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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7c "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-10-10)  (Read 1324133 times)

mora

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7 "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-06)
« Reply #3255 on: September 10, 2020, 09:16:14 PM »

If vulture fleets were intended to prevent the player from suddenly going from a solo frigate to a capital ship, maybe they shouldn't spawn when the invading/raiding faction is hostile to the independents.
The reason is because vulture fleets would fight the invaders/raiders and generate even more free stuff and them typically having a somewhat large fleet also helps because they might destroy a capital ship or two in the process.
This scenario wouldn't happen if you don't have pirate invasions turned on(why not) or don't have templars installed but it still happens.
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Modo44

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7 "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-06)
« Reply #3256 on: September 14, 2020, 01:23:49 AM »

Another vulture fleet issue is that they tend to wreck pirates in a system, which makes system bounties unprofitable. If they could be truly dedicated to salvaging first, that would help.
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basileus

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7 "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-06)
« Reply #3257 on: September 17, 2020, 05:33:02 PM »

Yeah, I started a Pather game.  If the idea was to reduce salvage/junk in a system, it's backfired spectacularly in this case.  It doesn't seem like there's much, if any, cooldown between Vulture fleet spawns.
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Jaghaimo

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7 "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-06)
« Reply #3258 on: September 18, 2020, 03:20:37 AM »

The vulture spawning feels really off, so many of them spawning everywhere (basically every conflict), and even for a little skirmish it spawns a huge-ass fleet. Perhaps they could spawn relative to player's size (so I could fight them for salvage if I wanted).
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Histidine

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7 "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-06)
« Reply #3259 on: September 18, 2020, 06:20:39 PM »

They're not necessarily meant to reduce the absolute amount of salvage as such (although they will if the player isn't nearby); just prevent the player from getting salvage you didn't personally kill, unless you want to fight for it. There's also a limit to how many spawn based on number of ongoing raids and salvagables (derelict ships and debris fields) in the system, with no fleets spawning if the numbers of each are too low.

That said, I didn't look into what happens when the player is hostile to independents, and vultures fighting people on their own is undesirable. Also the fact that vulture fleet sizes are largely RNG-based may not be desirable?
I'll try some things in dev. Maybe a "when finding things to salvage, don't include things near a hostile fleet" rule would be good, among others.
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Modo44

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7 "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-06)
« Reply #3260 on: September 18, 2020, 10:28:42 PM »

For performance reasons, the limit of vulture fleets should be a setting. Maybe their size as well. Personally, I would like to see that random -- sometimes my size, sometimes way too big/small to even consider a fight.

Because vulture fleets have independent gear and a lot of support ships, "equal to player strength" is actually weaker most of the time. I found most of them to be easy prey so far.
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Warnoise

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7 "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-06)
« Reply #3261 on: September 20, 2020, 04:07:46 AM »

I have a question:

Do AI factions build new buildings and upgrade them when they get new colonies via invasion/donation?

Because when I check colony info, I often see that they they don't build  industries and not upgrade them.
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basileus

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7 "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-06)
« Reply #3262 on: September 20, 2020, 10:15:29 AM »

Do AI factions build new buildings and upgrade them when they get new colonies via invasion/donation?

Because when I check colony info, I often see that they they don't build  industries and not upgrade them.

They do, but I'm not quite sure how the logic works.

If I found a new colony and donate it so I can purchase back the governorship, the AI will always start to build mining/farming immediately.

I've definitely seen them build orbital stations, patrol HQs, and even upgrade heavy industry to orbital works.  A colony growing in size triggers it considering building things.  Otherwise, it seems to happen infrequently/rarely?  Whether and what they actually build may depend upon the overall economy of the faction?

One thing I have noticed is that giving them a market that doesn't have any resources seems to confuse the AI and they won't build anything until it grows.

