Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

Pages: 1 [2]

Author Topic: Remove ALL Ammo From the Game IMMEDIATELY  (Read 8265 times)

JohnDoe

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 320
    • View Profile
Re: Remove ALL Ammo From the Game IMMEDIATELY
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2015, 04:40:25 PM »

"Remove all ammo" is actually hidden liberal agenda to disarm the self-reliant American people to make them easier to subdue. It puts the abrasive idea of voluntary disarming into players' minds. I am glad Alex didn't completely fall for it.
Logged

Protonus

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 444
  • AAAAAAAAAAAA
    • View Profile
Re: Remove ALL Ammo From the Game IMMEDIATELY
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2015, 05:18:08 PM »

Nothing to see much here, really. OP's namesake really does pay off as a response.


To me, I don't see ammunition as a significant problem here, Ballistic weapons are actually more flux efficient than standard Energy weapons for a reason. Not to mention you can just simply extend the ammo capacity with a single yet very small Hullmod that almost every ship can simply just slap it right in, that said Ballistic weapons have large ammunition counts almost like you rarely saw it. If you have trouble fighting against larger groups of enemies, bring in more guns/ships to the play not just yourself in your Joy-frigate. That's all I can say, unless someone makes a simpler response than mine.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 05:27:22 PM by Protonus »
Logged

The cookies are a weird one, okay.

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12118
    • View Profile
Re: Remove ALL Ammo From the Game IMMEDIATELY
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2015, 06:16:15 PM »

I think the worst part of limited ammo is I can cheese the AI, as a last resort.  If player cannot outflank or outgun the enemy, but enemy has limited ammo, the most effective strategy would be to make the enemy run out of ammo, even if it takes several minutes to make it happen.  For example, bring a Medusa or other ship that can shield-tank or dodge shots indefinitely, wait until enemy ship runs out of ammo, then kill the defenseless enemy ship.

For the player that runs out of ammo, all it means is the player needs to retreat from battle, take the CR% hit, and re-engage for another round with full ammo.  You still get all of the XP (but maybe not loot) after you win the encounter, whether it takes one round or several.
Logged

WKOB

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 732
  • Odobenidine Benefactor
    • View Profile
Re: Remove ALL Ammo From the Game IMMEDIATELY
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2015, 10:36:40 PM »

That's a problem with the AI, not with the concept of ammunition.
Logged

celestis

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 285
    • View Profile
Re: Remove ALL Ammo From the Game IMMEDIATELY
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2015, 02:24:06 AM »

Regarding future removal of ammo from ballistic weapons, EVE reload model can be considered (someone above mentioned similar thing).
I mean, it should take much longer than usual to reload after using the full "pack" of ammunition. While having infinite ammo, this will make them quite different from energy non-beam guns.
Logged

ahrenjb

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 225
    • View Profile
Re: Remove ALL Ammo From the Game IMMEDIATELY
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2015, 09:16:31 AM »

I'm positive this was an infantile sperg out, but that being said ammunition has never been a big problem for me. Even with the limitations, I find I generally prefer ballistic armed ships. Some of my favorite weapons are even ones with prohibitively small capacity. So I adapt. If I start an engagement and after a while some of my most potent weapons have run dry, I've probably destroyed a handful of enemy vessels and leveled the playing field a bit. Now is a great opportunity to retreat, then come in for a second round. I'm now re-armed, start with fresh deployment positions, and have my peak performance reset. My hull and armor retain whatever damage I took during the previous engagement, meaning I have to be careful still, but at least I can fully utilize my firepower.

I do this often in large fleet battles, I don't see what the issue is. I assume this is an intentional playstyle given that the engagement mechanic very clearly supports this.
Logged

Silver Silence

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 980
    • View Profile
Re: Remove ALL Ammo From the Game IMMEDIATELY
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2015, 10:10:09 AM »

Didn't Alex somewhat recently post a video of the idea of magazines? If ballistic weapons get magazines, I'll go around and just remove the magazine count so all guns are unlimited, but have a lengthy reload nonetheless.



As for "just retreat and re-engage", I think it's a stupid mechanic that serves no purpose other than to spontaneously reload guns in the nanosecond of gametime that the fleets are disengaged as there is no passing of time. I unlimited the ammo so that the AI's instantaneous crippling battles seem plausible and not 4-5 drawn out battles happening in a split second.
Logged

ahrenjb

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 225
    • View Profile
Re: Remove ALL Ammo From the Game IMMEDIATELY
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2015, 02:57:01 PM »

When you're flying around in the game map, time is greatly accelerated. Days go by in mere seconds, so it's not that unreasonable to me that multiple battles would happen in "a split second".
Logged

hydremajor

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 461
    • View Profile
Re: Remove ALL Ammo From the Game IMMEDIATELY
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2015, 12:39:31 AM »

Funny how NOBODY looked at the actual picture and settled for the text alone in that tweet

Look closer in the pic and you realise its normal limited ammo only you have to stop spamming every now and then for it to reload

It doesn't mean you have UNLIMITED ammo if you still have a LIMITED amount of clips...
Logged

CrashToDesktop

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3876
  • Quartermaster
    • View Profile
Re: Remove ALL Ammo From the Game IMMEDIATELY
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2015, 04:45:43 PM »

Funny how NOBODY looked at the actual picture and settled for the text alone in that tweet

Look closer in the pic and you realise its normal limited ammo only you have to stop spamming every now and then for it to reload

It doesn't mean you have UNLIMITED ammo if you still have a LIMITED amount of clips...

