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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7c "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-10-10)  (Read 1323426 times)

SpacePoliticianAndaZealot

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7b "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-27)
« Reply #3285 on: September 30, 2020, 08:19:38 AM »

Hello, I haven't really been up to date with the latest Starsector developments, so I'd like to just ask: I noticed that the new Vulture fleets give me the message that hostile actions against that fleet would result in a lower rep drop. I was at like +25ish rep with independents before I got intercepted and attacked by one said vulture fleet after scavenging through a debris field. After the battle I noticed that my rep with Indies dropped to -56. Is this intended behavior?
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Sapfearon

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7b "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-27)
« Reply #3286 on: September 30, 2020, 09:43:49 AM »

crash after i left my colony.

6112826 [Thread-4] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Cleaning up music with id [campaign_music_part_2_v28.ogg]
6112827 [Thread-8] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Cleaning up music with id [Atmospheric_Rise.ogg]
6112858 [Thread-10] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Creating streaming player for music with id [miscallenous_corvus_campaign_music.ogg]
6112858 [Thread-10] INFO  sound.null  - Playing music with id [miscallenous_corvus_campaign_music.ogg]
6113608 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at exerelin.campaign.intel.agents.CovertActionIntel.shouldAbortIfOwnMarket(CovertActionIntel.java:367)
   at exerelin.campaign.intel.agents.CovertActionIntel.advanceImpl(CovertActionIntel.java:374)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.intel.BaseIntelPlugin.advance(BaseIntelPlugin.java:75)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

edit : another crash, same problem. This is nex crash if i'm reading it right? something to do with agent?

« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 12:37:55 PM by Sapfearon »
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Histidine

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7b "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-27)
« Reply #3287 on: October 01, 2020, 02:28:09 AM »

crash after i left my colony.
[...]
edit : another crash, same problem. This is nex crash if i'm reading it right? something to do with agent?
Were you trying to execute a particular agent action, or did this happen on its own? (If the latter, a modlist might help)
The crash looks like it's from attempting an action without a target colony.

(Also it seems you're using an out-of-date copy of Nex)

Hello, I haven't really been up to date with the latest Starsector developments, so I'd like to just ask: I noticed that the new Vulture fleets give me the message that hostile actions against that fleet would result in a lower rep drop. I was at like +25ish rep with independents before I got intercepted and attacked by one said vulture fleet after scavenging through a debris field. After the battle I noticed that my rep with Indies dropped to -56. Is this intended behavior?
This shouldn't happen (my first thought was that the vultures pulled in another independent fleet to help them and you killed ships from that fleet, but a glance at the code suggests it shouldn't affect the matter).
Do you remember if the rep loss to hostile state was shown within the battle dialog, in the campaign GUI afterwards, or did it just happen silently?

I'm getting a java.lang.NullPointerException crash that I think that is related to vulture fleets.

From what I can recall, I was having a battle with a lowtech station as my ally. When the battle was over, I decided to scavenge the scraps of my battle, only to be interrupted by vulture scavengers( "Back off, we were here first" LOL). I closed the comms and did not fight them, and it seemed the vulture fleet was backing off from the scavenge , fleeing from me. From there, I started scavenging again but then I still was confronted by the vulture scavenger fleet. However this time, below all the usual text for a encounter a line something like Fatal:null showed up. I closed the encounter window and the game crashed afterwards. I have saved right before I started salvaging at all, but loading up the save keeps giving me the same Fatal:null crash shortly after.
Are you using Extra Systems Reloaded v0.5.0? That's been having issues, try the fix .jar here.
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SpacePoliticianAndaZealot

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7b "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-27)
« Reply #3288 on: October 01, 2020, 05:51:56 AM »

This shouldn't happen (my first thought was that the vultures pulled in another independent fleet to help them and you killed ships from that fleet, but a glance at the code suggests it shouldn't affect the matter).
Do you remember if the rep loss to hostile state was shown within the battle dialog, in the campaign GUI afterwards, or did it just happen silently?
It happened silently. No rep change message was present anywhere, the only way I figured indies were suddenly hostile to me was by viewing the Intel tab after I got attacked.
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fellabrando

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7b "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-27)
« Reply #3289 on: October 01, 2020, 08:57:06 AM »

Question on adding factions.

