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Author Topic: What are the things that annoy/frustrate you about Starsector?  (Read 100401 times)

Dri

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What are the things that annoy/frustrate you about Starsector?
« on: February 25, 2015, 02:55:58 PM »

We all have a lot of praise for the game but what are some of the things that just annoy/frustrate you?

Get dirty, get nitpicky.

* When my big, heavy cruisers (Dominator) always seem to be off in bum**** Egypt when they should be charging down the enemies throat.
* When my torpedo bombers (Daggers) are like almost IN a ship but refuse to fire their torpedo.
* 100,000 credit bounties (still pretty low-end) that for some reason have a high combat skill capital ship + multiple cruisers/destroyers. NOT WORTH THE RISK for only 100k (Tri-Tachyon *cough*)!
* Every other bounty seemingly spawning in Eos (system out in bum**** Egypt that rarely has any food shortages).
* When my Harpoon equipped ships dump their entire loads on the initial Hounds/Cerberi/Buffalo MK.2s
* Getting tolled at every planet I seem to fly near. Getting tolled JUST before I reach a planet to sell off tons of cargo.
* No way of checking what markets have what in stock remotely (We can fly FTL but can't communicate FTL?) - want a certain ship or weapon? Better keep flying across the entire sector and hope you find a market that actually has 1 for sale!
* When my frigates get in the way of my line of fire when I'm in a big ship (cruiser on up). Happens a lot when you try to keep at your gun's maximum range.
* The UI not telling me that I'm overselling a certain commodity and I only get the full-price for a partial amount of what I sell. Why you no tell me how many I can sell at full price?!
* No post-battle replay video option so I can see just what the hell happened to that-one-ship-of-mine-that-got-lit-the-hell-up-and-nearly-destroyed while I was busy fighting 1 screen length away.
* The fact that all trade goods other than food are seemingly useless/not worth the trouble to trade in.

Could go on but I want to hear some of your pet peeves!
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 02:59:07 PM by Dri »
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orost

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Re: What are the things that annoy/frustrate you about Starsector?
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2015, 03:24:38 PM »

The only really serious thing is the insufficient control over the AI we have. I get that it's supposed to be as hands-off as possible, but unfortunately the AI just isn't there. And that's not to take away from Alex or whoever else might have contributed to it, it is very good, but the game's design, in order to work properly, calls for AI that is much better than very good, maybe better than can be done at all.

The AI isn't smart enough to figure things out on its own, so I wish I could tell it. Tell that ship armed with LRMs and 1000+ range guns not to rush into close combat. Tell my weapons group 2 to only fire at shields, and my weapons group 3 to only fire at hull. Tell a fighter wing to stay close and provide a PD screen.

A certain other game involving spaceships, Gratutious Space Battles, comes to mind. It's obviously inferior to and much simpler than Starsector, but it had that particular right: every ship could be given a number of orders, such as "retreat when below x% HP", "hunt down nearly destroyed ships", "maintain formation with this friendly ship", "attack ships that are attacking this friendly ship"... you could also set what classes of ships it should engage, with what priority, what weapons and at what range. I think Starsector needs something similiar to work really well.
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Schwartz

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Re: What are the things that annoy/frustrate you about Starsector?
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2015, 03:30:11 PM »

- Getting my ass kicked. Bounties with Onslaughts frustrate me on principle.

- When the AI decides it's time to charge into the middle of a pack of enemies and then gets taken out in seconds.

- When the AI forgets about putting up its shields / turning on phase in anticipation of an explosion. Especially dumb if it's a phased ship taking out an enemy and then it just 'takes the hit'.

- When I chase down fleeing ships and I expressly give orders for my fast frigates and fighters to take out two enemy fast frigates, only to find them all circling around the big, fat boat that I'd brought my destroyer for.

- How shy an AI phase frigate suddenly gets when chasing down a fleeing enemy. Nope, I'm not gonna fire just yet. It doesn't feel right. I'm a libra, you know?

- Certain ships are still too rare, even on military markets. Tempest, Omen, Hyperion.

