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Author Topic: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 488725 times)

Spoorthuzad

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #855 on: November 20, 2015, 01:35:34 PM »

has any of you guys seen the Gryphon yet? haven't found it in any markets or fleets so far, and can't even get it in the Random Battle mission to take it for a test ride either q_q

Yeah i've seen it accasionally in hegemony markets, Couldnt buy it though since my relation was too low

TJJ

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #856 on: November 20, 2015, 01:38:23 PM »

has any of you guys seen the Gryphon yet? haven't found it in any markets or fleets so far, and can't even get it in the Random Battle mission to take it for a test ride either q_q

Nope.

Seen a Kite(A); bought it, got it blown up in the its 1st engagement.  8)
Seen the anti-shield MIRV launcher.

That's about the only rare new stuff I've seen though :(
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Trylobot

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #857 on: November 20, 2015, 01:38:32 PM »

WUBALUBADUBDUB!
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Sy

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #858 on: November 20, 2015, 01:43:28 PM »

Yeah i've seen it accasionally in hegemony markets, Couldnt buy it though since my relation was too low
guess i'll have to get my pirate captain some rep with the Hegemony, then.. i want that ship!

WUBALUBADUBDUB!
are you sure?
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Defertos

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #859 on: November 20, 2015, 02:06:48 PM »

Few things:

The range on "Squall MLRS" seems to be either incorrect or bugged.
It shows the range as 2000, but when fired the missiles seem to "shut down" at 500 and then disappear completely at around 1000 or so range.
(Fired from Apogee with ECCM package just to mention it)

Are smuggling fines supposed to be -80 rep with the faction even from something small like 50 supplies ?.
(I don't remember the exact planet I bought them, but it only had supplies in sale at black market and none in the open if that matters)
Investigation, Guilty and bang. Went from +50 to -30 with independent.

Also since people seem to have issues with the sensors, adding 1 additional help tool tip that explains that the sensor "arc's" around your ship are from other fleets detecting you and that gray means either independent or transponder offline. (And a small note that pirates/smugglers normally fly with their transponders offline)

Named bounties with factions with "Inhospitable" or worse do really need some adjustment.
Doing a 50k bounty for no reward and measly +3 rep kinda gives the feeling that you just got cheated.
How about something like: getting 50% of the bounty and then +rep depending on the remaining 50% ?
(For example if +1 rep would be worth 2.5k,  50k bounty would be 25k money gained and +10 rep)

Other than the above it has been quite an enjoyable ride.

Ps. The hammer torpedo description is pure 10/10.
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The Soldier

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #860 on: November 20, 2015, 02:31:02 PM »

Are smuggling fines supposed to be -80 rep with the faction even from something small like 50 supplies ?.
(I don't remember the exact planet I bought them, but it only had supplies in sale at black market and none in the open if that matters)
Investigation, Guilty and bang. Went from +50 to -30 with independent.
Depending on how much you smuggled in (I think it depends on how many credits worth sold to the Black Market), your suspicion level (as seen when you hover your mouse over the "Black Market" tab).  You can cover this up if you do enough Open Market or Military trades.
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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #861 on: November 20, 2015, 02:39:30 PM »

Depending on how much you smuggled in (I think it depends on how many credits worth sold to the Black Market), your suspicion level (as seen when you hover your mouse over the "Black Market" tab).  You can cover this up if you do enough Open Market or Military trades.

By the way, I think this only works if you first do the black market trading and then the legal trading, without leaving the station in between.
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Sy

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #862 on: November 20, 2015, 02:50:41 PM »

like i've seen others here mention, i also just had two Hegemony patrols bug me about my Transponder right after each other, with taking a rep hit from both. the first one ("Hegemony Fast Picket") told me to enable it, to which i agreed. i believe the 2nd fleet ("Hegemony Patrol") did not have me on their sensors at that moment, but i saw it speeding towards me with "looking for your fleet" shortly after, so it had probably spotted me with Active Sensor Burst while i still had my Transponder disabled.

so it actually makes sense that the 2nd fleet wasn't aware i had already been approached by another patrol, and instead assumed i had sneakily enabled the Transponder on my own to avoid being fined. and that's without them knowingly searching me twice as long as they can get away with it, hoping for some sweet smuggling fines. oh shielded cargo holds, how i love you. they are not getting anything from me, those corrupt jerks! ^^

still, doesn't feel great to be punished twice for one transgression, not to mention confusing when you don't realize what's going on.


also, question on the side: should i post bug reports / feedback like this in this thread here, or make a new thread in the Bug Reports & Support section (assuming there isn't a dedicated thread on the topic already)?
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #863 on: November 20, 2015, 03:10:25 PM »

@Baqar79: Thanks, that helps - it should show casualties there, will take a look.

is there a way (or even an already updated mod) to increase rep with pirates that i'm missing? :/

Doing missions might help - you can take them on at non-pirate markets, and the targets don't have to be pirate markets, either. I'm not sure off the top of my head how much reputation you'll get that way, though. But a pirate start might not be a bad idea, hmm.