I'd like to add as many of the faction mods as humanely possible...

Will this screw up nexellerin at all?
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fastdino

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7b "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-27)
« Reply #3290 on: October 01, 2020, 12:15:22 PM »

No, I'm not using extra systems reloaded.  Here is my active mod list:
Combat Chatter 1.10
Dassault Mikoyan 1.18
Diable Avionics 2.53rc1
Interstellar Imperiums 2.2.1
Kadur Remnant 3.1.2
Lazy Lib 2.4f
Magiclib 0.29
Mayasuran Navy 8.3.0 Rc2
Neutrino Corp 1.86 RC3
Nexerelin 0.9.7b
Outer rim alliance 0.89
Pearson Extronics 0.5.4
Portrait Pack v1.2.4
Shadowyards 0.9-rc3
Shipweapon pack 1.11.0
SkilledUp1.1
Starship Legends 1.4.2
Tahlan Shipworks 0.3. 17
Underworld 1.4.4
Vayra's Sector 3.1.5
Vayra's Ship Pack 1.1.4
ZZ Graphics Lib 1.4.2
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Histidine

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7b "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-27)
« Reply #3291 on: October 02, 2020, 03:55:18 AM »

Question on adding factions.

I'd like to add as many of the faction mods as humanely possible...

Will this screw up nexellerin at all?
Nexerelin itself should work fine, although there may be some economy/strategic balance issues, it can get confusing tracking all the factions and their relations, etc.

That said, the more mods you run the longer things like saving and loading the game are going to take, and if you use too much for your system it risks a crash from running out of RAM/VRAM, that sorta thing.

No, I'm not using extra systems reloaded.  Here is my active mod list:
[...]
Hmm. The error message is the same as the one here, but I haven't heard of it crashing with non-player-faction fleets outside of Extra Systems.
Well, you could try the fix for it anyway: delete all autofit variants you've created for ships with modules, or set them to not be prioritised in the faction doctrine screen.
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immortalartisan

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7b "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-27)
« Reply #3292 on: October 02, 2020, 03:25:37 PM »

you really need to improve the colony building ai. its really the only major problem with the mod as they quickly start flooding the food and ore markets and then dont build any of the industries and miltary to use the materials
« Last Edit: October 02, 2020, 09:24:03 PM by immortalartisan »
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AcaMetis

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7b "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-27)
« Reply #3293 on: October 03, 2020, 04:13:37 AM »

The Hegemony and Tri-Tachion (the BFF team no one expected, I'm sure) ended up warring against the League and Diktat in a big way in my game, and the Hegemony captured Cruor from the Diktat. I bought up like half of Nortia's black market and dumped off what supplies, fuel, and heavy armaments I could on Cruor's black market to aid the rebellion there. That got me a diplo penalty with the Diktat for "trading with their enemies", when I bought stuff from the Independents (well, Pirates, really) to supply their rebels.

Not sure if that can be fixed, but I wanted to point it out in case it can.

EDIT: Okay, was not expecting the -30 Hegemony rep after they finally gave in because I supplied the rebellion a bunch, or the +20 Diktat rep for the same reason. Many a pirate raiding Aztlan met the business end of my fleet so I could get back into positive rep with the Hegemony after that ;D.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 07:48:19 AM by AcaMetis »
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fellabrando

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7b "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-27)
« Reply #3294 on: October 03, 2020, 06:51:24 AM »

Hey so I've been testing having a *** ton of mods playing at the same time.

A problem that's come out is all survey missions.... disapppear LONG before I have a chance to complete them.

Some appear then disappear immediately.

I removed most of the mods... and then put nexellerin and a ton of the new mod factions I wanted and the problem still persists...

