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Should debris fields show up on the map tab?

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Author Topic: [0.65.1a] Tradewinds II  (Read 22634 times)

Darloth

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[0.65.1a] Tradewinds II
« on: November 01, 2014, 07:44:06 PM »

Scrapmetal Boogaloo!

So this is a development and eventually release thread for a trading and economy focussed mod which should add a few new features and skills, intended to make non-combat professions more interesting and something you can specialize in, along with enabling other non-combat professions other than trading (most notably scavenging at present).

Right now all it does is makes fleets drop a cloud of debris containing the excess loot if you don't take all the loot after fighting them.  This happens with AI fleets as well, and you can come and scavenge the remnants if you get there quickly enough.  Debris clouds dissipate into the endless void and are too cold to discriminate on sensors after approximately three stellar days.  

I've tested it for about a week or two of campaign time and it certainly functions as intended for that long - source is included (zipped into jar file), do what you will!

Inclusion/Exclusion:
It ought to work on a previous unmodded save as well as a new game, it's supposed to be removable in the same way (though you might get left with a couple of unsightly floating debris fields you're no longer able to interact with if you do, I have not tested it yet), and there aren't any known incompatibilities with faction mods.

Tradewinds II is currently incompatible with Starsector+, as we both modify the same core files.

Known Issues:
  • Crew left in a debris field die. Horribly. You monster. Why?? (Answer: It's a technical limitation with the mechanics of loot cargo instances - I can't successfully track crew, so I just ignore them all and they vanish into the ether. Quite literally so, I suspect.)
  • No fancy progress bar until the debris vanishes.  Less of an issue, more of a nice to have.

DOWNLOAD - v0.3

Change Log:
  • v0.3 - Fixed NPC phantom cargo space and magical logistics fairies soaking up all the loot. Updated to 0.65.1a
  • v0.2 - Fixed conversation endless loop - thanks Sundog.
  • v0.1 - Initial release, almost worked except for bugs.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2014, 03:18:14 AM by Darloth »
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Sundog

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Re: Tradewinds II
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2014, 08:09:00 PM »

Oh, neat! I was curious about what you were working on. Didn't think I'd find out so soon. This could turn out to be really cool  :)

Tartiflette

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Re: Tradewinds II
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2014, 04:45:46 AM »

I have to say I very much appreciate this mod. I wanted to do something a bit similar but I don't have the coding skills required. Maybe it will gives you some new ideas for your mod:

My idea was to make salvaging time consuming: you win a battle, you select what you want to salvage as usual, but it won't get instantly teleported in your cargo. Instead, a cloud of debris is spawned and you have a progress bar to show the salvaging operation going. As the bar fill, you get a steady income of supplies and item, and sometimes a weapon you selected, the larger ones having a greater chance to be picked last. Only if you wait until the end you are guaranteed to get all the loot.

The speed of the salvaging could be proportional to the extra crew you have, and the number of marines, giving you an incentive to bring in extras even if it cost more in daily supplies consumption. Another option could be to suspend CR recovery to accelerate the salvage, though I suspect we don't have the right modding API to do that...

If you didn't picked everything, the remains would drift toward the nearest planet, star, wormhole or disperse after some time, whatever comes first. Of course there would clouds generated by AI battlers too, and other salvagers that can could poach them.

This could remove the need for the very artificial "boost if you loose"... If the victor want some loot, he has to stay in place for a moment. Also, battles in enemy space could be more difficult since you have to stay aware of other fleets while salvaging.

That's pretty much it, I hope it will gives you ideas for your mod, and I hope to see it pan out!
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Nanao-kun

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Re: Tradewinds II
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2014, 10:19:55 AM »

Definitely gonna try this when I get home.
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Darloth

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Re: Tradewinds II
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2014, 01:13:33 PM »

Found out why I almost never see AI fleets actually dropping any wreckage (it was working, but verrrrrry rare) - sometimes their cargoAPI is bugged and reports that it has 1000 capacity so they just take everything, but usually, it's because AI fleets do not track supplies or fuel in the same way, and the way they do track it doesn't take up any 'cargo', plus loot isn't generated as much for them.  I'm going to probably limit them to half their actual cargo capacity in loot and force a full loot gen, which should mean they run out of space more and drop more things.

It also means pirates will get more plunder, and defeating successful combat fleets will generally produce more loot for you the player as well, since their cargo holds will actually be filled with the remnants of all the other fleets they've destroyed over time.

Expect an update in the next few days.
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Darloth

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Re: Tradewinds II
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2014, 02:11:16 PM »

Or expect an update now! That was easier than I thought!

Version 0.3 brings regular scrap clouds from NPC battling, though they don't stay around for very long so you'll need to be quick to take your pick of the previously passed over plunder!

Could someone move this to the Mods forum please, I think it's ready for use - it's proved quite stable in my testing so far. 

There may be a slight performance hit because I've reduced the abstraction applied to NPC autoresolve, and it takes a teeny bit longer each time now.  If anyone notices infrequent juddering with this mod running, please let me know and I will attempt to cheat more heavily (and more importantly, faster) in the autoresolve code.

