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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.65.2a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 325179 times)

TheKillerWolf

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #270 on: December 22, 2014, 02:04:07 AM »

If we have combat timers why would we have things like ammo? 2 mechanics that stand for the exact same thing.
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Canis Lupus

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #271 on: December 22, 2014, 06:12:16 AM »

If we have combat timers why would we have things like ammo? 2 mechanics that stand for the exact same thing.

Ammo does not function as a good combat timer mechanic because it mostly affects ballistic-based ships.

Here's what it does:
  • It impacts the feel of ballistic weapons and differentiates them from energy weapons.
  • There is a psychological component to ammo that grows the more the weapons are used.
  • Ammo is presently an important factor in choosing between some ballistic weapons (e.g. Light Dual Autocannon vs. Railgun, Flak vs. Dual Flak, Hypervelocity vs. Heavy Needler, Heavy Autocannon vs. Heavy Needler, Vulcan Cannon vs. LMG, Gauss vs. Mjolnir, etc.)
  • Mods bring a lot more weapons to the game, and many of those weapons are ammo-restricted.

I think that some of the changes to be introduced in this update are here mainly to simplify and standardize the gaming experience, and not to remove unnecessary, or to improve otherwise broken game mechanics.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 06:14:41 AM by Canis Lupus »
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #272 on: December 22, 2014, 07:01:48 AM »

Quote
and advanced optics is super easy to get and cost very little op..
How?  Advanced Optics requires Applies Physics 7 (high SP cost), a skill I tend to totally ignore (or get 3 at endgame to shield a Cerberus fleet).  The OP cost is not cheap.  The only ships I consider Advanced Optics for is the Wolf and maybe Eagle, and only if I give up missiles (no Annihilators or Swarmers) and do not have Flux Dynamics 10, in which case, all spare points go to more vents.
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TheKillerWolf

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #273 on: December 22, 2014, 10:12:50 PM »

If we have combat timers why would we have things like ammo? 2 mechanics that stand for the exact same thing.

Ammo does not function as a good combat timer mechanic because it mostly affects ballistic-based ships.

Here's what it does:
  • It impacts the feel of ballistic weapons and differentiates them from energy weapons.
  • There is a psychological component to ammo that grows the more the weapons are used.
  • Ammo is presently an important factor in choosing between some ballistic weapons (e.g. Light Dual Autocannon vs. Railgun, Flak vs. Dual Flak, Hypervelocity vs. Heavy Needler, Heavy Autocannon vs. Heavy Needler, Vulcan Cannon vs. LMG, Gauss vs. Mjolnir, etc.)
  • Mods bring a lot more weapons to the game, and many of those weapons are ammo-restricted.

I think that some of the changes to be introduced in this update are here mainly to simplify and standardize the gaming experience, and not to remove unnecessary, or to improve otherwise broken game mechanics.

i think this is fine since its now "How long can my ship maintain firing x weapon"  I can now focus on what makes weapons good and varied.  In all the instances you provided that ammo is important they all have aspects that make them diff and useful. i cannot see a case were i can say 100% i would pick one over the other.  ive seen people throwing around that ammo gives a "feel" because you have some number at the bottom telling you how long you have left for that gun to be working and combat timers do this just as well since if i sit in a void and fire my guns constantly my timer rolls down. the only thing in the game with "unlimited ammo" are cap ships since at the end of the day you WILL run out of combat timer and your guns will fail. balance can now be focused and things like range, damage type, spread, rate of fire, ect, ect.  people say it makes energy weapons and ballistic too much alike what with the flux change but at the end of the day they are will be VERY diff weapons even with this change even just because of ship mountings.
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Linnis

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #274 on: December 22, 2014, 10:28:50 PM »

How?  Advanced Optics requires Applies Physics 7 (high SP cost), a skill I tend to totally ignore (or get 3 at endgame to shield a Cerberus fleet).  The OP cost is not cheap.  The only ships I consider Advanced Optics for is the Wolf and maybe Eagle, and only if I give up missiles (no Annihilators or Swarmers) and do not have Flux Dynamics 10, in which case, all spare points go to more vents.

Well Advanced optics is expensive in that case cause you don't have point in tech anyways, where most of them give you more OP anyways...

