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Author Topic: Abilities  (Read 48472 times)

Alex

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Abilities
« on: April 21, 2015, 11:11:54 AM »

Blog post here.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2015, 11:15:29 AM by Alex »
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Nick XR

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Re: Abilities
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2015, 11:22:51 AM »

So much new content!  Kudos on the art, simple, visible/obvious, fits with the feel of the game.

xenoargh

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Re: Abilities
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2015, 11:25:05 AM »

Awesome.
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Xeno's Mod Pack

HELMUT

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Re: Abilities
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2015, 11:57:18 AM »

I can totally see the Active sensor burst used in an "Angler fish" tactic. Go in a pirate system and let everyone know you're here, feast on the overly curious pirate fleets and collect the juicy bounties.

By the way, what is the ship represented on the Emergency burn ability? It looks a bit like a Wolf but i'm not sure.
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Hari Seldon

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Re: Abilities
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2015, 11:58:05 AM »

Really exciting to make travelling fun!

The only thing I do not like is if you use Active Sensor Burst to explore for derelict fleets, secret bases, artifacts, etc. over a very large area (eg. an asteroid belt) it would get annoying to have to start and stop over and over again.  I don't know how to fix it.  Probes?  That could mess up fleet cat and mouse unless the probes are very vulnerable to attack or countermeasures.  Coasting with your engines off?  Maybe.  A player skill that takes the tedium out of exploration?  That sounds like the best.

Also I totally want a stealth armor hull mod to decrease my sensor profile.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2015, 12:04:49 PM by Hari Seldon »
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Thaago

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Re: Abilities
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2015, 12:00:50 PM »

Oh man, that just looks incredible!

I'm glad that the burn speeds are going to be more normalized - no more glacial capitals! Interesting that the emergency burn takes fuel and CR - hence supplies, cutting into a trader's profit margin.

The AI behavior is going to be the biggest factor in how much fun this is - I'm imagining things like a patrol fleet, seeing a friendly trader in emergency burn, going over to investigate and make sure they are ok. (Or just responding to a "distress beacon"?)
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Wyvern

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Re: Abilities
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2015, 12:03:05 PM »

The only thing I do not like is if you use Active Sensor Burst to explore for derelict fleets, secret bases, artifacts, etc. over a very large area (eg. an asteroid belt) it would get annoying to have to start and stop over and over again.  I don't know how to fix it.
Easy way to fix that: a mix of pirate fleets and Domain-era automated defenses that make exploration dangerous - Sure, you'll find stuff with a sensor burst... but there's always the danger that stuff will find you, too.  As long as that's a serious risk, I don't think the skill will get annoying to use.
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Hari Seldon

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Re: Abilities
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2015, 12:09:31 PM »

I just thought about the "visceral" WASD vs the "strategic" click to move.

I think click to move already does both extremes of visceral and strategic.  Click your destination and forget for strategic things.  And click and hold down the mouse and move the mouse around to act like WASD visceral dodging enemy fleets, etc.  I still like the pause button even though it disrupts that visceral dodging a bit.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2015, 12:27:43 PM by Hari Seldon »
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TheDTYP

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Re: Abilities
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2015, 12:24:16 PM »

The only thing I do not like is if you use Active Sensor Burst to explore for derelict fleets, secret bases, artifacts, etc. over a very large area (eg. an asteroid belt) it would get annoying to have to start and stop over and over again.  I don't know how to fix it.
Easy way to fix that: a mix of pirate fleets and Domain-era automated defenses that make exploration dangerous - Sure, you'll find stuff with a sensor burst... but there's always the danger that stuff will find you, too.  As long as that's a serious risk, I don't think the skill will get annoying to use.

I second this. I know new ships and general "content" isn't on the roadmap right now, but it would be sweet if in the outskirts of the Sector were Domain... machines? for lack of a better word, that the player wouldn't necessarily be able to control but would pose quite the threat... I dunno, I just liked the idea.

Anyway, I'm loving how this update is turning out. It's awesome that the general mechanics have pretty much fallen into place and that we are now in the "fleshing out" more or less, stage of development. Its exciting! Can't wait until the full game is finally released.
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Alex

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Re: Abilities
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2015, 12:28:55 PM »

Thank you all for the kind words!

So much new content!  Kudos on the art, simple, visible/obvious, fits with the feel of the game.

I'd say less "content" and more "mechanics", though there's certainly some content to exercise the new mechanics, too :)

I can totally see the Active sensor burst used in an "Angler fish" tactic. Go in a pirate system and let everyone know you're here, feast on the overly curious pirate fleets and collect the juicy bounties.

Yep, that could work, provided the pirates thought they were stronger than you.

By the way, what is the ship represented on the Emergency burn ability? It looks a bit like a Wolf but i'm not sure.

You'd have to ask David to be sure, but I'd imagine it's intentionally vague. Would feel a bit odd to call out a specific ship there, since it's a general ability.

Really exciting to make travelling fun!

Hopefully :)

Also I totally want a stealth armor hull mod to decrease my sensor profile.

(Per the previous post, phase ships actually have this built-in. Of course, that's not the same as being able to put it on any ship you want.)


I'm glad that the burn speeds are going to be more normalized - no more glacial capitals! Interesting that the emergency burn takes fuel and CR - hence supplies, cutting into a trader's profit margin.

