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Author Topic: My thoughts on a few things.  (Read 3691 times)

Axiom

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My thoughts on a few things.
« on: May 10, 2015, 01:47:13 PM »

I have recently taken this one back off the shelf to see how its coming along and enjoy some nice fleet action.
Here are a few of my impressions.

1. CR, supply, and my fat crew.

Fleet supplies per day at full CR: 2

After any battle, even one in which I take no damage-

Fleet supplies per day: 20.
Duration of increased supply usage: 5 days.
Total supplies used: 100.

Since this is the case even when you fight a battle in which not a shot is fired, maintenance cannot possibly cover the majority of this supply cost. Am I really being forced to feed my crew something like 27 meals a day for 5 days just for the privilege of having them man the combat stations for 2 minutes? I guess this explains why crew is so *** at boarding operations. They can't fit through the airlocks!


2. Rallying the defenders!

I definitely feel we need time to pass at some rate in the rest of the game while in combat, coupled with the ability for enemy and allied fleets to join an ongoing battle.
(yes, I know this or something like it is in the "frequently suggested" post. don't flame me.)

Distress signals for fleets that call nearby allied fleets to their aid, particularly patrol fleets of the same faction.

It is a bit silly that 1 fleet can fly in and destroy fleet after fleet and the patrol fleets are either blissfully unaware, or incapable of actually doing anything due the offending fleet being un attackable for x amount of time after being in a battle, and them being unable to jump in and help during a battle. As far as I can tell all patrol fleets do is blunt invasions a bit so the response fleets can clean them up a bit easier. And that's when they aren't just running for their lives.


3. Those fat fighters, And short range PD weapons.


I really think fighters are way too big. I never invest in PD weapons because its just too easy to turn the big guns on the little ships and turn them into space dust. In battle they don really feel like fighters, so much as groups of small underpowered frigates.

The PD weapons are also typically very short range and not even that effective against fighters (with a few notable and IMHO extremely inefficient exceptions).

I Think fighters should be significantly shrunk, (I'm thinking around terminator drone size) and should be like Missiles in regards to auto weapons. (aren't targeted without the PD mod or PD weapons.) Also I think the weapons on fighters should be shorter ranged, and higher damage. I feel the shorter ranges would give more meaning to short vs longer ranges on PD weapons. and the higher damage would justify actually devoting ordinance to PD.

I also feel fighters should be much faster and more maneuverable but have much less hull/armor ratings in comparison to what they have now. PD weapons as they are, are about right for killing missiles, but are really bad at eating through fighters at any reasonable rate. (with some notable exceptions.)

As fighters now stand I don't even hesitate to field a large lone capital ship against a fleet of fighters, because I know those fighters are never getting through my shields, and I can absolutely just kill them with my heavy guns.
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Gothars

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Re: My thoughts on a few things.
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2015, 02:04:12 PM »

1. CR, supply, and my fat crew.

Supplies are used for every repair and maintenance task in the fleet, not just for feeding your crew. Food is probably just a tiny percentage of it. You can see how many supplies will be used for deployment at the bottom of the deployment selection window.

3. Those fat fighters, And short range PD weapons.

Fighters are actually closer to the "camera" than all other ships, that's why they can pass over them. When fighters dock on carriers you can actually see then descent and shrink to about half their apparent size. Anyway, fighters have to a certain size so you can actually differentiate them from each other.
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Xanderzoo

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Re: My thoughts on a few things.
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2015, 02:06:00 PM »

I agree with the second point, but disagree with the others.
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Axiom

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Re: My thoughts on a few things.
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2015, 03:25:58 PM »


Supplies are used for every repair and maintenance task in the fleet, not just for feeding your crew. Food is probably just a tiny percentage of it. You can see how many supplies will be used for deployment at the bottom of the deployment selection window.


Fighters are actually closer to the "camera" than all other ships, that's why they can pass over them. When fighters dock on carriers you can actually see then descent and shrink to about half their apparent size. Anyway, fighters have to a certain size so you can actually differentiate them from each other.

I understand that supplies are used for all of that, and I am a fair hand at managing my fleets supplies. That's why I pointed out that

Quote
Since this is the case even when you fight a battle in which not a shot is fired, maintenance cannot possibly cover the majority of this supply cost.