..that general behaviour setting is a great idea. It'd take some weight off what a capable AI needs to do.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 03:33:27 PM by Schwartz »
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SafariJohn

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Re: What are the things that annoy/frustrate you about Starsector?
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2015, 04:21:11 PM »

Maximum bounty in Vanilla is ~260K.
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Dri

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Re: What are the things that annoy/frustrate you about Starsector?
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2015, 05:39:26 PM »

Some good ones here! I also get irate about ships getting wrecked by another ship's death explosion (though, thankfully this seems to be a more rare occurrence than it used to be) and my fast ships doing a ****-poor job of actually chasing down fleeing enemies.
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736b

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Re: What are the things that annoy/frustrate you about Starsector?
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2015, 05:46:57 PM »

I'm annoyed that I still can't close a menu by pressing the respective menu button again (see http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=1184.0).
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Thaago

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Re: What are the things that annoy/frustrate you about Starsector?
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2015, 06:58:18 PM »

When frigates and fighters just WON'T disengage. I've had frigates that are 100 speed faster than everything else around, given them a direct order to intercept a ship across the map, and find that a minute or more later they are still dancing in and out with the slower target. Just fly away!
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Megas

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Re: What are the things that annoy/frustrate you about Starsector?
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2015, 07:07:53 PM »

Easy start is easier, but only if you store your destroyer immediately (if you only want to fight).  Bringing your destroyer slows your fleet too much, and causes small pirate fleets to run away from you (because your fleet has more than 10 DP).

Honest trader start:  The only good starting option is the one that gives lobsters.  Selling them gives more money than starting with 4,000 more credits.  More money is more useful than free Hermes if there is a shortage when the game starts, and you can buy more food with more starting money.

If you know you want a Lasher/Cerberus/Vigilance, you should use the suicide exploit (i.e., store and spend all, suicide as broken shuttle flagship) a few times immediately after starting a new game.

Toll trolls, as posted above by others.

No energy weapons (other than mining laser) in open market.

Most weapons require welcoming or higher relations before they can be bought in a military market.  Early game is hard because of very limited access to stuff even if you can afford it otherwise.  By the time you raise relations high enough to access stuff, you are already in the midgame.

Independents have no military market.  Reputation above suspicious is only good as a cushion of how much you can sell to their Black Market before you lose too much.

Most factions use the same ships.  Even Tri-Tachyon, which used to be all high-tech, now has lots of midline and even some low-tech ships.  Most of the others are Hegemony clones.

Tri-Tachyon continues to sell more low-tech and midline ships that every other faction sells, yet Tibicena is the only place to find high tech ships aside from Wolf and Dagger wings.  They also refuse to sell the Astral, even after I bought about dozen Odyssey and Paragon capitals.

Augmented Engines hullmod.  I strip it from 20+ freighters when I am ready to haul tens of thousands of food or supplies.  After I reach my destination, I add Augmented Engines back to all of my ships.

Flux Coil Adjunct is unlocked after I get Miniatured Capacitors perk, and I no longer need the hullmod.  If I raise Flux Dynamics past 5, it is because I want the Miniatured Vents perk at 10, and Flux Distributor hullmod (unlocked at 7) will be nearly useless by then.

Advanced Optics hullmod requires Applied Physics 7, in a skill I would otherwise skip, because +1% flux capacity per level is less useful than almost every other skill.

Frigates get much more burn from high Navigation skill than all other ship types.  I almost never use anything bigger than a frigate, except when hauling commodities in an Atlas fleet, because high burn speed is critical for exploiting events.

Leadership and Fleet Logistics is mandatory just to pilot most capitals.

The fastest way to level is to exploit shortages.  If you want to powerlevel, get max Leadership and Fleet Logistics as soon as possible.  XP will roll in quickly, and you can level quickly to get the max Combat and Technology (i.e., everything).  I like to powerlevel and get everything, but I rather fight battles than exploit shortages to do so.

Valhalla system.  Places of interest are far from the gates, and if you trade at most of them, you anger the opposing faction.  I cannot zoom all the way out to view the whole system (and I need to right-click and drag).

I order my ships to rally somewhere to get away from an enemy, but they refuse.  The only way I can fool the AI to disengage and rally elsewhere is to order an escort to another ship already at the rally point.

Pursuit is usually a gamebreaking trap option.  You pursue when reputation is below -70, and you permanently seal off access to that faction's bases.  Nothing is worth that.

