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Author Topic: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 488720 times)

Histidine

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1020 on: November 22, 2015, 06:03:38 AM »

A solution for early-game woes for newbies:  Give a special, player-only bonus to sensor range and burn speed in Easy difficulty only, and tell them in-game to play Easy.
Hmm, or perhaps make AI fleets not use Emergency Burn in Easy?
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BillyRueben

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1021 on: November 22, 2015, 06:05:50 AM »

I'd leave that in. Easy should at least attempt to prepare you for a normal game (even if the player never wants to play normal), and removing features would make the transition back to the "full" game pretty jarring.
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Ghoti

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1022 on: November 22, 2015, 06:24:58 AM »

It's funny. When I started playing, the first minute of the game I got bushwhacked by a pirate and it felt totally unfair.

I've been playing for 2 hours so far and It's only happened one other time...

BTW, have you tried a trader start? Trader start is super hard. Bounty hunter start is super easy.

The intel screen is showing too many uninteresting trades. There are too many icons that I can't tell what icon applies to what system. The commodities market has a flat buy sell spread plus tariffs. This requires an absolute minimum of double the price to break even on a trade, but I'm seeing lots icons for unprofitable trades.

For specific commodities it should show everything of course. If I click 'supplies' it should show all intel on supplies.

As an alternative, maybe draw lines, or maybe make the other icons semi-transparent when you hover over a system? dunno.

also, I wish there was some way I could recover reputation with a faction after I lost it. Independents caught me smuggling (at the start of the game, as a trader, when I absolutely had no money and was desperate, no less), and now no independents will deal with me or give me missions and I can't recover with them. That's super harsh... Honestly I'd rather just turn myself in and face the music for a few months/years, because I really needed the independent missions.

anyway. Starsector has retained it's reputation of being a brutal game to get started in, but it's still heaps of fun. Loving the new officers. Loving the missions. Loving loving loving loving loving the expanded battles.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2015, 08:01:22 AM by Ghoti »
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1023 on: November 22, 2015, 06:28:20 AM »

Players not familiar with all of the features will be run down by enemies using Emergency Burn.  Sometimes, big gigantic fleets.

Just remembered something:  Because of your limited sensor eyesight, I chased down and caught a lone one or two pirate scout fleet, only for it to turn into a big ball of death because I did not see one or two pirate attack fleets nearby (lone Wolf has poor eyesight).  At that point, I would need to flee or die.  (I chose to reload the game.)

@ Ghoti: I started as bounty-hunter because I am a warmonger.  It is much harder to find easy fights than before, even with Hegemony support.
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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1024 on: November 22, 2015, 07:43:30 AM »

OK, I'll have to say some things about the Gryphon.

The ship is fine, but the system... it's just awful, really. The problem are the CR costs, 15% for one use, respectively 25 supplies. The AI uses it liberally, for example, if the medium and big launchers are almost full but the small ones are empty, the system will be used. Regardless of enemy strength or overall tactical situation, as it seems. That means that deployment costs for the Griffon are totally unpredictable, they can vary between 20 and as much as 170(!) supplies. That in turn means, you don't want to deploy it, except in emergencies where you absolutely can't win without it.

And it's not only costly, but also counterproductive in battle. The system gets used even if it gets the ship into malfunction CR levels. I just tested it in the simulator against two consecutive Enforcers, the Griffin used its system twice and brought its CR from 44% down to 14%, crippling itself.  That was a fight it could have won more easily without using the system at all, its flux didn't even get high at any point.

Third problem is if the ship is under player control, the system still doesn't handle well. There's no refractory period between uses, and barely any audiovisual feedback for use, it just doesn't feel consequential. The sound is the same as for the Fast Missile Racks system, further adding to this illusion. You can easily spam it several times in a row without even knowing what you're doing to your ship.

This also means the system is extremely abusable if costs don't matter/you don't notice them. At high CR you can launch about 160 Harpoons within 30 seconds, or your front slots alone can launch about 50 reapers within a few seconds. That is basically turning the system into an "I win!" button in many situations.