When playing full tech as primary skill then for most ships I end up taking a few hullmods that are not optimal because too many OP to spend...
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JT

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #275 on: December 23, 2014, 02:35:19 AM »

I suppose all I'm concerned with is whether all of these changes are getting rolled in on the back end, or whether we'll still have control over them on the front end.  For instance, I hope the ammunition counter hasn't been completely disabled for ballistic weapons -- i.e., if we wanted to, I hope we can go ahead and add it back in, in mod form, for those weapons we want to have ammo.  If it's actually being handed on down from high that 'no, ballistic weapons no longer have ammo no matter what', then I'll be a sad panda. =P

The flux-boost damage is at least 100% doable in mod code, through a scaled damage bonus, so that's not a major loss.
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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #276 on: December 23, 2014, 02:41:34 AM »

@JT: The ammo and range changes are completely modable, you could even implement them right now and try how they feel. I think about everything is. It's just balancing, not new features, after all.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #277 on: December 23, 2014, 05:54:26 AM »

@ Linnis:  I get Technology 7 first, then Combat 10 and Technology 10.  However, I get only Gunnery Implants, +OP skills, Navigation, and maybe Flux Dynamics (mandatory for optimal Hyperion use) out of Technology.  Applied Physics only gives me a tiny increase of flux capacity and hullmods that benefit me only if I build my character around a single ship type or two (e.g., Hardened Shields for Paragon).  My SP is stretched thin at all levels unless I make it to at least about level 55 or so.  Applied Physics is a luxury I cannot afford.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2014, 05:56:18 AM by Megas »
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #278 on: December 23, 2014, 01:24:45 PM »

I suppose all I'm concerned with is whether all of these changes are getting rolled in on the back end, or whether we'll still have control over them on the front end.  For instance, I hope the ammunition counter hasn't been completely disabled for ballistic weapons -- i.e., if we wanted to, I hope we can go ahead and add it back in, in mod form, for those weapons we want to have ammo.  If it's actually being handed on down from high that 'no, ballistic weapons no longer have ammo no matter what', then I'll be a sad panda. =P

The flux-boost damage is at least 100% doable in mod code, through a scaled damage bonus, so that's not a major loss.
Also, Alex is working on a clip based mechanic (Link: https://twitter.com/amosolov/status/545784125484175360 )
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Callabaddie

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #279 on: December 24, 2014, 05:52:17 AM »

>clips

>clips

>clips

Alex, even on spaceboats, they're still magazines, goddamn.

Naval guns load ammunition into the firing chamber from a magazine into the turret itself.

They don't have "clips."
« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 05:53:57 AM by Callabaddie »
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SafariJohn

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #280 on: December 24, 2014, 06:05:26 AM »

>clips

>clips

>clips

Alex, even on spaceboats, they're still magazines, goddamn.

Naval guns load ammunition into the firing chamber from a magazine into the turret itself.

They don't have "clips."

I think the way this works, is that instead of a central magazine, they have an autofac. The autofac produces clips of ammunition, which are then loaded into the individual guns' magazines.
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bills6693

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #281 on: December 24, 2014, 07:17:50 AM »

So.... is Alex going to be uploading an update tomorrow? A Christmas miracle?
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JohnDoe

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #282 on: December 24, 2014, 10:47:59 AM »

So.... is Alex going to be uploading an update tomorrow? A Christmas miracle?
Last I checked, Santa isn't real.
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Canis Lupus

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #283 on: December 24, 2014, 11:31:02 AM »

So.... is Alex going to be uploading an update tomorrow? A Christmas miracle?
Last I checked, Santa isn't real.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Santa was born Saint Nicholas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas in 270 CE and died 343 CE. Jesus resurrected him soon thereafter, and ever since Santa's been living in Norway. Norway feared a Russian attack on Santa and joined NATO in 1949 to protect him http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_NATO. By 1950 the USA had installed anti-air defenses in Svalbard to defend his toy factory against a possible Russian attack and all was calm until NORAD uncovered a secret plot by the Russians to down Santa's slay while he was heading to West Berlin. Since then, NORAD has been tracking Santa with its best radar and satellites http://www.noradsanta.org/ and has prevented numerous Russian intercepts.

If I don't get Starsector 0.65.2a I'll send a letter to Putin to ask him why he scared Santa away this year.
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Linnis

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #284 on: December 24, 2014, 11:42:27 PM »

Wikipedia credible source, Santa real confirmed.
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