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Author Topic: Hyperspace Terrain  (Read 37181 times)

Alex

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Hyperspace Terrain
« on: September 20, 2015, 03:37:57 PM »

Blog post here.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2015, 03:43:11 PM by Alex »
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Hopelessnoob

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Re: Hyperspace Terrain
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2015, 03:41:26 PM »

So excited for more blog posts might mean more Patch notes soon?! and maybe an update soon?
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Alex

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Re: Hyperspace Terrain
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2015, 03:44:23 PM »

So excited for more blog posts might mean more Patch notes soon?! and maybe an update soon?

Yeah, I'll probably post a patch notes in the near-ish future. As far as the update, I've got a specific timeframe in mind, but you know how it is. If I told you, I'd be in deep trouble with my boss. Might even get fired.
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MShadowy

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Re: Hyperspace Terrain
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2015, 03:48:16 PM »

Oh my, yes.  I definitely like the sound of the Hyperspace storms; I'd be interested in a seeing a wider variety of Hyperspace phenomena but the Storms are definitely and interesting place to start off.  Good way to play off risk/reward as well by making the safe routes nice and slow.
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: Hyperspace Terrain
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2015, 03:49:21 PM »

"revamped campaign fleet generation (both composition and spawning)"

Care to elaborate?
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Foxer360

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Re: Hyperspace Terrain
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2015, 04:00:04 PM »

New weapons? Oh boy, time to see what you and David have thought up! Also, yesssss, bring more assets for the art grinder know as the Spriter's Judgement Thread! >: D

Thanks for the blog post Alex, it's really exciting to see what's looming ahead! (It's shame that the hyperspace waves never worked out this update...)
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Gothars

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Re: Hyperspace Terrain
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2015, 04:05:44 PM »

The deep hyperspace nebula and path concept sounds like it works perfect towards the goal of herding AI fleets on more predictable routes. Is the AI aware of those paths and the danger of storms?  This all sounds very exciting :)

A spontaneous idea about the waves: the player could generate them himself by dropping a (costly?) special device into a star. That would do away with the time to find vs. travel time benefit tradeoff. Could be used to travel or to wash unwelcome visitors away.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2015, 04:12:42 PM by Gothars »
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Alex

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Re: Hyperspace Terrain
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2015, 04:10:23 PM »

"revamped campaign fleet generation (both composition and spawning)"

Care to elaborate?

The basic API stuff all works the same. Basically, just wrote a new method that generates a fleet, with officers, from a bunch of parameters (combat strength, cargo/tanker/etc presence, etc) and used it everywhere to generate fleets. The changes in spawning were to weigh spawning certain (not all) types of fleets more if they'd be closer to where the player is. And just some basic changes to the fleet-spawning scripts. Again, not a change in the API or core code, but in the code using it, like EconomyFleetManager and other such.

(Also added a "doctrine" section in .faction files that has some parameters that feed into this fleet generation. But, again, it's not something a mod is forced to use.)

The deep hyperspace nebula and path concept sounds like it works perfect towards the goal of herding AI fleets on more predictable routes. Is the AI aware of those paths and the danger of storms?  This all sounds very exciting :)

Currently not, they just plow right through. It's on my todo list, but not at a super high priority - it seems to work out alright already.

A spontaneous idea about the waves: the player could generate them himself by dropping a special device into a star. Could be used to travel or to wash unwelcome visitors away.

Hah, believe it or not, actually considered that very thing :) Definitely not a "core" design thing, though.
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Alex

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Re: Hyperspace Terrain
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2015, 04:11:48 PM »

(It's shame that the hyperspace waves never worked out this update...)

Yeah, it kind of is, but hey. It's not like they were *good* and didn't work out, they just seemed good and then turned out they weren't. Shame I ended up spending a fair amount of time on 'em, but so it goes.
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Megas

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Re: Hyperspace Terrain
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2015, 04:50:08 PM »

Hopefully, "a complete overhaul of the 'food shortage' event" means that food gets treated like any other hot commodity in trade disruption, or least something less silly than a reputation trap for those who do not know how to game it.
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SafariJohn

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Re: Hyperspace Terrain
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2015, 05:07:45 PM »

Hyperspace storms look awesome! :D

You could put hyperspace waves and snaky paths together to get hyperspace currents/rivers/rapids/whatever - areas where you get pushed in a certain direction. Would achieve go faster and reliable while still being interesting. Like earth rivers they could shift position and change speeds, too.