Is there a bug where if there are too many factions in the game world... the game makes it so the contracts get taken up way too sooner?

EDIT: NEVERMIND, I WASN'T ACCEPTING THE MISSIONS
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 07:04:44 AM by fellabrando »
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epsilonflash

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7b "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-27)
« Reply #3295 on: October 03, 2020, 07:00:55 AM »

I beg you to reconsider the reputation loss when attacking vulture fleets. There are currently few things as infuriating as fighting a big fleet and getting locked out of the spoils of our own battles, unless we're okay with ruining our standing with the independents, which is a huge bother considering it's tied to things such as the prism port discount and the kassadar seller.

This is especially bothersome considering the independents are not even a cohesive group, just a collective designation for people who don't belong to factions. And it's really hard to accept that you try to face people who are attempting to take what's rightfully yours and every factionless person out there collectively goes "Oh wow, you're getting no-no points for that one. Should have just let them steal your stuff instead". It's bad enough that it broke me and I finally made an account just to post this.
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fellabrando

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7b "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-27)
« Reply #3296 on: October 03, 2020, 07:08:18 AM »

I beg you to reconsider the reputation loss when attacking vulture fleets. There are currently few things as infuriating as fighting a big fleet and getting locked out of the spoils of our own battles, unless we're okay with ruining our standing with the independents, which is a huge bother considering it's tied to things such as the prism port discount and the kassadar seller.

This is especially bothersome considering the independents are not even a cohesive group, just a collective designation for people who don't belong to factions. And it's really hard to accept that you try to face people who are attempting to take what's rightfully yours and every factionless person out there collectively goes "Oh wow, you're getting no-no points for that one. Should have just let them steal your stuff instead". It's bad enough that it broke me and I finally made an account just to post this.

That seems like a problem.

I also have ED shipyard installed and the are dependent on Independent faction relations too...

EDIT: Okay, now I have a problem with Remnant High alert systems not spawning at all.... There in hyperspace because of the ruthless mod but no remnant stations... I used devmod tools to look around... :(
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 08:58:28 AM by fellabrando »
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Histidine

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7b "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-27)
« Reply #3297 on: October 04, 2020, 01:46:32 AM »

you really need to improve the colony building ai. its really the only major problem with the mod as they quickly start flooding the food and ore markets and then dont build any of the industries and miltary to use the materials
They start with farming and mining on new colonies because those are cheap and good, but larger colonies do frequently build larger industries in my experience.

I beg you to reconsider the reputation loss when attacking vulture fleets. There are currently few things as infuriating as fighting a big fleet and getting locked out of the spoils of our own battles, unless we're okay with ruining our standing with the independents, which is a huge bother considering it's tied to things such as the prism port discount and the kassadar seller.

This is especially bothersome considering the independents are not even a cohesive group, just a collective designation for people who don't belong to factions. And it's really hard to accept that you try to face people who are attempting to take what's rightfully yours and every factionless person out there collectively goes "Oh wow, you're getting no-no points for that one. Should have just let them steal your stuff instead". It's bad enough that it broke me and I finally made an account just to post this.
Hmm, for your own battles you should be able to grab most or all of the stuff before vultures arrive (and I'm increasing their spawning distance from player fleet to make this more reliable), especially since player doesn't have any cooldown on picking up derelict ships. Are they showing up much faster for you?

Though for scenarios outside of vultures trying to grab stuff from player battles (which I'll try to make not happen, unless the player is slow with the scavenging) I don't think changing the rep penalty is desirable (other than that insta-hostile bug I haven't been able to identify). You are blowing up independent fleets over some scrap, and -5 rep once in a while should be pretty manageable, particularly with the rep-gaining tools Nex adds; it's the same penalty as from a failed expedition.

EDIT: Okay, now I have a problem with Remnant High alert systems not spawning at all.... There in hyperspace because of the ruthless mod but no remnant stations... I used devmod tools to look around... :(
I've heard of a bug where someone's Remnant stations in an existing game all vanished after updating to Nexerelin 0.9.7, but have no idea what could cause it (Nex certainly doesn't try to do anything like that). Sorry...
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epsilonflash

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7b "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-27)
« Reply #3298 on: October 04, 2020, 04:22:53 AM »

Are they showing up much faster for you?

