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Poll
Question: What do you desire most?
More ships - 66 (61.7%)
More weapons - 31 (29%)
Something else? - 10 (9.3%)
Total Voters: 107

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Author Topic: [0.7.2a] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.1.2 - Updated 1/10/17  (Read 79264 times)
MesoTroniK
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« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2015, 11:08:28 PM »

Thank you for the feedback Jonlissla.

Being able to convert vanilla ships is a cool feature, albeit a bit expensive. I'm guessing you're supposed to board and capture ships for the feature, and not buy vanilla ships yourself since you'll be paying effectively twice.

The higher your relationship is with the faction the lower the fee is to convert ships, but yea if you want to do it on the cheap capturing is the best way. And since you can save D ships like this hopefully it makes boarding such vessels much more tempting.

The Not-Gemini looks a bit goofy with its medium missile slot once you put something on it. It sticks out a bit too much. Would be better if the slot were closer to center of the ship, like it's for the original Gemini.

Unfortunately to recess the (medium ballistic) slot on that ship would require a significant sprite redesign, but it will be mulled over.

Also, does the Not-Enforcer ship system actually work, or am I just plain bad? I know it says 40% better flux dissipation but I never really notice it when used in combat, except the ship starts glowing red.

As Dr said the system gets worse with every use, more specifically it works as such.
The vessel's flux dissipation is boosted by 50% -> 40% -> 32% -> 26% -> 20% -> 16% -> 13% -> 10% -> 8% -> 7% of the base dissipation rate each use.

It most assuredly works Smiley

   
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Soren
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« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2015, 12:28:26 AM »

I'm enjoying the hell out of these guys. They're clumsy, but if you get sloppy and let them catch up, expect to get the stuffing beaten out of you.

I can see this becoming a staple for me; being able to recover (D) variants like this is just too helpful.
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« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2015, 01:50:39 PM »

It looks like they have enough frigates and destroyers. 4 of each is a respectable number for a faction.

I want to suggest another ship: a dominator conversion.

Tiandong is about heavy ships, and a dominator is the definition of heavy.

A dominator with 3 large slots? Yes please!
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 02:15:13 PM by Sabaton » Logged
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« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2015, 04:14:15 PM »

A Tarsus modification with both cargo arms removed to fit two forward-locked hardpoints. Optionally, a Condor conversion that has one flight deck arm and one forward hardpoint.
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MesoTroniK
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« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2015, 04:53:07 PM »

It looks like they have enough frigates and destroyers. 4 of each is a respectable number for a faction.

I want to suggest another ship: a dominator conversion.

Tiandong is about heavy ships, and a dominator is the definition of heavy.

A dominator with 3 large slots? Yes please!

How deliciously evil... The MEGA BRICK. That thought has crossed my mind, but I suspect David is going to do a sprite overhaul of that ship at some point but we shall see Smiley

A Tarsus modification with both cargo arms removed to fit two forward-locked hardpoints. Optionally, a Condor conversion that has one flight deck arm and one forward hardpoint.

The Tarsus isn't a bad idea, the Condor on the other hand is a little bit strange. As lore wise it would be a conversion of a conversion and the faction already has two destroyer sized carriers as well.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 05:43:58 PM by MesoTroniK » Logged

The Soldier
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« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2015, 06:43:51 PM »

I just saw this mod today, and -
Damn, that's an impressive banner -
I'll be trying this out later in the week when my studies let off a bit. Smiley I like the Core epoch look of it, there are far too few factions that use those types of ships and even fewer mods that have their factions based around them.  Awesome!
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 06:45:38 PM by The Soldier » Logged

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connortron7
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« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2015, 10:25:37 PM »

Looks great
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HELMUT
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« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2015, 03:23:13 PM »

I just finished my THI campaign in Nexerelin. They're a pretty difficult faction to play, their lack of mobility mean they can't catch their target, even with their immunity to nebulas. It can be very infuriating watching a bunch of fast cruisers doing hit & run tactics on your fleet in all impunity.