IMO, the AI understanding terrain is pretty important. I remember there was some MMO space game where there was an area with a ton of stars that slowed you to a crawl. There were speed boost stations around the edge of the area that allowed you to go by in a few minutes, but the AI ships didn't know about them and plowed right through the center of the stars. I think it took at least half an hour that way. (I know this because I followed the AI my first time there. :-[)


Edit: If I'm reading this right, then if you are in open space you can spot people in deep space before they spot you. Interesting.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2015, 05:11:47 PM by HartLord »
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TheDTYP

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Re: Hyperspace Terrain
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2015, 05:23:51 PM »

My first response upon reading the blog post (and about the hinted-at new feature), after the "YAY! NEW STUFF!" was "DAMMIT!!! The update is further off than I thought, UGGGGGGHHH!!!" But then I took the time to actually think about the situation and I've come to the conclusion that the new update, however far off it may be, is gonna be awesome. I don't think we've ever had an update this big.

The news that, strangely, caught my attention, however, was the new stuff like the weapons, ship, and faction and whatnot. We haven't had fresh stuff like that (Content, not mechanic-wise) since the Ludd people, if I recall. Very exciting stuff, keep up the good work, Alex!
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SQW

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Re: Hyperspace Terrain
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2015, 06:12:15 PM »

Why not just borrow some sci-fi stables.

I've always thought hyperspace is like Warhammer 40K's Warp minus the demons. Just have jet streams going across the map at random set points and allow it to deviate a little (like pouring down a thin stream of water down the shower wall). Add in warp storms etc and all the random factors would require players to pay attention during travel while not guarantee the same result every time.
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Cycerin

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Re: Hyperspace Terrain
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2015, 06:20:16 PM »

First new weapons in a long time. I like that.
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Alex

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Re: Hyperspace Terrain
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2015, 06:33:36 PM »

Hopefully, "a complete overhaul of the 'food shortage' event" means that food gets treated like any other hot commodity in trade disruption, or least something less silly than a reputation trap for those who do not know how to game it.

Yeah. Part of it is selling food (and other stuff) will now fill demand for it at a reasonable rate, matching the number the shortage event says is required - the price boost isn't artificial, but due to reduced supply, which selling fills. So overselling naturally brings the price down to where it's not worth it. The related investigations are gone. Basically, the overhaul was a cleanup and simplification type job.

You could put hyperspace waves and snaky paths together to get hyperspace currents/rivers/rapids/whatever - areas where you get pushed in a certain direction. Would achieve go faster and reliable while still being interesting. Like earth rivers they could shift position and change speeds, too.

Yeah. One issue with currents is how to visualize 'em. It's not straightforward at all, and any "obvious" solutions tend to involve an unreasonable number of particles to indicate movement.

IMO, the AI understanding terrain is pretty important. I remember there was some MMO space game where there was an area with a ton of stars that slowed you to a crawl. There were speed boost stations around the edge of the area that allowed you to go by in a few minutes, but the AI ships didn't know about them and plowed right through the center of the stars. I think it took at least half an hour that way. (I know this because I followed the AI my first time there. :-[)

Right, I'm not going to say it's unimportant, but it hasn't been a glaring issue.

Edit: If I'm reading this right, then if you are in open space you can spot people in deep space before they spot you. Interesting.

Yep. I'm still thinking about that, though - might change it to be more like the nebula since it looks similar enough that a different effect might be confusing.


My first response upon reading the blog post (and about the hinted-at new feature), after the "YAY! NEW STUFF!" was "DAMMIT!!! The update is further off than I thought, UGGGGGGHHH!!!" But then I took the time to actually think about the situation and I've come to the conclusion that the new update, however far off it may be, is gonna be awesome. I don't think we've ever had an update this big.

(Fair enough, but! There's actually a good reason that there's some time to work in an "extra", which shouldn't cause a delay compared to when it would release minus said extra. And I think it's a preeeetty cool "extra" at that, assuming it works out. More, I will not say :-X)


I've always thought hyperspace is like Warhammer 40K's Warp minus the demons. Just have jet streams going across the map at random set points and allow it to deviate a little (like pouring down a thin stream of water down the shower wall). Add in warp storms etc and all the random factors would require players to pay attention during travel while not guarantee the same result every time.

Well, hyperspace storms are more or less that, right? The thing is finding which ideas work well, which, as demonstrated by the wavefront thing, can be aggravatingly non-obvious before trying stuff. Plus I wanted to do a minimal version - the smallest amount of mechanics/terrain that does the job. It's cleaner and easier to build on that way, from adding in AI awareness to adjusting it later if need be.

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