Speaking of purchasing governorships, I'm sometimes annoyed at the lack of an option to become governor after invading a planet.  I either have to hand it over to my faction completely--and am frequently unable to purchase governorship because of the size--or found my own faction.  I was thinking it would be nice if there was a third option to purchase the governorship, unrestricted by market size, with a few caveats: 1) larger markets should require cooperative standing and 2) the cost should be something like (200-250k * market size * number of markets controlled by the player already).  It would seem to make sense to me that factions would be keen to help the rising hero advance their own interests, but would grow increasingly jealous/nervous if the player consolidates too much power within their organization.

Quote
That said, I didn't look into what happens when the player is hostile to independents, and vultures fighting people on their own is undesirable.

It happens constantly.  They also attack my convoys and orbital stations.  There were 5 markets in the system.  Initially only 1 was Pather.  I have conquered 3 of them for the Pathers.  The final one is a normal faction that isn't currently hostile to the Luddic Path, and it is continuing to churn out vulture fleets at a prodigious rate.  The trouble is that the vulture fleets fight the Pather armadas, which produces salvage and derelicts, which spawns more vulture fleets, and on and on it goes.  It's like the independents have a high command in the system despite having no markets.

I purchased the governorship of one of the markets, so there are now 2 Pather High Commands in the system.  It's gotten to the point that the Vulture fleets are destroyed almost immediately, and two of them are spawning every day after I've been in the system for a little while.

Maybe if a system is controlled by a pirate faction, vultures should decide that it's too dangerous and steer clear.  Another option would be to just give a limit of 2-3 fleets and then add a cooldown of at least a month before more spawn.  After all, they are presumably economic opportunists, not soldiers prepared to die for a cause.

I would also second that it would be nice if there were settings to disable or adjust this feature.
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Cerevox

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7 "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-06)
« Reply #3263 on: September 21, 2020, 12:43:30 AM »

I am actually having the opposite experience with vulture fleets. I had dropped a colony and for some reason, an endless horde of pirate armadas decided to smash it. I kinda figured I was doomed to just get raided forever, but after the first debris field between my space station and the first pirate armada showed up, vulture fleets started appearing. Vulture fleets of massive size and number. They demolished the pirate armadas for me and cleared everything out of the system that was remotely hostile. And they blocked my access to the debris field from my own space station that was caused by my faction.

So, it seems like the vulture fleets either act like a hunter killer team vs the player if independents hate you, as a source of infinite debris fields if you are pirates, or as a galactic anti-pirate police force if your faction is attacked by pirates. I am pretty sure that whatever the design goal for the vulture fleets was, it was none of these 3.

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Histidine

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7 "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-06)
« Reply #3264 on: September 22, 2020, 03:21:02 AM »

I won't have time to properly playtest my vulture fleet adjustments for a while, so I'd appreciate it if people try this beta version and see if it addresses your issues.

v0.9.7a2 download

Changelog
Relevant bit:
* Vulture fleet fixes/improvements
    * Avoid targeting loot with an enemy fleet nearby, unless our fleet is strong enough to pick a fight
    * Try to avoid being distracted by nearby enemies
    * If no raids are incoming and there's nothing to salvage, go home instead of hanging around
    * Reduce spawn rate multiplier 8 -> 5, add another multiplier value to settings.json
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Ed

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7 "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-06)
« Reply #3265 on: September 22, 2020, 04:27:31 PM »

How do I blacklist a ship from being procured by Agents?
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immortalartisan

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7 "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-06)
« Reply #3266 on: September 22, 2020, 05:32:25 PM »

do i need to restart to use this mod?
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Ed

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7 "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-06)
« Reply #3267 on: September 22, 2020, 05:43:59 PM »

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Histidine

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7 "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-06)
« Reply #3268 on: September 22, 2020, 06:37:39 PM »

How do I blacklist a ship from being procured by Agents?
data/config/exerelin/agent_steal_ship_config.csv
Set a cost mult of <0 for the desired hull ID.

do i need to restart to use this mod?
You can add it to an existing save, although Prism Freeport won't appear without console commands.
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Ed

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Re: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.7 "War and Peace Redux" (update 2020-09-06)
« Reply #3269 on: September 23, 2020, 05:06:26 AM »

Thanks
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