The Nanzhong (brawler) is probably the most interesting THI frigate. It's slow as hell so it won't catch anything that don't want to be caught. But at more than 500 armor, they can take it and dish it out so spamming them early game isn't a bad idea. However, like every frigates, they fall off later against bigger threats.

The Laohu (lasher) is closer to an armored shuttle than an actual combat ship. It's not as weak as a Hermes but not as strong as the Lasher. May be interesting for very early game but i'll ditch it at the first occasion.

Not really thrilled by the Luoyang (hound) either. It's a hound, but without the utility of its reasonable cargo. The increased armor isn't worth the loss of speed in my opinion. The PD turret is also gone so missiles are even scarier. With careful piloting it can be an interesting starting flagship as unlike other THI ships, the Luoyang is fast enough to catch its target. But used by the AI? Probably a bad idea.

The Wujun (vigilance) looks like a tempting early game flagship with its single large mount. It's actually pretty damn bad. It's slow, it's fragile (narrow front shield) and doesn't have the flux to properly use its gun, the turret also have a -50% turn rate penalty. Its logistic cost is also significantly higher than its vanilla counterpart. Later on it may be interesting to have a few of those as support ships that can once in a while take a pot-shot at the enemy from afar. The vigilance is arguably a much better and safer option if your fleet need additional fire support.

For the destroyers, i was convinced i'd love the Hanzhong (enforcer). Two large ballistic mounts can't be bad, right? Wrong. I hate it.

Its overall stats are worse than the Enforcer, except for the armor and hull. It's slow and lumbering, waving its turrets helplessly in battle by overloading itself, before dying a miserable death. It's not an Enforcer, it's more like an oversized Wujun, or a weird cousin of the Sunder. It stay afar and fire a few shots before venting, hoping that nothing will come too close.

I found the flux limitations even more painful than the Wujun. It's not possible to mount something like a pair of gauss cannons or Hephaesteus as it will rapidly choke on the flux. There's not much choices outside of the Mark.IX and the new Mauler Battery.

The Tianshui (gemini) also have a hard time convincing me. It's a carrier, which means it compete with the Gemini for this role, and given the Gemini is very, very good, the competition is rough.

The lack of medium missile mount prevent the Tianshui from being an efficient fire support unlike the two other vanilla destroyers carriers. It need to go into the fray to use its guns, which isn't really the place of a carrier, even with the improved armor. The small mounts offer a fairly mediocre PD system compared to the twin medium turrets and drones of the Gemini. Overhall, it feel like a straight downgrade from the original for the same cost.

The other carrier, the Chengdu (buffalo) felt more interesting to me. Even with the additional armor, it's still a Buffalo, so it can't fight, even with its medium energy hardpoint. The good point? It's the cheapest destroyer carrier in the game, but not by that much. Like the Tianshui it can't lobe missiles across the map, so its use is only limited to resupplying fighters. It may have been a useful ship in the old Uomoz mod, where supplies were expensive. But currently? Not really.

THI's medium freighter, the Guandu (mule) is all about surviving. Very good PD coverage and improved armor. Can be an interesting back-bone ship for early to mid game, although with mediocre firepower.

For the cruisers, the Dingjun (venture) is the first and only missile boat of the faction. Unlike the Venture, it's a very mediocre brawler but with four medium missile mounts, it's probably the best cruiser for fire-support. It also have a launch bay, which you'll need because your other carriers are bad. What's not to love?

The other cruiser, the Dong Wuzhang is an interesting one. It does work fairly well as a flagship, not sure about the AI however, didn't found many of those in my campaign. It's also surprisingly fast for a THI ship.

About the capital ships. The Xiakou (atlas) feel like a big Mule, it can fight but it's not a dedicated combat ship. The numerous medium turrets allow it to be refitted as a pretty good long range weapon platform as it shouldn't get in brawling range. A crazy PD boat could work too. Personally, i like to deploy my Xiakou a bit after the rest of my fleet, so it wouldn't end up on the frontline but still would benefit my fleet from its good firepower. Medium Sledges guns are terrific for this.

