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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 574337 times)

Sy

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #825 on: November 20, 2015, 09:18:11 AM »

Noticed Gemini is one of the few destroyers with burn 8 (most have 9).  Now Condor may be a more useful carrier if burn speed is a priority.
oh, i like that! Gemini stats felt pretty overpowered, especially given its described as a civilian ship. with them having less burn speed (which seems to be common among civilian ships now) and the subpar sensors, the Condor's role as the baseline military carrier should become much more solidified, even for player fleets. although the Gemini still retains more actual combat power.^^
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TJJ

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #826 on: November 20, 2015, 09:39:18 AM »

Noticed Gemini is one of the few destroyers with burn 8 (most have 9).  Now Condor may be a more useful carrier if burn speed is a priority.

Yeah, RIP Heron. :(

Maybe burn 8 is intended to be the new burn 9.
Though with space being that much bigger, I'm not sure I want to be moving slower.

I suppose burn 8 being the new 'medium speed' makes the Dominator more attractive. (What was the Dominator's burn speed in 0.6.5?)
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 10:49:53 AM by TJJ »
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Aklyon

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #827 on: November 20, 2015, 10:15:58 AM »

...the heron wasn't new?
I didn't recognize it when i saw one show up in a big heg v pirates fight.
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Sy

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #828 on: November 20, 2015, 10:47:40 AM »

...the heron wasn't new?
I didn't recognize it when i saw one show up in a big heg v pirates fight.
it's newer than most ships, v0.65 i believe. but still been in for almost a year :P
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Serenitis

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #829 on: November 20, 2015, 11:08:45 AM »

Grats on finishing it!
There's lots of very cool looking stuff in here. But....

I'm finding the whole thing to be a bit frustrating tbh.

The default detection range is pretty small so you can't see fleets until they're almost on top of you, and now that everything can be randomly faster than you whenever it decides it is really easy to get trapped by fleets which are both tougher than you AND faster than you.
Bam. Dead before you even start.
Yes. You can activate the burn thing as well, but you don't even know you need to before some random thing jumps out of the dark at you, plus this introduces a "twitch" element to the game which is a huge reason I like(d) SS - because it doesn't (didn't) have any of those.

It's the combination of really fast enemies which can make themselves faster, and almost zero ability for situational awareness which makes the game far to "hard" for me to consider it even remotely fun at the moment. :(
Maybe if the emergency burn boost thing had a limitation like "can't initiate combat for x amount of time after activating" to prevent fleets from using it to chase things instead of running away from things (like in an emergency) it would be a little less harsh?

Also, what are these random coloured arcs which bounce around the screen all the time? They're pretty distracting.

Sorry for being all negative and such.
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hurleybird

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #830 on: November 20, 2015, 11:19:17 AM »

Every XIV hull gains a few ordinance points except for the Falcon, is that intended?
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TJJ

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #831 on: November 20, 2015, 11:24:52 AM »

Also, what are these random coloured arcs which bounce around the screen all the time? They're pretty distracting.

Sorry for being all negative and such.

I too would appreciate a thorough explanation of their meaning; they're obviously a sensor indication, but:
- Are they showing someone else detecting you, or you detecting someone else?
- Does their position indicating the extent of nearby fleet's sensor range? or is it just the direction that matters?

It's a good system, but the precise meaning isn't completely intuitive.
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #832 on: November 20, 2015, 11:26:22 AM »

Also, what are these random coloured arcs which bounce around the screen all the time? They're pretty distracting.
Those are the sensor ranges of other fleets
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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #833 on: November 20, 2015, 11:40:36 AM »

Wow, you can turn of the campaign UI with F11! That's so nice for enjoying scenic views :)

Like the hyperspace storms btw, it's is a interesting choice if you want to go through from the beginning to the end (not that I'm there yet, the game seems longer, thankfully).


Just had an idea about the sensor range sudden pirate newbie trap. How about if there are orbital installations which increase the sensor profile of enemy ships in a radius around them? So not a sensor phalanx proper, more like an echo beacon. Place some in the starting area and pirates/pathers nearby wont surprise the player.

Later on they could be sabotaged by pirates or even the player himself.

Hmm. It's a neat concept (somewhat related, been thinking about nav buoys/sensor arrays in campaign) but is getting caught by pirates right next to Corvus really the problem? It seems to happen more when you're going somewhere, i.e. from Corvus to Barad, or Corvus to the jumppoint, etc.


I was thinking of a (or several) big installation that can cover, like, half the system as long as it's active. Hell, simply let it cover the entire area in which a new player is supposed to learn the ropes.
The potential problem is that new players don't understand that they are being helped and overestimate their sensor range. That could be counteracted by clearly stating when a contact is identified with the help of the beacon, e.g. a little text on the target "beacon revealed".

Such a temporary mechanic is the only the thing I can think of to keep the sensors as (super!) interesting to more experienced players without being frustrating to newbies *shrug*



It's a good system, but the precise meaning isn't completely intuitive.

Mh, found it pretty intuitive...
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SpacePoliticianAndaZealot

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #834 on: November 20, 2015, 11:57:51 AM »

Also, what are these random coloured arcs which bounce around the screen all the time? They're pretty distracting.

Sorry for being all negative and such.

I too would appreciate a thorough explanation of their meaning; they're obviously a sensor indication, but:
- Are they showing someone else detecting you, or you detecting someone else?
- Does their position indicating the extent of nearby fleet's sensor range? or is it just the direction that matters?

