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Author Topic: A quick hello and a friendly place in SC  (Read 15811 times)

Thaago

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Re: A quick hello and a friendly place in SC
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2015, 08:00:56 PM »

Woah... it looks like a cool game, but is it pay to win? Because I don't really want to have to pay 100 copies of SS worth...
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Verrius

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Re: A quick hello and a friendly place in SC
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2015, 08:29:43 PM »

Woah... it looks like a cool game, but is it pay to win? Because I don't really want to have to pay 100 copies of SS worth...

There is no denying the immediate advantage someone will have if they initially bought into a good ship, although there are a few things to consider. The ships we're talking about are not available in this iteration of the game, and are not likely to be available until it is basically released. For the current iteration, you can get the better ships such as the F7C-M Super Hornet through in-game rental credits (REC). Once you pick it up with REC, you can renew the term for a discount, so it's somewhat easy to maintain a loadout. You can also get better weapons through the REC system. I have not had any difficulty maintaining my Loaner Hornet's loadout with just a little casual play, a regular Hornet model via REC plus the gear wouldn't be a tall order.

I play mostly Vanduul Swarm, which is Co-op vs AI. In that case, like Warframe it really doesn't matter to me if someone has better stuff since we're all in it together.

When the game eventually comes out, people will be starting with potentially better ships but that is where it ends. You will have to earn the ships in game, although players can still buy a set number of in-game currency per month. The system is intended to help people who might have little time, but still want to stay at least somewhat competitive. It will not be enough to replace playing the game. The benefits of buying the ships are really just given to the people who backed the game before it comes out. Considering how long the game is hoping to be alive, the advantages would quickly disappear.

My recommendation? If you are interested, get this. The Mustang is a blast to fly, albeit a little fragile. If you want to try the Aurora, there is a system in place that lets you swap it for free and back as many times as you want. The Aurora is the other starting ship. For $45.00, I would say the existing iteration of Star Citizen is worthwhile. Getting the end product at this price is icing on the cake. Just a warning though, the game is very demanding. You can visit this page and use the GAMESCOM2015 code to try it out free until 8/24/2015, IIRC.

Sproginator

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Re: A quick hello and a friendly place in SC
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2015, 03:21:40 AM »

I was thinking about picking up a Redeemer too, Looks like a beautiful ship! :)
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Verrius

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Re: A quick hello and a friendly place in SC
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2015, 04:37:32 AM »

I was thinking about picking up a Redeemer too, Looks like a beautiful ship! :)
It really is. If you haven't been following the development, you may not be aware that the Redeemer was designed by a group of backers. They did a large-scale competition where multiple teams entered to create a ship for the game based on set criteria. The winner would have the ship put into the game, among other awards/compensation. The result was the Redeemer, an armed-to-the-teeth dropship intended for hot-dropping marines into combat zones.

As a result of the fact it came from a separate group, I'd say it looks particularly unique but still fitting.

Xareh

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Re: A quick hello and a friendly place in SC
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2015, 05:37:50 AM »

Thr 890 is nice anf for a while I was ready to melt my Vanguard and Connie for one. It's basically a super Connie.
However a dev told me that it's not nearly as defensible as many believe... A Vanguard would eat it alive, it doesn't qualify as a hard target, just a big one.
That and it's totally dwarfed by the much cooler, and equally as liveable Banu Merchantman. I'm a little biased though... And they massively undercharged for it. Should be a $400+ ship nowadays.
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Sproginator

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Re: A quick hello and a friendly place in SC
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2015, 10:19:29 AM »

Thr 890 is nice anf for a while I was ready to melt my Vanguard and Connie for one. It's basically a super Connie.
However a dev told me that it's not nearly as defensible as many believe... A Vanguard would eat it alive, it doesn't qualify as a hard target, just a big one.
That and it's totally dwarfed by the much cooler, and equally as liveable Banu Merchantman. I'm a little biased though... And they massively undercharged for it. Should be a $400+ ship nowadays.

The amount of money that can be spent without realizing is quite troubling :/
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Xareh

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Re: A quick hello and a friendly place in SC
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2015, 11:10:33 AM »

P2W is a really complicated discussion in SC, and honestly it comes down to this.
1. You are 'pledging' to get ships. In other words, you're basically buying these ships to help fund out the game. Because there is no publisher, the money being made right now is all that matters, no sales quotas.
2. These ships are sold at a much cheaper price than what they will be in game. Tripling or more costs if $1=1,000 UEC (though it may go to $1=10,000 UEC or such). At launch, you will not be able to buy any more ships, but can buy UEC.
3. Buying ships now grants almost nothing unless it's an LTI sale or you just want these ships right now.

