targets that are low CR, or lower max CR. once you have an elite wolf it's a net benefit for you, because no one can hang out in a battle as long as you can without suffering malfunctions, and because every now and then you will run into cruisers that are 20% CR you can pick off for huge payouts.

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Alex

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Re: 0.7 feedback
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2015, 09:23:52 AM »

(@frag971: Quick question - have you tried the "easy" difficulty? That gives you 50% more supplies and other loot from salvage.)
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Dri

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Re: 0.7 feedback
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2015, 09:45:34 AM »

So the gist of this thread seems to be that players just want an arcade game where the only thing they have to worry about is how big their guns are and what ships they choose to play with; anything that involves strategic planning and thought (CR, sensors, making due without the exact ships/weapons you want) is too much to handle. Gotcha.

Poor Alex, I suppose this is side effect of having the game stay a particular way for a solid year - players get too used to how the game was and fail to realize that the game still has some large changes ahead.
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Cik

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Re: 0.7 feedback
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2015, 10:06:23 AM »

the other thing i should mention is i don't think supplies are the root problem, it's just the money. anybody can just get a freighter or two and have very long legs supply-wise. paying to fill the holds with them is the big issue.
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Thaago

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Re: 0.7 feedback
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2015, 11:19:30 AM »

On supplies: Early game, supplies are tight. Then once you get your first big bounty break/trade run, you are set for life. Just don't over extend. Have a Dram full of fuel and a Buffalo (or 5) full of supplies. Not only do you have the endurance to get through a dry spell, but you can make MASSIVE profits (and trade exp!) whenever you find a market with high supply costs.
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Cik

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Re: 0.7 feedback
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2015, 11:37:44 AM »

i feel the opposite. keeping an elite wolf at high CR is trivial. if you are going to kill high bounty fleets with any surety of low casualties you will need at least a few cruisers, and once you have a reasonable core warship formation of several cruisers/destroyers you eat supplies like mad. even with reasonable leadership supply use reduction i'm still at 80-90~ use a day when rearming, and ~4-5 when at CR cap. i carry around 2300~ supplies on average but filling the holds after a few engagements can cost 100k+ for fuel and supplies. adding in the fact that 150-170k bounty fleets seem far more common than 300k+ (while still forcing me to deploy most of my cruisers) and that 60~% of the bounties are immediately off the table due to investigations, keeping a fleet in good order is not easy.
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Serenitis

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Re: 0.7 feedback
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2015, 11:40:07 AM »

So the gist of this thread seems to be that players just want an arcade game where the only thing they have to worry about is how big their guns are and what ships they choose to play with; anything that involves strategic planning and thought (CR, sensors, making due without the exact ships/weapons you want) is too much to handle. Gotcha.

Poor Alex, I suppose this is side effect of having the game stay a particular way for a solid year - players get too used to how the game was and fail to realize that the game still has some large changes ahead.

To be fair, as technically amazing as 0.7 is, 0.65.2 was a fair bit more fun to play.
Less complexity, no hassle regarding finding or avoiding things, factions didn't automatically hate you for carrying boxes with a different colour than thiers, and the whole thing was just far more accessible.
In my (incredibly biased) opinion 0.7 would have been incredible if it were 0.65.2 with battle joining, officers, and cargo missions added to it. But again, opinions and preferences etc.

Maybe things will change? Maybe we'll get used to 0.7 and wonder what we were ever talking about? Who knows....
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Abradolf Lincler

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Re: 0.7 feedback
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2015, 11:42:46 AM »

I don't know if I'm the odd one out, but I love the complexity, I don't like my games being shallow, I want them to make me think. For me .7 is the best update so far(Except for those ******************************** Investigations)
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Cik

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Re: 0.7 feedback
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2015, 11:51:45 AM »

i really like sensors, complexity etc. .7 is my favorite version of the game no question. just a few kinks to iron out.

maybe people get the wrong impression though, i spend most of the time complaining.
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Toxcity

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Re: 0.7 feedback
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2015, 12:21:34 PM »

I find 0.7a more enjoyable. In previous versions it was still fun, but I was never in any danger unless I did something incredibly stupid. Now I find myself using commands I would've ignored previously (like retreat).

On the other hand Faction Ties Investigations are real bad. If it were constrained to the Hegemony and Tri-Tachyon or if your allied faction decreased market prices it would be okay. Right now though it just limits sources of money without anything to counteract it.
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orost

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Re: 0.7 feedback
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2015, 12:31:07 PM »

I find 0.65 more enjoyable at the moment but this is purely a matter of content, not mechanics. It's difficult to find enemies to fight and things to do with all the great new mechanics due to the current "minimum viable content" policy, but mods will completely solve this. 0.65 with mods > vanilla 0.7 > vanilla 0.65, and I'm sure 0.7 with mods will utterly destroy all three. I can't wait to see what modders do with the new mechanics.
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Nimaniel

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Re: 0.7 feedback
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2015, 12:56:36 PM »

- Allies' deployed forces count against your deployment limit. I jumped into a massive pirates versus Diktat fight, only to find that I couldn't deploy anything but a single Sunder. Really frustrating in big fights when you're not able to help out with anything more than a small ship.