Well, far as the patchnotes go, Ballistic Weapons still have unlimited ammo, regardless of what's in the picture.  Alex still hasn't gotten around to updating the patch notes in nearly 2 months - a rather long time, if anything at all has been changed.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 04:48:48 PM by The Soldier »
Logged
Quote from: Trylobot
I am officially an epoch.
Quote from: Thaago
Note: please sacrifice your goats responsibly, look up the proper pronunciation of Alex's name. We wouldn't want some other project receiving mystic power.

Alex

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 23988
    • View Profile
Re: Remove ALL Ammo From the Game IMMEDIATELY
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2015, 05:10:06 PM »

Funny how NOBODY looked at the actual picture and settled for the text alone in that tweet

Look closer in the pic and you realise its normal limited ammo only you have to stop spamming every now and then for it to reload

It doesn't mean you have UNLIMITED ammo if you still have a LIMITED amount of clips...

(It's unlimited, the "max clips" is the maximum number of clips that can be loaded at once.)
Logged

CrashToDesktop

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3876
  • Quartermaster
    • View Profile
Re: Remove ALL Ammo From the Game IMMEDIATELY
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2015, 05:55:11 PM »

(It's unlimited, the "max clips" is the maximum number of clips that can be loaded at once.)
Well, that's pretty interesting to hear.  So you can have a maximum of 1000 rounds in the Vulcan, and spend 4 seconds to add another clip of 200.  Although I almost feel like there needs to be shorter reloads, but with smaller clips - just to get that more AAA-feeling from WWII, shoving down 5-shell clips into quad-mount Bofors every few seconds.

Back on topic - still unlimited ammo. :D
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 05:56:59 PM by The Soldier »
Logged
Quote from: Trylobot
I am officially an epoch.
Quote from: Thaago
Note: please sacrifice your goats responsibly, look up the proper pronunciation of Alex's name. We wouldn't want some other project receiving mystic power.

SafariJohn

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3010
    • View Profile
Re: Remove ALL Ammo From the Game IMMEDIATELY
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2015, 05:41:10 AM »

Funny how NOBODY looked at the actual picture and settled for the text alone in that tweet

Look closer in the pic and you realise its normal limited ammo only you have to stop spamming every now and then for it to reload

It doesn't mean you have UNLIMITED ammo if you still have a LIMITED amount of clips...

(It's unlimited, the "max clips" is the maximum number of clips that can be loaded at once.)

Now that I've looked at that screenshot a bit more (it's only been out how many months?! :P) I think I like how the reload system you have works.

If I've got this right, that test Vulcan has 5 clips of 20, if it fires even a single round, after 4 seconds a clip of 20 rounds will be loaded, bringing it back up to 5 (100). But since it fires at 1200 rpm, it will run out of ammo in 6 seconds (it reloads 1 clip while firing). 2 seconds later it loads another clip and fires all 20 rounds in 1 second. 3 seconds after that another clip, another 1 second of firing, and repeat. I think you end up with a sustained rate of fire of 300 rpm. I think that's how that works.
Logged

ahrenjb

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 225
    • View Profile
Re: Remove ALL Ammo From the Game IMMEDIATELY
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2015, 11:07:07 AM »

I know this is off topic, but I don't really think I like the idea of the clip reload mechanic all that much. Maybe my mind would change if I tried to play with it for a bit, but for some weapons it feels wrong. The vulcan, for instance, would be drawing ammunition off a continuous belt from a magazine in the turret or ship hull. I know that the intention of removing limited ammo was to actually reduce some complexity, but I feel like this mechanic actually increases complexity without adding any fun for the player or opening up complexity to be used elsewhere. But, as I've already mentioned, I'm a proponent of the current ammo system and not a big fan of CR timers. I feel like there are better ways to limit the useful longevity of ships in battle than with a forced timer, and honestly the CR timers haven't actually affected the way I play the game at all. I haven't really run into them limiting me in any way, so it seems like a bloat mechanic that serves no real useful purpose. Of course, this is based on the way I play the game, which favors shorter engagements with repeat encounters if necessary.

Seems to me like peak CR was only introduced to limit frigate soloing of large fleets.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 11:13:10 AM by ahrenjb »
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12118
    • View Profile
Re: Remove ALL Ammo From the Game IMMEDIATELY
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2015, 07:13:22 AM »

Clips for ballistics seem like autopulse laser.  I will need to try it before I pass final judgment.  At least weapons with low ammo now, like Thumper and HMG, might become viable.

Quote
Seems to me like peak CR was only introduced to limit frigate soloing of large fleets.
As someone who totally ignores Leadership until both Combat and Technology are at 10, I build toward one frigate or Medusa flagship that can kill as much as possible, since 20 Logistics cannot support much.  Peak performance is somewhat effective at stopping that for most frigates, requiring two or three that one could do without a timer.  Only when I reach level 50 or higher can I move away from that and roll out strong fleets of my own.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]