As a consequence, I think that the ship, the system and the game balance would be far better served with a classical long time delay between system uses and the abolition of its CR cost. (Some sparks or movement on the grated part on the ships back to show that the system is currently working/reloading would also be a nice touch.)
« Last Edit: November 22, 2015, 08:17:31 AM by Gothars »
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Clockwork Owl

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1025 on: November 22, 2015, 07:50:43 AM »

A solution for early-game woes for newbies:  Give a special, player-only bonus to sensor range and burn speed in Easy difficulty only, and tell them in-game to play Easy.

Serenitis explains why early-game is harder:  The enemy is or almost as fast as you and you often cannot see them in time before you can run away.
Couldn't just increasing mutual detection range overall do it? To give them enough time to react. For most cases, a couple of seconds will do.
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JP161

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1026 on: November 22, 2015, 08:05:35 AM »

Noted. I'll take a look.

I mean, it's supposed to be expensive - a tradeoff for boarding being a sure thing - but not at that ratio, at least mostly not. The thing that's odd here is getting a Lasher with only 2 crew defending it, that shouldn't be possible and means something else messed up.

(Actually, getting 0 crew should *really* not be possible; "2 crew" is the fallback case when that happens. Yeah, definitely need to look into it.)
I recently lost 20 marines boarding a Hermes class shuttle that had 0 crew... I had 50 marines and it did show a 100% chance of capture. Losing a marine or two to some unforeseen accident or maybe some automated defenses or something I could see happening, but certainly wasn't expecting to lose 20 marines against a derelict Hermes. :D

Other than that... Start certainly felt harder, but after one full restart (and "several" quick loads....), now I'm flying a fleet of 8 ships, including four Wolf frigates, three Mule (D) -transports (thanks for the shielded cargoholds!) and SO Hammerhead (with Heavy Autocannon + Assault Chaingun, 4 LMG's and two Hammer torpedoes and Auxiliary Thrusters & Unstable Injector) that just demolishes everything... Also 150k spending moneys.

Great job as always! :)
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Aklyon

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1027 on: November 22, 2015, 08:10:58 AM »

OK, I'll have to say some things about the Griffin.

The ship is fine, but the system... it's just awful, really. The problem are the CR costs, 15% for one use, respectively 25 supplies. The AI uses it liberally, for example, if the medium and big launchers are almost full but the small ones are empty, the system will be used. Regardless of enemy strength or overall tactical situation, as it seems. That means that deployment costs for the Griffon are totally unpredictable, they can vary between 20 and as much as 170(!) supplies. That in turn means, you don't want to deploy it, except in emergencies where you absolutely can't win without it.

And it's not only costly, but also counterproductive in battle. The system gets used even if it gets the ship into malfunction CR levels. I just tested it in the simulator against two consecutive Enforcers, the Griffin used its system twice and brought its CR from 44% down to 14%, crippling itself.  That was a fight it could have won more easily without using the system at all, its flux didn't even get high at any point.

Third problem is if the ship is under player control, the system still doesn't handle well. There's no refractory period between uses, and barely any audiovisual feedback for use, it just doesn't feel consequential. The sound is the same as for the Fast Missile Racks system, further adding to this illusion. You can easily spam it several times in a row without even knowing what you're doing to your ship.

This also means the system is extremely abusable if costs don't matter/you don't notice them. At high CR you can launch about 160 Harpoons within 30 seconds, or your front slots alone can launch about 50 reapers within a few seconds. That is basically turning the system into an "I win!" button in many situations.


As a consequence, I think that the ship, the system and the game balance would be far better served with a classical long time delay between system uses and the abolition of its CR cost. (Some sparks or movement on the grated part on the ships back to show that the system is currently working/reloading would also be a nice touch.)
Ack, does it really work that badly in AI hands? I wasn't going to complain about the CR cost since it was basically me trading supplies for more missiles, but by all means change the cost if the AI does that badly with it! I'd prefer keeping the ship around over having to store it away if I ever get a different ship I want to command from.

Also yes, if you don't know about the cost of the system you can easily ruin your new cruiser midfight. I had to reload when I found that out.

