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Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Blog post: Skills and Story Points (07/08/19)

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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.4c "Mambo No. 9" (fixes 2019-09-11)  (Read 886000 times)

Blaze

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Re: [0.65.2a] Nexerelin v0.6.2 "ICE ICE Baby" (update 2015-10-24)
« Reply #405 on: October 25, 2015, 03:15:14 AM »

That WAS my intention for allowing that many to spawn, but you can't mine non-gas planets as Histidine mentioned, only moons. Out of 6 systems with 8 planets each, there are about 3 uninhabited moons between the lot of them. The rest are just there for bounty fleets to orbit around.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2015, 03:16:59 AM by Blaze »
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xor0

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Re: [0.65.2a] Nexerelin v0.6.2 "ICE ICE Baby" (update 2015-10-24)
« Reply #406 on: October 25, 2015, 05:20:04 AM »

This is a great mod, makes the alpha version of the game worth playing once you are done with single fleet battling.

One thing: I just played a game where there were pairs of planets only a few hours apart. It was possible to trade between them very fast, even pick up 5000 fuel, overloading but only using 100 extra supplies to cross over to the other planet. I got past level 30 in less than 3 months, seems this shouldn't be possible. This was before the patch, maybe it's fixed?

On another note, which factions are well balanced with vanilla? I already included SRA and THI.
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JohnDoe

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Re: [0.65.2a] Nexerelin v0.6.2 "ICE ICE Baby" (update 2015-10-24)
« Reply #407 on: October 25, 2015, 05:48:32 AM »

I just played a game where there were pairs of planets only a few hours apart. It was possible to trade between them very fast, even pick up 5000 fuel, overloading but only using 100 extra supplies to cross over to the other planet. I got past level 30 in less than 3 months, seems this shouldn't be possible.
The trading imbalance is more of a "feature" of SS 0.65, where the player is unable to profit from normal hauling and the AI is nearly incapable of taking advantage of price differences. In this case it's exacerbated by short interplanetary distances.

On another note, which factions are well balanced with vanilla? I already included SRA and THI.
A lot of the SS+/Nexerelin compatible factions (excluding the Templars) are (advertised as) vanilla balanced. To name a few, Mayorate and BRDY. Inter-mod balancing could still be an issue: putting weapons from one mod on a ship from another mod can result in a load-out that's overpowered.

Edit: In my opinion SRA ships are slightly overpowered for vanilla balance. Some of the best ships in their classes are SRA ships (Enlil, Morningstar, Charybdis and Mimir) and they are also much more CR efficient than their competitors. SRA weapons are subpar though, so if you do put SRA weapons on SRA ships I guess it cancels out.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2015, 06:06:58 AM by JohnDoe »
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xor0

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Re: [0.65.2a] Nexerelin v0.6.2 "ICE ICE Baby" (update 2015-10-24)
« Reply #408 on: October 25, 2015, 07:16:50 AM »

Thanks for the info. Yes, I noticed that the Morningstar seems quite OP, also that the small anti fighter/missile weapons seem to miss about 95% of their shots. I stopped using SRA weapons in my last game except for the big energy one since there doesn't seem a good vanilla alternative.

Maybe the trading problem could be fixed by faster price adjustments, normalized by player level, ie reduce selling proces after only a few sales at low levels, lots of sales at higher levels. Right now you can go up 10 levels with one sale.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2015, 11:18:02 AM by xor0 »
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Nayru

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Re: [0.65.2a] Nexerelin v0.6.2 "ICE ICE Baby" (update 2015-10-24)
« Reply #409 on: October 25, 2015, 07:42:27 AM »

The quick leveling is also a part of the game's design, you hardly need any experience to get into the 30's, yet once you get into the 40's the amount you need per level quickly gets into the hundreds of thousands and eventually millions as you get further in.

http://fractalsoftworks.com/2012/09/08/character-design/#more-1569

Yeah, mining pod has always been junk and even mining doesn't make it that useful. I could give it a small hull mining strength boost, and/or cut the Shepherd's.
(Mining strength for fighter wings is multiplied by fighter count, yes)

Oh, that makes it a lot less horrible, but still terrible. Something I forgot to mention is the similar price between a wing and a shepherd, and the very common nature of the shepherd compared to the particularly rare wing (the original exerelin had to start you with one in omnifactory storage).

Haven't been able to reproduce the issue with mining uninhabited moons (including desert and water worlds). (I did find out that I can never spell "cryo" right)
Regular planets can't be mined even if unpopulated. Do you think I should change this?
(I also plan to make moons more common in general)

This is confusing, since I remember in the last game (the one with free omni refits) I was mining off a massive ice planet that had a moon/2 stations of its own, I'm pretty sure that thing wasn't a moon yet it sure was churning out volatiles.. and organics? Maybe it thought it was a gas giant..

Well, more moons would probably work (just can't get too much done with only asteroids + rocky moons, ore price crashes so fast), it'd be neat if you could mine planets too (if you don't want it to be as good you could up the hazard by .1 due to extremely higher gravity well), though something that would be extra funky is if a faction had say, that ice world nearby, and a lot of power in that star system, they could colonize the uninhabited but not uninhabitable planet.