They're showing pretty fast. Sometimes after battles there will be stragglers from enemy fleets which will prevent us from salvaging with the usual "an enemy fleet is tracking you" scenario, even if it's nothing but a dram and a frigate or two. This can mean that sometimes, we can't scavenge a single time before the vultures lock you out of your loot. And since you usually have to scavenge 3-5 times before the debris stops yielding anything worthwhile, it's a pretty raw deal.

From a balancing perspective, is there really a need for the reputation loss? From what I could grasp, the vultures were introduced as a way to prevent very early game players from just following invasion fleets around and salvaging all the capital ships they could want, an addition which in my opinion is pretty good and welcome. If this is the case, they're already doing their job pretty well. But the truth is on the vast majority of starts, reputation with the independents is generally not a concern when at that point. Rather, it's something that only becomes valuable as you grow well beyond the size at which vultures would be a deterrent, so doesn't this reputation loss mainly penalize players which are already far past the starting point which vultures are meant to affect?

The main issue is definitely the reputation loss from debris which originated from player actions. Those are actually rightfully ours, and they're no better than pirates at that point. At the same time, it would still be a bit annoying to lose reputation in other situations, because it's not as straightforward as "we're blowing them up for scraps". Rather, they're choosing to fight others to the death (their death or ours) instead of allowing equal access to scraps which aren't theirs in the first place.

Like, if we attack an independent trading fleet, sure, we're basically pirates and are indeed blowing them up for scraps. But regular scavengers are happy to do their business and share the spoils with others, unlike the vultures which are going around strong-arming others and laying claim to things which aren't theirs to begin with. They hold no special rights over random debris fields any more than anyone else, so why would playing their own game be frowned upon by the independent community at large? Surely they don't think this heavily armed group who do nothing but go around intimidating people is a shining pillar of their community and any actions against them should be reprimanded?

The size of the reputation loss itself is very much manageable, for sure. In fact, a level 5 agent ordered to raise relations once would probably be enough to make up for blowing up four whole vulture fleets. It's not about the size though, it's the added annoyance. It feels like getting cheated out of your hard-earned perfect reputation over and over, and having to bother fixing it, with no added upside to compensate for that. Or rather, either getting cheated out of your reputation or cheated out of the spoils which you came across. It might be only my personal opinion, but losing reputation in that situation feels like it adds nothing to the game and actually makes it less enjoyable.

I didn't expect the post to get so big, so sorry for that. Ultimately, I am very much not trying to tell you how to make your own mod, that decision is obviously yours alone, I'm just posting this to try and defend this point of view. And of course, I also don't know how many people there are on the opposite side of the argument, who actually appreciate the vulture fleets as they are, and would dislike any changes to them. As it stands, however, if the reputation loss remains in the future, and if there is a setting to disable vulture fleets, they'll likely be turned off permanently on all my future playthroughs; personally, I can't help but feel like they're an added chore with no clear upside, in their current state.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2020, 09:32:10 AM by epsilonflash »
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e

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7b "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-27)
« Reply #3299 on: October 04, 2020, 01:44:16 PM »

you really need to improve the colony building ai. its really the only major problem with the mod as they quickly start flooding the food and ore markets and then dont build any of the industries and miltary to use the materials
They start with farming and mining on new colonies because those are cheap and good, but larger colonies do frequently build larger industries in my experience.

I think the root of the problem and why colony AI seems like it's doing nothing is that new colonies, or AI colonies in general are either very slow or don't grow at all in market size, their new colonies are made and will stay at level 3-4 forever.

Not implying that this on itself is a problem, just mentioning that this might be the root cause as to why people perceive that the colony AI might be bad.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2020, 01:46:15 PM by DarkOmegaMK2 »
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