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[orost]

On a note slightly similiar to the Lasher thread: wow, those suck. I've been playing some missions recently, and many ships in there come with Sabots. And they're really not useful at all, even in those restricted loadouts.

If you fire one up close, it'll immediately get targeted by PD and shot down before it deploys.

If you fire one from a distance, it'll spread out and most of the projectiles will miss.

Even if it connects, it's very easy for the AI to just drop shields and take it on armor with minimal damage, and because the exact timing of when the sabots deploy is unpredictable, it's extremely difficult to reliably sneak in HE damage during that gap.

Their ammo is very limited, so you couldn't rely on them as your only shieldbreaker even if they were effective.

In short, I don't see any reason to use Sabots on any loadout, ever.

What ideas do you have for a more useful shieldbreaker missile? I'd imagine something that launches at high velocity with good tracking, and before impact explodes into a spread-out cloud of needler-like projectiles. More reliable, because it avoids the awkward hovering of Sabots, and it gives a wider window for shooting because the cloud is a threat to shields for a little longer.

[Xanderzoo]

I agree; Sabots leave a lot to be desired. What I really want is a missile that is essentially an Annihilator that does kinetic damage.

[FasterThanSleepyfish]

I hate to advertise, but my Citadel mod contains the Meteor /Striker missile systems that essentially add annihilator style kinetic missiles. Blackrock also contains such weapons, but I can't recall their names.

[Xanderzoo]

The mod I'm working on has them too.

[Dri]

Yeah, Sabots are terrible.

Very much need a healthy buff or rework such as making them regen. Having each projectile doing 500 (currently only do 200, TERRIBLE!) kinetic damage sounds perfectly fine to me. Ships that rely on their shields usually already have very good shield stats so 200 kinetic is laughable.

Limited ammo missiles should be feared - I don't fear the current Sabots one bit.

[Euqocelbbog]

I feel like giving the sabots an EMP charge in addition to kinetic damage would go quite a ways towards making them useful. EMP would give the target a dilemma as to either keep shields up and sustain kinetic damage or lower shields and risk having weapons disabled.

[Dri]

I feel like giving the sabots an EMP charge in addition to kinetic damage would go quite a ways towards making them useful. EMP would give the target a dilemma as to either keep shields up and sustain kinetic damage or lower shields and risk having weapons disabled.

Thats a good idea. Still, they need to do more Kinetic damage - its quite rare for all 5 projectiles to hit anything smaller than a cap ship.

[Megas]

While the old-style Sabot was not as effective against shields (one 750 damage missile) as today, at least it was a decent unblockable missile when the enemy lost its armor.  Now, sabots are only good to force the AI to lower shields, and do little damage to anything that is not a shield.  This is fine for the single missile version (0 OP with Optimized Assembly).  The rest are a waste of OP.  Salamanders are better support than Sabots, and those regenerate.

[Midnight Kitsune]

I have to agree with the others: Sabots need a MAJOR buff.
Think of it like this:
The harpoon, salamander and sabot missiles all cost the same amount of OP IIRC

• Harpoon: If it hits its intended target (Armor) it severly damages or even destroys the armor at the impact point. Damage is permanent and ammo is limited
• Salamander: If it hits its intended target (Engines) it can leave a ship spinning and stranded without the ability to dodge. Damage isn't permanent but the missiles are unlimited
• Sabots: Even if it hits its intended target (Shields) it can still be ineffective depending on the size of the target. Even if all five projectiles hit, the damage can simply be "vented off" thus making the damage non permanent. However unlike the Salamander, the Sabot DOES have limited ammo AND it has the same amount of shots that the Harpoon has!

[MesoTroniK]

What vanilla needs is a special kind of AI for missiles that release submunitions that aims the shot at an intercept point, that turns this type of weapon into an entirely different beast.

[TJJ]

Massive EMP damage, so you can't just absorb them on your armour without consequence?

[Midnight Kitsune]

Massive EMP damage, so you can't just absorb them on your armour without consequence?

Sooo another Salamander then? No thanks.
The main issue is actually getting the rounds to all HIT the ship in the first place. The reason why they aren't very dangerous is because they are slow and easily shot down, the sub-munitions miss often, they are very limited in ammo, and the enemy ship can tank the hits on the armor. We really need to fix number two and three to make them work right

[Sproginator]

Massive EMP damage, so you can't just absorb them on your armour without consequence?

Sooo another Salamander then? No thanks.
The main issue is actually getting the rounds to all HIT the ship in the first place. The reason why they aren't very dangerous is because they are slow and easily shot down, the sub-munitions miss often, they are very limited in ammo, and the enemy ship can tank the hits on the armor. We really need to fix number two and three to make them work right

Just increase the burst speed of the sabot's projectile, followed by reducing the burst spread of the split

[Dri]

Yeah, on second thought I don't think the EMP is such a good idea - armor is already considered largely inferior to tanking with shields and we really don't want to marginalize it even more. Kinetic damage should remain weak to armor and we shouldn't change that by adding EMP to Kinetic (looking at you, Hypervelocity Driver >:|).

Sprog, even if the targeting was made better I still don't think the Sabot does enough Kinetic damage to warrant its meager limited ammo. Up the sub-munitions damage to 350-400 and then we'll be talking.

[Histidine]

I'd say that since their target (shields) regenerate, Sabots should indeed regenerate too.