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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: So no talk about the new weapons, huh?  (Read 22315 times)

Dri

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Re: So no talk about the new weapons, huh?
« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2015, 08:57:38 AM »

I think the lances, Phase and now Tachyon, are more about the burst now rather than sustained output. :P Phase lance range to 1000 would be inline with other beam weapons but g-damn would it be a frigate sniper at that range!

Will the Tachyon keep its massive EMP load?
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: So no talk about the new weapons, huh?
« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2015, 09:07:07 AM »

It's not doubled damage, Megas, it's trippled.  The new Tachyon Lance does 1500 energy DPS for a total burst of 2250 energy and 1500 EMP, and costs 3000 flux total to fire.  In addition, assuming the on-hit doesn't change, EMP arcs do a total of 15000 additional EMP damage and 3750 energy damage, for a combined distributed burst of 5250 damage and 16500 EMP (808 DPS) if it doesn't hit a shield.
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Cycerin

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Re: So no talk about the new weapons, huh?
« Reply #32 on: October 15, 2015, 09:28:05 AM »

Will be the best top-down weapon in the game, as in, a Paragon with 2 turreted Lances will be disproportionately good at killing ships that are weaker than it.

Inverse is a weapon like AM Blaster or Reaper which allows a weak ship to potentially kill a much bigger, stronger ship.

I might have toned down the damage and flux on it a bit
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Megas

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Re: So no talk about the new weapons, huh?
« Reply #33 on: October 15, 2015, 09:35:01 AM »

The double damage referred to a previous post before Alex made his about Tachyon Lance.

I know the upcoming damage is triple over current 0.65.  (Less than triple if we take flux supercharge from pre-0.65 into account.)  Currently, DPS is 100, and Phase Lance is a little over 200.  Burst only matters for overwhelming shields or killing something when you need it, and it enables vent spamming, but over a fight that lasts ten seconds or more, DPS is more important because a lone ship needs maximum DPS to kill as many ships before CR times out.

I have played with Tachyon Lances often since 0.6, and they were only good for fooling the AI, shutting down mooks from long-range, or (occasionally) allowing the Sunder (and few other mod ships) to kill Dominators and Onslaughts from behind without risk (but it took ages to do so).

300 DPS for Tachyon Lance seems disappointing, if its OP cost will remain at 32 OP, especially if it will become outranged by Gauss Cannon and matched by many of the best lesser weapons.

P.S.
@ Cycerin:  Have you tried stacking eight Phase Lances on a Paragon?  It is effective and fun, and it fries many ships very quickly.  But it has one fatal weakness:  Enemy with Fortress Shield.  Eight stack phase beams are no match for Fortress Shield.  Also, phase ships are a pain to fight because the beam damage is not applied instantly, unlike blasters.  I imagine new Tachyon Lance will simply be Phase Lance * 1.5 + chain EMP.  Eight Heavy Blasters on the other hand, demolishes everything sooner or later, and quickly.  Phase cloak does not help much, and Fortress Shield delays the inevitable.
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Dri

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Re: So no talk about the new weapons, huh?
« Reply #34 on: October 15, 2015, 09:35:11 AM »

If Phase Lance is gonna be nonstandard beam range and stay at its 600 then, for the sake of "flavor", perhaps the Tachyon Lance should be boosted to 1200 range and take a slight damage reduction, say + 150% or 175% rather than 200%. The Tachyon has always been well known in Starsector for its crazy long range so it is kinda hard to swallow the huge range nerf - 1200 range would at least bring it to the level of the Gauss Cannon.
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Megas

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Re: So no talk about the new weapons, huh?
« Reply #35 on: October 15, 2015, 09:41:50 AM »

As long as beam range is not universally 1000, I would like Tachyon Lance to have 1200 or 1500 range minimum.  It should be able to outrange all weapons without Advanced Optics, if its OP cost remains exorbitantly high.  Otherwise, it may be better to stick with more efficient weapons like any medium energy weapon in 0.65.
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Solinarius

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Re: So no talk about the new weapons, huh?
« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2015, 02:28:07 PM »

Perhaps TL should be unable to target frigates. It's a very large and clunky weapon, after all. Boosting the damage wouldn't be such a big deal, then.