It's a (rather dated--WWII era) air combat term for getting attacked suddenly and without warning--ie "bounced by a flight of '109s diving out of the sun." Or, in this case, encountering Pirate / Luddite frigate fleets that seem to come out of nowhere, leaving minimal time for stealth or running away. Makes sense when you're essentially on your own, but by the time you've got a few ships together it could be interesting to have some progression in this area, partially offsetting slower movement. In addition to helping the player rely less on avoidance abilities which disrupt travel and faction relationships, from a 'fluff' perspective I think patrol and screen options could fit nicely with the scope of the campaign, an abstraction for splitting or controlling multiple fleets.

Ah, got it. Yeah, some abilities in this direction might be a good idea. Not quite sure when, but, right.

I've seen this as well, definitely fleets from the same faction. The issue appears specific to cases where the player re-enables the transponder between being detected and intercepted by faction fleets. Merely having the transponder off results in only one interception.

Thanks, that helps narrow it down - wrote it down, will take a look and fix it up.


One thought I'd had is adding a new ability - call it "High Alert" - that would give you, say, +500 sensor range in exchange for increased maintenance costs. But you'd have to know how to utilize that, so, again, not exactly newbie-friendly.
Why having "High-Alert" similar to "Going Dark" but raising your sensor range instead? With half the speed and no CR recovery. And to keep Sensor ping useful, maybe you can make it more long ranged but only in a frontal cone?

Or maybe the opposite: High Alert would halve your speed and maneuverability in campaign, cost some CR and stop the recovery but would double your detection range in a 90 degrees forward cone, as a way to check your path. Ping being omni directional and longer ranged would still be more useful to find a ship gone dark.

Hmm. "Forward cone" things might be awkward because you only have indirect control of that. Suspending CR recovery could work, though. Not sure reducing speed would be productive, since then it's a case of "sure, you see them, but you can't do anything about it".


Is it intentional that the Kite (A) loses the Civilian-grade Hull hullmod of the regular version, but the Buffalo (A) doesn't?
(I think it makes some sense, just checking)

Let's say it's intentional.

EDIT: Also, why do Falcon/Heron and the battlecruisers no longer have a burn speed advantage over their fellows? That used to be among their selling points.

Might look at it again, but there's less room between classes now so +1 burn would be pretty major, unlike before.

The default detection range is pretty small so you can't see fleets until they're almost on top of you, and now that everything can be randomly faster than you whenever it decides it is really easy to get trapped by fleets which are both tougher than you AND faster than you.
Bam. Dead before you even start.
Yes. You can activate the burn thing as well, but you don't even know you need to before some random thing jumps out of the dark at you, plus this introduces a "twitch" element to the game which is a huge reason I like(d) SS - because it doesn't (didn't) have any of those.

It's the combination of really fast enemies which can make themselves faster, and almost zero ability for situational awareness which makes the game far to "hard" for me to consider it even remotely fun at the moment. :(
Maybe if the emergency burn boost thing had a limitation like "can't initiate combat for x amount of time after activating" to prevent fleets from using it to chase things instead of running away from things (like in an emergency) it would be a little less harsh?

Yep, you're definitely not alone in struggling a bit with this. For now, I'd just say that it *is* something you can learn - it may feel unfair (which, honestly, seems like the biggest issue), but it's *actually not* and the vast majority of the times you're caught like that can be prevented. Still, thinking about ways to make this easier, it's not good for such a rough patch to be something you run into right away.


Also, what are these random coloured arcs which bounce around the screen all the time? They're pretty distracting.

I too would appreciate a thorough explanation of their meaning; they're obviously a sensor indication, but:
- Are they showing someone else detecting you, or you detecting someone else?
- Does their position indicating the extent of nearby fleet's sensor range? or is it just the direction that matters?

It's a good system, but the precise meaning isn't completely intuitive.