I have also started a poll, because I would like to know whether people think debris clouds should show up on the Map tab.  At the moment, they do, but I'd like to know other people's opinions.

Finally, I may split this out into a library and a vanilla implementation - that way other people can use my debris code in their own large campaign mods without having to mess about unregistering my various campaign plugins.  Any interest for that?
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CrashToDesktop

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Re: [0.65.1a] Tradewinds II
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2014, 03:04:20 PM »

Oh, interesting mod.  Going to try this out now, gonna love becoming the vulture that roams the sector. :D

I'd make the debris clouds not visible on the tactical map unless you have some high enough character skill on Technology or something.  I'll admit that I've influenced by Okim's view on his new "exploration system" where things won't show up on the map until they've been discovered - it's a good idea and I'd like to keep these debris clouds off the map.
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superhotdogzz

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Re: [0.65.1a] Tradewinds II
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2014, 11:46:32 PM »

THE SCAVENGING  :o
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!
Funny I was thinking about this days back, but now it is almost here ;D
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Morrigi

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Re: [0.65.1a] Tradewinds II
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2014, 01:10:42 PM »

Oh, interesting mod.  Going to try this out now, gonna love becoming the vulture that roams the sector. :D

I'd make the debris clouds not visible on the tactical map unless you have some high enough character skill on Technology or something.  I'll admit that I've influenced by Okim's view on his new "exploration system" where things won't show up on the map until they've been discovered - it's a good idea and I'd like to keep these debris clouds off the map.
It'd make no sense for ships not to have long-range scanners.
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CrashToDesktop

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Re: [0.65.1a] Tradewinds II
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2014, 02:13:12 PM »

It'd make no sense for ships not to have long-range scanners.

It's not the point of a ship not having long-range sensors - it's gameplay.  You'd have to search for these little piles of loot instead of just looking at your minimap and clicking it - right now, it's a lot easier to just go to a system where there's a ton of combat and poof, you'll become richer than ever because you know the exact location of every debris field.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2014, 02:15:24 PM by The Soldier »
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Quote from: Trylobot
I am officially an epoch.
Quote from: Thaago
Note: please sacrifice your goats responsibly, look up the proper pronunciation of Alex's name. We wouldn't want some other project receiving mystic power.

Tartiflette

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Re: [0.65.1a] Tradewinds II
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2014, 03:05:26 PM »

It'd make no sense for ships not to have long-range scanners.
If you want a good example why this is a bat idea, just play X Rebirth with it's loot-long-range-scan-minigame-that-broke-the-game-economy
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Darloth

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Re: [0.65.1a] Tradewinds II
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2014, 03:22:16 PM »

right now, it's a lot easier to just go to a system where there's a ton of combat and poof, you'll become richer than ever because you know the exact location of every debris field.

At the moment this doesn't happen because debris fields have such a short duration - around 3 days, and unless you're in a set of burn 12 frigates that really doesn't actually get you all that far :)

Plus debris is usually the stuff people didn't want... it has to be a major fleet battle with tons of casualties on both sides to drop anything worthwhile.

If the lifetime on the fields ever goes up this might be an issue, so it's worth thinking about.  
« Last Edit: November 07, 2014, 03:58:12 PM by Darloth »
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CrashToDesktop

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Re: [0.65.1a] Tradewinds II
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2014, 05:34:48 PM »

Debris fields still hold a ton of commodities, like Metals and Heavy Machinery, which most stations purchase for a pretty good price.  It IS totally free money, anyways (minus the supply cost to get there and back but that's usually minimal and covered by the supplies picked up).

Anyways, would it be possible to have Debris fields change size depending on how much stuff is in it?  There's already different debris field textures, but telling which ones are the biggest and yield the most would be nice.
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Quote from: Trylobot
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Note: please sacrifice your goats responsibly, look up the proper pronunciation of Alex's name. We wouldn't want some other project receiving mystic power.

TartarusMkII

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Re: [0.65.1a] Tradewinds II
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2014, 08:00:18 PM »

Heya, I just wanted to leave my feedback on this mod!

Of course, I realize it's a new mod, and of course I am impressed with it! Also, I am bad at this game. Simple as that. It's hard for me to get very far.

I spend a lot of time in the 'early game' because I collapse so often, and so my fleet often has a lower burn speed. I am noticing that more and more as I play with Tradewinds II enabled, the more I am just ignoring the icons on the minimap. I have already learned that I am unable to catch the debris field in time , so I don't even bother- that is, unless I am waiting to attack the loser of a fight happening right in front of me.

I am fine with the debris field containing only lowly scraps (your reasoning makes sense), but I did want to mention that I feel like they still don't persist long enough.

Thanks!
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Darloth

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Re: [0.65.1a] Tradewinds II
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2014, 04:32:42 AM »

Making them bigger when they contain more stuff is already on my to-do list, but I don't think they'll be dynamic - that is, they'll spawn at a specific size and stay that way even if partially looted.

I might make them last longer as well if everyone is finding it too fast, or perhaps make bigger fields last longer.  Balance tuning is a work in progress, so please keep giving me feedback like this.

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