Boarding.  Even with hard dock, your best chance of success is not in your favor and results are totally random.
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: What are the things that annoy/frustrate you about Starsector?
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2015, 07:13:09 PM »

Most of my complaints/ rages are already here (God damn dumbass ally AI...) but here is another two that I hate:
One: The AI doesn't focus fire on one ship! I've seen so damn many ships get away and ally ships get blown to bits because the AI has f***ing ADD!
Two: The AI panics and "dances" back and forth
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Histidine

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Re: What are the things that annoy/frustrate you about Starsector?
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2015, 08:55:27 PM »

One small but annoying thing: When me and a friendly ship are 2v1 against an enemy destroyer or such, I try to circle it so it can't keep its shield up against both of us at once. The friendly AI gets the same idea and also circles it... in the same direction. >___<

It'd be pretty cool (though not necessarily useful for most players) if we could write our own AI scripts in Java and distribute them for people to plug into the game. It could be taught semi-complex behaviour like "if frigate is alone and outnumbered more than 2:1 in DP terms, run away, no exceptions" or "if nearby friendly is overloaded and has missiles incoming, try to interpose."
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Shoat

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Re: What are the things that annoy/frustrate you about Starsector?
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2015, 09:27:34 PM »

I can't think of much new to add here.

For me, most of the frustrating parts of the game involve the AI and they could probably be lessened a lot with some comparatively small additions to our command UI (such as a "this group of allies should stick together and fight together similar to a fighter wing" order and a "stay the *** away from this guy" marker for enemy ships) as well as miscellaneous AI behavior tweaks (a capital ship should just cruise through a fleet of small fries towards the closest not-laughably-weak target without slowing down and let it's autofire weapons murder everything on the way instead of slowly approaching every single frigate personally and shooting it with main guns before moving on to the next target).
I'm pretty sure there will be plenty of AI improvements and/or more options for us to control our fleet down the road, so I'm not really worried about this stuff.
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Dri

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Re: What are the things that annoy/frustrate you about Starsector?
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2015, 10:31:17 PM »

Leave it to Megas to be the one to most thoroughly dissect the game! ;D

The point of this thread was not to rag on the game in bad spirits but to rather help Alex identify some rough areas that may need some looking into - I think everyone already gets that, though. :)
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Megas

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Re: What are the things that annoy/frustrate you about Starsector?
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2015, 06:37:29 AM »

Here is another:  Omni shield emitter hullmod.  It is extremely expensive - costs too much OP.  (It also requires Mechanical Engineering 10 - moot point given that it is one of the power skills of the game.)  The few ships I would consider this hullmod for, cannot afford it without giving up too much.

P.S., It also halves the benefit of Extended Shields, so that it gives only 30 degrees.  Ships that get too small of an arc after omni shield emitter then try to patch it with Extended Shield still get a disappointingly small shield, after sacrificing too much OP.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2015, 06:42:04 AM by Megas »
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harrumph

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Re: What are the things that annoy/frustrate you about Starsector?
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2015, 06:49:05 AM »

I popped back into Starsector after months away, and I've gotta say—the AI is so good compared to other games, we really shouldn't be complaining about it. I've been playing tons of Crusader Kings 2 for the past couple months, and god, it's an amazing game, but the AI is so irredeemably stupid that it ultimately saps all the challenge out of the game. The Starsector slips up sometimes, of course (just like you do), but it also does really surprising, impressive stuff, and it's consistently very strong.
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Thaago

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Re: What are the things that annoy/frustrate you about Starsector?
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2015, 11:44:53 AM »

I popped back into Starsector after months away, and I've gotta say—the AI is so good compared to other games, we really shouldn't be complaining about it. I've been playing tons of Crusader Kings 2 for the past couple months, and god, it's an amazing game, but the AI is so irredeemably stupid that it ultimately saps all the challenge out of the game. The Starsector slips up sometimes, of course (just like you do), but it also does really surprising, impressive stuff, and it's consistently very strong.

Even though I posted my own AI annoyance before, I do agree with this. I actually have a theory: The skills that apply only to the player ship from the combat branch make us forget what unskilled ships can do. Having +CR (which gives its own extra bonuses), +damage, -damage taken, +speed etc etc gives the player a inflated sense of what ships are capable of, even without the discreet powerful capstones. So when we see AI ships getting destroyed or not getting the job done, part of it is the actual (large) difference in piloting and decision making ability between the AI and the player, but part of it is also false expectations. Playing without skills is hard!
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