It's a good system, but the precise meaning isn't completely intuitive.
Actually it's quite intuitive, at least I've picked it up without a hitch. Arcs are faction-coloured or gray for any minor faction.
If you have transponder on, you should see extended arcs bouncing around, if you have transponder off and you see smal pulsating ones coming from a patrol, it indicates it's sensor activity. If your ship is outside these arcs, you're good. Unless you aren't going dark and/or hiding in a [insert a tiny particle name here] ring and the patrol decides to do a ping. Then, you will beSTOP! YOU VIOLATED THE LAW!
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Aklyon

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #835 on: November 20, 2015, 12:05:56 PM »

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Sordid

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #836 on: November 20, 2015, 12:09:29 PM »

I have to say I'm very disappointed by your failure to fix the long-standing problems. Namely:

Enemy AI blatantly cheats. It maneuver in ways that are impossible for the player (i.e. ADADADAD spam that magically makes it dance through my shots). It has the ability to go out of map bounds. And it has inhumanly fast reactions and absolutely perfect precision. Phase ships disappear the moment you press the trigger, before your shot even goes off.

Friendly AI is completely ***. I have a big ship and a small ship. Literally all I need the small ship to do is to guard my flank against *** little frigates and fighters. What does it do? Half the time it charges into the middle of an enemy group and dies immediately, the other half it decides to pass in front of me as I'm firing, gets its engines shot up, and dies immediately.

Quick load only works on the map. Nowhere else. It doesn't work in battle, it doesn't work in dialog and inventory screens, i.e. exactly at the times when you want to use it. If I get caught by an enemy I can't afford to get caught by, I have to click through the encounter menu, enter battle, exit battle, then finally load the game. Manually, because quick load doesn't work in the main menu either. Yes, the loading times are very fast, but it's a pain in the ass nonetheless.

These are extremely serious problems that really need to be fixed ASAP. Especially the AI issues, especially the zig-zagging. Yes, I know I can do it too, but the AI has the reactions and precision of a computer, it's able to lead its shots perfectly no matter how I move. I, on the other hand, am flailing at a keyboard and mouse, trying to pay attention to three things at once, and trying lead my shots on a ship that's dodging and weaving on a screen that's a mess of shots and explosions and that sways with every movement of my ship and my mouse cursor. It's ridiculous.
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HELMUT

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #837 on: November 20, 2015, 12:19:21 PM »

I think most of the issues you listed will go away as you'll improve while playing. Personally, there's nothing i saw the AI do that i couldn't reproduce. Same thing for my allies, with the right officer and loadout, they have yet to disappoint me.
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Tartiflette

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #838 on: November 20, 2015, 12:23:26 PM »

That's funny because Starsector is one of the few games where the AI has not a single artificial advantage. And the AI is the same for both sides, the only difference is that there is a player on one team...
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 12:36:41 PM by Tartiflette »
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Thaago

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #839 on: November 20, 2015, 12:28:32 PM »

I have to say I'm very disappointed by your failure to fix the long-standing problems. Namely:

Enemy AI blatantly cheats. It maneuver in ways that are impossible for the player (i.e. ADADADAD spam that magically makes it dance through my shots). It has the ability to go out of map bounds. And it has inhumanly fast reactions and absolutely perfect precision. Phase ships disappear the moment you press the trigger, before your shot even goes off.


I think your are mistaken. The AI definitely does not cheat (or at least in this way) - the last time I dug into the code it doesn't even check for threats every frame (long ago it used randomly timed intervals, which is a nice way to add indeterminancy). However, ships, especially frigates, are very nimble - if I'm not dodging more than 50% of incoming shots, I'm doing something very wrong.

If you are having trouble hitting, either put things on autofire or invest in the accuracy/shot speed skills. The AI uses the same autofire plugin code as the player (which we know cause we can replace it if we want).

Quote
Friendly AI is completely ***. I have a big ship and a small ship. Literally all I need the small ship to do is to guard my flank against *** little frigates and fighters. What does it do? Half the time it charges into the middle of an enemy group and dies immediately, the other half it decides to pass in front of me as I'm firing, gets its engines shot up, and dies immediately.


Did you use an escort command? Or otherwise order it to do something? Sometimes the AI charges ahead (hopefully officer AI helps with that, but I haven't gotten first hand testing yet). I will often put an escort command on my main ship to keep us all bundled until things get heavy, and then I remove it to give them more maneuvering freedom.

I have noticed that my escorts pass in front of me more often when I'm high on flux. No idea if thats true or just what I'm thinking. Anyway, consider using your ally as cover instead of shooting them - they will often open up a long enough window for an aggressive vent, after which things are golden.

Quote
Quick load only works on the map. Nowhere else. It doesn't work in battle, it doesn't work in dialog and inventory screens, i.e. exactly at the times when you want to use it. If I get caught by an enemy I can't afford to get caught by, I have to click through the encounter menu, enter battle, exit battle, then finally load the game. Manually, because quick load doesn't work in the main menu either. Yes, the loading times are very fast, but it's a pain in the ass nonetheless.

Well, its more fun IMO without quickload, but thats a personal preference I can't blame you on. Should probably be able to do it from those screens for convenience, yes, but I wouldn't call that a serious problem.
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