They're showing the extent of the sensor range of another fleet, when you're near the edge of it. It's useful for when you need to figure out how close you can be to another fleet before it sees you, how much distance you need to gain for it to lose sight of you, etc.

I was thinking of a (or several) big installation that can cover, like, half the system as long as it's active. Hell, simply let it cover the entire area in which a new player is supposed to learn the ropes.
The potential problem is that new players don't understand that they are being helped and overestimate their sensor range. That could be counteracted by clearly stating when a contact is identified with the help of the beacon, e.g. a little text on the target "beacon revealed".

Such a temporary mechanic is the only the thing I can think of to keep the sensors as (super!) interesting to more experienced players without being frustrating to newbies *shrug*

Thinking about this some more, I wonder if simply making "degraded engines" and/or "faulty power grid" double the sensor profile wouldn't do the job. Pirate ships have those hullmods, but most other ships don't, so it's tidy solution contained to the problem case. Assuming that gives enough of a detection range boost to make a difference, that is. If someone's heading towards you at a relative burn of 20, there's not much time to do anything even if you see them at the edge of the screen; the way to deal with it is to avoid that situation in the first place... but I suppose just having the edge in seeing the pirates first would do it. But that requires the transponder to be off, almost regardless of other considerations. I'll definitely try this out, though.


Enemy AI blatantly cheats. It maneuver in ways that are impossible for the player (i.e. ADADADAD spam that magically makes it dance through my shots). It has the ability to go out of map bounds. And it has inhumanly fast reactions and absolutely perfect precision. Phase ships disappear the moment you press the trigger, before your shot even goes off.

Friendly AI is completely ***. I have a big ship and a small ship. Literally all I need the small ship to do is to guard my flank against *** little frigates and fighters. What does it do? Half the time it charges into the middle of an enemy group and dies immediately, the other half it decides to pass in front of me as I'm firing, gets its engines shot up, and dies immediately.

These are extremely serious problems that really need to be fixed ASAP. Especially the AI issues, especially the zig-zagging. Yes, I know I can do it too, but the AI has the reactions and precision of a computer, it's able to lead its shots perfectly no matter how I move. I, on the other hand, am flailing at a keyboard and mouse, trying to pay attention to three things at once, and trying lead my shots on a ship that's dodging and weaving on a screen that's a mess of shots and explosions and that sways with every movement of my ship and my mouse cursor. It's ridiculous.

Hmm. The thing is, AI reactions are not instantaneous or even frame-perfect (though they're pretty fast), its precision isn't exact, and it doesn't always (or even often) lead perfectly. Its maneuvering to avoid shots is veeery far from being perfect, as well - most of the shots you perceive as being dodged by it, it's not even directly aware of.

As for going out of map bounds, it's a bit of an issue that only affects retreating ships, on both sides.

I mean, I can understand being frustrated - especially facing some of the faster frigates, such as the Pather Kite, or the smaller phase ships - but I don't think "AI cheating" is to blame here. I wouldn't personally call slightly-better-than-human reactions cheating, anyway - in most cases, it doesn't result in superior performance but instead barely makes up for not anticipating/planning ahead.

As far as the friendly AI, btw: it's exactly the same AI. I feel like in both cases, it's a question of learning how the systems work and making them work for you. Want an escort that's not aggressive, for example? Put a timid officer in charge. Etc.

That said, thanks for your feedback! It's definitely valuable seeing how someone perceives what's going on, coming from a different place. I mean, "how things work" isn't more important than "how they're perceived", and I'll certainly keep this in mind. I will say I don't assign the same priority to "fixing" this that you do, and am not even clear on what "fixing" it would mean, given what's going on. My apologies; we're just not on the same page here.

I have noticed that my escorts pass in front of me more often when I'm high on flux. No idea if thats true or just what I'm thinking.

IIRC that's right.


WUBALUBADUBDUB!

I'll... take this to be a good thing. Alright then, moving on.


The range on "Squall MLRS" seems to be either incorrect or bugged.
It shows the range as 2000, but when fired the missiles seem to "shut down" at 500 and then disappear completely at around 1000 or so range.
(Fired from Apogee with ECCM package just to mention it)

Thanks, noted - will take a look!

Are smuggling fines supposed to be -80 rep with the faction even from something small like 50 supplies ?.
(I don't remember the exact planet I bought them, but it only had supplies in sale at black market and none in the open if that matters)
Investigation, Guilty and bang. Went from +50 to -30 with independent.