Euqocelbbog

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1028 on: November 22, 2015, 08:49:04 AM »

Gryphon stuff

Very much agreed, when I first tested it out I tried the ability once in the sim and then never used it or allowed the AI to pilot the ship. Tying ability use to something like CR degradation just does not work out simply because it heavily punishes the pilot for using the system. Interestingly, the ship and ship system descriptions both never mention anything about CR degradation but do emphasize a supposedly massive flux cost which in reality is very minor.
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Serenitis

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1029 on: November 22, 2015, 08:50:39 AM »

As I get further into the game, I find that the speed parity and boosts matter less and less as I become more able to fight.
Game starts hard and gets.... Easier ???

Maybe an "attraction" mechanic would work?
The more ships you add to a fleet the more likely it is to be targeted by randoms.
Civilian ships add more than military, and bigger ships add more than smaller ones.
tl;dr - The smaller your fleet the less you get hassled.

And having easy mode start the player in a destroyer would save a ton of frustration and headaches as getting past that hurdle makes everything a lot more managable.

These contracts are the most brillant troll ever.
Deliver x tons of y to place z in 10 days for a bajillon credits.
Cool. I've done that before.
You do the trip, no problem. Pull up to the planet, and moments from docking *BA-BUM* you failed. Here's your -10 rep.
Well played, just well played.... :P

RE: Griffin
Get rid of supply and CR costs for the ability.
Add a complete shutdown for a few seconds - engines, weapons, shields, the whole of everything. OR max out the flux of the ship on use.
And a fairly long cooldown so it's used as a reloader rather than a spam device as mentioned above.

Or y'know, just make make all missiles regenerate anyway. :deadhorse:
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gruberscomplete

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1030 on: November 22, 2015, 08:59:37 AM »

ALEX!!!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHH!!!

I'm disappointed I tell you!

I wanted this update to be just .65.2a with expanded battles. The new UI and polish is fine, but it is less arcade-y and less fun kind of. I like big massive battles with lots of stuff.

So maybe have easy mode be just .65.2a with expanded battles, and normal mode be the current version of the game?
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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1031 on: November 22, 2015, 09:38:45 AM »

Just as random tip to whom it may concern, I just increased how far you can zoom in on your ship in battle via settings.json, and its amazing! I love seeing all those details on the sprite clearly now :)
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1032 on: November 22, 2015, 09:53:05 AM »

Still playing my first game.  Just made it to 10/10 (level 36+).  I do not have quite enough money to get everything I need (about 200K, so far), and my fleet is mostly frigates plus Medusa, Enforcer, and Mule.  I have no backup ships.  A fleet wipe would be catastrophic (if I did not reload the game).

So far, the difficulty is still inverted, sort of.  It starts brutally hard, and stays hard longer.  By the time things get easier, faction ties become a problem.  I have a window to get things done before factions become hostile.  Once factions become hostile and pirate bounties get tougher, difficulty spikes again.  While I have the skills, I do not yet have the ships and weapons to solo faction fleets.  I do not know if the game will get easier once I am able to kill faction fleets.

Overall, difficulty past early game is hard because it is much harder to obtain choice ships and weapons (because factions do not like you enough).  In 0.65, it was relatively easy to get everyone who mattered to like you and you can take your time building up your assets.  It is much harder, if it is possible, to do so now.
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Cycerin

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1033 on: November 22, 2015, 10:01:05 AM »

I finally saw a Phase Lance, but I haven't seen a single IR Pulse Laser in all my runs so far. :(
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1034 on: November 22, 2015, 10:07:41 AM »

Gryphon stuff

Very much agreed, when I first tested it out I tried the ability once in the sim and then never used it or allowed the AI to pilot the ship. Tying ability use to something like CR degradation just does not work out simply because it heavily punishes the pilot for using the system. Interestingly, the ship and ship system descriptions both never mention anything about CR degradation but do emphasize a supposedly massive flux cost which in reality is very minor.
I on the other paw have never seen my AI use it! I will note though that I'm using an aggressive officer and had reapers in the smalls.
But I comletely agree with the others, the CR cost is not only hidden, it can make the ship cost more to deploy than it should!
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