And finally, the Xu (conquest) Pocket battleship. It's a weird one, the playstyle is a mix between the slippery Conquest and the brawling Onslaught. It is better as an AI ship than the Conquest, due to being more survivable and not requiring weird broadside maneuvers to fire its guns. The Xu is actually the only choice for THI as a back-bone ship. It felt reliable and tough enough for me to let the AI pilot it.

As a flagship however? It's a bit of an oddity. Like the Conquest, i dislike wasting half of my OPs with useless weapons on a side of my ship, so i went with an asymmetrical build at first.


It's not as maneuverable as the Conquest though, even with auxiliary thrusters. showing this side to the enemy also give them a huge profile to shoot at.

My other build was better at dueling with other capital ships.


Being mounted on the hardpoints, the 2 Mjolnir can't catch frigates as easily as the other build. However the profil is much thinnier, making it very good at dodging some projectiles. It also felt more maneuverable than the broadside version. It can brawl but it's much better when sitting at the edge of the target's range and slowly pounding it with the Mjolnir.

It's also with this build that i discovered how good the burst flak cannons were. Possibly a bit too good. It clearly lack the raw damage of the vanilla version but the pushing effect is incredible against bombers, pushing them out of their original trajectories. It's not a weapon for killing, it's more about preventing the enemy to reach you, and it does it damn well. Slow ships with large profile are usually terrified by Piranhas, but not with those guns.

I don't have much to say about the fighters, maybe when i'll try a dedicated carrier fleet. Never found a single armored drone though.

Overall, i think the faction is on the underpowered side. Nothing insurmountable but the destroyers/frigates make early/mid game quite difficult. Especially the Tianshui that just can't compete in any way.

Also a request : is it possible to add a subtle sound effect to the flux override system? Something similar to accelerated ammo feeder?

They're not as flashy as the other high-tech factions but i think they're a worthy addition to a game, even as enemies only.
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Tartiflette
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« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2015, 04:27:45 PM »

Pretty much matches my own feeling, it's an interesting AI faction, but for the player I'd only pick a ship or two in a mixed fleet, because pure Tiandong ones don't fare very well. As for the Xu, I had an interesting time with one that had a Storm needler in the central mount, Mauler batteries in the fronts, maulers (or Hellbore once I got to tech 10) in the sideway larges, PD and flak in everything else, and of course ITU to compensate the lack of speed boost. That worked pretty well in most circumstances under AI piloting, while I flew a Sunder and overloaded the targets.
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MesoTroniK
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« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2015, 05:23:32 PM »

That is some great feedback, all noted carefully.

I will have a balance and quality of life patch out very soon, no ™ involved.
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Serenitis
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« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2015, 03:10:38 AM »

I like this mod. It has just right feel of a group struggling to make the best of what little they have.
The single best feature though is the ship conversion - I sincerely hope some form of this mechanic gets adopted into vanilla, because it is beyond wonderful.
(Also, Shaanxi is probably the single most gorgeous object in existence.)

Possible ideas for future ships:

Not-Dominator Mega Brick (As noted)
Multiple large turreted mounts, not a lot of PD.

Not-Tarsus
No longer a freighter, but more of a heavily reinforced hull coated in a solid block of armour with a pair of breaching arms on the front with grappling claws for boarding.
Much less cargo space, much more crew space, cruiser level hull and armour, 1x medium and 4x small ballistic turret.

Not-Wolf
Large energy hardpoint, nothing else.

Not-Buffalo II
Are conversions of conversions a thing? Because you see these ships everywhere and it would be cool to have some use for them (even if it ends up being gimmicky hijinks).
SS+ gave us the Bull, which turned the B II into a giant mediocre gun.
THI could give us the Not-B II, as a (barely) mobile platform for lots and lots of bees missiles.
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Tartiflette
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« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2015, 06:18:22 AM »

Not-Buffalo II
Are conversions of conversions a thing? Because you see these ships everywhere and it would be cool to have some use for them (even if it ends up being gimmicky hijinks).
SS+ gave us the Bull, which turned the B II into a giant mediocre gun.
THI could give us the Not-B II, as a (barely) mobile platform for lots and lots of bees missiles.
Heh, give the buffalo 3 medium missiles, witness the monstruosity you created bring ruin and destruction to the sector, run for your life from every THI fleets ever ><
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MesoTroniK
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« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2015, 04:50:48 PM »

Not-Buffalo II
Are conversions of conversions a thing? Because you see these ships everywhere and it would be cool to have some use for them (even if it ends up being gimmicky hijinks).
SS+ gave us the Bull, which turned the B II into a giant mediocre gun.
THI could give us the Not-B II, as a (barely) mobile platform for lots and lots of bees missiles.