I should point out I am not attempting to bash the CR system, I just feel the CR recovery is steep to the point of crippling. I would rather have a higher base supplies per day than an unreal CR recovery cost/time. Just fielding one fleet action is so prohibitively expensive I have to grind in some games for HOURS just to build up the supply base to enjoy one single fleet fight.


As for the fighters, I was somewhat aware that they were blown up from actual size. but my point is the size they are defeats their purpose. they get mowed down by weapons that should have no legitimate right to expect to ever land a hit on them.

Would it not be possible to give fighter wings a sensor tooltip that identifies them while allowing them to be a more effective size?
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orost

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Re: My thoughts on a few things.
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2015, 03:53:28 PM »

How on Earth do you play the game? In my experience supply costs are moderately important at most in the very early game and become completely irrelevant after half an hour into a campaign. If your fleet makes any sense at all, it should be able to crush a bounty fleet that will pay out 10 times more than what it cost you to deploy it. You should be floating on millions of credits by the time you have a large fleet.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 03:57:14 PM by orost »
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Pushover

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Re: My thoughts on a few things.
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2015, 04:10:56 PM »

I imagine that battles are fought on a different timescale than real time. It's probably slower than the campaign map, but a 2 minute fight could represent a 2 hour battle. Or even a 2 day battle (although I don't think this is reflected on the campaign map). So the increased supply usage comes from wear and tear on ship systems. Really, it would make sense for CR to constantly degrade throughout the battle. Make a sharp maneuver? CR degrades. Get hit? CR degrades. Shoot guns? CR degrades. But for the sake of simplicity, a flat amount to start is fine, increased in case of very long battles.
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Axiom

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Re: My thoughts on a few things.
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2015, 05:37:01 PM »

I imagine that battles are fought on a different timescale than real time. It's probably slower than the campaign map, but a 2 minute fight could represent a 2 hour battle. Or even a 2 day battle (although I don't think this is reflected on the campaign map). So the increased supply usage comes from wear and tear on ship systems. Really, it would make sense for CR to constantly degrade throughout the battle. Make a sharp maneuver? CR degrades. Get hit? CR degrades. Shoot guns? CR degrades. But for the sake of simplicity, a flat amount to start is fine, increased in case of very long battles.

Yes, I understand this. I am not saying that the system itself is bad, my issue is specifically with the values involved. That is why I called attention to one of many scenarios in which the inflated CR recovery and time cost cannot be due to the reasons you stated.

Since I was clearly too nebulous with my first point ill refine it to a specific suggestion. Fold ship repairs and CR recovery into one mechanic. Then add an after battle system that calculates time spent in battle/total damage sustained to armor/shields/hull/ number of systems damaged (such as by EMP weapons) and spits out a supply cost/repair time value. this would give more incentive to manages ships carefully and avoid carless damage.

As things stand now I have already calculated what a battle will cost me before I even start. I have no incentive to play particularly carefully because ship damage and repair is incidental and almost ignorable compared to the CR recovery costs. Going into a battle where my ships get mostly shredded is almost exactly as costly as micromanaging my fleet to take no damage at all.
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orost

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Re: My thoughts on a few things.
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2015, 04:10:16 AM »

Taking hull damage already massively increases CR costs (and therefore recovery cost and time) of a battle, on top of the cost of repairing the damage itself (if it overruns the CR recovery time). You have plenty of incentive to avoid taking damage.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2015, 04:16:23 AM by orost »
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Megas

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Re: My thoughts on a few things.
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2015, 07:30:33 AM »

As things stand now I have already calculated what a battle will cost me before I even start. I have no incentive to play particularly carefully because ship damage and repair is incidental and almost ignorable compared to the CR recovery costs. Going into a battle where my ships get mostly shredded is almost exactly as costly as micromanaging my fleet to take no damage at all.
Taking significant hull damage drastically increases CR deployment cost after the end of the battle.  This is when CR and hull bars tend to have comparable percentages.

This is (partly) what I mean by "hull and CR have blurred to the point that having both as they are is unnecessary" and "CR is effectively battle damage for me".
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