It's a two-month long investigation, and you have an opportunity to influence the outcome by talking to the investigator.

That said, sounds like you got *super* unlucky - first with an investigation for something so trifling, and then with a guilty outcome. Really one in 10,000 or thereabouts. Would've probably cost you 10k credits or so to avoid the unpleasantness entirely.

Named bounties with factions with "Inhospitable" or worse do really need some adjustment.
Doing a 50k bounty for no reward and measly +3 rep kinda gives the feeling that you just got cheated.
How about something like: getting 50% of the bounty and then +rep depending on the remaining 50% ?
(For example if +1 rep would be worth 2.5k,  50k bounty would be 25k money gained and +10 rep)

Well, at that point, you're not doing it for the money but to get back in the faction's good graces. It's not supposed to be profitable.


Depending on how much you smuggled in (I think it depends on how many credits worth sold to the Black Market), your suspicion level (as seen when you hover your mouse over the "Black Market" tab).  You can cover this up if you do enough Open Market or Military trades.

By the way, I think this only works if you first do the black market trading and then the legal trading, without leaving the station in between.

Fairly sure the order doesn't matter, and completely sure that leaving the station in between doesn't matter.

still, doesn't feel great to be punished twice for one transgression, not to mention confusing when you don't realize what's going on.

Yep, I'll look into it.

also, question on the side: should i post bug reports / feedback like this in this thread here, or make a new thread in the Bug Reports & Support section (assuming there isn't a dedicated thread on the topic already)?

Probably better in the bug reports, unless you're not sure it's a bug, in which case it might belong in suggestions instead. But if it's fairly minor, here is fine too. So basically a judgment call :)
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Euqocelbbog

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #864 on: November 20, 2015, 03:22:28 PM »

I feel like the casualty rates for boarding are a little crazy. It always seems like I lose at least twice as many marines as there are enemy crew in any boarding action and at times it's far higher. I just encountered a rather extreme example where I lost 28 marines boarding a Lasher with 2 crew.
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Spoorthuzad

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #865 on: November 20, 2015, 03:24:12 PM »

I feel like the casualty rates for boarding are a little crazy. It always seems like I lose at least twice as many marines as there are enemy crew in any boarding action and at times it's far higher. I just encountered a rather extreme example where I lost 28 marines boarding a Lasher with 2 crew.

I lost 7 marines with no enemy crew...
Completely agree with you here

Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #866 on: November 20, 2015, 03:27:45 PM »

Noted. I'll take a look.

I mean, it's supposed to be expensive - a tradeoff for boarding being a sure thing - but not at that ratio, at least mostly not. The thing that's odd here is getting a Lasher with only 2 crew defending it, that shouldn't be possible and means something else messed up.

(Actually, getting 0 crew should *really* not be possible; "2 crew" is the fallback case when that happens. Yeah, definitely need to look into it.)
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Sy

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #867 on: November 20, 2015, 03:51:58 PM »

losing Marines in a boarding fight against dead crew? it's Space Pirates And Zombies all over again! Dx
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Troll

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #868 on: November 20, 2015, 03:52:41 PM »

Quite frustrated as I keep getting harassed either by large fleets, solo high level pirate or small fleets full of tempests... Adding that I hate the wolf and am not good with the Hound, let's say the stat is very rough for me (be it normal or easy, but always ironman). Mostly suicide runs to get a feel of the new ships, officer AI and market positions up to now.
I'll try tomorrow with a more posed approach.
For now I can only say I really like the transponder and detection mechanics and will try to make better use of it. It just makes the start much harder as you either keep licking the boots of a Hegemony patrol hoping you'll be able to get a shot in (if it even catches a pirate), or keep searching for that elusive 1/2 ship fleet that is not too high tech...which was the rarest thing in the sector on my 2 last runs and less so for the very first.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #869 on: November 20, 2015, 03:58:49 PM »

@Troll: There's pretty much *always* going to be ~4 small pirate fleets in Corvus that have subpar ships, as long as there's a bounty going on. Hopping out into hyperspace now and again for a quick look might be worth it, too - and pirates will sometimes wait around the in-system jumppoint, so you're checking two places at once.

The only ones that might end up with Tempests are smugglers; you might want to stay away from those in general as they have better ships and higher-level officers than regular pirates.

Giving Safety Overrides a try might be worthwhile, too, if you haven't - it changes up the style of play, and it might be more to your liking than the base Wolf without it.
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