Though if planets considered not a part of a faction could become part of it, and maybe even go back to non-faction through excessive attacks, it'd probably require a total rebalance of star system distribution and something else for mining (like 'can mine anything as long as faction is okay with your shenanigans, don't try to mine up and sell organics to the very same planet they beat you to the punch), could have inherent (not space fleet) planetary extractions be a major part of any particular station's exports and have that influence the economy as well, 'cause I don't get why the hegemony station orbiting the water moon pays top dollar for those organics (are they too big of baddies to mine it? Never saw an orange mining fleet..).
« Last Edit: October 25, 2015, 07:45:56 AM by Nayru »
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HELMUT

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Re: [0.65.2a] Nexerelin v0.6.2 "ICE ICE Baby" (update 2015-10-24)
« Reply #410 on: October 25, 2015, 07:43:19 AM »

SRA ships aren't overpowered, the Enlil and Morningstar are more or less equivalent to the Brawler and Hammerhead with better shields but lower armor. Charybdis is indeed, very strong, but it's also the most expensive cruiser to field. The only that could be considered overpowerd is the Mimir, which have been nerfed heavily in the last SRA version.

Their weapons are very good, just different. CEPCs weaponry tends to have extremely high burst DPS, very good for bursting down other ships at the beginning but otherwise bad at prolonged engagements.
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xor0

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Re: [0.65.2a] Nexerelin v0.6.2 "ICE ICE Baby" (update 2015-10-24)
« Reply #411 on: October 25, 2015, 11:33:03 AM »

The quick leveling is also a part of the game's design, you hardly need any experience to get into the 30's, yet once you get into the 40's the amount you need per level quickly gets into the hundreds of thousands and eventually millions as you get further in.

You hardly get any experience from the single frigates that you fight at first. I actually think initial leveling is too quick, but then I'd like to see a mod with way less fleets, realistic repair times (ie weeks), weapon damage so you need to replace them, overall less arcade-y where each battle, each decision has serious consequences.

But I was more talking about gaining ten levels at once from selling 5k fuel. I don't think that can be intentional.
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Nayru

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Re: [0.65.2a] Nexerelin v0.6.2 "ICE ICE Baby" (update 2015-10-24)
« Reply #412 on: October 25, 2015, 12:28:50 PM »

Well, the planet distance was more of a dodgy set of circumstances rather than intentional design, it can happen.

Otherwise though, quite a few people can take out 3-4 frigate (maybe even +destroyer!) fleets with a starting frigate, it ramps up quickly.

Gains are always exponential if you keep succeeding, and in something like (n)exerelin where you have more access to volatile trading/mining, it's to be expected. Even if you get into the 30's in the first 20 minutes of playing, it doesn't mean much unless you go combat 10 or have a fleet to back it up.
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Funk

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Re: [0.65.2a] Nexerelin v0.6.2 "ICE ICE Baby" (update 2015-10-24)
« Reply #413 on: October 25, 2015, 12:33:32 PM »

Depends on the starting frigate, but I think getting to level 30 in 30 minutes is a bit of an exaggeration!
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Nayru

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Re: [0.65.2a] Nexerelin v0.6.2 "ICE ICE Baby" (update 2015-10-24)
« Reply #414 on: October 25, 2015, 12:54:47 PM »

Take out some low end pirates, hope for bounties, get your monthly salary, buy some shepherd and go to town mining something good.

Or do all that and trade instead of mine. Holding shift is pretty good for speeding things up, afterall.
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OOZ662

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Re: [0.65.2a] Nexerelin v0.6.2 "ICE ICE Baby" (update 2015-10-24)
« Reply #415 on: October 25, 2015, 01:00:43 PM »

The quick leveling is also a part of the game's design, you hardly need any experience to get into the 30's, yet once you get into the 40's the amount you need per level quickly gets into the hundreds of thousands and eventually millions as you get further in.

Keep in mind that SS+ adjusted against this; progression is much more "linear" at the top end with it. Which I prefer; once I get to the point I'm throwing a big ol' fleet around I'd rather not still have to grind out hundreds of huge battles to level up, since by that time the current game is essentially over barring ferrying marines and supplies to invade all the planets that haven't yet been conquered.
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Histidine

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Re: [0.65.2a] Nexerelin v0.6.2 "ICE ICE Baby" (update 2015-10-24)
« Reply #416 on: October 25, 2015, 06:40:50 PM »

Note that SS+ also reduces XP gains from trading.

Starsector 0.7 will likely make trade disruptions not a ridiculous cash cow (at least it'll work as a sensible cash cow). Ref: 1 2
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Adraius

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Re: [0.65.2a] Nexerelin v0.6.2 "ICE ICE Baby" (update 2015-10-24)
« Reply #417 on: October 25, 2015, 08:27:15 PM »

once I get to the point I'm throwing a big ol' fleet around I'd rather not still have to grind out hundreds of huge battles to level up, since by that time the current game is essentially over barring ferrying marines and supplies to invade all the planets that haven't yet been conquered.
I just reached this point in my campaign; does anyone have any pointers for how to keep the game exciting and difficult at this stage?  Any self-imposed restrictions? (is this part of why people play faction-themed campaigns?) I'm honestly not a very good frigate pilot, but I have a big fleet with plenty of replacement vessels, and my 30 cap/30 vent 0.54 flux-per-shield-damage Morningstar is pretty hard to mess up in. =P
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sirboomalot

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Re: [0.65.2a] Nexerelin v0.6.2 "ICE ICE Baby" (update 2015-10-24)
« Reply #418 on: October 25, 2015, 08:41:05 PM »

My favorite restriction is to never use any ship larger than a frigate. Building up a good swarm that can take out larger fleets is always fun, and generally how I play the game these days. For this latest nexerelin version, for example, I've already acquired 5 wolf(D) ships each with a different main weapon along with one Enlil, and am starting to take down destroyers and lone cruisers for the glory of the vanilla pirate faction.
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OOZ662

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Re: [0.65.2a] Nexerelin v0.6.2 "ICE ICE Baby" (update 2015-10-24)
« Reply #419 on: October 25, 2015, 09:18:01 PM »

There's also the seemingly rarely noticed option to decrease damage dealt to player ships in the options that I think defaults to being on. I've never remembered to turn it off, but probably should by now...
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