Okay, here's where P2W gets actually complicated.
If you balance against P2W, you damage the progression of the PU. Why? Because if a $25 Aurora won't be P2W'd to death by a Hornet, there will never be a reason to go to a Hornet. I don't mean that fully - skill will always matter, but there does have to be a very large semblance that you do not go fighting a Constellation in your 300i. Otherwise, the bigger, expensiver ships suffer terribly.
At the same time, there shouldn't be a 'king' or 'god' ship. Right now we think that'd be the F8 Lightning, followed by the A3G Vanguard.
I was one of many to trade their Super Hornets for a Vanguard, because we thought it was basically going to be a bigger, more expensive version of the SH that did away with the short ranges for high armour, range and firepower at the massive expense of profile and agility. We are now learning it's much more a hunter-killer designed to prey on Vanduul Void Bombers, Retaliators, Frigates, even Destroyers. But the heavy-fighter element has really been lost.
The closest to a 'god' ship we've had as an actually buyable ship is probably the Constellation, which used to actually have many of the features of the Idris Corvette (before THAT got turned into a full frigate) before getting nerfed. It remains absurdly powerful, though it's lost antimatter powerplants and TR6 engines. Nevertheless it also now has counters - like the beastly Vanguard.

Their answer to P2W is quite a great one. There will be roles for your ship, and if your ship is big or does a very complicated/niche/multicrew heavy role (Carrack, Reclaimer, Orion) it costs more. Also rarity factors into cost, rarer ships are more expensive, so a Khartu-Al you had to go out and buy on the border of Xi'an space is more expensive. Your ship has a given role and is a hard counter to another ship if we talk combat, but will also have its own hard counter. In other words, rock paper scissors. They give pretty good lore reasons for sales too, like frontier colony auctions for the Vanguard, surplus sales for the Idris, luxury yacht preorders on the 890 etc. etc. (There is a very strong sense of ship ownership). They rarely if ever sell military grade hardware - the Idris-M and Vanguard being the only exceptions.

In short, if you go into an asteroid field and get jumped by a Hornet, you better be skilled, because short range engagements are where the Hornet is king. But get away, or open the distance, or out turn him, and you'll likely win. A Constellation will beat a Hornet, but a Vanguard will beat a Connie, but a Hornet will beat a Vanguard. Rock, paper, scissors. Every ship has an 'ideal' engagement and target. Beyond that, even the bigger ships are balanced. A Hull E is a monstrously expensive project to run, the Javelin was sold without any systems. You need crew for bigger ships and some idea of where to go... stuff like that.
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Verrius

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Re: A quick hello and a friendly place in SC
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2015, 10:37:57 PM »

Thr 890 is nice anf for a while I was ready to melt my Vanguard and Connie for one. It's basically a super Connie.
However a dev told me that it's not nearly as defensible as many believe... A Vanguard would eat it alive, it doesn't qualify as a hard target, just a big one.
That and it's totally dwarfed by the much cooler, and equally as liveable Banu Merchantman. I'm a little biased though... And they massively undercharged for it. Should be a $400+ ship nowadays.

The Merchantment is 'good value' when compared to the other ships of it's size, certainly. The 890 Jump is certainly no battlecruiser, but aesthetics are very important to me. I have a strong preference towards sleek, attractive ships like the Connie Phoenix and the 890 Jump, it'll be nice to just cruise around and relax in the ship. Part of why I am so excited for the passenger system, since the 890 Jump is primarily a luxury passenger ship.

I never liked the alien aesthetic that much. I am a proud human.

The amount of money that can be spent without realizing is quite troubling :/

Yeah, seriously. Unless you have a lot of disposable income, I would strong advise buying anything more than the starter package, and maybe the FPS Module pass for $5 when it comes out.

Xareh

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Re: A quick hello and a friendly place in SC
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2015, 05:43:01 AM »

The BMM is actually super sleek...

and would probably blow a Constellation in half if you messed with it.


The only issue is... both of those pictures are very old. Nobody has any idea what it looks like now, other than it looks something like that, George Hull (who did the Reclaimer and Orion, as well as the alien Battleship from Battleships and a bunch of Transformers stuff) has taken over the concept, and none of the concept we have reflects the dramatically increased size (which is set to grow again to about 125M-150M long and we have no idea on height and width as it's already one of the widest/tallest). Oh yeah, and it's meant to have a 9,100 M3 cargo hold, fully internalized.

big, bigger, biggest.
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Verrius

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Re: A quick hello and a friendly place in SC
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2015, 11:52:31 AM »

I based my thoughts mostly on the original concept images. It is an attractive ship, but it looks quite a bit more rugged in these. The first image you posted is the first image on the concept page as well, which is higher resolution. It almost appears to have scales, and in the middle it has that cage-looking section which I am not fond of. In the second image of the concept page, you get a clear view of the pointy crown on top. It's clear they can go in a few directions, but if I had to guess they're going to go the alien route.