Yeah. Part of the idea there is to make sure it matters for AI fleets, which generally don't keep track of fuel. Plus it makes sense in-fiction-wise, so that's a nice bonus.

The AI behavior is going to be the biggest factor in how much fun this is - I'm imagining things like a patrol fleet, seeing a friendly trader in emergency burn, going over to investigate and make sure they are ok. (Or just responding to a "distress beacon"?)

Yeah, the AI is going to be super important here. Probably going to take a while to polish it - it's not quite combat levels of complexity, but still.

Interesting point specifically re: going to investigate based on the actions of visible fleets. A distress beacon might be good for that, too. Hmm.


The only thing I do not like is if you use Active Sensor Burst to explore for derelict fleets, secret bases, artifacts, etc. over a very large area (eg. an asteroid belt) it would get annoying to have to start and stop over and over again.  I don't know how to fix it.
Easy way to fix that: a mix of pirate fleets and Domain-era automated defenses that make exploration dangerous - Sure, you'll find stuff with a sensor burst... but there's always the danger that stuff will find you, too.  As long as that's a serious risk, I don't think the skill will get annoying to use.

It's not really meant as an "exploration" ability at the moment; would have to look at it again when that's a thing.

As far as UI flow, you wouldn't have to stop and start over and over. When you use the ability, your fleet automatically slows down, but keeps the destination you'd clicked on, and will automatically speed up once the ability runs its course.


I just thought about the "visceral" WASD vs the "strategic" click to move.

I think click to move already does both extremes of visceral and strategic.  Click your destination and forget for strategic things.  And click and hold down the mouse and move the mouse around to act like WASD visceral dodging enemy fleets, etc.

I think you're right in that once the mouse button is held down it gets closer to WASD-style. I'm just not sure that "mouse held down movement in an inertial environment" would work out well if it's meant to be visceral. Plus, moving the mouse in that mode of control just feels less like you're "in" the game than when you've got direct keyboard control... but that's probably subjective.

(I'm not even sure "visceral" is a good word to use here. Maybe just "responsive"? But that's a good thing always.)


Anyway, I'm loving how this update is turning out. It's awesome that the general mechanics have pretty much fallen into place and that we are now in the "fleshing out" more or less, stage of development. Its exciting!

Yeah, it feels great to be able to knock features out fairly quickly because much of the supporting infrastructure is already in place.

I do kind of feel like the next release might be a bit of a mess balance-wise, though, since we've got a lot of moving parts here. Well, we'll see, and in any event, that's not a huge problem.


Can't wait until the full game is finally released.

You and me both :)
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ValkyriaL

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Re: Abilities
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2015, 12:31:21 PM »

id imagine the sensor burst thingy as something like this (start of the fight)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZfe0T618Vc&feature=youtu.be&t=211

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Hari Seldon

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Re: Abilities
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2015, 12:38:12 PM »

I just thought about the "visceral" WASD vs the "strategic" click to move.

I think click to move already does both extremes of visceral and strategic.  Click your destination and forget for strategic things.  And click and hold down the mouse and move the mouse around to act like WASD visceral dodging enemy fleets, etc.

I think you're right in that once the mouse button is held down it gets closer to WASD-style. I'm just not sure that "mouse held down movement in an inertial environment" would work out well if it's meant to be visceral. Plus, moving the mouse in that mode of control just feels less like you're "in" the game than when you've got direct keyboard control... but that's probably subjective.

(I'm not even sure "visceral" is a good word to use here. Maybe just "responsive"? But that's a good thing always.)

I agree that WASD has less of a learning curve than "mouse held down movement in an inertial environment", but I think mouse held down works if you get used to it because I use it right now.  I use it to dodge better and catch fast pirate fleets more easily than just clicking on them.  I hope that you try out mouse held down and see how you like it :)
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mendonca

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Re: Abilities
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2015, 12:40:27 PM »

Cool :)

I look forward to see how it all eventually pans out - it does seem natural that skills / officers (hullmods / ships?) should grant extra abilities - but I can see how that could end up as gilding the lily if not done carefully.
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Alex

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Re: Abilities
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2015, 12:45:13 PM »

I agree that WASD has less of a learning curve than "mouse held down movement in an inertial environment", but I think mouse held down works if you get used to it because I use it right now.  I use it to dodge better and catch fast pirate fleets more easily than just clicking on them.  I hope that you try out mouse held down and see how you like it :)

Oh, I use it all the time :) By "works out well", I mean something more like "not the ideal way of controlling something for that sort of gameplay" rather than "can't be done well with practice" etc. I do think it does work better and better as things get less hectic, though.

(Again, probably subjective in large part.)


Cool :)

I look forward to see how it all eventually pans out - it does seem natural that skills / officers (hullmods / ships?) should grant extra abilities - but I can see how that could end up as gilding the lily if not done carefully.

Yeah! I've been writing down some ideas along those lines, but whether they come to fruition depends on whether they help solve specific design challenges. (Also, hey, new expression I haven't heard before, learned something today.)
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Nanao-kun

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Re: Abilities
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2015, 12:47:26 PM »

Those looks great. I can't wait to see how the next update will look, even if it will take some time.
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