1000 range is a hard sell for a weapon that has so much 'hype' surrounding it in the lore, particularly regarding its long reach. Ridiculous, actually. I mean, that's part of its character, right?
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Megas

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Re: So no talk about the new weapons, huh?
« Reply #37 on: October 15, 2015, 03:11:04 PM »

Agreed, perhaps the new Tachyon Lance should be renamed Heavy Phase Lance and a new weapon should simply be the original Tachyon Lance (except less range if it was 10k).  The original TL did not have chain EMP, right?

Tachyon Lance with only 1000 range does not seem like Tachyon Lance, but a completely different weapon.
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Gothars

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Re: So no talk about the new weapons, huh?
« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2015, 03:15:42 PM »

Without commenting on the speculation about new weapons, from the as-yet-unpublished dev changelog:

Quote
Tachyon Lance: range reduced to 1000, damage increased by 200%, flux use increased by 100%

Seems as if you're establishing a new beam subclass with these lances. Jolly good! Now I want a small one even more :)


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ArkAngel

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Re: So no talk about the new weapons, huh?
« Reply #39 on: October 15, 2015, 10:38:57 PM »

Without commenting on the speculation about new weapons, from the as-yet-unpublished dev changelog:

Quote
Tachyon Lance: range reduced to 1000, damage increased by 200%, flux use increased by 100%

Seems as if you're establishing a new beam subclass with these lances. Jolly good! Now I want a small one even more :)




You may be on to something there Gothars. Maybe one of the new weapons is a small weapon lance?
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Alex

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Re: So no talk about the new weapons, huh?
« Reply #40 on: October 15, 2015, 10:46:42 PM »

1000 range is a hard sell for a weapon that has so much 'hype' surrounding it in the lore, particularly regarding its long reach. Ridiculous, actually. I mean, that's part of its character, right?

It was; but the lore's been adjusted :)

I mean, I hear what you're saying, but the whole "super long range direct-fire weapon" thing just really didn't work well gameplay-wise, and the TL change is an acknowledgment of that. The Phase Lance, on the other hand, worked out quite nicely, and so that was a natural direction to take the TL in.


To shamelessly distract everyone from the retconning: the Hammerhead's 4 small turret slots are now "hybrid", meaning they can mount energy and ballistic weapons.
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: So no talk about the new weapons, huh?
« Reply #41 on: October 15, 2015, 11:04:04 PM »

the Hammerhead's 4 small turret slots are now "hybrid", meaning they can mount energy and ballistic weapons.
Praise be to Ludd!
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Gothars

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Re: So no talk about the new weapons, huh?
« Reply #42 on: October 16, 2015, 01:10:47 AM »

Oh, a new mount type! That will make the Hammerhead much more interesting. The Conquest's medium energy mounts could use the change too, I've always found it difficult to put something worthwhile in there.
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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

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Schwartz

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Re: So no talk about the new weapons, huh?
« Reply #43 on: October 16, 2015, 01:55:21 AM »

Look at it from the other side: Putting hybrid slots everywhere is really just a band-aid for a lacking Energy weapons lineup. I'd rather see more Energy weapons so this does not become an issue.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 01:58:01 AM by Schwartz »
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Tartiflette

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Re: So no talk about the new weapons, huh?
« Reply #44 on: October 16, 2015, 02:15:25 AM »

Look at it from the other side: Putting hybrid slots everywhere is really just a band-aid for a lacking Energy weapons lineup. I'd rather see more Energy weapons so this does not become an issue.
It's more a solution to the universal mounts being very difficult to balance due to their ability to mount missiles. Hybrids mounts can be more common like the universals were intended. Mid-tech ships were supposed to be the most versatile ships due to having access to the best of both the Ballistic and the Energy weapon lineups, at the cost of having neither the armor of low-tech or the shields of high-tech.
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