Currently...

        CONVERSION_TABLE.put("buffalo", "tiandong_chengdu_Hull");
        CONVERSION_TABLE.put("buffalo2", "tiandong_chengdu_Hull");
        CONVERSION_TABLE.put("ssp_bull", "tiandong_chengdu_Hull");

If that Not-Buffalo II happens (I love that idea by the way) then only normal Buffalo would be converted into the Chengdu, and the MK.II and Bull would be converted into the Buffalo MK.III.
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MesoTroniK
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« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2015, 08:24:19 PM »

Evening everyone, here is a quality of life update for THI. It contains buffs, a nerf, general balance improvements, a little bit of polish, some minor art improvements here and there, and a new fighter wing.

Dadao-class assault bomber (non retrofit design)




So go ahead and grab the new version from original post and if you have any comments or suggestions please let me know.

Changelog
1.0.1

- Added Dadao-class assault Bomber.
- Xu acceleration increased to 20 from 15, deceleration increased to 15 from 12, max turn rate increased to 6 from 5, turn acceleration increased to 5 from 4, max flux increased to 17000 from 16500, flux dissipation increased to 700 from 650, and its engine visuals were adjusted slightly.
- Xiakou insignificant changes to some of the turret arcs for better handling of SS+ dynamic variants.
- Wuzhang ordnance points decreased to 50 from 55, Dedicated Targeting Core hullmod is now built-in, and its variant was adjusted.
- Tianshui hitpoints increased to 4500 from 4200, armor increased to 350 from 300, supplies/day decreased to 4.5 from 5, max speed increased to 50 from 45, deceleration increased to 15 from 12, max flux increased to 2700 from 2600, flux dissipation increased to 180 from 160, and and its small turret arcs were increased to 360 from 180 degrees.
- Chengdu supplies/day decreased to 3.25 from 3.5.
- Hanzhong fleet points decreased to 10 from 11, supplies/day decreased to 4 from 4.25, max speed increased to 55 from 50, deceleration increased to 20 from 15, max flux increased to 3750 from 3500, and flux dissipation increased to 225 from 200.
- Wujun fleet points decreased to 5 from 7, armor increased to 250 from 200, supplies/day decreased to 2 from 2.25, added built-in rear facing Bulwark Flare weapon (quasi second ship system), flux dissipation increased to 160 from 150, and its variants were adjusted.
- Nanzhong max speed increased to 95 from 90.
- Luoyang max speed increased to 170 from 160, flux dissipation increased to 130 from 120, its medium turret arc increased to 200 from 90 degrees, and its sprite was improved.
- Laohu supplies/day decreased to 1.25 from 1.5.
- Hefei assault fighter's Annihilator Rocket Rack weapon burst delay reduced to 0.2 from 0.25 and its sprite was improved.
- Armored Mining Drone sprite was improved.
- Yiling sprite was improved.
- Flux Override ship system sound effects volume increased.
- Burst Flak Cannon and Bulwark Flares AOE push force decreased to 10 from 30.
- Shaanxi star texture improved.
- Added Shaanxi star to the possible background elements for the random battle missions.
- Monopoly mission was rebalanced.
- Fixed minor mistake (no gameplay implication) with some of the missions.
- Added 5 ship names.

--

Anyways what is next on my list is some new ships so please vote in the poll and make any suggestions on what you would like to see as well if it is not listed there.
Also, I really should get around to updating Exi soon Smiley
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Jonlissla
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« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2015, 03:24:26 AM »

A SS+, II and Tiandong update on the same day?

Cycerin was right, the Mod Mafia is real.
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