What kills it for me though, is the concept shot of the deck. It's a beautiful interior, but that type of aesthetic does not appear to me. The big cagey screen, the all-around alien look. The Merchantmen will be a cool ship for me to see around I'm sure, but it doesn't have the look I'm trying to find. It will be without a shadow of a doubt an alien looking ship. Not like the 'halfway' thing they're claiming to pull with the Freelancer.

That I don't wanna run cargo. Cargo size is wasted size.

Xareh

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Re: A quick hello and a friendly place in SC
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2015, 01:51:34 AM »

the alien design is seriously amazing though, esp. when they make it into an 'alien sailing ship' like they say they will. some of the vault images of it make it look like an alien skull. it's also going to be pretty scaly, which i think is great.
weirdly, the deck interior was confirmed a while back to be totally obsolete/useless art, we asked Ben about it and he said 'ignore it'. We now understand that it has a full bridge which... well, yeah.
also the art i posted is very different - the other art has a different profile and much different interior design.

also they've pretty much said you can deck out this thing as a warship and run it like that. this thing isn't meant to run cargo, it's meant to run blockades because you have something very special to sell to a contact or whatever.
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Verrius

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Re: A quick hello and a friendly place in SC
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2015, 02:03:51 AM »

I'm thinking that we're looking for two totally different things in our ships :p. I guess right here we have a good example of what makes that game so interesting. There are a wide variety of great ships that we all can talk over,  chat about roles, debate advantages, etc. I think this variety, as well as the attention to detail is going to be one of the strong points of the game. At the end of the day, we've invested so much into this game because this is the closest we're going to get to going on these adventures in space and we all want to do it our own way.

I guess that's everyone's real fascination with it. It's a very risky thing, but if this game can pull off all of this variety I don't think any other game will ever come close to what Star Citizen is trying to accomplish. The more you think about it, the more stressful that 'If' gets though.

Xareh

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Re: A quick hello and a friendly place in SC
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2015, 07:56:31 AM »

still might melt for that new corvette. Maybe. Looking to drop another $100-500 on it soon... trying to figure out which package to get.

won't melt my bmm ever tho. the Hull C rage was so sweet - it has bigger cargo, much bigger guns, it isfaster, it has armour, and fully internalized cargo, and it was only $10 more! oh yeah, someone told me it was going to be faster than a constellation in a straight line too to allow it to open distance between it and its threats. NICE.

and it'll probably get a lot bigger too. fun fun fun. we suspect it'll end up bigger than the old Idris corvette (140M) because George Hull is making it now and he likes his ships pretty damn huge (Orion and Reclaimer). EVEN better we may see it at citizencon. good times. looking forward to seeing if we keep the aurora sized foreguns or get the turret of supreme death back. either which way, i'm getting an 890 in game but i overall think they're building it out to be more of a status symbol than a 'working' ship. It doesn't have a lot of cargo and its firepower projection is not really that amazing (but it is a totally stunning ship). what i really like about the BMM's design is it's not only meant to be an absolutely genius design that has lasted the Banu for a very long time but it's also meant to be really homely.

Ignore me tho. I'm super biased for the BMM since I run the owner's club org for it :P

for me what excites me more than anything is everyone getting online when PU launches and taking my friends around in my Carrack or BMM to go sightseeing at Goss, Sherman, Crusader etc.
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Verrius

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Re: A quick hello and a friendly place in SC
« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2015, 10:38:48 AM »

Haha, yeah careful now. It's one of those ships that we have the least information on. It's pretty unlikely they would make a ship that is literally better than everything in it's size/price class.

What is this about a new Corvette? I thought I heard about a new ship concept coming up, but I recall it being some specialized role that I have no interest in. If anything I really would like the Avenger variants. I never really cared much for the bounty hunting thing, I'd prefer something a little more well-rounded. The whole bounty hunting system of having cells seems a little odd too, I'm curious as to how that will play out.

Xareh

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Re: A quick hello and a friendly place in SC
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2015, 02:24:20 PM »

The new Corvette is because the Idris got upsized to a frigate so they said 'we'll make a new corvette'. Might see it at the November sale.

Also on the BMM front - a friend of mine made one at the right size and found the cargo hold was over 4,000 metres cubed too small for what CIG has it specced out to be. So it's gonna get a lot bigger.
And on price, it's meant to be $400-600+ now, $250 was the old 'constellation sized specialized ships' like the Retaliator. And the really big tradeoff with the BMM is you have all these great roles but you will never be able to take it further. No mining, exploring, salvaging etc.

And Avenger variants are coming, there are three planned but the Avenger is getting updated first. Apparently they're making the Avenger a bit bigger. On cells, that was for live captures.
New concept was the Hospital ship Endeavour, sort of like an Enterprise without a lot of the more major multicrew features.
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