I haven't tried it, but if you increase the battle size setting from 200 to something significantly higher, this is a non-issue, yes/no? Can do it in-game. Just click Settings from the menu and then hit the settings tab at the top. Also, you can deploy your ships as the battle progresses, assuming friendly ships (including allies) are being blasted to space-dust.

Quote from: kazi
- It's unclear which factions tolerate an inactive transponder and which do not. Maybe add a sentence or two to the faction description in the intel screen?

Someone posted in another thread that the Sindrian Diktat didn't care if you had your transponder on. Turned out to be not true. As far as I know, all the major factions care (ie., all except Path and Pirates).

Quote from: kazi
- It's unclear where you can and can't be detected by other fleets. I'm going to guess that the sensor ping-ish lines say this, but I'm not sure. Maybe add a pop-up hint at the beginning of the game?

Sensor lines show the detection range that the opposing fleet has against your fleet at any given moment. If the opposing fleet does an active scan, the lines will sweep out. If you turn off your transponder or you go dark, you will see that opposing fleets sensor lines collapse (because your sensor profile becomes smaller). This is why you have to lower your sensor profile before the detachment you are trying to sneak past does an active scan.

Quote from: kazi
- It took me awhile to figure out that turning on/off a transponder took two clicks, whereas everything else on the skill bar only takes one. Everything on the skill bar should be only a single-click to activate/deactivate.

Personally I disagree on this point. I prefer it the way it is. It is critically important that you do not turn your transponder on or off by accident. Particularly if you are playing iron mode.

Quote from: kazi
- Food shortages seem to be a net credit loss in most cases. Sure the rep and exp are nice, but I'd like to at least have a small profit too?

There seem to be a number of very low value trade goods in the game that serve little purpose until we get industry implemented. Maybe food is one of them, but I agree.

Quote from: kazi
- The intel map gets really cluttered really quickly. Just get rid of completed events instead of keeping them on the intel map and even adding an EXTRA icon to say that the event has been finished and keeping both icons. We also don't need a little "$" sign every time we collect a bounty.

Agree 100%. The whole intel map icon thing is a bit innovative, but has not turned out too well.. yet. A little more 'how can I quickly and easily find the info I need' and a little less 'how can we make this super nifty' would be nice.


Re: Trade missions
===========================================================================================
Quote from: kazi
- Most of the trade missions are a net credit loss

Not sure if it's most, but yeah, some missions expect you to deliver goods for prices that are far below the average price. I would like to eventually be able to set filter and various things, like e.g. missions. For the time being I would be happy if we just narrowed the price ranges slightly (get rid of the 100% guaranteed loss missions, and maybe curb the huge profit ones a bit).

Quote from: kazi
- It takes like 3-4 clicks each direction to flip between the trade and mission screens

Yeah, I find myself flipping back and forth between them a LOT as well. Really does beg for a UI improvement here.

Quote from: kazi
- Speaking of missions and travel time, there's really no way to know how long it takes to get anywhere

It's old-school, but there is actually a map size indicator in light years if you look at the intel screen (lower left). When you know your burn speed, you can estimate travel time.

Quote from: kazi
- There's no way to figure out where stuff is in a destination system.

This has been brought up before. Considering we already have some full conversion mods, I have to agree that we really need this feature sooner or later. Preferably sooner. New years resolution, Alex? ;-)
===============================================================================================

The good:
===================================================================================
Quote from: kazi
- Terrain implementation is fabulous.

+1

Quote from: kazi
- The new ships are great. I can't believe that smuggling in a Mudskipper is actually a viable way to play.

The Mudskipper has a civilian hull, which gives it double the sensor profile of a non-civilian frigate. I would recommend Cerberus/Hound, or Mule if you go big. My current smuggling playthrough used a phase frigate and 2 mules for the first 1M$.


Nice post Kazi.  :D
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Alex

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Re: 0.7 feedback
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2015, 01:04:16 PM »

(Just wanted to drop in here and say thank you for all your feedback! And to say again that while I'm not able to respond to stuff as much as I'd like, I'm very much staying on top of it as far as reading everything. Well, almost everything; I'm sure a few things manage to slip by, but it's not for my lack of trying.)
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Gothars

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Re: 0.7 feedback
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2015, 01:31:15 PM »

(Thank you for staying in touch with the community so much! Also, why are we talking in brackets?)
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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

Arranging holidays in an embrace with the Starsector is priceless.

Alex

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Re: 0.7 feedback
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2015, 01:33:55 PM »

(I think I'm rather too fond of parentheticals. I guess in my mind it means that what I'm saying isn't particularly on-topic, more of a "let me interject with something but please carry on" kind of thing.)
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